Is Squirt a Good Chain Lube? | Squirt Wear Test
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Eddie tests Squirt bicycle chain lubricant using the friction testing machine - and gets some surprising results. He also tests chain stiffness and drag.
This video was not sponsored by any of the brands mentioned in the video, all opinions are our own.
This video should be considered for entertainment purposes only, any action you take based on the content of this video is strictly "at your own risk".
#simplymountainbiking #SMB #mountainbiking
Hi Eddie👋🏼 you may remember me, I was one of your viewers who questioned your testing methods on Squirt (in it’s wet state). Thank you so much for revisiting the friction test and even developing another test method to check Squirt’s effectiveness👍🏼 You’re obviously a really professional guy and I’m impressed that you responded to the constructive criticism so well and we actually all gained even MORE knowledge of the pros and cons of Squirt.🙂
I switched to Squirt simply to give it a try as I had heard good things about it, but this latest data you’ve provided makes me think I should switch back to Muc-off Dry.
Thanks again for your thorough testing. Chapeau!😃
Yep - I remember you! Thanks for your comments - I really appreciate them! -Eddie
I got Muc-off dry. Cleaned, de-greased, gave it half an hour in 120 watt ultrasonic. Then applied. It's a whole new chain. I set out to find a new lube, found that vid, and bought. Thank you so much for the scientific approach!!!
Full disclosure: I'm a Squirt fan and wax-based chain lube fan in general.
I don't think the friction machine test or the stiff-chain test are fair to a dry, wax lube. I don't think they come close to representing what happens in a chain where the links trap the wax inside to a certain extent and keep the wax in place and see reciprocating motion.
The wear-scar test is obviously going to scrape the wax off leaving metal to metal contact. Anyone using a wax lube will tell you the chain is stiff for a few hundred meters of pedalling and then loosens up.
The companies that test on chains (I think there have been two high-profile (for the bike industry anyway) tests done by Friction Facts and another guy) have very good results with wax lubes.
I'm not saying your wrong about wax lubes vis-a-vis the tests you did, I am saying you're using tests that don't represent what happens in a chain. In essence you're asking the wrong questions so the answers you're getting don't matter.
I should add, for chain longevity, the best lube is an oil bath of clean oil in a sealed environment (think timing chain in an engine). We run our chains in the open where they're subject to contamination and use them in a sport where efficiency and weight matter. This is an environment where wax wins.
Valid points. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking I am on Squirt for a year and on the one hand I like that chain does not squeak when it gets dirt during gravel riding but on the other hand the chain wore out quite fast: 0.5 after 600 km with application of Squirt every 100km the day before ride. Recently I have switched to Muc-Off dry and I will observe how it goes. Can you tell what's the force applied during your rub test ?
Thanks for sharing your experience. For the wear test, I only used one of the weights that were provided with the friction testing kit. It weighs a little over a pound. The set came with at least 6 of them! The force applied is more than a pound, because leverage is applied - but I never measured it at the wheel. I'm certain it's less than what we can apply via the pedal on our bikes though! -Eddie
I was watching this guy thinking wtf he is doing. Has a lot of stuff spend a looooooooooot of money on everything yet doesn't even realize core concept
I kind of agree with you.
Eddie, although your test in the previous video is very professional and I admire it, I think we can't take it as the final answer to which bike lube is the best, especially when comparing wax based lubes and others because they don't work the same. Indeed, I think the test misses a very important part : durability of lubrification.
I can report my experience :
I used Muc-Off dry lube during a long time, with great maintenance (perfectly degreasing, cleaning and drying the chain before applying the lube and then wipe off the excess) approximately every 250km. It is true that during the first kilometers after maintenance the drivetrain was perfectly silent and smooth, but, although i was riding in perfect dry conditions, the lubrification did not last long : it was a bit noisy at 150km after the maintenance, and more noisy at 250km. The drivetrain stayed pretty clean.
I started to compare bike lubes and wanted to try Squirt lube which looked to have convinced so many bike riders whatever their discipline. I applied it to my drivetrain exactly as advised by the brand. After the first ride I noticed the chain was cleaner than with the Muc-Off dry lube, and during the ride the lubrification looked great : perfect silence. After a lot of rides in dry conditions using the Squirt lube, I could tell that the drivetrain stays really (almost perfectly) silent and smooth for about 350-400km after application ! And I think a new application of Squirt lube is really necessary at approximately 500km after the last one (in dry conditions) ! All that without needing to degrease the chain between applications so saving a lot of time and energy during maintenance. The drivetrain stays a lot cleaner in general, even than with the Muc-Off dry lube.
So, to me, it was clear that the Squirt lube was the best for me !
That great lubrification durability and performance I report from the Squirt is what makes me doubt about how representative is your test of lube's performances in riding conditions. For having tried both Muc-Off dry lube and Squirt lube in riding conditions, and then found out that the lubrification of the Squirt was more than 2x more durable than Muc-Off's one in my case.
About Squirt lube, I have to add two things. I use this lube as Squirt advises it, with two exceptions.
First one, is that Squirt says to never degrease the drivetrain again once you applied the Squirt lube for the first time, but only to wipe off the chain with a dry cloth in order to remove a bit of old and not super clean wax between applications. Well, in my case, I do that about 300km after the last application, but, 300km after that, I clean the drivetrain with bike cleaner (less powerful than drivetrain degreaser) and brushes before to rince it and dry it, and then I reapply Squirt lube. That allows the drivetrain to be perfectly clean before one application on two. Squirt lube does not get your drivetrain dirty (a lot less than other more classic lubricants) but if you want it to be always almost perfectly clean, I don't see what is bad in totally cleaning it from time to time, whatever it is with bike cleaner, dishwashing liquid, or even degreaser. You have well done it before applying for the first time Squirt lube, so...
Second one, is that Squirt says to apply the lube, no wiping off the excess and then wait about a night for the lube to dry before riding. I added one step which to me is really important : once the lube is dry after the night, I wipe off the dry excess of lube from the drivetrain in order to catch less dirt and so to keep the lubrification efficient longer. Also, it is true that after the night, the chain is very not smooth and the chain links struggle to glide, and making the chain turn while wipping off excess ends this issue : once I am done wipping off excess, the chain is as smooth as any other.
Some riders using Squirt complain about "linters" (excess of wax) in the derailleur pulleys, and I believe this is what happens if you don't wipe off the dry excess of lube. I never had this, my drivetrain stays really clean, and as said earlier, the performance and durability of the lubrification is more than great; so I believe this is what we should do, to wipe off dry excess of Squirt lube before first ride after application.
Finally! Someone doing project farm style stuff with bikes!!!! Keep doing these!!!!!
Thanks! Will do! -Eddie
I love project farm too 😁
I know right!!!
@@SimplyMountainBiking I submitted and idea to project farm a while ago about comparing expensive bike grease to marine grease etc. to see if there is any really difference. It would be cool if you compared different bike grease and 'regular' greases.
