It's interesting to see that there really hasn't been THAT much powercreep as far as feats are concerned. Most of the feats after the PHB have just filled in the power gap between the great and the shit feats we started off with.
I appreciate that much of the power creep has been in the form of clarity and QoL, such as newer feats allowing casting of spells with your slots, and allowing you to choose the casting mod generally, and then the feats being allowed at lvl 1, since that is the background design for the upcoming PHB. So really yeah, well done overall
@collinw9792 Right, and I have moved those designs into older feats at my table. In essence, if you get a spell from any source, I allow you to cast it with your normal slots.
@MrJerks93 I mean I have just been using the playtest, but I have largely restricted it to basically just features that were being playtested Like, in my game, you can't take cartomancer, but if you could, you could cast both it and another spell, which would be the only way to cast two high level spells in the same turn (With the exception of like, platinum shield), basically the only bonus action restrictions are attached to metamagic for my game Also, I stitched together both ranger versions to get the hybrid version they said got the most votes in testing, but none of my players picked ranger xD
Aberrant Dragonmark is also from Eberron: Rising From the Last War, and the Wayfinder's Guide to Everything ir pretty much legacy content now. (the only unique mechanics it has are 2 elf variants which you never ranked). Anyway, thanks for the great series!
Cartomancer might need to be ranked even higher. I get that using stage magic via Prestidigitation is a ribbon, but you still *LEARN* Prestidigitation via the feat and can use it regularly in addition to the stage magic.
I think you under rated the teleport ability of Strixhaven Mascot. It is a more versatile Misty Step because it has a longer range and does not require sight. You can summon your familiar through a wall, use its vision to see if that is where you want to be, and then pop into that area. And none of it is a spell, so it cannot be countered. I think with that it should be worth at least as much as Misty Step options. Yes, it is an action to use but honestly the longer range and not needing sight to use it makes it even on balance, and that should push it to A tier. The worst part about the feat is that no one liked Strixhaven because of Silvery Barbs (it kind of put a red flag on all the content from that source). Either way great job, and it was fun hearing your reasoning for all of these. I mostly agree with all the rest. I might quibble a bit here and there about a point or two, but overall things end up about where I would put them. Except for Chef - it should be higher. I love that one :)
I think you slightly underestimate estimate Gift of the Metallic Dragon’s value. Because you learn the cure wounds spell and can cast it with your own slots, that means a party Wizard, Sorcerer, (Warlock debatably) would be able to provide supplementary healing.
I can agree with that, though at the same time IMO he massively overvalued the other bullet point by making it score nearly as much in own right as the defensive duellist feat that is almost the same thing but without the PB times a day limit... So probably a wash really, Chris is right Cure wounds isn't all that great in general, but having access to it and on your normal casting stat for any of the usually healing deprived spell casters really is great, and with Quickened Spell meta magic option you can one up the healing word on your downed friend in healing effectiveness while still doing something useful with your action. That is pretty darn neat for a Sorcerer (plus they don't have the same breadth of spells as a Wizard anyway - anything that helps widen their repitoure is probably good)... I'd also say it isn't very debatable for warlocks either, if you want to make some good use of it you can - a large part of warlock effectiveness in many builds has nothing to do with their limited but short rest refresh spell slots anyway... Obviously you won't be turning into a Life Cleric, but being able to use your 'free' spell slot and save some hit die at the first short rest for the warlock is a nice option to have.
This is actually one of the best feats in the entire game because your combat effectiveness is offense * defence. You can think of it like a rectangle, where the area is your effectiveness and the two side lengths are offence and defence. The thing to realize is that player offence is much easier to increase than defence, leading to defence being the small dimention of the rectangle. Meaning that defence improvements are way more impactful because they multiple your already effective offense. This is litterally a second sheild spell with as many lvl 1 slots as a higher level spell caster and the ability to use it on allies. And sheild is one of the biggest multipliers to your defense. So not only is it impacting the small side of the rectangle meaning it gets a huge boost, but it also is a huge mutiplier in it of itself. This is an absolutely insanely powerful feat, probly in the top 3-5, and it actually works on the most powerful characters, unlike the majority of the S feats on this list which are martial only.
@@Dogo.R Its not really a shield spell at all, as that spell has such a boost to AC and endures for more than just one attack it actually works to save you a huge amount of damage most of the times you'd cast it. Even by level 20 when your PB is a big as its going to get it is still worse than the shield spell for that reasoning. But you can use it on your ally if you happen to be standing right next to them, that is both cool and at the higher levels of play where big powerful AOE effects become ever more common probably a terrible idea... Don't get me wrong though I think it is a very good feat, but lets not oversell it either.
Scion of the Outer Planes is not a half feat since it's designed as a free 1st-level feat, and as such is the prerequisite for any of the other Planescape feats. Free 1st-level feats are supposed to be minor feats, but I doubt the 1st-level feats in the 2024 PHB will all land in F-tier (though none of them includes an Ability Score Increase).
If they are meant to be free background related feats they really should all end up ranked in F when playing against the later game feats you actually have to make a bigger investment to gain. That said plenty of these 'F tier' feats I'd still invest an ASI on for some build concepts - really a list like this has created a seemingly huge gulf between the lower rated Feats and the 'S tier' that is very artificial and only really speaks to how effortless Chris finds it to think of great synergys or find uses for what it gives in the games he plays at. For instance that Squire of Solamnia feat really is great for making it not take half your movement to mount, as otherwise you ever leave or get knocked off your mount that is a whole turn likely wasted - stand from prone, dash to get close enough as you still need half your movement left to mount again, or in the case of an independent mount get off to do something useful and then get back on again to then have the mount carry you away on its initiative. Or I have a PC in mind (who will undoubtedly turn up as an NPC in one my games eventually) that will definitely be taking linguist as to pull that character's chameleon like nature off without obviously displaying and relying on magical ability it will be required, probably Actor too, though that one will actually be less useful. When you need to seem like you belong you'd better speak the language, and having to rely on magic to do so will usually end up your undoing.
@@parheliaa all 15 backgrounds WotC has released since December 2021 has a free 1st-level feat, including Strixhaven (5 backgrounds), Spelljammer (2), Dragonlance (2), Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants (2), Planescape (2), and The Book of Many Things (2).
@@SortKaffe And all of them are campaign settings, or niche books. Most people use mostly PHB/XGE/TCoE as rules basis. So, until the new PHB is released it is not "here are the new rules for backgrounds" but "here you have some backgrounds with powercreep"
I would love to see this done for the playtest reworks. Most of the feats you said needed an Ability Score Increase did get one, while feats like Sharpshooter lost the -5 for +10 damage mechanic.
I agree that the rankings are going to be different once the new rules come out, but that should probably wait until that happens. I don't think you can compare 1st level feats (none of which are half-feats) to 4th level feats (all of which are half-feats). But you do start with at least one, and sometimes two, 1st level feats, so you'll need to consider which of them are worthwhile. But it may also be worth considering whether it's viable to choose any of the 1st level feat over the 4th level feats once you get to higher levels. Overall, it's more complicated.
I really appreciated this ranking exercise and found it overall quite useful to form a more objective view of the 5E feats. However, a word of caution: the ranking system was pretty hard on feats that offer one very good feature but nothing else. Example: Metamagic Adept. I think the two additional metamagic choices and two sorcery points is excellent for a sorcerer at lower levels. At higher levels, I like this on any other caster for subtle spell. Being able to not worry about counterspelling twice per day is totally worth it imo and I would have given the feature more points. Because it only has one feature, it ends up at the bottom of C tier despite having an incredibly useful ability. Meanwhile, Tavern Brawler nickels and dimes it's way to the top of A tier with a bunch of meh features which all add up to a big number in the tier rank but very little at the table. Still, thanks for going through this exercise. Would love to see a video rebalancing a few of the more interesting D and F tier feats.
Weird thing, but if "Ability Score Improvement" was counted as a feat (with a prerequisite of needing to be level 4+), it should score at 50 points under this system (tied with Healer, and Shield Master), meaning every feat in B tier, or lower could potentially be a worse option, unless you are getting a feat at level 1, and are unable to get an Ability Score improvement instead.
That is interesting. Some Feats give you abilities that an ASI cannot, like Shield Master in particular. But then you look at Dual Wielder and that +1 to AC would be better achieved with +2 to Dex, which you probably already wanted to max out (unless you're playing Shagga, son of Dolf and need to wield 2 large axes!).
The fact that Strixhaven Initiate comes free with the one of the Strixhaven Backgrounds is probably why they reduced its power. Those backgrounds are excellent when you're trying to build interesting spellcasters, and I basically always take them if allowed.
i love hearing your insight on each abilities. prob why i dont like the point system u used for these and the races rank, id much rather hear the reasons why u see an option is better/worse than the other. ur subclass rank are my fav videos for that reason.
a point i would like to add about strixhaven mascot, is you dont need to see the mascot to teleport, so you can have the inkling move through a tiny gap and you can teleport there, who needs lockpicking?
Excellent work! Seeing it all laid out made me wonder if instead of categorising them evenly in each category, instead categorising them in point bands. Otherwise there is not much between what makes an S/A or an A/B a feat might not be that much proportionally worse then one in the higher category. For example: S Crossbow expert: 80 Sharpshooter: 75 Elven Accuracy: 74 Lucky 70 War Caster 65 Great Weapon Master 63 Alert: 62 Polearm Master: 60 A Fey Touched: 59 Resilient: 58 Ember of the Fire Giant: 58 Outlands Envoy: 58 Telekinetic: 58 Moderately Armored: 57 Sentinel: 57 Crusher: 57 Tavern Brawler: 56 Ritual Caster: 56 Mounted Combatant: 55 Cartomancer: 55 Telepathic: 55 Aberrant Dragonmark: 54 (74) Infernal Constitution: 54 Shadow Touched: 54 Gunner: 54 Dragon Fear: 53 Adept of the Black Robes: 53 Keenness of the Stone Giant: 53 Agent of Order: 53 Slasher: 52 Mobile: 51 Healer: 50 Shield Master: 50 B Inspiring Leader: 48 Knight of the Crown: 48 Baleful Scion: 48 Fury of the Frost Giant: 48 Skill Expert: 47 Strixhaven Mascot: 47 Tough: 46 Revenant Blade: 45 Heavy Armor Master: 45 Guile of the Cloud Giant: 45 Fighting Initiate: 45 Piercer: 44 Initiate of High Sorcery: 44 Adept of the Red Robes: 43 Divinely Favored: 43 Athlete: 43 Second Chance: 43 Knight of the Sword: 43 Righteous Heritor: 43 Soul of the Storm Giant: 42 Drow High Magic: 41 Knight of the Rose: 41 Skulker: 40 Gift of the Metallic Dragon: 40 Svirfneblin Magic: 40 Dual Wielder: 40 C Squat Nimbleness: 39 Actor: 39 Dwarven Fortitude: 39 Keen Mind: 39 Observant: 39 Vigor of the Hill Giant: 39 Adept of the White Robes: 38 Medium Armor Master: 38 Metamagic Adept: 38 Spell Sniper: 38 Mage Slayer: 38 Fey Teleportation: 38 Defensive duelist: 37 Cohort of Chaos: 37 Dragon Hide: 37 Bountiful luck: 36 Gift of the Gem Dragon: 36 Chef: 36 Heavily Armored: 35 Durable: 35 Flames of Phlegethos: 35 Artificer Initiate: 35 Strixhaven Initiate: 35 Magic Initiate: 34 Poisoner: 34 Fade Away: 34 Squire of Solamnia: 33 Wood Elf Magic: 33 Gift of the Chromatic Dragon: 33 Lightly Armored: 32 Orcish Fury: 32 Elemental Adept: 31 Rune Shaper: 31 Weapon Master: 30 D Linguist: 26 Martial Adept: 25 Eldritch Adept: 25 Strike of the Giants: 25 Prodigy: 24 Planar Wanderer: 23 Scion of the Outer Planes: 23 Charger: 20 Grappler: 20 Savage Attacker: 20 F Dungeon Delver: 19 Skilled: 15
Chris, where would you rate a typical ASI on this chart? Logic says 50 as it's two half feats with no restrictions, however you may view the second half feat as less valuable. Obviously the value changes with level as you're not necessarily raising your primary ability score, just want to know your thoughts (especially considering they're making ASI a feat in 5.5)
Legacy content should always be included in my opinion for one simple reason, once OneD&D comes out I have a feeling WotC will turn all of 5e into legacy content as non of it is up to date anymore.
