Free Speed! | How Much Faster Is A Clean Bicycle Chain?
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- We visited Muc-Off's HQ to see how much faster a clean chain can be than a dirty chain. Using Muc-Off's state of the art dynamometer, we measured the efficiency loss you suffer from having a filthy chain to see if it really is worth keeping your drive train sparkling clean!
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How often do you clean your chain?
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How often do you clean your chain?
I cleaned mine once. Within 2 years it was dirty again, so I've never bothered since as it will only get dirty again!
Clean it about every two-three weeks. Road / gravel bike. Gets lots of dirt and mud on/in it.
Once a week on the bike.
Question - why was the muc - off wet lube being used as a control? I am using the muc off dry lube, does it mean that dry lube will equate to higher power losses compared to wet lube?
Since waxing my chain, i rarely clean it anymore
“38% less power required after cleaning”... I think you’ve inhaled a bit too much degreaser 😂
Yeah exactly my thoughts 😂 probably 38% off of the 9% or 9w loss...whatever Idk
Wait is degreaser bad for you?
@@BeyondEcstasy No he is talking about paint remover.
8W lost when dirty, 5W lost when clean, (8-5)/8 = 3/8 = 38%. Math checks out & calculator does not inhale anything.
over the drive train loss of 9 watts so that means if you pushing 300watts your effectivly only putting out 291 watts to the pavement while a clean chain your pushing 296 watts a difference of about 5 watts or so no alot on a sunday ride but deffinitly help in long race your talking about 1 minute of savings for a 2 hours race that alot of for pro rider.
A few comments.
The power savings are minimal.
The main reason for keeping a clean chain and drivetrain is to prolong the lifespan of the components.
This appears to be an extended advert for Muc Off and wouldn’t look out of place on QVC ( other shopping channels are available)
Whilst I appreciate the need for sponsorship and the need to keep the sponsonsors happy, there appears to be more and more blatant advertising or ‘infomercial’ content.
Come on GCN- up your game!
stfu where do you think the revenue comes from? Are you paying the presenters?
@@Grunge_Cycling That's fine but you can't make a scientific video with bias
Muc-Off
Plugging The Living Daylight
Surprised They Not Chucking In The Umbrella & Socks Aswell
Mic off product placement in every video
Muc Off's advertising is everywhere. I think that's where goes most of their investments.
The sentence "38% less power required after cleaning" is really misleading, it should say "38% reduction in chain losses". Those are two completely different concepts. In fact you have about a 3 watt decrease in power so for the 250w input you actually observe "1.2% less power required after cleaning" (for the worse case, the 200 mile chain only showed 0.2% reduction). Some absolute marketing shithousery going on here...
Makes it sound as significant as drafting..
Very shady indeed. It means, that if you rode on a dirty bike let's say with 20km/h, you'll loose 240 meters/hour. A Kilometer per 4 hours. Or 3 Minutes of extra ride time. From a time/ effort perspective, this is neglectable.
But of course, 38% is a big number and sound just a little bit better then 1.2%.
For what tough? They could just be honest. 1.2% *could* make a difference in an actual race. Tough racers would keep their chain clean anyway I suppose. More importantly: Less wear. You can extend the lifetime of your components quite a bit, saving you ultimatively stress and money.
Also, propably even more important to most people: A clean chain is nice and smooth and "silent". Riding a clean chain is just a lot more satisfying.
Yeah, and it's not even "chain loss" as the drive train naturally loses power in itself... bad purposely confusing maths...
Bike chain oil and grease is a rip off, most companies do not make their own, they buy it in bulk and get it repackaged in smaller bottles / tubes. Bike shops should offer a refillable service like some cleaning companies do, this would make it cheaper and save plastic.
dude just buy the 1 dollar chainsaw lube, does the same and the chain in a chainsaw is under a lot more stress
Car gearbox oil is unbeatable and also way cheaper than bike-oriented stuff.
Wow! I'm never cleaning my chain again.
