As a user of the Mosquito hotend (with E3D's NozzleX) in a professional environment, I can honestly say that this combination is the most reliable hotend I have used in over 8 years of printing. It just works, doesn't jam, and is quite compact. I see no issues with the mount of the heat cartridge and sensor, nor the thermal paste. These components are virtually never changed. In fact, I believe that the heat cartridge has an extended life in this hotend because of the superior thermal contact. As for the price...yes it is expensive....but it does work very well and eliminates one of the print quality variables in machine. Should one buy a genuine Slice Engineering Mosquito or offshore clone? - I think it's important for all of us to support the kind of innovation Slice Engineering, E3D, Bondtech and others are bringing to the industry. These companies invest time and money bringing advances to market. In my humble opinion, I think everyone should purchase at least one brand-name product from these companies before considering a clone...
they are waaay overpriced, for its 1/2 price i would buy it without hesitation. dont tell me it woudlnt be profitable... Clones i bought work without problems as well, even magnum version with pla. almost forgot, they dont even include heater, thermistor, pasta or 0.5 dollar fan in the price. Joke.
If it was just double the price of a V6, it would be a solid maybe, but once you factor in heater, thermistor, its over 3.5x a full E3D V6 kit. I'm all for supporting the original, more so for US made, but for $220? To me, that's a getting outside of the prosumer price range for a bare hotend. Even the overpriced Ultimaker print cartridge is half that price... Hopefully Slice can figure out how to cost down manufacture and start getting in to volume production so they can survive past the startup phase.
@@j.g545 You pay for the engineers inventing it, copying it is easier. However, though I won't critizise the price I'll most likely also go with the cheaper one tbh, bc I'm living in a special zone where shipping to is expensive and the company isn't on AliExpress.
J.G paying for good jobs with benefits is expensive. That $220 pays for 1 engineer or machinist at about $22/hr plus benefits for 1 day. It does not cover overhead, materials, machine wear, etc. How good of a job is $22/hr in your area? It’s ok for a machinist here in Ohio, but low for anyone experienced. And it’s way low for an engineer.
You won't regret it, it's an excellent design. Props to slice for their engineering prowess, and triangle labs continues cloning anything and everything fairly well. Also you might consider looking at either the superfly, sherpa mini, or mjolnir printable extruders, they pair very well w/both the mosquito&dragon.
There is one little plus with the Trianglelabs variant vs the Phateus variant. Their use of a V6 "style" heater block does enable better contact with higher wattage heater cartridges. The Phaetus block is 16mm wide, V6 is 20mm. Finding 16mm heater cartridges above 40-50 watt is unicorn teeth. And having a 60-70 watt, 500°C+ capable heater cartridge sticking out near half a centimeter from the block is not a great solution.
for someone who is building a printer from scratch (voron trident) and already understanding multiple concepts , narrowing down on the nozzle has been a task of its own. this video has clarified so many things for me. thank you so much.
I took my stock Ender 3 Pro hotend, replaced the heat break with an all metal titanium version heat break from Spool3D and I replaced the heat block with a nickel plated copper heat block with titanium mounting screws from Spool3D. I have a 32bit motherboard with Marlin 2.0 so I can run PID auto tunes from the LCD menu. It prints CF nylon at 270-280 C perfectly. PLA, PETG, ABS, and PC also works great. Both parts cost less than a Micro Swiss and works much better. My printer maxes out at 315 C because that is the limit of the stock thermistor. Also using Overture hardened steel nozzles. And I use a textured glass bed on solid bed mounts with a BLtouch auto bed leveling probe, and have Z axis gantry support brackets for more rigidity.
Wow, this was one of the best videos I've seen about 3D printing, and it was exactly what I needed to see. These exact 3 choices are what I was considering, and it really helped me choose. Now, to source my choice, and search your other videos for a similar video on extruders.
I don’t agree that much (and therefore i’m really sorry…) I will clarify some details on my opinion. -at first of this tutorial i heard him saying that the three of them are evenly good and they’ve all got pros and cons. Naturally this is what all three manufacturers will appreciate in terms of commercial support of their products. All good until here…. The thing that bothers me is that all of the sudden he started talking less happy about the fact how he experienced working with the V6 and besides that, he out of the blue starts crushing the E3D V6 version that was outdated (while almost in the same price range, witch is utterly ridiculous bs. I bought one for €25,- brand new and never had to pay the amount of money he mentioned approximately €60,- or the exact $70.- quoted) Plus my opinion on the way of attachment to your 3d printer isn’t all that great but in reality not that flawlessly on both the dragon and the mosquito thanks to the design of the 3 very different heatsinks. So comparison of the picture painted was hugely exaggerated by his expertise. You can put just anything online these days apparently, in this case you have been informed wrongly by mounting points. You will have to stick with the amount of space between those two expensive ones and the cheap one for putting it out there boldest (yours truely did not tell us about the details of where we can find them, the amount of them and let alone all the different dimensions for measurements fitting it to the x-axle of our machines. That was not even all that he mentioned, he suddenly had to take the terminology ‘Reprap printer’ wherever you don’t riddle his logics by putting a $70-$200 hotend to a $50 printer with a cheap knock off from the E3D manufacturing company. Thanks for kicking them in the guts again!!! Flow or high flow capacity is the first time he is in the same ballpark as he should be from the get go…. Heatsinks he is also as neutral as he ment to be (hopefully.) Looking back this complete video i strongly suspect him to be sponsored by the dragon or mosquito manufacturing company. I can tell every man or woman that have they’re independent opinion, own mindset and respect for all human beings that Thomas Sanladerer have been so much better and professional in his hundreds of upcoming posts of his experience within the world of 3d printing, that i was a bit harsh on him now, and fully understand his nature of bringing (t-)his message across this time, (he knows just about every other thing about this difficult 3d print topic for real) I forgive him for being preoccupied with the fact that he has forgotten about his position as in being neutral about the brands he mentioned instead of the brand he prefers. Shows every sign of human life in him (I seem to be very human look-a-like as well didn’t i?) If he had the money figure just right i would have never replied that harsh on him. Please let the E3D people also live and breath a little bit. They have revolutionized step 1 upgrading your hotend with a big amount on the V5 didn’t they? V6 was indeed ages ago and was more or less fine tuning the previous versions.
Thomas didn’t make this video (sloppy seconds) so it be, as well as the prices variety of items purchased from each manufacturer and dealerships in the continent difference will fluctuate more than what i was aware of. And yes, the mosquito and dragon hotend performance is not slim compared with the V6 as i suggested (therefore i haven’t been so aware of punctuation, I rarely regret my decisions…so i’m still not sorry because I made a good point with some blurred lines and swapped out 2 different persons completely.
@@raymonschepers994 I don't know what you're trying to get at, exactly. It sorta comes off like you're an employee of E3D, or at least a good friend of one? Or maybe just drunk and celebrating New Year's Eve in the RUclips comment section? I really don't know... Anyhow. The V6 is open source, so the clones are fair game. E3D's new Revo system is not open source, however, though it looks quite innovative and cool. If money were no object, I'd probably be upgrading to those ASAP. Despite my comment on Nero's video that you're ranting under, I changed my stock hotends to TriangleLab V6 with plated copper nozzles. I discovered I actually like the entire V6 ecosystem, due to the open source nature of it. Though I am gonna throw Bondtech CHT nozzles in my printers to boost max flow. Anyhow. Use whatever hotend you want, that's my motto. If you have a beef with Nero or Thomas? or whoever, I really don't care. I still think Nero's video was useful, and clear.
It continually fascinates me that six or seven years later manufacturers have finally caught on to the idea that Anders Olsson had a point with his quick change redesign of the Ultimaker 2 block. Though I'm glad they are because I don't want to live without it after replacing my Ultimakers.