I know he didnt want to consider prerequisites, but in this and previous videos there are feats that have another feat as a prerequisite, so they can't really be ranked alone. If you want that S tier planescape feat you need to take a F tier one first, and the ranking should really be the average score across the two feats
My Siri on why the new players handbook refers to all spellcasters as prepared casters even if some of them learn spells is because of weird interactions like cartomancy. Going forward, they are probably going to describe these feats as using spells which you can prepare
I think you've undersold the Revenant Blade. Compared to Twin Scimitars @4th you get 2d4+4 & 1d4+4(BA) Dmg vs 1d6+3 & 1d6(BA) Dmg. You also get +2 AC, +1 Init,To-Hit etc. There is no Feat for a Damaged Focused Finesse fighter that does all that. At higher levels, you are only investing in 1 magic weapon.
I think that you missed one advantage of Psion of the Outer plains and the other background feats getting a less common enegery resistance and a free known cantrip at first level without giving up an ability score boost is so great. In Strixhaven and Spelljammer on getting a chose of Tough, Skilled, or Magic Initate if your background does not come with an background feat was a game changer. Psion of the Outer, Planer Wanderer, Initiate of the Tower of Sorcery, Knight of Salomnea, Stixhaven Student, and Strike Of The Giants are all more a ribbon feature to a background and should not be looked at the same as a feat you are giving up an ablity score boost at all or consider them atleast a half feat.
Wotc: dnd is a multiversal game feats: prerequisite- campaign X What even is the point of canpaign prerequisites if all campaigns are in the same multiverse. Say a character joins Campaign A but their background is from campaign B. Campaign B has prereq feats and yeah, you see where this is going. Anyway, awesome series bad also a bit mad to go through *every single feat* . Good lord
6:40 It's almost as if, by design, the feat is balanced by being one of those "free at 1st level" feats given via background. And that it's balanced by being a prerequisite to the actual half-feats that you ranked A and S tier earlier in the video. And how the higher tier level 4 Plane feats are balanced by being the weaker choice at level 1. Just like Strike of the Giants in Bigby's. A note really should have been made, especially when others called out the issue with "ignoring prereqs" in the last video, considering that in order to take this A or S tier feat, it can't be at 1st level (via V. Human or Custom Lineage) and you also needing this F tier feat to take it. Meaning you end up realistically with an averaged score around 38-40, so around a B-C tier overall.
Wow you give Protective wings from the Gift of the Metallic a huge points haul - I agree its good, but until the later stages of play you only get a +2 to somebody's AC against a single attack really isn't much, and the ability for it stack with a shield spell at the cost of both of your reactions to me isn't worth that much extra - its a good synergy but now you can't cast shield on yourself or boost your own AC with this feat. That makes that synergy a bit of a trap in many cases... I'd have said 20 points myself, maybe 25 as by late game when the PB gets larger it will have a greater effect. Edit: Yeah looking at the points you gave Defensive Duellist that isn't limited to PB times a day I think you missed the mark there - the rare occasion you can stack and will actually need to stack Protective wings and a Shield spell is so slight its not worth much of a boost to its point haul, so for most of the time its just defensive duellist but you might be able to apply it to an ally PB times a day... So scoring it more inline with Defensive Duelist I'd say its only worth 10 points for the AC boost - as PB times a day is a serious limit vs unlimited and it perhaps should be even lower still as if you have DD you will use it way way way more times than your PB a day, probably more like 4-5x your PB in each encounter... But gets a few points back for the ribbon feature of maybe being close enough to an ally to help them and that it works against ranged attack - more like a 15 maybe an 18 points haul seems reasonable - ranged attacks are just not common enough, and being within 5' of an ally at the end of your turn is generally a bad idea as you have made AOE effects easier to get multiple targets...
@@AllHailSp00nRiver As it does with Defensive duellist a feat that scored 37 for unlimited uses per day of a very similar mechanic. Other than this working on any attack and maybe being able to help an ally you are standing right next to it really isn't better, and you only get to use it PB times a day. SO even at 20th level you will likely burn up all the uses of it in one, maybe two fights.
It's probably around the same level as Defensive Duelist feature overall. Fewer uses, but the added flexibility of being able to protect your ally instead of yourself, and doesn't require you to be holding a finesse weapon. Notably Protective Wings sounds more useful on a spellcaster that already knows the shield spell, cause they don't want to hold a finesse weapon, and will probably just cast shield when they get hit themselves, but could use Protective Wings when an ally gets hit. Yeah...Treantmonk gave 37 points to the Defensive Duelist feature and 30 points to Protective Wings feature. Seems...reasonable?
@@KaitlynBurnellMath As the Finesse weapon is effectively a prerequisite anyway so by Chris' rules shouldn't count against DD in points haul... And really isn't much restriction anyway. Functionally makes no difference to your damage output unless you wanted to fight with two handed weapons. I'm not saying the metallic feat is useless by any stretch, that wings feature is nice, but its not nearly that nice. It is in effect a massively nerfed version of DD as you get so few uses even by the highest character level with a ribbion feature or two added that will probably never actually get used. But will feel awesome if you actually remember it on the rare occasion it could happen, especially one of those big moment... Still a good feat, as that Cure wounds on your choice of spell casting modifier is really quite good in its own right - one more spell you can prep instead if your class gets it anyway, and it gives classes that would normally have no healing a solid heal. The wings is also at least a PB per day ability you will likely use up usefully and reliably most days which isn't true of all of them. But a tiny number of uses and minor possibility of a synergy to further protect your ally who cast shield isn't worth much, as its not going to come up that much if ever- the range you can protect allies with is just too limited. Plus if protecting your allies was the goal getting the Protection fighting style is just going to be better at it, and again only costs a reaction, and requires you hold a shield which just boosts you AC all the time...
Ok but what was the point? Feats don't exist in a vacuum they are used for building specific characters. Warcaster is amazing but pointless for a Barbarian. Knight of the Sword might be relatively unappealing for most melee builds but is amazing to have for a Polearm wielding Conquest Paladin. Speaking of polearms, what about specific interactions between feats like PAM and Warcaster? Then there are more niche combos that still elevate relative usefulness of a feat like Arcane Trickster Rogue picking up Telekinetic feat to have a subtle cast 120ft invisible mage hand that can be used to steal enemy caster's material component pouch?
I think with Planar Wanderer it's a bit unfair to judge it outside the context of a planescape game. The RAW is that it would only be possible to get in a planescape campaign. Other DMs may allow it but I think 95% of the time it gets used would be in a game with portals coming up pretty regularly.
You know, I thought to myself "It would be funny to take the top 5 feats for *the most mathematically optimized build* and then try to make whatever silly mess of feats work." I forgot this is 5th edition, and the top 3 feats are basically flagship ranger. Understandable, have a good day.
Much like Strike of the Giants, Scion of the Outer Planes and Strixhaven Initiate seem to be proofs of concept for the level 1 background feats being introduced in the 2024 PHB. As such, they all would probably rank much higher if they were compared to those other background feats in a vacuum, as opposed to being compared to feats that are designed to be taken at higher levels.
I'm playing Dragonlance and that Squire of Solamnia feat seems really good for a 1st level feat - I'm still getting significant use out of it at 10th level, giving myself Adv, slight increased chance of crits and an extra damage die worked in. My DM always tracks how many times I use it (and so do I), so it seems significant.
Cartomancer is such.a murky feat, significant parts of it are unclear. 1. Do you need the level in the class to be able to access the hidden ace spell?; 2. Do you use get an extra spell slot for that spell? [it never says that you are casting the spell, only "imbuing" it]; 3. Do you need VSM components when you cast the hidden ace spell? ["flourish the card and cast the spell *within*" , if it's already stored within it sounds like you're not casting it at this point]; I would play it as Yes, No, No* [* material components and others (-as well as the spell slot) are applied when imbuing the card], I'd like to assume that was the hurried/careless designer's published intent anyway.
The feat is a mess in every way except the card trick stuff which is fun. Hidden Ace was DOA when you realize that the designers never once considered multiclassing, since it just says "your class" as if everyone is single-classed.
@@Mrryn The "your class" could also mean your current level in the given class, so you can't go 17 levels cleric and 1 level wizard and get access to Meteor Swarm and Power Word Kill (and all the other ones).
@@williamgordon5443 Could be, but could also be the class that you're leveling in when you gain the ASI/feat option. The fact that it's just as viable a reason is the problem.
I don’t think it’s fair to score feats as if you are not playing in the setting they were designed for. Your assumption should be that you are playing in that campaign and score accordingly, or at least give two scores one with the intended campaign setting and one without.
I disagree, the vast majority of games are either homebrew or the tried & true books like Strahd, Yawning, Avernus. And thus these feats are mostly used outside their designated setting. For example, how many people have played a chronurgist vs actually playing Wildemount, or taken Silvery Barbs despite never touching Candlekeep. So Treant’s system is far more relevant
Cartomancer is insane. It is a free highest available Spell Slot (without the possibility to upcast, but still) The must-have for any spellcaster if it is allowed on your campaign (I hate all "must-have" feats, but it is irrelevant here) After the 17th level, this is equal to Epic Boon
The benefit of Revenant Blade above using a basic scimitar is that it becomes the only weapon in the game that allows a Rogue/Barb character to benefit from sneak attack, rage, and great weapon master. Super fun build with a ton of flavour to it
DBS is not a heavy weapon, therefore GWM doesn’t work here unfortunately. I played a wood elf Revenant Blade Ancestral Guardian/Swashbuckler in a One-Shot before though (called him the Ragebuckler). Still tons of fun, even without great weapon master. I had Boots of speed so 90 feet base movement, 180 ft with dash in every combat. Then run in, hit something recklessly, give it disadvantage to attack anything else but myself, then run out of reach into cover so I wouldn’t be an available target. 😂
I really think background feats should have had that feature put into consideration despite it going against your prerequisite philosophy. Getting them for free at 1st level i believe is a big boon.
Or at the very least make those 4th level feats that require them (Scion of the Planes, Strike of the Giants, etc.) the exception to the "no prereqs" rule. Considering you cannot take them until 4th level (so no V. Human or Custom Lineage abuse) and cannot take them without these F tier feats. So those A and S tier feats he rated would average out to around B or C tier. His comment about the Scion feat ("should've been a half feat") just sums it up that he either didn't read or just didn't care, which isn't a good look either way. Especially when the books themselves outline Skilled and Tough as substitute feats to be given for free with every other background - two other low tier feats. (And yes, I'm including Tough in that low tier because I stand by Chris massively overrating Tough imo)
@@Mrryn yeah, definitely not chris' best tierlist imo. Usually i jive with a good amount of what he says and enjoy his math; but i disagreed with the majority of this series almost from the start just due to the rules he set up. I don't believe this is a good tierlist for anyone to actually use as a guide for play. Still love his content though and my dislike of this series does not reflect on my views of him as a creator.
