When he said that looking back he realized God was with him the whole time even when he turned his back on Him, I almost cried. That is exactly how I feel. 20 years of turning my back on God, only to give my life to Jesus in my late 30s and to reflect back on my life and realize that God has been with me the entire time. God has been so good to me even though I am so undeserving of his goodness.
I know what you mean, brother. I have deserved exactly NONE of God's goodness, yet He opened the storehouses and poured down on me a blessing that I cannot contain. Malachi 3:10-12. Perhaps you might enjoy our Malachi series on the Christian Atheist.
Thanks so much for this podcast. Thank you, John, for sharing your journey. My husband and I now have more hope for our 50 year old son who has “deconstructed” and now doesn’t call himself a Christian at all. Thankfully, we still have a great relationship with him and his family. He knows what we believe and that we pray for him continually…he knows he’s loved.
A good example of nihilism is Frodo at the foot of Mount Doom. Tolkien's words are very brilliant. "I can't recall the taste of food, nor the sound of water, nor the touch of grass. I'm naked in the dark. There's nothing--no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I can see him with my waking eyes." So much of meaning comes from enjoyment or displeasure, to be a nihilist you must thrust yourself into the darkness and be taken by whatever dwells there.
I love your @TheLookingGlassAU moniker! I could see myself with that one, as my first book was titled "Through the Looking-Glass," and I teach at AU! I was also intrigued by your final statement. In my Christian Atheist series on "What is an atheist?" I make the point that atheists (other than Nietzsche) seldom, if ever, follow the logic of their position to its conclusion. Why? Because life itself is predicated on objective value. You can BELIEVE in an atheistic world, but you cannot LIVE in one.
And this is why we are told to surrender. Speaking as a highly intellectual and analytically thinking person, you eventully throw your hands in the air and give up. Eventually those hands in the air go from surrender to praise. You realise you have been taken captive by the gospel and you thank God you have been rescued from the constant overthinking of it all. We will never outsmart God. He is there for persons of every level of intelligence. From the child to the genius.....we will always find Him there at the end of our searching just waiting for us to surrender. Jesus saves. Merry Christmas!
An excellent summary, Teresa, for what Jenny and I have been learning over the last 5 years, and in greater specificity this LAST year. As I mentioned Antony Flew in the video, who "followed the argument" to theism near the end of his life (although regrettably never accepted Christ so far as we know), I will quote another notable contemporary philosopher, Thomas Nagel, who wrote in his book THE LAST WORD (1997): "I am talking about something much deeper-namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that SOME OF THE MOST INTELLIGENT AND WELL-INFORMED PEOPLE I KNOW ARE RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS. It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I'm right in my belief. It’s that I hope there is no God! I don’t want there to be a God; I don’t want the universe to be like that." (Emphasis mine) I have studied some of the greatest human minds in history, and NONE OF THEM compare to the Bible. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9. Studying God's word this last year has been one of the greatest intellectual journeys of my lifetime! You might appreciate our series on Malachi. It was central to ALL that God has done with me this year.
@TheChristianAtheist Yes... this year has been transformative for me as well. I've studied everything from ancient artifacts and temples to ufos and the mothership. At the bottom of every rabbit hole, I realize that the Holy Spirit called me, Jesus walked with me, and eventually, we end up at the Creator of the universe's house ...every... single... time. Not to sound new age, but I do tend to get "downloads" on a routine basis. It's as if I round a corner, and God says, "What took you so long?" We have a good laugh and then go on our next adventure.
"And those who know your name put their trust in you, for you, O LORD, have not forsaken those who seek you." Psalm 9:10 To know the Name of God is to know His Character. Studying His attributes as revealed through Scripture is a fine place to start.
Very interesting discussion! I, too, was Israel very close to the biblical account of Jericho’s location, in the year 2000. Our “guide” likewise, told us that there was no archeological evidence of the city or the walls and that even with this great passage of time, there should be something proving the biblical account correct. The Pool of Siloam was another amazing find..so I’ve been waiting for a discovery of Jericho’s walls!
I tried to send you links, but for some reason I was not allowed to do so. Do a RUclips search of "Digging for Truth the walls of Jericho." I might also suggest the Armstrong Institute for Biblical Archaeology. Do a search for Jericho and you'll get amazing results. The Christian Atheist
I’ve begun to draw distinction between faith, or spirituality and religion. - additionally, I see three basic types of religion: first, is the progressive religion as discuss in your podcast… Second, is the orthodox religion based in ceremony… And third, is the fundamentalist religion, which I see is more intense than orthodox religion. After my journey away from God (growing up Catholic), I would’ve considered myself agnostic. I never became hostile with God, and I always held out hope that perhaps God existed; but increasingly began to lose that help. It was actually giving the job as the medical officer for my department when I began to study more diligently about the human body. My intense study open the door for faith that has never closed again. I see there are two options when it comes to how we got here, one is blind painless, indifference (as Richard Dawkins would say), and the other has to be some sort of intelligent design. Now, I’m back! My faith and God is firm, and my belief in the Bible is sound. But I no longer fall into one of the three religious categories… I’m almost completely “non-religious” in the fact that I just can’t seem to go to a church anymore. I feel like I have a true relationship with God, and Jesus Christ, but it’s nothing that anyone preaches… And I miss that.
This is a great conversation. If I could humbly suggest, though, that believing in an old earth (to name but *one* contentious Biblical issue) does *not* mean you don't believe the Bible is true. It may be (and often is) that you read or interpret the Bible differently. e.g. Professor John Lennox believes the Bible doesn't particularly claim the 7 days were consecutive or following each other, so it isn't clear as to the age of the earth. I think it's a huge mistake that Christians make when they exhort other believers to believe what they themselves believe "because it's what the Bible says" .. when it is simply their reading and interpretation of what the Bible says. 🙏🏼
I love John Lennox and CS Lewis. Doesn't mean I need to agree completely with either of them to find value in their thinking. Philosophers entertain a whole host of systems of thought in their "intellectual toolchests." Each has its own particular "fit." I don't claim to be right on everything, but I must speak of that which I have learned and understood from my particular perspective, as God leads: "But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.” There IS a right answer to all our questions. We must seek it with all our hearts, for in doing so we seek the infinite being of the Creator. Old earth, young earth ... I see a pretty clear answer in scripture that I always had to EXPLAIN AWAY as an old-earther. Now ... I choose to believe what His word says quite simply and clearly. When eternity rolls around and I must give an account, I would rather God say to me, "you believed the plain sense of my word?" ... whatever the outcome. "Let God be true, and every man a liar."
The best lecture I’ve ever heard on the old earth Christian view, was the one called “why does the universe look so old” by Al Mohler. He does disappointment politically lately but that lecture is worth your time.
Sean my husband just turned on the science channel where the "experts" were saying the Greek said Jesus was killed by a Roman who speared him in the side. Also early Christians didn't talk about the cross until the 4th century therefore it's possible Christ wasn't crucified. I quickly changed the channel. Does the Biola Apologetic course address this kind of nonsense? Thank you for your videos.
The in gospels Jesus said that Jerusalem would fall but none of the gospels talk about that fall actually taking place. At the end of the book of Acts Paul is still alive. But he was killed by about 60 ad. The book of acts starts with the end of the book of Luke. The book of Luke quotes a passage in Mark that contains even earlier material. Clearly reports of Christ's death on the cross was out there within a few years of his death.
My first church was somewhat liberal, we had unbiblical women pastoras and I heard proper christianity explained by others around me and read my bible and I noticed i was in error in many ways.
Excellent, Max! This IS the journey ... finding out where we are wrong and allowing Reality to correct us. This is the structure of science, inspired by the Judeo-Christian worldview. The Bible is the ultimate guidebook. When we trust God's word, Reality will reveal itself to us when we use our reason and examine the evidence. Trust God and His provision to correct what ails us - the Lord Jesus Christ, and all else will fall into place.
You either believe the Bible is the word of God or you dont. We believe through faith, I dont need to see proof of every detail, God has given us all we need to know. We study the Bible to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word. What I dont understand I accept through faith. I let God lead me and I follow the written word of God. If a teaching is contrary to the Word of God, then I can not follow it. Let the scriptures be your guide, the Truth.
Replace the word “Bible” with “Qur’an” and notice the problem. Also, if you don’t find evidence useful for yourself, it’s at least helpful for evangelism.
