Hello :) I'm a long time martial artist and parkour practitioner who has focused specifically on falling on hard surfaces and around complex shapes for over the last decade. Thought I'd add some more perspective for the sake of education. I'll spend some time playing around with this soft tissue pathway, but my initial reaction would be that in high speed falls, there isn't enough time to cross the shoulders and then travel down to the hip (this creates a line with a kink in it). With a high speed fall you're almost certainly forced to take a straight line across the back. As far as the above critique of that method (the strike point of multiple vertebrae), some people struggle with spine issues, but a huge majority of my students rolling on concrete (thousands over the last decade) don't have spine contact issues going across the spine in a straight line. And on top of that, you can alter the starting contact point and the exit point on the hip to alter the location of the line to deal with any protruding vertebrae if that's your issue. Lastly, putting the arm out to the side is very very risky for high speed rolls, especially for beginners who haven't honed the high skill level it takes to do his version of the roll. This is why I teach the triangle to back method, which uses all the muscle in both arms to guide the concrete to the upper back (avoiding the strike point of the top of the shoulder). Lot's of other elements to discuss as well, and I cover tons of these topics in my course, The Art of Falling: Fundamentals parkouredu.org/course/the-art-of-falling/?learn=14&campaign=AGR(10/2018) Cheers :)
I love the way you explain things. You obviously have had exposure to other systems and it really helps to have you compare and contrast techniques. This is very valuable to those of us transitioning from those systems to yours.
Thank you, I am a practitioner from South Florida and it is very refreshing to hear another technical explanation on the roll, I got great tips on what I was not doing properly and why.
Excellent video! In my opinion, the biggest and most important difference between the systema roll and the judo/everything else roll is the positioning of your hands at the end of the roll. In a real street fight, particularly with multiple attackers, if your hands are on the ground they might get stepped and you're not able to quickly defend against knees and kicks as you rise to your feet. Notice the position of Kevin's hands as he comes out of every systema roll, particularly the first one. Great video, thank you!
I would suggest that teaching through negative comparison to other techniques or styles has a negative impact on students. It leads to a dismissive attitude towards other martial arts rather than testing and proving for ones self. The reality is that when one practices any method if they explore it fully they will come to understand what works well and what doesnt and we see that reflectd by very skilled and very unskilled practitioners from many arts. Test and re test and think critically. This is reflected by the other commentors on here.
Thanks you, lots of us really appreciate your share here and, indeed, huge difference in techniques - it's all about principles, perception and approaching things that makes it. The Russian way is blending, integrating, flowing not overcoming or out-toughening!
This is brilliant. Thank you. Doing ukemi in Judo has been slow going for me, and have had difficulty trying to conceptually understand the similarities, differences and points of emphasis in the different kinds of rolls I have watched on RUclips, so this video was very clear, instructive and helpful with that. Any chance of doing a special series of 'How to Adapt/Change Your Judo Rolls', or something like that?
with the shoulder control thing, that is literally it's main focus, a parkour roll can go in any direction if you know how. My guess is that it isn't designed to be done while carrying a weapon, but you can do any direction with one hand using either, I also think that it is a much quicker roll that puts you in a less compromised position. My other thought is that maybe it is because it feels less natural and may take more time to learn properly.
Little harsh on the japanese. Yes the dojo developed sports and systems have crap rolls however the kobudo or old systems have identical rolls to systema. For example we do the exact same roll in the bujinkan. The kobudo systems in Japan were for the battlefield too. Really nice pointers though. Thanks for the vid
Yes and in Aikido Ukemi you learn to roll diagonal and not along the spine like he critisized, also there is hardly these hitting the ground with the arm. When he dont know much about Bu-do/jitsu he shouldnt talk about it.
