As a seikopath, the bitter truth is, we wanted Seiko to improve their products but we never wanted them to charge more for it. We're greedy and we need to accept that with higher end product comes higher prices. We can't have it all.
@@BruceWilliams Agreed. I'd rather pay the slightly higher price now if it ends up being an investment into their future. They're no small brand of course, but if it means we can get more, higher quality products for less than the swiss still, I'm content.
Lol, I never wanted them to improve their products. I was fine just the way they were. Some small changes I would have liked would not have cost anything like not using stamped clasp and hollow end links on watches over $300. That would not have been asking much because the new Sumo for example (gen 3) still had the stamped clasp for double the price of gen 2. I could careless about the sapphire glass they added. I love my gen 2 Sumo.
Thats all BS about wearing the movement out! Show me all these 28800 bpm watches that have failed? Its nothing more than Seiko being a tight ass with their movements.
I love Seiko and I'm not thrilled with the price increases (Who is?), but I get it. My problem has been their movements. Within the past year I've purchased an SPB153 and a SPB317, both with the 6R35 movement. Both watches retail for right around $1k (thankfully not what I paid) which is not chump change. Overall, I'm happy with the build quality and looks of the watches but the regulation from the factory has been pretty bad. Both watches are running at -30 sec/day or worse which is outside of what Seiko states are the expected limits for a 6R. Yes, I can send them in to Seiko for regulation, but the watches are basically brand new, I shouldn't have to do that. I'd rather they cut back on the fancy dials and bezels or stop making a million different models and focus some of their efforts on improving their regulation from the factory. I'm not expecting COSC performance, but actually sticking within their own stated ranges would be a good place to start.
All watches are much more expensive now than a few years ago. It has nothing to do with Seiko. Not to mention some of those older iconic affordable Seiko were actually grey market.
It’s true. Rolex, omega, Tudor, oris, sinn, nomos, all the watch brands I’ve been following for the last 6-7 years have gone up in price, significantly. It’s the entire market, not just Seiko
I picked up this watch in Nagoya this year. The dial color is amazing, that's what sold me on it. It's a "Save the ocean" edition, with the dial representing glacier ice walls. Beautiful watch, thank you for reviewing it. Totally enjoy your channel!
At that price Seiko should be delivering more refined movements with 4hrz, immediate date change, more smooth crown operation and such. Of course delivering the details and finishing they always have. Seiko is my favorite brand.
Excellent video. Things have certainly changed, and it's reflected in the prices. I remember Lancaster PA, when I came to America in my younger days, bought a car and drove around the states for 4 months! I was in Pennsylvania in March, lots of snow around, had a slow skid, slipped off the road and some friendly Amish farmers helped me get the car back on the road. Wonderful people! Some of the other quirky place names like Intercourse and Bird-in-Hand will always remain in my memory!
Hey Parker from St. George! Currently going to college in state college Pennsylvania, you should let me know next time you go to Lancaster and have a meet up, maybe I could attend.
What tells me Seiko has gone very upmarket is the Seiko - not Grand Seiko - boutique in one of the premier retail locations in Sydney. It's large, well fitted out without being overly pretentious, and always well attended every time I walk by.
I've given up on Seiko... every Seiko I've owned (Tuna, Spring Drive Tuna, SBDC051, Turtle, Monster) have all had some QC issue. I've moved on to Longines for my affordable(ish) watches. Another brand that hits well above its price range is NOMOS... if you like their style. P.S. Bruce, nice Freudian slip at 4:20
I looked for so long for a Seiko that ticked every box, both for a diver and dress. I eventually went with Orient on both counts. So much value for money and very accurate movements!
I've got the SBDC127, just the standard non LE remake version of this watch and it is my favorite Seiko Diver to date. The case is insane, I love the lacquered bezel insert, and it's finally a MarineMaster look that is totally wearable. IMO it is Seiko Dive Watch perfected, and the spirtual (albeit expensive) successor to the SKX.
The lug to lug is 48,8mm, so not short for a 42mm watch. But the lugs curve down nicely and the bezel has a diameter of only 40,4mm. That's why the watch is wearing smaller than the official case diameter implies.
Oris, longines put more than 1 K prices on their watches with 3rd party movements: wow nice value!! Seiko upgrading prices because they realize they have put too low prices: damn, seiko is too expensive!
You're so right Bruce! This specific watch is in my wishlist because I've tried it on at my AD and it wears beautifully, but then I started to think a little bit more about it and I am no more sure to purchase it. I still think it looks great and love how it wears, but around 1.000€ for a 6R35 movement that in my personal experience is not so accurate? Mmmh... Not sure anymore.
I feel the same about GS as they have climbed the price ladder. It used to be easy to find an amazing Grand Seiko for around 5K, but most of their new releases are priced between 7-10K. When the secret gets out, the price goes up.
You can still find many GS watches under $5k. The problem is, with all the exposure and praise they are getting from RUclipsrs, it has driven up demand for their watches.
If you are looking for spec'd out value then look at microbrands, but I think Seiko still offers a considerable amount of value, with the exception that some diy on your end may be required when it comes to doing regulation after movement break in. My Seikos are running cosc times now and I couldn't be happier with them.