A quick google search gives quite the extensive answer to why people believe the Bible is the word of God; "The Bible's accuracy The Bible is a historical document that accurately describes real people, places, and events. The Bible's claims The Bible claims to be the authoritative word of God, and over 3,000 times in the Bible it says, “Thus says the Lord”. The Bible's structure The Bible's unity, structure, and subject matter suggest a supernatural authorship. Jesus' view of the Bible Jesus believed the Old Testament was the word of God and predicted that the New Testament would be the same. The Bible's prophecies The Bible contains many prophecies, including over 700 specific prophecies about Jesus' coming. The Bible's transmission The Bible has remained pure throughout the centuries, despite many attempts to destroy it. The Bible's impact The Bible has had a positive influence on societies around the world, and has the power to transform people and nations. The Bible's self-attesting nature The words of Scripture claim to be from God. The Holy Spirit's power The Holy Spirit applies the truth of Scripture, which gives people confidence in the Word. "
There's a serious basic problem with replacing the Bible with the Qur'an. This is pretty bad. The Quran affirms the Bible & denies the crucifixion & death of Jesus. Moreover, there are historical, archeological & textual criticism problems with the Quran: "there are holes in the narrative" (Dr. Yasir Qadhi). This is a pretty typical blogging atheist belief & means you haven't even attempted to look or think.
Moreover, those atheists that decry evidence have none to offer for their own faith. In transition, based on modern day 21st century atheism every religion, belief, claim, every claim of werewolves, elves & FSMs can be true. Where did the universe come from??? "Nothing" (Stephen Hawking, Lawrence Krauss, Daniel Dennett, etc..) "Only believe where there's evidence" And you believe in the Multiverse??? So, there's an infinite or 10^500 universes Multiverse of which there's no evidence & they burst into existence from nothing.......what magnificent creativity: every movie is a documentary & is real somewhere in the MV
As my precious firstborn has chosen to deny God's presence in her life after as John has said giving her life to him in surrender as a very small child, five 6 years old. This is the blessed hope that he never fails and will keep his promise and after all these years it is what keeps me in peace and not despair in confidence of his keeping and sovereign power his beneficence. I love Jesus because he first loved me. I trust Jesus to hold my daughter and bring her back
My mother waited 25 years for me to return to the Lord. When it happened she had completed her life's journey and went to His loving arms in 3 months. She never stopped believing or praying. I told her many times as an atheist that it was a lost cause. She won ... and so did I! Praise God for His faithfulness - new every morning. I will pray for your daughter. Feel free to have her contact us if you think it could help.
I was excited about John Wise initially because I left Christianity while studying some of the same philosophers as Wise does. But listening to him speak he sounds like an ordinary Evangelical Christian. You’ve got to talk to me through philosophy to reach me and I’m not hearing it. And in the few philosophy videos on his channel I’ve watched I saw the common Christian philosopher approach of doing philosophy and theology separately and when they seem to conflict, jettison philosophy.
This is a perfect summary of my frustration with this conversation. I haven't quite left Christianity but on that trajectory. I was hoping for something fresh but left disappointed with the lack of good philosophy in this discussion.
@jaselando It's been 16 years for me. Still I keep on hoping for something fresh, even though I leave disappointed every time. This time was especially disappointing because my hopes were higher.
Start at the beginning of our podcast if you're looking for a heavy and integrated philosophical emphasis. My wife and I have have come to see together that, as Paul says, all things other than God's truth/wisdom is "dung." I gave my life to philosophy, and it has become a useful tool in my toolchest, but I will never again mistake it for what is of ultimate value - "to know Christ -yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death." When talking with Christians now, we need to correct the false pendulum swing toward the wisdom of the world. I still love philosophy, but only as it serves to advance our knowledge of God and point us toward His greatest wisdom as revealed in His word. Socrates would tell you that philosophy is, like science, a way to SEEK truth. Its value is instrumental.
The journey of faith in God in the Bible for me was a little bit like old-fashioned scales. Once I got past childhood, what I could see was that all of the weight was on the atheistic side of the scale. Then slowly one weight by one weight Evidence was moved from the atheistic side to the theistic side. Over a decade or so more than half of the weight had shifted… At some point, you realize that what you have been taught as absolute truth is probably only theory. And as the atheist theory has been dismantled in my life,I tend to take the theistic things more seriously, not only looking backwards… But looking forward as well. So now, if the Bible says something in contradiction to modern “knowledge”, I am much more hesitant to simply jump on the more recent learning.
One time I was walking in my neighborhood and just doubting everything about The Lord etc…and I kid you not….a Cadillac drove right past me with a big sign in the back of his car that read “Jesus is Alive”! “ He has Risen”! I was like, I think that’s a sign. Lol.
My 19 year old niece is deconstructing. I am praying for her continually as she used to love the Lord so much as a little girl. Now I pray that God would lead her to this man's website or tiktoc videos if he has them.
Do you watch people like Jim Tour, Stephen Meyer, Douglas Axe, or the Standing For Truth channel? Their messages show we don't need to compromise our Faith or Science. ✝️
@@Greenie-43x Excellent, Greenie! THAT is our message! Help us get it out! Our last episode is called "Mice of Aslan, Arise!" It is a call to the faithful to STAND in their places and BE the salt of the earth we are called to be. We cannot rely on our Christian leaders, who are compromising away the faith each and every day. Christianity is the most rational, evidence-based belief system on the planet. Science is on our side. Why? Because Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him. Join us in the revolution!
The more I feel like this world is a shadow of the kingdom of heaven… Akin to a dream, a hologram, the matrix, the holideck, whatever other analogy you can think of; consciousness is foundational, and material is secondary. Eternity is not simply a long time ago to a long time from now… It is not a long time at all, but timelessness. Contextualized properly, what is an old earth or a young earth philosophy? The same could be said for flat earth versus globe earth . In a video game, what is the shape of the Earth? Some of these arguments may simply vanish once we have the correct perspective.
In ✝️, wear critical thought is forbidden and frowned upon, which is why you have faith . In reality where critical thought is kryptonite for faith based assertions, ✝️, cannot survive critical thought.
In academic circles, where (not "wear," which means something entirely different) critical thought is forbidden and frowned upon, faith in science's hubris goes unquestioned. Critical thought is utterly forbidden when it comes to the doctrines of the church of materialist atheism.
Dr. Wise talked about progressive Christianity as compromising on what the Bible says. I am an agnostic and I still have some barriers to Christianity especially regarding Biblical authority or inerrancy. I think something like a progressive Christianity might be better at answering these objections. Is it worse to be a progressive Christian or a non-Christian who is holding out for a stronger Christianity?
You will never have all of your questions answered. I am not boasting, but I have a genius IQ. We want answers! Lol My suggestion is to just jump in and start swimming. Watching this channel is a good start. You are not here by accident, you know. You have been called. That's just the way this thing called faith works. I don't know your background, but God told me to respond to your comment. Merry Christmas. Jesus still saves.
What I would suggest, PiRobot, is to trust in the Lord Jesus and don't worry about those issues at this point. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 16:31. If you want to discover the truth you need the Holy Spirit's guidance. Then, take the Bible seriously, WHATEVER else you have been taught to think, and see where an honest asking, seeking and knocking will take you. There IS no stronger Christianity than that which God has given us. Trust Him to show it to you, for "without faith it is impossible to please God."
I think it depends on what you're looking for in Christianity. If you want the peace and comfort that can guide you through your many years left on Earth, progressive Christianity will likely provide a sense of well-being. If you want to accept Jesus' gift of eternal salvation, I would study The New Testament and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You might enjoy J Warner Wallace's approach. He introduced me to the idea that I don't need an inerrant Bible I need a Bible with a true account of God's Message, and that seems to be the case. Whether things have been added or things have been missing, if Jesus is God and He has risen, I listen!
@@teresahunt5521 So God told you to respond to a random comment on RUclips rather than actually contacting the person himself in a way that would convince him he's real? Don't you realise how crazy that sounds?
