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I'm not so sure about how Zack specifically survived his last stand, although the new Sleepezi video put incredible context to it. I'm very interested in Zack's nature before he opened the doors to Aerith's church. He seemed relaxed, which makes me think he was at least assured of Cloud's safety. That makes me wonder if Tseng and Cissnei played a part in a rescue, and that could be a big secret that Tseng might want to hide from Rufus. But then again, Rufus alone raises a million questions. Whatever is happening though, we need you on another one of those group podcasts to throw in your questions! Can't wait for that!!
My guess was that the whispers kept him alive as a kind of counterbalance to what cloud & the gang were doing But Cissnei was on her way to help Zack, so she may be involved in some way, but i don't think she'd be able to save him on her own. But we do need to get some closure with her at some point, so maybe we'll get to see her during the remake trilogy
Here is what I think: I don't think anyone "saved Zack" intentionally, on the contrary. I would say that Zack was KILLED intentionally. By the whispers. They were always there...he just couldn't see them. But now we see the exact same scene from the perspective of someone who can. So why would the whispers want Zack to die? Because for the simple reason that if zack does not die, cloud never becomes who he needs to be for the plot to even happen the way it was supposed to happen. if you play crisis core and also zacks last stand, his last DMW roll actually shows 3x Aerith. which is a full heal. but for some reason the heal never got to him and the DMW was malfunctioning and erasing his memories (giving them to the comatose cloud). the DMW being directly linked to zacks memories is also directly stated in crisis core. So zack was originally USED by the whispers as a scapegoat to forge Cloud into the person and also vessel he was supposed to become. Remember, at this point in time...in the original...sephiroth was already at the north crater...letting jenova doing all kinds of stuff for him to call meteor later. but what would happen if zack does not die and cloud stays comatose? NOBODY would try to oppose sephiroths plan since nobody would even witness anything that jenova does or that sephiroth tries to do...therefor nobody would stop him in the long run. the whispers NEEDED someone who would follow jenova, but also be manipulated enough by jenova for anything to happen as it should. resulting in sephiroths defeat paying a huge toll in the process (zack and aerith dying, geostigma etc). because thats the only way they had to save the planet. the whispers actually follow the will of the planet...without emotional attachments. they just go with the plan. and the plan was to save the planet...THEIR way. and for that they needed Cloud...not Zack, because zack would not be linked to jenova to even follow her and THEN stop sephiroth. Cloud would also need to have some of zacks memories to tie in Aerith who was also needed for the plan. But now...as you said: the whispers "died" through the actions of the party in remake. but they also exist outside of time...which means they actually disappear throughout time in general...meaning also at the point of zacks last stand, which he, seemingly would have survived without them interfering, since them being there or not is the ONLY change. the whispers KILLED zack or rather let him die purposefully so that cloud becomes who he is and stops sephiroth. not that zack is too "weak" or something. But zack wouldn't possibly know where sephiroth is and wouldn't be controled by jenova to the extent that he would follow her thinking he follows sephiroth. So if anything...zack being alife now is not a plan of sephiroth but maybe the one thing he COULDN'T possibly have calculated or taken into count. sephiroths plan succeeds or fails due to whether or not he can manipulate cloud into joining him. and the one person he doesn't want in that equasion, is zack. originally tifa was, after aeriths death, able to get to cloud and make him remember who he really is. thats why he tries to make him doubt tifa and his friends now (which is also shown in the rebirth trailer and also differs from the original in which he actually didn't try to make Cloud doubt tifa but only himself). he doesn't want cloud to remember zack or his true self. and thats why I believe zack will play a huge role in Cloud remembering who and what he is this time and possibly saving aerith.
Agreed with this. Zach would’ve survived on his own and this shows the fate made the effort to kill Zach. No one saved him. No one tried to save him. They were there to ensure he died.
I’ve always had this question as well after playing Remake. When you first beat it, I think the initial thought most of us had, was that our (the party’s) actions of defeating the whispers, indirectly saved Zack. Then around a month after Remake’s release, I started hearing the theories of the whispers messing with the Shinra troops, as a last ditch effort by the planet, to save Zack. However, after SleepEzi’s videos, I can see why Sephiroth would’ve saved Zack, especially if he had control of the whispers around that point. I don’t really know where I stand right now with it, but there’s definitely a lot of interesting theories out there. Definitely want to see Cissnei involved in Zack’s story going forward.
If you mean the "vessel" theory then yeah it's something i've spoken about a few times, the recent "Chasing Clouds" video touches on it a bit as well. Rebirth is a very sus title lol
I thought that the whispers only appear when moments that are core to the story happen, and also especially so when said individual have strong spirits that could go against fate. Zack having the whispers around always meant to me that this is Zack fighting with all he gots against shinra for his freedom. This moment being pivotable since it’s what makes cloud in ff7 cloud. So they were around because fate was like “yo this dude is really lively. Let’s just send some of our goons to make sure this dude doesn’t win” and when the crew in remake beat the big bastard of fate, zacks whippers during the fight vanished giving him the capability to possibly win which he ends up doing. At least that’s what I though.
