Not to mention the fact that AMD has been beating Intel while Intel has an R&D budget of $15+ billion while for the MAJORITY of the Ryzen era, AMD's R&D budget was less than $2 billion....quite literally, Intel had and has every financial advantage conceivable and AMD has still been cleaning their clock
Remember Intel denying that Intel Compiler executable was slowing AMD chips but yet they tried to hunt down the enthusiasts who modified it to make Intel Compiler Patcher to bypass the performance crippling on AMD chips?
@@wolfboy20 a group of enthusiasts within a hardware community actually made a mod for the Intel Compiler called Intel Compiler Patcher, which all it did was disabling underclocks and core caps on AMD chips at the program. Intel tried to sue them for "hacking" their Intel Compiler illegally, but with Intel previously winning in court at defending AMD's accusation of crippling AMD chips with their Intel Compiler software, and the group who did the mod threatening to call AMD for legal help, Intel backed it down, as they would contradict the previous lawsuit with this one, resulting on reactivating the former in court.
@@polvocorrupto Holy Shit thats Insane!! At least the Modders low key won at the end because Intel would've had to explain their previous lawsuit and then some lol
Yeah that compiler was sneaky. Instead of checking that CPU has SSE/SSE2 etc extensions available and enable SIMD acceleration, it checked also that CPU vendor was Intel and if not wouldn't enable any advanced features.
I think you guys are talking about a different Intel compiler issue to the one I remember in the late 90's early 2000's. Compilers will create multiple code paths depending on what instruction sets are available by checking the CPU. For example a CPU that has AVX instructions uses those instructions and CPUs that don't support AVX call a emulation routine that does the same thing but slower with many more instructions needed. The Intel compiler was looking for the text "Genuine Intel" and only then checked the CPU cabilities, so for AMD they always ran the slow emulation code even though the CPU supported the extended instructions (mostly SSE). A 3rd party created an automatic executable patcher that just searched the intructions and skipped the test for Intel's name and just looked at the CPU capabilities. All of a sudden AMD's CPU's would run the correct code and could be much faster (over 10% for some code) dependant of how frequently those instructions were being used.
@@capta1nseal If Microsoft can't make their operating system work well with AMD after they've been around for decades, I don't think optimization for ARM is something that's going to improve much for many years still. It's not enough of a priority. Then they don't have as closed an environment as Apple, which makes it harder to get third-party apps to work well with ARM. The emulation of x86 isn't something you can rely on right now. Maybe someday?
@@jonathanscherer8567 So, lets bring this point further, then. Say Microsoft removed the cap, Amd profits accelerate, Intel Drops in sales. What happens if intel goes out of business? AMD in non-competing market?
@@wesleypearson7619 Intel is vastly more diversified and worth more than AMD. Just because MS had an even playing field for various types of silicon, ARM included, wouldn't make any one company go out of business. Should MS play favorites then to somehow protect the underdog? When you factor percentage of the market, AMD is still a very, very tiny player. Outside of enthusiasts, most people wouldn't have ever heard of them. While most people would at least have some passing idea of what Intel is.
Microcrap has been doing this forever. Remember how conveniently, they couldn't release Win XP 64 until Intel was ready yet ignored the already released AMD Athlon 64? Yeah, they are not called Wintel for nothing.
It's primarily because more people use Intel, so why wouldn't Microsoft spend more time optimizing for it? Since 71% of laptop CPUs are Intel and 64% of all computers are Intel. Intel doesn't really have anything to do with this it'll Microsoft since Microsoft knows more people use intel
@@n.d.n.e1805 AMD laptops are just better though in every important metric. As far as absolute performance goes Intel is better but it uses literally 2x the power for 10% performance gain. Power efficiency is king on laptops and Intel is behind.
@@theairaccumulator7144 So Lunar Lake doesn't use 50% less power than the previous generation of Intel laptop CPUs? The last time I checked it did. Let me guess: you're also going to say that the Arrow Lake/15th gen uses more power than the 14th gen. The last time I checked, the Ultra Core 285K only uses 250 watts at maximum power draw. This is a desktop CPU with a TDP of 125 watts, while the 9950X can draw 250 watts max and has a TDP of 170 watts. I think 15 Gen is going to have AMD beat at efficiency
Yeah I remember this crap with patches and the dual core opterons. Nothing has changed at all and MS is quickly becoming irrelevant. Their software stack is now replaced with other software.
My 14600K is stable as could be, overclocked, VID table never hits over 1.3v.... the unstable CPU's from intel seem to be fixed/ fixable for those who actually own them. People who don't actually own a 14th gen are just vibing off the hype from people like Nexus Gamers, Reddit, and every other techtuber out there. I am happy with every LGA 1700 chip I own. Furthermore as far as this video goes, there was a windows update after microcode 129 for the intel chips. Like there needs to be an update to windows for these new AMD chips. When new hardware comes out new software needs to be out to support said hardware.
@@jabezhane That's the reason they are trying to kill the Xbox brand. They already wanted to call it Microsoft Game Pass, not Xbox Game Pass. Also, the current Xbox CEO is a scapegoat. So they will kill it anyway since there is ZERO new in "All Brand New Xbox Consoles!".
If this would be true then Microsoft wouldn't use AMD CPUs in their Surface Laptops. The more obvious answer would be AMD releasing unfinished driver again. They pretty often do that. Every time you hear AMD graphics card getting better with a driver update, that's a case where the driver wasn't finished or polished. It seems like it happens to AMD more frequently than for Nvidia.
I have the same processor, but for the last 2 months, the Windows task bar has been constantly freezing and Windows Explorer has stopped responding, and when I look at the task manager, the built-in graphics card of the processor is at 100%. Even if you use Windows 10 or 11 and format a clean Windows, it is the same, Microsoft does this!
I can actually answer why AMD didn't catch this issue with testing: in-depth hardware testing on Windows _requires_ elevated admin privileges. To run all the necessary tests, these companies use custom devices with custom drivers (which are invariably unsigned). For any automated test workflow, running a queue of varied testing protocols on a system without elevated permissions is a non-starter. It would be practically impossible for AMD to see this issue coming because they would have to basically sabotage their testing system to do so. I certainly doubt they expected the OS to actually throttle CPU functionality outside of elevated mode. As for my experience, I was contracted to Nvidia for about a year to set up and troubleshoot setups used to automate GPU hardware tests. We always turned off test-signing requirements and otherwise had the client PCs run with elevated privileges because Windows would prevent our tests from running correctly otherwise (these machines basically had to be as _unsecured_ as possible). P.S. We had to use Windows 11, which seemed fine at first, but then it started preaching about the carbon footprints in the settings while requiring an extra click and mouse movement (or extra keyboard movement) to open the _real_ context menu. This is yet another reason to continue avoiding it.
the dma transfer issues in chipsets were not bugfixed since via kt-66 too - boogy boogy wookie - they will come back every time and then they are screaming " hold the thief " against otherones... ...why ? market sellers telling lies to sell their shit
Every windows above 7 is garbage. And they know it, that's why they are making software block for windows 7. A lot of newer software comes with software block for 7. I never saw it in 30 years, until 2018 you were still able to run windows 95 and windows XP with basically EVERY SOFTWARE. After 2020 they started the software blocks on windows 7, until 2022 you were still able to edit a single file and the software would run normally on windows 7, no crashes, bugs, nothing. But now they updated the malware they use to block windows 7, so it is basically impossible to make it work. And most up-to-date compilers will automatically block windows 7. Their newer OS are so garbage they need to block windows 7 to have a real number of users.
@@lucasljs1545 Yup I saw the writing on the wall when there was a cutoff date for windows 7 support on anything chromium based and sadly had to bid it farewell. Otherwise I still would've used it.
@@AdamFJH You can pretty much game on Linux now, save for a few outliers. For me those are RDR2, Only Up, Xenia emulator, and maybe one or two others, can't remember.
Remember how Microsoft would intentionally make software run slower in Windows so they could buy them out add them to Microsoft line up. So no it doesn't surprise me at all.
It is called Wintel for a reason folks, they have been in bed together since the days of Win 3.x and there is plenty of posts from ex Intel coders saying they ended up doing a lot of Windows low level work for MSFT on behalf of Intel.
You don't think Microsoft also sabotaged the versions of DOS that weren't Microsoft by making Windows 95(I believe) show a BS error during the Windows installation, do? They would have had to encrypt a section of the OS to hide a simple check that masked itself as an error, they wouldn't do that at all, much less go through the added effort to suspiciously hide their tracks like that, right??
With dropped support for any computer more than a few years old they're already setting up to drive people away in droves, they really are forcing people to switch.
I switched to Mac that the problem Why does M1 runs better than my old gaming Laptop in everything mostly ge72mvr pro that the laptop that is was out-beaten from January 2017 when is made macbook pro m1 16gb from from 2020 ( which i own for £699 ) - First ever Macbook i own No damage to the below it just keys being suck that only the shift key being ( Here my review ) - Old laptop first ge72mvr pro been used for 1 year - Can't much play 3D games without it overheating Fans are always on for nothing GPU always runs at 44c that all the time 256gb M.2 CPU 7th gen runs well GeForce GTX 1070 Unsure about is vram ( Overheats on 3D games even connecting to an Big screen that 1080p that would make it rise to 67c that sometime is even reaches 82c ( Watching 480p to 1080p ) will burn it gpu ( My new Macbook pro M1 2020 - maybe old but at least is meets my standards i can't do Minecraft or Sims 4 even on an laptop that was made for gamers by laptop by Apple can ) 16gb model - ( Runs fine for games is was mostly Sims 4 and Roblox even Minecraft they can drop much but not much as my laptop I never even hear the fines running ( YET ) My mind say ( Don't buy it is was 2nd handed ) my heart says ( Come on is £1000 off is price is was before ) - old but still useable for 2024 as you mostly steam Battery 8-9 hours even longer than 2 hours which my old laptop was able to keep connected to a plug all the time Changing lower on macbook at least is meets my needs an laptop taht don't dies every 1.7 hours needing me to plug it in which my new laptop don't even drain fast
@@Stormlywing Gaming laptops were pure trash before the 30 series. 10 series and below especially were hot garbage. They improved exponentially since 2020 though. You can now get a gaming laptop with PC-like performance in an ultrabook form factor and 8+hr battery life.
Not a problem on linux. Windows has been doing stuff like this forever. Either intentionally or out of sheer incompetence. One of the big reasons I switched.
@@fico1557 for a lot of games, yeah. The only thing holding me back now is Xbox Game Pass and MS Office. Even Roblox is playable on Linux again via Sober.
Vex!! I know why! In order to download the preview build, you need to log into a Microsoft account, but doing so loads all Microsoft settings from all the years you've had the account! This is also why Hardware Unboxed had that "bad install", so AFTER the 24H2 update, LOG OUT of your Microsoft account and run the tests again, after doing this I got the huge increases we saw in Steve's video! Cheers
Oh gosh, that's exactly why I am not using a Microsoft account, and don't really want to. If I do a clean install, I want it to be that and adjust/restore things afterwards. Unless it's opt-in on what to restore, I will avoid logging in..
When I was a kid, I used to hate how Windows gives a lot of bloatware, add that with having an AMD hardware, I've searched on forums that Windows intentionally sabotages AMD hardware. And now this video comes and good thing my hunch was right.
The lows are getting a nice improvement in most of the cases, which is, admittedly, more important than slight regression in average. Still, a clusterf*** of an update
AMD: microsoft! wth? why do you suck with our cpus? MS: we were looking for your corporate christmas gift to us and couldn't find it. intel's was very generous...just sayin...
The official story is Spectre and Meltdown. Speculative Execution and Branch Prediction vulnerabilities were considered high risk and required mitigations which negatively impacts performance of CPUs. The local admin account seems to have a means of bypassing these mitigations, presumably because running as local admin and bypassing all UAC prompts is terribly insecure such that the mitigations are pointless. It is more likely that Intel caught the difference, while AMD running their systems as the local admin did not catch the difference until reviewers did.
@@user78405 "Windows 10 will reach end of support for updates on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10."
