The First 8-Seat SUV With A Plug Is The 2024 Mazda CX-90 PHEV | First Drive Review
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2023
- It's hard to believe it, but aside from BEV buses and BEV vans, the CX-90 is the first anything to have three rows, eight seats, and offer any kind of EV range. On top of that the CX-90 plug in hybrid even has a spare tire! It's all made possible by Mazda's new RWD platform (a rear biased AWD system is standard) which was designed from the ground up to use the PHEV system. The battery is located under the passenger compartment and doesn't consume any passenger or cargo room.
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I have been driving a Mazda since 2019 and I love the rotary knob controller for the infotainment system. It keeps the screen free of fingerprints and poutine sauce.
"poutine sauce"
Hey Ma! The new gravy dropped!
I've rented cars with the rotary knob and I absolutely did not enjoy it. It took longer to do anything (typing especially), which given how many drivers will use it, is not a good thing. I've had touch screens in my cars since 2006 and it's definitely easier and faster.
Though maybe my no poutine in the car rule helps.
I was hoping to see 8 seats phev version in this review as it’s mentioned on the title
Everyone take a drink when Alex says rear wheel drive. Really driving the point home.
Alex’s reviews are always excellent. Really appreciate the detail.
I really prefer a controller knob for the infotainment screen. In my Pacifica Hybrid, the tune knob doubles as a controller knob while in Apple CarPlay, and I use it all the time. Kind of the opposite of the Mazda system.
Comprehensive, well thought out review. Good job!
I am eagerly waiting for Cx-70 Hybrid
Me too. This is slightly bigger than what I'm looking for. A cx070 with the same interior and perhaps 5-10mi more EV range would be ideal.
@@greenne yes i am concerned about EV range, Rav 4 is the champ . Dream case scenario is cx-70 with same price point as rav4 and same EV range
Great review. I am curious as to how the CX-70 will improve with less weight. I don’t rear care for end design/styling. The interior is nice though.
Will the plug in model be able to preheat and or cool the cabin? Will it need to be plugged in to do so?
I love Alex's videos, but I have to say it. You guys simply missing a huge point about Mazda infotainment. That system is intended for users who own the car and develop muscle memory, not just for people who will drive it for a few hours.
If touchscreens were superior to all control devices, we would all be using ipads/surface computers instead of regular PCs and Macbooks with keyboard and mouse/touchpad combination. The reason they are still around is that they work wonderfully when you develop muscle memory for QWERTY keyboard and 10-finger typing.
I’ve driven every Mazda for weeks, sometimes weeks back to back. If Mazda users didn’t beg for a touchscreen we wouldn’t see one here…
A rotary knob is not a mouse and keyboard. That's not a reasonable analogy. Muscle memory or not, using Android Auto or Apple Carplay with a rotary knob is finicky and not as easy or fast as with a touch screen.
Already ordered a CX-90 MHEV for my wife, but I'm REALLY thinking of buying a 2nd one in a PHEV. With my short commute, it would almost never run on the gasoline engine. Gas is an absolutely atrocious $6 per gallon where I live so that would be awesome to not use any gas to get to work each day and drive in a fairly big luxury SUV.
Concerning the PHEV vs Inline 6 it all depends on you gas and electric prices; Put them side by side with a PHEV full charge in EV mode. In 25 miles, the PHEV will use 0 gas but the battery will be depleted. The inline-6 gets 25 mpg combined so it will have used 1 gallon of gas. Any further driving and both the PHEV and inline-6 will operate on ICE at 25 mpg combined.
I just filled up at $3,27 per gallon.
The 17.8 Kwh battery only uses 80% but with charging inefficiencies it would take ~ 15 Kw to fully charge. Based on my electric rate, taxes, fees, I pay 0.20 cents per Kw ( most areas pay more) or $3.20 to fully charge the PHEV battery. There are many reasons to buy an EV or PHEV but in this case, saving money is not one of them.
A video showed drilling down thru Mazda “settings” option on native software and enabling touch controls when outside of Carplay/Android. So can be 100% touch but I’m not sure if native touch works at all speeds like CarPlay can.
Beautiful Mazda and stunning scenery 😮
Thank you for this great video. I bought it on Saturday, but I am still trying to figure it out. Which one is the hybrid mode? Also, if I just want to use it as a hybrid, do I need to charge the battery. I charged the battery overnight, and on my drive to work, the battery went all the way to zero.
after 40 miles of pure E drive, how is hybrid gas mileage? Still smooth power output?
Hi Alex. In the EV mode, this is doing ~ 1.5 miles / kWh?
The lack of touch screen capability for the native software and just the software itself already make it feel dated. I'm very interested in the CX-70 which will hopefully push to over 30 miles of electric range.
Great review
Thanks for watching! -Travis
Mazda makes such great cars for the price. Can't wait for them to make an EV... or the MX30.
