I'm totally OK with removing dangerous things from competition... but the Judo world seems so sport-minded that once something's nerfed by IJF, it disappears from daily practice and study. It's a small minority of judokas who still consider things like: how to throw a passive or defensive opponent, how to avoid giving up leglocks and entanglements, how to hold a pin longer than half a minute, what to do with illegal grips, how to defend against the banned throws. If Judo is a martial art, these are critical to retain and study, otherwise Judo gives up its seat at the combat table.
@@mihneaiordan1813 You would be correct, Do is an affix that means 'path' Jutsu is the affix that means skill or technique. This rule applies to other Japanese martial arts such as Kendo, Iaido, Aikido ect. A martial art with the affix Do is done in the spirit of self improvement, they're sports, or performance art as you say. A martial art with Jutsu as the affix is traditionally the more martial side, learning to fight. That all being said, a lot of martial arts have trended away from their practical origins so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the Jutsu affix meaning as much as it once did.
@@Hydros92 The "-do" meaning "way" was chosen becasue Judo is a philosophy and framework for achieving high skill and understanding of the jutsu, and is not focused merely on learning and doing the technique. Kano was innovative in distilling jujutsu to its philosophical and conceptual core to be able to teach how and why the jutsu works, and not just how to do it. Kano specifically wrote in his book Mind Over Muscle how he arrived at his preference for "-do" instead of "-jutsu", and even says that differentiating Judo from sport was part of it. He refers to jujutsu exhibitionists of the time who presented it as sport: an entertaining and competitive spectacle like Sumo. So really, he chose "-do" because it was *not* a sport :-). This is not exactly the same as my use of the word sport, by which I mean that Judo has become primarily a competitive and entertaining athletic endeavor focused on victory in shiai. It is much less about studying the "-do", which incorporates many things that go beyond mere athletics and sport.
@@mihneaiordan1813 Well, now we enter the realm of definitions and meanings. It’s common to refer any combat sport including hand-to-hand combat as a “martial art”. This includes aikido that some people would categorize as a “dance” or “form of exercise”. Sorry folks, I have done it.
I understand why kani-basami and kawazu-gake were taken out - they were banned when I was learning in the 80s. But the loss of morote-gari, suki-nage, te-guruma and classic kata-guruma still grates for me. And I have been known to teach them as non-competitive techniques - not just in the kata. Although kata is where some of the techniques not to be practiced in an unstructured way get preserved, in some ways it's not enough.
Morote-gari, suki-nage, and te-guruma are banned mainly to prevent wrestlers from entering Judo competitions using wrestling techniques that are very similar.
@@StevenRayW I think, in addition, it was the Russian Sambo style they were also trying to exclude. I do think that this goes directly against Kano's intent, to incorporate effective techniques, no matter their origin.
@@richardgodivala4680 I agree. Unfortunately, the martial arts world is full of politics and egos -- especially when it comes to competitions and medals. I'm based in Taiwan and have done both Japanese and Chinese arts. The Taiji push-hand competitions here do not allow grabbing or foot sweeping because they don't want Judo and Chinese wrestling guys to join and win.
@@StevenRayW Excellent, they want to put on a gi and compete with us? Let them. If anything the diversity of techniques will strengthen us, and strengthen them aswell.
What I really wish would change is the pace at which judoka are expected to perform in randori. You can see a huge difference between old and recent competition footage. People used to take their time to find the right opportunity or to make one, but now it's just go go or you get a penalty. It can push people to be active, yes, but in my opinion it can cause recklessness of technique which becomes how you perform. I watched the Pan Am Games in Toronto years ago and the judo was awful. Majority of wins were by penalty.
I disagree. Let the sport evolve organically. Amateur wrestling is extremely explosive and nobody ever mentioned it should be slowed down due to supposed injuries.
@@Veritas-dq2hs explosive is fine, but that should be up to the competitors. Blue uniforms and faster penalties we made for spectators so they didn't get bored and knew who did the throw. My comment wasn't exactly regarding injury prevention.
@@Lambert06Pasquale06 the thing about judo rules is they're contradictory. It's all go in stand up but with newaza they will allow turtling up and stalling.
You can reduce the injury of kani basami a lot if you place one of your hands on the mat and then go for it. This gives you a base so all of your body weight isn’t going down on their legs. It also improves control for the technique and makes it easier to hit because you can hold your body weight there
I have a few instructional videos on my channel on this move. I've been teaching it since I was a blue belt in jiujitsu and never had a single injury in the training room
What's fascinating about the scissor takedown is that it is still completely legal in Freestyle wrestling, and used frequently at the highest levels, including at the latest World Championships. I have seen many examples of that takedown being used at the Olympic level for several decades, and it has never lead to injury, and yet banned from Judo because of several prominent, but rare, injuries.
The gi probably does act as more of a restraining hold on the opponent being scissored, as they can't move/scramble out as wrestlers can.@@donaldnewell4868
Damn i trained this in the 80s. My instructor was under tutoring of japanese master who came out once a year for higher gradings and instructor. I remember these still being taught for advanced students but by the end of my student years it was no longer taught by 1991.
while this is true, Im still enjoying my time learning Olympic Judo it was the best grappling art available close to my area. I like how Judo covers both: takedowns & submissions / chokes. Wrestling is often separate, Jiu Jitsu is often separate. I like this more Jack of All Trades approach. I would have joined Catch Wrestling but that aint anywhere here.
I fight jiu jitsu and I tell you: it is not separate, the objective of Jiu Jitsu is to finish, if possible while standing, or to take down the opponent and land in an advantageous position and submit. In general, this is the goal of Jiu Jitsu. What differs from the technical part of Judo is that Jiu Jitsu was made for self-defense, which is why strangling, twisting, joint locks on the foot are allowed, and it also doesn't include many perspectives where you turn your back, so as not to be strangled. Newaza became superior to judo due to the fact that it was trained and developed over a long time, creating new inversions, ways of finishing, defenses, etc.
