For anyone that fails the movement test where the head should not move in a diagonal, i found moving the head with one finger side to side allowed me to see which cable was not moving and easily pin point the bad bearing. I also used a sharpie to apply a mark to the ab drive bearings. After replacing that bearing the movement was nice and smooth like in this video. Thanks for the very helpful video!
You saved me a lot of hassles and frustration - kudos to the Voron discord community for pointing me here. Basically I put the belts on incorrectly (no equal length) and then completed assembly of the printer. I noticed that I could not get the x limit switch to engage due to the assembly being racked. I removed the belts (and ordered new ones since I already cut these (derp)) and was able to un-rack it. Now the carriage is truly square and moves without binding.
Thanks for the video. Ran my belts last night and was a little concerned about the force needed to move things around afterwards. Figured it was just the drag from the motors as i did not feel anything strange. Just a steady resistance.
This helped me diagnose my probe issiues. i was wondering why i get such horrible data to the rear of my bed and i checked and i had about 5mm of racking and some very stick rails to the rear. Thanks a lot
Fantastic video! I've been stalled out on my Voron partially due to gantry issues. This will help with some of the problems I've noticed in my build immensely!
@@yvesinformel221 When I'm actively doing assembly work I practically live there. @ Nero 3dp I just finished fixing my terribly racked gantry prior to wiring/tool head attachment. I'm so thankful for the timing of your video. You saved me a LOT of time, effort and cursing. The documentation for building a Voron is great, the Discord is insanely helpful, but seeing how certain things should be done is priceless.
Hi Nero 3dp! One thing I think could have been added is a demonstration of the printer with belts that are too tight and too loose, so us noobies can more easily diagnose those things. Love the help and explanations though. Thanks!
Thanks for posting this - was wondering how to fix for this! I also used another c-beam ( 40x80 ). I used the c-beam to level relative to the build plate and then again up top with a square to get things leveled out right. I got a lean to the back of the frame due to the weight of my stepper motors - it pulled in a dip to the back at to upper/lower extremes of the z axis. ( The c-beam was for consistent height, 80mm from plate on front back and then resting in the middle while I loosened/tightened everything )
Belting is kind of hard to show on video, i did do it on my last livestream if you want to watch me do it on camera, if you download the CAD file it shows the full belt routing path, its pretty simple and more streamlined than previous revisions of the v2.
a lot of this can be done during final gantry assembly, when you put everything together - make sure it moves freely up and down . And if it isn't - fix it then on your bench. That's before you even mount it on Z belts.
Seems like a proper mechanishm. My only issue with all these thin cube frames is that they are too big compared to extrusion size and rigidity. I am pretty sure that diagonal (Z-form) reinforcements, possibly not just one per side but at least at the middle of each frame rail too would help a lot in wobbling. Theoretically the Y carriage would need that too (to prevent flexing by heavy X accellerations), but that's hard to install in this form. Maybe something like a strut brace in a car.
Thank you for the video. You say the best way to determine belt tension is thorough trial and error by printing. What signs do you see that indicate to lose and too tight.
If you have owned a motorbike with a belt drive you know how to tension it, yes there is such a thing as a belt tensioner that shows you how much tension a belt has at a set distance from neutral relaxed position. In fact a ruler plus a small portable weight gauge would do the job. Just make sure you measure at true centre.
I wish you would have put the definition of racking upfront. This is something I've seen in many things - they describe how to fix it without talking about what it is first. This is how I can get on the same page. Nonetheless I am thankful that you did define it at all.
if your voron randomly starts crashing while homing, check this. contemplating threadlockering all the things since EVERY screw on my printer was loose. after ~500hours
I got here searching for COREXY printers to build and watched a number of your videos. But I was surprised to learn that the entire XY mechanism was on a gantry as opposed to the other designs where the print bed moved. I watched the videos as RUclips sequenced then and finally got to why you needed 4 Z motors with such a huge gear reduction. I am very curious as to the advantages. Could you please direct me to the discussion or analysis of the design decision to move the entire gantry instead of the bed. This looks like a very robust design.
