Thanks for watching. For the record, I’m not saying the X1Cs are permanent paperweights. They’re just out of commission until I find the time to repair them. I’m perceiving it to be a difficult process given how tightly integrated these machines are, but I might be mistaken. I have reviewed the instructions on the Wiki for replacing the heated bed and it appears to be quite involved, but perhaps it’s easier than it looks. Cost wise, the replacements are very reasonable: around $120 for a full bed assembly.
Bro. You made a video bashing the serviceability of the them without even contacting their support team first? 😂. By stating that nonsense, I assume everything else you said was nonsense.
@ @ it’s all documented on the Wiki, so I know roughly what’s involved. It doesn’t look like an insignificant task which is why I haven’t gotten around to it. Contacting support would just be for a warranty claim to save the cost of the replacement parts.
I do agree with the complexity of disassembly, since I already got the hotend, extruder assembly replaced(after spending couple of hours trying to recover them). The Lidar on X1C makes for a no tune, print anything for prototype purposes(unless you edit a bunch of gcode to bypass unwanted procedures for production). It unnecessarily increases complexity(when lidar/camera error pops up from time to time), and additional time to every print. The best I know was a Lulzbot, with its direct extruder, although it is lost in eternity. I do love P1S's no wifi, no bamboo studio not even registered🤫, but prints like a tank, with just the gcode loaded onto an industrial microsd card, except for one firmware bug(resolved in a later firmware🤯), that can be easily worked around.❤👍
@@ygk3d You also likened Bambu printers to disposable tech, complete with stock footage of shredded circuit boards and allusions to the iPhone's lack of repairability while nuzzling up on Prusa's jock. Then you go after Bambu's "shoddy support" at 10:47, but you said yourself you haven't contacted them. And if/when Prusa goes out of business, I challenge you to find a complete third party toolhead. Or their PCBs. Go ahead, go find them now even. Rethink this video. Consider pulling and fixing it. I won't see anything you ever produce ever again, since I'll be blocking this channel from my recommendations next time I get the chance... (And I own a P1S, an X1C, and an XL). Oh, I see - You'd throw out a P1S if you run into the slightest hiccup. Got it. Dude, you have some brown on your nose. Did Bambu decline to send you review units or something?
@ you’ve misinterpreted. I love Bambu printers. They’re my daily drivers. Perhaps some of my statements were misinterpreted. I wasn’t implying Bambu’s customer service is shoddy, just that Prusa’s is not. And the bit about most tech products being disposable was a general statement of the industry. I’m pretty certain I’ll have sold off all of my current generation printers 5 years from now. They won’t immediately end up as e-waste but eventually the tech will be so dated that nobody will want them. I tried to be pretty even in my assessment here, saying both positive and negative about both brands. If you don’t like my content, that’s your loss.
Now that Bambu’s cloud-based long game is out in the open, Prusa is looking good again. It’s worth paying more to not deal with a company trying to control what you do with your own machine.
@@bmobert For the record - it sure doesn't look good, but they haven't released anything yet. Personally, I am withholding final judgement until I see the real-world impacts.
I love that one of their "backhanded" comments of not needing to connect to the internet has probably just become the biggest selling point over bambu.
neither does bambu... people keep repeating misinformation. you _DO NOT HAVE TO CONNECT BAMBU PRINTERS TO THE INTERNET_ , neither lan mode, nor SD card access stops working. why are you people lying?
@@Xadarakoyou do if want to take advantage of all the printers capabilities. Which is the whole point, I don’t want to buy something that has features that will be locked unless I connect to the companies servers and receive permission to do so. Stop simpin and wake up
@@Goobicon4507 Well good for you. But don't expect anyone else to follow. go ahead and throw away a perfectly fine working machine, which won't stop working because of kneejerk reactions. if you people would all inform yourselves instead of jumping on bandwagons, we'd actually get somewhere. but fine. be that way. bye!
One thing that gets missed from the conversation also imo is that Prusa is about the only company that’s not based in china, that’s a way bigger deal than people give credit.
Is it? At the end of the day, is the average consumer finding a product that is technically better in almost every way, then scrapping it for something from europe because they hate china. How is DJI doing so well then?
@@morbus5726 Because there is very little competition. You're missing how big DJI is - they have enough resources to build things at huge loss just to test the market, something no one else can do, and getting profitable in drone market is a feat on its own. As a proof, ask people around you (provided you don't live in drone racers neighbourhood) if the know any other company even remotely connected to drones. Most common answer you will hear is Red Bull...
@@Xadarako Geez. Where have you been. Have you not ever seen this pattern in a company before? No, they wont do it *this soon*, but would be a PR death knell. But they are setting it up TO do that in the future if they decide they need to increase revenue for stockholders. Its the precedent that it sets that's important. The precedent that has been followed by many companies before this.
I think you overestimate the market share that Prusa has. According to Prusa, they have never had more than 10% market share. Creality was the company that lost the most market share to Bambu Lab. Prusa is moving towards industry because things like good support or certifications are more important there than in the consumer market. As a company that manufactures in Europe, Prusa can't compete on price unless they fire people and move production to China. So they don't have much of a choice.
I think people sometimes miss one important fact about Prusa Research. The company does not really have any venture capital behind it. If nothing changed 85% of the company is still owned by Průša brothers. It is family business and it is not as profit driven as companies backed by capital investors demanding growth and profit almost at all cost. Dont forget that Prusa i3 is really part of RepRap project and full name is Prusa Mendel i3 with whole design released under GPL license. The "Original Prusa i3" was called original because there where more clones of it then Prusa Research ever built. 😁
@@Keveira So you are saying that company that established desktop 3D printers as what they are today and could not be matched in reliability and print quality for given price for 5+ years lacks vision. Did I understand you wrong or something?
@@Keveira That makes zero sense, professionalism does not depend on the familial status of the founders. "Vision" and "forward-thinking" are just meaningless buzzwords as they are making 3d printers and will continue to release more 3d printers that will incrementally improve on the performance of the previous models.
Nope. According to market date Prusa still had 39% in 2022/2023 and Bambu had 30% along side with Ultimaker. You might not forget that prusa does also sell industrial machines. The consumer market is not really a good way to go for a company because, people don´t want to spend a lot of money, they are far too often picky, you have consumer protection in many countries. In the B2B Area a comany can make much more money.
Someone who has a 1s and a carbon, the price is only a $100 difference if u base it on regular price of the Bambu carbon instead of the sale price. For someone who always thought perusal was too expensive, they are looking more n more attractive considering I’ve already spent just as much… n especially now that Bambu is taking some mis-steps
There is more to this story. This is a fight between "corporate greed of walled in gardens" and "freedom to own modify and repair". To me its not about the money, (although I do realize it is for almost all consumers) but about the culture of 3d printing and innovation. We have seen what happens when we allow companies to take away right for repair or modify and in the end it ends up costing everything and you own nothing. I own my Prusas outright and its almost impossible for someone to position themself between me and my printers (unless you are in my kitchen) and as an extension I feel own a bit of Prusa brand as well. This is to contrast the feeling of some other companies where you feel exactly the opposite where you do buy the product but all the updates, software or consumables are proprietary and mandatory (think some drone or phone manufacturers). This is why I want to defend Prusa as a brand, you might label it silly, fair enough, but it comes from a deeper set of beliefs of how we need to behave as consumers, and vote with out wallets.
You are absolutely free to do so, but the Bambu Lab enterprise (two companies in China plus Maker World run by a third company in Singapore) was created for business success. The CEO recently said that a million printers were shipped. Something is working...
@@michaels3003 You're missing the point or I don't really get your position. I recently got a Bambu Labs P1S. Really nice printer, really good experience. But what michaels said worries me. What happens if bambu decides that i need to pay a subscription for the apps/online features? A fee for cloud print jobs? I needed to bind my printer to an account for all of the online features. I could still use the SD-Card, but that company has the primary purpose of profit If they decide to switch to subscriptions, I need to pay or inconvenience myself to use a piece of kit that i purchased and i want to own fully.
"corporate greed of walled gardens" - there's nothing inherent to walled gardens that makes them just vacuum up more money than other business models. Otherwise it would be a whole lot more common. Especially since the point of for-profit businesses is, well... If you aren't into the walled garden model, cool, don't invest in any of them. But lets cut down on the nonsense hyperbole. It's so tiring while undermining anything reasonable you have to say.
I hate it when I go to print something with my Bambu Printers and the CEO air drops into my living room between me and my printers. I'm totaling getting a Prusa now.
One of the biggest advantages of Prusa is that it is based in Europe, where I also live. This means that their products comply with European regulations, which improves customer security and makes warranty services and returns smoother. Additionally, money stays within Europe, which is important for supporting the local economy. Prusa's factory also provides jobs in the region, contributing to job creation within Europe. Prusa’s device support is also exceptional. For example, my old MK3S printer, which I've been using for several years, still receives updates. This long-term support is a big advantage compared to many other brands. Prusa’s open-source mentality is also a key factor in my decision to buy their products: it gives users the freedom to modify and share their devices, which appeals to those who value openness and community support.
Any company from China that wants to sell it's products in the EU, has to comply with the same regulations that Prusa does. As for money staying in Europe, I agree, if we got pretty much the same tech for roughly the same money, I'd choose an EU manufacturer over a Chinese one every time.
That's copium. China's workforce is as skilled and plentiful as in the EU, whether we're talking about factory workers or engineers (and especially engineers). All you're paying for on a Made in the EU product is taxes and the 6 months of paid leave and the "free" healthcare every European loves to rave about. That's literally it
@@spets234 Bambu just nuked themselves by blocking non-proprietary software. I was about to buy four of their printers, and now I'm looking at all the options again. Ugh.
@@averagefan8199 They came out and said that the update won't prevent prints, but their update says it will prevent prints. So what do we believe? What they're saying or what they're doing?
Prusa is reliable, made in EU/US, mostly open with a open firmware, nobody is using you data for research, and you can trust the team for support and help. That's why you are paying a "premium".
"Reliable" - "you can trust the team for support and help" Hopefully you dont end up having the experience I did when I bought a MK4 at launch and they sent me a total lemon. Full of extruder and heatbed issues and couldnt print a thing. Support dragged me through the ringer for my full warranty period even admitting on record the machine was a lemon but that they wouldnt replace it because, ahem, "its better for *us* to just send you a part than a whole machine." Again, they admitted *on record* that the machine was a lemon but instead of replacing it they just ran out my whole warranty period looking for the one part to replace. I even said I would pay for shipping and send back my busted one, but nope. Now I'm out of warranty buying parts out of pocket just trying to get it to even work. I will never make the mistake of buying Prusa again. On a side note, they do collect data like everyone else under the the whole, "help us improve?" guise. It's up to them to decide how your data "helps them improve" so... I guess pick the answer you want to believe?
@@Giskard_Reventlov Start a 3d print manufacturer in EU or USA and let me know instead of pulling random number. Just send a step file to an american manufacturer for 5k pieces VS china and let me know if the difference is 15% lol
@@Giskard_Reventlov 15% more is not a premium. Companies can pay double or triple for a machine if it's reliable and easy to fix even if it doesn't have the cool features.
This guy states that the Prusas just needed a little maintenance to get them going, but the Bambi’s are paperweight because he doesn’t want to do the maintenance..
I hate downtime. Prusa gives me the confidence that I will always get my printers up up and running if they ever go down. I also know I can always get ahold of Prusa support.
The problem is for a given comparable prusa machine you can buy 2 Bambu machines so the confidence (not based in evidence as multiple print farms have shown the Bambus to be just as if not more reliable) dies with the fact you can just have more.
Ignore that guy, hes a certified bambu shill that has zero experience with prusa. Bambu's are referred to as "easy bake vorons" for the very reason that they are considered throwaways when broken.
I actually think this confidence is rather mispaced. There's any number of manufacturers of clone/replacement parts for Bambu given just how popular those machines have become, and if Bambu stops offering genuine well priced replacement parts, there's guaranteed to be more. And on the other hand Prusa sells relatively fewer printers and has also steered hard towards proprietary parts and abandoned open-source hardware - the MK4 and Core One are no longer open source. Between the two Prusa would still be my choice because less locked down, but honestly i would choose neither.
Your MK3's may be old, and slower, but they are reliable, still working, still getting updates, and have confidence you can buy parts for it for a very long time.
They sat gathering dust for a long time but recently I had a project that could make use of them and they have been slowly but surely cranking out parts.
@@ygk3d Its amazing the comments that you get regarding the Bambu and Prusa printers. One was designed to be fast & inexpensive as its primary, and the other was designed to be sustainable and repairable first. They both serve a purpose, and they are both good printers. I own both too (well, not the CoreOne yet). People just have to be honest what they are getting in the short and long term.
@@ygk3d only gathering dust because you didn't hit the print button on them? even if their slower they still work... this sounds more like poor planing than anything.
I don't know ever since we got our bambu labs I only used our prusa printers once. The immense speed difference and reliable print quality is miles different. We might upgrade our mk3s to the m4 kit which will likely make the machine use able again but the ability to print a quality part for a client 2 to 3x faster is insane value as a company as well as KNOWING it will print 100% or atleast 95% success
@chandlerdance Thanks for the info. I looked into it a bit and I find this odd. When I saw the CEO like a year ago, he seemed really likable and virtuous. I'm surprised they would be doing something outright malicious. From what I read, Bambu still gave ways for 3rd party apps to access the printers. A way that requires proper authentication and takes away vulnerabilities. Since they are totally cloudy printing based, people, specially the Prusa community and others of such persuasion, are distrusting of network equipment. So, I think it would greatly erode trust if Bambu let a massive vulnerability get exploited. It seems like a really good idea to get ahead of the curve rather than get their reputation severely damaged. Especially if 3rd party devices and apps can still work. Idk, I might be very wrong, but I think this might genuinely be in the best interest of Bambu, the community, and the printer owners.
Bambu now locking down the firmware preventing third party apps from working. Will never support a company that changed to removes features after they sold you it.
SUPPORT. I've had a few tuning issues with my Prusa XL & Mk3.9 lately. Instead of doing a whole bunch of head scratching I tried their support. They got back to me within an hour and provided clear and thorough support asking for pics and video of the issues I was facing. Really makes me happy that I stuck with the brand.
Prusa versus Bambu is a religious war. Bambu supplanted Prusa less in technology than they did in conversion of religious fanatics. I don't own either, but I'd never buy any Bambu product because I disagree with their disregard for my privacy and security, as well as their overall disdain for intellectual property. I also don't like how they built their proprietary closed garden atop a mountain of open source development.
@@CielMC - Yeah. Sigh. The only thing that surprised me about this week's big Bambu blowup was that so many Bambu printer users were surprised. It's worth noting that they aren't Bambu printer owners, because Bambu Lab obviously owns the printers and they're only letting those people use them in exchange for sharing their designs with Bambu Lab.
interesting, how old are the X1C's? I'm curious if there's a change in quality or just flukes, my two have 2,700+ and 1,900+ hours each and I've only had to replace Bowden tubes, cutters, unjam an extruder because I used old brittle filament in it, and clean the lidar camera a bunch of times (in addition to regular leadscrew lubing and maintenance) I guess I'm lucky, but I know people who have entire X1C farms with similar luck
They're maybe a year and a half old. I have others that are still running strong. It's possible that these units were just lemons, because, like you say, many people have far exceeded 1,000 hours of printing with minimal issues.
My X1C is on about 2500 and still working like charm. A1 about 1500 and still no problem, A1 mini about 600+ and no problem. And all parts are on bambu store.
My Bambu has been printing no stop for 46 years now, and it still goes great, no problems no maintainance... This is an absolutely organic comment, and it's perfectly natural that every friggin time anyone mentions a problem with a Bambu printer 90% of the comments are "My Bambu was used to build the piramid of Giza and still works no problem."
Has anyone mentioned the fact that the Prusa Core One is much more compact than most (all?) other printers that offer roughly the same build volume? That makes it very attractive to me as a complement to my current Prusa MK4 and Voron V0.
Is it though? Being able to fit a whole spools speaks to how much space in the sides there is. It doesn't seem notably more compact than anything else and they again go with the weird non uniform xy
@@BeefIngot The space on the sides comes from the Stepper motors which makes printers much bigger than the print bed. They optimize space using which makes the total footprint, including the spool smaller and helps with heating. So, quite a good solution.
@bern71 That doesn't check out given many printers use a wrap around design for the motors. I feel like people bend over to find everything Prusa to be somehow genius
It is not the steppers, is the kinematic that lays on top of the filament rolls. It hast to be bigger than the print bed. Also part of the print head exceeds the sides of the print bed. Prusa basically saw there was space inside the chamber not being used and put it outside keeping the envelope
Last ditch effort? Prusa is growing. If you care about the people that make the products you use, you buy from Prusa. They take care of their people including retirement and Healthcare and all of their hardware and software is open source. Their products are made in the Czech Republic by Prusa, not farmed out to the lowest bidder in China.
For me, prusa takes it for a few specific reasons, if prusa stops existing, much of their machines can be replaced with off the shelf parts, bambu on the other hand is majority proprietary. prusa is made in europe with better working regulations and wages. prusa has great customer care and their up gradability is unbeaten in the market. As well as all that, prusa came from the open-source and built on it. bambu took from the open sauce, made it proprietary, using it to profit for themselves wile giving nothing back. i know my prusa is gonna work and keep printing at a good solid speed reliably, their not the fastest but with relatively little modding they can hold their own. If I need something done quick, i look to my voron .2 that can accelerate at twice the speed of a bambu and is half the price, as well as being completely open source and easily replaceable.
