Join the TimeGhost Army: bit.ly/SPECIAL_087_PI Grizzly, dangerous, and hard work - it's not a job that can be done on your laptop from home or a café. What would make you join the Merchant Navy? Before commenting, please check out the rules of conduct which apply to this comment section: community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
My grandfather was a Merchant Marine. I never really asked "why did you choose this?" because at the time I didn't really understand the importance of their job.
My grandfathers younger brother joined because he couldn't join the military due to a medical reason that I have forgotten. My grandfather had joined the airborne in 42 and was sending his money home because his father was sick and he had younger 6 siblings. He didn't want anyone else to go to war and was pissed when he found out Frank signed up in 44. From what I've read a lot of older men and those who couldn't serve in the military due to medical or physical reasons would join the merchant marines to still do their part. My grandfather would always badger frank about not listening to him until he passed away. They never gave that up.
My dad worked in the merchant marine, in the late fifties. He had fallen out with his father, and wanted to stand on his own feet. He had some months to survive before he could fulfill his duty to the nation as a conscript. So he signed up in the merchant marine. I think he went up and down between Rotterdam and New York a few times (not on a tramp steamer, but on a regular line). After his army service, he worked his way through university doing many jobs including house painting and making glass-in-lead windows. Then he became a university teacher (Yanks would call him a "professor", but that is a title reserved for heads of departments where I live). My life is pretty boring compared to his... He died in 2004 from an accident.
My wife's Grand Dad had two supply ships(American Merchant Marine) shot out from under his ass in the N.Atlantic and lived to tell the tale but died before we met.Tough bunch
My grandfather joined the US Merchant Marines when he was 17, his ship docked in Japan right after the war ended and he got to see Tokyo in its destruction, he said he only saw one building that had not been destroyed. He passed away in January at the age of 94, I am grateful for all the stories he told me.
Fascinating. Was he part of the efforts of the US to save Japan from deadly starvation after Japan‘s merchant navy was completely destroyed in the war? It’s a little known fact due to our focus on Britain here in the West but the Japanese merchant marine was hit by far the hardest in the war and was nearly completely destroyed leaving Japan weeks before starvation and stranded millions of Japanese soldiers overseas with no supplies in August 45
Bless him. My dad joined at 17 in 1944 and served on USS LST 960. Got out in '48. Served with the Sea Bees after the ship was decommed in 1946. He passed at age 89 in 2016. Great men, for sure.
My grandfather was a Merchant Marine during WWll. The one time he spoke of his experience serving he said he always tried to volunteer for ammo or tanker ships. Not for the higher pay but that if his ship was torpedoed he would die in the explosion and not suffer the fate of the men he saw and heard left in the freezing North Atlantic screaming to be picked up knowing that ships can't stop or leave a convoy to pick up survivors.
It’s so easy to read in a book or hear Indy say something like “three merchantmen were sunk by U-Boats” without really grasping the human trauma and intensity such an event really entailed. Thanks for trying to shine a light on it TimeGhost team.
I'm the youngest of a much older generation, my father was an officer in the merchant navy, I didn't learn about what he had been through or seen until after his funeral. These were brave men and BOYS. Evidently he had been sunk twice and seen so many young men burn to death or drown it was horrendous. His best friend told me stories of my father's courage and I was stunned that he could even live a normal life after the war. God bless all those merchant sailors from all countries
My great grandfather was merchant marine. He served on the M/V San Demetrio and his convoy HX 84 was attacked by the Admiral Scheer. His boat was hit with shells and caught fire however he along with the rest of his crew abandoned ship and half of the crew made it back to safety. The other half boarded the ship again and sailed it to the UK. This is the same event that involved the sinking of the HMS Jervis Bay. It’s a very interesting story and it even had a war-time movie made about it. Thank you for touching on the topic of the Merchant Marine!
The first person killed in my home town of Owen Sound Ontario was on Jervis Bay and there is a small park near the cenotaph named after the ship but no writings to explain the significance of the park's name. I think a lot of people don't appreciate what the park represents.
Wow you're young. My adopted father, (not grand or great grand) joined up with the US Merchant Marines in '42 at the age of 15. He was a tall and big boy, and got by with his only living relative's (an Aunt) written permission stating he was 17. He served in the pacific theatre aboard the SS Lane Victory as a deckhand, but became the surgeons 'nurse' unofficially, as he studied medicine on the side. I believe his old ship is on display in southern California still? He was one of the lucky ones as many US merchant Marines had high causality rates and ships sunk. Went on the join the Navy in late '44 for the last year of the war and trained as a Corpsman with the Marines. He survived the hellholes of Okinawa and Iwo Jima, with more valour decorations then I ever earned in my tours in Iraq/Afghanistan. Jumping ahead, he stayed in the Navy afterwards, switched to the Army during the Korean War, stayed in after that and switched to the Air Force during the Vietnam War. He retired after that. Basically 1 civilian and 3 military armed forces. Not bad for 30+ year career. Sadly, he passed away three years ago, but that was a man. They don't make them like that anymore. A young kid just finding his way through life and death. Something some modern adults, let alone those who are 15, would be unable to shoulder. Wars, through most of the 20th century would do that. Glad your great grandfather survived his ships sinking. That's a hard loss for most, regardless.
The film ‘San Demetrio London’ tells this story albeit with some artistic licence. One sad fact about the ship is that the Second Officer Arthur G. Hawkins who reboarded the ship and sailed her home with a skeleton crew) was presented with the ships company flag as a tribute to his bravery. Sadly he was signed up to join another ship sailing from Bristol and he left the flag in its presentation case and his belongings with the ships agent while he had a last night out in the city. That night there was an air raid and he was never seen again. The flag stayed in the agents offices for many years before finally being presented to the Eagle Oil Co. , the ships owners.
Some years back, I knew a gentleman who had been a merchant seaman in the late 30's on a US flagged vessel. After his first engagement with a u-boat, he enlisted in the US Navy. He said he figured at least there he could shoot back.
Merchant men are some of the most unsung hero's of WW2 in my opinion. If those massive amounts of supplies don't get from North America and the rest of the World to the fighting locations then the war can not be won. My Grand Uncle (Grandfathers brother on my Mom's side) was a Merchant Marine in the US during WW2. The recent Tom Hanks movie called Greyhound was a great movie and example of the danger the merchant ships encountered during the war. It also showed how the US, British and Canadian Navies worked together in convoy defense.
Thank you Vinny. I appreciate you sharing about your Grand Uncle. All these testimonials I'm reading in the comments remind me how close we still are to this war.
Over a period of about 4 years, I drank coffee at the local Waffle House with an old man that was a Merchant Marine for 10 years. WW2 fell right in the middle of this decade of service. Ray Lacks was fished from the icy waters of the North Atlantic the first time in 1939. Before it was over, he would be forced to swim twice more. I could write a small novel about our conversations. He finally passed and has been sorely missed. His obituary was AWESOME. He was one of many heroes that I had the privilege to work and socialize with. They truly WERE the greatest generation.
Todia Think I will Think of your Friend Ray Lacks this week when I have my morning Coffee . My Brother worked for a Short time for a Taxidermist who was a Merchant Seaman . He was from Poland and was sunk more than once . After one Rescue He ended up in Canada and then moved to the States . Who knows what He saw and Lived thru ? I am happy that Jack passed on his Information to You .
Mr. Ray Lacks was very lucky to have been picked up each time. Oftentimes ships and escorts in convoys did not stop to pick up survivors from a sinking/sunk merchant ship for fear they would be torpedoed themselves.
I worked briefly on US ships back in the 60s. There were several crew who worked as Mariners during WWII, with a few having ships sunk while they were aboard. Some experienced multiple sinkings. A common refrain was that people both during the war and after seemed to consider Mariners as either Draft dodgers or simply money seekers. However, these old salts said Mariners frequently quit the Merchant Marine and joined the military as it was deemed safer. Great video, as always, by Indie and the gang.
I knew a Frenchman who served on tankers in WW2. Two were sunk and he went out a third time - and wasn't sunk again, he survived the war. He was pretty deaf, though, one ship's suction dragged him under so far his eardrums were damaged. Sunk twice, going out again - I couldn't do it. Idk if any French merchant ships sailed for the Free French, but expect he served on British or American ships. He was a lucky survivor - he married a young heiress. She was heir to a share of the Pell family fortune, had a few million for herself, which was good money in the 1960s.
As for the Greek merchant fleet, it lost 77% of its ships and 73% of its tonnage, which are 975 lost ships (52 were passenger ships, 372 cargo ships and 551 sailboats). Most were lost in Atlantic from German u-boats. 2.500-3.000 sailors in Greek ships lost their lives
Was waiting for such a comment. To add, Greece is one of the few countries that awarded a medal for service on the merchant navy, 1940-45 (including Greek navy on escort duties)
My Great Uncle , John Picken, was on the Arctic convoys and amazingly survived being torpedoed twice. Though on the second occasion he lost a leg to frostbite. He received some sort of extra pension because of the wound but used to mock the periodical medicals he had to attend. " Tae see if it's grawn back". I think he got taken to the USSR after the war as well. He was some boy. Thanks for the video. It's hard to comprehend what they went through.
I had a friend who was a merchant marine on a supply ship at Okinawa. The kamakazes were frightening. After the war he and a few friends bought a small sail ship and went to Tahiti. Hearing of his experience first hand led me to study WW-2 and to this channel.
US Merchant Marines were the crew of choice for ships carrying munitions and fuel because US Merchant Marines were trained to do every job on the ship and a ship crewed by US Merchant Marines only needed a fraction of the normal crew for that ship.
These merchant mariners often tend to be the ones that seem to be overlooked at times compared to more recognizable or more glamorous front line roles during the war. Logistics of supply lines often seem to be one area that is taken for granted until it breaks down badly enough that the front line stalls due to lack of food or ammunition. Without them, Britain might not have lasted early on in the war. Salute to the bravery of these men when faced with the dangers of the treacherous seas!
Granted I'm being fussy, and saying it to you as yours is top post doing it, sort of, ; ), but the correct term is "a merchant mariner" . I have to think "a merchant marine" is a guy in the Marines, a jar head, with a side business. So it is a Merchant Mariner, singular, Merchant Mainers, plural and the Merchant Marine as the collective form, or the merchant navy, but only if you are a Brit. The old chief mate is coming out in me. Sorry : )
@@travelertime4382 No worries, I learnt something new today. I’m not from the merchant marine or navy so I may be less familiar with the proper terms to use in this regard. I will change it to the correct term accordingly. Thank you for highlighting it!
@@gunman47 No worries, mariners are more tolerant of landsmen than the other way around. I've seen signs saying "dogs and sailors, keep off the grass". No joke.
Indy, in the first couple of minutes there, you described my grandfather's (probable) fate. Able Seaman Edward Smart, SS Rubislaw, of Aberdeen, carrying building materials, struck a mine in the Thames Estuary, 28th November, 1939. My Great-Uncle (CPO John Christie), my grandfather's cousin, served with the Merchant Navy throughout the War and became a role model for me.
I was a US naval officer up until a few years ago, and I heavily respect anyone who worked on these ships. It's a hard life and to have the threat of being sunk at any time added on to it is no joke.
My great uncle was a merchant man, he was a teenager on his first voyage when a u-boat sunk his ship but thankfully he survived, he was one of three survivors. He went on to survive a further two sinkings over the war, but the experiences left him so mentally disturbed that he spent the rest of his life in care. I only found out about him after his death as the family didn't like to mention it too much, apparently he'd often wake up screaming, having had nightmares of seeing his shipmates die. Another of my great uncles would die as a merchantman. My family were lead to believe by the British government he died in a convoy to Britain from Canada, but my sister did some investigating and found that this was a lie, in order to deceive any German spies I suppose, he actually died off the coast of South Africa taking Tungsten from Argentina, the merchant ship was not in a convoy.
