The tierlist is based on a tierlist that was made by Koenig. We then improved it together. He deserves most of the credit here. I didn't pay much attention (and I guess it is similar for koenig) to the lower tiers. There are probably some wrong placements there. Keep in mind that it is difficult to rate divisions that do very different things. What is better between 3 US and dody? Impossible to say really. Also, we don't necessarly remember every unit in every divs so we might have made some mistakes.
Also, this tierlist is made for tournaments (and more specifically league). So some super specialized divs can be rated a lot higher than you would rate them for quick play/ranked since they can be very strong on the right map.
Disclaimer to all newer - mid players (basically anyone who has less than 600h). This tierlist is only applicable to 1vs1 tournament settings. Not quick play/ranked. Its a controled environment where both you, and the opponent pick maps and divisions and incomes (now you cant always pick all divisions or maps, iirc, some tournaments take an automatic pool of divisions or maps that you can take/ban). And there is a time limit, which again favours cheaper units which you can get more off to take ground. Another thing is, the maps that are being played 90% of the time are allied favoured (towns, closer ranges, yellow forest for sherman and bazookas)...you know, the ones where your tanks actually work and can pen a stug3...and these are - haroshaje, tsel, shnedrin, orasha east and orsha north. Axis tanks and IS2 are better at open maps like siano, sieldice, slutsk (2 variations with the hill still favour close range fights...), bobr (which has all ranges), brest west. Lenina is never in the pool (rightfully so). Gora kalwaria, once in a blue moon (rightfully so), finnish maps are rarely played as well. But they wont tell you any of this. They ll just say, 2nd blinde is A tier LMFAO. They ll say its your problem that you ended up on sieldice/siano/slutsk with 2nd blinde vs panthers in quick play and that its a skill issue. Fyi, CMW are good (not OP) because you have all the basic tools in infantry, support, AA and arty tab, sometimes good airforce, but it comes down to shermans to stop panzergrenadiers from 1vs2 your infantry and firefly to actually kill panthers/tigers.
pzgrens will only 1v2 your infantry if you are attacking on the open, if not a pzgren will lose 2v1 in cover vs cover fights and lose 1v1 if attacking in no cover. This being a list for tournaments is true, but it seems you are using it to justify some bad plays (the pzgren 2v1, the "allied favored map pool", etc
@Thehellhound100 by "allied map pool" i mean where you are forced to put a tank at 750m or in yellow forest to use machine guns to support infantry and fight other tanks. In this range, sherman and t34 76 can kill stug3 and these are the only settings where allied mediums are "better" than stug. The other maps i mentioned, you have some close range spots, but its mostly 1500-2000 where axis tanks are better. Edit starts here (i was typing something else...) : Maybe i overexaggerated the power of pzgrens for an argument. And i've been hearing since MoS came out how allied inf is so op, yet they still lose to pzgrens lol. Sure, MoS allies go hard on snipers and CQC, but pzgrens still stand. And just fyi, without 50 cal on sherman or halftracks, axis wins every equal cover infantry engagement over 100m. I cant remember exactly, because i dont use them anymore, but i am pretty sure pzgrens beats 1lmg squads in cover - grenadiers, strelki, etc.. I am not justifying bad plays. I am just giving context to information being presented in the video. Without my comment, someone might actually take Tyurin, 3rd gv tank and 2nd blinde in que in quick play and end up on a 2km map against panthers. And they ll lose and think..."oh boy, i suck at this game" and maybe even quit playing the game.
@ Except on slutsk west and sianno, you will always need a lot of tanks that can do inf support (and even on those maps, it is still relevant). Siedlce, Tali, Bobr, slutsk and slutsk east are all regularly played in tournaments. I agree with you that this tierlist is not really relevant outside of 1v1 tournaments but a lot of your criticisms are wrong.