We teach a very safe Kani Waza (aka Kani Basami), on our NIdan tests. It is a shame so many great techniques are outlawed and not practiced in sport. Great video, Chadi. I'd still love to be on some time, like we talked about, if you want a self-defense/combat perspective.
I actually don't really see the issue with ankle hooks on throws. I don't quite understand what would realistically go wrong with Kawazu gake with the setup shown here.
It´s an (dangerous!) attack against the opponents knee. If the attacker is straightening out his leg while it´s hooked in, it results basically in a joint lock. But Kansetsu Waza are only allowed against the ellbow joint in Judo tournaments. That´s because the elbow joint is the only joint where the sensation of pain begins well before the injury.
In original ju-jitsu and lot of traditional martial arts, you didn't do a full execution or you modified it in practice to avoid injury because execution of the technique was meant to either injure or kill the opponent. Also, both ju-jitus and judo originally integrated strikes and kicks as well as weapons.
As a guy who broke his leg & ankle on a kosoto gake 2 months ago, I might watch this when I can walk properly again. Please look after yourselves, even your opponents.
I got the same injury and at the same time tore my ligaments in my ankle, I started Judo rather late at 38. I also broke fingers toes, shoulder, tore my abductor muscle and a myriad of other injuries, but I carried on till I got my Dan Grade at aged 42.
@@gooderspitman8052 sounds like we're on a similar trajectory: snapped my fibula, have 2 screws holding fib & tib together at the ankle. Started judo at 33, but I've been doing bjj since I was 19 (I'm 36). Hope you're doing well mate.
There are a number of setups for kani basami that are less risky. They are also less effective. It's a real trick to find a balance but it can be done.
Thank you for your distinguished efforts in providing us with everything interesting and enjoyable in the world of martial arts. Your information is considered a reference in combat methods. I hope that you will devote episodes to Russian combat methods, especially combat sambo and hand-to-hand military combat.
Kani Basami is for the streets, really hard to hit this one well, even if you know it well. Sometimes I go for this in Bjj with my friends when were not sticking to rule sets, but its always in a controlled manner and done with a posting hand and never at full force. I think the issue mostly comes when Tori weighs significantly more than uke and the angle of attack. With big guys they risk, blowing out your knees and achilles. Shooting from the side in a diving motion will destroy the knees, the attack vector needs to be going backwards. Often times Uke will fight this technique instead of going with it which ultimately can lead to more severe injury.
You know, in Capoeira we use a lot Kani basami (we call it Tesoura de Costa) and it is one the safest takedown techniques we have, I've never heard of accidents in performing it (there are more ways to use it, you can do it using more force and your weight to take down your opponent or with more technique slowing the fall and reducing the risk of injuries). It is easier to break a bone getting kicked or with more dangerous takedowns 😅 We use it as a counter to our version of Obi Otoshi (that we call Vingativa) Great video as always 💪
5:34 I had training last week with Dr. Rhadi Ferguson , he still in good shape, powerful grips. We talked about the hard work that you are doing for Judo community.
A lot of these dangerous of near "forbidden" techniques both of my Sensei's/instructors still will teach these in their class as a lesson or if a question is asked (small class easy to watch us) and having a mix of Gi and no-Gi and for the styles of the Sensei one being traditional Japanese style and my other have a Korean style. Just thought this was something interesting to say
We still train Kani Basami in JJJ. Front and rear scissors. I've trained Judo and JJJ for 27 years, I've never seen anyone seriously hurt by this technique.
I still allow it in most Randori sessions. Hapkido and Capoeira practitioners still use it in their own matches and i'm yet to see one of them getting injured by it in the way Judokas do
It don't happen often because JJJ has a minuscule talent pool and no high level sport competition. If you add two of those elements you will people get hurt way more often. Judo banned this for a reason. In Capoeira also there are front and rear scissor, but we also don't see people hurting too.
@@aluisiofsjr If you train it correctly it is fine. JJJ has a minuscule talent pool? Not in my experience. I don't rate BJJ, as their take down game sucks. I know, I'm a blue belt in BJJ.
Its overall prob a good thing that a few of these techniques were taken out. Danaher talks about the big 3 that cause injuries, jump closed guard, Kani Basami, and tani otoshi but from the front. In that double leg you see the tani otoshi technique where the Uke could easily take out the Toure's knee by landing on it. I would think that Kano philosophy would like us to remove certain things from practice, schools and competition for overall development. At this point ibjjf should ban the jumping to closed guard as well. At the end of the day we play it like a sport, similar to what Dr. Rhadi says, you play it. You play judo, you play Jiu Jitsu
My only issue with technique bans is that it leads to most schools never practicing techniques that are good to know regardless of legality in competition. I think every Judoka should know how to do and deal with a double-leg for example.
@@NomadBulldog It's especially weird to me given that, even outside of wrestling-heavy places like North America or the former-Soviet countries, rugby is still a pretty popular sport. I'd bet there's many places where lots of "untrained street thugs" still played rugby growing up, and someone with that background could definitely do at least a basic double-leg on someone. So "wrestling isn't popular where judo is" is still a poor excuse. That said, I did find the mildly-suggested "upward trajectory" rule to be a reasonable compromise for leg grabs in competition. Still gives clubs an incentive to train techniques with leg grabs while keeping the throwing emphasis the IJF wants to aim for.
Tani otoshi with leg grab variants is much safer than a pure Tani Otoshi since grabbing the uke's leg that is near the tori's hips reduces the weight of that leg making that leg less prone to knee injuries.
Picked up a torn ACL on a Monday night light randori off of an O Sotogari. I have plenty of stories of other judoka who have done themselves in. It's about keeping yourself safe and knowing when to call it a day.