I'm totally with you on the issue, but I think that even European Companies HAVE to be competitive. Their whole market strategy can't be based all on petiness from customers. The same with electric cars unfortunatelly, Volkswagen (Vehicles of the people, literally) is selling EVs for 40k knowing they'll be the only one allowed in 6 years. Why shouldn't I buy a chines SUV EV that cost half the price and is genuinly better? Same with bambu, remember their response didn't come yet to the Prusa Core One. Their printers were released 2 years ago. I honestly think prusia underdelivered here. This printer with no easy multi color printing and somewhat a weirderd build volume already is not up to standard for today. I think the competition is once aganin gonna be blown away. Remember those guys come from DJI. DJI has virtually no competition, they even took on the GoPro market because the Westeners were so fucking incompetent. So too little too late from prusa.
@@lorenzolupica8833 European firms can never compete over the price tag alone, because if you care for your workers and your environment its more expensive then if you do not. Top that with "optimizing the conditions" in a country and you stand no chance. I think Prusa sits in a niche where they cater the needs of tinkerers and the niche is so big, that they can't manufacture enough goods (some Prusament is always sold out). And the tinkerer in me really likes the core one - while it may not be the right thing in a professionell environment, if you have upgraded your MK3 to MK4 and MK4s, you now can go the next step all while owning exactly one printer. So Prusa is not for one to start 3d printing as cheap as possible, but for people who care a bit more about non-shady practices and are up to pay premium for that on their hobby.
Totally agree, just want to add that Prusa was there for 3D printing development pretty much from the start, and if Bambu, Creality, and other even exists is because Prusa did most of the R&D in the first place and everything they've done was Open Source, they allowed the "cheap" 3D printing to be a thing, without them we coul still be stuck in the old rep/rap era where everything about 3D printing was DYI. Yes they are not ahead like they used to be, but products and longevity is good, and until now they never let customer down, with upgrade path after every big design update so you're never completely outdated. Not sure your Bambu X1 can become an X1+ / X2 whenever this thing comes out...
That may have been true at some point, but the "off the shelf components" business ain't true anymore. They aren't open source anymore. If Prusa goes under, unless they release their source, there's no replacing their electronics.
@taylorlandry641 those components are just as good, look at vorons, they are entirely off shelf parts that can beat their proprietary machines. As far as I can see thd only reason they do it is ease of manufacturing and to control the fixability of their products forcing you to buy replacements from them
The absolute biggest win for Prusa printers right now is the noise. A lot of us aren't running farms in separate rooms. Or maybe are even forced to have the 3D printer in their office. Then Prusa suddenly becomes your only out of the box FDM printer. I really hope more manufactures will take those things into consideration as well.
Here's my take on my recent dive into the world of 3D printing: Just a few months ago, I decided to finally pull the trigger on buying a 3D printer. It was an exciting time with the Prusa MK4S and Bambu models dominating the market. After doing my research, I found that both printers deliver similar output and quality, though Bambu usually comes at a lower price point. For me, the decision wasn't just about the printer itself. I've always valued open-source principles and the ability to tinker, upgrade, and customize. That's why I went with Prusa. It's a perfect match for someone like me who loves getting hands-on with technology. However, if I were running a business, the equation would change dramatically. Cost versus performance would be the deciding factor, and Bambu would likely be my choice for its economic advantages. Now, here's where my concerns lie with Bambu. They're often compared to Apple in the 3D printing world, aiming to dominate through what could be seen as under-pricing. My worry is what happens once they secure a significant market share. Could they start introducing restrictions? Like, maybe they'll limit printer usage time or charge for each print job? What about making the printer essentially a rental unit - sell it cheaper upfront but then you're paying as you go? And with the NFC technology on their filaments, there's a risk they might restrict you to only using Bambu-branded materials. Given that Bambu isn't just a startup but backed by heavy hitters in Chinese conglomerates with deep pockets, these scenarios don't seem far-fetched. This isn't just about price or technology; it's about control over what we own and how we use it. That's why I appreciate Prusa's commitment to open-source, which not only aligns with my values but also protects against some of these potential future restrictions. It's a lot to think about, but it's clear to me why I made the choice I did.
How is prusa perfect for someone who likes to get hands on? The hardware is closed source. An open source printer like maybe something like sovol would be far more geared towards that. Prusa _used_ to be for open source folks, but havent been for years.
@@BeefIngot Most Prusa printers come as kits that you assemble yourself - it doesn't get much more hands on unless you design your own printer. There are only a few hardware parts that are specific to the printer. Most parts are standard (motors, gears, rods, screws, etc.) or easily printed (all plastic parts). You can get the print files (and at least partial design sources, like SCAD or STEP files) online. You can buy ALL replacement parts for fair prices on their web shop - you could assemble a full functioning printer from their spare parts store. If you feel like it you can even get the designs for their electronics and the sources for their firmware. If I wanted to build another copy of my Prusa MK4 without buying a single part from Prusa: I would have to reverse engineer only 3 hardware parts - main frame, print bed and the aluminium frame of the hot end. None of those would be a real hurdle, but they'd be expensive to make as a one-off. The electronics I could just order from a PCB manufacturer using Prusa's original design files - again the one-off cost would be higher than buying the part from Prusa. Anything else would be cheap standard parts or printed PETG parts with designs downloaded from Prusa. This is the MOST Open Source that I have seen in any complex hardware. What else would you want?
@KonradTheWizzard Assembling the printers is a gimmick that doesn't actually teach you anything of worth to justify the time spent. The savings also don't even bring them in line with the competition. There are many more parts than you've stated that are closed and I would bet that vs Bambulab Prusa is at maybe 40% proprietary vs Bambulabs 60%. Further, consider that the Core one in particular only really has the 2 gimmicky side panels availible open source. Everything else is closed, and anything that 8snt just so happens to be a standardized part such as a bearing or motor. Sovol has truly open source printers where you even get pcb schematics (quite important and something Prusa obfuscate and does not provide). In essence there is a whole lot more open source wise you could want out of a printer.
@@BeefIngot I assembled my own MK4 a few months ago. For me it taught me how it is put together, where to find potential problems and most importantly to not be afraid of taking it apart. For me that is VERY important.
As a hobbyist of close to 10 years now I was fairly excited when I first heard about Bambu's printers and how easy they would be to use. But due to Bambu Lab's behavior since launching, I will not touch one of their machines. Most of those reasons have been mentioned in this video so no need to restate them here. Instead I will choose to pay a little more and support a company that gives back to the maker community instead of stealing from creators for their own benefit. Not to mention the top notch reliability of a Prusa and the fact I can make any and all repairs myself. Despite my feelings toward Bambu, I am glad they are pushing the market and I would actually recommend one of their lower end models to someone who is simply clueless about 3D printing and just wants to print some fun little toys. Anyone who is more serious about 3D printing as a hobby I would recommend a Prusa. Sort of like the difference of a tabletop player buying figures pre-painted and those who paint miniatures as the hobby itself. I am not a business user so I have no opinions in that regard.
@@Keveira Well, several are mentioned as I said in the video, but here ya go. Firstly they launched with users being forced to send prints through the Internet to their servers in China. Then they had a debacle where many of the printers started printing on their own because of the afore mentioned prints going through their servers. They also incorporate a lot of open hardware design but do not give back to the open hardware community. Then they started a print model web site which was obviously the stolen code base of another popular print model site and in order to populate it they web scraped data and files from other web sites without the permission of the model designers or the sites they scraped from. I don't have to have 3D printers to survive so I choose to have standards for the companies I will buy from. Personally I don't think having those ethics standards is silly.
@@ObitusJoeUnfortunately most people don't see things the way you do. Most people care about price and nothing more. Since China doesn't believe in property rights they can save a lot of development costs and offer things for cheap.
I have to be that guy. Your info is wrong. Whether it be through ignorance or malice I will correct you. 1. You could *ALWAYS* print offline(sd card). I am an original kickstarter backer (2022) so that misinfo about needing the cloud to print has NEVER been a requirement. It as only gotten better with LAN only mode(over wifi) and little known FTP. 2. Making a website that houses models isn't a novel idea. Thangs, printables, yeggi, Thingiverse. Will you accuse (Prusa)Printables of copying (Ultimaker)Thingiverse, which came out first? 🤔 3. Printing without a slicer(from a cell phone) came with Ankermake first but was quickly implemented and supported better with Bambu. That has been COPIED by Prusa. Where is your outrage for Anker against Prusa for copying? 😒 4. The advancements in Opensource in Bambu studio has been implemented in Orca and Prusa slicer Step file implementation, multiplates, svg all bambu first. 4a.They also licensed their nozzle tech to E3d and half of the license fee goes to Sanjay Mortimer Foundation. So they are giving back to the community. 5. Makerworld files are USER uploaded. Point to a maker who states their files were taken by bambu directly. Any files that are user uploaded fraudulently can be taken down easily with a copyright claim. You are probably the type who think looking at the inspect element of a website is haxxing...🤣 They even allow X1C users to roll back to earlier firmware to use Open source custom firmware. This can allow addon boards that include usb and ethernet. They are not heavy handed with mods like the hydra ams mod, light bars, fans, bento boxes and even recommended mods for the p1p before it was overshadowed by the p1s. Open source hardware is OPEN TO ALL. private users, education, companies. All licenses are followed and adhered. Anything created inhouse does not need to be shared. Even Prusa is closing some hardware designs as is their right. For the love that is holy do some basic research. If you like a company for any reason that is your decision but no need to spread refutable junk to justify it.
1. I know you could always print through SD card. I was referencing network connectivity. And I also know they have made it an option to not use their service while using network connectivity. But when it launched you had to send prints over the Internet to China if you wanted to use NETWORK connectivity. And a result of this was a bunch owners discovering their printers connected to said service printed by themselves due to a cloud service restart. That's a big red flag for me. Sorry, I was not more clear. 2. I was not accusing them of stealing because they implemented the same concept for a web site as someone else. Their site was a clear and direct recolor of another. You can debate whether using the near exact design and a lot of code base is stealing but in my book it is very bad form and another red flag. If you don't have the talent to write your own code or create your own design hire better talent. When a company shows me they take a lot of shortcuts it is a sign I probably don't want their product. 3. Not sure of the point here. I never mentioned anything about printing without a slicer or Bambu stealing features. I have no issues with any functionality of Bambu printers. 4. Maybe you skipped my original post. It really seems like you did. From my original post: "Despite my feelings toward Bambu, I am glad they are pushing the market and I would actually recommend one". My criticism for lack of contribution is purely on the open hardware side and is my personal preference for a 3D printer manufacturer. 4a. Ok. Charity is great. I am specifically talking about open hardware and in particular in regards to the 3D printing community. But again, great. 5. I will concede this point 100%. It seems it was a user that was performing the mass uploads of other people's models to Makerworld which is what I was referencing. And for the record I write HTML/XML/Javascript/PHP for a living so big swing and a miss there. And a point I did not mention was Bambu Labs admitted malicious behavior on a competitors site: "These testers did upload a handful of models to Printables, including a sparse few problematic ones, and even reported some of them to check the moderation procedures so we can calculate how many head count should we reserve for moderators. All these models were subsequently removed by our testers if not previously moderated by Printables. There was no malintent in this activity, and no harm was inflicted upon anyone, other than the very minor added workload of moderation for the moderator." That was not only breaking TOU but is very bad form and shady behavior. They only mentioned it on their site because they were caught. You run your tests on your own site with your own employees/resources. Not sure what you do for a living but I am sure you would not want a competitor abusing your resources for their gain. It really does seem like you did not read my original post but I hope this clarifies my opinions.
Exactly my thoughts. I know a friend with 4 printers and all that was needed was just a support ticket and the machine logs and they sent them the exact replacement part he needed.
I'm still on the Prusa side of thins. I really don't like the security / privacy concerns with the Bambu, and I already hate how much filament I waste doing multi-color with MMU3. The Bambu wastes a ton more. I'm eyeing an XL5T, but also hoping it gets an update soon.
For me multi head is the only way I’m comfortable doing multi material. I don’t know how people stomach wasting half their filament just for some colors on a sculpture that, let’s be real here, would look MUCH better off a resin printer. Unless you need a design for engineering work I’d say a single filament is probably your best option.
It's crazy that an industry this huge didn't have any companies truly innovating and a brand new company was able to come in and immediately become the new standard of which even the established companies are now chasing.
Unreal take to say they didn’t innovate. They were the first to do force bed probing, lidar, and ams. Not to mention the welded chassis and rfid tags. And before you find some obscure example of someone who did these things first, they clearly integrated it better and refined it since there the first widespread use of any of these. It is the first and borderline still only printer in the world that simply works, and that is what the mass market desired. It went from a toy hobbies used to make little gizmos to a true engineering tool (and also print a hell of a lot more gizmos lol)
Prusa needs a 350x350x350 color combo killer and the Core One isn’t it. It’s just a stop gap to a longer term problem. Nobody cares about a nice nook for their filament or a built in tool cabinet. Convenient, but the market doesn’t want gimmicks. They want a bigger build plate and color.
What the community really want is fast and large idex printers. Maybe nobody is saying but till one appear with a volume of +300mm +800mm speed but also doest need any work from the user to align anything and offset is always perfect for both nozzles then everyone will leave these ams systems
I'm hoping they will scale up the Core One to a larger bed size at some point. But it's pretty sweet that they offer an upgrade from Mk4s to Core One, which explains the print volume. And it's nice that they managed to squeeze out a little extra volume on the same plates. As for color, the MMU3 has been performing pretty well for me. They need to improve the usability of that thing; compared to the AMS it is a real pain to load filament into that thing. There's a few aftermarket options to do away with the buffer, which makes for easier loading and a smaller footprint.
Wait so rather than simply replace a part and get a Bambu printer working again you'll just toss it? That seems insane! I have 3 X1C's each with over 1000 hours and no major issues at all. So far I have been able to fix and repair anything needed. Bambu has a great detailed Wiki on how to fix anything on the machine. I started with Prusa and loved them but they are just too $$ for what you get and I just want results and Bambu is doing that at the moment. I am still confused why you can't fix those 2 printers though!
This dude is ridiculous. A force bed sensor is $5. He will sideline a $700 or$1200 printer than spend $5 and follow the wiki or $120 for a new heat bed? but he had no issues dropping 4-5k on an XL and build it ? Me thinks his reasoning is beyond suspect and borders on ridiculous. a single heatbed tile for the XL is $23 x16= $368
@@damiengvideos4337 definitely not tossing them in the bin. Just saying they are unusable until I find time to repair them and I’m a bit intimidated by the process. I’m probably overthinking it. It might not be as bad as I’m anticipating.
@@No0o0o0o0o0 it’s not an issue of cost. It’s an issue of time. I’m perceiving it to be a difficult process given how tightly integrated the printer is. But I could be mistaken. I’ll tackle it at some point and find out.
Lol. Prusa was like the what 3d printers aspired to be in the early days. A well established 3d printer brand, that could charge that much back then. They fell off big time because they didn't do anything for years. They let all of the Chinese brands surpass them in every way. It doesn't make sense anymore to try to sell expensive 3d printers to the consumer market. Many early brands also bit the dust. At the end of the day, its abou5 marketshare, cause everyone is racing to the bottom. Prusa gonna bite to dust too, if they arent gaining marketshare.
@oneanother1 so buy Chinese if you do not like prusa. You either do not like product or you do. Decision is all yours. If I would be taking to account all those arbitrary "problems" you mentioned I would have a hard time to buy even toilet paper
@@nex7053 well, that is why people are moaning, especially prusa fanboys. If they didn't care, then no moaning. The core one is fine, except the price isn't.
@@oneanother1 well they are not chinese sweatshop employing kids for bowl of rice and building safety nets to prevent suicides. And price is not that bad 30k in CZK is completely ok for locally produced product - it is one third up since when I was buying mk3s but I get full enclosure. Prusa fans are not ones moaning. Those who are moaning would like to have custom made printer to satisfy all their quirks. Prusa fan will understand that prusa is developing open ecosystem of enduser printer with upgradability and interchangeable parts in mind. You maybe can get cheaper bamboo, but when next iteration of printers will be available or new technology you will have to buy new one, but with prusa, you will always have way to do cheap upgrade.
It's not about being first to market, but doing it right. We've seen multiple Chinese manufactured printers that are fire hazards, and their first response was to downplay the danger, and only did something after being called out on it.
I'm still on a Tevo Tarantula... One of those chinese fire hazards... Altough, I don't remember it shipping back in 2017 with a magnetic print bed, a Hemera XS revo extruder, a Misumi linear rail for the bed or any of the other thousand little things I upgraded.
@@krollmond7544 Bambu didn't downplay the danger at all with the A1. The power coord issues were a rarity and were only recalled as a safety precaution. They probably suffered more reputation damage from an over safe A1 recall versus just downplaying the danger.
Right? I am nearing 3000 hours with my X1 and the only thing I've had to change was a hotend. All parts are listed on the website and a simple video watch shows you how to tear them down and put them back together. It's easy.
I had a heat bed sensor problem on my P1S, contacted support and in about a week I had a new heat bed. Took less than an hour to replace and I’m 1000+ hours with it. I’ll buy your X1Cs if you’re gonna throw them out
1k hours and your allready experiencing MAJOR failures in your printer... and you consider that a win? my mk3s+ had 6k print hours when i sold it and was printing allmost like new only changed the nozzle and gave it lube/grease...