There were a lot of fans and content creators who kinda jumped ship because of the whispers and zack. Their interpretation of remake was that zack died because the whispers made it happen and that this was canon all along, which to them cheapens his last stand. And it's kind of a shame that this was the reason they lost interest, because it is WAY more interesting to think that something wanted zack to survive, therefore the whispers go to intervene and course correct, but then are defeated and so zack survives. That's a very different way of thinking about it that is much better.
I'd say it's the planet using him as a counter-balance to the main party. One way or another, the main reason is that more of his hair needs to be harvested in Rebirth. Though I'm still trying to keep all versions straight here. In the OG, Zack dies AFTER carrying Cloud to near the edge of the ravine and coming back to check on him, but I don't think that's the case in CC. We see him carrying Cloud in both Remake AND the first Rebirth trailer, so IF the whispers were destroyed prior to that, then true, they couldn't have ensured his death this time around. Some have argued there's a purple whisper in that scene which indicates Sephiroth's control over events, but I don't see it.
I sure hope the Planet decides to include Elfe in the story at some point. Zack and Elfe in an expanded party alongside Cloud fighting Sephiroth sounds pretty cool.
FWIW, I'm pretty confident that it was Sephiroth who saved Zack. But, whether that was his specific intention is where things get murky. What I mean by that is that his motivation for saving Zack is probably not because he wants Zack to live, rather because he seeks to break Cloud's ties with Zack and Angeal's legacy just as he is trying to sever his connection with his friends (Tifa). The reason being so that Cloud will partake in Reunion.
I think Sephiroth is becoming a good guy. Is he really trying to sever Cloud's relationship with his friends? We know so little so far that I think Sephiroth is trying to undo the damage he caused and really wanted to save Zack.
@@TheDigitalDecade your argument doesn't even make sense because everything that happened in the remake had nothing to do with the original game at all.
Probably the sephiroth theory is the most likely since we seen him absorb fate after the party defeated it. But one other idea is that the planet itself saved zack as a last ditch effort. It’s almost like it hit the last resort button. Maybe there’s only one other way they win this time around. And zack has to be alive in order for them to do it
I agree, Sephiroth is definitely the most likely. It just feels very suspicious that the whispers are there before anything happens, if it was an accident it would just be a case of the huge singularity explosion stopped the troops who ambush Zack from ambushing him at the end of the last stand. So someone definitely messed around, and yeah, probably Sephiroth. But maybe not! lol
Idk about "saved" during the last stand moment but I think he's at least gonna get involved with Rufus & the Turks Something people forget is that Tseng has a lot of reasons to save him & that his alliance with Rufus give him the means the protect him,. Tseng is his friend, Zack asked him to keep an eye on Aerith for him & there's also the fact that he still has Aerith's 88 letters to give him, something he never got to do in the OG timeline & may need some closure (which remind me that the collector edition of CCR contained Aerith's letters. The devs really want us to remind us of their existence). Zack would also possibly try to contact Tseng concerning her whereabouts. Rufus picking up Zack can make sense because in Remake, we see him asking Cloud if he was a SOLDIER & remind him that he's supposed to work for the company. When we take the context of Remake, Shinra is trying to restart a war with Wutaï, Midgar has "officially" sustained 3 terrorists attacks & there's internal strife in the company. There's no notable 1st SOLDIERs around & Rufus officially, can only rely on 4 Turks while Heidegger, Scarlet & Hojo have the army & their technologies on hands. So getting 1st SOLDIERs on his side to balance things out in term of power in the company & in-case a war start to unfold isn't a bad idea. There's also the fact that Zack has S-cells in him to so maybe he could believe to be one of the guy who could lead him to Sephiroth at one point. (Which may fit into Sephiroth's plan as he could at one point meet Cloud again & the encounter could damage his psyche, making things worse for him compared to OG)
Wasn't there a race condition at the end of Crisis Core where the Turks (Cisnei in particular) get sent out to find Zack before the Shinra Army find him? And of course, the Turks and Rufus and linked... This is an interesting line of possibility.
The answer is Sephiroth. Everyone keeps thinking the Seph we fight at the end of remake is up to sinister actions. But I say nay. This new Sephiroth is trying to right all the wrongs he has done and is trying to put an end to Jenova once and for all. My theory is he is the Sephiroth from Advent Children, and when Aeriths ghost cast Great Gospel to heal everyone’s Geostigma, Sephiroth’s corrupted cells was cleansed or maybe weakened enough for him to fully take back control of his mind from Jenova. So in order to complete this task he will need Cloud, Zack, and Aerith alive. I also think he will be a playable character in the last game. And Genesis and Weiss will also be heavily involved as the main antagonists along with the original Sephiroth. Either way I see a Sephiroth vs Sephiroth showdown in the future of this remake series.