Cartomancer just has a lot of rules that should have been clarified. On whether cartomancer works the way Treantmonk described...maybe it does, but then again, maybe it doesn't. It has the same wording as learning spells in Eldritch Knight or preparing spells in Cleric. Cartomancer: "The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots." Eldritch Knight: "spell of your choice from the wizard spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots" Cleric: "choosing from the cleric spell list. [...] The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." This is relevant, because the designers have clarified that a Cleric 16 Eldritch Knight 4 can't prepare 9th level Cleric spells or 9th level Wizard spells. So a DM could reasonably make a ruling that Cartomancer works the same way as class features. (The counterargument is mostly "maybe cartomancer is different cause it's a feat and not a class feature", and yeah, maybe, but that's a check with your DM kind of thing). I've also seen people argue about whether it consumes a spell slot--the overall consensus is yes, cause giving people two 9th level spells per day would make it the most broken feat ever printed. But ok that's fine so it consumes a spell slot. But people don't agree on WHEN it consumes the spell slot (does it consume it when you infuse the spell into the deck, or does it consume the spell slot when you use the card to cast the spell)? And then I've also seen people argue that flourishing the card would have no verbal components, essentially giving the hidden ace a subtle spell metamagic. But I've heard other people argue, no, when you flourish the card you cast the spell, so it would have verbal components. Just a feat that needs a lot of rules clarification.
@@KaitlynBurnellMath I'd argue that it pretty clearly doesn't consume a spell slot when you imbue the card, but all your other questions are valid and important to answer. My reading is definitely that the slot and all components (verbal, material, and/or somatic) are required to use the card to cast the spell at the time of casting. The feature just makes it bonus action speed and gives a temporary extra preparation.
@@KaitlynBurnellMath "I've also seen people argue about whether it consumes a spell slot--the overall consensus is yes, cause giving people two 9th level spells per day would make it the most broken feat ever printed." It's obvious that it does not consume slots. You do not even need "it's RAW" argument. The wording is clear. If it did, the wording would be something like "you cast a spell and imbue it in a card", or "you use a spell slot to imbue a card". Yes, it is obviously and stupidly broken, and I wonder how they could miss this But the rest of your questions are still valid.
I think it is worth noting that RAW does not prevent you from casting any spells you gain from feats using spell slots (even if the feat doesn't say you can) as long as you are a known spellcaster. Known casters can always cast any spell they know. Poor prepared casters are limited to only using the feat option to cast. I think this is overlooked and way too often assumed to be a hard limit on those early-published feats when it's not.
Technically, all spellcasters say that you use your spell slots on a specific class. Like sorcerer use their spell slots on sorcerer spells and eldritch knights using wizard spells. So there is an argument that you can't use your spell slots on spells learned from feats sense they don't count as a class spell. The only feat that does work for sure is Magic Initiative, and even then, the long answer given in Sage Advice makes it look like you have to have a matching class and magic initiative for it to work. It says that a sorcerer with the sorcerer magic initiative can cast the sorcerer spells learned.
Will be some summary what you learn from this ranking similar in videos Ranking the subclasses - The Final Summary or Racial Option Tier Ranks Dnd5e: Final Video?
A video on Thursday?! It's not even my birthday! I was surprised Cartomancer didn't get S tier for being able to give a Wizard the ability to cast any Cleric spell by using Miracle as its Ace with a level dip. I never realized they took that spell out of the game! Always learning! (Though I feel a bit like I've Mandela Effected into a new universe and my old one definitely had Miracle as a spell in 5e😂) Cheers Chris! Thanks for this series and your hard work putting videos together for us! 💜
I thought for a moment it would make sense to penalize feats that require another feat as a prerequisite, but the more I think about it, it isn't necessary. Just add up the feats that have a prerequisite and divide by that number, and that tells you how good the feats actually are on average.
I don't know about the rating for Gift of the Gem Dragon. It gives you a reaction for spell casters. I know Counter Spell, Shield blah blah blah. Unless you are a cleric (or some such) suited up in Heavy Armor or a Blade Singer with crazy AC you will get hit even if you have Shield. This lets you push a melee attacker away from you so no opportunity attacks to GTFO. The BIGGEST part of the feat is that there is no riders as to the size of the attacker. And before anyone says blah blah strength save. Nothing is 100% guaranteed to work.
The 10' push reaction being useful by itself requires the enemy to not have enough movement to walk back to you [or being killed by the 2d8 dmg], which is a pretty big *if* in most scenarios, in additional to failing the strength save. Of course external circumstances like aoe's, terrain and allies can improve it, but that is harder to control and you probably will only have 2-4 chances to attempt it per long rest
For your next ranking list could you rank multiclass build's for example fighter+warlock warlock+sorcerer and so on To avoid ranking everything it would be good idea to not include multiclass that are weaker than the base class After you do this it would be nice to compere it to the subclass tier list you made in the past
So an ASI (Ability Score Increase) is 50 points, bottom of A Tier. That makes a good benchmark - is the feat better than taking ASI? Of course, your concept probably trumps pure 'value', but again, it makes for a good benchmark.
I've used Aberrant Dragonmark on a tempest cleric in a oneshot. Coupled it with Crusher for some melee action, very Thor-like, even Spirit Guardians were reflavoured as a static field. And I have to say, on this particular build this feat felt awesome! Build-defining cantrip (Booming Blade), build-defining spell (Shield) AND get your con to 16 all at once? Get out of town! (Our DM interprets that "you learn the spell" means you can cast in with your spellslots, newer feats are simply clarifying this.)
the sorcerer I'm currently playing got the greater aberrant power part of aberrant dragonmark and I haven't yet gotten any benefits from having it, though to be fair I only got it recently
Regarding Gift of the Chromatic Dragon, sure these can be reproduced by spells but they can be reproduced by spells. Since the feat has no spells involved they cannot be counterspelled and work with Barbarian’s Rage. Perhaps the extra damage could scale, but it’s hardly a bad feat at all
It "feels" like there should be some kind of bonus for the ones you can get for free. Like the infamous Strixhaven Intiate... It's not really fair to have on on the same scoring system if it's free.
So let’s say you missed a feature of a feat that lets you have the same benefits that warcaster gives with using somatic components while wielding a shield, should that feature get a bump of 15 points just like you gave that ability of warcaster?
I think I'd give Telekinetic Reprisal from Gift of the Gem Dragon a bit more points - that 10' of shove could easily save your PC from further harm as so many things, especially the nastier monsters with powerful multiattacks are not getting to use them - they won't have enough movement to get back in range. A no size restriction forced movement is pretty rare, and damage even on a success is nice too.
The teleportation feature of Strixhaven Mascot works best with the Inkling familiar. Being a flying ooze, it can get into all sorts of places. Woomy! 😁
Out of the entire list, the Draconic Gifts are the ones I disagree most with: I think you've overrated Gift of the Metallic Dragon's Protective Wings a bit - assuming you're only using it when it will make the attack miss, you are only negating a PB amount of attacks, it's only one attack at a time and consumes your Reaction, 30 points seems a bit high, wouldn't give it more than 25 personally; Cure Wounds always prepared and one free cast is decent, sure. On the other hand, I think you underrated the other two! Gem's Telekinetic Reprisal only slightly: it is also a Reaction, but you take it on damage. Many monsters have multi-attacks, and this can prevent them from attacking you more than once by pushing them out of reach (assuming they had already used most of their movement to walk up to you) and allow you to retreat safely without using Disengage, plus it has a decent damage rider. I don't think its amazing, but I would have bumped it from 13 to 15. Finally the Gift of the Chromatic Dragon's Chromatic Infusion is a Bonus Action that lasts 1 minute, single use/long rest. It's only for one combat, but you'll save it for the tough one and it should last for the whole thing. Great buff for the Martials, and even if you aren't one, you can target an ally's weapon. 1d4 isn't amazing, but it's concentration-free and will stack with other buffs. Most Hasted lvl 5 Martials can have three chances per turn to deliver it for a potential 3d4 plus any reaction attack per round. You also pick the damage type, so the rider of being able to avoid resistances or immunities; Reactive Resistance is similar to Absorb Elements like you mention, which is a good spell, and this is basically having it prepared for free, it's not only a "single use without a Spell Slot", but a PB number, can't be Counterspelled (niche, but worth maybe 1 extra point? I've had that happen to me!) and has no Spell Components at all. I would have bumped the 15 to 18-20 (again: concentrationless buff, can pick damage type) and the 18 to 23-25 ("Absorb Elements" PB times/long rest, no components, can't be countered). Let me know if I missed anything! I'm aware you were probably already accounting for most of (if not all) the things I've listed, but as I was watching, these particular scorings caught be by surprise. Great video as always!
I think there is a huge flaw in your ranking system... it doesn't account for prerequisites. A feat is not as good if not everyone can get it. Anyone can get Lucky, that makes it powerful, and it can be had at level 1 with the right background, or the new level 1 feat for everyone rules, or as a variant human. Meanwhile, some feats require you to be a specific race or from a small list of specific races -25 points for group, -50 for singular. Some feats require a specific ability score, -5 points per point of ability score over 10, so a 13+ requirement is a -15, a 18+ requirement is a -40. Some feats require you be a specific level to take them, -5 points per level over 1. And some feats require you to have another feat to take them, -25 points per other feat required. Campaign Specific is a Ribbon Flaw, easily bypassed by having a fair and decent DM, so -5 just for representing that (It is effectively -infinity if it isn't available because the DM doesn't allow it due to campaign specifics, so it is either a minor inconvenience to reflavor it for the campaign, or it isn't available anyway, so -5 just helps show that minor issue). Agent of Order is great, until you realize that you had to have Scion of the Outer Planes and be 4th level or higher to get it, which means you can't be doing that at the start of the game, You gave it a 53 (25+28), an A tier, but it should be a 18 (25+28-15-25), an F Tier... the Feat loses its value when you need at least four, if not eight or more levels to get it AND had to take an F tier (by your own rating system) Feat first to get it. Please redo this multi video list properly, taking into account ALL Factors (Granted by a Background for Free, in addition to a possible one from racial or other means should also ADD to its value... Lucky, Skilled, Tough, Especially 'Strixhaven' Initiate, all are better because there is a way to get them freely during character generation... I'd give that a +20 value, free is worth more than costing you)... maybe consider other factors... Limitless use (Sharpshooter, can be used on every shot) is better than proficiency bonus use (Strike of the Giants grows, but is two uses early game, and only 6 uses late game), or set # of uses (Lucky has 3 Uses), or single use per long rest... also, some feats have sub feats (Strixhaven Initiate, Strike of the Giants) and some options may be better than others (Quandrix Initiate vs Lorehound Initiate... Stone Strike vs Cloud Strike) and those can actually factor into the value, but you overlooked them.
I've been theory crafting a build utilizing Adept of the Black Robes life Channel ability, casting moonbeam, call lightning, maybe minute meteors etc. Then, wild shape, use the beasts hit die. Moon druid 5, tempest cleric 2 for shenanigans. Would you consider this an exploit or straight up cheese? My DM is working with me to balance it by keeping track of beasts hit dice, and really accounting for beasts seen/ available options.
I felt your system had two major issues - major undervaluation of anything non-combat (almost everything you ranked 5-9 as a ribbon should be boosted by 5 points - a cantrip option is not a ribbon ever whether it is a feature for an origin, feat, or class/subclass) and the half-feats are overvalued anytime the feat's features didn't even bust 15 points. With only 8 points beyond the ASI, weapon master is automatically the worst feat since a second ASI in only stat (20) would be better by an overwhelming margin.
Love your stuff! If you do more tier lists, on the red, purple, and blue squares you should try using white text instead of black. It's far more legible and more accessible! Friendly advice from a designer!
Oh wow, if you use Aberrant Dragonmark correctly it is that potent? Well, I'm looking to pick it up on my Barbarian for flavor reasons so for me it's more like half an ASI... But good to know I took a theoretically strong feat and will just use it wrong. :D
I think the tricky thing about the feats in books like Bigby's, Strixhaven, Planescape, etc. are the prerequisites. In a lot of cases, you'd need to take a mediocre or bad feat in order to qualify for the real bangers.
