2017 Chevrolet Camaro - Review and Road Test

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  • Опубликовано: 21 янв 2025

Комментарии • 333

  • @Vin.P
    @Vin.P 8 лет назад +178

    I love the Camaro so much. I pray to god for when I graduate college I will be in the right position to buy one and care for one!

  • @joetarrant99
    @joetarrant99 8 лет назад +49

    KBB has some of the most structured and real world reviews out here. Awesome.

  • @pancakecrownrblx9683
    @pancakecrownrblx9683 8 лет назад +22

    Camaros are awesome.. I remember the movie Transformers and my favorite was always bumblebee, he's awesome.

  • @enderzebak2418
    @enderzebak2418 7 лет назад +86

    a yellow camaro is always an eye catcher

  • @seb5945
    @seb5945 8 лет назад +117

    "It has gone through a major transformation." I get the joke. x)

    • @ivanascencio6188
      @ivanascencio6188 8 лет назад +11

      Don't ever "X)" wtf is wrong with you this isn't 2003

    • @seb5945
      @seb5945 8 лет назад +14

      Ivan Ascencio Why are you still using the 600 years old language then? X)

    • @hengweiteh
      @hengweiteh 8 лет назад +4

      Ivan Ascencio X)

    • @TaigaXZ
      @TaigaXZ 8 лет назад +3

      x)

    • @Thegermanhunter
      @Thegermanhunter 7 лет назад +2

      x)

  • @cloud-wg3kf
    @cloud-wg3kf 7 лет назад +48

    Just picked up one for 25K rs package it's the sickest car

    • @alexadnan77
      @alexadnan77 6 лет назад

      cloud 9000 in india?

    • @r1can79
      @r1can79 5 лет назад

      I’m getting one very soon I’m so excited

  • @kasane3757
    @kasane3757 7 лет назад +7

    I own one of thesr bad boys. No complaints about visibility. And hella fast.

  • @elliotmock8391
    @elliotmock8391 7 лет назад +2

    This was the car that got me interested in cars and what made me start watching Kelley Blue Book for reviews. While my love for a muscle car has moved to a Ford Mustang, I love this car as well.

  • @ccol009
    @ccol009 4 года назад +6

    I LOVE my 2017 Chevrolet Camaro RS! It’s the perfect daily driver! Not too much horsepower but enough to get you out of trouble on the road and enough for daily driving (335hp 280 something ft lbs torque) I LOVE the double bar 5 spoke rims SO COOL! The little attached air spoiler in the rear! Such a Great daily driver! You can get one for under 30K heck you shop around (car buying apps) you can get one for probably around 20K just shop around, you are bound to get a Great affordable deal!

    • @nilulal545
      @nilulal545 Год назад

      Most sensible advice. 😊 💯 right.

  • @Sevan_UP
    @Sevan_UP 7 лет назад +48

    V8 camaro = muscle car
    V6 camaro = sports car
    Simple

  • @danielgaskell5490
    @danielgaskell5490 8 лет назад +4

    Best complete review I've seen in a long time....Thank you.

  • @Tomgillchevy
    @Tomgillchevy 5 лет назад +4

    The 6th generation has been a really dynamic step forward for the Camaro brand. A whole new era in front of it!

  • @sathirakatugaha974
    @sathirakatugaha974 8 лет назад +176

    bumblebee

    • @1ledan
      @1ledan 8 лет назад +2

      where the two lines r at? so yeah its not

    • @ghostex200
      @ghostex200 8 лет назад +1

      xDanny 10 I'm Bumblebee!

    • @1ledan
      @1ledan 8 лет назад +1

      Bumblebee RS exacly

    • @musicsface101
      @musicsface101 7 лет назад

      I liked big bird better lol

    • @Maru-nu7ll
      @Maru-nu7ll 7 лет назад

      I have that car/similar

  • @jaymelynnmcintyre8574
    @jaymelynnmcintyre8574 2 года назад +2

    I'm impressed with the 2.0 turbo it really moves well and the Bembro brakes along with the manual are awesome overall

  • @And3rson1294
    @And3rson1294 8 лет назад +169

    Feels like blind spot monitoring should be standard on this car.