Is L4 turbo engine mounted in a reverse (timing chain is between engine block and transmission) same as 6 in line
How does the awd work? Does it have a discrete electric motor at the front?
Amazing. I am a pure EV fan, but will recommend this to my sister
Please do an in-depth comparison of 3-row phev currently on sale. CX90 VS Outlander vs XC90
Any chance we will be seeing the full review soon? Thanks!
Great review as always. Seems like a compelling car to the 3-row PHEV market. I'm anxious to test drive one and see if it's enough for me to move on from my Palisade. I love the Hyundai, but the fuel economy is killing me. With a very short commute, but a need for 3-rows I feel stuck without many options. Cheers!
Concerning the PHEV vs Inline 6; Put them side by side with a PHEV full charge in EV mode. In 25 miles, the PHEV will use 0 gas but the battery will be depleted. The inline-6 gets 25 mpg combined so it will have used 1 gallon of gas. Any further driving and both the PHEV and inline-6 will operate on ICE at 25 mpg combined.
I just filled up at $3,27 per gallon.
The 17.8 Kwh battery only uses 80% but with charging inefficiencies it would take ~ 15 Kw to fully charge. Based on my electric rate, taxes, fees, I pay 0.20 cents per Kw ( most areas pay more) or $3.20 to fully charge the PHEV battery. There are many reasons to buy an EV or PHEV but in this case, saving money is not one of them.
@@clarkkent9080 so the usability of the phez mode is only for the 26 miles electric only range? And beyond that's it's pretty much a regular gas car?
Sounds so impractical, unless I'm missing something 🤔
@@Ian-mv4qq In normal mode the PHEV acts as a hybrid and gets 25 mpg gasoline the exact same mpg gasoline as the Inline 6 mild hybrid. In EV mode ,the PHEV only runs on electric (25 mile range) until the battery is almost depleted and then it switched to ICE and gets 25 mpg on gasoline
@@clarkkent9080 so it's the way I understand it. That means the plugin is "useless" in increasing efficiency once the battery is depleted?
This is the part that I don't understand why people would get plugin instead of the regular hybrid where you don't need to worry about battery depleting and recharging it.
@@Ian-mv4qq Lithium batteries do not last long if they are depleted to 0%. So manufacturers, including Mazda only allow the battery to be depleted to 20% before switching to ICE and the ICE can charge the battery and if you need a boost of power, the battery will allow the electric motor to help boost power for a short period.
The advantage of PHEVs is you can charge at home and travel up to 25 miles on electric alone without buying any gasoline. However, electricity is not free and you are only saving 1 to maybe 2 dollars each time you charge over gasoline. Given that the PHEV is a $4,000 option, it would take years of driving EV only before you break even on those cost savings.
Looks like Blind spot monitoring is standard from the base PHEV model
Does the top end PHEV have self driving/lane keep?
Thank you for the video Alex, hope you can respond to me with my question, since you've driven Sorento Phev, if given an opportunity which one would you buy or recommend Sorento or cx90 PHEV when compared to value, comfort and driving dynamics especially cx-90 premium plus is 7k more than Sorento SX prestige. Thank you!
I really like the CX-90, but I’d say if you don’t mind slower 0-60 times and a smaller cabin, the Sorento is an excellent value
Alex, can it recharge the battery with the engine?
First the Hyundai Ioniq 6 has an egg shaped key that Alex doesn’t like and now the Mazda has an egg shaped rear end that Alex doesn’t like…. Why does he hold such a grudge against eggs?
Eggs are good. Cars with eggy design doesn't look good.
Looks more like a Beluga forehead to me on the Mazda
Because.....eggflation.
It is Easter time so 😁
Let’s not egg him on
Combined hp is above 300hp when battery is charged but what is the usable hp once you deplete the battery? Do you only have the gas engine hp which is below 200hp until you het the battery charged?
The battery will keep at least 20% of charge to bring all the 323hp when needed. You will not have a derated power like some other vehicles when battery is discharged.
It would be great to see the full cargo space with all seats down behind the driver.
Would you get this over a used Volvo XC90 Recharge with the extended range?
Wondering the same. Big price difference though
What about the Jeep GC 4XE vs. CX-90?
Alex, The efficiency is not commensurate with the hoopla.🤨
I want this battery with the I6 engine. If it fits I'd like this electric motor also, but I understand if mechanically infeasible with the different I4 vs. I6 length. But the battery, I want the battery!
Can the 3rd row be removed?
I couldn't find the info. Is the cx-90 phev equiped with an heat pump to maximise Ev range in winter like the outlander phev and rav4 prime?
According to the motormouth review, it is.
The mild hybrid has a very small battery and I don't think it would operate a heat pump very long
Does this have heat pump?
