man honestly the story just looks like such a horrific slog and i do legitimately hate a21. i hate her kit. i hate her weird fetishy design and overly sexual voice
@@MoldyBagel Then play it in japanese, at least one of the problems will be gone Pd: I am a 21 player and even for me, some of her moves feel kinda... Weird (?)
@@MoldyBagel I think you can unlock her without doing the story, just like with the SSB Goku and Vegeta. Either A: you pay for one of the deluxe editions of the game (useless for all but brand new players), or B: Zeni grind. Since now she's also purchasable in the capsule shop. Earning enough Zeni unlocks the blue boys and I think more unlocks A21, but maybe they got rid of that when you could buy her. Hope this information helps.
@@MoldyBagel I feel like her ridiculously fanservicey design is fun to me and makes her obviously popular to the fanbase. But you’re right about story mode, it’s a pain in the ass to go through because the fights are so goddamn _boring._ I might as well look through cutscenes. Which is a shame, because apparently, 21 has a really sympathetic backstory.
@@aclosh2983 I mean, you can _fix_ it, but he's still not wrong. SD is a representation of an aspect of the anime that is itself unique for a martial arts show: battles in 360° on the ground or in mid-air, because by the Z era every character can just casually fly, which completely changes how battles can be choreographed. To get back to the game itself, SD _not_ being there would kinda remove a few key aspects of the game's identity, in both gameplay and marketing point of "This is an accurate representation of the Dragon Ball Feel". So, like, Inferno's got a fair point. I still agree with you about it needing to be fixed and that new gameplay mechanics would be neat, though. You're onto something with that one.
@@MoldyBagel ooh, good to know! I mean it makes sense, but still, thanks a ton for the useful explanation as always. The video really helped to formulate this point better.
@@Chill-Meister700 I think that’s just because it’s competitive scene is much smaller. If you’re playing MK you just know you’re dealing with tons of jank
Watching this again, I really like how you time basically almost everything with the music, especially even with the smallest touch like Piccolo's jumping light attack there. Definitely top notch.
To be somewhat fair to superdash, there’s not a lot of fighting games with this mechanic so it’s kind of hard to really determine what works and what doesn’t and what’s balanced and what’s more broken then UI Goku. Yeah a lot of games have aerial dashs and the like but the only game I can maybe think of with a mechanic similar to the superdash is Arcana Heart 3’s homing dash and in comparison superdash is way faster then the homing dash and Arcana is a 1 on 1 fighter as opposed to a 3 on 3 fighter.
Yes its true, also Arcana Heart dash is limited by dash meter, you cant spam it as you please like in DBFZ. As for speed, the Arcana Heart superdash (or "homing attack" in their language) is heavily dependent on your character condition. If you do a high jump before you do superdash, then the speed of your superdash become significantly faster, compared to when you just do a normal jump. Also the superdash doesnt hit confirm by itself on contact, but you need to actually press the respective hit button of your choice to attack (and it doesnt auto lift like youre doing an actual aerial combo starter too, making it extremely conditional in air-to-air situation). It shares a same weakness by vulnerable to block and anti air attack, but the Camera play on Arcana heart doesnt literally make your enemy character vanish when you jump out offscreen, making it easier to be predicted.
Something similar is also found on Touhou SWR or Hisoutensoku (th10.5/th12.3) There's an universal mechanic where characters can dash around and float in the air, effectively dodging(grazing) bullets thrown at you but is counterable by physical/melee attacks. Think of it as an airdash that is only limited in duration by meter, can also be used as a sprint, can move in all 8 directions, and beats zoners.
@@RenShinomiya121 Another point is that when you dash, you can't change your direction. So, you can still be punished. Unless you're Yuyuko. She can just turn on a dime and fuck with people.
I honestly would love to see more in-depth dbfz analyses in this format, like sparking and fighter-unique toolsets, gimmicks, etc. or maybe even a complete guide to dbfz! Great job MoldyBagel love your videos keep it up!
To be fair to Bamco, Superdash seems like a really hard mechanic to implement, both in terms of coding and balance. I’m surprised they’ve done as well as they have.
All those superdash tracking whiffs actually make sense, is just the characters getting distracted during the flight, and then remembering where they were going
@@kingdripgaming623 I fucking hate how much I played that game as a kid, like I was training to become some competitive master at goddamn *Ultimate Tenkaichi.*
I always have a good time when playing DBFZ, even when I'm losing, I just cheer the enemy up and learn his moves to train and become better But when it's UI goku Oh god when it's UI goku
hmm it’s hard. First off I’m not a massive brain when it comes to this game but I would make it easier to stop in the air. I mean not by a lot but it would kinda stop the whole random super dash thing that people do. Also this may sound a bit weird but when super dashes reflect small ki blast maybe it would slow it down. Not but much but so it’s sort of noticeable. So then it would be more easy to react to. I don’t know what this would look like in actual games. Tho I know it definitely needs a few tweaks. Shit like 0:42 and 0:35 is cursed.