I clean my Campagnolo chain once a month or two. I wax the chain once a week. I wipe the chain off after every ride. Because of this maintenance care my chain stays looking jewelry necklace, enough to put on my neck.
I clean my mountain bike chain once every few months, and lube weekly. Chain still lasts a couple years. Perhaps its related to my pathetic power output, but i suspect a clean chain simply isn't that important unless you're competing. And i don't compete with others, just with myself, so the saved time and energy is worth the couple watts lost.
@@marcalvarez4890 You really should clean it more often because it's not really about the chain, it's the wear on your chainrings and cassette. By not maintaining your chain, you're wearing down your drive train and you'll soon find you'll need new chainrings and a new cassette. Something to think about.
@@DaleBradbury Thanks i appreciate the friendly reminder!
But i did change chains when needed, and never had to buy new derailure or chain ring in 15 years. Like i said, i lube every ride, and put out low power, 200 watts approx, plus i weighed 125 and the bike is only 24 pounds. Pretty low forces all around.
Exactly...no need
Although the power loss might be 9.5% or 38% less with a clean chain, since the power loss was so little to begin with, the conclusions are very iffy if not downright misleading.
Yup, they should compare the power output on a clean chain vs a dirty chain instead of comparing the power losses.
For example: a dirty chain that loses 2 watt vs a clean chain that loses 1 will make make the clean chain appear twice as efficient. But if the power output on the dirty chain is 298 watts while the power output on the clean chain is 300 watts then then it means that the clean chain advantage is negligible.
yeah, but they gotta sell degreaser somehow.
If you are racing though, even that can be significant. Even for a casual rider, the overall maintenance of your various components can add up to make a difference.
@@danlev6927 I use gasoline. Very inexpensive when it isn't used for running engines.
@@Perception_ Yeah kerosene does the job best.
“A chain that hasn’t been cared for, a week or two weeks”
Me with a chain that has only been cleaned 3-4 times after 2,000+ miles 😳
surely.
Must be riding clean roads without much rain
Or waxed :P
This videos just shows that you should clean your chain to reduce the components wear and not for efficiency reasons. There's a reason that chains are so domiment in mechanical engineering and its the fact that they are extremely efficient no matter what, so rly you should have focused on the other aspect. Also, a clean chain is a silent one and thats something everyone can appreciate while riding :)
But comparing components wear would require a loooooooot more time and money than this sponsored video.
@@nounours2627 Instead of just testing the chain, they should test an entire drivetrain, dirty vs. clean. More power is probably lost in the rotating components like the jockey wheels if they are dirty, than in the chain.
Super helpful vid. No more time shall I waste cleaning and lubing my chain, chasing the fantasy of a material wattage gain. 😂
What about wearing out your drivetrain...
While there is no point in overdoing it, it sure is not good for the drive train and noise if the chain is dry.
7:41-8:18. What an absolutely dreadful conclusion. Embarrassing.
and they keep saying high tech, what a insult to actual high tech
"200-350 watts... I would say a keen cyclist". Yes, keen but only for 15 mins :-0
200 is not a lot at all tbh.
*250-300w
745.7 watts = 1 HP. BTW it's pronounced "dynamometer" not "dyno-meter".
Haha
@@Quasilobo incorrect, dynamometer measures how effective your dynamo detergent is 😅
Bit misleading experiments. Would simply lubing the chain to begin with result in that 0.5W improvement that was achieved through a rigorous deep clean and lubing?
I think this is a case of not trying to upset the muc-off video sponsor.
They should compare the power output on a clean chain vs a dirty chain instead of comparing the power losses.
For example: a dirty chain that loses 5 watts vs a clean chain that loses 2.5 watts will make make the clean chain appear twice as efficient. But if the power output on the dirty chain is 297.5 watts while the power output on the clean chain is 300 watts then then it means that the clean chain advantage is negligible.
The way a dynamometer works is you supply the drive motor with 300W precisely, and measure the delivered output of 295W from a clean chain vs 292W from a very dirty chain.