@helpinghelper4151 as said, your takes about pzgrens are clearly not accurate. There is no need to exagerate them for an argument, allied (WA) divs are overrated in this tier list, but overrate pzgrens won't compensate that. They don't beat all allied squads 1v1: lose or have a lower DPS than equal price allied squads like rifles late, they beat 1v1 squads that cost less than them in equal cover and no, they don't beat defending inf in cover while they push in a 1v1 (grens, strelky, etc). If you are worried about someone getting wrong info due to this video, don't spread wrong info yourself
@@mimile4462 siano is played, sieldice too, but no one picks tyurin or 2nd blinde :) However, rest of the maps are rarely played...Or at least, they are rarely casted...i wonder why...maybe they end up in a stomp or in boring grindy match
First, this tierlist is part of an excel sheet where you can see all the stats of the monthly's tournament. I put the tierlist in the sheet to compare to the ranking of the Winrates of the divs in monthies. The goal was to give an idea, not necessarly to make the best tierlist ever (mission impossible). The most important there, is to take in account that the meta is about light vehicles on every maps even on the open field area. As Mimile said I purposed to him a first tier list that we discuss about and change some positions when we agreed. The reasoning behind the tierlist, is what is good for tournaments after bans and on a determined map. Then some divisions that are good in quickplay cannot perform same in tourneys because you will play on a specific map where your opponent will choose the remaining (after bans) best div adapted to the map (in his pov). For exemple a div like 715th s not adapted to a map like Orsha East whereas in QP if you fall on Orsha E with 715th, you can do well because your opponent doesn't a good div, doesn't have the div adapted or if he has doesn't play well as you. Then the reasoning is a bit more complex than ATK can express in his video, and it s normal ! A video can't long too much. And also we don't talk all about same things and some don't have the experience of tournaments and again it is normal. But don't forget that Season 12 began and we are in the period of league games casted so maybe it is interesting to see what performs in tourneys (the goal of my excel sheet given to ATK that you will see soon).
Sadly, PvP takes precedence when the game does PvP.. and I suspect that the number of single-player individuals with this game is considerably less than 99%.. that number is highly suspect here. 50-60% I'll buy, but 99%? C'mon!
Bezugly is Б, Vyborg is В, Tyurin is T, Fedyunkin is Ф. Symbols are first cyrillic letters of their names. You always mix up B and V. Bezugly has 1 card of tigers with normal availability and 1 card of single nashorn (su-88). Its a vanguard/maverick deck, no depth, but has some power to it.
Oof. Feels like a lot of these divs are getting by on 1-2 maps where they are good. Opinions: (for fun) 184th is supposed to have a card of T-34s and a card of OT-34s. It had support from them IRL and is missing them here. It would fix *so* many problems with this deck. 29th Tank below 19th Tank seems odd to me. The 5 point slot is scary, but it can still fit a card of infantry over 19th without it. Beyond the Infantry slot costs, its really got a lot of good stuff to play with. 16th Panzer over 5th is criminal. 16th has *terrible* infantry and AT tabs. I know Knoeig was all about the Support / Arty / Air tabs, but the abysmal infantry and lack of AT guns drag it down so far. 1st Skijaeger's placement seems generous. 25th PGren conversely feels low. 3rd Tank just needs a few AP buffs and it will be back. 715th behind 44th Strelki? And 3rd mech over both? 26th over 97th is a little surprising, but both are really good.
Sucks to see Toulon so low but its really not hard to understand why, very static. Maybe giving the Maro's back their Molotov's might help a little teeny bit? Lets them perform a little better in their niche.
I'll kill on the 52nd hill. It's almost all I play on 1v1 it's hard to use and rewarding when you win. But ya it deserves D I think if they just shifted the points around it'd get a bit better
Just a suggestion, but you are going to get MUCH better answers when talking to folks actively playing WarNo.. I'm fairly sure many of them are SD 2 veterans. I've not played that game yet.. and I suspect I'm typical on these types of videos/threads.
Was there a formal reasoning/criteria system that came with this tier list or is it more of an 'experience-based vibes' deal? I'm not sure it's entirely internally consistent throughout. It does also seem to lean a bit heavily into the 'Western Allies stronk' schtick IMO: yeah, some of their divisions are incredibly scary atm, but... 15th Scots and 6th SA in B? 2nd NZ and Guards Armoured in A?
I disagree these divisions have some of the most efficient tools in the entire game ( 17 Pounder , Cromwell,25 pounder …etc ) especially 6th SA have commando on most of their infantry , at guns and mortars not to mention the insane amount of tempest fighters with no proper weaknesses as so many other divisions have them . Most commonwealth divisions have these extremely effective tools that most axis units simply don’t have . As much as you judge the creators of the tier list on their apparent prejudices I can say the same for you’re ignorance.
Light vehicles = meta If you manage to play well combined arms those divs are good. And deserve to be B. Guard and 2nz are really cost-efficient divs. Don’t underestimate piat everywhere and shermans supported by light vehicles with m10 behind. And for bigger target you have 17pdr. They are A tier, but we put them low A tier. It isn’t insane to put a div in A tier. It means just that it is meta and competitive for tournaments. Not meaning that they will shred whatever they face.
