@@beepboop204 speak off censorship and canceling culture 🙃 what happened for the Christians people who don't agree with ur political party agenda? Aren't they being censored and being outcasts in their own lands for following their own religion?
@@thewildcat7972 not where i live, no. many religions prohibit murder as well, but murder happens all over the world. i think its ok to talk about things, when they exist, even if they are prohibited by religions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@beepboop204 where I live allot of my neighbors wasterns Christians and Jews who don't agree about what ur corrupt political party with it's big corporations do to their religion's
Some commenters still don't get it. He had mentioned it already, this is not a theology channel. If you are not that open-minded enough to learn about this kind of topic. Don't watch. Easy.
It's all about a person claiming to be Muslim and delivering certain stuff if that stuff goes against the fold of Islam than they are not a Muslim and they can't use that word as their identity anymore
@@fuzailhasan7856 you can actually say stuff that goes against the ‘fold of islam’ and still be muslim. Only very intolerant sects of muslims say what you’re saying.
Dumb mfs in the comments still don’t get it lol, he’s talking about HISTORY, not THEOLOGY. He’s talking about the historical role of homosexuality in the Muslim community, not whether it’s right or wrong. You have two ears and two eyes, use them.
Ohhhh this channel deletes comments, I SEE. You have 200 anti west comments a a bunch of people quoting surahs like it's speakers corner in London but do you
Man, the way you were able to present a topic that is often considered extremely sensitive in the most neutral yet respectful way possible (as a queer person myself, I'm really grateful that you took the time to point out that pederasty and homosexuality are two completely different things - sometimes it feels like many today see it as the same thing) is honestly so refreshing. And the fact that your comment section is so respectful is a huge testament to your impartiality. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
I truly liked your comment. You said “as a queer person”. What does that mean? I know what it’s meant to mean. But my question is, if you can explain it with as much sensitivity as you expressed your thoughts in the comment, could you explain to me what queer means. Does it mean seeing the world in a different way? Is it always related to sexual proclivity. Because most people will say I’m a man or a woman. I am French I am Italian. I truly have no sense of what it would mean to say “I am queer”, other than saying, “I am sexual for things that make me curious in ways that are exciting and not acceptable and I derive an important part of my identity from the result of that in my world” Would you add that or change it? Thank you.
@@Alpha-Andromeda Well. Being part of a marginalised community will always make you see the world differently. I used "queer" in my comment bc it's an umbrella term for everyone in the LGBTQ+ community and therefore won't give away which letter I am exactly. It's a way to protect myself against those who wish harm on people like me - they can't specifically target me if they don't know what I am. This isn't how every queer person thinks, everyone sort of has their own definition of what the word means for them. But no, it isn't always sexual. Most of the time it isn't. The problem is, our community is often reduced to sexuality by those outside of it. Homophobes will be the first to say that the first thing they think of when seeing a gay couple is how disgusting it is that they have sex instead of, you know. Seeing them as just a normal couple. When we say we're queer, we aren't saying we're a sexuality. We're saying that it's a part of who we are and that we won't let anyone shame us away from it. Queer can also refer to gender, bc some people don't identify as either man or woman, and they use queer and non-binary pretty much interchangeably. In my case, though, I mentioned being queer in my comment bc it was directly related to the video's topic. It's the same as someone saying "as a [insert race here] person" under a video talking about racial issues. I wanted to thank OP and the comment section for being so respectful when usually, bringing LGBTQ+ topics in a religious setting creates a breeding ground for hate. And it goes back to the first thing I mentioned - my queerness essentially forces me to see the world differently. I put myself in constant danger just being out about it, so I always navigate unfamiliar settings with extreme caution. Straight people have the luxury of separating their sexuality from their identity bc being straight is considered "the norm" or "default state". It's never really put into question. And you're never in danger of violence just for being straight (you might be for other reasons, but being straight isn't one of them), so it's easy to brush it off. I can't do that. Idk if that makes sense ? English isn't my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across clearly enough. But if you have more questions or want me to clarify other things, feel free to ask. I don't mind answering questions when they come from a place of genuinely wanting to understand, so you don't have to worry about offending me.
Yeah i can relate once i have crush on a guy and we make out and then he just disappeared never comes back. So then i decided to marry girl. But i prefer both maybe threesome marriage two men and women 😅😂
I saw the cutest blonde guy this month, he waved his hair, turned his head back to stare at my face with his puppy eyes, making me frozen in love: I was busy, couldn't chase,, we locked eyes for 10 seconds and then he slowly walked into the horizon... I lost my boy, I lost my lover, I felt he was my soulmate and now the only thing I got about him is a memory. I'm never missing another boy again, ever. 🥲
@@the_kimchi_kommandant2603we men are all bisexuals who only use women to reproduce: females don't love us so the only way is to love, nurture and take care of each other, it's very common in soccer... May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you ✝️
This alleged "Speaking out against sodomy" or against anything else gay is an old Closet Case ploy. It means diddley. It's like picking a pocket while crying "Look over there!"
Homosexuality still exists to this day in the Arab world but same as the old days people don't talk about it and even deny its existence. But me being an Arab knows very well what goes on in my society, I'm not saying it's wrong or right, I'm just saying it feels similar to the old times... People never acknowledge it yet it's always been around.
Yes, It's very common in every parts of the World even in Bangladesh.whether Islam support it or not it was, it is and it will be in future.Even in madrasa in Bangladesh somosexuliity is being practised but common people are kept silent.
Pakistan Iran And Afghanistan my country is full of gays alll men all homosexual.! But no one talks about it or understands it.!!! Even the ones that are gays/ lesbians.!!!
Homosexuality was, is and will be. People are always trying to bury one’s head in the sand. It happens anywhere even in the most religious places. Sexuality is part of life
Patriarchal societies have a problem with most of human sexuality, because they have always needed to repress and control it. To repress female sexuality, and repress homo- and bisexuality. BUT some societies bring this to the point of barbarism and persecution, other ones develop tolerance in various degrees. I like medieval islamic societies much better than contemporary ones!
Wrong, Humans have a tendency to be degenerate. This includes the wild spectrum that leads to this. So, it is a part of life, but its not a correct path. Its a path, like a murderer is a murderer and a grapist is a grapist. Theyre both wrong, but they are a part of life, an effect of a failing society.
Well its inaccurate since islam is a religion and anyone can be muslim. And the quran is not a history book. so if he is talking history search the talk about the region. And not the religion @Homoshambala
@@toastghost6960 As a muslim I dont think the Quran is just a religion book, it is a history book as it tells us in 80% of it about ancient civilizations, tribes and nations, those who arent muslims who should see it as just a religion book. The islamic world IS in fact not a religious place but a geographical place where mjority inhabitants identify themselves as muslims. The term ISLAM is now and have always been used to talk about the religion but also the geo-political side of the notion. We can mean with the term islam the religion, and we can also mean with the term islam the state, the society etc.
@leonardteik5028 as a muslim myself as well. I would not call the quran a history book. It has science and philosophy. From where did you get the study to call it 80% historical ? It also has history but its not a hitorical book. Neither is it scientific of philosophical. If a guy from irland turns muslim he would get confused as to what was going on and in where. In the vid he is talking about the islamic world as a region. When islam is spread and will be spread. But a region has boarders and a time frame. When you dont distinguish the region from the religion. Thats a big issue.
Thank you for specifically excluding the pederasty. Some people romanticize ancient Greece for a supposed tolerance of homosexuality, but it was much more the open secret and the pederasty was not only common but institutional, especially in Sparta. If you want to pick the best time to be gay in that would probably be today in Europe or the Americas. Recorded history has several isolated pockets where you could be Queer in public but it's really only now that it's being accepted most places. (Edit: If you have something to say make it constructive or helpful else leave me alone.)
@@stadiamak692 People who say that never follow through and say that straight people didn't exist either. Imagine that, people having different words and concepts throughout time and space. You're also wrong; today is not the first time that there are sexuality terms which are nouns (there's even an example in this video).
@@elbasado481 If you live in America or Europe today the women considered most attractive are curvy with large chests and behinds. If you go to the same places thirty or forty years ago the women considered most attractive are trim and athletic. In the 1950s thinness was considered undesirable. Today having a tan is attractive, but centuries ago being pale as the moon was attractive. A couple hundred years ago in Iran masculinity in women was attractive but now a more western preference is adopted. The point is that ideas of what is attractive change. In ancient Greece the culture idealized youthfulness while also being very misogynist. This allowed p*dophilia to be a bigger problem and eventually became part of the culture. Today you see young girls being sexualized more and more (look at the clothing options in stores and you'll see). It's possible that a future America could have the same problem but I don't think it's likely to get that bad because women and children have more rights now. In short: teenage boys are the same, any time any place. If you like men and don't grow out of attraction to teenage boys as you grow up you have a problem. If your society forces children to be sexual before they're ready you have a bigger problem. And obviously it's nothing to do with sexual orientation, which is why I am glad that the video didn't talk about it.
I think you might be excluding certain examples of cultures where it was good to be homosexual both socially and spiritually. The first ones that come to mind are the various indigenous American(continent) cultures whose concepts of gender and sexuality fall under the modern English label Two-Spirit. Prior to European colonization, there were many examples of culture where sexual and gender minorities were completely accepted and celebrated. They had important roles in spiritual practices and in the functioning of their communities. Homophobia and Transphobia has been a major cultural shift for many communities as a result European( and Christian) colonialism.
It's interesting how homosexuality has become a lot more accepted in Europe, North America and even parts of South America, but it's gone the other way around completely in the Islamic world. Although same sex marriage was never legal and it was never accepted like it is now in my country of the UK, homosexuality seems to have been at least tolerated. Thank you for making this very interesting video, it was neutral too, which is important when looking at history. Whether you think it's a sin or you're very pro-LGBTQ+, history MUST be looked at neutrally.
It has everything to do with civilizational collapse in the Arab and Iranian world combined with a very negative reaction to European colonialism. The religious fanaticism that has become part of modern Islam is a kind of Anti-Western, anti-colobislism. It's just not a very intellectual variety of those modern political trends.
Doesn't exactly help that we conquered the world in our judgemental prudish eugenicist medicalisation phase as a nation and codified oppression of minorities wherever we went. What is happening to LGBTQ people in Uganda right now is the fault of the Ugandan Anglican church, Colonisation and legal and moral frameworks inherited from British occupation.
Same sex marriage is not the only measure of more tolerant attitudes towards homosexuality / bisexuality. It's just the modern measure in the liberal democracies of the world. Maybe the "gold standard.".
They definitly seem to have degernerated compared to the rest of the world. Which is quite wild, I wonder when they will have their own reformations or it will just happen gradually throughout time. I fear we will all be dead though if it doesn't happen sooner than later
Christian here,a lot of christians were also in denial about the unusual frequency of homosexuality in monastic orders and the feudal systems(like some english kings) despite the unequivocal condemnation of homosexuality by almost all christian schools.People simply are unwilling to embrace their history especially now where religious identity and politics are merging together
both in christian and islamic world have gay monarch/ influencial people and we couldn't deny that but the recent LBTG++ movement will say "this sultan/monarch/pope is doing the gay!! so its allowed in this religion!!" soo... now we have the same struggle for both muslim and christians facing these kind of shallow arguments.
@@alpacacomentadora413 If you believe that, you, my closed-minded friend are already in hell and you don't even realise it. Oh by the way doesn't Christianity teach you not to judge others -- oops... you just did what Jesus asked you not to do. Some friend of Jesus you are!
It is very important to understand that in most of the Islamic world until very recently and in some countries even right now (Afghanistan etc) friends hold hands while walking and embrace all the time. But it would be very wrong to think that they are involved with each other. The same goes to Sufis, 99% times the love between a sufi master and a disciple is just that, a spiritual union and has absolutely nothing sexual. I moved to Germany from Pakistan for education and trust me I had to stop embracing people consciously as it was awkward as hell because it is so common in Pakistani culture but it is just that a matter of showing love and respect. just like kissing cheeks in arabs and Iranians.
Oh, that's just a shame... I hate how unsociable Germany can be at times. For some reason, we reject the idea of showing our love and appreciation for others so openly. But maybe you could help change that?
@J B I'm not sure whether you are referring to “French kissing” or "French" kissing, but I'd like to empathize that the European way of kissing friends on their cheeks is not of homosexual nature. And even if it was, that would be no reason to hate on it.
@@fairplay3430 Exactly, Middle East rarely flipped, only the corrupt, decadent and deluded rulers of Middle Eastern states that ended up practicing homosexuality until it backfired and the next rulings and society became even more adamant to be anti-gay stuffs, especially in all three of Muslim, Christian and Jewish rulings
@@ahurali5185 im sorry if you misunderstood the situation. Europe and America destroyed "the middle east". It isn't in it's dark ages, it is in the middle of colonial agression and of fighting back
@@RESTITVTOR_TOTIVS_HISPANIAE The middle east is not ''in the middle of colonial aggression''. Man you people of the ''global south'' are really pathetic sometimes. Incapable of taking responsibility for your actions and analyzing your situation objectively. Your boiling hatred of the ''EVIL WHITE MAN'' and anti-Westernism is blinding you. The middle east has been destroyed since the mongols and the turks sacked its biggest cities repeatedly from the 13th to 17th century and has never recovered since. The colonial era played its role as well, but was only one out of many many factors. Next thing you're gonna blame America and Europe for the slavery of black Africans that is still going on in some middle eastern countries, it wouldn't surprise me.
As a gay exmuslim, this made me giggle 😁 I love how many people are uncomfortable facing the TRUTH... anyways great video thank you so much for teaching Muslims and the world about Islamic history 💚
Oh, and it's really nice to know that without us actually knowing the history, I used to exchange sufi poetry with my ex back when we were teenagers 😅 it was the only thing available for us that is written by men for men and in ARABIC 🏳️🌈
You're my go to for learning about controversial topics regarding Islam from an insider's perspective. Most people tend to go hard in one direction when talking about this stuff
@@AdEl-kj8uc He wants insider perspective that is aligned with what he believes in. (did I mention Jarrett Lowery probably considers him open minded because he is listening to this Almuqadimmah guy)
I lived in Saudi Arabia and the UAE from 2010 to 2018 and never received more gay sexual advances anywhere else in the world. The advances were generally divided into two parts: straight men needing sexual release and genuine gay men. The incidence of innate homosexuality was much higher. Most of my gay friends there spoke about "first gay experiences" happening at about the age of 10, often with friends of the same age, but many spoke of pederastic experiences without feeling abused. Abusive experiences were plentiful, too.
