Wow! I can't believe I made it onto a Roflwaffle video! (i was somewhere in the crowd at the 2024 daytona 500 that you featured at the beginning of the video)
I'd argue, mainly with it's implementation of oval racing, that this is where Forza actually gains a foothold on GT. They actually tried with NASCAR, and even built a cup in Forza 7 centered around NASCAR-style oval racing with their stock counterparts from several different eras (80s boxy, 80s sleek, 90s, the late 90s shift to sedans) and actually went out of their way to get more ISC owned courses than just Daytona while NASCAR held their license with Forza, while GT added Daytona but at the cost of not putting a Stock Car sanctioned anything at Sonoma. Edit: Of course, with the Super Speedway in GT3 and the implementation of Motegi's oval, it has to be said that both of these were ALSO based off of Darlington Raceway, NASCAR's longest-standing superspeedway. In fact, Motegi's people conferred with multiple members of NASCAR's rules and specs committee to make Motegi basically Japan's Darlington.
@@flapperdeflap that part I can't remember... All I know is that beautiful yellow R34 had to be left in 5th gear & then you had to be right on top of the very tough to detect draft... I liked the mission so much that after I had the strategy down pat, I ran the same mission several more times just for the fun of feeling that surge of power & the sensation of speed
Dear,@@gearmeister may i ask why they have had humour, Or is the humour the rage that i got. Perhaps we'd argue over a cup o' tea, Yours sincerely, flap
@@flapperdeflap lol .. yes, I understand.. I had rage in the beginning but after I caught on, it was all laughter from me... but Polyphony had to be having a knee slappin time as we pulled our hair out 🤣😭😜👍
@@gearmeister i found this exercise sincerely grueling and perhaps even laborious, Mister Polyphony has a subpar and improper for gags and witticisms, or as peasants say it "jokes". Please persue this chinwag and chatter in a proper formal way, Yours faithfully, flap Minister of otiose and superfluous conversations.
30:19 That clip is probably the highlight of sould's Gran Turismo career. Blasting through a crash that was just moments ago a slipstream pack race is already terrifying. But now the cars are lagging, so you don't even know if the car in front of you is the car in front of you, or if the car to your left is actually still to your left??? Massive props for making it through without the slightest lift. Insane commitment.
"So which is my favourite? It has to be ... GT3" At this point this is basically your catchphrase. Can't really fault you tbh, I view GT5's gameplay as better than others due to nostalgia glasses. Not to mention GT3 is the one GT game I've barely played so far.
When I played GT6, I was playing frequently with online friends on various custom races using selfmade BoP. When we wanted to do Indy500, we naturally thought about the Formula GT. So, as you are mentionning it in this video, I can tell you that, to make it work, you need a severe power downgrade (from 70 to 60% if I remember correctly) otherwise you are running at 450km/h all the time. With low downforce setting, the car is super fast. The other issue was the tyre degradation and fuel consuption : basically one stop every 20 laps, even with lower power. So the 200 laps race was quite different to the reality. Still we did this race with damage model on and safety car period every time there were a crash, and we had plenty of fun after 3h of racing and several network crashes. It's one of the great memories I have from this time. As always, excellent job with this video, I really enjoy to discover hidden/cryptic content on GT, or just fresh point of view on analysing stuff on my favorite video game serie. Keep it on!
There are so many hidden nuances to oval racing that game developers are never quite able to capture, specifically with things like asymmetric suspension and alignment (especially asymmetric camber), skew/reverse skew (when the car “crab walks” and the front and rear are not in alignment), tire stagger (when the right side tires are a bigger diameter than the lefts), cross weights, coil binding/bump stops (and the risk of bottoming out), third springs, asymmetric aero (designed to generate side force and pull the car to the left), having to turn right in order to keep the car straight, the effects of wind (particularly sudden gusts of wind) on cars, etc. Oval racing is NOT easy, ESPECIALLY at speeds of over 300 km/h…
Hi I’m Jeff Gordon professional nascar driver. I’m here to teach you driving techniques that are very special to nascar racing. NASCAR is a race series with a lot of history having started back in 1947. Though there still called stock cars, today’s cars are built on steel tube frames. NASCAR regulations require the car to be 3400 pounds which is kind of heavy for a competition racing car but because of this driving techniques for NASCAR require that much more Percision care and finesse. The engine is a 350 cubic inch Carbureted overhead valve V8. Now just hearing this it might sound like old technology to you, but that’s really not the case. Even though these NASCAR engines are OHV these engines rev up to 10,000 RPM. Any engine expert would know, That this requires the same level of technology as in F1 racing which have double overhead cam engines reving up to 20,000 RPM. The transmission is a 4 speed, this is why you have to select the correct ratios for each track. The set up of gear ratios is very important. NASCAR there’s less of a difference of performance in each race car as compared to other categories of racing, that’s why just a slight difference in the setting or slight difference in drivers skill can lead to winning or losing. Most nascar races are on an oval track, though an oval track is very simple in shape, it’s that very shape that requires unique driving techniques. One of the things you’ll need to learn is drafting in other people’s slipstream. The closer you get to the car in front of you, The more you reduce the aerodynamic drag of your car to overtake your opponents. Drafting is a technique which is of course required in all kinds of racing but on an oval check it becomes crucial because there are no low speed corners you can draft at any time, but remember The better the draft the less the downforce. Enough of the talking let’s get ya in the car, you ready to drive? I’ll see you on the track.