@@colonelkoenig42birhakeim42 Sure, light vehicles are very strong right now but this tier list seems to take a lot more factors into account than that e.g. Bronirana, Strachwitz and Koruck are absolutely stacked with light vehicles and 9th Kav is amazing for countering light vehicles and they're all ranked C/D tier. On the other hand, some of these Allied divisions have relatively fewer light vehicles available and the basic Commonwealth infantry in particular is incredibly mediocre. In all seriousness though, it's basically impossible to make an uncontroversial tier list given how map/match-up dependent the game is, so fair play for giving us your thoughts. Still, I doubt we'll see you playing as 15th Scots in a tournament match any time soon.
Simply because Toulon has no vehicles at all. Has only 10 pz schrek max Has no light AT gun after A phase and has no tanks after A phase. How you manage a player who is playing with turans, t-34 76, stuart or pzIII combined with sdkfz, HT or recon vehicles ? You can’t Even when there is a skill gap or a favored map for Toulon you will struggle hardly or lose before you pull out a big arty gun. 19TK or Sicherungs can answer to this problem better and has map where they are good. Toulon is bad, can’t do nothing in tournaments or even in QP. It is not because we dislike the div. I love the originality of the div but it isn’t useful at all when you want to be serious. On Earth Toulon is bad 😉😜 For 715th same argue except that you have enough light vehicles and pz schrek to sustain a combined arms push during A phase. After that you getting crushed. Because you used all your answers to light armor. Then 715th is competitive but only against divs that don’t have a lot vehicles. If your opponent doesn’t misspick you can’t pull out 715th seriously outside slutsk maps and Tali. I can do the demonstration of struggling against light armor for 4Fsj, 91LL, 17SS, 28th jager
You will always have some opinion and never fully agree on lists like these so I think in general one is to focus on the divs that are significantly off from your perception when discussing. As slightly higher or lower is more rounding error imo. And I understand that the lower divs got less attention when making the list. But always fun to discuss. Overall I agree with most of it. For this though I am suprised by the following and my comments: 1. Tatra, They got good stuff, they hace a nice varied toolbox with good amounts of cheap inf and light armor which is meta. It doesnt do this to top levels but should be upper half at least. Its decent. 352nd. This is worse, it can deal with enemy heavy and medium tanks but if your opponent does anything else you are screwed as you have shit infantry with poor support. I think its bottom tier above the F tier divs. 16th Panzer is the same as above where I would place it. It is the epitome of high price div. Its supposed to have a good airtab but almost all of its airunits have shitty bombloadouts even if the plane is good. It really breaks under any amount of pressure. Alpini. They are a one trick pony. Sure if opponent cant deal with light armor is good but outside of that it just doesnt do anything good. Despite a good unit in cqc it being expensive and limited by not having any other cheaper unit supporting it it isnt amazing in the div. It can put on a lot of preassure with low calibre howitzers air and light armorspam which it does well but its very obvious what they will do and if it doesnt work they just crumble. As they need a onehit punch early as they wont even last as their good stuff runs out fast. Rhyma, needs to be lower. They have jääkäri and cheap stuff thats it. I only ever see them do well on skillgap is big. Only really able to fight on heavy cqc maps against divs that dont do cqc well. So it works against bad divisions on right maps is my opinion. MKB: I think this is the biggest miss on the list according to me. Their offmap is while nerfed still good but it just does t-34s and decent infantry with chebush being very price efficient. All while having a terrible counter to light / medium armor until B. where it goes to being ok not good. I think its similar to 6th territorial. Both have great inf but lacks agaisnt armor. MKB has better offmaps and airtab sure. But territorial is so much better at dealing with light armor which is the weakness of the divs. All while having better AA and arty outside offmaps. 3rd guards soviet were good because they had tons of shermans. This was during sherman busted op meta. That with some nice soviet inf and access to superheavy tank which was rarer than just made them topdog. But it was mainly shermans secondary inf and is-2 that made them good. And I would put them higher. They have good tank mix and decent inf which is enough for a solid mid division. 20th pgren should be lower its too niche on maps. feels like 21st is better well rounded with more med armor and wider array of tools. And isnt leaning on the crutch of a single good infcard and unicorn units. 358th I feel looks like it can do decent now with meta but i feel it still just continues to struggle like 6th corpul despite looking decent. They are limited outside of CQC and I feel shermans etc are their bane. The FSJ divs i actually agree them being that high. At current level the inf is just great and the divs still has the tools to deal with armor and such. 6th SA should be a good bunch down. only having really the sherman m10 cadre to do stuff isnt enough. TF butler might be slightly lower as well its not as bad as SA though. Break here after 16th luftwaffe thats enough writing for me for now
For Tatra, my reasoning was not enough cqc, good armor but you run out of it in end of B phase, not really 2K outisde of the krupp and tiger but tiger meh, no AA at all. Planes made for A phase only. And only 20 mm spw. Only one card of pz gren with faust. Then for tournaments, and it is the only goal of this tierlist, you won't pull out tatra because you have plenty of better options. The reasoning is the same for divs that higher than you think to be. I thought about 20 pzg, 352th, 6SA or 16pz only for open field maps, where they excel. Then they are enough good to pick them after 10 bans, that's why they are so high. But I agree that they are not good on other maps. Again same reasoning for Ryhma, 358th, 3GMK, MGB or Alpini Monterosa, I assessed them in taking account that you will pull out those divs only on CQC maps, then they are pretty good and can be putted in top 10 of the best divs in cqc maps that's why they are there. To end Butler is good and underrated, since fallbaclk and light vehicle meta, it is a really good counter on some mid range maps but yeah it is for players who knows how to plays it and where it is good to play it. I agree that for the average player it cannot be seen as good as I see it.
