@@Animal_lives_matter He's not there's a lot of data mining being done in background though it's in windows 10 as well, it can be disabled though but it requires some tech knowledge or YT video guide for most people.
@@tedstriker4278 I'm very confident that MS made the e-cores MUCH more efficient at harvesting any data they might be able to sell. After all, Microsoft has made it very clear that Windows is no longer their product, we are the product.
@@tedstriker4278Simple solution, don't buy CPUs with e-cores. They are ancient Intel Atom cores from when hyperthreading was in its infancy. It's incredible how garbage they are. Intel is looking to release new CPUs without e-cores that will be much better. The e-cores give you nothing, no performance, no efficiency, because they are so old.
@MrNside I mean at that point Win98 was literally the best Windows of all time. I got down to like 9-13 running background processes. Was important when trying to game on a 733mhz Celeron clocked to 913 🤣
On AMD systems using a modern distro, with modern features. Fedora KDE for example. The truth of it is, taking the average, there's not much in it. Linux does tend to win out with older API's and emulation, but with X11 and 12 games, translated to vulkan, you really wouldn't know which OS you're running. The experience is excellent on AMD I can tell you that.
@@WarriorProphet In native games, a couple percent probably yeah.. the issue is there is too few native games, so we need to do a fair comparison. As soon as some extra layer is involved, performance will drop measurably. And that is the case for the overwhelming majority of games. On the other hand, way less overhead.
*Benchmark Results:* *Baldur's Gate 3:* No performance difference between the operating systems for both AMD and Intel CPUs. *The Last of Us Part One:* Windows 10 was slightly faster by 1-2%, but the difference is minimal. *Cyberpunk 2077 (Phantom Liberty):* Significant performance gains on Windows 10, with up to a 10% increase for AMD's 7800X3D and a 6-7% increase for Intel CPUs. The reason for this discrepancy is unclear. *Hogwarts Legacy:* No performance difference between Windows 10 and Windows 11. *Assetto Corsa Competizione (ACC):* Windows 10 provided a slight performance boost of around 2-3% for both AMD and Intel CPUs. *Spider-Man Remastered:* Similar to Hogwarts Legacy and The Last of Us Part One, showing no significant performance differences. *Homeworld 3:* Windows 10 offered a performance boost of up to 6% for the 7800X3D and 4% for the 7700X. Intel CPUs saw a 3-5% improvement. *A Plague Tale: Requiem:* Windows 10 showed a 5-10% performance boost for AMD CPUs and 3-4% for Intel CPUs. *Counter-Strike 2:* Windows 10 provided consistent performance improvements, with up to a 10% increase for the 7700X and an 11% increase for the 14700K. *Starfield:* Windows 10 offered up to a 4% boost for AMD CPUs and a similar improvement for Intel CPUs. *Horizon Forbidden West & Hitman 3:* No noticeable performance difference. *Watch Dogs Legion:* Windows 10 showed up to a 2% performance increase. *Summary:* Five out of thirteen games tested showed noticeable performance advantages with Windows 10 over Windows 11, particularly when core isolation was disabled. The reason for Windows 10’s superior performance in some games is unclear, but potential factors could include recent Windows 11 updates or display driver issues. Generally, a clean installation of Windows is recommended for better performance and stability compared to upgrading from an older version.
Please Valve... keep hammering on Proton. I'm SO close to not needing to dual boot between Linux and Windows, and I'm waiting, with bated breath, for Hardware Unboxed's "Linux is finally a viable operating system for gamers" video.
If Linux gets to the point where it can comfortably run all games with only minor performance degradation, or indeed none at all, then I'll make the switch too. That's coming from a sysengineer that only worked with Windows, both server and consumer editions. Sick and tired of the ever increasing bloatware.
@@Mattia_98 BS. I've been in the PC space for thirty years and I've been using Linux since Debian 2.0. "Viable option" does not mean "If you make enough compromises on software compatibility" or "spend hours or weeks on forums to hand tune a Wine prefix file and hunt DLLs from dubious sources".
No, they focus on spyware and control of user's computer. They said win 10 will be the last version of windows and there will be not win 11. There is win 11, with online session by default. I'm pretty sure they wanted to rent win 12, but with rumours spreading about it, they wait for win 13 to rent it, and if you don't pay you will have a trash version with spyware and advertising for mafia companies all over your desktop.
When W11 wins it does by 1/2 FPS, when W10 wins it does by 1/2 FPS at least, almost 20 FPS at best. That's like a different CPU level of performance difference.
@@DiGz_Au dude... 20 FPS difference with OC means an amazing OC lmao, do you even own a PC? OC on a CPU increases mainly 1% and .1% lows, 99% comes from GPU. Before commenting next time inform yourself.
I was happy with Windows for the most part for a very long time, except for a large portion of the XP era. But their practices have given me a lot of pause. I spend about half my time on Linux Mint now, and I think it won't be long before I ditch Windows entirely. MS has made it very clear they're not interested in user experience, and what's happening with Proton is amazing. Using Linux again after like 15 years has actually been a ton of fun.
How many people have Win 10 enterprise? Google shows some people selling keys, but the official MS documents seem to point at an enterprise agreement / subscription.
@@oldRighty1 They don't, unless they somehow got their hands on one from some company, in which they maybe work for. The secret ingredient is piracy. Sure, LTSC means you could use Windows 10 securely for longer, but I don't think it'll stop third party software/drivers from cutting support for 10 anyway.
@@kamild_ Broad support for Windows 10 won't end any time soon. Even after the mainstream support ends next year, Microsoft will then begin the ESU program, where you'll be able to pay an annual fee for another three years of updates. Previously that was only available to enterprise customers, but Microsoft are apparently planning to roll it out to regular consumers too. And why not I suppose. It's pretty much free money from people who don't want to upgrade, since they'll be producing the updates anyway for businesses. That'd mark late 2028 as the "real" end for most versions of Windows 10, but even then support won't end overnight. Most things still support Windows 7 here in 2024. Mozilla recently announced that they're considering extending Firefox's end of life for Windows 7 again. Even an online game like World of Warcraft still has Windows 7 as its minimum requirement. Windows 10 will become the new turd that just won't flush, unless Microsoft can get its house in order and produce something that sucks a lot less than Windows 11.
Setting an eye on Linux gaming would also be very useful in my opinion as it is becoming an attractive and more private, yet very functional, alternative to Windows. I currently use a Linux system with Fedora for programming but I can say it's getting easier to navigate, install apps and a bunch of other activities with the GUI. Just like Windows but you have full control over your privacy and frankly it's really smooth and a fresh experience. Although it still has it's little details to work on and probably one should still know about command line, you could always just dual boot to mess around on Linux but still have Windows.
There's no reason to "upgrade" from windows 10 to windows 11. It's slower, has a shittier interface, and has less features. Its overall a pretty large downgrade
@@sonic064 I haven't used the "show more options" for a long time since all the apps that I use already support the new menu and dragging to the taskbar has been fixed in a while too. When was the last time you have used Windows 11?
As a Linux gamer myself, I couldn't agree more. So many different distros, settings, kernel flavors...actually impossible to come up with a standardized testing approach. A good start, however, could be to use a distro that's officially supported by the CPU/GPU manufacturers which would be Ubuntu I guess (not an ubuntu user myself, but I wouldn't complain).
@@deadman5985 Clear Linux would be in that case the best middle ground ? It's an intel sponsored distribution. And since it's content for gamers, an "out of the box" ( unboxed ? :D ) experience, no patch, no kernel, no modifications what so ever. mesa driver for AMD GPU and official drivers from Nvidia ( proprietary currently ) installed from the package manager.