I hate the stupid touch-screen in other cars. When driving it's a major distraction. A Twist knob is one of the main reasons I don't want to replace my cx-5 with any "luxary" cars.
Why wouldn't you compare to the Outlander PHEV? That is the closest in terms of $ and specs
Outlander is much smaller. This can be compared to Pilot
Now will it actually become available on dealer lots, or will it be unobtanium for the next couple years?
If it was a BEV probably unobtanium, considering it has a reasonably sized battery for daily driving, if there is a waiting list it won't be months or years long like with BEVs.
@@anydaynow01 I've been on a wait list over a year to even order a BEV I like. I have given up and placed an order for the CX-90 PHEV. The dealer tells me I should expect delivery in the fall, maybe sooner. We'll see.
Hard to say, they will be staring with somewhere around 10% of production
So much of buying transport for family is about what you truly NEED to be happy. Compare for 50 mile days (weekdays to/from work + kid/store) at my local energy costs ($0.17/kWh delivered to home, $4.09 UNLD89, $3.58 UNLD87):
Refueling Costs
A1. CX-90 PHEV (all electric, MUST charge @ work): $10.24/100 miles
A2. CX-90 PHEV (half electric, half 89 octane): $13.30/100 miles
B. CX-90 base turbo (mild hybrid 89 octane): $16.36/100 miles
C. Toyota mid/large hybrid (Sienna, Venza, Highlander Hybrid, UNLD87): $10.23 (that was unexpected, but informative)
I’ll call maintenance to be a wash between all of these. They’re all hybrids, and all need regular ICE power plant maintenance. The PHEV will have extra mid-long-term maintenance expenses for the cooling systemS.
So for folks with NO charging available at work, if they’re good with a mid-to-large Toyota Hybrid, and using about 0.86 gallons more gas more /100 miles, the same cost effectiveness CAN be had as running the PHEV on electric only (which doesn’t really happen, even if kept charged).
Gotta choose how much $$ up front (luxury and batteries cost more), and how important reducing gas use is if your day > than the PHEV single charge range.
And yes, a Model X is TOO XPNSV, and a 3-row Model Y could work for SMALL children, but mine aren’t. I’m not alone in this situation.
How long would you have to drive all EV in the CX-90 PHEV to just break even non that $4,000 PHEV option over the inline 6?
I love controlling Android Auto with the Mazda controller knob and dedicated nav/audio buttons. I prefer it to a touch screen when moving.
Same. Takes a little getting used to at first but love that the display on my Mazda3 is fingerprint free and I find I stay more focused on the road vs. reaching for the screen. It’s become so natural I immediately reach for the knob in our Honda and Toyota before quickly remembering that’s not an option.
Yeah, its dumb using touchscreens on a car. Nothing more than another accident waiting just like using a cellphone while driving.
Yo Genious , pls compare cx90 phev and Grand highlander max 😊
I''ll keep my Sienna Hybrid 3rd Row., way more space and still 0-60 in low 7s. 35mpg. No plug in hassles. Power sliding doors are so nice.
Yeah, these are for people who want to appear cool in their soccer mom vehicles. A minivan is still more practical in just about every way.
for sure, but my gosh the wait times on the Sienna, my kid will be all grown up already!!
I also prefer vans to 3 row crossovers, problem is I want a second row bench and they only seem to ever stock higher trim vans with captains chairs. On top of that gas is more expensive and electricity is cheaper here in Canada compared to the US. If only they made a Sienna Prime then I wouldn't have to weigh my options (and no, I don't trust Chrysler longevity enough to get a Pacifica PHEV lol).
Smaller than a palisade while missing features like a heated third row and “massaging” seat bit with better driving dynamics can be said without bringing up German cars that are more than double the price
Mazda’s use of their traditional automatic transmissions has been more like (or made it feel more like) a DCT ever since they started using the Skyactiv drivetrains. They did have a torque converter, but they would lock up the torque converter in 1st gear over about 5mph and then it would remain locked the entire time until the vehicle came to a stop again, even when shifting. They did this by closely combining the engine and transmission control so that the engine power would be slightly reduced during shifts to allow the engine speed to drop with shifts without causing a shift shock as it typically would when shifting a traditional AT without unlocking the TCC.
Mazda’s torque converter usage in skyactiv is hardly unique, most modern vehicles spend 99+ percent of the fine in lockup
The CX-60/70/80/90 use Mazda's 8 speed DCT. They eliminated one DCT problem by only operating the vehicle in electric (PHEV and mild Hybrid) mode when below 5 mph. My only problem with that is I hate start/stop that can not be bypassed and what happens in 15 mins of stop and go traffic when the small battery in the mild hybrid runs out of juice?