I disagree with most of the Americans being top tier. While I can understand the reasoning I think its down to the threat rather than the ability of some e.g. most American infantry units in some divisions have no AT and require a specialist AT unit, most American divisions have poor cqc, most American units are hampered by quantity of troops, most American units rely on the BAR for 750m (standalone MGs & vehicles excepted). All this together shouid amount to a method of beating most of the Americans easily
@@markcollins6578 the lack of inf AT hurts a little yes. But US faction gets some of the most well rounded combined arms divisions (2nd and 4th) which makes them excellent in high level 1v1. Now, TF45 and Butler aren't that good though.
I think the categories should be like S - has strengths in all areas + has some op unique advantage over all the other divs, like SSB with its sniper inf, then A tier has all strong tabs but no overwhelming OP stuff, like 17SS, B tier has some strengths and some weaknesses balancing them, like Blindee, C tier has one or two strong sides but some weaknesses, like Tettau, and D tier has basically crippling weaknesses than make it easy to counter like 52 sich
@@Thehellhound100in what version of sd2 3 VDV is in top B tier lmao? People who made the tier list only play on forrest maps or something, it's just cqc all the way
@@mimile4462maybe in tournament setting yes but in quickplay it is still monstrous, especially in balanced build with super accurate arty. It doesn't have one weak tab and has tools for all cases, it's massively better than mid 7 mech or NZ or any Soviet basically
Hi. I guess as long as Western Allies get 1944 equipment/tools whereas some divs get older ones (1942 and even 1939 for some divs 😅) , WA will be OP . And i think that's what sd2 fanbase wants, considering the 7th nemesis votes results 😎😆
WTF!!!I Almost quit seeing the adds. PLEASE BLOCK THEM. So distracting, annoying and NAUSEATING! The WORST I have EVER seen! Had to go listen instead of watching.
The tierlist is based on a tierlist that was made by Koenig. We then improved it together. He deserves most of the credit here.
I didn't pay much attention (and I guess it is similar for koenig) to the lower tiers. There are probably some wrong placements there.
Keep in mind that it is difficult to rate divisions that do very different things. What is better between 3 US and dody? Impossible to say really. Also, we don't necessarly remember every unit in every divs so we might have made some mistakes.
Also, this tierlist is made for tournaments (and more specifically league). So some super specialized divs can be rated a lot higher than you would rate them for quick play/ranked since they can be very strong on the right map.
Hi. Maybe tierlists should take into account the map then?
@@ramaille-eg8sb I thought about that but it takes already wayyyyyyy too long to make a half decent tierlist.
@@mimile4462 🤣🤣🤣
Nah, you are actually trolling
Its been a while since someone made a tier list for SD2. Thanks ATKPWR!
They are pretty much irrelevant. Too many factors involved, such as play style, map and counter picks into certain incomes.
Disclaimer to all newer - mid players (basically anyone who has less than 600h). This tierlist is only applicable to 1vs1 tournament settings. Not quick play/ranked. Its a controled environment where both you, and the opponent pick maps and divisions and incomes (now you cant always pick all divisions or maps, iirc, some tournaments take an automatic pool of divisions or maps that you can take/ban). And there is a time limit, which again favours cheaper units which you can get more off to take ground. Another thing is, the maps that are being played 90% of the time are allied favoured (towns, closer ranges, yellow forest for sherman and bazookas)...you know, the ones where your tanks actually work and can pen a stug3...and these are - haroshaje, tsel, shnedrin, orasha east and orsha north. Axis tanks and IS2 are better at open maps like siano, sieldice, slutsk (2 variations with the hill still favour close range fights...), bobr (which has all ranges), brest west.