So, about a third of all feats ever published are effectively as good or better than an ASI. WotC really padded their list to make it seem like there's a lot of flexibility and options, when in actuality, there is much less. It kind of sucks, as feats should have been an easy mechanism to inject variety and personal style into your PCs.
I think it was a little unfair to rate the feats that had a prerequisite of Planescape Campaign as if you weren't playing Planescape, when in other cases where a feat is only good for a specific type of character, you rated it from the perspective of that specific type of character. Even if that type of character is very specific like with Revenant Blade. I understand not taking the prerequisites into account, but I feel like you should at least take the prerequisites into account in the sense anyone who takes the feat definitely already has the prerequisites. (Yes, some DMs will ignore that, and that's a house rule. I could house rule away the prereq on Dragon Fear, and if I did that it would be very bad to take it as a non-Dragonborn, but that's not the version in the book that's getting reviewed.)
Hard disagree on revenant blade, the part that gives the weapon finesse is niche but extremely powerful for rogues. Hear me out on this one, the finesse on double bladed scimitar allows rogues to take great weapon fighting. Now hear me out even further great weapon fighting by RAW great weapon fighting applies to all the damage die added to the attack IE sneak attack. I understand crawford's old ruling but frankly the ruling is one of his earliest and weakest rulings. His reasoning for what he claimed was the rules as intended was that it would take too long to reroll all those dice every turn which is objectively wrong in practice, when playing a rogue both rolled sneak attack dice and booming blad dice greaybweapon fighting never added more than 10 seconds to a turn, practically nothing compared to casting most spells in the game. Aside from that numberous erratas were released after this ruling and none of those choose to fix the wording of great weapon fighting. I think you should give this feat and fighting style another chance. 10 points instead of 5
Overall great job, I really don't agree with many of the scores you have given, though think your take overall and basic methodology has some value - you have collated all the feats from all over into one resource while also providing some hint if its worth actually looking the feat up. That is actually really useful. Also it is nice to see another take on the value of certain features and surmise what it means for how others play the game. In your case I'd say you almost never if ever play the game at less than 10th level and don't generally play in games where tactical movement to make use of map features is that important, and clearly never go dungeon delving or play games where languages matter much...
Once again another amazing series from TM. This and the species video have been very valuable to my character creation. Would love to see these same takes after one D&D comes out.
Only 23 points for Scion of the Outer Planes??? It's an "extra" background feat. Chaotic grants resistance to Poison for any character build, the most common damage type NOT included in the Absorb Elements spell + Minor Illusion, one of the best utility cantrips! Besides disintegrate, new monster design makes Force resistance awesome + Guidance, the most useful cantrip period. Psychic resistance for Int save spells & Bearbarians get resistance to ALL damage. Necrotic is the best resistance (according to Pack Tactics) and is difficult to get! Lots of damage halved fighting Shadow Dragons or Alhoons.
For those feats where you can't use a spell slot, what would be the numerical increase if you decided they could actually be used again with an appropriate level spell slot? 10 pts? less?
This was the feat tier ranking I didn't think I needed, yet I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm interested to see how the 2024 edition feats rank compared to this one.
RE: Cohort of Chaos, Unbound Chaotic Flare Does anyone know how this resolves timing wise? If you proc it, does it occur before the effect that you were rolling for or after? Also, does it give you an additional amount of teleportation range equal to your walking speed, or do you need movement speed left over? It seems like it gives you a 20'-35' teleport after the roll but before resolution, but I am looking for solid answers. Example: A Fireball connects with a player at the edge of its AoE template. The player rolls a 1 on the DEX save. The player elects to teleport to a square outside the AoE template. What happens?
The player can't use the teleport until they use their movement, which will be on their next turn, or they use some reaction-move feature. Regardless, the triggering saving throw is happening immediately and is concurrent with the damage rolled for it, the save just decides which amount you take. So you can't teleport away here
Feats values are really difficult to pin down. While a feat like Crossbow Expert is invaluable to a fighter or rogue, trying to do damage, it can be useless to a god-wizard. Sure, there are a few that are just good regardless of character build, like Resilient. But most are very dependent on character build. Take, for example, Gift of the Chromatic Dragon. To most builds, it's irrelevant. But to a tank Barbarian who's not a Bear Totem, it's very powerful since it gives elemental resistance that isn't a spell.
CE is not useless for wizard (it removes disadvantage on ranged attacks when opponents are next to you) But here feats are evaluated mostly for builds where they are most useful
must hav missed it: what point value do you award to feats that come free from backgrounds? between dragonlance,spelljammer,just every"new"campaign book, they seem to be worth something...
i like your feat rankings, but it is a shame to see that several recent feats got such low rankings, despite being a) prerequisite to some S & A tier feats, & more importantly, b) background feats. planescape, bigby’s & dragonlance all have feats that are the feat for those campaign-specific backgrounds. i agree, they all would have been great as half-feats, but considering you get them for free with the background, instead of taking them in place of an ASI, i feel like there should have been some weight given to that. being able to slap planar scion onto a level 1 character is a pretty good boost, in my opinion.
I agree, but as Crawford has said in interviews, the feats can be taken at later levels by anyone who didn't take the background, so Chris is grading on that.
General consensus is that you still need to use spell slots when you use the Hidden Ace feature of cartomancer. (Although people disagree about WHEN you use the spell slot. Do you use it when you infuse the ace? When you flourish the ace? People disagree). In fact, people disagree about pretty much every aspect of Cartomancer; it badly needs rules clarification.
A lot of the new feats that come with a background seem to be meant more for compatibility with the new PHB. So no half feats and not very powerful because they're level 1, by design
So with Cartomancer, of a player wanted to use it, would you prefer them taking the official version where any spell can be added just as long as you’ve got the spell slots, or the UA version where instead of any spell level you have slots for, instead you get hidden ace limited to proficiency bonus for the cards spell level but it has no time limits so if you’ve got downtime you could theoretically make a bunch of hidden aces and carry with you?
Skilled is the most surprising to me. I do think it's worth considering the value of a skill proficiency. Can it really be considered a ribbon? It has no limit on how often it can benefit you, it scales with your character permanently, and it is always ready so you don't need to worry about using the feature prior to the check.
I completely agree. He looked at all the other feats for best case scenario and gave them ridiculous numbers, but Skilled, which can give you three fantastic skills that are used 90% of the game were just considered a ribbon because you might not choose the best skills. It's not consistent.
I think the main issue with skilled is that there are much, much better feats now. Prodigy was considered quite a bit better than Skilled when that feat first came out. And that was a race-restricted feat that gave you one skill proficiency and one expertise. Expertise being quite a bit more valuable than just skill proficiency cause you can't just get expertise from your background or your race. And then later in Tasha's, Prodigy got massively powercrept by Skill Expert, which took prodigy, removed the racial restriction, and made it a half-feat. You could make a case for bumping all the skill related feats up a bit--I could see putting Skill Expert in A tier (Treantmonk has it in B tier). But I think A tier is more-or-less the ceiling for Skill Expert. The S-tier half feats are like Fey Touched, Telekinetic, Crusher, Resillient--I don't think Skill Expert belongs in S. But...yeah, wherever Skill Expert is, Prodigy is going to be 25 points lower than that, cause it's not a half-feat, and Skilled should be lower than Prodigy.
I think that one of the problems with Skilled, is that you're getting at least 4 skills from your background and class, so do you need 3 more. While Skill Expert and Prodigy will give you expertise in a skill.
I wonder how this list would change if we looked at Jeremy’s new 1st level feats that we’ll see with the Revised 5e PHB this year. I think some, like tough, become A tier if you compare it to other 1st level feats. Similarly, the new lightly armored feat we saw in playtest 1 I think is S tier again if we are talking 1st level feat and now access to medium armor and shields as a wizard at level 1. I hope you continue this series in the near future with the new PHB!
Since you can still pick 1st-level feats later on, I find it relevant to assess all feats on the same scale. That said, I'm looking forward to a video considering the curated list of feats that will be available at 1st level once the 2024 PHB is out.
@@SortKaffe Agreed. What I'd personally love to see is one combined list of all feats, lvl 1 and otherwise, but a distinct marking such as a different colour or border for lvl 1 feats to make it easier to compare them to each other while also seeing which of them are still a viable option to pick up at higher levels.
One thing that I can see doing with this, is granting new characters a bonus D or F ranked Feat at character creation :P A little something to customize more, but not anything that's ever worth spending a *real* Feat on...
Funny because that's what books like Bigby's, Strixhaven, and Spelljammer do with their D and F tier feats like Strixhaven Initiate, Strike of the Giants, and Scion of the Planes - they are literally given for free as part of the specific background introduced in the same book. And the books outline giving every character that takes any other background one of two feats for free instead: either Skilled or Tough. Which is kinda crazy considering how highly Chris rated Tough but I also think Chris massively overrated Tough as well to put it mid to high B tier. Also a few of the B, A, and S tier feats Chris rated from those books are also gated to being level 4 minimum and needing those same D and F tier feats in order to take them, meaning the feats actually average as a package to around the B to C range.
@@Mrrynyeah, I haven't read those books, but those feats really did seem like they were intended to be free background feats. 6e is also going to have free level one feats, but they had things like Lucky in there 🤪 I also think it's interesting how Lightly Armored and Heavily Armored are rated so lowly, but Shield Proficiency pops Moderately Armored so high. (incidentally, I also rate Tough relatively high, about equal with an ASI, as it's double half the benefit of increasing your Con score)
Aw man, it’s over, he’s putting his feats down
Up*
His feats down and the feet up
😂
It's interesting to see that there really hasn't been THAT much powercreep as far as feats are concerned. Most of the feats after the PHB have just filled in the power gap between the great and the shit feats we started off with.
They have gotten better at balancing feats for sure.
I appreciate that much of the power creep has been in the form of clarity and QoL, such as newer feats allowing casting of spells with your slots, and allowing you to choose the casting mod generally, and then the feats being allowed at lvl 1, since that is the background design for the upcoming PHB. So really yeah, well done overall
@collinw9792 Right, and I have moved those designs into older feats at my table. In essence, if you get a spell from any source, I allow you to cast it with your normal slots.
@MrJerks93 I mean I have just been using the playtest, but I have largely restricted it to basically just features that were being playtested
Like, in my game, you can't take cartomancer, but if you could, you could cast both it and another spell, which would be the only way to cast two high level spells in the same turn (With the exception of like, platinum shield), basically the only bonus action restrictions are attached to metamagic for my game
Also, I stitched together both ranger versions to get the hybrid version they said got the most votes in testing, but none of my players picked ranger xD
Aberrant Dragonmark is also from Eberron: Rising From the Last War, and the Wayfinder's Guide to Everything ir pretty much legacy content now. (the only unique mechanics it has are 2 elf variants which you never ranked).
Anyway, thanks for the great series!
Treantmonk's Temple, Your videos always make me happy, so I subscribed!
Awesome, thank you!
Cartomancer might need to be ranked even higher. I get that using stage magic via Prestidigitation is a ribbon, but you still *LEARN* Prestidigitation via the feat and can use it regularly in addition to the stage magic.
I think you under rated the teleport ability of Strixhaven Mascot. It is a more versatile Misty Step because it has a longer range and does not require sight. You can summon your familiar through a wall, use its vision to see if that is where you want to be, and then pop into that area. And none of it is a spell, so it cannot be countered. I think with that it should be worth at least as much as Misty Step options. Yes, it is an action to use but honestly the longer range and not needing sight to use it makes it even on balance, and that should push it to A tier. The worst part about the feat is that no one liked Strixhaven because of Silvery Barbs (it kind of put a red flag on all the content from that source).
