I know and am happy they Minnesota has gotten back pro hockey in The Wild. But the North Stars had the coolest uniforms and name “ The North Stars” . Their logo was unique and awesome and their arena seats were multi colored and very cool looking. It was very 1970’s and they should have never moved in the first place.
There are few defenders of Norm Green in MN, certainly not me. But, I do believe that neither our State, County, or Local governments worked very hard to save the club, nor did the fans or the media bigwigs stand up when needed.
That's because people in the Twin Cities have a cloudy view of their history. The North Stars FIRST had attendance problems in the mid-late 70s thanks to the St. Paul Saints and the WHA. 2 incarnations of the Saints pulled fans from St. Paul and its suburbs away from the North Stars. Walter Bush and the original local owners almost folded the team back then. Also, the Metropolitan Sports Commission fleeced away ownership of the Met from the original owners who paid for it to be built. Later, the Sports Commission wouldn't help the Gund Brothers, who owned the team in the 80s thanks to the merger of the North Stars and the equally bad Cleveland Barons. After the merger, the team improved thanks to being able to keep the best players from both teams and trade off the rest for cash or draft picks. From the mid 80s to the end of the decade, the team didn't play well, and the fans weren't coming. The Gunds, who earlier asked the Sports Commission for help renovating the Met, the Commision refused, and the Gunds spent their own money adding some suites to Met. With attendance continuing to drop and no help from the Sports Commision, the Gunds planned to move the North Stars to San Jose. Lou Nanne and Rocky Wirtz, the owner of the Blackhawks, came up with the "de-merger" plan giving g the Gunds the San Jose market and keeping the North Stars in Minnesota. No one from Minnesota stepped up to buy the North Stars and eventually former Hartford Whalers owner, Howard Baldwin, and Morris Belzeburg bought the team but was quickly running out of money. So they recruited Norm Green to join the ownership group. Shortly after that, Norm bought them out entirely. Towards the end of the 89-90 season, the last with the Gunds as owners, a poll was done by Channel 5 and the Star Tribune asking if people cared if the Northstars would end up leaving Minnesota for San Jose. 60 freaking percent of people in the Twin Cities said they didn't care if the team left! Norm takes over the team, and the 90-91 season starts off horribly. The team isn't playing well, and the Met Center is ghost town. Only a few thousand are showing up. The team tries many things to boost attendance. Many of them were bad ideas. However, they come up with an idea. If fans bought 2 season tickets for the remainder of the season and for the 91-92 season, the North Stars would give you a 3rd ticket for free. This only worked because the team had turned things around after the all-star break. The team makes the playoffs and goes on that magical run to the finals. Mean while, like the Gunds before, Norm Green goes to the Metropolitan Sports Commission for help renovating the Met Center. Just like the Gunds, Norm is rejected by the Commission. Yet he spends $20 million of his money on renovations to the Met. Now who would sink $20 million in an arean he doesn't own, just to leave in 2 years? 91-92 the team falls flat on its face, but makes it to playoffs.Theye have the first place Redwings down 3-1, but ended up losing in 7 games. Remember that buy 2 season tickets get a 3rd one free earlier? Wel, with the start of the 92-93 seaso, the team expected those fans to now pay for that 3rd ticket. Many either dropped the 3rd ticket or dropped all of them entirely. AGAIN attendance plummeted. With no help from the local leaders and fans staying away AGAIN. The NHL let Norm move the team to Dallas. The real blame for the North Stars moving isn't Norm Green. That guy tried. The real blame goes to Metropolitan Sports Commission, the fans for abandoning the team 3 different times, and.....yes, Lou Nanne. That guy was an awful GM. Even Sports Illustrated ran an article called "Falling Stars" about the demise of the North Stars from contenders in the early 80s to an afterthought in the NHL and in the Twin Cities. And if you want more proof of the fair weather fans of the Twin Cities, how about these facts? The Timberwolves original owners, who built the Target Center and also lost ownership of it to the Metropolitan Sports Commission, were going to sell the T-Wolves to a group from New Orleans and the team would move there after only 5-6 seasons in Minneapolis. At the last hour, a local owner was found. Also, the Minnesota Twins were going to be contracted in the early 2000s. The little independent baseball team, The Saint Paul Saints, were out drawing the Twins. Thankfully a talented young core of talent came up, and the team started playing great, and the fans came back. Not to mention the failure of the Minnesota Moose in the IHL, lasting only 2 seasons after the North Stars left town.