Lenina is never in the pool (rightfully so). Gora kalwaria, once in a blue moon (rightfully so), finnish maps are rarely played as well.
But they wont tell you any of this. They ll just say, 2nd blinde is A tier LMFAO. They ll say its your problem that you ended up on sieldice/siano/slutsk with 2nd blinde vs panthers in quick play and that its a skill issue.
Fyi, CMW are good (not OP) because you have all the basic tools in infantry, support, AA and arty tab, sometimes good airforce, but it comes down to shermans to stop panzergrenadiers from 1vs2 your infantry and firefly to actually kill panthers/tigers.
pzgrens will only 1v2 your infantry if you are attacking on the open, if not a pzgren will lose 2v1 in cover vs cover fights and lose 1v1 if attacking in no cover. This being a list for tournaments is true, but it seems you are using it to justify some bad plays (the pzgren 2v1, the "allied favored map pool", etc
@Thehellhound100 by "allied map pool" i mean where you are forced to put a tank at 750m or in yellow forest to use machine guns to support infantry and fight other tanks. In this range, sherman and t34 76 can kill stug3 and these are the only settings where allied mediums are "better" than stug. The other maps i mentioned, you have some close range spots, but its mostly 1500-2000 where axis tanks are better.
Edit starts here (i was typing something else...) :
Maybe i overexaggerated the power of pzgrens for an argument. And i've been hearing since MoS came out how allied inf is so op, yet they still lose to pzgrens lol. Sure, MoS allies go hard on snipers and CQC, but pzgrens still stand. And just fyi, without 50 cal on sherman or halftracks, axis wins every equal cover infantry engagement over 100m. I cant remember exactly, because i dont use them anymore, but i am pretty sure pzgrens beats 1lmg squads in cover - grenadiers, strelki, etc..
I am not justifying bad plays. I am just giving context to information being presented in the video. Without my comment, someone might actually take Tyurin, 3rd gv tank and 2nd blinde in que in quick play and end up on a 2km map against panthers. And they ll lose and think..."oh boy, i suck at this game" and maybe even quit playing the game.
@ Except on slutsk west and sianno, you will always need a lot of tanks that can do inf support (and even on those maps, it is still relevant). Siedlce, Tali, Bobr, slutsk and slutsk east are all regularly played in tournaments.
I agree with you that this tierlist is not really relevant outside of 1v1 tournaments but a lot of your criticisms are wrong.
@helpinghelper4151 as said, your takes about pzgrens are clearly not accurate. There is no need to exagerate them for an argument, allied (WA) divs are overrated in this tier list, but overrate pzgrens won't compensate that. They don't beat all allied squads 1v1: lose or have a lower DPS than equal price allied squads like rifles late, they beat 1v1 squads that cost less than them in equal cover and no, they don't beat defending inf in cover while they push in a 1v1 (grens, strelky, etc). If you are worried about someone getting wrong info due to this video, don't spread wrong info yourself
@@mimile4462 siano is played, sieldice too, but no one picks tyurin or 2nd blinde :) However, rest of the maps are rarely played...Or at least, they are rarely casted...i wonder why...maybe they end up in a stomp or in boring grindy match
There are so many divs tierlists are gonna take 5 hours soon
First, this tierlist is part of an excel sheet where you can see all the stats of the monthly's tournament. I put the tierlist in the sheet to compare to the ranking of the Winrates of the divs in monthies. The goal was to give an idea, not necessarly to make the best tierlist ever (mission impossible).
The most important there, is to take in account that the meta is about light vehicles on every maps even on the open field area. As Mimile said I purposed to him a first tier list that we discuss about and change some positions when we agreed.
The reasoning behind the tierlist, is what is good for tournaments after bans and on a determined map. Then some divisions that are good in quickplay cannot perform same in tourneys because you will play on a specific map where your opponent will choose the remaining (after bans) best div adapted to the map (in his pov). For exemple a div like 715th s not adapted to a map like Orsha East whereas in QP if you fall on Orsha E with 715th, you can do well because your opponent doesn't a good div, doesn't have the div adapted or if he has doesn't play well as you.
Then the reasoning is a bit more complex than ATK can express in his video, and it s normal ! A video can't long too much. And also we don't talk all about same things and some don't have the experience of tournaments and again it is normal.