Hmmmm . . . I see quite a difference between those that left Evangelical Christianity for Atheism, and those, like myself, that were able to retain what was genuine in my Christian experience and deepen and broaden into a spirituality that is truly universal. Those who become atheists, tend to suppress their deepest spiritual hunger and so, when their secular humanist orientation fails to meet this yearning, they revert to the religious worldview of their childhood. When there is simply a dualistic choice between Christian faith and atheism, it is not surprising that people either abandon 'faith' when they explore the critiques and/or reconvert at some stage of life when they recognize the emptiness of a reductionist world view. What is missed is the whole, wide, rich world of spirituality that transcends culture and conditioning but can also draw on it. Also a spirituality that welcomes science, critical thinking and a willingness to live without certainty. Just for the record, I am a child of missionaries, was an avid Christian, was engaged in full time evangelism during much of my early adult life and was entirely convinced that it was the ultimate truth. It was only while attending a fundamentalist Bible School that I finally recognized just how britttle this tradition is - how narrow, and how deeply rooted in denial. It took a few years, but I eventually reached the place in which I found that what spoke most deeply to me in my time as an Evangelical could be found and expanded in other spiritual contexts.
Is it progressive Christianity to be inclusive of my Queer neighbors and family? Is that compromising of my faith to love and include my neighbor and family in love?
Read God's definition of love and you will see that it does not insist on its own way and does not rejoice at wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth (1 Corinthians 13:4-7). My position is that the church is inclusive in the sense that all people sin, need to hear the truth of the gospel and should have the opportunity to repent. However, the narrow gate, by definition, is not inclusive. Those who find it can no longer live according to their own ways. The function of the church is to urge people to repent and live holy lives for Christ - not to affirm or encourage us in our sinful ways.
@@what-about-bob while I understand your point, the issue I have here is by your definition, anything outside of a man and woman in a relationship is sinful. Why? Because the Bible is clear, as there are a handful of verses condemning anything outside of a man and woman in marriage. What does it mean to live holy in Christ? Can a gay person be in a committed monogamous relationship with their partner and still be able to glorify God by loving their neighbor and God? If your answer is no, then what exactly does it mean to glorify God? Does it mean to be inclusive of LGBTQ people loving, and not seeing their sexuality as sinful? Does it mean advocating for a more socialist form of government so that everyone has access to better health care, resources, and support from the government? Does it mean advocating for women's rights to reproductive healthcare so they can get the care that they need? If you think that these things are not glorifying God, or the process through which we glorify God, then how the hell do we glorify God? Again, what exactly are you talking about about? Just throwing blanket verse theology, like "love God" and "glorify God", and "repent of your sins" are meaningless unless you define them more fully and practically. God moves in the world through people, not in abstract theology we say for the sake of upholding our own theology.
This is interesting. @SeanMcDowell it would be awesome to see you talk to Tim Mahoney from Patterns of Evidence about the crisis of faith that his conversation with archaeologist Manfred Bietak produced and how eventually the "archaeological evidence" against the Exodus later was reinterpreted to be evidence that supported it.
“When we are willing to compromise the clear word of the scriptures “. But the scriptures are not clear, that is why we have thousands of denominations and apologists like You, Sean.
That reminds me of the quote by Mark Twain: "It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." I agree there are confusing scriptures in the Bible, but at the end of the day the question is, “What do we do with the parts that are very clear?”
@@danielweaver3361 The more I learn about scripture, the less confident I am in my conclusions. Not in the sense that I don't believe what I believe, but I'm far more accepting of contrasting opinions than I used to be.
After studying he concluded “there is no God”. I have studied, and would, for want of a better word, describe myself as an atheist, but I have not concluded that there is no God. I don’t know if there is a God, but I am not convinced by anything I have experienced, or studied that such an entity exists in any objectively obvious sense. Did Dr wise study every religion to find God? I haven’t that’s one of the reasons I cannot be certain he does not exist.
If you are waiting to study everything, you will never arrive anywhere. You have, at best, 100 years. At some point you must recognize your finitude and make a decision - is the world fundamentally GOOD or is it bad? If it is good, then follow the logic of that position. If it is bad, follow the logic of THAT position. BUT ... be fearless in following it! Do not be distracted or allow yourself to use anything from the opposing position. It is my contention that IF YOU DO THIS HONESTLY you will come to recognize that human nature REQUIRES God. There IS no human existence outside of God. If you logically follow the "bad" option you will take your own life, as that is the only logical solution. I pray you take the position that God underlies ALL of human rational existence.
@@TheChristianAtheist Yikes! What a weird thought process. The world is neither fundamentally good or bad; most things are on a spectrum and nuanced. What is considered good and bad is subjective, situational and temporal. Given that we have had thousands of gods throughout history, which “God” does human nature require? How would this world look any different with God or without God? All of your premises are faulty, therefore your conclusion is not just false, but patently absurd. If you’ve found God why don’t you get him to SHOW UP? There are billions who think they have found God, but it’s not the same God you believe in.
Without even hearing the rest of the narrative I am just touched at God's faithfulness. He keeps that which is his. John was his and no matter what choices and decisions countered his knowing of God God could not be changed. Could not lie could not fail. Could only keep his promise to keep John
From the book of Scripture which God used to BLOW MY MIND this year: Malachi 3:6-7: “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from my statutes and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD of hosts. "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
@@DrKippDavis You are mighty quick to judge others b/c YOU disagree with them. THIS is the mark of the credulous person. I teach critical thinking, and you would benefit from a basic class in it, as the principle of charity dictates that really listening and understanding is ALWAYS the very first step in engaging in honest debate. Sean has disagreements with nearly ALL of his guests, but his job AS AN INTERVIEWER is to allow his guests to make their arguments and present their positions. THIS is the mark of a good interviewer. You seem to be ideologically possessed, and to desire the suppression of all viewpoints that contradict your own. I, too, was an atheist, and understand your position.
Do a RUclips search for "The Christian Atheist Malachi 136" and it should come up. Alternatively, find our podcast on any of the major podcasting links and look for episode 136 and following. We've also begun a new series called "Malachi Revisited." So far there are only two episodes in this second series. We hope to complete it in the new year! The Christian Atheist
Progressive Christianity is understanding the culture and the context in which the Bible was written. The guest speaker has failed to underdtsnd what Progressive Christianity is all about.
dimitrisiliadis4939 I really want to encourage you to leave progressive Christianity and find another way of seeking God's truth. PC is deconstructing. Think of the twin towers ... once they tumble and collapse it will be so difficult to rebuild it again using those same pieces. Or think of a rubic's cube. Deconstruction will only mess with your mind and lead you further away from Christ. Get out of it. Once you discover the truth, no counterfeit will convince you otherwise. May God shine His light on you!
I actually laughed at the "trump card" reference as well, Timothy. I do indeed disagree with Lewis on some things. He was a man like any other. If you've ever read about his personal life, he was a mess, just like all the rest of us. He knew he needed a Savior, though, and he tried his best to help others find Him. I really think he made the point more clearly than I could, which is why I used that quote. Right or wrong, he wanted what he wrote to honor God, for which he deserves my thanks and respect. In the end, though, listen neither to Lewis, McDowell, or Wise, but to God's word. It is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path.
It was an archeological find of the curses given to the Israelites just before they entered the Promise Land. It is a very small metal piece with curses written on it. The blessing and curse event is recorded in the Bible. It was dug up at the exact location of where the blessing and curse ceremony took place.
@ The group on Mount Gerizim would pronounce covenant blessings over Israel, and the group atop Mount Ebal would shout covenant curses (which the Israelites do in Joshua 23-24).
It is an embarrassing mistake made by the Associates for Biblical Research that has been absolutely lambasted by the entire Levantine archaeology community. Wise's uncritical acceptance of claims made for this illegally procured object show us clearly how woefully credulous he is.
@@DrKippDavis If you had taken the time to listen to what I have actually said on this discovery, you would know that my judgment is still suspended on it. It is clear, however, that YOU have uncritically bought, hook, line and sinker (pun intended) the unscientific dismissal of it. I am content to allow the process to take its course, whereas the critics (themselves ideologically blinded) want to shut down critical inquiry. It would be nice if you could actually be a LITTLE skeptical and not so credulous in your statements. There are two embarrassing things about ABR: 1) the ridiculous announcement (poor judgment b/c of) 2) the employment of Gershon Galil and his bombast. Still ... however radical Galil is, he is mild in comparison to the embarrassing vitriol of Robert Cargill. I would guess you align yourself with him. You display your own ideological bias by claiming falsely that this was illegal. The facts speak otherwise, but facts are something with which you seem willing to play fast and loose.