@@1bonebreaker1 I don't know why all the people fighting in the comment but I went and looked at what is the heat bed sensor and it was 5$ thing and when I looked at it at prusa website for their printers it was sold out. I'm not fanboy for either companies but I own A1 and I'm happy with it since it was affordable and plug and play I only lubed the Y axis so far since it remind me every month or so. people should stop being fan boys and just let the companies fight to produce better products. if we stick to one side and contune buying without looking logically not emotionally we only getting the short end of the stick if there no competing there is no need for companies to improve their products since they have crazy fanboys who will buy their products even if it's not the best. I would gladly trade my A1 if I was able to get better printer with same price but better features, reliability, and availability of spare parts. and not to forget the ease of use. I only care about my own self as an end user.
My MK3S+ has printed well over 10,000 hours and all it has needed are hotend thermistors and a couple print fans. That is pretty crazy that a Bambu heatbed is shot after a fraction of what my Prusa has done.
I have 2K hours on my X1C, had one issue in the start got solved for free within a week. Even if they are closing the printers and require a subscription a lot of people will stay with Bambu, the others will keep the hardware and flash them with new firmware. Prusa on the other had, sure they do have alright costumer service, I'll give them that but their printers are behind on specs and insanely expensive for what you get. I expect another brand will take over soon, Prusa really need to step up their game if they want to keep up, even with the mishaps by bambu atm.
Having owned most printers from both Bambu and Prusa, I can confirm both are fantastic - which is best for you depends on use case. If I were to recommend a printer for a home user or even a print farm startup with a budget, I’d probably say pickup a P1S - great quality, speed and ease of use. I also like the ability to chain AMS units for 16 color prints. That being said, I have an issue that requires some of my time to fix on the X1s and P1Ss around once every 100 hours or so (and the purging with the AMS is extremely inefficient - hoping they optimize it more in firmware updates). My XLs and MK4Ss are dead reliable, rarely ever having any kind of issue at all. The experience is a little less user friendly for beginners, but getting better with each update. They are also easy to work on if I do want or need to. If you are more experienced or need as little downtime and material waste as possible, it’s Prusa for me. The upgrade path makes them cheaper in the long run as well. BTW- there is a camera option on the Core One.
These are great points and observations, especially that the plug and play of Bambu appears somewhat of a gimmick where they downstream-ed the time and efforts to keep them running on the back end no one thinks about when impulse buy vs the front end where most consumers keep their undying focus. This is likely the only wave Bambu can keep all the features and specs affordable and competitive.
The purge in Bambu can be manually tuned with test prints as it is filament specific the the particular spools and order you print in. Options are in bs/orca
@ The flaw is in the lack of retraction and the cut point leaving so much in the heatbreak to purge - that needs a firmware fix. They did one fix recently, but it wasn’t enough.
I bought my mother a Bambulab A1, and while the printer prints in much higher quality than my personal MK4S, the plastic parts on it always seem to break. The purge wiper broke within a week, and the webstore also seems to always be out of stock with replacement parts. A week ago, the AMS Lite filament hub broke, and I'm scrambling to fix it before Christmas. I love the metal parts on my Prusa MK4S. The printer feels sturdy, and I haven't had a part break since I got it as a MK4. The Core One hasn't sold me whatsoever, and I thank you for the information and non-biased opinions you have provided in this video.
all BambuLab printers support a LAN-only mode where it is not connected to anything outside of your own local network. You can still send prints over to your printer via the local network but don't have any cloud capability (the App becomes useless). You can also just use the micro SD-card.
The ego of Prusa's CEO has always been a major red flag for me. Also, it doesn't matter if it's made in the EU or not if the product can't compete technically. They've been using 3D PRINTED PARTS on their printers for YEARS instead of like, idk, standard molded plastic just like any other multimillion dollar company would use. That's just straight up amateurish at that point.
At my makerspace, when people ask about what kind of printer they should get, I ask them: Which do you want? A printer that you can unbox and print with, or one that teaches you about how they are built and want to learn from? If they are just looking for a set it up and work printer, I tell them to get a Bambu printer. If they want a project and want to know more, I tell them to get a Prusa kit and build it. A Prusa Mk3s was donated to our space and in the month that we've had it, it's been used more and failed less than the Ender 5 and Anycubic machines we have on the bench. And all of this depends on your use case. I do casual 3D printing, with functional parts and some cosplay props. I don't sell my things, so having a quick printer isn't my focus, but it may be for others. I look for accuracy and the ability to print tougher materials, and have been rocking a single toolhead XL since I received my pre-order machine. I do see the mindset of saying that Prusa is meeting Bambu at their level, but even the MK4 seemed more of a "We did the research on making this awesome Nextruder, can we put it on a MK3s and make a faster bed slinger?", while the Core One seems less like "How do we compete with Bambu" and more of a "How do we make a smaller version of the XL out of a MK4?"
So you ask them, do you want a product that works or do you want to stay poor? Seems like the only correct answer is Bambu. Why would you buy something to do a task that doesn’t do the task without significant time investment? I mean unless the dude is designing a better 3d printer, you don’t need to learn about it. A 3d printer is an appliance. You wouldn’t use the same criteria for your stove or TV or lawn tractor. You just buy stuff that works. The days of people who are just inquisitive about 3d printing with plenty of time to waste to print trinkets is over. 3d printing now prints usable things. So it’s time for 3d printers to be treated like an appliance and not a hobby.
Funny enough, I currently have an Elegoo Neptune 4 pro. Works beautifully and at $210, I would argue better value than the A1 mini. My problem with the market currently is that a few years ago, we talked about every manufacturer. Now we act like there are only 2.
Excellent video! The same thing happened in the car industry. Everything has pivoted to turn key out of the box experience. But now cars can’t be fixed or worked on at home or by local shops without going back to the manufacturer. This is a right/ability to repair issue. I’ll support that every time. These are big long term investments. Your video also did a good job of explaining that Bambu is expanding the market and maybe going down market to more mainstream people with less tinker ability. As someone who got into printing with a Prusa before bambu existed, this video was super helpful for me to catch up on what the heck is going on.
ruclips.net/video/DwhnArkZTu8/видео.html Whatever communist China make will always explode. Many people got terrible experiences and I will never buy them again. We prefer EU quality Prusa!
I am seriously considering this as my first PLA printer. One of the leading factors for me is the noise a printer makes, the mk4s is supposedly already very quiet, and Prusa customer support told me the Core One significantly more than even that. And the fact that Prusa Labs are 20min drive also helps
As a hobbyist, and not a "prosumer with a 3D-Print Factory", I will only have a single printer at any time. I have the time to tinker on the printer itself, and my money is an investment; so repair-ability, upgrade-ability, reliability and an actual upgrade-path is more important than a slightly lower price, it working out of the box(I buy KIT). Simply doing a "write-off" on 2 out of 4 printers can make sense in a business-perspective; you have probably had full Return-On-Investment on those machines and will simply order new and potentially faster machines that work out of the box with a smaller price-tag, and continue with your business. You don't care if the printer is assembled by actual slaves, in a factory that spews out toxins, designed by people that stole every idea they ever had, sold by a company that have contributed absolutely NOTHING to the community, have no interest supporting their products long-term, or that the printer is most likely sending your designs back to China. Cheap and easy is better than everything else...
My first 3D printer was an Ultimaker 2e+, hugely expensive, but at the time, it really seemed like the best thing out there. Around the time MK3s came out, I got an Ultimaker 3e, again, hugely expensive, but it really seemed like something else back then! Now, 5 years later, my UM3e is mostly forgotten, it's still here, I still have some 2.85mm filament for it, it still works, but it's features just aren't there. I honestly got jealous when I saw Prusa send out major firmware updates for older printers, heck even the Mini got major boost in performance, yet Ultimaker has abandoned older printers long ago. I'm pretty sure that once I spend my 2.85mm filament, I'll take out all the proprietary parts from that UM3e, and give it a single nozzle head with Trianglelab parts or something like that. I did something similar with UM2e+, and it's still being used. Way back when, I also bought some (much much much) cheaper CR-10s pro's, and with cheap upgrades, they are still running, very reliably. The whole experience thought me to avoid expensive and proprietary stuff. Core One looks super cool, if someone gifted it to me, I'd gladly use it, but I would never buy it. Not when I can get an Infimech Tx and get all the performance I need from it, right out of the box, and if it starts falling behind, it will be very easy to change/upgrade what I feel like. Prusa has its audience, and many fans, so I have no doubt that Core One will sell well, but I fell it's just not interesting enough to justify that price in the current market.
Good video. Definitely getting core one now. The cost of the machine is not that big a deal long term but seeing how much more less plastic it wastes. It seems like over the life of the printer the savings in plastic would pay for the difference in cost. Excellent video.
-Longevity -Customer service -You can just buy the upgrade kit to transform your Mk4 to the Core One so you get the machine for half the price of a comparable new machine I totally see the selling point. Especially professionals who value customer service can't overlook this.
U completely disregard the fact that the Mk4 itself is a overpriced machine. So u in total paying as much as an x1c with the ams. I dont think it is possible prusa fan are all this ignorant, im guessing most are bots now so 010010101101010101
A lot of people ignore these, but the reliability, ease of repair, and expectations of future compatibility from Prusa is amazing. People say they're expressive, and they are, not for someone who just wants to tinker with a 3d printer. But, for someone who wants that quality and the brand behind it, it's worth it. There's no reason so many print farms would have Prusa if they weren't worth it to at least some people.
@@tired5925 The MK4 is expensive yes, but not overpriced for what it offers. They offer an amount of service, quick repairability, and customer service you don't quite get from other 3d printers. I will say, these benefits make it more of a print-farm style printer, than one many people would want as their only printer. It doesn't have the same versatility as an enclosed and multicolor 3d printer, but that's not their target with the device. Their target are people who repeatably want to print quality on the few things they do print, and be able to make repairs and upgrades in the future.
@@dfwdweghom8902 This is correct as stated by Prusa so far. It would be upsetting if there wasn't a specific upgrade kit from MK4 to Core One. You CAN buy the MK4S upgrade for the MK4, but surely a MK4 to Core One conversion shouldn't cost the entire extra 100 USD to do.
I wanted to buy a Bamboo X1 Carbon but due to the newest "Security" feature update of Bamboo I try to find out, if a model of PRUSA also have "Active Vibration Compensation" function to have smooth lines. Can somebody give an answer on this, to know if MK4S or Core one does have such a stabilisation feature, what about Qidi Plus 4
The 3D printing community we watched grow & develop is in the middle of another evolution. As a former long standing Prusa fan, I've sold off my Prusa products. At the end of the day, the company that gives us the most features for the best price will win. Until someone beats Bambu at their own game, they will continue to rise to the top. Sure, people care about the morals that developed the community - Prusa was at the forefront of that but for how long will people care? Prusa really screwed up with this release IMO. They had an opportunity to respond strong to Bambu's X1C and what did they do instead? Gave us less features for a considerable amount more than the X1C. The community loyalty that shielded Prusa is coming to an end. Eventually people will stop caring about the past and Prusa will be left behind as another company in history that got too comfortable at the top and stopped innovating (see Blackberry).
@@FarrelClement Many people ore prepared to pay a premium to receive premium features (X1C vs P1S is an example). What the OP has said is correct - Prusa are charging a premium without any value-add, and that's why their hole is getting deeper.
@@FarrelClement prusa didn't even tried. I knew prusa printer since 2017 and until 2019 where I decided to get a printer, they still are not available unless I paid a ridiculous delivery fee (they have no competition during this period). And they have a killer machine Prusa XL but didn't bother to release a price down ver where it would be far more competitive than a X1 clone
That the right mindset for customers. This applies to any other market. If there is competition, there will be better products, but if there is none, companies won't see any need to improve, and this will reflect on us as consumers.
With the new "Adversary Controlled Applications Act" hitting Chinese companies, America's current political situation, and Bambu's forced cloud and possible pivot towards requiring subscription on the imagined horizon... I don't think I'll be buying a Bambu printer for the next couple years at least.
Prusa for me. If I can’t slice and print locally I don’t want it. For censorship/privacy/IP protection concerns I don’t want anyone else involved in my printing.
@@04th57 bambu printers still collect your data even when on LAN. The collected data is just stored in the memory until the moment you connect to the cloud, like to update your printer. Bambu will get your data one way or another, like it or not.
I have a Bambu X1C with AMs at work, and recommend the Bambu ecosystem to everybody interested in 3D printers because of how incredibly trouble free it has been. The only problems we have had are hot ends breaking when they crash against a part which had failed bed adhesion (but they are cheap to replace) and GF/CF filaments breaking in the AMS a couple times. I should also say that I have only needed to replace hot ends 3-4 times, but that is the failure mode, not wearing out from abrasive filament. We have roughly 2,500 hours on our machine at this point. I ended up buying a P1S w/ AMS for home (and run it in LAN only mode) because of my experience with the X1C. I think my only big reason to go with anybody other than Bambu is to avoid China Cloud Services. For reference, we run almost exclusively Bambu filament (PETG-CF, PAHT-CF, PA6-GF, ASA, TPU-HF, for production; PLA and PETG-HF for tools/fixtures and quick mock-ups).
Prusa had crash detection since MK3S. Bambu breaking hotend when not that rare printing issue occurs is sign of poor design. Bambu is good printer, but in long term reliability Prusa is the winner.
I have a similar experience. I have an X1C and P1S using Bambu filaments. Apart from minor failures (z height detection failure and failure to retract filament), it has been a joy to use the Bambu Labs ecosystem. The printers come with a bunch of the consumables and replacements are inexpensive (wipers, blade cutters, etc). And if you don't want to print from the Bambu Cloud service, you don't have to. Octoprint has preliminary support for Bambu printers and the old SD card works fine as well.
@@jan.bednarik Prusa crash detection has notoriously not worked well since the mk3s. Furthermore, Bambu also has crash detection. Furthermore, the heat break breaking is actually the best point to fail as its the cheapest point to replace.
and now there is a new issue... also, regarding the "print with up to 16 colours", if you actually need all 16 in a single print, you'll probably end up with 90% of filament wasted
While I view the Prusa as premium product, I actually think they managed to keep the price reasonable considering the feature set. Is it the best deal on the market? Definitely not. I think Qidi probably has the sweet spot for price to high performance. That said, for printing mostly PLA and easier filaments, there are many better deals. Pros and cons to every brand, but I think the Prusa should be in consideration for anyone who wants a well supported, reliable, repairable machine which isn't totally made in China.
@hlop_vmp You are focusing on a single aspect, material type. There are absolutely products which are made from plastic which are more premium and generally superior to metal counterparts and vice versa. Premium also does not just imply quality or performance. Premium is often about a brand and isn't even necessarily a good thing. It can be adjacent to luxury. High quality doesn't always mean better overall. I used the term intentionally to imply the bad and the good. General quality should be high, but they are also charging a premium, if you will.
Go with the core one, Bambulab is not going well at the moment and they are making some really bad software choices - there is some good videos on YT if you're interested
Don’t forget that the CORE One boasts the ability to print PLA with the door closed, which is a pretty big deal if you want to print PLA on your desk next to you.
@@Azreal34 Right, so Bambu expressly, in writing, states that standard PLA must be printed with the door open, in order to provide ventilation, avoiding issues with the extruder. How do you get around that, and is your procedure approved by Bambu?
@@Amarand Get around what? I am not contractually obligated to follow any of their suggestions on printing. I am telling you what works and you seem worried about their recommendations. I get that you are trying to dig up whatever you can to make Bambu sound bad and Prusa sound good. But you sound pretty silly here. Both companies make great products that people should consider. Neither needs you to shill for them or try to make the other sound bad.
Got my Bambu A1 Christmas Day. It was already a paperweight and never printed a single thing. I then found out; Bambu has no automated returns process. They have no support phone number. They will make YOU pay to return there sh**y product. 7 days and still no response from their support team. Don't buy Bambu Labs stuff, there's a reason it's so cheap
As a long time sufferer of the unworkable MMU2 (firmware was simply crap) and the MMU3 (endless tip tuning per filament) I can honestly say that comparing it to the Bambu AMS just shows the massive gap Prusa has in the multi material space. Prusa has nothing. Also the Bambu X1C is not throw away at all ... the parts to fix are easily available on the Bambu website and are really cheap. It's also very easy to work on and service and a very robust unit. Bambu parts are much better priced than Prusa parts. Prusa is just unable to compete on price. That said their work in the OpenSource space is to be commended particularly with their slicer.
Prusa has nothing? They have the XL, which is a lot less wasteful and can achieve actual multi material. The bambu is multi-colour, not true multimaterial.
How did prusa fall so far behind, when they appeared to be leading years back? If prusa himself were an engineer, then maybe things could have turned out different. It hard to support or depend prusa these days with what they are charging. Yeah, they really need to make their multicolor less diy looking, and more hassle free. That alone should be no go in 2025 when buying a 3d printer for multicolor.