It could be because there is strict segregation between men and women. So that is why they are just desperate and not just homosexuals. There are many like this in Afghanistan and Pakistan as well. Women are made to sit at home and usually accompanied by a male guardian and there is no culture of dating as such. Even schools are gender segregated which gives you a clear idea that most of the time they are in company of men only.
Allah mentions in the Qur'an the events and causes of the destruction of the Lut community, including homosexuality. Therefore, a true Muslim cannot indulge in such vile deeds.
So many of these comments are praise and gratitude and it's honestly well deserved. People have such an appetite for this type of historical educational content; free of the narrow homogenous lens we've been primed to view history through. So in earnest, I'll join in and throw a 'Thank you and keep up the good work!' to the pile. :)
It's a sad sign of the sorry state of mind that plagues the muslim community when half of it is falling over itself to praise someone simply talking about a few historical facts, acclaiming it as "courageous" and "brave", and the other half of it is foaming at the mouth over someone simply talking about a few historical facts, denouncing it as "depraved" and "malicious"
The Problem that we Muslims don't Consider it as "Historical Facts" but Rather "Western Propaganda" or more like "Western Rumors\Myths" that has no real historical evidence.
@@Emir_969 But it's recorded in Arab and Turkish sources written by Turks and Arabs. It's also why there are so many words for gay in the arabic dialects.
I don't think it's courageous to talk about these facts in _general_ but knowing the channel's main audience, this specific piece of history is pretty interesting to point out because many in the comments will bicker about its accuracy and or the fact that it's even mentioned along side Middle-Eastern history in relation to Islam.
@@innitbruv-lascocomics9910 Exactly. And that points to a huge problem. No Christian thinks that it is either brave nor malicious to point out that genocides were committed by the Christian West, but Muslims are wetting themselves over someone pointing out that were some gay people.
@@innitbruv-lascocomics9910 This channel is full of videos talking about the Islamic world's conquests, colonialism, massacres, unjust wars and persecution of minorities and no one bats an eyelid. Then there's a video about how some people liked it up the bum and everyone's going mental.
Some people in the comments try to defend this video by saying "it is what it is, we should not sugarcoat history" etc. Sugarcoat what exactly? There is no need to sugarcoat homosexuality or bisexuality etc. It is a benign occurrence both in our society and nature and does not need any justification/excuse. I am looking forward to seeing more videos about how bisexuality is actually far more widespread than we think (all studies I can find about sexual orientation are of the self-reporting kind).
@@Grotomode Don't you think you own the responsibility of proving irrefutably, that the behavior is "benign"? Don't you think you own the responsibility of irrefutably proving your claim to the said "benign" behavior, being a "reality".
@@davem5308 Not really. In science we don't go about assuming things are not benign and then try to prove they are benign. Quite the opposite. Especially in social sciences where we know stigmatization due to prejudice is very common.
@@davem5308 it quite literally is benign. Nothing about homosexuality or bisexuality brings anyone any harm. All negative aspects are from outside sources; intolerance, lack of acceptance, etc. It is literally the equivalent of being born with blue eyes vs green ones
Your videos always teach me (someone who was raised in eastern Europe) a history that I was never taught in school and it's super fascinating I really wish we learned more about different cultures in history class
Sorry to say, but this is inocorrect. Either this guy cannot understand urdu and persian literature, or he never bothered to read the said poetry and the context behind it.
بسم لله الرحمن الرحيم CHAPTER 27 VERSES 55_59 وَلُوْطًا اِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهٖٓ اَتَأْتُوْنَ الْفَاحِشَةَ وَاَنْتُمْ تُبْصِرُوْنَ And (remember) Lout (Lot)! When he said to his people. Do you commit Al-Fahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy, etc.) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen, etc.)?" اَىِٕنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُوْنَ الرِّجَالَ شَهْوَةً مِّنْ دُوْنِ النِّسَاۤءِ ۗبَلْ اَنْتُمْ قَوْمٌ تَجْهَلُوْنَ Do you approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly." فَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهٖٓ اِلَّآ اَنْ قَالُوْٓا اَخْرِجُوْٓا اٰلَ لُوْطٍ مِّنْ قَرْيَتِكُمْۙ اِنَّهُمْ اُنَاسٌ يَّتَطَهَّرُوْنَ There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: "Drive out the family of Lout (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!" فَاَنْجَيْنٰهُ وَاَهْلَهٗٓ اِلَّا امْرَاَتَهٗ قَدَّرْنٰهَا مِنَ الْغٰبِرِيْنَ So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind. وَاَمْطَرْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ مَّطَرًاۚ فَسَاۤءَ مَطَرُ الْمُنْذَرِيْنَ ࣖ And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned. قُلِ الْحَمْدُ لِلّٰهِ وَسَلٰمٌ عَلٰى عِبَادِهِ الَّذِيْنَ اصْطَفٰىۗ ءٰۤاللّٰهُ خَيْرٌ اَمَّا يُشْرِكُوْنَ ۔ Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Praise and thanks be to Allah, and peace be on His slaves whom He has chosen (for His Message)! Is Allah better, or (all) that you ascribe as partners (to Him)?" (Of course, Allah is Better). CHAPTER 29 VERSES 28_31 وَلُوْطًا اِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهٖٓ اِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُوْنَ الْفَاحِشَةَ ۖمَا سَبَقَكُمْ بِهَا مِنْ اَحَدٍ مِّنَ الْعٰلَمِيْنَ And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people: "You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns)." اَىِٕنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُوْنَ الرِّجَالَ وَتَقْطَعُوْنَ السَّبِيْلَ ەۙ وَتَأْتُوْنَ فِيْ نَادِيْكُمُ الْمُنْكَرَ ۗفَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهٖٓ اِلَّآ اَنْ قَالُوا ائْتِنَا بِعَذَابِ اللّٰهِ اِنْ كُنْتَ مِنَ الصّٰدِقِيْنَ Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer (travellers, etc.)! And practise Al-Munkar (disbelief and polytheism and every kind of evil wicked deed) in your meetings." But his people gave no answer except, that they said: "Bring Allah's Torment upon us if you are one of the truthful." قَالَ رَبِّ انْصُرْنِيْ عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْمُفْسِدِيْنَ ࣖ He said: "My Lord! Give me victory over the people who are Mufsidun (those who commit great crimes and sins, oppressors, tyrants, mischief-makers, corrupts). وَلَمَّا جَاۤءَتْ رُسُلُنَآ اِبْرٰهِيْمَ بِالْبُشْرٰىۙ قَالُوْٓا اِنَّا مُهْلِكُوْٓا اَهْلِ هٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةِ ۚاِنَّ اَهْلَهَا كَانُوْا ظٰلِمِيْنَ ۚ And when Our Messengers came to Ibrahim (Abraham) with the glad tidings they said: "Verily, we are going to destroy the people of this [Lout's (Lot's)] town (i.e. the town of Sodom in Palestine) truly, its people have been Zalimun [wrong-doers, polytheists and disobedient to Allah, and have also belied their Messenger Lout (Lot)]." بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم Like that guy wich is doing curraption every Saturday he's in the beginning did rape a girl he did go to prison he did give he's body to prisoners to rape him then he started being a gay half gay half sexual with women he's girlfriend was allowing him to do sex with her to make him stay away from those practices enchalah but she fails and she can tell people about that she didn't once more for not destroying he's life he did left her then he started selling himself for money and he became a purely gay wants just men may all Allah guides him he's also did lied to the girl that I did love and stand with when she was having cancer ,he's from tunisa that girl is from America I did know him before a year I didn't know about all of those things one time I was in my house in December 2021 my friends from omrane tells me to stay away from him then I understand what's he's really are I did forget about that maybe he would change maybe he would become a men what did he do he did mockery against me when I be with my freinds in my city they called him play I did know now why they do that I have proofs against him but I wouldn't show that to anyone maybe he's be guided someday he's life can be destroyed I even let him to be with the girl from America that I love I want him to marry her and stay away from mishelf, please pray with me o people's maybe God guides this person I can lie just like him and play with the feelings of the people's but I do not because my mom raised a men he's also from being in America and married he wants to leave islam and be Christian for this purpose even when I showed him this I didn't tell him the truth about him and what I know but I showed him this maybe he's being guided:Trinty is association. God is not eqaul to anyone and God doesn't need anything to complete him. 1+1+1=3 1 is perfect The perfect have to be just 1 because he doesn't need anything to complete him or it's not worthy of any worship angels are servants of God So us prophets and this is the truth . enchalah I don't care if he's being a Christian but at least I care about he's safety for being from the people's of LUT this would affect he's life badly would not have a family or kids Please pray for him. Because there's no compulsion in religion CHAPTER 2 VERSE 256 لَآ اِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّيْنِۗ قَدْ تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَنْ يَّكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوْتِ وَيُؤْمِنْۢ بِاللّٰهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقٰى لَا انْفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗوَاللّٰهُ سَمِيْعٌ عَلِيْمٌ There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
It's easy to be homosexual in the Muslim world, because men and women don't often socialize together. Unless it's a family event. When A bunch of men hang out together, there is bound to be mischief.
no its not bullshit ...you muslims like to play with eachothers under the table until is marriage time. Internet is exposing your double lives do you know the bachi bazi parties in afghanistan?? or you dont want to know😂😂 @@RyhanMuhammad-bb2xh
As a gay man, this was enlightening. Us LGBTQ+ folks have existed since there has been humanity and I love it when our history is celebrated from multiple perspectives. Thank you for this.
it is very hard to find a proper documentation or a narration that isn't soaked with bias. this was full of facts and historical moments. thank you sir.
You, Sir, have an arid wit - it is a delight to laugh in such a context. Thank you for presenting so well the historical root-system of homo-eroticism in Islam, as you are playing to a tough crowd, and I say BRAVO! What is it about all those artists and mystics, eh?💐
Demystification is so very important toward education. Best of luck getting the message out there, it’s a real mess in our world so many harbour such hatred and destruction.
i just want to say that even now, in islamic societies in the middle east and south asia men may kiss eachother's cheek and hold hands as a sigh as 'brotherhood', it's a platonic sign still done today
Honestly very shocked at how well you handled the vid!!! You approaching this subject shows lots of courage and you handling it so well shows how much skill you developed while growing this channel. AMAZING JOB! -I do hope you give us some more lives the last one was more than a year ago 💔
my parents are heavily muslims and even they say "i don't think it's okay, but it's their life and all lives are precious." (talking about my gay friend) and i heard the same thing from all of my muslims relatives aswell! I dislike most men so it's funny whenever they ask me about a boyfriend, they're like: "are you gay? just so you know we (my uncle and his family, my cousins, my aunt, my distant relatives, etc.) we don't care about that stuff. we just want you to be happy" only misguided religions would be hateful towards living being!!
some muslims are wrong because they are taught by the prophet to hate the sin and not the sinner. They believe the God prohibits things for good reasons, and islam also puts familial relationships and having offspring in great regard and that indulging in sexual pleasures or any pleasures too much will corrupt the human self. Even so, hating people for what they do should be seen as wrong
@@yuwyu4841what??? So it’s okay to also hate the sinner treat them like shit and ruin their lives for something so dumb and shouldn’t even be a big deal???!!! That makes no sense, they explain it again. Are you homophobic yes or no :)
Misunderstood! Sounds we have been living the wrong way ever since mankind were created. Oh! You know what it might actually be a mistake from god, there should've been only one gender why complicate it? Is that right Mr. Cogito?
As a non-muslim with an interest for history, this was very interesting and the first time I heard about the topic of homosexuality and how much it changed in the muslim world.
@@fallasleep9472cheating is also frowned upon and look at how much your grandfather’s generation did it. We like to think people follow what’s frowned upon, but there are LOTS of “open secrets”. Even VICTORIANS had sexual secrets that were crazy to us. The US finding fathers had outright heretical Christian beliefs if not close to atheists, but what happens in public is not the same as in private. We all think politicians stealing money is frowned upon, does that mean it’s less common today?
@@yucol5661 What happens in the bedroom is no one's problem, I'm talking about public display of that sort of things. Also, most of the people bring up these things do it in order to further a certain agenda or present a place or people in a negative light so no, not buying that excuse of an argument.
It seems that the early Muslims had the same attitude toward homosexuality as the Romans did. While being attracted to and having sex with men is no shame, the heterosexual family and the duty to reproduce was paramount.
It makes sense. They were influenced by Greeks, Romans and Persians. The practice is common today in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan. Although it's usually men and boys.
@@B10101 Yes, but it is hinted at in Islam as well. Just as with the full breasted virgins, you will be served wine by beautiful young servant boys in Paradise. This could be interpreted as a promised reward of martyrdom or belief by saying that although these things are forbidden now if you are loyal to Islam you can indulge in them in Paradise and it will not be haram. It could have been a strategy used to get more men who indulged in those practices to follow Islam.
A very enlightening video! I'm very interested in the history of sexuality in different parts of the world, and it was remarkable to hear that the harsher view on same-sex relationships was pretty much simultaneous with the same thing happening in China and Japan (where those relationships hadn't even ever been illegal or seen as sinful). In the case of Japan and China it's very clear that it's the European influence during that time, but rather than Christianity being the influence it was the new ideas of sexuality that started to be developed along with the field of psychology in the mid 19th century. The ideas that homosexuality was a disease or a deformation of the mind became popular and spread to the areas of European cultural influence.
@H H how on earth did you manage to get through this entire video (assuming you've even watched it at all) and arrive at such a ridiculous and brain-dead conclusion?
@@betsyab121 no no the original poster is only explaining _why_ homosexuality was viewed as sinful towards the 19th century; it's not an opinion. they're not really condemning it
@@julia2k8 It’s been normal over most of the western world. Gays can marry, keep jobs, have their own businesses. They are featured prominently in popular music, television and the movies. They can even walk down the street holding hands. And you’re saying this isn’t an indication of normalization? Are you joking? They couldn’t do this fifty years ago. What planet are you from?
I've met gay Muslim guys from Islamic countries. And yes, they exist. A lot of times it's very difficult for them to reconcile their faith and their sexuality.
