Something that needed to be mentioned, is that some these feats are available free from a background. Like Rune Shaper, scion of the outer planes or strike of the giants.
Indeed. WotC have designed said minor feats such that they're suitable as a free 1st-level feat while major feats (e.g., those that include an Ability Score Increase) will not be available untill 4th level come the 2024 PHB. These two books provide a sneak-peak of said design philosophy. They will be compatible with the 2024 rules and should be assessed in that light.
I think a more important aspect of this is that these background feats are frequently prerequisite for another feat. I know Chris decided not to address prereqs, but when an A tier feat has a prereq of an F tier feat, their value is interdependent. When the F tier feat is acquired via a background, it would seem to have greater value since it costs less.
@@SortKaffeThis is lowkey one of my favorite things about the 2024PHB adjustments. It's a small thing, but seeing feats like Tough or Skilled that you really hate to trade an ASI for becoming things that a player can just have from the jump is nice, and helps the backgrounds feel more meaningful mechanically.
Yeah, I think it's a great opportunity for Treamont to redo this series at the end of the year. A few of the S-tier feats from the PHB are hopefully going to change, also, to become less out of line.
Saying that a background feat should be a half feat is because he is ignoring prerequisites, as a new design philosophy, 4th level feats will be around 50 points, 1st level feats will be around 28 points, On average an invocation should be worth a 1st level feat, so, a feat that gives you an invocation should very clearly be a 1st level feat Edit, at the start of the video he said that he was ignoring prerequisites, which makes sense because he is comparing them to PHB feats, which almost have zero prerequisites You cannot compare tough to the fire giant feat, but we should use this ranking to show what kind of feats should have what prerequisites, the higher on the tier list, the more prerequisites make sense to add
Hey Chris, I really like your rankings but the chart itself is really hard to read. I'm struggling to even tell which books the feats are coming from. I'd like to recommend some graphics and more distinct colors.
I do think you gave Rune Shaper a score in poor faith. I think there's a huge difference between learning 1 new language as you stated, worth 5 pts, and learning comprehend languages, which is learn ANY LANGUAGE YOU NEED. Just my 2 cents, though.
It also means we can see less drastic save or suck. The average is getting pulled to be the same without such large extremes (nothing to sometimes outright ending an encounter)
And that was... another of the design choices of 4th edition that was tossed away at the start of 5th edition with everything else, to be reintroduced nowadays as an innovation.
I do think Strike of the Giants and Squire of Solamnia will need to be heavily reevaluated with the 2024 rules because they’re essentially 1st-level feats, so they’ll be up against Lucky, Tough, and Magic Initiate (and some worse options) and not really meant to compare with 4th-level feats
The prerequisite of F-tier feat "Strike of the Giants" should be taken into account if you plan a build around any of the "X of the Y Giant" feats. I support that you don't let prerequisites muddy your rankings, but it has to be mentioned as a potential deal breaker. Even though Strike of the Giants is only intended as a free 1st-level feat, you have to pay the opportunity cost of not picking one of the other 1st-level feats once the 2024 PHB is out. Judging from the UA playtests, it will contain much better alternatives (though they're all minor feats without an Ability Score Increase).
I agree. A feat being the second part of a chain is a serious investment (and demerit if it is lousy) when compared to having a much less onerous prerequisite like being a specific race or having a minimum ability score. Even if TM says a feat is excellent, having that premium feat gated behind a dud feat is bad news. You just don't get that many feats to choose from at most tables.
I assume this will be corrected in a future version of this series, where 1st level feats are judged against eachother. And then similarly for 4th level feats
Ibelieve the usefulness for us, is that we can treat these numbers as "raw power", then make build decisions based on whether the different choices we have to make to make it work. For example, the cost/value of Strike of Giants skyrockets when we can get it as part of our background, making the other giant feats readily availble. But we have to contend with its weakness, if it is a feat tax for Ember. As a DM, I give out these feats at level 1 if it fits the character (or something else, if something else fits better). It typically competes with Tough, Magic Initiate and Rune Carver, rather than with a full ASI or S-tier feat.
Worth noting, strike of the giants does get quite a bit better if you are playing at a table with a low number of combats per day. It's pretty bad if you are playing a Treantmonk adventuring day with 8 combats per day, but if you are playing one combat per day and adding 1d10 basically every turn, that's pretty solid.
The Knight of the Crown rally with the wording of sneak attack seems like such a great synergy I'd suggest it should get a points bump for that alone... In the right party its pretty darn amazing to get sneak attack twice a round.
Right? Imagine that with an Order Cleric dip; you can give your Rogues reaction attacks twice a round, and potentially a third if Silvery Barbs is an option.
The Evil choice for Divinely Favored is basically "You learn Armor of Agathys". A rather nice pickup for Evil Swords Bards, Bladesinger Wizards, Paladins (though you can also get it through Oath of Conquest), etc. Also, the feats that come attached to backgrounds in their books (like Squire of Solamnia, Strike of the Giants, and Initiate of High Sorcery) is basically the proof of concept for level 1 feats in the new PHB. It might be a good idea to go back and reevaluate those feats in isolation alongside the new PHB level 1 feats, since they wouldn't have the same balance points as the feats intended for later levels.
@@moonlight2870 not particularly since holy symbols includes crests which can be placed on shields meaning you can get the AC bonus of a shield and use it as a material component for every non costly material in the game while also able to do somatic components with it because you can use the same hand that holds the material component to do the somatic components.
@@AtelierGod and what's stopping you from holding a shield in one hand and a focus in the other? Edit: with warcaster I mean. I wouldn't get this feat over warcaster.
I would rate Adept of the Red Robes Higher. Especially at high levels with 4+ uses, great on initiative, contested ability checks, burst damage rounds for attacks. I am not sure where the points should be but i think I would have it higher than the black robes feature.
Agree with your general comment. There is a lock down dispeller/counterspeller Abjurer build I have found quite effective using Red Robes at higher levels; this build totally nerfed a boss fight by dispelling a gate (with no chance of failure) in the first round. I understand that TM's evaluations are not build specific, but I find that while objectively Black Robes has better spells and a more universally applicable damage feature, I actually use Red Robes more often myself.
Wooow I didn't even think of using it on initiative. If you have some other flat initiative boost like from Gloomstalker or just a high Dex then that will put in a lot of work.
Feats Gained from a Background: Alert, Initiate of High Sorcery, Lucky, Magic Initiate, Rune Shaper, Scion of the Outer Planes, Skilled, Squire of Solamnia, Strike of the Giants, Strixhaven Initiate, and Tough These 11 Feats need a reevaluation since they are much easier to gain than all the other feats in the game.
22 points for Cloudy Escape seems low. It's practically casting a better version of absorb elements AND misty step (both premium spells) simultaneously as a reaction, without any magic or spell slots, proficiency bonus times per long rest. A reaction teleport also lets you bait dangerous enemies into using a melee Multiattack only to land a single hit and lose the rest of their action. That's gotta be worth at least 30 points. It's also attached to arguably one of the more useful Strikes, as it provides a big offensive and defensive boost if it lands, and it targets Wisdom.