They have a similar approach to noctua, give their engineers time to get things perfect so advancement has always been a bit slower, just in a new market with lower cost alternatives from china with actually good performance being pumped out faster and fatser their slower innovation strategy doesn't work as well anymore. That said they still have their european manuafturing and sourcing going for them, I do some times wonder how cheap prusa machines would be if they were made in china instead of europe.@@oneanother1
The MMU2 was a product with a known design defect. I fought with that thing for so many hours. I replaced the logic board, I replaced all of the servos (one by one). I printed custom feeds and pretty much every part from scratch. I contacted support. I started multiple threads. I wasted so much time trying to get that thing working. And the best I got was "keep trying, you'll get it!". No. I didn't get it working because it was a faulty design. And to prove it, I took that little power board from the MMU3 and put it on my MMU2 and it stopped giving the 5 flashing lights. I will never forgive Prusa for that experience. I got my P1S with MMU and it's night and day. In just one year, I have as many hours on my bambu than I was able to achieve with my Prusa in 6 years. I spent so many hours with it fiddling and fighting. skywardsoul, unless you have ever suffered with an MMU2 unit then I don't think you can understand why we see Prusa as a piece of crap. And the XL at $4000 is not a consumer printer, nor is it a competitor to the P1S or the X1C. EDIT: Oh and don't forget the time they told me I needed to flash the firmware, then the zip download for the MMU2 didn't have the right files in it.
Yet being manufactured in EU has not guaranteed better reliability or serviceability than the chinese BL, and that's according to people running print farms, not hobbyists.
My Bambu X1C with AMS has over 7000 hours on it. It finally broke the XY belts at 7080 hours. Not sure why your Bambus have broken, but that isn't the normal experience. Your Bambus aren't working because you haven't taken the time to fix them. In the two years of ownership, I have spent probably $175 in replacement parts to include a couple of hot ends, an extruder (but found the old one still works so it's now a spare), the XY belts, some PTFE tubing, two tension pulleys, and a controller fan. Mine actually prints better than it did when I got it due to the firmware and software updates. I'm in a wait and see mode as far as the new "firmware" everyone is saying will lock everything down. I don't think it will affect my workflow, but I'm not a business. I also print using Bambu slicer and use the app so no customizations. I've sure gotten my money's worth out of this printer.
I got a p1s earlier this year and just picked up an almost brand new mk3s for $200 just because i wanted a prusa.... options and competition are awesome there is a place for both.
Hi YGK3D, thanks for the balanced coverage. I just found your channel. What are the light gray blocks under your printers? They look like concrete pavers, perhaps? If you have a video that covers your setup, please let me know. Thanks!
Even a Prusa fanboy like me, must accept the fact that Prusa just ain't leading the market at this point. They still have many good aspects, but they have been sitting on their hands for too many years until they released the MK4. The relase of Core One isn't a fix to the challenges they face. However, I hope it's the beginning of a new chapter that MIGHT bring them back to a place among the leading pack. I hope that improvements to Core One will follow in rapid succession with features like: - A native and integrated camera, - automated flow calibration, - actively heated chamber, - higher extruder and bed temperatures. - Prusa LINK functionality at the level of Prusa Connect. Also, a lot of great features have existed in Orca for some time and only a few are slowly finding their way to Prusa Slicer (Alpha). Tools for easier filament tuning are still missing in Alpha, but it is nice to finally have multi-beds and paint-on fuzzy skin.
I have two MK4S', and I will upgrade both once the upgrade becomes available. However, I am definitely in the tinkerer category, so it is probably a core (meh?) Prusa customer. My printers started as kits and will remain as long as Prusa releases upgrades. They are basically maintenance-free and produce print after print without any issues. The MMU3 works, and yes, out of the box, it takes up a lot of space, but I have my spools wall-mounted above the printer using rewinding spool holders, and then we're in the AMS-size territory. It's not as slick looking, I'll give you that :)
There are lots of ways for Chinese companies to get government subsidies. For example, it’s possible to get free office space. If you’re using semiconductors, you can benefit from subsidized domestic chips (China’s response to the US semiconductor embargo was to pump billions of dollars in to domestic chips). There are even ways for companies to recover loses from the government in certain cases. I suspect Bambu is a beneficiary of these subsidies, meaning they are able to sell for low margins in order to win market share and force competitors out of business. This may sound fine, as we consumers are benefiting, but there is a long term threat. China is no longer content making stuff for Western and Japanese brands who then get the lion’s share of the margins. I don’t know that there’s a central government level strategy here, but in any case, the net effect will be Western brands will be forced to close, with significant economic impacts, and a reduction in consumer choice. I also have it on good authority that Bambu uses similar shady marketing tactics as DJI (Bambu is funded by DJI’s investment arm), where they’ll employ people to smear the competition (DJI reportedly has a 50 person “black ops team” who are employed to post negative comments about their competitors). Is this the kind of behavior we want to reward?
@@JonS I'm disappointed to see you spreading such insane conspiracies. It started out fine though I should point out that their initial investments were public and you can see it directly so no reason to assume, but gets really insane by the end. You're at the same level as saying Prusa has a bit farm where funnily enough comments look more like that's true than they've ever looked like that's true for Bambu and they've looked that way from before Bambu ever existed.
@ I was at a company that was on the receiving end of DJI disinformation. One year, customers noticed a strangely large number of negative comments online about our new product. A few of them were able to trace back where they originated from (they weren’t covering their tracks back then). As I said, I have it on good authority that Bambu uses the same tactics. And that good authority is not just a random commenter on the internet.
@@JonS "And that good authority is not just a random commenter on the internet." It most certainly is. Your story quite frankly goes off into the deep end of delusion. It would be equally as believable if you said you worked as a spy for a 3 letter agency; that is to say that there is literally no evidence, proof or reasoning justifying any of this crazy claim.
@@JonS You as far as anyone could possibly discern are simply spreading FUD on the internet. Fanciful stories about proof you pinky promise totally exists but no one else knows about and which cant be shared.
As far as anyone could possibly discern this is simply rumours being spread on the internet. Fanciful stories about proof someone pinky promises totally exists but no one else knows about and which cant be shared.
I’m looking to venture into the 3D printing hobby space. With decades in the IT industry, the idea of a Chinese, walled garden, cloud based product is actually terrifying. The Bambu feature set is definitely compelling, but I’m beyond over China’s industrial espionage tactics.
I am at 1.7k hours and 774 hours across my two x1c printing mostly pretty harsh ABS, ASA, and CF- materials and have needed very minimal maintenance compared to any other printer I have worked with from two Formlabs Fuse 1's, dozens of Lulzbot, dozens of Creality Ender's, several Voron, and a Trumpf TruPrint 5000 The Bambu Lab X1C has needed the least service and has been the most fire and forget of any printer I have experienced, the worst part is greasing the back lead screw, while even on machines that are coming close to $1,000,000 when you factor in all of the accessories, installation, shipping and training, the amount of down time is truly unreal, sometimes 2+ weeks to have a service technician come to service the equipment.
I’ve seen a bunch of 3D printers in action, and it really depends on what you want to print. But if you stick with it, you’ll get to making nice prints eventually. Prusa 3D printers are legit amazing. I’ve got an MK4S at home, and I love how well-designed it is. It’s super easy to use, and the fact that you can upgrade it is such a huge plus. The print quality is awesome, everything I’ve made so far looks great, even the detailed stuff. But what I like the most is how reliable it is. I’ve done some pretty long prints, and it just keeps going without any issues. It’s one of those machines that makes you feel like you nailed the decision.The Core One printer is great, it looks promising in many ways as it is well thought out and I really like it a lot.
Interesting video and opinions. However, it always bugs me how many 3D Print RUclipsrs are solely focused on cost and what the best deal is for you as a consumer/hobbyist. I'm not a Prusa fanboy by any means, but I strongly believe that reparability, upgradability and making our machines as efficient as possible in terms of reducing plastic waste and energy, should be our top priority! And that this concern should supersede total cost. We only got this one planet guys.. And on these points, I believe Prusa still is, by far the strongest contender in the market.
Core one looks really cheap with the stamped sheet metal. It is still a diy kit. I don't mind it being that, but it definitely not the level of manufacturing that other 3d printer companies have now. 3d printers nowadays don't have to cost a lot to make them print well.
If you're buying a printer based on how the machine looks, let's be honest, you aren't buying it to make things, you're just buying it to have a trendy conversation piece.
@@dreadpiraterobertsiv no, I'm basing it how well engineered it is. There's a difference from those who built a bambulab 3d printer and the diy 3d type machines. We are looking for innovation from the machine, we just aren't seeing it on the prusa core one. They pretty much transfered the mk4 parts onto a corexy design. Prusa really needs to take a mass production approach to making a product. They should know that if they aren't competitive, well no one is going to buy their machines. Idk, they really need to I!prove their multicolor design, that has never seemed to work flawlessly since it was conceived years ago.
@@dreadpiraterobertsiv I get your point but there are multiple options with equal or better performance at the same or lower cost with better aesthetics for most of Prusa's products, other than their multihead printers which Bambu is scheduled to release in Q1 next year as well.
Just my two cents as the owner of a print farm: infrastructure is key. The cost of maintaining and repairing Prusa surpasses that of Bambu. While the quality-of-life features are good for people new to the hobby, they are useless for a farm that needs to meet MVP. You are right that the perception is that tech is disposable, but when you either replace the whole system or buy $50 in parts every quarter, there is no competition.
For me as a somewhat advanced home user the volume is the deal breaker on the core one. Even 250 cubed is jus limiting, and for small things I run a a1 mini in parallel. Looking forward to that H2D.
If that is the next Bambu (nothing is confirmed till it is). They hinted they were looking at the Prosumer market, not Consumer market for the next printer.And if the patents they filed in the last year or so are anything to go by, it will be something for the business user.
@@alexa5231 H2D is the next printer because it has leaked. Prosumer market is not a thing. Theres just grades for consumer from low end to high end. Whether you are making money from it does not really matter for the manufacturer and industry is entirely different beast. H2D will be a high end, larger printer with a new type of multi filament head/system. I hope it will cost under 2k, but I have not much hope for that.
I bought a ELEGOO Saturn 4 Ultra. It’s a phenomenal printer with amazing performance, but they fall short by upselling you their Chitubox software suite which is quite expensive for a slicer. With Prusa, you never get that feeling.
I think Prusa needs some kind of VVD system or a compact MMU inside a box. That way it could compete with X1C (not P1S). To compete with k2 plus and new generation of big size printer they need something like a “CORE ONE XL” (just a bigger core one with the bed from the XL and that “VVD” multimaterial system). Oh, please add a damm nozzle wiper
If you don't have time to even raise 2 support tickets on the bambu handy app, maybe its time you hire more staff to assist you. Or donate the printers to non-commercial users who could spend the time to fix them and then have a great asset for a new hobby.
It’s a business, not a charity. He isn’t obliged to give it for free when he could recover some cost from a printer form those who are willing to buy a damaged item. Plus, when you write off stuff, sometimes you have to destroy it for the tax reasons.
I have an X1C with AMS, it has around 550 print hours. It's been collecting dust for weeks because I keep getting the Tool Head has fallen off error message for no reason. In addition the AMS is no longer recognized. I got a lot of spare parts from Bambu but replacing them is a pain and most of them are not fixing my issues (got my third toolhead cover, why?). I ordered a Core One now as its fitting my needs even better (e.g. printing fully closed PLA/PETG and active temperature control) and i hope for better/more effektiv support.
Brace yourself, a thousand people are about to start replying to you saying that their Bambu works just fine and has a million hours of printing no problem.
" I ordered a Core One now as its fitting my needs even better" Wow you ordered and got a Core one BEFORE they even started shipping(jan 2025). This is $100% a real user...lmao. There are zero reviews, no active printer shipments, but somehow you have one....ok buddy. Which version of unreleased Prusa slicer are you using that has Core One profiles? Josef train your bots better, this is just embarrassing.
I bought a Bambu Labs X1E with four AMS and our machine runs almost 24/7 and has done for almost a full year. It’s had no problems and just required normal maintenance. My only complaint is the poop wiper sucks and the poop chute clogs and needs poked out/ cleared daily but mechanically and reliability wise the machine is fantastic. We use it to 3D print prototypes then make negative moulds around the 3D print then remove the printed part and have casting moulds. We used to need to get precision engineers or toolmakers to do this and it cost a fortune. This £1,200 X1E and another £1,000ish on four AMS has saved my company easily a quarter of a million (>£275,000) in the last 12 months on third party costs. Incredible little machine!
The force sensors in the X1C are a user replaceable (and pretty inexpensive - $5) parts, so your paper weight could be printing in no time and (almost) no money, the heated bed is also a user serviceable part but its not cheap (around $150, but so are Prusa's heated beds). The real issue with the X1C serviceability is the motion system, there are user-serviceable parts but they are expensive and there are some parts (like the Y axis bearing for example) that are not serviceable at all. Bottom line is - the serviceability of the Prusa printers is unparalleled, but the Bambu is mostly user serviceable but there are some parts that will render you printer useless if worn out.
How fast will the market saturate though? It wouldn’t take much (relatively speaking) for a small handful of large farms to basically out price everyone else
Thanks for watching. For the record, I’m not saying the X1Cs are permanent paperweights. They’re just out of commission until I find the time to repair them. I’m perceiving it to be a difficult process given how tightly integrated these machines are, but I might be mistaken. I have reviewed the instructions on the Wiki for replacing the heated bed and it appears to be quite involved, but perhaps it’s easier than it looks. Cost wise, the replacements are very reasonable: around $120 for a full bed assembly.
Bro. You made a video bashing the serviceability of the them without even contacting their support team first? 😂. By stating that nonsense, I assume everything else you said was nonsense.
@ @ it’s all documented on the Wiki, so I know roughly what’s involved. It doesn’t look like an insignificant task which is why I haven’t gotten around to it. Contacting support would just be for a warranty claim to save the cost of the replacement parts.
I do agree with the complexity of disassembly, since I already got the hotend, extruder assembly replaced(after spending couple of hours trying to recover them). The Lidar on X1C makes for a no tune, print anything for prototype purposes(unless you edit a bunch of gcode to bypass unwanted procedures for production). It unnecessarily increases complexity(when lidar/camera error pops up from time to time), and additional time to every print. The best I know was a Lulzbot, with its direct extruder, although it is lost in eternity. I do love P1S's no wifi, no bamboo studio not even registered🤫, but prints like a tank, with just the gcode loaded onto an industrial microsd card, except for one firmware bug(resolved in a later firmware🤯), that can be easily worked around.❤👍
@@ygk3d You also likened Bambu printers to disposable tech, complete with stock footage of shredded circuit boards and allusions to the iPhone's lack of repairability while nuzzling up on Prusa's jock. Then you go after Bambu's "shoddy support" at 10:47, but you said yourself you haven't contacted them.
And if/when Prusa goes out of business, I challenge you to find a complete third party toolhead. Or their PCBs. Go ahead, go find them now even.
Rethink this video. Consider pulling and fixing it.
I won't see anything you ever produce ever again, since I'll be blocking this channel from my recommendations next time I get the chance...
(And I own a P1S, an X1C, and an XL).
Oh, I see - You'd throw out a P1S if you run into the slightest hiccup. Got it.
Dude, you have some brown on your nose. Did Bambu decline to send you review units or something?
@ you’ve misinterpreted. I love Bambu printers. They’re my daily drivers. Perhaps some of my statements were misinterpreted. I wasn’t implying Bambu’s customer service is shoddy, just that Prusa’s is not. And the bit about most tech products being disposable was a general statement of the industry. I’m pretty certain I’ll have sold off all of my current generation printers 5 years from now. They won’t immediately end up as e-waste but eventually the tech will be so dated that nobody will want them. I tried to be pretty even in my assessment here, saying both positive and negative about both brands. If you don’t like my content, that’s your loss.
Now that Bambu’s cloud-based long game is out in the open, Prusa is looking good again. It’s worth paying more to not deal with a company trying to control what you do with your own machine.
Lol this community like apple lol there not changing
Looking for thid comment
Sure. keep repeating misinformation. Won't make prusa's deals any better nor cheaper.
Simply put, with this new Bamboo move, I will never, ever buy Bamboo.
@@bmobert For the record - it sure doesn't look good, but they haven't released anything yet. Personally, I am withholding final judgement until I see the real-world impacts.
I love that one of their "backhanded" comments of not needing to connect to the internet has probably just become the biggest selling point over bambu.
@@jeroexx haha true!
@@ygk3d i stay with Bambulab
neither does bambu... people keep repeating misinformation. you _DO NOT HAVE TO CONNECT BAMBU PRINTERS TO THE INTERNET_ , neither lan mode, nor SD card access stops working. why are you people lying?
@@Xadarakowhy are you simping for Bambu?
@@Xadarakoyou do if want to take advantage of all the printers capabilities. Which is the whole point, I don’t want to buy something that has features that will be locked unless I connect to the companies servers and receive permission to do so. Stop simpin and wake up
I really want to see your answer now that Bambu is closing their garden with stupid decisions.
I know mine. The P1S is going bye bye.
I stay with Bambulab, here already has been hacking, they stole the security keys. So i want better protection. And subsciption will never happen.
@@NMHC1978 this might not age well
@@krunkey neither will all the doomsaying of you people.
@@Goobicon4507 Well good for you. But don't expect anyone else to follow. go ahead and throw away a perfectly fine working machine, which won't stop working because of kneejerk reactions. if you people would all inform yourselves instead of jumping on bandwagons, we'd actually get somewhere. but fine. be that way. bye!
One thing that gets missed from the conversation also imo is that Prusa is about the only company that’s not based in china, that’s a way bigger deal than people give credit.
Is it? At the end of the day, is the average consumer finding a product that is technically better in almost every way, then scrapping it for something from europe because they hate china. How is DJI doing so well then?
@@morbus5726 Because there is very little competition. You're missing how big DJI is - they have enough resources to build things at huge loss just to test the market, something no one else can do, and getting profitable in drone market is a feat on its own. As a proof, ask people around you (provided you don't live in drone racers neighbourhood) if the know any other company even remotely connected to drones. Most common answer you will hear is Red Bull...