For simcade oval racing my favorites are Dirt to Daytona and NASCAR Thunder 2004. On PC it’s NASCAR Racing 2003 season and iRacing. I’ve just never really liked the way AI behaves on ovals in GT, or how the car setups feel (the lack of stagger doesn’t help). The recent SRX and World of Outlaws games have been really fun for simcade oval racing though.
Damn, right after Southern 500 regular season finale. Just yesterday, while watching Rally in GT video, I was thinking about ovals in GT. Nice timing to me.
I think the biggest reason why Motegi was included in the Gran Turismo NASCAR Cup in GT6 was because in real life, NASCAR actually raced there in 1998 in a postseason exhibition race called the Coca Cola 500. This race featured top NASCAR drivers like Dale Earnhardt Sr, Jeff Gordon & Rusty Wallace among others & was by Mike Skinner. It was also one of the first times that Dale Earnhardt Sr raced against his son Dale Jr. However 1998 would be the only time that NASCAR would race there as the contract to run exhibition races in Japan expired. Due to the current condition of the oval at Motegi, any NASCAR return to Japan would likely take place at Suzuka, Fuji Speedway or on the road course at Motegi.
As someone that's grown up around stock car racing and understands how the cars are set up, I can tell you that Gran Turismo on a mechanical level doesn't understand oval racing. The reason I say this is because tire compounds on the left are totally different from the right. Tire pressures on the left are generally much lower on the left than the right. If you're running 51psi on the right for example, you're probably running 31psi on the left. Not only that, but cars are setup VERY asymmetrically since they only really need to turn one direction. It's not uncommon with the steering set to dead center to have an oval car pulling hard to the left, so something some drivers prefer is to have the steering rack offset set so that the car will still go straight when the wheel is straight. Since splitters have started being used on cars, I've also seen scenarios where you will have an extremely stiff spring on the left front to control the spring deflection and keep the left front pinned down with a very soft right front spring so when the car loads up in the banking it drops the right front and "seals" the splitter to the track surface to maximize downforce. You would also run totally different shock compressions and rebounds on all four corners and generally the front sway bar can be used as a way to keep the right side of the car from bottoming out in the corners. Rear sway bars haven't been allowed in NASCAR, only on road courses. From what I remember, Gran Turismo also doesn't have settings for a track bar. There's also some classes of asphalt oval cars that run staggered tires so the tires on one side will be a different size than the tire on the other side, although NASCAR isn't one of them. Up until recently, they ran 300/54R15s on all four corners until they recently switched to this new shit ass tire. Just on a mechanical level, the reason I say GT doesn't really understand oval racing is the inability to set a car up asymmetrically or adjust settings for each individual corner and there's a lot of important parts of the car mechanically that just aren't available in the games. You're only given settings for front and rear and the left and right sides are locked together. For road racing this works, but not for oval racing. They are entirely different animals. To compensate for this when GT introduced NASCAR, they had to add grip to the stock cars to make them handle properly on ovals, but as a consequence of this the cars had WAY too much grip on road courses. Trying to control a NASCAR stock car around a road course is not easy. At all. I'd argue it's just as hard, maybe harder than an F1 car. An F1 car is purpose built to handle as good as possible, meanwhile a stock car at the time had 900hp and weighed nearly two tons while having technology from decades ago, no driver aids, and by comparison downforce was nonexistent. They fuckin' slid EVERYWHERE all the time. If you ran a hot lap in a stock car at a road course and weren't sliding around all over the track, you were outright just two seconds slower and in the way. The NASCAR cars Polyphony added in felt like slot cars. Just heavier and more powerful GT500 cars. Now despite the complaints I've made, oval racing has always been enjoyable in GT. I remember I used to love building random shit and tuning them at Super Speedway on GT2. I've wasted hours doing that and I still do.
Good memories from drag lobbies there. Loved using the standard ford gt (there was one without a stripe right?) that was a bit faster than the newer one
@@gearmeister transliteration into latin letters makes japanese quite easy to speak. just tune in to some native speakers, then try to emulate the way they speak. ofc, understanding japanese is on another level, but the speach is quite clear.
GT4's Like the Wind was great, five laps around Test Course, not too much, not too little. I actually cleared it in a TVR Griffith 500 once, which is not easy with Le Mans cars running around.
Not sure if it's been mentioned before in the comments, but Motegi's oval is actually a 1-to-1 copy of Darlington, the home of NASCAR's Southern 500. Darlington was built that way because the guy who owned it wasn't able to buy the neighbouring property's minnor pond, so he just built around it.
5:12 Motegi's Oval is also very similar in shape to Darlington Raceway, which is the oldest Paved oval that is still active. I'm unsure whether they took inspiration from it, but the general banking profiles don't suggest any connection
Idk if you will read this, but just know that you're likely the best GT RUclips channel out there. The amount of effort you put into all your videos is astounding. Every video is well-resarched, -structured and -edited, and even hour long videos fly by like a breeze because they're so good. Appreciate your content a lot, keep it up champ ❤
I would be interested in a deep dive to gt5 as it's one of the most ambitious gt's as well as controversial ones and I would like to hear ur thoughts on it also.
