Bonding Flange Drain Comparison --- Schluter, Laticrete, and FLO-FX for Tiled Shower Pans
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- Опубликовано: 10 мар 2021
- New style drains for tile shower floors and shower pans do not require a pre-slope and traditional 40 mil pvc pan liner. Instead, they incorporate a “bonding flange” to directly attach a bonded membrane like Schluter Kerdi or a liquid waterproofing like redgard or hydro ban. The benefit of using these drains is that the waterproofing is directly under the tile instead of a mortar bed or dry pack that constantly gets saturated with water. These systems are prone to issues because often times the weep holes get clogged and cause efflorescence, cracked grout, moldy silicone, and other unsightly and unsanitary problems.
In this video, I compare the most popular drain - the Schluter Kerdi bonding flange drain kit and grate - with a new one that I really like. The flo fx drain has improved on many of the design flaws of the schluter Kerdi drain and the hydro ban bonding flange.
Tiled showers are beautiful, durable, and clean if they are done properly. This video goes into detail how the drains are installed correctly, and what the differences are between them and the old traditional style drains.
For the video showing the failed kerdi bonding flange: • I Tiled this 2 Year Ol... .
For video on how pre-slope works: • PROOF that Pre-Slope W...
For video on clogged weep holes: • SHOWER TILE REPAIR - S...
To support our channel and purchase merchandise please go to www.tilecoach.com/shop
To contact me or to see one of our coaching plans, go to www.tilecoach.com/
To purchase a Flo Fx drain system, please visit www.tilecoach.com/shop
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I'd imagine the white stuff came off the kerdi collar when you tore everything out.
Exactly there is no way it just "emulsified in water lmao.
@@davidsteyer4925 doesn't seem like something he would miss. That fabric is thinset into that flange with tile set to it. Naturally when you pull the tile out, that white part can definitely separate. I believe he needs to rethink this one but I like his videos.
@@mattjudy6780 Nah man its happened on the only two I've torn out. One was installed by me, and one was on the this video ruclips.net/video/tOcYK1npnpc/видео.html. I'll time stamp it so you can go right to where it shows the fleece completely removed from the flange and it didn't tear off. Before I tore it out, evidence of leaking from below the drain was noticed (efflorescence)
@@TileCoach ok ill check it out when I get a little time tonight
@@TileCoach I watched the video. I always roll a liquid membrane over my kerdi systems anyway. The pan and up to about chest hugh on time of kerdi board/banding
My Company has been using Laticrete products for our shower installs for the past 10 years. Zero issues so far. Used Schluter before but dislike the un modified mortar requirements. Very happy with all Laticrete product. Thank you for all of your great Videos
Their allset is modified
Gotta love an installer paying attention to counter sinking screw heads, 2 thumbs up, great video review,,, by an experienced professional !!
I used to be a hot mop guy
After finding your class I have switched to the flo Fx and the latacrete sheet membrane and the hydro ban roll on water proofing. I sleep much better now.
Thanks Isaac for improving my workmanship
Really awesome. Solves many potential problems. I would definitely want the Flo FX in my home.
Love the info, the length of your video was not to long I really dig watching and learning from you.. THANK YOU.!
I hope there’s more innovation like this on all builder materials. Thanks.
I used the liner, then another mud bed sloped. The drain I used looks very similar to the regular drain you showed, sorta wished I had used a pre sloped set up but my bed is custom, sorta triangular style bed. Learned alot from your channel. Thank you for the content
I'm going to have to get one of these drains from Chase! Love the adaptors and custom drain that was made for you Isaac!
Thank you so much for the love and passion you share in this trade. We have a stone countertops shop in Yuba City ca and starting to do tile slowly. I love it, but most of all i love understanding the best most efficient ways to work. One day ill come by to visit your showroom 😃👍
So glad I watched this before I got to remodeling my shower. Definitely a no-brainer, and I will be buying from your site when the time comes. Great video.
You are the senior master of this art. Lots of decent tile videos on YT, however you are the best of the best.
I just built my first shower as a diy job. Your videos were helpful. I used the TiLite system for my pan, drain, walls and ceiling. Would love to have you review that system to get your thoughts.
great video i getn ready to do another shower. glad i saw the flofx. i never understood why the schluter was so expensive.