295/300 = 98.3% efficiency for the clean chain, and 292/300 = 97.3% efficiency for the dirty chain, or 1% (obviously, the 3W difference gives 3/300 = 1% difference.)
Keep in mind if you're only cruising around you might hardly even hit 100W output in which the real-world power loss dirty/clean is 1 single watt, which is negligible.
Which is why people like me can ride for seasons without servicing the chain and suffer pretty much nothing at all. There's zero chance I'd ever "lay out the plank" to lube each individual roller, that's just stupid.
This entire episode is an advert, you should tag it as such.
They’re always doing that, ask durianrider 😂
This piece of wood is incredible.
That’s what she said
@@TheUsername1302 🤣
I appreciate the honesty of this video.
hahahah
I used to spend to a lot of time and money keeping my chain clean and lubed with expensive products until I went on holiday for a few weeks and rented a bike.
The only product available to me was an old tin of 3 in 1 multipurpose oil which, after about 300 miles of use, I realised was perfectly adequate and that I had been wasting my time and money over the years.
There is another guy in the GCN or another video using only Wd40. He looks like a pro, or at least more pro than me. If Wd40 is good enough for him then it is good enough for me?
@@softbingan WD40 is 90% kerosene, not really a lubricant
Water Displacer is what the WD stands for, version 40, so goes the lore. But a lube it isn’t.
Bringing an almost clean chain to this test is like wet shaving in the morning and after lunch and comparing the results.
i just like how a clean and lubricated chain feels compared to a clearly dirty and semi dry one. even if there's no significant performance, enjoyment is important for me. to each his/her own but yeah
Alex, when you were there, did you take the opportunity to test a new box fresh chain with the manufactures gloop on it and then re test it striped with standard lube applied?
Great question. Also want to see how much the super fancy lubes are worth
I sure did, You'll have to keep an eye out over the coming weeks for that!
I hate the factory gloop they put on my new KMC chain, the stuff is absolute vaseline and a magnet for all the dirt leaves and dust the road has to offer. I tried degreasing it with Purple Power and it still wouldn't take all of it off.
@@mrrodriguezHLP have the same problem with Shimano chains. My strategy is to buy 5 chains, degrease them in 3 steps and at the end when they are dry and degreased, I apply the Oz cycle wax on all of them. Then I have a batch for the next 1500km. Rewaxing is not that hard anymore for a already waxed/degreased chain.
Additionally my indoor trainer does not become dirty with the waxing technique.
@@SaschaN How long can you ride on one chain? Are you following oz advice on wax temperature? You're not by any chance from a German speaking country, Sascha? If so I'm wondering what device you got for heating up the wax since the slow cookers I'm looking at don't have adjustable temperature by degrees Celsius. I was thinking about a deep fryer but the rod in there probably heats up too quickly and burns the wax 🤔
This is an excellent demonstration of why a quick wipe and a squirt of poundshop WD-40 knock-off is absolutely fine.
Fine for bare minimum. A good quality oil makes a huge difference. I've only been cycling for a year but I like taking care of my bikes. Especially one that costs 4,000. Dry lubricant doesn't let all the grim stick as easily. I use finish line. I used wd40 before. But it doesn't compare as it is water-based also. Just try it. And hot soapy water with dawn and a good brush is one of the best ways to clean other than deep cleaning.
@@sethmichael8188 WD-40 is not water-based.
@@davidf2281 silicone. Still trash for bikes
@@sethmichael8188 Nope, not silicone either. Keep trying.
@@davidf2281 shit based that's what I was thinking of.
For me, the most satisfying part of this video is witnessing a drivetrain achieving 98-98.5% mechanical efficiency. The majority of the power loss is attributable to the articulation of the pins, links and rollers on the taut side of the chain, especially when pedaling hard. The exclusion of the rear derailleur jockey wheel from this rig seems justified, as its effect on the power loss is likely to be on the order of one watt.