How do you tear an ACL with Osoto? Don’t see how it’s possible, you’ll either eat it on your back/head or just ukemi. Not doubting your injury- I’ve just thrown osoto many times and been thrown by it in randori and I can’t see how it’s causing an ACL tear
Congratulations, you're getting older. It's the tendency of human memory to remember the positive memories and forget the boring garbage stuff. I mean, really, we have highlight reels of of stuff from the 60s and 80s, If anyone stitched together a marathon of all the other matches, you think anyone would want to watch them or you think they'd be any more exciting than what we have going on today?
@@Jdac333 Oh. Objective. I see. Please list the objective criteria. Afterall, this should be simple, easy and straightforward, being "objective" and all.
@@ryhk3293very simple. Leg attacks allowed, more time to work on the ground, Less referee interferences. Modern day judo is BORING compared to the judo of the 80s and 90s
The 1st technique you're discussing: he was actually nice making the other guy fall backwards. You can perform this in meaner way when the opponent falls to his knees and with enough force that is almost always a knee injury guarantee
My sensei always said "for those of you who gonna compete I would teach in that regard, for the rest we will study without much of recent times sport Judo restrictions, so it can be useful as a mean of protecting yourself and represent a martial art". He even incorporated some elements of punching in the process. I dont mean by that he let us cripple each other, I can agree with much of what is in this video. Balance is the key, for those who come in Judo not to compete, try to find a dojo where sensei makes such distinction, there's not so few of those masters still around in my experience
Dr. Ferguson’s technique looks more dangerous than the Kani Basami. He’s dumping opponents on their heads! Nevertheless, would love to see a match between him and Teddy Riner with leg-grabs allowed.
Sambo has been using it for decades but they wear leather bottom shoes on a slick mat whereas in wrestling you have much more reliable grip due to the rubber soled shoes and of course tatami is textured increasing the grip Kani basami used to be allowed in wrestling but was banned for the same reason.... Perhaps it's not the technique but the "slip coefficient" of your mat and shoe combination
I don't understand much but I think the same thing happened here (judo) that happened with tkd. It became a sport and we forgot that it is a martial art
leg attacks just need to come back, no doubt. kimuras, americanas, omoplatas, etc should also be allowed on the ground. also no mate when the lapel is over the chin when trying a bow and arrow choke for example. i also wouldnt mate in newaza when one is in a really dominant position like mount or on the back. i added judo to my training half a year ago coming from bjj (now bjj blue belt) and it hurts me seeing so many lost techniques that can be used quite safely. i hate when martial arts get sportified too much for the viewer or other reasons. for me being a wellrounded martial artist / fighter for the self defense aspect trumps fun to watch arguments. banning techniques for safety reasons is a must though.
What seems to have happened is that in the past, Jigoro Kano, Kyuzo Mifune, they were little guys and consequently they needed to rely upon technique and the movement of the opponents body, like a dance. Currently we have big guys doing their technique, which is based on mass and strength against opponents who are much smaller than them. Because Judo competitions are won by the first ippon it becomes necessary to get ippon as fast as possible. Thus Judo is not what it once was, a moving dance of lighter bodied Judoka but a large and strong cohort of Judoka looking for the fastest ippon. Judo is becoming wrestling and sumo. The Gentle Way is now becoming the Mack Truck Way.
I used to train scissors all the time when I first started bjj, theyre actually really easy to defend. You just have to push towards the person as they jump and they go right down because they have no legs to stand on, all timing.
A guy off the street came to the dojo and did kami basami on me and got the legs wrong, insuring my knee. He must have been watching Rambo First Blood 🥝🇳🇿😎
I believe, those techniques should still be learned and mastered. We can't never forget that Judo as an sport/ competition need less aggressive techniques, but the most important thing in learn a martial art is to self-defense and most of those competition techniques will only work in competitions and in the academy. It's a must to master more efficient or agressive way to stop your opponent, yes it will hurt the opponent and that's the goal of any martial arts. I am NOT saying that any white belt should learn it, but all browns and black should.
It's a bit of a shame because these leg attacks, although they still exist in other sports, really have a unique gi-based Judo flavor that is being lost. That said, overall I am fine with removing all manner of techniques for competition. Adhering to specific, (sometimes odd-seeming) rulesets is the only reason we now have MANY different techniques. Athletes were able to focus on ONE area of fighting, and were able to develop new things I seriously doubt we would have ever thought of, otherwise.
That kani basami was by endo was done completely wrong, direction timing everything. I started in 83 when all this was still used never saw anyone injured by kani basami tbh.
One of the most underrated judoka of all time in my honest opinion. Was great in a variety of takedowns, was doing BJJ and competing in adcc before they were popular, and was robbed in the Olympics against the South Korean, did MMA, educated AF too.
i did judo in the past and i liked it but all the schools teaching sport judo and focus mostly on kids.So for self defence wrestling and bjj combined is better
At the rate which BJJ is going, soo BJJ will also be a sport useful only in the sports arena and tournaments. It will have limited to no self defence techniques.
I still reckon these techniques should be taught but not used in tournaments and only used in light rolls. Also that double leg takedown looks more like a rugby tackle.
Jigoro Kano was not a fan of Gedan Judo. His creation came from an era of societal change unlike any other in 1882. Kano, a polymath, envisioned an 'all encompassing' martial art not tied to shiai, kata or self defense. In doing so however in that era he had to serve all those interests to be successful in his determination to 'educate'. I started Judo in 1967, I met Anton Gesink. I ended up teaching for over forty years. 'Bigger, stronger, faster', does not impress me. A little note about Gesink; he was FAST! He had great technique and no desire to hurt anyone. 6'8" 350 Lbs when I met him and FAST! Of course he was strong, but that wasn't necessary. What then is Judo? Why does it exist? Does it exist to display the advantages of being bigger, stronger or even faster? Not if you leave the moral code in the dust. Blessedly I only had occasion to kick one young man out of my class. He thought the words "I'm sorry", absolved him of responsibility. After that and graduating high school he joined the Marines. A tour or two in Iraq led him to join some 'contractors' (mercenaries). When he returned to the states he was 'something else'. He now lives at the Florida State Prison in Starke Florida; convicted of murder. Kano was heavy into moral character. I remain on that path.