    • @MAGirlable
      @MAGirlable 7 лет назад +8

      It's like driving a space ship.

    • @ansdguy1
      @ansdguy1 7 лет назад +7

      Ever try to back up a Lamborghini? You have to side on the door sill and rotate your torso to see behind you, while controlling the gas, brake and clutch pedals? The Camaro is a piece of cake by comparison. I have, in the past, owned a Camaro for many years and drove it daily. (3rd gen.) Initially, it was a bit scar]ry to drive due to the seating position, rear window view and heavy reliance on fairly small mirrors. Then, after a week or so, all those issues disappeared and the car was a blast to drive. People can adapt to just about anything. I never, in 14 years, had an accident of any kind.

    • @davecabansay8965
      @davecabansay8965 6 лет назад +1

      ​@@ansdguy1 Completely right. I don't feel that the Camaro's visibility is as bad as people claim it to be. Sure, it's no Honda Civic but it's more than enough to see out of. I have driven multiple cars with worse visibility. 370z for example is really bad but no one ever seems to mention that.

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      I have a 2SS which, like 2LT, does come with BSM, but I agree that they should NOT make any safety equipment - including the backup side monitors - dependent on a specific trim package. The rest of the up-level "2" trim - heated/cooled leather seats, seat memory, dual-zone climate ctl, interior accent lighting, Bose stereo, head-up display are luxury creature comforts, but the BSM and BU monitors are for OTHER drivers' safety as well - not to mention your/their passengers as well.

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      @@MAGirlable Yea, ain't it cool?

  • @DevPack
    @DevPack 8 лет назад +133

    Camaro and Mustang are not muscle cars anymore. They are pure sports cars which perform extremely well. The only modern muscle cars that are left are the Dodge Challenger and Charger. Big, heavy, insane power and RWD!

    • @paxtonb7202
      @paxtonb7202 8 лет назад +4

      And completely un drivable
      But let me ask you: what makes a muscle car a muscle car? (Besides the aforementioned power, weight and lack of handling)

    • @liquidjubb3672
      @liquidjubb3672 8 лет назад +1

      You do know that dodge is working on awd challengers right. And there's already an awd charger.

    • @DevPack
      @DevPack 8 лет назад +4

      None of the high performance products from dodge are AWD.

    • @liquidjubb3672
      @liquidjubb3672 8 лет назад

      +DevPack blog.caranddriver.com/dodge-releasing-awd-widebody-challenger-hellcat-and-awd-non-hellfeline-challenger/

    • @DevPack
      @DevPack 8 лет назад +1

      ok? Whats your point?

  • @gorbachev765
    @gorbachev765 8 лет назад +32

    I always hear reviewers talk about visibility. I have no problems seeing out of my 2016.

    • @joshuaheaton9153
      @joshuaheaton9153 6 лет назад

      Gorbachev 76 hey guess what NOT THE MAMA!!!!!!!

    • @rickc6028
      @rickc6028 5 лет назад +2

      Same.. just got a 2020! I think most drivers don't know how to setup the mirror so they don't have blindspot.

    • @davidarmstrong1421
      @davidarmstrong1421 3 года назад +1

      Same here I have no issues seeing out of my 2016 Red hot Camaro

    • @jaymelynnmcintyre8574
      @jaymelynnmcintyre8574 2 года назад

      Exactly me either

  • @TheCastroson
    @TheCastroson 5 лет назад +2

    "Visibility issues"? Are you fucking kidding me? As far as im concerned, even in my compact lil car, i ALWAYS turn my head to check my sides before merging or turning. Wow. I CANT WAIT to finally get my hands on one of these.

  • @nknasi
    @nknasi 8 лет назад +5

    it's crazy how much the rear end looks like my 1998 BB6 Prelude.

  • @zoec3041
    @zoec3041 2 года назад +1

    I saw this car on the highway & fell in-love. I’m claiming this car IJN!!

  • @dannyrutter9397
    @dannyrutter9397 7 лет назад +10

    does it transform?

  • @hirdayjitsingh
    @hirdayjitsingh 7 лет назад +17

    2:41 Eargasms😍😍😍

  • @kangvp9512
    @kangvp9512 5 лет назад +2

    Holy actual fuck. The engine used in a Traverse sounds like a V8! Probably one of the best sounding V6 engines in the world. If not the best.

