All the nice features of the DIY version is the result of our iteration on the design. The metal versions are designed by whoever is selling them and didn’t have the same dev cycle time as the plastic version. Or any involvement from VORON Design engineers for that matter. So YMMV with those.
@@ygk3d Thank you, I'm just happy to be here. Great analysis on the various versions that sprung up since we released TAP. I didn't even know about the Mellow one. The behavior on it is quite odd, it should have performed on par with printed TAP setup, but there's clearly something not right there.
i just replaced the Chaotic Labs Tap with the Mellow Tap on one of my printers and I have no slop and the accuracy on par with the official printed Tap on my other printer. @ygk3d I would contact Mellow and look at getting the rail replaced.
I've got a barebones one from Mellow on the way too. Going to use the same rail & sensor as i do on my RC8 tap and compare it back to back. Should at least rule out any potential difference from the rails and sensor, and just leave the printed plastic / cnc comparrison.
Great points, altough I want to add two things: With klicky, the microswitch can fail. I had this happen where it was slowly dying on me and I had to change the Z-offset by +0.5mm immediately before starting the print otherwise the nozzle would ram into the bed. The optical switch of Tap is more reliable. Secondly you mentioned that plastic on the tip of the nozzle can affect tap measurements, but I find it to be the other way around. The 600-1000g of force from tap will squish all the plastic off the nozzle while with klicky and the z endstop calibration you have the nozzle probing the pin/microswitch of the z endstop with a lot less force, leaving some plastic on the nozzle and even worse leaving plastic on the pin and after that reading on the housing of the klicky switch then also being off because of the extra plastic on the pin and then the nozzle going in to the bed. I also had this happen.
I have had some oozy petg on the end of the nozzle causing errors with the tap probing, but now I know the cause I just double check before QGL or homing
I think there is an issue with the input shaper measurements on mellow tap tbh, the graph is much lower frequency, I think something else is at play here, possibly belt tension
@@williamluong7743 That's my guess as well. The modal peak dropping down from 65 Hz on X in the stock configuration to 55 Hz on X in the Mellow Tap configuration suggests decreased belt tension -- and the *much* higher frequency of Hz on the Formbot Tap suggests much higher belt tension.
@@williamluong7743 also with the accuracy, I had issues until I tightened the screws holding the optotap sensor, the fastening mechanism is a weakness imo.
That's why it's recommended to start with the inductive probe first off, and mod from there gotta make your own choices, it's also good to remember that voron while yea you can make them go fast due to corexy kinematics, they weren't exactly built with scalability or high speeds in mind, it was created as a machine that you didn't have to service all the time and could run for days on end while remaining clean and quiet, high speeds cause issues with all of the above personally I hate my bambu p1s cuz it's loud af and I can't do much about it, it'll print quick tho and if I need something quick well yea I'll use it but, my trident will take about 25-40% more time to print but even in my room I'll barely hear it over a video
My tap has been on my voron for many hundreds of hours. Smooth PEI and a diamondback nozzle. 4 magnets. No marring or damage to the print surface at this point! I did find the need for a brush to clean the nozzle before tapping. Which required some macro work. Certainly not plug and play, but amazing!
I used klicky before tap. I had too many issues with klicky failing to probe consistently. I switched to tap and never looked back. Tap has been flawless. I would also recommend running KAMP klipper macros with tap as well.
which tap kit did you use? i was thinking of going tap then saw this video. now im having some consistency issues and thinking of tap again but i want to go with the most reliable tap option.
I really liked my BLtouch that came with my Ender 5 plus. It worked great, but once in a while the pin would fail to deploy. I built my Voron with the included induction probe. At the time I wasn't sure what build surface I was going to use so it felt like was constantly having to adjust the Z height. I was reluctant to add TAP and was considering klicky. From what I was reading, TAP was considered the better probe. I heard it was a more complex mod, but it was pretty easy to build and install. It's worked flawlessly since day one. I like the added protection if the nozzle decides to take a dive into the build plate. This was a great video on TAP and the different options available. Since I build my Voron, I've learned so much about designing parts so they don't need supports and using screws to strengthen them. I was surprised the aluminum one had lower acceleration values, but those screws used as stiffeners really are a cool trick!
Thanks for watching. The screw trick is definitely cool. I have been enjoying using heat set inserts in the parts I design. You can learn a lot by building a Voron and observing how they do things.
Does the Klicky with the auto z calibration allow similar plate changes etc? Mine is like bullet proof. I warm the nozzle, clean the nozzle and let it do its thing. Maybe one out of 100 prints something goes wrong. But it’s almost as reliable as anything I have seen from even like Bambulab
I use klicky plus auto z on one trident and Vitali cnc tap on my latest trident, setup, use and repeatability is so much better with my tap machine compared to my klicky one.
The CNCTap's optical sensor could be affected by the surface finish of the metal tab moving through the sensor. Maybe coating the tab in a matte black paint will increases the accuracy?
Overall a nice analysis of the CNC tap. I wish you could have gotten that chaotic one tested too, but I think we have a clear “winner.” For me I prefer Klicky Auto-Z as I am running a much lighter toolhead on my V2 350 to help with accels. Sometimes, plastic is the answer!
Can definitely confirm issues with accuracy on the Mellow Tap. I also had one of the magnets come loose twice already. This one already replaced the Chaoticlab Tap. I'm running a Xol toolhead, so hoping to save a bunch of grams over printed Tap while reaping the benefits of nozzle probing, but it seems like I'll have to bite the bullet and either install a printed Tap, or move back to Klicky. Meanwhile I'm running printed Tap R8 in a 2.4 and Boop beta 4 in a Micron with great accuracy.
How is this in any way better than a strain gauge sensor? It’s more expensive, heavier, bigger, more complex, and less accurate. Save your money and get just about any other solution.
I was second-guessing my choice to go with Klicky on my Trident build until I watched this video. Thank you for the excellent information, I'm sticking with Klicky for now
@@ygk3d Hi Taylor, this was a nicely detailed and well scripted video, well done! have you been able to figure out the problems you were having with Mellow tap, in rigidity and accuracy? And have you been able to test the Chaoticlab V2 and/or the one from Vitalii that is a combination of aluminum and printed parts yet?
@@lukasmatzinger thank you! I gave up on the Mellow tap after making this video. I have both Vitalii Tap and Chaotic Labs v2 on hand. I was planning a follow up to this video, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.