I mean, these are quite frankly crippling injuries, that will alter the quality of life if they go wrong… it’s just not worth it. On a side note, this is a great video.
Another thing, Ive been to "judo clubs" in the US. and its not uncommon for instructers (sensei) to be referred to as "master"...😂 what a joke...Ive even seen them wearing shoes on the tatami...walked out in disgust.
Jiujitsu still allows all of these, except ibjjf , i only think kani basami should be regulated, but leg grabs should still be allowed, and i argue if they were, Teddy Reiner, wouldn't have been as successful as he was
I want to learn martial arts for combat efficacy, i dont really care about the sport aspect bc if i have to defend myself or others i need to be able to have techniques that disable an opponent, not win a match
Funnily enough, these techniques work quite well without them Judo is just a bit weaker form of wrestling. If these techs were legal in modern day fighting organizations, judo will definitely takeover.
In a world where rubbish ‘sigma male’, degrading trash talk by Tate or McGregor is glamorized , where Judo is reduced into sport competition, no technique is safe from those ‘grandest warriors’. When the Uke receive the other’s frustration, resentment and greed, instead of respect and humility, injuries are bound to happen
❤😂🎉 It starts getting a bit silly . When, certain rules are enforced. Or people, will play along . Certainly , not many people will go for attacks to the spine in a sports environment. But imagine that double leg. Taketown. The rugby tackle. That's really a silly move . And, a lot of the moves look, silly. In Mixed Martial Arts, or might put someone at risk in a no rules environment . Imagine. The double leg fghhj fghh .
Kani basami can be taught properly but uke needs to lnow how to fall properly judo needs to not ban anything as a technique from the art of judo but sport of judo is destroying the art if more pratice of these techniques were done with proper control i dont see the problem this is why there is an increase in popularity with freestyle judo in usa there however should be a qualification standard to be met before an exceptionallly dangerous technique would be allowed to be applied in competition and at certain higher level of competition only bring control and gentle aspect of art
I'm totally OK with removing dangerous things from competition... but the Judo world seems so sport-minded that once something's nerfed by IJF, it disappears from daily practice and study. It's a small minority of judokas who still consider things like: how to throw a passive or defensive opponent, how to avoid giving up leglocks and entanglements, how to hold a pin longer than half a minute, what to do with illegal grips, how to defend against the banned throws. If Judo is a martial art, these are critical to retain and study, otherwise Judo gives up its seat at the combat table.
Spot on
To be fair, Judo is a sport. The martial art is classical Japanese Jujitsu. I think.
@@mihneaiordan1813 You would be correct, Do is an affix that means 'path' Jutsu is the affix that means skill or technique. This rule applies to other Japanese martial arts such as Kendo, Iaido, Aikido ect. A martial art with the affix Do is done in the spirit of self improvement, they're sports, or performance art as you say. A martial art with Jutsu as the affix is traditionally the more martial side, learning to fight. That all being said, a lot of martial arts have trended away from their practical origins so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the Jutsu affix meaning as much as it once did.
@@Hydros92 The "-do" meaning "way" was chosen becasue Judo is a philosophy and framework for achieving high skill and understanding of the jutsu, and is not focused merely on learning and doing the technique. Kano was innovative in distilling jujutsu to its philosophical and conceptual core to be able to teach how and why the jutsu works, and not just how to do it.
Kano specifically wrote in his book Mind Over Muscle how he arrived at his preference for "-do" instead of "-jutsu", and even says that differentiating Judo from sport was part of it. He refers to jujutsu exhibitionists of the time who presented it as sport: an entertaining and competitive spectacle like Sumo. So really, he chose "-do" because it was *not* a sport :-).
This is not exactly the same as my use of the word sport, by which I mean that Judo has become primarily a competitive and entertaining athletic endeavor focused on victory in shiai. It is much less about studying the "-do", which incorporates many things that go beyond mere athletics and sport.
@@mihneaiordan1813 Well, now we enter the realm of definitions and meanings. It’s common to refer any combat sport including hand-to-hand combat as a “martial art”. This includes aikido that some people would categorize as a “dance” or “form of exercise”. Sorry folks, I have done it.
That size of a man doing a jumping technique is horrifying and awesome at the same time. Nice to watch, but I never want to be in that situation.
I understand why kani-basami and kawazu-gake were taken out - they were banned when I was learning in the 80s.
But the loss of morote-gari, suki-nage, te-guruma and classic kata-guruma still grates for me.
And I have been known to teach them as non-competitive techniques - not just in the kata. Although kata is where some of the techniques not to be practiced in an unstructured way get preserved, in some ways it's not enough.
Morote-gari, suki-nage, and te-guruma are banned mainly to prevent wrestlers from entering Judo competitions using wrestling techniques that are very similar.
@@StevenRayW I think, in addition, it was the Russian Sambo style they were also trying to exclude.
I do think that this goes directly against Kano's intent, to incorporate effective techniques, no matter their origin.
@@richardgodivala4680 I agree. Unfortunately, the martial arts world is full of politics and egos -- especially when it comes to competitions and medals.
I'm based in Taiwan and have done both Japanese and Chinese arts. The Taiji push-hand competitions here do not allow grabbing or foot sweeping because they don't want Judo and Chinese wrestling guys to join and win.