Either way great job, and it was fun hearing your reasoning for all of these. I mostly agree with all the rest. I might quibble a bit here and there about a point or two, but overall things end up about where I would put them. Except for Chef - it should be higher. I love that one :)
I agree with the Chef love. It's very flavorful.
I think you slightly underestimate estimate Gift of the Metallic Dragon’s value. Because you learn the cure wounds spell and can cast it with your own slots, that means a party Wizard, Sorcerer, (Warlock debatably) would be able to provide supplementary healing.
I can agree with that, though at the same time IMO he massively overvalued the other bullet point by making it score nearly as much in own right as the defensive duellist feat that is almost the same thing but without the PB times a day limit... So probably a wash really, Chris is right Cure wounds isn't all that great in general, but having access to it and on your normal casting stat for any of the usually healing deprived spell casters really is great, and with Quickened Spell meta magic option you can one up the healing word on your downed friend in healing effectiveness while still doing something useful with your action. That is pretty darn neat for a Sorcerer (plus they don't have the same breadth of spells as a Wizard anyway - anything that helps widen their repitoure is probably good)... I'd also say it isn't very debatable for warlocks either, if you want to make some good use of it you can - a large part of warlock effectiveness in many builds has nothing to do with their limited but short rest refresh spell slots anyway... Obviously you won't be turning into a Life Cleric, but being able to use your 'free' spell slot and save some hit die at the first short rest for the warlock is a nice option to have.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 And with a sorcerer, cure wounds is also eligible for twinned and distant spell Metamagic.
@henrymalinowski5125 or Quickened Spell if you need to Dash or Disengage to get to them.
This is actually one of the best feats in the entire game because your combat effectiveness is offense * defence.
You can think of it like a rectangle, where the area is your effectiveness and the two side lengths are offence and defence.
The thing to realize is that player offence is much easier to increase than defence, leading to defence being the small dimention of the rectangle. Meaning that defence improvements are way more impactful because they multiple your already effective offense.
This is litterally a second sheild spell with as many lvl 1 slots as a higher level spell caster and the ability to use it on allies.
And sheild is one of the biggest multipliers to your defense.
So not only is it impacting the small side of the rectangle meaning it gets a huge boost, but it also is a huge mutiplier in it of itself.
This is an absolutely insanely powerful feat, probly in the top 3-5, and it actually works on the most powerful characters, unlike the majority of the S feats on this list which are martial only.
@@Dogo.R Its not really a shield spell at all, as that spell has such a boost to AC and endures for more than just one attack it actually works to save you a huge amount of damage most of the times you'd cast it.
Even by level 20 when your PB is a big as its going to get it is still worse than the shield spell for that reasoning. But you can use it on your ally if you happen to be standing right next to them, that is both cool and at the higher levels of play where big powerful AOE effects become ever more common probably a terrible idea...
Don't get me wrong though I think it is a very good feat, but lets not oversell it either.
Scion of the Outer Planes is not a half feat since it's designed as a free 1st-level feat, and as such is the prerequisite for any of the other Planescape feats.
Free 1st-level feats are supposed to be minor feats, but I doubt the 1st-level feats in the 2024 PHB will all land in F-tier (though none of them includes an Ability Score Increase).
If they are meant to be free background related feats they really should all end up ranked in F when playing against the later game feats you actually have to make a bigger investment to gain. That said plenty of these 'F tier' feats I'd still invest an ASI on for some build concepts - really a list like this has created a seemingly huge gulf between the lower rated Feats and the 'S tier' that is very artificial and only really speaks to how effortless Chris finds it to think of great synergys or find uses for what it gives in the games he plays at.
For instance that Squire of Solamnia feat really is great for making it not take half your movement to mount, as otherwise you ever leave or get knocked off your mount that is a whole turn likely wasted - stand from prone, dash to get close enough as you still need half your movement left to mount again, or in the case of an independent mount get off to do something useful and then get back on again to then have the mount carry you away on its initiative. Or I have a PC in mind (who will undoubtedly turn up as an NPC in one my games eventually) that will definitely be taking linguist as to pull that character's chameleon like nature off without obviously displaying and relying on magical ability it will be required, probably Actor too, though that one will actually be less useful. When you need to seem like you belong you'd better speak the language, and having to rely on magic to do so will usually end up your undoing.
For now, background in the PSCS is the only one giving a free feat, so it is an aberration rather than the norm.
@@parheliaa all 15 backgrounds WotC has released since December 2021 has a free 1st-level feat, including Strixhaven (5 backgrounds), Spelljammer (2), Dragonlance (2), Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants (2), Planescape (2), and The Book of Many Things (2).
@@SortKaffe And all of them are campaign settings, or niche books.
Most people use mostly PHB/XGE/TCoE as rules basis.
So, until the new PHB is released it is not "here are the new rules for backgrounds" but "here you have some backgrounds with powercreep"
I would love to see this done for the playtest reworks. Most of the feats you said needed an Ability Score Increase did get one, while feats like Sharpshooter lost the -5 for +10 damage mechanic.
I'm pretty much done doing videos covering the playtest, the official books start coming out in just a few months.
I agree that the rankings are going to be different once the new rules come out, but that should probably wait until that happens. I don't think you can compare 1st level feats (none of which are half-feats) to 4th level feats (all of which are half-feats). But you do start with at least one, and sometimes two, 1st level feats, so you'll need to consider which of them are worthwhile. But it may also be worth considering whether it's viable to choose any of the 1st level feat over the 4th level feats once you get to higher levels. Overall, it's more complicated.
@@TreantmonksTemple maybe a concept worth revisiting though once they come out
It would be interesting if Chris ever ranks spells like this if he would go back and update the feats to reflect those point totals.
I really appreciated this ranking exercise and found it overall quite useful to form a more objective view of the 5E feats. However, a word of caution: the ranking system was pretty hard on feats that offer one very good feature but nothing else. Example: Metamagic Adept. I think the two additional metamagic choices and two sorcery points is excellent for a sorcerer at lower levels. At higher levels, I like this on any other caster for subtle spell. Being able to not worry about counterspelling twice per day is totally worth it imo and I would have given the feature more points. Because it only has one feature, it ends up at the bottom of C tier despite having an incredibly useful ability. Meanwhile, Tavern Brawler nickels and dimes it's way to the top of A tier with a bunch of meh features which all add up to a big number in the tier rank but very little at the table. Still, thanks for going through this exercise. Would love to see a video rebalancing a few of the more interesting D and F tier feats.
Weird thing, but if "Ability Score Improvement" was counted as a feat (with a prerequisite of needing to be level 4+), it should score at 50 points under this system (tied with Healer, and Shield Master), meaning every feat in B tier, or lower could potentially be a worse option, unless you are getting a feat at level 1, and are unable to get an Ability Score improvement instead.
That is interesting. Some Feats give you abilities that an ASI cannot, like Shield Master in particular. But then you look at Dual Wielder and that +1 to AC would be better achieved with +2 to Dex, which you probably already wanted to max out (unless you're playing Shagga, son of Dolf and need to wield 2 large axes!).
This series was sooo interesting and useful, thank you!
The fact that Strixhaven Initiate comes free with the one of the Strixhaven Backgrounds is probably why they reduced its power. Those backgrounds are excellent when you're trying to build interesting spellcasters, and I basically always take them if allowed.
i love hearing your insight on each abilities. prob why i dont like the point system u used for these and the races rank, id much rather hear the reasons why u see an option is better/worse than the other. ur subclass rank are my fav videos for that reason.
a point i would like to add about strixhaven mascot, is you dont need to see the mascot to teleport, so you can have the inkling move through a tiny gap and you can teleport there, who needs lockpicking?
I'm just happy to finally talk about how solid the Aberrant Dragonmark feat is. Its solid with a side of optional wait WHAT
Excellent work! Seeing it all laid out made me wonder if instead of categorising them evenly in each category, instead categorising them in point bands. Otherwise there is not much between what makes an S/A or an A/B a feat might not be that much proportionally worse then one in the higher category.
For example:
S
Crossbow expert: 80
Sharpshooter: 75
Elven Accuracy: 74
Lucky 70
War Caster 65
Great Weapon Master 63
Alert: 62
Polearm Master: 60
A
Fey Touched: 59
Resilient: 58
Ember of the Fire Giant: 58
Outlands Envoy: 58
Telekinetic: 58
Moderately Armored: 57
Sentinel: 57
Crusher: 57
Tavern Brawler: 56
Ritual Caster: 56
Mounted Combatant: 55
Cartomancer: 55
Telepathic: 55
Aberrant Dragonmark: 54 (74)
Infernal Constitution: 54
Shadow Touched: 54
Gunner: 54
Dragon Fear: 53
Adept of the Black Robes: 53
Keenness of the Stone Giant: 53
Agent of Order: 53
Slasher: 52
Mobile: 51
Healer: 50
Shield Master: 50
B
Inspiring Leader: 48
Knight of the Crown: 48
Baleful Scion: 48
Fury of the Frost Giant: 48
Skill Expert: 47
Strixhaven Mascot: 47
Tough: 46
Revenant Blade: 45
Heavy Armor Master: 45
Guile of the Cloud Giant: 45
Fighting Initiate: 45
Piercer: 44
Initiate of High Sorcery: 44
Adept of the Red Robes: 43
Divinely Favored: 43
Athlete: 43
Second Chance: 43
Knight of the Sword: 43
Righteous Heritor: 43
Soul of the Storm Giant: 42
Drow High Magic: 41
Knight of the Rose: 41
Skulker: 40
Gift of the Metallic Dragon: 40
Svirfneblin Magic: 40
Dual Wielder: 40
C
Squat Nimbleness: 39
Actor: 39
Dwarven Fortitude: 39
Keen Mind: 39
Observant: 39
Vigor of the Hill Giant: 39
Adept of the White Robes: 38
Medium Armor Master: 38
Metamagic Adept: 38
Spell Sniper: 38
Mage Slayer: 38
Fey Teleportation: 38
Defensive duelist: 37
Cohort of Chaos: 37
Dragon Hide: 37
Bountiful luck: 36
Gift of the Gem Dragon: 36
Chef: 36
Heavily Armored: 35
Durable: 35
Flames of Phlegethos: 35
Artificer Initiate: 35
Strixhaven Initiate: 35
Magic Initiate: 34
Poisoner: 34
Fade Away: 34
Squire of Solamnia: 33
Wood Elf Magic: 33
Gift of the Chromatic Dragon: 33
Lightly Armored: 32
Orcish Fury: 32
Elemental Adept: 31
Rune Shaper: 31
Weapon Master: 30
D
Linguist: 26
Martial Adept: 25
Eldritch Adept: 25
Strike of the Giants: 25
Prodigy: 24
Planar Wanderer: 23
Scion of the Outer Planes: 23
Charger: 20
Grappler: 20
Savage Attacker: 20
F
Dungeon Delver: 19
Skilled: 15
Chris, where would you rate a typical ASI on this chart? Logic says 50 as it's two half feats with no restrictions, however you may view the second half feat as less valuable. Obviously the value changes with level as you're not necessarily raising your primary ability score, just want to know your thoughts (especially considering they're making ASI a feat in 5.5)
Tongues is such a under-rated spell. I used it to great effect on my bard.
Legacy content should always be included in my opinion for one simple reason, once OneD&D comes out I have a feeling WotC will turn all of 5e into legacy content as non of it is up to date anymore.
I know he didnt want to consider prerequisites, but in this and previous videos there are feats that have another feat as a prerequisite, so they can't really be ranked alone. If you want that S tier planescape feat you need to take a F tier one first, and the ranking should really be the average score across the two feats
My Siri on why the new players handbook refers to all spellcasters as prepared casters even if some of them learn spells is because of weird interactions like cartomancy. Going forward, they are probably going to describe these feats as using spells which you can prepare
I think you've undersold the Revenant Blade.