Love my SKX011j! Seiko is a monster. Great history. If you can't find a Seiko you like in your price range you may want to stick with your smartwatch. The prospex SPB147J1 is soo good and worth every dollar but you could spend less than half that and still have a great diver.
SEIKO really messed up when they got rid of the SKX and SARB watches. It was also a huge mistake to place everything under the Presage or Prospex line. I hate their logo or text on the dials.
You got easily the best dial out of the three. Veryyyy nice watch there sad the price is sooo steep. I paid $400 something Canadian after tax for an SRPD53.... pretty crazy
They will get crushed by the Swiss watches. Swiss watches dominate the $1,000 price group. Why would I want a 4r36 movement when I could get a ETA 2824 or a powermatic 80 for the same price.
I think almost all the brands are trying to up prices . It is a strategy because they are very worried about Chinese watches under 500 € . For example San Martin delivers very good quality for the price and it is a question of time they left the homages.
when you approach 2K price range, you can start to get COSC certified watches - Ball for example with their 904L Rolex used steel. So SEIKO need to reconsider at what end of the market they want to stay at.... but so long as people keep buying.. good for them...
I love Seiko, and never thought they were undervalued. I've been with Seiko ever since I got my first gen Monster back in my twenties. You got what you paid for..I can't count how many times I purchased a seiko diver just to find lint under the dial, lose minutes per day or stop working entirely in the middle of the night, bezels that wouldn't turn after a few weeks, hardlex crystals, etc. etc., the list goes on. It really was luck of the draw on budget seiko divers. I love Seiko, but like I said, I never once thought they punched above their price. I guess compared to fashion watches, then yes. Yes, people will argue that they have in house movements, but when that movement proves unreliable for time keeping, what's the point? Don't get me wrong I've had some gems from seiko. I had a 2nd gen monster that was damn near perfect in terms of finishing and timekeeping. If anything, Victorinox was the real leader in value 10 years ago...
I agree. I think Hamilton and Tissot have pretty much taken over the low price market segment now. Seiko still makes an occasional nice model. But I think they became most famous for their dials. When they want to, Seiko can make some really stunning looking watches. (e.g. SARB035, SARB033, SARB065, etc) The problem is they have spread themselves too thin. They do make some nice watches, but they also produce a lot of junk quality watches under $300.
doesn't everyone wait for the inevitable 50% off sale prices?.. thats the true retail price for most of these Seiko's but they chance their arm with the full retail price, catch a few people out..
As a diehard Seiko/Grand Seiko fan, I'm super disappointed with Seiko anymore. $1,300 for a Seiko diver is ridiculous considering the below average 6L35 movement which is a throwaway movement. Garage accuracy and low beat rate make it just savage for the price they're asking. GS going up to Rolex territory $8-12k is asinine too. Their bracelets don't complete with Rolex/Tudor/Omega and their auto movements are all over the place in accuracy. My 9S86 GS Hi Beat was awful at -5+8/day. My Tudor and Omega run at +1-2 seconds/day. Seiko is losing the market they created with all these price hikes. At least give me a hi beat 28,800 movement for $1000+! Bruce, Brent L Miller is such a great AD to deal with. I've purchased many watches through them. Brad and Ryan are the best! Great video as always, Bruce!
i bought a pre owned seiko monster Gen2 orange for 300 Singapore dollars years ago. not going to sell it but i think it cost probably 1 or2 times more nowadays. then earlier this year i purchased one of the last piece of seiko ginza Alpinist LE with the mosaic brick blue green dial for just under 1300 SG dollar .now it cost over 2000 SD dollars (probably not over 2000 USD yet)
Seiko has massive qc issues. Bracelet end links don’t match the cases. 6R movement’s are all over the shop with their regulation, alignment the list goes on, however, they do make very nice dials but they would only be in vogue for a short period of time before they look decidedly yesterday’s fashion.
I honestly don't mind paying more for a better quality product. 🤷🏼♂️ My only gripe against Seiko is I wish they offered dateless versions of their Divers - wouldn't cost any more to produce & would appeal to a bigger market.😏 That's a beautiful dial, shame about the date 🤣 Cheers Bruce 👍🏻👍🏻
I always buy grey market especially from the Middle East and pay $295 for King Turtles/Samurais, $585 for Sumos, $750 for WillardX/62MAS and bought a MM300 limited 140th for $2000. Add $25 for Fedex/DHL and 3 days later Bob's you're uncle.There are deals out there with correct box and papers. Not to mention that these days with the current exchange rate, I'm buying more from Japan. USD goes 30% further in Japan ATM.
Hi Bruce, you are holding my favorite model!! Back in the day, the Yen was worth 116 per dollar. Since then, the dollar deteriorated in value, so the Seiko prices went up. Today, the bargains are back, as the Yen is worth a record 144 per dollar. Now is the time to buy Japanese watches, especially on Japanese market web sites.
I love your old Marinemaster review. One of my favorite videos on YT, I reawatched it over dozen of times. But never purchased the watch. I believe some day I will wear mm300 on my wrist. Thank you, Bruce!
