TF2: How Matchmaking Destroys Team Balance

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  • Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 107

  • @GODber777
    @GODber777  Год назад +25

    You could say that i'm not the biggest fan of matchmaking.
    Also i didn't make these video chapters and have no idea how they got here. I guess they sort of fit though so whatever.

  • @ivanthehighman177
    @ivanthehighman177 Год назад +88

    I will never forgive myself for ditching this game during its golden era. I just didn't understand it till 2020 when I picked it up again.

    • @MaoRatto
      @MaoRatto Год назад +7

      Same. As I did play in 2015, but... I never got into until like now.

    • @Ben_diez
      @Ben_diez Год назад +5

      @@MaoRatto same but in 2014

    • @Felale
      @Felale 11 месяцев назад +7

      I had the time of my life 2011-2014. Then I stopped playing... Now I'm back.

    • @ivanthehighman177
      @ivanthehighman177 8 месяцев назад

      @@Felale how was it back then?

    • @punishedwhispers1218
      @punishedwhispers1218 2 месяца назад

      At least youre not missing out, you still run into the golden age people. You see little kids who just installed 5 minutes ago recreating meet the medic, you see braindead engies hiding in the 2fort room, you see people roleplaying as the classes in chat, you still see spycrabs, nope.avi, pootis men, and everything. Its actually crazy how little but how much has changed

  • @Lethal_Spoon
    @Lethal_Spoon Год назад +40

    some days, i play for 4 hours and my team steamrolls the enemy and there’s no room for fun combat
    other days, i play for 4 hours and my team gets steamrolled and there’s no room for fun combat

  • @Starlit_Juno
    @Starlit_Juno Год назад +37

    I don't hate matchmaking, I hate that matchmaking is broken.
    They aren't gonna bring back quickplay but at least fucking fix this.

    • @energeticyellow1637
      @energeticyellow1637 5 месяцев назад +13

      There is no fixing something that is fundamentally broken

  • @raptor3406
    @raptor3406 Год назад +49

    Most of the time i join a match, i lose instantly. Im always going to be sent to the losing team because players disconect from an unbalanced match, and i hate it. I'd rather play comp than get sent to the gulag.

  • @CoolSs
    @CoolSs Год назад +12

    A reminder. when they were doing the competitive beta. Valve never said anything about replacing Quick play with casual mode. i wonder if we would still have Quick play today if Valve did actually do a beta for Casual mode before releasing MYM. we could be living in the good timeline where Quick play got improved but without any SBMM.

  • @CoolSs
    @CoolSs Год назад +12

    19:07 Robin walker left around 2013. aka at the edge of the golden age of tf2. it's not a coincident why tf2 is in the gutter

    • @JeffarryLounder
      @JeffarryLounder 9 месяцев назад +8

      It seems like they kept his original vision for the game about 1 year after he departed. 2015 onwards for TF2 was just a complete dumpsterfire of updates.

  • @Gaelic-Spirit
    @Gaelic-Spirit Год назад +9

    I don't even play casual anymore, this is why I don't get any contracts done. How can I play the game when half of my team rage quits because of one pro player on the other team?

  • @CirqueAlvis
    @CirqueAlvis Год назад +8

    When the update released, I knew that I'd light a match on my meat whenever I play to feel how horrible the update is.

  • @ReshyShira
    @ReshyShira Год назад +17

    Autobalance itself isn't much of a solution, at best people go into spectator till the team balances out and they get back on the team they want or if you can't spectate or rejoin your initial team you just dodge the lobby which does nothing but depopulate a server. I get what they were going for with MYM in that they wanted to substitute the autobalance with the match making in new players but there's some problems with that: First off, it only works about half the time, other half of the time you'll be playing a 5v6 for consecutive rounds with nobody joining. Second, as you mention the loading counts as a player slot which can cause other issues like, for example, autobalancing a team with 4 players and 5 people loading onto a team with 6 players and 1 player loading making it into a 3v7 till people finish loading. Third, autobalance in it's current state is worse than it's quick-play iteration as you have no control over who gets autobalanced, you cannot spectate, and if the team you were originally one now has an imbalance you can't even reliably switch back to them. Fourth, the autobalance system seems to always prioritize players based on the order they loaded into a match, so it's entirely possible for the first guy who join the match to be autobalanced ***four god damn times*** in one match.

