Join the TimeGhost Army Today: bit.ly/VTC_02_PI This is a new series for us, how are you all liking it? If you're only just joining us, check out episode one here: ruclips.net/video/VG7BzhtrTIM/видео.html
I Love it.. I suggest doing a similiar deep dive series into Western Companies who played both sides, sometimes just straight $ laundering to setting up shell companies to avoid obvious wartime embargos.. Prescott Bush's Nazi Front Bank , IBM, Ford, Coca-Cola ...there are many.
It's so weird how the Allied governments who stood by while Hitler dismembered Czechoslovakia were disappointed that some guy in robes with no armies failed to stop the Nazis from making war.
What is weird is that they were not disappointed the jesuits had created the far political right and left, the axis powers, the allied powers, invented communism, fascism, in pure hegelian fashion pitted the world into war to dismantle the last traces of the 'ancien regime' and establish a more thoroughly absolute jesuit global tyranny, a glorification of the political intrigues the vatican and its popes had been playing since the bishop of Rome became the pope.And the antichrist of the city that sits on seven hills, that rules over the kings of the earth, will be responsible for the Armageddon, and after Rome is destroyed by the world powers that carried her shortly after the Armageddon, the antichrist will make one last attempt at instigating war, the final world war at the close of this age, gathering the armies of the world against Jesus Christ when the greatest massacre in history will take place and the beast and the antichrist will be cast alive into the lake of fire. That is how big a role Babylon the Great plays in this world. And the Jewish holocaust executed by the nazis is just one of the many Europe had seen since perhaps the destruction of the temple in 70 C.E., including the one which was carried out at the beginning of the first crusade to help finance the war effort. The Jewish holocausts have taken many forms and are of various different scales from individuals to hundreds to thousands to millions in a single event. From accusations of well poisonings--poisoned by secret catholic orders including, in more recent history, the jesuits, who were expelled the last time from Spain amid accusations of poisoning the wells during an outbreak of cholera, sacrifice of catholic children, to expulsions, ghettoes with many humiliating, asphyxiating restrictions and other injustices, or open war with the pillaging, rape, and destruction of property of Jewish communities. The popes invented the ghettoes and insisted on them through the ages. Major Jesuit newspapers---like civilta cattolica---argued with evident hostility against Jews, and many episodes of deliberate antisemitism culminated in the Nazi holocaust; all fascist leaders were catholic, Hitler, Franco, Pavelich, and Tiso--and never excommunicated; the blame was thrown on Germany, another target of the Vatican; the fasces is a roman symbol---used earlier by the jesuits and the vatican, if I remember correctly. The Vatican helped 90% of nazi war criminals escape in what has been called 'the route of the monasteries', hiding them in catholic convents all the way down to Rome and then to genoa provided with fake passports and sent to various countries, allied or axis, including Canada US and Argentina. the Nazis were not just a political party, they were death worshippers and sacrificed humans---traits of esoteric Catholicism long practiced in Vatican black masses. Read history inform yourselves! Read the Bible and compare it with the catholic catechism, see if you find any errors... Never belong to an institution without first knowing what it really is about.
Priests are educated. The Nazis went after anyone with an advanced education in Poland and other occupied lands. People with an education are much more able to cause trouble for an occupying army.
@@jackdoyle7453 The fact is the nazis went after educated people in their occupied countries, yes they also killed union leaders and such, but one of the first things they did in Poland was to round up college professors and kill them.
About 400 000 officer's worth of men. Spread all around the world and specialist infiltrators and fanatically loyal soldiers are available as well. International organization.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Lol, officers. Reminds me of a crusade lead by a goose. Better compare them to NKVD within the Soviet army ranks. Second guessing orders with their morality system and often knowing little to none about combat.
@@Paciat You really are that stupid. Each and every one of them has at least Bachelor's degree or equivalent. Roman-Catholic Church has lots of untapped power in it's disposal which includes military might as well.
@@vksasdgaming9472 😖 Reframe the question to ask ‘how much armament does the Pope have? Answer: the Swiss Guard with swords and halberds. Ooh, scary . . . Not!
This is such a powerful episode. The absolute truth of World War II is sickening. The chemistry of Indy, Astrid and Spartacus is undeniable and makes the information of this miniseries easier to digest (I hope this makes sense). My daughter and I eagerly await each episode as it is a significant learning tool in our homeschool. We will never forget.
Those are some very kind words, Isaac. Heartwarming to know that the watching of our content is something you and your daughter share. We wish you both all the best!
Isaac Herzog was the first Chief Rabbi in Independent Ireland, before he went to Israel. He was a gifted linguist and spoke our native language "Irish" or "Gaeilge". He was a great friend of Ireland and was know as "the Sinn Féin Rabbi". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_HaLevi_Herzog
The Pope and the Catholic Church were in a terribly difficult situation back then, much worse than minor statesmen that could at least take the appearances of pragmatism, detach themselves from the ideological debate and play with armed forces, market and economic resources - like Portugal and Switzerland did. The geographical position of Vatican made everything absolutelly worse, plus, conquered countries like France and poor Poland were mostly catholic with already endangered populations. Because of this, Church's officials had to work in the shadows of diplomatic connections, hideouts, forged documents and cash, which consequently opens debate to how much they actually did against the tyrants. Fortunately the shallow cliché of "Hitler's Pope" is being debunked. Anyone that criticises Pope Pius XII for not "standing out and shout" is merely showing a false moral superiority, an "i'll sacrifice everyone to show how better i am". It's very easy to point accusatory fingers when you're not in 1939.
Der Alte This is not applying modern moral judgements to neandethals. This is one to two generations removed. Any moral judgements about the church are well founded, and should be taken seriously.
@@WorldWarTwo I don't think he's making the neanderthal arguement, I think he's saying that here in 2022 we are safe to speak out against Nazism, Bolshevism and crimes against humanity that took place in WW2 without major threat of reprisal.
@@WorldWarTwo I don't think that's how they intended that statement. They meant "you wouldn't know truly, you weren't there". Just like no one can understand the horror of the concentration camps or TRUE war unless they've lived it. It's easy to sit down, watch a screen, read a document with the HINDSIGHT we have NOW and judge. We shouldn't. We should make sound agreement of what happened didn't serve the greater good as a result; to not repeat the action. It's similar to the "but, but, but they were in the German Army/Military!" Yeah. Lol They were CONSCRIPTED and forced to be indoctrinated in Nazi schools. I mean...they were called "Hitlers Youth" for Christ's sake. Many Americans didn't have a choice serving for their country either and what if we had ended up on the wrong side of things? We got lucky. And we had SEGREGATED UNITS still. We had our own prejudices out for display. No one is innocent in these atrocities. I truly cannot say if there was one solitary country that didn't contribute to the political climate of those days. Whether it was well-intentioned or not, hard to know. 🤷♀️ Hindsight is 20/20. Easy for us to say "well, I'd do it differently. " lol OK, bro. If we end up in WW3 I'm gonna hold anyone to it who says that. Because it's very different to speak or act when lives are at risk. Same reason the Allies didn't bomb auschwitz. They didn't want to hurt more people. Would it have saved some? Maybe. But, we'll never know.
Thank you very much for this series. As I already mentioned underneath your previous Video: I always wondered what role the pope and the vatican played in the war.
Thanks @Thanos 6.0 . This series has been in the works for a while so it's great that people are actually curious about the subject, and enjoying the videos!
Here is the role they played: The Vatican signed concordats with three dictators, Mussolini, Hitler and Franco in Spain. The Vatican was rewarded with money from Germany & Austria with all Catholics being taxed 10% from their salaries with the proceeds going to Rome. The Catholic Youth Organization (CYO) in Germany became the Hitler Youth. The Pope also got 10 million lira from Mussolini for the Vatican's support. No Catholics would have been persecuted if the Pope opened his mouth about the genocide. The few priests that did open their mouths and were killed was NOTHING compared to 6 MILLION Jews. Protestant Evangelical clergy were in the same boat & many of them that spoke up were also killed. Moreover, Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels & EVERY concentration camp commander was a baptized Roman Catholic. Most of the German & Austrian people WERE Roman Catholic. It was also the RC Church that provided all of the documentation & birth certificates to the government to prove you were a Jew or not. This helped in the arrests, genocide and selecting members of the SS. The pope could have forbidden the churches from turning over this information to the Nazis. A great book to read is HITLER'S POPE - The Secret History of Pius XII by John Cornwell.
@@WorldWarTwo G'day, Six years as a lapsed Presbyterian at a couple of Australian Catholic Boarding Schools, in the 1970s ; left me feeling that the entire Catholic Church looks like a Cat scratching on a Linoleum Floor, trying in vain to cover over the steaming Turd they laid on top of all their own espoused Faith in the Godtheory of Thou Shalt Not Kill..., regards the Church blessing Waaauugh(!) and all who take part therein, and all who support War, and all who make it possible for Warfare to occur upon the Earth... (and Waaauugh{!} Fare equals Eating War...). My Teachers claimed Papal Neutrality meant that "Pius XII had no choice, because there were Catholics on all sides of the Waaauugh(!)". To this day, the Pope sleeps behind Armed Guards every night...(!). Behavioural Analysis of that one single FACT yields the accurate assessment and illustration of the point - that the Pope BEHAVES as if he has ZERO actual FAITH in his Creator Godtheory's ability to keep him safe, from all Evil ; in real life. And, because the Pope is seen to be a fearfully faithless man of great wealth and "power", therefore thus and because - in the real world the Pope relies on Paid Killers, bearing Death Machines, to keep him safe while he sleeps. Apparently, clearly, the Pope is a practising Behavioural Atheist..., regardless of all the Bling and Marketing Jism (!). So it is probably not surprising that the Vatican sanctioned, and continues to sanction..., Communicant Catholics enlisting to obey "Orders" to kill Humans, over differences of opinion concerning Politics and Policy. If any of the "Faithful" actually relied on their Godtheory to keep them safe, then none of them would feel any "need" to be "armed" (to deal with whatever they consider their Godtheory too powerless to be able to cope with....). So, institutionalised hypocrisy, underlying blasphemy and apostasy...; all because of the Church's having peddled "Got Mit Uns...!" effect in every Nation wherein their Priests and Nuns and Brothers were peddling Godtheory as an integral part of Nationalism and Patriotism. Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
I’m not a RC, but the Pope was in an impossible situation. The Nazis had determined to wage a war of extermination on the Jews, Roma, and the Slavic populations. Does anyone really think that such monsters would have been dissuaded by a few speeches by the Pope?
History is never black and white. Even the Pope who was supposed to be the part of good had dark sides throughout his papacy. The major or primary one I would simply deduce as fear. I don't consider him an evil man, or a hateful man, but simply a man whose fear of going far enough caused great tragedy. On the other hand, he was corageous enough to act to also reduced tragedy as much as he could or dared. Never forget.
Very similar things took place in Austria after the Anschluss as well. The Cardinal there Theodor Innitzer initially and semi-reluctantly supported the German annexation, but after extensive discussions with Pius and the Vatican he eventually began to voice discontent with the Nazis. He however, had to tread much like Pius did as there were many cases of Nazi attacks on churches and Catholics throughout Austria. The story of Franz Jagerstatter is also a famous case of a Catholic refusing to fight for the Nazis and being killed as a result.