@@clarkkent9080 I spoke with the drivetrain engineer at length on the transmission, it is *not** a DCT. It's a traditional automatic with planetary gearsets and a single clutch+motor in place of the torque converter. When the battery drops below a specific SOC, somewhere around 25% of usable capacity, the engine starts and a small motor/generator is used to generate power to charge the battery and power the traction motor. At extreme low speeds it operates as a serial hybrid.
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Then I am confused as Mazda says it is a multi-clutch transmission with 2 clutches (one in front and one in rear), just like a DCT. Traditional or not, without a torque converter it is a hard connection between the ICE and transmission with the transmission clutches either open or one closed (digital).
How does the vehicle operate below ~5 mph on the ICE if there is no torque converter. Correct me if I am wrong but a DCT is basically a manual transmission that shifts automatically and with a manual transmission, below a certain speed, you either have to slip the clutch, stall the engine, or disengage and stop/coast by depressing the clutch pedal. I thought Mazda solved this by stopping the ICE and modulating the electric motor to provide whatever slow speed is required.
When the ICE is running either the transmission is connected to the ICE or it is not and without a torque converter that is just like a manual transmission where you are either connected or not. I also assume that there is no regen braking unless the ICE stops and the motor becomes a generator but this would require the ICE to stop every time you depress the brake.
When the battery becomes depleted and the ICE starts, again it is either connected to the drive train via the transmission clutches or it is not (again digital).
Simple question; explain what happens when in stop and go traffic you want to creep along at 1 MPH? ICE Idling and transmission in 1st gear? Better be a creeper gear.
Anyway thanks for the response. Your videos are very technical and that is what interests me. I know most people have no idea how the drive train works and could care less but looks are important to them. For me, the interior and top of the hood are all that matters as that is all I see when driving and I don't buy to please others that see what I cannot.
@@clarkkent9080 An automatic is not like a "standard" DCT. The clutches in the automatic are used only for sending power thru different gearing paths, not to disconnect engine from transmission and/or drive wheels. The clutch in a standard (even a DCT) is used to disconnect, and via slippage to allow the wheels to stop and start with the engine running. The role of the standard clutch is handled via the torque converter in a typical automatic. Without a torque converter in a typical automatic transmission drivetrain, the wheels must turn at the gear ratio if the engine is turning.
Mazda does not have the torque converter, replacing it with a planetary gear set, supposedly. Look up planetary gears on wikipedia. TL;DR: three input/output shafts connected by gears, requiring that at least two of the shafts must turn if any are turning.
In the Mazda the gas engine is on one shaft, the electric motor on another and the rest of the drivetrain (8spd and etc) on the third. This means that the I6 can drive the drivetrain. Or the I6 can drive the electric motor as an alternator. Or the I6 can drive both simultaneously. Or the electric motor can drive just the drivetrain or just the I6 (like a starter motor). This flexibility allows the combination of planetary gears and the electric motor to replace the torque converter in a typical automatic transmission.
Planetary gears are also used in most of the Toyota HEVs and also in early 2000s Ford HEVs both for propulsion and to use the electric motor as a starter or an alternator. Toyota calls this (now) an "eCVT." In my 2008 Escape hybrid, there is no reverse gear. Instead the electric motor is used for reverse. This is a problem if one needs to back up a steep hill. The mazda with the 8spd automatic would have a reverse gear, avoiding the hill problem.
I picked up my CX-90 PHEV about a week ago and I am really pleased with it. I do have a question to which I have seen a different answers. With the CX-90 PHEV having an EV only range of about 42km (26 miles) it makes sense to to me to charge to 100% when I plug it in. That said the general advice is not to charge EVs to 100% regularly but others say that PHEVs are different with the gasoline engine on board as they have much larger "buffer zones" on each end of the charge range (i.e. 100% charge is not really 100% and the same thing for zero) and it's fine to charge PHEVs to 100% every time. Does anyone have the real information on this?
I do not have specific information on the CX-90 but lithium batteries achieve the greatest life expectancy if only operated between 20% and 80% capacity. I assume all manufacturers use software to limit battery usage within this range with actual battery capacity of 20% indicating 0% on your dash display and actual battery capacity limited to 80% and indicating 100% on your dash display.
Your dash display is only indicating the usable battery capacity.
@@clarkkent9080I suspect the PHEVs have more buffer in their battery management software due to having the gasoline engine to fall back on. Sometimes with a pure EV you really do need all the range.
I was just reading where a couple were taking their newly purchased Rivian EV pickup from Vancouver to the Yukon. The Rivian has a stated range of 500km and at one point they had 513km between charge points. They made it but just and they had to use every electron their battery could hold.
@@ddavidson5 I have always reads read that lithium batteries last the longest if maintained between 20% and 80%. If you go outside that band, you will decrease the battery life. Also, fast charging reduces the battery life.
The best way to tell is charge a battery reading 0% on the dash to 100% on the dash readout and measure with a kill-a-watt meter how many Kwhs it took. You would also have the take into account10-15% charging inefficiencies.