These seem to add a lot of weight to the assembly, and I don't like the reduction in rigidity. Is there a DIY strain gauge sensor? Would that be better?
I really don't believe it's just tap that'll allow any build surface to be used without additional calibrations. I've used bltouch and klicky to determine where it's endstop is and it'll now use the new values to print at without calibration. Example if bed is 0, and I throw on a 4mm thick panel on and it probes it with klicky or bltouch, it'll now lay down first layer at 4.2mm
We have a LONG way to go to make this perfect. Maybe the best way to "tap" the bed is to mount the bed on four load cells. The nozzle would then move down until (say) 500 grams of force was measured. Load cells could be mounted under the bed and on the 2.4 in such a way so as not to raise the bed and use up any of the vertical build volume. The cells cost maybe $10 each. This would allow "tap" probing with any unmodified print head. What about using the accelerometer? Move the. nozzle down slowly and the accelerometer should detect just the normal 1G gravity until contact is made with the build plate and then it should measure a huge upward acceleration. It would work if the response were fast enough. On CNC milling machine we always need to locate the part relative to the machine. They use electrical contact. This would only work for a bare metal build plate. You move the nozzle down until it closes a circuit with the bed. But this means insulating the bed using plastic screws or something and would not work with non-conductive surfaces. Could a sensitive microphone detect nozzle-to-plate contact?
This has got to be the most 'Rube Goldberg' way of probing I've ever seen. The 'extra accuracy and precision' is great as a marketing tag - but when it comes to actual printing, on real world surfaces and print beds - it just doesn't matter. At all. It seems like the tap was designed as an exercise of "because we can" rather than "because it's better and more efficient".
The whole Voron is "because we can"... Otherwise, how can one explain all the complicated candy-like designs looking more like japanese anime, than like a 3D printer :)
tnx a lot. I was about to buy the mellow one because my plastic tap is not that stiff. But now i'll just print the steel reinforced version. BTW, all the tiny draw backs of tap just pale when compared to it's ease of use. I just love it
When you use an optical switch or such like, you need to provide power to it, so 12/24V may matter, the board needs to be designed to accept either or both. The power must be independent of the GPIO that gets triggered by the probe. When you use that mouse button switch (endstop, microswitch), you simply don't run power to it, you just use the internal pullup GPIO wire and ground. The GPIO is going to be 5V or 3.3V whatever the processor IO voltage is. So i think you may have rejected the variant that uses a microswitch prematurely. Furthermore switches of this construction are typically safe to 30V or more, you can see Omron D2F and Kailh GM specs. Very cheap variants such s D2FC and no-names are only tested to 6V continuous operation, but there's not actually a reason 24V would cause a concern when current limited, and they are still typically Hi-Pot type-tested (600V, 1500V). The wording is probably supposed to warn you that if you run your 12/24V to the switch and the GPIO line, instead of ground and GPIO, you're going to instantly damage your processor. But well wrong wiring will damage your processor with any kind of sensor or switch or peripheral.
Can the printed one be used on the formbot 2.4r2 version? When I search for tap on their site its listed under Troodon and not Voron. Does it matter because thats a great price lol?
I doubt I was the first to do this, but I "invented" a material I use in many of my designs. I call it "steel-reinforced PLA". I model a long M3-sized threaded hole in the plastic part. Then after printing I drip some CA glue (super glue) in the hole and thread in a flat-head M3 screw. The screw is simply acting as a steel rod making the part stronger. PLA is usually somewhat brittle but with some steel screws inside it is MUCH stronger. It looks like Formbot does this too. But no glue.
The rigidity of these assembly depend only on the linear rail quality. In a dependable linear rail brand, you can choose at least 2 or 3 quality (smoothness of the ball path) and, most importantly preload value. For example with Misumi you can choose slight clearance (standard movment with no effort), light preload keep rigidity with low efforts (as in a 3D printer for example), and high preload (typical for lathe and Milling machines). Of course if you want smoothness with low effort while keeping precision you need high quality combined with light preload. With preload type, blocks are paired with their rails and you can't exchange them. For reference from their respective catalogs, Misumi precision is at 7µm, original Hiwin is around 40µm and you can imagine the Chineese knockoffs...
Have the Chaoticlab Tap installed on my V 2.4 for couple of months, decision taken after two destroyed extruders while printing ASA/ABS. Today fitted a Buildtak surface as was still facing adhesion problems with those filaments. Guess what? QGL was not successful for several times. Reason? Buildatck got some nice holes, 0.4 diameter of course and several thousands deep, right exactly where the nozzle was probing. Cause of Tap? Yeap....
I have personally not explored nozzle probing because i want to be able to use cheap black print surface sticker (buildtak-like), i don't know what it's made of. Is there a nozzle temperature at which it can be used, where both the nozzle wouldn't damage it too much and the nozzle gunk of PETG and HIPS will be displaced and not affect the probe?
And be less reliable, Piezos have been used and tried for over a decade and were found to fail easily and were unreliable over long periods of use. Tap like devices have been in use on deltas for nearly as long and have proven to be simple and reliable.
@@ygk3d There are multiple companies that supply retro fit piezo electronics in varying disc sizes. As i stated in my other reply these wre normally associated with delta printers with fixed beds.
I'm also curious about this strange info :) maybe there is just another useless LED that will blow off on 24V volts... But yeah, that does not matter :)
This just seems over complicated for what it is trying to achieve and has too many downsides I think. You want your print head to stay as rigid as possible, not having a large movement like that, that is just triggered by a force on the hot end. Strain gauge based probing is better or bed vibration based like Bambu does it has a lot less downsides for the same or better effect.
Thanks for this analysis. TAP is such a intriguing concept. When i first saw it, i thought "oh, that takes away so much complexity from the leveling process, compared to my klicky button-docking-and-parking-procedure. I need to have one". But when i looked at the implementation details: "oh..ok. na thanks. That is way more complex in other ways compared to klicky" the implementation as we have it for now is just too fiddly for my taste. The drawbacks one has to pay compared to klicky are just to expensive. maybe a next iteration will catch me :) Thanks for confirming my unsubstantiated gut feeling and an entertaining video :D
Hello, does anyone have the Voron tap calibration set? I have a problem when starting the print, everything seems to be going well until it finishes calibrating and it tells me that the nozzle temperature is very low... I don't know how to change that... when it finishes calibrating, it raises the temperature so that I can print...thank you.