A good option would be to use the Flatpak version of Steam. That comes with its own MESA version and thus makes things quite independent of the used distribution.
@@trixniisama Idk Ive never used Linux, but its been in the back of my head ever since win11 has gone downhill. Wanted to give it a shot but i keep hearing that NV cards have issues with wayland so i hope those those problems get ironed out first
A great idea for a follow up video would be testing both Windows versions before and after installing AtlasOS on top of them and comparing the performance difference.
Interestingly, Wendell from LevelOneTechs very recently found some funky behavior with core isolation not actually being fully off in Windows 11 unless you turn off SVM in the motherboard settings.
@@fateunleashed9680 i have to say... Windows 11 is better... After having windows corrupted beyond repair this week, i decided to give w11 a shot, and holy shit its good now. They let u uninstall all the shit u couldnt before, edge, cortana and all that bullshit, i also always run windows with tPM off, and all those fancy security bullshit that w11 has and 10 doesnt so fuck it, insta disable. After playing a bit, performance is about the same, but one thing he cant show in the video but i could EASILY feel is how smooth games were, like WORLDS diference. Now ima have to use w11 😅, hate the extra clicks to do the same shit but oh well its better. For reference, cpu is 5600x and gpu 6650xt Oh and no, it isnt because its a fresh install, i do a fresh install ocasionaly and never had any improvement using w10
@@Sirius3322 You won't. Microsoft gains nothing from forcing users to pay to upgrade from W10 to W11, they want as many people on W11 as possible so they can shove all the trackers/ads/AI nonsense in your face.
Steve, you disabled Core Isolation's memory integrity. But did you also disable Virtual Machine Platform. This can also cause a significant performance loss. Even MS recommends disabling these 2 features to optimize gaming performance.
Came here to say this as well. Disabling Core Isolation does not disable VBS. In recent Win11 builds all virtualization features need to be removed, including Hyper-V.
@@Manakuski We can't post links on youtube. But if you search for "Options to optimize gaming performance in Windows 11", one result will be from Microsoft, telling how to disable both settings.
@@Alexx_80 CSM simulates a traditional BIOS environment, enabling the boot process for older operating systems and software that rely on BIOS functionality. It's not related to Virtual Machine Platform.
@@gerarderloper ubuntu is quite easy to install, you need only usb drive >=8 gb, internet connection, ~100-200 gb free (unallocated) disk, 20 minutes and a little patience.
@@sinephase for those who have never touched linux before in their entire lives. Yes it seems so going by reddit posts with cold turkey attempts at using Linux. lol
@@gerarderloper That's probably a small subset of 'not-so-bright' individuals. Some may give up on things too easily, too. It's really not that hard. Turn off secure boot and choose to boot from usb. That's it really. If you want both OS's, unhook the Windows drive before you boot up.
My guess is regarding CB2077 difference is related to SMT. The thread scheduler in W10/11 are different in how they handle things. I would suggested trying to mess around with the SMT toggle in game and probably would've found a setting that yielded identical performance. This could also be a reason for the differences in other benchmarks as well, CP just being one of the best examples that has had issues with it in the past.
Linux gave me over %20 bump on my low-end laptop over W10. The lighter weight operating systems should have increasing advantage the lower end hardware you use.
Steve, could you please do the comparison once again after Win11 24H2 is released officially, and please add Zen 5 to the mix. Also, please disable all virtualisation features directly in the BIOS, like Wendell recommends, just to be sure.
Good testing and test results. It would be really nice to know where the difference in performance came from where it occurred, so if you continue digging into things like resource usage, processes, limiting factors, etc and find it, please post another video with the update.
You should revisit this topic with more up to date tests. Just went from win 10 - win 11 debloated install for both and same drivers got a substantial increase all around on fps. It seems too many people jumped to conclusions about windows 11 before listening to your final thoughts. The 24H2 update has definitely improved gaming for me.
What about using AMD GPU? Did you do some short testing just to check if the margins between 10 and 11 are similar. We saw different CPU overhead with Nvidia and AMD, which was always better on the Nvidia side, but recently the tables have turned, so maybe it’s more significant in this scenario as well. 🙂 Cheers mate
Correlation between gpu scheduling and memory integrity? whilst watching this, i checked this (unknown to me) feature on my win11, and memory integrity was disabled by default
Would love to see a comparison to Linux as well. A gaming focused distro like Bazzite would be good as well as a more mainline distro like Ubuntu or Fedora.
I'm getting my new pc in a few days with a 7800x3d and a 4070 Super and this came at the perfect time because I couldn't decide between the two. Thanks!
Honestly, im not sure if i would *buy* Windows 10 now. I'd (and will) definitely *stick* to Windows 10 if you have it, but buying it with only 1 year left until they discontinue service? Might be safer to go with Windows 11 for peace of mind. Not like the above were insane differences anyways, and chances are they will be fixed now that some data is putting W11 in a bad light. But by all means.. im not a microsoft fan. I hope they release 12 before W10 has its end of service, and if they dont, or 12 sucks.. i'll just switch to linux for good. Which may be an option for you too. While i didnt look into it too much, there is gaming oriented versions. Should be the fastest option for native games aswell, since there is a lot less overhead. That said, not everything has native support and if you need to put another compatibility layer between your hardware and the game, it's gonna tank performance a bit aswell.
@@Yamyatos There is no such thing as "1 year left until they discontinue service". After 2025 you will not get security updates for example updates on libraries of Win Defender and you will not get new functions and features. That's it. 95% will not change. There is no reason anyone should run to switch from 10 to 11. since even Microsoft officially pulls back original features and broken updates for Win 11. The main problem with Windows 11 is Windows 11.
@@HanSolo__ The service microsoft provides is literally the (mostly security) updates. Discontinuing the service means just that. Nobody said you couldnt use windows anymore at all. You can also still use XP.. but you'd be stupid to do so. Windows 7, less dramatic, but same story. As soon as a major security issue is discovered, you are not safe anymore. For someone who *exclusively* uses their PC for gaming that may or may not be fine.. but if you do some more serious stuff on it aswell (online banking, ..) you definitely should care.
It would be interesting to include Linux too in these tests. Linux can be faster than Windows even with running a windows only game with proton, because of the much less resource requirement of the OS. I did these kinda test on my amd gaming pc. For example Cyberpunk is a bit faster on Linux than on Win10 2021 LTSC, and that's the most lightweight version of still supported Windows you can install.
I'm curious how much performance might improve after using Chris Tidus' Ultimate Windows Utility tweaks to remove telemetry and background junk. It did help in Win10, a small but noticeable amount of FPS.
@@martinjennings299 I would argue that using "default" setting in both would be a "more fair" assessment. Steve did ALREADY disable ONE of the unneeded bit of cruft in Win11. Complaining about the OTHER bit of cruft seems... well.... Peaceful Skies.
I have a 7800X3D sitting in its box (along with all the other bits) waiting for when build my new system on Monday, I must resist the urge to start it now! As for Windows 11... lol. I'll switch to Linux first.
The simple fact that Windows 10 manages to be any faster at all already shows how much of a downgrade Windows 11 is. You are trading performance (even if just a tiny bit) for essentially no other improvements on what's essentially a re-skinned worse performing Windows 10.
Great info again, thank you! Of course, I do worry about that Intel 14700K in there, and I hope it is not one of the bad ones and all this work (actually using it) risked killing it. Very brave of you!
