I’m blown away that he (the teacher) believes Jesus’ knowledge was limited or that Jesus had his knowledge limited. I have to wonder if he is practicing some sin in his life and this is his way of finding comfort for his sin. “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV Jesus knew what the Pharisees were thinking do you not think he knew who touched him? And we can’t forget about the mustard seed. What does John 1:3 say? It says “All Things were made by him and without him was not anything made.” There are many weak in their faith that I don’t believe should be encouraged to participate in someone’s faulty thinking about the word of God. “Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.” 1 Cor 8:13 When people ask me what I think about something that is considered to be sin I remind them that what I think doesn’t matter. What does the the Bible say about the issue because if it is sin God will make it plain. If you think Jesus’ knowledge was limited then we can’t trust the Bible. We can’t trust Jesus to give us truth. We cannot serve two masters.
It would have been interesting to hear Dr. Oord develop his idea a bit more on the extent of Jesus' knowledge. The moderator chose not to pursue that rabbit. It's worth nothing that - according to what Oord writes in the book he edited, calling for the Nazarenes to fully affirm the LGBTQ+ community - charges were brought against him on the issue of Christology. He was exonerated by the board of discipline that looked into the question. Dr. Oord is on target when he speaks of the many young people who have left the Church of the Nazarene (in North America) over the LGBTQ+ issue. Right now, through conversations I've had with some in district leadership, there is a struggle to find pastors to fill the churches we have. At the same time, our denominational Seminary is finding it more and more challenging to operate in part because the steady stream of youth finishing undergrad degrees at our Nazarene universities and going on to NTS is not what it once was. Likely the reasons for that are bigger than this one issue, but the LGBTQ+ question would make the short list. Thank you to Dr. Andy Miller for posting this up. I'll look forward to watching the next installment, with Dr. Powell, presenting the conservative case.
I hope and pray this guy is a minority in the church. He differently likes loop holes so to speak. This man is like so many Christians today that believe we should twist scripture to fit our lives rather than our lives conforming to what the Bible says.
This “winsome” mentality and the Evanjelly 11th commandment of thou shalt be nice (just to have a conversation) will continue to plague the church. But I guess that is the whole ethos of the Nazarene denomination since they want to be a “big tent” denomination. This denomination became comprised decades ago when they started watering down their language on the authority of scripture within their Articles of Faith just to allow the theistic evolutionists into their “big tent”. Thus the scripture is no longer inspired, infallible, and inerrant; but is deemed to be a “plenary inspiration” and “infallible only in all things of salvation”. This is just the beginning of the downfall of the Nazarene Church because they will slowly become like the united methodist denomination. Within the next 2-3 generations, the Nazarene church will be majority liberal. Confessional Reform Doctrine is the way to go and people like Mr. Oord should be rebuked and called to repentance. Every single New Testament book, with the exception of Philemon, warns against false teachers and it would behoove the evangelical church to actually adhere to such teachings in scripture. Mr. Oord and his cohorts should be marked and avoided for they are wolves in sheep clothing.
Actually, I have a more sincere counterpoint to Oord's claims on polygamy. If we affirm LGBT+ persons, then we naturally affirm nonbinary persons. If there is a polygamous relation with a man, woman and nonbinary person, then there is no degradation of women. Even if this sounds snarky, I think that it is a sincere counterpoint and I would appreciate an answer from anyone who shares Oord's perspective.
So no hard lines drawn other than love? It seems to me the love he is referring to is eros. That is the love for sexuality. Yet the love Jesus speaks about is agape. The is the love that comes from God which He poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit (Rom 5:5). Also, he said he does not think Jesus would have hard lines about love between people. How does he explain what Jesus said about marriage between a man and a woman in Matthew 19? This kind of thinking in the COTN, and many of its US universities, is why I left the university I was in for one that was more biblically based. This is scary. And lastly, he butchers what Wesley is recorded in his own sermons as to what he believed.
I Never Knew You Ord is an abomination that calls Gods people to follow a lie. He sets himself up as superior to God. When I read Leviticus 20:13 God makes an emphatic statement about homosexual relations, in that his edict calls it an ABMONATION. I cannot find anything in scripture where His edict is rescinded. It does not matter whether hundreds of thousands of Nazarenes agree with Ord’s position, they are wrong. Here is what Leviticus 20:13 actually states: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” We can read in Mathew 7:21-23 what Jesus said about people who say they are representing virtue and are followers of Jesus at Judgement: Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ I fear the Ord, being a false teacher leads many astray to hell. This topic on Homosexuality MUST be taught from the pulpits.
If acceptence of aberrant sexual behavior is something this guy wants why doesn't he just remove himself from the Nazarene fellowship and find someplace where this is accepted instead of trying to stir the pot? Particularly troubleing is his attitude that we should adjust our beliefs and practices to conform to culture rather than conforming the internal culture of the body of Christ to the standard of Gods Word. This is the same old lie that has been around for thousands of years. Essentially taking the position that we as the created are smarter than the Creator.
Did he equate a Sin issue to learning to eat vegetables? It’s not an a yuck factor. It’s a sin factor.
I’m blown away that he (the teacher) believes Jesus’ knowledge was limited or that Jesus had his knowledge limited. I have to wonder if he is practicing some sin in his life and this is his way of finding comfort for his sin.
