2024 Mazda CX-90 PHEV: Something is lost when adding a plug
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2023
- After driving the home run that is the @MazdaUSA CX-90 Turbo S, MotoMan tries the one with the plug, the 2024 Mazda CX-90 Plug In Hybrid. In the process, he learns the bits that make the Mazda CX90 Turbo excellent don’t exactly translate to the Mazda CX-90 PHEV . . .
#Mazda #MazdaCX90 #CX90
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This really is one of the prettiest crossovers on the market. It is just gorgeous.
Such a beautiful vehicle. Worth every penny. Sure the Grand Highlander offers more room, but I think the CX-90 is just fine practicality wise.I kept thinking this test vehicle was the CX-60 because of the colour and the 4 cylinder, haha. Agreed that a 6 cylinder PHEV would be incredible.
I still wishfully awaiting a new Mazda 6 sedan, wagon, and 2-door coupe version of this platform and powertrain.
Agree with you on being better than Toyota, with the added weight of 17 kwh battery plus 3.3L engine.. the car will be inefficient in EV mode or idle mode.. it will never have the character of 3.3 mild hybrid anyways..
I heard it's limited by the transmission, it's close to the max torque it can handle.
I would take the CX 90 PHEV any day over the grand Highlander which is front wheel drive with a ECVT transmission remind you. The Mazda has a traditional eight speed automatic and yes it does Shift through the gears even when in pure electric driving. The Mazda is a drivers SUV through and through. With rear wheel drive .❤ #ZoomsInWithTheMazdaAllDayLong
Getting mine this Wednesday. Perfect for my daily grind which is 5k one way which is driving the kids to school and back. Probably wont need to fill up for a month or two.
Also, the third row are for kids, i know everybody wants to demo adults back there, but unless you pay me by the minute, i would never sit in the third row of any vehicle.
HA! I am going to steal that line the next time commenters give me crap for not testing the third row:)
The PHEV gets 25 miles of EV range or 25 miles (EPA combined ) on ONE gallon of gasoline. In most parts of the country, it costs more in electricity to charge that battery than 1 gallon of gas. And you get that option for $4,000. It cost LESS to operate in on gasoline than in EV mode.
You have commented this same comment on NUMEROUS reviews. And you are WRONG. So sorry you can’t math correctly.
@@marshalljames5640 Yea you would think that given most reviewers are getting 25 miles of EV range and the EPA gasoline millage on the window sticker says 25 Miles Per Gallon (combined millage), That they would realize that battery charge only saves you ONE gallon of gas at best. I mean you don't even have to use your calculator on your cell to realize that. So that applies to every PHEV review.
And for those areas of the country where electricity is cheap and gas is expensive, even charging and running EV every day would take YEARS just to break even on that $4,000 PHEV option.
SO if your "sorry you can’t math correctly", I am sorry you can't grammar correctly
I have the PHEV and love it. To me, the MUCH better efficiency and fuel economy is worth the compromise compared to the awesome straight six. It’s a family hauler in my world. It still looks amazing and drives even better - far better than anything in its class and even better than some above its class.
Probably a fair way to look at it.
@@MotoManTV I have it and dont love it. It doesnt drive like a mazda - off the line it drives like a shopping cart - and it feels like the entire time you are driving the thing you are downshifting. Makes for a very herky jerky experience. I miss my CX9 so much.
The PHEV gets 25 miles of EV range or 25 miles (EPA combined ) on ONE gallon of gasoline. In most parts of the country, it costs more in electricity to charge that battery than 1 gallon of gas. And you get that option for $4,000.
@@clarkkent9080I covered 234 miles for $34 using electricity. Have I done this with a vehicle that gets 25 MPG, I would pay $48 to cover same distance at $5.20/gal gas price at pumps now.
Everyone needs to do their calculus, but for me I am saving on gas. 🤷♂️
@@David_Journey I agree that everyone should do the calculation. It really wasn't that hard was it? Simple math.
BTW, based on that $4,000 PHEV option cost, you will have to drive 66,857 miles on EV just to break even on that option cost. But you are correct that after that you will be saving money.
