It’s funny really because earlier during the year I placed a deposit on the Triumph 400X in order to make sure I would get the next one delivered to the dealership. However, when I test road the 400X a few days later I found I didn’t like the vibes, neither did I like the downshifts through the gearbox which just didn’t feel right. I cancelled my order and I managed to get my deposit back. I now have a 450 Guerrilla which feels like it has more low down torque and a better gearbox and less vibes. The 450 in ‘performance mode’ pulls really well low in the rev range whereas in ‘Eco mode’ it definitely toned down the power delivery. Yes the Triumph looks gorgeous and looks premium, but it just wasn’t for me.
I also put a deposit down on the 400X a year ago, but cancelled as I just knew I had no real use for a 400. Subsequently, I test rode both the Scrambler and the Speed and much preferred the latter. Thanks for your input👍😊
@@RocketMan_Moto Can you remind us how tall you are please? I'm 6'2" and when i look at the Speed / Scrambler i suspected the Speed would just be too small and went straight to the Scrambler. If I fit the Speed and it has a better front end than the Scrambler I may work well for me.
I’ve just bought one and have 500kms on it. I agree on the name issue, but disagree on the tires. I’ve been fanging mine around at 100-140 with no dramas 😊 Puts a smile on my dial every time! Last time I had this much fun on a bike was my 1989 TDR250! Thanks for the review 😊
As an owner of a Guerilla I feel I can comment having covered 2000 miles on the bike. Originally I looked at the Triumph Speed 400 but was put off by the amount of problems people were having with the bike and the parts not been available to fix the problems. I didn't like the exhaust on the Triumph either, all very subjective I know but it looks like it is a design off a Chinese bike. The Triumph felt slightly small in physical size for a 6 footer like me. The Guerilla- I would strongly disagree with you about the tyres. CEAT Tyres are a brand owned by Pirelli and one of the first things I noticed about the bike on a demo ride was how well it handled the Twisties giving plenty of grip and confidence other owners have highlighted this point to in their initial ride before purchase. The brakes, definitely not wooden in fact far from it, the braking performance is superb once the pads have bedded in. The build quality for the price is superb with good strong neat welds, plenty of paint on the vulnerable areas and an excellent finish and attention to detail. Certainly the likes of modern Honda could learn a thing or two from RE on how to screw a bike together that offers value for money. We are all different and perhaps have an allegiance to certain brands but my experience (and that of other owners) is a lot different to your take on the Guerilla. I would agree with you though that the colour scheme on the demo bike you had was awful!! 🙂👍
@@jonathandeeley6276 2k plus trouble free miles on my Triumph speed 400 and because of the way the internet is today you only hear of issues.....nobody comes to complain about a product that is fine hence you only hear the bad not the good...I am starting to hear of issues for the Enfield's too but I take it with a pinch of salt ....the one thing I will say is I swapped the front sprocket to one tooth higher and very little vibration until 85mph and has pulled on to where 115 would be on the clocks very under geared stock both speed and 400x...hope they haven't done the same with the guerilla.....a friend gets his guerilla in march so hopefully I get a back to back ride on both bikes.
Recently wanting to change my bike i was torn between the Guerilla, the Triumph and the Eliminator. I chose the later because of its low seat height, it's sporty engine, the lightest clutch I'd ever used, great brakes and comfort but to me it's Kawasaki build quality put it well ahead of the RE and the Triumph for its price the build quality is superb.
A drag race I've seen on RUclips of the Triumph 400 and 450 Guerrilla from a standing start shows the Guerrilla slowly pulling away from the 400 but then riding away into the distance in two back to back races. So the Guerrillia does appear to be at least as quick.
I think that the Royal Enfield looks better, and more true to the retro feel. The golden front fork is taking a Sports bike approach on the Triumph, and "I want to be everything approach" The RF, reminds med of a Yamaha RD 350, and it is beautiful 😊
I bought the speed 400 here in the states. Part of my purchase decision-making matrix is dealer support and availability. Not that much around here for Royal Enfield. The Triumph fit and finish is world class.
Thanks for the review,I believe the Ceat tyres are fitted as standard on all REs because bikes produced in India have to leave the factory fitted with Indian made tyres and Ceat are the best on offer.
Triumph is a premium brand, yet they still manage to produce some incredible value motorcycles. The first time I test-drove the Trident, I became an instant fan of the brand.
I agree with you about this sector of the market it's a really accessible part of the bike market now that Honda have joined the party, it answers some of the omissions of the Speed in its spec, centre stand longer front mudguard chai sensibly on the opposite side to the exhaust, the Speed has it for fuel capacity and servicing frequency, How's it coming on and off the throttle I find my Speed a bit jerky and the software of the dash is not the best. It's good to have competition in the segment though my city has a Triumph deale no Honda for 30 miles and the RE one is 10 miles away Triumph is better looking imo, twin clocks on any of these would look epic and a decent touring screen is required. I get an indicated 81mpg on the Speed but it like the speedo is way out more like mid 70s I might try the Honda and RE if there are the perfect accessories to make the bikes my ideal companion to be fair as an older man who has taken up motorcycles late in life my requirements differ I dare say but easy on the eye eady to ride economical and cheap to service and insure are high on my priorities, notably the RE fans avoid doing back to back comparisons lest their blinkers slip yes I'm talking to you Mr Fillingham.