It is. There are entire governememtal organisations and enterprises switching to it. And I mean for Linux Desktop, everywhere else Linux has been the winner for a long time now
@@kirby21-xz4rx You say that, but just a couple years ago it was only about 2%, since then, it has more than doubled, yeah, that is only about 4%. As more people use it, more people are going to recommend it.
Rather than Microsoft favoring Intel over AMD it just looks like current programmers aren't as good as old programmers that worked on previous versions of Windows. What makes me think that is just look at how many serious security bugs have been found in the last like 2 years.
To the last point: Or.. there was just more security testing, so more things were discovered. Thing is also, a lot of the clever performance optimizations are susceptible to open up security holes, so perhaps that's just a natural development once more effort goes into software/firmware performance improvements and things become more complex. Don't know if that's actually the case, but that's an alternative take.
@@Erc294 it practicly do support all games just the anticheated one has weird kernel problems plus modding is not that bad only the skyrim and few other that has specific engine build has mod problems tbh. And if you have power of wolf inner will there are tutorials how to make skyrim works but i understand that its not conveniant cause some games are mods require to have good expierence hope more people would dedicate to make them bi for both systems like some mod creators on cyberpunk or gamedev have better support for makin mods for example minecraft practicly every mod works fine despite weird eyetracking bordless etc. Well have a nice day thought man
@@erixIsOffline the anti-cheats don't work on linux because the "anti-cheat" needs to basically HACK your computer, and Linux is too safe for that to happen. It is not that it doesn't work, it is that linux is too safe for it to work.
@@erixIsOfflineso it supports all games but doesnt run as well as windows.. nah ill give linux another 3yrs, switching to linux is clearly still an inconvenience atm (switching to a different OS thats supposed to be better should NOT be an inconvenience, so dont even bring up that argument)
AMD was working for years on zen5. And all this time, they were testing on a version of windows that nobody uses. So when real people started to use zen5 on a production windows, they got different result. Apparently, security features were disabled in this special windows and that is why you got that performance hit. Now, when AMD finally starts testing on normal windows, they can tell MS something is wrong. They can work together to fix it. And MS releases a fix. Or, AMD has been telling MS to fix the bug for 3 years. But they held off for Intel.
Their automated test process likely required the elevated permissions. To your point AMD failed by not testing as a typical user. It’s unlikely they used a special OS as that goes against best practice. I’m sure MS has probably known about the potential impact of this issue for years. MS likely disregarded that feedback without AMD backing it up.
@@davidroberts9099 It goes against best practice to test an approximation of what you want to test. What AMD was testing was something only AMD uses. That is why professionals test what they want to test. It is like using geekbench to show how good your cpu is for gaming or productivity. Most people know that is dumb. I find it difficult to believe that you believe: 1 testing in a mode that no user uses is reliable 2 testing without security that no user uses is reliable 3 that AMD knows more about benchmarking than professional benchmarkers 4 that MS wants windows to be used less in servers with AMD cpus (if you think you didn't claim this, you need a rethink) 5 that after the complete explanation of what likely happened, you still think AMD is in the right and MS is in the wrong
@@Ferdinand208 I think you misread me. I am a professional and familiar with testing for enterprise environments. I’ve been telling off dev’s from testing using admin accounts for decades. It’s a very old issue because it’s an easy way for low skill developers to solve problems. I work in InfoSec in particular. I’ve same had the argument about dev environments needing to match prod for just as long. Many would think AMD should know more about benchmarking. I’ll bet you that benchmarking websites routinely see visits from AMD, Nvidia and Intel. I used gamer tweaks to tune stock trading machines for financial companies. As for Microsoft I have decades of experience working with them commercially. I’ve seen them tank companies they don’t like too many times before. For example back in the Wintel days they were busted in court for doing this. As for what I claim, stick with what I write and not what you insinuate.
"linux users think linux is the best OS, but in reality 70% of people use windows" only a windows user could think that quality is a popularity contest 🐧
@@someone4229Unstable? You are using Linux without even knowing it. Sitting at home on a Windows computer using Linux servers running quietly in the background. I use Windows too and have never really liked using Linux as a desktop but in reality that is not the fault of Linux. Their problem is that all software makers write programs for Windows and nothing for Linux so Linux depends on the community to do it for free and do it well. Currently I'm running Windows 10 and read some really bad news about Windows 11, after 10 I am going 100% Linux since I'm rather shooting myself in the foot than in the head.
and you assume he implied it. But don't worry Microsoft is currently speedrunning a massive Wave of User Migration to Linux with all the fuckery they are pulling off
I have never been a Linux user but Microsoft has steadily been pushing me there ever since Vista. They don't want me as a customer and they will have their wish.
when you are using SQL you will be better in small terms with PostgreSQL and Debian, Arch or Suse - in enterprise you will run straight to big blue and oracle
@@bonkbonk7195 really ? intersting... ...how about the reality to get someone into regression ? oh well poor amd - it will explode like a splash under acme conditions
Underrated comment i hate windows 11 and 10 was already bad but i think people dont care and would go as far as disabling manually each spyware there is after every update like isnt this a sissyphus than im donald trump
@@FrankBailey-mg9uo if you dont like linux dont use it, I dont like intel cpus but it doenst mean i cant appreciate the ARC/XE gpus for waht they are so i dont know stop being sad and get a beatiful girlfriend my guy
@@erixIsOfflineI rather that than install a f*cking virtual machine for simple *ss software... Also removing bloatware on win 11 is easy... just pick UK installation? Duh?
Welcome to the gang, ignore stupid people that thinks they're gods and read a lot of forums, you can really daily drive linux easily, I'm daily driving around 8 years and still rocking!
@@Disturbed_faceI don't get whats wrong with reading forums, perhaps you can rephrase your question. The people reading forums are likely to help others or find help
Running as administrator disables "Virtualisation Based Security", where windows tries to run everything in a VM, so that it can gain the same sandboxing ability Linux does via Containers.... as a result, of running in VBS, the code would be running in a VM, and not directly on the CPU, so low level CPU features/enhancements probably would be unable to function as well as expected. I'm kinda in awe that the Administrator account, the account that MOST needs security, disables the sandboxing... go figure.
Not necessarily on your last point. I would argue that users using such an account, well-hidden and with maximum privileges, (would) know what they are doing and does not benefit from the security provided by virtualisation. If an average user uses said account and they screwed something up, that's on them.
@@RusticKey I realise there are no recent stats, and those are hard to get, but it wasn't too long ago that it was let slip that the percentage of windows users who run as administrator all the time is quite high... so while I'd love to agree with you, I know it's a complex topic.
@@JamesLewis I understand. Most users would mindlessly run administrator because so many things require elevated permissions, but still the administrator account discussed here has a lot more privileges than a faux "administrator" account most users have.
You know, I am SO glad that I'm still on Windows 10. I only change Windows versions when I'm FORCED to. Hell, if I had my way, I'd still be using W7. I took one look at W8 and said "Oh HELL NO!". To date, I've never used it on any of my own PCs. I tried using it on my sister's craptop and, while I was able to use it, I absolutely HATED it.
@@AvroBellow That’s the thing, you absolutely have to due to end of support, which means that desktops with “obsolete” hardware encounter a hardware dead end imposed by unoptimised and badly made Windows 11 and further. Solution? Just install Debian, lol.
@@theunknownbeeza1632 ik what you mean my laptop that has 8gb it is win 10 has a month ago update that took 4.7 gb for no reasone and recently it got normal but god damn whole month i got less stable and stuttery computer XD
@@theunknownbeeza1632 How would that even be possible? Answer, it isn't - if it was, you'd be able to destroy memory just by running ordinary program code on the CPU, which would obviously be disastrous from a reliability/security standpoint. No, your stick was either already bad, and you simply happened to realize it now, or it was an accidental coincidence that it broke in conjunction with you installing this update.
@lennyvalentin6485 all I know is that... pc was working fine... got an update... after update pc started blue screening in-game and even just while browsing RUclips... so troubleshooting narrowed it down to one dimm stick being faulty.
Well, funny enough my roommate is using an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, and the updated version of 23H2 did make a difference in gaming performance in every game he plays for the most part. Thing is, the performance is already so good in the games he plays, he had to measure the differences before and after. He did get anywhere from 5-10% uplift in performance, and strangely enough, his actual Windows experience over all just seems snappier.
WIntel used to be a thing and probably still is. Microsoft goes out of their way to optimize for Intel CPUs, like when they introduced hyperthreading in the P4 era and the latest P and E core architectures. However AMD is always an afterthought for some reason.
4:16 That's crazy. I spent 20 minutes searching through the update notes of 23H2 looking for information regarding Ryzen 7000 and 9000 series processors and Vex pointed that out. It's sus behavior
I mean look at what happened when 12th Gen first came out from Intel, they worked hand in hand with Microsoft and would even say Windows 11 runs best with Intel
Check if VBS / Memory Integrity is enabled on 24H2. It was enabled on mine before I did the update and now its off (I didnt touch it) , that gives a performance increase on its own.
Tortious interference, also known as intentional interference with contractual relations, in the common law of torts, occurs when one person intentionally damages someone else's contractual or business relationships with a third party, causing economic harm.
intel probably threatened microsoft . its not unheard of as during the athlon phenom and fx days intel threatened oems that they would raise shipping costs if they used amd cpus which is why back then so many oem pcs and laptops with amd parts were just worse quality
@@Shahzad12357 best choice or a meh. The processors are still decent. And with mobo combo at micro center it’s $50 more then 7700x one. So not a massive loss of performance doesn’t change.
my guy those might not be the greatest for gaming but if you play a game where you as host share your world aka you hosting world of example garrys mod map or doing some workloads like editing video or blender these cpus are great especially cause they have more than 20procent up lift in those area and fact they are much cooler on avg than 7000 can be a great pc for low power usage i myself think to build server with one cause this prediction branch works much better on linux than on windows and some website that shares data benchmarks for data servers showed improvment over 7800x3d in data transfering as well as 43 (3 images more) than intel 14900K in generative AI
Homie, they're just bad. This isn't any Intel Arc situation, AMD just fucked up, they made better productivity CPUs, and marketed them as better for gaming than the previous gen. If they get better, then just buy one at that point. Don't waste your money hoping the value on these CPUs goes up, don't play stocks with your CPU purchase. Imagine someone said the same about 11th gen intel a few years ago, that they believe the performance is gonna go up. Your money, your decision, but I can assure you these chips' performance is gonna stay as is.
Wow, I bet this is the tip of the iceberg. Companies paying MS to screw over the competition. And the fact that your card was like that after reinstalling drivers is scary!
@@Elvyne One of my first builds was AMD, great system. Gold bin CPU zero issues. New AMD GPU drives i have heard nothing but problems with them. Crashing inconsistencies and all around just poorly designed.
@@thespia9132 they do crash here and there...but the features and the overall package is topshelf now. it really does bring the whole driver package together better then nvidia does at the moment... if you have custom overclocks save the file...then when the drivers drop here and there just import the file. the 6000 and cheaper 7000 series gpu are a great buy.
@@thespia9132it's probably both from Microsoft and AMD, if AMD did their best but Microsoft ruined it, it would still be bad. Same as vice versa however this looks too odd since it happened when Intel is screwed
@@Disturbed_face i wonder why those stupid market sellers discussing about one frame more when he could stand only in one at the same time in its casper theatre... #idontuseamd #dmashit
*HEY*!!! no fair, us Linux users don't need meds! mostly. sometimes :P but yeah, stuff like this is the reason i switched to Linux Mint, and i'm hella happy where i am awesome work Vex, this must have taken a ton of effort - good job. dunno about regressions, GPU drivers not being ready for the beta branch and core scheduling across dual CCDs on Zen 3 maybe? seems damn weird. i guess that's why it's a beta branch tho, not the main fork
Oh man, linux mint is so nice. It's the windows of the linux world. Everything works out of the box, and you rarely ever need to use the terminal. No dealing with corporate decisions like in windows either
@@anarchicnerd666you could use something like debian with xfce(low usage, good for some) or arch. If you don't like the installing process of arch, use archinstall... Just make sure not to tell any arch user.