They won't ever find the bones of Jesus as He went back up with Flesh and Bone....as He bled out while on earth...and while IF someone found His Bones.. it would be on His return trip...IN HIS glorified Body. God's Only Son Permits Eternal Life! 😇🙏💪
One who :worships" the Bible probably knows that Jesus tells us His word is spirit, then we are told to walk in the spirit and and they have come to know that the Bible is God/Jesus, The Word. There are millions of people with the Holy Spirit. Just like Jesus, many have Him at hand. You can handle Him, see Him and still not know Him. The Holy Spirit is a book, it is a book that speaks of Jesus. It talks of the works of Jesus/The Word through the descendants of Abraham. Then The Word was made flesh, we know Him now as Jesus. Jesus has returned to His former glory, meaning He is again The Word of God. We should know Him now as Lord for He was given the authority over all. The Holy Spirit is the Bible. It is the Bible or Holy Spirit that will teach us. That is why we must follow Scripture and do as that Spirit teaches. While, especially in the O.T., we must do what we know or think we can learn to do, we must remember we cannot do it all. However, we can at least try to do as much as possible, remembering that none of this is required for Salvation. We repeat, none of what we do is required for salvation, not even feeding the hungry, or clothing the naked. These are works that beautify our salvation, they don't make it. After all Jesus died for our salvation two thousand years ago. We are too late to do so now. One must remember that those laws were given to a nation and no one man can do them all. Just as today one may not be able to feed the hungry if they are barely feeding themselves or if they are disabled etc.. We should do what we can. When we are instructed to put on the Holy Spirit we are told how in Deut.6:8-9. So again we do what we can, if is to write the Ten Commandments, bind them and wear them, then do that. If you are limited on writing then put on "Jesus wept.", do what you can do. To walk in the Holy Spirit is to have it upon you and what you own. He isn't asking us to do the impossible but to do what we can. IF one is unable to make what we are told to put on, find someone who makes that garment so you can, one day wear the armour our Lord gives us as we obey Him, to protect and keep us through the trying times.May our Lord and God go with us all.
This title is the exact language I detest in Christian circles, it encourages a blurring of the lines between politics and Christianity, and makes even Bible believing democrats feel uncomfortable listening. I wonder what it does for unbelieving democrats. If politics is your priority, feel free to ignore this comment, if the gospel is, think it through. I guess it might be challenging to serve the Lord and have a RUclips channel because most eventually go for sensational sounding title for clicks and likes.😢😢
Excuse me of one addition ... Romans 16:19 - "But I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil." This admonishes Christians to study and know the full counsel of God. Focus on "that" so you can easily recognize false doctrines that come along. Listening the Dr Wise, it appears that he went way way way off the deep end with the study of false doctrines and philosophies. What a muddy mess of intellectual garbage! Let's do all we can to keep our focus where it belongs.
Two questions for Chris Why is it that his best doctrine analogy is a fantasy world? If Chris found out that his wife was given a love pill that forced her to love him, would he still feel the same about her?
I wonder how many people have been led aways from faith in the biblical God by people like William Lane Craig and Hugh Ross, who reject that God created everything about 6,000 years ago?
This is our worry, too, Rob! If all we are is a carbon copy of the world's ideas and thoughts, having compromised away the real substance of Christianity and the Holy God, why choose to believe it at all? The Gospel, we are told, is a stumbling block. If there is nothing "difficult" about it, then we are probably not preaching God's word. 1 Corinthians 1:20-25: "Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." (ESV)
I don’t know anyone who has been led away from faith by them personally. I do know some who have been led away by YEC though. I hear it all the time. My point here is be careful what you say. It can backfire on you.
It should not surprise us at Chris’s maturity level, telling a brother to lose your phone number and deleting him… In truth it’s the same character trait that Chris believes about his Calvinist god. I respect Chris for some of his beliefs, but this response to a fellow child of God is not biblical.
This is the Hill I’m going to die on. Wise is not a bible scholar, he does not speak Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek, the languages the scriptures were originally written in. Therefore he is relying on translations and the bible being inerrant. He has no idea what Jesus said, he believes the hearsay. That is no basis to come to a life altering conclusions . For that reason I cannot go beyond 38.29, it’s pointless.
Anthony Flew had dementia. If you want to hang your hat on his belief in a god late in life you’re not going to persuade many of his questionable “conversion.”
Sorry to hear that about Flew. Denying God exists just seems plain ridiculous to me. I have had times where I didn't like that there was a God who was unhappy with me and would judge me, but I never doubted that He existed.
@@catharsis77 Ridiculous, or unimaginable? I said the same thing. It turns out, Christianity tends to misrepresent atheism a lot, and unless you actually hear what they have to say, it’s easy to jump to conclusions.
I pity people who are born into a religious family and are compelled to believe a load of garbage. They have an excellent excuse for their ignorance. Not so an adult capable of rational thought who chooses to let superstition and folklore replace reality.
I fully agree with you, Traffic-law. I am astonished how many atheists continue to blindly and uncritically follow the myths into which they have been indoctrinated, even after they have been liberated from the dominance of hyper-rational philosophical parental and cultural superstitions. I would simply ask them as adults to make an attempt at skepticism.
Bible says Jesus claimed a deep connection to the creator of the universe, but Never that he Was the actual creator of the universe,,, let's get clear on this without extra embellishments that come into Many direct conflicts with many bible verses where Jesus absolutely states that the Father is greater than him and that his Father has deeper knowledge and wisdom..... do a search... there are many times that Jssus confirms thus.... even in John's acount of the word being God... in the original text it becomes truly coherent as meaning 'a god' as in first Son of God...
He's not "a god" but the word of God. The very power through which God the father created the universe, therefore eternal since without creation there is no creator and no creator without the word. That's why it's God himself incarnate in Jesus, the son.
It sounds like you’ve already made up your mind and are arguing from a particular worldview instead of asking a genuine question. This is dishonest and disingenuous.
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When he said that looking back he realized God was with him the whole time even when he turned his back on Him, I almost cried. That is exactly how I feel. 20 years of turning my back on God, only to give my life to Jesus in my late 30s and to reflect back on my life and realize that God has been with me the entire time. God has been so good to me even though I am so undeserving of his goodness.
I know what you mean, brother. I have deserved exactly NONE of God's goodness, yet He opened the storehouses and poured down on me a blessing that I cannot contain. Malachi 3:10-12. Perhaps you might enjoy our Malachi series on the Christian Atheist.
Prayer of Footsteps on the Beach.
@@williambranch4283 Now it would be just nice to know His location relative to John Smyth, et al...
@@chrissonofpear1384above the firmament
Amen Josh6066, God has never left you nor has He forsaken you. What a good, kind, loving God we serve!
Sean asks unbelievably good questions that are incredibly thought provoking.
Thanks so much for this podcast. Thank you, John, for sharing your journey. My husband and I now have more hope for our 50 year old son who has “deconstructed” and now doesn’t call himself a Christian at all. Thankfully, we still have a great relationship with him and his family. He knows what we believe and that we pray for him continually…he knows he’s loved.
Why not have him contact us?
Wow! Loved this! Will definitely get DR Wise’s book! Thank you for another amazing video DR McDowell
Glad you enjoyed it!
A good example of nihilism is Frodo at the foot of Mount Doom. Tolkien's words are very brilliant.
"I can't recall the taste of food, nor the sound of water, nor the touch of grass. I'm naked in the dark. There's nothing--no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I can see him with my waking eyes."
So much of meaning comes from enjoyment or displeasure, to be a nihilist you must thrust yourself into the darkness and be taken by whatever dwells there.
I love your @TheLookingGlassAU moniker! I could see myself with that one, as my first book was titled "Through the Looking-Glass," and I teach at AU!
I was also intrigued by your final statement. In my Christian Atheist series on "What is an atheist?" I make the point that atheists (other than Nietzsche) seldom, if ever, follow the logic of their position to its conclusion. Why? Because life itself is predicated on objective value. You can BELIEVE in an atheistic world, but you cannot LIVE in one.
And this is why we are told to surrender. Speaking as a highly intellectual and analytically thinking person, you eventully throw your hands in the air and give up. Eventually those hands in the air go from surrender to praise. You realise you have been taken captive by the gospel and you thank God you have been rescued from the constant overthinking of it all. We will never outsmart God. He is there for persons of every level of intelligence. From the child to the genius.....we will always find Him there at the end of our searching just waiting for us to surrender. Jesus saves. Merry Christmas!