  • @incomplete628
    @incomplete628 Год назад +8

    I WANT QUICKPLAY

  • @CoolSs
    @CoolSs Год назад +9

    The competitive hype of the 2014 and its consequences on the casual game market. Chapter one: WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER WENT COMPETITIVE!!!!
    MYM killed tf2 and i refuse to believe otherwise. Valve giving up upon tf2 after the jungle inferno because they doubled down on Casual/Matchmaking mode. when majority of people hated Casual mode so much and the stupid rebalancing. tf2 just hit its lowest player numbers after jungle inferno. and Valve took that as cue to "unofficially" stop supporting the game. don't forget that the casual mode is why the bots are a problem. and Valve refuse to acknowledge their mistake and fix it. what i hate. that people are copeing and still refusing to say that MYM was a mistake that killed the soul of tf2. even tf2 aesthetic are no longer respected and tf2 now is treated as sort of bad game engine. let's add a vscript mini game mode that don't fit tf2 and will be dead in few weeks. tf2 doesn't need more bloat.

  • @kingofsoup5279
    @kingofsoup5279 5 месяцев назад +3

    alot less people would cry about autobalance if it just prioritized the person on the bigger team with the lowest time in the server to be put on the other team. the main thing ppl dislike about autobalance is working to buildup this defense just to be thrown on offense and vice versa, but if youre the newest person on the team its not likely youve done enough to have any emotional connection to the work youve done for your team.

  • @ebookie_meowda
    @ebookie_meowda Год назад +11

    Ironically, I think MyM started the decline in Valve's desire to work on the game. They really wanted to make their comp mode work to compete with other games, and when they couldn't figure it out, they threw their hands up and gave up on the whole game.

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +12

      I think there's something to this when you combine MyM with Jungle Inferno. They thought they were catering to the tf2 community when they were essentially listening to a bunch of shills that had their own self-serving agenda and make up a tiny amount of the actual playerbase in reality. That's probably why they haven't done any real balance changes since JI (probably a good thing), because they realized they're completely out of touch with the actual community.

    • @ebookie_meowda
      @ebookie_meowda Год назад +6

      I think that if they actually put in the actual thought and actually QA tested their comp mode, they could've gotten away with releasing it without any sort of issue. Casuals would've ignored it, and comp players would have an official platform to play on. I'm somebody who formerly tried getting into comp (never did because my attitude is really, really awful for competition, and I learned my limits). But ffs their comp map rotation has TURBINE of all maps, and early on, you would lose rank for winning matches. Not to mention they disregarded a lot of suggestions comp players were screaming to be added to comp mode, like class limits. Overall, it becomes one, big unfun cesspool because Valve refused to put in the time to make sure to release any sort of quality to the game.
      Regarding the balance changes, the jungle inferno balance changes are all utterly retarded, even when something DID deserve it like the dead ringer or POSSIBLY the sand man (still unsure how to feel about that one getting nerfed. It was annoying, but it's not easy hitting that ball). Even when they did get something right, they went about it completely wrong, like with nerfing the dead ringer without removing the speed boost and pretty much making it a direct downgrade in all situations outside of practicing revolver aim on 2fort or some shit like that.
      Meanwhile, things that deserve nerfs, like Wrangler, are left untouched because it would make the braindead Sigafoo-simping turtle engineers upset because they can't sit in a corner while spamming uncle dane memes in the corner. Ambassador (which I've been pissed off about for years. Not only do they nerf a weapon that never needed a nerf, they nerfed it in the one way it should never had been nerfed in) and YER's nerfs (even when they said YER was a buff lmao) were particularly egregious because they showed that they only care about the lowest common denominator, especially when regarding unpopular classes like Spy. (A little biased tho cuz I'm a Spy main)
      They had no reason to change the casual matchmaking system from quickplay, though. It's unironically the biggest reason the bot problem is so bad right now. It was fine before. They exchanged it for a system that wasn't even fucking playtested when it launched.
      All this boils down to them trying to make the game mainstream without putting a single second into understanding how their own game fucking works, nor do they put in any effort to make sure their changes even fucking work, all while ignoring the players from both casual and comp in favor of rushing out half-baked products for no damn reason. It's incompetence at its finest. @@GODber777