For future tier list series like this one thing I would hope to add for readability/clarity/reminder text is to put in brackets/parentheses beneath each letter tier icon the range of points each tier covers, often in this series I forget where the boundaries are and confuse myself.
the Rune Shaper feat might be better, depending on two sentences. The one starting with "While you are wearing or carrying any rune-marked object," and the one starting "You can also invoke a rune inscribed on an object you are wearing or carrying". Nether say that the rune has to be inscribed by you. Glory of the Giants has magic items that have runes on them (are they rune-marked?) and a couple haves the runes "inscribed" on them, so can you use the Rune Shaper feat and these items to get more features from the feat? I don't know, I don't see anything RAW stopping you (you have a rune-marked object with a rune inscribed). And the Rune Knight has 6 runes (that are also on the Rune Shapers rune list) that you can learn, and their rune list has entries that say "*_Cloud Rune._* This rune emulates the deceptive magic used by some cloud giants. While wearing or carrying an object inscribed with this rune," and doesn't say that the rune has to be inscribed by you. If you pick up the Rune Shaper as a 1st level feat (with the background) and become a 3rd level Rune Knight, can you double up on effects from both features for each inscribed rune? Can you gain a feature from Nimbus Coronet that has an inscribed Cloud Rune? I don't know, I don't see anything RAW stopping you. Both features have weapons and armor listed as possible objects.
I feel like this part of the ranking is where your rule about not taking into account the prerequisites makes the whole thing a bit skewed or rather "inaccurate". I mean those are some relevant prerequisites, beyond the level ones.
I think getting a 2nd level spell should be worth much more than getting a 1st level spell. For example, Red robes allows you to pick up spike growth on any spellcaster, without needing to take 3 levels in a spike growth-knowing class, This is much better than feats that grant 1st level spells because all that is needed for 1st level spells is a 1 level dip, which is already effective for many classes and barely puts spell progression behind. Unrelated, you could get spike growth on a hexblade warlock, and the hex procs on every step the target takes through the spikes…
I do think background feats should get some bonus points, as you can get them through a background you are not giving up an ASI if you do to take them, you are giving up the roleplay features from regular backgrounds which if you counted on this list would like all just be considered ribbons and placed at the bottom, so they are improvements and if you do pick one your fellow players gets either skilled or tough feat as befits their character through the bonus feat rules present in at least Bigby’s.
Feels like they should give everyone a +1 ASI every 4 levels, and then a choice between another +1 or a feat (which no longer give +1). Then rebalance the feats around all of them being a tradeoff for a +1.
this really shows the problem with unbalanced feats! you said there's over 100, but off the top of my head, i'd probably only ever be able to recall (and therefore only be able to consider taking) the feats in S, A, or B tier, not because i'm a "power-gamer", but because MOST FEATS SUCK BY COMPARISON TO A SELECT FEW.
Oh really? Cause I can see several uses for many feats that are in the C tier or below. Actor for one is incredible in the social Pilar of the game with its advantages and mimicry. Observant is commonly taken for the buff to the exploration pillar of the game thanks to its +5 bonus and being a half feat. Spell sniper has niche uses where you want a long range sniping ability especially if your DM is the kind to have enemies runaway having a massive reach could allow you to end them. Artificer initiate has synergy with wizard artificer multiclasses to give you the ability to bonus damage features to spells from both classes. Chef has good synergy with bards allowing you to stack song of rest and the chef feats healing to give your party members a lot of HP back on short rests for as few hit dice as possible. The reason for why some feats in this tier lists are in the C tier or below is because it only takes into account the combat pillar of the game like it’s a video game with skip story on.
i think a few points should be taken off feats that require other feats before you can take them as it'll either take up your background or first feat choice making it a more costly sink than just "you need 13+ stat".. however i do also think feats that can be gotten for free with a background should be given a couple extra points as free feats are always nice
I think you missed one good point of Divinely Favored. The ability to use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for the selected spellcasting ability. This allows more freedom with shield + focus + free hand at tables, that are strict with the spellcasting rules. Could give that feature another 5 points...
I kinda feel like the prerequisites should be included in the ranking, especially when you are required to take another feat first, especially if that feat isn't so good
I do think Strike of the Giants and Squire of Solamnia will need to be heavily reevaluated with the 2024 rules because they’re essentially 1st-level feats, so they’ll be up against Lucky, Tough, and Magic Initiate (and some worse options) and not really meant to compare with 4th-level feats
You said you're not looking at prerequisites, but some of the giant feats have quite steep combinations of prerequisites. Strike of the Giants requires Martial Weapon proficiency, and then it is a prerequisite for Keenness of the Stone Giant, which uses your spellcasting ability modifier. So you're going to need a high STR and spellcasting ability for this feat to be useful.
Rather than create a point penalty for a prerequisite that might be a high cost or might be gained for free with a background depending on your table, I think it's more accurate to let my viewers determine the cost of the prereq themselves.
Keenness of the stone giant is a spell attack but it specifies it uses the ability score you increased with your ASI so if you raised strength or con your spell casting ability is strength or con.
So this is a bit weird while we are waiting for the transition to 2024 rules (and feats being divided between those you can take at level 1, or only at level 4 or later), but if part of a feat granting +1 to your choice of any ability score is worth 25 points, the pure Ability Score improvement (feat/option) should be worth 50 points... It might be a legacy of how they had feats as an optional rule in the 2014 rules, but "Ability Score Improvement" does seem like it is a feat in all but name.
With the feats video wrapping up, I’d like to revisit the race ranking haha. In those you gave the free feat feature of v humans and custom lineage 110 points, while you gave features like flight 100 points (yes race points, it’s a completely different ranking than this video, I understand that). The top S tier feats are for ranged weapon characters specifically. For those we can agree a feat jumpstart may be worth it, but for the others? Do you still believe a choice of Lucky, GWM, Alert, resilient or war caster is worth more than flight? Worth more than blessing of the Raven queen?
I might be missing something but Adept of the Red Robes seemingly gives many casters the ability to use any spell scroll in their class up to level four spells right when it is available. S+ my opinion.
While I haven’t liked the 1dX+effect on a hit at prof/LR, it’s somewhat equivalent to a first level smites for martials. You don’t have the versatility of fey touched, but there’s a few of them that give you some options and you get more uses.
I actually think you rated the Cloud teleport too low. Having access to a reaction misty step that also gives you resistance to the attack that triggers it is insanely powerful, especially on otherwise immobile melee classes like Paladin, Fighter, and Hexblade Warlock
The last thing 5e v2 needs are feat trees and feats with feat prerequisites. I’m hoping that WotC’s design team remembers the lessons from 3.5 and knocks this off.
I don't object to it if kept relatively low cost, or permissive. Like the cases where the prerequisite feat is also available as part of your background (so in effect negligible cost at level 1 as everyone needs a background, with the only downside being if you want another background more). Sure you may 'waste' a feat on the prerequisite because you want the later feat but also wanted a different background, but that is then player choice and player choice is a good thing - I'm happy to take a weaker option for next few levels if it builds towards the fun I want to happen later. And ideally the feats with prerequisites should often have a suitable OR clause on the requirements to take it - so must have 16 in whichever stat(s) are more applicable for instance 16 Constitution OR the prerequisite feat, must have a level 2 spell slot OR other prerequisite.
What’s painful for the various giant feats is that you need to take strike of the giants multiple times if you want multiple of the subsequent feats. It’s unfortunate, and even in testing, getting all of the feats isn’t possible even if you allow the background feats, not without allowing for something like if you take Strike once, you get all options, or the DM is similarly generous and gives a lot of free feats.