Most people buy PHEV because their commutes are short and they can use the vehicle as an EV. I ordered PHEV over Inline 6 Turbo because most of my commutes are within 5-10 minutes and it's really bad for the gasoline engine to run cold frequently.
I also like the fact you can keep the AC on while waiting at the ferry line-up or waiting to pick up kids from school. Note that gasoline engine still kicks in if you need to defrost/defog the windshield in the snow/rain. It's usually not a problem if you park inside a garage and have 2nd row heated seats (on higher trims) for kids.
The PHEV gets 25 miles of EV range or 25 miles (EPA combined ) on ONE gallon of gasoline. In most parts of the country, it costs more in electricity to charge that battery than 1 gallon of gas. And you get that option for $4,000. It cost LESS to operate in on gasoline than in EV mode.
It depends which "country" you are referring to. Here on Vancouver Island, Canada, you are looking at 5.50 USD per US Gallon for regular gasoline. Thanks to all the dams and beavers, our _highest_ rate for electricity is 0.13 USD per kWh. Suppose that the 17.8 kWh battery pack is what takes to run 25 miles, that will cost me 2.31 USD, or 58% less than gasoline.
But I also want to point out... Even after you break even from the extra PHEV cost (after rebates), the battery pack will degrade and that may still cost extra in the long run (12-15 years). The cost depends on how much it takes to repair/replace the battery pack or the gasoline engine, or the differences in resale value.
So for most people, you just need an Inline 6 Turbo.
@@chih123 Yes, in the Pacific Northwest electricity is cheap (hydro) and gasoline is expensive. I don't know how it is in Canada but in the U.S. 30% of my electric bill is tax and fees so the actual cost per Kwh is much higher that what the utility charges.
But lets use your example and 15 Kwh to charge the battery. You save $3.55 per charge. Assuming 5 charges per week, you save $923 per year. It would take you 4.3 years just to break even on the $4,000 PHEV option cost. And your situation is the highest savings that I think you will find anywhere in Canada or America.
My commutes are so short and it will take me 7 years to break even. LOL!
My calculations included all taxes. The actual electricity cost will be lower since we only hit the higher tier rate during winters.
I think PHEV is for people who may:
- Have mostly short (less than 15 mins) commutes and want to extend the life of their gasoline engines.
- Keep their PHEV for 10 years (or have extra money).
- Need extra comfort (air conditioning or heated seats) while idling/waiting.
- Need a super quiet 1500 W generator to power their freezer(s) during outages (or espresso machine while camping).
- Keep the air clean at low speed zones for bikers, pedestrians, and ferry workers.
- Have more refined driving experience cruising at low speed (traffic jams) in comparing with the Inline 6 (idle start, clutching back and forth more than wanted).
@@chih123 I was actually very interested in the CX-90 PHEV until I did the calculation.
Here in the southeastern U.S where gas prices are low and electric cost high, I would never break even.
I hope you enjoy the Mazda, I have had 3 and would put them up against Toyota and Lexis for quality and reliability.
I completely agree with you on the straight 6 being the better choice in this vehicle. When they said 2.5 turbo paired with the PHEV I was out. I thought you were going for a Ferris Bueller’s Day Off kind of ending and then you tease us on more Coleman. Bravo sir!
Funny story. Coleman was supposed to shoot with me while I had this car and I was going to release a separate episode again, but sooner. Then, Hiroshima dumped a big project on him - I am hoping it was becoming the chief engineer of the FE RX-7, but we are going to shoot a 'HOW & WHY I BUILT IT' with the PHEV next month.
The X5 PHEV starts at $72.5k. Without a 3rd row on offer. I think the CX-90 PHEV is a good value for those looking for a midsize CUV PHEV.