This video made me realize how little I use super dash. I usually just move normally because super dash just seems risky to me. I'm usually patient so reacting to them is just kinda a second sense. That being said I think SD is part of dbfz so I rather it stay. After all most loops and normal b&b combos need it. I feel like without SD dbfz would be just another anime fighter
Great video. I will make a few comments just on the general design discussion. I think super dash is an important mechanic, but it could use a few changes to make things more punishable I feel. You brought up raw tag, which is a good point. I think raw tag, rather than be a super dash, should be a jump in, like when characters get snapped out. Give a short vulnerability, that way you can switch without getting off for free basically, and make the first character have to hop off screen before the second pops on, to remove the ability to skip pressure. More akin to guard cancelling is the solution imo. Generally though, I think superdash is good as it is. There are those cursed interactions and windows and whatnot, but most times I don't feel like high level dbfz is decided by superdashes. If I could have any nerf on it, it would be requiring it to be done in the air, similarly to Roshi beam
That drawing of 21 is super funny🤣 I guess you were one of the many that didn't complete the hero arc in story mode,I get that many only wants to play fighterz for the rank matches,or that the fights against the clones can be super boring(because of the really low difficulty that even people that never played fighting game can beat pretty easly,or the really limited number of stages that makes the gameplay feel so repetitive and boring),but I had a lot of fun with the interactions between characters of the db franchise throughout this original dragon ball story, an the possibility to unlock more arcs and play (for example)as the villains,is so cool (is very rare in dragon ball games to be playing with a villain during story mode),and the possibility to unloack a character that is a final boss in a fighting game, I always found that so cool and rare,so much so that I got really attached to 21,that I made her my main for online play,and this,since season 1. Anyway,great vid,and i agree with everything you said for this video 100%, i hope you can make tons of quality video like this;like you always did! Sorry if my English is not that good,but I'm practicing,like I'm practicing new routes and combos to perform online with 21😋.
I love super dash personally, I think it makes the game unique and plays into what makes it so fast and agressive It's definitely buggy sometimes though lmao
Buggy shit is fun though. Especially in a casual semi competitive drunken couch fight. I miss when games weren't updated and fucked with. But I'm old so 90s and 2000s was my fighting era. Lol new update for us was a sequel game.
THE RAW TAG REACTION! dude i though i was just imagining that and thought it was just cause I was ass. Bro the only way to beat the raw tag is if you gave them a slight opening and you happened to be going for a 2H in the corner. the tag gets hit by the 2h proceed with air combo into DR switch them back out. super satisfying and makes me feel like my 17 is S Tier.
I feel like the easiest solution here is to give raw tag a startup before it actually switches characters. Even just a few frames of startup gets rid of a lot of the nonsense, makes it riskier to use (which makes sense because of how much reward you get out of it), and makes it easier to react to in many situations so that people play less timid. Superdash in and of itself is actually pretty well balanced and gives the game a really unique identity, but raw tag has got some problems.
I love how i dont play this game but l still love your analyses and hearing your voice was really weard until the text came and i have to praise your edeting man top Ul Goku Tier.
Okay, I have two solutions, one for each Superdash and Raw Tag. Superdash: When superdash is active, two "invisible bubbles" of hitbox detection, or HD, appears around the character Superdashing; the Inner HD, the bubble closest to the character Superdashing has a radius of a quarter to third the respective character size, and the Outer HD, the bubble farthest has a radius equal to that of the respective character size. _For the Outer HD,_ once the outer bubble detects the enemy hitbox, the enemy is "marked" and the character homes in on the enemy itself, theoretically providing better Superdash accuracy for the Inner HD to detect the enemy. However, if the Outer HD detects the enemy hitbox but the character misses the enemy and falls out of the Outer HD's detection, the Superdash will cease, preventing the character from flying sky high aimlessly for a couple of seconds. _For the Inner HD,_ once the inner bubble detects the enemy already marked by the Outer HD, the Superdash cancels out of itself, prompting the player that just Superdashed to input something or get punished doing so. This would allow for mix-ups for both players, making the Superdash a high-risk high reward move that shines better than what it currently does now. Raw Tag: Legit, put 4 frames of start-up vulnerability when the player initiates a "Change!". More specifically, a character will not change out if they are hit during the the 4 frames of vulnerability, and thus are punished for tagging out. As an added visual, if the character is hit during the 4 frames of vulnerability, an X or (/) symbol will appear above the character portrait/flair that was about to be tagged in, putting a 10-second penalty on the player before they can tage in that character again. This would solve invincible tag outs, as well as put a buffer on Raw Tags, making them more reactable. Simple fix, honestly.