Te garuma is one of Judo's most effective throws. It was taught to Infantrymen and light infantry commandos for decades in unarmed combat.
@@StevenRayW Excellent, they want to put on a gi and compete with us? Let them. If anything the diversity of techniques will strengthen us, and strengthen them aswell.
What I really wish would change is the pace at which judoka are expected to perform in randori. You can see a huge difference between old and recent competition footage. People used to take their time to find the right opportunity or to make one, but now it's just go go or you get a penalty. It can push people to be active, yes, but in my opinion it can cause recklessness of technique which becomes how you perform. I watched the Pan Am Games in Toronto years ago and the judo was awful. Majority of wins were by penalty.
I disagree. Let the sport evolve organically. Amateur wrestling is extremely explosive and nobody ever mentioned it should be slowed down due to supposed injuries.
@@Veritas-dq2hs explosive is fine, but that should be up to the competitors. Blue uniforms and faster penalties we made for spectators so they didn't get bored and knew who did the throw. My comment wasn't exactly regarding injury prevention.
@@Lambert06Pasquale06 the thing about judo rules is they're contradictory. It's all go in stand up but with newaza they will allow turtling up and stalling.
You can reduce the injury of kani basami a lot if you place one of your hands on the mat and then go for it. This gives you a base so all of your body weight isn’t going down on their legs. It also improves control for the technique and makes it easier to hit because you can hold your body weight there
Weight difference can still play a role, yamashita still got injured while Endo had a hand down
@@Chaditrue that
Yeah, Capoeria people usually do it like that, kinda
I have a few instructional videos on my channel on this move. I've been teaching it since I was a blue belt in jiujitsu and never had a single injury in the training room
In capoeira, both hands and sometimes no hands are done.
What's fascinating about the scissor takedown is that it is still completely legal in Freestyle wrestling, and used frequently at the highest levels, including at the latest World Championships. I have seen many examples of that takedown being used at the Olympic level for several decades, and it has never lead to injury, and yet banned from Judo because of several prominent, but rare, injuries.
I think the gi holds add more power to the takedown. But, yeah, even in high school wrestling you see the occasional scissors.
The gi probably does act as more of a restraining hold on the opponent being scissored, as they can't move/scramble out as wrestlers can.@@donaldnewell4868
the cotton gi , give alot of extra grip, extra injuries
uma coisa é um competidor olímpico, outra é um praticante normal ou um iniciante.
Damn i trained this in the 80s. My instructor was under tutoring of japanese master who came out once a year for higher gradings and instructor. I remember these still being taught for advanced students but by the end of my student years it was no longer taught by 1991.
Variations on all of these techniques are still used at the highest levels of freestyle wrestling without any serious injury.
while this is true, Im still enjoying my time learning Olympic Judo it was the best grappling art available close to my area. I like how Judo covers both: takedowns & submissions / chokes. Wrestling is often separate, Jiu Jitsu is often separate. I like this more Jack of All Trades approach. I would have joined Catch Wrestling but that aint anywhere here.
I fight jiu jitsu and I tell you: it is not separate, the objective of Jiu Jitsu is to finish, if possible while standing, or to take down the opponent and land in an advantageous position and submit. In general, this is the goal of Jiu Jitsu. What differs from the technical part of Judo is that Jiu Jitsu was made for self-defense, which is why strangling, twisting, joint locks on the foot are allowed, and it also doesn't include many perspectives where you turn your back, so as not to be strangled. Newaza became superior to judo due to the fact that it was trained and developed over a long time, creating new inversions, ways of finishing, defenses, etc.
train Jiu Jitsu in a academy that trains the complete art, not just the ground sport, Jiu Jitsu is complete.
Catch Wrestliing is rad but very scarce, canada , europe and some small american places exist but not much
@@thebluepen1Are you talking about Brazilian Jiujitsu?
We teach a very safe Kani Waza (aka Kani Basami), on our NIdan tests. It is a shame so many great techniques are outlawed and not practiced in sport. Great video, Chadi. I'd still love to be on some time, like we talked about, if you want a self-defense/combat perspective.
Old Judo shows its lineage of a war martial art. Crippling was part of it.
I actually don't really see the issue with ankle hooks on throws. I don't quite understand what would realistically go wrong with Kawazu gake with the setup shown here.
It´s an (dangerous!) attack against the opponents knee. If the attacker is straightening out his leg while it´s hooked in, it results basically in a joint lock. But Kansetsu Waza are only allowed against the ellbow joint in Judo tournaments. That´s because the elbow joint is the only joint where the sensation of pain begins well before the injury.
In original ju-jitsu and lot of traditional martial arts, you didn't do a full execution or you modified it in practice to avoid injury because execution of the technique was meant to either injure or kill the opponent.
Also, both ju-jitus and judo originally integrated strikes and kicks as well as weapons.
I love your videos Chadi, merci beaucoup pour partager votre connaissance à propo du judo 🥋
As a guy who broke his leg & ankle on a kosoto gake 2 months ago, I might watch this when I can walk properly again.
Please look after yourselves, even your opponents.
I got the same injury and at the same time tore my ligaments in my ankle, I started Judo rather late at 38. I also broke fingers toes, shoulder, tore my abductor muscle and a myriad of other injuries, but I carried on till I got my Dan Grade at aged 42.
@@gooderspitman8052 sounds like we're on a similar trajectory: snapped my fibula, have 2 screws holding fib & tib together at the ankle. Started judo at 33, but I've been doing bjj since I was 19 (I'm 36).
Hope you're doing well mate.
I’m 66 now, but glad I stuck it out. I learned a lot more than just a martial art. Take care fellow Judoka.
Hello, since you've been doing this for so long I was wondering, how do prevent injury and what precautions would you advise?@@gooderspitman8052
Sumo's skin legend Takanoyama was very succesful with the leg hook throws
There are a number of setups for kani basami that are less risky. They are also less effective. It's a real trick to find a balance but it can be done.