Well, seeing as the Whispers' role was to make sure the original story occurred, when the party fought and defeat them in Singularity, the Whispers were unable to make sure Zack died when he fought the Shinra troops.
Given that the four whispers are always depicted in Sephiroth's official art for remake, and there are exactly 4 whispers at Zack's scene while all the other ones are doing the bidding and following the commands given to them by the planet/jenova/whatever... I'd say Sephiroth did. Also if you go through the entire game with the context of Zack being alive, it makes a lot more sense. Every scene the Ultimania Omega written by Umemora (sp?) where Zack speaks to Cloud in Midgar is literally replaced with Sephiroth speaking, and then some. As for who saves them, Crisis Core puts in that the turks have orders to save Zack. Conveniently, Cissinei is placed by the church a few days before Cloud is found alone in Sector 7's train station. Not only that, but she's attacked in what becomes a "high speed chase through Midgar." If Zack suddenly had to leave Cloud, he'd leave the sword with Cloud and run off to play the hero. Cloud is found October 4th. Cissinei is at the church October 3rd. It also points out the Turks in exile (aka all the extra turks not from the OG) are fighting Jade Weapon at Icicle Inn on the same day as the first reactor bombing, December 12th. As for the crying in the church, apparently, the Avalanche leader was executed in Sector 5 the same day or the day before Cissinei shows up at the church to be attacked, October 3rd or 2nd. These foes are "Anti-Soldier Ravens" from Avalanche.
I feel like the Remake is implying the Whispers killed Zack in the first place, after you asked "Why are they there?" Zack was always strong enough to win. After the Whispers were dispersed HE DID WIN. They're the reason he died. Cloud's actions in "the future" undid what the Whispers did to Zack in the past, and allowed Zack to live. Creating a New Timeline from the first point where the Whispers decided to interfere. The Original FF7 was created by the design of "Someone" who was guiding the whispers to kill Zack and set the story in motion.
But didn't Zack survive the stand in the OG? he died after while carrying cloud. He got gunned down by the 2 or 3 soldiers following him. The whispers were gone before Zack carried cloud. So is it possible the whispers kept Zack alive from the stand so that he can carry cloud and save him from the few soldiers that follow? Which would mean nothing's changed.
But we see Zack reaching the outside of Midgar in the first Rebirth trailer and we see him at the church at the end of the Intermission DLC which are both after the point of him being gunned down. I think it's one of two things; 1. The whisper explosion potentially stopped the remaining soldiers ambushing Zack so he lives. 2. Someone changed something so he survives. But either way, i'm almost certain that Zack is alive going forwards.
@@Sector6UK right. that first trailer he's carrying cloud. Possible those few soldiers that catch up to them in the OG still do?? And the scene at the church, has that been confirmed that's after or could it still possibly be a flashback scene that we could get? BTW, loving your videos and your take on things. Still more i need to watch to catch up on.
If Sephiroth was the one to save Zack then I think his purpose for that is when Cloud regains his full memories and of Zack and his death, Sephiroth will merge worlds. Zack will come in and Sephiroth will show Cloud that Zack is alive ruining Cloud's mind and saying that his true memories are all a lie. This would break Cloud even further with possibly no hope of redemption if he believes even his true memories are a lie.
I know this is a small thing, but it REALLY makes me like your material even more. I dislike when people feel that "real fans must worship all prior FF7 lore and you're not a real fan if you're not excited for it to continue onward". Dirge was...so bad.@@Sector6UK
There are a few bits of Dirge i don't mind, like the concepts of Omega and Chaos and the fleshing out of that aspect. But beyond that yeah, i kinda hated it. Streamed it a few months ago to refresh on it and it was just as painful as i remembered lol
Agreed. The problem for me is that anything that is interesting requires getting through so many chapters of the irritating, 1D characters like Azul, Rosso, etc. @@Sector6UK
Genesis, Cloud, Minerva, Jenova are my guesses. Rufus is wild take but I just don't know if he had a good connection with Zach. But what if minerva the life of the planet knew Zach from before and put him back alive. Or it is Jenova...
Question, would you like to talk about ff7 on Kai the player podcast? And how well you know about the 4 ff7 mobile game G-bike, Before Crisis, First Soldier, and ever crisis and think thats the next top to talk about beside a new rebrth trailer
The first Remake game explains this perfectly the ghost/specters/arbiters of fate did when Zack is surrounded in the "original timeline" the ghosts are not there and Shinra reinforcements just kept on comming but in Remake they appeared and cut off the reinforcements as for who sent them to the moment Zack died maybe a certain "mysterious specter" that is definitely going to get addressed eventually (in thinking Jessie) or it can be someone who has some sort of hold on the planet (in thinking Aerith's spirit from the future) there is also Sephiroth since Zack could potentially be a body or tool he could use (he was resistant to the experiment but they can definitely do plot around that if they want) and lastly Genesis is still around (oh you just got to that part of the video lol) i got nothing else
Ya know the rufus idea isn't crazy. Remember Tseng tried to save Zack at the end of CC, and Tseng was tight with Rufus, even 'betraying' shinra in before crisis to side with Rufus and the turks. Now, what if Rufus knew where Zack was and sent Tseng and them there directly? Just a thought.
