WHY Are Splashdown And Reefslider ALWAYS BAD
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Splashdown was one of the best concepts we've ever seen for a special, though also one that's been horrible for its entire time in the series, so why is that?
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I really made this video and then they made another Splashdown LOL
Edit: They did a good job with this one, one day when I do a big special design video i'll talk about it.
i guess we know why they didn’t give reefslider a superjump option
I came back to this vid just to say that. lol
The new splashdown would’ve been so much cooler if, instead of fists, the other explosions were clones and you could swap between them freely to make you harder to shoot down and choose where to land a little.
Nintendo saw this and decided to shut you up xD
@@0mO493 same
I think it'd be excellent if Reefslider could use Drop Roller.
- It makes Drop Roller relevant on more weapons
- It lets those weapons survive after Reefslider
- Drop Roller gives movement buffs too, so it's perfect for following up the explosion
Imagine, you Reefslider, roll away from attacks into position, then use the extra mobility to follow up.
It's not a total fix but it'd help immensely.
That might be really cool and really fun I like it
@@TorayNixthey should do it for all transformation specials tbh
@@asianclicks3368 heh, not really sure about that tho
The other transformation specials doesn’t need that compared to Slider
@@TorayNix just an idea to make drop roller better
Drop roller gives an element of unpredictablability to the special and something to do during the endlag allowing for a seamless transition into gameplay
watch slider get a crazy buff that makes it meta next season !!
I'm not even joking it would be so funny if reefslider and stamp both got crazy mega buffs that instantly made them meta so the meta instantly began to revolve around idk Luneo, L-3 D, Tetras and S-Blast
@@sonicrunn3r895what about ink nouveau
@@JVSTG4L4XY Probably niche for a few maps
@@sonicrunn3r895Wiper go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Given the patch history of this game, I feel like this mythical buff that makes slider meta would be something like a damage radius buff, that makes its explosion so ridiculously large it outranges anything short of an unscoped splat charger.
Never forget early on you could squid roll to survive reef's explosion before they massive buffed the damage to offset the armor. And don't get us started on how it still can't fizzle bombs out.
I have an idea, what if you could jump off of the Reefslider? Unlike detonating early the slider still goes the full distance but you just off and are in the air like after a squid surge
Another idea to add onto this: bailing off early would significantly reduce the explosion radius, sacrificing some of the special’s strength for reliability and safety. This would even help balance Zones cheese - if you want that instant flip, you have to fully commit and risk dying for it.
I also had this idea, was surprised when I saw someone else have the same idea :)
@@xraenon1664 Plus it could also work where you can jump off right before it explodes, it would still be predictable and vulnerable but it would allow for a mix up and dualies can quickly drop to the ground
Well, I'm ready to see the sequel video in a month.
You don’t have to wait long 😅
I really wish reefslider was more mobility focused. Getting to ride a shark for a few seconds while using your main weapon sounds so fun.
I know it was mentioned in the video but there's literally no reason for Reefslider to wait until touching the ground before startup. Even if the special itself needs proper buffs, my number one hope is that this trait is removed (or at the very least, make it so you can complete the startup middair and then go the moment you land)
my guess is that its to prevent players from accessing areas they're not supposed to be able to. if it had any forward momentum when going through the air, it could theoretically get into enemy spawn on some maps, and unlike inkjet or zipcaster, it doesnt have you return to your start position once the special is over, so you could stay in enemy spawn indefinitely.
@@lukehoffman9742 The startup is so long that you probably couldn’t get anywhere anyway though with the flatter verticality (MAYBE you could get somewhere on Flounder idk, still a bit tough to gauge because the spawn snipes are far enough from the heights). Plus my idea of just making it done the startup middair and then only move on landing still stands for what it SHOULD probably do
@@sonicrunn3r895 oh yeah, they 100% should do it that way, wasn't disagreeing with that. i was just speculating on the dev's reasons for not designing the special like that in the first place.
I love reefslider and splashdown so much, it's a shame they are too weak...
It's not weak by any means. It's just too vulnerable. You die more often for using it than kills you may get
@Whodjathink it is weak when the most it can do is predictable and counterable. Damage isn't an issue since they all do that
@@Trattt Which means it's too vulnerable, not really weak. When it works it's oh so nice. The problem is even when it works, you die anyway
It's not weak, you can hit a MASSIVE area at once. It's just that you are extremely vulnerable after the explosion.
Just make it give ink armor after use, or even invulnerability. It's meant to help you go in, but right now it doesn't have any follow up inherent to the special.