So why does that matter? Heck, in fact BECAUSE it’s made in the US, it’s not as cheap as it could be if it had access to cheaper labour.
@@morbus5726 DJI ist also a chinese company. Didn't you know that? DJI is located in Shenzhen just like Bamu Lab.
Good point. Fits with the longevity focus :)
With Bamboo starting to require cloud authorizations they're getting really close to requiring a subscription to use their printers.
no they are not. but whatever, keep gaslighting yourself ;)
@@Xadarako give it a few months
@@Xadarako Geez. Where have you been. Have you not ever seen this pattern in a company before? No, they wont do it *this soon*, but would be a PR death knell. But they are setting it up TO do that in the future if they decide they need to increase revenue for stockholders.
Its the precedent that it sets that's important. The precedent that has been followed by many companies before this.
@@lyianx Shhh that's bambu trying to damage control...
@@Xadarako Gaslighting? Like changing the the Terms of service in silence? And then tell everyone it's all false accusation?
I think you overestimate the market share that Prusa has. According to Prusa, they have never had more than 10% market share. Creality was the company that lost the most market share to Bambu Lab.
Prusa is moving towards industry because things like good support or certifications are more important there than in the consumer market. As a company that manufactures in Europe, Prusa can't compete on price unless they fire people and move production to China. So they don't have much of a choice.
I think people sometimes miss one important fact about Prusa Research. The company does not really have any venture capital behind it. If nothing changed 85% of the company is still owned by Průša brothers. It is family business and it is not as profit driven as companies backed by capital investors demanding growth and profit almost at all cost.
Dont forget that Prusa i3 is really part of RepRap project and full name is Prusa Mendel i3 with whole design released under GPL license. The "Original Prusa i3" was called original because there where more clones of it then Prusa Research ever built. 😁
It's also run like a family... Not as professional, small vision, and not as forward thinking as worldwide professional brands like Bambu
@@Keveira So you are saying that company that established desktop 3D printers as what they are today and could not be matched in reliability and print quality for given price for 5+ years lacks vision.
Did I understand you wrong or something?
@@Keveira That makes zero sense, professionalism does not depend on the familial status of the founders. "Vision" and "forward-thinking" are just meaningless buzzwords as they are making 3d printers and will continue to release more 3d printers that will incrementally improve on the performance of the previous models.
Nope. According to market date Prusa still had 39% in 2022/2023 and Bambu had 30% along side with Ultimaker. You might not forget that prusa does also sell industrial machines. The consumer market is not really a good way to go for a company because, people don´t want to spend a lot of money, they are far too often picky, you have consumer protection in many countries. In the B2B Area a comany can make much more money.
With Bambu labs new update it’s a lot easier to choose prusa I was gonna go bambu.
@@SigM1811 for sure. Bambu did Prusa a big favor with that announcement.
yep, I just cancelled my X1C order scheduled for mid-Feb and will be ordering a Core One now
$400 more is a small price to pay to not have a Chinese device connected to your wifi.
💯
Someone who has a 1s and a carbon, the price is only a $100 difference if u base it on regular price of the Bambu carbon instead of the sale price. For someone who always thought perusal was too expensive, they are looking more n more attractive considering I’ve already spent just as much… n especially now that Bambu is taking some mis-steps
As someone not in the US and without the trappings of muh patriotism, you people make me laugh.
There is more to this story. This is a fight between "corporate greed of walled in gardens" and "freedom to own modify and repair". To me its not about the money, (although I do realize it is for almost all consumers) but about the culture of 3d printing and innovation. We have seen what happens when we allow companies to take away right for repair or modify and in the end it ends up costing everything and you own nothing. I own my Prusas outright and its almost impossible for someone to position themself between me and my printers (unless you are in my kitchen) and as an extension I feel own a bit of Prusa brand as well. This is to contrast the feeling of some other companies where you feel exactly the opposite where you do buy the product but all the updates, software or consumables are proprietary and mandatory (think some drone or phone manufacturers).
This is why I want to defend Prusa as a brand, you might label it silly, fair enough, but it comes from a deeper set of beliefs of how we need to behave as consumers, and vote with out wallets.
bambo provides a rooted firmware, you have total control and can install your own firmware
You are absolutely free to do so, but the Bambu Lab enterprise (two companies in China plus Maker World run by a third company in Singapore) was created for business success. The CEO recently said that a million printers were shipped. Something is working...
@@michaels3003 You're missing the point or I don't really get your position.
I recently got a Bambu Labs P1S. Really nice printer, really good experience.
But what michaels said worries me. What happens if bambu decides that i need to pay a subscription for the apps/online features? A fee for cloud print jobs?
I needed to bind my printer to an account for all of the online features. I could still use the SD-Card, but that company has the primary purpose of profit
If they decide to switch to subscriptions, I need to pay or inconvenience myself to use a piece of kit that i purchased and i want to own fully.
"corporate greed of walled gardens" - there's nothing inherent to walled gardens that makes them just vacuum up more money than other business models. Otherwise it would be a whole lot more common. Especially since the point of for-profit businesses is, well...
If you aren't into the walled garden model, cool, don't invest in any of them. But lets cut down on the nonsense hyperbole. It's so tiring while undermining anything reasonable you have to say.
I hate it when I go to print something with my Bambu Printers and the CEO air drops into my living room between me and my printers. I'm totaling getting a Prusa now.
One of the biggest advantages of Prusa is that it is based in Europe, where I also live. This means that their products comply with European regulations, which improves customer security and makes warranty services and returns smoother. Additionally, money stays within Europe, which is important for supporting the local economy. Prusa's factory also provides jobs in the region, contributing to job creation within Europe.
Prusa’s device support is also exceptional. For example, my old MK3S printer, which I've been using for several years, still receives updates. This long-term support is a big advantage compared to many other brands. Prusa’s open-source mentality is also a key factor in my decision to buy their products: it gives users the freedom to modify and share their devices, which appeals to those who value openness and community support.
Any company from China that wants to sell it's products in the EU, has to comply with the same regulations that Prusa does. As for money staying in Europe, I agree, if we got pretty much the same tech for roughly the same money, I'd choose an EU manufacturer over a Chinese one every time.
That's copium. China's workforce is as skilled and plentiful as in the EU, whether we're talking about factory workers or engineers (and especially engineers). All you're paying for on a Made in the EU product is taxes and the 6 months of paid leave and the "free" healthcare every European loves to rave about. That's literally it
Did you know many of the parts Prusa uses (like stepper motors, guide rods bearings etc) are from china?
europen money stays in europe either way because people don't pay with european moneys in China
The comments on this video definitely took a 180 as of recent for sure
This video aged poorly
@grocerylist Has it? (Sorry, looking into buying my first printer, want to be sure I'm not missing anything)
@spets234 bamboo is starting to lock down its printers with new firmware
@@spets234 Bambu just nuked themselves by blocking non-proprietary software. I was about to buy four of their printers, and now I'm looking at all the options again. Ugh.
@@TheObscuran i thought they stepped back from that
@@averagefan8199 They came out and said that the update won't prevent prints, but their update says it will prevent prints. So what do we believe? What they're saying or what they're doing?
Prusa is reliable, made in EU/US, mostly open with a open firmware, nobody is using you data for research, and you can trust the team for support and help. That's why you are paying a "premium".
"Paying a premium" would be 15%. At double the price, it's calling their customers idiots.
"Reliable" - "you can trust the team for support and help"
Hopefully you dont end up having the experience I did when I bought a MK4 at launch and they sent me a total lemon. Full of extruder and heatbed issues and couldnt print a thing. Support dragged me through the ringer for my full warranty period even admitting on record the machine was a lemon but that they wouldnt replace it because, ahem, "its better for *us* to just send you a part than a whole machine." Again, they admitted *on record* that the machine was a lemon but instead of replacing it they just ran out my whole warranty period looking for the one part to replace. I even said I would pay for shipping and send back my busted one, but nope.
Now I'm out of warranty buying parts out of pocket just trying to get it to even work. I will never make the mistake of buying Prusa again. On a side note, they do collect data like everyone else under the the whole, "help us improve?" guise. It's up to them to decide how your data "helps them improve" so... I guess pick the answer you want to believe?
@@Giskard_Reventlov you can't decide by yourself the right price by pulling a random number from your ass ser 🤣
@@Giskard_Reventlov Start a 3d print manufacturer in EU or USA and let me know instead of pulling random number. Just send a step file to an american manufacturer for 5k pieces VS china and let me know if the difference is 15% lol
@@Giskard_Reventlov 15% more is not a premium. Companies can pay double or triple for a machine if it's reliable and easy to fix even if it doesn't have the cool features.
If the Bambu's are paperweights, you can send them to me. I'll pay shipping and handling. I'd hate for them to take up space in your print farm.
same
I second this
This guy states that the Prusas just needed a little maintenance to get them going, but the Bambi’s are paperweight because he doesn’t want to do the maintenance..
@@avatarpthe says it’s not worth doing the maintenance…watch carefully
@@arbjful only its total nonsense. Literally everything on a bambu is easy and pretty fast to replace or fix.
but everything changed when the fire nation attacked
I hate downtime. Prusa gives me the confidence that I will always get my printers up up and running if they ever go down. I also know I can always get ahold of Prusa support.
The problem is for a given comparable prusa machine you can buy 2 Bambu machines so the confidence (not based in evidence as multiple print farms have shown the Bambus to be just as if not more reliable) dies with the fact you can just have more.
The concept of a disposable printer just does not work for me. None of my Prusa printers have become paper weights.
@@narlyb1500 The problem is that it's a myth that it's disposable vs non disposable.
Ignore that guy, hes a certified bambu shill that has zero experience with prusa. Bambu's are referred to as "easy bake vorons" for the very reason that they are considered throwaways when broken.
I actually think this confidence is rather mispaced. There's any number of manufacturers of clone/replacement parts for Bambu given just how popular those machines have become, and if Bambu stops offering genuine well priced replacement parts, there's guaranteed to be more. And on the other hand Prusa sells relatively fewer printers and has also steered hard towards proprietary parts and abandoned open-source hardware - the MK4 and Core One are no longer open source.
Between the two Prusa would still be my choice because less locked down, but honestly i would choose neither.
Your MK3's may be old, and slower, but they are reliable, still working, still getting updates, and have confidence you can buy parts for it for a very long time.
They sat gathering dust for a long time but recently I had a project that could make use of them and they have been slowly but surely cranking out parts.
@@ygk3d Its amazing the comments that you get regarding the Bambu and Prusa printers. One was designed to be fast & inexpensive as its primary, and the other was designed to be sustainable and repairable first. They both serve a purpose, and they are both good printers. I own both too (well, not the CoreOne yet). People just have to be honest what they are getting in the short and long term.
What about making them 3.5?
@@ygk3d only gathering dust because you didn't hit the print button on them? even if their slower they still work... this sounds more like poor planing than anything.
I don't know ever since we got our bambu labs I only used our prusa printers once. The immense speed difference and reliable print quality is miles different.
We might upgrade our mk3s to the m4 kit which will likely make the machine use able again but the ability to print a quality part for a client 2 to 3x faster is insane value as a company as well as KNOWING it will print 100% or atleast 95% success
Now that Bambu is going down the black hole, I am seriously looking at Prusa
Same here, I was going to buy a bambu next month. Now I'm almost definitely going prusa
what did they do?
I've been out of the loop
@@21area21 They are removing support for third-party devices. No more panda screens :(
@chandlerdance Thanks for the info.
I looked into it a bit and I find this odd.
When I saw the CEO like a year ago, he seemed really likable and virtuous. I'm surprised they would be doing something outright malicious.
From what I read, Bambu still gave ways for 3rd party apps to access the printers. A way that requires proper authentication and takes away vulnerabilities.
Since they are totally cloudy printing based, people, specially the Prusa community and others of such persuasion, are distrusting of network equipment. So, I think it would greatly erode trust if Bambu let a massive vulnerability get exploited.
It seems like a really good idea to get ahead of the curve rather than get their reputation severely damaged. Especially if 3rd party devices and apps can still work.
Idk, I might be very wrong, but I think this might genuinely be in the best interest of Bambu, the community, and the printer owners.
Bambu now locking down the firmware preventing third party apps from working. Will never support a company that changed to removes features after they sold you it.
SUPPORT. I've had a few tuning issues with my Prusa XL & Mk3.9 lately. Instead of doing a whole bunch of head scratching I tried their support. They got back to me within an hour and provided clear and thorough support asking for pics and video of the issues I was facing. Really makes me happy that I stuck with the brand.
or you could get a printer that works out of the box without wasting time on support?
@@sowa705or check their beautiful wiki
Prusa versus Bambu is a religious war. Bambu supplanted Prusa less in technology than they did in conversion of religious fanatics. I don't own either, but I'd never buy any Bambu product because I disagree with their disregard for my privacy and security, as well as their overall disdain for intellectual property. I also don't like how they built their proprietary closed garden atop a mountain of open source development.
Communist country will never change! I totally agree with your point! I'll also buy any communist China products.
Aged like fine wine
@@CielMC - Yeah. Sigh. The only thing that surprised me about this week's big Bambu blowup was that so many Bambu printer users were surprised. It's worth noting that they aren't Bambu printer owners, because Bambu Lab obviously owns the printers and they're only letting those people use them in exchange for sharing their designs with Bambu Lab.
interesting, how old are the X1C's? I'm curious if there's a change in quality or just flukes, my two have 2,700+ and 1,900+ hours each and I've only had to replace Bowden tubes, cutters, unjam an extruder because I used old brittle filament in it, and clean the lidar camera a bunch of times (in addition to regular leadscrew lubing and maintenance) I guess I'm lucky, but I know people who have entire X1C farms with similar luck
They're maybe a year and a half old. I have others that are still running strong. It's possible that these units were just lemons, because, like you say, many people have far exceeded 1,000 hours of printing with minimal issues.
My X1C is on about 2500 and still working like charm. A1 about 1500 and still no problem, A1 mini about 600+ and no problem. And all parts are on bambu store.
My Bambu has been printing no stop for 46 years now, and it still goes great, no problems no maintainance... This is an absolutely organic comment, and it's perfectly natural that every friggin time anyone mentions a problem with a Bambu printer 90% of the comments are "My Bambu was used to build the piramid of Giza and still works no problem."
@@ygk3d Honestly, i'd put a little effort into fixing them as: 1) they are costing you money just sitting there 2) Bambu parts are relatively cheap.
I have 1000 hours and no problems
1:50 Given the recent announcement from Bambu, this question has been answered imo.
Has anyone mentioned the fact that the Prusa Core One is much more compact than most (all?) other printers that offer roughly the same build volume? That makes it very attractive to me as a complement to my current Prusa MK4 and Voron V0.
Is it though? Being able to fit a whole spools speaks to how much space in the sides there is. It doesn't seem notably more compact than anything else and they again go with the weird non uniform xy
@@BeefIngot The space on the sides comes from the Stepper motors which makes printers much bigger than the print bed. They optimize space using which makes the total footprint, including the spool smaller and helps with heating. So, quite a good solution.
@bern71 That doesn't check out given many printers use a wrap around design for the motors.
I feel like people bend over to find everything Prusa to be somehow genius
It looks so cheap though, stamp steel sheet and thin clear plastics. Have you forgot how their multi color solution looks? Its all over the place.
It is not the steppers, is the kinematic that lays on top of the filament rolls. It hast to be bigger than the print bed. Also part of the print head exceeds the sides of the print bed. Prusa basically saw there was space inside the chamber not being used and put it outside keeping the envelope
Last ditch effort? Prusa is growing. If you care about the people that make the products you use, you buy from Prusa. They take care of their people including retirement and Healthcare and all of their hardware and software is open source. Their products are made in the Czech Republic by Prusa, not farmed out to the lowest bidder in China.
For me, prusa takes it for a few specific reasons, if prusa stops existing, much of their machines can be replaced with off the shelf parts, bambu on the other hand is majority proprietary. prusa is made in europe with better working regulations and wages. prusa has great customer care and their up gradability is unbeaten in the market.
As well as all that, prusa came from the open-source and built on it. bambu took from the open sauce, made it proprietary, using it to profit for themselves wile giving nothing back. i know my prusa is gonna work and keep printing at a good solid speed reliably, their not the fastest but with relatively little modding they can hold their own. If I need something done quick, i look to my voron .2 that can accelerate at twice the speed of a bambu and is half the price, as well as being completely open source and easily replaceable.
I'm totally with you on the issue, but I think that even European Companies HAVE to be competitive. Their whole market strategy can't be based all on petiness from customers. The same with electric cars unfortunatelly, Volkswagen (Vehicles of the people, literally) is selling EVs for 40k knowing they'll be the only one allowed in 6 years. Why shouldn't I buy a chines SUV EV that cost half the price and is genuinly better? Same with bambu, remember their response didn't come yet to the Prusa Core One. Their printers were released 2 years ago. I honestly think prusia underdelivered here. This printer with no easy multi color printing and somewhat a weirderd build volume already is not up to standard for today. I think the competition is once aganin gonna be blown away. Remember those guys come from DJI. DJI has virtually no competition, they even took on the GoPro market because the Westeners were so fucking incompetent. So too little too late from prusa.
@@lorenzolupica8833 European firms can never compete over the price tag alone, because if you care for your workers and your environment its more expensive then if you do not. Top that with "optimizing the conditions" in a country and you stand no chance.
I think Prusa sits in a niche where they cater the needs of tinkerers and the niche is so big, that they can't manufacture enough goods (some Prusament is always sold out).