Rufus? It's possible, but two people with consciences and moral values whom we haven't considered are Tseng and Vincent Valentine. Both have agency, and both have their own agenda. Both are aware of Sephiroth and the danger he poses. But yes, Rufus is possible.
no one hes dead. Buster sword is one of a kind. Let that stew for a bit. Everything we see him, it's 5 years prior. Even when people think he miraculously survived going to the church at the end of teh first game. No one cared to notice how different it looked. And the fact that cloud is literally using Zacks uniforms. He never had his own.
Lots of people talked about the church scene at the time - check Sector 6's early videos, one speculates Zack is a whisper/dead and just doesen't know it yet. People also forget about the Stamp bag changing. This seems to indicate multiple timelines/dimensions, which yes, isn't great. Maybe this could be how Cloud remains fractured this time around - his consciousness is in multiple places and needs to be made whole. (The previous sentence is honestly just spur of the moment speculation). The uniforms - remember, Zack gives him/puts Cloud in a different set of clothing after they leave Nibelheim, which ultimately looks like his main game uniform. In Remake's ending it looks like he is wearing the same one as Zack, or something similar.
I loved doing the whisper Zack video and honestly if it's the planet thats saved Zack i still think thats gonna be his role. Working as a replacement for the whispers or at least as a protector of the planet.
@@Sector6UK Lots of possibilities and to me, depends on if they prioritize heartbreak or fan service. Plenty of people speculating (hoping) Zack becomes the new super hero as Cloud goes totally braindead or controlled. But this has always been Cloud's story, so I doubt that. The other is my thinking (heartbreak) because that's the main theme in the OG. Zack appears as a whisper and you fight him (and vice-versa). Precedent already there with the advent children at the end of Remake. People die, planet gets what it wants, and having him and the party do it to each other hurts even more than the OG events. Only thing getting in the way is the larger, overarching theme among the FF franchise that you can change destiny/fight the insurmountable. What I can't figure out is why the "singularity" happened the moment Cloud and Sephiroth's swords met after you beat him. I mean, nothing new there, but that's when everything changed, the edge of creation scene happened, and the whispers seemingly got wiped out.
@minibeech03 So the Buster Sword could easily have been duplicated, when the party went into the singularity to fight Sephiroth they were protected from the changes to the timeline. Meaning Zack still has the sword and then Cloud leaves the singularity and exits Midgar with the sword. Two Buster Swords.
I like the Rufus and Genesis idea. Be cool if Genesis had somehow aquired the same power as Sephiroth and Aerith he could be playing the long game with Rufus giving him the ability to see the whispers and is some how guiding him towards the planets will. Be kind of cool if Genesis only appeared in rufus's consciousness at this point and manifest him self later in rebirth
I like the idea of the planet choosing to save Zack, because it already knows that Cloud will fail in this new timeline. He will become Sephiroth's vessel for his "Rebirth." We know that the planet and the lifestream are connected and self aware. We also know that the planet's top priority is self preservation. The original timeline outcome was acceptable to the planet. Because the Lifestream is connected to all points in time, it can see the new outcome of Sephiroth's plan before we do. Therefore, it left Zack alive to be the replacement for Cloud. We know how uncorruptably good Zack is, and clearly the planet does too. Sephiroth would never be able to control Zack.
Игры![Final Fantasy 7 : Cut Content & History [Part 1] | Cut Content](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8r1gWAqLnGU/mqdefault.jpg)
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I'm not so sure about how Zack specifically survived his last stand, although the new Sleepezi video put incredible context to it. I'm very interested in Zack's nature before he opened the doors to Aerith's church. He seemed relaxed, which makes me think he was at least assured of Cloud's safety. That makes me wonder if Tseng and Cissnei played a part in a rescue, and that could be a big secret that Tseng might want to hide from Rufus. But then again, Rufus alone raises a million questions. Whatever is happening though, we need you on another one of those group podcasts to throw in your questions! Can't wait for that!!