I wish Reefslider was faster to activate, it takes a lot of time and I normally get splatted before I can start sliding.
Yeah, making it start before the lines finish appearing would be nice, on top of the obvious necessary nerf of reduced endlag. That'd really be all it needs, but a superjump dive similar to what Splashdown had (For an animation, imagine the Flipper Flopper but its a Reefslider shark) or just the ability to dive off ledges or activate mid-air would be really nice.
Splashdown was never gonna be easy to fix in Splatoon 2 but the best way I could've seen it getting fixed was to have the armour start up faster whilst making the overall special linger in the air about half a second longer so that players might have something to react too.
Slightly Decreases it's Staying in the air time like with the armor so it lands a bit faster like 3-5 frames it Really needs it
@@PenguinXD4 Problem with that is it makes it harder to react and get away from.
I always thought splashdown should work kinda like how super chump does, you activate it in safe land and fire yourself at the enemy. Then, hopefully, dont immediately die. Reefslider was basically that concept, but in execution its that "then dont die" part that fails it... thing is, if you somehow stopped that it becomes unpunishable so, its a tough one.
The fact that Reef can't even slightly turn baffles me, not to mention the heads up it gives the other team by showing a giant light trail to warn everyone you're about to slide in.
Well now they're both here
I think another thing to bring up about Splashdown v Reeflsider is that Splashdown doesn't add to your positioning. Reef takes you to new places. Splashdown would keep you in place while Reef adds to your movement. Really love Reefslider more.
I miss canceling peoples Splashdown's with charger 😔
I don’t
Guys
The stationary training room dummies are right there 💀 Also yeah its back
The ability to super jump into the splashdown was honestly one of the most fun things to do in Splatoon 2. Too bad I got into the game near the end of its life...
Giving the Reefsliderthr splashfoen jump would be pretty cool. Like, the player pulls out the shark and suplexes it into the ground.
I use Reefslider as more of a "get out" Special than a "get in" one, at this point. I don't bother trying to get anyone with the explosion or trying to get into a fight with it, but it does a decent job at letting me *retreat* with the low startup lag - it's not good at fighting, but it does a decent job being invincible while I race for enough cover to regroup.
Taking this opportunity to once again throw out my idea to make reefslider good: just before the slider explodes there is a window where you are able to squid roll in any direction with the same amount of invincibility as before (but also the same amount of lag)
I’ve always said reefslider is the special with the most missed potential. It could be really good if you could survive after it
I mean if the devs are so afraid why not try at least the impact of adding the long overdue bomb-destroyer the Reefslider lacks.
Test that for 1 month and if there are new adjustments needed, do it after.
I think the best way to use reefslider is for sneak attacks. Best case scenario, you see an enemy spreading ink down mid, you hide in some of your own ink until they're within range of your little puddle, and then POP! Literal sharking.
It's crazy, Reefslider went from "this special is INSANE, what am I supposed to do about this?!" to "oh i'm glad they clicked reefslider now i can kill them" in, like... a month's time from the game's launch.
Also, you could've EASILY filled this video with some of the pre-buff Reefslider shenanigans. People used to SQUID ROLL THE EXPLOSION and just shoot the person who used it! And it used to have 60 damage which neutered half of the weapon combos!
Give me ink armor that lasts 2 seconds after the special ends. That way I have 1 second to react or something.
Oliy you my goat for using so much hat in time music
I hate panic buttons that are cheap so I’m glad it’s bad
The AHIT music is very pleasing
An idea I had for Reefslider to have is maybe have an ink armor-esque ability after the explosion, protecting you briefly from being one shot, then after a second of the explosion, the ink armor fades.. Ink armor isn't a thing in three, and it would definitely help with it's survivability afterwards. To clarify, what I mean is that you use reefslider, the explosion happens, then after the explosion your are covered in a ink shield that prevents a couple shots from getting in or a bomb, but could still be bursted down quickly with other specials like stamp or inkjet.
Splashdown suffered from skill gain. It’s been around SO long that most people know how to look at the giant circle of death and just shoot the floating immobile dude in the middle.
I feel like they should just remove the endlag entirely, but to balance it out, they should make its paint like Splashdown and Booyah Bomb, where it doesnt fullt paint the area, to prevent the instant zone flip cheese.
That way, it can still be used to paint the zone, but could be contested, like how you a Booyah Bomb can help flip a zone, but has counterplay.
It would be worse at cheesing zones, but without the endlag, or with significantly reduced endlag, it would be so much better at what its actually meant to do.