@@mushieslushie Yeah, like resistence on well-packed cup and cone (most shimano wheel hubs) bearings with shimano special bearing grease, some high grade grease from a DIY/hardware store - like the red stuff in the standard plastic grease tube which says Made in USA on it with boats and tractors on the tube, and a generic cheap grease. This would be highly interesting, also if wear could somehow be tested... but such test could be highly "wearing"
Great video ! But I think you ignored the main benefit of dry wax: It stays clean and free of contamination for way longer.
Yes, a low viscosity wet lube might have lower friction when just applied and clean, the question is for how long? Bicycle chains are open systems and operate under direct contact with contamination. In just a matter of minutes riding under real world conditions the wet lube will be contaminated with abrasive dust particles and I can guarantee you that the friction will not be as low.
Dry lubricants such as wax on the other hand, provide a physical barrier that prevents contamination from getting inside the chain rollers, so they provide a much more uniform performance under all conditions, not only when recently applied.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
in mtb with shimano sil-tec chain and squirt wax it gives me 8,000km before reaching 0.75mm of wear
@@martinchebaia Pretty good numbers, best I've done with drip lube is about 6,000KM, hoping to extend that now that I'm using molten wax.
@@SergioGarcian_n
I have tried several types of chains but I have only achieved these results with those that have sil-tec technology
If, as Simply Mountain Biking argues, the wax lubricant gets squeezed out of the rollers while riding and, unlike a liquid lubricant, is not replaced, then it will not provide protection. Resistance to contamination is not a benefit if the lubricant is no longer present!
I am using Squirt on all my bikes since 2014. My Dura Ace 9000 transmission still has the originals pulley wheels, cassete sprockets and chain rings after 35000 kms wirh no signs of wear. My KMCs chains lasts 8000 kms until 0.5% chain streching on road and 2500 kms on the dirt. I really don't care about .2 pounds of chain drag compared to oil based lubes. The longevity of the parts worth it. Nice video and keep the good work!
Thank you! -Eddie
Drag is going to be directly proportional to friction which is proportional to wear. Another lube would have given you greater component life. Living in a dry area, I also feel like my components last so long that I only change chains every two years just because I'm tired of looking at the old one.
Using kmc chain with dura ace. Freaking masochists with that shit kmc
I used MucOff Dry on my MTB (KMC chain) and got 2000km before the chain was cooked - as yes regular cleans etc. Switched to Squirt and definately a big improvement in chain noise reduction and less need to top up.. also qith Squirt you layer up the chain over time and while it may look "messy" I dont care. I want prolonged drivetrain life!
How do you apply it? And how did you clean the chain before using it and in between uses?
Enjoyed the video, but I do believe there is a flaw with the friction test vs real world. The friction test you perform is based on two surfaces grinding away at each other constantly which allows the wax based lubricant to melt and displace from the wearing surface effectively leaving the surface in a dry unlubricated state. In the real world the drive train has a wear cycle where the lubricant on the chain is 'heated' by friction at the cassette, jockey wheels and chain rings but allowed to effectively cool in between these points allowing the lubricant to not melt and therefore not displace.
Most lubricant testings that have been performed are on rigs that mimic the usage of a chain in real world conditions (generally only for single speed); these put squirt right up there as being one of the top lubricants for longevity next to wax lubes. I think this video and the previous testing proves one thing and that is that lubricants have specific use cases, there is no best lubricant for a bicycle chain, there is just a better lubricant for the conditions/distance you are riding and the frequency of your chain cleaning and re-lubricating regime, this is why companies like muc off make different lubricants for different conditions.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
Nice testing! I am still gonna use Squirt lube because of how clean my chain stays, 0 to almost no contamination of your brake disc when washing your bike and if something happens on the ride you can touch your chain without getting grease everywhere.
I think I've read this comment the most; "My chain is cleaner." -Eddie
Soaking a rag with motor oil (any engine oil will do) and pulling the chain through it is all I do.
That's it.
Nothing else.
Repeat every week on rainy conditions and every month on dry conditions.
No special expensive chain oil, chain wax and no degreaser or anything else needed.
Motor oil has everything needed, it works not only as a lubricant but also as a detergent and rust inhibitor, it has anti wear components, too. In winter it's thin enough and in summer thick enough due to its viscostiy improvers it comes with when it is a multigrade oil which every motor oil nowadays is.
Like I said, everything ever needed is already in motor oil included.
There is no cheaper and more effective way to take care of your bicycle chain.
If you wipe off excess oil your chain stays clean. Oil has a very high ability to crawl everywhere, wiping off the surface causes no problem to the lubrication as the oil finds its way to the places where it is needed. So even a dry wiped chain is still lubricated inside and the oil stays there as long as it is not washed out.
A dirty chain is a chain not wiped off properly and was too oily.
Hey - it's better than not doing anything! -Eddie
Great tests, nice job, thanks for your excellent video!
2 things though...Heat and dirt.
1. Your friction testing machine creates enough heat to melt away wax lubes...while a real bike chain being used does not. So by including heat at this level, your test is not relevant to the reality of how bike chains work in the real world.
2. You tested clean chains. No chains in the real world are clean. The main benefit of wax lubes is that they work like a mud guard to keep dirt out. They also shed over time, taking dirt away with them. By contrast, oil based lubes capture, or at least allow dirt to remain on the chain, and create a grinding compound. So absent dirt, your test is not relevant to how bike chains are used in the real world.
Ive used both oil and wax lubes before. I have no dog in this fight. But its only fair to make the tests actually test under real world use conditions.
Thanks again for your excellent video. Please consider redoing the tests accurately.
Hmm - you really made me wonder how much heat is created in a chain when pedaling... -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Its a good question to ask. I can put out a solid 500 watts for a minute. At the end of that, my chain is absolutely cool, even with petroleum based lube.
So id say you need to tune your test to the amount of power a normal person can put out continuously. Id guess around 200 watts or so for a fit person.
Drop the heat to that level of friction and watch the paraffin "lube" beat every other one, just as they do on every semi scientific test.
Cheers, friend!
@@marcalvarez4890 wouldnt you need to run the test for hours at 200 watts so sort introduce another hard variable (doesnt squirt state to re apply after about 6 hours (i my self hate squirt never got it not to gunk up was always a black mess))
Considering nobody can liquefy a candle by jumping on it, considering all the transmission act as a cooling system, and considering a solid lub can't escape from a chain inner roller, I don't see any friction realistic test except to rebuild a fake bike transmission around your motor, and spray some sand and water on the rotating chain. Perhaps simulate 300km like this with 3 lubes, and measure the chain length and the lateral flex before and after. Challenging 😄
@@simedinson984 black mess means your chain was not cleaned properly before install
I've used regular paraffin wax on my chains over the last few years and one thing I like about was is it's ability to shed wet mud and water. The downside to wax is that you really have to thoroughly clean the chain when are ready to soak the chain. I usually have 5 chains that I rotate during the year and when I get down to the last one i throw the other 4 in an ultrasonic cleaner for a while before moving them over to my mini crock pot that always has the wax in it.
I've also started using Silca's Super Secret chain lube (the stuff in the bottle) and while I do like it, you still need to thoroughly chain that chain first and wait 24 hours after applying it. It makes the drivetrain super quiet.