Nah let Dallas keep the Stars.. I'm not too in love with the name "Wild" but in my opinion the Logo and Jerseys are some of the best in the league! *Disclaimer I'm a Penguins fan
This move was stupid on so many levels. How the hell do you reject moving to the new, modern Target Center in downtown Minneapolis? That shows his underlying goals weren't to keep the the North Stars in Minnesota. Any other owner would have jumped at that opportunity. The original Jets, the Nordiques, and the Whalers wished they could have had that kind of option.
@@crosstatt7441 I don’t think that played as much of a factor as some people believe. The North Stars switched to Coca-Cola the last couple of years they played at the Met Center. I believe the biggest reasons were his desire for a new arena (which the Twin Cities weren’t willing to give him) and the allegations of sexual misconduct that made him leave town.
I remember the 1991 playoffs when Bobby Smith got hot and the North Stars defeated the Edmonton Oilers in the playoffs to get to the Cup Finals. That arena was buzzing then.
No crossstat, Green would not be an easy guy to like, or absolve. But, city fathers acted like it was no big deal. The STrib did not consider them of paramount importance either. Rachael Blount was good, but the only staff member that cared after John Gilbert was reassigned to cars.
I remember a similar situation in Cleveland. The fans cared about the OG Browns, but sadly, the stadium was an issue and Mayor Mike White didn’t act on it fast enough.
This seems to have happened so quickly. I was getting ready to look at the 1993-1994 schedule around October and I was like "Why the hell does it say Dallas on here?" lol
I would hate to know the feeling of loosing my sports team but I'm so glad that this team moved to Dallas because it brought a wonderful franchise and a ton of amazing experiences to North Texas!
The last few years they had 88% and 91% capacity in a 15k building. So it's not like they were having Florida Panthers type attendance. And there was a newer, more modern arena available in the Target Center in Minneapolis. They would have gladly taken the team, but stupid Norm apparently didn't want to share with the T-Wolves. Any other owner would have jumped at the opportunity to move their team to new modern arena as opposed to moving, even if it meant sharing with an NBA team. Teams were already doing this in older buildings.
One factor that kept that from happening was the cola wars - the Target Center had advertising and pouring rights for Coca-Cola there, whereas the North Stars and the Met Center had Pepsi as their sponsor.
I don't think the cola wars had much to do with it. Norman seemed to be super greedy, had no real ties to Minnesota and his sexual harassment problems are the main factors.
WickedWayz81 the cola wars had alot to do with it as pepsi had a multi million dollar deal with the stars to be their cola product in advertising, they were not going to allow the stars to play in a coke arena without reimbursement of the contract monies which norm didnt have. Additionally target center wasnt going to give norm the box seat revenue which he needed. Lastly st. Paul offered a deal where the wild play not except it wasnt the same building it was the st. Paul civic center, st. Paul had offered to remodel civic center but norm needed a larger cash flow then an now, st. Paul offered a legit deal an norm said no an the NHL all being aware of this allowed to stars to move to expand their reach into the southern us. The NHL could have forced the stars to remain in minnesota and norm to sell the team but they didnt....
How the heck do you move a pro hockey team out of Minnesota?!? It's like moving the Canadiens out of Montreal.
ziggy morris angry wife. But the wild got great jersey.
ziggy morris i would be mad too if my team got moved to the south and did way better and won A STANLEY CUP..... Lol #GoStars
In the 1930s it almost happened the Cleveland Canadiens imagine that
The nstars sucked. Their replacement, the wild, has had great attendance and money
The north stats were miles better than the wild, the wild may have better attendance, but that’s just because they don’t won’t the team to move again
I know and am happy they Minnesota has gotten back pro hockey in The Wild. But the North Stars had the coolest uniforms and name “ The North Stars” . Their logo was unique and awesome and their arena seats were multi colored and very cool looking. It was very 1970’s and they should have never moved in the first place.
Yes, but it took 7 years for a team back in town
The Stars at night, are BIG and bright. Deep in the heart of Texas
There are few defenders of Norm Green in MN, certainly not me.
But, I do believe that neither our State, County, or Local governments worked very hard to save the club, nor did the fans or the media bigwigs stand up when needed.
That’s a great review. It’s not about absolving Green, but rather finding out who else was at fault.
The city of Bloomington didn't do a damn thing
@@michaelleroy9281 How sad.