Compared to Twin Scimitars @4th you get 2d4+4 & 1d4+4(BA) Dmg vs 1d6+3 & 1d6(BA) Dmg. You also get +2 AC, +1 Init,To-Hit etc.
There is no Feat for a Damaged Focused Finesse fighter that does all that.
At higher levels, you are only investing in 1 magic weapon.
I think that you missed one advantage of Psion of the Outer plains and the other background feats getting a less common enegery resistance and a free known cantrip at first level without giving up an ability score boost is so great. In Strixhaven and Spelljammer on getting a chose of Tough, Skilled, or Magic Initate if your background does not come with an background feat was a game changer. Psion of the Outer, Planer Wanderer, Initiate of the Tower of Sorcery, Knight of Salomnea, Stixhaven Student, and Strike Of The Giants are all more a ribbon feature to a background and should not be looked at the same as a feat you are giving up an ablity score boost at all or consider them atleast a half feat.
Wotc: dnd is a multiversal game
feats: prerequisite- campaign X
What even is the point of canpaign prerequisites if all campaigns are in the same multiverse. Say a character joins Campaign A but their background is from campaign B. Campaign B has prereq feats and yeah, you see where this is going.
Anyway, awesome series bad also a bit mad to go through *every single feat* . Good lord
6:40 It's almost as if, by design, the feat is balanced by being one of those "free at 1st level" feats given via background. And that it's balanced by being a prerequisite to the actual half-feats that you ranked A and S tier earlier in the video. And how the higher tier level 4 Plane feats are balanced by being the weaker choice at level 1. Just like Strike of the Giants in Bigby's.
A note really should have been made, especially when others called out the issue with "ignoring prereqs" in the last video, considering that in order to take this A or S tier feat, it can't be at 1st level (via V. Human or Custom Lineage) and you also needing this F tier feat to take it. Meaning you end up realistically with an averaged score around 38-40, so around a B-C tier overall.
Wow you give Protective wings from the Gift of the Metallic a huge points haul - I agree its good, but until the later stages of play you only get a +2 to somebody's AC against a single attack really isn't much, and the ability for it stack with a shield spell at the cost of both of your reactions to me isn't worth that much extra - its a good synergy but now you can't cast shield on yourself or boost your own AC with this feat. That makes that synergy a bit of a trap in many cases... I'd have said 20 points myself, maybe 25 as by late game when the PB gets larger it will have a greater effect.
Edit: Yeah looking at the points you gave Defensive Duellist that isn't limited to PB times a day I think you missed the mark there - the rare occasion you can stack and will actually need to stack Protective wings and a Shield spell is so slight its not worth much of a boost to its point haul, so for most of the time its just defensive duellist but you might be able to apply it to an ally PB times a day... So scoring it more inline with Defensive Duelist I'd say its only worth 10 points for the AC boost - as PB times a day is a serious limit vs unlimited and it perhaps should be even lower still as if you have DD you will use it way way way more times than your PB a day, probably more like 4-5x your PB in each encounter... But gets a few points back for the ribbon feature of maybe being close enough to an ally to help them and that it works against ranged attack - more like a 15 maybe an 18 points haul seems reasonable - ranged attacks are just not common enough, and being within 5' of an ally at the end of your turn is generally a bad idea as you have made AOE effects easier to get multiple targets...
At high levels the bonus increases to shield levels
@@AllHailSp00nRiver As it does with Defensive duellist a feat that scored 37 for unlimited uses per day of a very similar mechanic. Other than this working on any attack and maybe being able to help an ally you are standing right next to it really isn't better, and you only get to use it PB times a day. SO even at 20th level you will likely burn up all the uses of it in one, maybe two fights.
At higher levels your proficiency bonus is higher too.
It's probably around the same level as Defensive Duelist feature overall.
Fewer uses, but the added flexibility of being able to protect your ally instead of yourself, and doesn't require you to be holding a finesse weapon.
Notably Protective Wings sounds more useful on a spellcaster that already knows the shield spell, cause they don't want to hold a finesse weapon, and will probably just cast shield when they get hit themselves, but could use Protective Wings when an ally gets hit.
Yeah...Treantmonk gave 37 points to the Defensive Duelist feature and 30 points to Protective Wings feature. Seems...reasonable?
@@KaitlynBurnellMath
As the Finesse weapon is effectively a prerequisite anyway so by Chris' rules shouldn't count against DD in points haul... And really isn't much restriction anyway. Functionally makes no difference to your damage output unless you wanted to fight with two handed weapons. I'm not saying the metallic feat is useless by any stretch, that wings feature is nice, but its not nearly that nice.
It is in effect a massively nerfed version of DD as you get so few uses even by the highest character level with a ribbion feature or two added that will probably never actually get used. But will feel awesome if you actually remember it on the rare occasion it could happen, especially one of those big moment...
Still a good feat, as that Cure wounds on your choice of spell casting modifier is really quite good in its own right - one more spell you can prep instead if your class gets it anyway, and it gives classes that would normally have no healing a solid heal. The wings is also at least a PB per day ability you will likely use up usefully and reliably most days which isn't true of all of them. But a tiny number of uses and minor possibility of a synergy to further protect your ally who cast shield isn't worth much, as its not going to come up that much if ever- the range you can protect allies with is just too limited. Plus if protecting your allies was the goal getting the Protection fighting style is just going to be better at it, and again only costs a reaction, and requires you hold a shield which just boosts you AC all the time...
Abbarant dragonmark S tier if you are able to roll for the epic boon?
Ok but what was the point? Feats don't exist in a vacuum they are used for building specific characters. Warcaster is amazing but pointless for a Barbarian. Knight of the Sword might be relatively unappealing for most melee builds but is amazing to have for a Polearm wielding Conquest Paladin. Speaking of polearms, what about specific interactions between feats like PAM and Warcaster? Then there are more niche combos that still elevate relative usefulness of a feat like Arcane Trickster Rogue picking up Telekinetic feat to have a subtle cast 120ft invisible mage hand that can be used to steal enemy caster's material component pouch?
I think with Planar Wanderer it's a bit unfair to judge it outside the context of a planescape game. The RAW is that it would only be possible to get in a planescape campaign. Other DMs may allow it but I think 95% of the time it gets used would be in a game with portals coming up pretty regularly.
You know, I thought to myself "It would be funny to take the top 5 feats for *the most mathematically optimized build* and then try to make whatever silly mess of feats work." I forgot this is 5th edition, and the top 3 feats are basically flagship ranger. Understandable, have a good day.
Much like Strike of the Giants, Scion of the Outer Planes and Strixhaven Initiate seem to be proofs of concept for the level 1 background feats being introduced in the 2024 PHB. As such, they all would probably rank much higher if they were compared to those other background feats in a vacuum, as opposed to being compared to feats that are designed to be taken at higher levels.
I'm playing Dragonlance and that Squire of Solamnia feat seems really good for a 1st level feat - I'm still getting significant use out of it at 10th level, giving myself Adv, slight increased chance of crits and an extra damage die worked in. My DM always tracks how many times I use it (and so do I), so it seems significant.
Cartomancer is such.a murky feat, significant parts of it are unclear. 1. Do you need the level in the class to be able to access the hidden ace spell?; 2. Do you use get an extra spell slot for that spell? [it never says that you are casting the spell, only "imbuing" it]; 3. Do you need VSM components when you cast the hidden ace spell? ["flourish the card and cast the spell *within*" , if it's already stored within it sounds like you're not casting it at this point];
I would play it as Yes, No, No* [* material components and others (-as well as the spell slot) are applied when imbuing the card], I'd like to assume that was the hurried/careless designer's published intent anyway.
The feat is a mess in every way except the card trick stuff which is fun. Hidden Ace was DOA when you realize that the designers never once considered multiclassing, since it just says "your class" as if everyone is single-classed.
@@Mrryn The "your class" could also mean your current level in the given class, so you can't go 17 levels cleric and 1 level wizard and get access to Meteor Swarm and Power Word Kill (and all the other ones).
@@williamgordon5443 Could be, but could also be the class that you're leveling in when you gain the ASI/feat option. The fact that it's just as viable a reason is the problem.
I don’t think it’s fair to score feats as if you are not playing in the setting they were designed for. Your assumption should be that you are playing in that campaign and score accordingly, or at least give two scores one with the intended campaign setting and one without.
I disagree, the vast majority of games are either homebrew or the tried & true books like Strahd, Yawning, Avernus. And thus these feats are mostly used outside their designated setting.
For example, how many people have played a chronurgist vs actually playing Wildemount, or taken Silvery Barbs despite never touching Candlekeep. So Treant’s system is far more relevant
Planar Wanderer isn't even useful in the published Planescape campaign, there are no hidden or locked portals unless the DM adds them.
Cartomancer is insane.
It is a free highest available Spell Slot (without the possibility to upcast, but still)
The must-have for any spellcaster if it is allowed on your campaign (I hate all "must-have" feats, but it is irrelevant here)
After the 17th level, this is equal to Epic Boon
The benefit of Revenant Blade above using a basic scimitar is that it becomes the only weapon in the game that allows a Rogue/Barb character to benefit from sneak attack, rage, and great weapon master. Super fun build with a ton of flavour to it
DBS is not a heavy weapon, therefore GWM doesn’t work here unfortunately.
I played a wood elf Revenant Blade Ancestral Guardian/Swashbuckler in a One-Shot before though (called him the Ragebuckler). Still tons of fun, even without great weapon master. I had Boots of speed so 90 feet base movement, 180 ft with dash in every combat. Then run in, hit something recklessly, give it disadvantage to attack anything else but myself, then run out of reach into cover so I wouldn’t be an available target. 😂
@@BenMeadows013 that'll learn me from going on memory 😆 Got my wires crossed with BG3 for the feat
I really think background feats should have had that feature put into consideration despite it going against your prerequisite philosophy. Getting them for free at 1st level i believe is a big boon.
Or at the very least make those 4th level feats that require them (Scion of the Planes, Strike of the Giants, etc.) the exception to the "no prereqs" rule. Considering you cannot take them until 4th level (so no V. Human or Custom Lineage abuse) and cannot take them without these F tier feats.
So those A and S tier feats he rated would average out to around B or C tier. His comment about the Scion feat ("should've been a half feat") just sums it up that he either didn't read or just didn't care, which isn't a good look either way. Especially when the books themselves outline Skilled and Tough as substitute feats to be given for free with every other background - two other low tier feats.
(And yes, I'm including Tough in that low tier because I stand by Chris massively overrating Tough imo)
@@Mrryn yeah, definitely not chris' best tierlist imo. Usually i jive with a good amount of what he says and enjoy his math; but i disagreed with the majority of this series almost from the start just due to the rules he set up. I don't believe this is a good tierlist for anyone to actually use as a guide for play.
Still love his content though and my dislike of this series does not reflect on my views of him as a creator.
I didn't realize Cartomancer worked like that. That's wild.
The designer didn’t either😂
Cartomancer just has a lot of rules that should have been clarified.
On whether cartomancer works the way Treantmonk described...maybe it does, but then again, maybe it doesn't. It has the same wording as learning spells in Eldritch Knight or preparing spells in Cleric.
Cartomancer: "The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots."
Eldritch Knight: "spell of your choice from the wizard spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots"
Cleric: "choosing from the cleric spell list. [...] The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots."
This is relevant, because the designers have clarified that a Cleric 16 Eldritch Knight 4 can't prepare 9th level Cleric spells or 9th level Wizard spells. So a DM could reasonably make a ruling that Cartomancer works the same way as class features.
(The counterargument is mostly "maybe cartomancer is different cause it's a feat and not a class feature", and yeah, maybe, but that's a check with your DM kind of thing).