And the tinkerer in me really likes the core one - while it may not be the right thing in a professionell environment, if you have upgraded your MK3 to MK4 and MK4s, you now can go the next step all while owning exactly one printer.
So Prusa is not for one to start 3d printing as cheap as possible, but for people who care a bit more about non-shady practices and are up to pay premium for that on their hobby.
Totally agree, just want to add that Prusa was there for 3D printing development pretty much from the start, and if Bambu, Creality, and other even exists is because Prusa did most of the R&D in the first place and everything they've done was Open Source, they allowed the "cheap" 3D printing to be a thing, without them we coul still be stuck in the old rep/rap era where everything about 3D printing was DYI.
Yes they are not ahead like they used to be, but products and longevity is good, and until now they never let customer down, with upgrade path after every big design update so you're never completely outdated. Not sure your Bambu X1 can become an X1+ / X2 whenever this thing comes out...
That may have been true at some point, but the "off the shelf components" business ain't true anymore. They aren't open source anymore. If Prusa goes under, unless they release their source, there's no replacing their electronics.
@taylorlandry641 those components are just as good, look at vorons, they are entirely off shelf parts that can beat their proprietary machines. As far as I can see thd only reason they do it is ease of manufacturing and to control the fixability of their products forcing you to buy replacements from them
People portray bambu lab as the ultimate innovator, they just looked at the voron project, and made an extra propietary version of the trident.
The absolute biggest win for Prusa printers right now is the noise. A lot of us aren't running farms in separate rooms. Or maybe are even forced to have the 3D printer in their office.
Then Prusa suddenly becomes your only out of the box FDM printer. I really hope more manufactures will take those things into consideration as well.
Here's my take on my recent dive into the world of 3D printing:
Just a few months ago, I decided to finally pull the trigger on buying a 3D printer. It was an exciting time with the Prusa MK4S and Bambu models dominating the market. After doing my research, I found that both printers deliver similar output and quality, though Bambu usually comes at a lower price point.
For me, the decision wasn't just about the printer itself. I've always valued open-source principles and the ability to tinker, upgrade, and customize. That's why I went with Prusa. It's a perfect match for someone like me who loves getting hands-on with technology.
However, if I were running a business, the equation would change dramatically. Cost versus performance would be the deciding factor, and Bambu would likely be my choice for its economic advantages.
Now, here's where my concerns lie with Bambu. They're often compared to Apple in the 3D printing world, aiming to dominate through what could be seen as under-pricing. My worry is what happens once they secure a significant market share. Could they start introducing restrictions? Like, maybe they'll limit printer usage time or charge for each print job? What about making the printer essentially a rental unit - sell it cheaper upfront but then you're paying as you go?
And with the NFC technology on their filaments, there's a risk they might restrict you to only using Bambu-branded materials. Given that Bambu isn't just a startup but backed by heavy hitters in Chinese conglomerates with deep pockets, these scenarios don't seem far-fetched.
This isn't just about price or technology; it's about control over what we own and how we use it. That's why I appreciate Prusa's commitment to open-source, which not only aligns with my values but also protects against some of these potential future restrictions. It's a lot to think about, but it's clear to me why I made the choice I did.
How is prusa perfect for someone who likes to get hands on? The hardware is closed source. An open source printer like maybe something like sovol would be far more geared towards that.
Prusa _used_ to be for open source folks, but havent been for years.
This sounds like it was written using AI from someone at the Prussia marketing office.
@@BeefIngot Most Prusa printers come as kits that you assemble yourself - it doesn't get much more hands on unless you design your own printer. There are only a few hardware parts that are specific to the printer. Most parts are standard (motors, gears, rods, screws, etc.) or easily printed (all plastic parts). You can get the print files (and at least partial design sources, like SCAD or STEP files) online. You can buy ALL replacement parts for fair prices on their web shop - you could assemble a full functioning printer from their spare parts store. If you feel like it you can even get the designs for their electronics and the sources for their firmware.
If I wanted to build another copy of my Prusa MK4 without buying a single part from Prusa: I would have to reverse engineer only 3 hardware parts - main frame, print bed and the aluminium frame of the hot end. None of those would be a real hurdle, but they'd be expensive to make as a one-off. The electronics I could just order from a PCB manufacturer using Prusa's original design files - again the one-off cost would be higher than buying the part from Prusa. Anything else would be cheap standard parts or printed PETG parts with designs downloaded from Prusa.
This is the MOST Open Source that I have seen in any complex hardware. What else would you want?
@KonradTheWizzard Assembling the printers is a gimmick that doesn't actually teach you anything of worth to justify the time spent. The savings also don't even bring them in line with the competition.
There are many more parts than you've stated that are closed and I would bet that vs Bambulab Prusa is at maybe 40% proprietary vs Bambulabs 60%.
Further, consider that the Core one in particular only really has the 2 gimmicky side panels availible open source. Everything else is closed, and anything that 8snt just so happens to be a standardized part such as a bearing or motor.
Sovol has truly open source printers where you even get pcb schematics (quite important and something Prusa obfuscate and does not provide).
In essence there is a whole lot more open source wise you could want out of a printer.
@@BeefIngot I assembled my own MK4 a few months ago. For me it taught me how it is put together, where to find potential problems and most importantly to not be afraid of taking it apart. For me that is VERY important.
As a hobbyist of close to 10 years now I was fairly excited when I first heard about Bambu's printers and how easy they would be to use. But due to Bambu Lab's behavior since launching, I will not touch one of their machines. Most of those reasons have been mentioned in this video so no need to restate them here. Instead I will choose to pay a little more and support a company that gives back to the maker community instead of stealing from creators for their own benefit. Not to mention the top notch reliability of a Prusa and the fact I can make any and all repairs myself. Despite my feelings toward Bambu, I am glad they are pushing the market and I would actually recommend one of their lower end models to someone who is simply clueless about 3D printing and just wants to print some fun little toys. Anyone who is more serious about 3D printing as a hobby I would recommend a Prusa. Sort of like the difference of a tabletop player buying figures pre-painted and those who paint miniatures as the hobby itself. I am not a business user so I have no opinions in that regard.
This is silly. Can you clarify what behaviour it is you don't like?
@@Keveira Well, several are mentioned as I said in the video, but here ya go. Firstly they launched with users being forced to send prints through the Internet to their servers in China. Then they had a debacle where many of the printers started printing on their own because of the afore mentioned prints going through their servers. They also incorporate a lot of open hardware design but do not give back to the open hardware community. Then they started a print model web site which was obviously the stolen code base of another popular print model site and in order to populate it they web scraped data and files from other web sites without the permission of the model designers or the sites they scraped from. I don't have to have 3D printers to survive so I choose to have standards for the companies I will buy from. Personally I don't think having those ethics standards is silly.
@@ObitusJoeUnfortunately most people don't see things the way you do. Most people care about price and nothing more. Since China doesn't believe in property rights they can save a lot of development costs and offer things for cheap.
I have to be that guy. Your info is wrong. Whether it be through ignorance or malice I will correct you.
1. You could *ALWAYS* print offline(sd card). I am an original kickstarter backer (2022) so that misinfo about needing the cloud to print has NEVER been a requirement. It as only gotten better with LAN only mode(over wifi) and little known FTP.
2. Making a website that houses models isn't a novel idea. Thangs, printables, yeggi, Thingiverse. Will you accuse (Prusa)Printables of copying (Ultimaker)Thingiverse, which came out first? 🤔
3. Printing without a slicer(from a cell phone) came with Ankermake first but was quickly implemented and supported better with Bambu. That has been COPIED by Prusa. Where is your outrage for Anker against Prusa for copying? 😒
4. The advancements in Opensource in Bambu studio has been implemented in Orca and Prusa slicer Step file implementation, multiplates, svg all bambu first.
4a.They also licensed their nozzle tech to E3d and half of the license fee goes to Sanjay Mortimer Foundation.
So they are giving back to the community.
5. Makerworld files are USER uploaded. Point to a maker who states their files were taken by bambu directly. Any files that are user uploaded fraudulently can be taken down easily with a copyright claim. You are probably the type who think looking at the inspect element of a website is haxxing...🤣
They even allow X1C users to roll back to earlier firmware to use Open source custom firmware. This can allow addon boards that include usb and ethernet. They are not heavy handed with mods like the hydra ams mod, light bars, fans, bento boxes and even recommended mods for the p1p before it was overshadowed by the p1s.
Open source hardware is OPEN TO ALL. private users, education, companies. All licenses are followed and adhered. Anything created inhouse does not need to be shared. Even Prusa is closing some hardware designs as is their right.
For the love that is holy do some basic research. If you like a company for any reason that is your decision but no need to spread refutable junk to justify it.
1. I know you could always print through SD card. I was referencing network connectivity. And I also know they have made it an option to not use their service while using network connectivity. But when it launched you had to send prints over the Internet to China if you wanted to use NETWORK connectivity. And a result of this was a bunch owners discovering their printers connected to said service printed by themselves due to a cloud service restart. That's a big red flag for me. Sorry, I was not more clear.
2. I was not accusing them of stealing because they implemented the same concept for a web site as someone else. Their site was a clear and direct recolor of another. You can debate whether using the near exact design and a lot of code base is stealing but in my book it is very bad form and another red flag. If you don't have the talent to write your own code or create your own design hire better talent. When a company shows me they take a lot of shortcuts it is a sign I probably don't want their product.
3. Not sure of the point here. I never mentioned anything about printing without a slicer or Bambu stealing features. I have no issues with any functionality of Bambu printers.
4. Maybe you skipped my original post. It really seems like you did. From my original post: "Despite my feelings toward Bambu, I am glad they are pushing the market and I would actually recommend one". My criticism for lack of contribution is purely on the open hardware side and is my personal preference for a 3D printer manufacturer.
4a. Ok. Charity is great. I am specifically talking about open hardware and in particular in regards to the 3D printing community. But again, great.
5. I will concede this point 100%. It seems it was a user that was performing the mass uploads of other people's models to Makerworld which is what I was referencing. And for the record I write HTML/XML/Javascript/PHP for a living so big swing and a miss there.
And a point I did not mention was Bambu Labs admitted malicious behavior on a competitors site:
"These testers did upload a handful of models to Printables, including a sparse few problematic ones, and even reported some of them to check the moderation procedures so we can calculate how many head count should we reserve for moderators. All these models were subsequently removed by our testers if not previously moderated by Printables. There was no malintent in this activity, and no harm was inflicted upon anyone, other than the very minor added workload of moderation for the moderator."
That was not only breaking TOU but is very bad form and shady behavior. They only mentioned it on their site because they were caught. You run your tests on your own site with your own employees/resources. Not sure what you do for a living but I am sure you would not want a competitor abusing your resources for their gain.
It really does seem like you did not read my original post but I hope this clarifies my opinions.
3:05 you have a feeling that it's not worth it to try? Why didn't you try and actually come back to us with something more empirical than a feeling
Ya, clicked off at that point. Rest of the video is pointless.
Exactly my thoughts. I know a friend with 4 printers and all that was needed was just a support ticket and the machine logs and they sent them the exact replacement part he needed.
I'm still on the Prusa side of thins. I really don't like the security / privacy concerns with the Bambu, and I already hate how much filament I waste doing multi-color with MMU3. The Bambu wastes a ton more.
I'm eyeing an XL5T, but also hoping it gets an update soon.
For me multi head is the only way I’m comfortable doing multi material. I don’t know how people stomach wasting half their filament just for some colors on a sculpture that, let’s be real here, would look MUCH better off a resin printer. Unless you need a design for engineering work I’d say a single filament is probably your best option.
What kind of update are you looking for? It's pretty solid now.
@ i was thinking the 4S updates, mainly part cooling.
It's crazy that an industry this huge didn't have any companies truly innovating and a brand new company was able to come in and immediately become the new standard of which even the established companies are now chasing.
Because market was not big enough.
Yep. Fear that shows that Open Source does not automatically mean that innovation really fosters.
Did they innovate? I see nothing in Bambu that wasn't already created in open-source projects. They took all of that, and contributed nothing back.
The innovation happened in the Voron project years before Bambu came about.
Unreal take to say they didn’t innovate. They were the first to do force bed probing, lidar, and ams. Not to mention the welded chassis and rfid tags. And before you find some obscure example of someone who did these things first, they clearly integrated it better and refined it since there the first widespread use of any of these. It is the first and borderline still only printer in the world that simply works, and that is what the mass market desired. It went from a toy hobbies used to make little gizmos to a true engineering tool (and also print a hell of a lot more gizmos lol)
Prusa needs a 350x350x350 color combo killer and the Core One isn’t it. It’s just a stop gap to a longer term problem. Nobody cares about a nice nook for their filament or a built in tool cabinet. Convenient, but the market doesn’t want gimmicks. They want a bigger build plate and color.
What the community really want is fast and large idex printers. Maybe nobody is saying but till one appear with a volume of +300mm +800mm speed but also doest need any work from the user to align anything and offset is always perfect for both nozzles then everyone will leave these ams systems
@@tired5925ratrig incoming. It's DIY total kit though.
A lot of people want colour without the waste of Bambu or the cost of the Prusa XL. Whoever solves this will be a key player moving forward
@@tagg8233 I fully agree with this comment!
I'm hoping they will scale up the Core One to a larger bed size at some point. But it's pretty sweet that they offer an upgrade from Mk4s to Core One, which explains the print volume. And it's nice that they managed to squeeze out a little extra volume on the same plates.
As for color, the MMU3 has been performing pretty well for me. They need to improve the usability of that thing; compared to the AMS it is a real pain to load filament into that thing. There's a few aftermarket options to do away with the buffer, which makes for easier loading and a smaller footprint.
Wait so rather than simply replace a part and get a Bambu printer working again you'll just toss it? That seems insane! I have 3 X1C's each with over 1000 hours and no major issues at all. So far I have been able to fix and repair anything needed. Bambu has a great detailed Wiki on how to fix anything on the machine. I started with Prusa and loved them but they are just too $$ for what you get and I just want results and Bambu is doing that at the moment. I am still confused why you can't fix those 2 printers though!
This dude is ridiculous. A force bed sensor is $5. He will sideline a $700 or$1200 printer than spend $5 and follow the wiki or $120 for a new heat bed? but he had no issues dropping 4-5k on an XL and build it ?
Me thinks his reasoning is beyond suspect and borders on ridiculous.
a single heatbed tile for the XL is $23 x16= $368
@@damiengvideos4337 definitely not tossing them in the bin. Just saying they are unusable until I find time to repair them and I’m a bit intimidated by the process. I’m probably overthinking it. It might not be as bad as I’m anticipating.
@@No0o0o0o0o0 it’s not an issue of cost. It’s an issue of time. I’m perceiving it to be a difficult process given how tightly integrated the printer is. But I could be mistaken. I’ll tackle it at some point and find out.
Sounds like KTM ;)
@@ygk3dI feel like criticizing Bambu's repairability without having actually experienced it is a bad move for credibility.
Prusa core one is perfectly fine. Ppl would be moaning no matter what.
Lol. Prusa was like the what 3d printers aspired to be in the early days. A well established 3d printer brand, that could charge that much back then. They fell off big time because they didn't do anything for years. They let all of the Chinese brands surpass them in every way. It doesn't make sense anymore to try to sell expensive 3d printers to the consumer market. Many early brands also bit the dust. At the end of the day, its abou5 marketshare, cause everyone is racing to the bottom. Prusa gonna bite to dust too, if they arent gaining marketshare.
@oneanother1 so buy Chinese if you do not like prusa. You either do not like product or you do. Decision is all yours. If I would be taking to account all those arbitrary "problems" you mentioned I would have a hard time to buy even toilet paper
@@nex7053 well, that is why people are moaning, especially prusa fanboys. If they didn't care, then no moaning. The core one is fine, except the price isn't.
@@oneanother1 well they are not chinese sweatshop employing kids for bowl of rice and building safety nets to prevent suicides. And price is not that bad 30k in CZK is completely ok for locally produced product - it is one third up since when I was buying mk3s but I get full enclosure. Prusa fans are not ones moaning. Those who are moaning would like to have custom made printer to satisfy all their quirks. Prusa fan will understand that prusa is developing open ecosystem of enduser printer with upgradability and interchangeable parts in mind. You maybe can get cheaper bamboo, but when next iteration of printers will be available or new technology you will have to buy new one, but with prusa, you will always have way to do cheap upgrade.
Yes looks perfect
It's not about being first to market, but doing it right.
We've seen multiple Chinese manufactured printers that are fire hazards, and their first response was to downplay the danger, and only did something after being called out on it.
Like with the A1 recall
@@krollmond7544 They react in right way. I wait for bed and get also 128€ bonus on store..
I'm still on a Tevo Tarantula... One of those chinese fire hazards... Altough, I don't remember it shipping back in 2017 with a magnetic print bed, a Hemera XS revo extruder, a Misumi linear rail for the bed or any of the other thousand little things I upgraded.
@@krollmond7544 Bambu didn't downplay the danger at all with the A1. The power coord issues were a rarity and were only recalled as a safety precaution. They probably suffered more reputation damage from an over safe A1 recall versus just downplaying the danger.
@starflexthe2nd I'm just saying they were recalled, I don't know if they downplayed it or not
How can i disable the voice translation?
The X1's just need some basic maintenance. Not sure how it could not be worth fixing
Right? I am nearing 3000 hours with my X1 and the only thing I've had to change was a hotend. All parts are listed on the website and a simple video watch shows you how to tear them down and put them back together. It's easy.