I wish people would stop bringing up BMW around this car. They don’t really compare just because i6+rwd. The 50e is more or a bargain alternative to the cayenne hybrid because it does what that does but at a lower price and nearly just as good. This CX-90 is a to-be trendsetter for the non-premium brand 3 row SUV segment where everyone has the same FWD recipe that really hasn’t ever been used to their full utilitarian potential.. This has the dynamics of something much more with the familiarity of a “normal” asian 3 row family car. Breathing life into cars like the highlander and pathfinder? Pretty much all of those brands have the funds or platforms to truly go head to head with this driving dynamics wise.
@@sandiegoavgeek6 Why not? I had 1 X5 and 2 X6 and Cayenne, and have CX-90 PHEV on order. It's definitely not as refined as the Germans but it's good for the money. It drive pretty close to the Germans, much better than anything else in its class, don't forget it's 20cm longer than Cayenne and has 25cm longer wheelbase. BTW. Cayenne has much better chassis and suspension than X5, X5's inline 6 is a master piece but everything else Cayenne is better. I think CX-90 is a bargain to X5 for the same reason you think X5 is a bargain to Cayenne. BTW. I don't like the new interior of Cayenne after facelift.
@@GooseVan I can agree on the cayenne interior and yes you could look at the CX90 and X5 as I look at the X5 and cayenne, I personally feel like after a certain point that becomes pointless and a whole other subject/search
Dude - can we get a review of THIS car please? You talk more about the turbo S in this video than the car you’re driving. Gheesh.
Excellent review. Thank you for presenting information in a cogent manner to the layman without dumbing it down.
My pleasure.
I think if you put your foot to the floor in EV mode you can go past the kick down to engage the combustion engine again.
Thank you for the hard look into the PHEV, Motoman!! Weight is nearly always the enemy.
Looking forward to the lighter base 280hp 6 cyl turbo CX-90 and whether the 200 lbs less helps enough with the lower hp motor.
Well. Wait until the maintenance between the Inline 6 and the 2.5 4 cylinders, then you'll see which one will cost more, check out Car Care Nut for the explanation.
After having this PHEV for a week, my thinking for optimizing the fuel efficiency is to run on strictly EV mode for in-town commute, grocery. On highway, switch to Normal / Sport mode, as it will alternate between ICE and EV mode, and it delivers great power while very efficient wirh the regenerative braking on the highway.
Loving this vehicle so far.
Agreed. No one is talking about the $7500 rebate on the lease either. It was cheaper to lease and then finance vs financing from the get go. I installed a Level 2 charger and calculated $3000+ in gas savings a year. The Inline 6 Turbo is fun for sure, but the PHEV made way more sense to me. And it’s so quiet. I also love that I can cool off the car here in FL when it’s sitting in the garage without worrying about killing my family lol.
Still waiting for the CX-70 phev later this year. That'll be the better one, especially for not needing three rows.
This car is the perfect pitch for the target demographic. It is not intended to be a race car. For most people, it will cut the cost of gas by over 50%. That is a HOME RUN in itself.
Very intrigued: when you say for the Traverse "a train wreck of an interior," what do you mean? Poor quality materials? Layout?
Saying this as a guy who grew up on GM cars and still have a soft spot in my heart for GM cars: The Traverse interior is an excellent example of 'a pizza so cheap no one will eat it'. The materials are a study in taking all the cost out thus rendering it bargain basement.
I'm surprised by some of the comments as the PHEV is faster off the line than the inline 6.
he seems to think otherwise at 3:16
It has been interesting to watch the different reviews of this car. Whereas some reviewers have loved the 2.5 and others the 3.3 Liter they have focused on the same thing, issues with each transmission. Personally, much as I love a six cylinder, I'd probably go with the 2.5 liter simply because the engine is under less strain due to the electric motor.
CX-90 PHEV vs CX-90 turbo inline 6 vs Highlander Hybrid? Tough decision.
@MotoManTV The PHEV 0-60 is 6.6 seconds (source: kelley blue book). The non-PHEV 0-60 is 6.5 seconds (source: motortrend). While you are quick to point out the differences, the performance of the PHEV still remains respectable. Perhaps your dissatisfaction is mostly psychological to some extent?