Voron printhead is already extremely heavy and seriously limits its printspeed. Why would anyone add 100+g to it? 8400 stock or 3800 accel is a joke by modern standards. P1P is 10k. With few mods like Mantis Xol printhead, aluminum gantry it is posssible to achive 15-18k acceleration. It you dont like klicky why not use tension sensors like bambu or prusa? Also mounting acelerometer on a fan cover wont give you realistic numbers in y-axis. It should be mounted on a heatblock/nozzle.
I don't feel that this Voron-tap thing is what we needed. I do not feel the benefit... I have a creality cr-6 and that probes with its nozzle (strain gauge) and has a quite low-ish accuracy in my case (0.01mm-ish) but still prints really fine 1st layers...
The big thing to keep in mind is the philosophy behind all things Voron... no custom parts, so all things must be able to be built with off the shelf commodity parts from standard suppliers. A strain gauge would work quite well but to get one that would work would mean it would need to be custom made to work and thus was ruled out. TAP is not considered standard on an of the printers anyways but as its own sub project with a very specific use case. It is not the lightest or most rigid but is surface agnostic and far more accurate than it needs to be while not being prone to drift at enclosed printer temps. Personally I like the benefits and accept the limitations it brings with it. That is the beauty of self built printers, we get to choose our priorities and build a better printer for our own uses and preferences.
@@abeardedbucket Makes sense... (I just thought that, for example, the HX711 is relatively widespread/widely available and may remain so for years to come.)
@@TamasJantyik While the hx711 as the amplifier would work just fine it's the actual load cell that present the issue. I would love to see it tackled but the Voron devs did say they looked at it and couldn't make it work within their requirements to a satisfactory degree, this is the joys of open source and the community, just because one group couldn't make it work doesn't mean it can't work just they didn't.
Beacon is good for large beds because it’s so fast but it doesn’t do Auto Z, so if you change build surfaces or nozzles often Tap or Klicky would be more convenient.
I will compare my printed tap vs my mellow tap. I had a lot of problems with the printed one. Breaking and melting parts mainly. Comparing graphs is pretty hard as you never know if there is an assembly fault as most graph irregularities result from user errors/ printing artifacts There is also a third cnc tap from Vitalii which combined cnc and 3d printing. A little correction to the video, it’s not formbot tap, it’s voron design tap. Formbot just provide the BOM and printed parts as a kit.
Thanks for your comment. I’m planning to test the Vitalii Tap as well in a future video. You’re right, it’s really just R8 Tap from Voron Design but pre-assembled and sold by Formbot. I was just trying to distinguish it from DIY self-built.
dang i really should look such things up before ordering parts and installing them, if i had done that i would not have got an tap and wouldn´t have to change now
Tap is still good. It limits your maximum printing acceleration but if you’re not printing at crazy speeds, the convenience of Tap may be worth it for you.
@@ygk3d yeah might be but i switch to the standard stealthburner for my buid since the 30$ one i got from aliexpress is garbage, installed the stelthburner onto it and i could really tillt it left and right so i took it apart just to encounter that one of the threads was so wide that you couldn´t get it fastened so instead of wasting more money i decided to fist get it up and running standard way with the klicky probe and maybe try it later if everything is running, downside is that i now have to get new belts because installed them wron on the tap and they are to short for the normal now...
I would use different phrasing because I sure someone put in a lot of effort, but I have to agree. It feels like it missed the whole point of nozzlepprobing when you have to calibrate Z anyways and it's sooo heavy comparatively.
the only real issue i have here is not including a current revision diy self printed one, mainly because it seems like you have one AND the Formbot version seems be a slightly older revision
The Formbot one is DIY without the Y. It is the current R8 version of Tap. It didn’t make sense to include both in the comparison, especially considering that Formbot is cheaper than DIY, so it’s a no-brainer to get it instead, in my opinion.
Hi, the Troodon 2 only has 24V at the toolboard and they use a custom main board and that goes to a BOB at the back of the printer in addition to the toolboard - I think the only 5V at the rear BOB is for the chamber LED (and maybe one other for a sensor) and because they use a custom toolboard with shared pins it's not easy to get 5V to the head. You can get a 24v switch for the Chaotic Lab TAP from a 3rd party - and that worked well for me.
I like this but man that mgn rail is huge. Surely there's a better way to make this system more compact. (Not discounting the engineering that went into the tap though, it definitely is impressive!)
All mechanical probes (klicky/microswitch, bltouch/crtouch, microprobe) dont care about build surface, so thats not really an argument for tap since most voron owners use klicky. The best use case with tap is in conjunction with a revo hotend. The base revo has not enough flow to really care about the weight gains and rigidity loss for the plastic versions of tap and the quickswap nature invites the user for more frequent nozzle changes. Also revo nozzles are 3 piece construction, unlike with single piece nozzles its difficult to always have the same length. For me tap is out of question since i use a crtouch for bed leveling and homing as well as i dont, and probably will never do, swap nozzles as i use a tungsten carbide tipped one that probably outlasts the rest of the printer. For revo users its a great thing, especially since you can get rid of the complicated macros and plugin for auto z offset often used with klicky and recommended for revo users
Excellent video with great explanation and content! I was just about to order a voron tap and you helped me decide to keep klicky! Do you find the switch you are using on klicky to be more accurate than D2F-5L? I am guesing the one you have is the omron D2HW but not sure which specific one, and is there a ready klicky mount for that?
Great Video Good points, choose the simple thing over the complicated thing, when calibrating your 3D printer. The simple thing show the errors relative fast, and don't mask the course of the errors. Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us 🙂
How do you know that all of the reduction in acceleration is due to the TAP? I mean... There are so many variables that can affect the result; Belt tension being one of the major variables. Loose (or looser than completely tight) screws also can hurt a graph and therefore the acceleration. For sure the TAP will decrease the accel to some extend due to the fact you add weight and decrease the rigidity. Maybe the rails on either TAP device have different pre load on the rail which will also affect rigidity and the IS result 🙂 Nice video though. But I personally don't see this as a final conclusion as there is simply too many variables :D Edit: BTW I don't use TAP or anything similar.
This is a good point. It’s hard to change only one variable when switching between the versions of Tap. I tried my best to keep it consistent and when I didn’t see a result I expected I gave it the benefit of the doubt that it was something I did wrong and not an issue with the product. This is why I went back and tightened the rail and switched the rail for the Formbot one to rule out those as sources of the higher z component of resonance. It’s certainly not a final conclusion because it is only a sample size of 1. Any good study needs multiple participants to draw a firm conclusion. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I wouldn't use the nozzle as a bed probe... it often has bits of plastic in it and will throw off the reading. And I definitely don't like the idea of that tiny Z rail behind the tool-head... just another weak-point that decreases rigidity and print speeds. All of this and other design flaws are really turning me off from building a Voron. Looks like it's either VzBot or RatRig.