An excellent summary, Teresa, for what Jenny and I have been learning over the last 5 years, and in greater specificity this LAST year. As I mentioned Antony Flew in the video, who "followed the argument" to theism near the end of his life (although regrettably never accepted Christ so far as we know), I will quote another notable contemporary philosopher, Thomas Nagel, who wrote in his book THE LAST WORD (1997): "I am talking about something much deeper-namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that SOME OF THE MOST INTELLIGENT AND WELL-INFORMED PEOPLE I KNOW ARE RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS. It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I'm right in my belief. It’s that I hope there is no God! I don’t want there to be a God; I don’t want the universe to be like that." (Emphasis mine) I have studied some of the greatest human minds in history, and NONE OF THEM compare to the Bible. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9. Studying God's word this last year has been one of the greatest intellectual journeys of my lifetime! You might appreciate our series on Malachi. It was central to ALL that God has done with me this year.
@TheChristianAtheist Yes... this year has been transformative for me as well. I've studied everything from ancient artifacts and temples to ufos and the mothership. At the bottom of every rabbit hole, I realize that the Holy Spirit called me, Jesus walked with me, and eventually, we end up at the Creator of the universe's house ...every... single... time. Not to sound new age, but I do tend to get "downloads" on a routine basis. It's as if I round a corner, and God says, "What took you so long?" We have a good laugh and then go on our next adventure.
@@teresahunt5521 LOL ... that's pretty much on point!
Thank you for your time guys!
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏿
His grace and mercy be upon you both and your loved ones 🕊️🥛🍯
"And those who know your name put their trust in you, for you, O LORD, have not forsaken those who seek you." Psalm 9:10
To know the Name of God is to know His Character. Studying His attributes as revealed through Scripture is a fine place to start.
Very interesting discussion! I, too, was Israel very close to the biblical account of Jericho’s location, in the year 2000. Our “guide” likewise, told us that there was no archeological evidence of the city or the walls and that even with this great passage of time, there should be something proving the biblical account correct. The Pool of Siloam was another amazing find..so I’ve been waiting for a discovery of Jericho’s walls!
I tried to send you links, but for some reason I was not allowed to do so. Do a RUclips search of "Digging for Truth the walls of Jericho." I might also suggest the Armstrong Institute for Biblical Archaeology. Do a search for Jericho and you'll get amazing results. The Christian Atheist
Please debate with Randal Rauser. He has critiqued some of your videos.
I’ve begun to draw distinction between faith, or spirituality and religion. - additionally, I see three basic types of religion: first, is the progressive religion as discuss in your podcast… Second, is the orthodox religion based in ceremony… And third, is the fundamentalist religion, which I see is more intense than orthodox religion.
After my journey away from God (growing up Catholic), I would’ve considered myself agnostic. I never became hostile with God, and I always held out hope that perhaps God existed; but increasingly began to lose that help.
It was actually giving the job as the medical officer for my department when I began to study more diligently about the human body. My intense study open the door for faith that has never closed again. I see there are two options when it comes to how we got here, one is blind painless, indifference (as Richard Dawkins would say), and the other has to be some sort of intelligent design.
Now, I’m back! My faith and God is firm, and my belief in the Bible is sound. But I no longer fall into one of the three religious categories… I’m almost completely “non-religious” in the fact that I just can’t seem to go to a church anymore. I feel like I have a true relationship with God, and Jesus Christ, but it’s nothing that anyone preaches… And I miss that.
Each makes an individual journey, not a collective journey. But we aren't alone in the world. There are others on the same path you are following ;-)
@ amen brother
Although a book with crucial missing details, is not always going to the firmest thing to work with, admittedly.
@ - A m always curious what people mean when they criticize the Bible… I get it, but I like details - can you give one?
@@rduse4125 For one, Satan kept any ruddy powers... because...?
This is a great conversation. If I could humbly suggest, though, that believing in an old earth (to name but *one* contentious Biblical issue) does *not* mean you don't believe the Bible is true. It may be (and often is) that you read or interpret the Bible differently. e.g. Professor John Lennox believes the Bible doesn't particularly claim the 7 days were consecutive or following each other, so it isn't clear as to the age of the earth.
I think it's a huge mistake that Christians make when they exhort other believers to believe what they themselves believe "because it's what the Bible says" .. when it is simply their reading and interpretation of what the Bible says. 🙏🏼
I love John Lennox and CS Lewis. Doesn't mean I need to agree completely with either of them to find value in their thinking. Philosophers entertain a whole host of systems of thought in their "intellectual toolchests." Each has its own particular "fit." I don't claim to be right on everything, but I must speak of that which I have learned and understood from my particular perspective, as God leads: "But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.” There IS a right answer to all our questions. We must seek it with all our hearts, for in doing so we seek the infinite being of the Creator. Old earth, young earth ... I see a pretty clear answer in scripture that I always had to EXPLAIN AWAY as an old-earther. Now ... I choose to believe what His word says quite simply and clearly. When eternity rolls around and I must give an account, I would rather God say to me, "you believed the plain sense of my word?" ... whatever the outcome. "Let God be true, and every man a liar."
The best lecture I’ve ever heard on the old earth Christian view, was the one called “why does the universe look so old” by Al Mohler. He does disappointment politically lately but that lecture is worth your time.
Sean my husband just turned on the science channel where the "experts" were saying the Greek said Jesus was killed by a Roman who speared him in the side. Also early Christians didn't talk about the cross until the 4th century therefore it's possible Christ wasn't crucified. I quickly changed the channel. Does the Biola Apologetic course address this kind of nonsense? Thank you for your videos.
He needs to check out Wes Huff.
well, he was speared in the side, and water came flowing out, but he died on the cross
Good grief, the Science Channel going full Ancient Aliens like the History Channel
The in gospels Jesus said that Jerusalem would fall but none of the gospels talk about that fall actually taking place.
At the end of the book of Acts Paul is still alive. But he was killed by about 60 ad. The book of acts starts with the end of the book of Luke. The book of Luke quotes a passage in Mark that contains even earlier material. Clearly reports of Christ's death on the cross was out there within a few years of his death.
Science says….trust me, bro!
My first church was somewhat liberal, we had unbiblical women pastoras and I heard proper christianity explained by others around me and read my bible and I noticed i was in error in many ways.
Excellent, Max! This IS the journey ... finding out where we are wrong and allowing Reality to correct us. This is the structure of science, inspired by the Judeo-Christian worldview. The Bible is the ultimate guidebook. When we trust God's word, Reality will reveal itself to us when we use our reason and examine the evidence. Trust God and His provision to correct what ails us - the Lord Jesus Christ, and all else will fall into place.
You either believe the Bible is the word of God or you dont. We believe through faith, I dont need to see proof of every detail, God has given us all we need to know. We study the Bible to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word. What I dont understand I accept through faith. I let God lead me and I follow the written word of God. If a teaching is contrary to the Word of God, then I can not follow it. Let the scriptures be your guide, the Truth.
Why should anyone believe that the Bible is the Word of God?
Replace the word “Bible” with “Qur’an” and notice the problem. Also, if you don’t find evidence useful for yourself, it’s at least helpful for evangelism.
A quick google search gives quite the extensive answer to why people believe the Bible is the word of God;
"The Bible's accuracy
The Bible is a historical document that accurately describes real people, places, and events.
The Bible's claims
The Bible claims to be the authoritative word of God, and over 3,000 times in the Bible it says, “Thus says the Lord”.
The Bible's structure
The Bible's unity, structure, and subject matter suggest a supernatural authorship.
Jesus' view of the Bible
Jesus believed the Old Testament was the word of God and predicted that the New Testament would be the same.
The Bible's prophecies
The Bible contains many prophecies, including over 700 specific prophecies about Jesus' coming.
The Bible's transmission
The Bible has remained pure throughout the centuries, despite many attempts to destroy it.
The Bible's impact
The Bible has had a positive influence on societies around the world, and has the power to transform people and nations.
The Bible's self-attesting nature
The words of Scripture claim to be from God.
The Holy Spirit's power
The Holy Spirit applies the truth of Scripture, which gives people confidence in the Word. "
There's a serious basic problem with replacing the Bible with the Qur'an. This is pretty bad.