I have a question that would help me understand the ranking system a little deeper: If you could power balance every feat What tier(s) would they be in?
I think Knight of the Crown almost varies in value based off of what the rest of the party is playing. If you've got a good damage rogue in the party, letting them get a reaction sneak attack every turn is devastating.
a wizard cantrip is very good on bard and druid (and to a lesser extent cleric) because at least in my experience those have a rough time with range and damage of cantrip options.
I'm not sure you totally captured in your point values how often some of these features can be used: all the time, every time a certain skill check or saving throw is called for, once per attack, once per turn, every bonus action, every reaction, proficiency bonus times per long rest, once per short rest, three times per long rest, once per long rest, once per long rest plus using spell slots. I think there are lesser abilities that through sheer use could end up more effective overall than some where you can only use them a few times per day. Lucky and Fey Touched are good feats, but they're ranked among a lot of nearly unlimited use feats. By the same token, there are always-on feats towards the bottom that through AC bumps or slight damage improvements round after round, combat after combat, day after day, session after session, might be more effective overall than a flashy but limited feat like Lucky, for example.
Very true, though in equal measure ignoring the prerequisites creates some similar situations of over value. A limitation of the methods and value of the result I agree. But for something like this it is always going to be rather more his gut feeling to assign points values than anything else. With a clear example being Dungeon Delver - in the right sort of campaign it is easily a S rated feat, in many games it should be B tier probably useful often enough to rank much higher than it does for him, but not so continually for a super high ranking. But clearly his perception of the game, which is going to be built on the tables he sits at it doesn't come up. Same with Linguist, a great feat in many games as casting a spell comes with downsides just knowing the language does not in some game settings. So as always really these 'optimal' lists are not even pirate code level guidlines, do whatever you want that works for you.
I think that Rune Shaper and Strike of the Giants are feats designed to be 1st level feats on the 5e revision, I know that does not make them better feats to use right now but I think they are very solid feats as level 1 feats.
at 17:00 your joy at the flavor of the Feat should give it bonus points! A rule of cool? - if the flavor of the feat is good enough to bump a Feat from one Tier to another, give it to them. All it really does is make "worst of the best" as opposed to "best of the worst" but the letter upgrade is nice.
I think a separate video where background feats are looked at separately may be of value. In particular how they should rank based on what they open up for you. That said if you peruse what has been offered so far. We have 2 S Feats (Lucky, Alert both in Book of Many Things) 2 B Feat (Tough pretty much all sources, and Init of High Sorcery DL) 2 D Feats (Squire of Solamnia DL, and Magic Initiate many sources) 3 F Feats (Rune Shaper and Strike of the Giants, and Skilled many sources) Most of these background feats hit that D/F level and I think that is what they are trying to design in. The most common trio available are magic initate, tough and skilled.
I think you are underrating the 'ribbion' feature of the Squire of Solamnia - the usual costs to mount are a very significant in movement cost terms, and that is quite limiting if you are building around expecting to be mounted. Any time you are not already on your mount when combat starts you will waste a turn or more just getting to the mount to have enough movement left to mount, you can't freely dismount to take advantage the terrarin, or leave you more combat capable mount holding one choke point while you can reach the other. Its certainly not a super powerful feature, entirely pointless if you don't intend to be mounted, but the freedom it gives you when you do intend to do mounted combat I'd say has to be worth more like 10 points...
@@CJWproductions As you don't take a feat you don't plan to use... He's not rating any of the other feats for how many builds may want them either, or many S tiers would suddenly become trash as they are of so little use if any at all for most classes...
With point values for not only every feat, but for their subcomponents, if anyone is crazy enough they could make a website that lets you select features piecemeal by their point values instead of as bundled feats. If you moved to giving out these subpoints instead of just a feat, it would go most of the way of balancing the options, as all those "should have been a half feat" options now effectively would be. And anything thats S-Tier would naturally require additional points to acquire, perhaps more than you get at a specific level up, so you could usually get some of what it offers at level 4 but may have to wait for more spending points at level 8 to fully unlock it. And yes, "This is more trouble than its worth" is a very valid and sane take.
As someone playing a rune knight, it the giant feats are so much better if your DM lets you have Strike of the Giants as a free feat Just thinking about having to take it at level 4 judt to take a better feat at level 8, all the while ignoring ASIs you need, feels so bad.
Yeah that's how it was designed to be taken, as part of the Giant Foundling background, part of the new design direction we'll see in the upcoming 2024 PHB
@@collinw9792 Ah yeah-- all my games are still using old 5e rules. Once we all have standardised lvl 1 free feats it won't be as bad (although worse than other alternatives still)
Ember of Giants: Now, I haven't considered D&D in well over a year, but does not Searing Ignition (last part of the feat) fairly reliably allow you to blind an opponent before your reminding attacks and thus have advantage on your remaining attacks (and your party members as well)? I am terrible at rating, but this seems worth more than +1 attribute to me.
I asked you this for your lineage tier list, but for this tier list, do you have "patch" recommendations for the D and F tier feats (and maybe minor buffs to C tier?) For a lot of lower-ranked feats, based on your system, giving them an ability score increase boosts a lot of them, but not enough for many of them, especially those that already give the ability score boost.
I like the framework you provide with this sort of video. It helps us think about things. Still hoping you do monster CR and magic item value. Also the strike of giants is a pretequisite for other feats. I know you generally don't consider prerequisites but they normally aren't this onerous. Also hill giants iron stomach seems like more than a ribbon. Getting +4/5 hp per short rest in tier 1 and +6hp in tier 2 seems like more than a ribbon. Maybe it's because i play sorcerer's a lot so my con is high but my hp is low.
Depending on how the party plays there might just be even 1 short rest in a encountering day, based on how ten dialogues went during the first revision of the warlock Chris certainly seems to fall into that category where a short rest never happens.
I think that Knight of Solamnia would be the ideal background for that Double Phantom Rogue build that you have showcased a while back, as it comes with the Squire feat for free.
I know we aren't looking at prerequisites, and the feats with prerequisite feats are especially hard to grade. But if you aren't using the backgrounds that give you the prerequisite feat, it's especially hurtful. If I'm not a variant human, or using the right background, I just don't imagine actually taking the ribbon feature that is squire of solamnia to get one of the others, and having to Wait till at least level 8.
Be me, theory-crafting a build with 2 F tier feats Abjuration wizard with Eldritch Adept: Shadow Armor, and Rune Shaper: Armor of Agathys. Scales linearly pretty good on every level, already good at level 2, and stupidly broken at high levels. At 15 you could drop an 8th level into AoA and have 40 temp hp dealing 40 damage on hit, with a 35 hp ward on top.
The Adept of the Black Robes feature really hates games with Slow Natural Healing rules, where the only natural healimg comes from hit dice, and not automaticly with a long rest. Ranking the Strixhaven feats should be complex, given its a setting where its basicly that says "screw non-full casters."
Am I understanding your scoring rubrik correctly, when I assume you would count a normal ASI (actually taking the two +1s instead of a feat) would be the equivalent of a feat scoring 52pts (26 for each +1, 20 for the bump and 6 for the option to choose any of your six ability scores)?