TAP isn't part of the normal Voron Build, I don't think it normally has any probe in the default config. I personally recommend a Klicky Probe, because it's fairly cheap and is fairly simple to build. It still requires you to find the z-offset. I think some builds include something to determine the offset for you outside of the build plate but I have only built a V0 which doesn't require a probe, or really benefit from one.
@@Tomcat12789 If you combine klicky with a z endstop you can have auto-z which will determine your offset for you even when you change nozzles and build plates.
_"Every time you change a build plate or nozzle, you need to re-calculate the offset"_ This statement is true just in case of changing a building plate but false when it comes to nozzle changeover. *In Klipper the fundamental offset is defined not by a distance between a print surface and a nozzle tip but between the printing surface and a Z-home switch trigger point.* Once you've set a Z-offset for one nozzle there will be no need to re-set it for any other nozzle you change to the same way as in CNC mill you need to zero just the very first tool, or MASTER TOOL to Z0 of a program coordinate then after every next tool change the offset will be gotten automatically just as a DELTA between a master tool offset and the Z coordinate at what Z-tool setter is triggered, that's it. That's exactly how Voron printer works. Also changing a nozzle is a silly idea cause changing a whole hotend ass'y is a proper way to go.
Good call. On the 2.4 with the z pin for homing, you’re right. But the Stealthburner can be used in other setups without a Z pin, in which case changing the nozzle would require recalculating the z offset.
Great video. Really appreciate the throughfull and thorough a/b testing. The input shaper results alone are enough to make tap a no-go for me. Nozzle probing is "ideal", sure, but we can already get beautiful first layers with any of the many other probes out there. So we have a theoretical advantage from probing with the nozzle, but materially we get the same good first layers. And we have the very concrete disadvantage of input shaping being absymal. And then after all that, tap will cause pock-marks in smooth PEI while other probes will not. TAP was/is a valliant effort form voron design team and I'm glad they released it, but I wil keep looking. Klicky-00 is looking interesting, combining klicky with direct nozzle probing. We could also explore using a circuit through the nozzle and a block with known thickness, similar to how CNC touch blocks work.
There is absolutely no way that a basic microswitch can't handle 24V. It's not like it's a solid state device with nano scale insulated gates, it's literally pieces of metal that are mechanically moved to make/break contact. That said, microswitches are never a great option for any positioning system as they have poor reproducibility when compared to other options.
lol not really more like normal guy who modified a mount to work on his old ender before is completely scrapped it and built a switchwire to go with his 2.4 lol all credit goes to @mr_voron and his awesome team !!! @@ygk3d
Always enjoy your videos man. Thanks. In my opinion the tap is a bad design idea. Adds complexity, weight, loses rigidity. I can’t really see why anyone would install it tbh unless you nozzle swap daily. Clicky is far superior.
Another idiotic engeneering solution by Voron team. Voron is full of idiotic solution, but this one is stupidest for now. My Sapphire Plus with custom head ("Diamond") and BLTouch has 119Hz MZV on X and 78Hz MZV on Y. Cheap chinese printer with small mod is twice faster than Voron.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
All the nice features of the DIY version is the result of our iteration on the design. The metal versions are designed by whoever is selling them and didn’t have the same dev cycle time as the plastic version. Or any involvement from VORON Design engineers for that matter. So YMMV with those.
The man himself. Thank you for stopping by and for all of your work on the Voron project. You are truly a legend.
@@ygk3d Thank you, I'm just happy to be here. Great analysis on the various versions that sprung up since we released TAP. I didn't even know about the Mellow one. The behavior on it is quite odd, it should have performed on par with printed TAP setup, but there's clearly something not right there.
i just replaced the Chaotic Labs Tap with the Mellow Tap on one of my printers and I have no slop and the accuracy on par with the official printed Tap on my other printer.
@ygk3d I would contact Mellow and look at getting the rail replaced.
I've got a barebones one from Mellow on the way too. Going to use the same rail & sensor as i do on my RC8 tap and compare it back to back. Should at least rule out any potential difference from the rails and sensor, and just leave the printed plastic / cnc comparrison.
@@Exerqtor_ good thinking! Let us know how you make out.
Great points, altough I want to add two things:
With klicky, the microswitch can fail. I had this happen where it was slowly dying on me and I had to change the Z-offset by +0.5mm immediately before starting the print otherwise the nozzle would ram into the bed. The optical switch of Tap is more reliable.
Secondly you mentioned that plastic on the tip of the nozzle can affect tap measurements, but I find it to be the other way around. The 600-1000g of force from tap will squish all the plastic off the nozzle while with klicky and the z endstop calibration you have the nozzle probing the pin/microswitch of the z endstop with a lot less force, leaving some plastic on the nozzle and even worse leaving plastic on the pin and after that reading on the housing of the klicky switch then also being off because of the extra plastic on the pin and then the nozzle going in to the bed. I also had this happen.
Fantastic points! Thanks for mentioning these.
I have had some oozy petg on the end of the nozzle causing errors with the tap probing, but now I know the cause I just double check before QGL or homing
This is why (with Klicky) I don't use the z endstop. The klicky is used to home Z as well as probing to prevent issues with nozzle ooze.
thank god this video came out, i was about to buy the mellow tap, thought it would be better than my printed tap
I think there is an issue with the input shaper measurements on mellow tap tbh, the graph is much lower frequency, I think something else is at play here, possibly belt tension
@@williamluong7743 That's my guess as well. The modal peak dropping down from 65 Hz on X in the stock configuration to 55 Hz on X in the Mellow Tap configuration suggests decreased belt tension -- and the *much* higher frequency of Hz on the Formbot Tap suggests much higher belt tension.
@@williamluong7743 also with the accuracy, I had issues until I tightened the screws holding the optotap sensor, the fastening mechanism is a weakness imo.
same boat…Amazing how much headache a little bit of research can save you lol
I'm hoping my "Z" offset will be more accurate with beacon.
decided to do some last minute research just before ordering a mellow cnc tap and i’m glad I found this video!