Thank you for all the effort, especially with double and triple checking your Cyberpunk 2077 results. I recently moved to Linux Mint for my gaming, would you ever consider doing a Windows vs Linux on these higher end components? I know Proton has overhead, but still think it might be an interesting comparison.
would be very interesting to see more operating systems included, down to XP or further if possible, using hardware that supports the most operating systems possible a true battle of the Windows
Hmmm interesting... what graphics card? might be a setting i should play with but i doubt it's massive difference. I could see some games not liking it however.
Funny. I can search and find core isolation but it will not open. It tells me the page I am trying to access has no supported features and is not available. That sucks. Same if I search for "memory isolation".
There are too many tech channels on youtube so I've decided I'm only going to watch ones that hit two out of three criteria. Fabulous hair, beards & cats. You're sailing awfully close to the wind here.
I'm guessing windows 11 must be debloated, using for example Chris Titus script, in order to run it efficiently. By default it has a lot of junk and not the best config.
Thing is that is not the experience anyone gets off it, and if Windows11 were allowed some third party tinkering with the OS, then Linux could demand it. IMO they should do it, but they should test the use of Linux gaming, especially older games, native, proton and wine/clones. Yet do to so would require a lot more work from them, and work they aren't ready for but worse do not want to do anyway, and if the latter rides high, then ANY failure won't be investigated as to whether it is them not the OS, or the game, will be blamed for on Linux and explained away as a game problem for Windows.
@@Fin4L6are it definitely helps. Before my current setup I had a amd FX 6350 and a GTX 960. That was when I noticed the most improvements. Now I just do it cause I like having an optimised system for gaming.
Thanks for including the 12700K. The generation is often ignored in benchmarks now but I guess it's more relevant with the 13/14 gen issues. I've been Intel all my life but started buying AMD (recently bought some mini pc's for general use) and am looking at the 9950X3D when it releases as an upgrade path.
I personally migrated to linux for gaming, fully accepting i would lose some performance in exchange of a cleaner, leaner operating system. Pros and cons. they're on both sides.
My packard bell easynote te has just died ( 2012) version....12 years old and I've just bought a new lenovo i7 16gb gaming edition laptop for a really good £570 new and honestly I can't wait to see the difference between the two 😂😂😂 . My easynote te literally struggled with rollorcoaster tycoon....yes I'm still playing that game . I'm a pc/laptop newbie, and this is my second pc/laptop ever! I'm a learner thanks for the video! Is 12 years a long time for a laptop? My mate's said its absolutely unbelievable I've kept it going so long ( but I've literally only used it for photos and videos from old phones) literally 6 phones over 12 year's worth hahaha
damn, and here i wished it had 7950x3d also, to compare if "amd scheduling problem" is the same on both of those edit: ok, so i guess they retroactivel'y added scheduler to windows 10? whole windows 11 shtick was about making intel p and e-cores stable thanks to scheduling!
Cache-scheduling and P+E-core scheduling is really not the same thing though... Although, yes, E-cores have less cache than P-cores, there are significant differences between the core-types, other than cache. So, win11 scheduler wouldn't necessarily improve things for AMD cpu's.
@@predabot__6778 both are core scheduling, and easiest way to make that would be by grouping them by clock speeds, which x3d cores have lower, same as e-cores other thing would be if it was defined by hand for every cpu, which would exclude ryzens, but as a programmer, i'd go for more universal approach rather than defining all case by case
with 7950x3d in 90% of the game there is no difference between win10 or 11 because OS use preferred cores for the few game with scheduler issue on both OS download process lasso (it replece task manager and it's much better) or ryzen master add exe file,(you have to do it only the first time) select only first chiplet and voila you have better gaming performance than 7800x3d...
Amazing steve, great job. Would love to a see a comprehensive video that optimizes a new PC from scratch. (Bios, Windows, AMD/Nvidia GPU and CPU settings, etc.) on average.
I would have liked to know, only for games that had a significant difference, what the average and peak CPU and GPU clock speeds were and maybe what the idle windows utilisation of CPU and memory was on all the systems. In any case a very interesting experiment and I'd say surprising results. Thanks for the time spent!
@@Kristjan_N I highly suspect he used the same driver version for both. If that driver performs differently between OS versions, than is exactly what this test is meant to highlight.
Well in 2025 we will be forced to go for W11, but tbh it's a lot better than it was in the past. I was staying in W10 to this day, but trying W11 is nice, the only minus was that annoying windows tab. Also they announcent an W11 update for Zen3-5 performance increased
W11 22h2 was very nice, just smooth and snappy. I could see with a naked eye 23h2 slowing down my desktop interface and I'm on a 12700. You can investigate that for the difference
It's a 14700k. Much lower chance of degradation than with the 13900 or 14900. Also, not all chips are prone to the issues. You won't notice it if the processor is new.
OK, I did extended testing (7800X3D RTX4090) with my system and I have the following conclusions: a) Steve didn't turn off Core Isolation successfully or/and b) Windows 11 24H2 is significantly faster than Windows 11 23H2 or/and c) Shader cache was not fully compiled on one of the systems I've tested CP2077, Plague Tale Requiem and The Witcher 3 (with RT). All tests at 1080P fully CPU bound. All the results are on my TW account. Windows 11 is as fast as Windows 10. The difference is often 1-2fps (always in favor of W11 except 1%lows in CP2077).
avoid Windows 11 Version 24H2 because that will have native OpenXR WMR runtime stripped so no more VR with HP G2 and other headset that uses that native build in VR. That's why I'm sticking to Win11 version 22H2
They don't, because they DON'T LIKE Linux. It's worse in that to some extent they're right to not do the test, at least for some time: they will NOT know how to test or what to look for or how the differences "could be" something they, not knowing Linux, are causing to happen or hiding from happening, and not for some time. They would have to get someone who does gaming on Linux to work with them, either paying them or collaborating with them to earn that time off the Linux guru who knows how to find out what could be "wrong" with their setup. Wendell could possibly do it, but he's got server work so well paid to do, and I don't really know that they know anyone else well enough to even ask for help. It is therefore a chicken-and-egg problem. Until they spend many actual hours slaving away testing and doing work on gaming Linux, which means less work on Windows that they can display as a video and make mucho dinero off, they can't DO anything with what they find because the problem, if they find it, may be PEBKAC, and if they don't find a problem, it may be PEBKAC again hiding it, either making the Linux appear worse than it is, or hiding the problem that makes it worse. That and several of the games they WANT to play are unavailable on Linux, often because the anti-cheat requires ring-0 access and a direct hole they are told how to exploit FOR THAT KERNEL. Others they dropped because Windows doesn't play them any more, but they do under Linux, yet will never find out because they have dropped that game already, and you can't miss what you don't bother looking for.
IMO it makes sense to test with the default Out Of The Box settings of both OS' as that will be the experience for most people. Like many, I would also like to see some Linux tests. Can be a multi-part series about setting it up etc. It's time... Thanks Steve!
didnt w11 have a keylogger? maybe recording all your inputs in the background is the reason for this. but i would like to know what part of the game is allowing it to run better while other games are unaffected by the w11
As someone who's been using Bazzite for a couple of months already, personally I see absolutely no reason to go back to either Win10 or 11 for gaming. Linux has come a long way over the past years, mostly due to Valve's involvement, and it only lacks support for a few competitive games, mostly due to the required anti cheat systems being incompatible.
