Hi guys, Thanks for your video About the color charts, theses values are not the color you should pick but more the average color of the grass. What is important isn't the hue or saturation but the luminance of theses color charts. To stay close to the physics you need to make sure that the albedo is correct. Meaning not too dark or too bright otherwise the balance between your diffuse and your reflection will wrong even if you got the correct ior. For example here some albedo Paper is around 0.6 White skin is around 0.46 Charcoal is around 0.04 In others word your values on your texture if you don't do metals should vary between 0.04 and 0.6. Metals are usually above 0.6 and closer to 0.8-0.98 Personnally I like to use the macbeth charts because you got all sort of color you may find in real life and you can use it to calibrate your color against it.
Possibly a dumb question but how would you use a MacBeth chart in something like Substance? Or do you mean if you took a picture for reference in the real world and use the chart somewhere in between that and substance?
@@infectoid666 So, view the color samples (grass, skin, rock) in luminance only, then pull up a properly calibrated MacBeth chart and also view that in luminance only. Find on the chart the nearest matching luminance sample. Then compare your albedo/diffuse color to those 2 values and set your luminance around those values with the distance from the sample value to MacBeth chart value being the clamp. so if the luminance of the sample (which is an average of all grass/stone/sand/clay) is off by .03 from sample to chart - then you can safely vary the luminance value of your color by + or - .03 Thats at least… how I do it. This is not “correct”
There is, actually, an easy way to tell if a material is metal or dielectric. The reflections of metals are the color of the metal. In dielectric materials, they are white, or based on the color of light striking the surface. Secondly, there are indeed materials that behave like metal, but aren't metals. Mylar and other plastics are perfect examples.
Metals can also be identified by their specularity: if the specular color is the same as the color of the object, it means it's metal. On the other hand, if the specular color is white no matter the object's color, it's not a metal.
I know that if you have the right physical value of pbr does not mean your work will be super realistic but I think just breaking the rules of physical world is not a good idea for a beginners. They should know first how does it work. I think it's a good practice to kinda know the right values first before altering it. It is very important to have foundation before changing it into much more artistic and appealing values.
Metals look like metals because they tint the reflection colour with the base colour. Dielectrics (non metals) don't. Imagine a really shiny yellow plastic object reflecting a white light. The reflection of the light will be white. Now imagine gold, the reflection is tinted goldy yellow. Metals are also just uniquely super reflective, and so the fresnel effect is much less apparent. They're very reflective no matter what the viewing angle is. Water is mirror like at grazing angles due to fresnel, mirrors are mirror like even at perpendicular angles. Before metalness (and still now), we would make metal materials' IOR value very high (like 20) to mimic this effect.
Regarding fresnel, the more you are at an angle (the less perpendicular) to a surface the more reflective it is, while the more perpendicular you are the less reflective it is. For those who didn't understand the example.
This information is very helpful for users like me who are just learning substance painter and PBR workflow.. PBR is on the hype these days so im kinda trying to figure out what exactly it is.. culdnt really get it n was confused, untill I went thru this video. thanks guys ! :)
not everyone are just guessing it when shading, if you know what you are doing there is no need to adjust shaders between shots or when using different lights.
The problem is there are a lot of artists who don't know how to use it corectly. Especially Albedo (Base Color) they use pure white or pure black colour in an Albedo. PBR limit rule is to use 20% white and 80% of black to prevent overexposured on the sun or extremely dark textures in a shadow.
How do you deal with an organic moving bending mesh? Example: Like a character's skin. If I throw a wood material on a simple character. The skin is moving through the material. The material isn't sticking in place on the skin like a texture does.
Sorry guys, but you shouldn't underrate metallic so brutally. Almost all material have a bit of metalness, exactly like for the roughness. Is more than saying if a mat is a metal or not, what it does is enhance the absorption of environment colors (cubemap) and secondly it's make shadows and contrast more strong. You can use this as a tool to get a more precise result, both in photorealistic and stylized. For instance, I consider it a vital channel to use on wood which, as far as my experience, should always have a metalness around between 0 and 0.1, obviously masked to create more backlit details. PBR have only few channels, don't throw one away like this :( Edit: oh, ok. You quite said that at the end of the video ✔
Had an asset pack whose contents were all missing metal maps. Stole the roughness map and ran it through a couple simple parameters to invert and scale the values, plugged that into metal. Scene looks much nicer after the fact.