I (intern) must echo Cary Black's sentiment, and not just because of anachronism. The social influence of the papacy cannot be overstated. Proclaiming some kind of ambiguity about Papal leadership or moral authority is to deny the very real position that the Vatican holds in the world, and held at the time.
I agree with you fully. I love how so many modern, spoiled people who have next to ZERO responsibilities in life love to judge historical leaders who had perhaps more responsibilities that they wanted. Especially when one only needs to read more than a few hours to understand there is just as much propaganda as there is proof of the Pope's actions. Seeing how easily most young adults feign at being triggered over people who disagree with them, yet love to judge how other's should have done more is golden irony....
Pius XII's plight feels similar to that of Prince Paul in Yugoslavia. Surrounded by enemies, balancing upon a treacherous beam... what can a man do in such hell? I think for the Pope one should expect more idealism than pragmatism, but regardless, this has been an interesting series to watch so far.
@@caryblack5985 The pope can only do so much and he is right - condemnations which in that point will not change anything, will just make everything worse.
Tito organized a resistance and fighted in Yugoslavia while Prince Paul did nothing, there is always something to be done if you are willing to risk it, but many people in position of powers want to continue with their lives without the risk to fight evil.
What about the true story of the Vatican Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty, dubbed The Scarlet Pimpernel of the Vatican? According to Wikipedia, Monsignor O'Flaherty is credited with saving 6,500 allied soldiers & Jews; and this with the knowledge & support of the Pope.
The Catholic Church is a modern-equivalent of the HRE, except its way poorer, cant declare wars, and is dependent on Italy allowing its existence. The dioceses act so differently from one another that there are cliques within the Church. The pope does not even have the power to replace still-serving bishops and cardinals, while he can pressure them to resign or excommunicate him directly, he has no authority to actually depose one let-alone appoint someone. Also the papacy is in the same position as the UK's royalty is - they both have to tread carefully when dealing with its internal politics or else they question on how much power the pope actually has will come back up again.
@@thomasridley8675 It seldom did. How many times did kings in the Middle Ages try to place their own pontiff on the seat of Peter? I can think of a German Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV, French King Philippe IV and Napoleon to name three. How often did monarchs meddle in the election or affairs of popes? Numerous times since the foundation of the Church. In fact it is probably a rarer case where monarchs were actually cowed by Popes, Henry II being one famous example.
A key to understanding Pius' approach is what happened in the Netherlands in 1942. When the Dutch Catholic bishops protested explicitly against the deportation of Jews, the Nazis accelerated their roundup, and extended it to Catholics with Jewish ancestry. The proportion of Dutch Jews rounded up was the highest in any western country, 79%. Thus Pius saw that more explicit protests made the situation worse for those who were being persecuted. So official Catholic efforts focused more on saving individuals. According to the Jewish historian Pinchas Lapide, official Church efforts led to the lives of 860,000 Jews being saved over the course of the war. For example, in Hungary, 80,000 false baptismal certificates were issued to Jews. In the city of Rome itself, 7,000 Jewish lives were saved. I think that Pius' course of action was just about right. Although many desired more explicit condemnations, he had a more accurate picture of the situation than those who desired such statements. Certainly, immediately after the war, Jewish praise for Pius was great, coming from people like Golda Meir and the Chief Rabbi of Israel. The Chief Rabbi of Rome went so far as to become a Catholic and take Eugenio as his Christian name, that is, Pius' own Christian name.
The experience of the Dutch Catholic bishops really is essential for understanding Pius XII's actions later in the war: it really did backfire spectacularly. Does it justify them at every point? I think it at least is an occasion for caution in building any indictment of Pius XII.
The experience of the Dutch bisshops only served to whitewash the behaviour and inaction of the catholic church. And apearently it worked: 70 years later at least 2 RUclips viewers fell for it. 1) catholocism was only a factor in 2 provinces. The rest of the country was protestant and neither the Germans nor the Dutch could care less about what any bisshop was saying. 2) the low survival rate of Jews in the Netherlands and the timing of their mass deportation is a mix of factors. Any position held or action (not) taken by the Dutch bisshops doesnt even register in that mix. For an institution that claims to have the moral highground on everything, and that pretends to be willing to sacrifice themselves to protect the innocent they should have been a loud, unmutable voice from day one till the last regardless of the consequence. I hope we can at least agree that they weren't that in any way. Instead, helping Nazi's escape to South America after the war was more their thing.
@@samvanriel6168 If you're determined to hate the Catholic Church, I can't stop you. But perhaps you just might stop to consider the tens of thousands of Jews kept in hiding in Church properties all over Europe, and what might have happened to them had Pius XII decided to go all Anathema Sit on the Nazis.
@@richardmalcolm1457 not really... they've done good things too, and it wasnt my point. The WW2 debacle just really wasnt an example of that. And the analysis that was made in both your comments regarding the impact of the Dutch bisshops' statements/behaviour remains wrong in many ways. I suggest reading up on the specific circumstances surrounding the holocaust in The Netherlands. Then you will find the original argument made not much sense. As you can only subscribe my comment as hating the church, i have the same feeling: the argument you made seems to me only possible if one has a positive bias towards it.
And to prove my stance isnt necesarily anti religion: many protestant ministers behaved like heroes. The difference? No churce leader telling them not to. And believe me: im no fan of protestantisme.
always facinating and reassuring when TG research shows the impact of national propaganda on objective historical narratives... ie... analysis this rich doesn't happen often, anywhere, many thanks
@@jackdoyle7453 Cornwall's works desperately want to paint Pope Pius as antiemetic. In every turn he finds a way to make it look like Pope Pius was happy that Htler became Chancellor. Hes putting a lot of words into a muffled person.
@@jackdoyle7453 I encourage you to read Pius XII and the Second World War by Pierre Blet which came out at the same time as John's book and it's largely sourced from the Vatican Archives
He repeatedly and loudly criticised the Nazis until it became clear they only responded with increasing ferocity persecuting Catholics and Jews alike. In 39 he altered his strategy to be non confrontational on the surface but orchestrated a vast underground Catholic resistance that saved nearly a million Jews. His clandestine network also plotted several assassination attempts on Hitler who had met the strict theological conditions to justify such extreme action. More than this, the Allied powers begged P12 not to bring attention to the holocaust as it could backfire by sparking public comparisons between Nazi and Soviet atrocities that humiliate the Soviets and break up the alliance, thus letting the Nazis win. P12 even housed Jews in his own residence while Rome was under occupation! What more could you possibly want, given the circumstances? Oh wait, i know! You want any excuse to denounce a Church you feel good about hating.
I appreciate the insight at the end of this episode. I'm cautious of labelling people like Pius XII Nazi sympathizers. My grandmother and her mother were saved by the family of the so-called "Nazi" Lutheran bishop of Oslo (called "nazibiskopen" by Afternposten). In reality this man took great risk to his own position by publicly pleading for Norwegian Jews in the cathedral and on the radio, and even risked his own family by harboring a Jewish woman and child at his home amid mass deportations. To emphasize the risk: my great-grandfather was deported alongside a Catholic priest who had been vocal against the persecution of Jews - and both of them perished in concentration camps within a few months. The bishop received a heavy sentence for treason after the war, despite the efforts of the Jewish community, while countless actual sympathizers and criminals (members of the NS, volunteers to the Wehrmacht and the SS and even the murderers of the Feldmann couple) went unpunished. The pope may not have been a great Catholic or a brave man, but he wasn't a Nazi-sympathizer.
Are you referring to Eivind Josef Berggrav, bishop of Oslo? His Wikipedia biography describes him as famous in wartime Norway for his anti-Nazi stance, his arrest by the Germans in 1942, being on the cover of Time magazine in the Christmas edition of 1944, and awarded the Medal of Freedom by President Truman.
One could understand his silence when the Vatican was still surrounded by fascist Italy, and later by the Germans after they took over. The outcome of the war was unclear at the time, and any public statements by the Vatican could have made things difficult for Catholics in the new world order, without really achieving anything. What baffles me is that he maintained his silence even when it was clear that the Allies and Soviets were going to win. Was it just out of habit or something?
@@jirkazalabak1514 An animal is most dangerous once you got it wounded and cornerd. Its hard to know what could have happend, the Nazis we're still killing "traitors" and such right up till the end. Plus the werewolfunits (even though largly unreal) we're feared by everyone, so maybe he was afraid of Terror Attacks?
@@derwolf3006 He was the Pope, living deep in Allied territory, and guarded by his own personal bodyguard. I really don´t think he was afraid for his own life, or for the safety of the Vatican at that point.
He had the title "Vicar of Christ". But is that what Jesus would have done, keep His mouth shut while His brothers were being murdered? You should read HITLER'S POPE - The Secret History of Pius XII by John Cornwell.
It wasn't. There were significant inaccuracies in it and the omission of important pieces of informatiion. They cited Rolf Hochhuth as one of their sources. He was successfully sued for defamation.
I have done lots of newspaper research on Pope Pius XII and have found that he was more vocal than others usually say he was, including this video, or at least what it appears to be saying. I have found newspapers articles that talk about things he said on numerous occasions throughout the war, especially at the beginning of the war.
Over the decades the clear and present thread of anti-Catholism has run deep. I commend people for wanting (at least at a shallow level) to learn history. However, many who have spent time educating themselves on a specific & specialized subject have come to understand this: the more you know, the more you learn you don't know. Most sure-fire commenters here are nearly displaying a lack of any honest learning. Not a single person, not even Sparty, has the capacity to fully comprehend the reasons behind the decisions of world leaders from the past. One can only assume the words written in history books are honest, unbiased, and who’s sources themselves were not slanted. Those who've studied governments know damn well once one conflict ends, the attention goes right next one, ie undermining a world religion within one’s boarders that may or may not choose to follow a religious leader over their own countries elected leader. And most humans have zero knowledge of that clear and present anti-Catholism coming from Govmnt', institutions, academics, major web companies, and many a layman alike.
I wrote a history paper on this in the 1970's and how the Church made a choice between being overtly anti-Nazi and pro-Jew or 'stay out of the political conflict'. Millions of Catholics might have joined the Jews as victims in the Holocaust. This was a measured decision to protect Catholics as the first priority. I am glad I was not faced with such a decision. Thinking of my paper now I still think the Church could have done more but recognized the grim realities of the Nazis. Ghandi said he knew his protest had a chance against the British that followed the rules of law. He admitted if the Nazis had controlled the Government he would never have been successful but jailed and killed.
Great video. I hope that you make one special on the Angel of Budapest when the time comes. That was the nickname of the Spanish ambassador to Hungary (named Ángel), who used his position to save Jews by getting them Spanish passports and transit papers out of Nazi-occupied territory. He managed to save thousands of lifes, despite lacking support from his government (as at this point the Spanish dictatorship, though not specially anti-semitic, wasn't going to risk their relations with Germany in order to save Jews). He also issued a manifesto in 1944 condemning publicly the Holocaust, document that was signed by the neutral ambassadors that remained in Hungary.