Cissnei is what I believe had intercepted Zack
My guess was that the whispers kept him alive as a kind of counterbalance to what cloud & the gang were doing
But Cissnei was on her way to help Zack, so she may be involved in some way, but i don't think she'd be able to save him on her own. But we do need to get some closure with her at some point, so maybe we'll get to see her during the remake trilogy
Here is what I think:
I don't think anyone "saved Zack" intentionally, on the contrary. I would say that Zack was KILLED intentionally. By the whispers. They were always there...he just couldn't see them. But now we see the exact same scene from the perspective of someone who can. So why would the whispers want Zack to die? Because for the simple reason that if zack does not die, cloud never becomes who he needs to be for the plot to even happen the way it was supposed to happen. if you play crisis core and also zacks last stand, his last DMW roll actually shows 3x Aerith. which is a full heal. but for some reason the heal never got to him and the DMW was malfunctioning and erasing his memories (giving them to the comatose cloud). the DMW being directly linked to zacks memories is also directly stated in crisis core. So zack was originally USED by the whispers as a scapegoat to forge Cloud into the person and also vessel he was supposed to become. Remember, at this point in time...in the original...sephiroth was already at the north crater...letting jenova doing all kinds of stuff for him to call meteor later. but what would happen if zack does not die and cloud stays comatose? NOBODY would try to oppose sephiroths plan since nobody would even witness anything that jenova does or that sephiroth tries to do...therefor nobody would stop him in the long run. the whispers NEEDED someone who would follow jenova, but also be manipulated enough by jenova for anything to happen as it should. resulting in sephiroths defeat paying a huge toll in the process (zack and aerith dying, geostigma etc). because thats the only way they had to save the planet. the whispers actually follow the will of the planet...without emotional attachments. they just go with the plan. and the plan was to save the planet...THEIR way. and for that they needed Cloud...not Zack, because zack would not be linked to jenova to even follow her and THEN stop sephiroth. Cloud would also need to have some of zacks memories to tie in Aerith who was also needed for the plan. But now...as you said: the whispers "died" through the actions of the party in remake. but they also exist outside of time...which means they actually disappear throughout time in general...meaning also at the point of zacks last stand, which he, seemingly would have survived without them interfering, since them being there or not is the ONLY change. the whispers KILLED zack or rather let him die purposefully so that cloud becomes who he is and stops sephiroth. not that zack is too "weak" or something. But zack wouldn't possibly know where sephiroth is and wouldn't be controled by jenova to the extent that he would follow her thinking he follows sephiroth. So if anything...zack being alife now is not a plan of sephiroth but maybe the one thing he COULDN'T possibly have calculated or taken into count. sephiroths plan succeeds or fails due to whether or not he can manipulate cloud into joining him. and the one person he doesn't want in that equasion, is zack. originally tifa was, after aeriths death, able to get to cloud and make him remember who he really is. thats why he tries to make him doubt tifa and his friends now (which is also shown in the rebirth trailer and also differs from the original in which he actually didn't try to make Cloud doubt tifa but only himself). he doesn't want cloud to remember zack or his true self. and thats why I believe zack will play a huge role in Cloud remembering who and what he is this time and possibly saving aerith.
Agreed with this. Zach would’ve survived on his own and this shows the fate made the effort to kill Zach. No one saved him. No one tried to save him. They were there to ensure he died.
Wow good call
I’ve always had this question as well after playing Remake.
When you first beat it, I think the initial thought most of us had, was that our (the party’s) actions of defeating the whispers, indirectly saved Zack.
Then around a month after Remake’s release, I started hearing the theories of the whispers messing with the Shinra troops, as a last ditch effort by the planet, to save Zack.
However, after SleepEzi’s videos, I can see why Sephiroth would’ve saved Zack, especially if he had control of the whispers around that point.
I don’t really know where I stand right now with it, but there’s definitely a lot of interesting theories out there. Definitely want to see Cissnei involved in Zack’s story going forward.
If you mean the "vessel" theory then yeah it's something i've spoken about a few times, the recent "Chasing Clouds" video touches on it a bit as well.
Rebirth is a very sus title lol
I thought that the whispers only appear when moments that are core to the story happen, and also especially so when said individual have strong spirits that could go against fate. Zack having the whispers around always meant to me that this is Zack fighting with all he gots against shinra for his freedom. This moment being pivotable since it’s what makes cloud in ff7 cloud. So they were around because fate was like “yo this dude is really lively. Let’s just send some of our goons to make sure this dude doesn’t win” and when the crew in remake beat the big bastard of fate, zacks whippers during the fight vanished giving him the capability to possibly win which he ends up doing. At least that’s what I though.
There were a lot of fans and content creators who kinda jumped ship because of the whispers and zack. Their interpretation of remake was that zack died because the whispers made it happen and that this was canon all along, which to them cheapens his last stand. And it's kind of a shame that this was the reason they lost interest, because it is WAY more interesting to think that something wanted zack to survive, therefore the whispers go to intervene and course correct, but then are defeated and so zack survives. That's a very different way of thinking about it that is much better.
I'd say it's the planet using him as a counter-balance to the main party. One way or another, the main reason is that more of his hair needs to be harvested in Rebirth.