One good reason I might suggest the slice engineering stuff. They respond quickly to inquiries and actually actively help you solve issues. But that was a good comparison for the hot ends.
Slice really put their product out to offer a High end solution for the community, and deserve patent for their hard work. I'd buy, having money helps though
Two changes I'd do to the v6-style heater block is move the heater hole 0.5-1mm away from the bottom (may require an extra clamping screw to offset the added stiffness) for better heat transfer all around and give 1mm more meat behind the thermistor so it isn't so close to having one side exposed to ambient temperature. As for thermistor placement, I think behind the nozzle to monitor filament temperature instead of heater temperature makes the most sense since heater temperature does not account for how much heat melting filament is taking away nor the lag of heat moving between the heater and melt zone. With a thermistor tracking filament temperature, it should be possible to add and calibrate a PID control to regulate temperature against filament feed rate and smooth out nozzle temperature.
Same here w/ trilabs version (slightly different heater block shape, functionally identical however). I couldn't justify spending $150+ on the mosquito to go on a $300 printer; I understand it's impressive engineering, but I'm on a limited fixed income and much as I hate supporting cloners thats what I've had to do. If slice priced it at or just above $100, i would've bought a mosquito instead, but they've got bondtech-esque prices...
Thanks! An excellent review. I share your experience. The setup of the Mosquito and the "clones" as well is very good. Easier nozzle change and excellent heatbreak behaveour.
you probably saved me a lot of money! i was lucky to buy my ender 3 v2 for 189€ . it’s my first printer. comparing what i do and what i get it makes the most sense to go for the dragon. especially if i have to pay 35€ taxes on the mosquito… even though i would love to own one, i can’t get over the fact that it would cost me more than the printer it self . i love their design and their engineering approach!… thanks a lot! a lot of love from germany
having the thermistor where it'll get a temperature reading nearer the filament, and away from the heater will give you a more stable temperature _at the nozzle_. Having the thermistor near the heater will give you a faster response on your temperature graphs, but the real nozzle temp will lag behind the readings of the thermistor. Another more recent example of this is in the Revo, where the thermistor is integrated near the heater. CNCkitchen's measurements of the temperature (with a thermistor in the nozzle) showed a significant delay between when it said it was up to temperature, and when the nozzle temp caught up to the heater temp. He didn't see it as a dealbreaker, but it is definitely worse, and could cause problems in situations where you've got a lot of thermal load, or rapidly changing flow. In higher flow situations, like large nozzles at high speeds, there'll be more temperature gradient, so it'll need the temperature set higher to compensate. The problem is that if you bump it up 10 degrees to compensate, it'll be running extra hot when the loads are light. For example, if your print slows down to do the smokestack on a benchy, the nozzle will get much hotter than it is when it's printing at a higher flow rate earlier in the print.
@@Snooooozel I can not print PLA, it's always clogging after a few mm. I can pull out the filament, cut the last part and put it in manually with no problems. It seems that the filament in the heatsink is enlargening.
@@Snooooozel I found the problem. I was printing to slow (15mm/s) in the first layer, because i had adheasion problems in the past. Now it seems to work.
It is interesting to see the comparisons. I had looked into all of these quite a bit. It was interesting to earn that the originator of the Dragon design was Phaetus. Currently I've been running a clone of the Mosquito (Mellow / NF-Crazy) and found it to be a nice balance of features/cost for my needs.
Can I ask how has the mosquito clone from mellow been after 6 months? I just ordered the ordinary version with the copper block from the same store and am curious if it holds up.
I think a lot of E3D's non-development is in thinking issues are related to the other parts of a 3d printer (ie motion system, slicer settings, etc ). But you outlined very well why those other hotends are better. I'm upgrading my printer's extruder, but after watching your video, I'm also upgrading the hotend (Dragon got me) and designing new mounting.
Its not a "bad" hotend per se. For its price. A good tl sourced one cant be beat. Its just when compared to others its a relatively old design and feature lacking
@9:42 its not the heatsink that stops the creep. Its the heatbrake, completely. I'm using a completely stock CR10s hotend but with the change to a bimetal heatbrake. I can hold the heatsink in my hand while printing. there is no need to waste $150 on a hotend if you are trying to fight heatcreep.
watt/ (meter centigrade) silver 420, copper 380, gold 295, aluminum 220, brass 210, zinc 120, boron nitride solid 182 powder ~ 1/3, stainless steel 27, lead 34, Titanium 20, ceramic 15, and plastics 0.5 The fin efficiency of the block is ~100% which means the temperature of the block is uniform and the response time very very short. The ceramic and steel construction of the heat cartridges and thermistor means there response time is much poorer. So the location of the thermistor makes no difference but the quality of the heat transfer of the heater and thermistor make a lot of difference. The thermal ceramic filled goop is a very poor conductor but better then air. Electrical isolation is not needed so my choice would be a soft metal filler powder purchased or made with the finest file you have; lead, indium, gold in a grease to keep the mess down.
4:11 in this type of application you wouldn't be able to tell very much. If you were overclocking a cpu or trying to change molecular structure via heat then you'd need 100% uniformity in heating. The reality of 3d printing is very little material is used that has a direct must be this temperature setting. Now as I said if we were trying to evenly distribute heat very very precisely across a heat spreader meant to cool CPU or similar micro processors then yes that precision level of thermal paste would be ideal and necessary.
the difference between the hotends is that the pinch clamp on the e3d and dragon hotend puts more metal in contact with the heater, which is like clamping down the clips on your CPU heatsink. With no thermal paste, it'll still work, though the heater will be running hotter to get the block to the same temperature. Within reason, this is fine, because it'll handle running hotter just fine, unliike your cpu. If the heater is at 280 to get the nozzle to 235, who cares It's being regulated at the thermistor, and it's the nozzle temp that matters, not the heater temp. With the slice heater blocks, there's no pinch clamp, so there's almost no contact. If you run that heater without the boron nitride paste, it'll get _much_ hotter while the block is still way too cold. Heat-up times will be long, it'll respond slowly to changes in flow, etc, and the heater will just be stressed by running super hot for no reason. The PC equivalent would be not only running without thermal paste, but also just loosely sitting the heatsink on top of the cpu without the clips to hold it down. Will it still function? Probably, but you're definitely going to see the difference, both in the lifespan of the heaters and in the consistency off temperatures at the nozzle.
It should be noted that standard flow Dragon/Mosquito have higher maximum flow than the standard V6, because of copper and less heat being stolen through the heatbreak.
@@Underp4ntz_Gaming_Channel i'm not even talking about those yet, even standard flow will be able to go a bit faster. It's not enough to use 0.8 nozzle or anything crazy like that, but it's something.
Dragon hotend are now sold in separate parts instead of assembled on Aliexpress and Banggood. Phaetus, the maker of Dragon hotend is also an approved seller on Voron discord channel.
@@bonjipoo Chinese manufacturers don’t care about Intl patents as foreign companies can’t win in Chinese court. It’s like trying to sue Putin in Russia. The reason Dragon or copies were removed from AliExpress is because Ali is traded on NYSE and proportionally owned by US investors. This is also why you have to pay US sales tax when you buy on Aliexpress. Simply put, Chinese will continually clone and sell whatever is profitable. SE maybe able to limit the amount of platform they can sell on. But they can’t stop put an end to clone or copies.
Just a note regarding cost. Slice Mosquito is made in USA. E3D V6 is made in UK. Both companies bear the added cost of labor and development compared to Triangle Labs stolen ideas and low cost chinese labor. I realize this isn't news or even worth considering for many but I felt it should be said.