I'm using rune shaper right now, but luckily my DM buffed it to 'runes equal to proficiency bonus' instead of half. It scales way too slowly as written.
- Divinely Favored: You haven't considered the last point of the feat (the ability of using an holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for ANY spell you cast with the chosen casting ability). This is not just flavor, nor pointless because holy symbols have the unique rule of being able to be part of a shield, in most cases this trait is an equivalent to to the second bullet point of War Caster.
Strike of The Giants doesn't hit as hard as squire, but its not got any usage limit in a day .... Edit: Never mind, missed that very bottom line of Strike as there is so much to read, which really does ruin the feat.... Unlimited use would be good enough.
random question: when you expend hitdice in general, and inparticular with the Black Robe Adept feat, do you add your con modifier? To every roll, only once, or not at all?
I might give the Stone Giant a couple more points because its a rare CON based attack (possibly) with the only other that im aware of being the dhamphir's bite.
Question: Keenness of the Stone Giant allows you to make a spell attack with Strength of Con (if you boosted that ability score with the feat). Can anyone think of a creative way to take advantage of that? My initial thought was reckless attack, since it uses strength, but RA is only melee attacks
These videos have shown me that weapon mastery will be super clunky once you combine it with feats or many feats are just obsolete. Imagine a battlemaster fighter using disarming attack with weapon mastery and then another feat that allows him to enforce a condition once per round. Suddenly you have 4 or even 5 saving throws that need to be rolled by the target.
I feel like something worth mentioning is that based on the score taking the default ASI is worth 52 right? as a stat boost is worth 20+1 point per stat choice right? that would make asi a low A tier option,
Hey, Chris, what do you think about doing a video talking about the comments on this series? There's a lot of interisting takes, and it would be interesting hear your opinion about them.
rune shaper is particularly nice for tempest clerics, as it grants them exclusive access to wisdom-based Chromatic Orb, which ive found is fantastic when paired with their channel divinity for most levels of the games
It also gives abjuration amd bladesinging wizards access to armor of agathys and life clerics access to goodberry. Its absurd how many good combos you can do with this background feat that previously needed multiclassing to do. It's f ranking is a crime.
@@guardiantree8879 That's what my current pc is. A giant barb/moon druid. Activate armor of agathys, rage, turn into a giant animal, and have fun haha.
Seems like a lot of feats are getting carried into higher tiers due to being half feats (especially those with multiple different stats offered). I wonder how things would change in the upcoming PHB 2024 now that most lvl 4+ feats come with an ASI. Or how things would change if you homebrewed some of the weaker feats to be half feats.
Technically, Rune Shaper doesn't scale by RAW? It says you gain a certain number of spells, but never states you add more as your proficiency bonus increases. I'd say any sane DM would read it the way you did, but just wanted to point that out.
no it says that you know a number of runes = half your proficiency bonus round down, each rune has a first level spell associated with it so yes it does scale cos you proficiency bonus does increase. so say you get this feat at LV4 so you have a +2 PB, half that = 1 so you know 1 rune and so by extension 1 1st LV spell. Then when you gain LV9 you have a +4 PB, half that = 2 so you now 2 runes and by extension 1 1st LV spell for each rune, and so on and so on.
@@studentofsmith but what if you hold your action to attack on another turn, like with frenzy, which does allow 2 sneak attacks, unlike polearm master and crossbow expert which require the attack action be taken in the same turn.
A little surprised you rated bullet point 2 on Adept of the Black robes quite so high - even if you have other methods of healing they tend to cost resources more useful in battle than your Hit Die and you don't have many hit die at all until very late levels of the game. So sure you can expend a heap of hit die to make a spell more deadly on a single target, which might save you or your party from taking hits. But you can only do it a handful of times at the full power you can muster before you are out of die (or potentially spell slots for a suitable spell) at the early levels. Now at the higher character levels when you are more likely casting a relatively lower level damage spell that can't use up all your hit die so quickly and have a much bigger pool of spell slots and more spell options the feature could be applied to. So it becomes more useful into the later game, but the vast majority of player levels...
The faster you kill a key enemy, the less damage you take. Being able to burst a high threat enemy on round one eliminates all of the damage he'd potentially do in the rest of the fight. In any bbeg fight, this turns a deadly encounter into a cakewalk.
@@ChristnThms I said pretty much that, but being able to only do it a really tiny number of times for not that much extra damage in the earlier levels is not that great. Then made worse as it is the cost of your very limited self healing. So it costs your party more resources to heal you later. You might take out one guy but not many fights are going to be entirely done in the first round without you taking harm in response even though you have dumped some extra damage on a single target. But now you don't have any short rest healing...
I think that is a very over-generous read, I’d have a really hard time convincing my DM to interpret it that way. There is a funny interaction where if you are prone and then you’re subjected to forced movement you can just use your reaction to bounce up unmoved, but that’s about the limit of funny business there imo.
Completely disagree with your Strike of the Giants/Giant feats analysis because Strike of the Giants is a prerequisite for the other Giant feats. Your scoring doesn't make sense to say "This is an S" if you have to take a "F" tier feat first.
Something that needed to be mentioned, is that some these feats are available free from a background. Like Rune Shaper, scion of the outer planes or strike of the giants.
Indeed. WotC have designed said minor feats such that they're suitable as a free 1st-level feat while major feats (e.g., those that include an Ability Score Increase) will not be available untill 4th level come the 2024 PHB.
These two books provide a sneak-peak of said design philosophy. They will be compatible with the 2024 rules and should be assessed in that light.
I think a more important aspect of this is that these background feats are frequently prerequisite for another feat. I know Chris decided not to address prereqs, but when an A tier feat has a prereq of an F tier feat, their value is interdependent. When the F tier feat is acquired via a background, it would seem to have greater value since it costs less.
@@SortKaffeThis is lowkey one of my favorite things about the 2024PHB adjustments. It's a small thing, but seeing feats like Tough or Skilled that you really hate to trade an ASI for becoming things that a player can just have from the jump is nice, and helps the backgrounds feel more meaningful mechanically.
Yeah, I think it's a great opportunity for Treamont to redo this series at the end of the year.
A few of the S-tier feats from the PHB are hopefully going to change, also, to become less out of line.
Saying that a background feat should be a half feat is because he is ignoring prerequisites, as a new design philosophy, 4th level feats will be around 50 points, 1st level feats will be around 28 points,
On average an invocation should be worth a 1st level feat, so, a feat that gives you an invocation should very clearly be a 1st level feat
Edit, at the start of the video he said that he was ignoring prerequisites, which makes sense because he is comparing them to PHB feats, which almost have zero prerequisites
You cannot compare tough to the fire giant feat, but we should use this ranking to show what kind of feats should have what prerequisites, the higher on the tier list, the more prerequisites make sense to add
Readability was bad at the start (colors and font), but now these black murky letters on a red background are just an eyesight test.
Yeah, is this 480p? It's not great.
Red on black or vice versa for text is one thing you definitely do not want to do when designing anything
I’m confused as to why we didn’t just do not overly bright primary colors between each book
Yes. The colour choices are challenging.
"White text with a black outline can be read on any color."
Mans old enough to have seen that meme.
Hey Chris, I really like your rankings but the chart itself is really hard to read. I'm struggling to even tell which books the feats are coming from.
