Touhou 16: Hidden Star in Four Seasons - Extra Stage
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- Опубликовано: 24 фев 2019
- 𝘛𝘳𝘶𝘦 𝘍𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘚𝘦𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘵 𝘎𝘰𝘥 ~ 𝘏𝘪𝘥𝘥𝘦𝘯 𝘚𝘵𝘢𝘳 𝘪𝘯 𝘍𝘪𝘧𝘵𝘩 𝘚𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯
The stage itself honestly isn't too bad, to a certain degree it's kinda like a slightly harder to on par version of Stage 5 and Stage 6 (though without the worst offenders like the suicide bullet squads from Stage 5). However it does function as a good warm-up for your new season power that's unique to this stage that the mid-bosses and Okina herself will make use out of. With this you can now shoot behind you, so expect enemy squads to also come from behind to make use out of it.
Mai and Satono come back as mid-bosses, and they behave similarly to how they did back in Stage 5. They love using attacks that come from behind you, so keep that in mind, know what's coming, and be prepared to start spells right up close to them.
Okina's similarly tricky, but ultimately not too bad. The biggest thing is she loves non-directional attacks with moves coming from all over (especially behind you). They all tend to have means of making your life easier, so long as you know what’s coming ahead of time and employ them you'll generally have an easier time against her.
Difficulty - Extra
Character - Magician Shivering in the Arctic Cold: Marisa Kirisame
Final Stage - Ushirodo-no-Kuni
BGM - No More Going Through Doors
Boss - The Ultimate, Absolute Secret God: Okina Matara
BGM - Secret God Matara ~ Hidden Star in All Seasons.
Spell Cards
2:37 - Drum Dance "Powerful Cheers"
2:48 - Mad Dance "Crazy Backup Dance"
3:04 - Bullet Dance "Twin Typhoons"
8:03 - Non-spell
8:15 - Secret Ceremony "Reverse Invoker"
8:39 - Non-spell
8:53 - Secret Ceremony "Rear Shots of Betrayal"
9:06 - Non-spell
9:28 - Secret Ceremony "Danmaku Dupion"
9:48 - Non-spell
10:12 - Secret Ceremony "Fire of Ena"
10:57 - Non-spell
11:16 - Secret Ceremony "Kyogen of the Back Door"
11:51 - Non-spell
12:09 - Secret Ceremony "Matarah Dukkha"
12:31 - Non-spell
12:47 - Secret Ceremony "Sword of the Seven Stars"
13:07 - Non-spell
13:24 - Secret Ceremony "Performers Unattached to Society"
14:05 - "The Back Face's Dark Sarugaku"
15:37 - "Anarchy Bullet Hell"
Vote for a new doujin game for me to play here
www.poll-maker.com/poll226321...
Translations courtesy of the Touhou wiki 
Игры
Okina be like
"I'm a secret god but I also have an ego, please allow me to show off my powers as all the seasons go out of whack"
On a sliiightly more bitter note: About a month before HSiFS was released there was an attack on a care centre for the disabled in Sagamihara; a former caretaker went in and started stabbing people, leaving 19 dead and another 26 injured, later claiming that it was all for the sake of euthanizing people that he thought were better off dead. This horrible event was berely even covered in Japanese media, since the disabled are heavily discriminated against, and so ZUN decided to subtly bring some attention to the way Japan was silencing the struggles of those who most urgently need a voice... Enter TH16, in which Okina Matara, goddess of outcasts, incites an Incident, partially in order to just remind the world that "Hey, I am still here, you know. Even though you don't hear from me very often, I still exist." and also to send a message to her fellow sages and make them talk about her again.
@@GrahamChapman I just wish he'd stuck to the idea of making her wheelchair-bound.
@@TheDevNell Me, too. But at the same time I also respect his decision to hold off on that since he felt uncomfortable about portraying a handicapped person with no frame of reference in regards to what being handicapped is like. Also, like he mentioned in some interview a while later; having you beat up a woman in a wheelchair who just wanted people to stop ignoring her did not feel right after the Sagamihara massacre. Still, I'm glad he decided to go for his original idea in Visionary Fairies in Shrine... Now, if we could only get another title in the HM line of fighting games with Okina as a playable character so we can have a game with all three sages playable, that would just be plain sweeeet~
That fifth season would be perfect for shooing away Koishi, who always seems to be _behind you_ ...
ah yes, the koishi-b-gone
@@Niiue Can i buy it for only $[number]?