You are complaining about seikos costing more (with better materials, finishing and movements). But in the same timeframe, the MSRP on something like the Submariner almost trippled, and the dollar lost a LOT of buying power due to crazy inflation.
The problem is so called watch enthusiasts value chapter ring alignment over an all in-house trail blazing new movement. So side with micro brands, Go figure 🤷🏽♂️
Bought my gen2 monster for £219 in 2016 just because I loved the style. enjoyed it for many years, but found recently I just rarely wore it. Sold for £550. 6yrs of ownership and 3x purchase price. Tells you they were definitely underpriced.... Just picked up a green dial Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 from an AD for £465. I think Tissot and Hamilton provide the underpriced value at present.....
I agree. Tissot and Hamilton are on fire right now. So is Longines. Seiko kind of shot themselves in the foot when they stopped producing their SARB line of watches. Unfortunately they also began putting that ugly Prospex logo on all their divers. And also that ugly Presage branding on their dressier watches.
Unpopular opinion Seiko isn't that overpriced. All in house, most of the time way better finished than say a Hamilton or whatever, reliability to enth degree, easily regulated and easily serviceable movements even if they're not perfectly accurate from the factory and they deliver original design and are one of the most important brands historically. Imo everything from a basic turtle to the spb models to the MM300 for example are all great pieces.
Great video, Bruce. Love the dial of this watch and the MM200 case profile is my favorite for a diver watch. I don't know what it is but I simply love the case. Now, here is my opinion on Seiko and on this watch, and I know it may not be be relevant to many watch enthusiasts but for a watch over $1000 in comparison to some of the watches from many micro brands, I noticed the date change start way too early, not a big deal though. 70 hr of pwr reserve on the account of smoother hr hand sweep, not something that I like. the bracelet is ok but the clasp, can they reduce the price for the non real divers and remove the cheap dive extension and instead offer a clasp with slide on the fly extension? I still love seiko but I am slowly starting to simply just look at their new releases and walk away from considering buying any of them because of the so many better options from other brands out there. They really need to take a serious look at the business model and at the competitions. I don't mean to sound negative but this is my opinion and I apologize in advance if I offended any of the Seiko enthusiasts.
What is purported to be an analysis of a watch brand's marketing strategy going against the wishes of its fan - it reads Rolex, JLC, IWC. What am I missing or are we running out of contents?
Still a shame to have a sub 4hz movement at this price point. I don't mind in a $300 Orient, but 21600vph in $1000+ watch ? There's no point of having 70pr if you do a sub-standard speed movement. And no ceramic despite bezel being glossy as heck ?
I think that GS should up their prices beacuse in the terms of finish,quality, engineering and hand crafting nothing come close to GS.They passed Rolex and others eons ago,they are in AP and Patek league now!!
Wonder if this is also part of a push to get Grand Seiko some additional credibility. By closing the gap between the two brands, maybe it helps brand perception that Grand Seiko is in fact an appropriately priced luxury brand rather than an overpriced Seiko
If Seiko had more accurate movements I'd have all Seiko's tbh. Their dials are the most unique and best for the price and the finishing is pretty good. I'm just a sucker for accuracy (I know it's basically self-defeating to list after accuracy in automatic movements but 🤷🏻)
I have 9 citizens and 2 Bulovas...every time i go shopping for a seiko...i end up with something else...actually i just ordered a Orient Kamasu..........( the price range. )
lots of Microbrands are doing it better than Seiko at a lower price point. I think it's causing Seiko to cut corners on QC and quality. The funny thing is that a lot of Microbrands use Seiko movements through SII. I think Seiko is going to have to do a Swatch group move and restrict their movements to In house brands only if they want to keep the market share they are accustomed too. When Seiko starts getting into Swiss price range, why not go with a Swiss brand like Tissot, Hamilton, etc. with a higher quality Swiss movement.
...well, having present their price and what they have done to very iconic models, I am NOT a Seiko fan any more... Now, the value proposition is WAY BETTER in some Swiss made competitors, like CERTINA, but we can find brands like Doxa where you can find pieces with TOP GRADE calibers at LOWER PRICES, like the Doxa SUB 200, but we can find a better value proposition than Seiko in Japan in CITIZEN, with their better finished high beat calibers in the 9XXX series which, in some cases, are AMAZINGLY MAGENTIC RESISTANT, even more than what Omega states about their calibers, and these are already very serious words in terms of magnetic resistance. Meanwhile, the Seiko calibers, the 4R3X and 6RXX family are very poor finished which having present the prices they ask for their watches is unforgivable, specially in the 4R3X outfitted watches... We must never forget that the 4R3X caliber is the successor of the 7S26 caliber, the cheaper caliber for the Seiko 5 series. The POOR quality control is another question to mention, specially given the luxury entry level status they want to pretend via greater prices. Now Seiko is the HYPE proposition, so they can fool someone else...