Thanks for the review, refreshingly eloquent and hyperbole free as usual. I had a deposit down on a Scrambler 400X but did not like the heavy steering, firmly suspended front end. Like you I don't think the Enfield is as nicely finished, gear and brake levers look decidedly budget, but the dash shows how a bit of thought can add flair to the ubiquitous TFT solution that largely evades the Japanese brands. Coming from an NC750 I'm quite sensitive to weak front brakes so a test ride will be in order, if only my local RE dealer hadn't just closed and the next nearest one wasn't nearly 2 hours away...
That Triumph motor is just right. Good torque for a 400 single but it has a top end as well. Shows that have put a lot of hours in refining it. The KTM version is all top end not very useful. The RE motor is a good start but it needs more development.
My test ride revealed the Guerilla to be good but resulted in pins and needles in feet due to vibrations. I thought it had plenty of power -70mph on the motorway is easy enough, and it handles well.
I prefer the Guerrilla because the dealer is 400 metres from my home and it looks better for gravel, but here in Thailand the Speed costs 162,000 baht compared to 182,000 baht for the RE, probably because it's produced in Thailand.
Well...the CEAT tires on my 2023 Hunter 350 are just fine. RE has accomplished great strides these past 15-20 years which are quite impressive. The Hunter is a splendid bike, well behaved, politte, and a joy to ride on the back roads of Missouri. It brakes well, steers well, and the seat is nice to sit on. Could it benefit from a few more ponies and loose 30 pounds, of course, why not, but that is why I will be looking into the Guerilla in 2025. Plus, the nearest Triumph dealership is a five hour round trip drive.
I like the quote that the name becomes insignificant when you ride... i have the RE 411 scram... i hated the name.. "scram". Love the bike... and it does everything here in Australia, on and off road.
I don't know if it was ever used in Australia, but the word, "Scram(!)" was used as a verb in America to order someone to "leave immediately" (a bit rude, actually).
Thanks for the great video. After so many bikes, I am extremely happy with my current ADV350 and quite happy with my Hornet 750. I am looking for a very retro middle class sort of bike to replace my Hornet as it's too low and powerful. Your comparisons are nice, tempting, but still can't seem to make me say "Thats the one I've been looking for". I really love the way Kawasaki 900RS looks, especially the one with the gold rims. But it's too expensive. The 650rs is also nearly as nice but again quite expensive. My ideal would be the same sort of retro but maybe 500cc. Something like the old Honda CB500 (1975 model). I'll be the customer to the first one who makes it. Let's see.
If i was in the market, the prices are so close that the premium look/ feel of the triumph would win me over. .. I'm sure Honda may have something waiting in the wings in this segment, given the excellent value offered by the Hornet 750 and the upcoming Hornet 1000.
Living in a small city in which most streets are limited to 25 or 35 mph, and county 2-lane roads at 50 mph, I'm actually interested in the (hopefully upcoming for N. America) Honda GB350S. Yes, as an air-cooled single, it will be low on power, but I like the idea of owning a bike with such a simple engine, and that it's from Honda. My first new bike was a '71 CB350, so there's that element of nostalgia for a likely-final bike (while the nearest Triumph dealer is now 100 miles away).
@@kenhoward3512 You may not believe it, but that old CB350 had about 50% more power than the new one does. The old CB350 was a twin with 36hp, the new one is a single with 21hp.
Ridden both and preferred the Triumph on everything bar instruments, which RE wins hands down. Triumph much smoother at motorway speeds, but I guess most riders of these bikes will use them long distance touring.
I'd take the Triumph too, purely based on weight and looks. No digital screen can ever match the look of an analog dial, even if it's paired with a small LCD for the rest of your info.
We've come full circle, just like the 1950s there is now a growing market for (relatively) cheap commuter bikes , absolutely ideal city transport for those of us who have larger bikes but wanting something just for work and back and also for those on a budget that really doesn't want a scooter..very tempting and non intimidating for our female bikers too.
I’d take the speed 400. Thanks for 11 minutes and 16 seconds of escape RM yr melodious voice and presentation is very soothing. Excellent review as usual. Best to you and Mrs RM
So, I’ve ridden both Guerilla and Speed and ended up choosing speed 400 over guerilla. The MY 25 speed 400 is now sold in India with Verdestein tyres which are far superior to the Ceats and apollos . It also has adjustable levers and a much better seat increasing the seat height to 803 mm from last years 790mm. Front tyre profile has also been increased to 17/80/150 from previous 17/70/150. All things compared Speed is a better deal.. lighter, more flickable, bigger tank for slightly larger range, USD forks, adjustable levers, traction control , better tyres and superior fit and finish and less vibes. Before anyone says I am hating on RE.. I own an RE Thunderbird from 2013, still love it. But I am not a fanboy. Picking up the speed was a more pragmatic decision set in logic. Guerilla felt more accessible, quick to launch, sharper brakes, good looking but underperforming tyres. Panel gaps were annoying, the left mirror was loose, mirrors anyways were useless after 5000 rpm, hefty built. The colours were a bit off putting and the tripper dash is basically useless in current form. Have to keep the mobile screen on to cast maps.