He didn’t drag race it, he drove it as anyone would. He didn’t say it was less quick, he said the total package isn’t as well stitched together as the i6 and for obvious reasons.
Wish it came with NACS.
Hey Motoman. I was waiting for this review. While I was waiting for your review a few other reviewers noticed some hiccups with the transmission of the turbo S when they test it for a second time and lived with it for a week. Did you notice anything with the tranny? It might not have been picked up while having it for a short spurt.
As mentioned in the comments of my initial drive, did not notice anything after driving it for a day. That said, we do plan on taking a Turbo for a week or more and will pay attention to it.
@@MotoManTV Thanks. I will be on the lookout for that review Motoman
@@josefernandez2722 100%. This car in any iteration is consonantly downshifting. it makes for a herky jerky driving experience. Its an 8 speed that feels like a 10 speed. Downshifting into oblivion.
Well, they added a PHEV economy version versus performance version and I agree with your wishlist. That was the wrong direction for a driving machine. Yes give us a few more mpg’s but how about a smoother power delivery and swifter start that also lets you scoot around in all EV to boot. Hopefully they are listening about the key as annoyances like this ruins the premium touch this otherwise well equipped SUV has. 14:40
Size wise the Highlander but the interior on this looks like a much nicer place to be. Mazda has been good at that for a while now.
Not certain if you saw our Grand Highlander review, but in the right colors, that car is far better than expected. Yes, not the Mazda, but if size it what you prize, worth a look over all others. ruclips.net/video/Hx-dnhP90h0/видео.html
@@MotoManTV I saw it. It's not bad but if I were in the market for a baby buggy, I'd do the Mazda in Turbo S trim.
Can you even get a GH in the states? Dealer in NJ told us last weekend they are 9-12 months out
They should use the 2.5 L Turbo for the PHEV.
Isn’t necessary… you really should test drive one.
Let me ask this who goes Canton carving in a 6/7/8 seater? Do you know what happens when you do that? People start throwing up!
Instead of talking about the driving dynamics of a 3 row crossover, why not talk about how it accommodates people.
When test driving a PHEV, why not tell us about the hybrid system. How is it to drive? Is it responsive or dead like the one in Toyotas. How's the hybrid system feel? Is it polished and imperceptible or rough and clunky. How does it drive in the different modes - hybrid/ EV/etc....
Come on MotoMan, you are usually better than this..
You say the PHEV can't be fitted with a towing package, but that's not what the Mazda website says. A towing package is an option to add.
The reality with our first drive opportunities is this: Not all information is available that early. Most OEMs are still tweaking options, pricing and packaging. After this drive, they made the change to offer the towing package.
Agree with all points ...
I wish base turbo was set up to take advantage of premium fuel and power increase .... so 280hp on 87 octane would turn into 305ish hp on beloved Shell93.
Than TurboS while in sports mode could add 5 seconds of extra few PSI boost while in heavy acceleration process for 5 seconds of say extra 40hp what would make it drop to mid 5sec 0 to 60 that it needs to better compete with BMW and true Lux brands ... also gauges better than 22K Mazda 3 should be used on base models ...
Again another of the small things…the rear door lock. Big car companies like that not thinking things all the way through. Amazing!
I agree with you wouldn’t it be cool if the plug in had that 6 cyl. engine? Maybe call it a Plug Turbo S?
You can have the front door-handle sensor unlock all four doors by changing the settings in the infotainment. Not perfect, but an improvement and should be the default setting.
The PHEV is faster in the 0-60 vs the Turbo S.
he seems to think otherwise at 3:16
@@Vlican There are several videos on RUclips that say the PHEV is faster.
@@robertwilliam9558 oh I know, most other reviewers mention the PHEVs delivery of power is far more immediate than the inline 6 due to the electric motor's instantaneous torque.
I'm buying one. I have a short low speed commute, 15 miles round trip. I will use no gas on weekdays and I will enjoy the power and decent mpg on the freeway. I've owned a BMW sedan with an inline 6. I've also driven both the Turbo S and the PHEV and the bottom line is they both drive really well for a 3 row SUV.