  • @sanadastephenalcanzarin1429
    @sanadastephenalcanzarin1429 6 лет назад

    You are one of the most awesome channel car review I've watched so far

    • @kbb
      @kbb  6 лет назад

      We love hearing that! Thanks for your support, Stephen!

  • @RobertFairweatherMusic
    @RobertFairweatherMusic 8 лет назад +31

    camaros are rolling blind spots...not easy to drive without constant head checking...but they are hella fun....

    • @mr.boostang2064
      @mr.boostang2064 8 лет назад +6

      Guitar Lessons With Robert just teaches people to be more careful, my challenger has similar blind spots and I always have to turn my head to make sure Im not about to ram someone off the road, the habit has stuck with me now and I always turn to look even when driving the corolla.

    • @RobertFairweatherMusic
      @RobertFairweatherMusic 8 лет назад +1

      Was shopping the challenger when I found a sweet deal on a 'maro. Enjoyed the test drives in the challengers.

    • @mr.boostang2064
      @mr.boostang2064 8 лет назад +1

      Guitar Lessons With Robert thinking of getting a Camaro myself maybe before the new year

    • @RobertFairweatherMusic
      @RobertFairweatherMusic 8 лет назад +1

      IMHO I favor the 2011 rag top. I love the look. Mine is orange. This new look is not growing on me unless it's the ZL1 version.

    • @mr.boostang2064
      @mr.boostang2064 8 лет назад

      Guitar Lessons With Robert I agree the 2010-2013 Camaro look the best especially the tail lights, my friend has a black 2013 ls3 SS coupe with quad pipes and that thing is pure badass. The new 2016 SS is just one step down on looks but 2 steps up in performance.

  • @twiztid133
    @twiztid133 8 лет назад +32

    Bumblebee

  • @coureurdebois
    @coureurdebois 8 лет назад +29

    its left the segment, its left the mustang and challenger behind. it has a better interior than the mustang with more leather on the dash, tunnel, and doors, superior connectivity, and more standard features. not to mention the camaro completely out handles the GT with little to no competition, its closer in handling to the GT350 than the mustang GT is to the camaro.

    • @aaronknoll8508
      @aaronknoll8508 8 лет назад

      Ah there you are

    • @coureurdebois
      @coureurdebois 8 лет назад

      hey babe

    • @rousseau327
      @rousseau327 8 лет назад +1

      The GT350 is still a cut above the rest; we'll see how Chevy responds with the new Z28 variant, whatever is coming. But i agree, the SS>>>>>>>GT

    • @coureurdebois
      @coureurdebois 8 лет назад +1

      ewt415 well with the ZL1 priced right in line with the GT350... erm... thats gonna be the next match up.

    • @rousseau327
      @rousseau327 8 лет назад

      justin bouche Same price doesn't mean it's a same comparison. The GT350 is a stripped out track car (relatively), and the ZL1 is a road car.

  • @chrisvicente5120
    @chrisvicente5120 3 года назад +2

    There's more to that car than meets the eye

  • @claytongillespie754
    @claytongillespie754 8 лет назад +38

    i love camaros

  • @scottb5256
    @scottb5256 6 лет назад +8

    Visibility issue is so overrated! This car is amazing! To bad they refreshed the body.

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      They're re-refreshing the SS - painting the cross bar body color and moving bow-tie to upper grille. Satisfied most critics.

  • @southshore0007
    @southshore0007 7 лет назад +1

    what a great review I just bought this car in white...

  • @TYAC_red
    @TYAC_red 8 лет назад +7

    It's a fighting vehicle. A limited interior space and a requirement for a spotter peeking out of the moon roof.

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      Hey, for 2019 they added a full-time video rear view mirror.

  • @bballer191
    @bballer191 6 лет назад +3

    The Camero looks nice, but it has a TINY interior. If you’re over 6’0, this car is not going to be comfortable. I’m 6’4 and felt really squished. Small windshield too, so I had to slouch to get a better view. Would not recommend if you’re on the taller side.

  • @JesusChristIsTheOnlyWay
    @JesusChristIsTheOnlyWay 7 лет назад +3

    Just got it! Awesome car!