As UK rider, I'd go for thr Triumph 400, most probably the X model.. And as I predicted the used market (in the UK) is full of very low mileage bikes with of course huge savings over new. If only there were CFMOTO 450MT about 😢
Yes, take advantage of the big depreciation in the UK. My Triumph dealer was just telling me this morning, however, that they’re starting to have problems with the 400s😬
@@RocketMan_Moto Yeah heard those roomers too, Ive put a deposit down on a CF450MT, and I have just found that dealer is closing, though it is part a larger dealership, So lets see how that goes 🥵
Anyone looking at these two bikes should also check out the Benelli Leoncino 500 - very similar to both but with a nicer sounding engine especially at idle, much better tyres, very good brakes and twin disc up front. Similar modern retro styling. Also similar pricing.
And if you're in one of the countries where they do know how to pronounce 'Guerrilla', it actually doesn't mean what it means in English. I find it a bit amusing to see it being launched in Spain, where it means conflict, not fighter. Enfield (like BSA) started as a British gun manufacturer and more recently has been a supplier of motorcycles to the Indian army, so the naming is consistent with their history. I wonder what Enfield were thinking of with that fuel tank. It's the same as on the Honda CB125F and that does 130mpg or more.
sounds like a very accurate description to me ,, i don't want a bike with a silly phone app ,, also the name is awful ,, but the triumph here in the uk is being dealt in due to problems , budget bikes ;;;
The motorcycle world I. 2025 is not going to be quite so bi-polar as you imagine, RM. Yes ghe affordable and the hyper expensive will still be available but Honda’s forthcoming 1000 Hornet SP at £10K could quite seriously blow a hole in the numbers for the expensive bikes.
An honest review. I have found the bike fun and works on motorways in NZ 110k speed. I have pushed the tyres, they held without any panic moments. Some of the things you have picked up on, I have not noticed or found but then I can't taste the hint of floral and earth in a bottle if wine. I don't have the developed pallet you obviously have......I'm not an Enfield boy however, too bloody long in the tooth for the tag " boy" I own more powerful bikes but I enjoy the light flickability and punch from this 450cc bike 😂
I have problems reading phone/nav screens with polarized sunglasses I picked up vacationing in Pt a couple of years ago. (that latter is irrelevant of course, lol). Do modern LCD screens clash with polarized sunglasses too? Generally speaking? I realize, of course, that the RUclips (video) issue is completely a different matter, but made me think about my sunglass conundrum while riding.
Yes, that's true. The flickering in this video is due to frame rate on my cameras, but I would imagine this TFT screen could be difficult to see through polarizing sunglasses.
The Enfield looks very 90's in that colour scheme. Looks a pretty good design overall. The Triumph look like a 'generic anything' machine. Doesn't float my boat. Subjective I know but a bit bland that Triumph so 'we' don't agree. But thanks for the great video. Chinese Triumph or Indian Royal Enfield ?
Bikers love to talk about passion. Passion is apparently engine vibrations, so-so reliability and service bills for Desmodromic valves. Well, I have a passion for getting places without having to take a car or spending too much money. Some of my friends decry this as not passion at all but they ride less than 1/5 of what I do in a year and put their toys away whenever the weather doesn’t support a t-shirt at stops. I love these small little things, if I wasn’t so tall and fat (195cm, 110kg) I’d in all probability be on one of these bikes right now rather than the tracer. In this discussion the bikes reflect their parent company/brand. The Triumph is for people in the west who have another vehicle. The RE is for people whom the bike itself is aspirational. Me? I’d take the RE because the screen looks sweet and at least they don’t put union flags on something made overseas. There’s a bigger discussion here. My ears prick up whenever I hear a moto journalist describe something as ‘dull’ or ‘boring’. Currently eyeing up a Vstrom 1050 as it seems like what I have a passion for (see above) and big enough. If I wanted excitement I’d fly a hotter paraglider than I can handle like some people I know. But they die and I live, must be my ‘passion’ for walking away from every damned landing.
I would not buy one,,, but I do like the fact it has a center stand(now they should be mandatory) Those Cert tyres are not the end of the world ,,,,that bike in particular I think the paint job really does suck... Like you I do like twin discs up front.. I do,nt know what you,v got against RE bikes ,,generally they are good bikes at a fair price
Neither bike is perfect and the Re answers some of the criticism I have of my Speed 400 ie centre stand short front mud guard chain hidden behind exhaust and no bobbin mounts. The Re i agree is short on range though the vlovk in isolation us nice but offset what would twin screens / clocks be like centralised and thst radistorblooks tacked on not integrated into the bike design. Probably the RE would be easy to improve tyres pads though the triumph could take a bigger sprocket it is a bit buzzy at 70 no regrets i am happy with my Speed and will make a few alterations as time goes on. Couplr of niggles with immobiliser light being on and the kill switch opersting a few times how i know not. Not sure which i would opt for after back to back riding though but i do like the long service intervals and having a dealer in my city which RE do not.