Though I'm still trying to keep all versions straight here. In the OG, Zack dies AFTER carrying Cloud to near the edge of the ravine and coming back to check on him, but I don't think that's the case in CC. We see him carrying Cloud in both Remake AND the first Rebirth trailer, so IF the whispers were destroyed prior to that, then true, they couldn't have ensured his death this time around. Some have argued there's a purple whisper in that scene which indicates Sephiroth's control over events, but I don't see it.
I sure hope the Planet decides to include Elfe in the story at some point. Zack and Elfe in an expanded party alongside Cloud fighting Sephiroth sounds pretty cool.
FWIW, I'm pretty confident that it was Sephiroth who saved Zack. But, whether that was his specific intention is where things get murky. What I mean by that is that his motivation for saving Zack is probably not because he wants Zack to live, rather because he seeks to break Cloud's ties with Zack and Angeal's legacy just as he is trying to sever his connection with his friends (Tifa). The reason being so that Cloud will partake in Reunion.
Precisely.
I think Sephiroth is becoming a good guy. Is he really trying to sever Cloud's relationship with his friends? We know so little so far that I think Sephiroth is trying to undo the damage he caused and really wanted to save Zack.
@@kevinburke1325 that would be a completely different story and game if that happened… I’d bet 1 billion dollars that I don’t have, that won’t happen.
@Desensitized241 it's ALREADY a completely different game. It's been different from the very beginning to the end of the first game of the remake.
@@TheDigitalDecade your argument doesn't even make sense because everything that happened in the remake had nothing to do with the original game at all.
Probably the sephiroth theory is the most likely since we seen him absorb fate after the party defeated it. But one other idea is that the planet itself saved zack as a last ditch effort. It’s almost like it hit the last resort button. Maybe there’s only one other way they win this time around. And zack has to be alive in order for them to do it
I agree, Sephiroth is definitely the most likely.
It just feels very suspicious that the whispers are there before anything happens, if it was an accident it would just be a case of the huge singularity explosion stopped the troops who ambush Zack from ambushing him at the end of the last stand.
So someone definitely messed around, and yeah, probably Sephiroth.
But maybe not! lol
Well if Sephiroth is trying to destroy Cloud's ability to trust Tifa... you know who else Cloud would trust? Zack.
Interviewer: Why is Zack so prominent in Remake?
Nomura: Because he's popular and we like money.
Interviewer: Why Remake FF7?
Nomura: Because it's popular and we like money.
Interviewer: Why does the compilation of FFVII exist?
Squeenix: Popular. Money.
Idk about "saved" during the last stand moment but I think he's at least gonna get involved with Rufus & the Turks
Something people forget is that Tseng has a lot of reasons to save him & that his alliance with Rufus give him the means the protect him,.
Tseng is his friend, Zack asked him to keep an eye on Aerith for him & there's also the fact that he still has Aerith's 88 letters to give him, something he never got to do in the OG timeline & may need some closure (which remind me that the collector edition of CCR contained Aerith's letters. The devs really want us to remind us of their existence).
Zack would also possibly try to contact Tseng concerning her whereabouts.
Rufus picking up Zack can make sense because in Remake, we see him asking Cloud if he was a SOLDIER & remind him that he's supposed to work for the company. When we take the context of Remake, Shinra is trying to restart a war with Wutaï, Midgar has "officially" sustained 3 terrorists attacks & there's internal strife in the company.
There's no notable 1st SOLDIERs around & Rufus officially, can only rely on 4 Turks while Heidegger, Scarlet & Hojo have the army & their technologies on hands. So getting 1st SOLDIERs on his side to balance things out in term of power in the company & in-case a war start to unfold isn't a bad idea. There's also the fact that Zack has S-cells in him to so maybe he could believe to be one of the guy who could lead him to Sephiroth at one point. (Which may fit into Sephiroth's plan as he could at one point meet Cloud again & the encounter could damage his psyche, making things worse for him compared to OG)
Wasn't there a race condition at the end of Crisis Core where the Turks (Cisnei in particular) get sent out to find Zack before the Shinra Army find him? And of course, the Turks and Rufus and linked... This is an interesting line of possibility.
The answer is Sephiroth. Everyone keeps thinking the Seph we fight at the end of remake is up to sinister actions. But I say nay. This new Sephiroth is trying to right all the wrongs he has done and is trying to put an end to Jenova once and for all. My theory is he is the Sephiroth from Advent Children, and when Aeriths ghost cast Great Gospel to heal everyone’s Geostigma, Sephiroth’s corrupted cells was cleansed or maybe weakened enough for him to fully take back control of his mind from Jenova. So in order to complete this task he will need Cloud, Zack, and Aerith alive. I also think he will be a playable character in the last game. And Genesis and Weiss will also be heavily involved as the main antagonists along with the original Sephiroth. Either way I see a Sephiroth vs Sephiroth showdown in the future of this remake series.
I just want history to remember two things:
1. Don Corneo's henchmen are SCOTCH and CROTCH.
2. Part 3 has no antagonist, because Doomguy is in part 2.
Well, seeing as the Whispers' role was to make sure the original story occurred, when the party fought and defeat them in Singularity, the Whispers were unable to make sure Zack died when he fought the Shinra troops.