The most overlooked contributions of mariners in WWII are those of the Italian merchant fleet. These sailors kept the supplies flowing to Africa despite horrendous casualties that far surpassed that of any other merchant fleet for nearly three years. By the time Italy collapsed in September 1943, virtually every Italian tanker and large merchant ship had been lost at sea or sunk in harbor.
I remember reading in Brandon Stokesbury's book "A Short History of World War II" during the Battle of the Atlantic section, that what a ship carried affected how the crew actually slept. Iron Ore - the crew slept on the deck because they only had a few seconds to abandon ship General cargo - the crew slept in their bunks but stayed dressed and left the door open Aviation fuel - they closed the door, changed out of their clothes and got a fully nights sleep because if the ship was torpedoed they had no chance of surviving
I remember as a boy in the 1970s in the waterfront city of Vancouver (before it became all bougie), I'd meet old men who had been in the merchant marine. Largely forgotten by society and usually poor. It wasn't until the 1990s before Canada really recognized their efforts and gave them better pensions and medals. Alas, most were dead by then. “Twilight and evening bell, And after that the dark! And may there be no sadness of farewell, when I embark.”
Despite having the highest casualty rate in the first six months of the war, it would take over 40 years (1988) before American Merchant Mariners would receive VA benefits, when most of these men were in their 60s. From what I've read, even now none of the major veteran groups will accept them as members. If you want to watch a couple of really good movies about the British Merchant Marines in WWII, I recommend the true life adventure "San Demetrio London" (1943) and the documdrama "Western Approaches" (1944).
It also raises interesting questions about the classification of people working in factories producing war materiel or other logistical roles. The concept of total war and how easily that involves civilians and industry. After all, when a factory starts to be considered a valid military target for a bombing raid how do we justify not considering the workers who would be killed as military personnel? Where do we draw the lines between combatant and non-combatant?
@@Belgand Each country handles it differently. And let's not forget the refugees. One of my great aunts received a $5000 stipend from the West German government many years after the war because the Nazis had confiscated her business. This money did not come close to compensating her, but on the other hand, another relative received the same amount - and he never owned anything to begin with. Go figure.
It's almost impossible to qualify for those very limited benefits making the 1988 bill a joke. The vast majority of those who served got nothing before they passed.
Appreciate this. My grandfather was Merchant Navy and ran the northern routes to Russia. He died when I was too young to ask him anything about it, as well as Alzheimers unfortunately meaning his mind was in no position to answer in his later days.
The Murmansk and Malta route were really hellish. Coastal guns, submarines, air attacks, severe weather freezing to death (Murmansk) or be burned to death (tankers Malta) Logistics is rarly mentioned in war but the most important.
My calculus teacher at college was a veteran of the Murmansk run. His ship was sunk by aircraft. When he jumped off the ship he landed on a piece of wood and broke his leg. The hospital in Archangelsk didn't set it correctly so he had a limp for the rest of his life. Of course, going to a maritime school, a lot of our instructors were merchant mariners during the WWII, Korea or Viet Nam.
Thank You Heaps for this episode. Full respect to the Merchant Navy, often forgotten yet the losses of ships and lives were high. My maternal Grandmother ('Nan') grew up in a Harbourside suburb of Sydney with merchant sailors, members of the Royal Australian Navy, shipbuilders and wharfies (dock workers). Everyone knew at least one person who was lost in their suburb due to World War II service, which was more of a true community then.
I used to talk to old merchant mariners who were teaching at Mass Maritime in the 90's, and they all said the worst part was that people viewed them as cowards.
Yes, exactly what I was told by several WWII Mariners, some of whom survived multiple sinkings. They emphasized that it was common for Mariners to quit and enlist in the military as it was deemed safer.
@@Coffeeguyzz they were right. According to the most recent figures I’ve seen, 1 out of every 23 men who served in the US Merchant Marine during WWII died. The nearest Armed Force to that figure was the Marines, which suffered the loss of 1 out of every 27.
@@tomlienert882 The 8th Air Force in England paid the highest price on the American side. About 26,000 killed for about 350,000 in service. Or 1 in 14. If you just include the air crews it was 26,000 for 210,000 or about 1 in 8. Not to diminish the service and sacrifice of any, but flying over Europe from England was a grim endeavor indeed. As dangerous and harrowing as it was to be a Merchant Mariner, or 8th AF air crew, or Marine, Kriegsmarine U-boat losses were the worst of the war. About 70% of sailors in U-boats died in them. They may have been the enemy from our standpoint, but their courage cannot be denied.
@@steveread6843 American submariners also had the highest casualty rate among US servicemen - about one in five died. The fate of most of them wasn't known until after the war, when Japanese records could be examined - during the war they'd just leave on patrol and never be heard from again and eventually declared missing and presumed lost. It must have been absolute hell on their families.
My Dad served his time at Camell Lairds Birkenhead, he should have gone out with the Thetis on her sea trials but was deemed too young. He went straight from Camell to work as an engineer on the SS Duchess of Bedford. It was the last big ship out of Singapore and was credited with sinking a U Boat. He never spoke about his time in the war but was scarred by the Thetis and it haunted his later years as his dementia took hold. Thank you for devoting an episode to this, and helping to remember all those special people.
Thanks for sharing about your Dad. It's quite humbling to read so many testimonials here in the comments about our viewers' families serving at the time. Never forget
Most of the crew only signed on for the trip out and back,and were discharged on reaching home port.The time could vary from weeks to a year or more.A lot of convoys only had a couple of corvettes and an armed trawler as escorts.My father was on a convoy when the fleet from Gibraltar went by to intercept the Bismarck and he quoted the skipper saying "By God there is a navy after all".
My maternal Grand-father was a merchant marine in WW2. He worked in the engine room. And he said what they would do is when the danger of a U-boat attack was high, none of them were down with the engines if they didn't have to be. They'd draw lots every 15-30 minutes for who would go down and check on the status of the machinery. While the rest of them were in the passage ways and gang ways above. He did become a casualty. Not from being attacked, but from disease. He caught Malaria, probably on a run from India. As he was put off his ship in Alexandria. And spent weeks in a hospital there. He ended up with a strong dislike of goat cheese from that. As he'd always say that's all they fed him in the hospital.
My grandfather was a merchant marine on a Greek ship during world war 2. When hostilities broke out they were out on the Atlantic traveling to Argentina. Most of the crew decided to not get back on the old ship after they docked. He then moved to Chile and started a family.
My great uncle was in the British Merchant Navy all his life, and had two ships blown from under him during the war; and a distant cousin was killed when his merchant ship was sunk off Scotland at the end of 1939. As with pandemics, you suddenly realise who the real keyworkers are when war rolls over you. Thanks for this, guys.
my great grandfather served on a dutch merchant ship in the beginning of the war, but in 1940 his ship got hit by a torpedo from a u-boat. apparently the ship sunk within 2 minutes with all hands. he was still young and had a 3 year old child witch was my grandmother.
My uncle was in the USN and served on merchant ships as an armed guard. In January 1943, his ship was steaming in the Caribbean when it was torpedoed. The ship was not in convoy, so the u-boot surfaced and greeted the crew who abandoned ship. The Germans questioned the captain about what they were carrying and where they were going. After the skipper lied about these queries, the U-boot made sure their lifeboat had ample provisions and left. After 5 days on the high seas, the lifeboat made land in Venezuela.
My father in law was a Merchant Marine, loved the sea and sailing until the day he passed, my father was on a tanker in the Pacific, it was traveling light, he watched a torpedo go under the bow, next one hit a water hold next to a fuel hold. They limped back to port. I'm glad he made it, he had not met my mother yet.
My Father was on a tanker, too, USS Agawam. He spent 3 years in the Pacific delivering fuel, primarily avgas, to the islands taken by the Marines as they progressed toward Japan. He passed away when I was 24 and I never really talked with him about his service. Wish I could now.
My uncle joined the US merchant marine in ‘42 when the us was in the war. He tried to join the Navy but didn’t qualify. The merchant marine were not so picky. He says his first trip to Mermansk was the worst; he witnessed several other ships in his convoy sunk by u-boat torpedos.
My father served in the US Merchant Marine in WW2, aboard the Liberty Ship Winfred L. Smith. US Navy also rejected him for having perforated eardrums. Merchant marine was glad to have him. He was at Operation Torch, the battle of the North Atlantic, Murmansk run several times, and helped with restoration of the harbor at Cherbourg (he was a welder by trade) after the Germans wrecked it. Very proud of him and his service. Sadly, the Merchant Marine did not receive GI Bill benefits.
@@Conn30Mtenor My uncle was a Canadian Navy officer on loan to the Norwegians. All ships had to have English speaking radio guys, but most of the time they were under radio SILENCE. he thought that was hilarious. He ran bunker fuel to Murmansk. And survived the war.
Another large merchant fleet during the war was the Norwegian Notraship (Norwegian Shipping and Trade Mission). It was established in London in april 1940 and operated some 1000 vessels. Notraship made a serious contribution to the Allied war effort.
I met a merchant mariner one time, he was a carpenter. I was suffering from malaria and I was in the army as well! So they stuck me in a hospital with this guy who mid 90's who was dying from two or three types of cancer, and he was putting a Ship in to a bottle. While having a temperature of a 104 he told me stories of sailing from Iceland to Marco in peace time! Being a jungle fighter in the Philippines, and was living off three pensions and enjoying the sweet life in his mid 80's and he was 95 or 96 years old when we crossed paths! Telling me those stories while having malaria and watching him put a Spanish schooner in a bottle was a jaw dropping experience! The History he had would have filled up to an honor episode for you guys I still remember a couple of stories!
Had an uncle that was in the merchant marine. On his first voyage out of the Bay Area to the Philippines on a refrigerator ship, it was supposed to be a 3 or 4 week trip. Go to the Philippines, drop off food supplies and return. The war ended on the way there and he spent the next year and a half in the So. Pacific resupplying bases, ships at sea and small atolls. He had the time of his life. Traded food for Japanese War souvenirs. He had duffle bags full of swords, rifles, flags and skulls in his garage.
@@rayjfroehlich84 yeah the Americans in the pacific were known to desecrate the corpses of the Japanese (and sometimes just random graves…) and make memorabilia out of them. A Japanese skull was even on the Front page of a magazine in the US (which was gold for the anti-American propaganda in Japan) and apparently Roosevelt got gifted a letter opener made out of a femur. Japanese heads were also often displayed on spikes or hang from trees to show the Japanese soldiers what awaited them and especially the Marines showed no mercy to surrendering or wounded Japanese soldiers (as also famously portrayed in letters from Iwojima). The pacific war was absolutely fucked up and there is also your reason why American war movies more often portray the European war
The only battle that I really worried about, was the battle of the atlantic (Paraphrasing --) - Churchill. The contribution of the Merchant Navy to liberty and freedom is so gigantic, and so generally not remembered - well done for making the episodes. The northern convoys to supply the Russians were utterly brutal in all aspects.
Something else usually overlooked about the merchant marine service in those days. A ship had ONE master, they did not have much of a code of laws or navy regulations to protect the captain and crew. Sometimes captains would go so far as to have someone flogged at his own personal discretion. There is even an old story of a man placing limburger cheese inside a lamp, supposedly they were going to toss the guy overboard if they caught him.
Remembering my Great Uncle: William Dawson 4th Eng Officer on the S.S. Rosalia (Netherlands) - although he was from Northumberland. killed on the 28 July 1943 aged 33 when his ship (an oil tanker) was torpedoed off the coast of Caracus by U-615 Often wondered what a lad from a mining village in England was doing there and how it was for him.