The conclusion is a literal assault on good sense and logic. Shameful
So a chain lubed with muck-off is only 1/2 a watt better than a dirty chain...
Time to move to Morgan Blue.
Squirt or other waxes
Well it’s because they used muc off, if he went with wax the savings would have been more
Not even 0.5 watts if the screens shown in the video were actual test values.
"Filthy chain, it has not been taken care in couple weeks of riding"
I feel personally attacked by that statement
Could it have changed with rear derailleur? I think bending more the chain creates more resistance and more room fore improvement.
Would not have any influence on the result: The power loss occurs in the section of the chain being under tension, not in the loose section.
@@christiannasca3520 Any additional components rolling or moving with any mechanical force create a loss point of energy and efficiency. That's just the way things work.
@@MetalY2KMusic The loss is always a percentage of the transmitted power. And while the entire power of several hundred Watts is transmitted through the tensile force on the upper segment of the chain under stress, the power transmitted along the lower, loose section of the chain is close to zero.
So the more power is transmitted by the cyclist through the chain drive, the more negligible the loss in the derailleur becomes.
What did we learn 🤔
Get an ultrasonic washer - compress air dry the chain - stick your chain in a bespoke oven and then re-lube - then save 1/2 a watt 👍😂😂
There you go you keen cyclists, that’s what you need to do …………. 😏😏😉😉😁😁
You forgot the most important thing, a plank of wood.
Hahah yea it all went wrong when he reapplied the muc off lube instead of waxing
Love the little ultrasound bath for degreasing - will try to borrow one from the lab to take off the factory grease. THAT I will continue doing before lubing my chain with Squirt - best lube ever.
I need to get a lube plank! that's what I've been doing wrong all these years
Highly important to lube up the wood!
The main reason for cleaning the chain is so the bike adheres to the Principle of Silence (Velominati Rule #65)
gave up with gcn a year or so ago, came back and this is the first thing I see.. it's worse than I expected 🤣
Wow I’m never cleaning my chain again (not that I ever have) - free extra workout 😅
I been trying to skip this ad for ten minutes now! 😉
🤣🤣🤣
From what I hear especially around 2:20, I think 38% is the reduction of power loss (inefficiency due to chain), not the reduction of power required (our foot pedal) to get the same output (to spin the bike wheel).
“This is actually off my girlfriend’s bike” ….sure Alex whatever you say 😉
*Alex's Girlfriend has Left the Chat* 😅
Hey, you wouldn’t know her anyway… She’s from a different school.
If you do something like this again, I’d love to see the efficiency savings of relubing a semi dirty chain like the first one in this video. I’d have to imagine it would be 10% more efficient as well without having to totally strip it down.
or spend more money on cleaning the chain than a new chain will cost
a chain doesn't need to be oiled. wd40 sprayed on a rag, hold the rag on the chain and back pedal. do this often, you will never have a sticky, nasty chain, cogs, or rings. the only thing oil does is collect dust and grit to form a paste that wears drive train components out. cheap chains and the chains from way back needed oiled, to keep them from rusting. buy a higher quality chain like one from kcm keep it really clean, and you wont have these problems. buy a new chain, keep it clean, dont oil it and ride it like that for awhile. then oil the chain and go for one ride, and check the chain, youll see.
Great study..Thanks GCN. Now I don't need to worry about dirty chain or clean it. Just lubing is fine!
I've checked 4 online retailers, over the past couple months, and can find a chain anywhere. Its more important now, than ever before, to keep a clean drivetrain.
Absolute gain is more important than relative (proportional) gain in watts. This experiment shows 0.5-3 watts saved with a clean chain. Not a huge difference if you don't count seconds.
So at 250W, watt savings between a filthy of chain and a super clean chain is only roughly 2 watts?