It is also important the impact on usable accels, mgn12 adds a ton of weight, not to mention the extra weight on the print head
That's why it's recommended to start with the inductive probe first off, and mod from there gotta make your own choices, it's also good to remember that voron while yea you can make them go fast due to corexy kinematics, they weren't exactly built with scalability or high speeds in mind, it was created as a machine that you didn't have to service all the time and could run for days on end while remaining clean and quiet, high speeds cause issues with all of the above
personally I hate my bambu p1s cuz it's loud af and I can't do much about it, it'll print quick tho and if I need something quick well yea I'll use it but, my trident will take about 25-40% more time to print but even in my room I'll barely hear it over a video
I love Tap and use the self printed version since day1 with no issues.
My tap has been on my voron for many hundreds of hours. Smooth PEI and a diamondback nozzle. 4 magnets. No marring or damage to the print surface at this point! I did find the need for a brush to clean the nozzle before tapping. Which required some macro work. Certainly not plug and play, but amazing!
I used klicky before tap. I had too many issues with klicky failing to probe consistently. I switched to tap and never looked back. Tap has been flawless. I would also recommend running KAMP klipper macros with tap as well.
which tap kit did you use? i was thinking of going tap then saw this video. now im having some consistency issues and thinking of tap again but i want to go with the most reliable tap option.
I really liked my BLtouch that came with my Ender 5 plus. It worked great, but once in a while the pin would fail to deploy. I built my Voron with the included induction probe. At the time I wasn't sure what build surface I was going to use so it felt like was constantly having to adjust the Z height. I was reluctant to add TAP and was considering klicky. From what I was reading, TAP was considered the better probe. I heard it was a more complex mod, but it was pretty easy to build and install. It's worked flawlessly since day one. I like the added protection if the nozzle decides to take a dive into the build plate.
This was a great video on TAP and the different options available. Since I build my Voron, I've learned so much about designing parts so they don't need supports and using screws to strengthen them. I was surprised the aluminum one had lower acceleration values, but those screws used as stiffeners really are a cool trick!
Thanks for watching. The screw trick is definitely cool. I have been enjoying using heat set inserts in the parts I design. You can learn a lot by building a Voron and observing how they do things.
Does the Klicky with the auto z calibration allow similar plate changes etc? Mine is like bullet proof. I warm the nozzle, clean the nozzle and let it do its thing. Maybe one out of 100 prints something goes wrong. But it’s almost as reliable as anything I have seen from even like Bambulab
Yes, Klicky with Auto Z will make your z offset robust to nozzle and build plate changes, just like Tap.
I use klicky plus auto z on one trident and Vitali cnc tap on my latest trident, setup, use and repeatability is so much better with my tap machine compared to my klicky one.
The CNCTap's optical sensor could be affected by the surface finish of the metal tab moving through the sensor. Maybe coating the tab in a matte black paint will increases the accuracy?
Overall a nice analysis of the CNC tap. I wish you could have gotten that chaotic one tested too, but I think we have a clear “winner.” For me I prefer Klicky Auto-Z as I am running a much lighter toolhead on my V2 350 to help with accels. Sometimes, plastic is the answer!
You ever have any problems with klicky? I am trying to decide what way to go
@@F1v30h1 just docking issues due to other things being wrong. Other then that it has been fine
What microswitch you're using? I'm on my 3rd klicky, they all seem to go sick after a while losing accuracy and error out on tolerance during qgl.
Can definitely confirm issues with accuracy on the Mellow Tap. I also had one of the magnets come loose twice already. This one already replaced the Chaoticlab Tap. I'm running a Xol toolhead, so hoping to save a bunch of grams over printed Tap while reaping the benefits of nozzle probing, but it seems like I'll have to bite the bullet and either install a printed Tap, or move back to Klicky.
Meanwhile I'm running printed Tap R8 in a 2.4 and Boop beta 4 in a Micron with great accuracy.
How is this in any way better than a strain gauge sensor? It’s more expensive, heavier, bigger, more complex, and less accurate. Save your money and get just about any other solution.
Do you have any recommendations for where/how to set one up. Most things I have found seem quite involved to get working.
I see optotap pcb designer finally got around using proper type of a inductor for the dc-dc converter so it doesn't catch on fire.
Shouldnt a combination of a nozzle activated z endstop and klicky allow for no z offset when changing print-surfaces and nozzles?
Yes, it does!
I was second-guessing my choice to go with Klicky on my Trident build until I watched this video. Thank you for the excellent information, I'm sticking with Klicky for now
I have no idea what is going on or why I'm here but I feel informed.
Knowledge is power 😂
Good and useful video. A little disappointed you didn't include the CHAOTICLAB Tap V1 or V2 in your tests... (I ordered a V2)...
Thanks! I’m planning to cover those in a follow up video.
@@ygk3dwhen?
@@ygk3d Hi Taylor, this was a nicely detailed and well scripted video, well done! have you been able to figure out the problems you were having with Mellow tap, in rigidity and accuracy? And have you been able to test the Chaoticlab V2 and/or the one from Vitalii that is a combination of aluminum and printed parts yet?
@@lukasmatzinger thank you! I gave up on the Mellow tap after making this video. I have both Vitalii Tap and Chaotic Labs v2 on hand. I was planning a follow up to this video, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.
These seem to add a lot of weight to the assembly, and I don't like the reduction in rigidity. Is there a DIY strain gauge sensor? Would that be better?
I haven’t heard of one but that would be nice!
I really don't believe it's just tap that'll allow any build surface to be used without additional calibrations. I've used bltouch and klicky to determine where it's endstop is and it'll now use the new values to print at without calibration. Example if bed is 0, and I throw on a 4mm thick panel on and it probes it with klicky or bltouch, it'll now lay down first layer at 4.2mm
Chaotic v2 looks to have a lot of improvements, including not be 5v-24v now.
We have a LONG way to go to make this perfect.
Maybe the best way to "tap" the bed is to mount the bed on four load cells. The nozzle would then move down until (say) 500 grams of force was measured. Load cells could be mounted under the bed and on the 2.4 in such a way so as not to raise the bed and use up any of the vertical build volume. The cells cost maybe $10 each. This would allow "tap" probing with any unmodified print head.
What about using the accelerometer? Move the. nozzle down slowly and the accelerometer should detect just the normal 1G gravity until contact is made with the build plate and then it should measure a huge upward acceleration. It would work if the response were fast enough.