Excellent! My grand father was in the merchant marines. His ship was going to be filled with aviation fuel but at the last minute oil was loaded instead. His ship was torpedoed in the bow. He said if the aviation fuel was there the ship would have blown up. The captain called down to him in the engine room and ordered full ahead, raising the hole out of the water enough to save the ship. He was awarded a medal but we have no idea where it ever went :(
My grandfather sailed for Sunoco in WWII. He convinced his half-brother to join up. During Convoy HX-231, the M/S Sun Oil ran into engine problems and U-530 sunk the straggling Merchant Ship. The Sun Oil sank so fast that all hands were lost, including my grandfather's half-brother who was a wiper on that ship. The sacrifices of our Merchant Mariners is often forgotten, so thank you for this video.
I highly recommend the novel serie "a hero of sea" by Norwegian author Jon Michelet. He wanted to give the war sailors the recognition they deserved and in 2012 the first out of six book in his series was published. The series follow a young Norwegian sailor from just before the war starts and we follow him all the way through the war. I have read it twice and it is a fantastic read even for people that aren't interested in history and world war 2.
@@WorldWarTwo no problem :) A bit of context, Michelet him self had been a sailor as young man and later he became one of the most repected authurs in Norway. He had many times talked publicky about the unjustice the Norwegian war sailor was meet with when they got home. He though this was so important that finished the last book in this serie on his death bed during the winter of 2018.
@@dougmphilly I found several references to the English titals of the novels but Im not able to find any place where they sell English translations or even a list off his novels that are translated to other languages. So in short I don't know, they should have been translated.
My Dad joined the Merchant Marines in summer 1942 after being rejected for military service due to Asthma. He saw more action than many military members did and was wounded by shrapnel during D-Day when his Liberty Ship, the SS Lyman Hall was hit. And he never spoke of it. I had to find out from my Uncle. I read awhile ago that when you look at the overall Navy, Army, and Merchant Marines that the latter had the highest fatality rate @4%. Now there were sub-units of the other services that had worse (8th Air Force comes to mind) but overall the Merchant Seaman had the greatest risk of loss of life. After the war my Dad continued serving eventually holding a Chief Mate's ticket (just below the Captain). He retired in the mid-70's.
I had never really realized how about important merchant ships were as well as the logistics of supply lines that were needed for each belligerent in WW2. Thank you WW2 team for shedding light on this subject!
Not just in WWII. Google supply chain hold ups, in today's news. Then, remembering that the Ukraine exports huge amounts of wheat and food oil, and ask yourself why Putin wants to control their ports.
Well, riflemen might win firefights, artillery might win battles, but logistics determines campaigns and war. Without bullets, food or warm socks, there are no fighting.
My great-grandfather was a First World War veteran of the Somme and a Chief Engineer for Cunard/White Star aboard the MV Georgic during the war. He helped to rebuild its engines in Mumbai after its attack and grounding, helping to return it to service by 1944. Thank you for shedding light on this oft-overlooked portion of WWII.
Thanks for this episode Indy. My great grandfather was a donkey man on the Empire Impala. He went down with the ship when it was torpedoed by U591 on the 11th March 1943. The ship had stopped to pick up survivors from the Egyptian. Never forget.
No torpedo bulges, no hull compartmentalization, no sonar, no air cover, slow speed, holds full of flammable/explosives, no damage control stations or training. Balls of steel.✅
Thank you for going into more depth on these mostly unsung heroes of WWII! My Dad's father was an american merchant marine sailor during the war and ended up in the Pacific theatre.
Ah, great stuff. Quality content from the WW2 guys again! Logistics are the often neglected part of warfare, if you can't get it there it can't happen.
My grandfather served on the Arizona during the 1930s. After the he left the Navy but before Pearl Harbor he was in a motorcycle accident where he lost his middle toe. The Navy wouldn't take him back but the army would. He liked the high seas so he went into the Merchant Marines and served as first mate. I wish I knew what ship he was on.
Thank you for highlighting these brave people. My Dad is 99 and had signed on as a cabin boy in 1937. He was in the war from 1939 and when it was over the company said he still had to finish his contract.
"Listen mate, you're asking me to volunteer to serve in the Merchant Marine, a service whom half of which die in. Why would I bloody well do that?" "We'll pay you good." "FECKIN' HELL, I'M IN!"
When I was a teen, we had an old WWII MM sailor working for us. I knew they had a horrible time in the convoys. He was a short, spry man, with a nice personality. One time I asked him how many ships he had shot out of under him. I remember he looked at me, and said ‘six’. I said WOW and that was the entire conversation that day.
it was always a crap shoot. My uncle was in the Naval Armed Guard (naval crews assigned to merchant ships as gunners and signalmen) and made five Atlantic crossings and several other voyages, once as far as India, and never had his ship torpedoed or a man in their crews killed. He certainly saw other ships get sunk, though. He said like many young men he knew the danger but always figured it would happen to someone else. He just died a little more than a year ago, the last WW2 vet in his VA retirement home. He said at the time he resented the merchant marine crewmen getting paid much more for the same job, but after the war he felt bad that they were denied veterans' benefits since they all faced exactly the same danger.
The US monument to the Merchant Marine is in Battery Park, in Manhattan. I use to sit by it regularly and eat lunch. It is three seaman on a sinking boat.
I have read of a rivalry between Merchant sailors and regular USN sailors. Naval personnel looked down on Merchant sailors due to them making higher pay. "They are only doing it for the money..." In the Atlantic the chances of being were higher for Merchants. The Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago has an excellent exhibit along with a U boat. The numbers of merchant ships sunk in the Atlantic was just devastating. There was some recognition in the '80s or '90's regarding the Merchant Marines sacrifices during WWII. Fair Winds and Following Seas!
Thanks for that. My old man signed up for his first voyage aged 14 in February 1941 aboard The Wayfarer, as a scullion or pantry boy on The North Atlantic. He served throughout the war and afterwards repatriating POW's, war brides and refugees. I could never really figure out why he'd volunteered because the war would have been almost over by the time he'd have been conscripted. Mind you his mum had lost three of her brothers in the trenches, two on the first day of The Somme, and his dad had been wounded at Mons and gassed later, so maybe it's not too difficult. Your film fills in many blanks and pays homage to boys like me dad who must have been shitting themselves, but as he'd always say to me< I was either too busy or tired to notice.
Great episode. I had the blessed pleasure of having a former merchant marine as a neighbor many years ago. I've met few people who were so happy to just be alive. Is sunny, friendly personality was welcome anytime. He also for many years had a Big Band music radio show that, I believe, was picked up by several stations around the country. It helped bond a great many American WWII vets in this community of music. He never talked about what we saw or experienced. He simply reveled in the now.
I knew a fellow named Newhouse who came from Jersey. He said that the women he knew (in England, Jersey was occupied by the Germans) would ask for Onions and Jerky then the next time they would ask for sugar and cotton cloth then silk stockings and canned fruit. I guess they were out of everything in England. His ship (Monmouth, 10,000 tons) was full of wood so it didn't sink when it was hit by a torpedo. One time his ship was packed with explosives and there was two crates secured on deck. The Mate told him that the crates contained money. Newhouse didn't believe him so the Mate pried off a board and took out a sack and showed him the silver coins. Not a very safe way to move their money, but the Bank fellows were there to take their crates when they docked.
My grandad was in the British royal merchant navy... Got got injured due to a sub attack, had a wounded leg for the rest of his life but lived a good one. He was treated in a Canadian hospital and came back home to South Wales.
Thanks for mentioning this topic. Logistics of war - merchant shipping, truck driving and people who perform these duties - deserve much, MUCH more attention than they ger.
dad was a merchant mariner in both theaters. thank you so much for this episode. he later turned his experience in the merchant marine to rise to tanker captain for gulf oil. he said that his experiences at sea during ww2 made him an effective captain. one thing that stood out that he said that you mentioned was that for a crew to get stuff done, it had to put aside prejudices and pettiness. all the crews he was on was multi national, different faith and a rainbow of races. it was live and let live except if you violated a vital safety procedure or you exposed the ship to enemy attack. thus, when dad rose to tanker captain, he was known as a safety first captain and he never gave anyone a second chance if they put the ship in danger whether they be a 30 year veteran or a 30 day newbie.
doug, thank you for sharing about your dad's experiences during the war. Amazing to hear those individual perspectives of how things were handled on-ship.
Many years ago I worked with a man who had served as marine engineer on merchant ships during WWII. Twice sunk and twice rescued, he was not only a brilliant engineer but the finest man I ever knew. RIP Jack Parkinson. You will never be forgotten.
Guy I knew, now deceased, was a merchant seaman and said he was green as grass when he and a buddy were assigned to a freighter. While crossing the Atlantic, they thought they'd make a plan "just in case" a torpedo struck their ship. One of the old seamen noticed them scouting out the ship, asked, "What are you doing?" "If we get torpedoed, we want to be in a good place to escape." Old guy: "Did you notice how far away all the other ships are keeping from us?" "No." OG: "Our holds are full of ammo...bombs, shells, all kind of explosives...if a torpedo hits us, there won't be anything to escape from." My man said, "I started learning to relax after that."
My father was a WWII US Merchant Marine before, during and after WWII. He was first shot at in Aug. 1941. He got sunk in May 1942. Because a Third Mate in Jan. 1943. He made Master in the summer of 1945 at the age of 24. They finally gave them veteran status in the late 1980's.
My great grandfather was in the Merchant Marine. From Thanksgiving of 42, all the way till the end. One of the ships he was on, the Robert Battey, ran around in the Phillipines.
Totally fantastic to hear this from an American, so well-researched, and detailing the terrible perils our Merchant Navy went through (before we get to the equally impressive story of the US Merchant /service during the war). Thank you!!!
Thank you for this episode. Those guys on the merchant ships were vital to the war effort, but get little praise for their heroic efforts and great sacrifices. Also note that the US was building two Liberty Ships a WEEK to provide that transport, an unbelievable accomplishment. Old movies like 'Action In The North Atlantic' are fun to watch today, but really portray the men aboard those Liberty Ships in a heroic light.
Someone should mention the merchant giant called "Greece" owning a large part of the global merchant tonnage. The Greek fleet contributed in the war cause.
My grandfather was a part of the merchant marines and he always felt he didn’t deserve the honors of the other branches of the military. But with such a high casualty rate all of them were heroes!
I've heard that the US Merchant Marine suffered the highest percentage of US casualties until the invasion of Okinawa. If you survive the explosion, the fire, and avoid drowning, there is death from exposure, as horrible a death as any. At the Museum of Science and Industry, in Chicago (one of the great museum in the world), they have a captured U-boat. The line to the U-boat winds through an exhibit of US Merchant Marine losses. It is staggering, and definitely hardens your heart to the losses of the Kriegsmarine. Perhaps this is unfair, but it underlines the stupidity and obscenity of war.
I don't know if this helps with the percentage of casualties but the death toll for each allied merchant navy are as follows UK 🇬🇧 30,248 US 🇺🇸 9,521 CAN 🇨🇦 1,600 AUS 🇦🇺 386 NZ 🇳🇿 140
Be glad that Admiral Donitz never received the number of U-boats he said he needed between 1939 and 1941 when, maybe, the U-boats could have won the battle of the Atlantic.
One of my first professors at a US maritime academy was one of those sailors. With only 90 days of training he served as a ships officer during the war on the Murmansk run and continued working at sea for decades. He retired from teaching relatively recently in his 90s.
My dad sailed in the merchant marines throughout the war, Pacific and Atlantic. The stories I could tell you would blow your mind. Simply amazing. p.s. He was a wonderful man.