When we didn’t know that you could shoot down splashdown in the air that thing was broken
There was a time as well where netcode meant it couldn’t be shot down either too. Sadly that all ended in like 5.0
It wasn't just that people didn't know about it
Originally splashdown could sometimes not be canceled depending on the user's connection
i think they should give you the ability to jump off at any point in the special with splashdown's height while still retaining the i-frames you'd get if you ended the special normally
What if to make reefslider valuable, it worked a bit like curling bomb. The less far it goes, the more the blast radius. And to buff splashdown, just make it jump a lot higher and take a lot longer to finish
Let us turn/redirect the Reefslider OR make the end lag ~10 frames with an extra ~10-20 frames of invincibility BUT you can't shoot your weapon until those 10-20 frames have passed. It allows for a short period of repositioning after the explosion without giving you a free attack while invincible.
I always saw splashdown more as a quick painting tool rather than a way to score kills. I was kinda surprised when they reworked it into Reefslider because it lost a lot of it's instant utility which it already barely had.
A rework of splashdown that I think could work would be “Belly Flop”
You go up in the air for a bit keeping your movement momentum and then flop down on the ground making a shockwave like splashdown, after the special is over you continue your momentum and are put into either swim form instantly or have a short getup animation before your able to shoot. There would be time before the user hit the ground for avoidablility but not so much to make the special useless.
How to fix slider;
Muuuuuch shorter startup time or armor the instant the special is initiated. There is no “track” visible to the enemy team. There is no more end lag. It allows for aggressive plays that don’t end in a basically guaranteed death, while also still being very easily punishable.
Ya know I actually forgot that Tacticooler gives max super jump, so thank you for reminding me about that as an Nzap 85 player.
The devs really need to give Reefslider a substantial buff. Imagine some Reef weapons unlocking their potential/usefulness if the special was good.
I remember when i was scared of reef slider in the direct presentation and not scare at all about Vac what a world
If they made it so you can leave the shark 0.5 seconds before it explodes (during the initial exploding animation) and if they let you keep the invincibility effect in those frames then you would be less vulnerable because you would be able to escape snipers or splash bombs and you would have more options.
What if they made reefslider paint like booyah bomb so it didn’t cheese zones as hard and then gave it another range buff?
speakin of splashdown
Id like it if you could send out the shark by itself without having to ride by holding down the special button or you can ride it by just pressing the stick
I think after it explodes you should instantly superjump back to where you activated it
I think what would be cool is if slider worked like the flipper floppers from salmon run with the ability to dive in and out of the ground. Give it 2-3 jumps with the final being an explosion. (Obviously don't give it the floppers area to paint over). It would provide agency with directional jumps, and would be less predictable.
As a Dapple Dualies Noveau main i rarely see anyone point out that the special most of the time does not work at all
If you hug a corner, the special doesn’t affect you when it explodes. A lot of the time the special will explode and the enemy will stand there like nothing happened, and it doesn’t explode around corners.
That’s the reason I don’t like Reefslider… the end lag is kind of whatever to me, it’s the fact that it feels like the special is a pretty-looking glitch 90% of the time
I always thought the two specials had exact opposite design. Splashdown for some weapons you combo it AFTER using another attack, like a burst bombs into splashdown for vshot, a roller vertical into splashdown, and a torpedo into splashdown for clear dapples. For reefslider, you combo the reefslider damage BEFORE comboing with another attack, like how tetras dodge after activiting reef, some main weapons combo on their own, and undercover supposedly opens up its shield. Unfortunately, this doesnt apply for all weapons, and just some examples no more than the ones i listed.
Here's what I thought could make it more useful:
The outer biggest hitbox bubble now has a toxic mist effect for 60 frames after the explosion, transparent for the teammates, complete smoke screen for the opponents, unable to see past it, like the toxic mist bubble animation, but not transparent
Reef slider user has less end lag, so they can mix it up and swim around the smoke screen, but if opponents predict the paths, they can splat them anyways
In my opinion:
1. Strip its invincibility and make it launch the player in a direction of their choosing when it explodes, about the length of one squelcher dulie slide
2. Add an option for the player to bail with the reefslider still exploding at the end of its path
3. Add a small amount of steering, allowing the player to end up as much as one squelcher dulie slide to the right or left of the path
This would give the player options without a frustrating i-frame issue. The bail option is essentially like throwing stamp, allowing the special to have an effect somewhere other than your player. The launching if you do stay on allows the player to escape bombs while still allowing for counterplay if the opponent knows where you are going. The steering allows the player to target moving players and escape potentially dangerous scenarios like a stamp, crab, or vacuum camping your launch or bail.