Wow, that poll. I think, then, that the sustained popularity of this game actually answers a pretty interesting question in fighting games: If your game is largely defined by a particular mechanic, what does it look like when a very significant portion of your players actively DISLIKES that mechanic? Or, to put it another way, DBFZ proves it’s possible to even _be_ popular at all, if/when a huge number of your fans hate a huge part of your game. It’s just fascinating that apparently a lot of people are playing this game _despite_ that major mechanic, presumably just because they love the other stuff around it that much. In other words, they’re putting up with (arguably) the most pronounced element of the game because they still feel that the rest of the game is good enough to warrant it. It is important to acknowledge the also-significant portion of people who specifically said they like it. If you were to deeply alter or remove that mechanic, presumably some of them would leave. HOWEVER, in terms of survey biases: I think it’s very reasonable to suspect that - the camp of “people who like that mechanic” is more likely to be players who’ve stuck around in the community (and thus were present to vote on this poll) ...whereas... - the camp of “people who dislike that mechanic” almost certainly contains many previous/lapsed players who never even saw this poll (and thus did not vote on it) whether because they’re not actively following the scene anymore or because they already straight-up quit. This would mean there are probably more uncounted opinions on the “dislike” side than on the “like” side. In other words, The fact that “like” and “dislike” percentages on this poll _look_ pretty close to each other is potentially misleading compared to the actual truth. I honestly can’t think of any other fighting game _that’s ever managed to maintain a pretty large community for multiple years_ (credit where credit is due!!) where so many of its players-past and present-seem to agree that one particular aspect of the game is directly detrimental to their enjoyment of the game. The only other game I can think of that even comes close to this would be Marvel 3 with x-factor, and even then, I swear I remember hearing way more people say that the stupidity of x-factor was fun to them. Mannnn, that poll result is honestly kind of nuts. Like, I guess I’m not surprised, but it still feels crazy to actually SEE those numbers confirm what it seemed like the community was saying.
One last thought: Although it provides no additional insights, I think it’s worth mentioning this entire issue is ultimately circling around The Eternal Question: “How much should new updates/versions/titles cater to the people who most-strongly love what’s already there, versus try to capture the people who have never played and/or the people who have already walked away?” More specifically, in what order are you prioritizing the desires of current [insert game] players versus ex-[game] players versus other FGC players versus new FGC members versus non-competitive players (many different sub-groups in this one!) versus novice players versus intermediate players versus advanced players versus high-level players versus top players, etc., etc., etc.
I think they introduced the new "raw rag combos any where anytime" to boost versatility of the ways to put on pressure. Which it does, but at the expense of a cheap mechanic. Choosing assists was a positive step that fixed most of this already in my opinion. Honestly the balance patches now are just crazy, weird, and experimental, because the game is ending.
I think they should make raw superdash cost 25% bar. It gives something to react to better and might make them think about it less. in combos it won’t cost meter so your meter positive combos still let you use supers
Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: clcr.me/MoldyBagel_Raid and get a special starter pack 💥 Available only for the next 30 days. Thanks for watching guys! This video was slightly rushed to adhere to a deadline so please let me know of anything I missed of importance and I will add addendums to this comment. 1. Someone pointed out the difference between a majority and plurality in regard to the opening poll. The result is technically NOT a majority. It is a plurality.
Everyone loves to talk shit on “no neutral” blah blah blah bs on DBFZ but it’s literally the only fighting game I’ve ever played that doesn’t make controlling a supposedly top of the world martial artist feel like driving a fuckin tank
I gotta say I don't even have this game but you're videos and edits are so awesome and funny that I'm now subscribing and buying the game! (Also love the music, I see you're a man of culture as well)
*I have an idea* : They could change the tag splitting in 2 types: normal and the superdash one The normal one you are always safe, the character that you are using just leaves as always, but the second character will pop up with the normal dashing (without flying) from out-screen and then u regain control once he gets completely on-screen near the border where he came from as far away from your adversary, putting both you and the enemy in neutral again. The superdash one it's like the original that we have, but it sostitutes the *neutral one* only during combos (so only when u succefully hit the opponent without him blocking) I think that making a change like this is pretty fair
Our internet actually got downgraded and I currently do not have the upload for it. Sorry for kinda baiting with the stream idea. I may try it again in the future.
6 months late but a thought i had, particularly for a dbfz sequel, is just changing the way super dash's homing works. Make it stiffer, perhaps travelling in a straight line toward the foe's position and changing direction once partway through if they've moved instead of smoothly curving. This both should help it be less prone to weirdass jank AND make it a better mechanic overall because you can more reliably avoid it with good timing to make your opponent miss you, without removing most of its other applications.
I used to hate it but then you taught me that I can uppercut launch bitches when they super dash non stop since it's that or auto combo with most people online, so whenever they dash at me now I see as a free combo, honestly thanks for this tip.
Hmmm, its alright I guess but then imagine the pain in the ass that would be trying to open up zoners, I mean, it would be a frieza and Janemba undirect buff which would be a good thing, but then imagine going against Dbz Broly or SSJ Vegetta
The main use for superdash is to CounterZone or extend combos, the first because of it's ki blast invincibility, and while it isn't the only move to do so, it has tracking and can start (somewhat limited) combos; and that's the main reason the Universal Projectile that is Ki Blast (except for Hit who doesn't have one, Jiren, and UI who have Mini Beams, Krillin who has sick controllable Ki Blasts but still gets fucked anyway, and the Newest addition, Baby who will always try whiff them) isn't used in Zoning at all.
![Dragon Ball FighterZ - What to Do After Super Dash & Extending Combos! [Guide/Tutorial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gCgMFYAzKEM/mqdefault.jpg)
This certainly is a pretty elaborate way of saying "I didn't do story mode for DBFZ".
HAHAHAHA NOOO STOP
You can just unlock her in the shop now
and also not buying fighterz pass 1
@@UltLuigi1 but she’s kinda cheap you can get n whole character with 2000000z
@@-_____-6316 this was also before story mode unlocks were purchasable with zeni
TLDR: UI Goku gets to do whatever he wants because he’s the special-est boy in the whole wide world
exactly
UI Goku gets a glass of choccy milk, because he's epic.