I tried avoiding this angle in the video for two reasons. One. Politics sucks and two...alot of people really just dont care. Tbf e3d released all the designs for the v6 to the public for free. So if someone else makes one. Thats kinda on them. And while the skeeter and dragon function and look the same. There is zero compatibility between parts. They just use the same sort of idea. Im also not in China. Usa or uk. So it doesnt really bug me where stuff is built.
@@CanuckCreator Nero, I agree on both counts but as an American that spent 25+ years in domestic manufacturing (both as a laborer and an engineer) and also lost my job (as well as 1000 of my coworkers) due to off-shoring, I have a particularly soft spot for supporting local labor and development.
so helpful buddy!! I wish the Tronxy people would get U 2 test their new DD hotends!! even though you R a custom 3dp man!! U R so helpful with these little sit-down's thanks 4 taking the time!!
I found the trick with the V6 is to use a really good PC CPU heat sink compound for the heat break to heat sink. Got rid of all my heat creep issues in an enclosed and heated chamber. Outside of that it's still an old hotend that's kind of run it's course.
The conductivity of the aluminum block is good that the fin efficiency is 100% so the location of the heater or temperature measuring probe doesn't matter. The copper is bonded metallic to the SS tube so the SS tube is thin where it is bonded.. Thus better heat transfer, cooling. The conductivity of the past is poor compared to aluminum or copper and even stainless steel so the heater will run hotter for the same heat input given, shorter life. Compression bond of the clamp causes more contact of metal to metal of the heater that is built for pressure. I take the thin SS heat break because the sooner the plastic sees a cool surface the sooner it starts to cool. The titanium prevents heat conduction but also prevents the plastic from seeing a cool surface. Since it screws into the heat sink that distance is lost. Titanium ring that was clamped against the heat block and heat sink would provide the shortest construction.
Thanks for all the info. I was looking at getting a v6 mainly just because it’s the one I hear about most commonly, but there were a lot of factors I never knew about, especially when it comes to nozzle changes and there’s no way I’d go v6 now.
For me the dragon is the winner, why? i don;t like the thermal paste, it's pointless... the V6 yeah... what you said in the video... i'ts the most annoying thing to swap out nozzles or do other maintenance... Clamping the heater and soft-screwing down the thermister is the best in my opinion. easy and quick without hassle. The dragon its just plug and play for a V6 and performs waaaay better. IMO the grove mount isnt bad... but they should have done it square or honeycomb-like so it cannot rotate... i still wonder why they haven't changed that... And yes get the high-flow versions of these 2 if you want a volcano version. i had some super volcano's and damn most of the heatbreaks bend or snapped off since the heater block is so heavy... So that's why the Dragon is IMO the best since it's just plug and play for v6's and A LOT printers use it. I also got a Copperhead with a grove mount... I hoped it was plug and play but it isnt. AND they made the same mistake as the V6 because it's exact the same as the V6 but nicer looking design. but swapping nozzles... you get the same problem with the V6... you don't know what unscrews... plus they use a bi-metal heat break which is good but even thinner than the V6 heatbreak... They need to fix that... so you can quick swap nozzles. without rotating and damaging the heat-break. So i guess China wins again... with the price and design... but the groove mounts should be square or honeycomb. P.S. they got the Dragon V2 it has a new heatsink design and you can also buy them seperatly.
The heatbreak/heatsink appears to have been beefed up a bit and the part where the filament feeds into the hotend has a taper now to prevent snagging it appears. I dont have my hands on one so i cant do a direct comparison.
If you're installing on a Voron 2.4, it has a mount for the Dragon - github.com/VoronDesign/Voron-2/tree/Voron2.4/STLs/VORON2.4/Gantry/X_Axis/X%20Carriage/Printheads/TriangleLab%20Dragon
With the thermal conductivity or copper, heated through an at-most-an-inch long, fairly beefy continous block - it's fairly unlikely you'll ever see any relevant difference from the locations of the thermistors vs the cartridges. Unless you're pumping gallium through the nozzle at 30mm^3/s instead of plastics.
i like the stock creality hotend design (except the fact that the ptfe goes all the way to the nozzle). in that design the heatbreak isnt structural either theres 2 standoffs. ive always removed the nozzle by just unscrewing it with the wrench without holding the heat block or anything and so far no problems. also had a homing mistake where the nozzle powered through the bed clip when for some reason it homed z and y before it did x (the low profile bed clips the v2 uses are really solid and attatched hard) and that didnt damage the hotend either.
@02:17 Heh... Ordered a Voron 2.4 Kit from FormBot a few days ago and asked them to remove the stock E3D V6 Knockoff ( and the associated price ) that ships with the kit since I was planning on going with the Mosquito Magnum route and the amount I saved were 6.- 😐
Most people print PLA with 0.4mm nozzles, for them, the E3d Lite is the ideal hotend. It's less that $30, shipped to your door in a week, FANTASTIC customer service and quality control and an integrated heatbreak so when they change their nozzle to an 0.8mm for sharts and gargles, that one time, its an easy install.
Huh I use a titanium heatbreak on my V6 but even before that i never had heatcreep issue sin my enclosure. I use a noctua 40x20mm fan. the other toolhead has a 30x10mm fan i think? i forgot honestly. never had issues. tho my enclosure is more around 40c etc. I never properly measured it with the blanket over it just when it's printing inside my closet. I sometimes throw a blanket over it as the enclosure! luckily my ABS panels are coming soon so I can just enclose the actual printer
Late to the party but what about a Triangle Labs Spider (Mosquito clone)? It's a few $'s cheaper than the Dragon and I already have the boron paste. I'm trying to decide. It's going into a Troodon (Voron clone). Thanks
I just looked at the price of the Mosquito... Holy moly what the heck. Most other hot ends are 50 to 100... This thing is 200 bucks.. Thats a big jump.
What's the best way to go about unclogging a dragon heat break/heat sink? I did a board swap and unknowingly had no power to the hotend fan for a lengthy print w/ carbon fiber pla. I took the nozzle off, and it looks like the filament strand (maybe 1" long) melted in place all the way from the bottom to the entrance. Moral of the story, hotend fans are important. Should I just pop the heat block off, grab a torch and needle and go to work, or is there a more elegant method?
You linked the torque wrench you used, but there are models ranging from 0.5 to 6 N/m. Could you please specify the torque version you use for your nozzles?
Hope the one they shipped last week gets through customs, but unclear if they'll ship the two new ones I ordered two days ago. If they don't I guess I'm going V6 if Slice doesn't make a cheaper, and non boron paste version that Voron supports.
Unfortunatly i havent had any hands on experience with the mosquito clones and from what ive seen .some have been great..some have been a complete miss. So for that i wouldn't recommend one over a dragon. At least at this point in time.
Yeah plus they got a clam mount which i really like, instead of the thermal paste hassle and spending way more time replacing parts or even damaging the thermister or cartridge... The clones seem to work great... but the Dragons are more convenient for older printers. just trash your V6 and smack in the Dragon without doing any modifications. And I think they know that and keep the price up BUT they recently got a Dragon V2 [only an upgraded heatsink] which is just the same price as the V1, but so far i know they just replaced v1 with v2 plus you still can buy the older heatsinks.
I think the reason the Dragon is expensive is because of the same reason original E3D equipment is expensive: equipment to machine or cast the parts and quality control cost money. Kinda why I would go with the Dragon still. Not to take away credit from TwoTrees - they got some good stuff going on, pricewise they're mostly right below TL.
So whats better? Dragon or Spider (mosquito clone by trianglelab)? Spider have convenient cooler holes, while dragon dont. Dragon though have more convenient heater and thermistor cartridge places.Whats better?