I learned shading with vray so i'm used to a specular/glossy workflow and honestly i find that more intuitive than metallic/rough, talking just about semantics of course. I mean the glossy/rough thing is a non issue as you can just invert the maps but the specular workflow makes it clearer that it's just a map that specifies the amount of light reflected and glossy/rough says how scattered the reflection is.
I find metal/rough to be far worse because the diffuse and specular are combined into the base colour map. Essentially you have no diffuse control for metallic things and no specular control for non metallic things. At the end of the day it's an abstraction with less control and i don't like it personally
Paint is generally a dielectric material with 0 metalness i.e. black colour unless we have exceptions where the paint is is metallic paint where it has some metalness.
@@rayunited2010foryou depends, the exact same paint doesn't have the same aspect on any surfaces. that's what i was refering too (i guess, it's 2 years old now)
*2:01** and this **4:29** / **15:57* - compare that did you tell, or "its hard to look for IOR" (literally 1.333 water, 1.45-1.6 is glass, very hard to remember, huh), and than you have charts with metals values etc :-]
Yeah PBR has little to do with "metal/rough workflow" which is mostly what this video is about. PBR in substance is just a shader based on the Disney BRDF, then cut down further for games. Substance painter twisted the term for marketing purposes, it's really terrible in the way it's been twisted to seel a product and has continued to confused everyone. Actual PBR has little to do with albedo and metallness For the definition of PBR see this book written in 2004 www.pbr-book.org/
Very useful. Thank you guys. Question... I’m looking to create a caustic spectrum effect, (Arnold preferably) Any thoughts? I could do it years ago in Brazil... \m/
please do a video on next gen game arts although nowadays everything is next gen but to clarify that is it like futuristic sci fi thingy or the pbr workflow ...
Are you using a 2K screen? I'm using a 2k screen and Substance Painter 's UI is ridiculously small in 2k resolution . Literally I have to kiss the screen to see any text. Can you tell me how to tackle this if you had the same problem
Watch out for the "If its conducts electricity its a conductor and therefore a metal" tip as there are exceptions. Human skin and water both conduct electricity but neither are metals, from a shading standpoint.
Help! I'd like to do pbr models for a money, and have skills in 3ds max. Do i need to study other programms, or could i do it all in max? I don't have much time right now, and need some money. Thanks a lot! I'm self-taught and really don't have anyone to ask
I've been meaning to ask, so if I want to paint an object, how can I paint all of the texture (diffuse, normal, roughness, etc..) maps at once? I'm currently using Blender, and when I texture paint, it only allows me to paint each map separately.
Blender is not good even on painting single texture for handpainted stuff because of realy basic brush settings and not able to maintain proper layers. If you want to work with realistic shaders there is no way around Substance these days
In blender you would set up source layers and target layers. Is possible to set up but very hard. Blender 2.9 has stuff to do it properly I believe, but before that you would end up baking down layers at some point. I am not sure that it is worth putting together a sample blend file when there is substance and free alternatives to it. But I might put one together for blender 2.8.
Hmm, i had been confused about PBR rendering for some time, and i gotta say, im still somewhat confused. Like is PBR rendering simply the method of stacking maps to make new materials as opposed to whatever was used before? Is it rendering simply by making your maps more uniform regardless of whatever environment you put them in? Is it the method by which you apply certain maps, like are maps that are more or less "required" in PBR not found elsewhere? I didn't really find that explanation in this video
PBR in simple explanation is compilation of maps to create a material for your model there is two type of workflow Spec Gloss and Metal Rough.... for Spec Gloss you need Albedo, Specular, Gloss, Normal map for a game model, and for Metal Rough you need Albedo, Metalness ,Rougness(invert of glossines) ,Normal maps. For Beginner just use Metal Rough workflow
Albedo map : Color of your model, they are pure colot and dont have any shadows or AO shading in the map Metalness map : is just like a mask ,put white (1) or Metal parts in your model, and non metal in your model put black (0) in your map. Some people put gray (0.5) to create rust or certain stylish stuff like satin...the value always 1, 0, 0.5 Rougness map : how the light react whennhit your model ,Black means very glossy like wet things (focused light) White is super rough like rubber (scattered light) Normal map :standard normal map baked feom highres or generate using software like Ndo This four maps compile together in engine (ex. Marmoset, UE4) to create material feel and texture of your model. Ypu can check the PBR texture example in internet, mybe you can check Marmoset.co article about PBR, very good explanation
Yes, it is essentially a different method of controlling the same visual attributes of what came before, but in a far more easy to use fashion. There are some technical concessions relating to accuracy given the differences in each maps purpose and how information is distributed differently across colour channels, but this is negligible. I solidified my understanding of the differences and previous processes by watching a tutorial series focusing on the Arnold renderer by Mograph right here on RUclips. I suggest giving it a watch if want to gain a more in-depth idea of exactly which maps control the same visual attributes, how they are distributed, and the benefits PBR offers.