@@CHESTER_MUSICMAN 2 quid
I know this is a joke about HM but it would genuinely be helpful for that stupid DNA attack in her original fight.
I adore Marisa and Okina's interactions. They're so fun. Mostly, it highlights a lot of what makes Marisa great. She picked up on Okina's abilities in one round, and not only managed to replicate it, but put her own spin on the magic to negate Okina's advantage. It's such a great showing of how clever and resourceful Marisa can be.
Okina herself is also great in the extra stages. She's intense and dismissive of the protagonists in the Stage 6 dialogue, but with the extra stage she shows a lot of different things. Reimu's stage she's really flippant and kind of goofing off, and Cirno's she's just confused. But with Marisa, she openly acknowledges Marisa's abilities and has that great banter about showing off their strength to others. Aya's dialogue is probably my favorite of the bunch though, because it highlights what I feel is a big difference between her and Yukari. When Aya wins, she initially depreciates the win, saying she was only able to do so with a massive handicap. Instead of pushing that angle, Okina actively builds Aya up, saying that she decided to fight without seasonal powers in recognition of Aya's courage, and that the win is completely valid and Aya should feel proud. It feels very different to me from how Yukari approaches others, especially with AoCF where Yukari...actively sabotages Miko and Byakuren so that she alone can be seen resolving the incident. Okina's definitely self-important, but she strikes me as someone who cares a lot less about appearances, at least in the sense of having to be in complete control. She's commanding and on top of things, but she still builds people up in an active way. I really love Okina's character, and I really hope we see more of her.
Of course Okina wouldn't care about appearances, she's a _hidden_ god :P
Based take
And here lies the only extra stage I currently have beaten.
I hear a lot of people complain about Okina's fight being easy or her character in general, and while I totally understand why people feel that way, she has a special place in my heart since HSiFS was one of my first Touhou games, and the first one that I beat -on easy-
Feel no shame of playing on easy, my dude! We all have to start somewhere :D
Well, at least, by the sound of it, you didn't force yourself to beat the games (unlike a little someone I like to refer to as "Me"...)
@@AOGood Wow, thanks for the positivity man!
Can I just say... how I absolutely love this extra stage? It is on the easier side, to the point where even if you're a Touhou noob like me you can still 1cc.
But I do wish ZUN tried more risque and unique approach to level design like he tried there, unique subshot, boss returning as exboss (first time since MS), overall, this is very much a highlight of Windows era to me, even if I know a lot people will disagree with me.
Cue the obvious "Reimu is broken in Extra!" and "Use C button to skip most of the danger!"
Tl;dr at bottom.
Marisa is definitely the best character in this game. Or rather, the most impressive, and I'm talking storywise rather than gameplay wise.
In taking on Okina the second time it was obvious to all but Cirno that going back the exact same way would yield the exact same result. Thus, a change was made.
-On Reimu's end, she obviously got assistance from Yukari. While Reimu definitely has recieved guidance from Yukari in using borders and gaps, she doesn't really have access to boundaries like Yukari does.
-Cirno simply chose the right back door to go through; that is, Eternity's. If Eternity is the Tokoyo no Kami like Okina says, then the fact that Eternity's power would be of the Tokoyo no Kuni would make sense in changing Cirno's power to doyou, what with the Tokoyo no Kuni being a land of invariance and immortality in sharp contrast to the passing of time that the seasons symbolize (I'm thinking too hard on this one lol)
-Aya, being the old ass youkai she is, simply uses her own power to change her attacks' nature, which admittedly isn't as impressive since we all know Aya is particularly strong and skillef as far as youkai go in general (contrary to her behavior).
-Marisa likewise does the same thing after speaking with Narumi and proceeding through the door on her back. I'm probably making too big a deal out of this too but whereas our other three protagonist either got special aid or were special themselves, Marisa simply worked out the solution and put get own magic toward the solution, which I love.
Tl;dr Marisa is great.
Well, that _is_ pretty much Marisa's schtick: She doesn't have über haxorz contacts or inherent talent like Reimu, she doesn't have the superhuman powers of youkai like Aya does, she doesn't have Cirno's... whatever it is that makes Cirno special... An attunement with nature that instinctively leads her right? An unwavering spirit accompanied with immortality that allows her to try, try and try again until she either succeeds or grows bored? The unfailing rotten luck of a complete idiot? Regardless, Marisa doesn't have it: Within the Touhou Project, she's the underdog getting by on nothing but pluck and hard work. And booze.