I always saw Seiko as a bargain under $500. Once they began to move to the $1K, I began to look what the Swiss had in that price range. Tissot, Certina, Mido, Oris...no reason for me to look at Seiko anymore. 🤷♂️
Seiko does make some beautiful watches but I have had no luck with their movements. I know others have said they get better accuracy, and I'm not really an accuracy snob, but I have had Seikos that have been as much as 7 minutes off a day. I have had this issue with more than one watch so I've just decided to stay away from them. Especially when I can get a Hamilton in the same price range with greater accuracy.
Orient Star took that spot. Only the designs aren't as cool. Even it's most pricey option thier Moonphase at $945 is crazy looking. Most come under $300
Seiko’s movements are junk and don’t keep time very well in the long run. I wouldn’t buy anything below the 8L series when it comes to their movement lineup. Just save up and get Grand Seiko, superior in every way.
The fact they release "limited editions" day after day just to squeeze yet more money, while using their pretty bad movements, made me stop buying their watches. They are way way too greedy for my taste.
Seiko has swung too far in the opposite direction. They were under priced so their bad qc was accepted, now they are over priced and the bad qc is still accepted. Higher prices should bring higher quality not pressed clasps on $1500 watches.
The truth is that Seiko's QC is much worse in the last several years. The materials are less quality, luke in many if their new watches are shitty mineral crystal and not sapphire one, bad bands and watches that stop working without any issue. They even killed one of their best watches because it was cheap and sold so good - skx007/9. I have two Seiko watches, and unless it is a grand seiko, no more seiko for me.
Meanwhile it was all youtubers like you who constantly kept asking seiko WE NEED CERAMIC BEZELS! SAPPHIRE CRYSTALS! BETTER MOVEMENT! BETTER BRACELETS! APPLIED INDICES! more more more more! Seiko listened...... Seiko made you more EXPENSIVE watches..... Seiko isn't stupid they know the market, they're smart and adjust to the market cause they're smart.. LOOK AT THE RUclips SPHERE! It was cause of all yhe watch youtubers asking seiko for more , THATS WHERE we got the king turtle 🤡 I don't want your stupid king turtles and higher ended watches I want the bare bones turtle with aluminum inserts and the basic nh35 and the basic hardlex and all the fundamental basics that made it special RUclipsrs are who pumped seiko up to doing this is half of what i think happened, obviously it's also cause seiko USA wanted to seem more luxury cause that's how you survive in the western market .. appear to be lifestyle luxury brand! And seiko did artificial inflate the prices a bit, but that's not thr complete story.. It was youtubers flooding seiko fans heads with the idea that the watches could be even better with all these *even better materials and movs*, I love the mod community but this is what happens afterwards, deal with it
I paid less than 2x more for a Speedmaster Reduced in extremely good condition including a full service. It's -3 seconds after a week. I like Seiko but they are out of their minds on their prices and build quality. I'll wait 10 yrs when this will be a $400 watch.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
As a seikopath, the bitter truth is, we wanted Seiko to improve their products but we never wanted them to charge more for it. We're greedy and we need to accept that with higher end product comes higher prices. We can't have it all.
Brilliant point
This is a great point, i think our "greed" has come from microbrands that have double the specs for half the price.
The other thing is Seiko doesn't engage in frequent price increases. So we may moan and groan but the brand is forecasting years into the future
@@BruceWilliams Agreed. I'd rather pay the slightly higher price now if it ends up being an investment into their future. They're no small brand of course, but if it means we can get more, higher quality products for less than the swiss still, I'm content.
Lol, I never wanted them to improve their products. I was fine just the way they were. Some small changes I would have liked would not have cost anything like not using stamped clasp and hollow end links on watches over $300. That would not have been asking much because the new Sumo for example (gen 3) still had the stamped clasp for double the price of gen 2. I could careless about the sapphire glass they added. I love my gen 2 Sumo.
Everyone : Constantly parrots how Seiko is criminally undervalued.
Seiko: Finally decides to Increase their prices.
Everyone: Acts Surprised
Hahaha exactly
Such a great comment 👏
It’s so true
1:53 I'm ok with 3 Hz movement it is good for longevity of the movement. However we deserve snap date change and quality control at that price.
Thats all BS about wearing the movement out! Show me all these 28800 bpm watches that have failed? Its nothing more than Seiko being a tight ass with their movements.
The sentiments here may be correct, but I’d still rather pay the extra $300 for a really nice Seiko these days than an extra $5000 for a Rolex.
@pushslice 💯 couldn't agree more
Extra $8000 for a new Rolex. Yeap not $8000 better.
I love Seiko and I'm not thrilled with the price increases (Who is?), but I get it. My problem has been their movements. Within the past year I've purchased an SPB153 and a SPB317, both with the 6R35 movement. Both watches retail for right around $1k (thankfully not what I paid) which is not chump change. Overall, I'm happy with the build quality and looks of the watches but the regulation from the factory has been pretty bad. Both watches are running at -30 sec/day or worse which is outside of what Seiko states are the expected limits for a 6R. Yes, I can send them in to Seiko for regulation, but the watches are basically brand new, I shouldn't have to do that. I'd rather they cut back on the fancy dials and bezels or stop making a million different models and focus some of their efforts on improving their regulation from the factory. I'm not expecting COSC performance, but actually sticking within their own stated ranges would be a good place to start.