I want one. But heard d timing chain is at d back of d engine & water pump. Didn't make sense. If u have to change pump. Youd have to remove half of d engine.
Mazda all the way
This is going to be a very popular vehicle. "Cohesive" or not . . .
You can't unlock the doors with the key fob?
Please let's do this with the 24' Lexus GX (should of been called Toyota LC300)..
Have something else in mind . . .:)
@@MotoManTV 💯💯
Really wish the turbo S could be had with the black cladding over body colored especially in the white. The contrast looks better. Really bummed the base turbo doesn’t get laminated side windows
Get your vehicle wrapped in black for the parts you want done
Where is the episode with the promised "techno babble". It's been 3 months!
Good question. Short answer: Mr Coleman is crazy busy on a work project. He has promised to fulfill his obligation once he is back from Japan. Translated: A new model introduction is imminent and will have his fingerprints all over it.
@@MotoManTV Exciting! Thanks for the update.
So if your focus is more on the third row and having a PHEV than driving dynamics and sexy looks, I think I’d consider the Pacifica PHEV. Minivans are not sexy but they are so practical. Your get more range on the electric and it’s a lot easier to use the third row. It also gets the $7500 tax credit and they’ve been making them for a while. I have a RAV4 Prime and love driving in electric mode. I have no need for a third row, but I like watching Motoman’s videos.
Actually PHEV Cx90 doesn't qualify for EV federal tax credit due to it being made in Japan. I really think the US government should modify that law.
You misread what I wrote. It’s the Pacifica that I’m saying gets the tax credit. I looked it up on the IRS website before I posted because they have been making so many changes this year. I mention it because I’ve watched a lot of EV car reviews where the main selling feature is the third row. Most of the time it looks like something you’d only want to use every once in a while and in some cases only when it’s absolutely necessary. So if that third row is really important and you are not worried about being cool, then the minivan seems like a good choice.
@@peterfessier9780 You're right. My brother has the regular Pacifica and he loves it. He traded in his Highlander for it.
I see where you are coming from, and putting aside the fact that I would rather be put in a used port a pottie in the dead of summer in Texas and turned upside down than drive a Minivan, most folks can't see their way to Minivan because they ain't cool . . . Something tells me the kind of folks that buy EVs will be more open to them when you start seeing EVs in that form factor.
I would prefer a totally different PHEV; similar to the MX-30 R-EV: only driven by electric motors with an EV range of about 100 kilometres. The engine works only as a electric generator.
That's basically what the Mitsubishi Outlander is now, and even has a heat pump so it doesn't only rely on the engine for cabin heat.
@@Snerdles The engine of the Outlander also drives the car at certain speeds, as far as I know. Nissan has a similar concept but you cannot charge the battery.
@That's true, the Outlander has one clutch to engage the engine to wheels at highway speeds. It does that because using the engine to generate electricity, then push that to a battery, then extract it for use is very inefficient compared to just a clutch driving wheels. That's why the hybrid mode gas usage figures are so terrible compared to vehicles that use mechanical links like the RAV4 Prime.
Mazda is still pretty new at the EV game, and they'll get there.
Agreed.
@@MotoManTV I think it will be fascinating to see what they do with the Miata. I would guess a hybrid, but that means added weight.
I'd rather have the Turbo S.
You and me both.
Artisan Red, not Artesian Red
Macan GTS
This vehicle isn't for performance tho... If someone at mazda put that in your head, they need to be fired... Cause this review was performance based for a vehicle that isn't built for that
I would say PHEV setup for CX-90 is designed for performance. Not for fuel economy. 25 mpg is not good at all. If not for performance then PHEV CX-90 is very confusing on what this car is trying to achieve.
@@geosch9956 over 500 miles per tank + ev isn't good fuel economy? You must be crazy if you think that's not good miles. Mazda isn't about performance anymore. They were that up until they got rid of Mazdaspeed. After that, their entire mindset changed.