I'd like to recommend some graphics and more distinct colors.
I do think you gave Rune Shaper a score in poor faith.
I think there's a huge difference between learning 1 new language as you stated, worth 5 pts, and learning comprehend languages, which is learn ANY LANGUAGE YOU NEED. Just my 2 cents, though.
I greatly agree about the Knight of the Rose "something bad happens whether they succeed or fail their save" design space. I want to see more of that!
Every spell in pathfinder 2e does this type of thing it's great and the primary reason I prefer the system over dnd
@@j_the_guyis_taken3409 I hope we see more of it in the new PHB!
It also means we can see less drastic save or suck. The average is getting pulled to be the same without such large extremes (nothing to sometimes outright ending an encounter)
And that was... another of the design choices of 4th edition that was tossed away at the start of 5th edition with everything else, to be reintroduced nowadays as an innovation.
I do think Strike of the Giants and Squire of Solamnia will need to be heavily reevaluated with the 2024 rules because they’re essentially 1st-level feats, so they’ll be up against Lucky, Tough, and Magic Initiate (and some worse options) and not really meant to compare with 4th-level feats
The prerequisite of F-tier feat "Strike of the Giants" should be taken into account if you plan a build around any of the "X of the Y Giant" feats. I support that you don't let prerequisites muddy your rankings, but it has to be mentioned as a potential deal breaker.
Even though Strike of the Giants is only intended as a free 1st-level feat, you have to pay the opportunity cost of not picking one of the other 1st-level feats once the 2024 PHB is out. Judging from the UA playtests, it will contain much better alternatives (though they're all minor feats without an Ability Score Increase).
I agree. A feat being the second part of a chain is a serious investment (and demerit if it is lousy) when compared to having a much less onerous prerequisite like being a specific race or having a minimum ability score. Even if TM says a feat is excellent, having that premium feat gated behind a dud feat is bad news. You just don't get that many feats to choose from at most tables.
I assume this will be corrected in a future version of this series, where 1st level feats are judged against eachother. And then similarly for 4th level feats
@engilaru yes, I'm hoping for an updated assessment after the 2024 PHB is out in September
Ibelieve the usefulness for us, is that we can treat these numbers as "raw power", then make build decisions based on whether the different choices we have to make to make it work.
For example, the cost/value of Strike of Giants skyrockets when we can get it as part of our background, making the other giant feats readily availble. But we have to contend with its weakness, if it is a feat tax for Ember.
As a DM, I give out these feats at level 1 if it fits the character (or something else, if something else fits better). It typically competes with Tough, Magic Initiate and Rune Carver, rather than with a full ASI or S-tier feat.
Worth noting, strike of the giants does get quite a bit better if you are playing at a table with a low number of combats per day. It's pretty bad if you are playing a Treantmonk adventuring day with 8 combats per day, but if you are playing one combat per day and adding 1d10 basically every turn, that's pretty solid.
The Knight of the Crown rally with the wording of sneak attack seems like such a great synergy I'd suggest it should get a points bump for that alone... In the right party its pretty darn amazing to get sneak attack twice a round.
Right? Imagine that with an Order Cleric dip; you can give your Rogues reaction attacks twice a round, and potentially a third if Silvery Barbs is an option.
The Evil choice for Divinely Favored is basically "You learn Armor of Agathys". A rather nice pickup for Evil Swords Bards, Bladesinger Wizards, Paladins (though you can also get it through Oath of Conquest), etc.
Also, the feats that come attached to backgrounds in their books (like Squire of Solamnia, Strike of the Giants, and Initiate of High Sorcery) is basically the proof of concept for level 1 feats in the new PHB. It might be a good idea to go back and reevaluate those feats in isolation alongside the new PHB level 1 feats, since they wouldn't have the same balance points as the feats intended for later levels.
You missed last feature in divinely favorite, that you can use holy symbol for all your spells aka use shield as a focus.
And that's a ribbon
@@moonlight2870this ribbon is 1/3 of warcaster and worth 15 points.
Yeah I was surprised by that as well.
@@moonlight2870 not particularly since holy symbols includes crests which can be placed on shields meaning you can get the AC bonus of a shield and use it as a material component for every non costly material in the game while also able to do somatic components with it because you can use the same hand that holds the material component to do the somatic components.
@@AtelierGod and what's stopping you from holding a shield in one hand and a focus in the other? Edit: with warcaster I mean. I wouldn't get this feat over warcaster.
I would rate Adept of the Red Robes Higher. Especially at high levels with 4+ uses, great on initiative, contested ability checks, burst damage rounds for attacks. I am not sure where the points should be but i think I would have it higher than the black robes feature.
Agree with your general comment.
There is a lock down dispeller/counterspeller Abjurer build I have found quite effective using Red Robes at higher levels; this build totally nerfed a boss fight by dispelling a gate (with no chance of failure) in the first round. I understand that TM's evaluations are not build specific, but I find that while objectively Black Robes has better spells and a more universally applicable damage feature, I actually use Red Robes more often myself.
Wooow I didn't even think of using it on initiative. If you have some other flat initiative boost like from Gloomstalker or just a high Dex then that will put in a lot of work.
Feats Gained from a Background:
Alert, Initiate of High Sorcery, Lucky, Magic Initiate, Rune Shaper, Scion of the Outer Planes, Skilled, Squire of Solamnia, Strike of the Giants, Strixhaven Initiate, and Tough
These 11 Feats need a reevaluation since they are much easier to gain than all the other feats in the game.
Which background gives alert?
22 points for Cloudy Escape seems low. It's practically casting a better version of absorb elements AND misty step (both premium spells) simultaneously as a reaction, without any magic or spell slots, proficiency bonus times per long rest. A reaction teleport also lets you bait dangerous enemies into using a melee Multiattack only to land a single hit and lose the rest of their action. That's gotta be worth at least 30 points. It's also attached to arguably one of the more useful Strikes, as it provides a big offensive and defensive boost if it lands, and it targets Wisdom.
For future tier list series like this one thing I would hope to add for readability/clarity/reminder text is to put in brackets/parentheses beneath each letter tier icon the range of points each tier covers, often in this series I forget where the boundaries are and confuse myself.
the Rune Shaper feat might be better, depending on two sentences. The one starting with "While you are wearing or carrying any rune-marked object," and the one starting "You can also invoke a rune inscribed on an object you are wearing or carrying". Nether say that the rune has to be inscribed by you.
Glory of the Giants has magic items that have runes on them (are they rune-marked?) and a couple haves the runes "inscribed" on them, so can you use the Rune Shaper feat and these items to get more features from the feat? I don't know, I don't see anything RAW stopping you (you have a rune-marked object with a rune inscribed).
And the Rune Knight has 6 runes (that are also on the Rune Shapers rune list) that you can learn, and their rune list has entries that say "*_Cloud Rune._* This rune emulates the deceptive magic used by some cloud giants. While wearing or carrying an object inscribed with this rune," and doesn't say that the rune has to be inscribed by you.
If you pick up the Rune Shaper as a 1st level feat (with the background) and become a 3rd level Rune Knight, can you double up on effects from both features for each inscribed rune? Can you gain a feature from Nimbus Coronet that has an inscribed Cloud Rune? I don't know, I don't see anything RAW stopping you.
Both features have weapons and armor listed as possible objects.
