Cross trained in Judo and Wrestling Judo helped massively in Wrestling. I started Judo because I noticed all the best wrestlers in highschool were also very good Judokas the two Judokas in my highschool were 3rd in wrestling In the state wrestling tournament and the female was first and they were siblings
Sports sambo too very good to crosstrain with wrestling , because technically sports sambo is almost the same stuff that judo was before reforms . Vlad Koulikov proves that
Overrated might be the wrong word. I'd say "Hyper-popular" in the global sports community since it is the most practiced style of grappling/wrestling, followed by Freestyle.
I trained wrestling to help my judo. One of my teammates was a junior (under 20 years old) national champion in judo and collegiate national champion in wrestling in the same year. A lot fo my judo teammates were great high school wrestlers and many of them wrestled in college.
It's good, once you clinch since a double and single would be awkward or lost of opportunity when the distance has been closed. Ive seen Judo black belts that had Wrestled in high school/ College; dominate other Judo black belts.
I'm a judo player... because wrestling wasn't a thing in my area when I was younger. Love coming up against wrestlers because I don't know what I'm gonna get. So much to learn from each, it's just all grappling
Judo does not "shoot" for legs, What Judo does is called a "snatch" in wrestling terminology "shooting" is when you put your knee down and commit to the step through!
One of the greatest quotes I heard was from Satoshi Ishii. I think it was in a Donmai video. He said the rule change to remove leg grabs was absolutely BS because wrestlers had all the opportunities in the world up until that point to win plenty of world judo titles and Olympic medals. But you know what happened? The judokas won most of the time.
Jigoro Kano was teaching the upright fighting stance because when someone uses the bent over wrestling stance, is susceptible to atemi waza, at any moment.We must remember that the Judo in the old days was more towards self defense having in mind that in a street scenario, atemi waza is a part of a fight. Thank you.
I agree with you that one should be mindful of strikes when thinking about their stance. But wouldn’t that be the same as saying an upright stance opens one up to lower body attacks? In my opinion, the reason judokas can use the upright stance is because of control from the gi. Changing levels becomes a lot more challenging if you’re having to grip and hand fight. Edit: Just saw where Chadi mentioned this towards the end of the video.
Es mas facil defenderse o repeler un ataque si estas erguido q si permaneces en una postura defensiva con tu centro de gravedad bajo, hay q recordar q ono no es muy alto por eso se siente mas comodo erguido
I think an interesting follow up video to this would be one exploring the stances used in various jacket/clothing styles of European wrestling, especially any that allow leg grabs.
Thanks Chadi. You actually remind me my randori with a Black Belt two weeks ago. I'm 36 a green belt and he is at his 20s and a Black belt. He was trying to throw me several times but everytime I use my hip defense to nullify his attack. It bought me some time to counter.
Do people not know that wrestlers do more than just shoot double legs? I wrestled mostly upper body, doing an occasional firemans or single leg, never did double legs but I could stop doubles. I worked out with Judo guys and it was even matches since we both did throws that were different.
Any tips on implimenting more upperbody attacks I seem to struggle with them more compared to your usual single or double legs How do you set them up from hand fighting?
@@neowneow13 - I find the big key to upperbody is moving forward. You don't play paddy cake with hands, you close in. If you are used to shooting you like that distance and getting close is going to make you uncomfortable. I have found there are three types of people with take downs. Those that throw, those that shoot and those that sweep/trip. Everyone gets good at one, some are good at two; I've never meet someone that is good at all three.
@@SwordFighterPKNyou are exactly right brother,I suck at shooting but am a king at throws and quite good at sweeping,I'm a judoka so anything shooting I am not always to confident
@@neowneow13 I can tell you I use a lot of arm drags and Russian arm ties which leads to a lot of upper body, under hooks, wizzers, body locks goose-neck clinches, etc...come off of arm attacks.
The sprawl is a great defense with leg takedowns(single and double). The wrestling stance of bending over is only done in transition in street fights. For example when in a fight you clinch you may go into this stance briefly.
Last week I watched the European Championship, and most Judokas fight bent over, using techniques like Pasatka (variant of Kata-guruma). The point is simple, bring back the old Judo, just stick to proper judging, "passive attack is punishment", we all know what negative Judo is, and that's it.
I have run into a few wrestlers who have told stories about encountering judoka and being helpless against them. These were guys who wrestled at state championship levels in the big wrestling states. In each case, the judoka was older and more experienced, but in each case the wrestlers just blown away by the experience. At the 2:20 mark that hip checking is found in many classical styles of yawara or jujutsu, and it is usually a deeper stance that locks the opponent's knees, involves striking to finish a throw and the possibility to severely damage the knee or back of the opponent (similar but not exactly why kane basame is considered so dangerous, imagine it in armor). There is a jujutsu school that specialized in the acrobatic escapes you see in the MMA footage. I suspect more than one. All of this is based off of stance work that is upright, with the hips under you in a particular way and a particular sequencing of body action, and it all was influenced by the wearing of armor. This is very related to how Mizune did what he did and old Judo, imo. This is why the belt grabbing was important in judo, you can't grab the armor, but you could grab the obi that secured the tachi, same with Sumo, and an upright stance was necessary. The wearing of swords also influenced yawara techniques. These classical methods are easy to talk about, not easy to do, and when you meet someone who can, it is a whole new experience. That's why there are so few who can do it. it is much more straight forward to be strong and fast, but you can only be so strong and fast. The advent of competitive Judo changed the arts into something different, and that is fine. It's its own animal. Some in each generation "rediscover" some of the classical principles and they usually excel as a result. It can be a secret sauce.
The upright posture of Judo is absolutely genius... that coupled with the rice Bale throw makes wrestling a different game. The upright posture also converts to mixed martial arts much better than the bent over stance of other Combat Sports. I taught my high school wrestlers to stand up more straight and when someone tried to shoot for their legs hit them with a rice Bale throw or use your increased drop momentum to sprawl them flat. If you drop from a deeply squatted stance you don't have that much drop pressure but if you drop from nearly standing your weight hits much harder smashing their leg attack with a heavier Force!
I’m someone who wrestled through highschool to D3 in college from the 189 LBS through Heavyweight. It’s funny because my coaches had the top 3 weight classes focus on upper body techniques for example my bread and butter was a headlock takedown into a reverse headlock takedown. I will say the Tawara Gaeshi Chadi showed is a move I’ve naturally come to use as a shoot defense except I try to turn all the way through and through in the legs
hmm i'm not sure if i'm getting your take on that correctly. Let me sum it up. So, you're saying you learn your guys in wrestling the upright stance, since it transists better into mma and from there you can use your body weight and gravitation better to both defending incomming moves with like a full body weight sprawl or countering a incomming move with stuff like a rice bale throw, right? Then my question would be, how much utility does a rice bale throw bing to the table especially considering the setting of mma, since you will both be landing flat and noone of both fighters will have a dominant position for follow ups like GroundNPound or submissions? (considering you're not doing the single leg counter where you fully roll with your partner into mount, because they you'd have this advantageous position im talking about)...Care to elaborate?
@@janosch7210 I think the greatest utility comes from the original move pile-driving the head into the ground which obviously wouldn't be legal in sport which is another example of how sportification ruins martial arts.