I don't envy the position he found himself in. Being located in Italy, the Nazis primary ally, probably didn't help make it easy or perhaps possible to speak out against any actions the Axis made in any satisfactory way. And even if he did, what was to stop him from dying under "mysterious circumstances" and replaced by someone who was more sympathetic to the Axis?
There were plans to occupy the Vatican State on the pretext of "security" if the Pope became troublesome enough. I think it's mentioned in the TV movie "The Scarlet and the Black" with Gregory Peck as Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty and Christopher Plummer as Obersturmbannfuhrer Herbert Kappler.
@@caryblack5985 yes quietly saving 1.5 million jews in silence vs moral grandstanding and allowing it's church usurped and gutted in German occupied territory. Before you go off saying 40% of Germans were Catholic may I remind you Napolean was not deposed for imprisoning the Pope in 95% catholic nation and they already knocked the teeth out of the Lutherans they only needed an excuse across the board.
As a devout Catholic, this is always hard, but also I’m glad you guys show the real history. It wasn’t so much that Pius was a Hitlerite, but a diplomat who maybe was at times too diplomatic. I do think in general he was a good man but also a pragmatist to the point that he didn’t want to hurt anyone. I won’t say it’s wrong but I can see how that kind of person isn’t well liked in a situation that’s one of the closest we see to black and white.
Pius was a good catholic but catholics were split,british catholics fought against him. Catholics in Europe resisted him sounds like a lack of leadership by the pope due to his understandable dilemma
These guys sow the real history??? You seem easily manipulated. A lot of Catholic hate in the comments here, this video got some facts wrong. But don't listen to me, Even Albert Einstein would think this video is BS. In 1940 Time magazine quoted Einstein praising the Catholic Church for its role in opposing the Nazis: "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."
A lot of Catholic hate in the comments here, this video got some facts wrong. But don't listen to me, Even Albert Einstein would think this video is BS. In 1940 Time magazine quoted Einstein praising the Catholic Church for its role in opposing the Nazis: "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."
Even though Sparty has the difficult job of telling the story of war against humanity - I could listen to him for hours. And this is a great topic and I do have the feeling this miniseries will touch it as deep as possible but still only superficial. Great work!
The term "Hitler's Pope" came from the1963 play "The Deputy" by Rolf Hochhuth, and most of the charges one still hears against Pius XII derive from it.. Hochhuth, though a West German citizen, was in fact an East German agent reporting to the Stasi, and his play was commissioned (reportedly by the Kremlin) as an exercise in propaganda designed to discredit the Papacy, and especially the newly-elected John XXIII. It was, sadly, highly effective. Ironically, Hochhuth himself was virulently anti-Semitic.
that's a expected option from communist, they fighted against nazis and condemned it knowing the risk of the concentration camps while the pope maintained silence because they didn't want to risk anything to evil.
@@danielsan901998 The communists joined the Nazis and offered them all possible means for their triumph against the Western allies, disgusting and pathetic your attempt to put the blame on your dirty ideology and his direct collaboration with the national socialists, Pope Pius XII did more for the good of the people than your killer tyranny led by an anti-Semitic.
I understand and somewhat sympathize with the dilemma Pius found himself in, but there must be a time when you stand up and say "No, this is wrong." His inaction, designed to limit the damage, is the same appeasement used to try to get Hitler to not go to war in the first place. A doomed effort that, in all likelihood, added to the total body count. Pius had no clear way of measuring the effects of his choices, even in hindsight, which is why morality and principle should have guided his actions. At least then the weight bearing down on the fascist governments of Europe would have been even greater.
Yeah Catholics had zero problem declaring crusades, or burning people alive over theological minutae. But when millions are being persecuted, gassed and cremated in ovens they remained silent. That is the legacy of Pius in WWII.
Well, considering the church got thrashed around for doing things like that later on, it's no wonder they were hesitant to get more involved with the war.
@@flavorgod lol. This is just your rebuttal to everyone who criticizes the Catholic Church isn't it? You purposefully missed the point my comment was making. For example you have Catholics calling abortion a genocide but when it comes to the actual genocide of the Holocaust the behavior of the church was ambivalent at best. Catholicism is an obvious failed moral system and that's ignoring the delusional underpinning of the mythology itself
I feel there a few things that have lead to some people’s opinion of this pope, the main one is that some people cannot fathom how the world can fall into such darkness randomly so they want to blame. Another is that the atrocities committed against Catholics is not made commonly known so people can take advantage of that to try to make the church look bad. They criticized him, and in some ways fairly, that him simply not publicly condemning what was happening but I propose a question: what good would making statements do? At the time we were dealing with predominantly atheist countries and while the Balkans were predominately christian the bad blood between the peoples had gone on for so long they would come up with whatever excuse they could despite what someone in Rome would say.
One need only to look at how the Balkans exploded into an orgy of death and destruction again in the 90s, to question whether anyone can have any influence over an area with animosities that seem to run centuries deep and are never forgotten or forgiven. Just how Tito managed to hold Yugoslavia together for as long as he did given the diverse ethnic backgrounds and animosities, must be viewed as unique. No doubt some form of secret police were involved in controlling the various factions.
What would it do? One simply has to look at La Cristiada in Mexico to see what the Papacy can do when it is willing to support a cause even if in a hands off way. Imagine if at the same tike in Poland during the Warsaw uprising devoted Catholics in Austria and Bavaria rose up in little rebellions. Mussolini's powerbase would crumble. And imagine if he were to actually assault or kill the pope? Then Pius would likely become a martyr fir catholics around the world. Outrage turning into a crusade of the faithful against the enemy, fascism.
If the pope is to be a genuine MORAL leader and inspiration to catholucs and other people he must take a moral ground and publicly issue proclamations explicitely naming who is doing what to whom, be it Nazzis, Soviets, Japanese, or the allies. If he is just a dipolmat and a leader concernedcin real politic than his actions are more undestanble, if no less odious. But then he has no right to claim to be a moral beacon to humanity
The catholic church condemned fascists, nazis and communists in 3 different encyclicals of the 1930s with no discernible improvement in their behaviour. The public protest of the deportation of Dutch Jews by Archbishop de Jong of Utrecht was ineffective in saving the lives of Jews.
This episode was painful to watch, yet needed to be done. It was a balanced look at Pius XII and his walking the tightrope of diplomacy. As a Roman Catholic, this is an episode that I appreciate and will recommend to others. Never Forget!
With later wisdom and later acknowledge is easier to make decisions. The Pope was a moral and religious authority, in non way he could have stopped Hitler and Stalin for perpetrating their atrocities and war crimes. Genocides by Hitler and Stalin were not made public. The situation was without alternative, with keeping silent the Pope would have appeared accomplice, if he would have spoken against, there was a risk of aggravation of situation. Then the allies were warned and aware of genocides, they had the firepower to intervene and what have they done to impede the Holocaust? Not to mention that allies included communist Russia and still today we don't know what communism is.
The Vatican Apostolic Archives opened Pius XII's era to researchers in 2020, but just a little later they had to be shut down due to COVID-19 closing *everything*. Only recently have researchers, to my knowledge, been let back in.
"The war is lost, we need to start protecting the Jews so we can say we tried" Monsignor Montini (Paul VI) 1943 letter to Nunzio in Bulgaria Angelo Roncalli (John XXIII) (Full exchange cited in Goldhagen "A moral reckoning")
That ignores the fact that Pius XII was trying to get Jews out of Germany immediately after Kristallnacht to save them. That was just a few months before he became the pope. Funny how over 30 countries who refused to take Jews in after the Evian conference in 1938 all get a free pass. Only the Dominican Republic took Jews in.
Great stuff, as usual! But a little bit of linguistic nitpicking: the S in Jozef Tiso's last name should be pronounced as S in Spartacus, not as Z in e.g. Zoe.
Pius XII always seemed more comfortable in the role of diplomat than of priest. His failure to take a stronger, more vocal stand against the Nazis was a moral failing of the first order. Perhaps if the Vatican had not been located in the middle of the Axis empire, he would have acted boldly and decisively, but I suspect not. I do not think it was in his nature. From a purely pragmatic point of view, there was nothing he could do to prevent the war or stop the genocide. He likely feared if he did more he risked the destruction of the Vatican and the treatment of all Catholics as Jews. While I do not think the Nazis would have acted so rashly, it is conceivable they would have used more subtle approaches to undermine the Church. Perhaps it would have been more honorable and in keeping with the example of Christ for Pius to have taken a more vocal and forceful stance, but I can't help thinking he held a long-term view that the Vatican must survive the war in order to challenge the continuing threat of Communism. Perhaps this is rationalization. Certainly Stalin did not fear the power of the faith, or as he supposedly once scoffed, how many divisions has the Pope? Such is the thinking of all tyrants.
Thoughtful comment. It is disturbing however to see how strongly he opposed Communism but was silent against Fascism and Nazism. Many Germans were Catholic and it is unlikely they would start to persecute a large portion of their citizens when they needed every able bodied men for their war.
treatment of all Catholics as Jews? i dont think so. Italy was like 90% catholic and germany was like 40%. i think he was more concerned with Red Russia and afraid of Mussolini ordering him dead.
@@caryblack5985 I agree, and that is why I think the Nazis would have tried subtler tactics to control/eliminate him or to reduce the influence of the Papal state. Plus it would have turned Italy against Germany that much sooner. After the war he no longer had to fear Nazi wrath so he was free to attack the Soviets, something he refrained from doing during the war.
@@wagnercarvalho1854 I agree, but I'm talking about the Pope's perception of the potential threat. See my previous response to this question. Hitler was already killing priests and sending Catholics to concentration camps or a select basis in other countries.
Nah I'm pretty sure the Nazis would have just completely destroyed the church if he had spoken out decisively and stuff. He probably saved more people by being officially neutral. It should be noted though that he did a lot of stuff behind the scenes including helping the German resistance.
Let me ask all the haters out there what did you want Pius to do? He had no army. Yeah, we know now that mini mini mini Allied personnel and Jews were saved by the Vatican.
You need to consider not only the Pope, what he said and not said, but the Church as a whole to understand the contribution of the Catholic Church to the struggle against the nazi pagans.
Nazis are no pagans and their antisemitism is firmly rooted in centuries of european christian antisemitism, not to mention the genocides of of other christians prior to the nazis with full support of the church. "Gott mit uns" is a slogan of the Nazis.
@@comdo831 So you really convinced yourself, that millions of christian germans suddely became pagans in 33 and then by a miracle they became christians again in 45? Ok...
Wouldn't it have been better to wait as Pius Xiis archives were jest released around June 1 , 2022. Maybe some critical scholarly research could add more info.
A book has already been published by a professor that has researched the Archives (which were released in 2020 not 2022) it is by David Kertzer The Pope At War.
@@caryblack5985 kertzer just published a book June 13, 2022 which details previously unknown back channel directly to Hitler through Hesse. I'm just saying wait until dust settles on the new book, and the usual counter and pro arguments take place. It takes a while to sort through claims and counter claims .
@KJVNEWS Things are of course dire for Europe's Jews, but what aid they are receiving, and what hope they do have for liberation, is mostly dependent on the goodwill of foreign governments. Things can always get worse if that goodwill wanes.