@@GrahamChapman Cirno is the Dark Souls protagonist in a non-grimdark universe
@@nikodemossowski4621 That's a pretty apt comparison actually. I mean, she's actually way weaker than any boss she runs into but still manages to get by on sheer tenacity, stubbornness and an inability to permanently die (meaning the only way she'll lose is if she gives up)... and I guess that would literally make Ebisu Eika the Orphan of Kos, wouldn't it? ...damn, now I want a Touhou/FromSoft fangame...
This Extra Stage has got to be the easiest one so far in the entire series. Reimu's homing shots combined with the Doyou season release absolutely breaks the stage.
I personally cleared the Extra Stage before 1cc-ing Normal
BTW At 14:08 Alternatively you can use a glitch in the game. If you use a season released during the Spell Card, Okina will gain a health bar, and the Spell Card will end if her health reach zero. And you don't have to survive for the original intended time. You can thank me later.
Note that doyou is called the border between seasons, the implication being that you've gotten help from Yukari
That answer work only with Reimu and Marisa, 'cause Cirno got the power from Larva, due to her being (maybe) a Tokyo (I don't remember the name) god and all... But then there's Aya... Like, How dos she do it? 'Cause like, I don't think it would for her character, maybe...
@@AOGood Isn't it Tokoyo?
I had always interpreted Marisa and Aya's acquisition of the power of doyou was through their own abilities. Okina's powers are implied to be related to magic, so it would make sense that Marisa could understand the mechanics behind it and make her own spin on it if she needed. Absolutely no idea how Aya pulled it off. Maybe something to do with tengu being opposed to Okina means they have some inherent access to her weakness? No idea.
More than that, it's implied that they've _learnt_ from Yukari. Reimu moreso has been steadily learning more and more to do border-control shenanigans, to the point in this game she straight up pulls this border-between-seasons plan, while in the fighting games she has the abilities she has.
@@youdonotcare I think so, yeah... I'm kinda bad with japanese names... ^_^'
A cleared extra stage, no bomb, and no release (And without choosing Reimu). Impressive.
"Outside the Traditional World" is the first entry on the fangame poll.
You know your fans too well~
This is one of the best extra stages in years!! This is right up there with Raiko and Yukari :)
HSiFS is one of my favorite in the series, despite its easy difficulty. It's easy to compare it to Super Mario 3D world (what a strange analogy), it's quite easy, but makes up for it with some very creative stages, wonderful music, and a Great atmosphere!!
Good luck with VD, it's nasty (AND GET PREPARED FOR NIGHTMARE DIARY TO NEVER LEAVE YOUR HEAD)
I wanted you to play "Fantastic Danmaku Festival" but it's not in the poll. So I guess I'll settle for "Tri Focuser"
2:50 I like how perfectly the ost aligned with their next spellcard xD
I just want to say that this EX Stage was probably not done with Reimu in mind: she absolutely demolishes this is a way it's not even funny (or should I say it's completely hilarious, given I only ever cleared this as Reimu anyways).
As for the stage itself, I really like the back-shot gimmick. My favorite release spot is the wave of orbs right before Okina, just stay in the middle and release when they come. I also really like Mai/Satono as midbosses, they have fun spells, but I still feel scared of Twin Typhoons because I never bothered with their amulets in the main game so I just bomb that card.
Okina is really fun. I remember taking time to learn almost all her spells (my favorite being Danmaku Dupion), but it's a sad thing that her Survival card has a bug with the release system in that you can release and she'll gain a health bar (and you can, in fact, finish her off to end it early). I also love that Marisa considered taking the job~ same with Cirno, though in her scenario Okina just says she'll wait because they have all the time in the world. And I like that Aya's Extra was solely because she wanted an interview.
Oh boy I spy EBF: Bullet Heaven in that poll. Good times. There's so many I want to see you play there. I hope to have the patience.
You finally caught up and that's great. I'm excited to see some Violet Detector since this really is the only official Touhou game I've yet to play since the public computers blocked the good download and torrent sites. Not feeling up to searching for obscure mirrors without running to pop-ups and viruses.
I'm just really happy to at least watch others play.
Well, I'm with you Marisa, finally can lay the game to rest having seeing the good ending.