But don't forget that Season 12 began and we are in the period of league games casted so maybe it is interesting to see what performs in tourneys (the goal of my excel sheet given to ATK that you will see soon).
Sad that the tierlist is purely based on competitive play, unfortunately this means nothing for 99% of the playerbase haha
Sadly, PvP takes precedence when the game does PvP.. and I suspect that the number of single-player individuals with this game is considerably less than 99%.. that number is highly suspect here. 50-60% I'll buy, but 99%? C'mon!
Most of the people who care enough to watch a video like this are comp players.
Bezugly is Б, Vyborg is В, Tyurin is T, Fedyunkin is Ф. Symbols are first cyrillic letters of their names. You always mix up B and V. Bezugly has 1 card of tigers with normal availability and 1 card of single nashorn (su-88). Its a vanguard/maverick deck, no depth, but has some power to it.
Oh dear, get yourself an ad blocker plugin for your browser :)
Finally!!! Thank you so much!
First 😂
Kind of suprised about division tierlist like month or 2 before new patch + new Nemesis. Hope for updated tierlist after that.
It's handy for the tournament tho
It's handy for the tournament tho
Not if the patch drops in the 2 first weeks @@tedarcher9120
It's handy for the tournament tho
It's handy for the tournament tho
I would put 2nd Pancelos in S tier aswell, that div is definetely cracked
Ah yes this will be a excellent reference for what divs to ban for my greenhorn tourney matches.
I like that CIABG is strong because due to sence of national pride, i will not ever stop playing it.
But i understand the frustratio of the enemy.
thanks for making this :)
Oof. Feels like a lot of these divs are getting by on 1-2 maps where they are good.
Opinions: (for fun)
184th is supposed to have a card of T-34s and a card of OT-34s. It had support from them IRL and is missing them here. It would fix *so* many problems with this deck.
29th Tank below 19th Tank seems odd to me. The 5 point slot is scary, but it can still fit a card of infantry over 19th without it. Beyond the Infantry slot costs, its really got a lot of good stuff to play with.
16th Panzer over 5th is criminal. 16th has *terrible* infantry and AT tabs. I know Knoeig was all about the Support / Arty / Air tabs, but the abysmal infantry and lack of AT guns drag it down so far.
1st Skijaeger's placement seems generous. 25th PGren conversely feels low.
3rd Tank just needs a few AP buffs and it will be back.
715th behind 44th Strelki? And 3rd mech over both?
26th over 97th is a little surprising, but both are really good.
you should show the units while talking about the divisions
Sucks to see Toulon so low but its really not hard to understand why, very static. Maybe giving the Maro's back their Molotov's might help a little teeny bit? Lets them perform a little better in their niche.
Great video-thanks ATK - any chance of a tier list for 10v10's ??? Would get some likes i feel - cheers
why don't you have adblock
I'll kill on the 52nd hill. It's almost all I play on 1v1 it's hard to use and rewarding when you win. But ya it deserves D I think if they just shifted the points around it'd get a bit better
Is it still good to start with Sd2 or do I better start with warno? Thx for any answer
Just a suggestion, but you are going to get MUCH better answers when talking to folks actively playing WarNo.. I'm fairly sure many of them are SD 2 veterans. I've not played that game yet.. and I suspect I'm typical on these types of videos/threads.
SD2 is a much better entry game than Warno.
the actual question is do you like ww2 or the Cold War setting better?
@@alargethud1230on the one day ww2 and on the other cold war 😂
Was there a formal reasoning/criteria system that came with this tier list or is it more of an 'experience-based vibes' deal? I'm not sure it's entirely internally consistent throughout.
It does also seem to lean a bit heavily into the 'Western Allies stronk' schtick IMO: yeah, some of their divisions are incredibly scary atm, but... 15th Scots and 6th SA in B? 2nd NZ and Guards Armoured in A?
I disagree these divisions have some of the most efficient tools in the entire game ( 17 Pounder , Cromwell,25 pounder …etc ) especially 6th SA have commando on most of their infantry , at guns and mortars not to mention the insane amount of tempest fighters with no proper weaknesses as so many other divisions have them . Most commonwealth divisions have these extremely effective tools that most axis units simply don’t have . As much as you judge the creators of the tier list on their apparent prejudices I can say the same for you’re ignorance.
@@bastiangemballa6255 What are you talking about? 6th SA have precisely zero commando units or Tempests?
Also, *your
Light vehicles = meta
If you manage to play well combined arms those divs are good. And deserve to be B.