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
Jesus knew what the Pharisees were thinking do you not think he knew who touched him?
And we can’t forget about the mustard seed. What does John 1:3 say? It says “All Things were made by him and without him was not anything made.”
There are many weak in their faith that I don’t believe should be encouraged to participate in someone’s faulty thinking about the word of God.
“Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.” 1 Cor 8:13
When people ask me what I think about something that is considered to be sin I remind them that what I think doesn’t matter. What does the the Bible say about the issue because if it is sin God will make it plain. If you think Jesus’ knowledge was limited then we can’t trust the Bible. We can’t trust Jesus to give us truth.
We cannot serve two masters.
It would have been interesting to hear Dr. Oord develop his idea a bit more on the extent of Jesus' knowledge. The moderator chose not to pursue that rabbit. It's worth nothing that - according to what Oord writes in the book he edited, calling for the Nazarenes to fully affirm the LGBTQ+ community - charges were brought against him on the issue of Christology. He was exonerated by the board of discipline that looked into the question.
Dr. Oord is on target when he speaks of the many young people who have left the Church of the Nazarene (in North America) over the LGBTQ+ issue. Right now, through conversations I've had with some in district leadership, there is a struggle to find pastors to fill the churches we have. At the same time, our denominational Seminary is finding it more and more challenging to operate in part because the steady stream of youth finishing undergrad degrees at our Nazarene universities and going on to NTS is not what it once was. Likely the reasons for that are bigger than this one issue, but the LGBTQ+ question would make the short list.
Thank you to Dr. Andy Miller for posting this up. I'll look forward to watching the next installment, with Dr. Powell, presenting the conservative case.
I’m speechless! And that doesn’t happen often.
I hope and pray this guy is a minority in the church. He differently likes loop holes so to speak. This man is like so many Christians today that believe we should twist scripture to fit our lives rather than our lives conforming to what the Bible says.
Listening to "regressive" pastors is like listening the to the serpent in the garden. Just walk away - judgement is coming.
This “winsome” mentality and the Evanjelly 11th commandment of thou shalt be nice (just to have a conversation) will continue to plague the church. But I guess that is the whole ethos of the Nazarene denomination since they want to be a “big tent” denomination. This denomination became comprised decades ago when they started watering down their language on the authority of scripture within their Articles of Faith just to allow the theistic evolutionists into their “big tent”. Thus the scripture is no longer inspired, infallible, and inerrant; but is deemed to be a “plenary inspiration” and “infallible only in all things of salvation”. This is just the beginning of the downfall of the Nazarene Church because they will slowly become like the united methodist denomination. Within the next 2-3 generations, the Nazarene church will be majority liberal. Confessional Reform Doctrine is the way to go and people like Mr. Oord should be rebuked and called to repentance. Every single New Testament book, with the exception of Philemon, warns against false teachers and it would behoove the evangelical church to actually adhere to such teachings in scripture. Mr. Oord and his cohorts should be marked and avoided for they are wolves in sheep clothing.
11:28 holiness is overcoming the attraction all together
Lgbtq is not biblical
I would like a correction. Oord is not an active elder in the Church Of The Nazarene
When did he surrender his credentials or when were they taken?
Neither, inactive.
Actually, I have a more sincere counterpoint to Oord's claims on polygamy.
If we affirm LGBT+ persons, then we naturally affirm nonbinary persons.
If there is a polygamous relation with a man, woman and nonbinary person, then there is no degradation of women.
Even if this sounds snarky, I think that it is a sincere counterpoint and I would appreciate an answer from anyone who shares Oord's perspective.
Younger people do not think like Dr. Oord. Especially those who want to be leaders in the church.
I'm running back to the church of the Nazarene.
So no hard lines drawn other than love? It seems to me the love he is referring to is eros. That is the love for sexuality. Yet the love Jesus speaks about is agape. The is the love that comes from God which He poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit (Rom 5:5). Also, he said he does not think Jesus would have hard lines about love between people. How does he explain what Jesus said about marriage between a man and a woman in Matthew 19? This kind of thinking in the COTN, and many of its US universities, is why I left the university I was in for one that was more biblically based. This is scary. And lastly, he butchers what Wesley is recorded in his own sermons as to what he believed.
I Never Knew You
Ord is an abomination that calls Gods people to follow a lie. He sets himself up as superior to God.
When I read Leviticus 20:13 God makes an emphatic statement about homosexual relations, in that his edict calls it an ABMONATION. I cannot find anything in scripture where His edict is rescinded. It does not matter whether hundreds of thousands of Nazarenes agree with Ord’s position, they are wrong.
Here is what Leviticus 20:13 actually states: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
We can read in Mathew 7:21-23 what Jesus said about people who say they are representing virtue and are followers of Jesus at Judgement: Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
I fear the Ord, being a false teacher leads many astray to hell.
This topic on Homosexuality MUST be taught from the pulpits.
If acceptence of aberrant sexual behavior is something this guy wants why doesn't he just remove himself from the Nazarene fellowship and find someplace where this is accepted instead of trying to stir the pot? Particularly troubleing is his attitude that we should adjust our beliefs and practices to conform to culture rather than conforming the internal culture of the body of Christ to the standard of Gods Word. This is the same old lie that has been around for thousands of years. Essentially taking the position that we as the created are smarter than the Creator.
Oh my. This guy is off the rails.
What issues?