    • @ebookie_meowda
      @ebookie_meowda Год назад +3

      Apologies about the wall. My feelings, as a tryhard, are very complicated for the changes lol. It really feels like they weren't making these changes for anyone lol. Certainly not casuals or tryhards. They were just fucking stupid.@@GODber777

    • @CoolSs
      @CoolSs Год назад +6

      100%
      jungle inferno is proof of that actually. they doubled down on the casual system after one year of silence. then when people done playing JI. tf2 just hit its lowest player number of all time. what showed valve that people were not buying it (because people wanted quick play) but valve wanted another csgo in their hand. tf2 downfall is their fault and them not admitting it and not reverting the changes . is so childish.

  • @Soapromancer
    @Soapromancer Год назад +9

    'Ey I'm wohkin 'ere

  • @CoolSs
    @CoolSs Год назад +7

    A reminder. that casual use the glicko system from csgo. tf2 as a game. you can't defy how skillful someone that easily like csgo (it's not as simple as who can point and click better) tf2 should have never had any sort of skill matchmaking . sbmm the worst thing to hit gaming since motion blur.
    btw. the last time tf2 matchmaking system got updated was the blue moon update (2018). so it been more then 5 years with this broken system that make it easier for bots to ruin games. #BringBackQuickPlay.

  • @majorzero5385
    @majorzero5385 Год назад +4

    At least someone mention this

  • @pvt.pingus1758
    @pvt.pingus1758 Год назад +5

    Well said, literally only reason why TF2 survived with all infections after they flayed our boy, is thanks to economy (I believe).
    Because every other game would have died, but TF2 didn't somehow. And I truly believe it's thanks to the steam market.

    • @CoolSs
      @CoolSs Год назад +5

      and if they kill tf2. the csgo economy will collapse too because everyone will lose faith in the system. and valve will never harm their favorite kid like cs

  • @krocon
    @krocon Год назад +14

    AND there are people who dare to say that tf2 """"""needed"""""' this abomination. Since quickplay has been removed this game became so much less fun and since matchmaking effectively killed most community servers it has become so hard to enjoy tf2 even when bots and cheaters aren't present. And the worst part about all this is that despite everything tf2 is far more fun then any other multiplayer fps on the market. I WISH I could quit this game but everything else is just way worse

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +11

      So true. TF2 has been on a sharp decline for like 8 years now and even it's most decrepit form it's still irreplaceable because no good multiplayer games are even coming out.

    • @CoolSs
      @CoolSs Год назад +6

      someone uncle *cough* dane.

  • @Jvizzlezz
    @Jvizzlezz Год назад +7

    getting into a functioning game at all is an immense privilege for some people like me. i don't know if i'm just cursed or what, but i hop into tf2 and queue for whatever map i feel like, and whether i'm only queued for turbine, if i'm only queued for some random ass map no one plays, or if i'm queued for every map in the game, it inevitably takes anywhere from 5 minutes to LITERALLY SEVERAL HOURS to get into a game at all. and, of course, 90% of the games i join are completely overrun with robots and spinbotting cheaters. being able to """"Play"""" tf2 for 5 hours and getting into more than 2-3 games where there are people on both sides and there are no cheaters or robots (or if there are, there's only 1 or 2 and we can kick them) is a highlight, an outlier in a sea of me staring at the main menu wondering what kind of country i must have sank in my previous life to be on such a valve shitlist. i watch in horror and confusion as some of my other friends get on tf2 and are in a game within seconds, or bouncing from game to game with 0 effort. meanwhile i get on tf2 and i stare at nothing for half of my waking day and then get off 6 hours later having only played 3-5 minutes of real gameplay. where the fuck are the 100000-300000 players that are apparently playing tf2 every day?

  • @ivanthehighman177
    @ivanthehighman177 Год назад +14

    Let's make the give me quick play or give me death a hashtag. Praying everyday this spreads and more people like you speak out, I still remember rejoining tf2 after 2015 and even I with the little experience I had knew something was completely wrong.