The entire heatbed is not "basic maintenance".
@@carlosjosejimenezbermudez9255 let's see what you have to replace after 3000 hours on a Prusa
@@carlosjosejimenezbermudez9255 yesp, neither is the entire XY gantry for a single bad part
it's a bet that the ad revenue from a viewbait move will exceed the cost of the disposed machine
doubt it will work out
I had a heat bed sensor problem on my P1S, contacted support and in about a week I had a new heat bed. Took less than an hour to replace and I’m 1000+ hours with it. I’ll buy your X1Cs if you’re gonna throw them out
1k hours and your allready experiencing MAJOR failures in your printer... and you consider that a win? my mk3s+ had 6k print hours when i sold it and was printing allmost like new only changed the nozzle and gave it lube/grease...
@@1bonebreaker1 I don't know why all the people fighting in the comment but I went and looked at what is the heat bed sensor and it was 5$ thing and when I looked at it at prusa website for their printers it was sold out. I'm not fanboy for either companies but I own A1 and I'm happy with it since it was affordable and plug and play I only lubed the Y axis so far since it remind me every month or so. people should stop being fan boys and just let the companies fight to produce better products. if we stick to one side and contune buying without looking logically not emotionally we only getting the short end of the stick if there no competing there is no need for companies to improve their products since they have crazy fanboys who will buy their products even if it's not the best. I would gladly trade my A1 if I was able to get better printer with same price but better features, reliability, and availability of spare parts. and not to forget the ease of use. I only care about my own self as an end user.
@@1bonebreaker1 I'm saying to not cast it aside and it's worth fixing.
@@1bonebreaker1 This is turning into Xbox vs PS again. Bro, stop being elitist.
My MK3S+ has printed well over 10,000 hours and all it has needed are hotend thermistors and a couple print fans. That is pretty crazy that a Bambu heatbed is shot after a fraction of what my Prusa has done.
I have 2K hours on my X1C, had one issue in the start got solved for free within a week. Even if they are closing the printers and require a subscription a lot of people will stay with Bambu, the others will keep the hardware and flash them with new firmware.
Prusa on the other had, sure they do have alright costumer service, I'll give them that but their printers are behind on specs and insanely expensive for what you get.
I expect another brand will take over soon, Prusa really need to step up their game if they want to keep up, even with the mishaps by bambu atm.
Having owned most printers from both Bambu and Prusa, I can confirm both are fantastic - which is best for you depends on use case. If I were to recommend a printer for a home user or even a print farm startup with a budget, I’d probably say pickup a P1S - great quality, speed and ease of use. I also like the ability to chain AMS units for 16 color prints. That being said, I have an issue that requires some of my time to fix on the X1s and P1Ss around once every 100 hours or so (and the purging with the AMS is extremely inefficient - hoping they optimize it more in firmware updates). My XLs and MK4Ss are dead reliable, rarely ever having any kind of issue at all. The experience is a little less user friendly for beginners, but getting better with each update. They are also easy to work on if I do want or need to. If you are more experienced or need as little downtime and material waste as possible, it’s Prusa for me. The upgrade path makes them cheaper in the long run as well. BTW- there is a camera option on the Core One.
These are great points and observations, especially that the plug and play of Bambu appears somewhat of a gimmick where they downstream-ed the time and efforts to keep them running on the back end no one thinks about when impulse buy vs the front end where most consumers keep their undying focus.
This is likely the only wave Bambu can keep all the features and specs affordable and competitive.
The purge in Bambu can be manually tuned with test prints as it is filament specific the the particular spools and order you print in. Options are in bs/orca
@ The flaw is in the lack of retraction and the cut point leaving so much in the heatbreak to purge - that needs a firmware fix. They did one fix recently, but it wasn’t enough.
How is your setup on the XL and what do you print?
Is it engineering, multimaterial with high accuracy..., or visual consumer stuff
I bought my mother a Bambulab A1, and while the printer prints in much higher quality than my personal MK4S, the plastic parts on it always seem to break. The purge wiper broke within a week, and the webstore also seems to always be out of stock with replacement parts. A week ago, the AMS Lite filament hub broke, and I'm scrambling to fix it before Christmas.
I love the metal parts on my Prusa MK4S. The printer feels sturdy, and I haven't had a part break since I got it as a MK4. The Core One hasn't sold me whatsoever, and I thank you for the information and non-biased opinions you have provided in this video.
there is one show stopping deal breaking make or break killer issue for me - closed sourced dependance on a Chinese web service is a hard no
all BambuLab printers support a LAN-only mode where it is not connected to anything outside of your own local network. You can still send prints over to your printer via the local network but don't have any cloud capability (the App becomes useless). You can also just use the micro SD-card.
Please explain what you're so afraid of? No conspiracy theories - just evidence-backed facts please.
just put it on a VLAN like all your other IOT devices
Just don't give it network connectivity then, and move on with your day.
@@Denis_mkay China steals IP.
The ego of Prusa's CEO has always been a major red flag for me. Also, it doesn't matter if it's made in the EU or not if the product can't compete technically. They've been using 3D PRINTED PARTS on their printers for YEARS instead of like, idk, standard molded plastic just like any other multimillion dollar company would use. That's just straight up amateurish at that point.
At my makerspace, when people ask about what kind of printer they should get, I ask them: Which do you want? A printer that you can unbox and print with, or one that teaches you about how they are built and want to learn from? If they are just looking for a set it up and work printer, I tell them to get a Bambu printer. If they want a project and want to know more, I tell them to get a Prusa kit and build it. A Prusa Mk3s was donated to our space and in the month that we've had it, it's been used more and failed less than the Ender 5 and Anycubic machines we have on the bench.
And all of this depends on your use case. I do casual 3D printing, with functional parts and some cosplay props. I don't sell my things, so having a quick printer isn't my focus, but it may be for others. I look for accuracy and the ability to print tougher materials, and have been rocking a single toolhead XL since I received my pre-order machine.
I do see the mindset of saying that Prusa is meeting Bambu at their level, but even the MK4 seemed more of a "We did the research on making this awesome Nextruder, can we put it on a MK3s and make a faster bed slinger?", while the Core One seems less like "How do we compete with Bambu" and more of a "How do we make a smaller version of the XL out of a MK4?"
So you ask them, do you want a product that works or do you want to stay poor? Seems like the only correct answer is Bambu. Why would you buy something to do a task that doesn’t do the task without significant time investment? I mean unless the dude is designing a better 3d printer, you don’t need to learn about it.
A 3d printer is an appliance. You wouldn’t use the same criteria for your stove or TV or lawn tractor. You just buy stuff that works. The days of people who are just inquisitive about 3d printing with plenty of time to waste to print trinkets is over. 3d printing now prints usable things. So it’s time for 3d printers to be treated like an appliance and not a hobby.
I wanted a Bamboo A1 and then they went all CCP and ruined it. The cost of a Prusa is steep so I'll sit on the sidelines and stew
This is where I've found myself. There's a reason this hobby isn't quite mainstream yet, looks like we'll have to wait another year or two.
Funny enough, I currently have an Elegoo Neptune 4 pro. Works beautifully and at $210, I would argue better value than the A1 mini. My problem with the market currently is that a few years ago, we talked about every manufacturer. Now we act like there are only 2.
Great comment. I also have a Neptune 4 Pro and it's been an excellent and very reliable printer, and a great value.
5:23 "we will never force you to connect the printer to the network" this part become so important now
Excellent video! The same thing happened in the car industry. Everything has pivoted to turn key out of the box experience. But now cars can’t be fixed or worked on at home or by local shops without going back to the manufacturer. This is a right/ability to repair issue. I’ll support that every time. These are big long term investments. Your video also did a good job of explaining that Bambu is expanding the market and maybe going down market to more mainstream people with less tinker ability. As someone who got into printing with a Prusa before bambu existed, this video was super helpful for me to catch up on what the heck is going on.
Thanks for your comment! I appreciate the feedback.
ruclips.net/video/DwhnArkZTu8/видео.html Whatever communist China make will always explode. Many people got terrible experiences and I will never buy them again. We prefer EU quality Prusa!
I am seriously considering this as my first PLA printer. One of the leading factors for me is the noise a printer makes, the mk4s is supposedly already very quiet, and Prusa customer support told me the Core One significantly more than even that. And the fact that Prusa Labs are 20min drive also helps
Team Bambu will be going Prusa soon. I just did.
As a hobbyist, and not a "prosumer with a 3D-Print Factory", I will only have a single printer at any time. I have the time to tinker on the printer itself, and my money is an investment; so repair-ability, upgrade-ability, reliability and an actual upgrade-path is more important than a slightly lower price, it working out of the box(I buy KIT).
Simply doing a "write-off" on 2 out of 4 printers can make sense in a business-perspective; you have probably had full Return-On-Investment on those machines and will simply order new and potentially faster machines that work out of the box with a smaller price-tag, and continue with your business. You don't care if the printer is assembled by actual slaves, in a factory that spews out toxins, designed by people that stole every idea they ever had, sold by a company that have contributed absolutely NOTHING to the community, have no interest supporting their products long-term, or that the printer is most likely sending your designs back to China. Cheap and easy is better than everything else...
With current bambu lab announcement of Authorization Control System and locking the printers to cloud, prusa printer is a no brainer
I own a Prusa 3s with 36000 hours on it 😆
My first 3D printer was an Ultimaker 2e+, hugely expensive, but at the time, it really seemed like the best thing out there. Around the time MK3s came out, I got an Ultimaker 3e, again, hugely expensive, but it really seemed like something else back then! Now, 5 years later, my UM3e is mostly forgotten, it's still here, I still have some 2.85mm filament for it, it still works, but it's features just aren't there. I honestly got jealous when I saw Prusa send out major firmware updates for older printers, heck even the Mini got major boost in performance, yet Ultimaker has abandoned older printers long ago. I'm pretty sure that once I spend my 2.85mm filament, I'll take out all the proprietary parts from that UM3e, and give it a single nozzle head with Trianglelab parts or something like that. I did something similar with UM2e+, and it's still being used. Way back when, I also bought some (much much much) cheaper CR-10s pro's, and with cheap upgrades, they are still running, very reliably. The whole experience thought me to avoid expensive and proprietary stuff. Core One looks super cool, if someone gifted it to me, I'd gladly use it, but I would never buy it. Not when I can get an Infimech Tx and get all the performance I need from it, right out of the box, and if it starts falling behind, it will be very easy to change/upgrade what I feel like. Prusa has its audience, and many fans, so I have no doubt that Core One will sell well, but I fell it's just not interesting enough to justify that price in the current market.
Good video. Definitely getting core one now. The cost of the machine is not that big a deal long term but seeing how much more less plastic it wastes. It seems like over the life of the printer the savings in plastic would pay for the difference in cost. Excellent video.
-Longevity
-Customer service
-You can just buy the upgrade kit to transform your Mk4 to the Core One so you get the machine for half the price of a comparable new machine
I totally see the selling point. Especially professionals who value customer service can't overlook this.
U completely disregard the fact that the Mk4 itself is a overpriced machine. So u in total paying as much as an x1c with the ams. I dont think it is possible prusa fan are all this ignorant, im guessing most are bots now so 010010101101010101
Pretty sure there Core One upgrade is only for the 4S. No direct 4 to core
A lot of people ignore these, but the reliability, ease of repair, and expectations of future compatibility from Prusa is amazing.
People say they're expressive, and they are, not for someone who just wants to tinker with a 3d printer. But, for someone who wants that quality and the brand behind it, it's worth it. There's no reason so many print farms would have Prusa if they weren't worth it to at least some people.
@@tired5925 The MK4 is expensive yes, but not overpriced for what it offers. They offer an amount of service, quick repairability, and customer service you don't quite get from other 3d printers.
I will say, these benefits make it more of a print-farm style printer, than one many people would want as their only printer. It doesn't have the same versatility as an enclosed and multicolor 3d printer, but that's not their target with the device. Their target are people who repeatably want to print quality on the few things they do print, and be able to make repairs and upgrades in the future.
@@dfwdweghom8902 This is correct as stated by Prusa so far. It would be upsetting if there wasn't a specific upgrade kit from MK4 to Core One. You CAN buy the MK4S upgrade for the MK4, but surely a MK4 to Core One conversion shouldn't cost the entire extra 100 USD to do.
This is awesome. Thanks so much for this overview and comparison! You've got a new subscriber.
One month after this came out and after bambu labs' latest shamefull activity Its safe to say that prusa are looking a lot better now.
I wanted to buy a Bamboo X1 Carbon but due to the newest "Security" feature update of Bamboo I try to find out, if a model of PRUSA also have "Active Vibration
Compensation" function to have smooth lines. Can somebody give an answer on this, to know if MK4S or Core one does have such a stabilisation feature, what about Qidi Plus 4
The 3D printing community we watched grow & develop is in the middle of another evolution. As a former long standing Prusa fan, I've sold off my Prusa products. At the end of the day, the company that gives us the most features for the best price will win. Until someone beats Bambu at their own game, they will continue to rise to the top. Sure, people care about the morals that developed the community - Prusa was at the forefront of that but for how long will people care? Prusa really screwed up with this release IMO. They had an opportunity to respond strong to Bambu's X1C and what did they do instead? Gave us less features for a considerable amount more than the X1C. The community loyalty that shielded Prusa is coming to an end. Eventually people will stop caring about the past and Prusa will be left behind as another company in history that got too comfortable at the top and stopped innovating (see Blackberry).
Hard for a European company to compete with Chinese costs, unfortunately
@@FarrelClement Many people ore prepared to pay a premium to receive premium features (X1C vs P1S is an example). What the OP has said is correct - Prusa are charging a premium without any value-add, and that's why their hole is getting deeper.
Been a longtime Prusa fan. Completely switched to bambulab. The Prusa premium just isnt worth it.
@@FarrelClement prusa didn't even tried. I knew prusa printer since 2017 and until 2019 where I decided to get a printer, they still are not available unless I paid a ridiculous delivery fee (they have no competition during this period). And they have a killer machine Prusa XL but didn't bother to release a price down ver where it would be far more competitive than a X1 clone
That the right mindset for customers. This applies to any other market. If there is competition, there will be better products, but if there is none, companies won't see any need to improve, and this will reflect on us as consumers.
With the new "Adversary Controlled Applications Act" hitting Chinese companies, America's current political situation, and Bambu's forced cloud and possible pivot towards requiring subscription on the imagined horizon... I don't think I'll be buying a Bambu printer for the next couple years at least.
Prusa for me. If I can’t slice and print locally I don’t want it. For censorship/privacy/IP protection concerns I don’t want anyone else involved in my printing.
On the same boat as you, but I do have to tell you that you can also do things locally with Bambu printers
@@04th57 bambu printers still collect your data even when on LAN. The collected data is just stored in the memory until the moment you connect to the cloud, like to update your printer. Bambu will get your data one way or another, like it or not.
Does the core one offer an and system like add on?
I have a Bambu X1C with AMs at work, and recommend the Bambu ecosystem to everybody interested in 3D printers because of how incredibly trouble free it has been. The only problems we have had are hot ends breaking when they crash against a part which had failed bed adhesion (but they are cheap to replace) and GF/CF filaments breaking in the AMS a couple times. I should also say that I have only needed to replace hot ends 3-4 times, but that is the failure mode, not wearing out from abrasive filament. We have roughly 2,500 hours on our machine at this point. I ended up buying a P1S w/ AMS for home (and run it in LAN only mode) because of my experience with the X1C. I think my only big reason to go with anybody other than Bambu is to avoid China Cloud Services.
For reference, we run almost exclusively Bambu filament (PETG-CF, PAHT-CF, PA6-GF, ASA, TPU-HF, for production; PLA and PETG-HF for tools/fixtures and quick mock-ups).
Prusa had crash detection since MK3S. Bambu breaking hotend when not that rare printing issue occurs is sign of poor design. Bambu is good printer, but in long term reliability Prusa is the winner.
I have a similar experience. I have an X1C and P1S using Bambu filaments. Apart from minor failures (z height detection failure and failure to retract filament), it has been a joy to use the Bambu Labs ecosystem. The printers come with a bunch of the consumables and replacements are inexpensive (wipers, blade cutters, etc). And if you don't want to print from the Bambu Cloud service, you don't have to. Octoprint has preliminary support for Bambu printers and the old SD card works fine as well.
You really shouldn't be running the abrasive filament through the AMS. At least that was what they said originally. Did that guidance change?
@@jan.bednarik Prusa crash detection has notoriously not worked well since the mk3s. Furthermore, Bambu also has crash detection. Furthermore, the heat break breaking is actually the best point to fail as its the cheapest point to replace.
and now there is a new issue...
also, regarding the "print with up to 16 colours", if you actually need all 16 in a single print, you'll probably end up with 90% of filament wasted
While I view the Prusa as premium product, I actually think they managed to keep the price reasonable considering the feature set. Is it the best deal on the market? Definitely not. I think Qidi probably has the sweet spot for price to high performance. That said, for printing mostly PLA and easier filaments, there are many better deals. Pros and cons to every brand, but I think the Prusa should be in consideration for anyone who wants a well supported, reliable, repairable machine which isn't totally made in China.
Your idea of premium is plastic instead of metal, plastic instead of glass, and 3D printed parts?
@hlop_vmp You are focusing on a single aspect, material type. There are absolutely products which are made from plastic which are more premium and generally superior to metal counterparts and vice versa. Premium also does not just imply quality or performance. Premium is often about a brand and isn't even necessarily a good thing. It can be adjacent to luxury. High quality doesn't always mean better overall. I used the term intentionally to imply the bad and the good. General quality should be high, but they are also charging a premium, if you will.