Not standing upright in wrestling is not only about protecting the legs as it's also done in greco roman wrestling. This is because if one is upright and the other is slightly crouched, then all that is needed is to grab the upright one and straighten up to remove contact from the ground making throwing pretty easy. The jacket does change that, but that is also why wrestling have an advantage when there is no jacket.
In My first wrestling tournament a coach from.another team (that i had never met) came to me at half and asked if i did judo. I was puzzled and said yes. He replied with STOP DOING JUDO. He then gave me a quick recap on the wrestling stance and i went back at it. Once i got into wrestling a bit more i did pretty good with some big throws. Did well with ashiwaza as well. Love both sports.
As someone who has done both for over 15 years, I consider judo one of a very few styles that can rival it when it comes to takedowns, I also consider it an awesome art to cross train wrestling with, and if you do Greco Roman wrestling you will love and excel at judo.
From experience, Judo and wrestling are extremely complimentary. From gi to no gi, shots to throws, blocks to leg sweeps, they are good for each other.
I think if you combine, wrestling with judo than you become a ultimate grappler. Listen wrestling = strength and explosion and stamina . While judo = strength and endurance but wrestling too.
OK I don’t know whether the headline on this video is Just some kind of Clickbait. But watching the video I do very much agree with everything that you said. Being able to check someone with your hips and your legs can be huge both in judo and in wrestling. Wrestling does take it one step further with sprawling because more often than not unless you’re doing Greco-Roman wrestling someone is going to shoot on you. But going back to the headline is judo defenseless against wrestling? Absolutely not. You just have to be able to modify your training in order to be prepared for those situation’s. Learning how to sprawl should be essential learning for most grappling martial arts whether you use it all the time or not. It’s a great way To train your body to throw those hips forward.
@@tichtran664 Submission grappling is a different beast. Regular wrestlers lose there too. Its a BJJ/Catch Wrestling/Submission Wrestling fest. You never see Sambo amount to much in it either, yet they don't get shit. Takedown focused arts are just not good in submission rules.
A friend of mine I trained with was a 3 times national Jr. wrestling champion and a high school state wrestling champion. He wrestled standing straight up.
With cloths on or a GI, shooting on legs is much more difficult. It is a lot easy to control a person and defend leg shots when grabbing their jacket or shirt. That’s why Judo practice is better for self defense than wretched. Especially with chokes and arm bars.
@@MrCmon113 Peopld don't typically run around in skin tight rash guards, mankinis or swimming trunks either. We usually wear shirts. You can grab a shirt and throw with it.
In my opinion leg grabs should be allowed but with the rule that you should not knee drop to go for it. Makes it also applicable to self defense/combat when there is hard surface, what do you think @chadi?
Unfortunately unless the wrestler has a Gi top on, we MAY have a “hard time” to grab them. Yes, the clench but then it’s no gi and (IMO) no gi is “wrestling” Fk I love this sport 🤩
Здравствуйте уважаемый Чади, смотрю ваши видео. Сегодня посмотрел это видео, полностью с вами согласен. Вы очень правильно всё объяснили. Полностью вас поддерживаю. Раньше занимался дзюдо, хорошая вещь, но захваты за ноги и блокировка ног руками отсутствует. В этом видео вв очень грамотно разобрали защиту. Продолжайте пожалуйста делать такие видео, лично я,их с удовольствием смотрю)))
Yes, no-Gi judo practitioner vs freestyle wrestler with similar experience - judo would lose dominance. The only problem with wrestling is no training on submitting an opponent. Wrestling + BJJ is the golden combo for no striking fighting ❤
William Fairbairn, a British policeman in Shanghai who trained WW2 soldiers in hand to hand combat, was originally a wrestler and then became obsessed with judo as it was far more practical for his job. I thought this was odd as you constantly hear wrestling is superior, but if people are fully clothed, usually wearing jackets in most countries then judo would be far more effective when out in public.
If knees and kicks to the face were allowed would wrestlers and BJJ guys bend over? I think Judo and Greco stances lend themselves to MMA and all the elements of wrestling and BJJ follow after at least some contact is made.
You level change the moment you start wrestling anyways. But yeah I guess if you can't do any mma training, it's probably good to wrestle from upright position a but as well.
Wrestlers don't just lean over because of a lack of grips (though that may be part of it), it's because an important part of shooting in on a takedown is the "level change" where you drop down to breach the opponent's defense. If your defense is based low, the opponent's level change will have to be more exaggerated, and if you decide to shoot, you're already half way there
So, leg grabs were removed from Olympic judo, because when the 2012 Olympic games in London were approaching, there was a real threat that judo was going to be removed from the Olympics, because the question was asked "What's the difference between judo and wrestling, and why do we need both?" so the International Judo Federation (IJF) changed judo's rules, to try and differentiate it from wrestling, so that judo could stay in the Olympics. One of those rules was that leg grabs were removed, and as such, techniques involving leg grabs, such as Sakui Nage (Scooping Throw), Morote Gari (Two Hand Reap) and the traditional Kata Guruma (Shoulder Wheel) could no longer be used. I wouldn't say judo is "helpless" against wrestling, I think it depends on the context. For example, if a wrestler enters a judo competition and uses only their wrestling, they may not do very well... likewise, if a judoka (judo practitioner) enters a wrestling competition and attempts to only use their judo, the judoka will probably not do very well, either. On a personal level, in 2010 when I was a green belt in judo, I entered a competition interstate for judo, competing in the senior men's -100kg division. As there weren't enough competitors in my weight class, we were shifted up to the +100kg open division. One of our opponents was a yellow belt in judo, brand new to judo, but he was a national champion at Greco Roman wrestling. When he and I competed against one another, I won the match, but he won "the fight" - he was not only heavier and stronger than me, but I had never competed against a wrestler before, so it was a rough-as-guts experience for me... in fairness, if this person had more experience in judo, as well as a better understanding of judo's rules, I believe he would have beat me in the match, as well.
That's why banning leg grabs castrated judo. The sport has so many ways to deal with that but instead they decided to ban it and now no one remembers how to.
thats kind of like saying "the tradiotional wrestling stance is bad against muay thai because you could just knee him to the face" OBVIOUSLY if different rules exist the stance changes
The traditional upright stance in judo is because the grappling and throwing of old KoRyu JuJutsu was developed for combat use where you would end up in a clinch because you crashed into each other while fighting with swords, look at Kendo and how often they end up in close quarters.
Yes, judoka would still adopt an upright posture. Leg grabs used to be allowed - there is throw called morote gari in the shimesho no waza. As for pushing your hips forward, that is something we practiced a lot in judo. Utsuri goshi is a technique that when done as a counter uses that hip defense. You use a similar motion when you sprawl in wrestling to defend a shot. You do not pull your hips back, you push your hips forward and throw your legs back and drop your center of gravity to the floor. Just as you mention a sprawl is really just the hop defense you learn in judo. Also, the bent over stance wrestlers take is not very practicle in a self-defense situation. You very rarely see mma fighters adopt that stance because you are open to knee strikes to your face or elbow strikes to the top and back of your head and your back. It is also not a very good stance to throw strikes from. The judo posture is a better self defense posture.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't having a base in Greco roman Wrestling be more beneficial when transferring into Judo, than it would be having a freestyle/folkstyle base?