UI Goku is fair and honest.
@@munnymoore His cause is just.
Vegeta:
*cries in corner
“Wake up babe, new moldybagel vid just dropped”
yes honey
Yessir
I’m right there babe 🤤
YEEEES HONEEEEEY
That part in the begining where the superdashes went everywhere was the funniest thing ive ever seen
I love how no one respects Raid and it is basically free sponsor money for the creators. Happy for Bagel affording to live through this channel
I might actually be able to afford to go to school one day because of youtube😭🙂
Thaaat doesn't mean I won't break my phone screen skipping it.
Gotta give props to raid for dropping mad stacks on creators
For the promise of new players
@@MoldyBagel that's good!
@@lionelk.y7233 the money they're giving to creators is nothing to what they gain from attracting vulnerable people....
Super dash has caused more “wait what happened” moments with my friends when we play fighterz than any other game has
Agreed, especially when the game decides to bug out and do stupid things
Oh, didn't expect you here.
Should try out tekken 7 then lmao
Except Melee, probably. I love the game but it's def whack
L e w d
The fact that you haven't unlocked Android 21 is hilarious to me.
man honestly the story just looks like such a horrific slog and i do legitimately hate a21. i hate her kit. i hate her weird fetishy design and overly sexual voice
@@MoldyBagel Then play it in japanese, at least one of the problems will be gone
Pd: I am a 21 player and even for me, some of her moves feel kinda... Weird (?)
@@MoldyBagel i can get that.
@@MoldyBagel I think you can unlock her without doing the story, just like with the SSB Goku and Vegeta. Either A: you pay for one of the deluxe editions of the game (useless for all but brand new players), or B: Zeni grind. Since now she's also purchasable in the capsule shop. Earning enough Zeni unlocks the blue boys and I think more unlocks A21, but maybe they got rid of that when you could buy her. Hope this information helps.
@@MoldyBagel I feel like her ridiculously fanservicey design is fun to me and makes her obviously popular to the fanbase. But you’re right about story mode, it’s a pain in the ass to go through because the fights are so goddamn _boring._ I might as well look through cutscenes. Which is a shame, because apparently, 21 has a really sympathetic backstory.
So in short: DBFZ wouldn't be DBFZ without Superdash.
i agree
i dont agree, maybe for s1 and s2 but as the game is now? u could fix SD and put other stuff
@@aclosh2983 I mean, you can _fix_ it, but he's still not wrong. SD is a representation of an aspect of the anime that is itself unique for a martial arts show: battles in 360° on the ground or in mid-air, because by the Z era every character can just casually fly, which completely changes how battles can be choreographed.
To get back to the game itself, SD _not_ being there would kinda remove a few key aspects of the game's identity, in both gameplay and marketing point of "This is an accurate representation of the Dragon Ball Feel". So, like, Inferno's got a fair point.
I still agree with you about it needing to be fixed and that new gameplay mechanics would be neat, though. You're onto something with that one.
@@twaggytheatricks4960 yeah this mirrors my stance pretty well
@@MoldyBagel ooh, good to know! I mean it makes sense, but still, thanks a ton for the useful explanation as always. The video really helped to formulate this point better.
That hand-drawn Android 21 is a work of art. It's a f*%$ing masterpiece!
Lol
Brilliant
We need a mod for the game that changes A21's model with MoldyBagel's poor renditions of her
@@Micha-Hil poor ?
I seriously lol'd so hard I had to rewind
I'm a fan of the MS Paint Android 21 lmao
MS Paint Android 21 is my favorite character now
@@rasin_Bran. Android 21 vs The Cooler Android 21
Better than the actual 21, at least.
Couldn’t stop laughing at Vegeta 2h-ing to heaven
Hyde Gackt watch out
BEGONE!BEGONE!BEGONE!BEGONE!BEGONE!BEGONE!BEGONE!BEGONE!
now THATS an ascended saiyan
@@owennelson5814 OUT OF MY- OUT OF MY- OUT OF MY- OUT OF MY- OUT OF MY- OUT OF MY- OUT OF MY- OUT OF MY-
@@Tr0lliPop GETLOSTGETLOSTGETLOSTGETLOSTGETLOSTGETLOSTGETLOST
I mean having a "fuck neutral" tool is probably the most dragon ball thing ever
So of course UI goku would have like 3 of them
Which is hilarious because Mortal Kombat has always been 'fuck neutral the game' and it's nowhere near as controversial as DBFZ
69 likes, make a wish!
@Tobias Boon idk I liked 9
@@Chill-Meister700 I think that’s just because it’s competitive scene is much smaller. If you’re playing MK you just know you’re dealing with tons of jank
Master Roshi: I don't have such weaknesses!
Master roshi realized sd was wack so he learned to be a frog and went further beyond with his raw tag.