@@fallasleep9472It’s difficult to want to do something and feel uncomfortable doing something else, but being a part of a religion that demands conformity to what would be felt as uncomfortable. It would also feel like a curse, no? Being stuck in such a position when you are born with something that your religion sees as sin.
@@smartstudyingdoggo9031 we as muslims believe this world is a test and Allah tests those he loves the most the hardest to see of their faith is strong, and yes that includes gay people. Even if they commit the sin, if they sincerely have regrets, then their forgiveness will be for sure accepted. Even as heterosexuals, we have tendency to go flirt and sleep around with the opposite sex, but we are told to avoid that and things which would lead to that act.
@@fallasleep9472 that there shows where the discomfort lies. Regret is a required part of forgiveness for the sin of homosexuality. Therefore, you must regret something that is a part of you. To be morally righteous as a gay Muslim you must be self-loathing, unfortunately.
@@smartstudyingdoggo9031 Nice way of twisting my words, my guy. There are people with murderous tendencies which are natural to them, it doesn't mean it's moral for them to go and hurt people. And how the heck did you come to the conclusion that regretting is the same as self loathing? Allah wouldn't give you a chance to repent for your sins if all He wanted was self loathing from you since that would be torture. And I was talking about the act of homosexuality, not the attracting part, which completely went over your head. Also, being gay isn't your identity so the idea that you can't possibly control it is as ridiculous a claim you can make.
This is very sensitive topic in the islamic world and it's good to see it discussed and explained so well 👍 interesting to note that the Sultanate had fined homosexuality while the Christendom had death penalty in the same era. Indeed, it seems the post mediaeval and 19th century European control over the middle east has solidified the harsh stance against homosexuality from maghreb to the lavent and even india.
Has very little to do with European influence and more to do with the fall of the predominantly sufi empire (ottoman empire). Orthodox Muslims existed all over the muslim world but we're not in positions of power until very recently.
By the Greeks Romans christians crusaders male Arab ass play goat sex lamb sex they had to fulfill the sexual needs without a wife then they come to America and they really can do they filthy deeds in dirty America
I remember reading years ago about this subject, way before the current relegated Islamic jihad wars of the 20th century. In it, Islamic communities often allowed upstanding homosexual couples to Foster or adopt orphans, both boys and girls, to provide the communities most isolated and poor children with what we would call today a blended family. This way the communities orphans had a family, home, security and could get a proper education, and the clans and tribes kept their unity and cohesion, and fulfilled the prophets teachings and protections for the tribes orphans who would otherwise end up ostracised and likely to die from neglect and starvation.
There’s another reason as to why Sufi poetry is mostly “men loving men.” The allegorical language of such poetry was devised in a way to convey the Love for God using observable phenomena, specially the beauty of god’s creatures: flowers, food, landscapes, people, etc. So naturally the servants, the dancers, the musicians, the cup bearers and such who attended the Sufi circles where gazed upon as a reflection of the divine. And obviously women were not allowed in these gatherings, so it was always male poets using male servants/dancers as an allegory for god.
There is also a heavy emphasis on loving those close to God. A lot of the poetry could be misunderstood as homosexual when it is a platonic love for ones teachers, seniors and/or peers. Not that I'm saying it doesn't happen. Just that a lot of it is easy to misunderstand. One sufi asked to kiss a man's tongue because he has taught hadeeth for decades and was the foremost senior teacher in hadeeths. Other examples, less unusual ones, like kissing hands and feet, etc are normalised and can be misunderstood.
@@ferone2ashy That is true, I’m not Muslim, I’m an Irish American Catholic but from my understanding in some parts of the Islamic world men are more affectionate with one another, ie male friends holding hands. I think that at least for some of us westerners in our culture we’d call “homosexual behavior” or non-typical behavior between men in our culture. All in all this video was great and I found it super interesting as a high school history teacher.
Quran itself is written by many scholars, there is no way if there is any truth about this book. Even the Mecca Mosque is made after 900 AD. So, the modern Islam is man-made.
What i really like about history as a history student is that we are the keepers and witnesses of evolution. We do not present arguments, to fit a narrative, and cement a political view. We tell you what happened before you were here to dispute it. We guard the truth against subjectivity and bias.
I just happened to come across with this channel. I would say that this is a well done research. Sad to say that most of the commentators haven't really understood the video presentation or at least its contents. This is an ANTHROPOLOGICAL approach which is carefully delivered and which should merit in all senses. So if you notice guys,... THEOLOGICAL COMMENTS DIVIDE AND POLEMICAL. That's a bad theology or it's not even theology at all. It's fundamentalism and doesn't really unify.
What a well done research. Have you verified it to say that its well done, any idea where he got his words? I guess as long as you have good visuals and put some arab names that and it has Islam in it that its 100% true.
Ottoman poet Enderûnlu Fâzıl (1757-1810) wrote about lesbian love and sex in all-female bath houses of late 18th century Istanbul, as well as his overtly homoerotic work.
Love the beautiful artwork you have used in this presentation. To our modern minds with belief in civil rights, the use of class differences and dominance concerns me. One wonders how much freedom of choice the less dominant person had in many of these cases. In Siwa, Egypt, there was an interesting situation where isolation and lack of women could result in two men being recognized as partners.
Even if there are more women than men, majority of men still isolate themselves as they perceive women as inferior and only men can accomplish love and friendship in most ancient cultures.
@@mikejohn29mjwell extremely misogynistic cultures do tend to learn towards pederasty.. Since masculinity is deemed superior, they think masculinity is the only Identity deserving of love..
@@putaromason5234 because sexually is not something that we should be celebrate, it is something that should stay behind bedroom's door, sexually means with who you sleep and public shouldn't be informed about this. If you sleep with men, thats ur right, but there is no need to tell public about it.
@@kserial8491 Hetero people do that all the time. Like all the time but do u get killed for it??? Nooo. Do Hetero people have no representation of it???Nooo. Do you get arrested for showing off ur pregnancy??? Noooo.It should be celebrated because it's such a beautiful thing. It's not something that needs to be hidden. Come back with an actual argument 🙄
With regard to sufism and homosexuality there is also a heavy emphasis on loving those close to God. A lot of the poetry could be misunderstood as homosexual when it is a platonic love for ones teachers, seniors and/or peers. Not that I'm saying it doesn't happen. Just that a lot of it is easy to misunderstand. One sufi asked to kiss a man's tongue because he has taught hadeeth for decades and was the foremost senior teacher in hadeeths. Other examples, less unusual ones, like kissing hands and feet, etc are normalised and can be misunderstood. One of the books I have of deobandi sufis is called muhabbat naamey meaning 'love letters' which contains alot of love for ones peers and elders. Yet it is all platonic love. Just something interesting about the sufi culture.
Yes, a lot of times we do tend to look at such gestures as purely homosexual or homo erotic but many here in the western world has certainly seen instances of a man being so Overjoyed with good news that they jokingly say out loud "I COULD KISS YOU!" This isn't to also mention the fact that it was also acceptable under comedic displays early on in American Cinema and even cartoons for someone to be so excited and overjoyed that they blindly kiss the very person next to them which tends to be another shocked man.
@@zoybean Rasool Allah said that Allah can take work of his deen (religion) even from an unjust and bad person. Not of a big surprise if some Sufi converted a man to Islam. Thousands of people are converted to Islam after reading Quran which are printed on the press invented by non Muslims. It does not mean that we start saying that non Muslims are right only because they became a source for the guidance of those who accepted Islam. Most of sufis have propagated non Islamic beliefs in Muslim community and Allah will indeed punish them for their stupidity unless He forgives for He is the most merciful.
@@isahisahk5459 it was always condemned, even before the 1900s. It just wasn't punished because we had more humanity then and less barbaric legislation. Back before the callous Brit's shamed us into murdering our own people because they like to suck some dick.
@@vaishnavisingh9244and the general attitude was aligned with the Quran and Hadiths. Did homosexuality happen maybe but very very rare and certainly not normalized
I agree. As a history student it's kinda sad to see how history is taught in school. Eeverything seem to be just remember this, remember that. You don't have to fully remember years or names of everyone in history, you'll forget it all right after the exam. There are books for that and the internet. Our history is beautiful and tragic and sad and full of wonders. If only we learn it for the sake of learning.
@@AeliusCaesar but do you not noticeable difference and hypocrisy on the outrage people have about this act of haram vs others. The amount of outrage in hate you get for talking about substance abuse in the Islamic world is vastly different than homosexuality
Very well done. I am glad this is available. I only wish that there was a mention that it isn't something abstract or something you choose. People are born straight or gay and some can funtion along the spectum and enjoy both sexes. A lot of the modern world understands this, while vast parts of the world does not understand. Ask any straight person, if they go on about homosexuality being a choice...let them finish and then ask when they chose to be straight. The are often left gobsmacked. Many thanks for this valuable input to the topic. Again, well done. Cheers
You never know if those homophobic bigots will defend themselves by saying shit like "it's aDam aNd eVe aNd nOt aDam aNd sTeVe so we chose to be correct by choosing to become straight"
@@alchemistbrotv1707 even heterosexual sex without intention of bearing child is immorality then. The purpose of sex is to create progeny then by that logic even heterosexual people shouldn't do sex more than 10 times in their life. If you are using a condom or if you are having sex with a girl who is not on her ovulatory period, then that means you are simply doing sex for your own pleasure which is selfish and immoral. You all better control your lust, your sin, before preaching homosexuals to control their feelings/sin!
@@SkinnyGuyDahn I do not believe that. Having sex between a husband and his wife is permissible and is one of the pleasures and ways God has allowed people to express their desires. However, men and men can not have sex, as this is not permissible.
My Best friend is gay & he is Muslim in their tribe some LGBT muslims are gaining acceptance from their society,,,, and I also notice that the head of their family now is their mother, which is different from their patriarchal traditions
I'm part of the LGBTQ and I love history and watching religious and cultural reference to homosexuality. I find this fascinating and I hope there's also a Christian part of this. I have never encounter a Catholic or Christian historical topics for homosexuality.
@Sanctus Paulus 1962 its all over most Muslim countries, some consume it in hotel bars and have it at home away from preying eyes. I personally don't support alcohol but I don't think its right to lie on gods name and say he prohibited when in the quran its not prohibited stricty, though advised to avoid it. Its cultural to not drink anyway, our ancient culture tolerated wine but we still did not consume it as much as other cultures did.
Now that I've actually watched the video, I have to say, I really loved it! It means a lot to me that you are willing to talk about this subject at all. If you don't mind, I have a small recommendation! If you haven't already come across it, you may enjoy the paper Medieval Arab Lesbians and Lesbian-Like Women by Sahar Amer, which discusses this exact subject. I found it quite interesting.
@Trinty destroyer There was and there's really no point denying it, the important thing is that we must know that it is forbidden in Islam and not to practice it
One thing to note that while the punishment in the UK certainly was death, oftentimes judges will put "death recorded" and admit a less punitive sentence. I remember this because there was an author who blundered by writing an entire book about the criminalisation of homosexuality who had taken it to the publishers and had to have her mistake corrected live on radio!
Homosexuality existed and continues to exist in Islamic world. However, from religion point of view, it's clear in the Quran that any homosexual act is a sin.
The art at 1:57 is The Meuzzin by Jean-Leon Gerome (located at the Joslyn Art Museum in Omaha). I was going through my phone literally today and saw a pic of it! I can't believe the synchronicity
I have added some of the sources and further reading suggestions in the description. I read quite a few papers for this so, if you want more details on a particular point, please get in touch with me.