@@RocketMan_Moto..just been on website, looks like they only deliver to UK , but also more confusing in the press articles it does say deliveries to , France Belgium Italy and Spain .
@@RocketMan_Moto I'm just about okay with the asymmetry of having two different size clocks but a singular one that's offset just looks plain wrong! It also makes it appear as though you couldn't afford the higher spec model with a second clock regardless of whether such a model exists.
I don't think the exhaust suits the bike. Also, it should've had up side-down forks. The colour options are great, thoughan all black or mostly black option is missing. Not too bad.
It’s funny really because earlier during the year I placed a deposit on the Triumph 400X in order to make sure I would get the next one delivered to the dealership. However, when I test road the 400X a few days later I found I didn’t like the vibes, neither did I like the downshifts through the gearbox which just didn’t feel right. I cancelled my order and I managed to get my deposit back. I now have a 450 Guerrilla which feels like it has more low down torque and a better gearbox and less vibes. The 450 in ‘performance mode’ pulls really well low in the rev range whereas in ‘Eco mode’ it definitely toned down the power delivery. Yes the Triumph looks gorgeous and looks premium, but it just wasn’t for me.
I also put a deposit down on the 400X a year ago, but cancelled as I just knew I had no real use for a 400. Subsequently, I test rode both the Scrambler and the Speed and much preferred the latter. Thanks for your input👍😊
@@RocketMan_Moto Can you remind us how tall you are please? I'm 6'2" and when i look at the Speed / Scrambler i suspected the Speed would just be too small and went straight to the Scrambler. If I fit the Speed and it has a better front end than the Scrambler I may work well for me.
I’ve just bought one and have 500kms on it. I agree on the name issue, but disagree on the tires. I’ve been fanging mine around at 100-140 with no dramas 😊 Puts a smile on my dial every time! Last time I had this much fun on a bike was my 1989 TDR250! Thanks for the review 😊
The most important thing is that you’re enjoying it! Thanks for your input😊👍
As an owner of a Guerilla I feel I can comment having covered 2000 miles on the bike. Originally I looked at the Triumph Speed 400 but was put off by the amount of problems people were having with the bike and the parts not been available to fix the problems. I didn't like the exhaust on the Triumph either, all very subjective I know but it looks like it is a design off a Chinese bike. The Triumph felt slightly small in physical size for a 6 footer like me.
The Guerilla- I would strongly disagree with you about the tyres. CEAT Tyres are a brand owned by Pirelli and one of the first things I noticed about the bike on a demo ride was how well it handled the Twisties giving plenty of grip and confidence other owners have highlighted this point to in their initial ride before purchase.
The brakes, definitely not wooden in fact far from it, the braking performance is superb once the pads have bedded in. The build quality for the price is superb with good strong neat welds, plenty of paint on the vulnerable areas and an excellent finish and attention to detail. Certainly the likes of modern Honda could learn a thing or two from RE on how to screw a bike together that offers value for money.
We are all different and perhaps have an allegiance to certain brands but my experience (and that of other owners) is a lot different to your take on the Guerilla. I would agree with you though that the colour scheme on the demo bike you had was awful!! 🙂👍
Great input, thanks Jonathan. I agree that there have been issues with Triumph's 400s :)
@@jonathandeeley6276 2k plus trouble free miles on my Triumph speed 400 and because of the way the internet is today you only hear of issues.....nobody comes to complain about a product that is fine hence you only hear the bad not the good...I am starting to hear of issues for the Enfield's too but I take it with a pinch of salt ....the one thing I will say is I swapped the front sprocket to one tooth higher and very little vibration until 85mph and has pulled on to where 115 would be on the clocks very under geared stock both speed and 400x...hope they haven't done the same with the guerilla.....a friend gets his guerilla in march so hopefully I get a back to back ride on both bikes.
Recently wanting to change my bike i was torn between the Guerilla, the Triumph and the Eliminator. I chose the later because of its low seat height, it's sporty engine, the lightest clutch I'd ever used, great brakes and comfort but to me it's Kawasaki build quality put it well ahead of the RE and the Triumph for its price the build quality is superb.
I’d love to try the Eliminator👍😊
A drag race I've seen on RUclips of the Triumph 400 and 450 Guerrilla from a standing start shows the Guerrilla slowly pulling away from the 400 but then riding away into the distance in two back to back races. So the Guerrillia does appear to be at least as quick.
👍😊
The thing about cheap tyres is that the same lack of grip when pushing is also felt in situations where you need to stop REALLY quickly...
Exactly👍
I think that the Royal Enfield looks better, and more true to the retro feel.
The golden front fork is taking a Sports bike approach on the Triumph, and "I want to be everything approach"
The RF, reminds med of a Yamaha RD 350, and it is beautiful 😊
👍😊
I bought the speed 400 here in the states. Part of my purchase decision-making matrix is dealer support and availability. Not that much around here for Royal Enfield. The Triumph fit and finish is world class.