Guard and 2nz are really cost-efficient divs. Don’t underestimate piat everywhere and shermans supported by light vehicles with m10 behind. And for bigger target you have 17pdr.
They are A tier, but we put them low A tier. It isn’t insane to put a div in A tier. It means just that it is meta and competitive for tournaments. Not meaning that they will shred whatever they face.
@@colonelkoenig42birhakeim42 Sure, light vehicles are very strong right now but this tier list seems to take a lot more factors into account than that e.g. Bronirana, Strachwitz and Koruck are absolutely stacked with light vehicles and 9th Kav is amazing for countering light vehicles and they're all ranked C/D tier. On the other hand, some of these Allied divisions have relatively fewer light vehicles available and the basic Commonwealth infantry in particular is incredibly mediocre.
In all seriousness though, it's basically impossible to make an uncontroversial tier list given how map/match-up dependent the game is, so fair play for giving us your thoughts. Still, I doubt we'll see you playing as 15th Scots in a tournament match any time soon.
How on Earth can Toulon be lower than 52. Sicherungs, Panzerverband Strachwitz and 19y Tankovy Korpus? Also 715th Infaterie is oddly low on the list.
Simply because Toulon has no vehicles at all. Has only 10 pz schrek max
Has no light AT gun after A phase and has no tanks after A phase.
How you manage a player who is playing with turans, t-34 76, stuart or pzIII combined with sdkfz, HT or recon vehicles ?
You can’t
Even when there is a skill gap or a favored map for Toulon you will struggle hardly or lose before you pull out a big arty gun.
19TK or Sicherungs can answer to this problem better and has map where they are good.
Toulon is bad, can’t do nothing in tournaments or even in QP.
It is not because we dislike the div. I love the originality of the div but it isn’t useful at all when you want to be serious.
On Earth Toulon is bad 😉😜
For 715th same argue except that you have enough light vehicles and pz schrek to sustain a combined arms push during A phase. After that you getting crushed. Because you used all your answers to light armor. Then 715th is competitive but only against divs that don’t have a lot vehicles. If your opponent doesn’t misspick you can’t pull out 715th seriously outside slutsk maps and Tali.
I can do the demonstration of struggling against light armor for 4Fsj, 91LL, 17SS, 28th jager
You will always have some opinion and never fully agree on lists like these so I think in general one is to focus on the divs that are significantly off from your perception when discussing. As slightly higher or lower is more rounding error imo. And I understand that the lower divs got less attention when making the list. But always fun to discuss. Overall I agree with most of it.
For this though I am suprised by the following and my comments:
1. Tatra, They got good stuff, they hace a nice varied toolbox with good amounts of cheap inf and light armor which is meta. It doesnt do this to top levels but should be upper half at least. Its decent.
352nd. This is worse, it can deal with enemy heavy and medium tanks but if your opponent does anything else you are screwed as you have shit infantry with poor support. I think its bottom tier above the F tier divs.
16th Panzer is the same as above where I would place it. It is the epitome of high price div. Its supposed to have a good airtab but almost all of its airunits have shitty bombloadouts even if the plane is good. It really breaks under any amount of pressure.
Alpini. They are a one trick pony. Sure if opponent cant deal with light armor is good but outside of that it just doesnt do anything good. Despite a good unit in cqc it being expensive and limited by not having any other cheaper unit supporting it it isnt amazing in the div. It can put on a lot of preassure with low calibre howitzers air and light armorspam which it does well but its very obvious what they will do and if it doesnt work they just crumble. As they need a onehit punch early as they wont even last as their good stuff runs out fast.
Rhyma, needs to be lower. They have jääkäri and cheap stuff thats it. I only ever see them do well on skillgap is big. Only really able to fight on heavy cqc maps against divs that dont do cqc well. So it works against bad divisions on right maps is my opinion.
MKB: I think this is the biggest miss on the list according to me. Their offmap is while nerfed still good but it just does t-34s and decent infantry with chebush being very price efficient. All while having a terrible counter to light / medium armor until B. where it goes to being ok not good. I think its similar to 6th territorial. Both have great inf but lacks agaisnt armor. MKB has better offmaps and airtab sure. But territorial is so much better at dealing with light armor which is the weakness of the divs. All while having better AA and arty outside offmaps.
3rd guards soviet were good because they had tons of shermans. This was during sherman busted op meta. That with some nice soviet inf and access to superheavy tank which was rarer than just made them topdog. But it was mainly shermans secondary inf and is-2 that made them good. And I would put them higher. They have good tank mix and decent inf which is enough for a solid mid division.