Half a watt!! Wow, let me immediately invest in an ultrasonic cleaner
The important thing is to go out and ride your bike. If it happens you're using 5 watts more than you should, it's of no importance :-)
P.S.: I never clean my chains, the effort of taking the chain out and putting it back in plus the time spent on cleaning and products, etc, it's just not worth. I just wipe them off with a clean cloth and apply new lube to each roller like once a month. And I replace them when they fall out of tolerances, of course.
The absolute most enjoyable part of this video is reading the comments!! Oh man :)
Another 10 minutes of my life I won't get back
A fair comparison would be a dirty chain vs a clean chain after a "normal" cleaning process not that professional "deep" clean. Given that tiny gain after deep cleaning, I'd assume the gain after usual cleaning would be negligible.
That's the same thing I thought.
Maybe they did and it didn't come out well for Muc Off (Rip off)
It's probably fair to assume that similar results could be obtained with basic cleaning tools. Keep in mind that individual cyclists are probably not the only audience to this video, but also employees of other bike shops. The parts cleaning and drying chambers, while expensive for a single user, would be well worth the investment to large bike repair shops in terms of the labor hours saved doing an otherwise menial task.
Between the run time when the dirty chain was used n before the same, but clean chain was strapped on was the front chain ring n rear sprocket cleaned ?
Would be interesting to see the increased resistance of the chain following the path of a derailleur instead of a simple chainring -> sprocket arrangement. Love the channel anyway, Alex talking tech is always good (even if the walls of his garage need painting)
Would be the same percentages, only the same percentage more loss of wattage.
While you're at muc off's "cutting edge facility", can you ask them how on earth do we clean a chain that has dried out muc off wet lube on it? You know, that delightful stuff that looks like hardened tar..
That stuff is awful. Banned from any of my bikes. Ceramic dry stuff is ok
@@edpilling4955 I'm a mechanic and have my own shop. When it comes to chain lubes the straight answer is: anything but muc off. Hell they might call it muc ON! Sorry but something that dries like cooking oil and doesn't come off no matter what you throw at it it's not a good lube. Ok if you're the guy that takes care of his bike it may work for you, but as we know not all riders are like this, many tend to forget that stuff on and if it's muc off branded then it's headache time.
And believe me I threw at it EVERYTHING I had here: disc brake cleaner, isopropyl alcohol, motorex chain cleaner, morgan blue chain cleaner (the best there is btw), diesel, petrol, kerosene (yes, I have kerosene) and of course, their own chain cleaner (the yellow nice smelling stuff) and nothing works, except the wire brush that only cleans the outside..
However I salute their goal of making bio-degradable stuff, but for now at least some of their products just don't do the job properly. Fair to say that I haven't tested all of them though.
Would love to see this same machine used to test big gear vs small gear combinations at the same ratio to see how much more efficient a larger drivetrain is
It's a bit misleading to look at the 38% number. The real difference is how much power is lost of the total input, and even if it was 5 watts, then that's 2% of that 250 watts through the chain. Useful of course but it's not a night and day difference. If the first chain was used as an example, that 0.5 watts is 0.2% which is getting close to irrelevant.
I suspect going round the corners of a derailleur would make this clean/dirty result more significant?
I expect quite a few of us (and me) were expecting around 10 watts. :/
7:06 A chain that someone hasn't cared for, a week or two weeks.
My Bike: 👀
When I replaced my year old MTB drivetrain that I never cleaned nor adjusted, it was a world of difference. I d say 50W at least. But there was more stuff adding up. Stretched chain, dirty chain, worn chainring n casette, dirty n worn deraileur, not porperly adjusted components. Changed them all together, n felt the massive difference. I am cleaning n adjusting my bikes ever since :)
I'm 61 years of age and just getting back into cycling after abut 40 years. I've been watching some videos on chain waxing which seem a really impressive way of keeping the junk away from chains. What are your thoughts on waxing please
The only 12 speed chain I could find for my Sram eagle/force road mullet was to buy from Europe and then they went out of stock. 😳😳
Would be good to see a episode on what consumers can do to help them and tips on finding parts in current times?
