Razer's Wireless is Superior (for now)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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Razer Viper V2 Pro: geni.us/FDBXqY
Logitech G Pro Superlight: geni.us/xJskS0
The playing field for gaming mice is more even than ever, but Razer have found a couple ways to stay ahead.
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optimum tech actually gives you more info than there is on product page
That could be the case for some companies but what he's doing is consuming and digesting data to then lay out in a more attractive manner for the consumer
Edit: His implementation of testing rigs is also a very welcome way of measuring and visualizing improvements
@@JCerris OK
@@JCerris It seems like you dont understand what you just wrote...
@@Ivlodded I'm boutta consume you 😘
i agree like all razer has to do is to put the graph at 3:10 on their product page
This testing tech is really just so interesting
I'd be interested in more tests regarding the 4k dongle and motion sync.
Also compare it to the only other mouse that has 4khz..m2k
Yeah me too, would also be cool to see them in action with a 360hz refresh rate monitor or that one with 390hz. Or maybe with the upcoming 500hz monitors
@@ktg_2castle960 m2k has 8khz, so latency is better on that mouse
@@alevicari367 8khz also makes everything laggy af
@@virologiclmp I have the razer viper wired and at 8khz my pc just can’t handle the polling rate
Great video. The statement "this is like Gsync for a mouse" is really good for marketing.
More people should talk about this
I really love the science and the effort that goes into making these videos where you back up your opinion with scientific proof. Keep doing what you do! You really are doing all of us gamers such a massive favour and you deserve all the respect and support for it.
If there's scientific proof it's not an opinion anymore, though
Hmm it’s scientific appearance but I wouldn’t consider science. Thisbis just better marketing.
Really interesting. The Input/Output topic has always felt missing to me. Having greater and greater speed of processing with better CPU/GPU and delivering the results on faster refresh monitors, is all Output, so I'm happy to see you discuss Input and the effects of syncing both sides of the user experience. I wonder how fast and effortless we can go before needing to change the whole IO ecosystem.
Probably soon. Microsoft is surely aware of some of the inefficiencies of IO that need to be rethought at 8k polling rates, especially on modern hardware.
@@laeiounMicrosoft shadow dropped an update over the past year to change the scheduling in how often it checks for mouse input to solve the issue of cpu usage with higher polling mice. Not sure if that’s the best way to word what they did but it solve the stuttering issue I was having.
@@stimmymcgotems408 You're correct.
A video comparing a mouse from the 90's vs today's best mouse would be fun
The main difference would definitely be the input delay. Old mice had very low refresh rates of around 125hz or even lower. The original Razer Viper maxed out at 125hz in 2004.
Gonna buy the viper 2 so I can lose better in overwatch.
been maining the viper v2 pro since it released - perfect combination with the 60he
and great vid, very well presented like always
I'm running the same combo!
Was hoping to hear other people with that combo, currently waiting for my 60he
The he is too good man
Do u prefer it over the apex pro?
@@basedkat haven't tried it, but from reviews and comparisons i'd say the 60he is better
only minor complaint i've seen is the spring weight but you can just get lighter springs if you want
My razer dongle died after 3 months of normal use nothing serious. I look at the problem at forum seen ton of people having the same problem. I'm amused I mean its 200 dollars for 2 years warranty. If it dies after warranty expire then you're done.
This explains why my new DAv3 pro not only feels wildly smooth but makes games look and feel smoother at 4k polling. On 240hz everything just feels smoother compared to my GPX. Logitech needs to get back in the lab and get new sensor tech now.
Honestly, if you enjoy the ergo shape that the DAv3 has, stick to it. I don't have it yet, but it looks like the ergo mouse to have for the next few years. 4000HZ 63G Wireless Ergo is just insane to me, and as a Pulsar Xlite V2 Wireless fan I am excited to try it.
and that would be a $50 price bump
Razer has exclusive rights with Pixart for about a year or so with the new sensor so it may be a while before we see something from Logitech with this new tech, looking forward to it tho, props to Razer for pushing innovation.
@@stevetriple8 Logitech makes their own sensors. Razer having exclusivity doesn't matter to them. However actual competition will hopefully drive them to make something new.