@@clarkkent9080 yes, I read the same 80%-20% thing but the articles are always about pure EVs not the PHEVs. If anyone knows for sure it would be helpful. One thing is if you take 40% off the range of a PHEV there's not much left.
Loved everything about it. but, 8 seats with blind spot monitor is not possible. Middle bench seats is a must for me.
Also, does it have lane follow assist? That's very important too. Without these two, I will pass.
CORRECTION: Looks like Alex is wrong about the Blind spot monitoring. I see that the base model of PHEV comes with Blind spot monitoring in the mazda website. So, now it's all about whether Mazda offers Level-2 drive assist.
Not sure where you are but PHEV base model has level 2 drive assist in Canada.
@@sizzlacalunji oh I see. I am looking at US specs and there is no mention of lane follow assist or anything similar. All I see is a lane keep assist which is just pulling you back to your lane if you go out of it. That's level-1 I believe. But I heard that Mazda had level-2 available in some other markets. Probably Canada is one of them
The Mazda system is called lane trace but does the same thing as lane follow.
I agree the back is a little to round. The Mitsu Outlander is better rear end.
I love my CX9 and I’m hoping these will be available at dealers.
It's sad that Mazda is targeting only a bigger PHEV vehicle like this one, which in the US will often be driven with no passengers on board.
What would you prefer to see Mazda focusing on? -Travis
I'm wondering how this compares to the Outlander PHEV. I know the Mazda is more luxurious, but it is also about $10k more expensive. It also has less EV range.
The Mitsubishi transmission could be a boomer
I want it!
Wondering why they didn't use the turbo 4 in this PHEV set up....
Likely fuel economy. They opted for a more powerful motor, less powerful engine
No need for it. PHEV are complicated and expensive enough without a turbo. Also, the electric motor(s) give the power a turbo would without the wait.
thank you for showing the sunroof operation!! A bit of a fail for me.
Seems like the complexity of this drivetrain and all these PHEVs will be trouble down the road. If you can swing it, the best move is still an EV for around town, gas car for when you want to leave.
I agree 100%
This is for people who want only one family car and have to drop kids to school. But middle row needs bench seat.
VW, make next atlas PHEV - roomy inside, childeat tilt etc...
It's seriously not the first or the only 8 seater plugin in, what are you talking about?
Shame that there aren't more gasoline-eliminating PHEVs, rather than these gasoline-mitigating ones. RIP Honda Clarity, 2nd gen Chevy Volt, and BMW i3 REx - the only good PHEVs ever made.
Concerning the PHEV vs Inline 6; Put them side by side with a PHEV full charge in EV mode. In 25 miles, the PHEV will use 0 gas but the battery will be depleted. The inline-6 gets 25 mpg combined so it will have used 1 gallon of gas. Any further driving and both the PHEV and inline-6 will operate on ICE at 25 mpg combined.
I just filled up at $3,27 per gallon.
The 17.8 Kwh battery only uses 80% but with charging inefficiencies it would take ~ 15 Kw to fully charge. Based on my electric rate, taxes, fees, I pay 0.20 cents per Kw ( most areas pay more) or $3.20 to fully charge the PHEV battery. There are many reasons to buy an EV or PHEV but in this case, saving money is not one of them.
I wonder why mazda didn’t spec the high end PHEV to high end turbo S. I will definitely get one if PHEV has all the premium interior and feature.
Concerning the PHEV vs Inline 6; Put them side by side with a PHEV full charge in EV mode. In 25 miles, the PHEV will use 0 gas but the battery will be depleted. The inline-6 gets 25 mpg combined so it will have used 1 gallon of gas. Any further driving and both the PHEV and inline-6 will operate on ICE at 25 mpg combined.
I just filled up at $3,27 per gallon.
The 17.8 Kwh battery only uses 80% but with charging inefficiencies it would take ~ 15 Kw to fully charge. Based on my electric rate, taxes, fees, I pay 0.20 cents per Kw ( most areas pay more) or $3.20 to fully charge the PHEV battery. There are many reasons to buy an EV or PHEV but in this case, saving money is not one of them.
Much less room in the third row vs Chrysler Pacifica eHybrid PHEV.
That color wins..
This car review is of a 7 seat cx90, just in case the title misleads you as well
I feel like Mazda failed when they made this platform rwd. They could've fitted it with a much larger pack and simplified the rear suspension if they went with a fwd configuration.
That's possible, but if they're trying to be competitive in the segment as more of a premium brand then RWD needs to at least be considered. -Travis
@EVBuyersGuide thanks for your reply.
It looks awfully similar in design language to an XC90, including the name. Otherwise, great car.