I've also seen people argue about whether it consumes a spell slot--the overall consensus is yes, cause giving people two 9th level spells per day would make it the most broken feat ever printed. But ok that's fine so it consumes a spell slot. But people don't agree on WHEN it consumes the spell slot (does it consume it when you infuse the spell into the deck, or does it consume the spell slot when you use the card to cast the spell)?
And then I've also seen people argue that flourishing the card would have no verbal components, essentially giving the hidden ace a subtle spell metamagic. But I've heard other people argue, no, when you flourish the card you cast the spell, so it would have verbal components.
Just a feat that needs a lot of rules clarification.
@@KaitlynBurnellMath I'd argue that it pretty clearly doesn't consume a spell slot when you imbue the card, but all your other questions are valid and important to answer. My reading is definitely that the slot and all components (verbal, material, and/or somatic) are required to use the card to cast the spell at the time of casting. The feature just makes it bonus action speed and gives a temporary extra preparation.
No one does. Now matter how many questions people have asked about it, they answer none of them.
@@KaitlynBurnellMath "I've also seen people argue about whether it consumes a spell slot--the overall consensus is yes, cause giving people two 9th level spells per day would make it the most broken feat ever printed."
It's obvious that it does not consume slots. You do not even need "it's RAW" argument. The wording is clear. If it did, the wording would be something like "you cast a spell and imbue it in a card", or "you use a spell slot to imbue a card".
Yes, it is obviously and stupidly broken, and I wonder how they could miss this
But the rest of your questions are still valid.
I think it is worth noting that RAW does not prevent you from casting any spells you gain from feats using spell slots (even if the feat doesn't say you can) as long as you are a known spellcaster. Known casters can always cast any spell they know. Poor prepared casters are limited to only using the feat option to cast. I think this is overlooked and way too often assumed to be a hard limit on those early-published feats when it's not.
Technically, all spellcasters say that you use your spell slots on a specific class. Like sorcerer use their spell slots on sorcerer spells and eldritch knights using wizard spells. So there is an argument that you can't use your spell slots on spells learned from feats sense they don't count as a class spell.
The only feat that does work for sure is Magic Initiative, and even then, the long answer given in Sage Advice makes it look like you have to have a matching class and magic initiative for it to work. It says that a sorcerer with the sorcerer magic initiative can cast the sorcerer spells learned.
Will you be doing a comparison between this list and one dnd feats when they come out?
Will be some summary what you learn from this ranking similar in videos Ranking the subclasses - The Final Summary or Racial Option Tier Ranks Dnd5e: Final Video?
A video on Thursday?! It's not even my birthday!
I was surprised Cartomancer didn't get S tier for being able to give a Wizard the ability to cast any Cleric spell by using Miracle as its Ace with a level dip. I never realized they took that spell out of the game! Always learning! (Though I feel a bit like I've Mandela Effected into a new universe and my old one definitely had Miracle as a spell in 5e😂)
Cheers Chris! Thanks for this series and your hard work putting videos together for us! 💜
At the end of all things, all tiers got a similar number of feats, with the most in the midle.
Cartomancer is the one feat I outright ban. Not because of being too strong but because I don't know how the hell it works.
i took gift of the chromatic dragon on my barbarian because the reaction ability isn't a spell. so yes absorb elements on barbarian
I thought for a moment it would make sense to penalize feats that require another feat as a prerequisite, but the more I think about it, it isn't necessary.
Just add up the feats that have a prerequisite and divide by that number, and that tells you how good the feats actually are on average.
I don't know about the rating for Gift of the Gem Dragon. It gives you a reaction for spell casters. I know Counter Spell, Shield blah blah blah. Unless you are a cleric (or some such) suited up in Heavy Armor or a Blade Singer with crazy AC you will get hit even if you have Shield. This lets you push a melee attacker away from you so no opportunity attacks to GTFO. The BIGGEST part of the feat is that there is no riders as to the size of the attacker.
And before anyone says blah blah strength save. Nothing is 100% guaranteed to work.
The 10' push reaction being useful by itself requires the enemy to not have enough movement to walk back to you [or being killed by the 2d8 dmg], which is a pretty big *if* in most scenarios, in additional to failing the strength save. Of course external circumstances like aoe's, terrain and allies can improve it, but that is harder to control and you probably will only have 2-4 chances to attempt it per long rest
For your next ranking list could you rank multiclass build's for example fighter+warlock warlock+sorcerer and so on
To avoid ranking everything it would be good idea to not include multiclass that are weaker than the base class
After you do this it would be nice to compere it to the subclass tier list you made in the past
So an ASI (Ability Score Increase) is 50 points, bottom of A Tier. That makes a good benchmark - is the feat better than taking ASI? Of course, your concept probably trumps pure 'value', but again, it makes for a good benchmark.
I've used Aberrant Dragonmark on a tempest cleric in a oneshot. Coupled it with Crusher for some melee action, very Thor-like, even Spirit Guardians were reflavoured as a static field. And I have to say, on this particular build this feat felt awesome!
Build-defining cantrip (Booming Blade), build-defining spell (Shield) AND get your con to 16 all at once? Get out of town!
(Our DM interprets that "you learn the spell" means you can cast in with your spellslots, newer feats are simply clarifying this.)
Again, I'd love to see how you would buff the lower tier feats. Ability score boosts would help some of them, but many of them need a lot more.
the sorcerer I'm currently playing got the greater aberrant power part of aberrant dragonmark and I haven't yet gotten any benefits from having it, though to be fair I only got it recently
Regarding Gift of the Chromatic Dragon, sure these can be reproduced by spells but they can be reproduced by spells. Since the feat has no spells involved they cannot be counterspelled and work with Barbarian’s Rage. Perhaps the extra damage could scale, but it’s hardly a bad feat at all
Yeah, I was surprised at this feat’s ranking. It did an incredible amount of work in my last campaign when our fighter took it.
It "feels" like there should be some kind of bonus for the ones you can get for free. Like the infamous Strixhaven Intiate... It's not really fair to have on on the same scoring system if it's free.
Probably should have also have a bonus/ penalty to the 4th level feats that had a prerequisite feat for if it was good or terrible.
So let’s say you missed a feature of a feat that lets you have the same benefits that warcaster gives with using somatic components while wielding a shield, should that feature get a bump of 15 points just like you gave that ability of warcaster?
I think I'd give Telekinetic Reprisal from Gift of the Gem Dragon a bit more points - that 10' of shove could easily save your PC from further harm as so many things, especially the nastier monsters with powerful multiattacks are not getting to use them - they won't have enough movement to get back in range. A no size restriction forced movement is pretty rare, and damage even on a success is nice too.
So many uses. Enemy next to a cliff? Bam. Enemy trying to escape a spell effect? Bam. Need to disengage on your next turn? Bam.
yeah gem dragon getting 10 for dmg plus shove and metallic getting 30 for +PB to AC is hilarious
Why do S and F have a huge range of scores and A through D have small ones?
The teleportation feature of Strixhaven Mascot works best with the Inkling familiar. Being a flying ooze, it can get into all sorts of places.
Woomy! 😁
Out of the entire list, the Draconic Gifts are the ones I disagree most with:
I think you've overrated Gift of the Metallic Dragon's Protective Wings a bit - assuming you're only using it when it will make the attack miss, you are only negating a PB amount of attacks, it's only one attack at a time and consumes your Reaction, 30 points seems a bit high, wouldn't give it more than 25 personally; Cure Wounds always prepared and one free cast is decent, sure.
On the other hand, I think you underrated the other two! Gem's Telekinetic Reprisal only slightly: it is also a Reaction, but you take it on damage. Many monsters have multi-attacks, and this can prevent them from attacking you more than once by pushing them out of reach (assuming they had already used most of their movement to walk up to you) and allow you to retreat safely without using Disengage, plus it has a decent damage rider. I don't think its amazing, but I would have bumped it from 13 to 15.
Finally the Gift of the Chromatic Dragon's Chromatic Infusion is a Bonus Action that lasts 1 minute, single use/long rest. It's only for one combat, but you'll save it for the tough one and it should last for the whole thing. Great buff for the Martials, and even if you aren't one, you can target an ally's weapon. 1d4 isn't amazing, but it's concentration-free and will stack with other buffs. Most Hasted lvl 5 Martials can have three chances per turn to deliver it for a potential 3d4 plus any reaction attack per round. You also pick the damage type, so the rider of being able to avoid resistances or immunities; Reactive Resistance is similar to Absorb Elements like you mention, which is a good spell, and this is basically having it prepared for free, it's not only a "single use without a Spell Slot", but a PB number, can't be Counterspelled (niche, but worth maybe 1 extra point? I've had that happen to me!) and has no Spell Components at all. I would have bumped the 15 to 18-20 (again: concentrationless buff, can pick damage type) and the 18 to 23-25 ("Absorb Elements" PB times/long rest, no components, can't be countered).
Let me know if I missed anything! I'm aware you were probably already accounting for most of (if not all) the things I've listed, but as I was watching, these particular scorings caught be by surprise. Great video as always!
I think there is a huge flaw in your ranking system... it doesn't account for prerequisites. A feat is not as good if not everyone can get it. Anyone can get Lucky, that makes it powerful, and it can be had at level 1 with the right background, or the new level 1 feat for everyone rules, or as a variant human. Meanwhile, some feats require you to be a specific race or from a small list of specific races -25 points for group, -50 for singular. Some feats require a specific ability score, -5 points per point of ability score over 10, so a 13+ requirement is a -15, a 18+ requirement is a -40. Some feats require you be a specific level to take them, -5 points per level over 1. And some feats require you to have another feat to take them, -25 points per other feat required. Campaign Specific is a Ribbon Flaw, easily bypassed by having a fair and decent DM, so -5 just for representing that (It is effectively -infinity if it isn't available because the DM doesn't allow it due to campaign specifics, so it is either a minor inconvenience to reflavor it for the campaign, or it isn't available anyway, so -5 just helps show that minor issue).
Agent of Order is great, until you realize that you had to have Scion of the Outer Planes and be 4th level or higher to get it, which means you can't be doing that at the start of the game, You gave it a 53 (25+28), an A tier, but it should be a 18 (25+28-15-25), an F Tier... the Feat loses its value when you need at least four, if not eight or more levels to get it AND had to take an F tier (by your own rating system) Feat first to get it.
Please redo this multi video list properly, taking into account ALL Factors (Granted by a Background for Free, in addition to a possible one from racial or other means should also ADD to its value... Lucky, Skilled, Tough, Especially 'Strixhaven' Initiate, all are better because there is a way to get them freely during character generation... I'd give that a +20 value, free is worth more than costing you)... maybe consider other factors... Limitless use (Sharpshooter, can be used on every shot) is better than proficiency bonus use (Strike of the Giants grows, but is two uses early game, and only 6 uses late game), or set # of uses (Lucky has 3 Uses), or single use per long rest... also, some feats have sub feats (Strixhaven Initiate, Strike of the Giants) and some options may be better than others (Quandrix Initiate vs Lorehound Initiate... Stone Strike vs Cloud Strike) and those can actually factor into the value, but you overlooked them.
I've been theory crafting a build utilizing Adept of the Black Robes life Channel ability, casting moonbeam, call lightning, maybe minute meteors etc. Then, wild shape, use the beasts hit die. Moon druid 5, tempest cleric 2 for shenanigans.
Would you consider this an exploit or straight up cheese? My DM is working with me to balance it by keeping track of beasts hit dice, and really accounting for beasts seen/ available options.
I felt your system had two major issues - major undervaluation of anything non-combat (almost everything you ranked 5-9 as a ribbon should be boosted by 5 points - a cantrip option is not a ribbon ever whether it is a feature for an origin, feat, or class/subclass) and the half-feats are overvalued anytime the feat's features didn't even bust 15 points. With only 8 points beyond the ASI, weapon master is automatically the worst feat since a second ASI in only stat (20) would be better by an overwhelming margin.