I honestly got an idea for Slider:
If you’re in the air after you activate it for ~30f you can explode onto the spot you hopped over.
Would also like to see that also be usable on Super Jump, however with a longer delay after use, so it isn’t completely busted
Splat 4: Reefdown
The flaw: it dies while the explosion
I think it would be cool if you had the option to sacrifice the ability to control where the reef slider stops in exchange for being able to jump off and it propel itself
I always thought it would be cool if you could curve your reefslider pathway and bounce off of walls. That would make for some crazy geometry kills
3:00 patchouli knowledge jumpscare
Honestly as a super casual player who really hated facing Splashdown in 2 and died to it all the time, I genuinely see no problem with them letting reefslider actually live after the explosion. As long as there is startup time where if someone panic uses it mid fight you can still kill them, it should defo be allowed to actually live when it uses it from a safe location to get in, being an entry tool is what it should be!
Easy fix for them: make it so Reefslider can turn and be directed, not on a linear line.
Make it so splashdown instead rises up, and you can direct the splashdown in a limited radius. Also make it so both have better armour, which means give reef some armour.
These specials are satisfying when used right, but they really are only good for single player stuff.
In story mode I got splashdown cancelled once. So I can see how it might be bad against real opponents.
It just needs some endlag shaved off and it’ll be a menace
Looking at Splashdown, if it's SUPPOSED to be a panic button, _It should function as a panic button,_ and the opponent's counterplay should result in "okay I'm not dead," likely by being "get out of the way." Reefslider doesn't really seem like it's supposed to be a panic button, though. Some ability to move but not shoot after it ends might reduce it's predictability, like jumping off of it in some kind of roll instead of just standing around after the explosion.
I think when reef slider ends there should be a mini shark as a shield in front of you which has 200 health
We are about to see the battle of Garbage vs Garbage on Dec 1
What if Slider gave you Ink Armor for a few seconds?
They should've just made a special where you explode instantly, but also splats you in the process.
I call it "Kamikaze."
Yeah i can't think of a better name.
I think it would be cool if at the end you did a wheelie and backflipped off of it so you'd be less predictable
So basically their biggest issues is that they're designed like displacement specials except thay take up a player. That's the only issue. If Reefslider was a remote-detonated Junkrat wheel it would be 200% better.
I thought of an idea for reef slider when used in the air you would jump down similar to splashdown except the hight would be random each time and a realistic limit. Also you would use the shark as the bomb like thing and it would also act as a sheild and when popped the player would do regular splashdown continued from where they started when having the shark.
Also when used on ground its the same thing lol
I kinda want the "rails" to be invisible. Wonder how that would change it.
Based hat in time music
I think the player should leap off the reefslider at some point in the process. Not even necessarily in a recall way, make it more freeform and turn reef into a movement and utlility tool as well as an offensive one. This also allows you to leap forward rather than just backwards or away.
Honestly give reefslider the splash down super jump option, let the player bail after a certain point, and give it a little steer-ability so it's path isn't as predictable.
Reefslider and Splashdown may suck but they'll never fail to be some of the most fun specials
Video 4 of commenting on Chara videos till brella gets fixed
How cool would it be for the reef slider user to do a flip off of the reef slider after it explodes in any forward direction. Keep momentum and less predictability plus sick as hell
reefslider would be fun imo if it had no protection through the whole thing but you get jumped back to where you launched it from at the end like zipcaster, like the bike explosion shoots you backward.
the ultimate buff for reefslider: first of all no eng-lag, and a command that let you stay there after the explosion and with no lag and with the invencibility frames or a recall jump back to the start point, even a cancel option for the recall jumpo would be interesting so imagine in mid air you could start shooting or dodge roll in mid air with dualies, would make this special less garbage
I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again: they could've salvaged splashdown.
I think the key oversight the devs made with splashdown (one that they continue to make to this day) is that it was designed around turf war. In turf war it was often pretty easy to get the splashdown off without getting canceled, why is that? It's cause there, players are all spread across the map, the only person nearby is often the one you were aiming to use splashdown against, and by timing the special well you have options as the splashdown user to catch them off-guard and minimize their chances of canceling it.