Due to the support this channel has shown for the Nazi regime in Ukraine, I am closing my subscription. Please keep politics and propaganda out of the Industry.
Hi guys,
Thanks for your video
About the color charts, theses values are not the color you should pick but more the average color of the grass. What is important isn't the hue or saturation but the luminance of theses color charts. To stay close to the physics you need to make sure that the albedo is correct. Meaning not too dark or too bright otherwise the balance between your diffuse and your reflection will wrong even if you got the correct ior.
For example here some albedo
Paper is around 0.6
White skin is around 0.46
Charcoal is around 0.04
In others word your values on your texture if you don't do metals should vary between 0.04 and 0.6. Metals are usually above 0.6 and closer to 0.8-0.98
Personnally I like to use the macbeth charts because you got all sort of color you may find in real life and you can use it to calibrate your color against it.
Harry Bardak absolutly Usefull.
I'm grinding Substance Designer & Painter to make my ArchViz projects better
Thanks for elaborating! This is very helpful and informative
Possibly a dumb question but how would you use a MacBeth chart in something like Substance? Or do you mean if you took a picture for reference in the real world and use the chart somewhere in between that and substance?
@@infectoid666 So, view the color samples (grass, skin, rock) in luminance only, then pull up a properly calibrated MacBeth chart and also view that in luminance only.
Find on the chart the nearest matching luminance sample.
Then compare your albedo/diffuse color to those 2 values and set your luminance around those values with the distance from the sample value to MacBeth chart value being the clamp.
so if the luminance of the sample (which is an average of all grass/stone/sand/clay) is off by .03 from sample to chart - then you can safely vary the luminance value of your color by + or - .03
Thats at least… how I do it. This is not “correct”
wow such a coincidence when I want to learn PBR and u guys upload a video 50mins later lol
Now can i learn pbr from u?
There is, actually, an easy way to tell if a material is metal or dielectric. The reflections of metals are the color of the metal. In dielectric materials, they are white, or based on the color of light striking the surface.
Secondly, there are indeed materials that behave like metal, but aren't metals. Mylar and other plastics are perfect examples.
Metals can also be identified by their specularity: if the specular color is the same as the color of the object, it means it's metal. On the other hand, if the specular color is white no matter the object's color, it's not a metal.
And if the specular color is neither white nor the color of the object there's something wrong in your nodes.
I know that if you have the right physical value of pbr does not mean your work will be super realistic but I think just breaking the rules of physical world is not a good idea for a beginners. They should know first how does it work. I think it's a good practice to kinda know the right values first before altering it. It is very important to have foundation before changing it into much more artistic and appealing values.
Absolutely! Definitely know what you're doing before you go crazy.
Pbr is love
Pbr is power
Metals look like metals because they tint the reflection colour with the base colour. Dielectrics (non metals) don't.
Imagine a really shiny yellow plastic object reflecting a white light. The reflection of the light will be white. Now imagine gold, the reflection is tinted goldy yellow.
Metals are also just uniquely super reflective, and so the fresnel effect is much less apparent. They're very reflective no matter what the viewing angle is. Water is mirror like at grazing angles due to fresnel, mirrors are mirror like even at perpendicular angles. Before metalness (and still now), we would make metal materials' IOR value very high (like 20) to mimic this effect.
This is a good and simple explanation of what makes metals look like metal. It is even helpful for 2D artists.
Great explanation and examples. I just looked up the acronym PBR for the first time. Now I have a good feel for what it is. Thanks!
Regarding fresnel, the more you are at an angle (the less perpendicular) to a surface the more reflective it is, while the more perpendicular you are the less reflective it is. For those who didn't understand the example.
This information is very helpful for users like me who are just learning substance painter and PBR workflow..
PBR is on the hype these days so im kinda trying to figure out what exactly it is.. culdnt really get it n was confused, untill I went thru this video. thanks guys ! :)
What about a video seeing the technical aspects of “x” game? I know you are into movies and vfx but will be nice to have it someday
not everyone are just guessing it when shading, if you know what you are doing there is no need to adjust shaders between shots or when using different lights.
i never seen people like you guys! wow it's just amazing and fun to watch
Thank you guys!