Great bike. Enjoy👍😊
Thanks for the review,I believe the Ceat tyres are fitted as standard on all REs because bikes produced in India have to leave the factory fitted with Indian made tyres and Ceat are the best on offer.
👍😊
But what about the 125/390 KTM Series or the Triumph 400 Series? They too are made in India and don't have these shit tires on.
Triumph is a premium brand, yet they still manage to produce some incredible value motorcycles. The first time I test-drove the Trident, I became an instant fan of the brand.
Yes, the Trident is very nice👍😊
yeah i think the street triple is the best value for performance out of any sportbike you can buy today.
Had one a few years ago, fabulous!
@@mariojorge547 Only because of Bajaj .
I agree with you about this sector of the market it's a really accessible part of the bike market now that Honda have joined the party, it answers some of the omissions of the Speed in its spec, centre stand longer front mudguard chai sensibly on the opposite side to the exhaust, the Speed has it for fuel capacity and servicing frequency, How's it coming on and off the throttle I find my Speed a bit jerky and the software of the dash is not the best.
It's good to have competition in the segment though my city has a Triumph deale no Honda for 30 miles and the RE one is 10 miles away Triumph is better looking imo, twin clocks on any of these would look epic and a decent touring screen is required.
I get an indicated 81mpg on the Speed but it like the speedo is way out more like mid 70s I might try the Honda and RE if there are the perfect accessories to make the bikes my ideal companion to be fair as an older man who has taken up motorcycles late in life my requirements differ I dare say but easy on the eye eady to ride economical and cheap to service and insure are high on my priorities, notably the RE fans avoid doing back to back comparisons lest their blinkers slip yes I'm talking to you Mr Fillingham.
Sounds great. Triumph’s parts and aftermarket put me off.
Triumph's 400s have had issues
I just bought a brand new Honda CL500 for 5500,-Eur...I am schocked how much fun it is riding..love it
I’d like to try one. Enjoy👍😊
@@markostano5222 new for that price? They start at 6.5k where I am 😅
Thanks for the review, refreshingly eloquent and hyperbole free as usual. I had a deposit down on a Scrambler 400X but did not like the heavy steering, firmly suspended front end. Like you I don't think the Enfield is as nicely finished, gear and brake levers look decidedly budget, but the dash shows how a bit of thought can add flair to the ubiquitous TFT solution that largely evades the Japanese brands. Coming from an NC750 I'm quite sensitive to weak front brakes so a test ride will be in order, if only my local RE dealer hadn't just closed and the next nearest one wasn't nearly 2 hours away...
Thanks for your input. Yes, if you like good brakes, you definitely need to test ride the Guerrilla first.
I change the handlebars on the X to rizoma fat bars ...love it ... the speed looks like a mini bike to me
That Triumph motor is just right. Good torque for a 400 single but it has a top end as well. Shows that have put a lot of hours in refining it. The KTM version is all top end not very useful. The RE motor is a good start but it needs more development.
Agreed👍😊
My test ride revealed the Guerilla to be good but resulted in pins and needles in feet due to vibrations. I thought it had plenty of power -70mph on the motorway is easy enough, and it handles well.
👍😊
Excellent review, cool looking bike!
Thanks, Pistol :)
I prefer the Guerrilla because the dealer is 400 metres from my home and it looks better for gravel, but here in Thailand the Speed costs 162,000 baht compared to 182,000 baht for the RE, probably because it's produced in Thailand.
Yes, I believe the Speed is a bit of a steal in Thailand
@RocketMan_Moto it is. If they brought out a Tiger 400 to take on the Himalayan and NX500 I'd buy it in an instant.
Well...the CEAT tires on my 2023 Hunter 350 are just fine. RE has accomplished great strides these past 15-20 years which are quite impressive. The Hunter is a splendid bike, well behaved, politte, and a joy to ride on the back roads of Missouri. It brakes well, steers well, and the seat is nice to sit on. Could it benefit from a few more ponies and loose 30 pounds, of course, why not, but that is why I will be looking into the Guerilla in 2025. Plus, the nearest Triumph dealership is a five hour round trip drive.
5 hours is no good. I totally understand why you prefer RE.
I like the quote that the name becomes insignificant when you ride... i have the RE 411 scram... i hated the name.. "scram".
Love the bike... and it does everything here in Australia, on and off road.
I don't know if it was ever used in Australia, but the word, "Scram(!)" was used as a verb in America to order someone to "leave immediately" (a bit rude, actually).
@kenhoward3512 it would be a word used occasionally here.. but not a lot.. probably on tv (50% of which comes from your studios/networks)
RE does like taking risks with the names of their bikes :)
That's true. We used to use the word in the school playground in the 1970s :)
Thanks for the great video. After so many bikes, I am extremely happy with my current ADV350 and quite happy with my Hornet 750. I am looking for a very retro middle class sort of bike to replace my Hornet as it's too low and powerful. Your comparisons are nice, tempting, but still can't seem to make me say "Thats the one I've been looking for". I really love the way Kawasaki 900RS looks, especially the one with the gold rims. But it's too expensive. The 650rs is also nearly as nice but again quite expensive. My ideal would be the same sort of retro but maybe 500cc. Something like the old Honda CB500 (1975 model). I'll be the customer to the first one who makes it. Let's see.