I would love to see a comparison between windows 11 and Linux based systems. I guess there could be a notable difference based on the compatibility layer. I mean, the performance hit could be directly on windows and not in linux.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat it's like going to a Camping truck event where people bring their fourrunners and Ranger and jeep builds and someone gets their cyber truck stuck in a puddle
World of Warcraft "feels" quite a lot choppier after the update on my 7990X3D. Don't have any actual performance numbers to give though, since so much depends not just on location but also number of nearby players, viewing angles etc etc. So, GG Blizz? :P
@@lennyvalentin6485 I don't think this is an AMD problem and its more of a blizzard problem. Ever since Dragonflight the game has ran way worse for me on intel as well. It seems to only be in any new zones. Any zones pre-dragonflight run buttery smooth, but in Valdrakken and parts of the ringing deeps I get frame dips galore.
@@Manicfuguestate Yes, I have seen the same in the new zones since DF, but even so, the dips (more like outright stuttering/hitches) "feel" much worse now, after the update. It's like, bad, stacked on top of more bad. :/
@@Manicfuguestate Hopefully Blizz can do something about it, it's not the CPU cores getting maxed out or anything like that. I've checked task manager, none of the cores are even close to bottlenecking when the FPS is tanking bigtime. It's really weird. Part of the FPS problem probably is because I had to turn off "advanced work submit" under graphics/compatibility settings, or the AMD Radeon driver would crash/reset A LOT. Several times an hour sometimes, it was making the game nearly unplayable at times. Even so, I still get the odd driver reset now and then. :P So the stuttering could be a GPU resource management issue (like textures getting flushed from GPU memory when they shouldn't, and then have to be re-copied etc) rather than being CPU-related, but then why would it get worse after the windows patch? *shrug* (If it ever actually did! lol Maybe it's just in my head - I don't actually have any framerate/framedrop statistics.) I will update the GPU driver to the latest public version soon and turn the "advanced work submit" option back on and see if anything's changed. Probably not! :D
As 14 years user of AMD (Dec 1999-2014), and 10 years (2014-2024) user of Intel: There was a time when I thought Microsoft owned Intel, because everything was so much so integrated for Intel Here is always an issue that I see here, and that is very much a solution to a situation: You have AMD not being respected by Microsoft, because of close ties with Intel, unfortunate for AMD, but cool just accept it, you have couple of options as AMD: 1) Accept it 2) Find a better relationship with Microsoft to allow Microsoft to write your architecture into their operating systems 3) Make your own Operating System like Linux, but by AMD Yeah, sure, the implementation will be something of a mountain climb, but you can make an operating system favoring your CPU and you can do it in-house. The problem of course is that many game developers will not develop on your independent OS, but considering that AMD has been around since 1969, you could have made an OS by now, and have a system that favors you. Slowly others would accept your OS platform, but for what...for 25 years you realize that OS will never even have even playing field, well...that's on you for not putting in the effort. Operating system implementation is tough, and it took years for Linux to even play games properly, but it is too much of "programmer heaven" and not so much a "consumer heaven" I like Ubuntu, but not for my every day driver, because it requires a ton of knowledge in kernels, and interface is tough to master. OS needs to be easily accessible even by a 10-12 year old, and AMD can do it, and they should. Will they? Probably not.
Money. Money is the only key, I can give you an example: In Russia we have MCSt, company who manifactures processors on their unique architecture, and it really fires sometimes, but instead of helping developing really perspective things government really only wants to steal people's money and put them to the war. But when they got financial credit in 2016 they made a processor that was comparable with intel core 1st and 2nd gen, what they could possibly make if they had money of 1 month of the war.
uuuh those via chipsets - there was a time where i ripped off the board from abit and smashed it with the kacklon in the face of the market seller trash from the beginning those amd cpu without own mainboards - those " division of nine " is at the end with their latin to fix hardwarebugs with patches which never helped in the base problem. those kiddies should buy a computer from fisher price
I have a Ryzen 7 7800x3D processor, but for the last 2 months, the Windows taskbar has been constantly freezing and Windows Explorer is not responding, and when I look at the task manager, the processor's internal graphics card is at 100%. Whether you use Windows 10/11 or format a clean Windows, the situation is the same, Microsoft does this! This is Wintel collaboration!
I swear, choosing the R7-5800X3D route over AM5 was one of the best decisions that I've ever made! Also choosing to stic with W10 instead of W11 has also panned out nicely!
If true, just showcases how Intel always needs someone to push favourites. Remember Dell? The lawsuit? How about the time intel literally paid some programmers for their "multithreaded" programs to only work if an intel chip is detected. Leaving slower performance when you had AMD dual cores.
Malice isn't likely. I think it's likely a big that was accidentally introduced when Microsoft rewrote big chunks of the scheduler for 12th gen. Big.LITTLE is a new thing for x86, and it had a rocky start. Intel knee-jerk disabled AVX512 in 12th gen most likely because the MS scheduler was unable to cope with different institution capabilities and they couldn't fix it in time. 12th gen is also asynchronous. The cores run at wildly different speeds. This is a big issue in some applications. Going back a long long time, but on my celeron 333/433@83fsb, red faction had some hilarious quirks due to the different speeds. Xp mostly resolved it, but it is still a potential issue when threads depend on each other and they run at different speeds. 12th gen is also a homogeneous chip. It is one cluster of cores sharing a ring bus. So MS went ahead and did a bunch of optimisation for Intel, who are only about 80% of the market, and probably accidentally deoptimised AMDs more classic northbridge(io die) + 2 sockets (chiplets) multicore architecture. It's also worth noting that the Intel compiler is popular and obviously optimised for Intel. AMD, due to their market share have probably needed to prod MS from time to time for AMD optimisations for decades. They'd be well aware of that, and apparently forgot to compare builds for regressions. Basically, I think it's most likely a programming accident rather than malice.
AND thats a good comment, nothing like "omg amd sucks is bad they dont know waht to do and cant even program a damn straight" actually wonder if somebody would have more logical explanation on topic not like windows by itself isnt kinda bad in my opinion but seeing it having problem to keep their market is nice to see some people trying to have genuine analyse of the topic rather than emotionally trying to gaslight others people into their believes
Logical post. I have an odd suspicion some of the simpletons claiming malice have never actually written a program in their lives; optimization is not something you get perfect on the first, tenth, or possibly hundredth revision, and Windows has to deal with a laundry list of hardware configurations.
I would agree malics is very unlikely Microsoft knows that Linux and Apple are getting stronger. For them it makes no difference if you have an Amd or Intel cpu or even an arm cpu, they just want you to use windows. It is also much more complicated to optimize (or deoptimide if you want so) things in an operating system so deep down at the cpu than most of us probably think. When you change something it might improve it for one device but make it worse for others and that is a tight balance they have to look at
28:37 look at the footage, the GPU usage and wattage with the KB5041587 patch was significantly higher, and it looks like the textures that were loaded are significantly higher quality, may it be possible that datastreaming to the GPU is improved because of CPU improvements, and it's causing the GPU to have to work harder.
good point tbh nvidia has a overhead problem so maybe it will improve this things a bit, i personally dont use nvidia products but lack of tech like SAM on those graphics card is hurtfull for older gen cpus from amd from waht i saw in past
@@erixIsOfflineI could swear that the Nvidia 4080 has SAM, because SAM is just ReBAR and everyone has ReBAR now. Same way that RTX is just a fancy way of saying Ray Tracing, and everyone has Ray Tracing now. Right?
@@levygaming3133 SAM is rebar but rebar isn't SAM also arc doesnt have rebar so technicly you right but the way NVIDIA and AMD use those is different cause you can use SAM on 5000 series of Radeon which doenst support rebar from what i Heard unless i'm wrong
@@erixIsOffline arc doesn’t just have rebar, doesn’t it outright need rebar to even function? But yeah, I think I heard the number of games Nvidia actually takes advantage of ReBAR in is fairly small.
Intel used to be and still is a major user (not only for regular consumers). Games developers don't care about AMD GPUs, either. All current games are made for Nvidia, so there is no need to update the GPU drives. AMD does the driver updates because they have 15% of the market. Arc GPUs do the updates because the games are published broken for Arc.
People are forgetting, these improvements and regressions are also effectively BETA scope in their implementation. Microsoft only released the 23h2 update with so of the 24h2 changes, after all the hype and publicity. I'd argue both need a good few mobo (entire suite) chipset and 2-6 months ahead worth of gfx driver updates before we see less/eliminated regression, and also to give all the devs time to work with the changes, as it is we're effectively using software too new with some changes to how it'd utilizing hardware all around, without the other supporting eco system's software having caught up yet. Just my opinion. 24h2 runs nicely on my 7900xt/7700x - but I'd go as far as saying we have yet to see the culmination of it all, which may take more time.
Have you consider disabling MS Defender? As a QA who have to run performance testing for desktop app on Windows, It's the first thing I turn off. MS Defender can decide to run it's anti malware program at odd time and mess up my test results. I also have odd performance problems with Windows from a cold boot and disable the Defender can resolve the issue.
Why doesnt windows just make a "gaming" version, of it or smth, with less bloatware and some good settings for background programs, power plan etc.. I mean there is already so many tools to optimize windows , where you can acess many hidden options to configure many stuff that slow the system down etc.. I guess no1 really buys windows, so Microsoft doesnt feel like putting effort in it or smth ? Btw, for me the update gave 0% improvement in CS2 on R5 7600. So what now, we wait for system updates , for 10% fps on a specific game per update ? When is CS2 preformance update for zen4 coming out ? 🤣
i thinking there gonna be another edition after the pro and home....but i am pretty sure they gonna revamp the home edition that design only for gamers in mind while pro edition gonna be replace with workstation edition that shouldn't be called pro...the new home edition gonna have same unified kernel and hypervisor driver that share with xbox os..same code based that make it easier for game dev to make good ports from pc to xbox...
@@slimal1They hardly make any money from individuals willingly buying Windows now. They earn from laptop companies that preinstall windows with license into their models. They also earn a lot more from people that pirate their OS by selling their data. They make profits even if you pirate it.
@@slimal1 “They should make windows more affordable” ? Microsoft mostly hands windows out for free nowadays, how much more affordable can you get, mailing hundred dollar bills with free windows CDs? Pretty sure the last version of windows they charged money for was the upgrade from pre-Win-7 to Win-7.
1:35 I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux,” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
Win10 and especially Win10 LTSC (IoT for support until 2032) is less problematic and more stable than Win11, but Win11 LTSC tends to have slightly better gaming performance if you have relatively recent system parts. Its up to you which is preferable, but personally I would take a more stable OS with less telemetry "features" over one that has slightly better performance. Also, Win11 updates can change your system settings and even potentially BIOS settings without your consent. That's a big no-no for me.
@@savagej4y241 I upgraded from LTSC 21H2 to LTSC 24H2 recently by a clean install. My system has a Ryzen 5600, and I have not noticed a difference really, other than how they finally fixed how Windows handle multiple monitors with different refresh rates.
This is as old as Windows XP and Athlon 64/P4, you can caulk it up to AMD dropping the ball on working with Windows. Keep in mind Intel still has a massively larger teams working on the same things AMD does, even after recent layoffs. Then if i remember right, Intel also maliciously "helped" Windows run worse for anything multi threaded that was not Intel on XP SP1 with Pentium 4 HT. Nvidia and Intel seem to have the same strategy's at times
True like i believe windows just doesnt give a damn and when amd was testing thiis cpus in administratior with makes sense from development sight i think windows probably was like UUU nice we will slap that into our spyware and will see waht happen like on linux 9000 was actually faster and you have perf penalty due to proton layer emulation yet you do have this improvement like its crazy especiallly since they were working from day one with all the features as they should and yet windows performs worse despise having much more work do to in background still loosing in games where proton barely was able to give good avg not talikng about 1procent... DAMN...
@@HanSolo__ They dont, with money. I work in the field, most ppl just do their tickets and that's it, agile does the rest. Once the employee loses his felt responsibility it becomes just a job. I guess they dont communicate because there are deciders and people making it too hard to take responsibility, even if it is paid for and wanted by the product owner. Literally watched projects being split up into completely disfunctional work groups and then being exorcised for multiple years when fewer people could have done it faster and with much better quality. It is not that many cooks ruin the soup as we say in germany, it is that you need the skill to manage that many cooks. In "The Art of War" it is written that the amount of men is not the decisive factor, how you split them up and coordinate really is.