Maybe when Palmer was drawing the stamp logo, Kid Ruffus picked the terrer one instead of the beagle one. Butterfly effect after that.
Given that the four whispers are always depicted in Sephiroth's official art for remake, and there are exactly 4 whispers at Zack's scene while all the other ones are doing the bidding and following the commands given to them by the planet/jenova/whatever... I'd say Sephiroth did. Also if you go through the entire game with the context of Zack being alive, it makes a lot more sense. Every scene the Ultimania Omega written by Umemora (sp?) where Zack speaks to Cloud in Midgar is literally replaced with Sephiroth speaking, and then some.
As for who saves them, Crisis Core puts in that the turks have orders to save Zack. Conveniently, Cissinei is placed by the church a few days before Cloud is found alone in Sector 7's train station. Not only that, but she's attacked in what becomes a "high speed chase through Midgar."
If Zack suddenly had to leave Cloud, he'd leave the sword with Cloud and run off to play the hero. Cloud is found October 4th. Cissinei is at the church October 3rd.
It also points out the Turks in exile (aka all the extra turks not from the OG) are fighting Jade Weapon at Icicle Inn on the same day as the first reactor bombing, December 12th.
As for the crying in the church, apparently, the Avalanche leader was executed in Sector 5 the same day or the day before Cissinei shows up at the church to be attacked, October 3rd or 2nd. These foes are "Anti-Soldier Ravens" from Avalanche.
I feel like the Remake is implying the Whispers killed Zack in the first place, after you asked "Why are they there?"
Zack was always strong enough to win. After the Whispers were dispersed HE DID WIN. They're the reason he died. Cloud's actions in "the future" undid what the Whispers did to Zack in the past, and allowed Zack to live. Creating a New Timeline from the first point where the Whispers decided to interfere. The Original FF7 was created by the design of "Someone" who was guiding the whispers to kill Zack and set the story in motion.
Exactly! People are overthinking this, yet it is pretty straight forward...
But didn't Zack survive the stand in the OG? he died after while carrying cloud. He got gunned down by the 2 or 3 soldiers following him. The whispers were gone before Zack carried cloud. So is it possible the whispers kept Zack alive from the stand so that he can carry cloud and save him from the few soldiers that follow? Which would mean nothing's changed.
But we see Zack reaching the outside of Midgar in the first Rebirth trailer and we see him at the church at the end of the Intermission DLC which are both after the point of him being gunned down.
I think it's one of two things;
1. The whisper explosion potentially stopped the remaining soldiers ambushing Zack so he lives.
2. Someone changed something so he survives.
But either way, i'm almost certain that Zack is alive going forwards.
@@Sector6UK right. that first trailer he's carrying cloud. Possible those few soldiers that catch up to them in the OG still do?? And the scene at the church, has that been confirmed that's after or could it still possibly be a flashback scene that we could get? BTW, loving your videos and your take on things. Still more i need to watch to catch up on.
If Sephiroth was the one to save Zack then I think his purpose for that is when Cloud regains his full memories and of Zack and his death, Sephiroth will merge worlds. Zack will come in and Sephiroth will show Cloud that Zack is alive ruining Cloud's mind and saying that his true memories are all a lie. This would break Cloud even further with possibly no hope of redemption if he believes even his true memories are a lie.
It makes me so happy to hear disparaging remarks on Dirge. I fear Dirge incorporation into stuff, because it is oh so painful….
Pure pain lol
I know this is a small thing, but it REALLY makes me like your material even more. I dislike when people feel that "real fans must worship all prior FF7 lore and you're not a real fan if you're not excited for it to continue onward". Dirge was...so bad.@@Sector6UK
There are a few bits of Dirge i don't mind, like the concepts of Omega and Chaos and the fleshing out of that aspect.
But beyond that yeah, i kinda hated it. Streamed it a few months ago to refresh on it and it was just as painful as i remembered lol
Agreed. The problem for me is that anything that is interesting requires getting through so many chapters of the irritating, 1D characters like Azul, Rosso, etc. @@Sector6UK
Genesis, Cloud, Minerva, Jenova are my guesses. Rufus is wild take but I just don't know if he had a good connection with Zach. But what if minerva the life of the planet knew Zach from before and put him back alive. Or it is Jenova...
Question, would you like to talk about ff7 on Kai the player podcast?