Can’t see a wrestler wanting to break your arms or strangle you out judo is more technical because of the amount of throws and counters available because of the use of a gi
The reason is because of greed. I cross train judo and oly weightlifting. It's the IOC destroying both. Wrestling too. All destroyed by the Olympic IOC. They removed leg grabs because the IOC didn't want judo to be too similar to wrestling because they wanted variety. WIth Olympic weightlifting, the IOC forced the IWF to change the weight classes 4 times in 3 years, that destroyed a lot of top competitors' careers. With Wrestling, the IOC straight up wanted to remove it from the olympics so they could make more money with events like 3v3 basketball or breakdancing. F**k the IOC
In mma, you can see judoka vs wrestlers. Look at Miesha Tate attempting a double leg vs Ronda Rousey who countered it with a harai goshi. Look at Khabib Nurmagomedov who used judo moves vs Rafael Dos Anjos and Edson Barboza in the clinch.
I think a problem that judo faces against a true wrestling shot is not understanding how to stop the drive off a shot. Much like how judo needs an off balancing, wrestling has the same requirement. The advantage wrestling has over judo is the ability to sprint through an opponent. This is the same fantasy that BJJ has with defending against a takedown. They imagine they can "just guillotine" the way that judo thinks they can "just stop or just throw" a wrestler if you aren't getting that feeling of what it is like to defend/counter this technique then it is all theory. Wrestling however does have big throws and footsweeps albeit without a jacket. But that is just one aspect they need to adapt to where as not defending shots is a whole set of problems for judo to adapt/solve.
Jigoro Kano's original system was great, Judo is wonderful when the art is practiced fully, newaza and all the throws (none of that BS from IFJ or the Olympics). I dare say it was one of the most complete martial arts, then all these stupid rules neutered the art and now wrestling and jiu jitsu filled in the niche..
Depends on your approach to Judo. I took adult Judo classes and approach was to learn techniques but apply them to self defense. Sports Judo approach is intended to win matches under rules set by governing organization.
Well I would say that if you only train either folkstyle or freestyle there could be an advantage for judo. But Greco Roman wrestling definitely is at least equal to if not slightly superior to judo for MMA.
@@1massboyI mean the Folkstyle guys do really well though. They are actually good at holding guys down unlike freestyle and Greco guys. Furthermore, if they are taken down they actually train getting back to the feet which is a massive blind spot in Judo
in street fight shirt will get ripped unless its a coat. Winter time judo is very effective. Summertime wrestling maybe . Bend over to pick up , stand & slam. Both are very effective though .
But I have a special request, maybe with neil adams helping you lol, could you do a video of the top 5 or 10 judokas in each Europe countries of all time ? ....
my point is if you are looking at judo from only a Japanese perspective which is not the only way because in wrestling you take down someone then pin them, in judo you take someone down and pin them right the difference is judo is obviously the some submissions but overall the standup is wrestling and ground game modern jiu-jitsu, I understand when teaching there takedowns in judo the Japanese are very technical and precise more then Greco, Freestyle, Folkstyle & Sambo but takedowns ARE WRESTLING DOWNS my freind.
I’ve seen some high level Wrestlers get straight up THROWN by Judokas in MMA so 🤷🏼♂️ Karo Parisyan from back around the TUF1 era .... that guy was damn good. That’s one example of many. Look at the throws he did to Josh Burkman. Josh wasn’t like a Kurt Angle, John Smith level Wrestler, but he was probably in the top 8%-10% in the US at that time. And Karo straight up RAGDOLLED Burkman up one side and down the other. Im that thinking Burkmans Teebus probably shrunk a couple of inches during that ordeal he was forced to endure.
I’d be happy enough if they bring back leg grab throws off of upper body throws for combination like before they got rid of them completely. That was a happy medium if they want to keep the tachiwaza more judo-y, but preserve the art in sport.
Greco was there before freestyle and judo, Greco Roman wrestling has a upright posture with no LEG GRABS, oh yeah by the way it was the first kind of wrestling right ?
Looking at physics percpective, you’re able to maintain better balance fighting upright. Even when leg grabs were allowed in judo, japanese athletes always had ghe straight posture and dominated the world as they still do :) 🇯🇵
In the UFC, shootings and snatches are more used bc of USA influence, look at ONE for example. And 2, principally bc you cant hit the nape while on grappling nor kick or knee ppl which have their hand on the ground. I doubt ppl would be going so much to the ankle, if we could pounce at the nape :)
You're gonna be completely lost on the ground unless you do sambo, bjj or something else that focuses on submissions anyways. If anything I see wrestlers fight more on the ground.
Dude, depending in the rule of the match, judo rule a judoka wins. wrestling rule, the wrestler wins. street fight, there is no rule, it can go both ways.
Cuando yo hacía judo se podían agarrar las piernas y era algo que yo aprovechaba bastante. En mi opinión este cambio de reglas aleja aún más al judo de la lucha real y me parece un error
Pure judo vs pure wrestling depends if it’s gi or no gi but honestly just learn both you don’t have to compete in both but at least acknowledge moves and the mindset for both and focus less in judo vs bjj vs wrestling and more on grappling ur a grappler you’ll use anything grappling related you will use wrestling and judo but if the rules favor judo use judo then if it favors wrestling use wrestling if it favors none use both ur a grappler be happy live happy think positive. Edit: if u learn both u can use judo posture and use wrestling takedown defense or use wrestling posture and use judo takedown defense this the type of thing Gordon and a lot of high level grapplers try to explain just learn to grapple in any rule scenario to improve
There’s no one in the world who will not progress and absolutely love cross training bjj, judo and wrestling. Ask 3 of those experts how to hip toss and get ready for three answers that are awesome and accurate. Apply the one you can do well to your rules and enjoy.
I am a new subscriber and new to Judo. I have wrestled both freestyle and Greco-Roman. I am wondering how effective would the Russian tie or the 2 on 1 in Judo and can you break the collar grip in judo using a traditional 2 on 1 maneuver like in wrestling where you twist and peel the collar tie grip? Thanks
You did not answer the question! If we have two identical clones, 1 Wrestler 1 Judoka, with no Gi the Wrestler wins 10/10 times, with Gi the Judoka wins 10/10 times
mma is the sport where different disciplines compete under minimal rules. you can't just take another sport and say "yeah but what if wrestlers were allowed to shoot a single leg takedown? HA!" .......like obviously Novak Djokovic would have a really hard time winning in tennis if Jon Jones was allowed to poke him in the eye, but that's not what he's training for. if that was part of tennis, then he would train differently to deal with it.
Wrestling is probably the most dominant art in the world of grappling. But wrestling requires a lot of strength and cardio. If you lose that strength and cardio you lose your grappling dominance.
Judo, by removing the two highest probability takedowns in MMA (the closest thing to a real fight) : the double an single leg takedowns, literally castrated itself, so yes, while judo is really good for self defense, it completely killed itself by removing the best takedowns available.
Single leg and double legs are not the best takedowns available. It’s all context sensitive, double legs and single legs are just more common with American style of wrestling, and mma is mostly American. Look at someone like Islam
@@pullupenthusiast3800 Double and single leg takedowns are statistically the most common takedowns since the dawn of MMA, they are the ones that work most, Islam Khabib and all the dagestanis and chechen fighter are experts in them and that's why they are champions in MMA and that's also why pure judokas that transitionned to MMA aren't as good and few.