Which papers? Cuz your analysis in my opinion makes a couple of important mistakes, primarily in that you seem to me to be conflating modern concepts of age of consent, the conflation of sodomy and homosexuality as well as not paying much attention to the impractical nature of condemning all forms of homosexuality with the same vigor in pre-modern societies. Let's start with the first point. You explicitly say that men had sex with "underaged children", which projects modern notions of "childhood" into a setting where I wouldn't say they belong. The simple fact of the matter is that modern idea of the "child" and expanding "childhood" to overtake adolescence is a very, very recent development that has been brought on by a previously unprecedented state of wealth and access to medicine. We were at 46% child mortality in 1800 here in the USA and 26% in 1900, and that's just the statistics for children under the age of 5, my friend. I didn't look for statistics for children over 5, but one can certainly imagine that more of them died then than did today for similar reasons. That means that in 1800 if you had 10 children, you could expect to keep about 6, maybe 7... at least until they were 5. In Medieval England we know that the average number of births in the upper class families was around 15 and the number children that could be expected to make it to adulthood was 10-ish while in lower class families it was closer to 6, with often as low as 2 making it to adulthood. The British Statistics are paraphrased from Nicholas Ormes book Medieval Children (and I may be slightly off, but not by much), and the American ones can be found here (www.statista.com/statistics/1041693/united-states-all-time-child-mortality-rate/). With that in mind we might consider then that it was only practical for men to marry women as young as 15 for the widest space for fertility as possible, and indeed most people alive today descend from such unions. Several sets of my own great-grandparents were couples that had gaps of 10-15 and sometimes even 20 years between them, because it can and did often take a man much longer to get himself established enough to be able to afford a wife and children, especially depending on the pressures of his social class. We condemn these sorts of relationships today because there is no practicality behind them in a modern setting, but we forget that this is a high horse we can only sit on because of our unprecedented wealth and access to medicine. A man who took himself til he was 40 to get established was thought of as having achieved the same benefits as any other man who had done so at a younger age or one born established, and that was to have a wife and as many children as he could. If child mortality was that high, we might imagine that the best age then for a girl to be able to secure herself a stable husband would be 14-16, as it often was. So, age-gap relationships were a normal facet of pre-modern times, and one that we look down on from a place of luxury that our ancestors didn't really enjoy. It is a little disrespectful in my mind to those that came before us to paint them all with such a broad brush. With that in mind, when dealing with homosexuality things were no different because it was considered natural and beneficial for a man to be attracted to youth and a homosexual man was just exhibiting that same instinct, just in another direction, and an adolescent was not thought of for most of history as being a kind of child as much as they were a category of adult. We are generally not talking about boys below they age of 14 when referring to this concept, because pederasty was not for most of history viewed as encompassing prepubescent boys where it has manifested, and the acceptability of this behavior has depended heavily on the acceptability of age-gap relationships at large. Times were different, life was often shorter, and just because we live longer on average today and have a lower rate of child mortality, does not mean we are better and more enlightened than people in the past or people in the present who still live under these pressures. On the next point - your conflation of sodomy with homosexuality - I am not clear that this contemporary understanding was the same of people in the Islamic or Christian worlds in the past. If I remember correctly, this conflation was not really considered to be fully synonymous until well into the Post-War Period in the West and still doesn't make sense to a lot of people in different cultures, and even people in what is today the Muslim world. Sodomy for much of history in both the Islamic and Christian worlds has traditionally referred to oral and anal sex. All other sex acts were treated differently, which leaves a lot on the table, sex acts that Sufis and Christian monks alike are known to have written with a sort of guarded but still fairly straightforward openness about. I remember for example the writings of a certain prominent medieval scholar and monk (I can get you the reference, but I am paraphrasing) who once wrote that he was so excited to see the bishop who had been his mentor in youth that he would cover his body in kisses from his naked collar to his ankles... something to that effect. Nicholas Ormes' book Medieval Children also has a section which talks about the common medieval notion that friars (who were usually teenagers or young adults) were known to lure the newest boys into "sin", but then of course we know from other medieval records that sodomy and other homosexual sex acts were not considered in the same category. We also know the Sufi scholar and mystic Ibn Arabi is said to have traced the lines of the body of a youth who appeared to him in Mecca who signaled that he was in fact Allah with a secret gesture who took off his clothes when they were alone and asked him to do so, as it was in his lines that the secrets of being were etched. Let's Talk Religion mentioned this incident in his videos on Wahdat-al-Wujud and on Ibn Arabi proper. Thus, we can imagine at least for a moment that there is more for two men or a man and a youth to get up to than just oral and anal sex, and these were dealt with rather differently, if at all. The word "masturbation" did not originally of course mean to do to oneself, but "to manually stimulate". It was only gradually that it came to this definition, and only gradually that they started to be treated differently at the ethical level. Anyone who has been either a Christian or a Muslim knows of course that masturbation today is generally treated with a sort of quiet disregard for the reality of the situation, and we can certainly see this reflected for what we would call "masturbation" and "mutual masturbation" today in the historical record. Finally, lending to the point that condemning at the same level all homosexual activity of any kind was impractical, this is due primarily to the fact that privacy in the Western sense is a very recently developed concept. For much of history, a private moment was a rare thing. People generally ate, shat, slept and bathed with other people, most often people of the same gender. Parents and children used to sleep in the same room and more often than not even in the same bed, even among the upper classes (although this trend started to change with the latter beginning in about the 1650s), which meant that sex acts of whatever kind might be happening around them at any given time of the night. I think the earliest Western reference to this being inappropriate comes from the Victorian Period, and again this was mostly circulated among the ascendant middle class of the period. So, I'm sure we can imagine what many a teenage boy got up to under the covers whilst sleeping in the same bed with his friends naked with the rest of the family because of the summer heat, and in fact these dynamics are still quite common around much of the world today. In these sorts of circumstances, it would be difficult to conceal sodomy, and so what is considered to be ethical sexual conduct for whatever reason is more easily upheld by peers and family, and because masturbation and other homosexual sex acts were simply not treated the same as sodomy if at all. This is why a good deal of homoerotic Christian and Muslim poetry hints at things like mutual masturbation and even why art from the Ancient World commonly shows men engaged in such sex acts as intercrural sex or mutual masturbation. These sex acts were generally perceived as more acceptable, but sodomy (oral and anal sex) less so, and the idea of putting all people who enjoyed sex acts of any kind with the same sex or ever did at any point into a single category is one that didn't make sense to the general public until after it became the norm for people to start sleeping in separate rooms, at least here in the west. These are very important concepts in understanding the dynamics of pre-modern relationships and especially pre-industrial relationships in history and around the world today. Remember that many people, people who may or may not compose part of your audience (with specific regard to your Muslim audiences, even those in Europe and North America) live under some combination of or perhaps still all of these pressures that we in the West presently do not face at all, and it strikes me I suppose as a little insensitive of us to pass judgment on them and inappropriate to project our ideas onto them. Anyways, take care sir! I hope to hear back you.
hate how this guy tries his hardest to be “western” and “academic”. Even in previous videos he just says “Mohammed” instead of adding salutations to the name of Rasulallah ﷺ. Newsflash for you, you are a confused Pakistani who is miserable failing to appease the white man
Check out Thomas Bauer "A Culture of Ambiguity", he extensively talks about this topic. Marc David Baer and his recent book The Ottomans also covers homosexuality and sexual relations in the Empires of the Ottomans, there you can find additional sources.
Murder...killing...rape fantasy...perversion... peadophilia... natural feelings from nature. You should accept that also. Why call yourself human when same as animals
@@fallasleep9472 Murder is inherently harmful, homosexuality is as sexual as heterosexuality at worst. Besides, you can speak for yourself, I have never had any sort of murderous intent at all, so don't go assuming that everyone has murderous desire.
@@nononope75 If murder is harmful, then so is sodomy since your butt hole ain't made for sexual intercourse. Two wrongs don't make a right. Having murderous thoughts and behaviour has been studied and is inherent in some people, same as homosexuality. I never said people should be condoned for having these, I'm saying they should be condoned for acting upon them.
Nice material. I would caution you about relating Islam to geography. This is an outdated and very orientalist perspective and is unfair to the areas that exchanged political and religious identities in the old world, and is also a very reductive. Modern day Iran has persistently been different from, say the Arab peninsula (perhaps not in relationship to homosexual tendencies) and so is northern Egypt from greater Syria and such. There is a huge relationship between the enforcement of the Catholic and victorian moralities by the colonial powers in Asia and Africa and the change in attitudes towards different sexuality expressions and marriage relationships in the occupied areas. I wish someone would study this objectively.
I was also thinking that. The Arab countries could be used. Or, old world Persian. Arabian people, or Arabian culture, Persian culture. Islam is a religion.
My Syrian or Marocan friends, also have no problem with alcohol, so why should they with gays. Society is able to find a relaxed relation to assumed religious rules.
So in conclusion, Colonialism is to blame for the ripple effect it had on the negative view of Homosexuality. Among it's many negative effects on the human story
Even in European Christian society there's sort of a tacit tolerance of homosexuality between individuals of two different social classes among Conservatives.
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Dude u should be ashamed of ur self,, in Islam in Quran it self it said it is not allowed
@@beepboop204 anyone who do it they aren't muslims anymore, simple as that
@@beepboop204 speak off censorship and canceling culture 🙃 what happened for the Christians people who don't agree with ur political party agenda? Aren't they being censored and being outcasts in their own lands for following their own religion?
@@thewildcat7972 not where i live, no. many religions prohibit murder as well, but murder happens all over the world. i think its ok to talk about things, when they exist, even if they are prohibited by religions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@beepboop204 where I live allot of my neighbors wasterns Christians and Jews who don't agree about what ur corrupt political party with it's big corporations do to their religion's
Some commenters still don't get it. He had mentioned it already, this is not a theology channel. If you are not that open-minded enough to learn about this kind of topic. Don't watch. Easy.
The thing is there are people that is not open-minded but think that they're open minded lol.
So accepting being railed in the ass is considered open minded?
It's all about a person claiming to be Muslim and delivering certain stuff if that stuff goes against the fold of Islam than they are not a Muslim and they can't use that word as their identity anymore
@@fuzailhasan7856 He's just relaying the history of that period, he's not saying he accepts it or condones it himself jeez. You're too judgmental.
@@fuzailhasan7856 you can actually say stuff that goes against the ‘fold of islam’ and still be muslim. Only very intolerant sects of muslims say what you’re saying.
Dumb mfs in the comments still don’t get it lol, he’s talking about HISTORY, not THEOLOGY. He’s talking about the historical role of homosexuality in the Muslim community, not whether it’s right or wrong. You have two ears and two eyes, use them.
bold of you to assume i have two eyes and two ears
Can't imagine how many Surahs and anti-western fanatics are in the comment section.@@Xanna-eo5wq
It is right anyway 😂.
They can cry about it.
Ohhhh this channel deletes comments, I SEE. You have 200 anti west comments a a bunch of people quoting surahs like it's speakers corner in London but do you
Orthodox Muslim here. Yes I agree but saying that it was not abnormal or considered evil by the majority is false
History is based on whatever happened in the past, good or bad is irrelevant. We cannot simply ignore the facts and sugarcoat our history
@@ziyanamjad6664 I think you meant homosexual?
@Mohamed Zayan Damn bro, hope Google translate helps
@Dani Al well there isn’t. Its that simple. How can there be homosexuality? God these people ignorance.
@Dani Al “Another fatherless child”
@Dani Al read the title again, it says "Homosexuality in the Islamic **WORLD**" not "Homosexuality in Islam"
There's a massive difference
Man, the way you were able to present a topic that is often considered extremely sensitive in the most neutral yet respectful way possible (as a queer person myself, I'm really grateful that you took the time to point out that pederasty and homosexuality are two completely different things - sometimes it feels like many today see it as the same thing) is honestly so refreshing. And the fact that your comment section is so respectful is a huge testament to your impartiality. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
I truly liked your comment.
You said “as a queer person”. What does that mean? I know what it’s meant to mean. But my question is, if you can explain it with as much sensitivity as you expressed your thoughts in the comment, could you explain to me what queer means. Does it mean seeing the world in a different way? Is it always related to sexual proclivity. Because most people will say I’m a man or a woman. I am French I am Italian. I truly have no sense of what it would mean to say “I am queer”, other than saying, “I am sexual for things that make me curious in ways that are exciting and not acceptable and I derive an important part of my identity from the result of that in my world” Would you add that or change it? Thank you.
@@Alpha-Andromeda Well. Being part of a marginalised community will always make you see the world differently. I used "queer" in my comment bc it's an umbrella term for everyone in the LGBTQ+ community and therefore won't give away which letter I am exactly. It's a way to protect myself against those who wish harm on people like me - they can't specifically target me if they don't know what I am. This isn't how every queer person thinks, everyone sort of has their own definition of what the word means for them. But no, it isn't always sexual. Most of the time it isn't. The problem is, our community is often reduced to sexuality by those outside of it. Homophobes will be the first to say that the first thing they think of when seeing a gay couple is how disgusting it is that they have sex instead of, you know. Seeing them as just a normal couple.
When we say we're queer, we aren't saying we're a sexuality. We're saying that it's a part of who we are and that we won't let anyone shame us away from it. Queer can also refer to gender, bc some people don't identify as either man or woman, and they use queer and non-binary pretty much interchangeably.
In my case, though, I mentioned being queer in my comment bc it was directly related to the video's topic. It's the same as someone saying "as a [insert race here] person" under a video talking about racial issues. I wanted to thank OP and the comment section for being so respectful when usually, bringing LGBTQ+ topics in a religious setting creates a breeding ground for hate. And it goes back to the first thing I mentioned - my queerness essentially forces me to see the world differently. I put myself in constant danger just being out about it, so I always navigate unfamiliar settings with extreme caution.
Straight people have the luxury of separating their sexuality from their identity bc being straight is considered "the norm" or "default state". It's never really put into question. And you're never in danger of violence just for being straight (you might be for other reasons, but being straight isn't one of them), so it's easy to brush it off. I can't do that. Idk if that makes sense ? English isn't my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across clearly enough. But if you have more questions or want me to clarify other things, feel free to ask. I don't mind answering questions when they come from a place of genuinely wanting to understand, so you don't have to worry about offending me.
@@Alpha-Andromeda You talk like a priveleged straight man who's never experience the lack of validation from society.
@@AoAnliMore power to you Friend 💖
@@AoAnli wonderfully put. 👍🏼
"Men who fell in love with other men and died of heartbreak." ... Mood.
Yeah i can relate once i have crush on a guy and we make out and then he just disappeared never comes back. So then i decided to marry girl. But i prefer both maybe threesome marriage two men and women 😅😂
💀
@@justicethedoggo3648 Pagan homosexual??? wtffffff
I saw the cutest blonde guy this month, he waved his hair, turned his head back to stare at my face with his puppy eyes, making me frozen in love: I was busy, couldn't chase,, we locked eyes for 10 seconds and then he slowly walked into the horizon...
I lost my boy, I lost my lover, I felt he was my soulmate and now the only thing I got about him is a memory. I'm never missing another boy again, ever. 🥲
@@the_kimchi_kommandant2603we men are all bisexuals who only use women to reproduce: females don't love us so the only way is to love, nurture and take care of each other, it's very common in soccer... May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you ✝️
"He spoke out against sodomy, so we can assume he wasn't having sex with men"
Haaaa there's a few dozen pastors I'd like to introduce you to
This alleged "Speaking out against sodomy" or against anything else gay is an old Closet Case ploy. It means diddley. It's like picking a pocket while crying "Look over there!"
😂❤
oh fr, if someone hates too ardently it is always suspicious to me cuz at some point it gotta be the self hate speaking
And some English kings.. who were homosexual but made it illegal
@@ambiasalam9915Sounds like an easy way to gatekeep the attractive men 👀 “its illegal for ANYBODY BUT ME TO BE GAY!”
Homosexuality still exists to this day in the Arab world but same as the old days people don't talk about it and even deny its existence.
But me being an Arab knows very well what goes on in my society, I'm not saying it's wrong or right, I'm just saying it feels similar to the old times... People never acknowledge it yet it's always been around.
Yes, It's very common in every parts of the World even in Bangladesh.whether Islam support it or not it was, it is and it will be in future.Even in madrasa in Bangladesh somosexuliity is being practised but common people are kept silent.
It's actually wrong though, in case you're wondering.
@theemirofaffa2266 based on the quran🏳️🌈
Pakistan Iran And Afghanistan my country is full of gays alll men all homosexual.! But no one talks about it or understands it.!!! Even the ones that are gays/ lesbians.!!!
@@poyipoyixd849
Yeah and the hadiths too
So what is the point you are making?
Homosexuality was, is and will be. People are always trying to bury one’s head in the sand. It happens anywhere even in the most religious places. Sexuality is part of life
Love is love is k it's ok what's the problem let the people live their lives
Then beready for hiv types of deseases
Patriarchal societies have a problem with most of human sexuality, because they have always needed to repress and control it. To repress female sexuality, and repress homo- and bisexuality. BUT some societies bring this to the point of barbarism and persecution, other ones develop tolerance in various degrees. I like medieval islamic societies much better than contemporary ones!