Any instructional books or videos on forbidden methods. Then the counters to the forbidden techniques?
3:13 what you were calling morotegari is not that... morote means two hands
Thank you for your distinguished efforts in providing us with everything interesting and enjoyable in the world of martial arts. Your information is considered a reference in combat methods. I hope that you will devote episodes to Russian combat methods, especially combat sambo and hand-to-hand military combat.
Thanks for the video ❤
Kani Basami is for the streets, really hard to hit this one well, even if you know it well. Sometimes I go for this in Bjj with my friends when were not sticking to rule sets, but its always in a controlled manner and done with a posting hand and never at full force. I think the issue mostly comes when Tori weighs significantly more than uke and the angle of attack. With big guys they risk, blowing out your knees and achilles. Shooting from the side in a diving motion will destroy the knees, the attack vector needs to be going backwards. Often times Uke will fight this technique instead of going with it which ultimately can lead to more severe injury.
To use in war, suddenly any forbidden technique is no longer forbidden.
even in war, there are rules. funny humans lol
but its not like you're gonna have a john wick moment during a war
You know, in Capoeira we use a lot Kani basami (we call it Tesoura de Costa) and it is one the safest takedown techniques we have, I've never heard of accidents in performing it (there are more ways to use it, you can do it using more force and your weight to take down your opponent or with more technique slowing the fall and reducing the risk of injuries).
It is easier to break a bone getting kicked or with more dangerous takedowns 😅
We use it as a counter to our version of Obi Otoshi (that we call Vingativa)
Great video as always 💪
I believe its the downward force from gripping the gi that makes it more dangerous in judo
5:34 I had training last week with Dr. Rhadi Ferguson , he still in good shape, powerful grips. We talked about the hard work that you are doing for Judo community.
A video about Kurash would be interesting lml .
Aikijutsu skill is good in Judo it awakens you how to shatter center of gravity.
This is true. Daito Ryu refined my Judo and Jujutsu greatly.
A lot of these dangerous of near "forbidden" techniques both of my Sensei's/instructors still will teach these in their class as a lesson or if a question is asked (small class easy to watch us) and having a mix of Gi and no-Gi and for the styles of the Sensei one being traditional Japanese style and my other have a Korean style. Just thought this was something interesting to say
Im always reccomending you to look up norse glima. I just wish you would once.
My dojo still teaches and uses kane sute. It is a listed kata for belt promotions in Danzan Ryu.
In my Jiu jitsu classes I still teach KaniBasami , tami Otoshi . But banned the use in class during fighting
❤
Excelente el judo video OSS saludos 👊🇨🇱🤗🥋
Amazing we were taught the scissors throws as lower-level belts (Green/Blue). Traditional Korean school. Tae Kwon Do/Judo/Hapkido
We still train Kani Basami in JJJ. Front and rear scissors. I've trained Judo and JJJ for 27 years, I've never seen anyone seriously hurt by this technique.
In recent years someone hurt their knee, on the international stage
I still allow it in most Randori sessions.
Hapkido and Capoeira practitioners still use it in their own matches and i'm yet to see one of them getting injured by it in the way Judokas do
It don't happen often because JJJ has a minuscule talent pool and no high level sport competition. If you add two of those elements you will people get hurt way more often. Judo banned this for a reason. In Capoeira also there are front and rear scissor, but we also don't see people hurting too.
@@aluisiofsjr If you train it correctly it is fine. JJJ has a minuscule talent pool? Not in my experience. I don't rate BJJ, as their take down game sucks. I know, I'm a blue belt in BJJ.
@@Chadi Not saying it doesn't happen. But if Tori trains it, and Uke knows how to fall correctly, it's safer than hane-makikomi for instance.
Its overall prob a good thing that a few of these techniques were taken out. Danaher talks about the big 3 that cause injuries, jump closed guard, Kani Basami, and tani otoshi but from the front. In that double leg you see the tani otoshi technique where the Uke could easily take out the Toure's knee by landing on it. I would think that Kano philosophy would like us to remove certain things from practice, schools and competition for overall development. At this point ibjjf should ban the jumping to closed guard as well. At the end of the day we play it like a sport, similar to what Dr. Rhadi says, you play it. You play judo, you play Jiu Jitsu
My only issue with technique bans is that it leads to most schools never practicing techniques that are good to know regardless of legality in competition. I think every Judoka should know how to do and deal with a double-leg for example.
@@NomadBulldog It's especially weird to me given that, even outside of wrestling-heavy places like North America or the former-Soviet countries, rugby is still a pretty popular sport. I'd bet there's many places where lots of "untrained street thugs" still played rugby growing up, and someone with that background could definitely do at least a basic double-leg on someone. So "wrestling isn't popular where judo is" is still a poor excuse.
That said, I did find the mildly-suggested "upward trajectory" rule to be a reasonable compromise for leg grabs in competition. Still gives clubs an incentive to train techniques with leg grabs while keeping the throwing emphasis the IJF wants to aim for.
@@NomadBulldog I agree, I think this more of a fault on the curicculum set by the federations and the clubs themselves
kani-basami is really dangerous but why they removed the others movements?
I did Silat before and they allow kani basami but it only scores when you dont use the hand.
The scissor sweep/"tesoura" is often done in Capoeira.
We have no gi though, so no grips.
Tani otoshi with leg grab variants is much safer than a pure Tani Otoshi since grabbing the uke's leg that is near the tori's hips reduces the weight of that leg making that leg less prone to knee injuries.
Picked up a torn ACL on a Monday night light randori off of an O Sotogari. I have plenty of stories of other judoka who have done themselves in. It's about keeping yourself safe and knowing when to call it a day.