Thank you guys. Great informative and entertaining stuff!
The problem is there are a lot of artists who don't know how to use it corectly. Especially Albedo (Base Color) they use pure white or pure black colour in an Albedo. PBR limit rule is to use 20% white and 80% of black to prevent overexposured on the sun or extremely dark textures in a shadow.
How do you deal with an organic moving bending mesh? Example: Like a character's skin. If I throw a wood material on a simple character. The skin is moving through the material. The material isn't sticking in place on the skin like a texture does.
Sorry guys, but you shouldn't underrate metallic so brutally. Almost all material have a bit of metalness, exactly like for the roughness. Is more than saying if a mat is a metal or not, what it does is enhance the absorption of environment colors (cubemap) and secondly it's make shadows and contrast more strong. You can use this as a tool to get a more precise result, both in photorealistic and stylized. For instance, I consider it a vital channel to use on wood which, as far as my experience, should always have a metalness around between 0 and 0.1, obviously masked to create more backlit details. PBR have only few channels, don't throw one away like this :(
Edit: oh, ok. You quite said that at the end of the video ✔
Had an asset pack whose contents were all missing metal maps. Stole the roughness map and ran it through a couple simple parameters to invert and scale the values, plugged that into metal. Scene looks much nicer after the fact.
I learned shading with vray so i'm used to a specular/glossy workflow and honestly i find that more intuitive than metallic/rough, talking just about semantics of course. I mean the glossy/rough thing is a non issue as you can just invert the maps but the specular workflow makes it clearer that it's just a map that specifies the amount of light reflected and glossy/rough says how scattered the reflection is.
Epic games also sometimes use specular map besides roughness, and there's clearcoat with optional 2nd normal map.
Amen. thats in system. I got shadermap . like u said. its engne. I use UDK long ago now use EU4.
Great video appreciate the explanation!
Very important video on PBR.
I find metal/rough to be far worse because the diffuse and specular are combined into the base colour map. Essentially you have no diffuse control for metallic things and no specular control for non metallic things. At the end of the day it's an abstraction with less control and i don't like it personally
Thank you guys.
how do you manage the paint over metal ?
really hard to find how a paint is supposed to react in PBR
Paint is generally a dielectric material with 0 metalness i.e. black colour unless we have exceptions where the paint is is metallic paint where it has some metalness.
@@rayunited2010foryou depends, the exact same paint doesn't have the same aspect on any surfaces. that's what i was refering too (i guess, it's 2 years old now)
@@Kaiz3rNet I didn't understand your point.
substance should add randomize metal roughness color or some sort of A/B switch testing between values
*2:01** and this **4:29** / **15:57* - compare that did you tell, or "its hard to look for IOR" (literally 1.333 water, 1.45-1.6 is glass, very hard to remember, huh), and than you have charts with metals values etc :-]
Could you make a video where you discuss the pros and cons of different pbr render engines?
Can you guys explain how to use Substance for VFX - how to make shaders in substance for V-Ray, Arnold, Renderman including displacement? :)
At what luminosity do you create the base color? You still need to see the color and for that you need a light source.
Thanks! Really appreciated, though I understood a little :D
The important thing is not to mess up "PBR" with "metal/rough workflow". These are two different things
*They're watching*
Yeah PBR has little to do with "metal/rough workflow" which is mostly what this video is about. PBR in substance is just a shader based on the Disney BRDF, then cut down further for games. Substance painter twisted the term for marketing purposes, it's really terrible in the way it's been twisted to seel a product and has continued to confused everyone.
Actual PBR has little to do with albedo and metallness For the definition of PBR see this book written in 2004
www.pbr-book.org/
Very useful. Thank you guys. Question... I’m looking to create a caustic spectrum effect, (Arnold preferably) Any thoughts? I could do it years ago in Brazil... \m/
GREAT VID
Should we be adjusting IOR or does the metalness map take care of this?
DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY ROUGHNESS VALUE !?
:-)
Loool
Hey guys, quick tutorial on finding out a camera focal length and matching it in Zbrush?
What about Gloss and specular?
Thanks a lot!
You're welcome mark
"in a perfect world we wouldn't use normal map, we would displace everything!" And now who would have thought we will get there so quick with Unreal 5
please do a video on next gen game arts although nowadays everything is next gen but to clarify that is it like futuristic sci fi thingy or the pbr workflow ...