My great-grandfather was a merchant marine, and I remember him telling me about being on an old cargo ship en route to Normandy around D-Day and not finding out the ship he was on was full of explosives until he asked an officer midway across the Atlantic. Maybe not as wild as some other stories, but just the thought of being on what was effectively a massive bomb in the middle of a wartime ocean is something that I'm glad I never had to live through.
On the bright side, on a ship like that the chance of surviving a torpedoing to be marooned at sea and dying slowly from exposure was pretty much nil. (The not so bright side is, of course, pretty obvious.)
My grandad's brother (granduncle?) sailed for the british merchant fleet. He was torpedoed 7 times, 6 of them the ship sank. He survived the war but was not the same man that came home.
The old boy I used to live next door to was sunk 3 times. I thought that was a bit much, but 6 times...! My granddad was RN in both wars, served at Jutland in WW1, and in the Arctic in WW2, and he wouldn't have swapped places with the Merchant Navy.
My father served both in the UK merchant marine, and later was moved to royal navy reserve. Dad would not talk much about the war, I had to go to my uncles for that, but I recall a few things worth sharing. First was, as an engine room officer, he and his men were not in the safest spot. The ship would be made water tight when going into battle, that meant they had few ways to escape - mostly via the smoke stack (try holding your breath or seeing with all the smoke). Another was a large scar on his forehead that became visible when he became bald later. That was from a crazed stoker who hit him with a shovel trying to escape. It was the only time he had to pull his pistol on a sailor. Finally, and he did not know it until after the war, but he actually saw his brother's ship hit by torpedoes and sunk in the Med. He survived but spent 3 days in the water before picked up. Thank you for your show, I really enjoy it.
Thanks for those details about your family's service, William. Every account like yours brings our channel a level of detail that isn't possible any other way. I appreciate you sharing their memory here
I knew a man in Alaska, Norwegian by birth, who sailed with the Free Norwegian Merchant Marine. He was at sea when Norway fell and stayed with his ship. He spent most of the war sailing on convoy routes in the Pacific. He married an Australian woman after the war. They opened a nice road house in Delta Junction, Alaska. I enjoyed eating there and listening to their stories.
Related to this topic: recommend the 1943, Humphrey Bogart film, "Action In The North Atlantic." The film depicts the lives and duties of a group of U.S. Merchant Marines during WWII. The film was praised, at the time, as being so accurate that the real U.S. Merchant Marine Academy adopted the film as part of its educational film library.
There are so many reasons why the phrase : "Worse things happen at sea" became common currency. I remember talking to a man who had sailed on Liberty shops- he said they were forever drilling big holes to stop the cracks from extending and leading to structural problems. I had known him for a while before his WW2 history was mentioned and I wish I had talked to him more about these experiences. He was a real character. RIP Dickie.
Having worked a bit in the shipping (as in transportation of good) industry, it always amazes me to see old films showing the world before the pallet. Literal game changer. Actually I think it was invented during WW2; it could be a very niche, but very interesting special episode!
Great vlog as always! DO not forget the Norwegians. We had the largest merchant marine after the british. I think also we had a third of all tanker vessels. Make an episode about that? Imagine to sign on late 1939 early 1940 most of the sailors from Norway did not see the shores of the mother land until the summer of 1945! If their ships was in service for the US in the pasific they did not come home until 1946… Many young boys escaped from Norway, via the UK to the US and then to Little Norway in Canada to become pilots. Some also via Sweden, Russia and then to Canada. Btw my first time on a jump seat in the cockpit was with a WW 2 pilot. This was in 1979. The captain had flown for BOAC after the war and was in chief pilot of their South American ops. He lost his job at the age of 26 due to heavy drinking. Almost normal among pilots and sailors. Then he got a job with Scandinavian Airlines System (SAS) Same old story… lost his job once again. Then his wife got him a job with Braathens S.A.F.E. that he had stop drinking. He kept his promise and his job. Retired from flying in 1981. Him and his wife was still playing golf when they both was over 90 yrs old! My fist jump seat was on a 737-200. My dad said to me «Do not speak unless spoken to» I remember it like it was yesterday. Lol! Sorry for the comment. Yes, I ended up working for the airline. As ground staff.
Back in the 1970's, one of my grade school teacher's husband was a Canadian merchant mariner. He told us that he got the best sleep when carrying munitions - if you got hit, you would never know it. He didn't sleep well when carrying cargoes of vehicles steel or other heavy bulk goods since the ship, if hit, would sink before you could get out of your hammock. He didn't talk much about tankers. Our teacher said he still had nightmares from trying to pull men form the flaming oil. Apart from purely war related materials, both my parents in the UK and even more so my in-laws on Malta depended on food and supplies brought over by merchant mariners. I can never forget that without them, I and my kids would likely not exist today.
My dad was a merchant marine during WW 2. He was lucky, he only took one round trip to Hawaii from San Francisco on a fuel tanker in 1944. He was lucky in that Japanese subs did not consistently attack merchant ships (not too smart). He told me they made the trip solo without escort! That was his only trip, after that he was drafted into the war and spent the rest of the war on Adak in the Aleutians as a signal corp man.
My grandfather was in the Merchant Marine during WWII - oil tankers mostly from what I understand. AFAIK his ships were never sunk, but he didn't talk much about it. He did tell us a story about how he once had to shoot a German who came at him with a knife while in port.
My grandfather and 16 year old uncle were crewmen on the Esso Boston when it was torpedoed and sunk by the U-130 in April 1942. All survived. Early in my own sailing career I worked with many former WW2 merchant sailors. One Engineer had been on the Texaco Tanker “Connecticut” when it was sunk by the German Raider “Michael”, he was picked up and handed off to the Japanese as a POW.
Another great one Indy and team. Coming from a long line of merchant sailors, mostly engineers, I really loved this one. Having relatives who were in the Dutch merchant navy during ww 1 and ww 2, and being probably the last of my family still sailing, it is an interesting subject, thanks for the special.
Thanks for watching with us @The Bored Traveller. It's staggering how many people have shared their familial connections to the C20th merchant navies with us since this episode came out. For so many people this was their experience of the world wars, aboard a merchant ship rather than a battlefield. We're really glad you enjoyed the episode
What a coincidence! I just did a research paper on the Merchant Mariners! It was primarily on the U.S. Merchant Mariners who sailed during the Battle of the Atlantic, not the British Merchant Marine in which this video focuses more on. But like Indy said, a lot of the experiences were universal. One source I found was an interview from a Navy Armed Guard aboard a merchant ship which sunk and he and some other Merchant Mariners were stuck on a raft for 83 days!! Some of those on the raft passed away unfortunately. (some of the ships that were armed had sailors from the Navy onboard because they were trained to use the guns) I had never heard of them before trying to figure out what to do a paper on, but these men served their country just like other veterans but they don’t get the recognition like they should.
Thanks for this video. my great grandfather on my mother's side served the merchant navy during world war 2 he was Guyanese he was on the Atlantic route from the UK to Canada when he got to Canada they didn't have any warm clothes so they had to get them from the Red Cross, one night he was out in the town at the pub and he missed his recall and the ship left without him, he found out later that the ship he was meant to be on was sunk by a U boat
My aunt's dad was aboard a U.S. Navy convoy escort ship during WW2. He told me horror stories of merchant ships getting torpedoed and of trying to rescue merchant sailors from the cold waters... also of men trying to swim through or under the burning oil.
My late partner's old dad was in the merchant marine. A chief engineer, who worked the arctic convoys. He hardly ever spoke about it, but I can't imagine how stressful it was for him, nor the quiet courage it called for & not just from him; he had a family & his wife must have gone through horribly worrying times too.
My grandfather served in the Merchant Navy and his ship was torpedoed in 1942, losing 13 crew and one gunner. He was recued by a Canadian corvette and landed in the Azores. Beyond that, his service was very fortunate and he had many stories to tell about the places he saw. At school I did some research and learnt that one month later the U-boat that sank his ship went down with all 46 crew. My grandfather was saddened by this, remarking "the sea is a dangerous enough place without men trying to kill each other".
@Peter thanks for sharing your grandfather's story with us. In our Out Of The Foxholes episode where we talked about those taken prisoner by German commerce raiders we found some accounts of camaraderie between men on opposite sides at sea as they recognised the dangers and hardships they shared in common as mariners, it is really interesting to hear something similar from your grandfather's perspective.
My uncle Victor was a merchant marine his whole working life, all through World War II, He retired in the 1970s. When I asked him if he was ever torpedoed, he said, "No, but i saw torpedos in the water! I suppose that was good enough for him. I asked him how many ports he sailed to. He just said, "All of them." He was my mothers youngest brother.
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Grizzly, dangerous, and hard work - it's not a job that can be done on your laptop from home or a café. What would make you join the Merchant Navy?
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My grandfather was a Merchant Marine. I never really asked "why did you choose this?" because at the time I didn't really understand the importance of their job.
My grandfathers younger brother joined because he couldn't join the military due to a medical reason that I have forgotten. My grandfather had joined the airborne in 42 and was sending his money home because his father was sick and he had younger 6 siblings. He didn't want anyone else to go to war and was pissed when he found out Frank signed up in 44. From what I've read a lot of older men and those who couldn't serve in the military due to medical or physical reasons would join the merchant marines to still do their part. My grandfather would always badger frank about not listening to him until he passed away. They never gave that up.
My dad worked in the merchant marine, in the late fifties. He had fallen out with his father, and wanted to stand on his own feet. He had some months to survive before he could fulfill his duty to the nation as a conscript. So he signed up in the merchant marine. I think he went up and down between Rotterdam and New York a few times (not on a tramp steamer, but on a regular line).
After his army service, he worked his way through university doing many jobs including house painting and making glass-in-lead windows. Then he became a university teacher (Yanks would call him a "professor", but that is a title reserved for heads of departments where I live).
My life is pretty boring compared to his... He died in 2004 from an accident.
I had a neighbor once who's father was a watch on board a merchant marine ship during WW2. His job was to look for U boats during the war.
My wife's Grand Dad had two supply ships(American Merchant Marine) shot out from under his ass in the N.Atlantic and lived to tell the tale but died before we met.Tough bunch
My grandfather joined the US Merchant Marines when he was 17, his ship docked in Japan right after the war ended and he got to see Tokyo in its destruction, he said he only saw one building that had not been destroyed. He passed away in January at the age of 94, I am grateful for all the stories he told me.
Fascinating. Was he part of the efforts of the US to save Japan from deadly starvation after Japan‘s merchant navy was completely destroyed in the war?
It’s a little known fact due to our focus on Britain here in the West but the Japanese merchant marine was hit by far the hardest in the war and was nearly completely destroyed leaving Japan weeks before starvation and stranded millions of Japanese soldiers overseas with no supplies in August 45
@@bingobongo1615 The US Silent Service showed the Kriegsmarine how it could be done. The IJN showed how escort duty SHOULDN'T be done.
Same exact story as my dad. He died at 90 though in 2016.
Thanks for sharing about him Anders, may he rest in peace.
Bless him. My dad joined at 17 in 1944 and served on USS LST 960. Got out in '48. Served with the Sea Bees after the ship was decommed in 1946. He passed at age 89 in 2016. Great men, for sure.
My grandfather was a Merchant Marine during WWll. The one time he spoke of his experience serving he said he always tried to volunteer for ammo or tanker ships. Not for the higher pay but that if his ship was torpedoed he would die in the explosion and not suffer the fate of the men he saw and heard left in the freezing North Atlantic screaming to be picked up knowing that ships can't stop or leave a convoy to pick up survivors.
Thanks for sharing his story. Very glad your grandfather made it through.
It’s so easy to read in a book or hear Indy say something like “three merchantmen were sunk by U-Boats” without really grasping the human trauma and intensity such an event really entailed.
Thanks for trying to shine a light on it TimeGhost team.
@@richardpchaseii5084 I mean yeah, just like the overwhelming majority of the public.