@@stevetriple8 That´s not entirely true tho. Pixart has motion-sync in their latest PAW3395 which is open for any company to use. Pulsar X2 Sym for example is already released and has motion-sync. They have even done it possible to enable/disable it in their software. Endgame gear XM2w which seems to take ages to be released uses PAW3395 and was prob the first product to spotlight this feature on their product page. Meanwhile it´s true that Razer has a partnership with Pixart, this tends more to get them their owned tweaked versions of "insert named" sensors. 3399 is basicly their unique touch on the 3395 and so on. Meanwhile Logitech also has had this partnership with Pixart for years and they actually had the 3366 for about a year locked to them before 3360 was released through other company´s products. But that´s not the case for the 3395 and it´s motion-sync feature.
As Logitech did alot of the work and research to make the 3366(3360) and later on understood that Pixart would sell it to every company out there, they started to make their own sensors "HERO - High Efficiency Rating Optical". But in the case of Razer i would say they fall more or less in the same category as other brands like Steelseries "Truemove" or Roccat´s "Owl-Eye". Sure you would see some higher DPI and special features here and there, but in the long run the hardware comes from Pixart and is based on a sensor they sell. It´s more about custom firmware & software that seperates them.
No one is making such detailed reviews about tech that we gamers care about.
Thank you for putting so much time and effort into your videos, They're really fun to watch.
I love that you're showing the differences between mice brands and model than just looks and feel although they're more important as you've said.
I really appreciate this in-depth look/review about product features rather than just skin deep review! much respect for the time and effort you put into this!
How do you not have over a million subscribers!!!?
I'm very resistant to common marketing and ads, almost never ad or promo with their BS attraction strategy will lure me into buying unless I very carefully read technical specs, but these detailed technical videos from optimum tech with accurate testing...man, I'm "shut up and take my money" every time by the end
except that none of this has any real impact on your gaming performance
@@nothingness863 if my WiFi wasn't so sh*t maybe it would matter more lol
@@nothingness863 stop the cap
@@Minurz no, it wouldn't
Amazing Review as always!
Btw, any plans on doing a hands on review of the new Alienware AW3423DW QD Oled display?
just got the deathadder v3 pro, been loving it way more than the g pro. Does feel slightly snapper but also the shape is WAY better for my large hands
Really nice and refreshing to see with hole new perspective to lookig at the mouce. 👍👍
Bro makes such good videos, always concise yet informative, great explanations, clean graphics and camera quality, AND you're actually good at games which means we can trust the things you say and your opinion on these things. Bro is like the perfect gaming/tech youtuber right now fr
this is why i like razer since i came back to buying their products (2019). they innovate.
if there would be a razer viper v2 pro mini with 50g, then i would main it. but the normal viper is just to big and flat for me
Fingers crossed for a Viper V2 Pro Wireless Mini.
I mean there's the SE
4k hz will be very important for pros soon. Not saying I saw a 700hz display but I'm not, not saying I'm not not working on it
Finally i understand what motion sync does exactly and how it works. I did't find any really useful information on that on the internet before!
Such an amazing work and explanation. This is the reason why I'm subscribed to this gentleman.
Hats off for your content: so professional, nice visualization with the clean graphs plus explaining, high quality b-roll shots etc.
And plus points for being a tech youtuber who can actually game really well.
the problem is that these things get hit hard by diminishing returns. its the same with the optical switches from logitech which are 60% faster, but if the switch delay is just 5% of the total delay then 60% is just irrelevant
This is interesting, never knew mice had motion sync... Will def be looking to get a razor mouse as my next upgrade
It’s spelled “R Λ Z Ξ R”
Careful, I have this mouse and it suffers from the same problem many razer mice do which is problems with the scroll wheel/double clicking and I've only had it since March. Somehow Razer has not fixed this problem after years and years...
@@Chaosball-wc1kk never had these problems with Razer could just be a Quality Control Problem
@@Chaosball-wc1kk Double-clicking is an issue with the switches being used. Many mice use the OMRON D2FC-F-7N switch and it is known to cause double-clicking eventually.
@@shooternerd It's definitely not, look up anything to do with Razer mice, it happens to them all at some point whether it's 3 months or 3 years.
How long have you had your mouse and which one?
That mouse-test-rig looks very nice for a d.i.y. solution but the lack of "stiffening" is the limiting factor for speed.
I can only imagine how much it wobbles when that huge Z-axis slider isn't supported......
You could have just X-axis and top speed from the stepper motor, those are scary fast when software alloews. :D
Love your content Optimum but u can’t say the mices recently have been boring when you haven’t even tried the new pulsar X2, Lamzu Atlantis or perhaps the Fantech Aria
6:43 He's aware
Yea thats not gonna change anything lmao its still technically within spec with what was discussed.