I feel like this part of the ranking is where your rule about not taking into account the prerequisites makes the whole thing a bit skewed or rather "inaccurate". I mean those are some relevant prerequisites, beyond the level ones.
I think getting a 2nd level spell should be worth much more than getting a 1st level spell. For example, Red robes allows you to pick up spike growth on any spellcaster, without needing to take 3 levels in a spike growth-knowing class, This is much better than feats that grant 1st level spells because all that is needed for 1st level spells is a 1 level dip, which is already effective for many classes and barely puts spell progression behind.
Unrelated, you could get spike growth on a hexblade warlock, and the hex procs on every step the target takes through the spikes…
I do think background feats should get some bonus points, as you can get them through a background you are not giving up an ASI if you do to take them, you are giving up the roleplay features from regular backgrounds which if you counted on this list would like all just be considered ribbons and placed at the bottom, so they are improvements and if you do pick one your fellow players gets either skilled or tough feat as befits their character through the bonus feat rules present in at least Bigby’s.
Feels like they should give everyone a +1 ASI every 4 levels, and then a choice between another +1 or a feat (which no longer give +1). Then rebalance the feats around all of them being a tradeoff for a +1.
"Or guidance, as it's otherwise known." lol, that got me, true though.
this really shows the problem with unbalanced feats! you said there's over 100, but off the top of my head, i'd probably only ever be able to recall (and therefore only be able to consider taking) the feats in S, A, or B tier, not because i'm a "power-gamer", but because MOST FEATS SUCK BY COMPARISON TO A SELECT FEW.
Oh really? Cause I can see several uses for many feats that are in the C tier or below.
Actor for one is incredible in the social Pilar of the game with its advantages and mimicry.
Observant is commonly taken for the buff to the exploration pillar of the game thanks to its +5 bonus and being a half feat.
Spell sniper has niche uses where you want a long range sniping ability especially if your DM is the kind to have enemies runaway having a massive reach could allow you to end them.
Artificer initiate has synergy with wizard artificer multiclasses to give you the ability to bonus damage features to spells from both classes.
Chef has good synergy with bards allowing you to stack song of rest and the chef feats healing to give your party members a lot of HP back on short rests for as few hit dice as possible.
The reason for why some feats in this tier lists are in the C tier or below is because it only takes into account the combat pillar of the game like it’s a video game with skip story on.
@@AtelierGod tl;dr + anime pfp
i think a few points should be taken off feats that require other feats before you can take them as it'll either take up your background or first feat choice making it a more costly sink than just "you need 13+ stat"..
however i do also think feats that can be gotten for free with a background should be given a couple extra points as free feats are always nice
I like this video (and every video, but hey, saying so helps Chris' YT algorithm)!
White robes; basically able to cast a ranged cure wounds as a reaction and that isn’t that good?
Strike of the Giants can't really be a half feat with the fact you can just get it for free with your background.
I think you missed one good point of Divinely Favored. The ability to use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for the selected spellcasting ability. This allows more freedom with shield + focus + free hand at tables, that are strict with the spellcasting rules. Could give that feature another 5 points...
I kinda feel like the prerequisites should be included in the ranking, especially when you are required to take another feat first, especially if that feat isn't so good
I do think Strike of the Giants and Squire of Solamnia will need to be heavily reevaluated with the 2024 rules because they’re essentially 1st-level feats, so they’ll be up against Lucky, Tough, and Magic Initiate (and some worse options) and not really meant to compare with 4th-level feats
You said you're not looking at prerequisites, but some of the giant feats have quite steep combinations of prerequisites.
Strike of the Giants requires Martial Weapon proficiency, and then it is a prerequisite for Keenness of the Stone Giant, which uses your spellcasting ability modifier.
So you're going to need a high STR and spellcasting ability for this feat to be useful.
Rather than create a point penalty for a prerequisite that might be a high cost or might be gained for free with a background depending on your table, I think it's more accurate to let my viewers determine the cost of the prereq themselves.
Keenness of the stone giant is a spell attack but it specifies it uses the ability score you increased with your ASI so if you raised strength or con your spell casting ability is strength or con.
@@AtelierGod What is something that makes it even better.
So this is a bit weird while we are waiting for the transition to 2024 rules (and feats being divided between those you can take at level 1, or only at level 4 or later), but if part of a feat granting +1 to your choice of any ability score is worth 25 points, the pure Ability Score improvement (feat/option) should be worth 50 points... It might be a legacy of how they had feats as an optional rule in the 2014 rules, but "Ability Score Improvement" does seem like it is a feat in all but name.
With the feats video wrapping up, I’d like to revisit the race ranking haha.
In those you gave the free feat feature of v humans and custom lineage 110 points, while you gave features like flight 100 points (yes race points, it’s a completely different ranking than this video, I understand that).
The top S tier feats are for ranged weapon characters specifically. For those we can agree a feat jumpstart may be worth it, but for the others? Do you still believe a choice of Lucky, GWM, Alert, resilient or war caster is worth more than flight? Worth more than blessing of the Raven queen?
I might be missing something but Adept of the Red Robes seemingly gives many casters the ability to use any spell scroll in their class up to level four spells right when it is available. S+ my opinion.
While I haven’t liked the 1dX+effect on a hit at prof/LR, it’s somewhat equivalent to a first level smites for martials. You don’t have the versatility of fey touched, but there’s a few of them that give you some options and you get more uses.
I actually think you rated the Cloud teleport too low. Having access to a reaction misty step that also gives you resistance to the attack that triggers it is insanely powerful, especially on otherwise immobile melee classes like Paladin, Fighter, and Hexblade Warlock
No "negative score" for requiring a very low scored feat as a pre-req?
The last thing 5e v2 needs are feat trees and feats with feat prerequisites. I’m hoping that WotC’s design team remembers the lessons from 3.5 and knocks this off.
I don't object to it if kept relatively low cost, or permissive. Like the cases where the prerequisite feat is also available as part of your background (so in effect negligible cost at level 1 as everyone needs a background, with the only downside being if you want another background more). Sure you may 'waste' a feat on the prerequisite because you want the later feat but also wanted a different background, but that is then player choice and player choice is a good thing - I'm happy to take a weaker option for next few levels if it builds towards the fun I want to happen later. And ideally the feats with prerequisites should often have a suitable OR clause on the requirements to take it - so must have 16 in whichever stat(s) are more applicable for instance 16 Constitution OR the prerequisite feat, must have a level 2 spell slot OR other prerequisite.
You should sneak in one fake feat
EDIT: It'll be like the fake locations cartographers would add in
What’s painful for the various giant feats is that you need to take strike of the giants multiple times if you want multiple of the subsequent feats. It’s unfortunate, and even in testing, getting all of the feats isn’t possible even if you allow the background feats, not without allowing for something like if you take Strike once, you get all options, or the DM is similarly generous and gives a lot of free feats.
I have a question that would help me understand the ranking system a little deeper: If you could power balance every feat What tier(s) would they be in?
I think Knight of the Crown almost varies in value based off of what the rest of the party is playing. If you've got a good damage rogue in the party, letting them get a reaction sneak attack every turn is devastating.
a wizard cantrip is very good on bard and druid (and to a lesser extent cleric) because at least in my experience those have a rough time with range and damage of cantrip options.