@@retroletro1178 THIS IS EVERYTHING
Someone hasn't watched Roshi is S Tier
Superdash being spammed by everyone makes playing Hit way more fun
And with timing, playing jiren. The counters, man
@@rizkyfitradhi4708 Try something
I instantly heard doto say that
@@yeetyeet1865 when it connect : "THAT WAS SIIIICK"
when it failed : "I'M BAD AT THE GAMEEEE"
Same with DBS Broly
Watching this again, I really like how you time basically almost everything with the music, especially even with the smallest touch like Piccolo's jumping light attack there.
Definitely top notch.
you know the best part is that it's so automatic i don't even make a conscious effort to do it anymore hahah
@@MoldyBagel Ultra Instinct editor
The low effort Android 21 is cute, CUTE!
ikr
To be somewhat fair to superdash, there’s not a lot of fighting games with this mechanic so it’s kind of hard to really determine what works and what doesn’t and what’s balanced and what’s more broken then UI Goku. Yeah a lot of games have aerial dashs and the like but the only game I can maybe think of with a mechanic similar to the superdash is Arcana Heart 3’s homing dash and in comparison superdash is way faster then the homing dash and Arcana is a 1 on 1 fighter as opposed to a 3 on 3 fighter.
Yes its true, also Arcana Heart dash is limited by dash meter, you cant spam it as you please like in DBFZ.
As for speed, the Arcana Heart superdash (or "homing attack" in their language) is heavily dependent on your character condition. If you do a high jump before you do superdash, then the speed of your superdash become significantly faster, compared to when you just do a normal jump. Also the superdash doesnt hit confirm by itself on contact, but you need to actually press the respective hit button of your choice to attack (and it doesnt auto lift like youre doing an actual aerial combo starter too, making it extremely conditional in air-to-air situation). It shares a same weakness by vulnerable to block and anti air attack, but the Camera play on Arcana heart doesnt literally make your enemy character vanish when you jump out offscreen, making it easier to be predicted.
Something similar is also found on Touhou SWR or Hisoutensoku (th10.5/th12.3)
There's an universal mechanic where characters can dash around and float in the air, effectively dodging(grazing) bullets thrown at you but is counterable by physical/melee attacks. Think of it as an airdash that is only limited in duration by meter, can also be used as a sprint, can move in all 8 directions, and beats zoners.
@@RenShinomiya121 Another point is that when you dash, you can't change your direction. So, you can still be punished.
Unless you're Yuyuko. She can just turn on a dime and fuck with people.
@@tomlynmathewsjr7514 add Remilia too, due to her dash cancelling either into 22s or her mid air lunge.
I honestly would love to see more in-depth dbfz analyses in this format, like sparking and fighter-unique toolsets, gimmicks, etc. or maybe even a complete guide to dbfz! Great job MoldyBagel love your videos keep it up!
Short answer: yes, long answer: Yes but in 50 different languages.
What the hell I was about to comment that
Oui
Hai
Sim
Sir I'm gonna need you to give me a reason to not arrest you for your profile.
What I wonder was who hit vegeta when “android 21” was on screen
android 21 2 electric boogaloo
Moldy Bagel is the "analyzer" version of Shoyumomo
- change my mind -
im actually a clone of heeew but dont tell anyone
@@MoldyBagel, if so, in more 3 years you better do a "Dbfz is broken"
@@fugax_vulpes1797 and it needs coconut mall to play for music
@@fugax_vulpes1797 imagine the amount of shit that could go in there
excluding ui goku
The Fox Guy
Reason why dbfz is broken:
SD
That transition from metas knights revenge to the soul bros version was 𝘾𝙇𝙀𝘼𝙉
When you're so early Super Baby 2 is still ridiculously good
*8 months later*
“Why Superdashes are now good”
To be fair to Bamco, Superdash seems like a really hard mechanic to implement, both in terms of coding and balance. I’m surprised they’ve done as well as they have.
Superdash is my favorite part of Fighter Z and sets it apart from other fighting games for me.
yeah its really unique
@@MoldyBagel Not really. Arcana Heart has the homing dash. Good video BTW
"The Raw Tag giveth, and the Raw Tag taketh away."
All those superdash tracking whiffs actually make sense, is just the characters getting distracted during the flight, and then remembering where they were going
*sees 21 in the game and the drawn 21*
They're the same picture.
"you've got a rock paper scissors style champion counter system"
Me:*having ptsd remembering ultimate tenkaichi*
Ultimate is more like, Nuke vs Twig and the clash winner is the Nuke
Bro Ultimate Tenkaichi could get Stoopid lmao I feel u there
@@kingdripgaming623 I fucking hate how much I played that game as a kid, like I was training to become some competitive master at goddamn *Ultimate Tenkaichi.*
I always have a good time when playing DBFZ, even when I'm losing, I just cheer the enemy up and learn his moves to train and become better
But when it's UI goku
Oh god when it's UI goku
Lololol
I mean I like the mechanic but I really think it needs a tweak.
What would you tweak? I would probably get rid of crossups
hmm it’s hard. First off I’m not a massive brain when it comes to this game but I would make it easier to stop in the air. I mean not by a lot but it would kinda stop the whole random super dash thing that people do. Also this may sound a bit weird but when super dashes reflect small ki blast maybe it would slow it down. Not but much but so it’s sort of noticeable. So then it would be more easy to react to. I don’t know what this would look like in actual games. Tho I know it definitely needs a few tweaks. Shit like 0:42 and 0:35 is cursed.