Wrong, Humans have a tendency to be degenerate. This includes the wild spectrum that leads to this. So, it is a part of life, but its not a correct path. Its a path, like a murderer is a murderer and a grapist is a grapist. Theyre both wrong, but they are a part of life, an effect of a failing society.
@@nusratbhat825 You do know that anyone can get HIV, right? HIV is not caused by gay sex.
I'm just here to write that I'm pleasantly surprised that a video with both "homosexuality" and "Islam" in the title got a sponsorship deal
This is not a theological channel. This is not a religious channel. This is looking at history.
@@Homoshambalait's still impressive an advertiser saw that and said yes
Well its inaccurate since islam is a religion and anyone can be muslim. And the quran is not a history book. so if he is talking history search the talk about the region. And not the religion @Homoshambala
@@toastghost6960 As a muslim I dont think the Quran is just a religion book, it is a history book as it tells us in 80% of it about ancient civilizations, tribes and nations, those who arent muslims who should see it as just a religion book. The islamic world IS in fact not a religious place but a geographical place where mjority inhabitants identify themselves as muslims. The term ISLAM is now and have always been used to talk about the religion but also the geo-political side of the notion. We can mean with the term islam the religion, and we can also mean with the term islam the state, the society etc.
@leonardteik5028 as a muslim myself as well. I would not call the quran a history book. It has science and philosophy. From where did you get the study to call it 80% historical ? It also has history but its not a hitorical book. Neither is it scientific of philosophical. If a guy from irland turns muslim he would get confused as to what was going on and in where. In the vid he is talking about the islamic world as a region. When islam is spread and will be spread. But a region has boarders and a time frame. When you dont distinguish the region from the religion. Thats a big issue.
Love the clear headed impartiality. You rarely get this when people talk of religion.
EXACTLY 💯
Or sex, for that matter.
you can love it all you want fa99 it is still not true
@@z123_qqq so it’s bad to be gay, but ok for Muhammad to marry children?
So you’re pro pedophilia?
@@jtgd its not bad its punishable by death
Thank you for specifically excluding the pederasty. Some people romanticize ancient Greece for a supposed tolerance of homosexuality, but it was much more the open secret and the pederasty was not only common but institutional, especially in Sparta. If you want to pick the best time to be gay in that would probably be today in Europe or the Americas. Recorded history has several isolated pockets where you could be Queer in public but it's really only now that it's being accepted most places.
(Edit: If you have something to say make it constructive or helpful else leave me alone.)
Homosexuality wasn't even a thing... Onlyin modern times have we categorized people by their sexual preferences
@@stadiamak692 People who say that never follow through and say that straight people didn't exist either. Imagine that, people having different words and concepts throughout time and space. You're also wrong; today is not the first time that there are sexuality terms which are nouns (there's even an example in this video).
Sometimes i wonder "how cute was teenage boys back then"
@@elbasado481 If you live in America or Europe today the women considered most attractive are curvy with large chests and behinds. If you go to the same places thirty or forty years ago the women considered most attractive are trim and athletic. In the 1950s thinness was considered undesirable. Today having a tan is attractive, but centuries ago being pale as the moon was attractive. A couple hundred years ago in Iran masculinity in women was attractive but now a more western preference is adopted.
The point is that ideas of what is attractive change. In ancient Greece the culture idealized youthfulness while also being very misogynist. This allowed p*dophilia to be a bigger problem and eventually became part of the culture.
Today you see young girls being sexualized more and more (look at the clothing options in stores and you'll see). It's possible that a future America could have the same problem but I don't think it's likely to get that bad because women and children have more rights now.
In short: teenage boys are the same, any time any place. If you like men and don't grow out of attraction to teenage boys as you grow up you have a problem. If your society forces children to be sexual before they're ready you have a bigger problem.
And obviously it's nothing to do with sexual orientation, which is why I am glad that the video didn't talk about it.
I think you might be excluding certain examples of cultures where it was good to be homosexual both socially and spiritually. The first ones that come to mind are the various indigenous American(continent) cultures whose concepts of gender and sexuality fall under the modern English label Two-Spirit. Prior to European colonization, there were many examples of culture where sexual and gender minorities were completely accepted and celebrated. They had important roles in spiritual practices and in the functioning of their communities. Homophobia and Transphobia has been a major cultural shift for many communities as a result European( and Christian) colonialism.
It's interesting how homosexuality has become a lot more accepted in Europe, North America and even parts of South America, but it's gone the other way around completely in the Islamic world. Although same sex marriage was never legal and it was never accepted like it is now in my country of the UK, homosexuality seems to have been at least tolerated. Thank you for making this very interesting video, it was neutral too, which is important when looking at history. Whether you think it's a sin or you're very pro-LGBTQ+, history MUST be looked at neutrally.
It has everything to do with civilizational collapse in the Arab and Iranian world combined with a very negative reaction to European colonialism.
The religious fanaticism that has become part of modern Islam is a kind of Anti-Western, anti-colobislism. It's just not a very intellectual variety of those modern political trends.
Doesn't exactly help that we conquered the world in our judgemental prudish eugenicist medicalisation phase as a nation and codified oppression of minorities wherever we went. What is happening to LGBTQ people in Uganda right now is the fault of the Ugandan Anglican church, Colonisation and legal and moral frameworks inherited from British occupation.
Same sex marriage is not the only measure of more tolerant attitudes towards homosexuality / bisexuality. It's just the modern measure in the liberal democracies of the world. Maybe the "gold standard.".
The Enlightenment contributed to this in Europe and Northern America
They definitly seem to have degernerated compared to the rest of the world. Which is quite wild, I wonder when they will have their own reformations or it will just happen gradually throughout time. I fear we will all be dead though if it doesn't happen sooner than later
Christian here,a lot of christians were also in denial about the unusual frequency of homosexuality in monastic orders and the feudal systems(like some english kings) despite the unequivocal condemnation of homosexuality by almost all christian schools.People simply are unwilling to embrace their history especially now where religious identity and politics are merging together
both in christian and islamic world have gay monarch/ influencial people and we couldn't deny that but the recent LBTG++ movement will say "this sultan/monarch/pope is doing the gay!! so its allowed in this religion!!" soo... now we have the same struggle for both muslim and christians facing these kind of shallow arguments.
The difference is that the Christian God is against LGBT stuffs.
I don't consider catholics to be real christians. Catholics also persecuted christians.
@@alpacacomentadora413 If you believe that, you, my closed-minded friend are already in hell and you don't even realise it. Oh by the way doesn't Christianity teach you not to judge others -- oops... you just did what Jesus asked you not to do. Some friend of Jesus you are!
@@alpacacomentadora413 Cool story mythelot.
It is very important to understand that in most of the Islamic world until very recently and in some countries even right now (Afghanistan etc) friends hold hands while walking and embrace all the time. But it would be very wrong to think that they are involved with each other. The same goes to Sufis, 99% times the love between a sufi master and a disciple is just that, a spiritual union and has absolutely nothing sexual.
I moved to Germany from Pakistan for education and trust me I had to stop embracing people consciously as it was awkward as hell because it is so common in Pakistani culture but it is just that a matter of showing love and respect. just like kissing cheeks in arabs and Iranians.
OK, whatever.
Oh, that's just a shame... I hate how unsociable Germany can be at times. For some reason, we reject the idea of showing our love and appreciation for others so openly.
But maybe you could help change that?
There's a video named why indian men hold hand
Well most in Asia & Africa do this, but it has nothing to do with the two men holding hands being sex partners or lovers
@J B I'm not sure whether you are referring to “French kissing” or "French" kissing, but I'd like to empathize that the European way of kissing friends on their cheeks is not of homosexual nature. And even if it was, that would be no reason to hate on it.
Europe and the Middle East seemed to have flip flopped on their views with homosexuality. Well done. Very informative video.
Who flipped?
@@fairplay3430 Exactly, Middle East rarely flipped, only the corrupt, decadent and deluded rulers of Middle Eastern states that ended up practicing homosexuality until it backfired and the next rulings and society became even more adamant to be anti-gay stuffs, especially in all three of Muslim, Christian and Jewish rulings
@@fairplay3430 The Middle East is in its Dark Ages while Europe is in its Golden Age Lol, (Except for Russia)
@@ahurali5185 im sorry if you misunderstood the situation. Europe and America destroyed "the middle east". It isn't in it's dark ages, it is in the middle of colonial agression and of fighting back
@@RESTITVTOR_TOTIVS_HISPANIAE The middle east is not ''in the middle of colonial aggression''. Man you people of the ''global south'' are really pathetic sometimes. Incapable of taking responsibility for your actions and analyzing your situation objectively. Your boiling hatred of the ''EVIL WHITE MAN'' and anti-Westernism is blinding you. The middle east has been destroyed since the mongols and the turks sacked its biggest cities repeatedly from the 13th to 17th century and has never recovered since. The colonial era played its role as well, but was only one out of many many factors. Next thing you're gonna blame America and Europe for the slavery of black Africans that is still going on in some middle eastern countries, it wouldn't surprise me.
As a gay exmuslim, this made me giggle 😁 I love how many people are uncomfortable facing the TRUTH... anyways great video thank you so much for teaching Muslims and the world about Islamic history 💚
Oh, and it's really nice to know that without us actually knowing the history, I used to exchange sufi poetry with my ex back when we were teenagers 😅 it was the only thing available for us that is written by men for men and in ARABIC 🏳️🌈
Am looking for someone😅can u be
May Allah guide you back to Islam and make fallow guidance Amine
@@DjatouDiawara-z6f may nature guide you away from Islam not amen 🙏
@@Anish_5344 I hope someday you'll find one 💚
This subject is definitely not for everyone… Kuddos to you sir for highlighting this brushed under the carpet subject.
Who do you think shouldn't watch it? And do you want to take action to prevent them from viewing it? Or are you referring to taste and preference.
Not enough frank discussion about the much more terrible problem which is HOMOPHOBIA anywhere it exists.@@nihilioellipsis
Don’t tell this to my arab Muslim friends 😭 apparently this is western values and culture
Where are you from ? Just asking you sounds like you are from India or something like that
@@brahimsadallah2328how? 💀 I’m British and I was going to comment the same thing as this person
@@Rayaann 😂
Westerners accept it, Muslims would kill you for it but doesn’t mean they have any less gays, they’re just scared to say they are gay
@@brahimsadallah2328 Spanish
You're my go to for learning about controversial topics regarding Islam from an insider's perspective. Most people tend to go hard in one direction when talking about this stuff
yeah.. really "hard" 😄
This is definitely not an insider perspective.
@@rosieroti4063 boy shut up this aint the right area 😭😭💀💀
@@AdEl-kj8uc don't be scared they're just cocks in asses
@@AdEl-kj8uc He wants insider perspective that is aligned with what he believes in. (did I mention Jarrett Lowery probably considers him open minded because he is listening to this Almuqadimmah guy)
I lived in Saudi Arabia and the UAE from 2010 to 2018 and never received more gay sexual advances anywhere else in the world. The advances were generally divided into two parts: straight men needing sexual release and genuine gay men. The incidence of innate homosexuality was much higher. Most of my gay friends there spoke about "first gay experiences" happening at about the age of 10, often with friends of the same age, but many spoke of pederastic experiences without feeling abused. Abusive experiences were plentiful, too.
It could be because there is strict segregation between men and women. So that is why they are just desperate and not just homosexuals. There are many like this in Afghanistan and Pakistan as well.
Women are made to sit at home and usually accompanied by a male guardian and there is no culture of dating as such.
Even schools are gender segregated which gives you a clear idea that most of the time they are in company of men only.
Stop the cap 😂
@@JEAGERlST no there is a lot of gays in saudi but they cant say anything cuz its haram and people think its choice not natural
Straight man would not have sex with men. Those men were bisexuals.
Stop the cope arabs like dicks@@JEAGERlST
When I have worked in Kuwait, there I saw a lot of homosexuals, not only arabs but also some are afganistan, pakistan and indians.
And they rape Filipino men.....
Tell me pls
Story please!🤔🤔🤔😏😏😏
Allah mentions in the Qur'an the events and causes of the destruction of the Lut community, including homosexuality. Therefore, a true Muslim cannot indulge in such vile deeds.
@@KONGARBLOGShouldnt have created homosexuality then? I bet you feel little Gay but Allan says you cant so you dont.
So many of these comments are praise and gratitude and it's honestly well deserved. People have such an appetite for this type of historical educational content; free of the narrow homogenous lens we've been primed to view history through. So in earnest, I'll join in and throw a 'Thank you and keep up the good work!' to the pile. :)
Yess!🤔🤔😏😏
It's a sad sign of the sorry state of mind that plagues the muslim community when half of it is falling over itself to praise someone simply talking about a few historical facts, acclaiming it as "courageous" and "brave", and the other half of it is foaming at the mouth over someone simply talking about a few historical facts, denouncing it as "depraved" and "malicious"
The Problem that we Muslims don't Consider it as "Historical Facts" but Rather "Western Propaganda" or more like "Western Rumors\Myths" that has no real historical evidence.
@@Emir_969 But it's recorded in Arab and Turkish sources written by Turks and Arabs. It's also why there are so many words for gay in the arabic dialects.
I don't think it's courageous to talk about these facts in _general_ but knowing the channel's main audience, this specific piece of history is pretty interesting to point out because many in the comments will bicker about its accuracy and or the fact that it's even mentioned along side Middle-Eastern history in relation to Islam.
@@innitbruv-lascocomics9910 Exactly. And that points to a huge problem. No Christian thinks that it is either brave nor malicious to point out that genocides were committed by the Christian West, but Muslims are wetting themselves over someone pointing out that were some gay people.
@@innitbruv-lascocomics9910
This channel is full of videos talking about the Islamic world's conquests, colonialism, massacres, unjust wars and persecution of minorities and no one bats an eyelid. Then there's a video about how some people liked it up the bum and everyone's going mental.
Some people in the comments try to defend this video by saying "it is what it is, we should not sugarcoat history" etc.
Sugarcoat what exactly? There is no need to sugarcoat homosexuality or bisexuality etc. It is a benign occurrence both in our society and nature and does not need any justification/excuse.