Uh uh uh . . . MAZDA put that idea in all our heads . . . for years.
the headlight looks ordinary...maybe a more slim shape will make it look more modern
Why would you need 340 horsepower? Overcompensating maybe?
it's a heavy vehicle... even with that much HP, it's still 6+ seconds to 60mph
I really listen for the facts, how far does it go on battery only what is it like battery only. Why would anyone expect a hybrid battery car to behave like a 350 hp car. And who would buy a lumbering suv instead of a real car with road manners. whoever writes these thing has it all backwards.
Mazda will never be Lexus
A Lexus will never drive as well as a Mazda.
All Hybrid's are POS's. Its a flawed premise is why. Adding copious weight and complexity for diminishing return on performance. A false value equal equation that only exists for mfr profit, largely to sell failed components out of warranty, like batteries and countless computers. This vehicle has 100 computers.
But, you were wrong about the Turbo in line six as well. The transmission is abysmal in that vehicle with no torque converter. Harsh and delayed shifts.
Be a sucker and either buy the hybrid or a complete clean sheet of paper driveline with straight six and a transmission already begging for a class action law suit all the while Mazda performs their beta testing on their customers.
Good luck to the consumer who are uttlerly clueless about automotive technology. Reviewers don't get it either but at least sensible enough to know the hybrid architecture kills driving enjoyement. Much more to the insidious nature of hybrids which will cost the consumer big time for those who can't afford to flip them under warranty.
Conventional gas cars will have crank position and ABS sensor failures randomly....maybe a MAF or a coil pack. Hybrid vehicles? Hold my Bud Light. 2.5 x's the technical complexity of vehicles with single gas engine. 2 powertrains + interfacing electronics. A joke on society. A hustle.
This automotive engineer's perspective.
I appreciate your perspective here. Out of curiosity, what is your choice for a 3 row CUV?
@@wyaldkingdomsee the recent Scotty Kilmer video about minivans. Especially the comment added by someone that worked at a rental company to drive their vehicles to where needed. The hybrids from Toyota are usually reliable to about 175 thousand miles, if you plan on driving it longer get a regular gasoline engine instead. The Cars that last RUclips videos are a good source for reliable older vehicles. Other than pandemic inflation, most are probably better off buying used vehicles with about 50 thousand miles.
@@wyaldkingdom There are a host of considerations when buying any genre of vehicle. But the closer you stay to tried and true, proven hardware....like Honda's decision to slightly refine its excellent 3.5l V6 and conventional torque converter transmission like on their new Honda Pilot will give you many, many miles of reliable performance outside of warranty.
If possible, stay away from turbos and hybrid technology, CVT's and dual clutch transmissions. If you plan on long terms ownership, consider the cost of replacing a 22 inch wide curved display now starting to pop up in the industry...which will likely cost 2 x's the cost of smart TV if pixels start to fail.
Even consider a Telluride with slightly less power, normally aspirated V6 and conventional automatic transmission. Can't beat their 10 year warranty even if Hyundai and Kia aren't quite up to Honda and Toyota.
BMW and German brands like MB and Audi really created the marketing strategy to fleece customers through high maintenance cost, needless complexity with very little value added. Mazda is catching on now, this model being proof positive. Sandwiching an electric motor between the engine and this ill fated robot shifting manual transmission is as close to an irresponsible 'marketing decision' as any car company could make. How about Toyota? Toyota who used to be an honest brand and is now making as many hybrids as they can for one reason alone, Profit. The customer loses in vehicle initial purchase price, no real performance gain, worse NVH...most have CVT's...and excessive complexity and commensurate long term high reliability cost. Complicated machines statistically fail more often.
There are 58,920 reasons why mazda will be out of business soon….and no plans for EV’s.
Beg to differ. Toyota will buy them before that happens.
Get real…
Yes, they are one of the top manufacturers producing very high quality vehicles inside and out, not to mention 60% of their buyers purchase the top trims on offer. 🤣 what the hell are you smoking? It ain’t the good siht that’s for sure.
I'm thinking the same. Six cylinder + hybrid. 👍