Thanks, tbh I've been waiting for your playthrough of this stage ever since HSiFS was released, and never really spoiled the ending for myself until now. I tried playing through Extra a few times, barely made it to Okina usually. I'm just not very good at this game, and probably will never be, and not being able to see the ending for myself had gnawed on my conscience for the longest time xD
Interesting choices for the fangames polls. Wonder how many will choose either DonPachi or Ikaruga?
Using season release you can completely trivialise some of the attacks.
The waves of enemies that spawn in the centre from 2:05 can all be immediately killed without any of them firing a single bullet by releasing above the spot where they spawn. The point to sit is in the centre in line between the power and graze icons on the UI. There's zero risk and you get far more points doing it this way, ending the section with double the points you normally would have, almost enough to get your first extend.
The waves of enemies that spawn from 4:30 can be dealt with entirely by just staying in the middle as they spawn. When the wave of bullets is about to hit you, use a release then move up as the enemies themselves converge on your location, killing them and point of collecting. This will get you a lot of PIV and you'll regain your release from the amount of bullets cancelled.
In Okina's spellcard "Secret Ceremony 'Performers Unattached to Society" at 13:24 follow above Okina to one side, then after she starts returning to the other side move down into the corner she vacates and use a season release to cancel the bottom bullets before they disperse upwards. Then just hang in that corner until Okina heads back. By doing this you don't have to dodge any of the upward moving projectiles and only need dodge the very slowly moving downward ones.
[1:11] *You stole my joke. How?!*
I was actually going to joke about the indoors being the "border between seasons."
But I suppose a good substitute for that would be the equator?
After all, the further north you are, the more drastic seasons become, right? I think?
Update: I've successfully gotten my revenge on Bee by doing that one thing I said I was capable of doing a while ago.
Edit 2: No ending music for your final thoughts? How *unnatural.*
Ever heard of Marisa B's earth shot in touhou 11 ?
Yup, but it was crap...
Like, you barely had a reason to use it (maybe at Okuu's final spell) and it was weaker compared to the fire one...
Although it was fun playing with, unique shot mechanics are fun after all! ^_^
@@AOGood No it's actually really powerful, it could be used at Orin's opener and final spell for example.
@@Bravidunno Oh really??? Eh, I mean, to be fair I only used it against Okuu's final spell, and it didn't go so well. Add that to my macroscopic hatred towards SA (Heck, it's the only game where I didn't beat the Extra Stage with both characters...) and you've got yourself some repressed memories... :P
Anyway, I'll be sure to keep that in mind when my inevitable return to SA's hard mode comes...
Thanks for the advice! :D
20:36 Oh, well you're the one to talk, Ms. “Want to Rematch a God because I Lost.”
Marisa just pulling a proper JoJo move for round two I see.
Butt shot Is at least less ridiculous than Butt Control amirite.
Is it bad that I see Okina's survival as 90 seconds of "BUTT LASAHS!!!"? Like she's just going "Wheeeee! Ah, I missed... Let's go again...! WHEEEEEEEE!!!"
Reimu’s homing amulets makes this a piece of cake
Aw, I was kinda hoping part of the "catching up with ZUN plan" involved replaying some of the main games in Lunatic. Sadness.
That's why I put "Touhou 2 Hard Mode" as an option on the poll. That way people have the option if they don't want to see me keep playing fangames, they can vote for me to replay everything I've done prior, but on a harder difficulty.
@@MegamanOmega184 I guess, but you could have made that clearer. Besides, I would like to see Lunatic playthrougs, but I guess not very soon.
Hey, at least ya didn't play this stage with Motherflipping Reimu, 'cause HOLY BANANA BAGELS she breaks this stage in half! Why? Two words: Homing Shots.
Heck, the stage gets so easy that I'm close to a NMNBNR run! And if there's a thing that doesn't match with me, is perfect runs!
Because That's ChEaTiNg
@ Nah, cheating would be releasing during the survival spell just to expose her health bar...
I'll admit, though, until I discovered that was a glitch I used it all the time :P
I like a few of the selections, so I just chose one.
4:32 releasing at the right time can also take down the enemies
I'm voting for The Shattered Sky so that we can get it done, and so that we can immediatly do Servants of Harvest Wish once that game comes out.
The only reason im voting The Alternative Age is because of some funny dialogue between marisa and the extra boss when defeated
Okay... That fifth sub-season looks like a cross between a winter sub-season and a spring sub-season. A winter cherry blossom?