Previously, the moving gantry had a big advantage of auto bed trimming, nowdays with 3-axis bed leveling, you can also perform bed trimming. Most of the community agrees that the moving gantry design is more of a really cool gimmick than a real advantage, the moving weight of the gantry brings so many problems and complexity that most of the time it does not pay itself. Another advantage that some people claims that the voron 2.4 has, it's that it's center of gravity, on small prints is lower, which allows for more speed.
At 5:32 if one of the rails works smooth and the other not than you will nbot be able to push in the middle and slide on both sides smooth. So you will also have a gab at one side.
I am glade to see that you are also using a bearing stack instead of the GT20 6mm idlers. Did you find that the belt runs at a slight angle? I wonder if the extra width from the stack (not having teeth) can be the origin of this angle?
Great video. As always thanks for the great info. I am still having a racking issue that i cant fix with loosening the gantry. I have gone so far as to remove the belts all together and loosen the gantry rail bolts and the carriages. I hold the gantry lightly against the front rails and snug all screws then on another pass tighten. When i let go, the left front side pulls back. What can i do to fix this?
Is the "springiness" in 6:06 (right side) acceptable? I'm assembling my gantry from scratch and I'm not able to get rid of that (after rebuilding the gantry 4 times), it's always in one of the corners.
You want to minimize the racking as much as possible, was kinda hard todo when i was recording but i went through and re-adjusted the belt tension to make sure both XY joints where touching the back at the same time
This is by far the hardest and worst part of building a voron. I have never found this actually possible. Unlike what he describes in this video, on every printer I have built, on my 5th, the problem isn't that the problem exists in the opposite corners, it's always the same side. Doesn't matter how square the frame is. I have only used LDO extrusions, so maybe the problem lies there, not sure. But on all 5 printers, 2 tridents, 1 v0, 2 v2.4's, you can push and pull on the same side, front/back. I'm sure it's 100% me, maybe on arm is longer than the other so I can't get the frame straight, or maybe one eye is much stronger than the other... who knows. But I have found it to be 100% impossible to actually rack the frame, regardless of not having any binding, being perfectly level, squaring with precise squares, etc.
I noticed that your drag chain radius is very narrow. If you have just used regular cables your breeding a problem. I think even for high flex cables it would be a little bit too much.
20-24awg high strand count silicone insulate wire is being used here and in this case the bend radius is sufficient. We now spec for ptfe insulated wire which is even more suited for this application.
doesn't this method assume the rails are 100% parallel? the Y extrusion could be off parallel but the rails could be parallel to each other or vice versa, the guides help but only so much, make sure the rail it pretty straight on the Y first :) course i don't think the rails could be off more than 1mm.
you pinch them both at one end so that the teeth interlock, then run your fingers down the length until you get to the end you want to cut to. Remember which belt was slightly higher to start with and you're golden
If it’s a duet card it’s basically impossible to reach 27v which is needed to burn that card according to this forum.duet3d.com/topic/7403/moving-the-gantry-damage-the-stepper-drivers-when-powered-off/9
Invest in a dial indicator, a caliper, a tensioner meter (you can get a Frequency meter app for free) to calibrate your 3D printer. "Feels smooth" is very subjective. They all can be obtained for approximately $60 total on AXXXXXXXX, and I think it's a worthy investment (I use them for other purposes as well). $60 bucks is a small investment considering you just bought a $400-500 printer -- but don't forget to add another few hundred bucks to upgrade it. You will need a caliper to measure the accuracy of the calibration print, a dial indicator to level the bed or Z height (I don't really trust the auto leveling sensor, and you can use the dial indicator to verify its accuracy), and frequency meter to tension the belts (where you measure matters so keep it consistent).
this video has errors around the 5:30 mark you really need to crack the mgn blocks loose. if a block is at an angle it will always be off angle. also a tuner app will help with belt tension
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For anyone that fails the movement test where the head should not move in a diagonal, i found moving the head with one finger side to side allowed me to see which cable was not moving and easily pin point the bad bearing. I also used a sharpie to apply a mark to the ab drive bearings. After replacing that bearing the movement was nice and smooth like in this video. Thanks for the very helpful video!
