That's right! I won't trust a Cat engine til it gets 200K on it if I didn't build it. lol I've had so many customers burnt that way. A fire-ringed head would make me feel a lot better about mystery engines.
Good to see you with another great episode of content and video with indepth details of this rebuilt. Greg you're definitely a excellent and goat of a true and real professional mechanic. Definitely your tutorial of explaining each and every step instructional and why you do things to turn out great work and workmanship. Do things in order and right the first and you don't have to worry about going back. Keeping your content coming hard and strong brotha sharing your knowledge and skills. Another great video brotha...💯👍🏽💪🏽🤜🏽👀⛓️👊🏽⛓️👀🤛🏽💪🏽👍🏽💯
Gday Mate Thank You very much for answering my question, I have never seen a head with fire rings buy it certainly makes sense after your excellent explanation. Obviously most head gasket failures occur through the fire ring on the head gasket and having the extra fire ring on the head would definitely almost eliminate this. Once again Thanks and keep up the great content
For the baby cummins 6bt 5.9 12v the up grades are MLS headgasket , o-ring, Fire ring. I like how you explained the o-ring creates a keystone to index the ring adding mechanical retention/capturing the ring, requiring shearing the ring for it to escape instead of just relying on friction. With big power do cats still push the fire ring insert out? 5.9s do, so fire rings were devloped replaceing the insert with a slightly larger round wire and adding a grove to the block side as well( if i understand cat setup correctly the 2nd grove would go in the flang of the cylinder liner). Resulting in the keystone effect top and bottom .
I'm really not into huge power like the competition pullers have. From what I understand (and this is old info), those big engines pushing 3000 hp or more were developed with o-rings built into special liners. I think they might have removed the fire-ring from the headgasket altogether. But it was never meant to be an over-the-road build. And I'm just not into that. I can appreciate it. But I don't really want to be any part of it. Whether it's show trucks or cars or engines - it doesn't matter - if it's not being used and useful, I just don't care too much. . . I respect working engines and trucks that are at the top of their game and reliable. So that's about the extent of my knowledge on the subject..
You were referring to the metal O ring as "wire". Are you sure it is not hollow? Industrial pumps sometimes use internally pressurized metal O rings. Internal gas pressure is creating in the ring with a reaction of powders inserted before closing ends together.
It's literally wire. Before you could buy a new casting o-ringed head from apc or any other manufacturers, a friend down the road got our local machine shop to start machining Cat heads with the groove for him. Then when he got them back, he'd insert the wire and fill the expansion gaps with block hard. We still do it that way if we're upgrading an engine with a good head and have the time to wait on the machine shop. But anyways, the wire is very small diameter. Not a tube. And you can see the splice where the wire butts into itself. APC is using the same size wire on their heads. (Or at least, very close to the same size.
IPD rebuild kits have a liner that has an outer raised edge to keep the fire ring in. Same kinda thing as the oring on head but it’s part of the liner.
I've seen and used them. (I'm not going to swear by anything beyond this point.) But from my recollection, it's not the same thing. The raised ring on the liner is behind the head gasket fire ring. The raised ring on the IPD kit sets more in the graphite area of the head gasket.
When I say I used them, I mean that I agreed to install parts that customers brought to me. Not my choice but I worked with them. IPD has some good products.
PG Adams in Vermont. They're the only place in the US that can make you custom rails to spec. Two rails about twelve feet long with plates for the inside at the splice and with shipping was about 2500 if i remember right'
Thanks. We're only a two-man shop with more work than we can handle as it is. I'm not giving out our info at this time. But thank you for wanting to work with us.
@@bigrig_smilespergallon So why bother making videos then? To show how good of a mechanic you are but can't help anyone let alone your subscribers? You could say we're months out inside of hiding your name. -1 subscriber
No. We've had to go back into an engine that's been fire-ringed before. The wire stays in the head and just use a wire wheel to clean the head surface. The head gasket has to be peeled off of the head because of the wire crimping into the firering of the head gasket.
Thanks for the breakdown Greg
The only way to get smiles for miles is to do it right the first time around…
My Cat head has been fire ring built ..
Spreading Love and good info…
That's right! I won't trust a Cat engine til it gets 200K on it if I didn't build it. lol I've had so many customers burnt that way. A fire-ringed head would make me feel a lot better about mystery engines.
Very good explanation!! Thank you.