The Quran affirms the Bible & denies the crucifixion & death of Jesus. Moreover, there are historical, archeological & textual criticism problems with the Quran: "there are holes in the narrative" (Dr. Yasir Qadhi).
This is a pretty typical blogging atheist belief & means you haven't even attempted to look or think.
Moreover, those atheists that decry evidence have none to offer for their own faith.
In transition, based on modern day 21st century atheism every religion, belief, claim, every claim of werewolves, elves & FSMs can be true. Where did the universe come from???
"Nothing" (Stephen Hawking, Lawrence Krauss, Daniel Dennett, etc..)
"Only believe where there's evidence"
And you believe in the Multiverse???
So, there's an infinite or 10^500 universes Multiverse of which there's no evidence & they burst into existence from nothing.......what magnificent creativity: every movie is a documentary & is real somewhere in the MV
As my precious firstborn has chosen to deny God's presence in her life after as John has said giving her life to him in surrender as a very small child, five 6 years old. This is the blessed hope that he never fails and will keep his promise and after all these years it is what keeps me in peace and not despair in confidence of his keeping and sovereign power his beneficence. I love Jesus because he first loved me. I trust Jesus to hold my daughter and bring her back
My mother waited 25 years for me to return to the Lord. When it happened she had completed her life's journey and went to His loving arms in 3 months. She never stopped believing or praying. I told her many times as an atheist that it was a lost cause. She won ... and so did I! Praise God for His faithfulness - new every morning. I will pray for your daughter. Feel free to have her contact us if you think it could help.
The same faith sustains me as I hope and pray for the return of my adult children to Jesus
@@kathleenvitello6233 Just not maybe by first interacting with John Smyth...?
I was excited about John Wise initially because I left Christianity while studying some of the same philosophers as Wise does. But listening to him speak he sounds like an ordinary Evangelical Christian. You’ve got to talk to me through philosophy to reach me and I’m not hearing it. And in the few philosophy videos on his channel I’ve watched I saw the common Christian philosopher approach of doing philosophy and theology separately and when they seem to conflict, jettison philosophy.
This is a perfect summary of my frustration with this conversation. I haven't quite left Christianity but on that trajectory. I was hoping for something fresh but left disappointed with the lack of good philosophy in this discussion.
@jaselando It's been 16 years for me. Still I keep on hoping for something fresh, even though I leave disappointed every time. This time was especially disappointing because my hopes were higher.
Start at the beginning of our podcast if you're looking for a heavy and integrated philosophical emphasis. My wife and I have have come to see together that, as Paul says, all things other than God's truth/wisdom is "dung." I gave my life to philosophy, and it has become a useful tool in my toolchest, but I will never again mistake it for what is of ultimate value - "to know Christ -yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death." When talking with Christians now, we need to correct the false pendulum swing toward the wisdom of the world. I still love philosophy, but only as it serves to advance our knowledge of God and point us toward His greatest wisdom as revealed in His word. Socrates would tell you that philosophy is, like science, a way to SEEK truth. Its value is instrumental.
Nice comeback!
The journey of faith in God in the Bible for me was a little bit like old-fashioned scales. Once I got past childhood, what I could see was that all of the weight was on the atheistic side of the scale. Then slowly one weight by one weight Evidence was moved from the atheistic side to the theistic side. Over a decade or so more than half of the weight had shifted… At some point, you realize that what you have been taught as absolute truth is probably only theory. And as the atheist theory has been dismantled in my life,I tend to take the theistic things more seriously, not only looking backwards… But looking forward as well. So now, if the Bible says something in contradiction to modern “knowledge”, I am much more hesitant to simply jump on the more recent learning.
@rduse4125 This is the story of my turn from atheism. Incredibly well-done! Perhaps you would like to take my next interview for us!
@ - Thank you sir for the reply…excellent interview!
God bless and Merry Christmas!
One time I was walking in my neighborhood and just doubting everything about The Lord etc…and I kid you not….a Cadillac drove right past me with a big sign in the back of his car that read “Jesus is Alive”! “ He has Risen”! I was like, I think that’s a sign. Lol.
My 19 year old niece is deconstructing. I am praying for her continually as she used to love the Lord so much as a little girl. Now I pray that God would lead her to this man's website or tiktoc videos if he has them.
Do you watch people like Jim Tour, Stephen Meyer, Douglas Axe, or the Standing For Truth channel?
Their messages show we don't need to compromise our Faith or Science. ✝️
@@Greenie-43x Excellent, Greenie! THAT is our message! Help us get it out! Our last episode is called "Mice of Aslan, Arise!" It is a call to the faithful to STAND in their places and BE the salt of the earth we are called to be. We cannot rely on our Christian leaders, who are compromising away the faith each and every day. Christianity is the most rational, evidence-based belief system on the planet. Science is on our side. Why? Because Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him. Join us in the revolution!
I like that clock behind Dr Wise.
The 6 6 6 seems like something you'd notice and think better of putting right behind you, but I guess he's okay with it.
The more I feel like this world is a shadow of the kingdom of heaven… Akin to a dream, a hologram, the matrix, the holideck, whatever other analogy you can think of; consciousness is foundational, and material is secondary.
Eternity is not simply a long time ago to a long time from now… It is not a long time at all, but timelessness. Contextualized properly, what is an old earth or a young earth philosophy? The same could be said for flat earth versus globe earth . In a video game, what is the shape of the Earth?
Some of these arguments may simply vanish once we have the correct perspective.
In ✝️, wear critical thought is forbidden and frowned upon, which is why you have faith . In reality where critical thought is kryptonite for faith based assertions, ✝️, cannot survive critical thought.
In academic circles, where (not "wear," which means something entirely different) critical thought is forbidden and frowned upon, faith in science's hubris goes unquestioned. Critical thought is utterly forbidden when it comes to the doctrines of the church of materialist atheism.
@ facts don’t care about your feelings
@@Obeytheroadrules So true
Dr. Wise talked about progressive Christianity as compromising on what the Bible says. I am an agnostic and I still have some barriers to Christianity especially regarding Biblical authority or inerrancy. I think something like a progressive Christianity might be better at answering these objections.
Is it worse to be a progressive Christian or a non-Christian who is holding out for a stronger Christianity?
You will never have all of your questions answered. I am not boasting, but I have a genius IQ. We want answers! Lol My suggestion is to just jump in and start swimming. Watching this channel is a good start. You are not here by accident, you know. You have been called. That's just the way this thing called faith works. I don't know your background, but God told me to respond to your comment. Merry Christmas. Jesus still saves.
What I would suggest, PiRobot, is to trust in the Lord Jesus and don't worry about those issues at this point. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 16:31. If you want to discover the truth you need the Holy Spirit's guidance. Then, take the Bible seriously, WHATEVER else you have been taught to think, and see where an honest asking, seeking and knocking will take you. There IS no stronger Christianity than that which God has given us. Trust Him to show it to you, for "without faith it is impossible to please God."
I think it depends on what you're looking for in Christianity.
If you want the peace and comfort that can guide you through your many years left on Earth, progressive Christianity will likely provide a sense of well-being.
If you want to accept Jesus' gift of eternal salvation, I would study The New Testament and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
You might enjoy J Warner Wallace's approach. He introduced me to the idea that I don't need an inerrant Bible I need a Bible with a true account of God's Message, and that seems to be the case.
Whether things have been added or things have been missing, if Jesus is God and He has risen, I listen!
And who is the Jeopardizer... exactly...
@@teresahunt5521 So God told you to respond to a random comment on RUclips rather than actually contacting the person himself in a way that would convince him he's real?
Don't you realise how crazy that sounds?
I’ve spent much of the last 20 years reading continental philosophy and I don’t get what he’s talking about.
This is weird, how can you make a decision to go to seminary if you are not a grounded Christian?
Hmmmm . . . I see quite a difference between those that left Evangelical Christianity for Atheism, and those, like myself, that were able to retain what was genuine in my Christian experience and deepen and broaden into a spirituality that is truly universal. Those who become atheists, tend to suppress their deepest spiritual hunger and so, when their secular humanist orientation fails to meet this yearning, they revert to the religious worldview of their childhood. When there is simply a dualistic choice between Christian faith and atheism, it is not surprising that people either abandon 'faith' when they explore the critiques and/or reconvert at some stage of life when they recognize the emptiness of a reductionist world view. What is missed is the whole, wide, rich world of spirituality that transcends culture and conditioning but can also draw on it. Also a spirituality that welcomes science, critical thinking and a willingness to live without certainty.