@@cslife6666 did you not read what I said? They are the most common because it’s an American organization and Americans love that takedown, Islam and khabib use more judo than wrestling. Neither of them have ever competed in wrestling. Islam hits high percentage uchi matas harai goshis up against the cage. Khabib likes ouchi gari and landed osoto gari on RDA. They are both judo black belts. To say one takedown is the best takedown is foolish
@@pullupenthusiast3800 That argument doesn't hold because it's the same statistics in non american organization, on top of that, fighters from all other the world now compete in the UFC and represent a major part of it, so how does your argument makes sense ? Khabib and Islam can hit Judo takedowns BECAUSE they have high level wrestling offense and defense, otherwise, they would not be able to, they didn't compete in wrestling yet both sambo AND combat sambo allows for both double and single leg takedowns. They are the most important because without the ability to use and defense against them, all judo abilities are really hard to implement in a fight against a skilled fighter who knows how to use them.
Oh man, if only judo brought back the leg grabs and some other banned throws. It's so sad to see judo become a sport and less of a martial art fight for a fight. Same thing happened to Taekwondo and karate. Judo needs to return to it's roots.
Judo player against a wrestler has to keep a low stance and utilize the under hook to level the wrestler up to use judo. I am a judo player and have the highest respect for wrestlers.
Wrestling against a skilled Judo player reveals ALL of the limitations found in wrestling, just like Jiu Jitsu reveals all the limitations in Judo and how Muay Thai reveals all the limitation in Tae Kwon Do.
I always joke with some of the Judo guys that I play with the Wrestling's defense against 90% of judo techniques is just to be mostly naked and kinda sweaty.
Los judokas son fáciles de vencer una vez te enfrentas a uno los digo como alguien que ha enfrentado a esos tipos en varias ocasiones, aunque irónicamente terminaron moldeando mi estilo de lucha pues pase de hacer uso total de lucha grecorromana a una especie de híbrido entre lucha libre y greco, pues lucho en greco y defiendo al modo de los librista, pues me acostumbré a tratar de evitar los barridos que suelen hacer los judokas, pero diré que encontré similitudes entre ambos deportes, pues el Judo es como lucha grecorromana pero centrado en sujetar la ropa siendo la diferencia que en licha derribado y en judo arrojas osea en licha como que lo redirija al suelo, pero en judo veo que literal es como si te arrancarán del suelo.
Yes, completely helpless if you take off the gi and roll no-gi. Judo doesn't stand a chance. Have seen it myself when top performers from wrestling sparred against judokas. I almost felt sorry for them. A very strong wrestler who gets very good at submissions and digs into it becomes very hard to beat. Many bjj guys have been run over. It is only the absolute bjj elite like Marcelo Garcia and Roger Gracie who show bjj effectiveness against strong wrestlers. But strength, strong muscles and well rounded in submissions and defense against it is hard to beat.
i have a question, i saw old videos of judokas tournaments and they still had upright posture but back then leg grabs were still in can u explain why is that? thank you chadi.
He already explained that .because if you didn't stand upright you will give your opponent especially if he is a good judoka more chance to throw you and bring your head done while rotating because you are bent over
Because people make a giant stink of leg grabs without understanding the basics of jacket wrestling. Leg attacks are easy to do in No-gi specifically because everything is so slippery. Where the lapel and sleeve control is something you can hold for an entire Judo match, overhooks and collar ties are extremely transient. If your gi is grabbed, its super hard to get down for a takedown- hell you can see this in Sambo too, they don't have much leg grabbing despite the rules allowing it. Leg grabs are almost like a no-gi unique fighting style lol.
The Shohei Ono video:
ruclips.net/video/3UDd6ftw2JA/видео.htmlsi=LJ2Vfisi_g5FLjc1
So exactly how is wrestling superior to judo?You never really explained it to me
Cross trained in Judo and Wrestling Judo helped massively in Wrestling. I started Judo because I noticed all the best wrestlers in highschool were also very good Judokas the two Judokas in my highschool were 3rd in wrestling In the state wrestling tournament and the female was first and they were siblings
Sports sambo too very good to crosstrain with wrestling , because technically sports sambo is almost the same stuff that judo was before reforms . Vlad Koulikov proves that
Overrated might be the wrong word. I'd say "Hyper-popular" in the global sports community since it is the most practiced style of grappling/wrestling, followed by Freestyle.
Khabib Nurmagomagodev(ufc) once said that judo was more superior to wrestling; we can trust him on that since he started as a wrestler
@@francismurage895 He said that regarding the 'merit' of the gold medal for judo vs. wrestling
I trained wrestling to help my judo. One of my teammates was a junior (under 20 years old) national champion in judo and collegiate national champion in wrestling in the same year. A lot fo my judo teammates were great high school wrestlers and many of them wrestled in college.
As a wrestler, the judo stance is absolutely brilliant on hard surfaces, also for efficiency and counter throws
It's good, once you clinch since a double and single would be awkward or lost of opportunity when the distance has been closed. Ive seen Judo black belts that had Wrestled in high school/ College; dominate other Judo black belts.
I'm a judo player... because wrestling wasn't a thing in my area when I was younger. Love coming up against wrestlers because I don't know what I'm gonna get. So much to learn from each, it's just all grappling
@@beingmediocre the picture when you click the video makes me laugh
Judo does not "shoot" for legs, What Judo does is called a "snatch" in wrestling terminology "shooting" is when you put your knee down and commit to the step through!
True that!
Correct.
Wrestling teaches you how to knee walk. Judo doesn't.
However, Aikido teaches knee walking. Weird right?
@@slothmaster101 WOAH 🤔💥
@@slothmaster101 exactly lol
One of the greatest quotes I heard was from Satoshi Ishii. I think it was in a Donmai video. He said the rule change to remove leg grabs was absolutely BS because wrestlers had all the opportunities in the world up until that point to win plenty of world judo titles and Olympic medals. But you know what happened? The judokas won most of the time.
100%
For some reason people still think wrestlers easily beat judokas
Jigoro Kano was teaching the upright fighting stance because when someone uses the bent over wrestling stance, is susceptible to atemi waza, at any moment.We must remember that the Judo in the old days was more towards self defense having in mind that in a street scenario, atemi waza is a part of a fight. Thank you.
I agree with you that one should be mindful of strikes when thinking about their stance. But wouldn’t that be the same as saying an upright stance opens one up to lower body attacks? In my opinion, the reason judokas can use the upright stance is because of control from the gi. Changing levels becomes a lot more challenging if you’re having to grip and hand fight.
Edit: Just saw where Chadi mentioned this towards the end of the video.
But you can see that freestyle wrestling still works in mma or street as well
What is atemi waza?
@@marcosgarcia8544 Striking techniques.
Es mas facil defenderse o repeler un ataque si estas erguido q si permaneces en una postura defensiva con tu centro de gravedad bajo, hay q recordar q ono no es muy alto por eso se siente mas comodo erguido
I think an interesting follow up video to this would be one exploring the stances used in various jacket/clothing styles of European wrestling, especially any that allow leg grabs.
Thanks Chadi. You actually remind me my randori with a Black Belt two weeks ago. I'm 36 a green belt and he is at his 20s and a Black belt. He was trying to throw me several times but everytime I use my hip defense to nullify his attack. It bought me some time to counter.