Gieszkanne I've been in the Japanese martial arts for 32 years and trained under many different teachers in JJJ and also hold three advanced ranks in said styles. Yes, there are some styles that roll closer to this, but I am speaking for the most part. The majority of Japanese styles as they are taught today teach rolling very poorly. Moreover, while you may be fortunate in your respective bujinkan or aikido systems to have learned exactly this way, I have trained with many bujinkan and aikido practitioners around the world, many of them blank belts, and I have yet to have one tell me or demonstrate to me that they have the exact same rolls. It's not a criticism. I love the JMAs and continue to teach them--it's just a statement of reality. In the traditional kobudo that I have studied, there is some degree of arm sliding but the motion is more linear and lacking the screwing that we recruit. Similarly, there is no treatment of thoracic flexibility and iits relationship to reactive exhaling. Rolling is quite formal and stiffly taught. I have never seen such a deep treatment of adaptability and softening of the body for rolls in the Japanese arts. I am sure it exists in some exceptional schools, but again I am talking about the norm. Modern body work approaches like feldenkrais and the alexander method get closest, and in the case of the alexander method are improvements of judo rolls and we have a lot of cross over with tthem, yet there are still differences in application.
He knows plenty about Japanese Martial Arts as he actually trains in them. He knows very well what he's talking about. The only Roll similar to this in Japanese Martial Arts is in Ninjutsu.
Re parkour rolls, those are more likely to be done voluntarily, as opposed to a roll caused by a throw or shove. In combat you'd have less control over what you would be rolling on, so guarding against rocks and debris is more important than in parkour. It's also about positioning during and after the roll, and when you are getting up, if you want to get up. Being able to see attackers and grab tools may require a different roll than parkour.
Right, like you said, it's just a combat-focused move designed to be executed with a weapon. It's likely that this roll is used because of the fact that it has more options for where you end up, where as a parkour roll is more single-focused: just rolling to break a fall.
An interesting technique to say the least :) However, it should be noted that the Aikido roll Kevin displayed here is used for exhibition purposes (performed by the attacker if he is "defeated" and falls to the ground). If you search for Ukemi on YT, you will see more useful techniques that allow soft falls, continued movement due to inertia etc. This technique looks like it would work much better in smaller areas than ukemi though!
I guess of course there is also an argument to be made that the distinction is pointless, but the one I really don't get is the idea of rolling directly onto a shoulder, I am worried that if done too fast and without the right conditions you might just fall on it and hurt it.
I'm no expert but I assume the issue is that a parkour roll is solely designed to absorb and disperse impact from a fall, where as these systema rolls are designed for in-combat maneuverability. Like at 4:32, parkour rolls can place a person somewhere other than the area directly in front of them, since a parkour roll is not focused on shoulder control.
works great, but how does a L4-5 S1 rupture disk (re: to many PLFs, long jumps from helos, ect) work w/ your lower body twisting? I have lots of CQB, Aikido, et al background and have sever lower bakl neuro problems
100% same as ukemi :D I thought Systema had created another way to execute a forward roll. I guess I'll have to conclude that the ukemi just is the most efficient forward roll there is.
Sorry kevin but the criticism of japanese roll doesn't hold . In judo and aikido we do roll diagonally also for the reasons you correctly indicate. The only difference is indeed the spread out of the hands... which btw makes it rather tricky to hold a long weapon.
"the Systema roll" is actually very common in Aikido ... I guess you don't know much about Aikido or japanese rolls, e.g. the slapping on the ground is never done, only in exercise as preparation for break falls.
Hello :) I'm a long time martial artist and parkour practitioner who has focused specifically on falling on hard surfaces and around complex shapes for over the last decade.
Thought I'd add some more perspective for the sake of education.
I'll spend some time playing around with this soft tissue pathway, but my initial reaction would be that in high speed falls, there isn't enough time to cross the shoulders and then travel down to the hip (this creates a line with a kink in it). With a high speed fall you're almost certainly forced to take a straight line across the back.
As far as the above critique of that method (the strike point of multiple vertebrae), some people struggle with spine issues, but a huge majority of my students rolling on concrete (thousands over the last decade) don't have spine contact issues going across the spine in a straight line. And on top of that, you can alter the starting contact point and the exit point on the hip to alter the location of the line to deal with any protruding vertebrae if that's your issue.
Lastly, putting the arm out to the side is very very risky for high speed rolls, especially for beginners who haven't honed the high skill level it takes to do his version of the roll. This is why I teach the triangle to back method, which uses all the muscle in both arms to guide the concrete to the upper back (avoiding the strike point of the top of the shoulder).