Spider came out after video was made. Basically same points as mosquito. Honestly comes down to do you want to deal with the paste or not. They both print excelleny
Do you think you could do one of these sorts of videos for direct drive extruder / hotends? I was looking at stuff like the E3D Hemera, BIQU H2, TriangleLabs Matrix and Bondtech LGX FF but I don't know which to get. I was going to use it on a Hypercube Evolution 400x400x400 and constantly swap between 0.4 and 1.2mm nozzles. (I print a lot of simple, structural parts for projects but occasionally need the accuracy of a 0.4)
great vid, thanks! this will help a lot in my soon-to-be v2.4. btw, 27:40 the was absolutely nothing "abject" about any part of your vid, it was perfect ; P
I see you also looked the phaetus dragon hotend as well. I am guessing the Triangle Labs benefits from a stock sock, which means it is will be easier source? I have a TL V6 Volcano hotend and dual drive that I have been looking at installing for a year. Might get the Dragon.
Thank you for this… can you use an E3D x nozzle with the Mosquito? The E3D is 12.5mm overall length, but with a 6mm thread length…. The Slice nozzles are 12.5mm overall, but with a 7mm thread length…
7:05 Can you please explain why a larger melt zone is better? I can see it being a problem - the melted filament residue can affect more of the flow path (leading to more hassle with cleaning, epecially in these fancy hotends... or even complex, expensive parts to replace). On the other hand the advantage can be speed (more contact area between filament and melt zone means filament can move a lot faster). So isn't it at least a tradeoff, not a clear advantage? Care to elaborate on it?
The larger your meltzone is the faster you can print. Putting a bigger nozzle on only gets you so far if your melt Zone isn't big enough for the speed you're trying to print it just clogs and clicks at the extruder you can turn your heat up higher to combat this but the proper way to fix it is get a larger melt zone,that's where a volcano comes in
Hello, What 3d printers would you recommend to print PET-G consistently good and reliable results Volume needed would be (some times) 300x300 XY for the base. Height like 100mm, so nothing crazy there for very high builds Assuming to use the dragon hotend. Some printers that don't break the bank, so probably in the 400usd range maybe allowing up to 500$ Thank you
Hey there. I have a question. Well a few actually. 1st what are yout thoughts on the Phaetus Dragonfly HIC HF vs the Phaetus Rapido, with the ceramic heatchamber, and how would you rate those against the Mosquito, or the Dragon? I am pretty new to 3d Printing, so any insight that helps me decide wich one(s) I want on my Ender 5 plus would be very appreciated! And 2nd: The Hotend I already ordered for starters is the above mentioned Phaetus Dragonfly HIC HF, and I have seen the pics of it show a Bowden tube catcher on the top of the heatsink. Does that mean a) there is a Bowden Tube going down `till kingdom come inside there, like on the stock hotend for the ender 5 plus? and/or b) that I HAVE to use this one with a Bowden extractor system, or can I use it also as direct drive, or what? Also, when they say the amazing silicone sock can take 350C, does that mean the hotend gets weak knees at that temperature too, or could one be really bold and just remove the rubber, and go rawdoggin` some radioactive spider PEEK or whatever with let`s just say 400C. Bonus question: How much of an advantage would a UHF Rapido hotend even be, when everybody preaches to slow down your printspeed if you want nicer prints, and also, I live in a small appartment with neightbors on every side and direction, thin walls too, so I need the thing to be at least not as loud as it is now. Now meaning all is still original so far, but the magnetic flexbed and the 0.6 and 0.8 Nozzles I got right away with the printer. Much more is on the way, like the Phaetus hotend, noctua fans (as a proud austrian, I just had to...) a mobo, a display (goddamn touchscreen needs to go, and yesterday!) but so far none of that is here wich would not matter anywho, b`cuz the mofo of a mobo with it`s 8bit is not doing a thing, besides making me mad!
So you print at 12mm^3/s with a 0.4mm nozzle regularly? I can only push about 4mm^3/s with my stock Ultimaker 2 hot end. I'll be installing a V6 (2.85mm) on it soon to see if it improves
I am not sure you aware of this and I was surprised this wasn't factored into your review, but, the guys that run E3D are much cooler than the other companies. Your welcome...
As a user of the Mosquito hotend (with E3D's NozzleX) in a professional environment, I can honestly say that this combination is the most reliable hotend I have used in over 8 years of printing. It just works, doesn't jam, and is quite compact. I see no issues with the mount of the heat cartridge and sensor, nor the thermal paste. These components are virtually never changed. In fact, I believe that the heat cartridge has an extended life in this hotend because of the superior thermal contact.
As for the price...yes it is expensive....but it does work very well and eliminates one of the print quality variables in machine.
Should one buy a genuine Slice Engineering Mosquito or offshore clone? - I think it's important for all of us to support the kind of innovation Slice Engineering, E3D, Bondtech and others are bringing to the industry. These companies invest time and money bringing advances to market. In my humble opinion, I think everyone should purchase at least one brand-name product from these companies before considering a clone...
they are waaay overpriced, for its 1/2 price i would buy it without hesitation. dont tell me it woudlnt be profitable... Clones i bought work without problems as well, even magnum version with pla. almost forgot, they dont even include heater, thermistor, pasta or 0.5 dollar fan in the price. Joke.
If it was just double the price of a V6, it would be a solid maybe, but once you factor in heater, thermistor, its over 3.5x a full E3D V6 kit.
I'm all for supporting the original, more so for US made, but for $220? To me, that's a getting outside of the prosumer price range for a bare hotend. Even the overpriced Ultimaker print cartridge is half that price...
Hopefully Slice can figure out how to cost down manufacture and start getting in to volume production so they can survive past the startup phase.
@@j.g545 You pay for the engineers inventing it, copying it is easier. However, though I won't critizise the price I'll most likely also go with the cheaper one tbh, bc I'm living in a special zone where shipping to is expensive and the company isn't on AliExpress.
J.G paying for good jobs with benefits is expensive. That $220 pays for 1 engineer or machinist at about $22/hr plus benefits for 1 day. It does not cover overhead, materials, machine wear, etc.
How good of a job is $22/hr in your area? It’s ok for a machinist here in Ohio, but low for anyone experienced. And it’s way low for an engineer.
@@j.g545 You rather pay copy cat artists than the actual people employed putting time, effort and love into a product??
Triangle V6 removed form Ali Cart. Dragon added to Ali cart. Good job the sale hasn't started yet ;)
You won't regret it, it's an excellent design. Props to slice for their engineering prowess, and triangle labs continues cloning anything and everything fairly well. Also you might consider looking at either the superfly, sherpa mini, or mjolnir printable extruders, they pair very well w/both the mosquito&dragon.
There is one little plus with the Trianglelabs variant vs the Phateus variant. Their use of a V6 "style" heater block does enable better contact with higher wattage heater cartridges. The Phaetus block is 16mm wide, V6 is 20mm. Finding 16mm heater cartridges above 40-50 watt is unicorn teeth. And having a 60-70 watt, 500°C+ capable heater cartridge sticking out near half a centimeter from the block is not a great solution.
@@pr0xZen Yea and considering how hot the heater cartridge gets that bit of protrusion is a fire hazard for sure.
for someone who is building a printer from scratch (voron trident) and already understanding multiple concepts , narrowing down on the nozzle has been a task of its own. this video has clarified so many things for me. thank you so much.
I took my stock Ender 3 Pro hotend, replaced the heat break with an all metal titanium version heat break from Spool3D and I replaced the heat block with a nickel plated copper heat block with titanium mounting screws from Spool3D. I have a 32bit motherboard with Marlin 2.0 so I can run PID auto tunes from the LCD menu. It prints CF nylon at 270-280 C perfectly. PLA, PETG, ABS, and PC also works great. Both parts cost less than a Micro Swiss and works much better. My printer maxes out at 315 C because that is the limit of the stock thermistor. Also using Overture hardened steel nozzles.