Having said all that, the I've never gotten either wax to last long enough to finish a backpacking trip, so if I'm going on one, I'll usually strip a chain and bring along an oil based lube rather than bring along a 2nd chain. A small bottle of lube is way lighter and takes up less space.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
I went on a multi day trip with a waxed chain. After 450k it got noisy (normally I rewax after 200). I have taken a bottle with the Oz cycle recipe of wax in IPA. Reapply every 100k. Not perfect but the price I am willing to pay for a clean drive train. BTW: nice channel, directly subscribed.
I used to have experience relatively short intervals between rewaxing, but a couple of years ago I started increasing the temperature of the bath (to 230-250ºF) and have had much better longevity since. I’ve also increased the proportion of PTFE in the bath. It all seems to help.
I've been using Squirt for a couple of years now and get about 3000kms more out of the chain compared to an oil lubricant 🤔
So interesting that anecdotes on wax go both ways... -Eddie
I got 13000 km out of the chain using Squirt, I don't think that oil would give me nearly the same results.
@@SimplyMountainBiking I'm getting around 9000kms out of the chain and that's riding in all types of weather and around 100000m of vert.
Converted MTB and roadies all to squirt after use on my race bike… Got tired of dipping my chain in a wax bath. I apply a light coat every 100-200km. On a new chain I find after several applications get layered the subjective chain noise and shift quality is substantially less and remains for the life of the chain. Sand and grit never seem to build up between links, black wax residue is easily wiped off. 12,000+km on 4 chains all weather. I’ll never be going back to oil lube. 💁♂️
I also have used squirt for the last few years on my road bike. It seems to work really well but I still use WD40 wet lube on my beater/commuter.
I am kind of wanting to try another dry lube but dread the dirty drive train. I figure in the real world the oil based products would attract more dirt and eventually add wear.
I use Squirt for one reason. It keeps the chain quiet. I've found that a fresh coat is as silent as a brand new chain. I really don't care about wear since I just buy the cheapest brand name chain I can find and replace it often. But now I know what to buy if I ever decide to switch it up, or if I want to extent the life of a fancy chain.
That's an interesting perspective! -Eddie
There is a major flaw with testing chain lubricants like this. Bicycle chains are not subjected to this kind of force or friction heat, and as such, the chain lubricates in this test are not formulated for such protection.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
I thought the advantage of wax based lubricates, they don't attract dirt and grit which will keep the chain cleaner.
The heat in this test is indeed problematic. But the pressure inside a chain is comparable, if not higher. Estimate you push 20kgf on the pedal, that gets multiplied a factor of say three. Therefore we have 600 Newtons in the chain easily. Let's presume the bearing diameter in the chain is 5mm and the width is 2mm. Gives us 10 square millimeters. 600N over 10mm² is 60N/mm², or 60Mpa or 8700psi. That is at the top any lubricant can handle.
The first thing I notice using squirt is metallic smell on the chain ring after each ride. its an indication of metal to metal rubbing. I have since move away from squirt to rock and roll extreme for both MTB and Road.
That's an interesting observation. Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
Oh seems you doing original observations, problem that they are worthless.
Thoroughly enjoyed both chain lube test videos. Appreciate the time and ingenuity that goes into making these tests. Subscribed.
Thank you! -Eddie
I think one problem with your test is the lack of dirt. Normaly oil collect dirt and also bring it into the chain. Many say that this is what wears the chain down the most. Here is the real benefit of any wax. The dirt stay outside. Real world test and experience seem to proof that wax even squirt make the chain last longer than oil.
Thank you for the feedback. -Eddie
that simple weight pull test results is so consistent. that means it's a great method!
Totally agree! -Eddie
I love the friction test. Very Project Farm-ish.
I have been happily using Squirt for a couple years now, and have found that applying it after cleaning while the chain is still wet seems to allow more thorough penetration and longer intervals allowed between reapplication.
HOWEVER I've simply been brand loyal to what seems to work well for me. I watched this (and the first video) with an open mind... and just ordered muc-off dry to try on my new cassette and chain.
My home trail is quite sandy and dusty, so wet lubes are not an option.
Let me know how it goes! I'm finding that Muc Off does pick up some dirt - but it cleans off real easy and re-applies real easy.
Even with wax-based lubricants, I can't go more than 5 or so rides without at least a quick clean of my chain. Muc Off comes off much easier than wax for me.
-Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking yes exatly. The other Thing i noticed is that ITS quieter Then squirtlube. So quirt is good for MTB but in daily City Rides i go MUC Off C3👍
As stated here, most people get way more miles/km out of the drivetrain. I get the same comments from customers (working as a full time race/mtb mechanic) once they use wax they never go back to oil based lubricants. (Always very messy too)
Thanks for sharing - interestingly, though, a few others have shared the opposite anecdote. Curious! -Eddie
Excelent information here. I too have used Squirt lube and heard that many cyclist where happy using it. But in the end I was not very impressed. Now I am using Finish Line dry with the proper drying time and it seems to work nicely. It doesn't pick up sand or dust from the road and seems to perform well without many drag.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
The wax trend is absolutely bonkers to me.
I know, right? I think "trend" hits the nail on the head. -Eddie
It’s more important how those lubricants performs after tens / hundreds of miles. When they will be partially worn out and contaminated with sand or dust.
Thank you for your comment. -Eddie
I've used this chain lube for some years now. Works fine, you just have to wipe the chain and add some frequently.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
This test says nothing. In real life a waxed chain lasts longer than a oiled chain as well as other drivetrain components. Mostly because it doesn't form grinding paste.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking After reading my comment again I want to clarify. The test is great for measuring lubricity, but maybe not so much for gauging chain wear. That's all I was saying. 👍
The whole point of fluid lubricants, such as oil, is that they displace contaminants from the roller pin assembly. So there will be no "grinding paste". Wax, being a solid, cannot do that. Which is just one of the many reasons wax is not used for industrial roller chain lubrication.
Squirt has a percentage of oil in it to help penetration but it struggles to get inside the rollers without heat. The oil is causing the "stickiness" but by using the wax immersion method (Molten SpeedWax), you can eliminate the stickiness. Unfortunately your friction test is only testing film strength so it's a given that oil-based lubes with outperform the rest.
The test does not reflect real-world riding conditions. Think of a better test every 1000 miles (your chain replacement rate with oil-based grinding paste inside the rollers) and you will eventually find that wax is superior.
- - 6k miles on my chain and still
Thank you for sharing.
I do not think an oil additive is causing stickiness in Squirt. I recreated the same stickiness using plain paraffin in the bike shop. Paraffin wax is made out of petroleum - and you can find many places where it is used precisely because of it's sticky properties (e.g., waxing surfboards).
I do not doubt that a wax/teflon mix does pretty well on a road bike that is mostly subjected to wind-blown or tire-flung dry particles.
I've been considering trying molten speed wax (or a home-brew of high grade paraffin and teflon) in mountain biking - just out of curiosity.
