$13 vs $1,300 Exhaust System | CASH vs TRASH
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2023
- How much power will a performance exhaust system make? And can you make your own and still get some solid gains? Today we're going to find out!
In this new series, we'll get an expensive intake system, and a home made system, then get an expert to decide. Along the way, one car will modified with loads of cash, and the other one will be modified with parts found from dumpster diving, recyclers, second hand parts or the cheapest parts we can find.
Thank you to Import Monster for importing the exhaust from Japan for us
importmonster.com.au
Thank you to our expert Dale Heiler for being our expert in this episode
/ tunedbydale
RYOBI Tools Supplied by RYOBI
www.ryobi.com.au
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A very common home made exhaust for 205’s back in the day here in Scotland was just cut up scaffolding pipes from the manifold back to a cherry bomb that’s been passed around all the boys and been on about 40 different cars
Aye we all had a cheeky wee shot of the 3" rolled out tip cherry back box 🤣🤣🏴
Good ol cherry’s…
I had a 91 Sentra SE-R that I put a cherry bomb on. It was LOUD back then.
Hornet these days lol my 206 verve 1.4 had a 3 inch hornet, sounded sweet asf
I came here to say as these videos go on I am getting more and more early 2000s Falkirk cruise vibes.
This is such a good series, not only entertaining but educational too. Can't wait to see the final cars battle it out.
It's essentialy a take on Donut's Hi-Low series... but arguably better
Except the backpressure part is BS
@@samteks125 Looks like we've found "that guy"
I was able to make my exhaust even cheaper, just used flexible ducting hose from Home Depot, same stuff for your dryer. It sounds great, and it only catches on fire when on the highway! 😁👍
I can't believe I'm starting to root for the Pug over the Swift.
It’s that underdog story
Pug-show!
Same here, but I find myself rooting for Marty frequently
@@radxwolfmanx6135 plus even though the hoodvents are just for the aircon they still look really cool. Idk if I'd want to own one myself but it's good fun to watch them modify that shitbox
The swift is a hair dressers car.. pugs have spice & rally heritage.
Love this channel!
My car (Citroen C4 VTS) failed car inspection, and being low on money, decided to try and fix it myself. So last week I changed the steering ball joints myself, and it passed the re-inspection with flying colours. I'm so proud!
Nice work dude!
@@TheBorre Thank you! First time i did more intricate car work.
Also very cool car! Keep it up :D
Great car mate
Well done mate👍🏻
I think the thing with backpressure is the wording. Backpressure in itself is always bad. You need exhaust velocity, Synchronized pressure pulses.
If the headers are tunes standalone then what ever is behind it will not reduce performance if the size becomes bigger.
If the headers are tuned with the rest of the exaust system, then it needs to carry the velocity of the exhaust through out the system.
Exhaust systems and intake are extremely complex parts to make right, and you need a excellent understanding of fluid dynamics and math or simulation to get it right.
This. Anyone who says an exhaust needs backpressure is just plain old fashioned wrong.
Absolutely this.
And for these nuggets it’s not going to make the slightest difference it when your pushing everything to its limits it matters
Exactly right. Look at 2 strokes, if resonance, scavenging etc wasn't a thing then we wouldn't have the funky 2 stroke resonance chamber exahusts
This
The peugbro is starting too look like most young driver owned 206s over here in the uk 😂
All it's missing from the rear now is completely smoked out rear taillights and jet black tinted windows and it's proper chav spec.
His forgetting the 206 3rd brake light mod extra 10bhp as it shows he has a 206 when slowing down, definitely smoked rear lights or the Lexus light and angle eyes front 😂, making me miss my Saxo VTR.
@@MrFrankieTankie it’s also not on wheels that are too big for the wheel wells. Chopped coils and it’s yet to have a set of maccies trays in the back. But it’ll get there 😂👌
Watching this series is like going back to the days where modded 206’s were everywhere lol
They need a DIY Max Power body kit at some point
These series is an excellent way of taking the best of the old classic "trash" gold mods and compare it to the "cash" mods MCM are today. As a die hard fan this is so great seeing them having fun while staying in touch with their roots and fan base
I can confirm being from the uk a Peugeot with a cannon is a common site
A lot less of them these days though, wouldn't have said that was a shame a few years ago, but now it's almost all boring financed turbo stuff being razzed about. Most of it was awful, but at least it was interesting haha
Definitely don't see many now days the small cc turbo cars make much more power and are pretty cheap to buy
WOOT!! CASH VS TRASH BEFORE WORK!! ❤❤❤❤
Strange, our swifts in the UK only have the mani-cat, and no harmonic weight on the mid-pipe either (at least from what I've seen, maybe a facelift thing). That Monster backbox sounds lush though, as you'd hope for $1300+. I hope we get some more sound clips as this series continues
The 31s in England have a manifold cat and also one just after the down pipe, so that makes 2 cats, both are rated at 200 CEL
Swear our swifys slso make 130bhp
I would love to see this series where, you try and go all trash. Like all 0 cost, or all junk yard.