Do you even Remember the 7000 launch? "What the 5800x3d is just as fast as the 7700x. 7000 is botched and shit and stuff and meh" Now most people are recommending 7800x3d. What the hell. Wait for 9800x3d. How about that before jumping to premature conclusions? God society is really bad at this game.
@user-vs5ux6dc8o chill lmao, I'm not the one jumping to conclusions. 9000 series wasn't a terrible launch in my opinion. I was saying it's already not really attractive for most people because they're probably waiting for X3D parts, and the excitement only got stiffled more by underwhelming performance caused by Windows issues
@@DrathVader tbh most people who cares about gaming would buy x3d versions anyways and some who cares about workload would buy normal x variants the probelem is amd as every other hardware company lies a lot and people always says (and i mean literally not so long ago people were saying zen3 is better than zen4) last gen more value than new bullshit unleast amd gets that treatment and even if they would work greater than now people forgot how much better those baked cpus with old designs can uplift performance in some areas massivly bad we as humans tend to focuses to much on bad rather than point a true evil and appreciate those good. Just wanted to say that sorry for @ you, have a nice day :)
Steam Deck could be a sort of precedent? I mean, they use an Customize Linux OS, so maybe they could make an colaboration with AMD and make a new OS for a Steam Deck 3 or similar.
The term 'malware' was first coined in 1990, and it's been a growing threat ever since. With attacks becoming more sophisticated, network security has never been more critical.
MALL WARE - another Term for mass products out of the souper market the classifications are clear defined in RFC's - go and get some knowledge about trashy Realt(r)ekkies
Fr. Plus I'm fairly certain this is not intentional. Intel has been running on Windows since its inception so I'm not particularly suprised intel knows the ins and outs of it. Even when zen 2 was out infinity fabric wasn't perfect and the fclk ratio had to be very specific. Intel never has this problem and similarly it's the same situation with RAM. Intel doesn't change much with the RAM whereas it's kind of vital on AMD.
This exactly! I've been hearing this story for over 20 years. Intel as the big evil corporation and AMD as the scrappy underdog who loves gamers and puppies but just doesn't get a break. It's rediculous. LTT is a big contributor to this as well.
@@Doflaminguard Oh yeah, forgot how cool and underground you have to be to use AMD. That is ridiculous. Market share of PCs is not the only thing AMD has under its belt, the console deals which have existed for over a decade alone are extremely substantial. Performance wise it's also application specific, but even if they had every aspect of performance dominated CPU wise, they absolutely do not have the GPU performance edge. Plenty of cases where the ratio of performance to total users/market share doesn't represent a particular company; for example, there are plenty of fan manufacturers that wipe the floor with Corsair, such as Fractal Design, but we're talking a literal 2x difference here, not the tit for tat Intel and AMD have been going at. Regardless, the competition between the two is good, it will drive innovation and force Intel and AMD to make better products. To dickride one brand or the other though, is foolish.
@@bloxxylenny I haven't tested it yet (still on Windows), but out of curiocity I've watched many videos about "Nobara", "Garuda", "Fedora 40", "CatchyOS" and they seems to run 90% of the games, except some with anti-cheat.
remember when windows 11 first launched? ryzen was doing significantly worse on 11 compared to 10 then too! there was another bug significantly affecting ryzen performance, but it was considered fixed years ago. ryzen having issues on 11 isn't a new thing, it's been there since the start.
Screaming into the void, but Microsoft isn't picking favorites. Context: Branch prediction at a high level allows the cpu to look ahead in a program and try to predict if it should load in certain parts of a program into cache so that it doesn't have to perform a conditional jump and wait for that part of the program to load in. This is all well and good but this also introduced an unpatchable vulnerability, wherein you can trick the branch predictor to load in certain parts of the program or even the kernel and read them, when you weren't supposed to be able to. The fix for this vulnerability: Microsoft had to tone down the branch predictor by adding permissions checks, introducing a performance cost. Since then Intel and AMD cpus have to work around Microsoft's mitigations for this and for the most part both have figured it out and we're back to pre-mitigation branch prediction performance. Today: One of the ways AMD is able to get more performance out of their CPU is that now instead of only loading in and trying to predict the next conditional instruction it will try and look ahead 2 instructions and load those parts of the program into memory. Again all well and good except that the Windows kernel hasn't caught up to that ability yet. If you were to dig down more and get more technical you can talk about memory tagging and the permissions checking leading to the slowdown but the fact of the matter is double branch prediction is new and the Windows Kernel hadn't caught up. That's also part of the reason why you saw such a massive performance boost on linux, because linux handled spectre/meltdown (the branch prediction vulnerability) differently and thus linux on amd could utilize the double branch prediction to yield the massive performance gain. TL;DR AMD introduced new tech and it took Microsoft some time to catch up, OP is rage-baiting by insinuating that Microsoft is treating intel preferentially even though in the Azure cloud Microsoft considers the EPYC cpu to be higher tier than intel azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/virtual-machines/series/ and cheaper to use. You have earned a dislike for your stupidity
same happend 20 years ago... those amd dma bug is well known and not a problem in design by microsoft - seems to be that amd has not qualified drivers to solve their lousy issues that was the reason why we had in this time only one mainboard with amd opteron for NLE-Workstations for Video Professionals
new Windows logo is really lame
Sup
i like it more than win10 logo even tho its so simple
Indeed..
Real 😭
@@KianFloppa simple ≠ ugly
AMD beating intel with fucking weighted clothes on.
Lol fr
Picolo training arc.
Not to mention the fact that AMD has been beating Intel while Intel has an R&D budget of $15+ billion while for the MAJORITY of the Ryzen era, AMD's R&D budget was less than $2 billion....quite literally, Intel had and has every financial advantage conceivable and AMD has still been cleaning their clock
Not to mention Intel has been the second most subsidised company in in 2023, just behind Boeing, and they're the first this year so far.
@@naervern2107 Intel will be sold off in chunks if their management continues what they have been doing in less than 5 years.
Micro in Microsoft stands for the amount of effort they are doing to optimize their software.
Millennials just suck at coding.
They are the AAA game dev of operating systems
what is amd then. american micro devices
@@xbm41 advanced
Holy shit that's wild😂
Remember Intel denying that Intel Compiler executable was slowing AMD chips but yet they tried to hunt down the enthusiasts who modified it to make Intel Compiler Patcher to bypass the performance crippling on AMD chips?
Im sorry but did they really try to hunt down enthusiasts??? How? Legally??
@@wolfboy20 a group of enthusiasts within a hardware community actually made a mod for the Intel Compiler called Intel Compiler Patcher, which all it did was disabling underclocks and core caps on AMD chips at the program. Intel tried to sue them for "hacking" their Intel Compiler illegally, but with Intel previously winning in court at defending AMD's accusation of crippling AMD chips with their Intel Compiler software, and the group who did the mod threatening to call AMD for legal help, Intel backed it down, as they would contradict the previous lawsuit with this one, resulting on reactivating the former in court.
@@polvocorrupto Holy Shit thats Insane!! At least the Modders low key won at the end because Intel would've had to explain their previous lawsuit and then some lol
Yeah that compiler was sneaky. Instead of checking that CPU has SSE/SSE2 etc extensions available and enable SIMD acceleration, it checked also that CPU vendor was Intel and if not wouldn't enable any advanced features.
I think you guys are talking about a different Intel compiler issue to the one I remember in the late 90's early 2000's.
Compilers will create multiple code paths depending on what instruction sets are available by checking the CPU. For example a CPU that has AVX instructions uses those instructions and CPUs that don't support AVX call a emulation routine that does the same thing but slower with many more instructions needed.
The Intel compiler was looking for the text "Genuine Intel" and only then checked the CPU cabilities, so for AMD they always ran the slow emulation code even though the CPU supported the extended instructions (mostly SSE). A 3rd party created an automatic executable patcher that just searched the intructions and skipped the test for Intel's name and just looked at the CPU capabilities. All of a sudden AMD's CPU's would run the correct code and could be much faster (over 10% for some code) dependant of how frequently those instructions were being used.
Isn't it funny how pretty much every time Microsofts OS accidentally works better on one brands silicon than another, its always intel?
They are trying to monopolize and considering that amd is the only other company that makes processors
@@tobyzilla2.074 *
(Asterisk becoming increasingly important as ARM gains adoption, though still very small for now)
@@capta1nseal If Microsoft can't make their operating system work well with AMD after they've been around for decades, I don't think optimization for ARM is something that's going to improve much for many years still. It's not enough of a priority. Then they don't have as closed an environment as Apple, which makes it harder to get third-party apps to work well with ARM. The emulation of x86 isn't something you can rely on right now. Maybe someday?
@@jonathanscherer8567 So, lets bring this point further, then. Say Microsoft removed the cap, Amd profits accelerate, Intel Drops in sales. What happens if intel goes out of business? AMD in non-competing market?
@@wesleypearson7619 Intel is vastly more diversified and worth more than AMD. Just because MS had an even playing field for various types of silicon, ARM included, wouldn't make any one company go out of business. Should MS play favorites then to somehow protect the underdog? When you factor percentage of the market, AMD is still a very, very tiny player. Outside of enthusiasts, most people wouldn't have ever heard of them. While most people would at least have some passing idea of what Intel is.
Microcrap has been doing this forever.
Remember how conveniently, they couldn't release Win XP 64 until Intel was ready yet ignored the already released AMD Athlon 64?
Yeah, they are not called Wintel for nothing.
It's primarily because more people use Intel, so why wouldn't Microsoft spend more time optimizing for it? Since 71% of laptop CPUs are Intel and 64% of all computers are Intel. Intel doesn't really have anything to do with this it'll Microsoft since Microsoft knows more people use intel
@@n.d.n.e1805 Still wouldn't have stopped them from releasing it anyways.
@@n.d.n.e1805 Still wouldn't have stopped them from releasing it anyways.
@@n.d.n.e1805 AMD laptops are just better though in every important metric. As far as absolute performance goes Intel is better but it uses literally 2x the power for 10% performance gain. Power efficiency is king on laptops and Intel is behind.
@@theairaccumulator7144 So Lunar Lake doesn't use 50% less power than the previous generation of Intel laptop CPUs? The last time I checked it did. Let me guess: you're also going to say that the Arrow Lake/15th gen uses more power than the 14th gen. The last time I checked, the Ultra Core 285K only uses 250 watts at maximum power draw. This is a desktop CPU with a TDP of 125 watts, while the 9950X can draw 250 watts max and has a TDP of 170 watts. I think 15 Gen is going to have AMD beat at efficiency
MOST of you guys are too young to remember..."WinTel", formerly a very commonly used moniker---for a REASON!
Losetel
Windows and Intel go together well for the NSA big data surveillance and Israel.
Yeah I remember this crap with patches and the dual core opterons. Nothing has changed at all and MS is quickly becoming irrelevant. Their software stack is now replaced with other software.
I remember that and it seems like it still applies to this very day!!!!!!
I am too young, can you elaborate what wintel was?
Intel can't get stable CPUs so they decided to use Wintel strategy lol.
huh¿
Dumb
@@thetheoryguy5544 Dumb how?
@@Pleasiotic1 Intel has been making CPU's longer then AMD so It's not that hard see its better optimized for Windows.
My 14600K is stable as could be, overclocked, VID table never hits over 1.3v.... the unstable CPU's from intel seem to be fixed/ fixable for those who actually own them. People who don't actually own a 14th gen are just vibing off the hype from people like Nexus Gamers, Reddit, and every other techtuber out there. I am happy with every LGA 1700 chip I own. Furthermore as far as this video goes, there was a windows update after microcode 129 for the intel chips. Like there needs to be an update to windows for these new AMD chips. When new hardware comes out new software needs to be out to support said hardware.
Microsoft and intel are always working close together. AMD gets second rate service.
Yet technically AMD is a more major partner with MS than Intel...Xbox.
@@jabezhane When it comes to profits, MS going for AMD in that mobile platform.
@@jabezhane That's the reason they are trying to kill the Xbox brand. They already wanted to call it Microsoft Game Pass, not Xbox Game Pass. Also, the current Xbox CEO is a scapegoat. So they will kill it anyway since there is ZERO new in "All Brand New Xbox Consoles!".
second rate service for a second rate chip.