Yep, I'm on Bazzite and have a 20 fps increase in some games. I have an all AMD rig, and it's pretty powerful. HDR is ready so far, and I just bought myself an MSI quantum dot oled gaming monitor, and it's stunning. The only thing left is in-game HDR for all games. Also, I can max out the monitor to the 1000nits peak mode and max the color gamut to rec2020. Looks gorgeous, and I will never go back to Windows.
Can you try disabling virtualization support in bios and check if W11 perf is getting better, I bet disabling Core Isolation works differently in W11 and W10. Was TPM enabled for W10? It’s enabled and required for W11.
Interesting is also that for the other games than cyberpunk phantom the fps could be said is measure tolerance BUT everytime its the 1 to 2 fps slower on win11. So probably not measuring tolerance at the end of the day
Getting lazy, Steve? Where are the Win98 comparisons.
Too new, needs some MS-DOS benchmarks
@@caffzway too new, we need some QDOS benchmarks
Personally, I'd prefer Windows ME benchmarks, preferably with the additional information how many benchmarking runs resulted in blue screens.
you mean win98x3d
Where's every single linux distro comparisons? Getting lazy...
Windows 10 has one spyware less running in background, that's why it performs better.
W11 added computing new vaccines in the background.
You better be kidding
@@Animal_lives_matter He's not there's a lot of data mining being done in background though it's in windows 10 as well, it can be disabled though but it requires some tech knowledge or YT video guide for most people.
Debloated both perform very well. I'm not downgrading from Win 11 ever
compare background ram usage too
Win11: Theoretical improvements in scheduling completely murdered by added background garbage.
That was my only point to think about upgrading, rumor had it that 11 handles the damn e cores better.
@@tedstriker4278 I'm very confident that MS made the e-cores MUCH more efficient at harvesting any data they might be able to sell. After all, Microsoft has made it very clear that Windows is no longer their product, we are the product.
@@tedstriker4278Simple solution, don't buy CPUs with e-cores. They are ancient Intel Atom cores from when hyperthreading was in its infancy. It's incredible how garbage they are. Intel is looking to release new CPUs without e-cores that will be much better. The e-cores give you nothing, no performance, no efficiency, because they are so old.
@@RotaryJunkie
I mean, that basically describes win10 over win7 as well.
@MrNside I mean at that point Win98 was literally the best Windows of all time.
I got down to like 9-13 running background processes. Was important when trying to game on a 733mhz Celeron clocked to 913 🤣
I would like to see a Windows vs Linux(Steam+Proton) FPS comparison!
Linux will be about 10% faster than either windows...so much less load on gpu and cpu to just run the desktop
@@WarriorProphet Lol gl with that 10%
On AMD systems using a modern distro, with modern features. Fedora KDE for example. The truth of it is, taking the average, there's not much in it. Linux does tend to win out with older API's and emulation, but with X11 and 12 games, translated to vulkan, you really wouldn't know which OS you're running. The experience is excellent on AMD I can tell you that.
Me too
@@WarriorProphet In native games, a couple percent probably yeah.. the issue is there is too few native games, so we need to do a fair comparison. As soon as some extra layer is involved, performance will drop measurably. And that is the case for the overwhelming majority of games. On the other hand, way less overhead.
*Benchmark Results:*
*Baldur's Gate 3:* No performance difference between the operating systems for both AMD and Intel CPUs.
*The Last of Us Part One:* Windows 10 was slightly faster by 1-2%, but the difference is minimal.
*Cyberpunk 2077 (Phantom Liberty):* Significant performance gains on Windows 10, with up to a 10% increase for AMD's 7800X3D and a 6-7% increase for Intel CPUs. The reason for this discrepancy is unclear.
*Hogwarts Legacy:* No performance difference between Windows 10 and Windows 11.
*Assetto Corsa Competizione (ACC):* Windows 10 provided a slight performance boost of around 2-3% for both AMD and Intel CPUs.
*Spider-Man Remastered:* Similar to Hogwarts Legacy and The Last of Us Part One, showing no significant performance differences.
*Homeworld 3:* Windows 10 offered a performance boost of up to 6% for the 7800X3D and 4% for the 7700X. Intel CPUs saw a 3-5% improvement.
*A Plague Tale: Requiem:* Windows 10 showed a 5-10% performance boost for AMD CPUs and 3-4% for Intel CPUs.
*Counter-Strike 2:* Windows 10 provided consistent performance improvements, with up to a 10% increase for the 7700X and an 11% increase for the 14700K.
*Starfield:* Windows 10 offered up to a 4% boost for AMD CPUs and a similar improvement for Intel CPUs.
*Horizon Forbidden West & Hitman 3:* No noticeable performance difference.
*Watch Dogs Legion:* Windows 10 showed up to a 2% performance increase.
*Summary:*
Five out of thirteen games tested showed noticeable performance advantages with Windows 10 over Windows 11, particularly when core isolation was disabled.
The reason for Windows 10’s superior performance in some games is unclear, but potential factors could include recent Windows 11 updates or display driver issues.
Generally, a clean installation of Windows is recommended for better performance and stability compared to upgrading from an older version.
You could have added that in almost all these marginal cases W10 was still the faster one :).
They did @@radosuaf
The ending without music was so disturbing, I can never recover from this.
Its because future is so grim
I literally thought that my speakers (or sound driver) went crazy. 😁
Haha exactly, wtf
Just started the video. Clicking off now
I'm literally shaking in fear!!!
HU keeps making benchmarks videos based on intrusive thoughts. And i love it
Please Valve... keep hammering on Proton. I'm SO close to not needing to dual boot between Linux and Windows, and I'm waiting, with bated breath, for Hardware Unboxed's "Linux is finally a viable operating system for gamers" video.
Just the anti-cheat apps causing the problem mostly. Would dearly love DayZ on Linux...
I'm ready to put on my tux, too!
If Linux gets to the point where it can comfortably run all games with only minor performance degradation, or indeed none at all, then I'll make the switch too. That's coming from a sysengineer that only worked with Windows, both server and consumer editions. Sick and tired of the ever increasing bloatware.
It has been a viable option for many years already.
@@Mattia_98 BS. I've been in the PC space for thirty years and I've been using Linux since Debian 2.0. "Viable option" does not mean "If you make enough compromises on software compatibility" or "spend hours or weeks on forums to hand tune a Wine prefix file and hunt DLLs from dubious sources".
Hasn't Microsoft said that they were focusing on Gaming in 2023 on Windows 11 ?
Shhhhh...It's a conspiracy theory that gaslights you to keep buying new PC hardware , by making your rig seems slower.
No, they focus on spyware and control of user's computer. They said win 10 will be the last version of windows and there will be not win 11. There is win 11, with online session by default. I'm pretty sure they wanted to rent win 12, but with rumours spreading about it, they wait for win 13 to rent it, and if you don't pay you will have a trash version with spyware and advertising for mafia companies all over your desktop.
you gotta read between the line and understand , quote : we are focus on spying on you and have the most data possible tracked from you. lol
they always lie, like the ol Bill
Leave Microsoft alone. They do care deeply.
Perfect timing. looking forward to 9800X3D. I am still on Windows 10, even on Alder Lake i've had 0 issues.
Alder lake is which gen could you remind me pls, is that the one that crashes often
@@IstyManame no; it s 12 th gen; basically intel s last good gen
@@IstyManame Alder Lake was 12th gen. The AMD chips were crashing and melting while suffering dead USB ports back then.
@@IstyManame No, it's 12th gen. The name and number is mentioned in this video at 2:40
I'm pretty sure new Ryzens are Win11 only.