@@802Garage so your entire point is that prusa is "premium" not because the machines are better but the marketing is better?
@sowa705 No. You're completely misunderstanding the term.
I am deciding between the core one and bambulab P1S. I am a first time 3D printer buyer.
Go with the core one, Bambulab is not going well at the moment and they are making some really bad software choices - there is some good videos on YT if you're interested
Don’t forget that the CORE One boasts the ability to print PLA with the door closed, which is a pretty big deal if you want to print PLA on your desk next to you.
The bambu X1 and P1S can both do this using the chamber fan at 80%
@@captainheat2314Is that documented anywhere? On my X1C’s, they just yell that the doors need to be open.
@@Amarand My X1C has over 1K hours on in. Most of that with standard PLA. In all that time I don't think I have left the door open a single time.
@@Azreal34 Right, so Bambu expressly, in writing, states that standard PLA must be printed with the door open, in order to provide ventilation, avoiding issues with the extruder. How do you get around that, and is your procedure approved by Bambu?
@@Amarand Get around what? I am not contractually obligated to follow any of their suggestions on printing. I am telling you what works and you seem worried about their recommendations. I get that you are trying to dig up whatever you can to make Bambu sound bad and Prusa sound good. But you sound pretty silly here.
Both companies make great products that people should consider. Neither needs you to shill for them or try to make the other sound bad.
Got my Bambu A1 Christmas Day. It was already a paperweight and never printed a single thing.
I then found out;
Bambu has no automated returns process.
They have no support phone number.
They will make YOU pay to return there sh**y product.
7 days and still no response from their support team.
Don't buy Bambu Labs stuff, there's a reason it's so cheap
NOISY WASTE MACHINE...
reason why they have a 1.4 trustpilot rating
As a long time sufferer of the unworkable MMU2 (firmware was simply crap) and the MMU3 (endless tip tuning per filament) I can honestly say that comparing it to the Bambu AMS just shows the massive gap Prusa has in the multi material space. Prusa has nothing. Also the Bambu X1C is not throw away at all ... the parts to fix are easily available on the Bambu website and are really cheap. It's also very easy to work on and service and a very robust unit. Bambu parts are much better priced than Prusa parts. Prusa is just unable to compete on price. That said their work in the OpenSource space is to be commended particularly with their slicer.
Prusa has nothing? They have the XL, which is a lot less wasteful and can achieve actual multi material. The bambu is multi-colour, not true multimaterial.
How did prusa fall so far behind, when they appeared to be leading years back? If prusa himself were an engineer, then maybe things could have turned out different. It hard to support or depend prusa these days with what they are charging. Yeah, they really need to make their multicolor less diy looking, and more hassle free. That alone should be no go in 2025 when buying a 3d printer for multicolor.
They have a similar approach to noctua, give their engineers time to get things perfect so advancement has always been a bit slower, just in a new market with lower cost alternatives from china with actually good performance being pumped out faster and fatser their slower innovation strategy doesn't work as well anymore. That said they still have their european manuafturing and sourcing going for them, I do some times wonder how cheap prusa machines would be if they were made in china instead of europe.@@oneanother1
The MMU2 was a product with a known design defect. I fought with that thing for so many hours. I replaced the logic board, I replaced all of the servos (one by one). I printed custom feeds and pretty much every part from scratch. I contacted support. I started multiple threads. I wasted so much time trying to get that thing working. And the best I got was "keep trying, you'll get it!". No. I didn't get it working because it was a faulty design. And to prove it, I took that little power board from the MMU3 and put it on my MMU2 and it stopped giving the 5 flashing lights.
I will never forgive Prusa for that experience. I got my P1S with MMU and it's night and day. In just one year, I have as many hours on my bambu than I was able to achieve with my Prusa in 6 years. I spent so many hours with it fiddling and fighting.
skywardsoul, unless you have ever suffered with an MMU2 unit then I don't think you can understand why we see Prusa as a piece of crap. And the XL at $4000 is not a consumer printer, nor is it a competitor to the P1S or the X1C.
EDIT: Oh and don't forget the time they told me I needed to flash the firmware, then the zip download for the MMU2 didn't have the right files in it.
@@skywardsoul1178which for 5 colors costs the price of like 3 x1c
Manufacturing in Europe, Prusa has to focus on customers who value quality, repairability and great service. Which will be commercial clients.
Yet being manufactured in EU has not guaranteed better reliability or serviceability than the chinese BL, and that's according to people running print farms, not hobbyists.
0:34 Happy to see my B-Roll being put to good use :) Excited to watch the rest of the video :)
Wish he would refuse to ever mention your channel given your endorsement of geno-side.
My Bambu X1C with AMS has over 7000 hours on it. It finally broke the XY belts at 7080 hours. Not sure why your Bambus have broken, but that isn't the normal experience. Your Bambus aren't working because you haven't taken the time to fix them. In the two years of ownership, I have spent probably $175 in replacement parts to include a couple of hot ends, an extruder (but found the old one still works so it's now a spare), the XY belts, some PTFE tubing, two tension pulleys, and a controller fan. Mine actually prints better than it did when I got it due to the firmware and software updates. I'm in a wait and see mode as far as the new "firmware" everyone is saying will lock everything down. I don't think it will affect my workflow, but I'm not a business. I also print using Bambu slicer and use the app so no customizations. I've sure gotten my money's worth out of this printer.
I got a p1s earlier this year and just picked up an almost brand new mk3s for $200 just because i wanted a prusa.... options and competition are awesome there is a place for both.
Hi YGK3D, thanks for the balanced coverage. I just found your channel. What are the light gray blocks under your printers? They look like concrete pavers, perhaps? If you have a video that covers your setup, please let me know. Thanks!
@@curbynet thanks! Yea, just concrete pavers from the hardware store.
Even a Prusa fanboy like me, must accept the fact that Prusa just ain't leading the market at this point.
They still have many good aspects, but they have been sitting on their hands for too many years until they released the MK4.
The relase of Core One isn't a fix to the challenges they face.
However, I hope it's the beginning of a new chapter that MIGHT bring them back to a place among the leading pack.
I hope that improvements to Core One will follow in rapid succession with features like:
- A native and integrated camera,
- automated flow calibration,
- actively heated chamber,
- higher extruder and bed temperatures.
- Prusa LINK functionality at the level of Prusa Connect.
Also, a lot of great features have existed in Orca for some time and only a few are slowly finding their way to Prusa Slicer (Alpha).
Tools for easier filament tuning are still missing in Alpha, but it is nice to finally have multi-beds and paint-on fuzzy skin.
They really needed a bigger build plate and more colors. That's where the actual value comes from for the end user
I have two MK4S', and I will upgrade both once the upgrade becomes available. However, I am definitely in the tinkerer category, so it is probably a core (meh?) Prusa customer.
My printers started as kits and will remain as long as Prusa releases upgrades. They are basically maintenance-free and produce print after print without any issues.
The MMU3 works, and yes, out of the box, it takes up a lot of space, but I have my spools wall-mounted above the printer using rewinding spool holders, and then we're in the AMS-size territory. It's not as slick looking, I'll give you that :)
There are lots of ways for Chinese companies to get government subsidies. For example, it’s possible to get free office space. If you’re using semiconductors, you can benefit from subsidized domestic chips (China’s response to the US semiconductor embargo was to pump billions of dollars in to domestic chips). There are even ways for companies to recover loses from the government in certain cases. I suspect Bambu is a beneficiary of these subsidies, meaning they are able to sell for low margins in order to win market share and force competitors out of business.
This may sound fine, as we consumers are benefiting, but there is a long term threat. China is no longer content making stuff for Western and Japanese brands who then get the lion’s share of the margins. I don’t know that there’s a central government level strategy here, but in any case, the net effect will be Western brands will be forced to close, with significant economic impacts, and a reduction in consumer choice.
I also have it on good authority that Bambu uses similar shady marketing tactics as DJI (Bambu is funded by DJI’s investment arm), where they’ll employ people to smear the competition (DJI reportedly has a 50 person “black ops team” who are employed to post negative comments about their competitors). Is this the kind of behavior we want to reward?
@@JonS I'm disappointed to see you spreading such insane conspiracies.
It started out fine though I should point out that their initial investments were public and you can see it directly so no reason to assume, but gets really insane by the end.
You're at the same level as saying Prusa has a bit farm where funnily enough comments look more like that's true than they've ever looked like that's true for Bambu and they've looked that way from before Bambu ever existed.
@ I was at a company that was on the receiving end of DJI disinformation. One year, customers noticed a strangely large number of negative comments online about our new product. A few of them were able to trace back where they originated from (they weren’t covering their tracks back then).
As I said, I have it on good authority that Bambu uses the same tactics. And that good authority is not just a random commenter on the internet.
@@JonS "And that good authority is not just a random commenter on the internet."
It most certainly is. Your story quite frankly goes off into the deep end of delusion. It would be equally as believable if you said you worked as a spy for a 3 letter agency; that is to say that there is literally no evidence, proof or reasoning justifying any of this crazy claim.
@@JonS You as far as anyone could possibly discern are simply spreading FUD on the internet. Fanciful stories about proof you pinky promise totally exists but no one else knows about and which cant be shared.
As far as anyone could possibly discern this is simply rumours being spread on the internet. Fanciful stories about proof someone pinky promises totally exists but no one else knows about and which cant be shared.
Prusa is open source and made 3d printing main stream. What bamboo did?
not even trying to repair the x1 is insane
I’m looking to venture into the 3D printing hobby space. With decades in the IT industry, the idea of a Chinese, walled garden, cloud based product is actually terrifying. The Bambu feature set is definitely compelling, but I’m beyond over China’s industrial espionage tactics.
I am at 1.7k hours and 774 hours across my two x1c printing mostly pretty harsh ABS, ASA, and CF- materials and have needed very minimal maintenance compared to any other printer I have worked with from two Formlabs Fuse 1's, dozens of Lulzbot, dozens of Creality Ender's, several Voron, and a Trumpf TruPrint 5000
The Bambu Lab X1C has needed the least service and has been the most fire and forget of any printer I have experienced, the worst part is greasing the back lead screw, while even on machines that are coming close to $1,000,000 when you factor in all of the accessories, installation, shipping and training, the amount of down time is truly unreal, sometimes 2+ weeks to have a service technician come to service the equipment.
I’ve seen a bunch of 3D printers in action, and it really depends on what you want to print. But if you stick with it, you’ll get to making nice prints eventually.
Prusa 3D printers are legit amazing. I’ve got an MK4S at home, and I love how well-designed it is. It’s super easy to use, and the fact that you can upgrade it is such a huge plus. The print quality is awesome, everything I’ve made so far looks great, even the detailed stuff. But what I like the most is how reliable it is. I’ve done some pretty long prints, and it just keeps going without any issues. It’s one of those machines that makes you feel like you nailed the decision.The Core One printer is great, it looks promising in many ways as it is well thought out and I really like it a lot.
Interesting video and opinions. However, it always bugs me how many 3D Print RUclipsrs are solely focused on cost and what the best deal is for you as a consumer/hobbyist. I'm not a Prusa fanboy by any means, but I strongly believe that reparability, upgradability and making our machines as efficient as possible in terms of reducing plastic waste and energy, should be our top priority! And that this concern should supersede total cost. We only got this one planet guys.. And on these points, I believe Prusa still is, by far the strongest contender in the market.
What are the printers sitting on top of? are those plastic blocks?
@@Remote-Planet patio stones (concrete pavers)
Finally a prusa that doesn't look like a DIY project a high school kid made in his garage.
Core one looks really cheap with the stamped sheet metal. It is still a diy kit. I don't mind it being that, but it definitely not the level of manufacturing that other 3d printer companies have now. 3d printers nowadays don't have to cost a lot to make them print well.
@ I agree but it’s a step in the right direction. Prusa greatly undervalues product aesthetics imo.
If you're buying a printer based on how the machine looks, let's be honest, you aren't buying it to make things, you're just buying it to have a trendy conversation piece.
@@dreadpiraterobertsiv no, I'm basing it how well engineered it is. There's a difference from those who built a bambulab 3d printer and the diy 3d type machines. We are looking for innovation from the machine, we just aren't seeing it on the prusa core one. They pretty much transfered the mk4 parts onto a corexy design.
Prusa really needs to take a mass production approach to making a product. They should know that if they aren't competitive, well no one is going to buy their machines. Idk, they really need to I!prove their multicolor design, that has never seemed to work flawlessly since it was conceived years ago.
@@dreadpiraterobertsiv I get your point but there are multiple options with equal or better performance at the same or lower cost with better aesthetics for most of Prusa's products, other than their multihead printers which Bambu is scheduled to release in Q1 next year as well.
Just my two cents as the owner of a print farm: infrastructure is key. The cost of maintaining and repairing Prusa surpasses that of Bambu. While the quality-of-life features are good for people new to the hobby, they are useless for a farm that needs to meet MVP. You are right that the perception is that tech is disposable, but when you either replace the whole system or buy $50 in parts every quarter, there is no competition.
For me as a somewhat advanced home user the volume is the deal breaker on the core one. Even 250 cubed is jus limiting, and for small things I run a a1 mini in parallel. Looking forward to that H2D.
If that is the next Bambu (nothing is confirmed till it is). They hinted they were looking at the Prosumer market, not Consumer market for the next printer.And if the patents they filed in the last year or so are anything to go by, it will be something for the business user.
@@alexa5231 H2D is the next printer because it has leaked. Prosumer market is not a thing. Theres just grades for consumer from low end to high end. Whether you are making money from it does not really matter for the manufacturer and industry is entirely different beast. H2D will be a high end, larger printer with a new type of multi filament head/system. I hope it will cost under 2k, but I have not much hope for that.
I bought a ELEGOO Saturn 4 Ultra. It’s a phenomenal printer with amazing performance, but they fall short by upselling you their Chitubox software suite which is quite expensive for a slicer. With Prusa, you never get that feeling.
I think Prusa needs some kind of VVD system or a compact MMU inside a box. That way it could compete with X1C (not P1S). To compete with k2 plus and new generation of big size printer they need something like a “CORE ONE XL” (just a bigger core one with the bed from the XL and that “VVD” multimaterial system). Oh, please add a damm nozzle wiper
With the new Bambu Lab firmware, this will be my go-to when I run into issues with my X1C.
If you don't have time to even raise 2 support tickets on the bambu handy app, maybe its time you hire more staff to assist you. Or donate the printers to non-commercial users who could spend the time to fix them and then have a great asset for a new hobby.
It’s a business, not a charity. He isn’t obliged to give it for free when he could recover some cost from a printer form those who are willing to buy a damaged item.
Plus, when you write off stuff, sometimes you have to destroy it for the tax reasons.
@@slowcyclist4324 any of these things are better than doing nothing and leaving two expensive machines inoperable.
I can't wait to get the Core One conversion kit for my MK4S. And possibly converting my (3)mk3s+ to the mk4s and then the Core One.
I have an X1C with AMS, it has around 550 print hours. It's been collecting dust for weeks because I keep getting the Tool Head has fallen off error message for no reason. In addition the AMS is no longer recognized. I got a lot of spare parts from Bambu but replacing them is a pain and most of them are not fixing my issues (got my third toolhead cover, why?). I ordered a Core One now as its fitting my needs even better (e.g. printing fully closed PLA/PETG and active temperature control) and i hope for better/more effektiv support.
Brace yourself, a thousand people are about to start replying to you saying that their Bambu works just fine and has a million hours of printing no problem.
" I ordered a Core One now as its fitting my needs even better"
Wow you ordered and got a Core one BEFORE they even started shipping(jan 2025). This is $100% a real user...lmao. There are zero reviews, no active printer shipments, but somehow you have one....ok buddy.
Which version of unreleased Prusa slicer are you using that has Core One profiles?
Josef train your bots better, this is just embarrassing.
@@AmericanVirus-rf1rn He didn't say he'd received it. He said he ordered it. Put on your reading glasses.
@@warwickshaw155 lol
@@AmericanVirus-rf1rn I think you missed a "I hope" in their comment.
I bought a Bambu Labs X1E with four AMS and our machine runs almost 24/7 and has done for almost a full year. It’s had no problems and just required normal maintenance. My only complaint is the poop wiper sucks and the poop chute clogs and needs poked out/ cleared daily but mechanically and reliability wise the machine is fantastic. We use it to 3D print prototypes then make negative moulds around the 3D print then remove the printed part and have casting moulds. We used to need to get precision engineers or toolmakers to do this and it cost a fortune. This £1,200 X1E and another £1,000ish on four AMS has saved my company easily a quarter of a million (>£275,000) in the last 12 months on third party costs. Incredible little machine!
The force sensors in the X1C are a user replaceable (and pretty inexpensive - $5) parts, so your paper weight could be printing in no time and (almost) no money, the heated bed is also a user serviceable part but its not cheap (around $150, but so are Prusa's heated beds). The real issue with the X1C serviceability is the motion system, there are user-serviceable parts but they are expensive and there are some parts (like the Y axis bearing for example) that are not serviceable at all. Bottom line is - the serviceability of the Prusa printers is unparalleled, but the Bambu is mostly user serviceable but there are some parts that will render you printer useless if worn out.
Great video, lots of facts, 3d printing is becoming more of a serious business than just a hobby.
How fast will the market saturate though? It wouldn’t take much (relatively speaking) for a small handful of large farms to basically out price everyone else