Do you think Logitech will be able to implement motion sync on there software side for the G303 SE and GPX or there sensor doesn't have that feature period?
I love this kind of input breakdown. I hope your tech improve, so we can get more content. Great job!
Your content is my fav rn, i always look forward to your videos, very informational. Can u do a quick review on the tenz? I saw ur othrr short trial video but id like ur full take!
Wow that’s wild. I really hope Logitech comes out with an updated G Pro X Superlight sometime soon to compete. I hate having to use micro usb to charge it, and I’d appreciate the better sensor resolution.
@@idkwhatname3133 So we shouldn't want improvements in the performance of our hardware because some people might not notice the improvement? That's a pretty weak opinion. The cumulative effect of multiple improvements like this can have an impact that is noticeable to a lot of people. Faster grey-to-grey response times and higher refresh rates won't help everyone, and perhaps lower latency and higher sensor resolution won't help everyone either, but I see no reason to suppress these improvements. If you want a cheap mouse that may hinder your performance, then you can buy one. When I upgrade my mouse every few years, I'd rather buy one that's objectively better than the last.
@@idkwhatname3133 ur brain got motion blur
@@idkwhatname3133 when I played competitively I played with a 30$ mouse and a dining room chair lmao. Having better peripherals isn’t a sin 😜
Razer will only be superior when their products can work without an update every day (that may not even pertain to the product that you own) and their software constantly running in the background. I had a mouse pad, and it would never work properly until I updated my nonexistent razer mouse or other misc. razer product I didn't own, and I refuse to have one more program running in the background.
amazing content
I have a Basilisk V3 with that sensor and I can read online everywhere that it has Motion Sync but I can't find an Option to activate it?
I wonder if there is a way to know who's wireless audio is the best
Thank you for putting so much effort investigating the product and presenting such in-depth review to the community.
Just one question, does the optimization in reciving signals making a great difference when using these gaming mouse and does the effect of sensor motion sync have connection with the DPI settings?
razer has really changed and improved as a brand ever since they started listening to the modding community. I love that they sell doubleshot keycaps now, custom power cables, and super light mice. The brand went from a cheap gimickey brand to a top quality brand. Obviously they'll never have keyboards as good as the super expensive custom ones but they're still high end.
honestly the fact that they were a cheap gimmicky brand was the main reason I stayed away from their mice until the release of their Viper V2 pro. It seemed like a step up from the rest of the mice out there, now also being 4k Hz compatable makes it even more impressive. Sadly the mouse isn't quite the fit for me, I have medium hands so large mice generally feel comfortable but small mice feel like they offer more control with a little less comfort depending on the shape and size. If they put out a Mini, It would probably have a good chance of becoming my new main.
I had to switch to Logi because my Deathadder V2 Pro Wireless in 2.4 interferes with my phone and airpods. No issues with my new Pro Superlight. Not saying Logi is better, just pointing out an issue I've had with my own wireless setup.
I agree that mice have all been going the same place, especially with the bigger companies. I'm currently using a pulsar xlite wireless and I'd honestly never think about changing it. There's just nothing else like it in terms of form factor in the market.
So, i wont see much difference in shooter games and i should stay with Logitech G pro superlight ?
It's just not enough to justify me buying a new mouse unfortunately...but it's cool to see the mouse brands innovating.
What mouse do you have
@@agsechogd6406 g pro superlight
Great video! Thank you for making these beautifal charts, they inspired me so much.
I love that you investigated this stuff @Optimum Tech! This stuff also amazes me. Another thing to look into is apparently the implementation of motion sync. There's been word that even the hardware-based 3395 sensor with motion sync module on, can even add 1ms of input delay if not implemented correctly. Apparently not as easy as slapping a 3995 and turning on motion sync without issues. Great video!
love your videos, my favorite tech youtuber by a landslide
Motion sync is still present at 4khz, and 2k. It is difficult at the moment to get to be smooth
I've been wondering for months... Why is is that when I go to flick, around 20% of the time my cursor stops WAY too early then keeps going, or just stops overall, why is this? I don't know. I've never thrown my mouse, slammed it, nothing to make the sensor act up. Looks like ill be switching from my G Pro Superlight, to Razer when they release that prototype Tarik has. The way it seems now is that G Pro Superlight is like a 60hz monitor, switching to Razer would be like upgrading to 144hz. Anyways great video, thank you for this.