The last time I was this early nobody had dumped 700k of inheritance into Intel stock yet
LOL
Too meta
Wait... Is that guy legit? Has anyone found the transactions?
That Reddit post Felt a little trolly, but still oddly plausible
@@oldschoolpanels idk lol they made a follow up post which makes it feel doubly as troll but also doubly as real so I'm just confused
😶
When W11 wins it does by 1/2 FPS, when W10 wins it does by 1/2 FPS at least, almost 20 FPS at best. That's like a different CPU level of performance difference.
20 fps is nothing. Like a mild oc on a cpu.
@@DiGz_Au dude... 20 FPS difference with OC means an amazing OC lmao, do you even own a PC?
OC on a CPU increases mainly 1% and .1% lows, 99% comes from GPU.
Before commenting next time inform yourself.
@@DiGz_Au 20fps is massive for just an other OS lol. and yes even for OC its big
@@DiGz_Au imagine buying a new CPU for 15% boost and then your OS takes 10% away from you lol
This only really matters if you play above 60.
I've kept Windows 10 on my primary desktop because I have had zero reason to switch to 11 and it just works.
Of course it does. Same here. 2025 is when things will get interesting though.
Ofc but wait till support ends and same will happen and it will be in the same place as windows 8
@@despairdx then just get ltsc
Doesn't matter, game developers will completely switch to windows 11.@@Jayy_R2
@@despairdx Support? what support? I've disabled windows updates in the registry since 2022 and it's still running fine today lul.
Would be nice to do this again with the 24H2 update
I was just thinking this. Also should debloat W11 before testing.
@@bren.r well not everyone will debloat, that makes no sense. Tests should be done in stock windows not variants.
its because windows 11 is just win10 with stuff added on which increases overhead
Would've actually loved to see how both would perform after being "debloated" with the common resources out there
Yep. This video is basically pointless without that...
@@awemowe2830 there are already benchmarks with debloated "WINDOWS" and there is no difference between a bloated and debloated windows 10 or 11
the same.. everything new in the core of w11 was already ported to w10 as well. W11 is W10 with added security and extra bloatware
I was happy with Windows for the most part for a very long time, except for a large portion of the XP era. But their practices have given me a lot of pause. I spend about half my time on Linux Mint now, and I think it won't be long before I ditch Windows entirely. MS has made it very clear they're not interested in user experience, and what's happening with Proton is amazing. Using Linux again after like 15 years has actually been a ton of fun.
Linux Mint is superb.
Linux vs Windows would be great
Came exactly to post the same thing. Would love to see a Linux vs Windows!
yes pls
Best time to make a video like this. With Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 getting support up to Jan 13 2032, Windows 10 is a serious consideration
How many people have Win 10 enterprise? Google shows some people selling keys, but the official MS documents seem to point at an enterprise agreement / subscription.
@@oldRighty1 They don't, unless they somehow got their hands on one from some company, in which they maybe work for. The secret ingredient is piracy.
Sure, LTSC means you could use Windows 10 securely for longer, but I don't think it'll stop third party software/drivers from cutting support for 10 anyway.
@@oldRighty1you don't need a key to use Windows
@@kamild_ Broad support for Windows 10 won't end any time soon. Even after the mainstream support ends next year, Microsoft will then begin the ESU program, where you'll be able to pay an annual fee for another three years of updates. Previously that was only available to enterprise customers, but Microsoft are apparently planning to roll it out to regular consumers too. And why not I suppose. It's pretty much free money from people who don't want to upgrade, since they'll be producing the updates anyway for businesses. That'd mark late 2028 as the "real" end for most versions of Windows 10, but even then support won't end overnight. Most things still support Windows 7 here in 2024. Mozilla recently announced that they're considering extending Firefox's end of life for Windows 7 again. Even an online game like World of Warcraft still has Windows 7 as its minimum requirement. Windows 10 will become the new turd that just won't flush, unless Microsoft can get its house in order and produce something that sucks a lot less than Windows 11.
Timer res and FSO have been broken since W10 2004 (or 20H1). No point using it.
Setting an eye on Linux gaming would also be very useful in my opinion as it is becoming an attractive and more private, yet very functional, alternative to Windows.
I currently use a Linux system with Fedora for programming but I can say it's getting easier to navigate, install apps and a bunch of other activities with the GUI. Just like Windows but you have full control over your privacy and frankly it's really smooth and a fresh experience. Although it still has it's little details to work on and probably one should still know about command line, you could always just dual boot to mess around on Linux but still have Windows.
Linux newbies can also try an immutable desktop Linux distro . If they mess up something they can reverse the state to a previous one
Issue is that many anti cheats dont work on Linux
There's no reason to "upgrade" from windows 10 to windows 11. It's slower, has a shittier interface, and has less features. Its overall a pretty large downgrade
Time to upgrade from windows 11 to windows 10 🤪!
What is a "shittier" interface for you? What features Windows 10 has that 11 hasn't? And what about features that 11 has and 10 not?
@@pedrofelck right clic menu for example in less than two steps or drag a file to a x program. Basic stuff
@@sonic064 I haven't used the "show more options" for a long time since all the apps that I use already support the new menu and dragging to the taskbar has been fixed in a while too. When was the last time you have used Windows 11?
@@pedrofelck Can you move your task to the right/left/up/down?
And before Oct/2025: Windows vs. Linux: Gaming Benchmarks
I'd love to see you perform Linux benchmark. I know there would be A LOT of linux complaints about their favorite distribution, config, etc...
As a Linux gamer myself, I couldn't agree more. So many different distros, settings, kernel flavors...actually impossible to come up with a standardized testing approach. A good start, however, could be to use a distro that's officially supported by the CPU/GPU manufacturers which would be Ubuntu I guess (not an ubuntu user myself, but I wouldn't complain).
@@deadman5985 Its the Kernel that is supported by "CPU/GPU manufacturers" ( not NVIDIA ) not the distro.
@@deadman5985 Clear Linux would be in that case the best middle ground ? It's an intel sponsored distribution.
And since it's content for gamers, an "out of the box" ( unboxed ? :D ) experience, no patch, no kernel, no modifications what so ever. mesa driver for AMD GPU and official drivers from Nvidia ( proprietary currently ) installed from the package manager.
All the linux users will have a meltdown because he didn't use their distro of choice
A good option would be to use the Flatpak version of Steam. That comes with its own MESA version and thus makes things quite independent of the used distribution.
Time for a revisit after the latest Win 11 update that boosted Zen 4 and 5 performances ? 🤔
Would be really interesting to see how linux compares to windows in terms of gaming performance, something like Arch or Fedora.
There are distros made to simplify the gaming experience. Better prefer them or test SteamOS.
@@trixniisama Idk Ive never used Linux, but its been in the back of my head ever since win11 has gone downhill. Wanted to give it a shot but i keep hearing that NV cards have issues with wayland so i hope those those problems get ironed out first
@@ThunderingRoar If you have a single screen setup, you're fine. Problems come when people have heterogenous screens
@@malcaniscsm5184 Don't forget your single screen also needs to be scalable by either 100% or 200%. If it's anything in between, prepare for hell.
@@malcaniscsm5184 KDE Plasma 6 under Wayland has pretty much solved that issue now...... and so did xrandr back in the day.
A great idea for a follow up video would be testing both Windows versions before and after installing AtlasOS on top of them and comparing the performance difference.
Linux benchmarks wen?