That's because people in the Twin Cities have a cloudy view of their history. The North Stars FIRST had attendance problems in the mid-late 70s thanks to the St. Paul Saints and the WHA. 2 incarnations of the Saints pulled fans from St. Paul and its suburbs away from the North Stars. Walter Bush and the original local owners almost folded the team back then.
Also, the Metropolitan Sports Commission fleeced away ownership of the Met from the original owners who paid for it to be built. Later, the Sports Commission wouldn't help the Gund Brothers, who owned the team in the 80s thanks to the merger of the North Stars and the equally bad Cleveland Barons.
After the merger, the team improved thanks to being able to keep the best players from both teams and trade off the rest for cash or draft picks. From the mid 80s to the end of the decade, the team didn't play well, and the fans weren't coming. The Gunds, who earlier asked the Sports Commission for help renovating the Met, the Commision refused, and the Gunds spent their own money adding some suites to Met. With attendance continuing to drop and no help from the Sports Commision, the Gunds planned to move the North Stars to San Jose. Lou Nanne and Rocky Wirtz, the owner of the Blackhawks, came up with the "de-merger" plan giving g the Gunds the San Jose market and keeping the North Stars in Minnesota. No one from Minnesota stepped up to buy the North Stars and eventually former Hartford Whalers owner, Howard Baldwin, and Morris Belzeburg bought the team but was quickly running out of money. So they recruited Norm Green to join the ownership group. Shortly after that, Norm bought them out entirely.
Towards the end of the 89-90 season, the last with the Gunds as owners, a poll was done by Channel 5 and the Star Tribune asking if people cared if the Northstars would end up leaving Minnesota for San Jose. 60 freaking percent of people in the Twin Cities said they didn't care if the team left!
Norm takes over the team, and the 90-91 season starts off horribly. The team isn't playing well, and the Met Center is ghost town. Only a few thousand are showing up. The team tries many things to boost attendance. Many of them were bad ideas. However, they come up with an idea. If fans bought 2 season tickets for the remainder of the season and for the 91-92 season, the North Stars would give you a 3rd ticket for free. This only worked because the team had turned things around after the all-star break. The team makes the playoffs and goes on that magical run to the finals.
Mean while, like the Gunds before, Norm Green goes to the Metropolitan Sports Commission for help renovating the Met Center. Just like the Gunds, Norm is rejected by the Commission. Yet he spends $20 million of his money on renovations to the Met. Now who would sink $20 million in an arean he doesn't own, just to leave in 2 years? 91-92 the team falls flat on its face, but makes it to playoffs.Theye have the first place Redwings down 3-1, but ended up losing in 7 games.
Remember that buy 2 season tickets get a 3rd one free earlier? Wel, with the start of the 92-93 seaso, the team expected those fans to now pay for that 3rd ticket. Many either dropped the 3rd ticket or dropped all of them entirely. AGAIN attendance plummeted.
With no help from the local leaders and fans staying away AGAIN. The NHL let Norm move the team to Dallas.
The real blame for the North Stars moving isn't Norm Green. That guy tried. The real blame goes to Metropolitan Sports Commission, the fans for abandoning the team 3 different times, and.....yes, Lou Nanne. That guy was an awful GM. Even Sports Illustrated ran an article called "Falling Stars" about the demise of the North Stars from contenders in the early 80s to an afterthought in the NHL and in the Twin Cities.
And if you want more proof of the fair weather fans of the Twin Cities, how about these facts? The Timberwolves original owners, who built the Target Center and also lost ownership of it to the Metropolitan Sports Commission, were going to sell the T-Wolves to a group from New Orleans and the team would move there after only 5-6 seasons in Minneapolis. At the last hour, a local owner was found.
Also, the Minnesota Twins were going to be contracted in the early 2000s. The little independent baseball team, The Saint Paul Saints, were out drawing the Twins. Thankfully a talented young core of talent came up, and the team started playing great, and the fans came back. Not to mention the failure of the Minnesota Moose in the IHL, lasting only 2 seasons after the North Stars left town.
they should rebrand the wild to the north stars and add the word lone onto dallas stars and return all the north stars history to minnesota
That's a great idea but will it happen possibly never.
Dallas owns the name North Stars.
Nah let Dallas keep the Stars.. I'm not too in love with the name "Wild" but in my opinion the Logo and Jerseys are some of the best in the league!
*Disclaimer I'm a Penguins fan
@@mamiller1980 The NHL owns the North Stars trademark.