@@jabezhane intel CPUs are in Microsofts surface tablets and laptops
7800x3d is so powerful that it made Intel ask Windows for help, AMD is doing things right
yikes those power fools
If this would be true then Microsoft wouldn't use AMD CPUs in their Surface Laptops.
The more obvious answer would be AMD releasing unfinished driver again. They pretty often do that. Every time you hear AMD graphics card getting better with a driver update, that's a case where the driver wasn't finished or polished. It seems like it happens to AMD more frequently than for Nvidia.
If microsoft didn't provide AMD laptops while most other manufacturers do, then that would raise further suspicion@tety5775
@@tety5775or pair their laptop with amd not limiting the capabilities.
I have the same processor, but for the last 2 months, the Windows task bar has been constantly freezing and Windows Explorer has stopped responding, and when I look at the task manager, the built-in graphics card of the processor is at 100%. Even if you use Windows 10 or 11 and format a clean Windows, it is the same, Microsoft does this!
I can actually answer why AMD didn't catch this issue with testing: in-depth hardware testing on Windows _requires_ elevated admin privileges. To run all the necessary tests, these companies use custom devices with custom drivers (which are invariably unsigned). For any automated test workflow, running a queue of varied testing protocols on a system without elevated permissions is a non-starter. It would be practically impossible for AMD to see this issue coming because they would have to basically sabotage their testing system to do so. I certainly doubt they expected the OS to actually throttle CPU functionality outside of elevated mode.
As for my experience, I was contracted to Nvidia for about a year to set up and troubleshoot setups used to automate GPU hardware tests. We always turned off test-signing requirements and otherwise had the client PCs run with elevated privileges because Windows would prevent our tests from running correctly otherwise (these machines basically had to be as _unsecured_ as possible).
P.S. We had to use Windows 11, which seemed fine at first, but then it started preaching about the carbon footprints in the settings while requiring an extra click and mouse movement (or extra keyboard movement) to open the _real_ context menu. This is yet another reason to continue avoiding it.
the dma transfer issues in chipsets were not bugfixed since via kt-66 too - boogy boogy wookie - they will come back every time and then they are screaming " hold the thief " against otherones...
...why ?
market sellers telling lies to sell their shit
Great point, thanks for the comment!
Microsoft forcing AMD users to become Linux enthusiasts? I see this as an absolute win!
With all the W11 crap and end of Win10 all PC users should migrate to Linux anyway
@@pascaldifolco4611Linux is shit. Unoptimized pile of Garbage. It's like socialism: you like the idea but the implementation is shit.
With linux evolution, there is little to no reason to not use linux as daily driver with amd setup. AMD is linux major patron btw
@@pascaldifolco4611 if only linux wasn't still ass and simple things just worked out of the box.
What windows is doing is wrong but Linux is just dogshit@@uret2
I've said it from day one. Windows 11 was specifically written for Intel 12th gen
And i was saying my friend taht its garbage and they only make me believe with every update more my little theory lol
using alder lake with macos as mainly driver xd windows 11 is a festival of bugs and glitches
Win 11 and recent Intels are garbage.
Every windows above 7 is garbage. And they know it, that's why they are making software block for windows 7. A lot of newer software comes with software block for 7.
I never saw it in 30 years, until 2018 you were still able to run windows 95 and windows XP with basically EVERY SOFTWARE. After 2020 they started the software blocks on windows 7, until 2022 you were still able to edit a single file and the software would run normally on windows 7, no crashes, bugs, nothing. But now they updated the malware they use to block windows 7, so it is basically impossible to make it work. And most up-to-date compilers will automatically block windows 7.
Their newer OS are so garbage they need to block windows 7 to have a real number of users.
@@lucasljs1545 Yup I saw the writing on the wall when there was a cutoff date for windows 7 support on anything chromium based and sadly had to bid it farewell. Otherwise I still would've used it.
Microsoft: We made our OS worse so that people can switch to Linux.
I decided to jump to Linux for most things except gaming 7 years ago.
I literally did that today. Installed Fedora for dev work.
@@AdamFJH You can pretty much game on Linux now, save for a few outliers. For me those are RDR2, Only Up, Xenia emulator, and maybe one or two others, can't remember.
how many hidden accounts are there ..
Remember how Microsoft would intentionally make software run slower in Windows so they could buy them out add them to Microsoft line up. So no it doesn't surprise me at all.
It is called Wintel for a reason folks, they have been in bed together since the days of Win 3.x and there is plenty of posts from ex Intel coders saying they ended up doing a lot of Windows low level work for MSFT on behalf of Intel.
And if you try calling that out, you're a CCP agent. Looking to unify China once and for all.
You don't think Microsoft also sabotaged the versions of DOS that weren't Microsoft by making Windows 95(I believe) show a BS error during the Windows installation, do? They would have had to encrypt a section of the OS to hide a simple check that masked itself as an error, they wouldn't do that at all, much less go through the added effort to suspiciously hide their tracks like that, right??
They're really speedrunning on making their customers change to linux huh.
With dropped support for any computer more than a few years old they're already setting up to drive people away in droves, they really are forcing people to switch.
I switched to Mac that the problem
Why does M1 runs better than my old gaming Laptop in everything mostly
ge72mvr pro that the laptop that is was out-beaten from January 2017 when is made
macbook pro m1 16gb from from 2020 ( which i own for £699 ) - First ever Macbook i own
No damage to the below it just keys being suck that only the shift key being
( Here my review ) - Old laptop first
ge72mvr pro been used for 1 year - Can't much play 3D games without it overheating
Fans are always on for nothing
GPU always runs at 44c that all the time
256gb M.2
CPU 7th gen runs well
GeForce GTX 1070 Unsure about is vram ( Overheats on 3D games even connecting to an Big screen that 1080p that would make it rise to 67c that sometime is even reaches 82c
( Watching 480p to 1080p ) will burn it gpu
( My new Macbook pro M1 2020 - maybe old but at least is meets my standards i can't do Minecraft or Sims 4 even on an laptop that was made for gamers by laptop by Apple can )
16gb model - ( Runs fine for games is was mostly Sims 4 and Roblox even Minecraft they can drop much but not much as my laptop
I never even hear the fines running ( YET )
My mind say ( Don't buy it is was 2nd handed )
my heart says ( Come on is £1000 off is price is was before ) - old but still useable for 2024 as you mostly steam
Battery 8-9 hours even longer than 2 hours which my old laptop was able to keep connected to a plug all the time
Changing lower on macbook at least is meets my needs an laptop taht don't dies every 1.7 hours needing me to plug it in which my new laptop don't even drain fast
@@Stormlywing Gaming laptops were pure trash before the 30 series. 10 series and below especially were hot garbage. They improved exponentially since 2020 though. You can now get a gaming laptop with PC-like performance in an ultrabook form factor and 8+hr battery life.
Your mac will not game unlike a Linux laptop. @@Stormlywing
@@Aresydatch But you can install Linux on these Macs and game on that! [1/2]
Not a problem on linux. Windows has been doing stuff like this forever. Either intentionally or out of sheer incompetence. One of the big reasons I switched.
you felt the need to announce your departure like your riding a airplane like you do you no need to comment😭
did gaming compatibility improve for linux since steamdeck came out?
@@fico1557 Definitely, it was decent before too though because of Proton.
@@fico1557 for a lot of games, yeah. The only thing holding me back now is Xbox Game Pass and MS Office. Even Roblox is playable on Linux again via Sober.
@@fico1557 seems to work for every game except a few games with anti cheat
Vex!! I know why!
In order to download the preview build, you need to log into a Microsoft account, but doing so loads all Microsoft settings from all the years you've had the account! This is also why Hardware Unboxed had that "bad install", so AFTER the 24H2 update, LOG OUT of your Microsoft account and run the tests again, after doing this I got the huge increases we saw in Steve's video!
Cheers
Oh gosh, that's exactly why I am not using a Microsoft account, and don't really want to. If I do a clean install, I want it to be that and adjust/restore things afterwards.
Unless it's opt-in on what to restore, I will avoid logging in..
When I was a kid, I used to hate how Windows gives a lot of bloatware, add that with having an AMD hardware, I've searched on forums that Windows intentionally sabotages AMD hardware. And now this video comes and good thing my hunch was right.
dont trust market sellers which are living from to sell hardware
Random schizos told you Microsoft sabotages AMD?
Is this the level of copium we are at? LMAO
The lows are getting a nice improvement in most of the cases, which is, admittedly, more important than slight regression in average. Still, a clusterf*** of an update
AMD: microsoft! wth? why do you suck with our cpus?
MS: we were looking for your corporate christmas gift to us and couldn't find it. intel's was very generous...just sayin...
The official story is Spectre and Meltdown. Speculative Execution and Branch Prediction vulnerabilities were considered high risk and required mitigations which negatively impacts performance of CPUs. The local admin account seems to have a means of bypassing these mitigations, presumably because running as local admin and bypassing all UAC prompts is terribly insecure such that the mitigations are pointless.
It is more likely that Intel caught the difference, while AMD running their systems as the local admin did not catch the difference until reviewers did.
@@marvinmallette6795 microsoft(pp) glazer
@@marvinmallette6795 Smells like someone just sniffing window's pants for brownie points. I have no love for windows, nor their current practices.
"Besides we're the only thing stopping
China, your chips ain't going to save you from Chinese gamers.
This is why I am staying on Windows 10 until about before it goes out of support. I don't beta test for free.
its already out of support by now....
@@user78405 "Windows 10 will reach end of support for updates on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10."
@@user78405 October 14, 2025 so he has still some time to learn linux tbh before bad ending happen
@@user78405 no? Security support(the important one) ends in oct 2025. Where do you read this stuff?
@@user78405 Someone's not very bright...
Microsoft trying to get people to switch to Linux at this point.
And it isn't working 😂
It is. There are entire governememtal organisations and enterprises switching to it. And I mean for Linux Desktop, everywhere else Linux has been the winner for a long time now
@@kirby21-xz4rx You say that, but just a couple years ago it was only about 2%, since then, it has more than doubled, yeah, that is only about 4%. As more people use it, more people are going to recommend it.
Yeah, no. People won't switch to Linux.
@@kirby21-xz4rxsuddenly it is, cuz linux market is only growing
Rather than Microsoft favoring Intel over AMD it just looks like current programmers aren't as good as old programmers that worked on previous versions of Windows. What makes me think that is just look at how many serious security bugs have been found in the last like 2 years.
not to mention they got rid of their world class QA department in favor of letting customers be guniea pigs
This are not bugs.
This are legal backdoors for CIA, FBI and so on.
To the last point: Or.. there was just more security testing, so more things were discovered.
Thing is also, a lot of the clever performance optimizations are susceptible to open up security holes, so perhaps that's just a natural development once more effort goes into software/firmware performance improvements and things become more complex.
Don't know if that's actually the case, but that's an alternative take.
Probably just microsoft's management really. I fail to see how talented programmers want to work for microsoft
-see all this going on
-laughs in penguin
-gets called out
-keep laughing in penguin anyway.
XD true linux expierence *laughs in penguin myself*
If it just supported all games and mods. I would switch. 😒
@@Erc294 it practicly do support all games just the anticheated one has weird kernel problems plus modding is not that bad only the skyrim and few other that has specific engine build has mod problems tbh. And if you have power of wolf inner will there are tutorials how to make skyrim works but i understand that its not conveniant cause some games are mods require to have good expierence hope more people would dedicate to make them bi for both systems like some mod creators on cyberpunk or gamedev have better support for makin mods for example minecraft practicly every mod works fine despite weird eyetracking bordless etc. Well have a nice day thought man
@@erixIsOffline the anti-cheats don't work on linux because the "anti-cheat" needs to basically HACK your computer, and Linux is too safe for that to happen. It is not that it doesn't work, it is that linux is too safe for it to work.
@@erixIsOfflineso it supports all games but doesnt run as well as windows.. nah ill give linux another 3yrs, switching to linux is clearly still an inconvenience atm (switching to a different OS thats supposed to be better should NOT be an inconvenience, so dont even bring up that argument)
AMD was working for years on zen5. And all this time, they were testing on a version of windows that nobody uses. So when real people started to use zen5 on a production windows, they got different result.