Lot's of other elements to discuss as well, and I cover tons of these topics in my course, The Art of Falling: Fundamentals parkouredu.org/course/the-art-of-falling/?learn=14&campaign=AGR(10/2018)
Cheers :)
I love the way you explain things. You obviously have had exposure to other systems and it really helps to have you compare and contrast techniques. This is very valuable to those of us transitioning from those systems to yours.
Thank you, I am a practitioner from South Florida and it is very refreshing to hear another technical explanation on the roll, I got great tips on what I was not doing properly and why.
I wish I could fold in half like that. He looks so comfortable in the floor, brilliant technique.
Very interesting seeing another system's rolling method. Great video to watch, I may have to try this sometime
Real martial art genius. Will help me greatly, thanks for sharing.
Excellent video! In my opinion, the biggest and most important difference between the systema roll and the judo/everything else roll is the positioning of your hands at the end of the roll. In a real street fight, particularly with multiple attackers, if your hands are on the ground they might get stepped and you're not able to quickly defend against knees and kicks as you rise to your feet. Notice the position of Kevin's hands as he comes out of every systema roll, particularly the first one.
Great video, thank you!
I would suggest that teaching through negative comparison to other techniques or styles has a negative impact on students. It leads to a dismissive attitude towards other martial arts rather than testing and proving for ones self. The reality is that when one practices any method if they explore it fully they will come to understand what works well and what doesnt and we see that reflectd by very skilled and very unskilled practitioners from many arts. Test and re test and think critically.
This is reflected by the other commentors on here.
Thanks you, lots of us really appreciate your share here and, indeed, huge difference in techniques - it's all about principles, perception and approaching things that makes it. The Russian way is blending, integrating, flowing not overcoming or out-toughening!
This is brilliant. Thank you.
Doing ukemi in Judo has been slow going for me, and have had difficulty trying to conceptually understand the similarities, differences and points of emphasis in the different kinds of rolls I have watched on RUclips, so this video was very clear, instructive and helpful with that.
Any chance of doing a special series of 'How to Adapt/Change Your Judo Rolls', or something like that?
I'd imagine this drill is very good for any kind of systema. Pretty good explanation, too I love it!
with the shoulder control thing, that is literally it's main focus, a parkour roll can go in any direction if you know how. My guess is that it isn't designed to be done while carrying a weapon, but you can do any direction with one hand using either, I also think that it is a much quicker roll that puts you in a less compromised position. My other thought is that maybe it is because it feels less natural and may take more time to learn properly.
Little harsh on the japanese. Yes the dojo developed sports and systems have crap rolls however the kobudo or old systems have identical rolls to systema. For example we do the exact same roll in the bujinkan. The kobudo systems in Japan were for the battlefield too. Really nice pointers though. Thanks for the vid
Yes and in Aikido Ukemi you learn to roll diagonal and not along the spine like he critisized, also there is hardly these hitting the ground with the arm. When he dont know much about Bu-do/jitsu he shouldnt talk about it.
Gieszkanne I've been in the Japanese martial arts for 32 years and trained under many different teachers in JJJ and also hold three advanced ranks in said styles. Yes, there are some styles that roll closer to this, but I am speaking for the most part. The majority of Japanese styles as they are taught today teach rolling very poorly. Moreover, while you may be fortunate in your respective bujinkan or aikido systems to have learned exactly this way, I have trained with many bujinkan and aikido practitioners around the world, many of them blank belts, and I have yet to have one tell me or demonstrate to me that they have the exact same rolls. It's not a criticism. I love the JMAs and continue to teach them--it's just a statement of reality. In the traditional kobudo that I have studied, there is some degree of arm sliding but the motion is more linear and lacking the screwing that we recruit. Similarly, there is no treatment of thoracic flexibility and iits relationship to reactive exhaling. Rolling is quite formal and stiffly taught. I have never seen such a deep treatment of adaptability and softening of the body for rolls in the Japanese arts. I am sure it exists in some exceptional schools, but again I am talking about the norm. Modern body work approaches like feldenkrais and the alexander method get closest, and in the case of the alexander method are improvements of judo rolls and we have a lot of cross over with tthem, yet there are still differences in application.