I really like your style dude, great channel and one of the most informative. I love how you explain what you're doing-- I can't stand youtubers that only film them selves working and then play music and never say a word--its useless. so thanks! I have always just called the hot mop guy to do my shower pans----because homeowner installed shower pans are the number 1 failure in home remodeling. im really warming up the the newer systems however......thanks for doing this video!
That FlowFX spacer - I totally see myself 3D printing the exact height I needed :)
18:32 sending love to @Tile Coach for sharing the adapter information from the 3 piece to the FLO-FX was very informative and should be very helpful. Love your energy and learning from your experience. Sending you my thanks and will continue to support you! Cheers
The FLO FX seems like a superior drain compared to the others mentioned. Would love to see some installs with that drain.
they are
Have 2 bathrooms will be starting this month, one being my own personal remodel, fun fun😉. Will definitely give the Flo FX drains a try, as they do look “the best of both worlds” when comes to the “issues” with other brands that we all kinda “dislike”😏
Thx for sharing✌🏻
Been doing tile for 24 years, have always done pre-slope with liner using fish tank gravel around weep holes without an issue ever that I know about. I did two schluter systems with the foam floor and one of them failed. The fleece delaminated from the foam on the pan. Doing a master bath right now, just latex the ditra heat and I’m going to try the schluter drain with no pre-slope on this shower for the 1st time. Just starting watching your videos and I appreciate them, thank you! I may put up a few videos in future myself.
Schluter makes a three piece drain adapter but it leaves you 2 1/2" of substrate witch means more mud mix. You sold me on this, can't wait to install. I'm kind of a drain guy also.
This review is exactly what I have been needing to see done. Thank you.
Fantastic video. Really helped clear up some questions I had. Going to get a FLO effects flange!!
Your channel has a important mission to the entire world. Thanks for your service!!
Short answer: I have used the old drain system, and i think i will still to use that here at Florida. Unfortely
Bc i have no big rich clients, also, the economy inflation is high now, interest rates going high... So that kind of materials increse pretty much my quotes. although i do my best doing plumbing and tile services, i spend all my efforts to do the best, but it is still hard around here. Even i am not thinking to get my licenses, bc i realy dont know if it really works here without a good GC at business's front. But we are growing slowly, thank god!
I will be converting one of my bathroom from tub to walk in shower; I been researching for a good while now on the best route to go and the Flo Fx is the best so fare, I will be purchasing one in a few weeks. Thanks for all the great tutorials.
Love the videos mate, I'm always learning 👍
Very informative and excellent tutorial video. Thanks again for posting. Watched it three times now.
Been using schluter for years but bought my first FloFX. We’ll be installing to tomorrow with deck mud and Kerdi membrane.
Totally geeked out on this. Love it. Cant wait to try it out
Ordered the Flo fx drain from your website. It came in 3 days!! Thank you
I've installed more than 2000 mud showers and have been using Schluter Kerdi for the last couple hundred of them and that system works well.
I used my first Laticrete BF Drain and hydro ban membrane on account of wanting to support American made products. The customer bought white mosaic 2x2 for the shower floor and when I went to install the floor... the tile was 1\8" thick and I did not know that the Laticrete BF Drains require a minimum tile thickness of 1\4" and I would say probabbly minimum 3/8 to maintain the proper slope and a 1\16" clearance height above the grate. Had to go get a thicker tile and cut 12x24 porcelian down to 2x2 to make it work. It cost me an extra day + of wasted time because Laticrete doesnt mention this requirement in their literature or instructions but does mention it in the product video. So hopefully this info can save someone else the time before they find out the hard way. USE THICK TILE with Hydroban Bonding Flange drains.
Use more mud 🤣🤣🤣
I’m banging out kerdi system showers in Tucson Arizona! I love using the whole line of products. I also like the hydraban version of ditra. Bonded flange systems for the win!!
I feel like Kerdi fix on that laticrete flange would make me feel better than thinset. Thanks for the awesome video!
Thanks coach! Never consider the drain flage is so important for the tiled shower. I am in the proess of remodeling the MB and was palnning to use Schluter system. After this video, I am going with floor-fx round one you fetured in following video
It’s about time for FX drains!!! From a tile brother at that! and supporting local 🇺🇸
Thanks Chip!