I think the ability to share custom race setups as “scenarios” or something would single-handedly increase the longevity of gt7 tenfold. Like I’m already enjoying the game as it is (the physics update provides a new challenge, and I’m trying to collect every engine swap in the game rn :3), but wow- I’ve been having fun making my own silly tunes for cars and would love to throw those out there as AI opponents on various tracks for others to experience! Just imagine someone setting up a race specifically with oval racing in mind, with NASCAR designs plastered over the AI cars from their garage…
Ahh, Gran Turismo 3's Test Course!! It's my favorite GT track in the series!! So many memories, and even still fun to drive to this day!! Plus, the replay angles are still awesome!!
You hit on it right at the end when you talked about every line having the same amount of grip. The fact that the shortest line isn't always the fastest-especially as tires start to wear out-is one of the coolest things about oval racing, and it's something racing games don't tend to capture unless they're strongly focused on ovals (for example, the dedicated NASCAR titles). It doesn't help that GT and Forza tend to spotlight Daytona (where the pack racing overwhelms any concerns about running the ideal line) and Indy (which only has the one line even in real life). But even when they have ovals that should allow for more variety, they don't tend to model the surface grip and tire wear correctly, or set up long enough races for that tire wear to have an impact. Like, Northern Isle might be modeled after Bristol, but Bristol has variable banking in the turns that means the fastest line is often right up next to the wall.
PD always miss out player's favorites, for me it's custom 15 or 20 minutes endurances on Northern Isle, especially with cars aren't rigid, or simply swapped cars that's fast but unstable, racing them round and round there is pure fun and torture. Think about having a 300K even 100K l payout 20 min mini stock car race there, it still means something.
At some point Gran Turismo will get its first licenced Indy car, the 1966 AAR Indy Eagle that won the Gran Turismo Trophy at Pebble Beach a few years ago. Hopefully it won't be the only one (🤞🤞 for the 1972 Indy Eagle with its massive wings and massively boosted Offy), and that Indianapolis returns to the franchise as well.
Just including a "Test Course" based on Yatabe test track, which is owned by Japan Automobile Research Institute, in the original Gran Turismo, shows how serious Kaz treated the development of the game.
There was a way to turn TC off in the GT5 NASCAR races. You had to use a wheel and bring up the in game TC/ST adjustments, as soon as the race started you could just turn the TC right down.
17:27 "GT4's version is pretty forgettable" ...Oh that's awkward, I did that event countless times as a kid, using so many different races cars and tuning configs. You can honestly have some amazing slipstream battles on GT4's Like the Wind! And the fact that it is 5 laps is a lot more doable for the average player. Plus after all those laps in GT3...yeah, I'm not Rofl who likes that kind of torture 🤣 But I love Test Course and Super Speedway all the same! Thanks for doing a video focused on Oval Racing! 👍
3:20 I would love to see a video on the history of Yatabe, especially going into both the OEMs and aftermarket shops who've used it for the most iconic Japanese tuner cars in history.
In the GT3 Formula GT Championship slipstreaming is mandatory as well since your car will be down on power as you're not able to change the oil between races (if you're going for the championship cup). It's also 20 laps, same as Like the Wind, but you can't brute-force it with an Escudo, Viper or GT-One so it's honestly much harder.
One thing you forgot to mention about GT6, was the inclusion of Mario Andretti's 1948 Hudson, which is technically a stock car itself, though we really never got any official tracks to drive it on (Like short paved or dirt ovals)
Haven't seen a mention of it yet, so, I'm seeing Blue Moon is basically GT's own Tricky Triangle, very similar to Pocono Raceway. The straightaway lengths look proportionally about the same, just Blue Moon has a tighter Turn 1 and a more gradual Turn 2. Wonder if each turn on Blue Moon is based on a turn from the GT games, similar to its real-life counterpart? Pocono's turns are all based on another track (Trenton Speedway, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and the Milwaukee Mile). The latest GT I played was GT6, so I haven't a clue, sadly. Would be a crazy detail if that is the case.
I found that ovals are simple to drive around, but incredibly difficult to be fast and consistent. I was like ehh, nothing to it, until i got blown away on iracing. Every oval has its own personality, and its little secrets to be fast. I got blown away, scratching my head at how i could be so much slower driving in a circle..
The Valvoline livery was on the buggy early release. Sony offered a disc exchange to get the less buggy update. This US spec update made the Taurus the generic version.🎉 That’s all I got y’all.😂
27:48 As diehard NASCAR fan, my wet dream is NASCAR race at the Test Course (basically Like the Wind GT3 all over again) i hope someone modded GT3 Test Course into NR2003
I'd say it's the other way around when it comes to ASM. It doesn't actually kill your speed, it MAINTAINS your speed, when cornering. Without ASM, chances are your car will have to slow down on corners since all that speed may also translate to a death slide on even the fastest corners. ASM stands for "Anti Slip Management", take that away and your car will increase its chances of slipping and sliding.
Everyone talks about how F1 with the pit strategies is a “chess match”. Oval racing is nonstop chess. The concentration levels are off the charts. And, as I’ve often said before, what is so much harder about turning right?
I think some form of Nascar would be the only car i would actually wish to be added to GT7. This style of racing really appeals to me and I think that it could be easily adapted for league racing. Not to mention the possibilitys for livery creators.