People talk about back-pressure, but what they really mean is flow rate. Opening up the exhaust does lower back-pressure, but that isn't what harms performance. It's the fact that the gas expands to fill the larger volume, which slows it down, which lowers performance.
For every cylinder capacity there is an optimal exhaust size.
Yeah, It is all about velocity. Getting air in and out as quickly as possible is how you make the most power.
I remember back in high school making full exhaust systems from flexible pipe and metal zip ties from autozone lol 😂. Miss those days 2bh
I did that on a 5.0 ranger I had went I was in high-school
Jesus, bro...😂
@@bradleyward285 My cousin did that on his old LTD Crown Victoria cop car...Just hack the GIANT mufflers off, hollow out the cats and run flex pipe for a couple months....Sounded like a blatty truck...
Peugeot, it’s French for yogurt.
Not sure why I never thought to ask an exhaust shop for scraps. That’s brilliant!
they sell it for recycling, so you'd probably have to pay fair scrap value
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Y'all need to make a World's Best Off Road RUclips channel t-shirt, maybe take a little piss out of the overlanding industry (the fun way) highlight shit beer, I'd definitely buy one or two! with love from Canaderp!
I'm always drawn to the cheapest stuff that's not trash
You need to go ful SC150 on the Swift and 2.0 liter on the Pug. Then you got the ideal match-up. Both can get comp suspension also 😊
Need for Speed 206 style 😜😜😜
I'm certainly no professional, but wouldn't that little section of tiny pipe be all you need for the back pressure on the pug exhaust? The rest of it could be 5 inch if you want as far as I believe? If I'm wrong here please tell me
Loving this series and getting back into watching mighty car mods. The educational parts with an expert with each mod so good.
Yeah, beyond back pressure, scavenging and so on, there’s the harmonic resonance deal which is utterly important in an NA car.
Back pressure is not a thing, that "pressure" is the standing wave created with a harmonically balanced exhaust ;-)
Back pressure is absolutely a thing. Years ago I had a Gemini I did up as a hillclimb/time trial car, quite a lot of engine work, twin webers (IDFs), big cam, all the stuff. When I was done with motorsport I returned the Gemini back into a road car, milder cam, back to a single carb (Weber DGV), some other stuff to make it a more road friendly car my wife could drive, but the 3 inch race exhaust remained, albeit with a rear muffler so it would pass a roadworthy test. A few month after it was back on the road I caught the exhaust on a servo driveway and broke part of it so I took it to a shop and had a smaller (2 inch) system made. Much to my surprise there was a noticeable power gain from the 2 inch system. I would never have believed it had you told me that would happen, but that engine was definitely more tractable with the smaller exhaust. With the big cam and big carbs revving to 8000rpm the 3 inch made sense, but for a more conservative road car set up it was actually losing power. No kidding.
That 3 inch system is WAAAAY too big for that little Pug. Match your exhaust size to your engine people.
for N/A motor, backpressure is not something you want, it is an old myth saying that you need it, even the word itself is clearly telling that something is going against the flow, thus slowing gas flushing, which is bad. Powergain you observed was caused by speeding up the exhaust gas velocity in smaller pipe. In larger pipe, the gasses can expand and slow their flow out, when you replaced it by smaller diameter, the gasses could not expand as much and increased their velocity, , thus improving gas flushing.. As you said, correct pipe diameter is important, but backpressure is undesirable. If anyone is interested, I recommend Mikes video on backpressure on MotoIQ channel.
Like mentioned above, the key is exhaust velocity. Not backpressure. If the exhaust gas has more kinetic energy, that will help evacuate the cylinder, and pull in the intake charge... i.e. scavenging.
Marty should totally make an exhaust manifold. Check the scrap big for a tubular 4 cylinder header and cut out the tubes, cut the flange off the pugeot and make it up.
Old 4 cylinder sportbike manifolds are a good source for tubes
Pug manifold is cast so doesn’t weld too good and looks bad
I am loving this series. So many memories of the questionable things I did to my first tuner car.