Thank you for watching & helping us remember them
@@richardpchaseii5084 I'm also started from deckhand (below O/S) and going through hawsepipe to become 3rd mate.
I'm the youngest of a much older generation, my father was an officer in the merchant navy, I didn't learn about what he had been through or seen until after his funeral. These were brave men and BOYS. Evidently he had been sunk twice and seen so many young men burn to death or drown it was horrendous. His best friend told me stories of my father's courage and I was stunned that he could even live a normal life after the war. God bless all those merchant sailors from all countries
My great grandfather was merchant marine. He served on the M/V San Demetrio and his convoy HX 84 was attacked by the Admiral Scheer. His boat was hit with shells and caught fire however he along with the rest of his crew abandoned ship and half of the crew made it back to safety. The other half boarded the ship again and sailed it to the UK. This is the same event that involved the sinking of the HMS Jervis Bay. It’s a very interesting story and it even had a war-time movie made about it. Thank you for touching on the topic of the Merchant Marine!
Wait, did those who abandon the ship die?
The first person killed in my home town of Owen Sound Ontario was on Jervis Bay and there is a small park near the cenotaph named after the ship but no writings to explain the significance of the park's name. I think a lot of people don't appreciate what the park represents.
Wow you're young. My adopted father, (not grand or great grand) joined up with the US Merchant Marines in '42 at the age of 15. He was a tall and big boy, and got by with his only living relative's (an Aunt) written permission stating he was 17. He served in the pacific theatre aboard the SS Lane Victory as a deckhand, but became the surgeons 'nurse' unofficially, as he studied medicine on the side. I believe his old ship is on display in southern California still?
He was one of the lucky ones as many US merchant Marines had high causality rates and ships sunk. Went on the join the Navy in late '44 for the last year of the war and trained as a Corpsman with the Marines. He survived the hellholes of Okinawa and Iwo Jima, with more valour decorations then I ever earned in my tours in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Jumping ahead, he stayed in the Navy afterwards, switched to the Army during the Korean War, stayed in after that and switched to the Air Force during the Vietnam War. He retired after that. Basically 1 civilian and 3 military armed forces. Not bad for 30+ year career.
Sadly, he passed away three years ago, but that was a man. They don't make them like that anymore. A young kid just finding his way through life and death. Something some modern adults, let alone those who are 15, would be unable to shoulder. Wars, through most of the 20th century would do that.
Glad your great grandfather survived his ships sinking. That's a hard loss for most, regardless.
@@kellybreen5526 random, but small world I was working in Owen sound today on eighth street!
The film ‘San Demetrio London’ tells this story albeit with some artistic licence. One sad fact about the ship is that the Second Officer Arthur G. Hawkins who reboarded the ship and sailed her home with a skeleton crew) was presented with the ships company flag as a tribute to his bravery. Sadly he was signed up to join another ship sailing from Bristol and he left the flag in its presentation case and his belongings with the ships agent while he had a last night out in the city. That night there was an air raid and he was never seen again. The flag stayed in the agents offices for many years before finally being presented to the Eagle Oil Co. , the ships owners.
Some years back, I knew a gentleman who had been a merchant seaman in the late 30's on a US flagged vessel. After his first engagement with a u-boat, he enlisted in the US Navy. He said he figured at least there he could shoot back.
Merchant men are some of the most unsung hero's of WW2 in my opinion. If those massive amounts of supplies don't get from North America and the rest of the World to the fighting locations then the war can not be won. My Grand Uncle (Grandfathers brother on my Mom's side) was a Merchant Marine in the US during WW2. The recent Tom Hanks movie called Greyhound was a great movie and example of the danger the merchant ships encountered during the war. It also showed how the US, British and Canadian Navies worked together in convoy defense.
Bro that movie was the worst example of ww2 sub warfare. The whole Wolfpack won't suicide charge a ship lol
Thank you Vinny. I appreciate you sharing about your Grand Uncle. All these testimonials I'm reading in the comments remind me how close we still are to this war.
@@jeddkeech259 Read their comment again.
Look up " UK's secret betrayal, repatriation of Chinese sailors after WWII " on yT.
Injustice...
Over a period of about 4 years, I drank coffee at the local Waffle House with an old man that was a Merchant Marine for 10 years. WW2 fell right in the middle of this decade of service.
Ray Lacks was fished from the icy waters of the North Atlantic the first time in 1939. Before it was over, he would be forced to swim twice more. I could write a small novel about our conversations.
He finally passed and has been sorely missed. His obituary was AWESOME. He was one of many heroes that I had the privilege to work and socialize with. They truly WERE the greatest generation.
Can you post a link to it?
Todia Think I will Think of your Friend Ray Lacks this week when I have my morning Coffee . My Brother worked for a Short time for a Taxidermist who was a Merchant Seaman . He was from Poland and was sunk more than once . After one Rescue He ended up in Canada and then moved to the States . Who knows what He saw and Lived thru ? I am happy that Jack passed on his Information to You .
Mr. Ray Lacks was very lucky to have been picked up each time. Oftentimes ships and escorts in convoys did not stop to pick up survivors from a sinking/sunk merchant ship for fear they would be torpedoed themselves.
I worked briefly on US ships back in the 60s.
There were several crew who worked as Mariners during WWII, with a few having ships sunk while they were aboard.
Some experienced multiple sinkings.
A common refrain was that people both during the war and after seemed to consider Mariners as either Draft dodgers or simply money seekers.
However, these old salts said Mariners frequently quit the Merchant Marine and joined the military as it was deemed safer.
Great video, as always, by Indie and the gang.
I knew a Frenchman who served on tankers in WW2. Two were sunk and he went out a third time - and wasn't sunk again, he survived the war. He was pretty deaf, though, one ship's suction dragged him under so far his eardrums were damaged. Sunk twice, going out again - I couldn't do it. Idk if any French merchant ships sailed for the Free French, but expect he served on British or American ships.
He was a lucky survivor - he married a young heiress. She was heir to a share of the Pell family fortune, had a few million for herself, which was good money in the 1960s.
As for the Greek merchant fleet, it lost 77% of its ships and 73% of its tonnage, which are 975 lost ships (52 were passenger ships, 372 cargo ships and 551 sailboats). Most were lost in Atlantic from German u-boats. 2.500-3.000 sailors in Greek ships lost their lives
That is a huge number, we must never forget the Greek merchant shipman.
Greece can't catch a break!
After the war the US GAVE Greece a lot of boats, especially a young guy named Aristotle Onassis. He did well. Even knew a President.
Thank you for sharing about the Greek sailors & fleet.
Was waiting for such a comment. To add, Greece is one of the few countries that awarded a medal for service on the merchant navy, 1940-45 (including Greek navy on escort duties)
My Great Uncle , John Picken, was on the Arctic convoys and amazingly survived being torpedoed twice. Though on the second occasion he lost a leg to frostbite. He received some sort of extra pension because of the wound but used to mock the periodical medicals he had to attend. " Tae see if it's grawn back". I think he got taken to the USSR after the war as well.
He was some boy. Thanks for the video. It's hard to comprehend what they went through.
Thanks for sharing about your Great Uncle, I can't imagine having gone through all that.
I had a friend who was a merchant marine on a supply ship at Okinawa. The kamakazes were frightening. After the war he and a few friends bought a small sail ship and went to Tahiti. Hearing of his experience first hand led me to study WW-2 and to this channel.
US Merchant Marines were the crew of choice for ships carrying munitions and fuel because US Merchant Marines were trained to do every job on the ship and a ship crewed by US Merchant Marines only needed a fraction of the normal crew for that ship.
Thanks for sharing about him.
These merchant mariners often tend to be the ones that seem to be overlooked at times compared to more recognizable or more glamorous front line roles during the war. Logistics of supply lines often seem to be one area that is taken for granted until it breaks down badly enough that the front line stalls due to lack of food or ammunition. Without them, Britain might not have lasted early on in the war. Salute to the bravery of these men when faced with the dangers of the treacherous seas!
Granted I'm being fussy, and saying it to you as yours is top post doing it, sort of, ; ), but the correct term is "a merchant mariner" . I have to think "a merchant marine" is a guy in the Marines, a jar head, with a side business. So it is a Merchant Mariner, singular, Merchant Mainers, plural and the Merchant Marine as the collective form, or the merchant navy, but only if you are a Brit. The old chief mate is coming out in me. Sorry : )
@@travelertime4382 No worries, I learnt something new today. I’m not from the merchant marine or navy so I may be less familiar with the proper terms to use in this regard. I will change it to the correct term accordingly. Thank you for highlighting it!
@@gunman47 No worries, mariners are more tolerant of landsmen than the other way around. I've seen signs saying "dogs and sailors, keep off the grass". No joke.
Thank you for watching. Never forget
Indy, in the first couple of minutes there, you described my grandfather's (probable) fate.
Able Seaman Edward Smart, SS Rubislaw, of Aberdeen, carrying building materials, struck a mine in the Thames Estuary, 28th November, 1939.
My Great-Uncle (CPO John Christie), my grandfather's cousin, served with the Merchant Navy throughout the War and became a role model for me.
Thank you for remembering them here, David.
I was a US naval officer up until a few years ago, and I heavily respect anyone who worked on these ships. It's a hard life and to have the threat of being sunk at any time added on to it is no joke.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's nice knowing that rivalry isn't too pervasive.
My great uncle was a merchant man, he was a teenager on his first voyage when a u-boat sunk his ship but thankfully he survived, he was one of three survivors. He went on to survive a further two sinkings over the war, but the experiences left him so mentally disturbed that he spent the rest of his life in care. I only found out about him after his death as the family didn't like to mention it too much, apparently he'd often wake up screaming, having had nightmares of seeing his shipmates die.
Another of my great uncles would die as a merchantman. My family were lead to believe by the British government he died in a convoy to Britain from Canada, but my sister did some investigating and found that this was a lie, in order to deceive any German spies I suppose, he actually died off the coast of South Africa taking Tungsten from Argentina, the merchant ship was not in a convoy.
Thank you for sharing about your family. May they both rest in peace.
The most overlooked contributions of mariners in WWII are those of the Italian merchant fleet. These sailors kept the supplies flowing to Africa despite horrendous casualties that far surpassed that of any other merchant fleet for nearly three years. By the time Italy collapsed in September 1943, virtually every Italian tanker and large merchant ship had been lost at sea or sunk in harbor.
I remember reading in Brandon Stokesbury's book "A Short History of World War II" during the Battle of the Atlantic section, that what a ship carried affected how the crew actually slept.
Iron Ore - the crew slept on the deck because they only had a few seconds to abandon ship
General cargo - the crew slept in their bunks but stayed dressed and left the door open
Aviation fuel - they closed the door, changed out of their clothes and got a fully nights sleep because if the ship was torpedoed they had no chance of surviving
I was trying to remember where I'd seen that bit, thank you.
I remember as a boy in the 1970s in the waterfront city of Vancouver (before it became all bougie), I'd meet old men who had been in the merchant marine. Largely forgotten by society and usually poor. It wasn't until the 1990s before Canada really recognized their efforts and gave them better pensions and medals. Alas, most were dead by then.
“Twilight and evening bell, And after that the dark! And may there be no sadness of farewell, when I embark.”
Tragic how common such stories are, merchant sailors deserve much more respect and care than that. Never forget.
I picked up my dad at Manhattan docks23 st. No good bys but the ship blew it's horn. 1977.
Despite having the highest casualty rate in the first six months of the war, it would take over 40 years (1988) before American Merchant Mariners would receive VA benefits, when most of these men were in their 60s. From what I've read, even now none of the major veteran groups will accept them as members. If you want to watch a couple of really good movies about the British Merchant Marines in WWII, I recommend the true life adventure "San Demetrio London" (1943) and the documdrama "Western Approaches" (1944).