That’s awesome
Do people not know that wrestlers do more than just shoot double legs?
I wrestled mostly upper body, doing an occasional firemans or single leg, never did double legs but I could stop doubles.
I worked out with Judo guys and it was even matches since we both did throws that were different.
Not to mention Greco Roman wrestling is ONLY upper body attacks
Any tips on implimenting more upperbody attacks I seem to struggle with them more compared to your usual single or double legs
How do you set them up from hand fighting?
@@neowneow13 - I find the big key to upperbody is moving forward. You don't play paddy cake with hands, you close in.
If you are used to shooting you like that distance and getting close is going to make you uncomfortable. I have found there are three types of people with take downs. Those that throw, those that shoot and those that sweep/trip. Everyone gets good at one, some are good at two; I've never meet someone that is good at all three.
@@SwordFighterPKNyou are exactly right brother,I suck at shooting but am a king at throws and quite good at sweeping,I'm a judoka so anything shooting I am not always to confident
@@neowneow13 I can tell you I use a lot of arm drags and Russian arm ties which leads to a lot of upper body, under hooks, wizzers, body locks goose-neck clinches, etc...come off of arm attacks.
Wrestlers are extremely explosive, and Judoka's are freak chimp strong
The sprawl is a great defense with leg takedowns(single and double).
The wrestling stance of bending over is only done in transition in street fights. For example when in a fight you clinch you may go into this stance briefly.
Last week I watched the European Championship, and most Judokas fight bent over, using techniques like Pasatka (variant of Kata-guruma). The point is simple, bring back the old Judo, just stick to proper judging, "passive attack is punishment", we all know what negative Judo is, and that's it.
I have run into a few wrestlers who have told stories about encountering judoka and being helpless against them. These were guys who wrestled at state championship levels in the big wrestling states. In each case, the judoka was older and more experienced, but in each case the wrestlers just blown away by the experience.
At the 2:20 mark that hip checking is found in many classical styles of yawara or jujutsu, and it is usually a deeper stance that locks the opponent's knees, involves striking to finish a throw and the possibility to severely damage the knee or back of the opponent (similar but not exactly why kane basame is considered so dangerous, imagine it in armor).
There is a jujutsu school that specialized in the acrobatic escapes you see in the MMA footage. I suspect more than one.
All of this is based off of stance work that is upright, with the hips under you in a particular way and a particular sequencing of body action, and it all was influenced by the wearing of armor. This is very related to how Mizune did what he did and old Judo, imo. This is why the belt grabbing was important in judo, you can't grab the armor, but you could grab the obi that secured the tachi, same with Sumo, and an upright stance was necessary. The wearing of swords also influenced yawara techniques.
These classical methods are easy to talk about, not easy to do, and when you meet someone who can, it is a whole new experience. That's why there are so few who can do it. it is much more straight forward to be strong and fast, but you can only be so strong and fast. The advent of competitive Judo changed the arts into something different, and that is fine. It's its own animal. Some in each generation "rediscover" some of the classical principles and they usually excel as a result. It can be a secret sauce.
The upright posture of Judo is absolutely genius... that coupled with the rice Bale throw makes wrestling a different game. The upright posture also converts to mixed martial arts much better than the bent over stance of other Combat Sports. I taught my high school wrestlers to stand up more straight and when someone tried to shoot for their legs hit them with a rice Bale throw or use your increased drop momentum to sprawl them flat. If you drop from a deeply squatted stance you don't have that much drop pressure but if you drop from nearly standing your weight hits much harder smashing their leg attack with a heavier Force!
I’m someone who wrestled through highschool to D3 in college from the 189 LBS through Heavyweight. It’s funny because my coaches had the top 3 weight classes focus on upper body techniques for example my bread and butter was a headlock takedown into a reverse headlock takedown. I will say the Tawara Gaeshi Chadi showed is a move I’ve naturally come to use as a shoot defense except I try to turn all the way through and through in the legs
@@marquisejoubert6129 yes I couldn't agree more here's my version
ruclips.net/video/ClKMJv7vJU8/видео.htmlsi=RWkwxo9Fzj7k_h71
hmm i'm not sure if i'm getting your take on that correctly. Let me sum it up. So, you're saying you learn your guys in wrestling the upright stance, since it transists better into mma and from there you can use your body weight and gravitation better to both defending incomming moves with like a full body weight sprawl or countering a incomming move with stuff like a rice bale throw, right?
Then my question would be, how much utility does a rice bale throw bing to the table especially considering the setting of mma, since you will both be landing flat and noone of both fighters will have a dominant position for follow ups like GroundNPound or submissions? (considering you're not doing the single leg counter where you fully roll with your partner into mount, because they you'd have this advantageous position im talking about)...Care to elaborate?
@@janosch7210 as usual the "forms" style is practically worthless
ruclips.net/video/ClKMJv7vJU8/видео.htmlsi=biPl0hpZCgx4X4o0
@@janosch7210 I think the greatest utility comes from the original move pile-driving the head into the ground which obviously wouldn't be legal in sport which is another example of how sportification ruins martial arts.
Not standing upright in wrestling is not only about protecting the legs as it's also done in greco roman wrestling. This is because if one is upright and the other is slightly crouched, then all that is needed is to grab the upright one and straighten up to remove contact from the ground making throwing pretty easy.
The jacket does change that, but that is also why wrestling have an advantage when there is no jacket.
In My first wrestling tournament a coach from.another team (that i had never met) came to me at half and asked if i did judo. I was puzzled and said yes. He replied with STOP DOING JUDO. He then gave me a quick recap on the wrestling stance and i went back at it. Once i got into wrestling a bit more i did pretty good with some big throws. Did well with ashiwaza as well. Love both sports.
As someone who has done both for over 15 years, I consider judo one of a very few styles that can rival it when it comes to takedowns, I also consider it an awesome art to cross train wrestling with, and if you do Greco Roman wrestling you will love and excel at judo.
From experience, Judo and wrestling are extremely complimentary. From gi to no gi, shots to throws, blocks to leg sweeps, they are good for each other.
I think if you combine, wrestling with judo than you become a ultimate grappler. Listen wrestling = strength and explosion and stamina . While judo = strength and endurance but wrestling too.
Yes indeed! But that's if you practice Judo as a full art!
Because many schools barely do any Ne Waza which is very important
If you just want strength and endurance, save your money and just exercise by yourself.
Judo is very explosive as well
Excellent as always
OK I don’t know whether the headline on this video is Just some kind of Clickbait.
But watching the video I do very much agree with everything that you said. Being able to check someone with your hips and your legs can be huge both in judo and in wrestling. Wrestling does take it one step further with sprawling because more often than not unless you’re doing Greco-Roman wrestling someone is going to shoot on you.
But going back to the headline is judo defenseless against wrestling? Absolutely not. You just have to be able to modify your training in order to be prepared for those situation’s. Learning how to sprawl should be essential learning for most grappling martial arts whether you use it all the time or not. It’s a great way To train your body to throw those hips forward.
Except judo keep losing to, at least, the catch wrestlers. From the days of Ad Santel to the first Quintet
@@tichtran664 Submission grappling is a different beast.
@@tichtran664 Submission grappling is a different beast. Regular wrestlers lose there too. Its a BJJ/Catch Wrestling/Submission Wrestling fest.