The FloFX looks interesting. I'll have to try it out on a couple jobs. I like the price too, and that it comes with a grate, and the grates actually have many style options. And who doesn't love supporting an entrepreneur trying to come out with an innovative product? Definitely worth a shot.
I'm curious if that means you can use schluter grates with the flo fx with that adapter?? Because schluter offers more metal colors, not just different cut out shapes.
I used the USG Durock flange that combines all the best features of the other flanges. They use a self adjusting locking collar (non-screw) type.
Answered what I needed to know and what or which one to order, FloFx!
I think the best part about the flo drain is the schluter adapter for the grate you showed at the end of the video.
Definitely good for guys who like Schluter pans and our grates!
Ive used both types of drains using the Redgard liquid membrane system and feel both do an adequate job given proper installation.
When using the conventional 3 piece drain i form a basin in my slope bed about 1" deep and about 10" to 12" in diameter around the drain flange in the floor which i thoroughly coat with Redgard atleast 1/16" thick prior to installing the drain flange.
Once its dry i apply a heavy coat to seal the flange down and install it.
I make sure the bottom flange is recessed slightly to accommodate the height of the clamp ring so that its even with the lowest surface of the slope bed within the basin.
Using the liquid membrane system precludes the need for the clamp ring but i usually use it anyway depending on how its made. Some have open holes where the clamp ring bolts go while other do not.
I install accordingly.
I then cover the drain flange with a 12" to 16" diameter piece of fiberglass mesh cloth or multiple overlapping strips of fiberglass mesh tape to reinforce that critical area.
Then I coat the top surface of the drain flange with Redgard making a smooth downhill watertight juncture between the slope bed and drain inlet and i usually enlarge the weep holes and make sure i dont block any with the liquid membrane. Sometimes i grind the drain inlet groove in the threads slightly to enlarge those weep inlets too.
Some have inadequate weeping capacity imo. I want any water that makes it past the tile to drain as fast and as thoroughly as possible so i maximize the slope and the weep holes.
Once ive completed the membrane application and leakdown test i fill the basin with pea gravel or broken tile pieces no larger than 3/4" and lay my tile.
The adjustable drain inlet can be raised or lowered to get a perfect fit with the tile.
I make sure the metal grate or strainer is just lower than the surrounding tile work by 1/32" or so with a nice smooth transition.
Ive never had an issue with the 3 piece drain other than very limited grate styles and finishes.
They work well with my system though.
When using bonding flange drains the process is identical.
I just use the size of the flange to determine the size of the basin, install it and Redgard it in.
Easy peasy.
I just spend extra time insuring the weep system is functional.
Great video! I been setting for 26 yrs, I have over 600 full schluter shower installs under my belt. One thing I've always done around the kerdi drain is use kerdi fix within the last 1/2 of the kerdi. That keeps water from getting up under the drain.
He has a video showing how water can get in the fleece on the kerdi and get past kerdi fix tho 🤷🏻♂️ and i have probably a few hundred full schluter showers in myself, so to say i wasn’t happy finding that out was an understatement
Watched the video and ordered a flo fx immediately in your online store. The best was the checkout with apple pay - nothing else to enter, no address, nothing - just click ‘buy’ - what a breeze! Congratulations for this perfect set-up.
That is what we need more of, high quality products like this Flo-FX drain, made in the USA, not China. Great video!
I like the schluter drain system. Now that I've seen Flo, I'll likely give it a try.
At 9:45 the ring you pulled off the LATICRETE drain is a bushing to use it with 3" pipe. Nice comparison.
Well it settled it for me.Pretty easy to see difference in quality
I did tell them to thank you when I ordered the fx setup
Thanks for the info👍🏻
I really like the old school sistem pan liner. Is still the best way to doit in my opinion. I like your chanel by the way. 👍🏻 thanks
Great videos you put out I wish you were in Massachusetts so you can be doing both of my bathrooms
Great video , definitely gonna try out the FX DRAIN
I'm using hydroban liquid membrane, with the fabric at all floor and wall transitions and 4 strips around the drain, even though it's not need, but for my confidence in the method.