I’m so happy y’all are still making videos. I Learned a hell of a lot of stuff from watching y’all’s videos. Started in school during welding class 2017. Love everything y’all are about, Can’t wait to see what y’all do next. much love you guys
I hope there is going to be a Dyno episode where you have actually dyno'd them both after each mod to see the progress of what has impacted the performance at each stage
Finally an episode i can relate to. I once cut down a stop sign to make an exhaust for my nugget of a lancer. 10/10 worst exhaust ever lol
Pro is definitely on point with info. NA cars do make power with a good tuned header, I learned this in my old Spec Miata days when I was following a build that was done for the 2008 Targa Rally by the company Flyin Miata. When it comes down to turbo vehicles, log manifolds work just as well as a nice fancy one as the turbo itself is a huge restriction point, and also a muffler that evens out your exhaust pulses. 1.6L to 1.8L NA you don't really want to go over 2.25 or 2.5 inches in diameter.
My wife married me cause she too refuses to go above 2.5 inches.
Wait, what bro? 😂❤
yeah header design is everything. not all cars are the same though when it comes to exhaust. mostly all honda motors benefit greatly from 3in after the collector across the board over smaller sizes.
No, he doesn't even know a difference between back pressure and scavenging.
I’m tired of people saying turbo manifolds don’t matter, they do. Just look at any factory turbo race car, they have just as much work in the header as NA cars. It makes less a difference than NA, but it still makes a difference. If the engine can’t get rid of the air and breath properly you are loosing power
@@cademckee7276 factory turbo race cars like the BTCC/TOCA have some amazing manifolds, other discipline don't, Rally for example where durability is important. Fancy manifolds are prone to failure.
Okay. Really digging on this series! Can't wait to see the finale!
Great to hear Bullet on the video, not heard it since Mira finale. Its such a good song from Moog!
Perfect timing lads, just enough time to catch the Ep before work!!!
Loving the side by side comparisons! Great series guys, keep it up!
really like that you are doing it and also giving information with someone who knows his stuff 👌👌
Totally agree, Moves the series to a different level, fun but with actual knowledge rather than "Facebook facts"
@@alittlebitmoore exactly and we know MCM have good and knowledgeable people around them with all these years they have been doing this.
Another great episode! I cheaped out on my RX8's exhaust, the ebay exhaust didn't fit right and about a month later the valves inside were rattling. Ended up spending $900+ on a Greddy exhaust that fits and sounds much less raspy or rattley.
I live by the saying:
Buy once cry once!
Glad to see these cars come along and compare/contrast cheap vs properly done parts.
This whole experiment would’ve made a lot more sense if the two cars where identical - using trash mods on one and expensive mods on the other…..
It is completely true about asking your exhaust shop about castoffs. If it's a good place, they'll have good castoffs. I got one for a truck I used to own. They took a performance muffler off another truck an older gentleman owned since it was "too loud." I got them to plumb it on mine for $125. Great finds are out there for that. You just have to ask.
I love this series, what a great idea and a good laugh. Looking forward to seeing what happens next
I bought a Citroen DS3 6speed turbo with a cooked motor for $1300 Australian) and a low mileage written off Peugeot 308 for $1800. Pulled the motor and sold the rest. Now I have a fantastic little car for $2100. Obviously, with all the money I saved I could afford a set of pilot sport 5s. Very happy!
Such a good series loving this keep up the great work
😍this series. Keep it going, guys. both cars sound sweet.
This series is flipping amazing i love it keep up the amazing work 🎉
Thank you for another good video! Every time I watch your videos I learn something new, this time the polishing of the needle valve seats, makes sense! Keep up the good work!
Yes Moog we are loving the series 😀
The series is making me really miss my fiesta. My first car, I modded the suspension, had a cold air intake, and a custom made 2.5 inch catback exhaust. Such a killer car to drive and was actually quick.
I miss it 😢
I'm loving this series. I hope it sticks around once these mad cars are built out
I built full exhaust for my Turbo swapped cobalt ss. My buddy has a junk yard full of superduty trucks and i used a pile of 3" stainless tail pipes and made full down pipe back exhaust. Took a good 8hrs to make it and look decent but sounds amazing and has had zero problems in the last 4 years.
Wonderful show, i'm waiting for every new episode like schoolkid waits friday. I havent been this excited since Supergramps build
This is insanely good series for me! I got a ZC31S like that a half year ago and will be doing the exact same mods to it.
Loving this series!
One of very important factors is that by replacing your oem exhaust system to an aftermarket you actually reduce weight of the car. Less weight - faster car.