How do you tear an ACL with Osoto? Don’t see how it’s possible, you’ll either eat it on your back/head or just ukemi. Not doubting your injury- I’ve just thrown osoto many times and been thrown by it in randori and I can’t see how it’s causing an ACL tear
I hope they still allowed uchimata to ouchigari or ouchigari to uchimata now
Judo looked so much better than now
Congratulations, you're getting older. It's the tendency of human memory to remember the positive memories and forget the boring garbage stuff.
I mean, really, we have highlight reels of of stuff from the 60s and 80s, If anyone stitched together a marathon of all the other matches, you think anyone would want to watch them or you think they'd be any more exciting than what we have going on today?
@@ryhk3293nope. Was objectively better before.
@@Jdac333 Oh. Objective. I see. Please list the objective criteria.
Afterall, this should be simple, easy and straightforward, being "objective" and all.
@@ryhk3293very simple. Leg attacks allowed, more time to work on the ground, Less referee interferences. Modern day judo is BORING compared to the judo of the 80s and 90s
The 1st technique you're discussing: he was actually nice making the other guy fall backwards. You can perform this in meaner way when the opponent falls to his knees and with enough force that is almost always a knee injury guarantee
Seems like the gi makes kani basami A LOT more dangerous.
Makes you literally defenseless as you cant untie yourself in time to defend
We drilled Kani Basami for an hour the other week in Catch Wrestling class... Luckily there were no injuries. Super sketchy!
My sensei always said "for those of you who gonna compete I would teach in that regard, for the rest we will study without much of recent times sport Judo restrictions, so it can be useful as a mean of protecting yourself and represent a martial art". He even incorporated some elements of punching in the process. I dont mean by that he let us cripple each other, I can agree with much of what is in this video. Balance is the key, for those who come in Judo not to compete, try to find a dojo where sensei makes such distinction, there's not so few of those masters still around in my experience
Não se esqueçam que judô, jiu-jitsu,etc. são técnicas de combate, sendo assim elas eram usadas para incapacitar ou até matar.
Scissors technique is very common in penchack silat tournaments.
Dr. Ferguson’s technique looks more dangerous than the Kani Basami. He’s dumping opponents on their heads! Nevertheless, would love to see a match between him and Teddy Riner with leg-grabs allowed.
Sambo has been using it for decades but they wear leather bottom shoes on a slick mat whereas in wrestling you have much more reliable grip due to the rubber soled shoes and of course tatami is textured increasing the grip
Kani basami used to be allowed in wrestling but was banned for the same reason....
Perhaps it's not the technique but the "slip coefficient" of your mat and shoe combination
I don't understand much but I think the same thing happened here (judo) that happened with tkd. It became a sport and we forgot that it is a martial art
leg attacks just need to come back, no doubt.
kimuras, americanas, omoplatas, etc should also be allowed on the ground.
also no mate when the lapel is over the chin when trying a bow and arrow choke for example.
i also wouldnt mate in newaza when one is in a really dominant position like mount or on the back.
i added judo to my training half a year ago coming from bjj (now bjj blue belt) and it hurts me seeing so many lost techniques that can be used quite safely. i hate when martial arts get sportified too much for the viewer or other reasons.
for me being a wellrounded martial artist / fighter for the self defense aspect trumps fun to watch arguments.
banning techniques for safety reasons is a must though.
Kimuras Americanas (both called ude gatame) have always been allowed in judo.
Not sure about omoplata, but I don't see why not, it's a shoulder lock.
What seems to have happened is that in the past, Jigoro Kano, Kyuzo Mifune, they were little guys and consequently they needed to rely upon technique and the movement of the opponents body, like a dance. Currently we have big guys doing their technique, which is based on mass and strength against opponents who are much smaller than them. Because Judo competitions are won by the first ippon it becomes necessary to get ippon as fast as possible. Thus Judo is not what it once was, a moving dance of lighter bodied Judoka but a large and strong cohort of Judoka looking for the fastest ippon. Judo is becoming wrestling and sumo. The Gentle Way is now becoming the Mack Truck Way.
Gunji Koizumi, The father of British Judo have the same thought as you
It’s nuts No Gi BJJ still allows Kani-Basami
I used to train scissors all the time when I first started bjj, theyre actually really easy to defend. You just have to push towards the person as they jump and they go right down because they have no legs to stand on, all timing.
Silver comment checkin in. Amazing video 🥋
It’s actually bronze:/
@@Chadiyeah lol
@@Chadican i still get a participation trophy 🥺
@@jestfullgremblim8002sure
*Homer Simpson to the sky "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
今の柔道はオリンピックや世界選手権によって変えられたスポーツ、柔道レスリング。
柔よく剛を制すの精神を海外の人は本当に理解しているのか？
もっと礼を重んじて欲しい。
A guy off the street came to the dojo and did kami basami on me and got the legs wrong, insuring my knee. He must have been watching Rambo First Blood
🥝🇳🇿😎
We’re in 2023… we evolved preserving ourselves. In the Old school martial arts there were damages that you can’t imagine…
I believe, those techniques should still be learned and mastered. We can't never forget that Judo as an sport/ competition need less aggressive techniques, but the most important thing in learn a martial art is to self-defense and most of those competition techniques will only work in competitions and in the academy. It's a must to master more efficient or agressive way to stop your opponent, yes it will hurt the opponent and that's the goal of any martial arts. I am NOT saying that any white belt should learn it, but all browns and black should.
It's a bit of a shame because these leg attacks, although they still exist in other sports, really have a unique gi-based Judo flavor that is being lost. That said, overall I am fine with removing all manner of techniques for competition. Adhering to specific, (sometimes odd-seeming) rulesets is the only reason we now have MANY different techniques. Athletes were able to focus on ONE area of fighting, and were able to develop new things I seriously doubt we would have ever thought of, otherwise.