Yes I re-drill the counter sink screw holes.
Thank you for the videos
That seems ultra reliable.
love that drain!!! I will be a new customer
Thanks for sharing the knowledge with us.
Another great vid. Thank you TC!
FloFx is definitely a game changer and my drain of choice 👍🏼
Thanks for the comment Joe!
We still do the 3 piece drains with pre slope, liner and pan. Really like the fail safe of the shower pan liner.
Awesome video, some of us are still doing pan liners here in south Texas, so seeing that you can adapt this directly to a 3 piece drain is pretty awesome. Will help me get my feet wet on installing these newer bond flanges.
That's what I'm saying. I'm the only person I know doing old school deck mud pan around me. Like that I can Frankenstein this!
Just hotmop it, its a 20 year + product that can waterproof any shape shower, in 3 hours or less. And do you really not want a nice thick mortar bed for the base below your shower? Its idiot installers not putting gravel around the base of the drain to keep the weep holes open. Hot Mop will never go away, its the preferred method for experienced tile contractors. That is not the Tile Coach
I'm just north of Victoria, and it's great to hear somebody local comment on the Coach's info!
@@kellyross4801 Im in Corpus Christi. Love his videos, always trying to keep up to date with newer methods to help my boss do things better. Not too many people down here that you can trust with a good installation.
@@Aaron86v Yes, that's why I am looking at the diy. When I have asked about other things, noted that in other places things are done following a code, I hear, Whaddya wanna waste yer money like that fer? 🤦
gonna be using the flo drain when i redo my master shower. cool video
Ive found the schluter to be the easiest install with the least issues as ive had to build up the floor to make the tile flush with the laticrete drain grate. I use the schluter bases that are already covered with the Kerdi and have the circle of membrane that covers the drain to base transition. I rarely use the Kerdi membrane at all anymore preferring the speed and benefit of wet shimming using the Keri board walls. This just leaves the Keri band at the floor to wall transition and any seams and screws heads followed by the corners. It solves the build up you get using membrane plus band and corners. The cost is slightly higher this way but the time and problems it saves make it my go to shower system. Ive not had the issue yet with the drain not bonding well and have never screwed one down simply mud it and twist it in firmly to where the anchoring legs have mortar oozing through then I set a bucket of water on it overnight. I make the connections during this time as well so I don't have to be pushing against flange as the mortar is curing. Haven't seen the Flo-fx in my area yet but would like to try it at some point. Really enjoy your content btw and your honesty and integrity you bring to the table. Not many would be so upfront if they had a job fail and many would be blaming everything and anything else and take zero accountability. Even the best contractors will have issues come up but its how they are dealt with that either creates a loyal customer for life or a lawsuit and some social media negativity. Do you currently use any comparable yet more cost effective solutions for the ditra heat? We have harsh winters and the majority of my estimates want to see the cost to add heat which ends up adding a bunch of wasted time going through the materials each job will require with maybe 10% at most actually willing to spend the considerable extra money to add it. Thanks in advance!!!!
Ditra heat isn't that expensive when you explain the benefits. It will dry out the shower immediately
Exceptional video!!! Thank you. 🙏
Suggestion, do a mock-up "stick" test there in the shop with the Laticrete flange, H ban half and thin-set only on the other half see how the membrane sticks.. make sure to leave some extra membrane to pull on.
Another thoughtful video, thank you!
Just had to cut out a standard drain that had just been installed to put in the schluter drain. Wish I had seen this video last week. Would have saved me a day. Gonna have to check out the flo....
Nice drain. Maybe I'll buy one and hang it on my wall as decoration. 👍
I may have 1 or 2 hanging up!
That new drain is really cool.
Whether or not the Kerdi messed up or not, the Flo-FX is clearly a better design all around. I think you hit on all the points as to why it's better too. You should just throw all three in a bucket and let them sit for a year and check them periodically. It's an easy test that wouldn't take up much space or use much of your time.
Great video as always!
I prefer the 2 float system because it's thicker and stronger but I use red guard instead of traditional style pan liner have never had a single issue in 10 years of shower installations.
just what I need, and perfect timing
I had that problem with the felt deteriorating on a schluter drain in my personal home. Tile was coming loose around the drain. Shower was built in 2018, before I bought the house. Pulled the tile until I reached dry material, scraped off the felt and reinstalled with a patch of new kerdi. So far it's ok but eventually I'm going to have to do a whole new bed
nice video thank you. I will be buying the FLO-FX from you soon
FLO FX! Love it!