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +12

      I don't hold much stock in hashtag campaigns, because the savetf2 fiasco showed how it ends. Valve makes a basic PR gesture (via a fkn tweet) and then everyone's satisfied. Only way any changes can finalize is if someone that works at Valve decides to press the issue. So the real solution is for everyone to apply for a job at Valve. They can't reject us all.
      lol

    • @ivanthehighman177
      @ivanthehighman177 Год назад +1

      @@GODber777 Good point, I swear one of the major tf2 youtubers knew the single dev working on the game, if he ever sees your stuff maybe he could present it to the single dev. But knowing how weak boned most modern tf2 tubers are, I doubt. This really is like the total war CA situation but the youtubers for tf2 are not shills but just bare boned.

    • @CoolSs
      @CoolSs Год назад

      @@GODber777 we lose nothing about it if you ask me. also if the community on large saw that people actually talking about the issue. this legitimately could show valve quick play worth getting back. worth a shot if you ask me.
      Valve themselves admitted that they always watch but never interact. so enough noise and they will notice it. they maybe will do something, it's better then nothing.

  • @sy9593
    @sy9593 Год назад +2

    Its worth mentioning that Autobalance seems to favor players with higher scores, and doesn't seem to work half the time..
    Funny story: I was on Helltower and one poor guy was passed between teams 3 times......the same guy just tossed back and forth, the game didn't even last that long. Now it was Helltower so the it was a longer than average game, but nothing too crazy...Meanwhile i was on a dustbowl match and the enemy team was literally all new players (evident by the badges) and outnumbered...safe to say it was the worst match of their lives, they were trapped in spawn the whole time with no hope of breaking defense or pushing......and where was Autobalance then?!?!?! nowhere to be found.........
    Also this Halloween update erased all hope of TF2 ever being supported again..for me at least. Zombie invasion has no place in this game, Saxton hale was already dead and now we have a new game mode that no one cares for or can play 11 months out of the year....seems that Valve thinks if they add a new game mode every damn updated it will keep us quiet and we wont notice the continued neglect on their part. Sad....just pathetic to see this behavior from a company worth Billions, but I guess thats exactly why they can do whatever they want outside of the fact that they wont EVER admit that Meet your Match was a mistake....
    Everyone say Valve is lazy, to me Valve is not only lazy but also prideful, prideful in a sense that they will let one of their most beloved games die than admit they made an error and fix this mess.

    • @mr.monkey354
      @mr.monkey354 5 месяцев назад +1

      autobalance only exists to punish players

  • @MBP1918
    @MBP1918 Год назад +2

    Understandable

  • @nickvlahos4547
    @nickvlahos4547 Год назад +7

    Complaining about tf2 is funner and gets more views than matchmaking

  • @poppetx
    @poppetx 2 месяца назад +2

    *w a l v e*

  • @snacat
    @snacat Год назад +2

    can't watch the sniper gameplay

  • @MYATWASTAKEN
    @MYATWASTAKEN Год назад +7

    Off topic from the video but what's your opinion on the tf2 community and their obsession with nerfing good weapons

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +11

      I actually mention that briefly in this video, but my last video was already about that. I focused on the ambassador, but pick a nerf from Jungle Inferno and i have a strongly negative view of it. I will elaborate further. But not today.

  • @Kimo_uwu
    @Kimo_uwu Год назад +3

    Why is EDM sub-genre talking about tf2?

  • @alface935
    @alface935 Год назад

    "Team Fortress 2 it's a game, with Teams in it"
    So far so good and also my sense of humor is still broken for made be smile at this

  • @MatildaHinanawi
    @MatildaHinanawi Год назад +1

    This issue is only exacerbated by the fact that the matchmaker takes a good while to find a match (why? there are clearly lots of matches with 1 or more missing players, just pick ANY SERVER if you can't find a good one in 10 seconds). Then, if you got put in during the last 2 minutes of a match, you instantly have to wait for the long requeue again!
    Edit: Also, if a match is "of poor quality" such as massive imbalance, cheaters etc. you also have to immediately requeue, taking YET EVEN LONGER!
    You also can't manually change teams to help a weaker team etc.... it's just terrible.