Interestingly, Wendell from LevelOneTechs very recently found some funky behavior with core isolation not actually being fully off in Windows 11 unless you turn off SVM in the motherboard settings.
Windows 10 feels much lighter less unwanted apps and services
This is the exact thing people said who claimed windows 7 was better than windows 10 which is objectively wrong
@@kennyP105 The term is confirmation bias
@@fateunleashed9680 i have to say... Windows 11 is better...
After having windows corrupted beyond repair this week, i decided to give w11 a shot, and holy shit its good now.
They let u uninstall all the shit u couldnt before, edge, cortana and all that bullshit, i also always run windows with tPM off, and all those fancy security bullshit that w11 has and 10 doesnt so fuck it, insta disable.
After playing a bit, performance is about the same, but one thing he cant show in the video but i could EASILY feel is how smooth games were, like WORLDS diference.
Now ima have to use w11 😅, hate the extra clicks to do the same shit but oh well its better.
For reference, cpu is 5600x and gpu 6650xt
Oh and no, it isnt because its a fresh install, i do a fresh install ocasionaly and never had any improvement using w10
@@XxViperMortalxX show measurements. Your opinion doesn't matter in this case.
@@hihtitmamnan 20cm soft, 7,5 hard 👍🏻
Should this video be re-done with the new windows update that boosted ryzen performance?
Thats what i have been searching for. If you know any of such videos please tag me
Some cache usage inefficiency issue in Win 11? Definitely staying with Win 10 until it is end of life
You'll have to pay for it eventually
use LTSC
Debloat the 11
@@Sirius3322 You won't. Microsoft gains nothing from forcing users to pay to upgrade from W10 to W11, they want as many people on W11 as possible so they can shove all the trackers/ads/AI nonsense in your face.
Win 10 LTSC IoT edition has support until 2032.
Steve, you disabled Core Isolation's memory integrity. But did you also disable Virtual Machine Platform.
This can also cause a significant performance loss. Even MS recommends disabling these 2 features to optimize gaming performance.
This. ON AMD systems it's called "CSM support" in BIOS.
Came here to say this as well. Disabling Core Isolation does not disable VBS. In recent Win11 builds all virtualization features need to be removed, including Hyper-V.
So if i disable virtualization support from bios for my intel CPU, this will ensure all of these are disabled?
@@Manakuski We can't post links on youtube. But if you search for "Options to optimize gaming performance in Windows 11", one result will be from Microsoft, telling how to disable both settings.
@@Alexx_80 CSM simulates a traditional BIOS environment, enabling the boot process for older operating systems and software that rely on BIOS functionality.
It's not related to Virtual Machine Platform.
Need proton vs windows testing.
Thanks Steve.
I doubt Steve or anyone at HU even knows how to 'setup Linux for gaming' let alone choose a decent distro and set it up for gaming...
@@gerarderloper ubuntu is quite easy to install, you need only usb drive >=8 gb, internet connection, ~100-200 gb free (unallocated) disk, 20 minutes and a little patience.
@@gerarderloper LMAO cuz it's so hard?
@@sinephase for those who have never touched linux before in their entire lives. Yes it seems so going by reddit posts with cold turkey attempts at using Linux. lol
@@gerarderloper That's probably a small subset of 'not-so-bright' individuals. Some may give up on things too easily, too. It's really not that hard. Turn off secure boot and choose to boot from usb. That's it really. If you want both OS's, unhook the Windows drive before you boot up.
My guess is regarding CB2077 difference is related to SMT. The thread scheduler in W10/11 are different in how they handle things. I would suggested trying to mess around with the SMT toggle in game and probably would've found a setting that yielded identical performance. This could also be a reason for the differences in other benchmarks as well, CP just being one of the best examples that has had issues with it in the past.
would be interesting to see this test on lower end hardware
Exactly my thoughts. And that's a majority of the PC users.
Linux gave me over %20 bump on my low-end laptop over W10. The lighter weight operating systems should have increasing advantage the lower end hardware you use.
Can you repeat the test with the new 24H2 update?
As I'd like to know how much that affects the results.
Steve, could you please do the comparison once again after Win11 24H2 is released officially, and please add Zen 5 to the mix. Also, please disable all virtualisation features directly in the BIOS, like Wendell recommends, just to be sure.
Good testing and test results. It would be really nice to know where the difference in performance came from where it occurred, so if you continue digging into things like resource usage, processes, limiting factors, etc and find it, please post another video with the update.
Steve : back to you Steve
Steve: Thanks Steve
Must have been watching Grand Line Review
You should revisit this topic with more up to date tests. Just went from win 10 - win 11 debloated install for both and same drivers got a substantial increase all around on fps. It seems too many people jumped to conclusions about windows 11 before listening to your final thoughts. The 24H2 update has definitely improved gaming for me.
What about using AMD GPU? Did you do some short testing just to check if the margins between 10 and 11 are similar. We saw different CPU overhead with Nvidia and AMD, which was always better on the Nvidia side, but recently the tables have turned, so maybe it’s more significant in this scenario as well. 🙂
Cheers mate
You forgot about HAGS (hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling) which is disabled on 10 and enabled on 11 by default.
Which should improve Windows 10 perf even more!
No music at the end of the video? Editor missed that one? 😃
Correlation between gpu scheduling and memory integrity? whilst watching this, i checked this (unknown to me) feature on my win11, and memory integrity was disabled by default
Would love to see a comparison to Linux as well. A gaming focused distro like Bazzite would be good as well as a more mainline distro like Ubuntu or Fedora.
In case of intel hybrid CPU Does it matter that there is no thread director (optimization of p and e cores) in win 10?
I'm getting my new pc in a few days with a 7800x3d and a 4070 Super and this came at the perfect time because I couldn't decide between the two.
Thanks!
About to build the same system, good luck
Honestly, im not sure if i would *buy* Windows 10 now. I'd (and will) definitely *stick* to Windows 10 if you have it, but buying it with only 1 year left until they discontinue service? Might be safer to go with Windows 11 for peace of mind. Not like the above were insane differences anyways, and chances are they will be fixed now that some data is putting W11 in a bad light. But by all means.. im not a microsoft fan. I hope they release 12 before W10 has its end of service, and if they dont, or 12 sucks.. i'll just switch to linux for good. Which may be an option for you too. While i didnt look into it too much, there is gaming oriented versions. Should be the fastest option for native games aswell, since there is a lot less overhead. That said, not everything has native support and if you need to put another compatibility layer between your hardware and the game, it's gonna tank performance a bit aswell.
Get 11 and debloat it
@@Yamyatos There is no such thing as "1 year left until they discontinue service". After 2025 you will not get security updates for example updates on libraries of Win Defender and you will not get new functions and features. That's it. 95% will not change. There is no reason anyone should run to switch from 10 to 11. since even Microsoft officially pulls back original features and broken updates for Win 11.
The main problem with Windows 11 is Windows 11.
@@HanSolo__ The service microsoft provides is literally the (mostly security) updates. Discontinuing the service means just that. Nobody said you couldnt use windows anymore at all. You can also still use XP.. but you'd be stupid to do so. Windows 7, less dramatic, but same story. As soon as a major security issue is discovered, you are not safe anymore. For someone who *exclusively* uses their PC for gaming that may or may not be fine.. but if you do some more serious stuff on it aswell (online banking, ..) you definitely should care.
Amazing data man - thanks for your hard work
This would be interesting to revisit with the new Win11 performance gains.
5:00 I wonder if the presence of so much high speed X3D cache makes it harder to mitigate memory exploits?