If there's something I like on PS3 era of GT (I never had a PS3, sadly), is the inclusion of 2-files rolling start, hopefully I hear it right (not even GT7 have said rolling starts). While it's not showing the definitive oval racing experience, these nitpicky design feels like they're trying, at least. Sure, they have even more proper grid start on GT7, but online e-sport only, and not single player. Aside from nitpicky complain, I kinda like most of made up oval from GT. That test track from PS1 era, feels like something inside a forest, or countryside, the one on PS2 era feels, bland (lelz), in open field, Super Speedway (to TWM Super Speedway soon), feels quite majestic in some sense, and SSRX, it kinda feels like a purposed oval track in out of nowhere, I kinda love the radical setting they got. Blue Moon Speedway look somewhat nice in settings, Broad Bean Speedway could be something existed in the middle of Japan, Northern Isle kinda feels, too realistic? I know the track is inspired by the real deal, it's just doesn't need to be that realistic (just my nitpicky complain anyway). And Lake Louise's tri oval is something I didn't expect (a snow oval), and I like it. Overall, it's true GT never really treated oval races as that much importance anyway, but to me, GT5 and 6 kinda got oval races right
As a nascar fan, I think GT has more interest in oval racing as a concept they want to do in their own way, and realistic nascar is sort of an afterthought to their own interpretation of what ovals should be like. Any chance we could get a video on Tourist Trophy at some point soon? I'm nostalgic for that game.
I would love to see a better oval racing representation in GT with more tracks, asymmetrical tuning and of course stock cars plus details mechanics. It wouldnt even need to be nascar branded, there's plenty of series out there. I also would love a proper drag racing mode.
At the end of the day Gran Turismo (like Forza M.) is not only a simcade, but also a variety racing game. It's a bit like GTA in that regard, which has bad movement and shooting mechanics compared to pure shooters and bad driving compared to racing games. There are many details for specific racing formats that GT and FM don't get right and the reason they can get away with it is because they offer much more beyond that one thing. While it'd be cool if they added more depth to oval racing, there's also quite a few other series this could be said about and there'd be a few on my list I'd prefer.
To answer your question: YES. Gran Turismo does get oval racing. There's Northern Isle Speedway, Blue Moon Bay Speedway, Broad Bean Raceway (yes, this is an oval), Daytona, and who knows, maybe Indianapolis? Not to mention the Lake Louise Tri-Oval (rally cars only) and Special Stage Route X. Even the Test Course oval. I wonder if GT7 would add another layout for the Monza track where they just add the classic oval. Yes, Monza had an oval back in the day.
That "Like the Wind" tribute thumbnail is perfection.
Just like the song
I've always loved the "Like the Wind" card.
Makes me nostalgic now even haha.
It even has the PD-speak subtitle
In gran Turismo 5, there was a race where you drive a slow pickup truck in Daytona and all you get is a midget truck.
That's a steal tbh
the gt3 professional vitz race on test course is the greatest event in the history of any racing game
Pink Vitz? 😂😂😂
Aw yeh fart on my roommates door
The moon landing events though...
quite literally
@@HWTsuchiyaNathan if you really think back to that race, it was super challenging & it took me a few tries
"If you're going hard enough left, you'll find yourself turning right." - Doc Hudson, 3 time Piston Cup winner
@@CyanRooper Tow Mater He Did What In Is His Cup
@@bowlerwildcatGaming1991 lmao
I think the developers were just laughing their ass off at the idea of test course 10 laps in the vitz race
Wow! I can't believe I made it onto a Roflwaffle video! (i was somewhere in the crowd at the 2024 daytona 500 that you featured at the beginning of the video)
I'd argue, mainly with it's implementation of oval racing, that this is where Forza actually gains a foothold on GT. They actually tried with NASCAR, and even built a cup in Forza 7 centered around NASCAR-style oval racing with their stock counterparts from several different eras (80s boxy, 80s sleek, 90s, the late 90s shift to sedans) and actually went out of their way to get more ISC owned courses than just Daytona while NASCAR held their license with Forza, while GT added Daytona but at the cost of not putting a Stock Car sanctioned anything at Sonoma.
Edit: Of course, with the Super Speedway in GT3 and the implementation of Motegi's oval, it has to be said that both of these were ALSO based off of Darlington Raceway, NASCAR's longest-standing superspeedway. In fact, Motegi's people conferred with multiple members of NASCAR's rules and specs committee to make Motegi basically Japan's Darlington.
GT4 Mission 23 with the Skylines was my favorite, there I learned that Polyphony had a good sense of humor
Where you got the tank car right?
@@flapperdeflap that part I can't remember... All I know is that beautiful yellow R34 had to be left in 5th gear & then you had to be right on top of the very tough to detect draft... I liked the mission so much that after I had the strategy down pat, I ran the same mission several more times just for the fun of feeling that surge of power & the sensation of speed
Dear,@@gearmeister may i ask why they have had humour,
Or is the humour the rage that i got.
Perhaps we'd argue over a cup o' tea,
Yours sincerely, flap
@@flapperdeflap lol .. yes, I understand.. I had rage in the beginning but after I caught on, it was all laughter from me... but Polyphony had to be having a knee slappin time as we pulled our hair out 🤣😭😜👍
@@gearmeister i found this exercise sincerely grueling and perhaps even laborious,
Mister Polyphony has a subpar and improper for gags and witticisms, or as peasants say it "jokes".
Please persue this chinwag and chatter in a proper formal way,
Yours faithfully, flap
Minister of otiose and superfluous conversations.