This interesting for me as my grandfather, Dr Franz Kapp worked with the church to remove non arynas in the church employment from the NAZI imprisonment, sadly I lack any concrete details and my grandparents are dead
I watch you guys every time you release a new video. I love everything you do but I have one complaint. The clock behind you hasn’t moved at all during this entire video. Fix that and you will be practically flawless. Never forget!
Two episodes down, two more to go. Not a Christian or Catholic by religion (free thinker here), but so far it has been kind of interesting to see the Vatican's role during the war.
It would be interesting to also see the analysis of what the Catholic Church as a whole was doing, not just the leadership. For instance, it is no secret that much of the Protestant clergy in the Third Reich was on Hitler´s side, so it would be interesting to see the Catholic side of this.
@@jirkazalabak1514 Well two prominent clergy you should look up are Clemens August Graf von Galen aka "The Lion of Munster" and Monsignor Hugh O'flaherty aka "The Scarlet Pimparnel of the Vatican". And I'm pretty sure most Protestant clergy in Germany weren't that hot on the Nazi's either...
You’re not free thinker, you are just another one that believes superior to other’s for his supposedly “free thinking”, you can watch what free thinker’s truly are looking at Stalin, Mao and all other’s form of tyranny that came from people like you.
After watching this, I have a more balanced view of the Pope. He couldn't even control a priest, and had he officially condemmed the holocaust - then Germans would've imprisoned him. Thank you.
Never forget to watch a WAH episode until just before bedtime... Opps. This one was less graphic, in it's way, but hugely depressing. Reminds me of the diplomatic speak of today too. I wonder what the future John Paul II was thinking in Poland...
I have to ask myself, would I have done anything different if I were in his position, in the face of that seemingly overwhelming evil? the damage was done, and the go ahead was given when the world stood by as Czechoslovakia was sacrificed on the pyre of "peace in our time", or earlier in Spain. all the what ifs, if you lined them up, would stretch around the globe
Eugenio Pacelli sounds like he was truly the wrong man, at the wrong time, in the wrong place. He was a diplomat, a conciliator at heart & a lamb, when the job during World War II called for a lion. Contrast this with Karol Wojtyla, who never backed down as Pope John Paul II, confronting Communism, antisemism and prejudice, and never pulled punches. Whether you agreed or disagreed with him, you knew where he stood. The same couldn't be said of Pius XII, who clearly lacked the guts to take on the Nazis and their war against humanity. I am waiting to see the final two episodes and to see if you address Vatican assistance given to Catholic Nazis who fled justice.
@@roseandsword. It was war and several individuals were fearful for their lives. In these situations, some people are ready to throw other people under the bus for survival. Not here to judge them because we’ve never been on their shoes.
Another excellent video on a controversial subject. I suggest reading "The Myth of Hitler's Pope".by Rabbi Dalen. I found it very objective and are of the impossible situation the Vatican found it self in.
I find it quite ironic that the newly chosen leader of a tiny country located in the middle of another one that is clearly violent is seen as a negative person because he was silent. Yet when the whole of Europe was silent during Czechoslovakia it's apparently ok. He is said to have made some fake gestures yet when France and Great Britain signed an alliance with Poland aand all they did was print some leaflets and an empty gesture of declaring war was it okay? We have weird standards here.
far from a hands-off approach, maybe words-off would characterise it better. Where words would inadvertently cause greater suffering, he chose to let actions speak for him. History has redeemed him completely and exonerated in the eyes of everyone but the staunchest anti-catholics.
He was a moral coward. He could rationalise his actions however he wanted, but the fact was that he didn't speak out because he feared the Vatican losing influence, ironically, considering that he was surrendering influence by not speaking out. He effectively continued the policy of appeasement into the actual war, by which time it was completely irrelevant.
@@lsq7833 yeah, obviously. I'm not really sure how you managed to read my post as a defence of the guy. Pius XII was utterly craven, putting short sighted, and ultimately irrelevant political concerns over moral and humanitarian ones.
@@wh8787 Your ignorance and bad faith, only shows the lack of accepting the evidence when it is presented to him, there is nothing more pathetic than someone who judges the comfort of home in the face of a situation of great vulnerability, you are disgusting, people like you are nothing more than ill-intentioned.
Is difficult to imagine Christian devote people in the resitantance, or Christian devote civilians helping jews or others to avoid extermination, risking his lifes and families, against this evil. People that know that being killing by the Nazis is better than corrupt their values. May be they need "The moral and values support" from The Pope, their Leader, more than his neutrality........
well more like trading that moral grandstanding for not getting politically hunted down and killing over 1 million more people both Jews and Christians show prudence. I'm genuinely curious when Napoleon didn't get pushback for imprisoning the pope why would the fascists?
Great video! Despite what you say, I believe, based on a biography that I read around the year 2000, Pius XIi will always be remembered as “Hitler’s Pope”. His morality was “squishy” when it came to protecting Jews. He may have saved many, but he was so worried about Nazi revenge that he compromised his morality. God will ultimately judge his salvation and his legacy. We need to compare Pius XII’s legacy with Dietrich Bonhoeffer! The latter is a Saint!
The picture at 15:33 is amazing. On the right hand side, we have the gleeful persecutors, going from the positively satanic face of the man in the background to foolish collaboratims on the closer faces. On the left-hand side, we have a very dubious expression on the face in the foreground. Behind him stands another man with what could be a very forced, painful smile - or a gleeful laugh. I feel this photograph is a piece for art.
Indeed, this is all my interpretation, regarding it neutrally as a work of art. I am not judge and jury, and am not saying I have any idea of who is guilty.
I think he was a coward; however, to cut the pope some slack, I don’t know if a more aggressive stance would have helped. At least he would have gone down fighting as so many brave souls did.
It was a long time ago, but I think that Golda Meir planted a Grove of trees in honor of Eugenio Paccelli, Pius 12th. Not only did the Cheif Rabbi of Rome become A Baptized Catholic & took the Baptismal name Eugenio in honor of Pope Pius 12th, Eugenio Paccelli.
You forgot to mention that Pius the 12th also secretly hid a number of Jews in the Vatican untli the end of the war (you can fact check this). He was in fact powerless and could not do much to stop the atrocities out of fear of reprisal, but behind the scenes he was indeed helping as much as he could. I think your episode is missing this particular and it should have been mentioned. It's easy to judge and point fingers at the Vatican but the truth is more complicated than that and I don't think other popes could have acted so much differently. Especially towards the end of the war when Nazi's were also committing atrocities against the Italian population, he felt that his actions could have potentially brought even more death as a consequence. He was indeed in a tricky situtation
We didn't forget to mention but rather chose not to because it wasn't appropriate for our real-time format. But as you'll notice, at the end we listed several instances where he took active steps to save Jews and alluded to several more later in the war. You can also watch the next two episodes of the series to see us talk about stuff he did behind the scenes.
I feel like the Pope decided to follow the advice of Aaron Burr, just like he was willing to Wait for it, to talk less, smile more, don't let them know what you're against or what you're for.
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This is a new series for us, how are you all liking it? If you're only just joining us, check out episode one here: ruclips.net/video/VG7BzhtrTIM/видео.html
It is important to dive into all aspects of the War to fully understand it. The actions of the Papacy are part of that picture. Great series!
Thanks @Guillaume Deschamps!
It's really interesting and well put together. Thanks!
I Love it.. I suggest doing a similiar deep dive series into Western Companies who played both sides, sometimes just straight $ laundering to setting up shell companies to avoid obvious wartime embargos.. Prescott Bush's Nazi Front Bank , IBM, Ford, Coca-Cola ...there are many.
He’s Hilters best supporting arm
It's so weird how the Allied governments who stood by while Hitler dismembered Czechoslovakia were disappointed that some guy in robes with no armies failed to stop the Nazis from making war.
My understanding of the Holy See , That the whole world was responsible for world 2.
I just can’t stop laughing
And We willl be responsible for WW 3 too.@@louiesalinas1140
What is weird is that they were not disappointed the jesuits had created the far political right and left, the axis powers, the allied powers, invented communism, fascism, in pure hegelian fashion pitted the world into war to dismantle the last traces of the 'ancien regime' and establish a more thoroughly absolute jesuit global tyranny, a glorification of the political intrigues the vatican and its popes had been playing since the bishop of Rome became the pope.And the antichrist of the city that sits on seven hills, that rules over the kings of the earth, will be responsible for the Armageddon, and after Rome is destroyed by the world powers that carried her shortly after the Armageddon, the antichrist will make one last attempt at instigating war, the final world war at the close of this age, gathering the armies of the world against Jesus Christ when the greatest massacre in history will take place and the beast and the antichrist will be cast alive into the lake of fire. That is how big a role Babylon the Great plays in this world.
And the Jewish holocaust executed by the nazis is just one of the many Europe had seen since perhaps the destruction of the temple in 70 C.E., including the one which was carried out at the beginning of the first crusade to help finance the war effort. The Jewish holocausts have taken many forms and are of various different scales from individuals to hundreds to thousands to millions in a single event. From accusations of well poisonings--poisoned by secret catholic orders including, in more recent history, the jesuits, who were expelled the last time from Spain amid accusations of poisoning the wells during an outbreak of cholera, sacrifice of catholic children, to expulsions, ghettoes with many humiliating, asphyxiating restrictions and other injustices, or open war with the pillaging, rape, and destruction of property of Jewish communities. The popes invented the ghettoes and insisted on them through the ages. Major Jesuit newspapers---like civilta cattolica---argued with evident hostility against Jews, and many episodes of deliberate antisemitism culminated in the Nazi holocaust; all fascist leaders were catholic, Hitler, Franco, Pavelich, and Tiso--and never excommunicated; the blame was thrown on Germany, another target of the Vatican; the fasces is a roman symbol---used earlier by the jesuits and the vatican, if I remember correctly. The Vatican helped 90% of nazi war criminals escape in what has been called 'the route of the monasteries', hiding them in catholic convents all the way down to Rome and then to genoa provided with fake passports and sent to various countries, allied or axis, including Canada US and Argentina. the Nazis were not just a political party, they were death worshippers and sacrificed humans---traits of esoteric Catholicism long practiced in Vatican black masses.
Read history inform yourselves! Read the Bible and compare it with the catholic catechism, see if you find any errors... Never belong to an institution without first knowing what it really is about.
America's church and state separation was in effect until they had Japan attack pearl harbor (which Yamamoto said was suicide)
Priests are educated. The Nazis went after anyone with an advanced education in Poland and other occupied lands. People with an education are much more able to cause trouble for an occupying army.
@@frenzalrhomb6919 Actually, what he is saying is that the Nazis thought it was a great idea.
@@frenzalrhomb6919 can't you understand simple English?
@@frenzalrhomb6919 He’s saying that the Nazis targeted them for that reason. Not that it was a good thing.
@@jackdoyle7453 The fact is the nazis went after educated people in their occupied countries, yes they also killed union leaders and such, but one of the first things they did in Poland was to round up college professors and kill them.
@@jackdoyle7453 yeah but they need to be educated on how they are oppressed and how to take action
The Pope? How many divisions has he got?
-Joseph Stalin
About 400 000 officer's worth of men. Spread all around the world and specialist infiltrators and fanatically loyal soldiers are available as well. International organization.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Lol, officers. Reminds me of a crusade lead by a goose.