Scratch coat , brown coat walls, dry pack shower pan , float curb, my first shower that I floated in 1980 is still standing and zero leaks !! All this new technology is a joke !! These companies are getting rich on all this stuff !! Please show more old school videos !! I’m a 61 year old Southern California trained Tile setter !!! Thanks for all that you Do !!
I'm ready to buy some fx drains!
I'm building two showers atm with hydro-ban drains and was instructed to coat the top of bonding flange with their liquid sealant , and top and bottom of drain flange , then you can you can thin-set them together to achieve the drain height , cheers
Great video. Can you do a trench drain comparison
This is soo informative. Great job on the video. There is a cool tool like a fixed ridge reamer to cut out old PVC drains for rework jobs. Have not seen one for outside cut but most jobs require to remove an inside fit anyway. I have to ask with a loose fit when drain backs up where dose the water go?
Wedi or Schluter installed for depot for 5 years and it was always Kerdi and they sell basics for Schluter
Bonding flange all day over here. Usually schluter. I still use a divot occasionally when there’s a 3 part drain when we get to the job.....but I just picked up a FloFX last week. Was pleased it comes with an adapter!
You never know when you're going to show up to a job and need one!
Just ordered the Flo Fx with the grate. You mentioned putting it on the thin set but we saw you put it on the mud pack in one of your other videos. Do we put it on the thin-set or can it go right on the mud pack first? Excited to get the Flo Fx. Really like the idea that it adapts to our old system with what is provided in the kit. Thanks Tile Coach for the videos. Super helpful.
Hey tile coach! I am a union tile setter in Indiana. I do some side jobs and love watching your videos for pointers and tips. If you are interested I would love to have you as a coach to help teach me and educate me on everything tile. You seem very knowledgeable and seem to love what you do as much as I do. Thanks for your videos and if you are interested let me know
He has a web site that gives details on coaching sessions.
I definitely have been meaning to give these FloFX drains a try. Laticrete drains have an issue of being thicker than your average shower floor tile, even when screwed all the way down, which is a big problem. We do Laticrete everything, but started using Schluter drains again because the Laticrete drains are flawed. The FloFX drains remind me of the former USG bonding flange drains, which were my favorite until they were discontinued.
We like Laticrete, use their complete system with our drain and still get their system warranty. Their coverage stops where their products stop and we pick it up from there.
yeah seems like a design flaw the ability to push the schluter drain down to adjust to tile height is definitely beneficial
@@flofx9418 can you apply hydro ban directly to the fabric on your drains or do you have to use a sheet membrane?
@@jmhagle Apply hydroban liquid directly to the bond flange 👍
Awesome info TileCoach! Question: Would a version of FLO FX drain work with a new corner shower stall when installed December or installed after snow melts in spring 2022? (plumber not confirmed my appointment yet this Dec.) Second question: I plan to remove shower/tub from hallway bathroom to enlarge tub for a float meditation tub/shower by removing bottom half of linen closet. How would bottom tub part be built strong enough? Your FLEX SEAL show motivated my therapy tub project plans. The life this veteran experienced & knowledge confirmed my plans by researching on RUclips to discover true professional knowledge shared for me to accomplish where I live a 1/2 hour south of Canadian border in eastern part of WA. There are not many "professionals" that work north of Spokane.
I assume you will be having a video installing the flo drain in a project? thanks
I love Wedi drains and pre slope pans
Lol it’ll work. 11:15
The heavily modified laticrete mortars can literally be used underwater for swimming pools. Not only that, all contractors that have used the mortar know that they need to be careful as when it dries on something it’ll stick forever. Clothes, metal, plastic. Anything. I even tested some laticrete mortar on a dirty, dusty , dry , algae ridden piece of concrete, I put a little dab on it and now that it’s cured it does not come off. So imagine on a properly prepared material
Really nice product. For high-end jobs he should offer ability to custom-design the grates.
FloFx does offer laser engraving and has more styles and finishes in the works.