On CNC milling machine we always need to locate the part relative to the machine. They use electrical contact. This would only work for a bare metal build plate. You move the nozzle down until it closes a circuit with the bed. But this means insulating the bed using plastic screws or something and would not work with non-conductive surfaces.
Could a sensitive microphone detect nozzle-to-plate contact?
really highlights how impressive SecKit’s implementation is on Tank v2
This has got to be the most 'Rube Goldberg' way of probing I've ever seen. The 'extra accuracy and precision' is great as a marketing tag - but when it comes to actual printing, on real world surfaces and print beds - it just doesn't matter. At all. It seems like the tap was designed as an exercise of "because we can" rather than "because it's better and more efficient".
The whole Voron is "because we can"... Otherwise, how can one explain all the complicated candy-like designs looking more like japanese anime, than like a 3D printer :)
tnx a lot. I was about to buy the mellow one because my plastic tap is not that stiff. But now i'll just print the steel reinforced version. BTW, all the tiny draw backs of tap just pale when compared to it's ease of use. I just love it
When you use an optical switch or such like, you need to provide power to it, so 12/24V may matter, the board needs to be designed to accept either or both. The power must be independent of the GPIO that gets triggered by the probe.
When you use that mouse button switch (endstop, microswitch), you simply don't run power to it, you just use the internal pullup GPIO wire and ground. The GPIO is going to be 5V or 3.3V whatever the processor IO voltage is. So i think you may have rejected the variant that uses a microswitch prematurely.
Furthermore switches of this construction are typically safe to 30V or more, you can see Omron D2F and Kailh GM specs. Very cheap variants such s D2FC and no-names are only tested to 6V continuous operation, but there's not actually a reason 24V would cause a concern when current limited, and they are still typically Hi-Pot type-tested (600V, 1500V). The wording is probably supposed to warn you that if you run your 12/24V to the switch and the GPIO line, instead of ground and GPIO, you're going to instantly damage your processor. But well wrong wiring will damage your processor with any kind of sensor or switch or peripheral.
Did you use the same opto pcb for the comparisons? I wonder if the Mellow tap pcb has a lower quality sensor?
Can the printed one be used on the formbot 2.4r2 version? When I search for tap on their site its listed under Troodon and not Voron. Does it matter because thats a great price lol?
Yes, it can. The only thing you might need to change is the wire for the sensor. Agreed, it is a great price.
I doubt I was the first to do this, but I "invented" a material I use in many of my designs. I call it "steel-reinforced PLA". I model a long M3-sized threaded hole in the plastic part. Then after printing I drip some CA glue (super glue) in the hole and thread in a flat-head M3 screw. The screw is simply acting as a steel rod making the part stronger. PLA is usually somewhat brittle but with some steel screws inside it is MUCH stronger.
It looks like Formbot does this too. But no glue.
Great idea! Voron used this concept in the design of their printed Tap. Formbot just packaged that up as a ready-to-buy kit.
The rigidity of these assembly depend only on the linear rail quality. In a dependable linear rail brand, you can choose at least 2 or 3 quality (smoothness of the ball path) and, most importantly preload value. For example with Misumi you can choose slight clearance (standard movment with no effort), light preload keep rigidity with low efforts (as in a 3D printer for example), and high preload (typical for lathe and Milling machines). Of course if you want smoothness with low effort while keeping precision you need high quality combined with light preload. With preload type, blocks are paired with their rails and you can't exchange them. For reference from their respective catalogs, Misumi precision is at 7µm, original Hiwin is around 40µm and you can imagine the Chineese knockoffs...
Have the Chaoticlab Tap installed on my V 2.4 for couple of months, decision taken after two destroyed extruders while printing ASA/ABS. Today fitted a Buildtak surface as was still facing adhesion problems with those filaments. Guess what? QGL was not successful for several times. Reason? Buildatck got some nice holes, 0.4 diameter of course and several thousands deep, right exactly where the nozzle was probing. Cause of Tap? Yeap....
I have personally not explored nozzle probing because i want to be able to use cheap black print surface sticker (buildtak-like), i don't know what it's made of. Is there a nozzle temperature at which it can be used, where both the nozzle wouldn't damage it too much and the nozzle gunk of PETG and HIPS will be displaced and not affect the probe?
TAP klipper macros reduce probing temp to 150C to avoid damage to pei and other surfaces while probing.
@@thegarageluthier IIRC they said in the inital announcment livestream, even at 150c tap causes pock marks in smooth pei.
@@caramelzappa I run Tap on 2 machines at the moment and have had zero issues, but this is just my own personal experience.
Under bed piezo sensors would address most of these issues.
If that existed as a retrofit solution it would be great.
And be less reliable, Piezos have been used and tried for over a decade and were found to fail easily and were unreliable over long periods of use. Tap like devices have been in use on deltas for nearly as long and have proven to be simple and reliable.
@@ygk3d There are multiple companies that supply retro fit piezo electronics in varying disc sizes. As i stated in my other reply these wre normally associated with delta printers with fixed beds.
Wait - what? Why is a microswitch, normally rated for 125V minimum, only for 5V???
I'm also curious about this strange info :) maybe there is just another useless LED that will blow off on 24V volts... But yeah, that does not matter :)
This just seems over complicated for what it is trying to achieve and has too many downsides I think. You want your print head to stay as rigid as possible, not having a large movement like that, that is just triggered by a force on the hot end. Strain gauge based probing is better or bed vibration based like Bambu does it has a lot less downsides for the same or better effect.
Thanks for this analysis. TAP is such a intriguing concept. When i first saw it, i thought "oh, that takes away so much complexity from the leveling process, compared to my klicky button-docking-and-parking-procedure. I need to have one". But when i looked at the implementation details: "oh..ok. na thanks. That is way more complex in other ways compared to klicky"
the implementation as we have it for now is just too fiddly for my taste. The drawbacks one has to pay compared to klicky are just to expensive. maybe a next iteration will catch me :)
Thanks for confirming my unsubstantiated gut feeling and an entertaining video :D
Really, only one change to printer.cfg to turn on TAP? I used the voron guide and bang:Option 'control' in section 'heater_bed' must be specified.
Hello, does anyone have the Voron tap calibration set? I have a problem when starting the print, everything seems to be going well until it finishes calibrating and it tells me that the nozzle temperature is very low... I don't know how to change that... when it finishes calibrating, it raises the temperature so that I can print...thank you.
I would like to see a load cell beeing used in the future
like what prusa and bambu and creality are doing now?