And I use a textured glass bed on solid bed mounts with a BLtouch auto bed leveling probe, and have Z axis gantry support brackets for more rigidity.
Wow, this was one of the best videos I've seen about 3D printing, and it was exactly what I needed to see. These exact 3 choices are what I was considering, and it really helped me choose. Now, to source my choice, and search your other videos for a similar video on extruders.
I don’t agree that much (and therefore i’m really sorry…) I will clarify some details on my opinion.
-at first of this tutorial i heard him saying that the three of them are evenly good and they’ve all got pros and cons. Naturally this is what all three manufacturers will appreciate in terms of commercial support of their products.
All good until here….
The thing that bothers me is that all of the sudden he started talking less happy about the fact how he experienced working with the V6 and besides that, he out of the blue starts crushing the E3D V6 version that was outdated (while almost in the same price range, witch is utterly ridiculous bs. I bought one for €25,- brand new and never had to pay the amount of money he mentioned approximately €60,- or the exact $70.- quoted)
Plus my opinion on the way of attachment to your 3d printer isn’t all that great but in reality not that flawlessly on both the dragon and the mosquito thanks to the design of the 3 very different heatsinks. So comparison of the picture painted was hugely exaggerated by his expertise. You can put just anything online these days apparently, in this case you have been informed wrongly by mounting points. You will have to stick with the amount of space between those two expensive ones and the cheap one for putting it out there boldest (yours truely did not tell us about the details of where we can find them, the amount of them and let alone all the different dimensions for measurements fitting it to the x-axle of our machines.
That was not even all that he mentioned, he suddenly had to take the terminology ‘Reprap printer’ wherever you don’t riddle his logics by putting a $70-$200 hotend to a $50 printer with a cheap knock off from the E3D manufacturing company. Thanks for kicking them in the guts again!!!
Flow or high flow capacity is the first time he is in the same ballpark as he should be from the get go…. Heatsinks he is also as neutral as he ment to be (hopefully.)
Looking back this complete video i strongly suspect him to be sponsored by the dragon or mosquito manufacturing company. I can tell every man or woman that have they’re independent opinion, own mindset and respect for all human beings that Thomas Sanladerer have been so much better and professional in his hundreds of upcoming posts of his experience within the world of 3d printing, that i was a bit harsh on him now, and fully understand his nature of bringing (t-)his message across this time, (he knows just about every other thing about this difficult 3d print topic for real) I forgive him for being preoccupied with the fact that he has forgotten about his position as in being neutral about the brands he mentioned instead of the brand he prefers. Shows every sign of human life in him (I seem to be very human look-a-like as well didn’t i?)
If he had the money figure just right i would have never replied that harsh on him. Please let the E3D people also live and breath a little bit. They have revolutionized step 1 upgrading your hotend with a big amount on the V5 didn’t they? V6 was indeed ages ago and was more or less fine tuning the previous versions.
Thomas didn’t make this video (sloppy seconds) so it be, as well as the prices variety of items purchased from each manufacturer and dealerships in the continent difference will fluctuate more than what i was aware of. And yes, the mosquito and dragon hotend performance is not slim compared with the V6 as i suggested (therefore i haven’t been so aware of punctuation, I rarely regret my decisions…so i’m still not sorry because I made a good point with some blurred lines and swapped out 2 different persons completely.
@@raymonschepers994 I don't know what you're trying to get at, exactly. It sorta comes off like you're an employee of E3D, or at least a good friend of one? Or maybe just drunk and celebrating New Year's Eve in the RUclips comment section? I really don't know... Anyhow.
The V6 is open source, so the clones are fair game. E3D's new Revo system is not open source, however, though it looks quite innovative and cool. If money were no object, I'd probably be upgrading to those ASAP.
Despite my comment on Nero's video that you're ranting under, I changed my stock hotends to TriangleLab V6 with plated copper nozzles. I discovered I actually like the entire V6 ecosystem, due to the open source nature of it. Though I am gonna throw Bondtech CHT nozzles in my printers to boost max flow.
Anyhow. Use whatever hotend you want, that's my motto. If you have a beef with Nero or Thomas? or whoever, I really don't care. I still think Nero's video was useful, and clear.
It continually fascinates me that six or seven years later manufacturers have finally caught on to the idea that Anders Olsson had a point with his quick change redesign of the Ultimaker 2 block. Though I'm glad they are because I don't want to live without it after replacing my Ultimakers.
V6 nozzles became a standard before his "idea"
One good reason I might suggest the slice engineering stuff. They respond quickly to inquiries and actually actively help you solve issues. But that was a good comparison for the hot ends.
Slice really put their product out to offer a High end solution for the community, and deserve patent for their hard work. I'd buy, having money helps though
Two changes I'd do to the v6-style heater block is move the heater hole 0.5-1mm away from the bottom (may require an extra clamping screw to offset the added stiffness) for better heat transfer all around and give 1mm more meat behind the thermistor so it isn't so close to having one side exposed to ambient temperature. As for thermistor placement, I think behind the nozzle to monitor filament temperature instead of heater temperature makes the most sense since heater temperature does not account for how much heat melting filament is taking away nor the lag of heat moving between the heater and melt zone. With a thermistor tracking filament temperature, it should be possible to add and calibrate a PID control to regulate temperature against filament feed rate and smooth out nozzle temperature.
I have a few hundred hours on my Dragon and had no issues at all. Personally I love it.
Same here w/ trilabs version (slightly different heater block shape, functionally identical however). I couldn't justify spending $150+ on the mosquito to go on a $300 printer; I understand it's impressive engineering, but I'm on a limited fixed income and much as I hate supporting cloners thats what I've had to do. If slice priced it at or just above $100, i would've bought a mosquito instead, but they've got bondtech-esque prices...
Agree 100%, it's time for groove mount and the V6 double-handed nozzle change to go away and the 3D printing community to move forward.
Great job on explaining the differences. Thank you, I've made my decision!
Thanks! An excellent review. I share your experience. The setup of the Mosquito and the "clones" as well is very good. Easier nozzle change and excellent heatbreak behaveour.
An excellent and detailed video that is still helpful years later. Thanks!
you probably saved me a lot of money! i was lucky to buy my ender 3 v2 for 189€ . it’s my first printer. comparing what i do and what i get it makes the most sense to go for the dragon. especially if i have to pay 35€ taxes on the mosquito… even though i would love to own one, i can’t get over the fact that it would cost me more than the printer it self . i love their design and their engineering approach!… thanks a lot! a lot of love from germany
Really good points, very clear explanation. and you didn't pick a favorite from the start of the video. Very nice video, thank you!
having the thermistor where it'll get a temperature reading nearer the filament, and away from the heater will give you a more stable temperature _at the nozzle_.
Having the thermistor near the heater will give you a faster response on your temperature graphs, but the real nozzle temp will lag behind the readings of the thermistor.
Another more recent example of this is in the Revo, where the thermistor is integrated near the heater. CNCkitchen's measurements of the temperature (with a thermistor in the nozzle) showed a significant delay between when it said it was up to temperature, and when the nozzle temp caught up to the heater temp.
He didn't see it as a dealbreaker, but it is definitely worse, and could cause problems in situations where you've got a lot of thermal load, or rapidly changing flow.
In higher flow situations, like large nozzles at high speeds, there'll be more temperature gradient, so it'll need the temperature set higher to compensate. The problem is that if you bump it up 10 degrees to compensate, it'll be running extra hot when the loads are light.