He knows plenty about Japanese Martial Arts as he actually trains in them. He knows very well what he's talking about. The only Roll similar to this in Japanese Martial Arts is in Ninjutsu.
systemacanada If they don't roll properly that could explain why they are "blank belts". ;)
@@zoltancsikos5604 Strange, that most Aikidoka I know do similar rolls like he does ... but I'm not from this planet.
Excellent. Thanks
Very nicely explained
Thanks
0:24 That slap on the mat sounded like it stung pretty good. Ouch! ;) lol!
muchas gracias compañero!
thank you very much for this video it has helped me so much
Re parkour rolls, those are more likely to be done voluntarily, as opposed to a roll caused by a throw or shove. In combat you'd have less control over what you would be rolling on, so guarding against rocks and debris is more important than in parkour. It's also about positioning during and after the roll, and when you are getting up, if you want to get up. Being able to see attackers and grab tools may require a different roll than parkour.
Right, like you said, it's just a combat-focused move designed to be executed with a weapon. It's likely that this roll is used because of the fact that it has more options for where you end up, where as a parkour roll is more single-focused: just rolling to break a fall.
An interesting technique to say the least :)
However, it should be noted that the Aikido roll Kevin displayed here is used for exhibition purposes (performed by the attacker if he is "defeated" and falls to the ground). If you search for Ukemi on YT, you will see more useful techniques that allow soft falls, continued movement due to inertia etc. This technique looks like it would work much better in smaller areas than ukemi though!
I guess of course there is also an argument to be made that the distinction is pointless, but the one I really don't get is the idea of rolling directly onto a shoulder, I am worried that if done too fast and without the right conditions you might just fall on it and hurt it.
Nice Video Kevin :)
his skill is above my brain's comprehension
What about the one-finger roll by Master Moses Powell? It is supposed to work on concrete too.
I'm no expert but I assume the issue is that a parkour roll is solely designed to absorb and disperse impact from a fall, where as these systema rolls are designed for in-combat maneuverability. Like at 4:32, parkour rolls can place a person somewhere other than the area directly in front of them, since a parkour roll is not focused on shoulder control.
works great, but how does a L4-5 S1 rupture disk (re: to many PLFs, long jumps from helos, ect) work w/ your lower body twisting? I have lots of CQB, Aikido, et al background and have sever lower bakl neuro problems
excellent explanation, but, could someone put the general's last name to look for him?
here is a link to the video Kevin was referencing
ruclips.net/video/UKqLoZmfPGs/видео.html
100% same as ukemi :D I thought Systema had created another way to execute a forward roll.
I guess I'll have to conclude that the ukemi just is the most efficient forward roll there is.
very Nice
hello. is it "Gen. Alexander Retuinskih" ?? kevin secours says good example ..
Yes
Melbourne Systema thank you!
Eu
Tenho alguma experiência na pratica de systema e gostava de praticar muito mais mas em Portugal não é fácil
What is the name of the guy being referenced at 3:02?
This is similar to a Granby roll in Wrestling but you stay tighter
what are the shoes he's wearing?
...wow💫
I dont mean this to say any of this is wrong or weird, but what is wrong with a parkour style roll?
IamHueGraves I'd ask what makes this one better.
Sorry kevin but the criticism of japanese roll doesn't hold . In judo and aikido we do roll diagonally also for the reasons you correctly indicate. The only difference is indeed the spread out of the hands... which btw makes it rather tricky to hold a long weapon.
The very first judo master I RUclipsd is rolling cleanly over the middle of the spine m.ruclips.net/video/2CLBeDR6kcM/видео.html
As are these aikidoka
I’ve trained both incidentally and have been in jjj my whole life .
Хорошее видео
Whoa.
Does he have knee pads on
Tx
j'aime bien parceque je suis un petit eleve
"the Systema roll" is actually very common in Aikido ... I guess you don't know much about Aikido or japanese rolls, e.g. the slapping on the ground is never done, only in exercise as preparation for break falls.
там тесак сзади
The difference between a forward roll and a breakfall, this is what this guy fails to show in that video.