ADV & Hornet is a great combo. Thanks for your input👍😊
You should check the updated 650 for 2025, much better looking
If i was in the market, the prices are so close that the premium look/ feel of the triumph would win me over. .. I'm sure Honda may have something waiting in the wings in this segment, given the excellent value offered by the Hornet 750 and the upcoming Hornet 1000.
👍😊
Great review.. if I was in the market it would definitely be the Triumph for me 😊 Pete
Thanks, Pete. Yes, I’d go for the Triumph, too👍😊
Living in a small city in which most streets are limited to 25 or 35 mph, and county 2-lane roads at 50 mph, I'm actually interested in the (hopefully upcoming for N. America) Honda GB350S. Yes, as an air-cooled single, it will be low on power, but I like the idea of owning a bike with such a simple engine, and that it's from Honda. My first new bike was a '71 CB350, so there's that element of nostalgia for a likely-final bike (while the nearest Triumph dealer is now 100 miles away).
@@kenhoward3512 You may not believe it, but that old CB350 had about 50% more power than the new one does. The old CB350 was a twin with 36hp, the new one is a single with 21hp.
Yes, the new Honda does look interesting. I've been very happy with my 29hp ADV350 scooter for the last 3 years :)
Ridden both and preferred the Triumph on everything bar instruments, which RE wins hands down. Triumph much smoother at motorway speeds, but I guess most riders of these bikes will use them long distance touring.
I agree about the dash👍😊
I like the GB350 shown at EICMA, and might get one as a runaround for shopping and going to the beach here in the Algarve
Yes, looking forward to seeing it in person👍😊
I’m interested to hear how the new Honda offering will stack up against Speed 400. Hopefully you will get to try it out.
It's 10hp down, but... it's a Honda. I just hope my local dealer gets a demon bike.
I'd take the Triumph too, purely based on weight and looks. No digital screen can ever match the look of an analog dial, even if it's paired with a small LCD for the rest of your info.
👍😊
We've come full circle, just like the 1950s there is now a growing market for (relatively) cheap commuter bikes , absolutely ideal city transport for those of us who have larger bikes but wanting something just for work and back and also for those on a budget that really doesn't want a scooter..very tempting and non intimidating for our female bikers too.
Absolutely👍😊
Exactly right, I have a CB500 for commuting to work, 75 mpg, bullet-proof and saves mileage on my XSR900
I’d take the speed 400. Thanks for 11 minutes and 16 seconds of escape RM yr melodious voice and presentation is very soothing. Excellent review as usual. Best to you and Mrs RM
Thank you, Steve😊
So, I’ve ridden both Guerilla and Speed and ended up choosing speed 400 over guerilla. The MY 25 speed 400 is now sold in India with Verdestein tyres which are far superior to the Ceats and apollos . It also has adjustable levers and a much better seat increasing the seat height to 803 mm from last years 790mm. Front tyre profile has also been increased to 17/80/150 from previous 17/70/150.
All things compared Speed is a better deal.. lighter, more flickable, bigger tank for slightly larger range, USD forks, adjustable levers, traction control , better tyres and superior fit and finish and less vibes. Before anyone says I am hating on RE.. I own an RE Thunderbird from 2013, still love it. But I am not a fanboy. Picking up the speed was a more pragmatic decision set in logic.
Guerilla felt more accessible, quick to launch, sharper brakes, good looking but underperforming tyres. Panel gaps were annoying, the left mirror was loose, mirrors anyways were useless after 5000 rpm, hefty built. The colours were a bit off putting and the tripper dash is basically useless in current form. Have to keep the mobile screen on to cast maps.
Great input. Thanks and ride safe😊👍
Triumph looks nicer but had way more problems.
👍😊
care to share?
As UK rider, I'd go for thr Triumph 400, most probably the X model.. And as I predicted the used market (in the UK) is full of very low mileage bikes with of course huge savings over new. If only there were CFMOTO 450MT about 😢
Yes, take advantage of the big depreciation in the UK. My Triumph dealer was just telling me this morning, however, that they’re starting to have problems with the 400s😬
@@RocketMan_Moto Yeah heard those roomers too, Ive put a deposit down on a CF450MT, and I have just found that dealer is closing, though it is part a larger dealership, So lets see how that goes
🥵
Oh dear. Happening a lot in the UK at the moment :(
I've heard on YT (possibly Spite's Corner) that the front brake issues on RE stem mostly from the cheap master cylinder
Yes, I'm sure that's the case. The braking system has 4 or 5 'key components', each of which plays an important role
I believe the newer master cylinders are better. This Guerrilla seems to be the exception among the newer enfields in terms of its Wooden breaking.