Thanks for sharing that about the Merchant Mariners.
It also raises interesting questions about the classification of people working in factories producing war materiel or other logistical roles. The concept of total war and how easily that involves civilians and industry. After all, when a factory starts to be considered a valid military target for a bombing raid how do we justify not considering the workers who would be killed as military personnel? Where do we draw the lines between combatant and non-combatant?
@@Belgand Each country handles it differently. And let's not forget the refugees. One of my great aunts received a $5000 stipend from the West German government many years after the war because the Nazis had confiscated her business. This money did not come close to compensating her, but on the other hand, another relative received the same amount - and he never owned anything to begin with. Go figure.
It's almost impossible to qualify for those very limited benefits making the 1988 bill a joke. The vast majority of those who served got nothing before they passed.
@@edwardmeade I agree.
Appreciate this. My grandfather was Merchant Navy and ran the northern routes to Russia. He died when I was too young to ask him anything about it, as well as Alzheimers unfortunately meaning his mind was in no position to answer in his later days.
The Murmansk and Malta route were really hellish. Coastal guns, submarines, air attacks, severe weather freezing to death (Murmansk) or be burned to death (tankers Malta)
Logistics is rarly mentioned in war but the most important.
Thank you for sharing about your grandfather, Lee
My calculus teacher at college was a veteran of the Murmansk run. His ship was sunk by aircraft. When he jumped off the ship he landed on a piece of wood and broke his leg. The hospital in Archangelsk didn't set it correctly so he had a limp for the rest of his life. Of course, going to a maritime school, a lot of our instructors were merchant mariners during the WWII, Korea or Viet Nam.
Thank You Heaps for this episode.
Full respect to the Merchant Navy, often forgotten yet the losses of ships and lives were high.
My maternal Grandmother ('Nan') grew up in a Harbourside suburb of Sydney with merchant sailors, members of the Royal Australian Navy, shipbuilders and wharfies (dock workers). Everyone knew at least one person who was lost in their suburb due to World War II service, which was more of a true community then.
Jo Thank you for watching & sharing about your Grandmother. 🇦🇺
I used to talk to old merchant mariners who were teaching at Mass Maritime in the 90's, and they all said the worst part was that people viewed them as cowards.
Yes, exactly what I was told by several WWII Mariners, some of whom survived multiple sinkings.
They emphasized that it was common for Mariners to quit and enlist in the military as it was deemed safer.
@@Coffeeguyzz they were right. According to the most recent figures I’ve seen, 1 out of every 23 men who served in the US Merchant Marine during WWII died. The nearest Armed Force to that figure was the Marines, which suffered the loss of 1 out of every 27.
@@tomlienert882 The 8th Air Force in England paid the highest price on the American side. About 26,000 killed for about 350,000 in service. Or 1 in 14. If you just include the air crews it was 26,000 for 210,000 or about 1 in 8. Not to diminish the service and sacrifice of any, but flying over Europe from England was a grim endeavor indeed. As dangerous and harrowing as it was to be a Merchant Mariner, or 8th AF air crew, or Marine, Kriegsmarine U-boat losses were the worst of the war. About 70% of sailors in U-boats died in them. They may have been the enemy from our standpoint, but their courage cannot be denied.
@@steveread6843 American submariners also had the highest casualty rate among US servicemen - about one in five died. The fate of most of them wasn't known until after the war, when Japanese records could be examined - during the war they'd just leave on patrol and never be heard from again and eventually declared missing and presumed lost. It must have been absolute hell on their families.
My Dad served his time at Camell Lairds Birkenhead, he should have gone out with the Thetis on her sea trials but was deemed too young. He went straight from Camell to work as an engineer on the SS Duchess of Bedford. It was the last big ship out of Singapore and was credited with sinking a U Boat. He never spoke about his time in the war but was scarred by the Thetis and it haunted his later years as his dementia took hold. Thank you for devoting an episode to this, and helping to remember all those special people.
Thanks for sharing about your Dad. It's quite humbling to read so many testimonials here in the comments about our viewers' families serving at the time. Never forget
Most of the crew only signed on for the trip out and back,and were discharged on reaching home port.The time could vary from weeks to a year or more.A lot of convoys only had a couple of corvettes and an armed trawler as escorts.My father was on a convoy when the fleet from Gibraltar went by to intercept the Bismarck and he quoted the skipper saying "By God there is a navy after all".
Thanks for sharing that from your father's time at sea.
My maternal Grand-father was a merchant marine in WW2. He worked in the engine room. And he said what they would do is when the danger of a U-boat attack was high, none of them were down with the engines if they didn't have to be. They'd draw lots every 15-30 minutes for who would go down and check on the status of the machinery. While the rest of them were in the passage ways and gang ways above.
He did become a casualty. Not from being attacked, but from disease. He caught Malaria, probably on a run from India. As he was put off his ship in Alexandria. And spent weeks in a hospital there. He ended up with a strong dislike of goat cheese from that. As he'd always say that's all they fed him in the hospital.
Thanks for sharing about your Grandfather's experience during the war.
My grandfather was a merchant marine on a Greek ship during world war 2. When hostilities broke out they were out on the Atlantic traveling to Argentina. Most of the crew decided to not get back on the old ship after they docked. He then moved to Chile and started a family.
Thank you for sharing about him
My great uncle was in the British Merchant Navy all his life, and had two ships blown from under him during the war; and a distant cousin was killed when his merchant ship was sunk off Scotland at the end of 1939. As with pandemics, you suddenly realise who the real keyworkers are when war rolls over you. Thanks for this, guys.
Thanks for sharing about them here, Mike.
My grandfather was royal merchant navy and was also torpedoed twice. Guess we are lucky to be here...
my great grandfather served on a dutch merchant ship in the beginning of the war, but in 1940 his ship got hit by a torpedo from a u-boat. apparently the ship sunk within 2 minutes with all hands. he was still young and had a 3 year old child witch was my grandmother.
A 3-year old child witch? That’s interesting! Lol, just kidding. That must have been hard on your family.
@@garrett8732 English is just a weird language
Thanks for sharing about him & your grandmother. May he rest in peace
My uncle was in the USN and served on merchant ships as an armed guard. In January 1943, his ship was steaming in the Caribbean when it was torpedoed. The ship was not in convoy, so the u-boot surfaced and greeted the crew who abandoned ship. The Germans questioned the captain about what they were carrying and where they were going. After the skipper lied about these queries, the U-boot made sure their lifeboat had ample provisions and left. After 5 days on the high seas, the lifeboat made land in Venezuela.
Wow, that's quite amazing they survived the interrogation & 5 days at sea. Thanks for sharing about them
My father in law was a Merchant Marine, loved the sea and sailing until the day he passed, my father was on a tanker in the Pacific, it was traveling light, he watched a torpedo go under the bow, next one hit a water hold next to a fuel hold. They limped back to port. I'm glad he made it, he had not met my mother yet.
Thanks for watching & sharing your family's history at sea. I'm also very glad your father made it back & you're here to join us.
My Father was on a tanker, too, USS Agawam. He spent 3 years in the Pacific delivering fuel, primarily avgas, to the islands taken by the Marines as they progressed toward Japan. He passed away when I was 24 and I never really talked with him about his service. Wish I could now.
My uncle joined the US merchant marine in ‘42 when the us was in the war. He tried to join the Navy but didn’t qualify. The merchant marine were not so picky. He says his first trip to Mermansk was the worst; he witnessed several other ships in his convoy sunk by u-boat torpedos.
I can't imagine how terrifying that would be to witness. Thanks for sharing your uncle's experience.
My father served in the US Merchant Marine in WW2, aboard the Liberty Ship Winfred L. Smith. US Navy also rejected him for having perforated eardrums. Merchant marine was glad to have him. He was at Operation Torch, the battle of the North Atlantic, Murmansk run several times, and helped with restoration of the harbor at Cherbourg (he was a welder by trade) after the Germans wrecked it. Very proud of him and his service. Sadly, the Merchant Marine did not receive GI Bill benefits.
After reading Alistair McLean's "HMS Ulysses", I could not imagine a worse place to be than on a North Sea convoy in WW2.
The Murmansk convoys were especially rough. My dad was in the Canadian navy during the war and he told me that the men dreaded being assigned to them.
@@Conn30Mtenor My uncle was a Canadian Navy officer on loan to the Norwegians. All ships had to have English speaking radio guys, but most of the time they were under radio SILENCE. he thought that was hilarious. He ran bunker fuel to Murmansk. And survived the war.
'The Mathews Men' by William Geroux is another really good book about the Merchant Marine.
Try a Mediterranean convoy to Malta…
@@allangibson2408 just as dangerous but at least there is no freezing sleat and you have a chance of surviving more than 10 minutes in the water.
Another large merchant fleet during the war was the Norwegian Notraship (Norwegian Shipping and Trade Mission). It was established in London in april 1940 and operated some 1000 vessels. Notraship made a serious contribution to the Allied war effort.
I met a merchant mariner one time, he was a carpenter. I was suffering from malaria and I was in the army as well! So they stuck me in a hospital with this guy who mid 90's who was dying from two or three types of cancer, and he was putting a Ship in to a bottle. While having a temperature of a 104 he told me stories of sailing from Iceland to Marco in peace time! Being a jungle fighter in the Philippines, and was living off three pensions and enjoying the sweet life in his mid 80's and he was 95 or 96 years old when we crossed paths! Telling me those stories while having malaria and watching him put a Spanish schooner in a bottle was a jaw dropping experience! The History he had would have filled up to an honor episode for you guys I still remember a couple of stories!
Mikael that is an amazing experience, I'm glad you pulled through & thank you for sharing about him.
Had an uncle that was in the merchant marine. On his first voyage out of the Bay Area to the Philippines on a refrigerator ship, it was supposed to be a 3 or 4 week trip. Go to the Philippines, drop off food supplies and return. The war ended on the way there and he spent the next year and a half in the So. Pacific resupplying bases, ships at sea and small atolls.
He had the time of his life. Traded food for Japanese War souvenirs. He had duffle bags full of swords, rifles, flags and skulls in his garage.
Skulls ?
@@rayjfroehlich84 yeah the Americans in the pacific were known to desecrate the corpses of the Japanese (and sometimes just random graves…) and make memorabilia out of them.
A Japanese skull was even on the Front page of a magazine in the US (which was gold for the anti-American propaganda in Japan) and apparently Roosevelt got gifted a letter opener made out of a femur.
Japanese heads were also often displayed on spikes or hang from trees to show the Japanese soldiers what awaited them and especially the Marines showed no mercy to surrendering or wounded Japanese soldiers (as also famously portrayed in letters from Iwojima).
The pacific war was absolutely fucked up and there is also your reason why American war movies more often portray the European war
@@bingobongo1615 The Japanese showed zero mercy to Allied POW’s either. The ones captured in New Guinea were eaten.
The only battle that I really worried about, was the battle of the atlantic (Paraphrasing --) - Churchill.
The contribution of the Merchant Navy to liberty and freedom is so gigantic, and so generally not remembered - well done for making the episodes.
The northern convoys to supply the Russians were utterly brutal in all aspects.
Thank you for helping us remember
Something else usually overlooked about the merchant marine service in those days. A ship had ONE master, they did not have much of a code of laws or navy regulations to protect the captain and crew. Sometimes captains would go so far as to have someone flogged at his own personal discretion. There is even an old story of a man placing limburger cheese inside a lamp, supposedly they were going to toss the guy overboard if they caught him.
That's quite the reaction to a cheesy prank
Remembering my Great Uncle: William Dawson 4th Eng Officer on the S.S. Rosalia (Netherlands) - although he was from Northumberland.
killed on the 28 July 1943 aged 33 when his ship (an oil tanker) was torpedoed off the coast of Caracus by U-615
Often wondered what a lad from a mining village in England was doing there and how it was for him.