I'm not sure you totally captured in your point values how often some of these features can be used: all the time, every time a certain skill check or saving throw is called for, once per attack, once per turn, every bonus action, every reaction, proficiency bonus times per long rest, once per short rest, three times per long rest, once per long rest, once per long rest plus using spell slots. I think there are lesser abilities that through sheer use could end up more effective overall than some where you can only use them a few times per day. Lucky and Fey Touched are good feats, but they're ranked among a lot of nearly unlimited use feats. By the same token, there are always-on feats towards the bottom that through AC bumps or slight damage improvements round after round, combat after combat, day after day, session after session, might be more effective overall than a flashy but limited feat like Lucky, for example.
Very true, though in equal measure ignoring the prerequisites creates some similar situations of over value.
A limitation of the methods and value of the result I agree. But for something like this it is always going to be rather more his gut feeling to assign points values than anything else.
With a clear example being Dungeon Delver - in the right sort of campaign it is easily a S rated feat, in many games it should be B tier probably useful often enough to rank much higher than it does for him, but not so continually for a super high ranking.
But clearly his perception of the game, which is going to be built on the tables he sits at it doesn't come up. Same with Linguist, a great feat in many games as casting a spell comes with downsides just knowing the language does not in some game settings.
So as always really these 'optimal' lists are not even pirate code level guidlines, do whatever you want that works for you.
I think that Rune Shaper and Strike of the Giants are feats designed to be 1st level feats on the 5e revision, I know that does not make them better feats to use right now but I think they are very solid feats as level 1 feats.
Okay I like the chart but good lord these colors are kinda hideous to look at when trying to differentiate episode or source.
at 17:00 your joy at the flavor of the Feat should give it bonus points! A rule of cool? - if the flavor of the feat is good enough to bump a Feat from one Tier to another, give it to them. All it really does is make "worst of the best" as opposed to "best of the worst" but the letter upgrade is nice.
I think a separate video where background feats are looked at separately may be of value. In particular how they should rank based on what they open up for you. That said if you peruse what has been offered so far. We have
2 S Feats (Lucky, Alert both in Book of Many Things)
2 B Feat (Tough pretty much all sources, and Init of High Sorcery DL)
2 D Feats (Squire of Solamnia DL, and Magic Initiate many sources)
3 F Feats (Rune Shaper and Strike of the Giants, and Skilled many sources)
Most of these background feats hit that D/F level and I think that is what they are trying to design in. The most common trio available are magic initate, tough and skilled.
I don't value Lucky as much as he does. It doesn't make my damage higher or give me more spell options
I think you are underrating the 'ribbion' feature of the Squire of Solamnia - the usual costs to mount are a very significant in movement cost terms, and that is quite limiting if you are building around expecting to be mounted. Any time you are not already on your mount when combat starts you will waste a turn or more just getting to the mount to have enough movement left to mount, you can't freely dismount to take advantage the terrarin, or leave you more combat capable mount holding one choke point while you can reach the other. Its certainly not a super powerful feature, entirely pointless if you don't intend to be mounted, but the freedom it gives you when you do intend to do mounted combat I'd say has to be worth more like 10 points...
That "if" is doing the work of Atlas, here.
@@CJWproductions As you don't take a feat you don't plan to use... He's not rating any of the other feats for how many builds may want them either, or many S tiers would suddenly become trash as they are of so little use if any at all for most classes...
Devinely favord armor of agythis 8s crazy good
All the new backgrounds feats will probably be free at 1st level in the new player's handbook
With point values for not only every feat, but for their subcomponents, if anyone is crazy enough they could make a website that lets you select features piecemeal by their point values instead of as bundled feats. If you moved to giving out these subpoints instead of just a feat, it would go most of the way of balancing the options, as all those "should have been a half feat" options now effectively would be. And anything thats S-Tier would naturally require additional points to acquire, perhaps more than you get at a specific level up, so you could usually get some of what it offers at level 4 but may have to wait for more spending points at level 8 to fully unlock it.
And yes, "This is more trouble than its worth" is a very valid and sane take.
A lot less trouble if Chris has already done the points breakdown, though!
As someone playing a rune knight, it the giant feats are so much better if your DM lets you have Strike of the Giants as a free feat
Just thinking about having to take it at level 4 judt to take a better feat at level 8, all the while ignoring ASIs you need, feels so bad.
If anything, the fact this terrible feat is tied with Eldritch Adept shows just how undervalued the latter is, even solely from a combat POV
Yeah that's how it was designed to be taken, as part of the Giant Foundling background, part of the new design direction we'll see in the upcoming 2024 PHB
@@collinw9792 Ah yeah-- all my games are still using old 5e rules. Once we all have standardised lvl 1 free feats it won't be as bad (although worse than other alternatives still)
@@User-he6zd Eldritch Adept was absolutely done dirty.
Ember of Giants: Now, I haven't considered D&D in well over a year, but does not Searing Ignition (last part of the feat) fairly reliably allow you to blind an opponent before your reminding attacks and thus have advantage on your remaining attacks (and your party members as well)?
I am terrible at rating, but this seems worth more than +1 attribute to me.
I asked you this for your lineage tier list, but for this tier list, do you have "patch" recommendations for the D and F tier feats (and maybe minor buffs to C tier?)
For a lot of lower-ranked feats, based on your system, giving them an ability score increase boosts a lot of them, but not enough for many of them, especially those that already give the ability score boost.
I like the framework you provide with this sort of video.
It helps us think about things.
Still hoping you do monster CR and magic item value.
Also the strike of giants is a pretequisite for other feats. I know you generally don't consider prerequisites but they normally aren't this onerous. Also hill giants iron stomach seems like more than a ribbon. Getting +4/5 hp per short rest in tier 1 and +6hp in tier 2 seems like more than a ribbon. Maybe it's because i play sorcerer's a lot so my con is high but my hp is low.
Depending on how the party plays there might just be even 1 short rest in a encountering day, based on how ten dialogues went during the first revision of the warlock Chris certainly seems to fall into that category where a short rest never happens.
Man, I really want Trentmonk to cross that 100,000 subscriber barrier. Im here liking and commenting every video. Either way, love your content
Some of these feats come with severe prerequisites and I'm not sure why you chose not to factor that in in your ranking 🤔
I discuss why in the preview video.
Great analysis, Chris! What I think would be quite interesting would be to see what builds would make low-tier feats go up some levels.
How would you rank + 2 as just a stat boost?
I think that Knight of Solamnia would be the ideal background for that Double Phantom Rogue build that you have showcased a while back, as it comes with the Squire feat for free.
I know we aren't looking at prerequisites, and the feats with prerequisite feats are especially hard to grade. But if you aren't using the backgrounds that give you the prerequisite feat, it's especially hurtful. If I'm not a variant human, or using the right background, I just don't imagine actually taking the ribbon feature that is squire of solamnia to get one of the others, and having to Wait till at least level 8.
Be me, theory-crafting a build with 2 F tier feats
Abjuration wizard with Eldritch Adept: Shadow Armor, and Rune Shaper: Armor of Agathys.
Scales linearly pretty good on every level, already good at level 2, and stupidly broken at high levels. At 15 you could drop an 8th level into AoA and have 40 temp hp dealing 40 damage on hit, with a 35 hp ward on top.