Better compare them to NKVD within the Soviet army ranks. Second guessing orders with their morality system and often knowing little to none about combat.
@@Paciat You really are that stupid. Each and every one of them has at least Bachelor's degree or equivalent. Roman-Catholic Church has lots of untapped power in it's disposal which includes military might as well.
Pity uncle Joe wasnt around to ask JP11 the same question.
@@vksasdgaming9472 😖 Reframe the question to ask ‘how much armament does the Pope have? Answer: the Swiss Guard with swords and halberds. Ooh, scary . . . Not!
This is such a powerful episode. The absolute truth of World War II is sickening. The chemistry of Indy, Astrid and Spartacus is undeniable and makes the information of this miniseries easier to digest (I hope this makes sense). My daughter and I eagerly await each episode as it is a significant learning tool in our homeschool. We will never forget.
Those are some very kind words, Isaac. Heartwarming to know that the watching of our content is something you and your daughter share. We wish you both all the best!
You speak the words that are also rolling around in my head.
They are lying 😂
It was their fault
They delete the truth on jew tube
The role of the Church in the War has always interested me, being a Catholic. Thank you for these episodes.
Thank you for watching
@@WorldWarTwo picking on catholics again huh
Look up what they did to Serbs many priests involved even the Nazis was shocked at their cruelty
@@pennypetrovic3682 that was the croats
@@pennypetrovic3682 that was the croats not the Vatican cuh
3:04 fun fact: Isaac Herzog's grandson, who is also called Issac Herzog after him, is Israel's current president.
Isaac Herzog was the first Chief Rabbi in Independent Ireland, before he went to Israel. He was a gifted linguist and spoke our native language "Irish" or "Gaeilge". He was a great friend of Ireland and was know as "the Sinn Féin Rabbi". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_HaLevi_Herzog
St Maximilian Kolbe, Pray for us!
The Genocide was in Russia
Jew tube
They are lying to you
How many did they murder?
The Pope and the Catholic Church were in a terribly difficult situation back then, much worse than minor statesmen that could at least take the appearances of pragmatism, detach themselves from the ideological debate and play with armed forces, market and economic resources - like Portugal and Switzerland did. The geographical position of Vatican made everything absolutelly worse, plus, conquered countries like France and poor Poland were mostly catholic with already endangered populations. Because of this, Church's officials had to work in the shadows of diplomatic connections, hideouts, forged documents and cash, which consequently opens debate to how much they actually did against the tyrants. Fortunately the shallow cliché of "Hitler's Pope" is being debunked.
Anyone that criticises Pope Pius XII for not "standing out and shout" is merely showing a false moral superiority, an "i'll sacrifice everyone to show how better i am". It's very easy to point accusatory fingers when you're not in 1939.
Der Alte This is not applying modern moral judgements to neandethals. This is one to two generations removed.
Any moral judgements about the church are well founded, and should be taken seriously.
@@WorldWarTwo I don't think he's making the neanderthal arguement, I think he's saying that here in 2022 we are safe to speak out against Nazism, Bolshevism and crimes against humanity that took place in WW2 without major threat of reprisal.
@@hanzzimmer1132 thanks for understanding me.
@@TheGrenadier97 the pope never excommunicated Nazis. The church supported nazism
@@WorldWarTwo I don't think that's how they intended that statement. They meant "you wouldn't know truly, you weren't there". Just like no one can understand the horror of the concentration camps or TRUE war unless they've lived it.
It's easy to sit down, watch a screen, read a document with the HINDSIGHT we have NOW and judge. We shouldn't.
We should make sound agreement of what happened didn't serve the greater good as a result; to not repeat the action.
It's similar to the "but, but, but they were in the German Army/Military!" Yeah. Lol They were CONSCRIPTED and forced to be indoctrinated in Nazi schools. I mean...they were called "Hitlers Youth" for Christ's sake.
Many Americans didn't have a choice serving for their country either and what if we had ended up on the wrong side of things? We got lucky. And we had SEGREGATED UNITS still. We had our own prejudices out for display. No one is innocent in these atrocities. I truly cannot say if there was one solitary country that didn't contribute to the political climate of those days. Whether it was well-intentioned or not, hard to know. 🤷♀️
Hindsight is 20/20. Easy for us to say "well, I'd do it differently. " lol OK, bro. If we end up in WW3 I'm gonna hold anyone to it who says that. Because it's very different to speak or act when lives are at risk.
Same reason the Allies didn't bomb auschwitz. They didn't want to hurt more people. Would it have saved some? Maybe. But, we'll never know.
Thank you very much for this series.
As I already mentioned underneath your previous Video: I always wondered what role the pope and the vatican played in the war.
I always wondered that too.
Thanks @Thanos 6.0 . This series has been in the works for a while so it's great that people are actually curious about the subject, and enjoying the videos!
Here is the role they played: The Vatican signed concordats with three dictators, Mussolini, Hitler and Franco in Spain. The Vatican was rewarded with money from Germany & Austria with all Catholics being taxed 10% from their salaries with the proceeds going to Rome. The Catholic Youth Organization (CYO) in Germany became the Hitler Youth. The Pope also got 10 million lira from Mussolini for the Vatican's support.
No Catholics would have been persecuted if the Pope opened his mouth about the genocide. The few priests that did open their mouths and were killed was NOTHING compared to 6 MILLION Jews. Protestant Evangelical clergy were in the same boat & many of them that spoke up were also killed. Moreover, Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels & EVERY concentration camp commander was a baptized Roman Catholic. Most of the German & Austrian people WERE Roman Catholic. It was also the RC Church that provided all of the documentation & birth certificates to the government to prove you were a Jew or not. This helped in the arrests, genocide and selecting members of the SS. The pope could have forbidden the churches from turning over this information to the Nazis.
A great book to read is HITLER'S POPE - The Secret History of Pius XII by John Cornwell.
@@WorldWarTwo
G'day,
Six years as a lapsed Presbyterian at a couple of Australian Catholic Boarding Schools, in the 1970s ; left me feeling that the entire Catholic Church looks like a Cat scratching on a Linoleum Floor, trying in vain to cover over the steaming Turd they laid on top of all their own espoused Faith in the Godtheory of Thou Shalt Not Kill..., regards the Church blessing Waaauugh(!) and all who take part therein, and all who support War, and all who make it possible for Warfare to occur upon the Earth... (and Waaauugh{!} Fare equals Eating War...).
My Teachers claimed Papal Neutrality meant that
"Pius XII had no choice, because there were Catholics on all sides of the Waaauugh(!)".
To this day, the Pope sleeps behind Armed Guards every night...(!).
Behavioural Analysis of that one single FACT yields the accurate assessment and illustration of the point - that the Pope BEHAVES as if he has ZERO actual FAITH in his Creator Godtheory's ability to keep him safe, from all Evil ; in real life.
And, because the Pope is seen to be a fearfully faithless man of great wealth and "power", therefore thus and because - in the real world the Pope relies on Paid Killers, bearing Death Machines, to keep him safe while he sleeps.
Apparently, clearly, the Pope is a practising Behavioural Atheist..., regardless of all the Bling and Marketing Jism (!).
So it is probably not surprising that the Vatican sanctioned, and continues to sanction..., Communicant Catholics enlisting to obey "Orders" to kill Humans, over differences of opinion concerning Politics and Policy.
If any of the "Faithful" actually relied on their Godtheory to keep them safe, then none of them would feel any "need" to be "armed" (to deal with whatever they consider their Godtheory too powerless to be able to cope with....).
So, institutionalised hypocrisy, underlying blasphemy and apostasy...; all because of the Church's having peddled
"Got Mit Uns...!" effect in every Nation wherein their Priests and Nuns and Brothers were peddling Godtheory as an integral part of Nationalism and Patriotism.
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
I’m not a RC, but the Pope was in an impossible situation. The Nazis had determined to wage a war of extermination on the Jews, Roma, and the Slavic populations. Does anyone really think that such monsters would have been dissuaded by a few speeches by the Pope?
Supposedly Stalin once asked, "how many divisions does the pope have?"
A hilarious and completely fucking stupid to think that reduction of his influence is important 😂
One fine video. Never Forget.
History is never black and white. Even the Pope who was supposed to be the part of good had dark sides throughout his papacy. The major or primary one I would simply deduce as fear. I don't consider him an evil man, or a hateful man, but simply a man whose fear of going far enough caused great tragedy. On the other hand, he was corageous enough to act to also reduced tragedy as much as he could or dared.
Never forget.
sometimes your own beliefs will cloud your judgement, so do you think that's possible?
@@delgermuruntsagaankhuu6951 I think belief can cloud judgement, yes. I also believe it can go both ways.
@Intreductor If history is never black and white do you suggest that Hitler had a good side?
@@answerman9933 that is quite dishonest arguing.
@@Intreductor It is not dishonest. You chose to used the word NEVER. Or, do just like to parrot what other people have said?
Very similar things took place in Austria after the Anschluss as well. The Cardinal there Theodor Innitzer initially and semi-reluctantly supported the German annexation, but after extensive discussions with Pius and the Vatican he eventually began to voice discontent with the Nazis. He however, had to tread much like Pius did as there were many cases of Nazi attacks on churches and Catholics throughout Austria. The story of Franz Jagerstatter is also a famous case of a Catholic refusing to fight for the Nazis and being killed as a result.
The saddest part of Bl. Franz's story is the discouragement he received from his priest, Bishop, and other Catholics he knew.
Everyone is a judgemental general after the battle, but no one would want to be in the shoes of Pius XII during the war.
It is a hard choice but he failed in moral leadership although he was more than willing to criticize communists.
@@caryblack5985 true but than again there were no communist troops out side the Vatican
@@caryblack5985 FDR and Churchill could have bombed the concentration camps. They had the power to end the final solution but refused to.
I (intern) must echo Cary Black's sentiment, and not just because of anachronism. The social influence of the papacy cannot be overstated.
Proclaiming some kind of ambiguity about Papal leadership or moral authority is to deny the very real position that the Vatican holds in the world, and held at the time.
I agree with you fully. I love how so many modern, spoiled people who have next to ZERO responsibilities in life love to judge historical leaders who had perhaps more responsibilities that they wanted. Especially when one only needs to read more than a few hours to understand there is just as much propaganda as there is proof of the Pope's actions. Seeing how easily most young adults feign at being triggered over people who disagree with them, yet love to judge how other's should have done more is golden irony....
Pius XII's plight feels similar to that of Prince Paul in Yugoslavia. Surrounded by enemies, balancing upon a treacherous beam... what can a man do in such hell? I think for the Pope one should expect more idealism than pragmatism, but regardless, this has been an interesting series to watch so far.
I think he failed in moral leadership.
as a Catholic I'd say martyrdom is always much more ideal than sucking up to monsters
@@dcpress98 Until you are put in a situation like that. You can say all you want, but saying isn't doing.
@@caryblack5985 The pope can only do so much and he is right - condemnations which in that point will not change anything, will just make everything worse.
Tito organized a resistance and fighted in Yugoslavia while Prince Paul did nothing, there is always something to be done if you are willing to risk it, but many people in position of powers want to continue with their lives without the risk to fight evil.