Thank you for sharing about your Great Uncle. May he rest in peace
Excellent! My grand father was in the merchant marines. His ship was going to be filled with aviation fuel but at the last minute oil was loaded instead. His ship was torpedoed in the bow. He said if the aviation fuel was there the ship would have blown up. The captain called down to him in the engine room and ordered full ahead, raising the hole out of the water enough to save the ship. He was awarded a medal but we have no idea where it ever went :(
My grandfather sailed for Sunoco in WWII. He convinced his half-brother to join up. During Convoy HX-231, the M/S Sun Oil ran into engine problems and U-530 sunk the straggling Merchant Ship. The Sun Oil sank so fast that all hands were lost, including my grandfather's half-brother who was a wiper on that ship.
The sacrifices of our Merchant Mariners is often forgotten, so thank you for this video.
I highly recommend the novel serie "a hero of sea" by Norwegian author Jon Michelet. He wanted to give the war sailors the recognition they deserved and in 2012 the first out of six book in his series was published. The series follow a young Norwegian sailor from just before the war starts and we follow him all the way through the war.
I have read it twice and it is a fantastic read even for people that aren't interested in history and world war 2.
Thanks for the suggestion
@@WorldWarTwo no problem :) A bit of context, Michelet him self had been a sailor as young man and later he became one of the most repected authurs in Norway. He had many times talked publicky about the unjustice the Norwegian war sailor was meet with when they got home. He though this was so important that finished the last book in this serie on his death bed during the winter of 2018.
is this in english? i would love to read this.
@@dougmphilly I found several references to the English titals of the novels but Im not able to find any place where they sell English translations or even a list off his novels that are translated to other languages. So in short I don't know, they should have been translated.
My Dad joined the Merchant Marines in summer 1942 after being rejected for military service due to Asthma. He saw more action than many military members did and was wounded by shrapnel during D-Day when his Liberty Ship, the SS Lyman Hall was hit. And he never spoke of it. I had to find out from my Uncle.
I read awhile ago that when you look at the overall Navy, Army, and Merchant Marines that the latter had the highest fatality rate @4%. Now there were sub-units of the other services that had worse (8th Air Force comes to mind) but overall the Merchant Seaman had the greatest risk of loss of life. After the war my Dad continued serving eventually holding a Chief Mate's ticket (just below the Captain). He retired in the mid-70's.
Thank you for sharing about your Dad's service
I had never really realized how about important merchant ships were as well as the logistics of supply lines that were needed for each belligerent in WW2. Thank you WW2 team for shedding light on this subject!
Not just in WWII. Google supply chain hold ups, in today's news. Then, remembering that the Ukraine exports huge amounts of wheat and food oil, and ask yourself why Putin wants to control their ports.
Well, riflemen might win firefights, artillery might win battles, but logistics determines campaigns and war. Without bullets, food or warm socks, there are no fighting.
Thank you for watching as always, Indiana Jones!
My great-grandfather was a First World War veteran of the Somme and a Chief Engineer for Cunard/White Star aboard the MV Georgic during the war. He helped to rebuild its engines in Mumbai after its attack and grounding, helping to return it to service by 1944. Thank you for shedding light on this oft-overlooked portion of WWII.
Thank you for sharing about your great-grandfather, that's quite the prestigious service record.
Thanks for this episode Indy. My great grandfather was a donkey man on the Empire Impala. He went down with the ship when it was torpedoed by U591 on the 11th March 1943. The ship had stopped to pick up survivors from the Egyptian. Never forget.
Thank you for sharing about your great grandfather, may he rest in peace.
No torpedo bulges, no hull compartmentalization, no sonar, no air cover, slow speed, holds full of flammable/explosives, no damage control stations or training.
Balls of steel.✅
Thank you for going into more depth on these mostly unsung heroes of WWII!
My Dad's father was an american merchant marine sailor during the war and ended up in the Pacific theatre.
Thanks for watching & sharing about your grandfather, David.
Ah, great stuff. Quality content from the WW2 guys again! Logistics are the often neglected part of warfare, if you can't get it there it can't happen.
Cainsy, thank you for watching
My grandfather served on the Arizona during the 1930s. After the he left the Navy but before Pearl Harbor he was in a motorcycle accident where he lost his middle toe. The Navy wouldn't take him back but the army would. He liked the high seas so he went into the Merchant Marines and served as first mate. I wish I knew what ship he was on.
Thanks for sharing about your grandfather, Dan.
Thank you for highlighting these brave people. My Dad is 99 and had signed on as a cabin boy in 1937. He was in the war from 1939 and when it was over the company said he still had to finish his contract.
Thanks for sharing about him, Glenn. Hopefully he didn't get too raw a deal from that contract after so many years of service.
"Listen mate, you're asking me to volunteer to serve in the Merchant Marine, a service whom half of which die in. Why would I bloody well do that?"
"We'll pay you good."
"FECKIN' HELL, I'M IN!"
When I was a teen, we had an old WWII MM sailor working for us. I knew they had a horrible time in the convoys. He was a short, spry man, with a nice personality. One time I asked him how many ships he had shot out of under him. I remember he looked at me, and said ‘six’. I said WOW and that was the entire conversation that day.
it was always a crap shoot. My uncle was in the Naval Armed Guard (naval crews assigned to merchant ships as gunners and signalmen) and made five Atlantic crossings and several other voyages, once as far as India, and never had his ship torpedoed or a man in their crews killed. He certainly saw other ships get sunk, though. He said like many young men he knew the danger but always figured it would happen to someone else. He just died a little more than a year ago, the last WW2 vet in his VA retirement home. He said at the time he resented the merchant marine crewmen getting paid much more for the same job, but after the war he felt bad that they were denied veterans' benefits since they all faced exactly the same danger.
Thank you, this is literally the first history Episode I have ever heard of that give merchant Sailors the focus they deserve.
Bitte!
The US monument to the Merchant Marine is in Battery Park, in Manhattan. I use to sit by it regularly and eat lunch. It is three seaman on a sinking boat.
I have read of a rivalry between Merchant sailors and regular USN sailors. Naval personnel looked down on Merchant sailors due to them making higher pay. "They are only doing it for the money..."
In the Atlantic the chances of being were higher for Merchants. The Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago has an excellent exhibit along with a U boat. The numbers of merchant ships sunk in the Atlantic was just devastating.
There was some recognition in the '80s or '90's regarding the Merchant Marines sacrifices during WWII.
Fair Winds and Following Seas!
Thanks for that. My old man signed up for his first voyage aged 14 in February 1941 aboard The Wayfarer, as a scullion or pantry boy on The North Atlantic. He served throughout the war and afterwards repatriating POW's, war brides and refugees. I could never really figure out why he'd volunteered because the war would have been almost over by the time he'd have been conscripted. Mind you his mum had lost three of her brothers in the trenches, two on the first day of The Somme, and his dad had been wounded at Mons and gassed later, so maybe it's not too difficult. Your film fills in many blanks and pays homage to boys like me dad who must have been shitting themselves, but as he'd always say to me< I was either too busy or tired to notice.
Thanks for sharing your family's history in both wars.
Great episode. I had the blessed pleasure of having a former merchant marine as a neighbor many years ago. I've met few people who were so happy to just be alive. Is sunny, friendly personality was welcome anytime. He also for many years had a Big Band music radio show that, I believe, was picked up by several stations around the country. It helped bond a great many American WWII vets in this community of music. He never talked about what we saw or experienced. He simply reveled in the now.
Thanks Terry, he sounds like he was a great neighbor. I appreciate you sharing his memory here.
I knew a fellow named Newhouse who came from Jersey. He said that the women he knew (in England, Jersey was occupied by the Germans) would ask for Onions and Jerky then the next time they would ask for sugar and cotton cloth then silk stockings and canned fruit. I guess they were out of everything in England. His ship (Monmouth, 10,000 tons) was full of wood so it didn't sink when it was hit by a torpedo. One time his ship was packed with explosives and there was two crates secured on deck. The Mate told him that the crates contained money. Newhouse didn't believe him so the Mate pried off a board and took out a sack and showed him the silver coins. Not a very safe way to move their money, but the Bank fellows were there to take their crates when they docked.
My grandad was a merchant seaman during the war, thank you for shedding more light on what he endured.
Thanks for watching & sharing about your grandad
My grandad was in the British royal merchant navy...
Got got injured due to a sub attack, had a wounded leg for the rest of his life but lived a good one. He was treated in a Canadian hospital and came back home to South Wales.
Thank you for remembering him here.
Thanks for mentioning this topic. Logistics of war - merchant shipping, truck driving and people who perform these duties - deserve much, MUCH more attention than they ger.
dad was a merchant mariner in both theaters. thank you so much for this episode. he later turned his experience in the merchant marine to rise to tanker captain for gulf oil. he said that his experiences at sea during ww2 made him an effective captain. one thing that stood out that he said that you mentioned was that for a crew to get stuff done, it had to put aside prejudices and pettiness. all the crews he was on was multi national, different faith and a rainbow of races. it was live and let live except if you violated a vital safety procedure or you exposed the ship to enemy attack. thus, when dad rose to tanker captain, he was known as a safety first captain and he never gave anyone a second chance if they put the ship in danger whether they be a 30 year veteran or a 30 day newbie.
doug, thank you for sharing about your dad's experiences during the war. Amazing to hear those individual perspectives of how things were handled on-ship.
Many years ago I worked with a man who had served as marine engineer on merchant ships during WWII. Twice sunk and twice rescued, he was not only a brilliant engineer but the finest man I ever knew. RIP Jack Parkinson. You will never be forgotten.
Thanks for remembering Jack here. May he rest in peace.
Guy I knew, now deceased, was a merchant seaman and said he was green as grass when he and a buddy were assigned to a freighter. While crossing the Atlantic, they thought they'd make a plan "just in case" a torpedo struck their ship.
One of the old seamen noticed them scouting out the ship, asked, "What are you doing?"
"If we get torpedoed, we want to be in a good place to escape."
Old guy: "Did you notice how far away all the other ships are keeping from us?"
"No."
OG: "Our holds are full of ammo...bombs, shells, all kind of explosives...if a torpedo hits us, there won't be anything to escape from."
My man said, "I started learning to relax after that."
Very interesting, thanks for sharing his story.
My father was a WWII US Merchant Marine before, during and after WWII.
He was first shot at in Aug. 1941.
He got sunk in May 1942.
Because a Third Mate in Jan. 1943.
He made Master in the summer of 1945 at the age of 24.
They finally gave them veteran status in the late 1980's.
My great grandfather was in the Merchant Marine. From Thanksgiving of 42, all the way till the end. One of the ships he was on, the Robert Battey, ran around in the Phillipines.
Thanks for sharing about his service here
Totally fantastic to hear this from an American, so well-researched, and detailing the terrible perils our Merchant Navy went through (before we get to the equally impressive story of the US Merchant /service during the war). Thank you!!!
My Dad, USS Escanaba, WWII Merchant Marine veteran would love this episode! Thanks for taking the time to produce such a wonderful documentary,
Thanks for watching, Ed.
Thank you for this episode. Those guys on the merchant ships were vital to the war effort, but get little praise for their heroic efforts and great sacrifices. Also note that the US was building two Liberty Ships a WEEK to provide that transport, an unbelievable accomplishment.
Old movies like 'Action In The North Atlantic' are fun to watch today, but really portray the men aboard those Liberty Ships in a heroic light.
Thanks for watching as always, & thanks for the suggestion.
Someone should mention the merchant giant called "Greece" owning a large part of the global merchant tonnage. The Greek fleet contributed in the war cause.