Just for the record, I am a child of missionaries, was an avid Christian, was engaged in full time evangelism during much of my early adult life and was entirely convinced that it was the ultimate truth. It was only while attending a fundamentalist Bible School that I finally recognized just how britttle this tradition is - how narrow, and how deeply rooted in denial. It took a few years, but I eventually reached the place in which I found that what spoke most deeply to me in my time as an Evangelical could be found and expanded in other spiritual contexts.
Is it progressive Christianity to be inclusive of my Queer neighbors and family? Is that compromising of my faith to love and include my neighbor and family in love?
Sure, love them. But don't pretend that their sin is pleasing or acceptable to God. That isn't loving God or them.
Read God's definition of love and you will see that it does not insist on its own way and does not rejoice at wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth (1 Corinthians 13:4-7). My position is that the church is inclusive in the sense that all people sin, need to hear the truth of the gospel and should have the opportunity to repent. However, the narrow gate, by definition, is not inclusive. Those who find it can no longer live according to their own ways. The function of the church is to urge people to repent and live holy lives for Christ - not to affirm or encourage us in our sinful ways.
It depends on how love is defined...
What do you mean by “be inclusive”?
@@what-about-bob while I understand your point, the issue I have here is by your definition, anything outside of a man and woman in a relationship is sinful. Why? Because the Bible is clear, as there are a handful of verses condemning anything outside of a man and woman in marriage.
What does it mean to live holy in Christ? Can a gay person be in a committed monogamous relationship with their partner and still be able to glorify God by loving their neighbor and God? If your answer is no, then what exactly does it mean to glorify God? Does it mean to be inclusive of LGBTQ people loving, and not seeing their sexuality as sinful? Does it mean advocating for a more socialist form of government so that everyone has access to better health care, resources, and support from the government? Does it mean advocating for women's rights to reproductive healthcare so they can get the care that they need?
If you think that these things are not glorifying God, or the process through which we glorify God, then how the hell do we glorify God? Again, what exactly are you talking about about? Just throwing blanket verse theology, like "love God" and "glorify God", and "repent of your sins" are meaningless unless you define them more fully and practically. God moves in the world through people, not in abstract theology we say for the sake of upholding our own theology.
I love this man much of my journey even as a Christian is similar.
I enjoyed this discussion.
This is interesting. @SeanMcDowell it would be awesome to see you talk to Tim Mahoney from Patterns of Evidence about the crisis of faith that his conversation with archaeologist Manfred Bietak produced and how eventually the "archaeological evidence" against the Exodus later was reinterpreted to be evidence that supported it.
Keep up the good work
“When we are willing to compromise the clear word of the scriptures “. But the scriptures are not clear, that is why we have thousands of denominations and apologists like You, Sean.
That reminds me of the quote by Mark Twain:
"It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."
I agree there are confusing scriptures in the Bible, but at the end of the day the question is, “What do we do with the parts that are very clear?”
Sola Scriptura apologetics fail for me. Religion is a relationship not a proposition.
I find the people who think scripture is clear generally haven't read it.
@@danielweaver3361 John 3:16 - Clear or not so clear?
@@danielweaver3361 The more I learn about scripture, the less confident I am in my conclusions. Not in the sense that I don't believe what I believe, but I'm far more accepting of contrasting opinions than I used to be.
After studying he concluded “there is no God”. I have studied, and would, for want of a better word, describe myself as an atheist, but I have not concluded that there is no God. I don’t know if there is a God, but I am not convinced by anything I have experienced, or studied that such an entity exists in any objectively obvious sense.
Did Dr wise study every religion to find God? I haven’t that’s one of the reasons I cannot be certain he does not exist.
If you are waiting to study everything, you will never arrive anywhere. You have, at best, 100 years. At some point you must recognize your finitude and make a decision - is the world fundamentally GOOD or is it bad? If it is good, then follow the logic of that position. If it is bad, follow the logic of THAT position. BUT ... be fearless in following it! Do not be distracted or allow yourself to use anything from the opposing position. It is my contention that IF YOU DO THIS HONESTLY you will come to recognize that human nature REQUIRES God. There IS no human existence outside of God. If you logically follow the "bad" option you will take your own life, as that is the only logical solution. I pray you take the position that God underlies ALL of human rational existence.
@@TheChristianAtheist Yikes! What a weird thought process. The world is neither fundamentally good or bad; most things are on a spectrum and nuanced. What is considered good and bad is subjective, situational and temporal.
Given that we have had thousands of gods throughout history, which “God” does human nature require? How would this world look any different with God or without God?
All of your premises are faulty, therefore your conclusion is not just false, but patently absurd.
If you’ve found God why don’t you get him to SHOW UP? There are billions who think they have found God, but it’s not the same God you believe in.
He's a Calvinist. Anyway , what he said about still being a Christian when he was an atheist sounds like it
You can tell this guy is a philosopher. He doesn't appear to have any particular idea what science is.
Without even hearing the rest of the narrative I am just touched at God's faithfulness. He keeps that which is his. John was his and no matter what choices and decisions countered his knowing of God God could not be changed. Could not lie could not fail. Could only keep his promise to keep John
From the book of Scripture which God used to BLOW MY MIND this year: Malachi 3:6-7: “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from my statutes and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD of hosts.
"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
I and the Father are one.”
McDowell should host a master class on being even handed.
He does!! It's watching him in action and then pursing to emulate him as necessary. Also, End the Stalemate book he co-authored with Tim😅
McDowell should take some classes in critical thinking, because he is alarmingly credulous.
@@DrKippDavis You are mighty quick to judge others b/c YOU disagree with them. THIS is the mark of the credulous person. I teach critical thinking, and you would benefit from a basic class in it, as the principle of charity dictates that really listening and understanding is ALWAYS the very first step in engaging in honest debate. Sean has disagreements with nearly ALL of his guests, but his job AS AN INTERVIEWER is to allow his guests to make their arguments and present their positions. THIS is the mark of a good interviewer. You seem to be ideologically possessed, and to desire the suppression of all viewpoints that contradict your own. I, too, was an atheist, and understand your position.
Love this interview. I first believe, then I read GOD'S word, then every fiber of my being groans for him daily.
LONG....that was so good
Would love to know how I can find this Maliki series he’s talking about
Do a RUclips search for "The Christian Atheist Malachi 136" and it should come up. Alternatively, find our podcast on any of the major podcasting links and look for episode 136 and following. We've also begun a new series called "Malachi Revisited." So far there are only two episodes in this second series. We hope to complete it in the new year!
The Christian Atheist
Basically he presents no evidence but dismisses facts and his conscience
Progressive Christianity is understanding the culture and the context in which the Bible was written. The guest speaker has failed to underdtsnd what Progressive Christianity is all about.
dimitrisiliadis4939 I really want to encourage you to leave progressive Christianity and find another way of seeking God's truth. PC is deconstructing. Think of the twin towers ... once they tumble and collapse it will be so difficult to rebuild it again using those same pieces. Or think of a rubic's cube. Deconstruction will only mess with your mind and lead you further away from Christ. Get out of it. Once you discover the truth, no counterfeit will convince you otherwise. May God shine His light on you!
@@tammy9497 Fulfil John 14:12, and we'll talk.
Stop the next John Smyth... and we'll talk.
I think that when you KNOW that Jesus is alive you find peace. We are such curious images of God, hence our brokenness, but GOD!
You can't call Lewis a trump card when I can point out multiple things that he'd disagree with you on.
I actually laughed at the "trump card" reference as well, Timothy. I do indeed disagree with Lewis on some things. He was a man like any other. If you've ever read about his personal life, he was a mess, just like all the rest of us. He knew he needed a Savior, though, and he tried his best to help others find Him.
I really think he made the point more clearly than I could, which is why I used that quote. Right or wrong, he wanted what he wrote to honor God, for which he deserves my thanks and respect. In the end, though, listen neither to Lewis, McDowell, or Wise, but to God's word. It is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path.
Curse tablets? What is that?
It was an archeological find of the curses given to the Israelites just before they entered the Promise Land. It is a very small metal piece with curses written on it. The blessing and curse event is recorded in the Bible. It was dug up at the exact location of where the blessing and curse ceremony took place.