All watches are much more expensive now than a few years ago. It has nothing to do with Seiko. Not to mention some of those older iconic affordable Seiko were actually grey market.
It’s true. Rolex, omega, Tudor, oris, sinn, nomos, all the watch brands I’ve been following for the last 6-7 years have gone up in price, significantly. It’s the entire market, not just Seiko
Yea, good point. We are talking about older grey market prices. They’re just not as heavily discounted anymore
@@goldenarm009 exactly,in Australia a bronze Oris with a Selita movement is 3k+. Was about $2100 not long ago.
I picked up this watch in Nagoya this year. The dial color is amazing, that's what sold me on it. It's a "Save the ocean" edition, with the dial representing glacier ice walls. Beautiful watch, thank you for reviewing it. Totally enjoy your channel!
At that price Seiko should be delivering more refined movements with 4hrz, immediate date change, more smooth crown operation and such. Of course delivering the details and finishing they always have. Seiko is my favorite brand.
Excellent video. Things have certainly changed, and it's reflected in the prices. I remember Lancaster PA, when I came to America in my younger days, bought a car and drove around the states for 4 months! I was in Pennsylvania in March, lots of snow around, had a slow skid, slipped off the road and some friendly Amish farmers helped me get the car back on the road. Wonderful people! Some of the other quirky place names like Intercourse and Bird-in-Hand will always remain in my memory!
Hey Parker from St. George! Currently going to college in state college Pennsylvania, you should let me know next time you go to Lancaster and have a meet up, maybe I could attend.
What tells me Seiko has gone very upmarket is the Seiko - not Grand Seiko - boutique in one of the premier retail locations in Sydney. It's large, well fitted out without being overly pretentious, and always well attended every time I walk by.
yes especially for seiko noosa and eucalyptus their limited edition down under
Amish Country has some beautiful scenery! Love it. Hope you enjoyed it!
I've given up on Seiko... every Seiko I've owned (Tuna, Spring Drive Tuna, SBDC051, Turtle, Monster) have all had some QC issue. I've moved on to Longines for my affordable(ish) watches. Another brand that hits well above its price range is NOMOS... if you like their style.
P.S. Bruce, nice Freudian slip at 4:20
I collect Seiko quartz models now - good bang for buck and still not too pricey in the used market.
7a28, 7a38 and 7a48 are cool
Seiko Sawtooth is big tuna watch that has a slim profile.on of my top quartz watches.
I got into Seiko about three years ago and got the SARB 017, 033 and 035 all for $350.00 or less. Those days are definitely gone.
And SARG 009 & 011
I love the dial! But what I don‘t like in general is the krown at 4 o’clock!
I looked for so long for a Seiko that ticked every box, both for a diver and dress. I eventually went with Orient on both counts. So much value for money and very accurate movements!
What orient watch did you get?
@@trollyjays706 the Kamasu, it is very good
I've got the SBDC127, just the standard non LE remake version of this watch and it is my favorite Seiko Diver to date. The case is insane, I love the lacquered bezel insert, and it's finally a MarineMaster look that is totally wearable. IMO it is Seiko Dive Watch perfected, and the spirtual (albeit expensive) successor to the SKX.
@UCb-G4K4tparub-ph5Jqc7-w get out of here you lazy scammer.
What’s up with that date window?
I ordered the new Seiko Alpinist Rock Face 🤩
Thats a handsome piece, cool 👍🏻👍🏻
The lug to lug is 48,8mm, so not short for a 42mm watch. But the lugs curve down nicely and the bezel has a diameter of only 40,4mm. That's why the watch is wearing smaller than the official case diameter implies.
And we are back to the great days of seiko on this channel
Price ?
The bracelet has an incredible glitter but the date is distracting once you notice it
Looking at any seiko makes me happy 🤙🏻 some beautiful shots of that dial
Oris, longines put more than 1 K prices on their watches with 3rd party movements: wow nice value!!
Seiko upgrading prices because they realize they have put too low prices: damn, seiko is too expensive!
Do more live. I looked forward to it all the time.
You're so right Bruce! This specific watch is in my wishlist because I've tried it on at my AD and it wears beautifully, but then I started to think a little bit more about it and I am no more sure to purchase it. I still think it looks great and love how it wears, but around 1.000€ for a 6R35 movement that in my personal experience is not so accurate? Mmmh... Not sure anymore.
I feel the same about GS as they have climbed the price ladder. It used to be easy to find an amazing Grand Seiko for around 5K, but most of their new releases are priced between 7-10K. When the secret gets out, the price goes up.
Only cucks buy those watches
You can still find many GS watches under $5k. The problem is, with all the exposure and praise they are getting from RUclipsrs, it has driven up demand for their watches.
This SPB299 is truly beautiful...
If you are looking for spec'd out value then look at microbrands, but I think Seiko still offers a considerable amount of value, with the exception that some diy on your end may be required when it comes to doing regulation after movement break in. My Seikos are running cosc times now and I couldn't be happier with them.