Yea but not in the bed like in a Bambu Lab printer but in tool head like the creality does it.@@TMS5100
Very detailed, informative, and professionally done instructional video. All of these tap sensors however are useless for my custom UHT Voron.
Thanks!
I stopped using my vorons because the build plate always warped and bed mesh never could fix my problems. Have you had this experience?
Mhhh strange. No, that’s not something I’ve experienced.
To me with the speed craze this strikes me as crazy heavy
How did you get a pointy tip on your Klicky? I'm switching back from Chaotic labs Tap.
I bought the PCB Klicky probe kit.
What size of printer was this tested on?
Voron printhead is already extremely heavy and seriously limits its printspeed. Why would anyone add 100+g to it? 8400 stock or 3800 accel is a joke by modern standards. P1P is 10k. With few mods like Mantis Xol printhead, aluminum gantry it is posssible to achive 15-18k acceleration. It you dont like klicky why not use tension sensors like bambu or prusa?
Also mounting acelerometer on a fan cover wont give you realistic numbers in y-axis. It should be mounted on a heatblock/nozzle.
What are the tools you're using for screwing things in and out.. green handle one hex one?
They’re just color coded Allen keys.
I don't feel that this Voron-tap thing is what we needed. I do not feel the benefit...
I have a creality cr-6 and that probes with its nozzle (strain gauge) and has a quite low-ish accuracy in my case (0.01mm-ish) but still prints really fine 1st layers...
The big thing to keep in mind is the philosophy behind all things Voron... no custom parts, so all things must be able to be built with off the shelf commodity parts from standard suppliers. A strain gauge would work quite well but to get one that would work would mean it would need to be custom made to work and thus was ruled out. TAP is not considered standard on an of the printers anyways but as its own sub project with a very specific use case. It is not the lightest or most rigid but is surface agnostic and far more accurate than it needs to be while not being prone to drift at enclosed printer temps.
Personally I like the benefits and accept the limitations it brings with it. That is the beauty of self built printers, we get to choose our priorities and build a better printer for our own uses and preferences.
@@abeardedbucket Makes sense... (I just thought that, for example, the HX711 is relatively widespread/widely available and may remain so for years to come.)
@@TamasJantyik While the hx711 as the amplifier would work just fine it's the actual load cell that present the issue. I would love to see it tackled but the Voron devs did say they looked at it and couldn't make it work within their requirements to a satisfactory degree, this is the joys of open source and the community, just because one group couldn't make it work doesn't mean it can't work just they didn't.
@@abeardedbucket Hm, I see. Thanks for your reply!
When comparing cost and assembly complexity, how do you think the tap compares to the beacon probe?
beacon >>>
Beacon is good for large beds because it’s so fast but it doesn’t do Auto Z, so if you change build surfaces or nozzles often Tap or Klicky would be more convenient.
Beacon is really fast. It just doesn't measure non-metallic surfaces. Nobody using one on PEI or anything else seems to mind though.
I will compare my printed tap vs my mellow tap. I had a lot of problems with the printed one.
Breaking and melting parts mainly.
Comparing graphs is pretty hard as you never know if there is an assembly fault as most graph irregularities result from user errors/ printing artifacts
There is also a third cnc tap from Vitalii which combined cnc and 3d printing.
A little correction to the video, it’s not formbot tap, it’s voron design tap. Formbot just provide the BOM and printed parts as a kit.
Thanks for your comment. I’m planning to test the Vitalii Tap as well in a future video.
You’re right, it’s really just R8 Tap from Voron Design but pre-assembled and sold by Formbot. I was just trying to distinguish it from DIY self-built.
dang i really should look such things up before ordering parts and installing them, if i had done that i would not have got an tap and wouldn´t have to change now
Tap is still good. It limits your maximum printing acceleration but if you’re not printing at crazy speeds, the convenience of Tap may be worth it for you.
@@ygk3d yeah might be but i switch to the standard stealthburner for my buid since the 30$ one i got from aliexpress is garbage, installed the stelthburner onto it and i could really tillt it left and right so i took it apart just to encounter that one of the threads was so wide that you couldn´t get it fastened so instead of wasting more money i decided to fist get it up and running standard way with the klicky probe and maybe try it later if everything is running, downside is that i now have to get new belts because installed them wron on the tap and they are to short for the normal now...
the switch inside chaotic lab tap is actually an optical sensor
I feel like I prefer just a plain contact probe over this.
I would use different phrasing because I sure someone put in a lot of effort, but I have to agree. It feels like it missed the whole point of nozzlepprobing when you have to calibrate Z anyways and it's sooo heavy comparatively.
@@BeefIngot Yeah sorry that was a bit rude of me.
the only real issue i have here is not including a current revision diy self printed one, mainly because it seems like you have one AND the Formbot version seems be a slightly older revision
The Formbot one is DIY without the Y. It is the current R8 version of Tap. It didn’t make sense to include both in the comparison, especially considering that Formbot is cheaper than DIY, so it’s a no-brainer to get it instead, in my opinion.
@@ygk3d You know what they say about people who assume that word applies to things....
your toolhead board most likly will have 5v endstop ports.. like they all do.
Hi, the Troodon 2 only has 24V at the toolboard and they use a custom main board and that goes to a BOB at the back of the printer in addition to the toolboard - I think the only 5V at the rear BOB is for the chamber LED (and maybe one other for a sensor) and because they use a custom toolboard with shared pins it's not easy to get 5V to the head.
You can get a 24v switch for the Chaotic Lab TAP from a 3rd party - and that worked well for me.
@@work_stuff ah i see, they use RRF and Duet boards. But it seems not the standard Duet Toolhead board - which has 12, 5 and 3,3v regulators.
Excellent video, well done! Sticking with PCB Klicky.
Thank you!
I like this but man that mgn rail is huge. Surely there's a better way to make this system more compact. (Not discounting the engineering that went into the tap though, it definitely is impressive!)
All mechanical probes (klicky/microswitch, bltouch/crtouch, microprobe) dont care about build surface, so thats not really an argument for tap since most voron owners use klicky. The best use case with tap is in conjunction with a revo hotend. The base revo has not enough flow to really care about the weight gains and rigidity loss for the plastic versions of tap and the quickswap nature invites the user for more frequent nozzle changes. Also revo nozzles are 3 piece construction, unlike with single piece nozzles its difficult to always have the same length.
For me tap is out of question since i use a crtouch for bed leveling and homing as well as i dont, and probably will never do, swap nozzles as i use a tungsten carbide tipped one that probably outlasts the rest of the printer.