Apparently, security features were disabled in this special windows and that is why you got that performance hit. Now, when AMD finally starts testing on normal windows, they can tell MS something is wrong. They can work together to fix it. And MS releases a fix.
Or, AMD has been telling MS to fix the bug for 3 years. But they held off for Intel.
@@Ferdinand208 could've just started with that last phrase..
remember the zen5 launch delay? We found the real reason.
Their automated test process likely required the elevated permissions. To your point AMD failed by not testing as a typical user. It’s unlikely they used a special OS as that goes against best practice.
I’m sure MS has probably known about the potential impact of this issue for years. MS likely disregarded that feedback without AMD backing it up.
@@davidroberts9099 It goes against best practice to test an approximation of what you want to test. What AMD was testing was something only AMD uses. That is why professionals test what they want to test. It is like using geekbench to show how good your cpu is for gaming or productivity. Most people know that is dumb.
I find it difficult to believe that you believe:
1 testing in a mode that no user uses is reliable
2 testing without security that no user uses is reliable
3 that AMD knows more about benchmarking than professional benchmarkers
4 that MS wants windows to be used less in servers with AMD cpus (if you think you didn't claim this, you need a rethink)
5 that after the complete explanation of what likely happened, you still think AMD is in the right and MS is in the wrong
@@Ferdinand208 I think you misread me. I am a professional and familiar with testing for enterprise environments.
I’ve been telling off dev’s from testing using admin accounts for decades. It’s a very old issue because it’s an easy way for low skill developers to solve problems.
I work in InfoSec in particular. I’ve same had the argument about dev environments needing to match prod for just as long.
Many would think AMD should know more about benchmarking. I’ll bet you that benchmarking websites routinely see visits from AMD, Nvidia and Intel. I used gamer tweaks to tune stock trading machines for financial companies.
As for Microsoft I have decades of experience working with them commercially. I’ve seen them tank companies they don’t like too many times before. For example back in the Wintel days they were busted in court for doing this.
As for what I claim, stick with what I write and not what you insinuate.
Face it, AMD messed up big time like they always do
How many shares does Gates have in Intel
Gates hasn't been the CEO of Microsoft for 20 years...
1,5% of stocks but he is the largest single owner of MS shares. He has large shares in LinkedIn, John Deer and Activision. It tells a lot.
The real question is how much farmland does he own and why are food prices are so high
@@HanSolo__John Deer gets your job done.
@@HanSolo__ Wow. How many stocks does he really have in stock?
"linux users think linux is the best OS, but in reality 70% of people use windows"
only a windows user could think that quality is a popularity contest 🐧
Linux is still unstable. Needs more work and i may pernamently switch
@@someone4229Unstable? You are using Linux without even knowing it. Sitting at home on a Windows computer using Linux servers running quietly in the background.
I use Windows too and have never really liked using Linux as a desktop but in reality that is not the fault of Linux. Their problem is that all software makers write programs for Windows and nothing for Linux so Linux depends on the community to do it for free and do it well.
Currently I'm running Windows 10 and read some really bad news about Windows 11, after 10 I am going 100% Linux since I'm rather shooting myself in the foot than in the head.
@@someone4229 it's stable for me though.
What kind of issues you had? Maybe I could help
@@someone4229>Me, who has been using linux for 2+ years now and never turning the thing off.
Wha?
and you assume he implied it. But don't worry Microsoft is currently speedrunning a massive Wave of User Migration to Linux with all the fuckery they are pulling off
I have never been a Linux user but Microsoft has steadily been pushing me there ever since Vista. They don't want me as a customer and they will have their wish.
when you are using SQL you will be better in small terms with PostgreSQL and Debian, Arch or Suse - in enterprise you will run straight to big blue and oracle
Strange since microsoft uses AMD in xbox
Because they know if they use Intel in a GAME console people would be angry because of the low performance
@@bonkbonk7195that's for gpu. The main reason is that Intel wants more money than amd
I think it's because it's cheaper to have to pay only 1 company to use stuff in their consoles instead 2. Also, xbox isn't run by windows.
@@NobodyNew02 its runing a version of the NT kernel, isnt it?
@@bonkbonk7195 really ? intersting...
...how about the reality to get someone into regression ?
oh well poor amd - it will explode like a splash under acme conditions
windows isn't picking favourites it's just straight up bad!
Stick with that Linux crapware.
@@FrankBailey-mg9uo You: Linux is crapware, Microsoft: Azure Linux
Underrated comment i hate windows 11 and 10 was already bad but i think people dont care and would go as far as disabling manually each spyware there is after every update like isnt this a sissyphus than im donald trump
@@FrankBailey-mg9uo if you dont like linux dont use it, I dont like intel cpus but it doenst mean i cant appreciate the ARC/XE gpus for waht they are so i dont know stop being sad and get a beatiful girlfriend my guy
@@erixIsOfflineI rather that than install a f*cking virtual machine for simple *ss software... Also removing bloatware on win 11 is easy... just pick UK installation? Duh?
Cool. I wanted to switch to Linux anyway.
cool, here's a banana 🍌
nice if i was a girl i would vacuum this banana of yours
hi, i just want to say fedora linux
Welcome to the gang, ignore stupid people that thinks they're gods and read a lot of forums, you can really daily drive linux easily, I'm daily driving around 8 years and still rocking!
@@Disturbed_faceI don't get whats wrong with reading forums, perhaps you can rephrase your question. The people reading forums are likely to help others or find help
Running as administrator disables "Virtualisation Based Security", where windows tries to run everything in a VM, so that it can gain the same sandboxing ability Linux does via Containers.... as a result, of running in VBS, the code would be running in a VM, and not directly on the CPU, so low level CPU features/enhancements probably would be unable to function as well as expected.
I'm kinda in awe that the Administrator account, the account that MOST needs security, disables the sandboxing... go figure.
Not necessarily on your last point. I would argue that users using such an account, well-hidden and with maximum privileges, (would) know what they are doing and does not benefit from the security provided by virtualisation. If an average user uses said account and they screwed something up, that's on them.
@@RusticKey I realise there are no recent stats, and those are hard to get, but it wasn't too long ago that it was let slip that the percentage of windows users who run as administrator all the time is quite high... so while I'd love to agree with you, I know it's a complex topic.
@@JamesLewis I understand. Most users would mindlessly run administrator because so many things require elevated permissions, but still the administrator account discussed here has a lot more privileges than a faux "administrator" account most users have.
Most logical take I've seen, but I guess the conspiracy theorist troglodytes are the loudest.
You know, I am SO glad that I'm still on Windows 10. I only change Windows versions when I'm FORCED to. Hell, if I had my way, I'd still be using W7. I took one look at W8 and said "Oh HELL NO!". To date, I've never used it on any of my own PCs. I tried using it on my sister's craptop and, while I was able to use it, I absolutely HATED it.
Well, you can always switch to Debian when you are in a dead end.
@@MikePainstill Dead end? Naw. Every W10 installation has a free upgrade to W11. I'm just not using it until I absolutely have to.
@@AvroBellow
That’s the thing, you absolutely have to due to end of support, which means that desktops with “obsolete” hardware encounter a hardware dead end imposed by unoptimised and badly made Windows 11 and further.
Solution? Just install Debian, lol.
7 was crap too, XP was the only remotely useable version of windows.
@@KoenZyxYssel I disagree. I actually liked W7 (maybe because I only ever used the Ultimate version). I gotta admit though, I LOVED XP Pro!
noticed the new windows update ended up breaking my bluetooth sound... to the point where i had to uninstall the update again.😑
XD i thought only linux has those problems
@@erixIsOffline most of the last few updates were bad. one update even took out one of my ram sticks.
@@theunknownbeeza1632 ik what you mean my laptop that has 8gb it is win 10 has a month ago update that took 4.7 gb for no reasone and recently it got normal but god damn whole month i got less stable and stuttery computer XD
@@theunknownbeeza1632 How would that even be possible? Answer, it isn't - if it was, you'd be able to destroy memory just by running ordinary program code on the CPU, which would obviously be disastrous from a reliability/security standpoint. No, your stick was either already bad, and you simply happened to realize it now, or it was an accidental coincidence that it broke in conjunction with you installing this update.
@lennyvalentin6485 all I know is that... pc was working fine... got an update... after update pc started blue screening in-game and even just while browsing RUclips... so troubleshooting narrowed it down to one dimm stick being faulty.
Well, funny enough my roommate is using an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, and the updated version of 23H2 did make a difference in gaming performance in every game he plays for the most part. Thing is, the performance is already so good in the games he plays, he had to measure the differences before and after. He did get anywhere from 5-10% uplift in performance, and strangely enough, his actual Windows experience over all just seems snappier.
This is good! I have a 5800X3D myself
It might be better for X3D chips then.
I.always look.at how cpu perform.on games as it taxes the CPU not just the GPU. Usually translate well to.how non gaming will run.
WIntel used to be a thing and probably still is. Microsoft goes out of their way to optimize for Intel CPUs, like when they introduced hyperthreading in the P4 era and the latest P and E core architectures. However AMD is always an afterthought for some reason.
what is this Wintel? is it some dark era where intel was the only hardware taht windows could execute properly?
@@erixIsOffline Google it right now. It's been talked about for decades.
Opposite to Intel GPUs which suggests money and market talk.
@@erixIsOffline no Intel is providing development for Windows....
That's way WinTel 🤔.
But they never going to use it to make AMD look bad 🤡🎪...
@@erixIsOfflineyeah because sometimes Microsoft made Intel look better by making AMD not optimised enough for actual fair comparison.
Hmmm.... potential Lawsuit?.... Let's go AMD 💪
hello titanics how does it feel to sunk yourself for the insurancefraud ?
4:16 That's crazy. I spent 20 minutes searching through the update notes of 23H2 looking for information regarding Ryzen 7000 and 9000 series processors and Vex pointed that out. It's sus behavior
I mean look at what happened when 12th Gen first came out from Intel, they worked hand in hand with Microsoft and would even say Windows 11 runs best with Intel
Check if VBS / Memory Integrity is enabled on 24H2. It was enabled on mine before I did the update and now its off (I didnt touch it) , that gives a performance increase on its own.
i hated trying to switch to linux last time but microsoft is tempting me big time
Tortious interference, also known as intentional interference with contractual relations, in the common law of torts, occurs when one person intentionally damages someone else's contractual or business relationships with a third party, causing economic harm.
I am only using Linux as a daily driver, gaming with a high end AMD, I would never have know all this without your video
intel probably threatened microsoft . its not unheard of as during the athlon phenom and fx days intel threatened oems that they would raise shipping costs if they used amd cpus which is why back then so many oem pcs and laptops with amd parts were just worse quality
I’m buying a 9700x. I got a feeling these chips will be popping off in a few updates.
This could either be the best choice you made in your entire life or the worst nothing in between
Power usage is great too. If you have a low profile ITX setup, the 9700x is one of the ideal CPUs.
@@Shahzad12357 best choice or a meh. The processors are still decent. And with mobo combo at micro center it’s $50 more then 7700x one. So not a massive loss of performance doesn’t change.
my guy those might not be the greatest for gaming but if you play a game where you as host share your world aka you hosting world of example garrys mod map or doing some workloads like editing video or blender these cpus are great especially cause they have more than 20procent up lift in those area and fact they are much cooler on avg than 7000 can be a great pc for low power usage i myself think to build server with one cause this prediction branch works much better on linux than on windows and some website that shares data benchmarks for data servers showed improvment over 7800x3d in data transfering as well as 43 (3 images more) than intel 14900K in generative AI
Homie, they're just bad. This isn't any Intel Arc situation, AMD just fucked up, they made better productivity CPUs, and marketed them as better for gaming than the previous gen. If they get better, then just buy one at that point. Don't waste your money hoping the value on these CPUs goes up, don't play stocks with your CPU purchase. Imagine someone said the same about 11th gen intel a few years ago, that they believe the performance is gonna go up. Your money, your decision, but I can assure you these chips' performance is gonna stay as is.