Love your stuff! If you do more tier lists, on the red, purple, and blue squares you should try using white text instead of black. It's far more legible and more accessible! Friendly advice from a designer!
Oh wow, if you use Aberrant Dragonmark correctly it is that potent? Well, I'm looking to pick it up on my Barbarian for flavor reasons so for me it's more like half an ASI... But good to know I took a theoretically strong feat and will just use it wrong. :D
I think the tricky thing about the feats in books like Bigby's, Strixhaven, Planescape, etc. are the prerequisites. In a lot of cases, you'd need to take a mediocre or bad feat in order to qualify for the real bangers.
So, about a third of all feats ever published are effectively as good or better than an ASI. WotC really padded their list to make it seem like there's a lot of flexibility and options, when in actuality, there is much less. It kind of sucks, as feats should have been an easy mechanism to inject variety and personal style into your PCs.
I think it was a little unfair to rate the feats that had a prerequisite of Planescape Campaign as if you weren't playing Planescape, when in other cases where a feat is only good for a specific type of character, you rated it from the perspective of that specific type of character. Even if that type of character is very specific like with Revenant Blade.
I understand not taking the prerequisites into account, but I feel like you should at least take the prerequisites into account in the sense anyone who takes the feat definitely already has the prerequisites. (Yes, some DMs will ignore that, and that's a house rule. I could house rule away the prereq on Dragon Fear, and if I did that it would be very bad to take it as a non-Dragonborn, but that's not the version in the book that's getting reviewed.)
Hard disagree on revenant blade, the part that gives the weapon finesse is niche but extremely powerful for rogues. Hear me out on this one, the finesse on double bladed scimitar allows rogues to take great weapon fighting. Now hear me out even further great weapon fighting by RAW great weapon fighting applies to all the damage die added to the attack IE sneak attack.
I understand crawford's old ruling but frankly the ruling is one of his earliest and weakest rulings. His reasoning for what he claimed was the rules as intended was that it would take too long to reroll all those dice every turn which is objectively wrong in practice, when playing a rogue both rolled sneak attack dice and booming blad dice greaybweapon fighting never added more than 10 seconds to a turn, practically nothing compared to casting most spells in the game. Aside from that numberous erratas were released after this ruling and none of those choose to fix the wording of great weapon fighting.
I think you should give this feat and fighting style another chance. 10 points instead of 5
Shouldn't Strixhaven initiate be ranked higher, because you get the expanded spell list that comes with the background?
Overall great job, I really don't agree with many of the scores you have given, though think your take overall and basic methodology has some value - you have collated all the feats from all over into one resource while also providing some hint if its worth actually looking the feat up. That is actually really useful.
Also it is nice to see another take on the value of certain features and surmise what it means for how others play the game. In your case I'd say you almost never if ever play the game at less than 10th level and don't generally play in games where tactical movement to make use of map features is that important, and clearly never go dungeon delving or play games where languages matter much...
Baleful Scion should work with Inflict Wounds as a better Vampiric Touch.
I think you underrated Gift of the Chromatic Dragon. It has proven really useful for my barbarian character.
I really hope the new PHB fixes the "for 8h" spells... it should just be until the next long rest, right? Right?
Once again another amazing series from TM. This and the species video have been very valuable to my character creation. Would love to see these same takes after one D&D comes out.
Only 23 points for Scion of the Outer Planes??? It's an "extra" background feat. Chaotic grants resistance to Poison for any character build, the most common damage type NOT included in the Absorb Elements spell + Minor Illusion, one of the best utility cantrips! Besides disintegrate, new monster design makes Force resistance awesome + Guidance, the most useful cantrip period. Psychic resistance for Int save spells & Bearbarians get resistance to ALL damage. Necrotic is the best resistance (according to Pack Tactics) and is difficult to get! Lots of damage halved fighting Shadow Dragons or Alhoons.
For those feats where you can't use a spell slot, what would be the numerical increase if you decided they could actually be used again with an appropriate level spell slot? 10 pts? less?
This was the feat tier ranking I didn't think I needed, yet I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm interested to see how the 2024 edition feats rank compared to this one.
This comment is to appease the Algorithm gods. Excellent series, very well done!
RE: Cohort of Chaos, Unbound Chaotic Flare
Does anyone know how this resolves timing wise? If you proc it, does it occur before the effect that you were rolling for or after? Also, does it give you an additional amount of teleportation range equal to your walking speed, or do you need movement speed left over?
It seems like it gives you a 20'-35' teleport after the roll but before resolution, but I am looking for solid answers.
Example: A Fireball connects with a player at the edge of its AoE template. The player rolls a 1 on the DEX save. The player elects to teleport to a square outside the AoE template. What happens?
The player can't use the teleport until they use their movement, which will be on their next turn, or they use some reaction-move feature. Regardless, the triggering saving throw is happening immediately and is concurrent with the damage rolled for it, the save just decides which amount you take. So you can't teleport away here
Abberent Dragonmark is crazy on a max level pure barbarian if you want to have an absolutely busted spell and cantrip.
I like the idea of handing out a magic item that gives out 3 random F tier feats.
Feats values are really difficult to pin down.
While a feat like Crossbow Expert is invaluable to a fighter or rogue, trying to do damage, it can be useless to a god-wizard.
Sure, there are a few that are just good regardless of character build, like Resilient. But most are very dependent on character build.
Take, for example, Gift of the Chromatic Dragon. To most builds, it's irrelevant. But to a tank Barbarian who's not a Bear Totem, it's very powerful since it gives elemental resistance that isn't a spell.
CE is not useless for wizard (it removes disadvantage on ranged attacks when opponents are next to you)
But here feats are evaluated mostly for builds where they are most useful
must hav missed it: what point value do you award to feats that come free from backgrounds? between dragonlance,spelljammer,just every"new"campaign book, they seem to be worth something...
He didn't consider that. He's assuming everything is in a vacuum.
i like your feat rankings, but it is a shame to see that several recent feats got such low rankings, despite being a) prerequisite to some S & A tier feats, & more importantly, b) background feats. planescape, bigby’s & dragonlance all have feats that are the feat for those campaign-specific backgrounds. i agree, they all would have been great as half-feats, but considering you get them for free with the background, instead of taking them in place of an ASI, i feel like there should have been some weight given to that. being able to slap planar scion onto a level 1 character is a pretty good boost, in my opinion.
I agree, but as Crawford has said in interviews, the feats can be taken at later levels by anyone who didn't take the background, so Chris is grading on that.
Oh my grod, I can't be the only one who thinks Cartomancer is basically an extra 9th level slot, right? Druid dipping into sorcerer for "Wish"
General consensus is that you still need to use spell slots when you use the Hidden Ace feature of cartomancer.
(Although people disagree about WHEN you use the spell slot. Do you use it when you infuse the ace? When you flourish the ace? People disagree).
In fact, people disagree about pretty much every aspect of Cartomancer; it badly needs rules clarification.
A lot of the new feats that come with a background seem to be meant more for compatibility with the new PHB. So no half feats and not very powerful because they're level 1, by design
Yes, I think you're right
So with Cartomancer, of a player wanted to use it, would you prefer them taking the official version where any spell can be added just as long as you’ve got the spell slots, or the UA version where instead of any spell level you have slots for, instead you get hidden ace limited to proficiency bonus for the cards spell level but it has no time limits so if you’ve got downtime you could theoretically make a bunch of hidden aces and carry with you?
Missing from the playlist btw
Hey, when did Treant get a new logo?! =)
Skilled is the most surprising to me. I do think it's worth considering the value of a skill proficiency.
Can it really be considered a ribbon? It has no limit on how often it can benefit you, it scales with your character permanently, and it is always ready so you don't need to worry about using the feature prior to the check.
I completely agree. He looked at all the other feats for best case scenario and gave them ridiculous numbers, but Skilled, which can give you three fantastic skills that are used 90% of the game were just considered a ribbon because you might not choose the best skills. It's not consistent.
I think the main issue with skilled is that there are much, much better feats now.
Prodigy was considered quite a bit better than Skilled when that feat first came out. And that was a race-restricted feat that gave you one skill proficiency and one expertise. Expertise being quite a bit more valuable than just skill proficiency cause you can't just get expertise from your background or your race.
And then later in Tasha's, Prodigy got massively powercrept by Skill Expert, which took prodigy, removed the racial restriction, and made it a half-feat.
You could make a case for bumping all the skill related feats up a bit--I could see putting Skill Expert in A tier (Treantmonk has it in B tier). But I think A tier is more-or-less the ceiling for Skill Expert. The S-tier half feats are like Fey Touched, Telekinetic, Crusher, Resillient--I don't think Skill Expert belongs in S.
But...yeah, wherever Skill Expert is, Prodigy is going to be 25 points lower than that, cause it's not a half-feat, and Skilled should be lower than Prodigy.
I think that one of the problems with Skilled, is that you're getting at least 4 skills from your background and class, so do you need 3 more. While Skill Expert and Prodigy will give you expertise in a skill.
Good attempt at the imposable. Due to combinations with other feats/abilities/skills/class the good feats are really hard to rank.
Nice job TM, thank you. I’ll refer my players to it. 👍
Seeing how they've gotten better at balancing over the years is kind of encouraging for One D&D
I wonder how this list would change if we looked at Jeremy’s new 1st level feats that we’ll see with the Revised 5e PHB this year. I think some, like tough, become A tier if you compare it to other 1st level feats. Similarly, the new lightly armored feat we saw in playtest 1 I think is S tier again if we are talking 1st level feat and now access to medium armor and shields as a wizard at level 1.
I hope you continue this series in the near future with the new PHB!
Since you can still pick 1st-level feats later on, I find it relevant to assess all feats on the same scale.
That said, I'm looking forward to a video considering the curated list of feats that will be available at 1st level once the 2024 PHB is out.
@@SortKaffe if you do that, then it won’t help you figure out which fest to pick at level 1 since they’re all d tier…
@@SortKaffe Agreed. What I'd personally love to see is one combined list of all feats, lvl 1 and otherwise, but a distinct marking such as a different colour or border for lvl 1 feats to make it easier to compare them to each other while also seeing which of them are still a viable option to pick up at higher levels.
jeremys gonna get a fucking shrapnel to the dome
Thursday? interesting
outlands envoy was given too many points I think. Tongues is not worth much.
It gets you tongues, misty step and a +1 (any)
The feat fetish is finally over!!!
One thing that I can see doing with this, is granting new characters a bonus D or F ranked Feat at character creation :P
A little something to customize more, but not anything that's ever worth spending a *real* Feat on...
Funny because that's what books like Bigby's, Strixhaven, and Spelljammer do with their D and F tier feats like Strixhaven Initiate, Strike of the Giants, and Scion of the Planes - they are literally given for free as part of the specific background introduced in the same book. And the books outline giving every character that takes any other background one of two feats for free instead: either Skilled or Tough. Which is kinda crazy considering how highly Chris rated Tough but I also think Chris massively overrated Tough as well to put it mid to high B tier.
Also a few of the B, A, and S tier feats Chris rated from those books are also gated to being level 4 minimum and needing those same D and F tier feats in order to take them, meaning the feats actually average as a package to around the B to C range.
@@Mrrynyeah, I haven't read those books, but those feats really did seem like they were intended to be free background feats.
6e is also going to have free level one feats, but they had things like Lucky in there 🤪
I also think it's interesting how Lightly Armored and Heavily Armored are rated so lowly, but Shield Proficiency pops Moderately Armored so high.
(incidentally, I also rate Tough relatively high, about equal with an ASI, as it's double half the benefit of increasing your Con score)