Please bring back fog lights Mazda
It doesn't make sense that it has the same mpg as the V6, what's the real mpg?!
all versions of the CX-90 are rated at 25 mpg in hybrid mode. In the PHEV, it can go 25 miles and then it will switch to hybrid mode and get 25 mpg
@@clarkkent9080 still, if it's a true a hybrid system with regenerative braking than the mgp should be more efficient than the V6 while in hybrid mode. Either there is some information missing or it is a badly designed system.
@@davidrave563 The PHEV and the Inline 6 may both have regen braking as they are both hybrids with the same system other than battery size. The only difference in the PHEV is that very heavy battery which is offset by the 4 cylinder's better fuel economy. I think the only advantage of the PHEV is that it can travel 25 miles on electric only. Other than that, they are all hybrids..
I think Mitsubishi makes an 8 seat PHEV
Noone wants touch screen its a driving safety hazard
Concerning the PHEV vs Inline 6; Put them side by side with a PHEV full charge in EV mode. In 25 miles, the PHEV will use 0 gas but the battery will be depleted. The inline-6 gets 25 mpg combined so it will have used 1 gallon of gas. Any further driving and both the PHEV and inline-6 will operate on ICE at 25 mpg combined.
I just filled up at $3,27 per gallon.
The 17.8 Kwh battery only uses 80% but with charging inefficiencies it would take ~ 15 Kw to fully charge. Based on my electric rate, taxes, fees, I pay 0.20 cents per Kw ( most areas pay more) or $3.00 to fully charge the PHEV battery. There are many reasons to buy an EV or PHEV but in this case, saving money is not one of them.
You're ignoring regen brake wear savings and oil change savings of a PHEV. For someone that can do 90% of their daily commute within the EV range, you aren't even cranking the ICE over unless you're traveling out of town, so even in severe-duty city driving you're only changing the oil because it's aging out.
Also, PHEV mpg figures are always low because they're tested with flat traction batteries. A conscientious owner is going to conserve traction battery power for surface streets at either end of the trip (using hybrid mode for longer trips), allowing the electric motor to assist the ICE better allowing it to remain in Atkinson cycle where it's far more efficient.
That said, I pay 10¢/kwh and $4.16/gallon in Washington State and get far better ICE mpg out of my Clarity PHEV (also 17kwh, but far more efficient) than the official figure because I drive it correctly (which isn't slow, btw).
@@EUC-lid Oil changes are on a yearly or per so many mile basis and because I don't travel far in my ICE only vehicle, I always change oil on a yearly basis. Also I am on my 6th year in a CX-5 and brakes still are ~50% so no real saving there.
I could be wrong but I believe that one reason the PHEV is so inefficient is that it has no regen braking. The electric motor/generator is directly connected to the ICE. When the ICE is rotating, the electric motor/generator is turning. For regen braking to work, every time you touch the brakes the ICE would have to shutdown and the electric motor become a generator. Now that would be insane.
You are forgetting the after 100K miles the main battery ($$$) will eventual fail and that cost is on you, along with the inverter and charger. Also add a few hinderd for a level 2 charger. Also you are paying $4,320 more for the PHEV with tax and more if you take out a loan. If you look at the tax and fees in your electric bill you are paying more than 10 cents a Kwh but lets ues your numbers: $4.16 per gallon - $1.50 to charge each night = $2.66 savings per day when driven at least 25 miles. Assume driving 6 days per week and you save $15.96/wk or $830 per year. Great news in 5.2 years you will break even and then those future savings can go toward battery/inverter/ charger replacement
The 25 mile range is what it is and most people do not hyper mile. No matter how you look at it or claim this or that, the PHEV will NOT pay for itself. The only reason to buy one MUST be for some other reason. I am not against the PHEV as I was seriously considering one but the numbers just do not work out as it is the most inefficient PHEV on the market today.
@@clarkkent9080 You should let Mazda know that their owner's manual is wrong because it absolutely says the PHEV has regen braking, which is adjustable by the driver. You also compare the cost of the PHEV to the turbo when the power output is more comparable to the turbo S.
@@kevinhedrick6933 I never said it did not have regen braking. I said that the motor/generator is hard connected to the ICE and it can either be a motor or generator but not both at the SAME time.
So, to regen brake they have to shutdown the ICE and let the transmission rotate the generator to produce electricity. Since it is hard connected, it must also rotate the shutdown ICE. This means that much of that regen energy is lost in rotating the shutdown ICE.
Some of the braking produces electrical charging power from the generator and some of the braking is rotating the ICE which is shutdown. If you don't think it takes much energy to rotate a shutdown ICE, the starter motor on a 4 cylinder draws 200 amps to rotate it and that is 200 amps that is NOT going back into the battery.
The simple fact is that Mazda's PHEV is the most inefficient on the market today. I like Mazda but they made the simplest and least efficient PHEV to get into electrification as quickly and cheaply as possible. If they want to compete, they must integrate the motor and generator into the transmission just like Toyota. The Toyota ECVT is a marvel in engineering design and extremely efficient. The Lexus nx 450h gets 15 more miles than the CX-90 with only a 0.4 Kwh larger battery.