I will admit that I'm biased in that I don't think it will perform well in muddy, wet, and extremely dirty conditions and will still require frequent chain cleaning. I typically clean my chain every 3 rides during the wetter months. I don't want to deal with wax every 3 rides, even if it means simply using an ultrasonic bath and wax dip.
In the end, a 12spd chain for my bike only costs around $60. I think I'd rather clean my chain frequently for pedaling efficiency, and just replace it every 1k. That's just my preference.
-Eddie
Great video Eddie. The issue I’ve been having with Squirt is that it seems to stay tacky for a very long time. Another dry lube I’ve used is TruTension all weather which I didn’t have this problem.
Yes, I agree it stays tacky - even after 18 months hanging in my garage - my test length is still sticky to the touch! -Eddie
I always thought waxes are no good for chains. FInally a test proving this. Simple logic dictates that if they were so good then all of the pro tour teams would be using wax instead of a lovely chain lube called Morgan Blue
Yep. -Eddie
My response to all this because I switched to Squirt and found it really good. I feel some kind of lube regularly is better than no lube and waiting until the chain is noisy and rusty before lube is applied. the lube needs to be bike lube and not something from the cupboard or 10-30 motor oil or WD-40, which is used to clean bores of an Army M1A1 tank.
Yeah. Regular maintenance and just about any lube is good. -Eddie
Great vid. I have used ProLink Gold for past 20 years and have recently changed to Squirt after many friends recommended it. Of course, its nice to have a clean drive chain. Noise, smoothness (subjective, I know) seem the same as ProLink. BUT, I notice that Squirt slows rear gear changes ever to slightly. Its as if its stick a little requiring the RD spring/cable to work just a little harder to change up/down. Unsure if this translates to a loss of watts, but it is percepitble.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
did you clean of the chain thoroughly before using squirt ?
It also adds a clump of material on to the gears and it makes everything work worse. The clumps of "lubricant" were so bad that it was hitting the cage when the idling cogs were spinning making my drivetrain run super slow. I'll try the muc off dry, and then I'm just going to regular wet lube, and drying off as much excess as I can.
Eddie, can you test Squirt’s e-bike chain wax? It has high-pressure additives added and claims “Near zero friction in all conditions”. Love your content. Thanks for sharing.
Great suggestion! I'll add it to the list of lubes to try for a viewer's choice video. Thanks! -Eddie
As someone who is a scientist and mountain biker I love this stuff. Great content and channel 👊🏻
Glad you enjoy it! -Eddie
I use squirt lube for 2 years and is the best! I put a new chain last year and has 600km on it and more than 300 km on hard climbs and it has no wear on it. I just love this lube and i will not change it for nothing. With normal chain oil i have to replace the chain after 800-1000 km even if i clean the chain after every run.
Then you’re doing something very wrong. You should get 3 - 5000 km on a chain easily.
I just swapped the chain on my road bike (SRAM flat top) because it had reached .5 wear. I had it on the bike for ~4200km and always used just whatever random lube I had on hand (muc off, finish line, etc.)
Thanks for sharing. -Eddie
Have you considered taking some of the top lubes, pouring a handful of dust (basically milled quartz!) into it and seeing how it affects things? THAT is how any WET lube really behaves after you ride for 100 meters in dusty conditions ;)
Yes - many people ride in dusty conditions. Some ride in wet/humid conditions (me). Others ride in sandy conditions, etc. My hope is that people take the tests that I've done into consideration and then apply it to their real world experience to decide what's best for them. :) -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking well... aren't you interested yourself in performing such a test? That's what I'd personally do *first thing* if I got my hands on any wear testing rig. Data on lubricant testing is abundant, data on *contaminated* lubricant testing is very rare.
As a wax-based lube, I think it makes sense that the wax on the surface of the lube will be got ripped off after a few spins. So it is not very surprising to see the result: it is close to not use lube at all. Still, since wax actually stays inside the nodes of the chain, I think this can make a great difference.
Anyways, I think this is THE most comprehensive chain lube test I have seen, good job.
I am running squirt for my m9100 chain, so far so good. At least it does keep the chain very clean compared to wet lube. (I live near tropical area and it rains all the time)
I swear that my chain wear is unobservable after I used squirt for a couple of hundred kms. Maybe it makes a difference that the tool just dan shrug off the wax from the wheel, while in the chain it is enclosed tightly in small spaces.
In the end I don't want to use oil anymore to lube my chains.
I don't see how it can't get pushed out and not be able to flow back in... -Eddie
@@RelakS__ I do find it very difficult to get squirt into the chain node of 12sp chains. The rollers are so tightly fitted that lube like squirt can have a very difficult time trying to get into the rollers. But I do find it is much easier for 11sp and 10sp chains like 11sp ultegra and 10sp tiagra. The gap between the chain rollers and links are wide enough for the lube to flow into it.
Still, I evetually went for silca's wax lube. Expensive and worth it for 12sp chains.
@@SimplyMountainBiking After drying out, squirt is basically wax and no more, no additional material like teflon powders or whatsoever. So I don't feel like it can 'flow' anymore after the water in the lube vaporize. Still, according to zerofrictioncycling's tset, the main problem about squirt is that it has huge initial application problem (hard to get the lube into the rollers).
Hey Eddie said he didn't love his teddy....
Eddy bro - have you ever ridden a bike outside in dust,mud,slime,rain etc?Just cool, hot dust will do.For about two to three hours or how some mtb transalp champions do for about 4-5 hours in actual mtb transalp conditions and be the winners after seven days average 4-5 hours a day and EXTREMELY HAPPY WITH THEIR CHAINS PERFORMANCE?Transalp MTB Race winners four years in a row?
You seriously need to get a good wax film on your chain so that it can really protect and lube your chain.Give it a chance to perform!
A lab does not do it,Ed. Just like an Amsterdam doll does not do it,bro!
Get out there,ride a few hours,do not clean the chain,brush off,lube again,ride again.Repeat.Guaranteed that with a thorough real test on a real trail you will get real results,as shared by MTB World Champs and millions of normal happy guys worldwide.
Same as having the good stuff as opposed to a laboratory designed Amsterdam doll .
Try it Eddie- you will like it much better.Do it outside!
Thanks for your feedback.
Your findings are interesting, wish I had numbers from the other test as well. What I can tell you is this: I have used this lube on road, mtn and fatbikes for 13 years. what I find is that my drivetrain is lasting longer than some of the other lubes I've used in the past. In fact tried this one winter on my fatbike, with the existing drivetrain and never cleaned the drivetrain until the following spring. I live in Maine, so lots of snow, lots of salt on the roads in the winter months( I ride roads to trails in the winter months) and had very good luck. One thing that is different is that as a mechanic/shop owner, I always put lube on the bushings in the chain only. I've NEVER had stiff links in a chain regardless of which bike I'm using. I guess what I'm saying is that I like Squirt, and have lots of years os usage and many customers. But then again, that's one of the reasons that we have so many options out there.Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for sharing your experience! -Eddie
Chain lube should NOT use friction tester / Look up Zerofriction testing
ZFC is a distributor of MSW and employed by a lube manufacturer. I'm just a dude in my garage. -Eddie
ruclips.net/video/7YxaMRSxilY/видео.html
Finally - some empirical testing to confirm my doubts about Squirt. I was NOT happy with it on my chains and it was useless trying a chain cleaner and degreaser to get it off. These days, I avoid it and advise my friends not to use Squirt. I would really rather use Boeshield T-9 or Weldtite's TF2 all-weather lube on my chains. Thank you for the excellent content!