The Adept of the Black Robes feature really hates games with Slow Natural Healing rules, where the only natural healimg comes from hit dice, and not automaticly with a long rest. Ranking the Strixhaven feats should be complex, given its a setting where its basicly that says "screw non-full casters."
Am I understanding your scoring rubrik correctly, when I assume you would count a normal ASI (actually taking the two +1s instead of a feat) would be the equivalent of a feat scoring 52pts (26 for each +1, 20 for the bump and 6 for the option to choose any of your six ability scores)?
Would love to see [your] recommendations for house rules to amend all the F and S tier feats so that they are more balanced.
I'm using rune shaper right now, but luckily my DM buffed it to 'runes equal to proficiency bonus' instead of half. It scales way too slowly as written.
- Divinely Favored: You haven't considered the last point of the feat (the ability of using an holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for ANY spell you cast with the chosen casting ability).
This is not just flavor, nor pointless because holy symbols have the unique rule of being able to be part of a shield, in most cases this trait is an equivalent to to the second bullet point of War Caster.
Strike of The Giants doesn't hit as hard as squire, but its not got any usage limit in a day .... Edit: Never mind, missed that very bottom line of Strike as there is so much to read, which really does ruin the feat.... Unlimited use would be good enough.
random question:
when you expend hitdice in general, and inparticular with the Black Robe Adept feat, do you add your con modifier? To every roll, only once, or not at all?
I might give the Stone Giant a couple more points because its a rare CON based attack (possibly) with the only other that im aware of being the dhamphir's bite.
Question: Keenness of the Stone Giant allows you to make a spell attack with Strength of Con (if you boosted that ability score with the feat). Can anyone think of a creative way to take advantage of that?
My initial thought was reckless attack, since it uses strength, but RA is only melee attacks
These videos have shown me that weapon mastery will be super clunky once you combine it with feats or many feats are just obsolete. Imagine a battlemaster fighter using disarming attack with weapon mastery and then another feat that allows him to enforce a condition once per round. Suddenly you have 4 or even 5 saving throws that need to be rolled by the target.
I feel like something worth mentioning is that based on the score taking the default ASI is worth 52 right? as a stat boost is worth 20+1 point per stat choice right? that would make asi a low A tier option,
Hey, Chris, what do you think about doing a video talking about the comments on this series? There's a lot of interisting takes, and it would be interesting hear your opinion about them.
Rune shaper and strike of the giants should be much better once the new PHB drops since they'll still be first level feats
13:15 (ish) top of toer 2 has a +4 proficiency bonus (it boosts to +4 at 9 and AL doesnt consoder t3 to start until level 11)
Chris, you have many strengths and skills. Graphic design is not one of them.
rune shaper is particularly nice for tempest clerics, as it grants them exclusive access to wisdom-based Chromatic Orb, which ive found is fantastic when paired with their channel divinity for most levels of the games
It also gives abjuration amd bladesinging wizards access to armor of agathys and life clerics access to goodberry. Its absurd how many good combos you can do with this background feat that previously needed multiclassing to do. It's f ranking is a crime.
Agreed, I was also thinking Moon Druid with armor of agathys to be an even more unkillable meat sack.
@@guardiantree8879 That's what my current pc is. A giant barb/moon druid. Activate armor of agathys, rage, turn into a giant animal, and have fun haha.
Seems like a lot of feats are getting carried into higher tiers due to being half feats (especially those with multiple different stats offered). I wonder how things would change in the upcoming PHB 2024 now that most lvl 4+ feats come with an ASI. Or how things would change if you homebrewed some of the weaker feats to be half feats.
you do get a second rune at 9th level for Rune Shaper, so its still mid tier 2
I really appreciate the effort that went into this!
Technically, Rune Shaper doesn't scale by RAW? It says you gain a certain number of spells, but never states you add more as your proficiency bonus increases. I'd say any sane DM would read it the way you did, but just wanted to point that out.
no it says that you know a number of runes = half your proficiency bonus round down, each rune has a first level spell associated with it so yes it does scale cos you proficiency bonus does increase.
so say you get this feat at LV4 so you have a +2 PB, half that = 1 so you know 1 rune and so by extension 1 1st LV spell.
Then when you gain LV9 you have a +4 PB, half that = 2 so you now 2 runes and by extension 1 1st LV spell for each rune, and so on and so on.
squire of solamnia is campaign-specific, strike of the giants is not. That comparison doesn't really make sense.
Does Keenness of the Stone Giant's Stone Throw allow Rogues a second Sneak Attack?
You can only sneak attack once per turn and the attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
@@studentofsmith but what if you hold your action to attack on another turn, like with frenzy, which does allow 2 sneak attacks, unlike polearm master and crossbow expert which require the attack action be taken in the same turn.
@@shapshane8241 That fixes the first problem but not the second. The attack must still use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
sneak attack requires using an attack with a finesse or a ranged weapon, a rock is neither
Is it just me or did Divinely Favoured get a phantom +9 points?
He didn't state explicitally, but it's obvious that the 9 points are for the cleric cantrip of your choice "also known as guidance".
A little surprised you rated bullet point 2 on Adept of the Black robes quite so high - even if you have other methods of healing they tend to cost resources more useful in battle than your Hit Die and you don't have many hit die at all until very late levels of the game. So sure you can expend a heap of hit die to make a spell more deadly on a single target, which might save you or your party from taking hits. But you can only do it a handful of times at the full power you can muster before you are out of die (or potentially spell slots for a suitable spell) at the early levels. Now at the higher character levels when you are more likely casting a relatively lower level damage spell that can't use up all your hit die so quickly and have a much bigger pool of spell slots and more spell options the feature could be applied to. So it becomes more useful into the later game, but the vast majority of player levels...
The faster you kill a key enemy, the less damage you take. Being able to burst a high threat enemy on round one eliminates all of the damage he'd potentially do in the rest of the fight.
In any bbeg fight, this turns a deadly encounter into a cakewalk.
@@ChristnThms I said pretty much that, but being able to only do it a really tiny number of times for not that much extra damage in the earlier levels is not that great.
Then made worse as it is the cost of your very limited self healing. So it costs your party more resources to heal you later. You might take out one guy but not many fights are going to be entirely done in the first round without you taking harm in response even though you have dumped some extra damage on a single target. But now you don't have any short rest healing...
Vigor of the Hill Giant's Bulwark can straight up ignore forced Banishment (& Maze) & forced Teleports as these are also types of movement.
I think that is a very over-generous read, I’d have a really hard time convincing my DM to interpret it that way. There is a funny interaction where if you are prone and then you’re subjected to forced movement you can just use your reaction to bounce up unmoved, but that’s about the limit of funny business there imo.
@@pederw4900 I used the example of Booming Blade vs Teleporting as a basis. Planar Travel & teleporting is also moving.
@@xiongray booming blade vs teleporting? Is there a sage advice or JC tweet about that? That is a compelling case if so
Teleporting I might accept, but Banishment doesn’t move you. It puts you on a different plane. When you return, you come back to the same spot.
@@johnmickey5017 If you didn't move, why did you return?
Completely disagree with your Strike of the Giants/Giant feats analysis because Strike of the Giants is a prerequisite for the other Giant feats. Your scoring doesn't make sense to say "This is an S" if you have to take a "F" tier feat first.
Your content feels like you're a creator who only rolls nat 20s.