    • @kbb
      @kbb  7 лет назад +1

      So glad to hear that! Congrats on your new car!

    • @skullcandysosa1643
      @skullcandysosa1643 7 лет назад

      How much?

  • @diegocarrillo472
    @diegocarrillo472 5 лет назад

    The Chevrolet Camaro does come with a backup camera. But do all of them have a camera?

  • @Jerryyy567
    @Jerryyy567 6 лет назад +5

    This is my future car FOR SURE 😆😆😆

  • @letitbeknown6822
    @letitbeknown6822 7 лет назад +2

    The Zl1 Lt1 is by far the absolute definition of a Muscle Car!!!!

    • @coryr9938
      @coryr9938 7 лет назад

      ZL1 LT1? LT1 is the standard 6.2 in the SS. No such thing as a ZL1 LT1...

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      @@coryr9938 I think he means ZL1 1LE - more of a track car.

  • @joeyalmonte7089
    @joeyalmonte7089 8 лет назад

    Would've like to hear the exhaust note at the end when you slowly took off

  • @blackericdenice
    @blackericdenice 7 лет назад

    I'm renting a 2017 V6 now. Video review will be up soon. This thing will haul ass on the first trip.

  • @Sleepygrinder
    @Sleepygrinder 8 лет назад +5

    Dang, this V6 sounds vicious.

    • @pontiacGXPfan
      @pontiacGXPfan 4 года назад

      It kinda sounds like a old VQ V6

  • @w140chris
    @w140chris 7 лет назад +6

    Dream car

  • @AndrewHrab
    @AndrewHrab 8 лет назад

    Is it just me or at 6:36 till the end, that none of the car's panel gaps look like they're similarly sized??

  • @authentic1997
    @authentic1997 7 лет назад +2

    It looks very nice I'm loving it

  • @okamisanwa
    @okamisanwa 8 лет назад +10

    Damn these cars are cheap in the US... You almost get 2 in the US for the price of 1 in Sweden.

    • @mrandy7527
      @mrandy7527 8 лет назад +1

      Richie lol u get 30 in the us and 1 in indonesia

    • @R4T_
      @R4T_ 6 лет назад

      Lol, you get 2 here in Nigeria

    • @murilomeller1554
      @murilomeller1554 6 лет назад

      In Brazil Its value is more than R$300.000 and our salary here is less than R$1.000

  • @jcirvine38
    @jcirvine38 2 года назад

    It reminds me of the Lincoln Mark 8 i had, a luxury sport coupe, like the host said😁

  • @p3trw_colt
    @p3trw_colt 6 лет назад +2

    My favorite sport car

  • @chrisanderson9359
    @chrisanderson9359 6 лет назад +2

    Hats off to Chevy 🎩

  • @antonio.cachia
    @antonio.cachia 7 лет назад +1

    You can drive this car as a automatic right?

    • @davidarmstrong1421
      @davidarmstrong1421 3 года назад

      Yes I have the V6 automatic and all the engines are available with an automatic.

  • @epicab2092
    @epicab2092 6 лет назад

    The yellow colour on bumblebee looks better than this yellow and the 2 black lines also look cool

  • @stanleys.5853
    @stanleys.5853 8 лет назад

    At least for me the Camaro looks more and should feel more sporty than the mustang due to its sporty design and louder sporty exhaust notes. Dam nice sports car.

  • @hokiebird71
    @hokiebird71 8 лет назад +4

    I'm guessing that the low torque on the V6 helps with fuel mileage? I'd rather have the 4 cylinder turbo

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      The lower torque than HP is typical of DOHC 24V V6s. Those numbers are 5 higher HP and 8 higher Ft-lbs than my 2008 G37S, yet goes 0-60 a half second quicker.

  • @pauly14
    @pauly14 8 лет назад +1

    Please do a 2017 Chevy Sonic (hatch) review

  • @thenerfman
    @thenerfman 7 лет назад

    So what model of the car is it

  • @Shaggyonly1
    @Shaggyonly1 3 года назад +3

    I hope on buying the 2010 or 2012 transformers edition by the end of the year hopefully 🙏🏽

  • @krocialblack
    @krocialblack 8 лет назад +1

    The Camaro, Mustang and Challenger where never "muscle cars". They where always pony cars. A cross between muscle car and sports car. The last true muscle cars we have left is the Charger and Chevy SS.