Let me say that I love, love, LOVE your video and the way you teach. I live in Ecuador and don't have access to many of the waterproof membranes or specialized bonding flanges you discuss in your videos. I just came back from the States and purchased the Oatey drain in your video. I have a 2" PVC pipe drain and an existing cement floor. Can you give me the best way forward for laying a curbless, tiled shower? I'm struggling to figure it out. Thanks!
You'll change your mind in 3 months...
It's just what you do. Always excited about a new product until it fails or doesn't meet your expectations. But in the meantime, it's the best thing ever invented for tile.
First time remodeling a shower, wish I woulda came across this video sooner! lol
DIYer here, starting my bathroom demo next week. I ran into your videos and wanted to say thank you. I know I can do the work but needed to figure out some stuff. Your videos helped build my confidence for my rebuild. I'm planning on adding mold proof insulation between the bathroom and living room wall to help sound proof..... thoughts?
That’s a good idea use mineral wool and I think it’s going to be great 👍🏻
Getting ready to use my first Kerdi drain and wonder what would happen if you red guarded, (or similar), the cloth before thin setting it in...
These FLO FX drains really are the bees knees. I already placed a stocking order to replace all of the Laticrete drains we were using. If you would like to support our channel and help us purchase supplies for these unbiased reviews, go to www.tilecoach.com/shop and purchase some merch! Thank you, let's hear what your favorite drain is!!!!
I having been using a standard $45 weephole and the divot with reinforced liquid membrane. Im sold, I'll try them out. Thanks
Great video! Although, I don't know if it's fair to favor the FLO FX when it hasn't been installed for 2 years. I know you were pointing out flaws in the Kerdi, but this product needs a few years' of installs to be able to tell whether it really works.
link to flo fx? are you the one who is going to supply these?
Can the flofx drain work with schluter grates or does it have to be flofx drain and grates?
A little dated, but I have to add how helpful the @tilecoach has been. I am a homeowner and have a full gut with all laticrete install on hardi with hydroban at seams in addition to laticrete shower system. It took months of research to find my shower flange and couldn't be happier with the price and durability of flofx in my install.
I wish I saw this before I just did my shower 2 weeks ago. I did standard 3 piece drain. I would of done that Flo-fx!
Vinyl pan liner clamped down to a drain assembly with weep holes is looking pretty good. Some water will get thru the grout and then get thru the thin set and then hit the waterproof membrane and follow the slope to the drain, either down the walls or the shower floor. The drain grate assembly that has no weep holes is set into the bonding flange drain with thin set and thus creates a dam at the membrane level around the drain grate. This sitting water eventually degrades the thin set and water can weep up under the membrane. No weep holes in the drain grate assembly to allow the water to escape is the main problem. The other problem is that thin set is not waterproof. So one partial fix would be to use liquid waterproofing around the membrane to bonding flange joint prior to setting the drain grate in thin set. The water would still not have escape weep holes but it should prevent the water from weeping back up under the membrane. In the mean time someone should come up with a drain grate with weep holes that would not get sealed off with thin set. Has anyone tried drilling weep holes in the drain grate assembly?
This is a very detailed analysis. Thank you.
Yep. I use the flo fx universal kit with an oatey drain assembly. I trace the oatey flange holes and water channel on the flo fx flange and use that instead of the oatey. Then I use a polyethylene membrane (like schluter) and Laticrete gold to adhere it over the pan and cement board( that's not installed into the mud bed) then I use 100% clear silicone over all of the seams and around the drain cut. Bullet proof. U got a preslope, a pan liner, and sheet membrane with waterproof silicon that makes it impenetrable for water to get through for only $10 instead of buying hydroban or aqua defense.
Grate carriers have weep channels designed into them, however they are overlooked/blocked even by professionals. Flo-FX does not show how to protect them during installation of thinset.
Love your videos. Does the flo effects have to be used with a foam pan?
Great work chase, your drains are selling like hot cakes here
Great information.
this is the video i needed , ive been telling my bro about this drain kit and were fucken forsure picking some up now, easier is better thanks bro
Home Depot in Canada has all Schluter Kerdi products.
Do you have a video on converting a 3 piece drain to the flofx? Going to be trying it soon..