@@hansanders4983 yep, done that for a few of my parts, then they went out of stock 😳🙂
@@bikepackingadventure7913 they have an alert service when it’s back in stock. Worked for me when I was trying to get a 11-34 Shimano cassette.
I would like to see this machine test some lubricants and discover what is best for the chain; dry or wet and which if those is the best. Also how long is the average life of the lubricant on the chain.
Only 200 miles and you call that dirty, obsessive or what. Thought you were going to say 2000 miles.
Firstly, the conclusion was confusing. They should have expressed the results in Watts, not percentages. And secondly, I suspect most people would have wanted to see the power differences with a derailleur set up, not a single speed set up.
Savings of 1 or 2 watts in 250W is not really worth the bother unless you are going to compete in a race with equals. I just lube it now and then and clean it on occasions to protect my clothes (and hands when I jumps off).
I would clean it after a muck ride but on the road every 100h or so of riding which is maybe one a month.
Moral of the story... no need to clean your chain basically ... hahahaha
I think a better test would be to see how much better shifting is with a clean chain compared to a dirty one
"Far more efficient": come one guys! 1/2 a watt!
you are contributing to the stupidification of the world we live in!
Lol. "Filthy chain" still cleaner than most of my chains.
0.5W is about 1/10th of the accuracy of many powermeters. TdF riders will have an advantage, be me? I assume that carrying change from the coffee stop will have more impact.
Yep , what I got from that video is that the difference between a dirty and clean chain (that is a normal dirty chain , not a special "dirtied" chain set up just for the video) is sweet f@ck all.
"Let's compare the difference between a new and used chain by comparing a new chain vs a pretty-new chain thats only been ridden 200 miles" thus sabotaging the entire experiment from the start
I'm one of those nuts that waxes his chain after almost every ride. I heard about little to no wear, components lasting longer etc. So I decided to see just how long I could get a chain to last with using just paraffin wax melted in a crock pot. I was suspect about the life being reported out of chains waxed after every ride. I understand my results are anecdotal, but currently at 17000km on an 11 campy record chain and under .25 on the chain tool wear markings. People saying no good in wet or dirt, whatever. Gravel bike at 5000km and also under .25 on chain tool. Waxing is a pain at first while learning the steps to do it, but if you want to save money and have the best performing chain, then I suggest waxing. Its pennies to do.
As a mechanical engineer I can only say, that just paraffin is not a lube at all. Every report what sates its working simple NOT true (e.g they want to make money from it, like friction facts report does). Most of the time they are using a mix of oil with paraffin (like a generic candle), where the oil is the lube, or a mix with a dry lube like PTFE. Yes such a mix can work in some condition, but 1. the viscosity depends strongly on the exteral temperature 2. If you stand out, the oil foil will be damaged and it can't build itself back, like a pure oil does. 3. if you mix it with oil to be a good lube like a grease it will be not dry anymore 4. It wears and wash out quickly, this is the worse property of it. I can only recommend oil (any kind of oil will be good) aka wet/dry lube for your chain. If you want a fire&forget solution for your chains, use a totally closed chain case, like a dutch bike does.
@@balsa02 Like I stated purely anecdotal. But I am at 17000km. I have not replaced a cog set yet. I have not replaced a chainring yet. Good luck doing that with oil. My chains do not hold dirt and grime like oil does, which will cause the inner pins to wear. Stretch the chain and destroy the drive train. A great article about this and testing done on almost all lubes was in Cyclingtips. Called Seeking the holy grail: A fast chain lube that saves you money. cyclingtips.com/2018/03/fast-chain-lube-that-saves-you-money/ It is worth a read. I found the comments the most informative as the author answers questions and gives more details.
17000km on a derailleur bike is impressive. I can get close to that on a single-speed, but by that point the chain and gears are so worn there is no way on earth the bike would work if it had a derailleur in the path.