I am looking forward to seeing more videos about how bisexuality is actually far more widespread than we think (all studies I can find about sexual orientation are of the self-reporting kind).
"benign" you say.
@@davem5308
Nah it's not what I say. Its reality.
@@Grotomode Don't you think you own the responsibility of proving irrefutably, that
the behavior is "benign"? Don't you think you own the responsibility of irrefutably proving your claim to the said "benign" behavior, being a "reality".
@@davem5308
Not really. In science we don't go about assuming things are not benign and then try to prove they are benign. Quite the opposite. Especially in social sciences where we know stigmatization due to prejudice is very common.
@@davem5308
it quite literally is benign. Nothing about homosexuality or bisexuality brings anyone any harm. All negative aspects are from outside sources; intolerance, lack of acceptance, etc.
It is literally the equivalent of being born with blue eyes vs green ones
WHAT A BREATH OF FRESH AIR.. THANK YOU FOR APPROACHING THE SUBJECT WITH COMMON SENSE AND FACTS . THANKS AGAIN 🙏
Fresh stink, all lies for weak minded people that only follow their desires
This is very sharp, consistent with what one would expect from a textbook or graduate level lecture.
Your videos always teach me (someone who was raised in eastern Europe) a history that I was never taught in school and it's super fascinating
I really wish we learned more about different cultures in history class
I mean the Ottoman Empire and it's laws was present in Eastern Europe too, so it's kinda part of your history too
@@Yanzdorloph ehh, depends which part of Eastern Europe
I'm sure you aren't taught US history as well 😂🤦🏼♂️
@@bryanbradley6871bruh us barely has any history what are you talking about
@@kirilll7806 are you joking? Wow that's racist, because there's people been in the US for 1000s of years
ur so brave for posting this. history is still history
History is often riddled with lies, the Russians dont teach the same history as the US teaches.
Islam hasn't changed, 🏳️🌈 won't be accepted
Sorry to say, but this is inocorrect. Either this guy cannot understand urdu and persian literature, or he never bothered to read the said poetry and the context behind it.
Learned a lot in your video, I greatly appreciate the unbiased, fact-focused narration.
بسم لله الرحمن الرحيم
CHAPTER 27 VERSES 55_59
وَلُوْطًا اِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهٖٓ اَتَأْتُوْنَ الْفَاحِشَةَ وَاَنْتُمْ تُبْصِرُوْنَ
And (remember) Lout (Lot)! When he said to his people. Do you commit Al-Fahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy, etc.) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen, etc.)?"
اَىِٕنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُوْنَ الرِّجَالَ شَهْوَةً مِّنْ دُوْنِ النِّسَاۤءِ ۗبَلْ اَنْتُمْ قَوْمٌ تَجْهَلُوْنَ
Do you approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly."
فَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهٖٓ اِلَّآ اَنْ قَالُوْٓا اَخْرِجُوْٓا اٰلَ لُوْطٍ مِّنْ قَرْيَتِكُمْۙ اِنَّهُمْ اُنَاسٌ يَّتَطَهَّرُوْنَ
There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: "Drive out the family of Lout (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!"
فَاَنْجَيْنٰهُ وَاَهْلَهٗٓ اِلَّا امْرَاَتَهٗ قَدَّرْنٰهَا مِنَ الْغٰبِرِيْنَ
So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.
وَاَمْطَرْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ مَّطَرًاۚ فَسَاۤءَ مَطَرُ الْمُنْذَرِيْنَ ࣖ
And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned.
قُلِ الْحَمْدُ لِلّٰهِ وَسَلٰمٌ عَلٰى عِبَادِهِ الَّذِيْنَ اصْطَفٰىۗ ءٰۤاللّٰهُ خَيْرٌ اَمَّا يُشْرِكُوْنَ ۔
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Praise and thanks be to Allah, and peace be on His slaves whom He has chosen (for His Message)! Is Allah better, or (all) that you ascribe as partners (to Him)?" (Of course, Allah is Better).
CHAPTER 29 VERSES 28_31
وَلُوْطًا اِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهٖٓ اِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُوْنَ الْفَاحِشَةَ ۖمَا سَبَقَكُمْ بِهَا مِنْ اَحَدٍ مِّنَ الْعٰلَمِيْنَ
And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people: "You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns)."
اَىِٕنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُوْنَ الرِّجَالَ وَتَقْطَعُوْنَ السَّبِيْلَ ەۙ وَتَأْتُوْنَ فِيْ نَادِيْكُمُ الْمُنْكَرَ ۗفَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهٖٓ اِلَّآ اَنْ قَالُوا ائْتِنَا بِعَذَابِ اللّٰهِ اِنْ كُنْتَ مِنَ الصّٰدِقِيْنَ
Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer (travellers, etc.)! And practise Al-Munkar (disbelief and polytheism and every kind of evil wicked deed) in your meetings." But his people gave no answer except, that they said: "Bring Allah's Torment upon us if you are one of the truthful."
قَالَ رَبِّ انْصُرْنِيْ عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْمُفْسِدِيْنَ ࣖ
He said: "My Lord! Give me victory over the people who are Mufsidun (those who commit great crimes and sins, oppressors, tyrants, mischief-makers, corrupts).
وَلَمَّا جَاۤءَتْ رُسُلُنَآ اِبْرٰهِيْمَ بِالْبُشْرٰىۙ قَالُوْٓا اِنَّا مُهْلِكُوْٓا اَهْلِ هٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةِ ۚاِنَّ اَهْلَهَا كَانُوْا ظٰلِمِيْنَ ۚ
And when Our Messengers came to Ibrahim (Abraham) with the glad tidings they said: "Verily, we are going to destroy the people of this [Lout's (Lot's)] town (i.e. the town of Sodom in Palestine) truly, its people have been Zalimun [wrong-doers, polytheists and disobedient to Allah, and have also belied their Messenger Lout (Lot)]."
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
Like that guy wich is doing curraption every Saturday he's in the beginning did rape a girl he did go to prison he did give he's body to prisoners to rape him then he started being a gay half gay half sexual with women he's girlfriend was allowing him to do sex with her to make him stay away from those practices enchalah but she fails and she can tell people about that she didn't once more for not destroying he's life he did left her then he started selling himself for money and he became a purely gay wants just men may all
Allah guides him he's also did lied to the girl that I did love and stand with when she was having cancer ,he's from tunisa that girl is from America I did know him before a year I didn't know about all of those things one time I was in my house in December 2021 my friends from omrane tells me to stay away from him then I understand what's he's really are I did forget about that maybe he would change maybe he would become a men what did he do he did mockery against me when I be with my freinds in my city they called him play I did know now why they do that I have proofs against him but I wouldn't show that to anyone maybe he's be guided someday he's life can be destroyed I even let him to be with the girl from America that I love I want him to marry her and stay away from mishelf, please pray with me o people's maybe God guides this person I can lie just like him and play with the feelings of the people's but I do not because my mom raised a men he's also from being in America and married he wants to leave islam and be Christian for this purpose even when I showed him this I didn't tell him the truth about him and what I know but I showed him this maybe he's being guided:Trinty is association.
God is not eqaul to anyone and God doesn't need anything to complete him.
1+1+1=3
1 is perfect
The perfect have to be just 1 because he doesn't need anything to complete him or it's not worthy of any worship angels are servants of God So us prophets and this is the truth .
enchalah I don't care if he's being a Christian but at least I care about he's safety for being from the people's of LUT this would affect he's life badly would not have a family or kids Please pray for him.
Because there's no compulsion in religion
CHAPTER 2 VERSE 256
لَآ اِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّيْنِۗ قَدْ تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَنْ يَّكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوْتِ وَيُؤْمِنْۢ بِاللّٰهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقٰى لَا انْفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗوَاللّٰهُ سَمِيْعٌ عَلِيْمٌ
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
@@mohammadfatimazahra3006 Just ignore them. They’re drowning in corruption and ignorance. I reckon faith has already left their hearts.
@@Rotisiv homosexuality is good and natural. Religion is myth
Brother, we appreciate you for breaking down this important subject. 💪🏆💪
Cuddling with friends (males and males) is normal as well
@@hanadkhalifa i loved your mother last night, i sprayed my liquid love all over her face
@@bryanbradley6871 Yes, it is very sus tho
Well jokes aside, the Islamic religion itself tells us to think best of others, which includes such cases.
@@quasarsaad12344 no it is
Thank you for taking your time with such interesting topic, research and video!
Success!
It's easy to be homosexual in the Muslim world, because men and women don't often socialize together. Unless it's a family event.
When A bunch of men hang out together, there is bound to be mischief.
It's also easy to bullshit
no its not bullshit ...you muslims like to play with eachothers under the table until is marriage time. Internet is exposing your double lives do you know the bachi bazi parties in afghanistan?? or you dont want to know😂😂 @@RyhanMuhammad-bb2xh
Ever watched documentaries about dancing boys🤮🤮🤮
You mean it's easy to hide, yes. The point was, to talk about it.
Do blowjobs count? 😉
As a gay man, this was enlightening. Us LGBTQ+ folks have existed since there has been humanity and I love it when our history is celebrated from multiple perspectives. Thank you for this.
celebrated ?
Hardly celebrated in this case. This is a testament of the nefarious influence of the monotheisms of the book.
we are not tq+ ewww
@@icimdekisen are you straight then?
@@wiktoriakos2597 TQ is not an orientation but some identify of genre bullshit.
Excellent Video. Impartial and Euridite. This is how all videos should be made. Thank You again for your work and insight.
I praise this channel for its thoroughness and depth
umm.... is it just my dirty mind... or.... 😄
@@rosieroti4063 disgusting hornymaniac. Go get an occupation
@@rosieroti4063 yes it is
Congratulations from México, really beautiful graphics and witty articulated. Love it 🤍
it is very hard to find a proper documentation or a narration that isn't soaked with bias. this was full of facts and historical moments. thank you sir.
how? When he never gave one reliable source, he's just talking...
You, Sir, have an arid wit - it is a delight to laugh in such a context. Thank you for presenting so well the historical root-system of homo-eroticism in Islam, as you are playing to a tough crowd, and I say BRAVO! What is it about all those artists and mystics, eh?💐
Demystification is so very important toward education. Best of luck getting the message out there, it’s a real mess in our world so many harbour such hatred and destruction.
i just want to say that even now, in islamic societies in the middle east and south asia men may kiss eachother's cheek and hold hands as a sigh as 'brotherhood', it's a platonic sign still done today
Thank you sooo much as Muslim I thank you soo much for this information ❤❤❤❤
Murtad* not Muslim
Honestly very shocked at how well you handled the vid!!!
You approaching this subject shows lots of courage and you handling it so well shows how much skill you developed while growing this channel. AMAZING JOB!
-I do hope you give us some more lives the last one was more than a year ago 💔
Thank you for this info. Don’t let the haters stop you from producing this great content. Haters gonna hate.
my parents are heavily muslims and even they say "i don't think it's okay, but it's their life and all lives are precious." (talking about my gay friend) and i heard the same thing from all of my muslims relatives aswell! I dislike most men so it's funny whenever they ask me about a boyfriend, they're like: "are you gay? just so you know we (my uncle and his family, my cousins, my aunt, my distant relatives, etc.) we don't care about that stuff. we just want you to be happy"
only misguided religions would be hateful towards living being!!
some muslims are wrong because they are taught by the prophet to hate the sin and not the sinner. They believe the God prohibits things for good reasons, and islam also puts familial relationships and having offspring in great regard and that indulging in sexual pleasures or any pleasures too much will corrupt the human self. Even so, hating people for what they do should be seen as wrong
@@yuwyu4841what??? So it’s okay to also hate the sinner treat them like shit and ruin their lives for something so dumb and shouldn’t even be a big deal???!!!
That makes no sense, they explain it again. Are you homophobic yes or no :)
Liar
@@LiamPugh-rn7bp Why are they a liar
As a closeted bisexual, I'm surprised, my Christian "liberal" mom would definitely have a problem with me, she thinks it's a mental illness ☠️
What a brilliant video on a really underexplored and misunderstood topic!
Hi, I didn't expect to find you here. Btw, you're one of my favourite content creators on YT and I really appreciate what you do ❤️
Misunderstood! Sounds we have been living the wrong way ever since mankind were created. Oh! You know what it might actually be a mistake from god, there should've been only one gender why complicate it? Is that right Mr. Cogito?
As a non-muslim with an interest for history, this was very interesting and the first time I heard about the topic of homosexuality and how much it changed in the muslim world.
Because its haram . Arabs were pedophilia and hated women before Quran.
15:25 the way you almost burst out laughing was epic XD
In Pakistan and Afghanistan it is very popular, they practice it more but Deny in the Daylight.
No its not genius, it's frowned upon.
a lot of child rapes in Pakistan ( mostly with boys, who are addicted to opium)
@@fallasleep9472cheating is also frowned upon and look at how much your grandfather’s generation did it. We like to think people follow what’s frowned upon, but there are LOTS of “open secrets”. Even VICTORIANS had sexual secrets that were crazy to us. The US finding fathers had outright heretical Christian beliefs if not close to atheists, but what happens in public is not the same as in private. We all think politicians stealing money is frowned upon, does that mean it’s less common today?
@@yucol5661 What happens in the bedroom is no one's problem, I'm talking about public display of that sort of things. Also, most of the people bring up these things do it in order to further a certain agenda or present a place or people in a negative light so no, not buying that excuse of an argument.
WOW, that's totally true, indeed
It seems that the early Muslims had the same attitude toward homosexuality as the Romans did. While being attracted to and having sex with men is no shame, the heterosexual family and the duty to reproduce was paramount.
It makes sense. They were influenced by Greeks, Romans and Persians. The practice is common today in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan. Although it's usually men and boys.
@@JubalBed Those are cultural practices tho
@@B10101 Yes, but it is hinted at in Islam as well. Just as with the full breasted virgins, you will be served wine by beautiful young servant boys in Paradise. This could be interpreted as a promised reward of martyrdom or belief by saying that although these things are forbidden now if you are loyal to Islam you can indulge in them in Paradise and it will not be haram. It could have been a strategy used to get more men who indulged in those practices to follow Islam.
@@JubalBed
Uhhhhh no, just no.