What about the true story of the Vatican Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty, dubbed The Scarlet Pimpernel of the Vatican? According to Wikipedia, Monsignor O'Flaherty is credited with saving 6,500 allied soldiers & Jews; and this with the knowledge & support of the Pope.
This really showed just how little power the church had, not only over their own people, but world events.
The Catholic Church is a modern-equivalent of the HRE, except its way poorer, cant declare wars, and is dependent on Italy allowing its existence. The dioceses act so differently from one another that there are cliques within the Church. The pope does not even have the power to replace still-serving bishops and cardinals, while he can pressure them to resign or excommunicate him directly, he has no authority to actually depose one let-alone appoint someone. Also the papacy is in the same position as the UK's royalty is - they both have to tread carefully when dealing with its internal politics or else they question on how much power the pope actually has will come back up again.
@@mosesracal6758
👍
Just like you conscience, if you don't listen to it, it won't influence your actions in a positive way.
@@nicholasconder4703
Obviously the carrot (heaven) and the stick (hell) doesn't have the same fear factor it once had.
@@thomasridley8675 It seldom did. How many times did kings in the Middle Ages try to place their own pontiff on the seat of Peter? I can think of a German Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV, French King Philippe IV and Napoleon to name three. How often did monarchs meddle in the election or affairs of popes? Numerous times since the foundation of the Church. In fact it is probably a rarer case where monarchs were actually cowed by Popes, Henry II being one famous example.
Hi Sparty
This series is great to watch..
Waiting for next episode.
Thanks
A key to understanding Pius' approach is what happened in the Netherlands in 1942. When the Dutch Catholic bishops protested explicitly against the deportation of Jews, the Nazis accelerated their roundup, and extended it to Catholics with Jewish ancestry. The proportion of Dutch Jews rounded up was the highest in any western country, 79%. Thus Pius saw that more explicit protests made the situation worse for those who were being persecuted. So official Catholic efforts focused more on saving individuals. According to the Jewish historian Pinchas Lapide, official Church efforts led to the lives of 860,000 Jews being saved over the course of the war. For example, in Hungary, 80,000 false baptismal certificates were issued to Jews. In the city of Rome itself, 7,000 Jewish lives were saved. I think that Pius' course of action was just about right. Although many desired more explicit condemnations, he had a more accurate picture of the situation than those who desired such statements. Certainly, immediately after the war, Jewish praise for Pius was great, coming from people like Golda Meir and the Chief Rabbi of Israel. The Chief Rabbi of Rome went so far as to become a Catholic and take Eugenio as his Christian name, that is, Pius' own Christian name.
The experience of the Dutch Catholic bishops really is essential for understanding Pius XII's actions later in the war: it really did backfire spectacularly. Does it justify them at every point? I think it at least is an occasion for caution in building any indictment of Pius XII.
The experience of the Dutch bisshops only served to whitewash the behaviour and inaction of the catholic church. And apearently it worked: 70 years later at least 2 RUclips viewers fell for it.
1) catholocism was only a factor in 2 provinces. The rest of the country was protestant and neither the Germans nor the Dutch could care less about what any bisshop was saying.
2) the low survival rate of Jews in the Netherlands and the timing of their mass deportation is a mix of factors. Any position held or action (not) taken by the Dutch bisshops doesnt even register in that mix.
For an institution that claims to have the moral highground on everything, and that pretends to be willing to sacrifice themselves to protect the innocent they should have been a loud, unmutable voice from day one till the last regardless of the consequence. I hope we can at least agree that they weren't that in any way. Instead, helping Nazi's escape to South America after the war was more their thing.
@@samvanriel6168 If you're determined to hate the Catholic Church, I can't stop you. But perhaps you just might stop to consider the tens of thousands of Jews kept in hiding in Church properties all over Europe, and what might have happened to them had Pius XII decided to go all Anathema Sit on the Nazis.
@@richardmalcolm1457 not really... they've done good things too, and it wasnt my point. The WW2 debacle just really wasnt an example of that. And the analysis that was made in both your comments regarding the impact of the Dutch bisshops' statements/behaviour remains wrong in many ways.
I suggest reading up on the specific circumstances surrounding the holocaust in The Netherlands. Then you will find the original argument made not much sense. As you can only subscribe my comment as hating the church, i have the same feeling: the argument you made seems to me only possible if one has a positive bias towards it.
And to prove my stance isnt necesarily anti religion: many protestant ministers behaved like heroes. The difference? No churce leader telling them not to. And believe me: im no fan of protestantisme.
always facinating and reassuring when TG research shows the impact of national propaganda on objective historical narratives... ie... analysis this rich doesn't happen often, anywhere, many thanks
That's some high praise! We appreciate it.
@@jackdoyle7453 Cornwall's works desperately want to paint Pope Pius as antiemetic. In every turn he finds a way to make it look like Pope Pius was happy that Htler became Chancellor.
Hes putting a lot of words into a muffled person.
@@jackdoyle7453 I encourage you to read Pius XII and the Second World War by Pierre Blet which came out at the same time as John's book and it's largely sourced from the Vatican Archives
Really interesting new series with a lot of depth. Also Two Ties always makes my day. Thanks all
We're glad to hear this, thanks for watching!
He repeatedly and loudly criticised the Nazis until it became clear they only responded with increasing ferocity persecuting Catholics and Jews alike.
In 39 he altered his strategy to be non confrontational on the surface but orchestrated a vast underground Catholic resistance that saved nearly a million Jews. His clandestine network also plotted several assassination attempts on Hitler who had met the strict theological conditions to justify such extreme action.
More than this, the Allied powers begged P12 not to bring attention to the holocaust as it could backfire by sparking public comparisons between Nazi and Soviet atrocities that humiliate the Soviets and break up the alliance, thus letting the Nazis win.
P12 even housed Jews in his own residence while Rome was under occupation!
What more could you possibly want, given the circumstances?
Oh wait, i know! You want any excuse to denounce a Church you feel good about hating.
I appreciate the insight at the end of this episode. I'm cautious of labelling people like Pius XII Nazi sympathizers. My grandmother and her mother were saved by the family of the so-called "Nazi" Lutheran bishop of Oslo (called "nazibiskopen" by Afternposten). In reality this man took great risk to his own position by publicly pleading for Norwegian Jews in the cathedral and on the radio, and even risked his own family by harboring a Jewish woman and child at his home amid mass deportations. To emphasize the risk: my great-grandfather was deported alongside a Catholic priest who had been vocal against the persecution of Jews - and both of them perished in concentration camps within a few months. The bishop received a heavy sentence for treason after the war, despite the efforts of the Jewish community, while countless actual sympathizers and criminals (members of the NS, volunteers to the Wehrmacht and the SS and even the murderers of the Feldmann couple) went unpunished. The pope may not have been a great Catholic or a brave man, but he wasn't a Nazi-sympathizer.
Are you referring to Eivind Josef Berggrav, bishop of Oslo? His Wikipedia biography describes him as famous in wartime Norway for his anti-Nazi stance, his arrest by the Germans in 1942, being on the cover of Time magazine in the Christmas edition of 1944, and awarded the Medal of Freedom by President Truman.
Yet the Pope was thanked by several prominent Jews for his silent effort to save them.
I just feel sorry for him. Having to make those decisions where nothing you can do is the right thing to do must have been truly horrific
One could understand his silence when the Vatican was still surrounded by fascist Italy, and later by the Germans after they took over. The outcome of the war was unclear at the time, and any public statements by the Vatican could have made things difficult for Catholics in the new world order, without really achieving anything. What baffles me is that he maintained his silence even when it was clear that the Allies and Soviets were going to win. Was it just out of habit or something?
@@jirkazalabak1514 An animal is most dangerous once you got it wounded and cornerd. Its hard to know what could have happend, the Nazis we're still killing "traitors" and such right up till the end. Plus the werewolfunits (even though largly unreal) we're feared by everyone, so maybe he was afraid of Terror Attacks?
@@derwolf3006 He was the Pope, living deep in Allied territory, and guarded by his own personal bodyguard. I really don´t think he was afraid for his own life, or for the safety of the Vatican at that point.
Yet he hid nazi war criminals and murderers after the war.
He had the title "Vicar of Christ". But is that what Jesus would have done, keep His mouth shut while His brothers were being murdered? You should read HITLER'S POPE - The Secret History of Pius XII by John Cornwell.
Pius XII did more than all the allies combined to save Jews. See Rabbi David Dalin's book.
Very complex subject Great Video!!!!
Thanks @david rudd !
It wasn't. There were significant inaccuracies in it and the omission of important pieces of informatiion. They cited Rolf Hochhuth as one of their sources. He was successfully sued for defamation.
I have done lots of newspaper research on Pope Pius XII and have found that he was more vocal than others usually say he was, including this video, or at least what it appears to be saying. I have found newspapers articles that talk about things he said on numerous occasions throughout the war, especially at the beginning of the war.
Over the decades the clear and present thread of anti-Catholism has run deep. I commend people for wanting (at least at a shallow level) to learn history. However, many who have spent time educating themselves on a specific & specialized subject have come to understand this: the more you know, the more you learn you don't know.
Most sure-fire commenters here are nearly displaying a lack of any honest learning. Not a single person, not even Sparty, has the capacity to fully comprehend the reasons behind the decisions of world leaders from the past. One can only assume the words written in history books are honest, unbiased, and who’s sources themselves were not slanted. Those who've studied governments know damn well once one conflict ends, the attention goes right next one, ie undermining a world religion within one’s boarders that may or may not choose to follow a religious leader over their own countries elected leader. And most humans have zero knowledge of that clear and present anti-Catholism coming from Govmnt', institutions, academics, major web companies, and many a layman alike.
I wrote a history paper on this in the 1970's and how the Church made a choice between being overtly anti-Nazi and pro-Jew or 'stay out of the political conflict'. Millions of Catholics might have joined the Jews as victims in the Holocaust. This was a measured decision to protect Catholics as the first priority. I am glad I was not faced with such a decision. Thinking of my paper now I still think the Church could have done more but recognized the grim realities of the Nazis. Ghandi said he knew his protest had a chance against the British that followed the rules of law. He admitted if the Nazis had controlled the Government he would never have been successful but jailed and killed.
But Pius xii saved literally 860,000 Jews with his own personal fortune during Holocaust. Not with Church money, but family inheritance!.
Excellent straight forward, unbiased information. Thank you Spartacus.
Thanks very much, Paul. We appreciate your support
It's always hard to be in the middle of two opposing sides. That's what Pius XII had to endure.
Great video. I hope that you make one special on the Angel of Budapest when the time comes. That was the nickname of the Spanish ambassador to Hungary (named Ángel), who used his position to save Jews by getting them Spanish passports and transit papers out of Nazi-occupied territory. He managed to save thousands of lifes, despite lacking support from his government (as at this point the Spanish dictatorship, though not specially anti-semitic, wasn't going to risk their relations with Germany in order to save Jews). He also issued a manifesto in 1944 condemning publicly the Holocaust, document that was signed by the neutral ambassadors that remained in Hungary.