It's interesting to me how many people get great results - and others share poor results. My thought is that it's likely a very good chain lube to use in very dusty and dry areas with a lot of airborne fine particulate. Where I live - it's humid with loamy or clay soils. For me - I want to use something that's easy to clean off and provides the best wear protection. In my opinion, Squirt does neither of those well. -Eddie
Weldtite all weather doesn't get much attention, but it's hugely popular with mechanics and pros, and cheap. I use it on my commuter ebike & it's very effective. It's also sold by big stores like decathlon & Halfords under their own brand name, they shift tons too. Never see it mentioned much though, which is odd really.
Thanks for the review! In your last big review you said that your first choice would be the Muc Off Dry Lube which is also a wax, if I'm right?
I saw this comment this morning and ran out to the bike shop to look at the bottle. The bottle says nothing about being wax-based. I went to the REI website, where I bought it, and it says; "PTFE-based" - but then, I went to the Muc-Off site where it says; "wax based formula." I certainly believe the Muc-Off site. Mind blown. So curious that two wax - based lubricants could perform so differently! -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Yes, it's quite interesting! I'm using Squirt right now but next bottle will be definitely Muc-Off Dry Lube.
Have a great day and thanks for your work!
Watching your videos, so thorough. Thanks for doing them.
Glad you like them! -Eddie
I think a really good way to test how long a lube keeps the chain quiet before it gets squeaky and needs reapplying is by using a E bike. also this doesn't generate as much heat as your friction test and is more accurate. I want to find a lube that lasts the longest, stays clean, and silent.
Great qualities for a lube to have. -Eddie
Thanks for testing wax. While I don't doubt your wear test, I'm convinced it must be superior over longer periods of time. I've had a few waxed chains outlast others by hundreds of hours of riding, so something must be going on.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
For me it's all about the cleanliness of the lube during real use, even if it's not the most efficient. I appreciate the testing, thank you for putting the work.
I like Squirt, Cerabike (same thing just from Spain) or Inmersion waxing because they "seal" the rollers to outside debris. And that's what makes a long lasting chain, like others have already tested. And that's what i'm going for with my bikes, not ultimate performance.
I tend to think that the .2 lbs (90gf) would be reduced in less than a 2km ride, but i see how that would skew the testing. I dont think any lube could make that big of a difference in drivetrain efficiency (10%)
Thanks for your comment! -Eddie
After getting sucked into all the hype & drama surrounding bicycle chain lubes, I've decided to go the cheap route.
1) Simple Green to degrease
2) Champion Lithium Chain Lube (Water Proof)
3) Super Tech Bar & Chain Oil (Heavy Duty)
4) Enclosed chain cleaning gizmo so I don't have to remove my chain every time.
Everything purchased at Walmart, including my Huffy Shimano 18 speed MTB. Why spend alot on designer chain ube for a a Walmart bike??
Seriously can't go wrong with this. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking I found out the Champion Lithium Motorcycle Chain Lube goes on liquid and dries into a gooey solid, kinda like wax. But you can see it & it looks messy. So I talked to the bicycle assembler at Walmart where I bought my MTB. He recommended WD40 Silicon spray & WD40 Dry Lube with Teflon!! That's what he used on his own bike. Walmart also sells their own off brand version of Silicon Lube spray at half the price of WD40. So that's what I'm using now. I'll go broke using these designer bike lubes that are too much for my Walmart bike which I adore. I love BOTH of my Walmart MTB's. 24inch & 26inch. I'm spending my money on bike accessories, which adds up quickly!!
Doesn't chain under tension load behave differently with the medium of lubes?
One would think? -Eddie
Great video! Thanks for all your work in creating these videos! I hope to see Finish Line dry and wet lubes as well as Muc-Off wet lube in future videos. Thanks again!
Great suggestion! -Eddie
I mean a lot of road cycling companies have done tests with wax lubes, and often see a benefit in terms of chain life and watts. A better way to test would be to have 2 power meters one on the cranks and one on the wheel. This is how they usually test efficiency of chain lubes. I get that's probably not easy or affordable to reproduce. Also waxing a chain usually means cleaning the chain thoroughly with solvents and then submerging it entire in hot wax.
Yeah - I'm thinking for road, wax might be good. -Eddie
Well... "Protection test" with ultracleanclean chain. The main issue is the road dirt that wet lubricants attract very very well. What would happen if you add sand to the oil lubricant?
I had a viscosity test lined up for the lube test - but didn't run it. You can expect that high viscosity lubricants are more sticky and will collect more grit. The lower viscosity ones (e.g., Purple Extreme) collect very little grit. The dry lubes (Muc Off, White Lightning, etc.) all would perform about the same as wax. -Eddie
Wax based doesn't 'stick' as good. Then you got hot melt chain dipping? Life is precious spending so much time doing that. I'm not OCD about 'clean chain' while riding, I regularly clean chain when it starts looking a little funky, then wet lube it. I use the OG & ol' school of lubes ... Tri-flow!
Haha - yes. I'm not going through all that faff to extend the life of a chain I paid 60 bucks for... -Eddie
An advantage of traditional oils like TriFlow is you can also use them on your derailleurs, etc, as well as round the house. If the oil you use can also be purchased in gallon containers that's a pretty sure sign it's good, as shops, race teams & bike builders will be bulk buying. The stuff I get is formulated for wet UK conditions, costs peanuts, & many, many pros & mechanics use it. It's similar to TriFlow but a bit thicker.
I love this testing. Hope to see more.
More on the way! - Eddie
I appreciate the time and effort you put into these tests. In typical fashion I bought something before looking at in depth reviews like these and scooped up a bottle of squirt.
The results about squirt in the wet test are curious for me because my thinking is, I can spray the sand off my drivetrain with my garden hose and the wax will stay intact after each ride. I live in FL, all of our trails are sand so this might be a good solution
Thanks again
Yes - I'm finding that my needs are very different from those living in dry or sandy areas. My solution may not work for everyone. -Eddie
I will still use it. I use the ultra low temp stuff! Yep i winter ride in the cold when its dry. Which is not iften in the UK! No chain cleaning. Seems to perform well in the real world on my chain whilst riding. Lasts about 700km before i renew. I don't ride in the wet so i cannot comment.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
I have been using squirt for a while, putting it on and then the following week wiping it down. I still have crazy amounts of clumping around all the gears that it's touched. It's so bad on the rear derailleur cogs that it will grab small pieces of stuff as I ride and wedge it into the bearings. Small pieces of string from moss and other forest stuff. This time I put it on I only let it sit about 15 minutes and I wiped it all down. I wiped every bit of excess off everything, and then hung the bike to wait until next weekend to ride. If there are still clumps (and I mean it was bad, I've had to use a pick and screwdriver to get it off the cogs) I'm throwing it away and going to something else. I think for my purposes a dry lube is going to be the best, but I need to find one that goes on thinner than Squirt. I'm in FL too, so don't think it's because it's too cold out.