For example, if your print slows down to do the smokestack on a benchy, the nozzle will get much hotter than it is when it's printing at a higher flow rate earlier in the print.
ZERO issues on Dragon since 6-7 months. Changing thermistor or heater on Mosquito? Thank you but no... (plus the cost of sourcing paste)
Using Dragon too, no issues. Printing Pla, Petg, Tpu...
@@Snooooozel I can not print PLA, it's always clogging after a few mm. I can pull out the filament, cut the last part and put it in manually with no problems. It seems that the filament in the heatsink is enlargening.
@@kaptn_kapton to high retract length maybe?
@@Snooooozel I found the problem. I was printing to slow (15mm/s) in the first layer, because i had adheasion problems in the past. Now it seems to work.
It is interesting to see the comparisons. I had looked into all of these quite a bit. It was interesting to earn that the originator of the Dragon design was Phaetus.
Currently I've been running a clone of the Mosquito (Mellow / NF-Crazy) and found it to be a nice balance of features/cost for my needs.
Can I ask how has the mosquito clone from mellow been after 6 months? I just ordered the ordinary version with the copper block from the same store and am curious if it holds up.
@@ZeppFloyd85 no complaints - but haven't been doing much printing
i want one of your nozzle torque wrenches :o i've 3d printed a lot of them but never got accurate numbers
Me, casually eating my cereal at 4am, watching this, while my volcano is heating for abs next to me.
Relatable
love this comment
@@jorgetucson8196 :3
I got Mr Carlson's Lab vibes. Great video
Lol, very much so
I liked this guy’s vibe so much I went and subscribed to Mr Carlson’s Lab 😅
Good information, soothing voice, crisp in-focus video and to top it all off a sexy wrench 👍
I think a lot of E3D's non-development is in thinking issues are related to the other parts of a 3d printer (ie motion system, slicer settings, etc ).
But you outlined very well why those other hotends are better.
I'm upgrading my printer's extruder, but after watching your video, I'm also upgrading the hotend (Dragon got me) and designing new mounting.
I wish the Dragonfly was included in this roundup. It is seriously such a nice hotend.
Dragonfly wasnt around when this video was made. But yes it is a good hotend.
Thanks for the video. You did spend a lot of time trashing V6, most people buy it for cost reasons.
Its not a "bad" hotend per se. For its price. A good tl sourced one cant be beat. Its just when compared to others its a relatively old design and feature lacking
@9:42 its not the heatsink that stops the creep. Its the heatbrake, completely. I'm using a completely stock CR10s hotend but with the change to a bimetal heatbrake. I can hold the heatsink in my hand while printing. there is no need to waste $150 on a hotend if you are trying to fight heatcreep.
I think I've watched this video three times now... This is seriously some good stuff.
watt/ (meter centigrade)
silver 420, copper 380, gold 295, aluminum 220, brass 210, zinc 120, boron nitride solid 182 powder ~ 1/3, stainless steel 27, lead 34, Titanium 20, ceramic 15, and plastics 0.5 The fin efficiency of the block is ~100% which means the temperature of the block is uniform and the response time very very short. The ceramic and steel construction of the heat cartridges and thermistor means there response time is much poorer. So the location of the thermistor makes no difference but the quality of the heat transfer of the heater and thermistor make a lot of difference. The thermal ceramic filled goop is a very poor conductor but better then air. Electrical isolation is not needed so my choice would be a soft metal filler powder purchased or made with the finest file you have; lead, indium, gold in a grease to keep the mess down.
4:11 in this type of application you wouldn't be able to tell very much. If you were overclocking a cpu or trying to change molecular structure via heat then you'd need 100% uniformity in heating. The reality of 3d printing is very little material is used that has a direct must be this temperature setting. Now as I said if we were trying to evenly distribute heat very very precisely across a heat spreader meant to cool CPU or similar micro processors then yes that precision level of thermal paste would be ideal and necessary.
the difference between the hotends is that the pinch clamp on the e3d and dragon hotend puts more metal in contact with the heater, which is like clamping down the clips on your CPU heatsink. With no thermal paste, it'll still work, though the heater will be running hotter to get the block to the same temperature. Within reason, this is fine, because it'll handle running hotter just fine, unliike your cpu. If the heater is at 280 to get the nozzle to 235, who cares It's being regulated at the thermistor, and it's the nozzle temp that matters, not the heater temp.
With the slice heater blocks, there's no pinch clamp, so there's almost no contact. If you run that heater without the boron nitride paste, it'll get _much_ hotter while the block is still way too cold. Heat-up times will be long, it'll respond slowly to changes in flow, etc, and the heater will just be stressed by running super hot for no reason.
The PC equivalent would be not only running without thermal paste, but also just loosely sitting the heatsink on top of the cpu without the clips to hold it down.
Will it still function? Probably, but you're definitely going to see the difference, both in the lifespan of the heaters and in the consistency off temperatures at the nozzle.
This perfectly explains why I hate the groove mount. Plus it makes designs bully. Wish they'd change that already
Where I can get the nozzle torque wrenches ?)
It should be noted that standard flow Dragon/Mosquito have higher maximum flow than the standard V6, because of copper and less heat being stolen through the heatbreak.
Yeah the Hi-Flow / Magnums have the let's say the volcano block sort of integrated .
@@Underp4ntz_Gaming_Channel i'm not even talking about those yet, even standard flow will be able to go a bit faster. It's not enough to use 0.8 nozzle or anything crazy like that, but it's something.
I need that tool you’re using to remove the nozzle. It makes a delightful sound
Nice analysis! Now I can actually make an informed change from the V6.
Groove mounts need to be machined from aluminium. Never had a issue with them. Still super light and helping to cool.
Mosquito magnum user here
For what it's worth, I've pushed mine to 60mm^3/s
Consistently or as a one-off?
So the dragon hot end has been pulled and is no longer for sale. Thanks slice engineering. They’ve exercised their patent in an opensource world.
Dragon hotend are now sold in separate parts instead of assembled on Aliexpress and Banggood. Phaetus, the maker of Dragon hotend is also an approved seller on Voron discord channel.
@@Paul-sk2pc Thanks Paul. Does selling it in parts get around the patent?
@@bonjipoo Chinese manufacturers don’t care about Intl patents as foreign companies can’t win in Chinese court. It’s like trying to sue Putin in Russia.
The reason Dragon or copies were removed from AliExpress is because Ali is traded on NYSE and proportionally owned by US investors. This is also why you have to pay US sales tax when you buy on Aliexpress.
Simply put, Chinese will continually clone and sell whatever is profitable. SE maybe able to limit the amount of platform they can sell on. But they can’t stop put an end to clone or copies.
@@Paul-sk2pc This is a great and detail answer. Makes sense. Many thanks.
Just a note regarding cost. Slice Mosquito is made in USA. E3D V6 is made in UK. Both companies bear the added cost of labor and development compared to Triangle Labs stolen ideas and low cost chinese labor. I realize this isn't news or even worth considering for many but I felt it should be said.
I tried avoiding this angle in the video for two reasons. One. Politics sucks and two...alot of people really just dont care.
Tbf e3d released all the designs for the v6 to the public for free. So if someone else makes one. Thats kinda on them. And while the skeeter and dragon function and look the same. There is zero compatibility between parts. They just use the same sort of idea.
Im also not in China. Usa or uk. So it doesnt really bug me where stuff is built.
@@CanuckCreator
Nero, I agree on both counts but as an American that spent 25+ years in domestic manufacturing (both as a laborer and an engineer) and also lost my job (as well as 1000 of my coworkers) due to off-shoring, I have a particularly soft spot for supporting local labor and development.