Love my SKX011j! Seiko is a monster. Great history. If you can't find a Seiko you like in your price range you may want to stick with your smartwatch. The prospex SPB147J1 is soo good and worth every dollar but you could spend less than half that and still have a great diver.
I LOVE the skx011, I missed the boat on that so got the new orange gmt. I’m very happy
@@WonderofWatches the sunburst is luscious. I could see adding that.
SEIKO really messed up when they got rid of the SKX and SARB watches. It was also a huge mistake to place everything under the Presage or Prospex line. I hate their logo or text on the dials.
I enjoy my mm200, it wears great .
You got easily the best dial out of the three. Veryyyy nice watch there sad the price is sooo steep. I paid $400 something Canadian after tax for an SRPD53.... pretty crazy
Seiko is still the best in term of money and quality.
Damn that looks like a grand Seiko dial
Really like this one..seiko is making some great watches..still some affordable ones out there but everything is pricey these days
Seiko is intentionally moving up the market
They will get crushed by the Swiss watches. Swiss watches dominate the $1,000 price group. Why would I want a 4r36 movement when I could get a ETA 2824 or a powermatic 80 for the same price.
I think almost all the brands are trying to up prices . It is a strategy because they are very worried about Chinese watches under 500 € . For example San Martin delivers very good quality for the price and it is a question of time they left the homages.
This one reminds of SLA013 with the pattern of white birch.
when you approach 2K price range, you can start to get COSC certified watches - Ball for example with their 904L Rolex used steel. So SEIKO need to reconsider at what end of the market they want to stay at.... but so long as people keep buying.. good for them...
I love Seiko, and never thought they were undervalued. I've been with Seiko ever since I got my first gen Monster back in my twenties. You got what you paid for..I can't count how many times I purchased a seiko diver just to find lint under the dial, lose minutes per day or stop working entirely in the middle of the night, bezels that wouldn't turn after a few weeks, hardlex crystals, etc. etc., the list goes on. It really was luck of the draw on budget seiko divers. I love Seiko, but like I said, I never once thought they punched above their price. I guess compared to fashion watches, then yes. Yes, people will argue that they have in house movements, but when that movement proves unreliable for time keeping, what's the point? Don't get me wrong I've had some gems from seiko. I had a 2nd gen monster that was damn near perfect in terms of finishing and timekeeping. If anything, Victorinox was the real leader in value 10 years ago...
I agree. I think Hamilton and Tissot have pretty much taken over the low price market segment now. Seiko still makes an occasional nice model. But I think they became most famous for their dials. When they want to, Seiko can make some really stunning looking watches. (e.g. SARB035, SARB033, SARB065, etc) The problem is they have spread themselves too thin. They do make some nice watches, but they also produce a lot of junk quality watches under $300.
Well, they DO know how to do dials.
doesn't everyone wait for the inevitable 50% off sale prices?.. thats the true retail price for most of these Seiko's but they chance their arm with the full retail price, catch a few people out..
Lehnkester, if you will. haha, I'm from the area.
As a diehard Seiko/Grand Seiko fan, I'm super disappointed with Seiko anymore. $1,300 for a Seiko diver is ridiculous considering the below average 6L35 movement which is a throwaway movement. Garage accuracy and low beat rate make it just savage for the price they're asking. GS going up to Rolex territory $8-12k is asinine too. Their bracelets don't complete with Rolex/Tudor/Omega and their auto movements are all over the place in accuracy. My 9S86 GS Hi Beat was awful at -5+8/day. My Tudor and Omega run at +1-2 seconds/day. Seiko is losing the market they created with all these price hikes. At least give me a hi beat 28,800 movement for $1000+!
Bruce, Brent L Miller is such a great AD to deal with. I've purchased many watches through them. Brad and Ryan are the best! Great video as always, Bruce!
i bought a pre owned seiko monster Gen2 orange for 300 Singapore dollars years ago. not going to sell it but i think it cost probably 1 or2 times more nowadays. then earlier this year i purchased one of the last piece of seiko ginza Alpinist LE with the mosaic brick blue green dial for just under 1300 SG dollar .now it cost over 2000 SD dollars (probably not over 2000 USD yet)
Dial is beautiful, but I can't get over the date switching over...
Seiko has massive qc issues. Bracelet end links don’t match the cases. 6R movement’s are all over the shop with their regulation, alignment the list goes on, however, they do make very nice dials but they would only be in vogue for a short period of time before they look decidedly yesterday’s fashion.
I honestly don't mind paying more for a better quality product. 🤷🏼♂️
My only gripe against Seiko is I wish they offered dateless versions of their Divers - wouldn't cost any more to produce & would appeal to a bigger market.😏
That's a beautiful dial, shame about the date 🤣
Cheers Bruce 👍🏻👍🏻
I always buy grey market especially from the Middle East and pay $295 for King Turtles/Samurais, $585 for Sumos, $750 for WillardX/62MAS and bought a MM300 limited 140th for $2000. Add $25 for Fedex/DHL and 3 days later Bob's you're uncle.There are deals out there with correct box and papers. Not to mention that these days with the current exchange rate, I'm buying more from Japan. USD goes 30% further in Japan ATM.