My grandfather was a part of the merchant marines and he always felt he didn’t deserve the honors of the other branches of the military. But with such a high casualty rate all of them were heroes!
Thank you for sharing about him, Elliot.
I've heard that the US Merchant Marine suffered the highest percentage of US casualties until the invasion of Okinawa. If you survive the explosion, the fire, and avoid drowning, there is death from exposure, as horrible a death as any. At the Museum of Science and Industry, in Chicago (one of the great museum in the world), they have a captured U-boat. The line to the U-boat winds through an exhibit of US Merchant Marine losses. It is staggering, and definitely hardens your heart to the losses of the Kriegsmarine. Perhaps this is unfair, but it underlines the stupidity and obscenity of war.
I don't know if this helps with the percentage of casualties but the death toll for each allied merchant navy are as follows
UK 🇬🇧 30,248
US 🇺🇸 9,521
CAN 🇨🇦 1,600
AUS 🇦🇺 386
NZ 🇳🇿 140
Be glad that Admiral Donitz never received the number of U-boats he said he needed between 1939 and 1941 when, maybe, the U-boats could have won the battle of the Atlantic.
My late father-in-law served both in the north Atlantic and the Pacific on T2 Tankers. God bless them all.
Summery vibe from these colours. Looking sharp, Indy! 4/5
Thanks as always, Gianni
One of my first professors at a US maritime academy was one of those sailors. With only 90 days of training he served as a ships officer during the war on the Murmansk run and continued working at sea for decades. He retired from teaching relatively recently in his 90s.
My dad sailed in the merchant marines throughout the war, Pacific and Atlantic. The stories I could tell you would blow your mind. Simply amazing. p.s. He was a wonderful man.
Thank you for sharing about your dad's experiences.
My great-grandfather was a merchant marine, and I remember him telling me about being on an old cargo ship en route to Normandy around D-Day and not finding out the ship he was on was full of explosives until he asked an officer midway across the Atlantic. Maybe not as wild as some other stories, but just the thought of being on what was effectively a massive bomb in the middle of a wartime ocean is something that I'm glad I never had to live through.
Thanks for sharing your great-grandfather's experience. Being aboard an ammo ship would definitely be terrifying to me.
On the bright side, on a ship like that the chance of surviving a torpedoing to be marooned at sea and dying slowly from exposure was pretty much nil. (The not so bright side is, of course, pretty obvious.)
My grandad's brother (granduncle?) sailed for the british merchant fleet. He was torpedoed 7 times, 6 of them the ship sank. He survived the war but was not the same man that came home.
Wow that’s impressive, I’m guessing he’s not in a rush to be on any more boats
The old boy I used to live next door to was sunk 3 times. I thought that was a bit much, but 6 times...!
My granddad was RN in both wars, served at Jutland in WW1, and in the Arctic in WW2, and he wouldn't have swapped places with the Merchant Navy.
Thank you for sharing about him, Peter. Hopefully he found peace in his life after war.
My father served both in the UK merchant marine, and later was moved to royal navy reserve. Dad would not talk much about the war, I had to go to my uncles for that, but I recall a few things worth sharing. First was, as an engine room officer, he and his men were not in the safest spot. The ship would be made water tight when going into battle, that meant they had few ways to escape - mostly via the smoke stack (try holding your breath or seeing with all the smoke). Another was a large scar on his forehead that became visible when he became bald later. That was from a crazed stoker who hit him with a shovel trying to escape. It was the only time he had to pull his pistol on a sailor. Finally, and he did not know it until after the war, but he actually saw his brother's ship hit by torpedoes and sunk in the Med. He survived but spent 3 days in the water before picked up. Thank you for your show, I really enjoy it.
Thanks for those details about your family's service, William. Every account like yours brings our channel a level of detail that isn't possible any other way. I appreciate you sharing their memory here
I knew a man in Alaska, Norwegian by birth, who sailed with the Free Norwegian Merchant Marine. He was at sea when Norway fell and stayed with his ship. He spent most of the war sailing on convoy routes in the Pacific. He married an Australian woman after the war. They opened a nice road house in Delta Junction, Alaska. I enjoyed eating there and listening to their stories.
One of the lucky ones who did not become one of the 3700 Norwegian sailors who were killed during the war, or ended up as an alcoholic homeless person
Related to this topic: recommend the 1943, Humphrey Bogart film, "Action In The North Atlantic." The film depicts the lives and duties of a group of U.S. Merchant Marines during WWII. The film was praised, at the time, as being so accurate that the real U.S. Merchant Marine Academy adopted the film as part of its educational film library.
Thanks for the recommendation. Also check out the film San Demetrio London
There are so many reasons why the phrase : "Worse things happen at sea" became common currency. I remember talking to a man who had sailed on Liberty shops- he said they were forever drilling big holes to stop the cracks from extending and leading to structural problems. I had known him for a while before his WW2 history was mentioned and I wish I had talked to him more about these experiences. He was a real character. RIP Dickie.
Thanks for remembering him here. Rest in peace Dickie.
Having worked a bit in the shipping (as in transportation of good) industry, it always amazes me to see old films showing the world before the pallet. Literal game changer. Actually I think it was invented during WW2; it could be a very niche, but very interesting special episode!
Great vlog as always! DO not forget the Norwegians. We had the largest merchant marine after the british. I think also we had a third of all tanker vessels. Make an episode about that? Imagine to sign on late 1939 early 1940 most of the sailors from Norway did not see the shores of the mother land until the summer of 1945! If their ships was in service for the US in the pasific they did not come home until 1946… Many young boys escaped from Norway, via the UK to the US and then to Little Norway in Canada to become pilots. Some also via Sweden, Russia and then to Canada. Btw my first time on a jump seat in the cockpit was with a WW 2 pilot. This was in 1979. The captain had flown for BOAC after the war and was in chief pilot of their South American ops. He lost his job at the age of 26 due to heavy drinking. Almost normal among pilots and sailors. Then he got a job with Scandinavian Airlines System (SAS) Same old story… lost his job once again. Then his wife got him a job with Braathens S.A.F.E. that he had stop drinking. He kept his promise and his job. Retired from flying in 1981. Him and his wife was still playing golf when they both was over 90 yrs old! My fist jump seat was on a 737-200. My dad said to me «Do not speak unless spoken to» I remember it like it was yesterday. Lol! Sorry for the comment. Yes, I ended up working for the airline. As ground staff.
Thanks for watching
Back in the 1970's, one of my grade school teacher's husband was a Canadian merchant mariner. He told us that he got the best sleep when carrying munitions - if you got hit, you would never know it. He didn't sleep well when carrying cargoes of vehicles steel or other heavy bulk goods since the ship, if hit, would sink before you could get out of your hammock. He didn't talk much about tankers. Our teacher said he still had nightmares from trying to pull men form the flaming oil.
Apart from purely war related materials, both my parents in the UK and even more so my in-laws on Malta depended on food and supplies brought over by merchant mariners. I can never forget that without them, I and my kids would likely not exist today.
Thank you for sharing about your teacher, and how your family was impacted by the merchant mariners.
My dad was a merchant marine during WW 2. He was lucky, he only took one round trip to Hawaii from San Francisco on a fuel tanker in 1944. He was lucky in that Japanese subs did not consistently attack merchant ships (not too smart). He told me they made the trip solo without escort! That was his only trip, after that he was drafted into the war and spent the rest of the war on Adak in the Aleutians as a signal corp man.
Thanks for sharing your dad's experience. Very glad he made it through the war.
The Japanese submarines and raiders did attack merchant ships - they did however make a point of leaving absolutely no survivors.
My Uncle was a Merchant Marine killed by the Japanese in WW2.
May he rest in peace.
My grandfather was in the Merchant Marine during WWII - oil tankers mostly from what I understand. AFAIK his ships were never sunk, but he didn't talk much about it. He did tell us a story about how he once had to shoot a German who came at him with a knife while in port.
Thank you for sharing about your grandfather. Glad he survived, especially after a near-knife fight.
My grandfather and 16 year old uncle were crewmen on the Esso Boston when it was torpedoed and sunk by the U-130 in April 1942. All survived. Early in my own sailing career I worked with many former WW2 merchant sailors. One Engineer had been on the Texaco Tanker “Connecticut” when it was sunk by the German Raider “Michael”, he was picked up and handed off to the Japanese as a POW.
Thank you for sharing, glad they both survived that sinking.
Another great one Indy and team. Coming from a long line of merchant sailors, mostly engineers, I really loved this one.
Having relatives who were in the Dutch merchant navy during ww 1 and ww 2, and being probably the last of my family still sailing, it is an interesting subject, thanks for the special.
Thanks for watching with us @The Bored Traveller. It's staggering how many people have shared their familial connections to the C20th merchant navies with us since this episode came out. For so many people this was their experience of the world wars, aboard a merchant ship rather than a battlefield. We're really glad you enjoyed the episode
What a coincidence! I just did a research paper on the Merchant Mariners! It was primarily on the U.S. Merchant Mariners who sailed during the Battle of the Atlantic, not the British Merchant Marine in which this video focuses more on.
But like Indy said, a lot of the experiences were universal.
One source I found was an interview from a Navy Armed Guard aboard a merchant ship which sunk and he and some other Merchant Mariners were stuck on a raft for 83 days!! Some of those on the raft passed away unfortunately.
(some of the ships that were armed had sailors from the Navy onboard because they were trained to use the guns)
I had never heard of them before trying to figure out what to do a paper on, but these men served their country just like other veterans but they don’t get the recognition like they should.
Thanks for sharing that, Coolajxl. I hope your research paper was well received.
Thanks!
Thank you for watching, Leo
Thanks for this video. my great grandfather on my mother's side served the merchant navy during world war 2 he was Guyanese he was on the Atlantic route from the UK to Canada when he got to Canada they didn't have any warm clothes so they had to get them from the Red Cross, one night he was out in the town at the pub and he missed his recall and the ship left without him, he found out later that the ship he was meant to be on was sunk by a U boat
Thank you Elduderino. Quite lucky that he was off the ship.
My aunt's dad was aboard a U.S. Navy convoy escort ship during WW2. He told me horror stories of merchant ships getting torpedoed and of trying to rescue merchant sailors from the cold waters... also of men trying to swim through or under the burning oil.
My late partner's old dad was in the merchant marine. A chief engineer, who worked the arctic convoys. He hardly ever spoke about it, but I can't imagine how stressful it was for him, nor the quiet courage it called for & not just from him; he had a family & his wife must have gone through horribly worrying times too.
Thank you for remembering him here.
My grandfather served in the Merchant Navy and his ship was torpedoed in 1942, losing 13 crew and one gunner. He was recued by a Canadian corvette and landed in the Azores. Beyond that, his service was very fortunate and he had many stories to tell about the places he saw.
At school I did some research and learnt that one month later the U-boat that sank his ship went down with all 46 crew. My grandfather was saddened by this, remarking "the sea is a dangerous enough place without men trying to kill each other".
@Peter thanks for sharing your grandfather's story with us. In our Out Of The Foxholes episode where we talked about those taken prisoner by German commerce raiders we found some accounts of camaraderie between men on opposite sides at sea as they recognised the dangers and hardships they shared in common as mariners, it is really interesting to hear something similar from your grandfather's perspective.
My uncle Victor was a merchant marine his whole working life, all through World War II,
He retired in the 1970s.
When I asked him if he was ever torpedoed, he said, "No, but i saw torpedos in the water!
I suppose that was good enough for him. I asked him how many ports he sailed to. He just said, "All of them."
He was my mothers youngest brother.
Something about the "donkeyman" being thr guy in charge of the engine room is hilarious to me
About 40 yrs ago I worked for a man who had 2 ships sunk under him during convoys. Those men had guts.