Wow, I bet this is the tip of the iceberg. Companies paying MS to screw over the competition. And the fact that your card was like that after reinstalling drivers is scary!
AMD drivers are horrible. Nothing but problems and inconsistencies.
@@thespia9132 Idk, didn't face any issue when I built my full AMD rig
@@Elvyne One of my first builds was AMD, great system. Gold bin CPU zero issues. New AMD GPU drives i have heard nothing but problems with them. Crashing inconsistencies and all around just poorly designed.
@@thespia9132 they do crash here and there...but the features and the overall package is topshelf now. it really does bring the whole driver package together better then nvidia does at the moment... if you have custom overclocks save the file...then when the drivers drop here and there just import the file. the 6000 and cheaper 7000 series gpu are a great buy.
@@thespia9132it's probably both from Microsoft and AMD, if AMD did their best but Microsoft ruined it, it would still be bad. Same as vice versa however this looks too odd since it happened when Intel is screwed
I wonder if they do this with AMD GPUs too. My old RX590 runs games it shouldn’t now that I’m using Linux.
I had a rx460 and it barely ran gta v, on linux I was rocking 60 fps, so yea, no idea why but gaming with amd on linux sometimes is better
@@Disturbed_face i wonder why those stupid market sellers discussing about one frame more when he could stand only in one at the same time in its casper theatre...
#idontuseamd #dmashit
That GN tshirt :D all this bench must have been exausting ! Nice Work !
*HEY*!!! no fair, us Linux users don't need meds! mostly. sometimes :P but yeah, stuff like this is the reason i switched to Linux Mint, and i'm hella happy where i am
awesome work Vex, this must have taken a ton of effort - good job. dunno about regressions, GPU drivers not being ready for the beta branch and core scheduling across dual CCDs on Zen 3 maybe? seems damn weird. i guess that's why it's a beta branch tho, not the main fork
I really like his "since 70% of normies use a shitty OS, you shouldn't point out how terrible it is"...
Oh man, linux mint is so nice. It's the windows of the linux world. Everything works out of the box, and you rarely ever need to use the terminal. No dealing with corporate decisions like in windows either
@@totallyrealcat4800 yep yep, it is THE n00b distro, it's bloody lovely to use. might move on from it eventually, but for now, Mint is great :)
Oh looks like you forgot meds again!
@@anarchicnerd666you could use something like debian with xfce(low usage, good for some) or arch. If you don't like the installing process of arch, use archinstall... Just make sure not to tell any arch user.
For future testing I recommend adding escape from tarkov to the line up, probably the most CPU intensive game right now, specifically the PVE mode.
This sounds like a lawsuit in the making.
Response : Summons One China Policy.
I like the way you present and explain.
Thx, new sub btw
Thanks for this thorough report man. I guess I will just wait a few months before hopping to the next build of Windows 11.
I would love to see a comparison between windows 11 and Linux based systems. I guess there could be a notable difference based on the compatibility layer. I mean, the performance hit could be directly on windows and not in linux.
one person was like:
yo what about mac🤓
Did not finish
Sorry did not even start the game. Lol
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat it's like going to a Camping truck event where people bring their fourrunners and Ranger and jeep builds and someone gets their cyber truck stuck in a puddle
its good for production but thats about it
@@judaspriestforever153 uhhhh what do mean by that?
@@peace_maxxer I think he meant that they have great video rendering or something like that
Ubisoft, Blizzard, Bethesda - losses after update
CD PR, Game Science - uplifts after update
Sony - no changes after the update
on AM4.
World of Warcraft "feels" quite a lot choppier after the update on my 7990X3D. Don't have any actual performance numbers to give though, since so much depends not just on location but also number of nearby players, viewing angles etc etc. So, GG Blizz? :P
@@lennyvalentin6485 I don't think this is an AMD problem and its more of a blizzard problem. Ever since Dragonflight the game has ran way worse for me on intel as well. It seems to only be in any new zones. Any zones pre-dragonflight run buttery smooth, but in Valdrakken and parts of the ringing deeps I get frame dips galore.
@@Manicfuguestate Yes, I have seen the same in the new zones since DF, but even so, the dips (more like outright stuttering/hitches) "feel" much worse now, after the update. It's like, bad, stacked on top of more bad. :/
@@lennyvalentin6485 this sucks to hear. I'm planning on getting a new pc in the next few months and was gonna go with AMD this time.
@@Manicfuguestate Hopefully Blizz can do something about it, it's not the CPU cores getting maxed out or anything like that. I've checked task manager, none of the cores are even close to bottlenecking when the FPS is tanking bigtime. It's really weird.
Part of the FPS problem probably is because I had to turn off "advanced work submit" under graphics/compatibility settings, or the AMD Radeon driver would crash/reset A LOT. Several times an hour sometimes, it was making the game nearly unplayable at times. Even so, I still get the odd driver reset now and then. :P So the stuttering could be a GPU resource management issue (like textures getting flushed from GPU memory when they shouldn't, and then have to be re-copied etc) rather than being CPU-related, but then why would it get worse after the windows patch? *shrug* (If it ever actually did! lol Maybe it's just in my head - I don't actually have any framerate/framedrop statistics.)
I will update the GPU driver to the latest public version soon and turn the "advanced work submit" option back on and see if anything's changed. Probably not! :D
As 14 years user of AMD (Dec 1999-2014), and 10 years (2014-2024) user of Intel: There was a time when I thought Microsoft owned Intel, because everything was so much so integrated for Intel
Here is always an issue that I see here, and that is very much a solution to a situation:
You have AMD not being respected by Microsoft, because of close ties with Intel, unfortunate for AMD, but cool just accept it, you have couple of options as AMD:
1) Accept it
2) Find a better relationship with Microsoft to allow Microsoft to write your architecture into their operating systems
3) Make your own Operating System like Linux, but by AMD
Yeah, sure, the implementation will be something of a mountain climb, but you can make an operating system favoring your CPU and you can do it in-house.
The problem of course is that many game developers will not develop on your independent OS, but considering that AMD has been around since 1969, you could have made an OS by now, and have a system that favors you.
Slowly others would accept your OS platform, but for what...for 25 years you realize that OS will never even have even playing field, well...that's on you for not putting in the effort.
Operating system implementation is tough, and it took years for Linux to even play games properly, but it is too much of "programmer heaven" and not so much a "consumer heaven"
I like Ubuntu, but not for my every day driver, because it requires a ton of knowledge in kernels, and interface is tough to master.
OS needs to be easily accessible even by a 10-12 year old, and AMD can do it, and they should.
Will they? Probably not.
Money.
Money is the only key, I can give you an example:
In Russia we have MCSt, company who manifactures processors on their unique architecture, and it really fires sometimes, but instead of helping developing really perspective things government really only wants to steal people's money and put them to the war. But when they got financial credit in 2016 they made a processor that was comparable with intel core 1st and 2nd gen, what they could possibly make if they had money of 1 month of the war.
uuuh those via chipsets - there was a time where i ripped off the board from abit and smashed it with the kacklon in the face of the market seller
trash from the beginning those amd cpu without own mainboards - those " division of nine " is at the end with their latin to fix hardwarebugs with patches which never helped in the base problem.
those kiddies should buy a computer from fisher price
I have a Ryzen 7 7800x3D processor, but for the last 2 months, the Windows taskbar has been constantly freezing and Windows Explorer is not responding, and when I look at the task manager, the processor's internal graphics card is at 100%. Whether you use Windows 10/11 or format a clean Windows, the situation is the same, Microsoft does this! This is Wintel collaboration!
Thanks for including zen 3
My 5900x is still making me a very happy gamer 😊👍 not the smallest need for updating it here.
@@interlace84 same, small OC and we in the 5ghz range with a good curve optimized its pairing with my 4070 ti super very well.
Zen 3 just works, way better than Zen 4 and Zen 5.
@@saricubra2867this is truth because they are afraid zen4 will eat gpu sales on desktop ai.. It's just silly
Windows 11 has been terrible since it launched. Remember all the fucking SSD problems in the beginning? lmfao
Microsoft is dirty but Bill did found it so it's only natural.
I am really confused here, I have Windows 10, and will upgrade to Ryzen 7 7800X3D today, which version should I avoid?
I swear, choosing the R7-5800X3D route over AM5 was one of the best decisions that I've ever made! Also choosing to stic with W10 instead of W11 has also panned out nicely!
If true, just showcases how Intel always needs someone to push favourites.
Remember Dell? The lawsuit?
How about the time intel literally paid some programmers for their "multithreaded" programs to only work if an intel chip is detected. Leaving slower performance when you had AMD dual cores.
Malice isn't likely.
I think it's likely a big that was accidentally introduced when Microsoft rewrote big chunks of the scheduler for 12th gen.
Big.LITTLE is a new thing for x86, and it had a rocky start.
Intel knee-jerk disabled AVX512 in 12th gen most likely because the MS scheduler was unable to cope with different institution capabilities and they couldn't fix it in time.
12th gen is also asynchronous. The cores run at wildly different speeds. This is a big issue in some applications. Going back a long long time, but on my celeron 333/433@83fsb, red faction had some hilarious quirks due to the different speeds. Xp mostly resolved it, but it is still a potential issue when threads depend on each other and they run at different speeds.
12th gen is also a homogeneous chip. It is one cluster of cores sharing a ring bus.
So MS went ahead and did a bunch of optimisation for Intel, who are only about 80% of the market, and probably accidentally deoptimised AMDs more classic northbridge(io die) + 2 sockets (chiplets) multicore architecture.
It's also worth noting that the Intel compiler is popular and obviously optimised for Intel.
AMD, due to their market share have probably needed to prod MS from time to time for AMD optimisations for decades.
They'd be well aware of that, and apparently forgot to compare builds for regressions.
Basically, I think it's most likely a programming accident rather than malice.
AND thats a good comment, nothing like "omg amd sucks is bad they dont know waht to do and cant even program a damn straight" actually wonder if somebody would have more logical explanation on topic not like windows by itself isnt kinda bad in my opinion but seeing it having problem to keep their market is nice to see some people trying to have genuine analyse of the topic rather than emotionally trying to gaslight others people into their believes
Logical post. I have an odd suspicion some of the simpletons claiming malice have never actually written a program in their lives; optimization is not something you get perfect on the first, tenth, or possibly hundredth revision, and Windows has to deal with a laundry list of hardware configurations.
I would agree malics is very unlikely Microsoft knows that Linux and Apple are getting stronger. For them it makes no difference if you have an Amd or Intel cpu or even an arm cpu, they just want you to use windows. It is also much more complicated to optimize (or deoptimide if you want so) things in an operating system so deep down at the cpu than most of us probably think. When you change something it might improve it for one device but make it worse for others and that is a tight balance they have to look at
so is this a windows 11 exclusive thing? should i as a ryzen owner go back to 10?
You should go back to 10 because 11 is dogshit (10 is as well)
@@lerb3001 10 is less shit
Your channel is about to explode. Great work Vex. Thanks.
This is absolutely grounds for Antitrust.
28:37 look at the footage, the GPU usage and wattage with the KB5041587 patch was significantly higher, and it looks like the textures that were loaded are significantly higher quality, may it be possible that datastreaming to the GPU is improved because of CPU improvements, and it's causing the GPU to have to work harder.
good point tbh nvidia has a overhead problem so maybe it will improve this things a bit, i personally dont use nvidia products but lack of tech like SAM on those graphics card is hurtfull for older gen cpus from amd from waht i saw in past
well noted!
@@erixIsOfflineI could swear that the Nvidia 4080 has SAM, because SAM is just ReBAR and everyone has ReBAR now. Same way that RTX is just a fancy way of saying Ray Tracing, and everyone has Ray Tracing now. Right?
@@levygaming3133 SAM is rebar but rebar isn't SAM also arc doesnt have rebar so technicly you right but the way NVIDIA and AMD use those is different cause you can use SAM on 5000 series of Radeon which doenst support rebar from what i Heard unless i'm wrong
@@erixIsOffline arc doesn’t just have rebar, doesn’t it outright need rebar to even function? But yeah, I think I heard the number of games Nvidia actually takes advantage of ReBAR in is fairly small.
Intel was the majority for most of Windows. Not a surprise.