Thank you
Good to see you with another great episode of content and video with indepth details of this rebuilt. Greg you're definitely a excellent and goat of a true and real professional mechanic. Definitely your tutorial of explaining each and every step instructional and why you do things to turn out great work and workmanship. Do things in order and right the first and you don't have to worry about going back. Keeping your content coming hard and strong brotha sharing your knowledge and skills. Another great video brotha...💯👍🏽💪🏽🤜🏽👀⛓️👊🏽⛓️👀🤛🏽💪🏽👍🏽💯
Thanks!
Gr8 FOOTAGE & in depth Explanations of rebuilding of engines & Trk Fabrication SKILLZ
@@scottycollins1829 FACTS AND EXACTLY
Who was the head manufacturer?
@@davidpack1803 American Premium Castings www.apcastings.com/
Gday Mate
Thank You very much for answering my question, I have never seen a head with fire rings buy it certainly makes sense after your excellent explanation.
Obviously most head gasket failures occur through the fire ring on the head gasket and having the extra fire ring on the head would definitely almost eliminate this.
Once again Thanks and keep up the great content
I was hoping you'd see this video. Definitely had your questions in mind when I made it.
@@bigrig_smilespergallon I was waiting for it, Thanks again
For the baby cummins 6bt 5.9 12v the up grades are MLS headgasket , o-ring, Fire ring.
I like how you explained the o-ring creates a keystone to index the ring adding mechanical retention/capturing the ring, requiring shearing the ring for it to escape instead of just relying on friction.
With big power do cats still push the fire ring insert out?
5.9s do, so fire rings were devloped replaceing the insert with a slightly larger round wire and adding a grove to the block side as well( if i understand cat setup correctly the 2nd grove would go in the flang of the cylinder liner). Resulting in the keystone effect top and bottom .
I'm really not into huge power like the competition pullers have. From what I understand (and this is old info), those big engines pushing 3000 hp or more were developed with o-rings built into special liners. I think they might have removed the fire-ring from the headgasket altogether. But it was never meant to be an over-the-road build. And I'm just not into that. I can appreciate it. But I don't really want to be any part of it. Whether it's show trucks or cars or engines - it doesn't matter - if it's not being used and useful, I just don't care too much. . . I respect working engines and trucks that are at the top of their game and reliable. So that's about the extent of my knowledge on the subject..
You were referring to the metal O ring as "wire". Are you sure it is not hollow? Industrial pumps sometimes use internally pressurized metal O rings. Internal gas pressure is creating in the ring with a reaction of powders inserted before closing ends together.
It's literally wire. Before you could buy a new casting o-ringed head from apc or any other manufacturers, a friend down the road got our local machine shop to start machining Cat heads with the groove for him. Then when he got them back, he'd insert the wire and fill the expansion gaps with block hard. We still do it that way if we're upgrading an engine with a good head and have the time to wait on the machine shop. But anyways, the wire is very small diameter. Not a tube. And you can see the splice where the wire butts into itself. APC is using the same size wire on their heads. (Or at least, very close to the same size.
IPD rebuild kits have a liner that has an outer raised edge to keep the fire ring in. Same kinda thing as the oring on head but it’s part of the liner.
I've seen and used them. (I'm not going to swear by anything beyond this point.) But from my recollection, it's not the same thing. The raised ring on the liner is behind the head gasket fire ring. The raised ring on the IPD kit sets more in the graphite area of the head gasket.
When I say I used them, I mean that I agreed to install parts that customers brought to me. Not my choice but I worked with them. IPD has some good products.
Where did you get the new frame rails from ? If you don’t mind how much were they ?
PG Adams in Vermont. They're the only place in the US that can make you custom rails to spec. Two rails about twelve feet long with plates for the inside at the splice and with shipping was about 2500 if i remember right'
Thank you for the response . Do they come pre drilled ?
@@Gmoney927 If you send your old rails to them or give them a blueprint, they can drill them. For me, that takes too long and costs too much.
Love the content, whats your shop name? I might be next on this series lol #5ekissues
Thanks. We're only a two-man shop with more work than we can handle as it is. I'm not giving out our info at this time. But thank you for wanting to work with us.
@@bigrig_smilespergallon So why bother making videos then? To show how good of a mechanic you are but can't help anyone let alone your subscribers? You could say we're months out inside of hiding your name. -1 subscriber
What was the
do the fire ring installed in the head ever need to be changed on rebuild?
No. We've had to go back into an engine that's been fire-ringed before. The wire stays in the head and just use a wire wheel to clean the head surface. The head gasket has to be peeled off of the head because of the wire crimping into the firering of the head gasket.
@@bigrig_smilespergallon I suspected that just good to hear a voice of expeirence to confirm, Thanks