I don't envy the position he found himself in. Being located in Italy, the Nazis primary ally, probably didn't help make it easy or perhaps possible to speak out against any actions the Axis made in any satisfactory way.
And even if he did, what was to stop him from dying under "mysterious circumstances" and replaced by someone who was more sympathetic to the Axis?
I don't think he feared for his own life. Religious leaders with moral authority have to make the hard choice.
There were plans to occupy the Vatican State on the pretext of "security" if the Pope became troublesome enough. I think it's mentioned in the TV movie "The Scarlet and the Black" with Gregory Peck as Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty and Christopher Plummer as Obersturmbannfuhrer Herbert Kappler.
@@caryblack5985 yes quietly saving 1.5 million jews in silence vs moral grandstanding and allowing it's church usurped and gutted in German occupied territory. Before you go off saying 40% of Germans were Catholic may I remind you Napolean was not deposed for imprisoning the Pope in 95% catholic nation and they already knocked the teeth out of the Lutherans they only needed an excuse across the board.
@@charlesramirez587 I would like to see the proof he saved 1.5 million Jews.
Happy we're getting a whole mini-series on this
Thanks for watching, Ben
As a devout Catholic, this is always hard, but also I’m glad you guys show the real history. It wasn’t so much that Pius was a Hitlerite, but a diplomat who maybe was at times too diplomatic. I do think in general he was a good man but also a pragmatist to the point that he didn’t want to hurt anyone. I won’t say it’s wrong but I can see how that kind of person isn’t well liked in a situation that’s one of the closest we see to black and white.
Pius was a good catholic but catholics were split,british catholics fought against him. Catholics in Europe resisted him sounds like a lack of leadership by the pope due to his understandable dilemma
These guys sow the real history??? You seem easily manipulated. A lot of Catholic hate in the comments here, this video got some facts wrong. But don't listen to me, Even Albert Einstein would think this video is BS. In 1940 Time magazine quoted Einstein praising the Catholic Church for its role in opposing the Nazis: "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."
A lot of Catholic hate in the comments here, this video got some facts wrong. But don't listen to me, Even Albert Einstein would think this video is BS. In 1940 Time magazine quoted Einstein praising the Catholic Church for its role in opposing the Nazis: "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."
Between a rock and a hard place.
Bible enthusiasts would know that Pius is the rock ;)
Even though Sparty has the difficult job of telling the story of war against humanity - I could listen to him for hours. And this is a great topic and I do have the feeling this miniseries will touch it as deep as possible but still only superficial.
Great work!
Thank you for the kind words!!
2:15 second right behind the pope is that Guglielmo Marconi?
The term "Hitler's Pope" came from the1963 play "The Deputy" by Rolf Hochhuth, and most of the charges one still hears against Pius XII derive from it.. Hochhuth, though a West German citizen, was in fact an East German agent reporting to the Stasi, and his play was commissioned (reportedly by the Kremlin) as an exercise in propaganda designed to discredit the Papacy, and especially the newly-elected John XXIII. It was, sadly, highly effective.
Ironically, Hochhuth himself was virulently anti-Semitic.
that's a expected option from communist, they fighted against nazis and condemned it knowing the risk of the concentration camps while the pope maintained silence because they didn't want to risk anything to evil.
@@danielsan901998 The communists joined the Nazis and offered them all possible means for their triumph against the Western allies, disgusting and pathetic your attempt to put the blame on your dirty ideology and his direct collaboration with the national socialists, Pope Pius XII did more for the good of the people than your killer tyranny led by an anti-Semitic.
I understand and somewhat sympathize with the dilemma Pius found himself in, but there must be a time when you stand up and say "No, this is wrong." His inaction, designed to limit the damage, is the same appeasement used to try to get Hitler to not go to war in the first place. A doomed effort that, in all likelihood, added to the total body count. Pius had no clear way of measuring the effects of his choices, even in hindsight, which is why morality and principle should have guided his actions. At least then the weight bearing down on the fascist governments of Europe would have been even greater.
Yeah Catholics had zero problem declaring crusades, or burning people alive over theological minutae. But when millions are being persecuted, gassed and cremated in ovens they remained silent. That is the legacy of Pius in WWII.
Well, considering the church got thrashed around for doing things like that later on, it's no wonder they were hesitant to get more involved with the war.
Stand up, attack the tyrants and increase the sufferings in Europe? Please.
@@runtoth3abysstypical person with zero understanding of Catholic history. Just "Crusades Bad".
@@flavorgod lol. This is just your rebuttal to everyone who criticizes the Catholic Church isn't it? You purposefully missed the point my comment was making.
For example you have Catholics calling abortion a genocide but when it comes to the actual genocide of the Holocaust the behavior of the church was ambivalent at best.
Catholicism is an obvious failed moral system and that's ignoring the delusional underpinning of the mythology itself
I feel there a few things that have lead to some people’s opinion of this pope, the main one is that some people cannot fathom how the world can fall into such darkness randomly so they want to blame. Another is that the atrocities committed against Catholics is not made commonly known so people can take advantage of that to try to make the church look bad. They criticized him, and in some ways fairly, that him simply not publicly condemning what was happening but I propose a question: what good would making statements do? At the time we were dealing with predominantly atheist countries and while the Balkans were predominately christian the bad blood between the peoples had gone on for so long they would come up with whatever excuse they could despite what someone in Rome would say.
This wizard supported Hitler up to the moment his power was in danger... That's it...
One need only to look at how the Balkans exploded into an orgy of death and destruction again in the 90s, to question whether anyone can have any influence over an area with animosities that seem to run centuries deep and are never forgotten or forgiven. Just how Tito managed to hold Yugoslavia together for as long as he did given the diverse ethnic backgrounds and animosities, must be viewed as unique. No doubt some form of secret police were involved in controlling the various factions.
What would it do? One simply has to look at La Cristiada in Mexico to see what the Papacy can do when it is willing to support a cause even if in a hands off way. Imagine if at the same tike in Poland during the Warsaw uprising devoted Catholics in Austria and Bavaria rose up in little rebellions. Mussolini's powerbase would crumble. And imagine if he were to actually assault or kill the pope? Then Pius would likely become a martyr fir catholics around the world. Outrage turning into a crusade of the faithful against the enemy, fascism.
If the pope is to be a genuine MORAL leader and inspiration to catholucs and other people he must take a moral ground and publicly issue proclamations explicitely naming who is doing what to whom, be it Nazzis, Soviets, Japanese, or the allies.
If he is just a dipolmat and a leader concernedcin real politic than his actions are more undestanble, if no less odious. But then he has no right to claim to be a moral beacon to humanity
The catholic church condemned fascists, nazis and communists in 3 different encyclicals of the 1930s with no discernible improvement in their behaviour. The public protest of the deportation of Dutch Jews by Archbishop de Jong of Utrecht was ineffective in saving the lives of Jews.
This episode was painful to watch, yet needed to be done.
It was a balanced look at Pius XII and his walking the tightrope of diplomacy.
As a Roman Catholic, this is an episode that I appreciate and will recommend to others.
Never Forget!
Thank you for your support!
Never Forget.
Spartacus, master of the.... gravitas-laden pause.
With later wisdom and later acknowledge is easier to make decisions. The Pope was a moral and religious authority, in non way he could have stopped Hitler and Stalin for perpetrating their atrocities and war crimes. Genocides by Hitler and Stalin were not made public. The situation was without alternative, with keeping silent the Pope would have appeared accomplice, if he would have spoken against, there was a risk of aggravation of situation.
Then the allies were warned and aware of genocides, they had the firepower to intervene and what have they done to impede the Holocaust? Not to mention that allies included communist Russia and still today we don't know what communism is.
I like the use of the Vatican bells in the intro 👌🤌
great video, fantastic graphics
Indeed Spartacus ! We must remember and speak out !
Another great episode on this forgotten and little discussed part of WWII. I eagerly await the next episode!
Thank you so much!
Once again,an amazing video,thank you so much for that series,very worthwhile.
Thanks for watching with us @Sleepyhead Sailor !
The Vatican Apostolic Archives opened Pius XII's era to researchers in 2020, but just a little later they had to be shut down due to COVID-19 closing *everything*. Only recently have researchers, to my knowledge, been let back in.
"The war is lost, we need to start protecting the Jews so we can say we tried"
Monsignor Montini (Paul VI) 1943 letter to Nunzio in Bulgaria Angelo Roncalli (John XXIII)
(Full exchange cited in Goldhagen "A moral reckoning")
That ignores the fact that Pius XII was trying to get Jews out of Germany immediately after Kristallnacht to save them. That was just a few months before he became the pope. Funny how over 30 countries who refused to take Jews in after the Evian conference in 1938 all get a free pass. Only the Dominican Republic took Jews in.
The stuff about the church in ww2 is something that is always overlooked. Nice to finally hear something about it.
Glad you liked it
The relationship between the Vatican, bishop Stepinac and the Ustasje regime is quite interesting.
Very detailed and nuance presentation.
Thank you for addressing this
Thank you! Shared.
Thank you Ziba! We appreciate your support!
Great stuff, as usual! But a little bit of linguistic nitpicking: the S in Jozef Tiso's last name should be pronounced as S in Spartacus, not as Z in e.g. Zoe.
Thanks for the tip. We have so many different names to deal with all the time that we'll sometimes slip up. Please forgive us.
Nobody cares or remembers what Rabbi Israel Zolli had to say about Pope Pius XII in 1944?
All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to remain silent
40 public denunciations of the nazis on German soil which Pius XII did is not being silent.
You should check out the Movie Amen. Its about Kurt Gerstein the SS officer trying to inform the Vatican of what was happening in the camps.
The Scarlet and the Black Greg Peck and Chris Plummer 1983.
Was it not based on a play sponsored by the kgb ?
A great video.
I will say though that there are those that feel that Pius XII's FIRST and PRIMARY responsibility was to defend the Church.
Thank you. We are glad you enjoyed our video.
Pius XII always seemed more comfortable in the role of diplomat than of priest. His failure to take a stronger, more vocal stand against the Nazis was a moral failing of the first order. Perhaps if the Vatican had not been located in the middle of the Axis empire, he would have acted boldly and decisively, but I suspect not. I do not think it was in his nature. From a purely pragmatic point of view, there was nothing he could do to prevent the war or stop the genocide. He likely feared if he did more he risked the destruction of the Vatican and the treatment of all Catholics as Jews. While I do not think the Nazis would have acted so rashly, it is conceivable they would have used more subtle approaches to undermine the Church. Perhaps it would have been more honorable and in keeping with the example of Christ for Pius to have taken a more vocal and forceful stance, but I can't help thinking he held a long-term view that the Vatican must survive the war in order to challenge the continuing threat of Communism. Perhaps this is rationalization. Certainly Stalin did not fear the power of the faith, or as he supposedly once scoffed, how many divisions has the Pope? Such is the thinking of all tyrants.
Thoughtful comment. It is disturbing however to see how strongly he opposed Communism but was silent against Fascism and Nazism. Many Germans were Catholic and it is unlikely they would start to persecute a large portion of their citizens when they needed every able bodied men for their war.
treatment of all Catholics as Jews? i dont think so. Italy was like 90% catholic and germany was like 40%. i think he was more concerned with Red Russia and afraid of Mussolini ordering him dead.