Intel used to be and still is a major user (not only for regular consumers). Games developers don't care about AMD GPUs, either. All current games are made for Nvidia, so there is no need to update the GPU drives. AMD does the driver updates because they have 15% of the market. Arc GPUs do the updates because the games are published broken for Arc.
Intel still is the majority, it hasn't changed.
@@HanSolo__and yet their financials have been declining by more then 50% ever year ☠️
@@HanSolo__ ah yes, you really want monopolies controlling the game industry for processing. actual child
People are forgetting, these improvements and regressions are also effectively BETA scope in their implementation.
Microsoft only released the 23h2 update with so of the 24h2 changes, after all the hype and publicity.
I'd argue both need a good few mobo (entire suite) chipset and 2-6 months ahead worth of gfx driver updates before we see less/eliminated regression, and also to give all the devs time to work with the changes, as it is we're effectively using software too new with some changes to how it'd utilizing hardware all around, without the other supporting eco system's software having caught up yet.
Just my opinion. 24h2 runs nicely on my 7900xt/7700x - but I'd go as far as saying we have yet to see the culmination of it all, which may take more time.
As a person who plan on moving to ubuntuDDE (or Garuda), I see this as an absolute win
I currently am on garuda hyprland: i recommend it :)
Have you consider disabling MS Defender? As a QA who have to run performance testing for desktop app on Windows, It's the first thing I turn off. MS Defender can decide to run it's anti malware program at odd time and mess up my test results. I also have odd performance problems with Windows from a cold boot and disable the Defender can resolve the issue.
Why doesnt windows just make a "gaming" version, of it or smth, with less bloatware and some good settings for background programs, power plan etc.. I mean there is already so many tools to optimize windows , where you can acess many hidden options to configure many stuff that slow the system down etc.. I guess no1 really buys windows, so Microsoft doesnt feel like putting effort in it or smth ? Btw, for me the update gave 0% improvement in CS2 on R5 7600. So what now, we wait for system updates , for 10% fps on a specific game per update ? When is CS2 preformance update for zen4 coming out ? 🤣
And make it affordable. Guarantee they could reduce piracy and third party key resellers.
i thinking there gonna be another edition after the pro and home....but i am pretty sure they gonna revamp the home edition that design only for gamers in mind while pro edition gonna be replace with workstation edition that shouldn't be called pro...the new home edition gonna have same unified kernel and hypervisor driver that share with xbox os..same code based that make it easier for game dev to make good ports from pc to xbox...
They won't be able to harvest your data as much with this
@@slimal1They hardly make any money from individuals willingly buying Windows now. They earn from laptop companies that preinstall windows with license into their models. They also earn a lot more from people that pirate their OS by selling their data. They make profits even if you pirate it.
@@slimal1 “They should make windows more affordable”
? Microsoft mostly hands windows out for free nowadays, how much more affordable can you get, mailing hundred dollar bills with free windows CDs? Pretty sure the last version of windows they charged money for was the upgrade from pre-Win-7 to Win-7.
Yet another reason NOT to update/downgrade to Windows 11.
Trying deleting shader cache for games that dont launch. I had to do this for battlefield 2042
Lol
"did you clear your cookies?"
Love how thorough you are!!!! Great video! We AMD users need to stick together man!!!
1:35 I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux,” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.
Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
What about WIndows 10?
Windows 10 22h2 is faster than win 11 23h2, but slower than 24h2 preview.
Malware just like the rest of the Microsoft trash.
@@chrismay2298 XD
Win10 and especially Win10 LTSC (IoT for support until 2032) is less problematic and more stable than Win11, but Win11 LTSC tends to have slightly better gaming performance if you have relatively recent system parts. Its up to you which is preferable, but personally I would take a more stable OS with less telemetry "features" over one that has slightly better performance. Also, Win11 updates can change your system settings and even potentially BIOS settings without your consent. That's a big no-no for me.
@@savagej4y241 I upgraded from LTSC 21H2 to LTSC 24H2 recently by a clean install. My system has a Ryzen 5600, and I have not noticed a difference really, other than how they finally fixed how Windows handle multiple monitors with different refresh rates.
This is as old as Windows XP and Athlon 64/P4, you can caulk it up to AMD dropping the ball on working with Windows. Keep in mind Intel still has a massively larger teams working on the same things AMD does, even after recent layoffs. Then if i remember right, Intel also maliciously "helped" Windows run worse for anything multi threaded that was not Intel on XP SP1 with Pentium 4 HT. Nvidia and Intel seem to have the same strategy's at times
Microsoft's balls are micro and soft
There is also some factors that windows bloatwares running on the background
Oh my god, that 8% improvement gonna change my life!
Makes you wonder, you spent time researching and configuring everything and those companies cant even communicate with each other.
True like i believe windows just doesnt give a damn and when amd was testing thiis cpus in administratior with makes sense from development sight i think windows probably was like UUU nice we will slap that into our spyware and will see waht happen like on linux 9000 was actually faster and you have perf penalty due to proton layer emulation yet you do have this improvement like its crazy especiallly since they were working from day one with all the features as they should and yet windows performs worse despise having much more work do to in background still loosing in games where proton barely was able to give good avg not talikng about 1procent... DAMN...
They do. With money.
@@HanSolo__ They dont, with money. I work in the field, most ppl just do their tickets and that's it, agile does the rest. Once the employee loses his felt responsibility it becomes just a job. I guess they dont communicate because there are deciders and people making it too hard to take responsibility, even if it is paid for and wanted by the product owner.
Literally watched projects being split up into completely disfunctional work groups and then being exorcised for multiple years when fewer people could have done it faster and with much better quality. It is not that many cooks ruin the soup as we say in germany, it is that you need the skill to manage that many cooks. In "The Art of War" it is written that the amount of men is not the decisive factor, how you split them up and coordinate really is.
28:17 also right at the launch of Zen 5. Even if the performance improves with updates, the perception of 9000 series is ruined for most.
Do you even Remember the 7000 launch? "What the 5800x3d is just as fast as the 7700x. 7000 is botched and shit and stuff and meh"
Now most people are recommending 7800x3d.
What the hell. Wait for 9800x3d. How about that before jumping to premature conclusions? God society is really bad at this game.
@user-vs5ux6dc8o chill lmao, I'm not the one jumping to conclusions. 9000 series wasn't a terrible launch in my opinion. I was saying it's already not really attractive for most people because they're probably waiting for X3D parts, and the excitement only got stiffled more by underwhelming performance caused by Windows issues
@@DrathVader tbh most people who cares about gaming would buy x3d versions anyways and some who cares about workload would buy normal x variants the probelem is amd as every other hardware company lies a lot and people always says (and i mean literally not so long ago people were saying zen3 is better than zen4) last gen more value than new bullshit unleast amd gets that treatment and even if they would work greater than now people forgot how much better those baked cpus with old designs can uplift performance in some areas massivly bad we as humans tend to focuses to much on bad rather than point a true evil and appreciate those good. Just wanted to say that sorry for @ you, have a nice day :)
one thing that AMD needs are creating their own OS or choose to cooperate with some Linux corporation to create fully support and stable os
An own os?
Sounds fire af
Steam Deck could be a sort of precedent? I mean, they use an Customize Linux OS, so maybe they could make an colaboration with AMD and make a new OS for a Steam Deck 3 or similar.
stupid solution
The term 'malware' was first coined in 1990, and it's been a growing threat ever since. With attacks becoming more sophisticated, network security has never been more critical.
MALL WARE - another Term for mass products out of the souper market
the classifications are clear defined in RFC's - go and get some knowledge about trashy Realt(r)ekkies
chat gpt aaah comment
Interestingly when there was a decrease in performance the GPU usage went down. Something must have happened to make the GPU hold the CPU back
People treating AMD like they're some underdog victim company fighting for the community is insane though.
I just learned the hard way that AMD GPUs blow donkey dick. I wonder if the same people design their CPUs?
Fr. Plus I'm fairly certain this is not intentional. Intel has been running on Windows since its inception so I'm not particularly suprised intel knows the ins and outs of it. Even when zen 2 was out infinity fabric wasn't perfect and the fclk ratio had to be very specific. Intel never has this problem and similarly it's the same situation with RAM. Intel doesn't change much with the RAM whereas it's kind of vital on AMD.
This exactly! I've been hearing this story for over 20 years. Intel as the big evil corporation and AMD as the scrappy underdog who loves gamers and puppies but just doesn't get a break. It's rediculous. LTT is a big contributor to this as well.
AMD is indeed underdog though? They have better performance but they arent the top in the market because casuals only know Intel and Nvidia.
@@Doflaminguard Oh yeah, forgot how cool and underground you have to be to use AMD.
That is ridiculous. Market share of PCs is not the only thing AMD has under its belt, the console deals which have existed for over a decade alone are extremely substantial.
Performance wise it's also application specific, but even if they had every aspect of performance dominated CPU wise, they absolutely do not have the GPU performance edge.
Plenty of cases where the ratio of performance to total users/market share doesn't represent a particular company; for example, there are plenty of fan manufacturers that wipe the floor with Corsair, such as Fractal Design, but we're talking a literal 2x difference here, not the tit for tat Intel and AMD have been going at. Regardless, the competition between the two is good, it will drive innovation and force Intel and AMD to make better products. To dickride one brand or the other though, is foolish.
1:39 Linux is the best operating system 🙄🙄
not for gaming, silly
@@bloxxylenny I haven't tested it yet (still on Windows), but out of curiocity I've watched many videos about "Nobara", "Garuda", "Fedora 40", "CatchyOS" and they seems to run 90% of the games, except some with anti-cheat.
Heh, just like Google performance on things like RUclips, compared to Firefox.
remember when windows 11 first launched? ryzen was doing significantly worse on 11 compared to 10 then too! there was another bug significantly affecting ryzen performance, but it was considered fixed years ago. ryzen having issues on 11 isn't a new thing, it's been there since the start.
Definitely gonna check my windows update logs when i get home today
Seems like fake news since its zen 5 issue but he only tests older cpus.
Screaming into the void, but Microsoft isn't picking favorites.
Context:
Branch prediction at a high level allows the cpu to look ahead in a program and try to predict if it should load in certain parts of a program into cache so that it doesn't have to perform a conditional jump and wait for that part of the program to load in. This is all well and good but this also introduced an unpatchable vulnerability, wherein you can trick the branch predictor to load in certain parts of the program or even the kernel and read them, when you weren't supposed to be able to. The fix for this vulnerability: Microsoft had to tone down the branch predictor by adding permissions checks, introducing a performance cost. Since then Intel and AMD cpus have to work around Microsoft's mitigations for this and for the most part both have figured it out and we're back to pre-mitigation branch prediction performance.
Today:
One of the ways AMD is able to get more performance out of their CPU is that now instead of only loading in and trying to predict the next conditional instruction it will try and look ahead 2 instructions and load those parts of the program into memory. Again all well and good except that the Windows kernel hasn't caught up to that ability yet. If you were to dig down more and get more technical you can talk about memory tagging and the permissions checking leading to the slowdown but the fact of the matter is double branch prediction is new and the Windows Kernel hadn't caught up. That's also part of the reason why you saw such a massive performance boost on linux, because linux handled spectre/meltdown (the branch prediction vulnerability) differently and thus linux on amd could utilize the double branch prediction to yield the massive performance gain.
TL;DR
AMD introduced new tech and it took Microsoft some time to catch up, OP is rage-baiting by insinuating that Microsoft is treating intel preferentially even though in the Azure cloud Microsoft considers the EPYC cpu to be higher tier than intel azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/virtual-machines/series/ and cheaper to use.
You have earned a dislike for your stupidity
and in the reality amd builds the same trash since the dma transfer bug in chipsets - nothing fixed last 20 years
This stuff happens all the time and only gets fixed when people call them out, thank you
same happend 20 years ago... those amd dma bug is well known and not a problem in design by microsoft - seems to be that amd has not qualified drivers to solve their lousy issues
that was the reason why we had in this time only one mainboard with amd opteron for NLE-Workstations for Video Professionals
I'll be staying on Win 10 until I can no longer do it. For the sake of my dear 7950X3D.
Really good information. I really like the channel your making