The next gen will be when PS5 released I think. RTX could be called nextgen too though.
Btw what are the usages of metalness between 0 and 1? I've seen some people use ~.5 when it comes to metallic (car) paint. Is it correct?
thin layer of dust on metallic surface, or if you want to change aesthetic you could do something like 0.85 instead of 1.
@@izvarzone hmmmm
tbh im not sure about dust layer, still learning
you should say something about system specs in order to PBR :D
But what if I want a green metal to reflect purple?
Are you using a 2K screen? I'm using a 2k screen and Substance Painter 's UI is ridiculously small in 2k resolution . Literally I have to kiss the screen to see any text. Can you tell me how to tackle this if you had the same problem
Watch out for the "If its conducts electricity its a conductor and therefore a metal" tip as there are exceptions. Human skin and water both conduct electricity but neither are metals, from a shading standpoint.
Water just conducts because there is stuff inside it. Distilled water is basically completel unconductive.
Help! I'd like to do pbr models for a money, and have skills in 3ds max. Do i need to study other programms, or could i do it all in max? I don't have much time right now, and need some money. Thanks a lot! I'm self-taught and really don't have anyone to ask
Yes
based
I've been meaning to ask, so if I want to paint an object, how can I paint all of the texture (diffuse, normal, roughness, etc..) maps at once? I'm currently using Blender, and when I texture paint, it only allows me to paint each map separately.
Blender is not good even on painting single texture for handpainted stuff because of realy basic brush settings and not able to maintain proper layers. If you want to work with realistic shaders there is no way around Substance these days
In blender you would set up source layers and target layers. Is possible to set up but very hard. Blender 2.9 has stuff to do it properly I believe, but before that you would end up baking down layers at some point. I am not sure that it is worth putting together a sample blend file when there is substance and free alternatives to it. But I might put one together for blender 2.8.
Hmm, i had been confused about PBR rendering for some time, and i gotta say, im still somewhat confused.
Like is PBR rendering simply the method of stacking maps to make new materials as opposed to whatever was used before? Is it rendering simply by making your maps more uniform regardless of whatever environment you put them in? Is it the method by which you apply certain maps, like are maps that are more or less "required" in PBR not found elsewhere? I didn't really find that explanation in this video
PBR in simple explanation is compilation of maps to create a material for your model there is two type of workflow Spec Gloss and Metal Rough.... for Spec Gloss you need Albedo, Specular, Gloss, Normal map for a game model, and for Metal Rough you need Albedo, Metalness ,Rougness(invert of glossines) ,Normal maps. For Beginner just use Metal Rough workflow
Albedo map : Color of your model, they are pure colot and dont have any shadows or AO shading in the map
Metalness map : is just like a mask ,put white (1) or Metal parts in your model, and non metal in your model put black (0) in your map. Some people put gray (0.5) to create rust or certain stylish stuff like satin...the value always 1, 0, 0.5
Rougness map : how the light react whennhit your model ,Black means very glossy like wet things (focused light) White is super rough like rubber (scattered light)
Normal map :standard normal map baked feom highres or generate using software like Ndo
This four maps compile together in engine (ex. Marmoset, UE4) to create material feel and texture of your model. Ypu can check the PBR texture example in internet, mybe you can check Marmoset.co article about PBR, very good explanation
Thank you for the explanation. I was assuming that it meant the stacking of maps to create a material, i just wanted to be sure.
@@BurakkuHishou its not stacking, but compiling those 4 maps to create material and texture feel in your model
Yes, it is essentially a different method of controlling the same visual attributes of what came before, but in a far more easy to use fashion. There are some technical concessions relating to accuracy given the differences in each maps purpose and how information is distributed differently across colour channels, but this is negligible.
I solidified my understanding of the differences and previous processes by watching a tutorial series focusing on the Arnold renderer by Mograph right here on RUclips. I suggest giving it a watch if want to gain a more in-depth idea of exactly which maps control the same visual attributes, how they are distributed, and the benefits PBR offers.
Every time you guys say "exactly" I can't help but hear Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap: ruclips.net/video/KOO5S4vxi0o/видео.html
Reupload?
No :)
hello to the random person who read this message
Hi 👋🏼
I see what you tring to do. But fukin reality/ Gamma wave is the prewants. . I want help
So many ads....
10 minutes in and no fucking real info... Dudes!
You pretend too know? So dont lie
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