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      True muscle cars? They're both sedans. Muscle cars were cheap mid-size COUPES, with big block V8 power shoe horned under their hoods.

  • @ChristopherCarReviews
    @ChristopherCarReviews 7 лет назад +1

    I really like this car

  • @isabellazero8358
    @isabellazero8358 6 лет назад +1

    Camaro is a nice car!!

  • @aaronknoll8508
    @aaronknoll8508 8 лет назад

    Justin, where you at?

  • @zalaprashantsinh874
    @zalaprashantsinh874 5 лет назад +1

    It's my favorite car in future iwant to buy this loveing car

  • @josueochoa9267
    @josueochoa9267 7 лет назад

    How come not all of them have the daytime running lights? And ik this isn't the 1SS

    • @cheekibreeki7058
      @cheekibreeki7058 7 лет назад

      Josue Ochoa I think this one is the rs!

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      They all have DRLs - it's the law...

  • @martinmartin5904
    @martinmartin5904 8 лет назад

    Does anybody know a body shop which makes the opposite of the top chop ?

  • @diegocarrillo472
    @diegocarrillo472 5 лет назад

    I was right. The Chevrolet Camaro not only have two indicators, but also a blind-spot monintoring system.

  • @outbackeddie
    @outbackeddie 7 лет назад

    I looked at one of these a few years ago and immediately wrote it off as a "no-buy." The visibility was so bad that I thought the car would be a wreck waiting to happen. I can't believe people buy this thing. What are you thinking?

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      The visibility isn't so bad - if you know how to drive in the first place...

    • @davidarmstrong1421
      @davidarmstrong1421 3 года назад

      I have no complaints about the visibility. Never had an issue or any close calls because of visibility. The car feels stable and handles better than my former BMW 428i coupe.
      Also this is my 5th Camaro. Had one 3rd gen, three 4th gens, and now the 6th gen

  • @AkashYadav-tv6gu
    @AkashYadav-tv6gu 6 лет назад

    What will be the road price of this car in India?

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      Check with your local Chevrolet dealer?

  • @TruthFLA
    @TruthFLA 8 лет назад +5

    i am disappointed there were no water bottles thrown in this video. lol

  • @lizzietrew5902
    @lizzietrew5902 4 года назад

    I Love this Camaro car and it is awesome.

  • @LennyGGnoRE
    @LennyGGnoRE 7 лет назад +2

    Dream car :)

  • @Lightgreengraniterock117
    @Lightgreengraniterock117 7 лет назад +6

    Its a pony car, for the past 50 years people still dont get it.

    • @z.i.q131
      @z.i.q131 7 лет назад

      Grant N. Yes it is, but it could still be considered as a muscle car just not a pure muscle car like the dodge challenger

  • @letitbeknown6822
    @letitbeknown6822 7 лет назад +1

    The Reason you Cant see out is you don't need to. No one can keep up with you, all you need to see is where your going slightly..

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      First rule of Italian driving: What is behind me is none of my concern - Cannonball Rally (2?)

  • @zavi247
    @zavi247 4 года назад

    I’m getting this for my first car

  • @thanosarkgamingchannel4986
    @thanosarkgamingchannel4986 6 лет назад

    Can anyone tell me price

  • @MrDonny27
    @MrDonny27 4 года назад +1

    Price still high as of 2020

  • @drakesterX
    @drakesterX 6 лет назад

    Dang,
    If only I had around 40,000 to drop on a car I would totally get one!!

  • @arionnewatford7756
    @arionnewatford7756 8 лет назад

    Can you please do an review on the jeep wrangler please please

  • @Name-kd5jj
    @Name-kd5jj 7 лет назад +1

    I can has one?

  • @AmeerHamza-cy6km
    @AmeerHamza-cy6km 6 лет назад +1

    Dream Car ;(

  • @soniabilal6449
    @soniabilal6449 8 лет назад

    price

  • @harrisjohnny477
    @harrisjohnny477 4 года назад +2

    I bought a Chevrolet Camaro 1lt today R.S.... I love this car so much I am considering applying for a marriage license. I am going to marry this car. I have never seen a woman look this good and treat me this well. It is a fantastic car... I do not understand what people are talkin about the visibility it's perfect
    to me.