Luckily I play hit who is a super dash counter. It doesn’t bother me that much
@@kaden9257 this are cool tweaks, imagine 2H in the air being invulnerable to SD
@@NovaZayn whenever someone SDs me in the air I mash 2h if I know it’s coming
every video I am reminded of how godlike your editing is lmao
thanks bro!
This video made me realize how little I use super dash. I usually just move normally because super dash just seems risky to me. I'm usually patient so reacting to them is just kinda a second sense. That being said I think SD is part of dbfz so I rather it stay. After all most loops and normal b&b combos need it. I feel like without SD dbfz would be just another anime fighter
agree with last sentence
Great video. I will make a few comments just on the general design discussion. I think super dash is an important mechanic, but it could use a few changes to make things more punishable I feel. You brought up raw tag, which is a good point. I think raw tag, rather than be a super dash, should be a jump in, like when characters get snapped out. Give a short vulnerability, that way you can switch without getting off for free basically, and make the first character have to hop off screen before the second pops on, to remove the ability to skip pressure. More akin to guard cancelling is the solution imo. Generally though, I think superdash is good as it is. There are those cursed interactions and windows and whatnot, but most times I don't feel like high level dbfz is decided by superdashes. If I could have any nerf on it, it would be requiring it to be done in the air, similarly to Roshi beam
I can picture Roshi eating popcorn watching this video whilst stating: *Heh heh, youngsters these days are a bunch of wuss!*
That drawing of 21 is super funny🤣
I guess you were one of the many that didn't complete the hero arc in story mode,I get that many only wants to play fighterz for the rank matches,or that the fights against the clones can be super boring(because of the really low difficulty that even people that never played fighting game can beat pretty easly,or the really limited number of stages that makes the gameplay feel so repetitive and boring),but I had a lot of fun with the interactions between characters of the db franchise throughout this original dragon ball story, an the possibility to unlock more arcs and play (for example)as the villains,is so cool (is very rare in dragon ball games to be playing with a villain during story mode),and the possibility to unloack a character that is a final boss in a fighting game, I always found that so cool and rare,so much so that I got really attached to 21,that I made her my main for online play,and this,since season 1.
Anyway,great vid,and i agree with everything you said for this video 100%, i hope you can make tons of quality video like this;like you always did!
Sorry if my English is not that good,but I'm practicing,like I'm practicing new routes and combos to perform online with 21😋.
Funny you say that since I was super attached to Android 21 in the story, especially Good 21.
My goal: pay attention
My obstacle: *C H O M P A*
He’s using meta knight’s theme, a cultured man I see
*Uses Super Soul Bros version
WE HAVE REACHED PERFECTION
the cover is SO GOOD
@@MoldyBagel Bro you're using Mor Ardain Day, frightening levels of cultured yet unseen
Android 21 isn't real, she can't hurt you
Bagel :
I absolutely love the editing, as well as the SUPER SOUL BROS background music
I love super dash personally, I think it makes the game unique and plays into what makes it so fast and agressive
It's definitely buggy sometimes though lmao
Buggy shit is fun though. Especially in a casual semi competitive drunken couch fight. I miss when games weren't updated and fucked with. But I'm old so 90s and 2000s was my fighting era. Lol new update for us was a sequel game.
THE RAW TAG REACTION! dude i though i was just imagining that and thought it was just cause I was ass.
Bro the only way to beat the raw tag is if you gave them a slight opening and you happened to be going for a 2H in the corner.
the tag gets hit by the 2h
proceed with air combo into DR
switch them back out. super satisfying and makes me feel like my 17 is S Tier.
I feel like the easiest solution here is to give raw tag a startup before it actually switches characters. Even just a few frames of startup gets rid of a lot of the nonsense, makes it riskier to use (which makes sense because of how much reward you get out of it), and makes it easier to react to in many situations so that people play less timid.
Superdash in and of itself is actually pretty well balanced and gives the game a really unique identity, but raw tag has got some problems.
I love how i dont play this game but l still love your analyses and hearing your voice was really weard until the text came and i have to praise your edeting man top Ul Goku Tier.
Short answer: "no"
Long answer: "yes"
This is a very nice and informative video, really is.
But I can’t help but go nuts with how 7:12 syncs well with the music. Great editing!
Man, android 21 looks a little different than what I remember...
Okay, I have two solutions, one for each Superdash and Raw Tag.
Superdash: When superdash is active, two "invisible bubbles" of hitbox detection, or HD, appears around the character Superdashing; the Inner HD, the bubble closest to the character Superdashing has a radius of a quarter to third the respective character size, and the Outer HD, the bubble farthest has a radius equal to that of the respective character size. _For the Outer HD,_ once the outer bubble detects the enemy hitbox, the enemy is "marked" and the character homes in on the enemy itself, theoretically providing better Superdash accuracy for the Inner HD to detect the enemy. However, if the Outer HD detects the enemy hitbox but the character misses the enemy and falls out of the Outer HD's detection, the Superdash will cease, preventing the character from flying sky high aimlessly for a couple of seconds. _For the Inner HD,_ once the inner bubble detects the enemy already marked by the Outer HD, the Superdash cancels out of itself, prompting the player that just Superdashed to input something or get punished doing so. This would allow for mix-ups for both players, making the Superdash a high-risk high reward move that shines better than what it currently does now.