Your videos are so helpful, much deeper dive than most. Thank you!
Again, thank you for this thorough tutorial. Saved me lots of time and nerves.
Such a helpful video. Thanks for all the work you've put into making things simpler!
Your tutorials are invaluable, thank you.
Because of that i want to build also an voron these tutorials are very helpful please do more videos !
This helped when I built my 2.4 3 years ago, and it helped again as I rebuild it. Thanks so much!
Thanks for the video. It really helped me to double check my V2 for racking.
You saved me a lot of hassles and frustration - kudos to the Voron discord community for pointing me here. Basically I put the belts on incorrectly (no equal length) and then completed assembly of the printer. I noticed that I could not get the x limit switch to engage due to the assembly being racked. I removed the belts (and ordered new ones since I already cut these (derp)) and was able to un-rack it. Now the carriage is truly square and moves without binding.
Thank you so much for this, it helps me find some issues on my mount (while I'm waiting for the other parts).
Good pace and great detail - nice work
Thanks for the video. Ran my belts last night and was a little concerned about the force needed to move things around afterwards. Figured it was just the drag from the motors as i did not feel anything strange. Just a steady resistance.
This helped me diagnose my probe issiues. i was wondering why i get such horrible data to the rear of my bed and i checked and i had about 5mm of racking and some very stick rails to the rear. Thanks a lot
Very useful info for any CoreXY build! Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Fantastic video. I'm so happy I saw this before I got to this stage :)
Terrific tutorial. Hope this channel grows.
it did
Fantastic video! I've been stalled out on my Voron partially due to gantry issues. This will help with some of the problems I've noticed in my build immensely!
You know the best place to get help on your Voron is to get to the voron discord
@@yvesinformel221 When I'm actively doing assembly work I practically live there.
@
Nero 3dp I just finished fixing my terribly racked gantry prior to wiring/tool head attachment. I'm so thankful for the timing of your video. You saved me a LOT of time, effort and cursing. The documentation for building a Voron is great, the Discord is insanely helpful, but seeing how certain things should be done is priceless.
Hi Nero 3dp! One thing I think could have been added is a demonstration of the printer with belts that are too tight and too loose, so us noobies can more easily diagnose those things. Love the help and explanations though. Thanks!
Thanks for posting this - was wondering how to fix for this!
I also used another c-beam ( 40x80 ). I used the c-beam to level relative to the build plate and then again up top with a square to get things leveled out right. I got a lean to the back of the frame due to the weight of my stepper motors - it pulled in a dip to the back at to upper/lower extremes of the z axis. ( The c-beam was for consistent height, 80mm from plate on front back and then resting in the middle while I loosened/tightened everything )
Watched this a year ago. Glad I stumbled across it again now that I’m building my 2.4.
appreciate the video this was able to help get my trident gantry deracked in 10 minutes
Very valuable. Getting ready for my build. Would love to see a video on installing the belts and how they are routed in more detail 🙂
Belting is kind of hard to show on video, i did do it on my last livestream if you want to watch me do it on camera, if you download the CAD file it shows the full belt routing path, its pretty simple and more streamlined than previous revisions of the v2.
Worked great. Thanks Nero!
Awesome guide! Thanks!
i am at this part in the guide an was like wha? This is exactly what i needed thanks!
Oh my, I wish there was a tutorial like this one when I was building my 2.2 😅
a lot of this can be done during final gantry assembly, when you put everything together - make sure it moves freely up and down . And if it isn't - fix it then on your bench. That's before you even mount it on Z belts.