30:19 That clip is probably the highlight of sould's Gran Turismo career. Blasting through a crash that was just moments ago a slipstream pack race is already terrifying. But now the cars are lagging, so you don't even know if the car in front of you is the car in front of you, or if the car to your left is actually still to your left??? Massive props for making it through without the slightest lift. Insane commitment.
"So which is my favourite? It has to be ... GT3"
At this point this is basically your catchphrase. Can't really fault you tbh, I view GT5's gameplay as better than others due to nostalgia glasses. Not to mention GT3 is the one GT game I've barely played so far.
My top seven (Not including Sport) favorite GT games:
1. GT4
2. GT2
3. GT3
4. GT (1997)
5. GT5
6. GT7
7. GT6
Fond memories of the countless hours spent in Gt5 Nascar lobbies
When I played GT6, I was playing frequently with online friends on various custom races using selfmade BoP. When we wanted to do Indy500, we naturally thought about the Formula GT.
So, as you are mentionning it in this video, I can tell you that, to make it work, you need a severe power downgrade (from 70 to 60% if I remember correctly) otherwise you are running at 450km/h all the time. With low downforce setting, the car is super fast.
The other issue was the tyre degradation and fuel consuption : basically one stop every 20 laps, even with lower power. So the 200 laps race was quite different to the reality.
Still we did this race with damage model on and safety car period every time there were a crash, and we had plenty of fun after 3h of racing and several network crashes. It's one of the great memories I have from this time.
As always, excellent job with this video, I really enjoy to discover hidden/cryptic content on GT, or just fresh point of view on analysing stuff on my favorite video game serie. Keep it on!
Man, that sounds really fun. I wish I had been there at the time.
37:41 The NASCAR liveries on the modified S15 looks weird but damn nice at the same time.
There are so many hidden nuances to oval racing that game developers are never quite able to capture, specifically with things like asymmetric suspension and alignment (especially asymmetric camber), skew/reverse skew (when the car “crab walks” and the front and rear are not in alignment), tire stagger (when the right side tires are a bigger diameter than the lefts), cross weights, coil binding/bump stops (and the risk of bottoming out), third springs, asymmetric aero (designed to generate side force and pull the car to the left), having to turn right in order to keep the car straight, the effects of wind (particularly sudden gusts of wind) on cars, etc. Oval racing is NOT easy, ESPECIALLY at speeds of over 300 km/h…
Hi I’m Jeff Gordon professional nascar driver. I’m here to teach you driving techniques that are very special to nascar racing. NASCAR is a race series with a lot of history having started back in 1947. Though there still called stock cars, today’s cars are built on steel tube frames. NASCAR regulations require the car to be 3400 pounds which is kind of heavy for a competition racing car but because of this driving techniques for NASCAR require that much more Percision care and finesse. The engine is a 350 cubic inch Carbureted overhead valve V8. Now just hearing this it might sound like old technology to you, but that’s really not the case. Even though these NASCAR engines are OHV these engines rev up to 10,000 RPM. Any engine expert would know, That this requires the same level of technology as in F1 racing which have double overhead cam engines reving up to 20,000 RPM. The transmission is a 4 speed, this is why you have to select the correct ratios for each track. The set up of gear ratios is very important. NASCAR there’s less of a difference of performance in each race car as compared to other categories of racing, that’s why just a slight difference in the setting or slight difference in drivers skill can lead to winning or losing. Most nascar races are on an oval track, though an oval track is very simple in shape, it’s that very shape that requires unique driving techniques. One of the things you’ll need to learn is drafting in other people’s slipstream. The closer you get to the car in front of you, The more you reduce the aerodynamic drag of your car to overtake your opponents. Drafting is a technique which is of course required in all kinds of racing but on an oval check it becomes crucial because there are no low speed corners you can draft at any time, but remember The better the draft the less the downforce. Enough of the talking let’s get ya in the car, you ready to drive? I’ll see you on the track.
REMEMBER, THE CAR IS HEAVY
For simcade oval racing my favorites are Dirt to Daytona and NASCAR Thunder 2004. On PC it’s NASCAR Racing 2003 season and iRacing. I’ve just never really liked the way AI behaves on ovals in GT, or how the car setups feel (the lack of stagger doesn’t help). The recent SRX and World of Outlaws games have been really fun for simcade oval racing though.
I would highlight the obsession they had with Test Course in Gran Turismo 3.
Damn, right after Southern 500 regular season finale. Just yesterday, while watching Rally in GT video, I was thinking about ovals in GT. Nice timing to me.
I think the biggest reason why Motegi was included in the Gran Turismo NASCAR Cup in GT6 was because in real life, NASCAR actually raced there in 1998 in a postseason exhibition race called the Coca Cola 500. This race featured top NASCAR drivers like Dale Earnhardt Sr, Jeff Gordon & Rusty Wallace among others & was by Mike Skinner. It was also one of the first times that Dale Earnhardt Sr raced against his son Dale Jr. However 1998 would be the only time that NASCAR would race there as the contract to run exhibition races in Japan expired. Due to the current condition of the oval at Motegi, any NASCAR return to Japan would likely take place at Suzuka, Fuji Speedway or on the road course at Motegi.