@@balsa02 Erm, Paraffin IS a lubricant. It's the physical properties of the chemical that determine that. It just so happens, that the chains of hydrocarbons are long enough to be solid at room temperature. It might necessarily be an ideal lube for you by the sounds of it, but totally depends on ones goal as to whether it's worth it. Wax is dry, so doesn't pick up dirt easily, so reduces wear on components, however it doesn't stick as well like wet lubes, so isn't a long lasting. That is probably the major differences between them.
The viscosity 'problem' is the same with all lubes. Grease is a lube, and in your wheels and BB turns to oil like substance while riding, that's how it gets out. It just so happens new chains tend to be pre-lubed with grease, not oil. Grease is probably a better chain lube, but it's hard to get in. Some people suggest DON'T degrease your new chain for as long as you can get away with.
You can mix paraffin with a volatile solvent so that is evaporates after application. This is similar to how commercial dry lubes come as a liquid and 'dry' on application.
Wax does adhere to other things, just not as well as oil. That's fairly obvious from getting melted max/oil on your skin, they both stick for sure, but one is a lot easier to get off! You can make wax slightly stickier by mixing with something like xylene, not just oils. But it sticks reasonably well, if your chain is perfectly clean before you wax. It can resist wet weather okay, so long as the waxing is done when you chain is super clean. (I waxed my chain for commuting and would do 2-300km of riding minimum in the wet/mixed weather if done well, so would last all week in the winter).
The other benefit to waxing is re-waxing cleans the chain, so you only have to clean the chain properly once. Re-waxing is a doddle. Also, it's mildly amusing when you waxed your chain and let it dry, it goes rock solid in one long line.
I used to wax my chains. Basically once a week and had similar results to the OP. But I take your points. I just think there are plenty of reasons to wax your chain before you even get into frictional gains. I stopped as frankly, I think the biggest downside is it takes a lot longer to lube your chain. It's no longer a 2 min job, and you do have to do it frequently, I did it like once a week.
@@weasellyone2 “If you re-wax every 200 km, wear rates will remain untraceable for a long time,” says Kerin. “Re-waxing every 300 km, the average for a top chain like YBN SLA is 15,000 km to the recommended 0.5% wear mark".
I'm not doing any form of maintenance that often my niqqa.
Very useful video. Thanks 👍.
Both of those chains were clean. You haven't seen mine. Had my bicycle for 3 years, didn't know much about lubing, just used spray lube time to time, not wiping it off or anything, driving through all sorts of terrain, so much grime stuck to the chain, then I lube it again and more sticks onto it. Now that chain is a mess, would have gotten maybe -15 watts on the machine :v
A chain without muck-off products is the fastest.
100%!
Mic off grinding paste eats your components!
you mean with
Looking at Team Ineos' result this year, apparently you are dead wrong.
I love their cleaning products, but I swear to ceramic speed for lubrication.
They could’ve saved a lot of people from roasting them if they just promoted how decent that their lubrication is for general use. In regards to differences in percentages I really only problem that would hold someone back would be stuck rollers. Some thing that has 200 miles of light dirt accumulated is not going to be noticeable in the slightest for even high end riders.
N00b here. Cleaning is different than lubing correct? I've been told that "cleaning" your chain is not recommended as it can push out deep interior oil that comes from the manufacturer and then it's virtually impossible to get oil back into those tiny spaces. I recently replaced my chain after 1500 miles and since then have been using rock n roller gold after every one to two rides thinking this is very very good maintenance for my new chain going forward. Am I missing the boat in any way? Is this a good strategy for a very amateur cyclist with almost zero bike maintenance know-how?
Would love to see how much you lose after cleaning but without lubrication.
yes. I suspect not a lot. Lubrication is mainly to increase components life expectancy.
Would be very interesting to know, how a belt drive compares to a clean/ dirty chain. Maybe you could do a similar video on this?
I ride a trekking bike with gear hub and belt drive, not a racing bike at all. But the smoothness and silence of the belt is just phenomenal and makes it so enjoyable to ride.