You might want to revisit this if the latest Windows 11 update has improved overall CPU performance by a considerable amount.
Very interesting video. Thanks Steve and team!
Would love to see a revisit after the 24H2 update improving amd performance
And I’d love to see the amd 5000 series cpus in the test
Nice video 👍Well research, cleany presented, ultra persuasive.
Kindest regards, friends and neighbours.
It would be interesting to include Linux too in these tests. Linux can be faster than Windows even with running a windows only game with proton, because of the much less resource requirement of the OS.
I did these kinda test on my amd gaming pc. For example Cyberpunk is a bit faster on Linux than on Win10 2021 LTSC, and that's the most lightweight version of still supported Windows you can install.
I'm curious how much performance might improve after using Chris Tidus' Ultimate Windows Utility tweaks to remove telemetry and background junk. It did help in Win10, a small but noticeable amount of FPS.
HAGS is enabled by default in Win11 while disabled in Windows 10. Might have impacted performance.
That is exactly what I was thinking. They don't state if they are disabled or enabled!
@@martinjennings299 I would argue that using "default" setting in both would be a "more fair" assessment.
Steve did ALREADY disable ONE of the unneeded bit of cruft in Win11. Complaining about the OTHER bit of cruft seems... well....
Peaceful Skies.
Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling?
@@chrisblack6258 ye
Shouldn’t it supposedly help the performance in a cpu limited test though?
Very good testing variables! Thx!
I have a 7800X3D sitting in its box (along with all the other bits) waiting for when build my new system on Monday, I must resist the urge to start it now!
As for Windows 11... lol. I'll switch to Linux first.
Same, resisting the urge till the last piece comes in a few days
@@despairdx honestly if you got alot of the main stuff together might aswell because it does take quite a few hours to put it together nicely
@@despairdx ive changed platform from b550 5600x to 12600kf and b760 then my gpu 6650xt to 6800xt just waiting on the 6800xt to come in the mail
Shout out to Tim for being a great hype man for monitors in the ad spot. Everything at HU keeps getting better over time.
The simple fact that Windows 10 manages to be any faster at all already shows how much of a downgrade Windows 11 is. You are trading performance (even if just a tiny bit) for essentially no other improvements on what's essentially a re-skinned worse performing Windows 10.
Great info again, thank you! Of course, I do worry about that Intel 14700K in there, and I hope it is not one of the bad ones and all this work (actually using it) risked killing it. Very brave of you!
Thank you for all the effort, especially with double and triple checking your Cyberpunk 2077 results. I recently moved to Linux Mint for my gaming, would you ever consider doing a Windows vs Linux on these higher end components? I know Proton has overhead, but still think it might be an interesting comparison.
would be very interesting to see more operating systems included, down to XP or further if possible, using hardware that supports the most operating systems possible
a true battle of the Windows
Has the windows setting "Hardware accelerated GPU scheduling" got anything to do with these results ?
Doubtful both windows 10 and 11 have HAGS
@traxex117 yes but it's bugged on win 11 on some configs including my own. Mine performs better w it off
@@FrozokenMine performs better without HAGS too on Windows 10 though
Hmmm interesting... what graphics card? might be a setting i should play with but i doubt it's massive difference.
I could see some games not liking it however.
Just left it on. Hags is required for proper framegen anw.
Funny. I can search and find core isolation but it will not open. It tells me the page I am trying to access has no supported features and is not available. That sucks. Same if I search for "memory isolation".
There are too many tech channels on youtube so I've decided I'm only going to watch ones that hit two out of three criteria. Fabulous hair, beards & cats. You're sailing awfully close to the wind here.
You should really test some CPU heavy games/engines. I.e. Cryengine 5.11 Hunt: Showdown 1896, Unity Escape From Tarkov.
I'm guessing windows 11 must be debloated, using for example Chris Titus script, in order to run it efficiently.
By default it has a lot of junk and not the best config.
Even debloated its still slower then win10 on my 7600x 32gb 6200 cl28 and 7900XT system. Even with atlas os. Ill stay on win10 for now.
Thing is that is not the experience anyone gets off it, and if Windows11 were allowed some third party tinkering with the OS, then Linux could demand it. IMO they should do it, but they should test the use of Linux gaming, especially older games, native, proton and wine/clones. Yet do to so would require a lot more work from them, and work they aren't ready for but worse do not want to do anyway, and if the latter rides high, then ANY failure won't be investigated as to whether it is them not the OS, or the game, will be blamed for on Linux and explained away as a game problem for Windows.
@@НААТ has debloat helped at least?
@@Fin4L6are it definitely helps. Before my current setup I had a amd FX 6350 and a GTX 960. That was when I noticed the most improvements. Now I just do it cause I like having an optimised system for gaming.
sadly microsoft re-enables spyware services after the titus script during updates. Eventually you end up with bloat happening again.
Thanks for including the 12700K. The generation is often ignored in benchmarks now but I guess it's more relevant with the 13/14 gen issues. I've been Intel all my life but started buying AMD (recently bought some mini pc's for general use) and am looking at the 9950X3D when it releases as an upgrade path.
I personally migrated to linux for gaming, fully accepting i would lose some performance in exchange of a cleaner, leaner operating system. Pros and cons. they're on both sides.
My packard bell easynote te has just died ( 2012) version....12 years old and I've just bought a new lenovo i7 16gb gaming edition laptop for a really good £570 new and honestly I can't wait to see the difference between the two 😂😂😂 . My easynote te literally struggled with rollorcoaster tycoon....yes I'm still playing that game . I'm a pc/laptop newbie, and this is my second pc/laptop ever! I'm a learner thanks for the video! Is 12 years a long time for a laptop? My mate's said its absolutely unbelievable I've kept it going so long ( but I've literally only used it for photos and videos from old phones) literally 6 phones over 12 year's worth hahaha
damn, and here i wished it had 7950x3d also, to compare if "amd scheduling problem" is the same on both of those
edit: ok, so i guess they retroactivel'y added scheduler to windows 10? whole windows 11 shtick was about making intel p and e-cores stable thanks to scheduling!
Cache-scheduling and P+E-core scheduling is really not the same thing though... Although, yes, E-cores have less cache than P-cores, there are significant differences between the core-types, other than cache. So, win11 scheduler wouldn't necessarily improve things for AMD cpu's.
@@predabot__6778 both are core scheduling, and easiest way to make that would be by grouping them by clock speeds, which x3d cores have lower, same as e-cores
other thing would be if it was defined by hand for every cpu, which would exclude ryzens, but as a programmer, i'd go for more universal approach rather than defining all case by case
with 7950x3d in 90% of the game there is no difference between win10 or 11 because OS use preferred cores for the few game with scheduler issue on both OS download process lasso (it replece task manager and it's much better) or ryzen master add exe file,(you have to do it only the first time) select only first chiplet and voila you have better gaming performance than 7800x3d...
Nice I have been thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 from Windows 11 for awhile now
DO IT
I wonder if disconnecting the pc from the internet changes anything.
Amazing steve, great job. Would love to a see a comprehensive video that optimizes a new PC from scratch. (Bios, Windows, AMD/Nvidia GPU and CPU settings, etc.) on average.
This is the result putting many bullshit unwanted software such as copilot running on the background.
Copilot doesn't run by default on windows 11
I would have liked to know, only for games that had a significant difference, what the average and peak CPU and GPU clock speeds were and maybe what the idle windows utilisation of CPU and memory was on all the systems. In any case a very interesting experiment and I'd say surprising results. Thanks for the time spent!
so is this nvidia drivers or the OS? imho you need some AMD data as well just to make sure we are seeing what we're seeing.