Dr. Rodney Ferguson is intimidating. The Mike Tyson of judo. Thank you again Chadi. 🙇🏾♂️
That was normal. And some sambo throws we practiced were sooo dangerous. We also jumped over live katana and sparred with live blades.
今の柔道はタタミレスリングに改名すべき
Something about these old school sumo-looking judokas is so intimidating.
We used that scissor takedown in karate. I never cared for it.
That kani basami was by endo was done completely wrong, direction timing everything.
I started in 83 when all this was still used never saw anyone injured by kani basami tbh.
Dr rhadi ferguson is such a beast! Great video Chadi
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
One of the most underrated judoka of all time in my honest opinion. Was great in a variety of takedowns, was doing BJJ and competing in adcc before they were popular, and was robbed in the Olympics against the South Korean, did MMA, educated AF too.
i did judo in the past and i liked it but all the schools teaching sport judo and focus mostly on kids.So for self defence wrestling and bjj combined is better
chang maintained his upward posture and there was no body control
At the rate which BJJ is going, soo BJJ will also be a sport useful only in the sports arena and tournaments.
It will have limited to no self defence techniques.
I still reckon these techniques should be taught but not used in tournaments and only used in light rolls. Also that double leg takedown looks more like a rugby tackle.
scissors technique is common use in pencak silat tournament
You should look at Karl Geis he really took off-balance teaching too another level.
Jigoro Kano was not a fan of Gedan Judo. His creation came from an era of societal change unlike any other in 1882. Kano, a polymath, envisioned an 'all encompassing' martial art not tied to shiai, kata or self defense. In doing so however in that era he had to serve all those interests to be successful in his determination to 'educate'. I started Judo in 1967, I met Anton Gesink. I ended up teaching for over forty years. 'Bigger, stronger, faster', does not impress me. A little note about Gesink; he was FAST! He had great technique and no desire to hurt anyone. 6'8" 350 Lbs when I met him and FAST! Of course he was strong, but that wasn't necessary. What then is Judo? Why does it exist? Does it exist to display the advantages of being bigger, stronger or even faster? Not if you leave the moral code in the dust. Blessedly I only had occasion to kick one young man out of my class. He thought the words "I'm sorry", absolved him of responsibility. After that and graduating high school he joined the Marines. A tour or two in Iraq led him to join some 'contractors' (mercenaries). When he returned to the states he was 'something else'. He now lives at the Florida State Prison in Starke Florida; convicted of murder.
Kano was heavy into moral character. I remain on that path.
I mean, these are quite frankly crippling injuries, that will alter the quality of life if they go wrong… it’s just not worth it. On a side note, this is a great video.
Another thing, Ive been to "judo clubs" in the US. and its not uncommon for instructers (sensei) to be referred to as "master"...😂 what a joke...Ive even seen them wearing shoes on the tatami...walked out in disgust.
Jiujitsu still allows all of these, except ibjjf , i only think kani basami should be regulated, but leg grabs should still be allowed, and i argue if they were, Teddy Reiner, wouldn't have been as successful as he was
our jujutsu dojo still does kami basami
I want to learn martial arts for combat efficacy, i dont really care about the sport aspect bc if i have to defend myself or others i need to be able to have techniques that disable an opponent, not win a match
They should bring leg grabs and some leg locks back.
Also, atemi should be taught...
This kind of technique similar to Silat "teknik gunting"
Nothing wrong in training dangerous moves but not using it in competition. Its a great technique to use in a self defense sutuation.
ルールばかりをいじくって、技はどのように上達するのか、技を用いて戦うということが、どういうことか研究を疎かにした柔道界からは、柔よく剛を制するはなくなるでしょう。
全日本選手権(体重差別なし)で中量級岡野選手が優勝したようなことはもうないのでは？と思います。
Funnily enough, these techniques work quite well without them Judo is just a bit weaker form of wrestling. If these techs were legal in modern day fighting organizations, judo will definitely takeover.
I hope it will return back one day
As soon as it becomes a sport, it's done.
Make a new Judo league where you can do all of this.
for me doesnt make any sense not allow pants grips... people should know how to deal with it
We just did these in college MMA club because we didnt know what was scary or not 😬
Please be careful
Lol
“Go ahead and fight and punch each other in the head but be careful with this stupid trip’
Woooo!!!! Gold first comment
What, is this like your 3rd in a row? 🥇
🥇
@@PsychologyStudthat's crazy
In a world where rubbish ‘sigma male’, degrading trash talk by Tate or McGregor is glamorized , where Judo is reduced into sport competition, no technique is safe from those ‘grandest warriors’. When the Uke receive the other’s frustration, resentment and greed, instead of respect and humility, injuries are bound to happen
This is a pure self-defense move.
❤😂🎉 It starts getting a bit silly . When, certain rules are enforced. Or people, will play along .
Certainly , not many people will go for attacks to the spine in a sports environment.
But imagine that double leg. Taketown. The rugby tackle. That's really a silly move .
And, a lot of the moves look, silly. In Mixed Martial Arts, or might put someone at risk in a no rules environment .
Imagine. The double leg fghhj fghh .
Judo tsigjt us how to think. By eliminating practice we narrow our ways of thinking
Kani basami can be taught properly but uke needs to lnow how to fall properly judo needs to not ban anything as a technique from the art of judo but sport of judo is destroying the art if more pratice of these techniques were done with proper control i dont see the problem this is why there is an increase in popularity with freestyle judo in usa there however should be a qualification standard to be met before an exceptionallly dangerous technique would be allowed to be applied in competition and at certain higher level of competition only bring control and gentle aspect of art
Have we become a generation of babies? It’s a combat sport, not ballet.
Old school judo is better than the modern day sport judo
岡野功先生が最後やったな
A good Morote Gari can be devastating. touching the leg rule is rubbish, a lot of spectacular techniques have been lost.