I also chose this configuration for practical reasons, since belt drive and gear hub are inert to dirt and need almost no maintenance, which is a priority to me on a commuter bike.
@Maciej Jan Długosz Very interesting, but the measurement is done without load, making it meaningless. The results could be similar or opposite, if measured under significant load of for example 200 W.
How much oil are going to save? If you oil each roller one by one? Or oil the chain as you peddle it?
My chain is probably twice as bad as the dirtier chain here. At least I can look forward to some performance gains soon after I get my drivetrain cleaned.
Oh, sure, they're independent. No bias at all.
This video is exactly why I almost NEVER wash my Supercaliber and NEVER EVER wash my SLR...
For the next video you should compare the efficiency of an over greased chain and a chain that doesn’t have enough.
The presentation of the numerical data in this study is lamentable. But yep, clean your chain regularly
Put on a new chain today. Removed the sticky factory lube, and it feels so good.
Okay now do a comparison between chain and belt… and throw in other crazy drivetrain systems while you’re at a it.
Dynamometer, not dynometer 😉
My winter bike’s chain is disgusting - and far past replacement time. I should get around to fixing that. But my road bike’s chain was just cleaned last night! Smooth and quiet
How is 0.5 watt equivalent to 9.5% less power required?
1 - (4.5 / 5) = ~ 10%, I dont have the exact measurments but this is the math.
For the chain. But yeha not for the whole bike
'Required' is the wrong word. 9.5% less power lost in the chain. Overall, in the context of a couple of hundred W input power, order of 0.25% less power required for constant speed.
@@rich8037 In other words they are full of shit or what Richardo?
my god, that chain was in for a treat!
So you have a clean chain that's getting 100% (baseline) and as soon as you start splashing mud on it it drops to 62%?
No they're measure % difference in chain resistance. So if you loose 4.5W with a clean chain and 5W with a dirty, that's a 10% in resistance.
But if you look as a total power 300W, an increase of 0.5W due to a dirty chain, you only loose 0.17% in effectiveness.
Basically GCN tech has been very very miss leading especially if you don't deal with stats often
@@supernoodles908 True. You just explained it and I still don't understand it.
@@kaspervestergaard2383 it honestly annoys me how people miss lead people with stats manipulation
@@supernoodles908 That's why it's good with a comment section. Shouldn't be able to disable it in my opinion.
Do GCN make videos anymore, or just adverts?
6:14 How is chain tension controlled on the testing machine? How much difference does that make?
The tension on the taut side of the chain is directly related to the amount of torque input from the motor to the chainring. 250 watts from an actual rider will put exactly the same amount of tension on the chain, averaged throughout the pedal stroke, as 250 continuous watts provided by a motor, when both are spinning at the same cadence in the same gear. The tension in the slack side of the chain is purely due to the catenary shape it assumes and is negligible in comparison to the drive-side tension.
You needed a proper dirty gritty chain to start with. That one was not bad at all
While KMC recommends never fully degrease the chain. I don't know who to believe anymore.
With all the suggestions and positions out there on the net, this becomes a question of faith xD
@@Charles_Bro-son after the radical chain waxing religion, i will start my own one, the "wipe it clean, relube, and clean it only when it's filthy" religion.
@ Heresy!
When it looks bad. Clean jockey wheels too!
A clean chain is all about component wear and longevity. The average cyclist won’t notice the difference between a clean or dirty chain.
Need to stick to journalism, cycling and cleaning bikes. Best you leave the Mathemagics for those that can do math.. LMFAO ... Those % are waaaay out!
Y’all talk funny. Lol. Cheers from North Carolina 🍻
Good idea for oiling a chain I'll try it next time
This machine cannot reproduce the actual chain resistance. Unlike a motorbike chain, a bicycle chain has sections where the tension on the chain is reduced.
All chain drives have a taut side and a slack side when transmitting power, regardless of the application. It's the taut side where most of the power losses are realized within the chain, both on a bicycle, and on this test rig.