I can always identify your videos by their very unique thumbnails, great work!
I have a 60 hertz monitor is there any problem using 1000 polling rate or using 125 or 500? my mouse is a razer viper mini .if anyone can help i would appreciate it
Very interesting video, I always feel something is different with my Aria than my Tenz, not the weight nor the shape, more likely the sensor.
how much did they pay you for this review?
As the others I would not have thought so much tech would go into a mouse. Do you consider launching your own brand of hardware at some point? Is that T1 in the back the aircooled build you've shown us or the newer build? 😉
Please test Pulsar Gaming Gears new X2 mouse they have recently implemented motion sync
great video as always :)
have you tested if there is a kind of "smoother" curve on the g pro if you use it on 500 hz?
Is motion sync technology enabled by default in razer viper v2 pro? Or we have to enable it manually?
These mices are very complicated in my opinion. Once you plug them then, you have to find the right sensitivity and movement speed. I miss having a mouse that is plug and play and it's just good the way it is. That's how my 2013 Deathadder was
I don't rly get what you mean
Its not that complicated. That just means the mouse you have shape and weight wise isnt for you. If you like the deathadder, you want to look for ergo mice like pulsar xlite or zowie ec2.
Plz plz plz plz review the Acer Nitro XZ3 XZ273u 1440p 240hz display
I am buying a new pc later this year but I wanna know the downsides of this monitor
Doesn't the 3395 also have motionsync? Would love a comparison.
I'm curious because my XM1r (3370) also has MotionSync that can be enabled
Afternoon, Samsung just released a 240hz ips budget monitor, Samsung g40b was wondering how that would go against xg2431
This is incredible, thank you for making this
The fantech aria is the most interesting one of them all IMO
Can't wait to get my hands on it
I know the mice aren't in the same class with super lights, but I'd be curious if Corsair's 2000hz wireless can compensate for the missing sensor consistency with brute force excess.
Interested in that 4k testing for the same curiosity.
How have you done a better job show casing and explaining their tech then them lol
Can't stress enough how I love your approach to reviewing gaming tech, data driven analysis with minimalistic editing just.. *chef's kiss* 👌
You should make a video about gaming sleeves. I was a bit sceptical when I picked one up but it made my aim really consistent because my hand doesn't stick to the mouse pad anymore, this was very frustrating for arm aiming.
Ever since I have tried razer's wireless mice with the focus sensor, it always felt "snappier" but people told me it was placebo. When I read the motionsync info on their page it seemed like it played a part. Good to know that there's actually a performance difference.
I agree that the Razer mouse is now responsive and also the best sensor of the competition. I've been using Viper Ultimate for 2 years and never had any issues like lag or double clicks.
wireless or wired mouse the difference is only milliseconds. Razer Viper 8K Hz is good for FPS but Razer Viper Ultimate is also good. for Razer Viper 8K Hz you must have a high end pc spec. I recommend the Razer Viper Ultimate Mercury (V2 Switch Mouse) for you.
This "motion sync" on sensor can be completly useless if syncing is happening on the reciever side with software. Logical continuation of this topic will be how exactly this data is interptetated on os level and if there are any post processing happening on the driver level by manufacturer.
Wireless mice always felt off to me when I compared them to wired. I knew it wasn’t a latency issue too. This makes so much sense.
This has nothing to do with wired mice lol
@@Dylbert read his comment again
@@DankMemes-xq2xm Yeah i mean the video has nothing to do with wireless mice if he did the same test it would be very similar so this comment is just not correct lol
I mean if he did same test with wired
@@Dylbert he literally said in the video that the jitter is something that affects wireless mice, which implies that it doesn't affect wired mice, and it also doesn't affect the new razer wireless mice because they fixed the issue. So Nostalgic is saying he noticed a difference between wireless mice and wired mice because the wireless mice he used doesn't have the fix that razer uses.
Looks promising. Too bad Razer makes cheaply made, over-priced junk. Can't wait to see this tech in other (good) brands.
Bought 2 different razer controller, both busted easily. Ot gona trust razer again. The "apple" of video games
Your content is unmatched. Very well done. The research, the presentation, the effort, it's all so well executed.
Very interesting, how did it feel in game? Notice any different with motion sync?
Would like to see these tests on the new Logitech G502 X. Marketing says they've really improved Lightspeed to a huge degree as compared to the last gen.
How to spot an idiot: "marketing" "says".