I wished you had produce that video before I rebelted my Voron, I guess I can loosen my A/B belt and do that anyway.
really good info (from (informel)
yup, simply detach the belts from the x carriage and loosen them and you can
Seems like a proper mechanishm.
My only issue with all these thin cube frames is that they are too big compared to extrusion size and rigidity. I am pretty sure that diagonal (Z-form) reinforcements, possibly not just one per side but at least at the middle of each frame rail too would help a lot in wobbling. Theoretically the Y carriage would need that too (to prevent flexing by heavy X accellerations), but that's hard to install in this form. Maybe something like a strut brace in a car.
Once you install side panels they'll make the frame more rigid.
Thank you for the video. You say the best way to determine belt tension is thorough trial and error by printing. What signs do you see that indicate to lose and too tight.
Great vid thanks
If you have owned a motorbike with a belt drive you know how to tension it, yes there is such a thing as a belt tensioner that shows you how much tension a belt has at a set distance from neutral relaxed position. In fact a ruler plus a small portable weight gauge would do the job. Just make sure you measure at true centre.
I wish you would have put the definition of racking upfront. This is something I've seen in many things - they describe how to fix it without talking about what it is first. This is how I can get on the same page. Nonetheless I am thankful that you did define it at all.
Thanks!
Fish weighing scales are your friend to check belt tension equality.
if your voron randomly starts crashing while homing, check this. contemplating threadlockering all the things since EVERY screw on my printer was loose. after ~500hours
I got here searching for COREXY printers to build and watched a number of your videos. But I was surprised to learn that the entire XY mechanism was on a gantry as opposed to the other designs where the print bed moved. I watched the videos as RUclips sequenced then and finally got to why you needed 4 Z motors with such a huge gear reduction. I am very curious as to the advantages. Could you please direct me to the discussion or analysis of the design decision to move the entire gantry instead of the bed. This looks like a very robust design.
Previously, the moving gantry had a big advantage of auto bed trimming, nowdays with 3-axis bed leveling, you can also perform bed trimming.
Most of the community agrees that the moving gantry design is more of a really cool gimmick than a real advantage, the moving weight of the gantry brings so many problems and complexity that most of the time it does not pay itself.
Another advantage that some people claims that the voron 2.4 has, it's that it's center of gravity, on small prints is lower, which allows for more speed.
Subscribed 👍
My gantry moves like butter now.
At 5:32 if one of the rails works smooth and the other not than you will nbot be able to push in the middle and slide on both sides smooth. So you will also have a gab at one side.
I am glade to see that you are also using a bearing stack instead of the GT20 6mm idlers. Did you find that the belt runs at a slight angle? I wonder if the extra width from the stack (not having teeth) can be the origin of this angle?
The size difference is so small it barely affects anything in a noticeable way
Question: Why does it seam controller boards never have back-current protection? Seems simple with the addition of diodes to the design.
Great video. As always thanks for the great info. I am still having a racking issue that i cant fix with loosening the gantry. I have gone so far as to remove the belts all together and loosen the gantry rail bolts and the carriages. I hold the gantry lightly against the front rails and snug all screws then on another pass tighten. When i let go, the left front side pulls back. What can i do to fix this?
Ensure the frame and everything is square. Sounds like.something isnt in the right spot
is it acceptable that your front idlers are moving? i can see them moving in your video when moving the x from back to front
Good to see I’m not the only one with shake! My nick name is Diesel Twitch! I call it my “built-in impact gun”
Perfect timing - I’m installing the gantry into the frame tomorrow.
Anything special we should do / look for regarding Z racking?
Not really as the trammin routine takes care of that
Yep, one of the best parts about the V2, the printer takes care of that itself.
So the most important thing is that the 20x20 cuts are precise
I wish I would have found this video a couple days ago....
Is the "springiness" in 6:06 (right side) acceptable? I'm assembling my gantry from scratch and I'm not able to get rid of that (after rebuilding the gantry 4 times), it's always in one of the corners.