  • @redstonewarrior0152
    @redstonewarrior0152 Год назад

    I want the game to still have the casual level system.
    I like having a way for people to see how many hours I have poured into the casual experience right from the scoreboard.

  • @thomas044
    @thomas044 Год назад +1

    meet your marge

  • @somedesertdude1308
    @somedesertdude1308 5 месяцев назад

    i like how most players are lvl 1

  • @m-2718
    @m-2718 5 месяцев назад +1

    Still salty about CS:GO disappeariong and deleting all my achivments I worked years of getting becuse hurr durr update time. I had about 80% complition in them! But nah! Fuck you! CS 2 is here!

  • @richardwatson1254
    @richardwatson1254 Год назад +3

    Hey, since you answer comments: what's your stance on TF2 Classic and other mods? Classic in particular I could say it's TF2 but better in just about every way. And outside of some bad taste/jokes custom weapons, the game's free of politics and memes(*looks at scout's zoomer hair*). Would you recommend TF2C to others, or is it better it stays hidden from the prying eyes of the mainstream?

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +6

      I don't really have an opinion. It's not TF2. I'd like an actual TF2 Classic that is just a reversion to pre 2016 TF2, from what i can tell TF2C is just a bunch of custom ideas thrown and mixed in at the whims of whoever's developing it. If you like it, good for you - but i don't care for it.

    • @FlickazSwag
      @FlickazSwag 7 месяцев назад

      pre ji pyro is awful to play lol

  • @kupatmakingvids
    @kupatmakingvids Год назад +2

    dude there are literally 2 people working on tf2 right now, they can't just undo this shit cuz they basically don't know how, they can only add hats and fix bugs

  • @rheum2
    @rheum2 Год назад +2

    It’s not THAT bad

  • @BigBossEats
    @BigBossEats 5 месяцев назад +1

    why dont we just go to community servers?

  • @jesusgalindo900
    @jesusgalindo900 Год назад +1

    I think i'm the only one that don't hate the matchmaking system, yeah, i hate the MyM update on release, but valve actually fix most of the problems, the only one left is the team balance issue, and that could be fix letting players switch teams during matchs (even cs2 let you do that) or re adding vote scramble in the vote screen

    • @MarcusDonahue
      @MarcusDonahue 5 месяцев назад

      It would also be nice if we could still join Valve servers from the server browser or join off our Steam friends. It would also be nice if the matches didn't end immediately because it was a one-sided stomp and they got rid of the match time limit. They didn't fix "most" of the problems, they just fixed a few bugs and changed how autobalance worked a few times then gave up after Blue Moon. Most of the problems people have with matchmaking are still there. The inability to leave a server and come back to it. Disabling sprays when there was already an option in the game to turn them off for yourself. The robust voting system that would let you vote for way more than just kicking players. I'm not saying we should just go back to Quickplay exactly as it was, but if they would have added back in at least some of these features and added the Casual servers back into the server browser, I think people would've warmed up to it better

  • @Skybert88
    @Skybert88 7 месяцев назад

    it's funny how those who didn't play before quickplay thinks quickplay was the golden age.
    The really GOOD old days was the era before quickplay and before free to play.TF2 has never been as fun or good as it was back then.
    Anyway, good video

  • @SHDW-nf2ki
    @SHDW-nf2ki Год назад

    Match by skill should be law.
    I've never enjoyed a multiplayer game the way I did MWO because you actually got matched with players who *wanted to win* guys who would communicate and work together.
    It also helped that MWO didn't deafen all its new players in a half ass attempt at stopping bots instead of just updating VAC so they got to learn much faster than TF2 players do.

    • @desko2041
      @desko2041 Год назад

      MWO?

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +8

      Skill "based" matchmaking has failed every single time it has been tried.
      And the idea that you could add an ELO/MMR system into a game where a sizeable amount of the playerbase is just fucking around with rocket jumpers and trying to hit people with fish is complete insanity. Rethink your life.

    • @desko2041
      @desko2041 Год назад

      @@GODber777 I think thats a bit of a harsh response (particularly the rethink your life part…) but I do agree skill based match making just wouldn’t work in a game with a mostly casual playerbase like tf2

  • @basil5275
    @basil5275 Год назад +2

    Why don’t you just play community servers? I know it’s a bit of a copout answer, but they’re there, and they solve all of your issues you’ve listed here. Just save yourself the headache and ditch casual dude.