Anyone looking at these two bikes should also check out the Benelli Leoncino 500 - very similar to both but with a nicer sounding engine especially at idle, much better tyres, very good brakes and twin disc up front. Similar modern retro styling. Also similar pricing.
Nice bike, but dealers are often hard to find, especially here in Portugal😊
Leoncino500 is expensive in our country compared to Speed400/Guerrilla 450. Also the cost of maintenance is higher
See you up at Alferce...😉 it's a lot greener up there!
Group ride on Wednesday is going through Alferce, I believe. Very pretty, if a bit chilly in winter :)
And if you're in one of the countries where they do know how to pronounce 'Guerrilla', it actually doesn't mean what it means in English. I find it a bit amusing to see it being launched in Spain, where it means conflict, not fighter. Enfield (like BSA) started as a British gun manufacturer and more recently has been a supplier of motorcycles to the Indian army, so the naming is consistent with their history.
I wonder what Enfield were thinking of with that fuel tank. It's the same as on the Honda CB125F and that does 130mpg or more.
Yep, tank is very small
sounds like a very accurate description to me ,, i don't want a bike with a silly phone app ,, also the name is awful ,, but the triumph here in the uk is being dealt in due to problems , budget bikes ;;;
Yes, the Triumph 400s have had issues
The motorcycle world I. 2025 is not going to be quite so bi-polar as you imagine, RM. Yes ghe affordable and the hyper expensive will still be available but Honda’s forthcoming 1000 Hornet SP at £10K could quite seriously blow a hole in the numbers for the expensive bikes.
Yes, it will be interesting to see how the Hornet 1000 shapes up
An honest review. I have found the bike fun and works on motorways in NZ 110k speed. I have pushed the tyres, they held without any panic moments. Some of the things you have picked up on, I have not noticed or found but then I can't taste the hint of floral and earth in a bottle if wine. I don't have the developed pallet you obviously have......I'm not an Enfield boy however, too bloody long in the tooth for the tag " boy" I own more powerful bikes but I enjoy the light flickability and punch from this 450cc bike 😂
Nice input. Thanks 👍😊
Not something I'd ever look at, but I like that a cheapo bike like this exists.
Yes👍😊
I have problems reading phone/nav screens with polarized sunglasses I picked up vacationing in Pt a couple of years ago. (that latter is irrelevant of course, lol). Do modern LCD screens clash with polarized sunglasses too? Generally speaking? I realize, of course, that the RUclips (video) issue is completely a different matter, but made me think about my sunglass conundrum while riding.
Yes, that's true. The flickering in this video is due to frame rate on my cameras, but I would imagine this TFT screen could be difficult to see through polarizing sunglasses.
The Enfield looks very 90's in that colour scheme. Looks a pretty good design overall.
The Triumph look like a 'generic anything' machine. Doesn't float my boat. Subjective I know but a bit bland that Triumph so 'we' don't agree. But thanks for the great video.
Chinese Triumph or Indian Royal Enfield ?
Indian triumph!
The Triumph is Indian, too😊👍
@RocketMan_Moto fairy nuff. My mistake. Not British though.........
I'd buy a z451, not really a fan of singles, but I've always tended to buy Kawasaki's and a few Honda's.
I prefer multi-cylinder setups, too, given the choice
My short list was the Hunter vs the Speed. I'm glad I went with Triumph, although it was a rough start with teething issues.
The Hunter is gorgeous…but 20hp is my worry
@hectorshouse7348 exactly! I'm in Los Angeles California where you need the ability to move quickly.
20hp is very limiting. Good call on the Speed👍😊
Sorry NOT use them for long distance touring!
Yes, I knew what you meant👍
I would go for the Triumph but the Lcd screen is for me a deal breaker
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These new triumphs are almost german in their lack of charisma
I disagree, but thanks for your input👍😊
Personally would get the cf moto 450 mt above either of them or of you want a naked the cf moto 450 nk.
Also a good option👍😊
Wish cfmoto made a 450CLX like their 700 series. the CL-C is nice but it's a cruiser.
I got my order in for the 450mt
Bikers love to talk about passion. Passion is apparently engine vibrations, so-so reliability and service bills for Desmodromic valves.
Well, I have a passion for getting places without having to take a car or spending too much money. Some of my friends decry this as not passion at all but they ride less than 1/5 of what I do in a year and put their toys away whenever the weather doesn’t support a t-shirt at stops. I love these small little things, if I wasn’t so tall and fat (195cm, 110kg) I’d in all probability be on one of these bikes right now rather than the tracer. In this discussion the bikes reflect their parent company/brand. The Triumph is for people in the west who have another vehicle. The RE is for people whom the bike itself is aspirational. Me? I’d take the RE because the screen looks sweet and at least they don’t put union flags on something made overseas.
There’s a bigger discussion here. My ears prick up whenever I hear a moto journalist describe something as ‘dull’ or ‘boring’. Currently eyeing up a Vstrom 1050 as it seems like what I have a passion for (see above) and big enough. If I wanted excitement I’d fly a hotter paraglider than I can handle like some people I know. But they die and I live, must be my ‘passion’ for walking away from every damned landing.