That looks like a winter cherry blossom right?
Out of curiosity Mega, will you be playing "The disappearing of gensokyo" in the future? Also what happened to Fantastic Danmaku festival? I was sure I saw it on a previous poll but it isnt there any more.
14:16
if you release here, okina gains a hitbox and you can kill her!
Even if you don't, you can release to completely ignore the laser. This spell gets busted by releases.
4:30 get to the center and press c to destroy all yin yang orbs
now with touhou main games over , i must ask.
What do you think about ZUN sacrificing a extra boss character to just show the extreme power of Okina and how he has been focusing in Story more recently ?
Very interesting, though do keep in mind he didn't put Okina like this to "sacrifice an Extra boss to show off her extreme power" rather this was the alternate to his original plan. Originally he was going to have an Imperishable Night type deal where you unlocked the fifth season sub-season by beating the game once, then play the game again with it to unlock the Extra Stage (having a Stage 6a and Stage 6b again). Then he'd have a unique character for the Extra stage.
Though he decided against that (and a few other ideas as well, like having to beat the game with every sub-season to unlock the Extra) cause it was too tedious. Ultimately showing off Okina like this was less of a story focused reason and more of his traditional "I just wanted to do something different to surprise people" reasoning.
At the same time though, I do like the story significance her and others have gotten. Too often characters get introduced in a game and then are completely forgotten to the wayside after the fact (take for example out of the entire LoLK cast only Doremy, Clownpiece and a couple Hecatia cameos have really appeared in anything after the game). Come this game however it's the opposite with Nemuno and the dancer pair being the only ones who _haven't_ appeared after the game (Eternity made a bunch of appearances in VFiS, Aunn is shown as a regular in Reimu's shrine in WaHH, the recent chapter of CoLA had a big part of it dedicated to Narumi and Okina making appearances in WaHH). It's going to be interesting to see what IS does with these things going forward. Especially with more info on Kasen coming forwad plus Okina being who she is, I'm interested to se what IS does now that he's bringing the "Sages that created Gensokyo" to the surface.
@@MegamanOmega184 this may sound awkward but that 5th sub season looks like a cross between a winter sub-season and a spring sub-season. Isn't that the winter cherry blossom sub season? Cause I think it looks like one to me
@@josephayala5727 Looks a bit like it what with it being pink and all. I just only mentioned winter and summer cause mechanically it acts like a mix between the two
@@MegamanOmega184 what do you mean?
@@MegamanOmega184 a cross between a winter sub-season and a summer sub season... that would be a winter sunflower right?
In the manga, didn't they say something like she was warning all of the youkai or something, or was that just the Tengu? Can't wait to hear your first impressions.
Thanos got out of her chair
you should have gone for the head
@@Iris_Descent Can't, her forehead is glorious. And I'm loving it.
2:37 Ahhh yes, I see... going Reimu was a bad idea here ":D
You gotta properly utilize release!!!
4:39 The fact that you survived that but died at something so open Is questionable :u
5:30 She Is shredding sweat. I guess she was lying about that :0
7:10 [the so Infamous doyou :/] Does that mean It's new season... season?
19:13 Make them human. So what are they right now, dancing deities? :/
19:48 better question Is If she even knows what that means ;y
19:51 [Rinnosikue? xD]
21:58 That final stock up tho -_-''
Wow that list of fan games
unfortunately for me, tricky spots are death for me and i barely completed this on normal T_T
How to beat this Extra Stage: Reimu
The End (like srsly, just pick Reimu and thats it, then follow the patterns ans stuff, no more tricks, just that, unlike Marisa)
4:32 saty in the middle, wait until the bullets reach you enough to make a good graze, C, then do the same qith the ying yang, and repeat with the other ones, dont worry about the 2nd fire, you would get more with Okina, im talking srsly
14:10 as always, there is at least 1 trick in an Extra Stage, C her abd she will gain her hitbox again, since you can shoot backwards just try to shoot the shit out of her as long as you can before the lazer appears, you can actually end the spell before the lazer appears with Reimu, *YOU HEARED THAT OMEGA?! REIMU IS OP TOO YOU KNOW?!*
Blonde magician vs standing Blonde
Touhou 16.5 violet Detector
This is such a weird Extra boss battle. Some cards are so easy it makes you wonder "why is this in an Extra?" and in others it feels near impossible without releases.