You never see Sambo amount to much in it either, yet they don't get shit. Takedown focused arts are just not good in submission rules.
A friend of mine I trained with was a 3 times national Jr. wrestling champion and a high school state wrestling champion. He wrestled standing straight up.
what? i need to see it to believe it. you're talking folkstyle?
Very insightful video. Thank you!
Chadi,, let’s do more in regards to these types of things please.
You can have a look on Shuai Jiao matches. Leg grapping is allowed, still a very upright position is usually maintained.
Check out GSP vs Karo fight.
Be interesting to see the comparison with Greco Roman wrestling. Probably way more similar to judo defenses.
GR and Judo do not have much in common. You got a lot more you can do with Judo, so a Judoka wins more than not.
There is no universe that a judoka beats a Greco Roman wrestler in no-gi.
With cloths on or a GI, shooting on legs is much more difficult. It is a lot easy to control a person and defend leg shots when grabbing their jacket or shirt. That’s why Judo practice is better for self defense than wretched. Especially with chokes and arm bars.
People typically run around in pyjamas?
@@MrCmon113 Peopld don't typically run around in skin tight rash guards, mankinis or swimming trunks either. We usually wear shirts.
You can grab a shirt and throw with it.
In my opinion leg grabs should be allowed but with the rule that you should not knee drop to go for it. Makes it also applicable to self defense/combat when there is hard surface, what do you think @chadi?
I like the idea!
Wrestler are explosieve, and they have stamina and power.. judokas are strong too
Unfortunately unless the wrestler has a Gi top on, we MAY have a “hard time” to grab them.
Yes, the clench but then it’s no gi and (IMO) no gi is “wrestling”
Fk I love this sport 🤩
Depends because there are many hybrid styles of judo mixed with wrestling and bjj. In fact, david Camarillo teaches a variation of it.
That's irrelevant to the sports themselves. It's irrelevant to your decision, as an adult, of what you should learm.
LOL@@MrCmon113
Здравствуйте уважаемый Чади, смотрю ваши видео. Сегодня посмотрел это видео, полностью с вами согласен. Вы очень правильно всё объяснили. Полностью вас поддерживаю. Раньше занимался дзюдо, хорошая вещь, но захваты за ноги и блокировка ног руками отсутствует. В этом видео вв очень грамотно разобрали защиту. Продолжайте пожалуйста делать такие видео, лично я,их с удовольствием смотрю)))
The major difference is that the control of the gi is really difficult for someone to shoot for the legs.
Yes, no-Gi judo practitioner vs freestyle wrestler with similar experience - judo would lose dominance. The only problem with wrestling is no training on submitting an opponent. Wrestling + BJJ is the golden combo for no striking fighting ❤
No submission in wrestling except for catch wrestling.
William Fairbairn, a British policeman in Shanghai who trained WW2 soldiers in hand to hand combat, was originally a wrestler and then became obsessed with judo as it was far more practical for his job. I thought this was odd as you constantly hear wrestling is superior, but if people are fully clothed, usually wearing jackets in most countries then judo would be far more effective when out in public.
Keyvwords:
If
And
Fully clothed.
Family Guy and deaf naked guy comes to mind.
Hahha
As someone who practiced both Judo and wrestling I assure you neither is better than the other.
If knees and kicks to the face were allowed would wrestlers and BJJ guys bend over? I think Judo and Greco stances lend themselves to MMA and all the elements of wrestling and BJJ follow after at least some contact is made.
You level change the moment you start wrestling anyways.
But yeah I guess if you can't do any mma training, it's probably good to wrestle from upright position a but as well.
Wrestlers don't just lean over because of a lack of grips (though that may be part of it), it's because an important part of shooting in on a takedown is the "level change" where you drop down to breach the opponent's defense. If your defense is based low, the opponent's level change will have to be more exaggerated, and if you decide to shoot, you're already half way there
So, leg grabs were removed from Olympic judo, because when the 2012 Olympic games in London were approaching, there was a real threat that judo was going to be removed from the Olympics, because the question was asked "What's the difference between judo and wrestling, and why do we need both?" so the International Judo Federation (IJF) changed judo's rules, to try and differentiate it from wrestling, so that judo could stay in the Olympics. One of those rules was that leg grabs were removed, and as such, techniques involving leg grabs, such as Sakui Nage (Scooping Throw), Morote Gari (Two Hand Reap) and the traditional Kata Guruma (Shoulder Wheel) could no longer be used.
I wouldn't say judo is "helpless" against wrestling, I think it depends on the context.
For example, if a wrestler enters a judo competition and uses only their wrestling, they may not do very well... likewise, if a judoka (judo practitioner) enters a wrestling competition and attempts to only use their judo, the judoka will probably not do very well, either.
On a personal level, in 2010 when I was a green belt in judo, I entered a competition interstate for judo, competing in the senior men's -100kg division. As there weren't enough competitors in my weight class, we were shifted up to the +100kg open division. One of our opponents was a yellow belt in judo, brand new to judo, but he was a national champion at Greco Roman wrestling.
When he and I competed against one another, I won the match, but he won "the fight" - he was not only heavier and stronger than me, but I had never competed against a wrestler before, so it was a rough-as-guts experience for me... in fairness, if this person had more experience in judo, as well as a better understanding of judo's rules, I believe he would have beat me in the match, as well.
The ijf should have a no gi with leg grabs category, it would be wild. And back to judo's jujutsu roots. But jiujitsu is taking the market
That's why banning leg grabs castrated judo. The sport has so many ways to deal with that but instead they decided to ban it and now no one remembers how to.
Spot on. I didn’t like the change
Yeah, leg grabs are the most intuitive for beginners and the highest percentage in mma.
Chadi you answered the questions perfectly.
thats kind of like saying "the tradiotional wrestling stance is bad against muay thai because you could just knee him to the face" OBVIOUSLY if different rules exist the stance changes
The traditional upright stance in judo is because the grappling and throwing of old KoRyu JuJutsu was developed for combat use where you would end up in a clinch because you crashed into each other while fighting with swords, look at Kendo and how often they end up in close quarters.
Yes, judoka would still adopt an upright posture. Leg grabs used to be allowed - there is throw called morote gari in the shimesho no waza. As for pushing your hips forward, that is something we practiced a lot in judo. Utsuri goshi is a technique that when done as a counter uses that hip defense. You use a similar motion when you sprawl in wrestling to defend a shot. You do not pull your hips back, you push your hips forward and throw your legs back and drop your center of gravity to the floor. Just as you mention a sprawl is really just the hop defense you learn in judo.
Also, the bent over stance wrestlers take is not very practicle in a self-defense situation. You very rarely see mma fighters adopt that stance because you are open to knee strikes to your face or elbow strikes to the top and back of your head and your back. It is also not a very good stance to throw strikes from. The judo posture is a better self defense posture.
Nice job chetti
Judo Wrestling and Combat Jui Jitsu should be formed into 1 art
I’ve done both. Wrestling has helped me at 1.5 years doing judo beat 3rd and 5th Dan judokas
How many finishing moves do wrestlers know?
Good explanations. And as usual, screw the ijf.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't having a base in Greco roman Wrestling be more beneficial when transferring into Judo, than it would be having a freestyle/folkstyle base?