@@JubalBed I'm sure you can provide source 🤡
A very enlightening video! I'm very interested in the history of sexuality in different parts of the world, and it was remarkable to hear that the harsher view on same-sex relationships was pretty much simultaneous with the same thing happening in China and Japan (where those relationships hadn't even ever been illegal or seen as sinful). In the case of Japan and China it's very clear that it's the European influence during that time, but rather than Christianity being the influence it was the new ideas of sexuality that started to be developed along with the field of psychology in the mid 19th century. The ideas that homosexuality was a disease or a deformation of the mind became popular and spread to the areas of European cultural influence.
@H H whose creator? Mine or yours?
@H H how on earth did you manage to get through this entire video (assuming you've even watched it at all) and arrive at such a ridiculous and brain-dead conclusion?
@H H Homosexuality is also a gift by God to the sexual minority, they can only accept but not reject
If that's true, then didn't God create homosexuals? If he created all things on earth and God doesn't make mistakes, then he made homosexuals.
@@betsyab121 no no the original poster is only explaining _why_ homosexuality was viewed as sinful towards the 19th century; it's not an opinion. they're not really condemning it
this is my first time here and let me say, that intro logo animation is so clean
Demystification leads to normalization. And that’s a beautiful thing.
It will never ever be normalized in the Islamic world, keep it in western countries
Keep dreaming
@@julia2k8 Let’s share a dream together.
@@EmilyTienne this will never be normalized, not even in your dreams
@@julia2k8 It’s been normal over most of the western world. Gays can marry, keep jobs, have their own businesses. They are featured prominently in popular music, television and the movies. They can even walk down the street holding hands. And you’re saying this isn’t an indication of normalization? Are you joking? They couldn’t do this fifty years ago. What planet are you from?
I've met gay Muslim guys from Islamic countries. And yes, they exist. A lot of times it's very difficult for them to reconcile their faith and their sexuality.
Who said they didn't? It's only a sin to commit to those feelings.
@@fallasleep9472It’s difficult to want to do something and feel uncomfortable doing something else, but being a part of a religion that demands conformity to what would be felt as uncomfortable. It would also feel like a curse, no? Being stuck in such a position when you are born with something that your religion sees as sin.
@@smartstudyingdoggo9031 we as muslims believe this world is a test and Allah tests those he loves the most the hardest to see of their faith is strong, and yes that includes gay people. Even if they commit the sin, if they sincerely have regrets, then their forgiveness will be for sure accepted. Even as heterosexuals, we have tendency to go flirt and sleep around with the opposite sex, but we are told to avoid that and things which would lead to that act.
@@fallasleep9472 that there shows where the discomfort lies. Regret is a required part of forgiveness for the sin of homosexuality. Therefore, you must regret something that is a part of you. To be morally righteous as a gay Muslim you must be self-loathing, unfortunately.
@@smartstudyingdoggo9031 Nice way of twisting my words, my guy. There are people with murderous tendencies which are natural to them, it doesn't mean it's moral for them to go and hurt people. And how the heck did you come to the conclusion that regretting is the same as self loathing? Allah wouldn't give you a chance to repent for your sins if all He wanted was self loathing from you since that would be torture. And I was talking about the act of homosexuality, not the attracting part, which completely went over your head. Also, being gay isn't your identity so the idea that you can't possibly control it is as ridiculous a claim you can make.
You presented this enlightening video in a factual manner with a touch of humour. I enjoyed it and learned a few things. Thank you.
This is very sensitive topic in the islamic world and it's good to see it discussed and explained so well 👍 interesting to note that the Sultanate had fined homosexuality while the Christendom had death penalty in the same era. Indeed, it seems the post mediaeval and 19th century European control over the middle east has solidified the harsh stance against homosexuality from maghreb to the lavent and even india.
Yeah but “NOW” Europe is more respectful to homosexuality than muslim countries
it's bit horrendous as a Hindu, that we had great many examples of lgbt+ members but their history was buried and falsified under the British rule
@Sanctus Paulus 1962 because they have been influenced already by Europe. Influence goes beyond making the decisions for you.
Has very little to do with European influence and more to do with the fall of the predominantly sufi empire (ottoman empire). Orthodox Muslims existed all over the muslim world but we're not in positions of power until very recently.
By the Greeks Romans christians crusaders male Arab ass play goat sex lamb sex they had to fulfill the sexual needs without a wife then they come to America and they really can do they filthy deeds in dirty America
I remember reading years ago about this subject, way before the current relegated Islamic jihad wars of the 20th century. In it, Islamic communities often allowed upstanding homosexual couples to Foster or adopt orphans, both boys and girls, to provide the communities most isolated and poor children with what we would call today a blended family.
This way the communities orphans had a family, home, security and could get a proper education, and the clans and tribes kept their unity and cohesion, and fulfilled the prophets teachings and protections for the tribes orphans who would otherwise end up ostracised and likely to die from neglect and starvation.
There’s another reason as to why Sufi poetry is mostly “men loving men.” The allegorical language of such poetry was devised in a way to convey the Love for God using observable phenomena, specially the beauty of god’s creatures: flowers, food, landscapes, people, etc. So naturally the servants, the dancers, the musicians, the cup bearers and such who attended the Sufi circles where gazed upon as a reflection of the divine. And obviously women were not allowed in these gatherings, so it was always male poets using male servants/dancers as an allegory for god.
There is also a heavy emphasis on loving those close to God. A lot of the poetry could be misunderstood as homosexual when it is a platonic love for ones teachers, seniors and/or peers. Not that I'm saying it doesn't happen. Just that a lot of it is easy to misunderstand.
One sufi asked to kiss a man's tongue because he has taught hadeeth for decades and was the foremost senior teacher in hadeeths. Other examples, less unusual ones, like kissing hands and feet, etc are normalised and can be misunderstood.
Sufism is wrong in general
@@ferone2ashy
That is true, I’m not Muslim, I’m an Irish American Catholic but from my understanding in some parts of the Islamic world men are more affectionate with one another, ie male friends holding hands. I think that at least for some of us westerners in our culture we’d call “homosexual behavior” or non-typical behavior between men in our culture. All in all this video was great and I found it super interesting as a high school history teacher.
@@MCKevin289 Friends holding hands is also common in india.
Quran itself is written by many scholars, there is no way if there is any truth about this book. Even the Mecca Mosque is made after 900 AD. So, the modern Islam is man-made.
Thank u for this honestly as someone who comes from an Islamic family this actually warms my heart
@Comrade Legion Fr
@Comrade Legion not the point
@Comrade Legion This is a historical video not theology 😆
If you want to argue, you got the wrong person. I'm not Muslims , so I do t care
@Comrade Legion ew
@Comrade Legion what is haram is homosexual acts, the attraction itself is not haram you can’t control the attraction dumbass
Thank you for explaining this topic in a very sensitive and educational manner.
What i really like about history as a history student is that we are the keepers and witnesses of evolution. We do not present arguments, to fit a narrative, and cement a political view. We tell you what happened before you were here to dispute it. We guard the truth against subjectivity and bias.
I just happened to come across with this channel.
I would say that this is a well done research.
Sad to say that most of the commentators haven't really understood the video presentation or at least its contents.
This is an ANTHROPOLOGICAL approach which is carefully delivered and which should merit in all senses.
So if you notice guys,...
THEOLOGICAL COMMENTS DIVIDE AND POLEMICAL. That's a bad theology or it's not even theology at all. It's fundamentalism and doesn't really unify.
What a well done research. Have you verified it to say that its well done, any idea where he got his words? I guess as long as you have good visuals and put some arab names that and it has Islam in it that its 100% true.
@@mr.yayaman he posted some books regarding this in his description, if u even checked it out
Ottoman poet Enderûnlu Fâzıl (1757-1810) wrote about lesbian love and sex in all-female bath houses of late 18th century Istanbul, as well as his overtly homoerotic work.
Love the beautiful artwork you have used in this presentation. To our modern minds with belief in civil rights, the use of class differences and dominance concerns me. One wonders how much freedom of choice the less dominant person had in many of these cases. In Siwa, Egypt, there was an interesting situation where isolation and lack of women could result in two men being recognized as partners.
Even if there are more women than men, majority of men still isolate themselves as they perceive women as inferior and only men can accomplish love and friendship in most ancient cultures.
@@mikejohn29mjwell extremely misogynistic cultures do tend to learn towards pederasty.. Since masculinity is deemed superior, they think masculinity is the only Identity deserving of love..
@@Iamhere829 Right? Let's not forget that the Roman men have an all male orgy on a special day.
Homosexuality is good and natural. It should be not only accepted but celebrated.
Why celebrated? Why should someone celebrate that they are gay? Why someone who is hetero doesn't celebrate being hetero?
@@kserial8491Why celebrated it? Why should someone celebrate being hetero? Why someone who is gay can't celebrate being gay?
@@kserial8491Why celebrated it? Why should someone celebrate being hetero? Why someone who is gay can't celebrate being gay?
@@putaromason5234 because sexually is not something that we should be celebrate, it is something that should stay behind bedroom's door, sexually means with who you sleep and public shouldn't be informed about this. If you sleep with men, thats ur right, but there is no need to tell public about it.
@@kserial8491 Hetero people do that all the time. Like all the time but do u get killed for it??? Nooo. Do Hetero people have no representation of it???Nooo. Do you get arrested for showing off ur pregnancy??? Noooo.It should be celebrated because it's such a beautiful thing. It's not something that needs to be hidden. Come back with an actual argument 🙄
This was a great overview, I will certainly link it to people interested in the topic!
With regard to sufism and homosexuality there is also a heavy emphasis on loving those close to God. A lot of the poetry could be misunderstood as homosexual when it is a platonic love for ones teachers, seniors and/or peers. Not that I'm saying it doesn't happen. Just that a lot of it is easy to misunderstand.
One sufi asked to kiss a man's tongue because he has taught hadeeth for decades and was the foremost senior teacher in hadeeths. Other examples, less unusual ones, like kissing hands and feet, etc are normalised and can be misunderstood. One of the books I have of deobandi sufis is called muhabbat naamey meaning 'love letters' which contains alot of love for ones peers and elders. Yet it is all platonic love.
Just something interesting about the sufi culture.
Yes, a lot of times we do tend to look at such gestures as purely homosexual or homo erotic but many here in the western world has certainly seen instances of a man being so Overjoyed with good news that they jokingly say out loud "I COULD KISS YOU!" This isn't to also mention the fact that it was also acceptable under comedic displays early on in American Cinema and even cartoons for someone to be so excited and overjoyed that they blindly kiss the very person next to them which tends to be another shocked man.
Ah Sufism.
Sufism was the most effective method used to destroy islam
@@randomiumolica sufi were the foremost in preserving and propagating sunni islam across the world
@@randomiumolica It was a sufi who converted Berke Khan to Islam and thus not only saved most of the Islamic world, but added considerably to it.
@@zoybean Rasool Allah said that Allah can take work of his deen (religion) even from an unjust and bad person. Not of a big surprise if some Sufi converted a man to Islam.
Thousands of people are converted to Islam after reading Quran which are printed on the press invented by non Muslims. It does not mean that we start saying that non Muslims are right only because they became a source for the guidance of those who accepted Islam.
Most of sufis have propagated non Islamic beliefs in Muslim community and Allah will indeed punish them for their stupidity unless He forgives for He is the most merciful.
thank you for sharing, appreciate the efforts made to illustrate topic. cool.
very clear, objective, a learned synthesis! well dove!
Both the Qur'an and the Hadith condemned Homosexuality.
@@isahisahk5459 it was always condemned, even before the 1900s. It just wasn't punished because we had more humanity then and less barbaric legislation. Back before the callous Brit's shamed us into murdering our own people because they like to suck some dick.
@@isahisahk5459 so what? Did you watched the video? The video focused on the general attitude of public towards homosexual acts
@@isahisahk5459 this video is saying about some people's characteristics of medieval arab. in Islamic rule it's haram for us
@@vaishnavisingh9244and the general attitude was aligned with the Quran and Hadiths. Did homosexuality happen maybe but very very rare and certainly not normalized
So sad that homosexuality is a topic that everyone is scared to discuss in the Islamic World
Good, they should not. As Christian, I agree with them.
@@wilno7579 lol..
@@wilno7579 insane take
@@wilno7579 so can talk about bullshit verses in the bible 🙄
@@wilno7579 not fina lie u are bind as hell
Its funny we had to study history in school to pass. HISTORY is all learned when we are pure at heart.
Thanks for the amazing content.
I agree. As a history student it's kinda sad to see how history is taught in school. Eeverything seem to be just remember this, remember that. You don't have to fully remember years or names of everyone in history, you'll forget it all right after the exam. There are books for that and the internet. Our history is beautiful and tragic and sad and full of wonders. If only we learn it for the sake of learning.
Why do people get so mad about being gay lol
"gay people icky" or somethin. Some people try to justify this hate with religion or science.
idk but it’s funny to watch people seethe about it ngl
It's haram
@@AeliusCaesar but do you not noticeable difference and hypocrisy on the outrage people have about this act of haram vs others. The amount of outrage in hate you get for talking about substance abuse in the Islamic world is vastly different than homosexuality
@@2the431 it's haram obey or go to hell fire
Very well done. I am glad this is available. I only wish that there was a mention that it isn't something abstract or something you choose. People are born straight or gay and some can funtion along the spectum and enjoy both sexes. A lot of the modern world understands this, while vast parts of the world does not understand. Ask any straight person, if they go on about homosexuality being a choice...let them finish and then ask when they chose to be straight. The are often left gobsmacked. Many thanks for this valuable input to the topic. Again, well done. Cheers
Choosing to commit immorality is a choice that deserves response. Having feelings is not the person’s fault but his actions are
You never know if those homophobic bigots will defend themselves by saying shit like "it's aDam aNd eVe aNd nOt aDam aNd sTeVe so we chose to be correct by choosing to become straight"
@@alchemistbrotv1707 even heterosexual sex without intention of bearing child is immorality then. The purpose of sex is to create progeny then by that logic even heterosexual people shouldn't do sex more than 10 times in their life. If you are using a condom or if you are having sex with a girl who is not on her ovulatory period, then that means you are simply doing sex for your own pleasure which is selfish and immoral. You all better control your lust, your sin, before preaching homosexuals to control their feelings/sin!