@@gdgd5194 And he isnt wrong. 502 are among the popular muce and the X is well recieved
Will you review the Razer Deathadder V3 Pro?
woah the motion sync thing sounds INSANE. Optimum Tech is in a league of his own in mice testing and finding the TRUE ABSOLUTE BEST of them 💯💯💯
This is dope! But..... Does this effect us in game?
What about real life tests?
Like: is it actually better for aiming, for example? If you give those two mice to several pro players, would one group perform better than the other?
yes
no they wouldnt. a lot of best "aimers" in cs go still play on 500hz instead of 1k/4k/8k etc... razer "tech" wont even make them 1% better especially in the short term where they have to get used to the mouse shape/sensor placement. So yea... on paper its better but you should always go for shape over weight/high polling rate.
The problem of Razer's wireless product is the stability
I bought a Razer Pro Type and it ruined my work.
Always found it disconnect.
And the wake up is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
80% of the pros in Valorant and CSGO still use the GPX superlight. It’s a good all rounded mouse with a shape that’s pretty universal for most.
The other 20% would consist of Starlight, Vaxee, Zowie, Razor, Fnatic if you’re lucky to spot one.
In Apex and COD it’s the same - of at least 5 pro’s I’ve seen it’s either the Starlight, GPX and now more recently Lamzu.
This just tells you the majority are not interested in Razor and haven’t it does not necessarily make the player “a Pro” just because of polling rates or latency which is hardly picked up by the human eye. What does make the biggest difference is the shape, as muscle memory will work best with a mouse you are comfortable using in hand vs forcing your grip to a shape that doesn’t work for you. FYI that’s where Razor is. The shape is okay for those who haven’t really tested other brands in the market.
@@willstw wrobg
Thank you for your amazing informative videos
literal EMI with wireless tech. If you dont play with WIFI on your PC then you shouldn't be so willing to do the same with a mouse even if the distance is closer. You can't measure errors nor retransmissions of data. Those spikes and dips in polling data is literally caused by interference. It can happen with wired cables too (just way less though). Shielded cables be it ethernet cords, or actual mouse/keyboard cords can be way more performant.
pure BS
@@riba2233 can you prove otherwise ? because what I said is undeniably true. Why do you think 1-4khz wireless is unstable in a lot of environments? Is it magic? Please, you have no background in tech if you say bs. Only an idiot would deny the facts.
If I'm following correctly, according to some Razer folks on different forums (Blur Busters I recall specifically) Motion Sync works up to 4k and comes on any of the Razer 20k (3399) sensor mice or higher but it's harder to see the higher the polling rate.
First ? I guess everyone is lol
I don't think razers tech is as consistent, which is my problem. Me and multiple of my friends would consistently experience "hiccups" where our mouse would LOCK itself at the look straight down position for 4-5 seconds in the middle of a match. This is why I went with shroud edition.
Wow.. a brilliant test!
just marketing, 90% of gamers dont feel any difference, also most of the gamers use 400 dpi not 1600.
it looks like at 4000Hz motion sync is disabled but is it also off on 2000Hz ?
This is so nerdy. I love it!
Introducing the logitech x ultralight
JackFrags just mentioned you in his sponsored video about this :) just FYI
i got the viper mini , waiting for the ultimate version ... patiently
I'd be interested if you tested the new Logitech G502 Lightspeed X Plus to determine if they've improved the Wi-Fi.
Great test, thank-you.
this makes me wanna get the viper v2 pro but nah im good i already spend alot of my gpx superlight WAHAAHAHA
Watched your desk setup video the other day and now I suddenly have a Zaunkoenig M2K being delivered to me, despite never hearing about it until I clicked on your video.
I feel like this stands to benefit a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of players, even at the elite end of the spectrum.
This man is the reason I got the viper ultimate from his wireless speed video your awesome dude
im currently using the viper ultimate, its a bit old and is getting a bit creaky and used. Wondering if i should upgrade to the pro v2?
I think the viper ultimate already has the same motion sync the pro v2 mouse has
Huh. I could never really explain why Razer's mice just felt smoother than my MDW, but I guess this is why. It's subtle and didn't really make any practical difference, but it somehow felt different.
It would be great to see how it would look using 800, 1000, and 1200 dpi.
Is that why I think the v2 pro feels so incredibly smooth compared to my gpx?
Yes.
Tell me when Razer has the feature of not nagging users to install Synapse constantly
dont get me wrong this is sick but like how much of a difference is this gonna make when using the mouse in game