As someone that's grown up around stock car racing and understands how the cars are set up, I can tell you that Gran Turismo on a mechanical level doesn't understand oval racing. The reason I say this is because tire compounds on the left are totally different from the right. Tire pressures on the left are generally much lower on the left than the right. If you're running 51psi on the right for example, you're probably running 31psi on the left. Not only that, but cars are setup VERY asymmetrically since they only really need to turn one direction. It's not uncommon with the steering set to dead center to have an oval car pulling hard to the left, so something some drivers prefer is to have the steering rack offset set so that the car will still go straight when the wheel is straight. Since splitters have started being used on cars, I've also seen scenarios where you will have an extremely stiff spring on the left front to control the spring deflection and keep the left front pinned down with a very soft right front spring so when the car loads up in the banking it drops the right front and "seals" the splitter to the track surface to maximize downforce. You would also run totally different shock compressions and rebounds on all four corners and generally the front sway bar can be used as a way to keep the right side of the car from bottoming out in the corners. Rear sway bars haven't been allowed in NASCAR, only on road courses. From what I remember, Gran Turismo also doesn't have settings for a track bar. There's also some classes of asphalt oval cars that run staggered tires so the tires on one side will be a different size than the tire on the other side, although NASCAR isn't one of them. Up until recently, they ran 300/54R15s on all four corners until they recently switched to this new shit ass tire. Just on a mechanical level, the reason I say GT doesn't really understand oval racing is the inability to set a car up asymmetrically or adjust settings for each individual corner and there's a lot of important parts of the car mechanically that just aren't available in the games. You're only given settings for front and rear and the left and right sides are locked together. For road racing this works, but not for oval racing. They are entirely different animals. To compensate for this when GT introduced NASCAR, they had to add grip to the stock cars to make them handle properly on ovals, but as a consequence of this the cars had WAY too much grip on road courses. Trying to control a NASCAR stock car around a road course is not easy. At all. I'd argue it's just as hard, maybe harder than an F1 car. An F1 car is purpose built to handle as good as possible, meanwhile a stock car at the time had 900hp and weighed nearly two tons while having technology from decades ago, no driver aids, and by comparison downforce was nonexistent. They fuckin' slid EVERYWHERE all the time. If you ran a hot lap in a stock car at a road course and weren't sliding around all over the track, you were outright just two seconds slower and in the way. The NASCAR cars Polyphony added in felt like slot cars. Just heavier and more powerful GT500 cars.
Now despite the complaints I've made, oval racing has always been enjoyable in GT. I remember I used to love building random shit and tuning them at Super Speedway on GT2. I've wasted hours doing that and I still do.
27:45 Nah, the real NASCAR Wet Dream would be Red Rock Valley Speedway.
Idk if yall have ever tried it, but racing at blue moon bay is absolutely amazing in gt7, its unbelievably fun
I actually miss the GT5 Nascar focus. Anyone remember drag racing at Indianapolis?
Good memories from drag lobbies there. Loved using the standard ford gt (there was one without a stripe right?) that was a bit faster than the newer one
The slipstream in GT5 was so strong!
Absolute blast to race against ai
Hell yeah, especially the last NASCAR race at Daytona!
i hope we get a video on the toilet paper poly used during the development of gran turismo
I'm sure we couldn't pronounce it... 😂
@@gearmeister transliteration into latin letters makes japanese quite easy to speak. just tune in to some native speakers, then try to emulate the way they speak. ofc, understanding japanese is on another level, but the speach is quite clear.
@@homerp.hendelbergenheinzel6649
Thanks for that great info!
GT4's Like the Wind was great, five laps around Test Course, not too much, not too little.
I actually cleared it in a TVR Griffith 500 once, which is not easy with Le Mans cars running around.
your eyes are so high-quality now
High quality Slim Cognito jumpscare
I swear Roflwaffles Videos are the only ones I am actually looking forward to at the moment
Not sure if it's been mentioned before in the comments, but Motegi's oval is actually a 1-to-1 copy of Darlington, the home of NASCAR's Southern 500.
Darlington was built that way because the guy who owned it wasn't able to buy the neighbouring property's minnor pond, so he just built around it.
Here's an edit you could consider: Motegi itself could have been influenced by the design of Darlington Raceway, which opened in 1950.
30:20
Whoever was that guy, my hat's down to him.
Also, i'm realizing that inviting S1ap Sh0es would had been a great idea.
Would you consider doing a video on Japanese tuner brands, I see Spoon, AEM, Amuse etc all the time but have no idea who they are
Great memories of doing the Indy race with the Red Bull X Prototype, 500 laps smashed in 30 minutes.
Ah, the online Route-X experience back in the PS3 days is some of my most exhillerating gaming memories, forever cherished.
GT5 and GT6 were peak Oval racing in Gran Turismo. Those Daytona, Indy, Route 7, and Route X lobbies were 🔥.
Forza motorsport has had a history of oval racing. You could possibly do a video for that to.
As always, a very good, well documented, perfectly narrated video. Very interesting as well, great job!
5:12 Motegi's Oval is also very similar in shape to Darlington Raceway, which is the oldest Paved oval that is still active. I'm unsure whether they took inspiration from it, but the general banking profiles don't suggest any connection
Idk if you will read this, but just know that you're likely the best GT RUclips channel out there. The amount of effort you put into all your videos is astounding. Every video is well-resarched, -structured and -edited, and even hour long videos fly by like a breeze because they're so good. Appreciate your content a lot, keep it up champ ❤
I would be interested in a deep dive to gt5 as it's one of the most ambitious gt's as well as controversial ones and I would like to hear ur thoughts on it also.