@@SkinnyGuyDahn I do not believe that. Having sex between a husband and his wife is permissible and is one of the pleasures and ways God has allowed people to express their desires. However, men and men can not have sex, as this is not permissible.
@@SkinnyGuyDahn the correct way of creation is men with women
lmao at these comments, great video as always Syawish.
As it should be
He's a pseudo "historian" with a revisionist western agenda, just like you. There's no such thing as Arab ethnicity, right?
Both of you are revisionist pseudo "historians"
My Best friend is gay & he is Muslim in their tribe some LGBT muslims are gaining acceptance from their society,,,, and I also notice that the head of their family now is their mother, which is different from their patriarchal traditions
Even tho the entire world accept him won’t change its Haraam! Act
Stop the cap
Yezzz he knows we saw it on TV when Isis was mainstream,,, we leave in the Philippines islam here is much open compared to middle east or Indonesia
@@redacted7060 it’s true, Islam manifests differently in SE Asia
"patriarchal traditions"☠
I'm part of the LGBTQ and I love history and watching religious and cultural reference to homosexuality. I find this fascinating and I hope there's also a Christian part of this. I have never encounter a Catholic or Christian historical topics for homosexuality.
I think a video of how this played out in west Africa is needed too.
African history is still woefully under-researched and, to be fair, there are real practical issues with conducting the research.
Very good video. Would love a video about alcohol in the islamic world as well
That would be genuinely interesting
Alcoholic is not prohibited in the quran but drunkeness is considered a sin that is why Allah says don't come to prayer while drunk.
@Sanctus Paulus 1962 its all over most Muslim countries, some consume it in hotel bars and have it at home away from preying eyes. I personally don't support alcohol but I don't think its right to lie on gods name and say he prohibited when in the quran its not prohibited stricty, though advised to avoid it. Its cultural to not drink anyway, our ancient culture tolerated wine but we still did not consume it as much as other cultures did.
@@enlightenlife2840 kafir liar
Now that I've actually watched the video, I have to say, I really loved it! It means a lot to me that you are willing to talk about this subject at all. If you don't mind, I have a small recommendation! If you haven't already come across it, you may enjoy the paper Medieval Arab Lesbians and Lesbian-Like Women by Sahar Amer, which discusses this exact subject. I found it quite interesting.
@Trinty destroyer I do not believe I asked.
@Trinty destroyer There was and there's really no point denying it, the important thing is that we must know that it is forbidden in Islam and not to practice it
Lesbian sounds whack ngl lmao
@@justicethedoggo3648
Well, you live in a very narrow world, then.
I don't found it interesting.
Can you please link your sources. I would love to check and read some of them. This topic seems so interesting. Nice work 👍
Very great detail. I know its very tough for homosexuality in the Islamic world. But history is history. Come as you are.
One thing to note that while the punishment in the UK certainly was death, oftentimes judges will put "death recorded" and admit a less punitive sentence. I remember this because there was an author who blundered by writing an entire book about the criminalisation of homosexuality who had taken it to the publishers and had to have her mistake corrected live on radio!
Oh, I remember that boom by Naomi Wolf, I read the article in the Telegraph.
Homosexuality existed and continues to exist in Islamic world. However, from religion point of view, it's clear in the Quran that any homosexual act is a sin.
No one cares
@@RobespierreThePoof2 billion people and more care
@@RobespierreThePoof you cant say no one cares when somebody hurting your feeling through their statement
@@fallasleep9472And that’s embarrassing
@@shani5395 A French fry like you cares XD
The art at 1:57 is The Meuzzin by Jean-Leon Gerome (located at the Joslyn Art Museum in Omaha). I was going through my phone literally today and saw a pic of it! I can't believe the synchronicity
I have added some of the sources and further reading suggestions in the description. I read quite a few papers for this so, if you want more details on a particular point, please get in touch with me.
Man, we need to talk, you’re misleading Muslims.
Which papers? Cuz your analysis in my opinion makes a couple of important mistakes, primarily in that you seem to me to be conflating modern concepts of age of consent, the conflation of sodomy and homosexuality as well as not paying much attention to the impractical nature of condemning all forms of homosexuality with the same vigor in pre-modern societies.
Let's start with the first point. You explicitly say that men had sex with "underaged children", which projects modern notions of "childhood" into a setting where I wouldn't say they belong. The simple fact of the matter is that modern idea of the "child" and expanding "childhood" to overtake adolescence is a very, very recent development that has been brought on by a previously unprecedented state of wealth and access to medicine. We were at 46% child mortality in 1800 here in the USA and 26% in 1900, and that's just the statistics for children under the age of 5, my friend. I didn't look for statistics for children over 5, but one can certainly imagine that more of them died then than did today for similar reasons. That means that in 1800 if you had 10 children, you could expect to keep about 6, maybe 7... at least until they were 5. In Medieval England we know that the average number of births in the upper class families was around 15 and the number children that could be expected to make it to adulthood was 10-ish while in lower class families it was closer to 6, with often as low as 2 making it to adulthood. The British Statistics are paraphrased from Nicholas Ormes book Medieval Children (and I may be slightly off, but not by much), and the American ones can be found here (www.statista.com/statistics/1041693/united-states-all-time-child-mortality-rate/). With that in mind we might consider then that it was only practical for men to marry women as young as 15 for the widest space for fertility as possible, and indeed most people alive today descend from such unions. Several sets of my own great-grandparents were couples that had gaps of 10-15 and sometimes even 20 years between them, because it can and did often take a man much longer to get himself established enough to be able to afford a wife and children, especially depending on the pressures of his social class. We condemn these sorts of relationships today because there is no practicality behind them in a modern setting, but we forget that this is a high horse we can only sit on because of our unprecedented wealth and access to medicine. A man who took himself til he was 40 to get established was thought of as having achieved the same benefits as any other man who had done so at a younger age or one born established, and that was to have a wife and as many children as he could. If child mortality was that high, we might imagine that the best age then for a girl to be able to secure herself a stable husband would be 14-16, as it often was.
So, age-gap relationships were a normal facet of pre-modern times, and one that we look down on from a place of luxury that our ancestors didn't really enjoy. It is a little disrespectful in my mind to those that came before us to paint them all with such a broad brush. With that in mind, when dealing with homosexuality things were no different because it was considered natural and beneficial for a man to be attracted to youth and a homosexual man was just exhibiting that same instinct, just in another direction, and an adolescent was not thought of for most of history as being a kind of child as much as they were a category of adult. We are generally not talking about boys below they age of 14 when referring to this concept, because pederasty was not for most of history viewed as encompassing prepubescent boys where it has manifested, and the acceptability of this behavior has depended heavily on the acceptability of age-gap relationships at large. Times were different, life was often shorter, and just because we live longer on average today and have a lower rate of child mortality, does not mean we are better and more enlightened than people in the past or people in the present who still live under these pressures.
On the next point - your conflation of sodomy with homosexuality - I am not clear that this contemporary understanding was the same of people in the Islamic or Christian worlds in the past. If I remember correctly, this conflation was not really considered to be fully synonymous until well into the Post-War Period in the West and still doesn't make sense to a lot of people in different cultures, and even people in what is today the Muslim world. Sodomy for much of history in both the Islamic and Christian worlds has traditionally referred to oral and anal sex. All other sex acts were treated differently, which leaves a lot on the table, sex acts that Sufis and Christian monks alike are known to have written with a sort of guarded but still fairly straightforward openness about. I remember for example the writings of a certain prominent medieval scholar and monk (I can get you the reference, but I am paraphrasing) who once wrote that he was so excited to see the bishop who had been his mentor in youth that he would cover his body in kisses from his naked collar to his ankles... something to that effect. Nicholas Ormes' book Medieval Children also has a section which talks about the common medieval notion that friars (who were usually teenagers or young adults) were known to lure the newest boys into "sin", but then of course we know from other medieval records that sodomy and other homosexual sex acts were not considered in the same category. We also know the Sufi scholar and mystic Ibn Arabi is said to have traced the lines of the body of a youth who appeared to him in Mecca who signaled that he was in fact Allah with a secret gesture who took off his clothes when they were alone and asked him to do so, as it was in his lines that the secrets of being were etched. Let's Talk Religion mentioned this incident in his videos on Wahdat-al-Wujud and on Ibn Arabi proper. Thus, we can imagine at least for a moment that there is more for two men or a man and a youth to get up to than just oral and anal sex, and these were dealt with rather differently, if at all. The word "masturbation" did not originally of course mean to do to oneself, but "to manually stimulate". It was only gradually that it came to this definition, and only gradually that they started to be treated differently at the ethical level. Anyone who has been either a Christian or a Muslim knows of course that masturbation today is generally treated with a sort of quiet disregard for the reality of the situation, and we can certainly see this reflected for what we would call "masturbation" and "mutual masturbation" today in the historical record.
Finally, lending to the point that condemning at the same level all homosexual activity of any kind was impractical, this is due primarily to the fact that privacy in the Western sense is a very recently developed concept. For much of history, a private moment was a rare thing. People generally ate, shat, slept and bathed with other people, most often people of the same gender. Parents and children used to sleep in the same room and more often than not even in the same bed, even among the upper classes (although this trend started to change with the latter beginning in about the 1650s), which meant that sex acts of whatever kind might be happening around them at any given time of the night. I think the earliest Western reference to this being inappropriate comes from the Victorian Period, and again this was mostly circulated among the ascendant middle class of the period. So, I'm sure we can imagine what many a teenage boy got up to under the covers whilst sleeping in the same bed with his friends naked with the rest of the family because of the summer heat, and in fact these dynamics are still quite common around much of the world today. In these sorts of circumstances, it would be difficult to conceal sodomy, and so what is considered to be ethical sexual conduct for whatever reason is more easily upheld by peers and family, and because masturbation and other homosexual sex acts were simply not treated the same as sodomy if at all. This is why a good deal of homoerotic Christian and Muslim poetry hints at things like mutual masturbation and even why art from the Ancient World commonly shows men engaged in such sex acts as intercrural sex or mutual masturbation. These sex acts were generally perceived as more acceptable, but sodomy (oral and anal sex) less so, and the idea of putting all people who enjoyed sex acts of any kind with the same sex or ever did at any point into a single category is one that didn't make sense to the general public until after it became the norm for people to start sleeping in separate rooms, at least here in the west.
These are very important concepts in understanding the dynamics of pre-modern relationships and especially pre-industrial relationships in history and around the world today. Remember that many people, people who may or may not compose part of your audience (with specific regard to your Muslim audiences, even those in Europe and North America) live under some combination of or perhaps still all of these pressures that we in the West presently do not face at all, and it strikes me I suppose as a little insensitive of us to pass judgment on them and inappropriate to project our ideas onto them.
Anyways, take care sir! I hope to hear back you.
hate how this guy tries his hardest to be “western” and “academic”. Even in previous videos he just says “Mohammed” instead of adding salutations to the name of Rasulallah ﷺ. Newsflash for you, you are a confused Pakistani who is miserable failing to appease the white man
Check out Thomas Bauer "A Culture of Ambiguity", he extensively talks about this topic. Marc David Baer and his recent book The Ottomans also covers homosexuality and sexual relations in the Empires of the Ottomans, there you can find additional sources.
@@porphyriontimotheoios1107 Why would it be insensitive?.
Rare view and approach to this subject from Muslim side. Great channel and a theme, just go ahead, all best for you.
There's no religion or human laws that suppress what's natural and interior yours. Sexuality is a thing of nature, accept it.
The patriarchy has always needed to repress sexuality... or try to repress it.
Murder...killing...rape fantasy...perversion... peadophilia... natural feelings from nature. You should accept that also. Why call yourself human when same as animals
People also have innate, murderous intents. So what's your point?
@@fallasleep9472 Murder is inherently harmful, homosexuality is as sexual as heterosexuality at worst. Besides, you can speak for yourself, I have never had any sort of murderous intent at all, so don't go assuming that everyone has murderous desire.
@@nononope75 If murder is harmful, then so is sodomy since your butt hole ain't made for sexual intercourse. Two wrongs don't make a right. Having murderous thoughts and behaviour has been studied and is inherent in some people, same as homosexuality. I never said people should be condoned for having these, I'm saying they should be condoned for acting upon them.
Straight Muslims realizing that we exist among them and have existed since forever: 👁️ 👄 👁️
*They are among us* 😱😱😱
everyone knows about this, as it was stated that this was natural and should be a lifelong struggle...
Our prophet said is haram you won't change it stay mad
@@nylonin3817nop
@@AdamAdam-pi2ss look at this tool, go learn English buddy you obviously didn’t my comment.
Incredible Video...
Can you pinpoint the books that you can read to learn about islamic history? WOuld be very helpful
Of course it's incredible to zindiqs like you
Such a fascinating topic. Thank you so much!
Nice material.
I would caution you about relating Islam to geography. This is an outdated and very orientalist perspective and is unfair to the areas that exchanged political and religious identities in the old world, and is also a very reductive. Modern day Iran has persistently been different from, say the Arab peninsula (perhaps not in relationship to homosexual tendencies) and so is northern Egypt from greater Syria and such.
There is a huge relationship between the enforcement of the Catholic and victorian moralities by the colonial powers in Asia and Africa and the change in attitudes towards different sexuality expressions and marriage relationships in the occupied areas. I wish someone would study this objectively.
I was also thinking that. The Arab countries could be used. Or, old world Persian. Arabian people, or Arabian culture, Persian culture. Islam is a religion.
As a queer Syrian, thank you.
My Syrian or Marocan friends, also have no problem with alcohol, so why should they with gays.
Society is able to find a relaxed relation to assumed religious rules.
So in conclusion, Colonialism is to blame for the ripple effect it had on the negative view of Homosexuality. Among it's many negative effects on the human story
It's actually the very very rare W colonialism did.
it's so refreshing to hear this being spoken about in an impartial manner
Even in European Christian society there's sort of a tacit tolerance of homosexuality between individuals of two different social classes among Conservatives.
Sin is sin
@@summerohara554it's their sin
"attraction to other men is natural but you must resist it and be pious" reads like a Reddit thread where op is in denial
What an enlightening video. Thank you
I found a goldmine with your channel when it comes to unbiased history about Islamic culture, thank you
Really interesting. Great content 👌
came for the comments🍿
fr 🍿
Oh boy this gonna be a roller coaster 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
@Gg You can't be Muslim and Secular at the same time
this is going to be wild indead