@ thank you for this info. I guess I need to read the Bible again!
@ The group on Mount Gerizim would pronounce covenant blessings over Israel, and the group atop Mount Ebal would shout covenant curses (which the Israelites do in Joshua 23-24).
It is an embarrassing mistake made by the Associates for Biblical Research that has been absolutely lambasted by the entire Levantine archaeology community. Wise's uncritical acceptance of claims made for this illegally procured object show us clearly how woefully credulous he is.
@@DrKippDavis If you had taken the time to listen to what I have actually said on this discovery, you would know that my judgment is still suspended on it. It is clear, however, that YOU have uncritically bought, hook, line and sinker (pun intended) the unscientific dismissal of it. I am content to allow the process to take its course, whereas the critics (themselves ideologically blinded) want to shut down critical inquiry. It would be nice if you could actually be a LITTLE skeptical and not so credulous in your statements.
There are two embarrassing things about ABR: 1) the ridiculous announcement (poor judgment b/c of) 2) the employment of Gershon Galil and his bombast. Still ... however radical Galil is, he is mild in comparison to the embarrassing vitriol of Robert Cargill. I would guess you align yourself with him.
You display your own ideological bias by claiming falsely that this was illegal. The facts speak otherwise, but facts are something with which you seem willing to play fast and loose.
They won't ever find the bones of Jesus as He went back up with Flesh and Bone....as He bled out while on earth...and while IF someone found His Bones.. it would be on His return trip...IN HIS glorified Body.
God's Only Son Permits Eternal Life!
😇🙏💪
Exactly! You cannot kill life itself, except in the merely physical sense.
Sean mcdowell have you ever listened to Muhammad hijab?
One who :worships" the Bible probably knows that Jesus tells us His word is spirit, then we are told to walk in the spirit and and they have come to know that the Bible is God/Jesus, The Word.
There are millions of people with the Holy Spirit. Just like Jesus, many have Him at hand. You can handle Him, see Him and still not know Him. The Holy Spirit is a book, it is a book that speaks of Jesus. It talks of the works of Jesus/The Word through the descendants of Abraham. Then The Word was made flesh, we know Him now as Jesus.
Jesus has returned to His former glory, meaning He is again The Word of God. We should know Him now as Lord for He was given the authority over all.
The Holy Spirit is the Bible. It is the Bible or Holy Spirit that will teach us. That is why we must follow Scripture and do as that Spirit teaches.
While, especially in the O.T., we must do what we know or think we can learn to do, we must remember we cannot do it all. However, we can at least try to do as much as possible, remembering that none of this is required for Salvation. We repeat, none of what we do is required for salvation, not even feeding the hungry, or clothing the naked. These are works that beautify our salvation, they don't make it. After all Jesus died for our salvation two thousand years ago. We are too late to do so now.
One must remember that those laws were given to a nation and no one man can do them all. Just as today one may not be able to feed the hungry if they are barely feeding themselves or if they are disabled etc.. We should do what we can.
When we are instructed to put on the Holy Spirit we are told how in Deut.6:8-9. So again we do what we can, if is to write the Ten Commandments, bind them and wear them, then do that. If you are limited on writing then put on "Jesus wept.", do what you can do. To walk in the Holy Spirit is to have it upon you and what you own.
He isn't asking us to do the impossible but to do what we can. IF one is unable to make what we are told to put on, find someone who makes that garment so you can, one day wear the armour our Lord gives us as we obey Him, to protect and keep us through the trying times.May our Lord and God go with us all.
Schleman discovered Troy based on the myths
The story of Heinrich Schliemann is a great cautionary tale for atheistic archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein.
If you don’t believe Jesus is the way , the truth and the life, then you will believe anything . We have to use the word of God to be our foundation.
Amen
So he was a Saved Athiest? This is why Eterbal Security is ridiculous. Glad you came back, but don't give the unbeliever hope in their unbelief.
No disrespect, but this guest seems easily swayed and not stable.
This title is the exact language I detest in Christian circles, it encourages a blurring of the lines between politics and Christianity, and makes even Bible believing democrats feel uncomfortable listening. I wonder what it does for unbelieving democrats. If politics is your priority, feel free to ignore this comment, if the gospel is, think it through. I guess it might be challenging to serve the Lord and have a RUclips channel because most eventually go for sensational sounding title for clicks and likes.😢😢
He lost me on a "young" earth. No reality to that view.
Excuse me of one addition ... Romans 16:19 - "But I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil." This admonishes Christians to study and know the full counsel of God. Focus on "that" so you can easily recognize false doctrines that come along. Listening the Dr Wise, it appears that he went way way way off the deep end with the study of false doctrines and philosophies. What a muddy mess of intellectual garbage! Let's do all we can to keep our focus where it belongs.
Two questions for Chris
Why is it that his best doctrine analogy is a fantasy world?
If Chris found out that his wife was given a love pill that forced her to love him, would he still feel the same about her?
I wonder how many people have been led aways from faith in the biblical God by people like William Lane Craig and Hugh Ross, who reject that God created everything about 6,000 years ago?
This is our worry, too, Rob! If all we are is a carbon copy of the world's ideas and thoughts, having compromised away the real substance of Christianity and the Holy God, why choose to believe it at all? The Gospel, we are told, is a stumbling block. If there is nothing "difficult" about it, then we are probably not preaching God's word. 1 Corinthians 1:20-25: "Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." (ESV)
I don’t know anyone who has been led away from faith by them personally. I do know some who have been led away by YEC though. I hear it all the time. My point here is be careful what you say. It can backfire on you.
@@richiejourney1840 Tell us, please, of those led away from faith by a belief in YEC.
@@TheChristianAtheist Sir, you being The Christian Atheist have surely heard these testimonies have you not?
🍻🤝🍻👍🍻🤩🍻🥳🍻👍🍻🤝🍻
It should not surprise us at Chris’s maturity level, telling a brother to lose your phone number and deleting him…
In truth it’s the same character trait that Chris believes about his Calvinist god.
I respect Chris for some of his beliefs, but this response to a fellow child of God is not biblical.
This is the Hill I’m going to die on. Wise is not a bible scholar, he does not speak Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek, the languages the scriptures were originally written in. Therefore he is relying on translations and the bible being inerrant. He has no idea what Jesus said, he believes the hearsay. That is no basis to come to a life altering conclusions . For that reason I cannot go beyond 38.29, it’s pointless.
Anthony Flew had dementia. If you want to hang your hat on his belief in a god late in life you’re not going to persuade many of his questionable “conversion.”
Sorry to hear that about Flew. Denying God exists just seems plain ridiculous to me. I have had times where I didn't like that there was a God who was unhappy with me and would judge me, but I never doubted that He existed.
@ Which of the thousands of gods throughout human history do you believe in and what is the evidence for its’ existence?
@@bobloblaw4102 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Holy Bible.
@bobloblaw You should answer that same question.
@@catharsis77 Ridiculous, or unimaginable? I said the same thing. It turns out, Christianity tends to misrepresent atheism a lot, and unless you actually hear what they have to say, it’s easy to jump to conclusions.
I pity people who are born into a religious family and are compelled to believe a load of garbage. They have an excellent excuse for their ignorance. Not so an adult capable of rational thought who chooses to let superstition and folklore replace reality.
I fully agree with you, Traffic-law. I am astonished how many atheists continue to blindly and uncritically follow the myths into which they have been indoctrinated, even after they have been liberated from the dominance of hyper-rational philosophical parental and cultural superstitions. I would simply ask them as adults to make an attempt at skepticism.
Bible says Jesus claimed a deep connection to the creator of the universe, but Never that he Was the actual creator of the universe,,, let's get clear on this without extra embellishments that come into Many direct conflicts with many bible verses where Jesus absolutely states that the Father is greater than him and that his Father has deeper knowledge and wisdom..... do a search... there are many times that Jssus confirms thus.... even in John's acount of the word being God... in the original text it becomes truly coherent as meaning 'a god' as in first Son of God...
He's not "a god" but the word of God. The very power through which God the father created the universe, therefore eternal since without creation there is no creator and no creator without the word. That's why it's God himself incarnate in Jesus, the son.
It sounds like you’ve already made up your mind and are arguing from a particular worldview instead of asking a genuine question. This is dishonest and disingenuous.