For revo users its a great thing, especially since you can get rid of the complicated macros and plugin for auto z offset often used with klicky and recommended for revo users
Excellent video with great explanation and content! I was just about to order a voron tap and you helped me decide to keep klicky! Do you find the switch you are using on klicky to be more accurate than D2F-5L? I am guesing the one you have is the omron D2HW but not sure which specific one, and is there a ready klicky mount for that?
Great Video
Good points, choose the simple thing over the complicated thing, when calibrating your 3D printer. The simple thing show the errors relative fast, and don't mask the course of the errors.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us 🙂
How do you know that all of the reduction in acceleration is due to the TAP? I mean... There are so many variables that can affect the result; Belt tension being one of the major variables. Loose (or looser than completely tight) screws also can hurt a graph and therefore the acceleration. For sure the TAP will decrease the accel to some extend due to the fact you add weight and decrease the rigidity. Maybe the rails on either TAP device have different pre load on the rail which will also affect rigidity and the IS result 🙂
Nice video though. But I personally don't see this as a final conclusion as there is simply too many variables :D
Edit: BTW I don't use TAP or anything similar.
This is a good point. It’s hard to change only one variable when switching between the versions of Tap. I tried my best to keep it consistent and when I didn’t see a result I expected I gave it the benefit of the doubt that it was something I did wrong and not an issue with the product. This is why I went back and tightened the rail and switched the rail for the Formbot one to rule out those as sources of the higher z component of resonance.
It’s certainly not a final conclusion because it is only a sample size of 1. Any good study needs multiple participants to draw a firm conclusion.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I wouldn't use the nozzle as a bed probe... it often has bits of plastic in it and will throw off the reading. And I definitely don't like the idea of that tiny Z rail behind the tool-head... just another weak-point that decreases rigidity and print speeds. All of this and other design flaws are really turning me off from building a Voron. Looks like it's either VzBot or RatRig.
TAP isn't part of the normal Voron Build, I don't think it normally has any probe in the default config. I personally recommend a Klicky Probe, because it's fairly cheap and is fairly simple to build. It still requires you to find the z-offset. I think some builds include something to determine the offset for you outside of the build plate but I have only built a V0 which doesn't require a probe, or really benefit from one.
@@Tomcat12789 Tweaking the offset once all 4 corners are even is not a challenging task with some test prints and noting values
@@Tomcat12789 If you combine klicky with a z endstop you can have auto-z which will determine your offset for you even when you change nozzles and build plates.
_"Every time you change a build plate or nozzle, you need to re-calculate the offset"_
This statement is true just in case of changing a building plate but false when it comes to nozzle changeover. *In Klipper the fundamental offset is defined not by a distance between a print surface and a nozzle tip but between the printing surface and a Z-home switch trigger point.* Once you've set a Z-offset for one nozzle there will be no need to re-set it for any other nozzle you change to the same way as in CNC mill you need to zero just the very first tool, or MASTER TOOL to Z0 of a program coordinate then after every next tool change the offset will be gotten automatically just as a DELTA between a master tool offset and the Z coordinate at what Z-tool setter is triggered, that's it. That's exactly how Voron printer works. Also changing a nozzle is a silly idea cause changing a whole hotend ass'y is a proper way to go.
Good call. On the 2.4 with the z pin for homing, you’re right. But the Stealthburner can be used in other setups without a Z pin, in which case changing the nozzle would require recalculating the z offset.
Great video. Really appreciate the throughfull and thorough a/b testing.
The input shaper results alone are enough to make tap a no-go for me. Nozzle probing is "ideal", sure, but we can already get beautiful first layers with any of the many other probes out there.
So we have a theoretical advantage from probing with the nozzle, but materially we get the same good first layers.
And we have the very concrete disadvantage of input shaping being absymal.
And then after all that, tap will cause pock-marks in smooth PEI while other probes will not.
TAP was/is a valliant effort form voron design team and I'm glad they released it, but I wil keep looking. Klicky-00 is looking interesting, combining klicky with direct nozzle probing.
We could also explore using a circuit through the nozzle and a block with known thickness, similar to how CNC touch blocks work.
Now that is a proper comparison and analysis. Thank you!!
Seems endstop switch wins
Great video!
Thank you!
I agree with your conclusions - I'm a Klicky Probe fan. I think TAP is an over-complicated solution to a simple problem.
Thanks for the analysis . just remove the CNC tap on the shopping cart.
I did this on a 9 year old Prusa clone over 2 years ago! LOL This is noting new, it has been in use for a long time in cnc plasma cutters.
Good stuff.
I hear lots of complaints about chaotic tap. I say none of above
There is absolutely no way that a basic microswitch can't handle 24V. It's not like it's a solid state device with nano scale insulated gates, it's literally pieces of metal that are mechanically moved to make/break contact. That said, microswitches are never a great option for any positioning system as they have poor reproducibility when compared to other options.
I was also shocked to see a microswitch in one of the TAPs. It pretty much defeats the purpose.
its not everyday your watching youtube and see a picture of your old printer show up lololol (u/kejar31)
Hahaha! The man, the myth, the legend.
lol not really more like normal guy who modified a mount to work on his old ender before is completely scrapped it and built a switchwire to go with his 2.4 lol all credit goes to @mr_voron and his awesome team !!! @@ygk3d
Prefer one of the many microswitch variants like klicky
Always enjoy your videos man. Thanks. In my opinion the tap is a bad design idea. Adds complexity, weight, loses rigidity. I can’t really see why anyone would install it tbh unless you nozzle swap daily. Clicky is far superior.
Cheers. Thanks for watching!
I was super hyped to hear about the Tap the I realized it didn't do auto Z as you had to set the Z offset of the probe itself.
So close.
You only have to set it once then it will be automatic.
zee not zed
Why not just do what we do in CNC machines to set tool offsets. I swear 3d printer nerds have to reinvent every wheel on the planet.
Another idiotic engeneering solution by Voron team. Voron is full of idiotic solution, but this one is stupidest for now.
My Sapphire Plus with custom head ("Diamond") and BLTouch has 119Hz MZV on X and 78Hz MZV on Y. Cheap chinese printer with small mod is twice faster than Voron.
It's great that you're printing in the 700+ range.
I have 180HZ mzv on x on my voron. You have skill issue.
@@youtubehandlesux Try raising accel_per_hz to something about 200 during resonance measurement. You'll get real values.