20th pgren should be lower its too niche on maps. feels like 21st is better well rounded with more med armor and wider array of tools. And isnt leaning on the crutch of a single good infcard and unicorn units.
358th I feel looks like it can do decent now with meta but i feel it still just continues to struggle like 6th corpul despite looking decent. They are limited outside of CQC and I feel shermans etc are their bane.
The FSJ divs i actually agree them being that high. At current level the inf is just great and the divs still has the tools to deal with armor and such.
6th SA should be a good bunch down. only having really the sherman m10 cadre to do stuff isnt enough. TF butler might be slightly lower as well its not as bad as SA though. Break here after 16th luftwaffe thats enough writing for me for now
For Tatra, my reasoning was not enough cqc, good armor but you run out of it in end of B phase, not really 2K outisde of the krupp and tiger but tiger meh, no AA at all. Planes made for A phase only. And only 20 mm spw. Only one card of pz gren with faust. Then for tournaments, and it is the only goal of this tierlist, you won't pull out tatra because you have plenty of better options.
The reasoning is the same for divs that higher than you think to be. I thought about 20 pzg, 352th, 6SA or 16pz only for open field maps, where they excel. Then they are enough good to pick them after 10 bans, that's why they are so high. But I agree that they are not good on other maps.
Again same reasoning for Ryhma, 358th, 3GMK, MGB or Alpini Monterosa, I assessed them in taking account that you will pull out those divs only on CQC maps, then they are pretty good and can be putted in top 10 of the best divs in cqc maps that's why they are there.
To end Butler is good and underrated, since fallbaclk and light vehicle meta, it is a really good counter on some mid range maps but yeah it is for players who knows how to plays it and where it is good to play it. I agree that for the average player it cannot be seen as good as I see it.
I hope at least t-34 gets reworked with less armor and apcr + better he instead
I disagree with most of the Americans being top tier. While I can understand the reasoning I think its down to the threat rather than the ability of some e.g. most American infantry units in some divisions have no AT and require a specialist AT unit, most American divisions have poor cqc, most American units are hampered by quantity of troops, most American units rely on the BAR for 750m (standalone MGs & vehicles excepted). All this together shouid amount to a method of beating most of the Americans easily
@@markcollins6578 the lack of inf AT hurts a little yes. But US faction gets some of the most well rounded combined arms divisions (2nd and 4th) which makes them excellent in high level 1v1. Now, TF45 and Butler aren't that good though.
And here I was expecting preview videos for the nemesis divs^^ Later then. Great tierlist.
I think the categories should be like S - has strengths in all areas + has some op unique advantage over all the other divs, like SSB with its sniper inf, then A tier has all strong tabs but no overwhelming OP stuff, like 17SS, B tier has some strengths and some weaknesses balancing them, like Blindee, C tier has one or two strong sides but some weaknesses, like Tettau, and D tier has basically crippling weaknesses than make it easy to counter like 52 sich
don't know what version of SD2 you are playing, but 4th FSJ is far from being S tier, have OP units or even strengths in all areas
@Thehellhound100 it still does, maybe cqc is not that op, but overall it is very strong in each area. It's maybe not op on every map anymore.
@@Thehellhound100in what version of sd2 3 VDV is in top B tier lmao? People who made the tier list only play on forrest maps or something, it's just cqc all the way
4FSJ S tier lmao. It was 2 patches ago. It isn't anymore.
@@mimile4462maybe in tournament setting yes but in quickplay it is still monstrous, especially in balanced build with super accurate arty. It doesn't have one weak tab and has tools for all cases, it's massively better than mid 7 mech or NZ or any Soviet basically
12. SS Panzer Division is at least A bro Just dont know the game
Guards Armoured being so high seems crazy to me. The infantry tab is too thin
👌
I guess if everyone involved pretended to not have an axis bias these takes would be disingenuous.
Western Allies are just straight up better.
@@SaintThomasAquinas1 Yes, that's a good example of what I was mentioning.
Hi. I guess as long as Western Allies get 1944 equipment/tools whereas some divs get older ones (1942 and even 1939 for some divs 😅) , WA will be OP . And i think that's what sd2 fanbase wants, considering the 7th nemesis votes results 😎😆
It's just a problem with the game and it's setting. If the game was set in summer 1943 the Axis would be a little better off.
WTF!!!I Almost quit seeing the adds. PLEASE BLOCK THEM. So distracting, annoying and NAUSEATING! The WORST I have EVER seen! Had to go listen instead of watching.
Use Brave instead of Chrome