Greco roman doesn’t have any leg attacks, and their grips are different because they have to basically brute force most of their techniques
3:01 I did as you said and put my hand on my cats stomach. Now it is purring and jumped onto my lap. Does that happen in judo as well?
"judo is not a wrestling"
No dude , judo is actually a Japanese wrestling
It’s better than that!
Judo is a form of Jacket Wrestling (like Shuai Jiao, Irish Collar and Elbow, etc) and is in fact the most popular jacket wrestling style
@@k9m42 no .just another overrated style of jacket wrestling. All wrestling styles is VERY similiar , even gi and noGi
Can’t see a wrestler wanting to break your arms or strangle you out judo is more technical because of the amount of throws and counters available because of the use of a gi
Thank you 👍👏
柔道はフランスで最も普及しています。特に女性に護身術として、大変多く普及していると聞きます。衣服を掴まれる恐怖を柔道は解消してくれるのでしょう。どの格闘技が優れているのでは無く、それぞれの格闘技に優れた技術が有り、それを取り入れている事が最も重要な事で現実にそうなっているのが、UFCで有り、全世界の警察機構、市民レベル、主婦、女性の護身術に至るまで浸透していると思います。
When I did judo leg grabbing was part of it, I think it's absurd not to have it anymore and was done for wrong reasons.
The reason is because of greed. I cross train judo and oly weightlifting. It's the IOC destroying both. Wrestling too. All destroyed by the Olympic IOC.
They removed leg grabs because the IOC didn't want judo to be too similar to wrestling because they wanted variety.
WIth Olympic weightlifting, the IOC forced the IWF to change the weight classes 4 times in 3 years, that destroyed a lot of top competitors' careers.
With Wrestling, the IOC straight up wanted to remove it from the olympics so they could make more money with events like 3v3 basketball or breakdancing.
F**k the IOC
When judo allowed leg grabbing techniques the stance was more bent over, hips back, like wrestlers. You can look up the old videos.
In mma, you can see judoka vs wrestlers. Look at Miesha Tate attempting a double leg vs Ronda Rousey who countered it with a harai goshi. Look at Khabib Nurmagomedov who used judo moves vs Rafael Dos Anjos and Edson Barboza in the clinch.
I think a problem that judo faces against a true wrestling shot is not understanding how to stop the drive off a shot. Much like how judo needs an off balancing, wrestling has the same requirement. The advantage wrestling has over judo is the ability to sprint through an opponent. This is the same fantasy that BJJ has with defending against a takedown. They imagine they can "just guillotine" the way that judo thinks they can "just stop or just throw" a wrestler if you aren't getting that feeling of what it is like to defend/counter this technique then it is all theory. Wrestling however does have big throws and footsweeps albeit without a jacket. But that is just one aspect they need to adapt to where as not defending shots is a whole set of problems for judo to adapt/solve.
Jigoro Kano's original system was great, Judo is wonderful when the art is practiced fully, newaza and all the throws (none of that BS from IFJ or the Olympics). I dare say it was one of the most complete martial arts, then all these stupid rules neutered the art and now wrestling and jiu jitsu filled in the niche..
Depends on your approach to Judo.
I took adult Judo classes and approach was to learn techniques but apply them to self defense.
Sports Judo approach is intended to win matches under rules set by governing organization.
IMO, Judo always has the advantage in modern mma since the meta now is always going for the clinch.
Well I would say that if you only train either folkstyle or freestyle there could be an advantage for judo. But Greco Roman wrestling definitely is at least equal to if not slightly superior to judo for MMA.
@@1massboy French wrestling (Greco-Roman) doesn't have ashi waza , hadaka jime nor submissions.
@@1massboy i personally think the grapplers from folk style are better
@@1massboyI mean the Folkstyle guys do really well though. They are actually good at holding guys down unlike freestyle and Greco guys. Furthermore, if they are taken down they actually train getting back to the feet which is a massive blind spot in Judo
@@badart3204Folkstyle control and pressure is good. I'm able to use some of mine in BJJ class
in street fight shirt will get ripped unless its a coat. Winter time judo is very effective. Summertime wrestling maybe . Bend over to pick up , stand & slam. Both are very effective though .
In summer time a judoka just going to switch to overhooks underkooks and head locks
But I have a special request, maybe with neil adams helping you lol, could you do a video of the top 5 or 10 judokas in each Europe countries of all time ? ....
my point is if you are looking at judo from only a Japanese perspective which is not the only way because in wrestling you take down someone then pin them, in judo you take someone down and pin them right the difference is judo is obviously the some submissions but overall the standup is wrestling and ground game modern jiu-jitsu, I understand when teaching there takedowns in judo the Japanese are very technical and precise more then Greco, Freestyle, Folkstyle & Sambo but takedowns ARE WRESTLING DOWNS my freind.
I want to start wrestling or judo. Im almost 30. Which one is easier on the body? Where am I going to get less likely Injured?
I’ve seen some high level Wrestlers get straight up THROWN by Judokas in MMA so 🤷🏼♂️
Karo Parisyan from back around the TUF1 era .... that guy was damn good. That’s one example of many.
Look at the throws he did to Josh Burkman. Josh wasn’t like a Kurt Angle, John Smith level Wrestler, but he was probably in the top 8%-10% in the US at that time. And Karo straight up RAGDOLLED Burkman up one side and down the other. Im that thinking Burkmans Teebus probably shrunk a couple of inches during that ordeal he was forced to endure.
I’d be happy enough if they bring back leg grab throws off of upper body throws for combination like before they got rid of them completely.
That was a happy medium if they want to keep the tachiwaza more judo-y, but preserve the art in sport.
Can this work as counter to Ko-Uchi Gari ? or even Ouchi Gari ???
I don’t think so, you need to be upright when performing O uchi and Ko uchi, this work for bent opponents
Greco was there before freestyle and judo, Greco Roman wrestling has a upright posture with no LEG GRABS, oh yeah by the way it was the first kind of wrestling right ?
No it's was not first kind of wrestling. The origin of wrestling is not from a single country. Many ancient civilization had wrestling
Greco roman was invented by top hat wearing frenchmen. They named it that for marketability.
Looking at physics percpective, you’re able to maintain better balance fighting upright. Even when leg grabs were allowed in judo, japanese athletes always had ghe straight posture and dominated the world as they still do :) 🇯🇵
My experience is that judo beats wrestling except against a taller opponent you can’t clinch and you have to grab the legs
I would argue its easier to flow between striking and Judo, than striking and wrestling. Thats the main appeal for me
In the UFC, shootings and snatches are more used bc of USA influence, look at ONE for example. And 2, principally bc you cant hit the nape while on grappling nor kick or knee ppl which have their hand on the ground.
I doubt ppl would be going so much to the ankle, if we could pounce at the nape :)
Wrestler advantage standing, but when they hit the ground, it's all Judoka.
I gotta disagree
Catch Wrestler are good in ground. Even many judokas and BJJ practitioner have difficult time when play Ground game against catch wrestler.
You're gonna be completely lost on the ground unless you do sambo, bjj or something else that focuses on submissions anyways.
If anything I see wrestlers fight more on the ground.
Dude, depending in the rule of the match, judo rule a judoka wins.
wrestling rule, the wrestler wins.
street fight, there is no rule, it can go both ways.