@@clarkkent9080 Let me quote your post "I could be wrong but I believe that one reason the PHEV is so inefficient is that it has no regen braking." Did you write that? Now you are changing your argument to say that "I never said it did not have regen braking."
If you didn't even know the vehicle had regen braking, how can you possibly conclude that it is the most inefficient on the market today? You are clearly just making things up and stating them as fact.
I think Alex has a soft spot for Mazdas . I think the price is right but 25 mpg, low ev range and need to do gymnastics to get into 3rd row will make only Mazda entusiast to buy it. Personally, I’m looking to add older Miata to Toyota Sienna hybrid van and ionic 5 in my garage
It’s a 7 seater, not 8 seater.
Not my cup of tea, though I am sure others will find it interesting.
With 8 people, their luggage, maybe a roof carrier - I dunno how this will go up a 7 or 8% grade at 100F+. Especially if the traction battery is depleted?
It still has an ICE to power it in those situations. If you know you really need the extra hybrid battery power for a climb, I’m sure you can manually top it off with one of the drive modes or paddle shifter on the wheel.
@@ALMX5DP 2.5 naturally aspirated for all that might be a heavy load.
@@dongidongi it might be, but with nearly 200hp and tq and a good range of transmission ratios and I’m sure it will get you where you need to go maybe just not in a hurry. I’ve towed 3500lbs with less horsepower and torque so unless you’re also towing with this and a full load of passengers and cargo, should be just fine. But like I said can also manually regen the battery if you anticipate such a scenario.
how much faster than the speed limit do you want to go with a PHEV...
As a PHEV the traction battery should never be truly depleted. It will switch to hybrid mode somewhere in the 15-20% and then work just like any hybrid would.
A hybrid that gets 25 mpg!?!??! What's the point!?!??!
Not just a hybrid, a plug-in hybrid. The electric range is an important piece of the puzzle. -Travis
If you've already depleted the battery driving in EV only mode, are you then limited to driving a 5000 lbs vehicle with a 189 HP combustion engine? That sounds like a very painful proposition.
The system will switch to hybrid mode at 20% battery capacity so you still have some juice left if needed for a short term boost. However, at this point, the 189 Hp 4 cylinder will not only be moving 5.000 lbs but also charging the battery. Hopefully some reviewer will test this out.
@@clarkkent9080 Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like the total 323 HP doesn't last for very long then. That is bad for such a heavy vehicle.
@@armaniusmaximus I really don't understand the need for high HP. I have a CX-5 with that same 4 cylinder and drive 10 mph over the posted "recommended" limit. Just yesterday, I passed two trucks, each towing trailers in a relatively short distance and had all the passing power I needed. Of course the CX-90 is much heaver but I don't see needing the battery boost in most normal driving.
You must be young or you would remember that V8 cars from the 1980s did just fine on 120-140 Hp..The 1980 Corvette with the L82 high output engine was only rated at 230Hp.
How times have changed
@@clarkkent9080 I went through 2 CX5's with the naturally aspirated 180 HP engine. They were fun to drive. The 6 speed auto really helped that engine. I then "upgraded" to a CX9 with the turbo 4 with 250 HP (when using premium), and that was even better, even for a heavier car. I test drove the CX90 two weeks ago with inline 6 turbo with 340 HP. Decent pickup, but you could feel that the vehicle needed every bit of power to move the 5000 lbs. The PHEV version is about 5200 lbs.
@@clarkkent9080 Thanks for saying I'm young!!! :) But I do remember the V8 Mustangs with a 225 HP engine from the late 80s. That car was light though. And the Montecarlo was a beast that easily beat the Mustang.
Chrysler Pacifica??? Only 7 seats? ...perhaps officially but there is no way anyone is sitting 3-across in the 3rd row of this Mazda, whereas it's easy and comfortable in the minivan.
A Mazda will not be in the shop most of its life like the Pacifica
Don't want 3rd row seat. I'll wait & see about CX-70 which is rumored no 3rd row. More cargo space good for camping and all that extra carrying around. I wish H Pilot had about same configuration.
Mazda still lacks interior space. They should get rid of the nonexistent 3rd row.
What's with these minivan substitudes? Stupid third row, captain seats and no options! If I need that, I am way better off with minivan!
you are 100% correct but you know why Americans don't drive a minivan.
Styling is a bit meh compared to the Euro-spec CX-60. I'm crossing my fingers that the CX 70 looks like the 60 and not the 90.
Since when did anyone start taking styling cues from you?
@@stevechandy7348 Alex asked in the video for opinions about the styling.
Baby steps for Mazda. When they get into the full EV game I will again consider buying them.