    • @davidarmstrong1421
      @davidarmstrong1421 3 года назад +1

      I feel the same way about my 2016 Red Hot Camaro 1LT with the technology package. I didn’t get the RS though but at least it’s not the 4cylinder lol
      I got the V6 it’s the perfect balance of power and great on gas, better than my 2002 Camaro.

  • @Lil-Tee1988
    @Lil-Tee1988 8 лет назад +1

    Did he say a 10 speed???

    • @henrybrar
      @henrybrar 8 лет назад +1

      8

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      He said ZL1 has 10 speed. 2019+ SS has it too.

  • @Roger-sn9ov
    @Roger-sn9ov 7 лет назад

    I love it.. I want one.

  • @_baller
    @_baller 7 лет назад

    A camaro is a sports car since the 80s...

  • @NewtonWashinton
    @NewtonWashinton 7 лет назад

    What the Camaro is depends on what motor it has. V6 is either a girls car or a guy that wants to save gas, V8 SS is a guy that likes sport and performance but its all he can afford. V8 ZL1 is the same guy as the SS guy just has more money.

  • @RainbowUnicornSwag
    @RainbowUnicornSwag 8 лет назад +6

    The best part in this video is when he passed the mustang.

  • @gene978
    @gene978 8 лет назад +1

    Did Zach say something here? Because I am waiting to learn. Tee hee

  • @ceydaoz494
    @ceydaoz494 4 года назад

    I WANT THIS CAR

  • @ianalexander2017
    @ianalexander2017 6 лет назад

    Looks good

  • @mahinahmed2316
    @mahinahmed2316 8 лет назад

    I wonder is that a French flag with the Camero batch on the side

    • @abellopez1444
      @abellopez1444 8 лет назад +1

      I'm pretty sure they just represent
      American colors

    • @colehavenar2638
      @colehavenar2638 5 лет назад

      Fun fact: I think Camaro was actually made by a Frenchman, and Camaro is French for "friend, pal or Comrade"

    • @SteevK69
      @SteevK69 5 лет назад

      @@colehavenar2638 Lutz is French? A Camaro is a small vicious animal that eats mustangs!

  • @surajsuryavanshi7898
    @surajsuryavanshi7898 5 лет назад

    My dream car only

  • @Maru-nu7ll
    @Maru-nu7ll 7 лет назад +1

    Wait wait....Bumblebee.....is that you???
    Don't tell me you got rid of your black stripes and sneakily went to Toyota pretending to be one of their cars just to get advertised!

  • @judge2world855
    @judge2world855 6 лет назад +3

    Yeah. This car amazing for 25k $

  • @hokansaman130
    @hokansaman130 2 года назад +1

    Camaro😎🇺🇸💪

  • @pontiacGXPfan
    @pontiacGXPfan 4 года назад +1

    Yellow Camaro=Transformers

  • @PunxsutawneyDave
    @PunxsutawneyDave 8 лет назад +1

    Zach is such a scamp
    KBB fans: Zach, are you lying to us?
    Zach:...maybe? I'm never really sure.

  • @ΕύηΛαμπρέα
    @ΕύηΛαμπρέα 6 лет назад

    I just noticed that, if it was green, it would look just like Hulk.

  • @kingtrophyguide4362
    @kingtrophyguide4362 6 лет назад +3

    Look like Bumblebee!!!

  • @andrejugadortv4459
    @andrejugadortv4459 7 лет назад +3

    Manchester United Anyone?

  • @rudfil
    @rudfil 7 лет назад

    I hate the term,' muscle car'... too me it means the car can only go fast in a straight line which this Camaro does more than that.

  • @manseungha8773
    @manseungha8773 8 лет назад +5

    claustrophobic

  • @heyitsdragon6635
    @heyitsdragon6635 8 лет назад

    I saw 3 cameros in one day one green red and gray

  • @marinoint
    @marinoint 8 лет назад

    The V6 Camaro is about 320 lbs lighter than SS!