And how well you know about the 4 ff7 mobile game G-bike, Before Crisis, First Soldier, and ever crisis and think thats the next top to talk about beside a new rebrth trailer
The first Remake game explains this perfectly the ghost/specters/arbiters of fate did
when Zack is surrounded in the "original timeline" the ghosts are not there and Shinra reinforcements just kept on comming
but in Remake they appeared and cut off the reinforcements
as for who sent them to the moment Zack died maybe a certain "mysterious specter" that is definitely going to get addressed eventually (in thinking Jessie)
or it can be someone who has some sort of hold on the planet (in thinking Aerith's spirit from the future)
there is also Sephiroth since Zack could potentially be a body or tool he could use (he was resistant to the experiment but they can definitely do plot around that if they want)
and lastly Genesis is still around (oh you just got to that part of the video lol)
i got nothing else
Whispers couldn't make sure Zack died because Cloud destroyed them in whatever timeline he's in
Ya know the rufus idea isn't crazy. Remember Tseng tried to save Zack at the end of CC, and Tseng was tight with Rufus, even 'betraying' shinra in before crisis to side with Rufus and the turks. Now, what if Rufus knew where Zack was and sent Tseng and them there directly? Just a thought.
but that happens way before they fight the whispers. like a week or whatever
Rufus? It's possible, but two people with consciences and moral values whom we haven't considered are Tseng and Vincent Valentine. Both have agency, and both have their own agenda. Both are aware of Sephiroth and the danger he poses. But yes, Rufus is possible.
Spoilers: After his sacrifice to saved Cloud from Shinra, he may died but he saw Angeal helped him before project Advent children.
No one saved him. He just annihilated everyone and walked away. He basically saved Cloud.
Tseng can save Zack or Rufus
no one hes dead. Buster sword is one of a kind. Let that stew for a bit. Everything we see him, it's 5 years prior. Even when people think he miraculously survived going to the church at the end of teh first game. No one cared to notice how different it looked. And the fact that cloud is literally using Zacks uniforms. He never had his own.
Lots of people talked about the church scene at the time - check Sector 6's early videos, one speculates Zack is a whisper/dead and just doesen't know it yet. People also forget about the Stamp bag changing. This seems to indicate multiple timelines/dimensions, which yes, isn't great. Maybe this could be how Cloud remains fractured this time around - his consciousness is in multiple places and needs to be made whole. (The previous sentence is honestly just spur of the moment speculation).
The uniforms - remember, Zack gives him/puts Cloud in a different set of clothing after they leave Nibelheim, which ultimately looks like his main game uniform. In Remake's ending it looks like he is wearing the same one as Zack, or something similar.
I loved doing the whisper Zack video and honestly if it's the planet thats saved Zack i still think thats gonna be his role. Working as a replacement for the whispers or at least as a protector of the planet.
@@Sector6UK Lots of possibilities and to me, depends on if they prioritize heartbreak or fan service. Plenty of people speculating (hoping) Zack becomes the new super hero as Cloud goes totally braindead or controlled. But this has always been Cloud's story, so I doubt that. The other is my thinking (heartbreak) because that's the main theme in the OG. Zack appears as a whisper and you fight him (and vice-versa). Precedent already there with the advent children at the end of Remake. People die, planet gets what it wants, and having him and the party do it to each other hurts even more than the OG events. Only thing getting in the way is the larger, overarching theme among the FF franchise that you can change destiny/fight the insurmountable.
What I can't figure out is why the "singularity" happened the moment Cloud and Sephiroth's swords met after you beat him. I mean, nothing new there, but that's when everything changed, the edge of creation scene happened, and the whispers seemingly got wiped out.
@minibeech03
So the Buster Sword could easily have been duplicated, when the party went into the singularity to fight Sephiroth they were protected from the changes to the timeline.
Meaning Zack still has the sword and then Cloud leaves the singularity and exits Midgar with the sword.
Two Buster Swords.
@@dalegleneagles5072zack being a whisper would be cool.
Materia: You are welcome :)
I like the Rufus and Genesis idea. Be cool if Genesis had somehow aquired the same power as Sephiroth and Aerith he could be playing the long game with Rufus giving him the ability to see the whispers and is some how guiding him towards the planets will. Be kind of cool if Genesis only appeared in rufus's consciousness at this point and manifest him self later in rebirth
ooooh this works actually. Genesis has the capability, Rufus has the ability to change things if he can get a message to himself.
HMM! Love it.
What if it was Minerva that revived Zack? Zack and Genesis both have connects with Minerva
Definitely possible, Genesis using the power of Minerva or asking her to save Zack maybe
I like the idea of the planet choosing to save Zack, because it already knows that Cloud will fail in this new timeline. He will become Sephiroth's vessel for his "Rebirth."
We know that the planet and the lifestream are connected and self aware. We also know that the planet's top priority is self preservation.
The original timeline outcome was acceptable to the planet. Because the Lifestream is connected to all points in time, it can see the new outcome of Sephiroth's plan before we do.
Therefore, it left Zack alive to be the replacement for Cloud. We know how uncorruptably good Zack is, and clearly the planet does too. Sephiroth would never be able to control Zack.
No one saved zack he held his own.He’s a bonafide 1st Class Soldier.Unlike one blonde hair that didnt even qualify into soldier.