A lot of heavily modified drag racing vehicles have exhaust tips coming from underneath the car. Drone is insane but by removing 10 feet of pipes you are saving another 40 pounds
I love this series. Cash or trash. I have gone on the trash side and have done some really cool things. It helps you appreciate what you have and can do.
Peugeot here in Ireland are very common when I was in school everyone had or wanted a Peugeot from late 90's til the early 2000's, parts to mod them at the time were very easy to find and cheap to buy. Alot of the boys used go cruising around their 106's and 206's and 306's (myself owned all of above at point or another), most of them lowered with body-kits and a mad big sticker on the back windows saying something crazy such as for example Drive It Like It Was Stolen or When In Doubt Go Flat Out, that was good old days until the they became cop magnets and the cops starting cracking down on them, all because alot people took their Peugeot's up the back roads going flat out and doing donuts. So when buying used check it's history because there is chance a young fellow could owned it and thrashed the life out of it.
Love this series
This series is so good!
Dale's back! Great to see him.
This series is such a brilliant series
I built an exhaust out of trash one time for my Legacy, and it sounded hecking GREAT.
I've been thinking about something else in the back of my Legacy (2.0 NA, 2001). When I bought it years ago, I visited a Subaru dealer and bought a new muffler as the original was rusted to heck. When I picked it up, I immediately noticed that it's not genuine, but an aftermarket piece. When I installed it, it sounded like crap at idle, with little farty sounds, like something inside would have a restrictor that is leaking. And I think it wreaks havoc around 2000-3000 RPM. Though the car has like diesel levels of torque but even at lower RPM's. For example, It cruises really nice with at a tad over 1500 RPM, 4th gear, 40 km/h. A while ago I stumbled upon factory brochure scans that listed a performance muffler. Also the car is so silent it's actually hard to know by ear where the RPM's are...
Loving the frequent uploads
Really interested to see what you can do with the PeuGOAT, when I was a kid I would always fantasize about modding random cars (amongst other things 😅).
Loving this series
I love that you added "Bullet in this video! I love that song!
This has been a cool series to follow. I really like seeing what Marty is building
I’m excited for this entire series! Love the content.
Great series!
Was nice to see dale
Thank Marty for giving the Peugeot 206 some love. I know you might not be into the proud lion all that much but oh man.. please give it a bit of time it will grow on you. You'll be proud of owning it and damn such a shame you didn't go for an S16 or RC/GTI180
They both sound gooooood! 💪
Just leaving this for the algorithm 👍🏻 favourite series in a long time
The main thing i got out of this episode is that de peugeot needs a turbo to make the 3 inch pipes really make sense.
I went and got quotes for a full exhaust for my 4age Trueno and shops were asking $1.5k in nz, kits from suppliers were also around $1.5k. I bought polished 16 gauge stainless pipe online for $350 and some resonators and made my whole exhaust for only $750. Definitely worth making your own if you can!
Could have saved even more not going polished - nobody can see the bits under the car, so why bother?
@@ChristopherHallett what about the tip? and it looks mad when youre working under the car :)
Fav series :)
The effects of that 3" exhaust on the pug is definitely going to be interesting 😂
Will kill torque
@@Ferjim77 that's what I'm thinking, the power band is going to shift towards the upper rpm range.
@Cole Trickle ehhh, somehow I don't think that's entirely true man, if that was the case, cat backs wouldn't change power at all. This will most definitely kill the exhaust gas velocity and reduce the low rpm scavenging.
@@jeremymann8930 Scavenging happens in the manifold collector, not 5 feet away after the cat.
@ChristopherHallett with a bigger exhaust system that scavenging cant happen smart boy
Nice work Marty
With my Subaru BRZ I went the Cash route. I started with an unequal length catted header and finished with a 2.5" resonated cat-back with a HUGE transverse canister silencer and dual 4" exhaust tips. I did get an OpenFlash tune to make it work. It sounds great: my BRZ now has that WRX boxer burble at idle, is devastating at full throttle, but sounds docile when you're light footed on the throttle.
In US $'s The header was about $1200 and the cat-back around $900. It took time to find a shops that were willing to install these items. The header installation cost over $500 after figuring in the cracked O2 sensor, but the muffler shop that installed the cat-back charged less than $100. I had well over $3K invested by the end, but the drivability and throttle response was vastly improved: at least a 20HP gain and the infamous BRZ/FR-S/86 torque dip is gone.
I would recommend both the header and the cat-back: the maker did their research and testing to assure that they do improve performance. Unfortunately, the EPA was unhappy with them not spending money on "certifications" and they no longer offer those products. I also know that the EPA has been cracking down on shops that install "non-approved" modifications (Thank you Rolling Coal Enthusiasts) so it is increasingly difficult to find a mechanic willing to risk his livelihood by installing Headers and cat-backs. Similar headers and cat-backs are still available from larger, well funded manufacturers but they are much more expensive and you'll need to DIY the install.