I think the ability to share custom race setups as “scenarios” or something would single-handedly increase the longevity of gt7 tenfold. Like I’m already enjoying the game as it is (the physics update provides a new challenge, and I’m trying to collect every engine swap in the game rn :3), but wow-
I’ve been having fun making my own silly tunes for cars and would love to throw those out there as AI opponents on various tracks for others to experience! Just imagine someone setting up a race specifically with oval racing in mind, with NASCAR designs plastered over the AI cars from their garage…
Rofllllwaffffleeee, thanks for uploading!!!
He's back with another upload
Ahh, Gran Turismo 3's Test Course!! It's my favorite GT track in the series!! So many memories, and even still fun to drive to this day!! Plus, the replay angles are still awesome!!
You hit on it right at the end when you talked about every line having the same amount of grip. The fact that the shortest line isn't always the fastest-especially as tires start to wear out-is one of the coolest things about oval racing, and it's something racing games don't tend to capture unless they're strongly focused on ovals (for example, the dedicated NASCAR titles). It doesn't help that GT and Forza tend to spotlight Daytona (where the pack racing overwhelms any concerns about running the ideal line) and Indy (which only has the one line even in real life). But even when they have ovals that should allow for more variety, they don't tend to model the surface grip and tire wear correctly, or set up long enough races for that tire wear to have an impact. Like, Northern Isle might be modeled after Bristol, but Bristol has variable banking in the turns that means the fastest line is often right up next to the wall.
PD always miss out player's favorites, for me it's custom 15 or 20 minutes endurances on Northern Isle, especially with cars aren't rigid, or simply swapped cars that's fast but unstable, racing them round and round there is pure fun and torture. Think about having a 300K even 100K l payout 20 min mini stock car race there, it still means something.
At some point Gran Turismo will get its first licenced Indy car, the 1966 AAR Indy Eagle that won the Gran Turismo Trophy at Pebble Beach a few years ago. Hopefully it won't be the only one (🤞🤞 for the 1972 Indy Eagle with its massive wings and massively boosted Offy), and that Indianapolis returns to the franchise as well.
Okay I didn't expect Wheelie glitch to show up there
Just including a "Test Course" based on Yatabe test track, which is owned by Japan Automobile Research Institute, in the original Gran Turismo, shows how serious Kaz treated the development of the game.
There was a way to turn TC off in the GT5 NASCAR races. You had to use a wheel and bring up the in game TC/ST adjustments, as soon as the race started you could just turn the TC right down.
17:27 "GT4's version is pretty forgettable" ...Oh that's awkward, I did that event countless times as a kid, using so many different races cars and tuning configs. You can honestly have some amazing slipstream battles on GT4's Like the Wind! And the fact that it is 5 laps is a lot more doable for the average player. Plus after all those laps in GT3...yeah, I'm not Rofl who likes that kind of torture 🤣
But I love Test Course and Super Speedway all the same! Thanks for doing a video focused on Oval Racing! 👍
3:20 I would love to see a video on the history of Yatabe, especially going into both the OEMs and aftermarket shops who've used it for the most iconic Japanese tuner cars in history.
I always liked the Megaspeed cup on GT1 & No.1 Turbo Cup on GT2
Dream car championship in gran turismo 3 in one of the dream cars with no upgrades is alot of fun!
Ahhh that asm in gt5 was such a damn pain in the ass, I had erased that dark memory hahahaha
This makes me wonder why we don't have Indianapolis Motor Speedway in GT7.
In the GT3 Formula GT Championship slipstreaming is mandatory as well since your car will be down on power as you're not able to change the oil between races (if you're going for the championship cup).
It's also 20 laps, same as Like the Wind, but you can't brute-force it with an Escudo, Viper or GT-One so it's honestly much harder.
🟣🪽🟡 LIKE THE WIND 🟣🪽🟡
The one guy hitting Route 11 with the Flying Refrigerator in GT6. And winning in reverse...
Roflwaffle deserves a billion trillion subscribers
23:31 the Kevin Lepage challenge
These videos make my life better
Unpatched versions of GT5 you could turn the ASM off on that Daytona race which made it much easier (I was stuck with dial up for far far too long)
The simpler the race track is, the harder it is to perfect. That’s why so many great drag racers are in their 50s.
One thing you forgot to mention about GT6, was the inclusion of Mario Andretti's 1948 Hudson, which is technically a stock car itself, though we really never got any official tracks to drive it on (Like short paved or dirt ovals)
The Andretti Hudson is a Modified, not a Stock Car.
@@Nagato_TruePain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_racing Modifieds are still considered stock car racing.
Haven't seen a mention of it yet, so, I'm seeing Blue Moon is basically GT's own Tricky Triangle, very similar to Pocono Raceway. The straightaway lengths look proportionally about the same, just Blue Moon has a tighter Turn 1 and a more gradual Turn 2.
Wonder if each turn on Blue Moon is based on a turn from the GT games, similar to its real-life counterpart? Pocono's turns are all based on another track (Trenton Speedway, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and the Milwaukee Mile). The latest GT I played was GT6, so I haven't a clue, sadly. Would be a crazy detail if that is the case.