Cuando yo hacía judo se podían agarrar las piernas y era algo que yo aprovechaba bastante. En mi opinión este cambio de reglas aleja aún más al judo de la lucha real y me parece un error
Wrestler were helpless on the mat. I would get pinned, but years of training taught wrestler to keep their heads up. This allowed me to choke them.
Pure judo vs pure wrestling depends if it’s gi or no gi but honestly just learn both you don’t have to compete in both but at least acknowledge moves and the mindset for both and focus less in judo vs bjj vs wrestling and more on grappling ur a grappler you’ll use anything grappling related you will use wrestling and judo but if the rules favor judo use judo then if it favors wrestling use wrestling if it favors none use both ur a grappler be happy live happy think positive.
Edit: if u learn both u can use judo posture and use wrestling takedown defense or use wrestling posture and use judo takedown defense this the type of thing Gordon and a lot of high level grapplers try to explain just learn to grapple in any rule scenario to improve
There’s no one in the world who will not progress and absolutely love cross training bjj, judo and wrestling. Ask 3 of those experts how to hip toss and get ready for three answers that are awesome and accurate. Apply the one you can do well to your rules and enjoy.
I am a new subscriber and new to Judo. I have wrestled both freestyle and Greco-Roman. I am wondering how effective would the Russian tie or the 2 on 1 in Judo and can you break the collar grip in judo using a traditional 2 on 1 maneuver like in wrestling where you twist and peel the collar tie grip? Thanks
You did not answer the question!
If we have two identical clones, 1 Wrestler 1 Judoka, with no Gi the Wrestler wins 10/10 times, with Gi the Judoka wins 10/10 times
mma is the sport where different disciplines compete under minimal rules. you can't just take another sport and say "yeah but what if wrestlers were allowed to shoot a single leg takedown? HA!" .......like obviously Novak Djokovic would have a really hard time winning in tennis if Jon Jones was allowed to poke him in the eye, but that's not what he's training for. if that was part of tennis, then he would train differently to deal with it.
Me that personnaly use judo in Bjj im fine you just have to crontrol the distance i dont really recomend it for shorter people like me 😅
Wrestling is probably the most dominant art in the world of grappling. But wrestling requires a lot of strength and cardio. If you lose that strength and cardio you lose your grappling dominance.
If you mean grappling to a pin then yes, if you mean submission grappling then obviously not.
Judo, by removing the two highest probability takedowns in MMA (the closest thing to a real fight) : the double an single leg takedowns, literally castrated itself, so yes, while judo is really good for self defense, it completely killed itself by removing the best takedowns available.
Quais quedas?
Single leg and double legs are not the best takedowns available. It’s all context sensitive, double legs and single legs are just more common with American style of wrestling, and mma is mostly American. Look at someone like Islam
@@pullupenthusiast3800 Double and single leg takedowns are statistically the most common takedowns since the dawn of MMA, they are the ones that work most, Islam Khabib and all the dagestanis and chechen fighter are experts in them and that's why they are champions in MMA and that's also why pure judokas that transitionned to MMA aren't as good and few.
@@cslife6666 did you not read what I said? They are the most common because it’s an American organization and Americans love that takedown, Islam and khabib use more judo than wrestling. Neither of them have ever competed in wrestling. Islam hits high percentage uchi matas harai goshis up against the cage. Khabib likes ouchi gari and landed osoto gari on RDA. They are both judo black belts. To say one takedown is the best takedown is foolish
@@pullupenthusiast3800 That argument doesn't hold because it's the same statistics in non american organization, on top of that, fighters from all other the world now compete in the UFC and represent a major part of it, so how does your argument makes sense ?
Khabib and Islam can hit Judo takedowns BECAUSE they have high level wrestling offense and defense, otherwise, they would not be able to, they didn't compete in wrestling yet both sambo AND combat sambo allows for both double and single leg takedowns.
They are the most important because without the ability to use and defense against them, all judo abilities are really hard to implement in a fight against a skilled fighter who knows how to use them.
Jigotai. It is defensive and slows down attack sequences. Best judokas are flexible going between all stances.
Oh man, if only judo brought back the leg grabs and some other banned throws. It's so sad to see judo become a sport and less of a martial art fight for a fight. Same thing happened to Taekwondo and karate. Judo needs to return to it's roots.
I would say that the Georgians gave a big warning to those who use a hunched over posture.
2025 leg grabs will be allowed
Judo player against a wrestler has to keep a low stance and utilize the under hook to level the wrestler up to use judo. I am a judo player and have the highest respect for wrestlers.
Wrestling against a skilled Judo player reveals ALL of the limitations found in wrestling, just like Jiu Jitsu reveals all the limitations in Judo and how Muay Thai reveals all the limitation in Tae Kwon Do.
Chadi even though I kinda disagree with you this video I still love all your videos...
Ce n'est pas la méthode qui fait l'efficacité mais le pratiquant
I always joke with some of the Judo guys that I play with the Wrestling's defense against 90% of judo techniques is just to be mostly naked and kinda sweaty.
Seems like the your answer is Yes
Los judokas son fáciles de vencer una vez te enfrentas a uno los digo como alguien que ha enfrentado a esos tipos en varias ocasiones, aunque irónicamente terminaron moldeando mi estilo de lucha pues pase de hacer uso total de lucha grecorromana a una especie de híbrido entre lucha libre y greco, pues lucho en greco y defiendo al modo de los librista, pues me acostumbré a tratar de evitar los barridos que suelen hacer los judokas, pero diré que encontré similitudes entre ambos deportes, pues el Judo es como lucha grecorromana pero centrado en sujetar la ropa siendo la diferencia que en licha derribado y en judo arrojas osea en licha como que lo redirija al suelo, pero en judo veo que literal es como si te arrancarán del suelo.
Like France top 10 in order, England, Russia, Poland and etc, countries with a small judo pool would get a 1-5 list lol
Aleksandr Karelin would like a word
Yes, completely helpless if you take off the gi and roll no-gi. Judo doesn't stand a chance. Have seen it myself when top performers from wrestling sparred against judokas. I almost felt sorry for them. A very strong wrestler who gets very good at submissions and digs into it becomes very hard to beat. Many bjj guys have been run over. It is only the absolute bjj elite like Marcelo Garcia and Roger Gracie who show bjj effectiveness against strong wrestlers. But strength, strong muscles and well rounded in submissions and defense against it is hard to beat.
😂 you've got jokes
I've seen judoka wearing gi do well against wrestlers with no gi. course that's anecdotal, cant speak to averages
i have a question, i saw old videos of judokas tournaments and they still had upright posture but back then leg grabs were still in can u explain why is that? thank you chadi.
He already explained that .because if you didn't stand upright you will give your opponent especially if he is a good judoka more chance to throw you and bring your head done while rotating because you are bent over
The gi, gripping makes it easier to defend leg grabs
Because people make a giant stink of leg grabs without understanding the basics of jacket wrestling.
Leg attacks are easy to do in No-gi specifically because everything is so slippery. Where the lapel and sleeve control is something you can hold for an entire Judo match, overhooks and collar ties are extremely transient. If your gi is grabbed, its super hard to get down for a takedown- hell you can see this in Sambo too, they don't have much leg grabbing despite the rules allowing it.
Leg grabs are almost like a no-gi unique fighting style lol.