@@CanuckCreator You are in Nth America though....common admit it - you re CANNUCK !! You cant hide that accent :-)
so helpful buddy!! I wish the Tronxy people would get U 2 test their new DD hotends!! even though you R a custom 3dp man!! U R so helpful with these little sit-down's thanks 4 taking the time!!
I found the trick with the V6 is to use a really good PC CPU heat sink compound for the heat break to heat sink. Got rid of all my heat creep issues in an enclosed and heated chamber. Outside of that it's still an old hotend that's kind of run it's course.
The conductivity of the aluminum block is good that the fin efficiency is 100% so the location of the heater or temperature measuring probe doesn't matter. The copper is bonded metallic to the SS tube so the SS tube is thin where it is bonded.. Thus better heat transfer, cooling. The conductivity of the past is poor compared to aluminum or copper and even stainless steel so the heater will run hotter for the same heat input given, shorter life. Compression bond of the clamp causes more contact of metal to metal of the heater that is built for pressure. I take the thin SS heat break because the sooner the plastic sees a cool surface the sooner it starts to cool. The titanium prevents heat conduction but also prevents the plastic from seeing a cool surface. Since it screws into the heat sink that distance is lost. Titanium ring that was clamped against the heat block and heat sink would provide the shortest construction.
Thanks for all the info. I was looking at getting a v6 mainly just because it’s the one I hear about most commonly, but there were a lot of factors I never knew about, especially when it comes to nozzle changes and there’s no way I’d go v6 now.
I laughed probably to hard XD "first thing todo when you get your Dragon is, take the screws out and.. Throw this away!" XD love it..
Thanks! Went with the TL Dragon for my to-be v0, now its a waiting game..
The video i was looking for. Thank you!
For me the dragon is the winner, why? i don;t like the thermal paste, it's pointless... the V6 yeah... what you said in the video... i'ts the most annoying thing to swap out nozzles or do other maintenance... Clamping the heater and soft-screwing down the thermister is the best in my opinion. easy and quick without hassle. The dragon its just plug and play for a V6 and performs waaaay better. IMO the grove mount isnt bad... but they should have done it square or honeycomb-like so it cannot rotate... i still wonder why they haven't changed that...
And yes get the high-flow versions of these 2 if you want a volcano version. i had some super volcano's and damn most of the heatbreaks bend or snapped off since the heater block is so heavy...
So that's why the Dragon is IMO the best since it's just plug and play for v6's and A LOT printers use it.
I also got a Copperhead with a grove mount... I hoped it was plug and play but it isnt. AND they made the same mistake as the V6 because it's exact the same as the V6 but nicer looking design. but swapping nozzles... you get the same problem with the V6... you don't know what unscrews... plus they use a bi-metal heat break which is good but even thinner than the V6 heatbreak... They need to fix that... so you can quick swap nozzles. without rotating and damaging the heat-break.
So i guess China wins again... with the price and design... but the groove mounts should be square or honeycomb.
P.S. they got the Dragon V2 it has a new heatsink design and you can also buy them seperatly.
What changed in the V2 version of the dragon?
The heatbreak/heatsink appears to have been beefed up a bit and the part where the filament feeds into the hotend has a taper now to prevent snagging it appears. I dont have my hands on one so i cant do a direct comparison.
Hopefully I get the V2 with the one I just ordered. Any detail when they did the change?
I would really like to get your input on how and what mount to use to install the dragon. The only mounts that I could find are for the grove mounts.
If you're installing on a Voron 2.4, it has a mount for the Dragon - github.com/VoronDesign/Voron-2/tree/Voron2.4/STLs/VORON2.4/Gantry/X_Axis/X%20Carriage/Printheads/TriangleLab%20Dragon
great comprehensive video, thanks man!
Im using the Dragon hotend. I Love it.
Your fingertips are CLEAN.
You should make a new video with all the new heatbreak optiond and new hotends from china! Bi metalic and even ceramic heatbreaks
With the thermal conductivity or copper, heated through an at-most-an-inch long, fairly beefy continous block - it's fairly unlikely you'll ever see any relevant difference from the locations of the thermistors vs the cartridges. Unless you're pumping gallium through the nozzle at 30mm^3/s instead of plastics.
i like the stock creality hotend design (except the fact that the ptfe goes all the way to the nozzle). in that design the heatbreak isnt structural either theres 2 standoffs. ive always removed the nozzle by just unscrewing it with the wrench without holding the heat block or anything and so far no problems. also had a homing mistake where the nozzle powered through the bed clip when for some reason it homed z and y before it did x (the low profile bed clips the v2 uses are really solid and attatched hard) and that didnt damage the hotend either.
Yes , its correct i have "rotaiting e3d " i put some kapton tape, its stop, but using bolts its better
Thank you for such great videos!
Very nice explanation!
Excellent video
Thank you. This helped me learn a lot.
@02:17 Heh... Ordered a Voron 2.4 Kit from FormBot a few days ago and asked them to remove the stock E3D V6 Knockoff ( and the associated price ) that ships with the kit since I was planning on going with the Mosquito Magnum route and the amount I saved were 6.- 😐
Most people print PLA with 0.4mm nozzles, for them, the E3d Lite is the ideal hotend. It's less that $30, shipped to your door in a week, FANTASTIC customer service and quality control and an integrated heatbreak so when they change their nozzle to an 0.8mm for sharts and gargles, that one time, its an easy install.
I use cheap V6's all day. Rarely have issues when its set up well with a fat fan.
Thermal paste seems like a good idea in general. Could we use the boron paste in the other designs?
Yea u can use the paste with any hotend
Huh I use a titanium heatbreak on my V6 but even before that i never had heatcreep issue sin my enclosure. I use a noctua 40x20mm fan. the other toolhead has a 30x10mm fan i think? i forgot honestly. never had issues. tho my enclosure is more around 40c etc. I never properly measured it with the blanket over it just when it's printing inside my closet. I sometimes throw a blanket over it as the enclosure! luckily my ABS panels are coming soon so I can just enclose the actual printer
Any pointers on how to mount the Dragon hotend WITHOUT the adapter (as you suggest) ? Either direct or Bowden? Thanks
Id recommend looking at how its mounted on either the Voron Vzero or afterburner toolhead for example. Its simply screwed to the mount.
Late to the party but what about a Triangle Labs Spider (Mosquito clone)? It's a few $'s cheaper than the Dragon and I already have the boron paste. I'm trying to decide. It's going into a Troodon (Voron clone). Thanks
I just looked at the price of the Mosquito... Holy moly what the heck. Most other hot ends are 50 to 100... This thing is 200 bucks.. Thats a big jump.
What's the best way to go about unclogging a dragon heat break/heat sink? I did a board swap and unknowingly had no power to the hotend fan for a lengthy print w/ carbon fiber pla. I took the nozzle off, and it looks like the filament strand (maybe 1" long) melted in place all the way from the bottom to the entrance. Moral of the story, hotend fans are important.
Should I just pop the heat block off, grab a torch and needle and go to work, or is there a more elegant method?
You linked the torque wrench you used, but there are models ranging from 0.5 to 6 N/m.
Could you please specify the torque version you use for your nozzles?
in case of nozzle tightening it's dangerous to go above 2.5Nm, 1.8 to 2Nm being a good choice.
Dang it; Trianglelab stopped selling the Dragon, world wide, after a complaint from the Mosquito people in the US.
I already have one for my 2.4 build, but I decided to pick up a spare while stock lasts. This could also come in handy if I start another build.
Hope the one they shipped last week gets through customs, but unclear if they'll ship the two new ones I ordered two days ago. If they don't I guess I'm going V6 if Slice doesn't make a cheaper, and non boron paste version that Voron supports.