Hey Christian, I'm in ME too (Dubai) which sites do you buy from - Sakura or through C24? I'm considering this SPB299 and some other Seiko models 😁
@@MotorsandCalibers eBay, Dealsguru1.
Hi Bruce, you are holding my favorite model!! Back in the day, the Yen was worth 116 per dollar. Since then, the dollar deteriorated in value, so the Seiko prices went up. Today, the bargains are back, as the Yen is worth a record 144 per dollar. Now is the time to buy Japanese watches, especially on Japanese market web sites.
And the locals here say Lancaster like: "lankster"
Try to get your hands on the new colorful omega aqua terras. That would be nice ❤
Orient is the new Seiko. :-)
I’m more concerned about the price of fuel and fuggin food nowadays. Of course Seiko prices are going up, so is everything else.
for me dial looks like face of ice wall from game of thrones
I love your old Marinemaster review. One of my favorite videos on YT, I reawatched it over dozen of times. But never purchased the watch. I believe some day I will wear mm300 on my wrist. Thank you, Bruce!
This model?????
You are complaining about seikos costing more (with better materials, finishing and movements). But in the same timeframe, the MSRP on something like the Submariner almost trippled, and the dollar lost a LOT of buying power due to crazy inflation.
The problem is so called watch enthusiasts value chapter ring alignment over an all in-house trail blazing new movement. So side with micro brands, Go figure 🤷🏽♂️
Bought my gen2 monster for £219 in 2016 just because I loved the style. enjoyed it for many years, but found recently I just rarely wore it. Sold for £550. 6yrs of ownership and 3x purchase price. Tells you they were definitely underpriced.... Just picked up a green dial Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 from an AD for £465. I think Tissot and Hamilton provide the underpriced value at present.....
I agree. Tissot and Hamilton are on fire right now. So is Longines. Seiko kind of shot themselves in the foot when they stopped producing their SARB line of watches. Unfortunately they also began putting that ugly Prospex logo on all their divers. And also that ugly Presage branding on their dressier watches.
Unpopular opinion Seiko isn't that overpriced. All in house, most of the time way better finished than say a Hamilton or whatever, reliability to enth degree, easily regulated and easily serviceable movements even if they're not perfectly accurate from the factory and they deliver original design and are one of the most important brands historically.
Imo everything from a basic turtle to the spb models to the MM300 for example are all great pieces.
Great video, Bruce. Love the dial of this watch and the MM200 case profile is my favorite for a diver watch. I don't know what it is but I simply love the case. Now, here is my opinion on Seiko and on this watch, and I know it may not be be relevant to many watch enthusiasts but for a watch over $1000 in comparison to some of the watches from many micro brands, I noticed the date change start way too early, not a big deal though. 70 hr of pwr reserve on the account of smoother hr hand sweep, not something that I like. the bracelet is ok but the clasp, can they reduce the price for the non real divers and remove the cheap dive extension and instead offer a clasp with slide on the fly extension? I still love seiko but I am slowly starting to simply just look at their new releases and walk away from considering buying any of them because of the so many better options from other brands out there. They really need to take a serious look at the business model and at the competitions. I don't mean to sound negative but this is my opinion and I apologize in advance if I offended any of the Seiko enthusiasts.
What is purported to be an analysis of a watch brand's marketing strategy going against the wishes of its fan - it reads Rolex, JLC, IWC.
What am I missing or are we running out of contents?
Still a shame to have a sub 4hz movement at this price point. I don't mind in a $300 Orient, but 21600vph in $1000+ watch ? There's no point of having 70pr if you do a sub-standard speed movement. And no ceramic despite bezel being glossy as heck ?
Seiko for people who can't afford luxury watches. Sekonda for those who can't afford designer watches 😅
For some reason I look at that 12 o'clock marker and I think Transformers
Great looking piece. Well balanced. Easy to read dial. Like the links as well.
Sweet dial buddy. But at that price I am getting a Nomos club for a few hundred more everyday.
Is orient becoming what Seiko was?
This watch surpasses my 16600 Sea Dweller as my favorite diver.
I think that GS should up their prices beacuse in the terms of finish,quality, engineering and hand crafting nothing come close to GS.They passed Rolex and others eons ago,they are in AP and Patek league now!!
Wonder if this is also part of a push to get Grand Seiko some additional credibility. By closing the gap between the two brands, maybe it helps brand perception that Grand Seiko is in fact an appropriately priced luxury brand rather than an overpriced Seiko
If Seiko had more accurate movements I'd have all Seiko's tbh. Their dials are the most unique and best for the price and the finishing is pretty good. I'm just a sucker for accuracy (I know it's basically self-defeating to list after accuracy in automatic movements but 🤷🏻)
Then you should buy a GS springdrive👍
@@frosty4peter I'm too poor for that lmfao my next watch is going to be a citizen HAQ
I have 9 citizens and 2 Bulovas...every time i go shopping for a seiko...i end up with something else...actually i just ordered a Orient Kamasu..........( the price range. )
lots of Microbrands are doing it better than Seiko at a lower price point. I think it's causing Seiko to cut corners on QC and quality. The funny thing is that a lot of Microbrands use Seiko movements through SII. I think Seiko is going to have to do a Swatch group move and restrict their movements to In house brands only if they want to keep the market share they are accustomed too. When Seiko starts getting into Swiss price range, why not go with a Swiss brand like Tissot, Hamilton, etc. with a higher quality Swiss movement.