    • @WYCKingNothing
      @WYCKingNothing Год назад

      The only consistently populated community server that runs the vanilla game is a furry server and every other server is a tryhard sweatfest no crit comp server with gender confused mods the get mad at anyone with a edgy sense of humor

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +17

      Even if i did know any worthwhile community servers i'd still have made the video, because i wanted to vocalize the issue. But i don't know any worthwhile community servers. If you know any populated ones that play 5cp and koth and don't have class limits and nocrits and other annoying plugins i welcome any recommendations.

    • @Lethal_Spoon
      @Lethal_Spoon Год назад +7

      “just play community servers” literal bethesda cope “just let the community fix it”

    • @CoolSs
      @CoolSs Год назад +4

      MYM KILLED THEM. the old quick play system that allowed you joining vanilla community servers was the best. after MYM got released. every community server around me is dead. all what's left are gimmick game modes. casual mode is the only way to play vanilla tf2 and it filled with bots.

    • @largin386
      @largin386 8 месяцев назад

      @@GODber777Kogasatopia, check it out.
      some of the gay Jungle Inferno nerfs reverted there too.

  • @moonblaze2713
    @moonblaze2713 Год назад

    Least self hating TF2 player

  • @KimvyKinsley
    @KimvyKinsley Год назад +1

    bro really called quickplay the golden age

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +11

      You're goddamn right.

    • @MannFace51
      @MannFace51 Год назад +8

      it was

    • @KimvyKinsley
      @KimvyKinsley Год назад

      @@MannFace51no it wasn't lol

    • @MannFace51
      @MannFace51 Год назад +2

      ​@@KimvyKinsley It was. I started on console in 2010, moved to PC in late 2011. Back then TF2 was THE drop-in drop-out game. None of this 'first to two' business. Games ended when you stopped playing. Simple as that. Ergo, you could play 20 rounds of Egypt on an official Valve server no problem. And the Quickplay system itself worked just fine as long as you stayed on official/good community servers.
      It was simply Red vs Blu. No administrator voicelines, or janky freeze screen prematch. MyM tried WAAAYY to hard to make tf2 babby-friendly and streamlined, which sounds good on paper, until you see that you can't freely change teams, scramble teams, spectate or play on the same map for more than 4 rounds. Its that Overwatch/competitve style of 'Fuck your freedom, heres your team, like it or quit' that I don't jive with. Betrays the nonserious nature of what this game is, or was anyways. It serves to create frustration more than cooperation.
      All to grind out a meaningless casual medal that serves no purpose.
      It used to be fun to mess around on the same map for like 15 rounds. You'd get to know the playstyles of people that stook around, and maybe even make genuine friends. Now its just a quick 20-40min 2 rounds and BAM never seeing those people again.
      And thats to say nothing of the shorter games making it easier for bots to pop in and ruin matches. Or the fact that F2Ps can't vocalize, chat, or speak at all. Hard for a bot to join when all 24 people are actively engaged for multiple hours.
      What we have now is a shallow, puddle thin imitation of the nearly 24/7 goofball show old TF2 was.
      Modern TF2 literally does nothing for me but spike my cortisol to unhealthy levels. Its just not fun.
      Hope you read all that :3

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +8

      @@MannFace51 Couldn't have said better myself.

  • @PurpleBroadcast
    @PurpleBroadcast Год назад

    If matchmaking is so good why didnt you make a video like this back then saying how great it is? You dont know what you have until its gone?
    Wait whats the point of complaining if nothing's going to change
    If casual is so bad, do you never play it?

    • @GODber777
      @GODber777  Год назад +10

      This is a profoundly stupid comment, but you're 12 so you get a pass.

    • @dumbvillage9253
      @dumbvillage9253 Месяц назад

      Because he had no interest in making a video about it? Or a video in general?

  • @hacksmerian2879
    @hacksmerian2879 Год назад +1

    The current matchmaking system is still superior to the way it was before meat your match

  • @Armolitskiy
    @Armolitskiy Месяц назад +1

    Based video. I hate matchmaking and major issue with team balancing in casual makes me mad.