@@caryblack5985 I agree, and that is why I think the Nazis would have tried subtler tactics to control/eliminate him or to reduce the influence of the Papal state. Plus it would have turned Italy against Germany that much sooner. After the war he no longer had to fear Nazi wrath so he was free to attack the Soviets, something he refrained from doing during the war.
@@wagnercarvalho1854 I agree, but I'm talking about the Pope's perception of the potential threat. See my previous response to this question. Hitler was already killing priests and sending Catholics to concentration camps or a select basis in other countries.
Nah I'm pretty sure the Nazis would have just completely destroyed the church if he had spoken out decisively and stuff. He probably saved more people by being officially neutral. It should be noted though that he did a lot of stuff behind the scenes including helping the German resistance.
Let me ask all the haters out there what did you want Pius to do? He had no army. Yeah, we know now that mini mini mini Allied personnel and Jews were saved by the Vatican.
I like this and all background is interesting.
Thanks for watching with us @Martin Lye
Thank you for another informative and well presented video.
Thank you for watching, George
You need to consider not only the Pope, what he said and not said, but the Church as a whole to understand the contribution of the Catholic Church to the struggle against the nazi pagans.
Nazis are no pagans and their antisemitism is firmly rooted in centuries of european christian antisemitism, not to mention the genocides of of other christians prior to the nazis with full support of the church.
"Gott mit uns" is a slogan of the Nazis.
@@Casa-de-hongos "Gott mit uns" can mean any god. Hitler in his speech on Bismarck’s grave saw the old man enjoying eternity in Valhalla.
@@comdo831 So you really convinced yourself, that millions of christian germans suddely became pagans in 33 and then by a miracle they became christians again in 45?
Ok...
Wouldn't it have been better to wait as Pius Xiis archives were jest released around June 1 , 2022. Maybe some critical scholarly research could add more info.
A book has already been published by a professor that has researched the Archives (which were released in 2020 not 2022) it is by David Kertzer The Pope At War.
@@caryblack5985 kertzer just published a book June 13, 2022 which details previously unknown back channel directly to Hitler through Hesse. I'm just saying wait until dust settles on the new book, and the usual counter and pro arguments take place. It takes a while to sort through claims and counter claims .
@@robertkoons1154 I just was pointing out some critical scholarly research has been done as of this month.
Thanks for the video,.
Thanks for watching, Sands. You're not as bad as everyone says, you're not coarse or irritating.
By leaving this comment I am showing my support for the channel, and helping with the channel's algorithm.
11:36 How could ANYTHING Pius said have made it MORE difficult for the Jews?
@KJVNEWS Things are of course dire for Europe's Jews, but what aid they are receiving, and what hope they do have for liberation, is mostly dependent on the goodwill of foreign governments. Things can always get worse if that goodwill wanes.
This interesting for me as my grandfather, Dr Franz Kapp worked with the church to remove non arynas in the church employment from the NAZI imprisonment, sadly I lack any concrete details and my grandparents are dead
I watch you guys every time you release a new video. I love everything you do but I have one complaint. The clock behind you hasn’t moved at all during this entire video. Fix that and you will be practically flawless. Never forget!
Lucas It's set to a specific time…
Two episodes down, two more to go. Not a Christian or Catholic by religion (free thinker here), but so far it has been kind of interesting to see the Vatican's role during the war.
It would be interesting to also see the analysis of what the Catholic Church as a whole was doing, not just the leadership. For instance, it is no secret that much of the Protestant clergy in the Third Reich was on Hitler´s side, so it would be interesting to see the Catholic side of this.
@@jirkazalabak1514 Well two prominent clergy you should look up are Clemens August Graf von Galen aka "The Lion of Munster" and Monsignor Hugh O'flaherty aka "The Scarlet Pimparnel of the Vatican". And I'm pretty sure most Protestant clergy in Germany weren't that hot on the Nazi's either...
You’re not free thinker, you are just another one that believes superior to other’s for his supposedly “free thinking”, you can watch what free thinker’s truly are looking at Stalin, Mao and all other’s form of tyranny that came from people like you.
After watching this, I have a more balanced view of the Pope. He couldn't even control a priest, and had he officially condemmed the holocaust - then Germans would've imprisoned him. Thank you.
Can you do a piece on ww2 and the Vatican bank.
Never forget to watch a WAH episode until just before bedtime... Opps. This one was less graphic, in it's way, but hugely depressing. Reminds me of the diplomatic speak of today too. I wonder what the future John Paul II was thinking in Poland...
Well done! Nuance, context, and a great effort to not choose a side!
Thank you all! Please keep up the important work!
Thank you!
I have to ask myself, would I have done anything different
if I were in his position,
in the face of that seemingly overwhelming evil?
the damage was done, and the go ahead was given when the world stood by as Czechoslovakia was sacrificed on the pyre of "peace in our time", or earlier in Spain.
all the what ifs, if you lined them up, would stretch around the globe
This is solid work- well done. The title is a bit absolute though. He definitely didn't do nothing.
Eugenio Pacelli sounds like he was truly the wrong man, at the wrong time, in the wrong place. He was a diplomat, a conciliator at heart & a lamb, when the job during World War II called for a lion. Contrast this with Karol Wojtyla, who never backed down as Pope John Paul II, confronting Communism, antisemism and prejudice, and never pulled punches. Whether you agreed or disagreed with him, you knew where he stood. The same couldn't be said of Pius XII, who clearly lacked the guts to take on the Nazis and their war against humanity. I am waiting to see the final two episodes and to see if you address Vatican assistance given to Catholic Nazis who fled justice.
What did the Orthodox church do during the war?
Orthodox Church is not organized like Catholic. No one leader or authority like pope, every Orthodox Church is independent from others.
get killed by the soviets and trying to survive.
They were being killed by the Soviet under the five persecution sessions by the a communist party.
Depends on the country. For example, in Greece Orthodox priests and monks were saving Jews, but in Romania there was a degree of collaboration.
@@roseandsword. It was war and several individuals were fearful for their lives. In these situations, some people are ready to throw other people under the bus for survival. Not here to judge them because we’ve never been on their shoes.
Another excellent video on a controversial subject. I suggest reading "The Myth of Hitler's Pope".by Rabbi Dalen. I found it very objective and are of the impossible situation the Vatican found it self in.
The Rabbi' full name is David G.
Oooohhh This is Intriguing Thankyou
I find it quite ironic that the newly chosen leader of a tiny country located in the middle of another one that is clearly violent is seen as a negative person because he was silent. Yet when the whole of Europe was silent during Czechoslovakia it's apparently ok. He is said to have made some fake gestures yet when France and Great Britain signed an alliance with Poland aand all they did was print some leaflets and an empty gesture of declaring war was it okay? We have weird standards here.
Tim Minchin's song still applies.
Which one?
far from a hands-off approach, maybe words-off would characterise it better. Where words would inadvertently cause greater suffering, he chose to let actions speak for him. History has redeemed him completely and exonerated in the eyes of everyone but the staunchest anti-catholics.
I really expected a 'never forget' there from Sparty 18:03
He was a moral coward. He could rationalise his actions however he wanted, but the fact was that he didn't speak out because he feared the Vatican losing influence, ironically, considering that he was surrendering influence by not speaking out. He effectively continued the policy of appeasement into the actual war, by which time it was completely irrelevant.
Losing influence? INFLUENCE?????
Thousands of people losing their lives in retaliations counts as far more than losing influence.
@@lsq7833 yeah, obviously. I'm not really sure how you managed to read my post as a defence of the guy. Pius XII was utterly craven, putting short sighted, and ultimately irrelevant political concerns over moral and humanitarian ones.
@@wh8787 Your ignorance and bad faith, only shows the lack of accepting the evidence when it is presented to him, there is nothing more pathetic than someone who judges the comfort of home in the face of a situation of great vulnerability, you are disgusting, people like you are nothing more than ill-intentioned.
It's increíble the dirty campaign against The Pope Pio XII. This happen because he is a real Saint. God Will put each in their place.
Is difficult to imagine Christian devote people in the resitantance, or Christian devote civilians helping jews or others to avoid extermination, risking his lifes and families, against this evil. People that know that being killing by the Nazis is better than corrupt their values. May be they need "The moral and values support" from The Pope, their Leader, more than his neutrality........
well more like trading that moral grandstanding for not getting politically hunted down and killing over 1 million more people both Jews and Christians show prudence. I'm genuinely curious when Napoleon didn't get pushback for imprisoning the pope why would the fascists?
Man who does Pius have to pay to get a fuckin break around here
Great video! Despite what you say, I believe, based on a biography that I read around the year 2000, Pius XIi will always be remembered as “Hitler’s Pope”. His morality was “squishy” when it came to protecting Jews. He may have saved many, but he was so worried about Nazi revenge that he compromised his morality. God will ultimately judge his salvation and his legacy. We need to compare Pius XII’s legacy with Dietrich Bonhoeffer! The latter is a Saint!
Thank you.
The picture at 15:33 is amazing. On the right hand side, we have the gleeful persecutors, going from the positively satanic face of the man in the background to foolish collaboratims on the closer faces. On the left-hand side, we have a very dubious expression on the face in the foreground. Behind him stands another man with what could be a very forced, painful smile - or a gleeful laugh. I feel this photograph is a piece for art.
Thank you Carl. We can only guess what went on in their minds during the day of this photograph. Never forget
Indeed, this is all my interpretation, regarding it neutrally as a work of art. I am not judge and jury, and am not saying I have any idea of who is guilty.
In my 67 years, I've never heard the socio political history of the Balkans described better.
I think he was a coward; however, to cut the pope some slack, I don’t know if a more aggressive stance would have helped. At least he would have gone down fighting as so many brave souls did.
It was a long time ago, but I think that Golda Meir planted a Grove of trees in honor of Eugenio Paccelli, Pius 12th.
Not only did the Cheif Rabbi of Rome become A Baptized Catholic & took the Baptismal name Eugenio in honor of Pope Pius 12th, Eugenio Paccelli.
You forgot to mention that Pius the 12th also secretly hid a number of Jews in the Vatican untli the end of the war (you can fact check this). He was in fact powerless and could not do much to stop the atrocities out of fear of reprisal, but behind the scenes he was indeed helping as much as he could. I think your episode is missing this particular and it should have been mentioned. It's easy to judge and point fingers at the Vatican but the truth is more complicated than that and I don't think other popes could have acted so much differently. Especially towards the end of the war when Nazi's were also committing atrocities against the Italian population, he felt that his actions could have potentially brought even more death as a consequence. He was indeed in a tricky situtation
We didn't forget to mention but rather chose not to because it wasn't appropriate for our real-time format. But as you'll notice, at the end we listed several instances where he took active steps to save Jews and alluded to several more later in the war.
You can also watch the next two episodes of the series to see us talk about stuff he did behind the scenes.
@@WorldWarTwo indeed! thanks for your reply!
You're very welcome
I feel like the Pope decided to follow the advice of Aaron Burr, just like he was willing to Wait for it, to talk less, smile more, don't let them know what you're against or what you're for.
And so also applies this other line of Hamilton: "If you stand for nothing, Burr, what will you fall for?"