Raw Tag: Legit, put 4 frames of start-up vulnerability when the player initiates a "Change!". More specifically, a character will not change out if they are hit during the the 4 frames of vulnerability, and thus are punished for tagging out. As an added visual, if the character is hit during the 4 frames of vulnerability, an X or (/) symbol will appear above the character portrait/flair that was about to be tagged in, putting a 10-second penalty on the player before they can tage in that character again. This would solve invincible tag outs, as well as put a buffer on Raw Tags, making them more reactable. Simple fix, honestly.
4:40 comedy gold, thanks for the laffs
I have to compliment you for the editing.
The transition between goku bumping, falling and rolling in the Grass was great!
Wait, why is Android 21 in MS Paint?
idk what ur talking bout
@@MoldyBagel Lol
He hasn’t played the story
@@averagegamer8850 he can buy the char though?
@@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999 true
0:25 the Divekick crossover content is looking good
As an irregular player I was like ''What's the big fuss about it'' and then I saw people reaching super heights.
this channel is a large part of the reason i got dbfz when i saw it on sale on switch
Imagine asking Twitter their opinion about a fg mechanic. Never change Bamco!
Wow, that poll.
I think, then, that the sustained popularity
of this game actually answers a pretty interesting question in fighting games: If your game is largely defined by a particular mechanic, what does it look like when a very significant portion of your players actively DISLIKES that mechanic? Or, to put it another way, DBFZ proves it’s possible to even _be_ popular at all, if/when a huge number of your fans hate a huge part of your game.
It’s just fascinating that apparently a lot of people are playing this game _despite_ that major mechanic, presumably just because they love the other stuff around it that much. In other words, they’re putting up with (arguably) the most pronounced element of the game because they still feel that the rest of the game is good enough to warrant it.
It is important to acknowledge the also-significant portion of people who specifically said they like it. If you were to deeply alter or remove that mechanic, presumably some of them would leave.
HOWEVER, in terms of survey biases: I think it’s very reasonable to suspect that
- the camp of “people who like that mechanic” is more likely to be players who’ve stuck around in the community (and thus were present to vote on this poll)
...whereas...
- the camp of “people who dislike that mechanic” almost certainly contains many previous/lapsed players who never even saw this poll (and thus did not vote on it) whether because they’re not actively following the scene anymore or because they already straight-up quit.
This would mean there are probably more uncounted opinions on the “dislike” side than on the “like” side.
In other words, The fact that “like” and “dislike” percentages on this poll _look_ pretty close to each other is potentially misleading compared to the actual truth.
I honestly can’t think of any other fighting game _that’s ever managed to maintain a pretty large community for multiple years_ (credit where credit is due!!) where so many of its players-past and present-seem to agree that one particular aspect of the game is directly detrimental to their enjoyment of the game. The only other game I can think of that even comes close to this would be Marvel 3 with x-factor, and even then, I swear I remember hearing way more people say that the stupidity of x-factor was fun to them.
Mannnn, that poll result is honestly kind of nuts. Like, I guess I’m not surprised, but it still feels crazy to actually SEE those numbers confirm what it seemed like the community was saying.
One last thought: Although it provides no additional insights, I think it’s worth mentioning this entire issue is ultimately circling around The Eternal Question: “How much should new updates/versions/titles cater to the people who most-strongly love what’s already there, versus try to capture the people who have never played and/or the people who have already walked away?” More specifically, in what order are you prioritizing the desires of current [insert game] players versus ex-[game] players versus other FGC players versus new FGC members versus non-competitive players (many different sub-groups in this one!) versus novice players versus intermediate players versus advanced players versus high-level players versus top players, etc., etc., etc.
I think they introduced the new "raw rag combos any where anytime" to boost versatility of the ways to put on pressure. Which it does, but at the expense of a cheap mechanic. Choosing assists was a positive step that fixed most of this already in my opinion. Honestly the balance patches now are just crazy, weird, and experimental, because the game is ending.
Just the raw frustration in that live clip is honestly hilarious. I feel for that guy fr.
I think they should make raw superdash cost 25% bar. It gives something to react to better and might make them think about it less. in combos it won’t cost meter so your meter positive combos still let you use supers
Hey you used my superdash clip! Good shit! :D
The Android 21 bit had me in stitches too.
After 5 minutes:
"The super dash is finally great"
God watching the characters attack and block in sync with the music is the most statisfying thing ever
That is my favorite thing to do
4:40 Ah yes, the anti-story mode crowd. Which is basically 99% of the community. :P
21 low key looked like she belongs in Adventure Time. Love the interpretation you gave her
Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: clcr.me/MoldyBagel_Raid and get a special starter pack 💥 Available only for the next 30 days.
Thanks for watching guys! This video was slightly rushed to adhere to a deadline so please let me know of anything I missed of importance and I will add addendums to this comment.
1. Someone pointed out the difference between a majority and plurality in regard to the opening poll. The result is technically NOT a majority. It is a plurality.