...well, having present their price and what they have done to very iconic models, I am NOT a Seiko fan any more... Now, the value proposition is WAY BETTER in some Swiss made competitors, like CERTINA, but we can find brands like Doxa where you can find pieces with TOP GRADE calibers at LOWER PRICES, like the Doxa SUB 200, but we can find a better value proposition than Seiko in Japan in CITIZEN, with their better finished high beat calibers in the 9XXX series which, in some cases, are AMAZINGLY MAGENTIC RESISTANT, even more than what Omega states about their calibers, and these are already very serious words in terms of magnetic resistance. Meanwhile, the Seiko calibers, the 4R3X and 6RXX family are very poor finished which having present the prices they ask for their watches is unforgivable, specially in the 4R3X outfitted watches... We must never forget that the 4R3X caliber is the successor of the 7S26 caliber, the cheaper caliber for the Seiko 5 series. The POOR quality control is another question to mention, specially given the luxury entry level status they want to pretend via greater prices.
Now Seiko is the HYPE proposition, so they can fool someone else...
I always saw Seiko as a bargain under $500. Once they began to move to the $1K, I began to look what the Swiss had in that price range. Tissot, Certina, Mido, Oris...no reason for me to look at Seiko anymore. 🤷♂️
Seiko does make some beautiful watches but I have had no luck with their movements. I know others have said they get better accuracy, and I'm not really an accuracy snob, but I have had Seikos that have been as much as 7 minutes off a day. I have had this issue with more than one watch so I've just decided to stay away from them. Especially when I can get a Hamilton in the same price range with greater accuracy.
Oh man that's bad. 7 minutes sounds magnetized. I've had much better luck with 6rs than 4rs
Orient Star took that spot. Only the designs aren't as cool. Even it's most pricey option thier Moonphase at $945 is crazy looking. Most come under $300
Seiko went OD on the prices. They increased prices and lowered quality.
👀
Seiko’s movements are junk and don’t keep time very well in the long run. I wouldn’t buy anything below the 8L series when it comes to their movement lineup. Just save up and get Grand Seiko, superior in every way.
The fact they release "limited editions" day after day just to squeeze yet more money, while using their pretty bad movements, made me stop buying their watches. They are way way too greedy for my taste.
Seiko has swung too far in the opposite direction. They were under priced so their bad qc was accepted, now they are over priced and the bad qc is still accepted. Higher prices should bring higher quality not pressed clasps on $1500 watches.
That X logo kills that watch for me. So not classy.
The truth is that Seiko's QC is much worse in the last several years. The materials are less quality, luke in many if their new watches are shitty mineral crystal and not sapphire one, bad bands and watches that stop working without any issue. They even killed one of their best watches because it was cheap and sold so good - skx007/9. I have two Seiko watches, and unless it is a grand seiko, no more seiko for me.
Movements r very hard not snooth
Seiko is overpriced compared to what is available for the price now. Especially the automatics. Seiko mechanical movements are crap!
A little clickbaity...
they are just way overpriced for what they are now, i wont buy another and havent since 2018
Lank-is-ter
Meanwhile it was all youtubers like you who constantly kept asking seiko WE NEED CERAMIC BEZELS! SAPPHIRE CRYSTALS! BETTER MOVEMENT! BETTER BRACELETS! APPLIED INDICES! more more more more!
Seiko listened......
Seiko made you more EXPENSIVE watches.....
Seiko isn't stupid they know the market, they're smart and adjust to the market cause they're smart.. LOOK AT THE RUclips SPHERE! It was cause of all yhe watch youtubers asking seiko for more , THATS WHERE we got the king turtle 🤡
I don't want your stupid king turtles and higher ended watches I want the bare bones turtle with aluminum inserts and the basic nh35 and the basic hardlex and all the fundamental basics that made it special
RUclipsrs are who pumped seiko up to doing this is half of what i think happened, obviously it's also cause seiko USA wanted to seem more luxury cause that's how you survive in the western market .. appear to be lifestyle luxury brand! And seiko did artificial inflate the prices a bit, but that's not thr complete story..
It was youtubers flooding seiko fans heads with the idea that the watches could be even better with all these *even better materials and movs*, I love the mod community but this is what happens afterwards, deal with it
Seiko is overpriced and has QC issues. I prefer Steeldive, much better value-price ratio.
Before: Seiko are such a bargain!!
*Seiko raises prices*
Now: Seiko are a ripoff!
I paid less than 2x more for a Speedmaster Reduced in extremely good condition including a full service. It's -3 seconds after a week. I like Seiko but they are out of their minds on their prices and build quality. I'll wait 10 yrs when this will be a $400 watch.
Orient is the better Seiko.
Seiko 2022 👎🏽
I think Seiko are completely overpriced. I have so many microbrands that pound for pound outspec them completely.......