@@Kristjan_N I highly suspect he used the same driver version for both. If that driver performs differently between OS versions, than is exactly what this test is meant to highlight.
Nvidia's driver problem has been around for a long time, but no one wants to talk about these problems for some reason
@@CLV. what driver problem are you referring to?
@@sphbecker Nvidia's driver has higher CPU overhead then AMDs because Nvidia handles some thing in software that AMD has a hardware block for.
@@andersjjensen nvidia patched the high CPU bug months ago. If you claim is true, then that is not a driver issue or bug, that is by design.
Well in 2025 we will be forced to go for W11, but tbh it's a lot better than it was in the past. I was staying in W10 to this day, but trying W11 is nice, the only minus was that annoying windows tab. Also they announcent an W11 update for Zen3-5 performance increased
Excellent timing. I have been wondering about replacing W10 with a lightweight W11 installation.
both Win 10 and Win 11 perform the same after a debloat
It dozen matter. If you debloat Windows 11, you will get Windows 10 performance. The vanilla experience is what actually holding it baxk. 🤷🏻♀️
Both suck. Win 11 just sucks more
You'd have to pay me to use 11's abhorrent interface
@@TheJohn_Highway Dead right hours of manipulation to be still unhappy with its layout, especially the start menu
W11 22h2 was very nice, just smooth and snappy. I could see with a naked eye 23h2 slowing down my desktop interface and I'm on a 12700. You can investigate that for the difference
Intel gen 14 before or after nerf?
After nerf
@@genericyoutubeaccount579 always been nerfed, just more nerfed now 😂😂
@@JohnWiku Explain?
Buildzoid showed there is no real Nerf.
It's a 14700k. Much lower chance of degradation than with the 13900 or 14900. Also, not all chips are prone to the issues. You won't notice it if the processor is new.
would love to see this vid with the new Windows Update
OK, I did extended testing (7800X3D RTX4090) with my system and I have the following conclusions:
a) Steve didn't turn off Core Isolation successfully
or/and
b) Windows 11 24H2 is significantly faster than Windows 11 23H2
or/and
c) Shader cache was not fully compiled on one of the systems
I've tested CP2077, Plague Tale Requiem and The Witcher 3 (with RT). All tests at 1080P fully CPU bound. All the results are on my TW account. Windows 11 is as fast as Windows 10. The difference is often 1-2fps (always in favor of W11 except 1%lows
in CP2077).
how much worse are 1% lows?
As of today, we now know that b) is true
@@andred.2335 is it recommended to upgrade to 24h2?
@@PenguinsAreColdish I would say 4-5fps typically in-game and 10-15fps in benchmark
@@gametest8426 damn, october 10th can't come soon enough. are you saying the 1% lows are better in windows 10 for cyberpunk?
Hey! Is your arctic liquid freezer iii pump loud?
Just got mine and it’s louder than the fans sadly.
Hey, any plan of doing VR benchmarks? It would have been great in this case
It's a very small niche 😅
@@federicocatelli8785 That's true haha, but it's pretty hard to find a comparison without any bias or bad testing conditions
@@federicocatelli8785 15 mil peeps fly in MSFS2020 and in November MSFS2024 that even has better VR so not so niche soon....
avoid Windows 11 Version 24H2 because that will have native OpenXR WMR runtime stripped so no more VR with HP G2 and other headset that uses that native build in VR. That's why I'm sticking to Win11 version 22H2
What if I am using Valve Index? Should be no problem when not using mixed reality stuff or am I overlooking something? @@SparkySven
Thanks for this! Perfect length!
My only request was to consider mainstream Core i5 or Ryzen CPUs too.
Would be interesting if the same behavior is seen with an AMD and/or Intel GPU.
They don't, because they DON'T LIKE Linux. It's worse in that to some extent they're right to not do the test, at least for some time: they will NOT know how to test or what to look for or how the differences "could be" something they, not knowing Linux, are causing to happen or hiding from happening, and not for some time. They would have to get someone who does gaming on Linux to work with them, either paying them or collaborating with them to earn that time off the Linux guru who knows how to find out what could be "wrong" with their setup. Wendell could possibly do it, but he's got server work so well paid to do, and I don't really know that they know anyone else well enough to even ask for help. It is therefore a chicken-and-egg problem. Until they spend many actual hours slaving away testing and doing work on gaming Linux, which means less work on Windows that they can display as a video and make mucho dinero off, they can't DO anything with what they find because the problem, if they find it, may be PEBKAC, and if they don't find a problem, it may be PEBKAC again hiding it, either making the Linux appear worse than it is, or hiding the problem that makes it worse.
That and several of the games they WANT to play are unavailable on Linux, often because the anti-cheat requires ring-0 access and a direct hole they are told how to exploit FOR THAT KERNEL. Others they dropped because Windows doesn't play them any more, but they do under Linux, yet will never find out because they have dropped that game already, and you can't miss what you don't bother looking for.
@@markhackett2302you just replied to a comment about AMD/Intel with a wall of text about Linux. Click the wrong comment perhaps??
@@markhackett2302 Linux users are insufferable
@@markhackett2302 nevermind Linux isn't suitable for the average user, it's also a bitch to compare since there are so many possible versions.
IMO it makes sense to test with the default Out Of The Box settings of both OS' as that will be the experience for most people.
Like many, I would also like to see some Linux tests. Can be a multi-part series about setting it up etc.
It's time...
Thanks Steve!
This may need revisiting with AMD and the Windows 11 24H2 update
Could you please do this test with windows 11 24h2 vs windows 10? to verify the AMD extra performance in this new Windows 11 version.
Weird, I remember at one point ryzen cpus were consistently faster on windows 11 in your testing.
Windows 7 is best for Ryzen
windows 11 gets larger and more bloated with every update.
even a fresh installation feels slow and unresponsive compared to W10.
New A.I. stuffs being added. 🤷🏻♀️
@@JakiyyyyyCo pilot 🤢
@@Jakiyyyyy just turn it off in services, when you dont need it.
didnt w11 have a keylogger? maybe recording all your inputs in the background is the reason for this. but i would like to know what part of the game is allowing it to run better while other games are unaffected by the w11
Perfect timing for the video! thanks
Nice video. Any chance we could get a followup where you benchmark 4k instead of 1080? Just curious if it would make a difference
As someone who's been using Bazzite for a couple of months already, personally I see absolutely no reason to go back to either Win10 or 11 for gaming. Linux has come a long way over the past years, mostly due to Valve's involvement, and it only lacks support for a few competitive games, mostly due to the required anti cheat systems being incompatible.
Yep, I'm on Bazzite and have a 20 fps increase in some games. I have an all AMD rig, and it's pretty powerful. HDR is ready so far, and I just bought myself an MSI quantum dot oled gaming monitor, and it's stunning. The only thing left is in-game HDR for all games. Also, I can max out the monitor to the 1000nits peak mode and max the color gamut to rec2020. Looks gorgeous, and I will never go back to Windows.
I really cheer it that you have ACC in the benchmarks for a while now👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Can you try disabling virtualization support in bios and check if W11 perf is getting better, I bet disabling Core Isolation works differently in W11 and W10. Was TPM enabled for W10? It’s enabled and required for W11.
Interesting is also that for the other games than cyberpunk phantom the fps could be said is measure tolerance BUT everytime its the 1 to 2 fps slower on win11. So probably not measuring tolerance at the end of the day