That survival has to be the worst one though. Easily the most embarrassing timeout card I've seen in the entire series. Even worse when you can literally glitch Okina's lifebar in with your season release, making it just downright pointless.
How about your release schedule for VD? I am not sure you want to spend 22 weeks especially since there are days where there are only one scene.
I'm going to be doing twice a week videos like StB, DS and SCC with each video covering a single day-ish. Some videos however will have 2 days in them though cause yes, as you say some of those days have just literally once scene in them (and being a story scene no less, so it's not really a challenge either).
They almost always act like a "prologue" to what the next day is gonna throw at you, so it makes sense to mix those with an actual full day of spells.
@@MegamanOmega184 By the way, are you going to use the patch to change a certain command from double shift to c button? I can imagine how double shift will break your fingers and patience.
@@ricokurniawan5636
Nope, since I was doing first impressions and wanted to avoid any potential spoilers for "hard spells to look out for" I did my recordings long before any of that came out. I did it shortly after I finished playing Len'en 4 and pretty much the same week the VD english patch came out.
@@MegamanOmega184 So you did that without the patch, impressive.
Rematch hmhm
9:47 what did you die to?
I accidentally got too close to Okina herself and ran into her own hitbox.
Excuse me here but, *DO THE EXTRA STAGE WITH REIMU* , with Reimu its WAAAAAY more faster and easier, SHE IS BROKEN, this stage is NOTHING with Reimu, its even more faster than do it with Cirn9 bc eyem te stongest, or even Marisa, srry Omega, i had to say it, Marisa failed you this time UnU
2:04 there is a easier yet risky way to do it, stay a little up, but not in the part where you auto collect, more like where the firsg Yinyangs appear, now, when you literally see the YinYangs approach RELEASE, then do it with all the other waves and continue the level
I don't like this extra stage...i think that is easy compared to other stages like EoSD and PCB or DDC. The boss really don't do very dificult spell cards. Don't kill me for saying that
Nah, you're not wrong (I mentioned in my closing thoughts this game is quite easy like IN and TD). However I think it's important that ZUN does this every now and then for the health of the series. People getting into Touhou need easier than average games to start with and this is definitly one of those easier games.
Similarly if ZUN _only_ tried making hard games the series would either become aggravating (imagine if ZUN tried designing UFO to be harder than SA. And then TD harder than that UFO, and then DDC even harder than _that_) or just get stale once you hit the plateau of "this game can't get any harder without being unfun" (I feel the Donpachi series hit that point of trying to be harder and harder with each passing game until they hit a wall as opposed to making a sequel a bit easier than the last).
So I think it's ultimately good that Touhou games seem to "reset their difficulty" every few games to help the longevity of the series. After ZUN releases a really hard game he tends to follow it up with a fairly easy one. Then make the next game a bit harder, then a bit harder, then a bit harder before reaching a peak and resetting again.
@@MegamanOmega184 you mean that touhou needs at least one or two easy games to refresh the series? If thats the case im ok with that
@@patchouliknowledge127 Well, the game before this one _did_ introduce us to Clownpiece, so I dunno if I would've felt good about TH16 being another ragefest. I'd say a brutal game flanked by one or two reasonably easy ones is a good system... that said, I kinda felt that he did Okina a disservice by making this a very easy title in the series. I mean, she _is_ supposed to be one of the sages, and though we did get to see quite a bit of her, thanks to her being both the final and bonus stage boss, I still feel a Yukari-level fight would've been nice... especially that survival card was just plain silly...
Lately I've been feeling like ZUN's danmaku patters have been slipping, like he's running out of inspiration. Back in the earlier days of the Touhou Project, he had more variety in the bullet types and gimmicks used by the bosses. Compare to the latest games where we've had Junko, whose "gimmick" was basic circles of bullets, and Okina, whose first gimmick was seasons (changing the background _was_ a pretty nice touch) + stealing your powers and then... uhm... did she even have an Extra stage gimmick? See, this is what I'm talking about: I don't think Okina _had_ a gimmick in the Extra stage. And, no, shooting bullets from behind you doesn't count. Seija did that first, she did it for her regular patterns, and she did it way better than Okina to boot... So lately I've been feeling like yu-ke has been overtaking ZUN and greatly improving upon his patterns and gimmicks. And that's kinda sad, because the stuff yu-ke pulls off, like Ringo skewering her dango danmaku and having a hunger meter, is the kinda stuff that ZUN from back in the days very well could've implemented.