But then in ranked where both teams are centered around the objective, all of that goes out the window as there's now up to 4 players close enough to splashdown cancel. I believe all splashdown needed to be good was armor that shielded it against players who were outside of the splashdown radius: make it where the only way to do the counterplay is to risk getting killed if you fail. So many of those splashdown clips were ones where a charger sniped it from across the map, and IMO the splashdown should've had armor to shield it from those players, only being vulnerable from below. Something like that wouldve given it the safety it needed while not affecting turf war or lower level play (if you're far away from the splashdown it doesn't hurt that you can't cancel it), but because it was fine enough in turf war it never got a buff like that.
Reefslider I'm still pretty iffy on. I feel the counterplay of punishing the endlag was always inherently less interesting than reefslider cancels, and so there's less than can be done to balance it. I think you're way underestimating how annoying the special would be if that endlag just wasn't there (it's already pretty frustrating at lower levels and again, that's the only counterplay option available to punish this otherwise invincible entry tool). But one idea I heard that I do like is to specifically reduce endlag when you travel the full distance. The further the reefslider goes, the more time you have to react and get out of the way, so in that situation at least I think it's entirely fair to remove most or all of the endlag. And it would also give more strategy to using the special (do I detonate early and go for the kill but risk getting punished, or go the full distance for a safer exit but not splat anyone?)
Buff idea here what if at the end of the slider you got drop roller effects so pick a direction and you roll to get out of the firing range
its such a shame bc i LOVED reefslider when i just started in splatoon 3 (same same with splashdown in the story mode) but the better i get at the game the less and less i can use it :(
reef slider would be cool if you could hop off of it early but now it only blows up on impact with a wall/player
I make sur to always use my sub weapon before activation(torpedo on the dapples 👌🏿is chef kiss) or using it by suprise from high ground can help
Fun fact: Undercover meshes decently well with Reefslider. The massive hitbox gives a decent combo if you have good aim, and and the ability to shield yourself after the explosion is nice. The problem is that it’s Undercover: by the time you shoot, you’re dead.
Here's how I would fix reefslider: Allow you to transform into a squid immediately upon the explosion. It wouldn't stop the problem entirely, but it'd give the slider many more options rather than just dying right afterwards because they used their special.
Yeah that’s exactly what everyone wants: the removal of the endlag
It''s more of a QoL change than a buff that would save the special, but I would like for Slider to gain quick descent if activated in the air, similar to a dualie's air dodge roll. Whatever else is wrong with this special, there is nothing worse feeling than activating Slider in the air or falling off a ledge during start-up.
I think Reefslider should be able to jump so it can clear small gaps and tiny walls. The ZL button could be used for that. Pressing and holding ZL causes the slider to submerge (indicator that it will jump) and releasing ZL makes you jump out of the ink and explode on impact.
Wish they just replaced Reefslider with Baller, that one was just fun to use, and looked cute to me.
My wife loves splashdown. It's her favorite special.
hey what if after the reefslider pops, you jump in the air as the same height as splashdown, with no end lag? Makes you use your weapon mid air or jump away from enemies
Give me the option to jump off the slider and use it as a linear projectile. As trade off the explosion radius is reduced when used as projetile. This creates a 50 50 wheather you stay behind and distract with projectile slider or get behind enemy lines by staying on
Heck if they had even not had most of the splashdown buffs and just given the user some extra hp, like just enough to not get 1 shot, then splashdown would have been much better
Maybe allow it to turn slightly to the left and right if there was something in the way that you want to go around
The easiest fix is to just let the rider get off the shark or change direction by holding the R stick in either direction
Dying afterwards just sucks and even when you use it as a getaway option you’ll still die
The special could have unique but strong situational uses but because Nintendo like simple bad specials then complex good ones
We’ll most likely see slider as the worst special forever
I think a nice buff they can give it is simply let you move slightly left or right like they did for ultra stamp, its too easy to predict and counter but i feel if you could move it, itll be less predictable and you have a stronger chance of getting a kill, they can even keep the movement marker it has and show it moving to help try to avoid it still
lol my comment was featured on this video XD. I still never found myself getting cancelled all too often in the game anyway. Reefslider on the other hand….😢
I still think splashdown could be salvaged if you could use it directly next to an opponent to grab them and slam them on the ground.
Take away Reefslider's telegraphed pathing for the opposing team. Reefslider's top issue is its extreme predictability, and taking away the onscreen pathing for the opposing team (or even overall) will let Reefslider create more of a threat and demand better reactions.
i don’t get how they’re afraid to buff reef when things like zooka and crab and inkjet are so overtuned
Would it be a good buff if you could swim and save slider like you can with ultra stamp?
You can kill the Reefslider at startup. Can do this pretty easily with Hydra but you need to be fast to pull it off in general. It’s usually easier killing the Reefslider after.