You to
Shilling for raid? Surely there was a better sponsor out there
I'm just surprised that you're providing your own voice for that. XD
My boy got sponsored, let's GO! 💙
@@PokeJose64 Better in principles, sure. But money, nah. :P
3:11 Tien’s third eye isn’t closed. Missed opportunity
Yes it is and let it stay that way
Cus it’s funny as hell when it happens 😂
I was just rewatching your other "educational" DBFZ videos today, what a coincidence
We need to have a mod to replace 21s model with ms paint 21
Everyone loves to talk shit on “no neutral” blah blah blah bs on DBFZ but it’s literally the only fighting game I’ve ever played that doesn’t make controlling a supposedly top of the world martial artist feel like driving a fuckin tank
2:05 to skip the shitty RAID promotion, and don’t get pissed at Moldybagel for doing it, youtube isn’t easy money
I gotta say I don't even have this game but you're videos and edits are so awesome and funny that I'm now subscribing and buying the game!
(Also love the music, I see you're a man of culture as well)
This was a good video. Thank you
Thanks bro!
0:39
If only I chased after my dreams like Krillin chased Yamcha.
im pretty sure you can but 21 w/ zenni now...?
*I have an idea* :
They could change the tag splitting in 2 types: normal and the superdash one
The normal one you are always safe, the character that you are using just leaves as always, but the second character will pop up with the normal dashing (without flying) from out-screen and then u regain control once he gets completely on-screen near the border where he came from as far away from your adversary, putting both you and the enemy in neutral again.
The superdash one it's like the original that we have, but it sostitutes the *neutral one* only during combos (so only when u succefully hit the opponent without him blocking)
I think that making a change like this is pretty fair
I dig it. They already have the jump in animation from snapbacks too
me: doesnt even own this game
also me: YO THAT SHIT HAS IFRAMES?
Literally me. I don't have any aspirations to play this game, yet I just love learning more about it.
@@Lucasfghjsokfdkjheu its actually rlly fun, you should try it
Your productions values are always through the roof.
00:15 what's this piece of music called?
this video perfectly described my frustrations with super dash. 11/10.
I think this vid is just to flex his 21 art
Is this Heeew's secret Dragon Ball channel? Anyway, love the editing and the content
these guys don't know who heeew is we gotta keep it a secret HAHAHAH
lol
I’ll constantly get l/r mixed by sd. It’s infuriating
Lmaooo I love the Majin 21 replacement. Despite not being very detailed it's still surprisingly accurate haha
why do *i* hate superdash? well to put it simply, I main beerus
LOL
@Roger Loe his whole thing is set up with balls but super dash deleted all of them
needs that priority buff
thank you Mr bagel with the funny frog (besides frog the jam) picture
Hey moldy when is the next stream coming :D
Our internet actually got downgraded and I currently do not have the upload for it. Sorry for kinda baiting with the stream idea. I may try it again in the future.
6 months late but a thought i had, particularly for a dbfz sequel, is just changing the way super dash's homing works. Make it stiffer, perhaps travelling in a straight line toward the foe's position and changing direction once partway through if they've moved instead of smoothly curving.
This both should help it be less prone to weirdass jank AND make it a better mechanic overall because you can more reliably avoid it with good timing to make your opponent miss you, without removing most of its other applications.
I've made my peace with SD as the game has gone on.
-I still say Arcana Hearts did it better tho-
The examples are basically just us watching people flying to the moon
Raid shadow legends sponsor
Me: Oh no They got him too
I used to hate it but then you taught me that I can uppercut launch bitches when they super dash non stop since it's that or auto combo with most people online, so whenever they dash at me now I see as a free combo, honestly thanks for this tip.
I felt like this video was just a fancy way of saying: "I haven't unlocked 21"
0:40 that krllin clip made me wheeze and spit my Drink out
Oh no, Bagel got the raid shadow legends pass
Well,he's a Small channel,so he would accept any type of sponsor.
MoldyBagel never fuckin fails in the background music, while I’m watching cartoon a21 fetish art fight vegeta, I’m hangin out to xenoblade ost
lmaoooo
They should make it so super dash is only be available during combos not in neutral
Hmmm, its alright I guess but then imagine the pain in the ass that would be trying to open up zoners, I mean, it would be a frieza and Janemba undirect buff which would be a good thing, but then imagine going against Dbz Broly or SSJ Vegetta
@@josueelman2984 yes but at the same time i dont mind zoners and assists can deal with projectiles while you get in
@@j4nky_ I really don't like the idea of DBFZ being a street fighter
I greatly appreciate your love for xenoblade music
xenoblade 1 best game ever
xenoblade 2 i dont like that many anime tiddies but best ost ever
Whenever someone does a dragon ball fighterz video, *raid always gotta be a part of it.*
(This is mikes daughter btw lol)
The main use for superdash is to CounterZone or extend combos, the first because of it's ki blast invincibility, and while it isn't the only move to do so, it has tracking and can start (somewhat limited) combos; and that's the main reason the Universal Projectile that is Ki Blast (except for Hit who doesn't have one, Jiren, and UI who have Mini Beams, Krillin who has sick controllable Ki Blasts but still gets fucked anyway, and the Newest addition, Baby who will always try whiff them) isn't used in Zoning at all.