This is a great series , so interested to know what will make a better power gain !
Looks like Moog has been hitting the gym. Well done !
I love episode like this keep it going guys
Had to reload the app twice and search several times the video to show up anywhere lol. Glad RUclips sends the notification before they are ready for it
About back pressure - issue is with terminology. You don't need pressure that is pushing back, you need traveling pressure waves, that leave relative vacuum behind them, then help to pull gases out. Back pressure term comes from two stroke engines, which need an actual back pressure. 4 stroke engine doesn't need back pressure. What you need is speedy gas flow, that creates those pressure waves. Large pipe issue is with Bernoulli's principle - gas flow speed in larger pipe will be lower, and lower speed means lower pressure difference, thus reducing scavenging effect.
Here are so many Pug enthusiasts in EU, I am a bit surprised they haven't sent a huge box of used quality parts to Marty to stay in the competition. There are huge numbers of quality exhaust headers for the TU5JP4 engine.
I made a bolt on straight pipe (muffler eliminator) for my Subaru Impreza here in Japan out of a camo net pole I got from the scrap metal dumpster. Used the gasket as a template and cut a steel plate for the flange. Literally a straight pipe that helped unlock that lovely Subaru growl. 😎
Loving the fresh out the bag t-shirts, fold lines and all haha.
Congratulations to another awesome video guys! I always enjoy watching your high vs low videos! Donut media rocks!!...... Err I mean mighty car mods..
Loved the color-matched shirts (and everything else ofc!)
I want the barrel everything is standing on :D.
Another good video, looking forward to more of this!!!
The new hoodie is sick, so to celebrate the new tune on my 5cyl turbo Ford Kuga (420Nm!!) I am splashing out on one. Love your work boys!
Back pressure isn't a thing, all else being equal, lower back pressure means more power. The problem is if you go for less back pressure with a huge system you drop the exhaust velocity and that affects the scavenging. Resonance tuning is more important than either though.
Back pressure is just a by-product of keeping the exhaust velocity reasonable - it's not wanted, nor needed. Any exhaust specialist that tells you otherwise doesn't do any proper tuning to time the exhaust to the cam and headflow, or other setup work bar banging on whichever aftermarket units that looked the shiniest at the time. Not that there's anything wrong with that, most paying work available is fitting rather than manufacturing bits, but it's still weird this stuff is still getting passed around in an era where you have the worlds knowledge at your fingertips.
Unfortunately for the PeugBro, most of the restriction is in the manifold in those, there might be a couple of horses in the rest but you can get 8-10 horsepower out of a long-branch 4-2-1
6:23 “after saying no, because he said he might need it one day, I started cutting it anyways” 😭😭😭😭
This is great!!!
I love my Kakimoto R exhaust system on my 180SX it looks and sounds amazing always get compliments on it.
Thanks Dale.
I love the trash side of this video. I redid the exhaust on my built 95 dodge neon a couple years ago and all I did was reuse the old piping. I bought a muffler and new flex pipe but that was it. Instead of running it all the way out the back I ran it out the side so that I could put a rear diffuser on it and not have a muffler and piping to work around.
That Peugbro exhaust is so much exactly my jam. ❤
best series in ages .
The tractor flap! Definitely one of my favourite Crossovers. The SubarUte was epic!!!
Going to be amazing to see the cars on track after these dope mods😎Suzuki Swift lets goooo
The big exhaust doesn't hurt power because of too little back pressure.
An oversized system passing the same volume of gas, means the gas travels far slower, upsetting the scavenging.
When sized just right, an exhaust has minimal back pressure reducing pumping losses, whilst maintaining just enough gas speed to pull the fresh charge through the inlet, on the valve overlap period.
Everytime someone mentions that you need backpressure on your exhaust a little kid dies
I do like this cash vs trash series, but I hope there is another round with a twist. Both cars have the same fixed budget, but one is 80% towards the initial car purchase and the other 20% for mods. The other is 20% for the car and 80% in mods. Trash car with good mods vs good car with trash mods.
I wonder what you guys think of Australia's Eurovision entry. I liked the decor.
Cash vs Trash for the win. Love this sort of stuff. But yes Marty in the UK back in the day, the Pug 206 scene with cannons was definitely a thing.
I had a cannon on my 206 GTI! Had one on a Saxo VTR too!😂
I love the outro music, dunno why, it just seems perfect.