FWIW i know the dragon is the one you recommend, but you can get mosquito clones from BTT for £30 now, Dragons are still about £55.
Unfortunatly i havent had any hands on experience with the mosquito clones and from what ive seen
.some have been great..some have been a complete miss. So for that i wouldn't recommend one over a dragon. At least at this point in time.
@@CanuckCreator i mean there are a number of reasons i'd personally pick the dragon, i just wanted to let people know.
Yeah plus they got a clam mount which i really like, instead of the thermal paste hassle and spending way more time replacing parts or even damaging the thermister or cartridge... The clones seem to work great... but the Dragons are more convenient for older printers. just trash your V6 and smack in the Dragon without doing any modifications. And I think they know that and keep the price up BUT they recently got a Dragon V2 [only an upgraded heatsink] which is just the same price as the V1, but so far i know they just replaced v1 with v2 plus you still can buy the older heatsinks.
I think the reason the Dragon is expensive is because of the same reason original E3D equipment is expensive: equipment to machine or cast the parts and quality control cost money. Kinda why I would go with the Dragon still.
Not to take away credit from TwoTrees - they got some good stuff going on, pricewise they're mostly right below TL.
I have top triangle lab v6 now, and so impressed by quality so I can slap 20 more $ on top to get dragon and not a mosquito clone.
but can be reused the termistor and heater? that BN look hard to remove.
the groove mount is not that bad if the holding part is also out of metal.
Nero's video: "choosing a hotend"
Me, who has been on the discord server for more than a day: "Dragon."
So whats better? Dragon or Spider (mosquito clone by trianglelab)? Spider have convenient cooler holes, while dragon dont. Dragon though have more convenient heater and thermistor cartridge places.Whats better?
Spider came out after video was made. Basically same points as mosquito. Honestly comes down to do you want to deal with the paste or not. They both print excelleny
To remove the cartrage just heat a little with the printer , abd the remove it😊
Do you think you could do one of these sorts of videos for direct drive extruder / hotends? I was looking at stuff like the E3D Hemera, BIQU H2, TriangleLabs Matrix and Bondtech LGX FF but I don't know which to get. I was going to use it on a Hypercube Evolution 400x400x400 and constantly swap between 0.4 and 1.2mm nozzles. (I print a lot of simple, structural parts for projects but occasionally need the accuracy of a 0.4)
great vid, thanks! this will help a lot in my soon-to-be v2.4. btw, 27:40 the was absolutely nothing "abject" about any part of your vid, it was perfect ; P
When you consider the cost of filament over 1000s of hours of printing, the added cost of the mosquito is moot.
Have you tried a mosquito clone like the NF Crazy?
I have not
Thats a nice and easy nozzle changing tool. Where can i get one?
Great info! Thank you for this. On a side: Is the nozzle wrench your using printable? or was that a purchase?
Its a printable design. Just search torque wrench on thingiverse
Nero 3dp Hi, what torque do you use yours?
I see you also looked the phaetus dragon hotend as well. I am guessing the Triangle Labs benefits from a stock sock, which means it is will be easier source? I have a TL V6 Volcano hotend and dual drive that I have been looking at installing for a year. Might get the Dragon.
13:00 You could say the V6 is screwed. 😉
I'll stick with the V6 Volcano all metal variant, thanks.
Thank you for this… can you use an E3D x nozzle with the Mosquito? The E3D is 12.5mm overall length, but with a 6mm thread length…. The Slice nozzles are 12.5mm overall, but with a 7mm thread length…
Ive used both in both. Just need to adjust z offset
Can i use any of these with the Volcano set up? I like the longer heat section when printing with larger nozzles.
There is a modded variant thats volcano compatible. As is though it does support most dragon and mosquito high flow variants
@@CanuckCreator thank you . I currently have a titan with volcano. Looking to go BMG with new set up but enjoy the volcano block. Thanks for the help
7:05 Can you please explain why a larger melt zone is better? I can see it being a problem - the melted filament residue can affect more of the flow path (leading to more hassle with cleaning, epecially in these fancy hotends... or even complex, expensive parts to replace).
On the other hand the advantage can be speed (more contact area between filament and melt zone means filament can move a lot faster). So isn't it at least a tradeoff, not a clear advantage?
Care to elaborate on it?
The larger your meltzone is the faster you can print. Putting a bigger nozzle on only gets you so far if your melt Zone isn't big enough for the speed you're trying to print it just clogs and clicks at the extruder you can turn your heat up higher to combat this but the proper way to fix it is get a larger melt zone,that's where a volcano comes in
Hello,
What 3d printers would you recommend to print PET-G consistently good and reliable results
Volume needed would be (some times) 300x300 XY for the base. Height like 100mm, so nothing crazy there for very high builds
Assuming to use the dragon hotend.
Some printers that don't break the bank, so probably in the 400usd range maybe allowing up to 500$
Thank you
What about the Spider Hotend from Triangle labs? Looks like Dragon heatblock could be exchanged with the Spider heatblock.
the spider is more a clone of the slice mosquito and has the same mount setup and requirement for thermal paste for the heater cartridge/thermistor
Interesting review
Thanks for sharing👍😀
Which is faster ? Mosquito, SuperVolcano, DyzEnd Pro or some other ??? thank
Hey there. I have a question. Well a few actually. 1st what are yout thoughts on the Phaetus Dragonfly HIC HF vs the Phaetus Rapido, with the ceramic heatchamber, and how would you rate those against the Mosquito, or the Dragon? I am pretty new to 3d Printing, so any insight that helps me decide wich one(s) I want on my Ender 5 plus would be very appreciated!
And 2nd: The Hotend I already ordered for starters is the above mentioned Phaetus Dragonfly HIC HF, and I have seen the pics of it show a Bowden tube catcher on the top of the heatsink. Does that mean a) there is a Bowden Tube going down `till kingdom come inside there, like on the stock hotend for the ender 5 plus? and/or b) that I HAVE to use this one with a Bowden extractor system, or can I use it also as direct drive, or what? Also, when they say the amazing silicone sock can take 350C, does that mean the hotend gets weak knees at that temperature too, or could one be really bold and just remove the rubber, and go rawdoggin` some radioactive spider PEEK or whatever with let`s just say 400C.
Bonus question: How much of an advantage would a UHF Rapido hotend even be, when everybody preaches to slow down your printspeed if you want nicer prints, and also, I live in a small appartment with neightbors on every side and direction, thin walls too, so I need the thing to be at least not as loud as it is now. Now meaning all is still original so far, but the magnetic flexbed and the 0.6 and 0.8 Nozzles I got right away with the printer. Much more is on the way, like the Phaetus hotend, noctua fans (as a proud austrian, I just had to...) a mobo, a display (goddamn touchscreen needs to go, and yesterday!) but so far none of that is here wich would not matter anywho, b`cuz the mofo of a mobo with it`s 8bit is not doing a thing, besides making me mad!
RIP Dragon.
Yeah they are getting harder to find. A real shame.
There's nothing to stop you from using boron nitride thermal paste on other hotends...
Can you review the phaetus rapido?
So you print at 12mm^3/s with a 0.4mm nozzle regularly? I can only push about 4mm^3/s with my stock Ultimaker 2 hot end. I'll be installing a V6 (2.85mm) on it soon to see if it improves
I am not sure you aware of this and I was surprised this wasn't factored into your review, but, the guys that run E3D are much cooler than the other companies. Your welcome...
Well, they don't try to lock everything behind a patent for starters.
2:14 150 dollars just the hotend, you need the nozzle, the heat element and the temp sensor....
Can I have the cable chain link you're using for your Voron? It looks really sturdy. Thanks!
16:15 that isn't a problem with the system it's a material selection issue.