Why do they have to have a full EV for you to consider again?
@@ALMX5DP Once you experience power and efficiency of electric motors, it's impossible to go back. I have had 2 Mazda3's, 3 Miata's, and 2 CX-5's. I'm a huge Mazda fan, but driving gas now is just lackluster. Oh and the convenience of charging at home, sitting in my car for an hour on lunch w immediate heat or air without having to let the vehicle idle, one pedal driving...just to name a few. Come on Mazda.
@@TheAdventureAuto sure but a PHEV has many if not all of those aspects as well right?
@@ALMX5DP Except you still have a gas engine which requires all of that additional maintenance and a small battery not allowing for anything but city trips on electricity. And slow acceleration because they're using small motors.
@@TheAdventureAuto Well good for you if a full BEV meets your needs.. I think electric power is great as well. However, some of us need to take long trips and spending an hour to recharge every 200-250 miles is not an option even if a charging station is available…not to mention in cold climates where range dramatically declines. But I guess there are those wealthy people who can afford multiple vehicles..
I just can't get past that rear end... you can really tell it's just a stretched CX-60
For me the only thing that matters is the interior and the top of the hood as that is all I see when driving. Why care what other people see?
you cant get 8 seats on the PHEV!
8 seat is only on base model.
The PHEV costs $ 8,478 (with tax) more than the inline 6 and can only go 25 miles on electric. The inline 6 has a combined 25 mpg so the most the PHEV will save you is 1 gallon of gas per day. Divide $8,478 by your price per gallon and that is how many days you would have to drive to just break even, not considering the cost of battery replacement sometime after 100K miles. For may area that is 2,826 driving days or 9.05 years if you drive 6 days a week. Can someone explain why Mazda thought this PHEV was a good idea?
Check that pricing, looks like it is about $3,000 cheaper than the inline 6 at the top trim level.
@@bhmbill I did and it is correct for the base trim. I guess that I am not a 60+ grand buyer. Paying 20 grand more for power tilt when I set it once or wood and cloth trim that is a dirt magnet is not for me. The important stuff (power train) is identical for 20 k less
@@bhmbill I am not talking trim levels. Yes the inline 6 starts at select while the PHEV starts at preferred. If you are comp ring trim features you have to decide if those features are worth the cost. I was comparing PHEV vs Inline 6 fuel cost savings and if comparing select inline 6 to preferred PHEV my numbers are correct. If you compare preferred inline 6 to preferred PHEV the difference is half of my numbers
this looks like a new car from 7 years ago
For that price you also need to consider the Tesla Model Y which is also getting the full tax credit
Best Japanese luxury suv on sale period
Cramped inside=useless
That's your point of view
It amazes me how behind the times Mazda continues to be.
oh come on. this car has "old people car" written all over it.
Why do I have this sense that this will sell even more poorly than the CX-9??
You Tell first
Why do I have the sense that you are a knucklehead.
Hybrid gas mileage is atrocious
The PHEV costs $ 8,478 (with tax) more than the inline 6 and can only go 25 miles on electric. The inline 6 has a combined 25 mpg so the most the PHEV will save you is 1 gallon of gas per day. Divide $8,478 by your price per gallon and that is how many days you would have to drive to just break even, not considering the cost of battery replacement sometime after 100K miles. For may area that is 2,826 driving days or 9.05 years if you drive 6 days a week. Can someone explain why Mazda thought this PHEV was a good idea?
Mazda and others need to wake up to the Koreans as the Sorento hybrid gets 35mpg. Sub 30s is a joke for 2023 for a hybrid.
This is significantly larger than the Sorento, with more power.
It's like a foot longer and 3" wider than the Sorento.
@@CrazyWeeMonkey even a more direct comparison, the Toyota highlander hybrid still gets more mpg then the Mazda. It's going to be a tough sell for Mazda, especially if phevs keep popping up.
@@ChrisParayno mazda is RWD and will drive a lot better and build quality in the mazda way better
@@ChrisParayno
The previous Highlander Hybrid had a V6 and got fuel economy in a similar realm to this CX-90 with slightly less performance.
I wonder what will mazu feel when KN EV9 7 passangers begins to arrive in US?
Will mazu ceo starts to 💩 on their 🩲? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I rather choose KN EV9 for long 360 miles range and look with 180 deegree turn on middle seat with way better looks and many models.
Buy the way Go SF Warriors 2 achieve 2023 NBA Championship.
Why don't any of them understand
50 mile per charge then switch to gas !!!!
Only need to burn gas on a rare long trip.
My Honda clarity does it all except tow my boat.
At 4:05 I noticed you kept seeing 25 miles per gallon but I saw somewhere in this video where it said 56 miles per gallon so which is it because that’s very very important to be misleading on or not accurate on.
56 mpg equivalent when fully charged.