Weird. I think this is the first I've heard of this here in the comments. -Eddie
Thank you for your continued testing. This video is very useful and gives us a more objective view of the lubrication effect close to the actual scene.
Thank you! -Eddie
Great job following up on comments from the previous vid. I think testing the force needed to rotate the wheel was very helpful in demonstrating the impact of wax lubricants. I’m not sure how it would be done but making a similar test in which the amount of force/power needed to pedal the bike for 30 miles or so would be very interesting. Just thinking of how to make the tests reflect actual use. Subscribed!
Great suggestion! From what I've seen, most tests involve a human element - which is not good. There are many folks out there that compare rides and wattage output, with wax in particular, and I think that's not good science. I can ride with different power output on any given ride due to nutrition, sleep, bad mood, etc.! I think a controlled test like you describe would be awesome! -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking I agree on not involving a human element. Maybe a jig that connects a crank arm to an electric motor and the total electricity used is measured? The motor would need a speed controller to keep the cadence equal for all tests.
My personal experience with Squirt lube is, that temperature has a high impact. Above 10 °C it feels smoother. Below 8 °C they have a special lube for lower temperatures. Since Eddi did not provide the ambient temperature one can only guess, especially the "hanging chain" test shows me that it is not warm in his shed.
You should use a high quality synthetic motor oil for the friction test. Motor oil is a horrible bicycle lube, but would win hands down on the friction tester.
Thanks for the comment. -Eddie
These videos are great! Subscribed! Keep it up.
Awesome, thank you! -Eddie
You should do a follow up comparing Muc Off’s C3 Ceramic Dry Lube (Higher-end) to the normal Muc Off Dry Lube you previously tested.
From personal experience a lot of people I know are using the C3 lube because Muc-Off claims it’s better stuff.
I’d do a submerged wheel test and dry test for the wear scar test.
Thanks for the suggestions! -Eddie
hmm I do not do any fancy tests just real life observations. Its about 3500 km since I started waxing (hardwax, not Squirt) and the wear is minimal, before I had to change the chain after max 2000 km
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
oh wow! cheers for adding this video. I was also wondering where squirt would end up. great stuff!
Thanks for watching! -Eddie
Isn't the Muc-Off Dry Lube that won your chain lube shootout also wax-based? I'm surprised there is such a large difference in performance between Muc-Off Dry Lube and Squirt. Any theories on why that might be? I'm not familiar with either of the two lubes to know how they look/feel when applied to a chain.
I think it may be the PTFE in the Muc-Off? -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Where did you read that Muc-Off contains PTFE, Eddie? Their website says it is biodegradable.
@@pjdjr Someone else replied to the video that MucOff Dry had PTFE and was not biodegradable. I looked into it and found inconsistent ingredients. Someone pointed out that you can have a percentage of PTFE and still call your product biodegradable in some countries. I honestly was left unsure.
Wow, I'll have to look into that as well. Pretty interesting if it turns out to be the case. Thanks for your reply, Eddie!
@@SimplyMountainBiking Take this for what it is worth, but I wrote to Muc-Off and asked if there is PTFE in their Bio Dry Lube (your shootout winner) and they replied, "No, it did used to [contain PTFE] but the new Bio version does not contain any PTFE....As a brand we are trying to avoid PTFE in any of our products!" I have seen some (seemingly older) Muc-Off dry lube online that explicitly mentions PTFE on the label. Just speculation, but the product you tested has the current packaging, so I am thinking the lube you tested is PTFE-free.
i have used many chain lubricants and in real would testing on my bikes found squirt or really most wax emulsions is the cleanest and gives me the best life out of my chains 10,000km+ 0.5% wear.
with muc off its not really dry but just gets sticky as the solvent evaporates away and have found that after little time in wet conditions all lubrication is striped out of the chain negating the better wear in your testing, but with wax i have ridden 3 hours in the rain and lubrication of the chain is still good.
best benefit of the wax lubricates is that they are truly dry and leave little if any residue on chain rings cassettes and jockey wheels unlike muc off if you touch the chain you are getting black hands.
In the conditions I ride, I need to clean the chain regardless of what I put on it every 5 rides or so. I'd much rather have something easy to clean off, in my case. -Eddie
So confused now, as my longest wearing chain to date was the one that was waxed every 300km, but of course that is anecdotal. I do like the quietness and how clean it always seems to be compared to my other chains, but ... nice to see some hands on testing like this, and hope you take the top contenders here and expand the field.
Will do - thanks! -Eddie
because wax takes the least dirt on it, I've noticed that my squirted chain is louder than oiled but squirt performed exacly the same after 50km of riding as on 5km of riding and oil just dies after the first puddle or sand spot
These are world-class reviews. Bravo!
Thank you! -Eddie
This level of rigour is absolutely essential for a meaningful review of lubes. Thank you!
Thanks! -Eddie
Thank you for the add on video addressing many of the reservations from the previous chain lube video. In many ways you were seriously thorough in addressing concerns.
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I'd like to see those lubricity tests done again. This time, with your cup filled with just the actual lubricant AFTER the carrier has evaporated off. The static test with Squirt on the cylinder is only good as long as the grease is intact. This isn't a fair test against other things where they are actively flowing over the wheel. I think even the Muck Off lubricity test is invalid. It has a lot of floating grease in a carrier and isn't an actual test of just the lubricant. A chain dries out fairly quickly with use. That leaves behind the lubricant and no carrier. I could be wrong about Muck Off if it is actually an oil with no carrier. Just pointing out that the lubricity tests were not done how many of the chain lubes are intended to be used or the final state of the lube once it is applied to a chain. I'm betting other chain lubes perform much better than your initial results say they did. Just the lubricant in the cup for each one needs to be tested with no carrier fluid.
***
Id like to see the sling test redone. Give each lubricant an hour so all the carrier can evaporate. Then spin the chain. I bet lots more of them don't sling oil or grease.
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THE stickiness on the paper with sand test...that one was great!.
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The test with the scale and weights to test how easy or hard it is to pedal. LOVED IT! PLEASE do this for all the lubes after they have had the instructions for each one followed. This is a good proof of lubrication in actual application. Do you have a torque sensor in your BB? Is it sensitive enough to measure this level of torque? That's a good test if it is!
***
Would you mind adding Finish Line please? When I first bought it long ago, it was supposedly the best stuff. I'd love to see if that is true.
Thanks for your comment - very thoughtful. I do not have a torque sensor in my BB. Finish Line will almost certainly be included in a viewer's choice video. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Probably a BB torque sensor would not read the force needed to turn a free spinning wheel since that is a "no load" scenario. Thanks for replying back. IT shows that you care about what you do.