Fair points, well made. Thanks for your input :)
Whst about the cl500? Is that any good?
I haven't been able to try one yet, as my dealer doesn't have them on demonstration, but they do look good.
The “gloves mention” never got to you then ! 😂😂
Impervious to criticism, me😂
Have ya' tested a Husqvarna 401 yet?
Not yet
@@RocketMan_Moto Today I finally saw a Speed 400. I like small bikes, have a Vitpilen 401, but the Triumph is dinky, 3/4 the size of the Vit.
Actually the RE650 Bear should be the one to go !
Not so sure about the Bear, tbh. Looks to me like an Interceptor with knobbly tyres, but let's wait and see... :)
@RocketMan_Moto reinforced frame, better suspension and better looks, still prefer a double analog clock but I'm loosing the war...
Yes, we all need AI-controlled laser lights now, lol
The choice is simple: none of them. More brands are coming to the market with bikes under 500cc, and some of them are far more interesting.
The Chinese are coming?
I saw this yesterday. Why did you take it down. I don't think the RE or the Truimph can possibly be as good as my lighter 2018 KTM 390 Duke. Nick
I messed up and accidentally made it live this morning (not yesterday)😊
Might be a good run around machine. Not sure why RE are making such heavy small bikes. If this bike was 20+kg lighter it would be great.
Exactly. All the Enfields I’ve tried have been too heavy
Lightness are more expensive to make.
Yep, it’s all down to cost😉
I would not buy one,,, but I do like the fact it has a center stand(now they should be mandatory) Those Cert tyres are not the end of the world ,,,,that bike in particular I think the paint job really does suck... Like you I do like twin discs up front.. I do,nt know what you,v got against RE bikes ,,generally they are good bikes at a fair price
The prices used to be very competitive. Less so now🙁
Wow, it's quite heavy for a single cylinder small bike.
Yes🙁
Neither bike is perfect and the Re answers some of the criticism I have of my Speed 400 ie centre stand short front mud guard chain hidden behind exhaust and no bobbin mounts.
The Re i agree is short on range though the vlovk in isolation us nice but offset what would twin screens / clocks be like centralised and thst radistorblooks tacked on not integrated into the bike design.
Probably the RE would be easy to improve tyres pads though the triumph could take a bigger sprocket it is a bit buzzy at 70 no regrets i am happy with my Speed and will make a few alterations as time goes on.
Couplr of niggles with immobiliser light being on and the kill switch opersting a few times how i know not.
Not sure which i would opt for after back to back riding though but i do like the long service intervals and having a dealer in my city which RE do not.
Thanks for your input👍😊
Weird, I just watched this and it said it was posted 10 hours ago and I commented then. Back to the future?
Yes, I made a mess of this post. Sorry😬
@@RocketMan_Moto 🤣
The speed 400 is not as exciting to ride as the guerilla 450. Triumph just doesn’t hit the mark for me.
Fair enough. Thanks for your input :)
Enfields are too heavy. Simple. I’d go for the Speed 400 too
👍😊
The battle of the Indians...
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Triumph looks very boring to me. Ceat tyres aren't so bad imo. Guerilla for me. Triumph has too many problems
Fair enough. Thanks for your input :)
Never even notice that! Thought it was named after the monkey 🐒😂 did seem a strange choice!
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you're absolutely on point on the shortcomings. How come they can't giv better tire and mirrrors? such a large company!
👍🙁
Royal Enfield Big Monkey
Only less fun🤔
😅🤣 2:39
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if i was in the market for a knock about commuter bike i think rather surprisingly i would go for an electric , maybe a Maeving
Are Maevings available outside the UK?
An EV…with a cursed battery?🤣
@@RocketMan_Moto..just been on website, looks like they only deliver to UK , but also more confusing in the press articles it does say deliveries to , France Belgium Italy and Spain .
@@RocketMan_Moto They're available here in France. Waiting for my local dealer in Brittany to get the "S" model for a test ride.
@@hectorshouse7348top name 😂
An offset clock = instant deal-breaker.
Life must be hard…good luck👍
Offset messes with my OCD, which is why I’m concerned about the new Speed Twin 1200😬
@@RocketMan_Moto I'm just about okay with the asymmetry of having two different size clocks but a singular one that's offset just looks plain wrong! It also makes it appear as though you couldn't afford the higher spec model with a second clock regardless of whether such a model exists.
Oh the irony of a channel named "rocket man" complainjng about bikes being "150hp missiles"
I wasn’t complaining particularly
Single cylinder brrrrr brrrr brrr moped 🤮🤮
Economical, though :)
It's not worth 5.5K Euros IMO....I'd buy a 'previously owned' Honda 500 which is a better bike than both of them IMHO and considerably cheaper.
RE's prices have been creeping up these last few years and I agree that they're now less competitive than they used to be.
I don't think the exhaust suits the bike. Also, it should've had up side-down forks.
The colour options are great, thoughan all black or mostly black option is missing.
Not too bad.
Thanks for your input :)