@@mamiller1980 Who gives a shit take it back
This move was stupid on so many levels. How the hell do you reject moving to the new, modern Target Center in downtown Minneapolis? That shows his underlying goals weren't to keep the the North Stars in Minnesota. Any other owner would have jumped at that opportunity. The original Jets, the Nordiques, and the Whalers wished they could have had that kind of option.
Ты прав друг
Not to defend, Norm Green, but, the cola wars (between Coke and Pepsi) played a role.
@@crosstatt7441 I don’t think that played as much of a factor as some people believe. The North Stars switched to Coca-Cola the last couple of years they played at the Met Center.
I believe the biggest reasons were his desire for a new arena (which the Twin Cities weren’t willing to give him) and the allegations of sexual misconduct that made him leave town.
Yes, Dan Bratten, you are correct, and you recall many more details than me.
Except, I would not call out Nanne for any of it.
I remember the 1991 playoffs when Bobby Smith got hot and the North Stars defeated the Edmonton Oilers in the playoffs to get to the Cup Finals. That arena was buzzing then.
Could care less that this is about the North Stars Hockey Team. My favorite part.....Clips of my all time favorite KSTP anchor Angela Astore.
No crossstat, Green would not be an easy guy to like, or absolve.
But, city fathers acted like it was no big deal.
The STrib did not consider them of paramount importance either. Rachael Blount was good, but the only staff member that cared after John Gilbert was reassigned to cars.
I remember a similar situation in Cleveland. The fans cared about the OG Browns, but sadly, the stadium was an issue and Mayor Mike White didn’t act on it fast enough.
This was like the Clash should I stay or should I go
Mom Was TWELVE a years old when this aired!
they just cut everyone off after like 3 words . priceless
This seems to have happened so quickly. I was getting ready to look at the 1993-1994 schedule around October and I was like "Why the hell does it say Dallas on here?" lol
It didn't really sink in until October when their was no hockey team in.MN starting a new season
I sure hope that Norm flew privately, because I think he could certainly be a flight risk.
Last game at Met Center Blackhawks 3 North Stars 2 4 13 93
I was there and still have my ticket stubs and parking pass.
This turned into a media circus
I would hate to know the feeling of loosing my sports team but I'm so glad that this team moved to Dallas because it brought a wonderful franchise and a ton of amazing experiences to North Texas!
Fuck Texas
Norm Green still sucks!
Attendance wasn't good enough supposedly
The last few years they had 88% and 91% capacity in a 15k building. So it's not like they were having Florida Panthers type attendance. And there was a newer, more modern arena available in the Target Center in Minneapolis. They would have gladly taken the team, but stupid Norm apparently didn't want to share with the T-Wolves. Any other owner would have jumped at the opportunity to move their team to new modern arena as opposed to moving, even if it meant sharing with an NBA team. Teams were already doing this in older buildings.
@@pomerlain8924Why wouldn’t Norm want to share an arena with the Timberwolves? He seemed to get along with Marv Wolfensen pretty well.
Thank you Minneapolis and Minnesota for giving Dallas the Stars
See ya Normie!
Norm Greed
Norm Green, still the devil.
Couldn't the north stars play at Target center? Then the mess probably wouldn't happen.
One factor that kept that from happening was the cola wars - the Target Center had advertising and pouring rights for Coca-Cola there, whereas the North Stars and the Met Center had Pepsi as their sponsor.
I don't think the cola wars had much to do with it. Norman seemed to be super greedy, had no real ties to Minnesota and his sexual harassment problems are the main factors.
WickedWayz81 the cola wars had alot to do with it as pepsi had a multi million dollar deal with the stars to be their cola product in advertising, they were not going to allow the stars to play in a coke arena without reimbursement of the contract monies which norm didnt have. Additionally target center wasnt going to give norm the box seat revenue which he needed. Lastly st. Paul offered a deal where the wild play not except it wasnt the same building it was the st. Paul civic center, st. Paul had offered to remodel civic center but norm needed a larger cash flow then an now, st. Paul offered a legit deal an norm said no an the NHL all being aware of this allowed to stars to move to expand their reach into the southern us. The NHL could have forced the stars to remain in minnesota and norm to sell the team but they didnt....
Nope
The Civic Center in St Paul in 1993 wasn't really NHL ready
just if anyone cares . i typed al shavers last game / and it brought me here //
this should be on tosh.o //// whos wit me
They call it the State of Hockey. Hilarious. Losers of Hockey Teams and playoff games. That is what it should be called.