From what I've seen from Silica there are pro racing teams that are using the molten speed wax lubrication on their team bikes. Of course they may change out chains after each race leg but I find paraffin wax a great lube for my bike...and no more dirty oily chains to clean. Clean a wax chain every 200-300 miles by putting in boiling water to melt the old wax, remove and wipe dry then put into your molten wax to rewax the chain. Squirt is good to have on those long multiday rides where you can't do a proper cleaning and rewax.
In the conditions I ride, I clean my chain every 5 rides or so. It seems prohibitive for me to take off my chain every 5 rides to remove the old wax. I prefer a lube that's easier to clean off. Muc-Off comes off with high pressure spray from a garden hose and then running the chain through a microfiber cloth a few revolutions. -Eddie
Very profesionally done. Kuddos for that (half of the kuddos went to the farm guy, doing high grade of tests at his... well, farm). There are several companies selling the MucOff-stuff in my country, haven't yet gotten the time to get it on the autumn rebates - but am planning this week. I have abt. 5 bikes and three kid-bikes in need of maintenance. That said, after googling for chain lubricants, this product (from the video) started to appear in my Aliexpress feed... which made me slightly suspicious. This test confirms the suspicions. Greetings from Latvia and keep on riding!
Hey, thanks a lot! -Eddie
Hey Eddie, I appreciate the time and effort you put into these videos. But your test setup and its results seems to disagree with ZeroFrictionCycling AU's tests. I'm sure you know the long report they wrote a while ago if you dive deep into chain lube testing. Squirt lube ranked very high in nearly all test categories, particularly in chain wear and efficiency. Why do you think you are seeing almost opposite results in your test? I'm suspecting it has something to do with the difference in test setups. I'm curious to know your thoughts. Thanks!
I'm not sure why. The friction tester tests, in a lab setting, the wear protection of lubricants. Something about the chain perhaps? -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking you can understand what is different if you read the (somewhat a monster of, admittedly) PDF that accompany those tests, though Squirt is perhaps the worst of all wax lubes because, as much as I suspect, this is basically some sort of off-the-shelf wax emulsion that is 'dime a gallon' with cocaine-like markup... but it still works! Basically, why wax lubes work so well (but the best of them is immersive hot waxing lubes actually) because wax or otherwise solid lubricants get 'trapped' in the pin-plate wear interface that does NOT rotate 360 deg during pedalling, but articulate on a rather limited angle - as it is apparent for anyone who have seen pin wear patterns on an old chain. That allows the wax to retain in friction interface and 'reflow' into pin-plate friction interface as chain articulates, shits, runs around deraileur jockeys, etc. Personally, I've made my own waxing blend with some automotive antiwear additives and a combination of 1/3 paraffin wax, 1/3 beeswax and 1/3 of antiwear additives - if you don't wanna mess with them your best bet would be some high-end marine or agricultural GREASE, preferably calcum sulfonate one because it has great antiwear properties. This stuff works great in ALL conditions and extends like of the chain 10xfold - it is true, just like ZFC tests. The key to good performance is good CONSISTENCY of the wax (and you can only get this with immersive waxing) - it needs to be hard, pliable yet and NOT tacky at all. This way, after immersive waxing, it forms a sort of 'o-ring' inside friction pairs that plugs it from dirt and water ingress (to a point, of course), and gets very slowly consumed lubricating the chain. I am easily getting 1000 km PER APPLICATION and I have a test chain that I monitor wear on - comparing it to a new chain after washing both very clean with solvent... well, after about 15 thousand km of use it is about 2mm longer. The chain is of relatively unknown manufacturer - Taya OCTA SL, top of their range so it might also play a role. You should really try immersive waxing, THAT is a true quantum leap in chain maintenance.
@@Balorng Interesting! Tell me more about the anti-wear additives, and also why the beeswax? I’m currently using paraffin + teflon, with about 1/3 Molten because I had it around.
I used wax once. I went back to oil two days later. Wax is only good to keep a chain looking good on pictures or to show it off to your friends.
I have a similar experience, though I used it for a few months in gravel bikes visiting mostly dirt roads. I reapplied squirt every 100km the day before. The chain looked clean, no dirt was accumulating but the chain lasted 800 km :/
@@michahubert1179 800 km is awfully little. I'd have to replace my chain twice a month...
I'm afraid there's no replacement for cleaning rags and lubing the chain regularly with an oil based lube. I use hydraulic oil thinned with diesel (specially in the winter) for application, and let it dry overnight.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
One thing I do not agree with with the wearscar test is that there is nothing to recreate the motion of the chain when it is not under load. That is when the wax lube usually gets put back into place and is ready for the moment of when it is under load.
I would respectfully disagree that wax could get "put back into place" because its viscosity is so high. Maybe some of the lower viscosity lubes like Purple Extreme - but never wax-based. -Eddie
Personally I have tried paraffin candle wax on my chain on a commuter bike that I used 365 days a year in all conditions(yes, snow as well).
I used it for 2 years straight until I just had to question it all. If I lived in dry conditions most of the year I feel it will serve a better purpose, as well as mostly for tarmac use. My experience after x amount of miles in all year conditions is that it is very nice the first day if it is dry conditions. After the first day the dampened and quiet feel quickly changes to more noise as you wear through the coating on the outside that just breaks off. After this you notice a very noticeable decline in gearshift performance, and the overall performance just feels lackluster.
When you add real world weather scenarios into the mix, you quickly sit there feeling like you went on a ride and forgot to lubricate your chain.
The myth that there is no dust build up is such a big fat lie I am so tired of hearing all over by the way. Slightly less muck buildup I can agree to, but in the longrun that was no sellingpoint to me.
After all this time my feel is that it is way too much work for very little gain, and you just end up getting paranoid about anything drivetrain related lol.
Now that I've gotten a trailbike that gets filthy mcnasty all the time, I do a full clean after each ride, and I just won't deal with the hassle of waxing a chain for that use. If someone still believe you can ride through a bog of mud and your chain will still be squeaky clean with a waxed chain, you are just being naive.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
Thanks for the follow up video on Squirt. Very interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it -Eddie
Yeah, that fricton test machine isn't really an appropriate test for chain lubricants. That machine is really simulating a high-speed, high load bushing type of wear. The type of wear that a chain experiences is more of a very slow speed, somewhat high load application, and the lubricant is assumed to be contained within the chain link (unless it isn't). I really don't see how you can effectively test a wax based lubricant using that machine. In this case, I think that the only way to really evaluate the performance of chain lubricants is to conduct some sort of simulated ride testing using actual chains and derailleurs, much like the testing done by the Zero Friction Cycling Channel.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
What about muc-off, the previous winner, how does it handle the friction test, if it is given time to dry out and doesn't get replenished?
I am very curious whether it will also be scraped off since it is a dry lube.
Or any of the others for that matter, after having been resting over night. They might show very different characteristics in that case, considering their different viscosities and lube content.