I found that ovals are simple to drive around, but incredibly difficult to be fast and consistent. I was like ehh, nothing to it, until i got blown away on iracing. Every oval has its own personality, and its little secrets to be fast. I got blown away, scratching my head at how i could be so much slower driving in a circle..
i really hope Talladega would be added in GT7, or the superspeedway layout of daytona
both are the real "turn left and never brake" tracks
When GT Sport servers were still available I would only log on to play on Special Stage Route X servers. Man those were fun :(
I hope we could get some gen7 (or Nextgen) cars to gt7, having on sport mode a Daytona 500 event or some thing like that would be cool
imagine a NASCAR race at SSRX with like 60 cars
maybe even with the 2011 tandem package
Never tought i would be so excited to watch a video of 40 minutes talking about circles
Somehow oval racing is more interesting than driving on Yas Marina. Those nascar silvias are gonna haunt my nightmares
The Valvoline livery was on the buggy early release. Sony offered a disc exchange to get the less buggy update.
This US spec update made the Taurus the generic version.🎉
That’s all I got y’all.😂
NASCAR LIVERIES ON NISSAN SILVIAS MENTIONNED !?
Nice description
27:48 As diehard NASCAR fan, my wet dream is NASCAR race at the Test Course (basically Like the Wind GT3 all over again) i hope someone modded GT3 Test Course into NR2003
Non Athletic Sport Centred Around Rednecks
The cut GT1 "End" track and the circle tracks in license tests also count as oval tracks, technically
I'd say it's the other way around when it comes to ASM. It doesn't actually kill your speed, it MAINTAINS your speed, when cornering. Without ASM, chances are your car will have to slow down on corners since all that speed may also translate to a death slide on even the fastest corners. ASM stands for "Anti Slip Management", take that away and your car will increase its chances of slipping and sliding.
your final challenge: race 10 laps in the toyota vitz at test course
oh hell yes
0:08 Rolling STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART! 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
Everyone talks about how F1 with the pit strategies is a “chess match”. Oval racing is nonstop chess. The concentration levels are off the charts. And, as I’ve often said before, what is so much harder about turning right?
I think some form of Nascar would be the only car i would actually wish to be added to GT7. This style of racing really appeals to me and I think that it could be easily adapted for league racing. Not to mention the possibilitys for livery creators.
Hello!!! I like your thumbnail !
You need to upload a video about formulas in gran turismo's history
If there's something I like on PS3 era of GT (I never had a PS3, sadly), is the inclusion of 2-files rolling start, hopefully I hear it right (not even GT7 have said rolling starts). While it's not showing the definitive oval racing experience, these nitpicky design feels like they're trying, at least. Sure, they have even more proper grid start on GT7, but online e-sport only, and not single player. Aside from nitpicky complain, I kinda like most of made up oval from GT. That test track from PS1 era, feels like something inside a forest, or countryside, the one on PS2 era feels, bland (lelz), in open field, Super Speedway (to TWM Super Speedway soon), feels quite majestic in some sense, and SSRX, it kinda feels like a purposed oval track in out of nowhere, I kinda love the radical setting they got. Blue Moon Speedway look somewhat nice in settings, Broad Bean Speedway could be something existed in the middle of Japan, Northern Isle kinda feels, too realistic? I know the track is inspired by the real deal, it's just doesn't need to be that realistic (just my nitpicky complain anyway). And Lake Louise's tri oval is something I didn't expect (a snow oval), and I like it.
Overall, it's true GT never really treated oval races as that much importance anyway, but to me, GT5 and 6 kinda got oval races right
In GT6 alone on the Daytona oval I have over 12k miles mostly from the nighttime NASCAR race, it doesn't get much better than that for stock cars!
But what everyone really wants to know... is Special Stage Route "X" the highway setting of the intro stage of Mega Man "X"?
As a nascar fan, I think GT has more interest in oval racing as a concept they want to do in their own way, and realistic nascar is sort of an afterthought to their own interpretation of what ovals should be like. Any chance we could get a video on Tourist Trophy at some point soon? I'm nostalgic for that game.
Great thumbnail
If I could replace 15 of the 16 times Test Course appears in GT3 with Complex String I would do it without hesitate
I would love to see a better oval racing representation in GT with more tracks, asymmetrical tuning and of course stock cars plus details mechanics. It wouldnt even need to be nascar branded, there's plenty of series out there. I also would love a proper drag racing mode.
I love nascar 🎶🎶
At the end of the day Gran Turismo (like Forza M.) is not only a simcade, but also a variety racing game. It's a bit like GTA in that regard, which has bad movement and shooting mechanics compared to pure shooters and bad driving compared to racing games. There are many details for specific racing formats that GT and FM don't get right and the reason they can get away with it is because they offer much more beyond that one thing. While it'd be cool if they added more depth to oval racing, there's also quite a few other series this could be said about and there'd be a few on my list I'd prefer.
12:06 actually, yes i was wondering what that song was lol
Damn I got in early
Test Course 10 lap Vitz race
To answer your question: YES. Gran Turismo does get oval racing. There's Northern Isle Speedway, Blue Moon Bay Speedway, Broad Bean Raceway (yes, this is an oval), Daytona, and who knows, maybe Indianapolis? Not to mention the Lake Louise Tri-Oval (rally cars only) and Special Stage Route X. Even the Test Course oval. I wonder if GT7 would add another layout for the Monza track where they just add the classic oval. Yes, Monza had an oval back in the day.
The Daytona Oval Race at GT5 is very impossible to win using LMP cars or NASCAR cars.