You want to minimize the racking as much as possible, was kinda hard todo when i was recording but i went through and re-adjusted the belt tension to make sure both XY joints where touching the back at the same time
what type of belts are they link
While you're moving the gantry around de-racking, the Y axis extrusions are flexing and moving the idlers. What is that?
Does racking cause oval shaped circles
I loosen my x rail screws and I get zero movement to tweak. I dunno why I can't even tweak it and u get tons of movement after loosening
how to do this at voron v0 ?
This is by far the hardest and worst part of building a voron. I have never found this actually possible. Unlike what he describes in this video, on every printer I have built, on my 5th, the problem isn't that the problem exists in the opposite corners, it's always the same side. Doesn't matter how square the frame is. I have only used LDO extrusions, so maybe the problem lies there, not sure. But on all 5 printers, 2 tridents, 1 v0, 2 v2.4's, you can push and pull on the same side, front/back. I'm sure it's 100% me, maybe on arm is longer than the other so I can't get the frame straight, or maybe one eye is much stronger than the other... who knows. But I have found it to be 100% impossible to actually rack the frame, regardless of not having any binding, being perfectly level, squaring with precise squares, etc.
I noticed that your drag chain radius is very narrow. If you have just used regular cables your breeding a problem. I think even for high flex cables it would be a little bit too much.
20-24awg high strand count silicone insulate wire is being used here and in this case the bend radius is sufficient. We now spec for ptfe insulated wire which is even more suited for this application.
is this actually precise enough? since we are just aligning by eye here?
Side note: I see your probe is shielded with something, kapton tape? What's there purpose?
Some insulating gold reflective tape, just trying it out to see if it helps any
What is a ballpark figure to build this configuration?
Im $800 deep into mine right now and i dont think im half way yet. But i am building the 350 so a smaller one would be a little cheaper.
What is that bit driver that you're using?
Im using just standard allen keys
@@CanuckCreator 8:15
doesn't this method assume the rails are 100% parallel? the Y extrusion could be off parallel but the rails could be parallel to each other or vice versa, the guides help but only so much, make sure the rail it pretty straight on the Y first :) course i don't think the rails could be off more than 1mm.
I find it funny how people are building large scale printers and then almost never use their potential. Is there a smaller version of this printer?
Yup. See voron design.com. i have a 250mm3 version of this printer already as well as a vzero which is 120mm3
I want to change my cr10 s5 over to this design
What? I can't even get my printer to work how am I supposed to get like that?
Why not use a pulley? Use flange bearings instead
Down to the number of teeth!? How do you count the teeth on a 2 meter belt? 😅
you pinch them both at one end so that the teeth interlock, then run your fingers down the length until you get to the end you want to cut to. Remember which belt was slightly higher to start with and you're golden
If it’s a duet card it’s basically impossible to reach 27v which is needed to burn that card according to this forum.duet3d.com/topic/7403/moving-the-gantry-damage-the-stepper-drivers-when-powered-off/9
If its a duet. I try to keep things as part agnostic as possible. Cant guarantee everyones controller wont be damaged by backcurrent.
Invest in a dial indicator, a caliper, a tensioner meter (you can get a Frequency meter app for free) to calibrate your 3D printer. "Feels smooth" is very subjective. They all can be obtained for approximately $60 total on AXXXXXXXX, and I think it's a worthy investment (I use them for other purposes as well). $60 bucks is a small investment considering you just bought a $400-500 printer -- but don't forget to add another few hundred bucks to upgrade it. You will need a caliper to measure the accuracy of the calibration print, a dial indicator to level the bed or Z height (I don't really trust the auto leveling sensor, and you can use the dial indicator to verify its accuracy), and frequency meter to tension the belts (where you measure matters so keep it consistent).
this video has errors
around the 5:30 mark you really need to crack the mgn blocks loose. if a block is at an angle it will always be off angle. also a tuner app will help with belt tension
me who's struggling to afford 30$ for my printer: interesting.
Trammed not level. 🤦♂️