In the first video, I do test Muc-off fully dry. It does extremely well - beating wax for sure. -Eddie
Hello Eddie. thanx for the revisit of the Squirt test. I've used it for over 5 years now, but since I first saw your ultimate test, I've been considering using R&R Gold. but my concern now is how long does it last compared to squirt. I've seen a few vids praising R&R with only downside been how it lasts compared to wax. some ppl say they have to relube in the same ride? Any thoughts about this? thanx again!
Thanks for your question - I ride MTB strictly and so I may not have the field experience you're looking for to compare. I did not have any mid-ride failures of R&R when I used it, but my long rides are generally 1.5 - 2 hours and under 20 miles. -Eddie
I think my favorite aspect of squirt is how quiet it can be. Especially on a road bike where the only noise is often your chain. Dirt from the desert seems to be less likely to stick too. Haven’t noticed any drag caused compared to muc off or epic. Of course, a quarter pound is a very small percentage of my body weight when accelerating from a stop.
Great point! -Eddie
I found Squirt to be loud.
@@justinwbohner you're not using it correctly
I wonder if Squirt Wax improves after a bit on the bike, with the chain warming up & thus the wax becomes less stiff? I honestly don’t know because assuming the chain moves more & is potentially warmer, means you’re moving at faster speeds and thus the additional temp is negated by the movement & wind. It might actually become cooler when riding fast…
Perhaps? -Eddie
A chain warming up significantly from stiff lubricant would be bad. Would cost a lot of power.
I think what is not covered in this test is how much gunk a sticky lube will collect overtime that will counter the lubrication it does. Simple comparison is why aren't we using wax to lubricate an engine.
Check out
ruclips.net/video/FbFNrnQ4QUo/видео.html
-Eddie
How about checking wear after a mountain bike ride in the dirt? I think other lubes attract much more dirt and will result in greater wear in actual mtb conditions. I'm thinking the stiffness of the Squirt chain indicates the wax is inside the chain where the wear matters.
This is a great point - but field testing is hard to control. I've been thinking of ways to do this in a lab - where it can be strictly controlled. -Eddie
How do other lubes fair in your drag test? I don't remember that being part of the previous tests
I'm not sure - I only set up the drag test for Squirt because it felt sticky to me. -Eddie
Thanks for the video! I have a suggestion for an even more thorough and precise test - I hope you will read.
Bike chains are worn with low force across many repetitions and your test is based on a much greater force over a very short span of time. Squirt lube is not made for high force friction, so the high force might push the wax aside, while it might stay in place and do its job correctly at a force representative of what our legs put into the chain. How about setting up a test with very low friction and many repetations?
Thank you for the suggestion. I think others have done it this way. -Eddie
Chain force is actually very high.
I just bought some before seeing this video, and Amazon won't let me return it. I also have a bottle of Muc-On which I hate as well. So which one should I use in dry climate?
I'd use the Muc off. -Eddie
Add ptfe to the candle wax !!
I bet that would work quite well. -Eddie
I have to agree. I'm not sure why all the hype around squirt. I'm not going to be buying a new bottle. I'd be curious to hear what you think of the work of zero friction cycling. He doesn't hype squirt but is the biggest advocate of wax based lubes (full immersion)
Here's a thought that just occurred to me. If wax is so good, why don't new chains from Shimano, SRAM, etc. come pre-waxed. It has to be cheaper than Sil-Tec (Shimano) and GLEITMO (SRAM). -Eddie
well, the stuff that comes on the chains isn't really for lubrication. It may have some lubricating properties, but from my understanding it's mostly to protect the chain while in storage. It's called cosmoline and the the military uses the same stuff on their equipment to protect it for storage. At least this is my understanding. @@SimplyMountainBiking
Just found this cuz I bought SQUIRT for my eBike due to the good reviews... Now I wanna throw it into the garbage. Awesome videos BTW!!! Keep it up!!! Subscribed. Cheers!
Glad I could help! -Eddie
Go ride in the real world not a lab dude. Then you will see why you bought Squirt based on real life reviews. Eddie's testing is great to watch and super interesting, but its lab based. Chuck in some real life trails and the variables change massively.
I love your testing methods!!
Thank you! -Eddie
Great job. Interestiong results. Thank You!
Thank you! -Eddie
Very interesting. I have been using Squirt for years and had no issues with wear. I may need to go back to my old lube and start cleaning my chain after every ride.
Yeah - I'm not sure Squirt's formula is great for wear protection. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Yeah - it is.
This is a good follow up test. I just bought a new chain, wondering which one I should use. Do you still use an oil based lube instead of wax these days? Thanks!
I have been using the Muc-off product for over a year and have had great results. It does get a bit dirty - but I've not found a product that doesn't in the conditions I ride. It's easy to clean with just water and a microfiber cloth. I clean my chain every 3-5 rides and re-apply. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Thanks so much. Love the smell of those Muc-offs too. :) Last one, do u strip the factory lube of the chain before installing it or just use as it is?
Hey Eddie thanks for giving us your time and energy, don't listen to the haters mate😁
I appreciate that! - Eddie
Hi Eddie! Great test you make. I will not use the Squirt´s that I have in my garage, it is thrown out!
Haha - glad you like it. -Eddie
His testing is very thorough. 👍🏼
Thanks! -Eddie
I bought one bottle of Squirt and was not impressed. Within a few kilometers after a fresh application I can feel the lubrication is not good. Also a very rusty chain if not applied every ride.
Thanks for sharing -Eddie
Great stuff! Thank you!
Glad you liked it! -Eddie
I really like these tests, I wish these had been done with the other lubes. Even the wet lubes should be allowed time to dry, to see if they form an emulsion or get tacky, and see how it affects performance.
Thanks for the comment. -Eddie
Thanks for the test! These after the questions I've been wondering about for a good while now. I moved to squirt mostly for it's advantages in rainy/dirty circumstances, the lubes tend to disappear after 100km in rain, while squirt remains. The main advantage for me is sealing the rollers which prevents muck coming in the chain and thus reducing the life of the chain (and cogs) I've always felt there probably was a penalty in drag, good to see you answered that question! Very much appreciated and big high five from the (often rainy) Netherlands 🙂👍
Greetings - thanks for sharing! -Eddie
What about factoring in the dirt & dust that lubes accumulate differently? I guess if your riding inside on your trainer, then maybe this test would be applicable.
Take my lab results and apply them to your real-world. Too many variables to account for everyone's riding conditions. -Eddie
Hi Eddie! I really enjoy these types of componentry / peripheral products content for bicycles, and look forward to seeing more!
Also want to add on that for Squirt, the residual gunk after some rides is incredibly difficult to get rid of. Unlike its marketing whereby the gunk is supposed to flake off, it adheres strongly to the chain. I'm guessing that it's a characteristic of wax-based lube, giving a pseudo-clean look on the surface, but still leaving chain marks on my calfs. :(
Yeah - I just tried to remove it from my chain and it was going nowhere. I guess it needs a hot bath! -Eddie
Dont try to remove wax with hot water. Always use cold water and degreaser, otherwise the wax will melt again and become even more sticky.
Has anyone tried squirt letting it dry and apply dry lube for extra protection ？Thanks!
I've not! -Eddie