One other reason why we don't talk about it is because we're given the message from an early age that nobody cares. If nobody cares, then why bother talking about it then?
I've found that men generally have more compassion towards one another when they allow themselves to share their vulnerabilities. I'd encourage us to find safe spaces to do so, I think other men do care if they can relate to the problems being shared.
@L6FT oh well, if you open up to other men often, they will be sympathetic. Women, on the other hand. Ooof... If you wanted to know how worthless you were for crying at your dad's funeral there's nobody who will make you feel it like your wife. The women in our lives are absolutely the most vicious people we have. Nobody can make you feel as bad as a woman who supposedly loves you. That's the truth.
It's a double bind. Women want men who are in touch with and can handle their emotions, however are repelled by emotional men or feeling responsible for his emotions. So men almost have to play a superficial role towards women keeping their emotions to themselves to maintain a strong frame. Girls just wanna have fun. For the man it's important to note it's not about pleasing the woman, but being integrated and true to himself. The heavy burdens in a mans heart are better shared with other men, than his woman it seems.
When the relationship is more fully developed the couple develop an identity as an Us. This is where the well being of the other becomes the well being of ourselves. Now you really have something. It's now, 'you guys vs. the world', time.
This. Women SAY that want open and emotional men - but who they pick, who they stay with and who they leave says the opposite. Maybe find a private online group.
They don’t want men who are able to discuss emotions. Most women want a man who keeps it to himself. Their words mean nothing. Watch thier actions. Go read some red pill stuff. Female therapists are mostly dangerous for men.
It's not necessarily social conditioning that keeps us from talking about it like in therapy; it's also the fact that we don't really get the same hormone rush when we talk about our problems that women do. Men talk about their problems when they want a solution, because solving the problem alleviates things for us. A lot of guys avoid therapy because therapists offer empathy, not action.
I don't agree fully with you last sentence. may be that some therapists offer just empathy but most don't. They usually help you gain insights into your beliefs, identify patterns from your family or past experiences bla bla... Therapy also helps you develop strategies and plans for action but actions is all yours (not always physical action) hardest part is action. hardest part is moving away from habits or thought processes that you’ve had for 10, 20, 30 years. These patterns become embedded in how you see the world. They become almost automatic. Changing them means first becoming aware of how they work, which is uncomfortable. It’s difficult because these patterns might have been formed as a way to protect yourself or adapt to your environment, and letting go of them can feel like losing part of your identity or sense of safety. people be like I know what I'm doing is hurting me but I cannot stop and they keep doing what brought them trouble in the first place
Hiding weakness and displaying strength isn't a cultural conditioning, it's a survival instinct. You said it yourself, animals do the same thing when they feel weak, and they don't always have a culture around them like we do. It's not cultural, it's natural.
As a man, it's less about seeing ourselves as weak and more about being treated other than depressed. Society as a whole has been conditioned to treat as a actual stereotype instead of individualizing each person as a distinct personality. Basically, let people know how you need to be treated in peace as apposed to letting them guess, as well as hearing what someone shares about themself and not wanting to put your own personal experience in place of theirs. You can cause more damage that way.
Exactly, everything and everyone wants to tell you what you should do, what you have and insert theirself or agenda in your buisness, this goes especially if you are a man. These people do not care about you, why listen to someone who dont care about you? They re a man, you will find your own way. They dont need manipulative bastards that hate them telling them what to do or what condition they have with their 9999 labels.
Following divorce and financial difficulties I displayed some extreme risk taking behaviour which was totally out of character. I only realised why I did it years later.
I can definitely relate to overworking as a way to compensate for my anxiety. When both my parents were dying of cancer, I threw myself into my work. Would often go 14 to 16 hours every day. Eventually, I got sick with bronchitis. And when they passed, it was like this great weight had been removed from my life.
I think I have a good add-on to what you're saying. Some level of anxiety is a healthy part of life, specifically if it is anxiety in response to specific situations. Pervasive, generalized anxiety is where it becomes a real problem. Anxiety motivates us toward action. Action to resolve the source of the anxiety. Action is much more useful than talking, generally. It often actually does resolve the source of the anxiety. I would be cautious to call the action/productivity approach a cope. It definitely can be a cope sometimes. When the anxiety is generalized, or the anxiety is coming from something that we can't change, then action and productivity still do legitimately reduce the anxiety, even if it's now functioning as an adaptation rather than a problem solving tool. I suppose this would be coping, but it can be highly functional coping. I personally think that both anxiety and depression are often caused by an excessive self-focus. Excessive introspection. Excessive inward-looking focus. And because of this, the most effective way to aleviate both anxiety and depression are to find ways to turn outward, engaging with life around us. This is essentially what action does. It pulls our mind outside of ourself to focus on life instead of staring inward at ourselves. At least that has been my experience. Focusing on the feelings, talking about the feelings will not solve the underlying problem, which is why I take issue with a lot of the current narrative about how men need to talk about our feelings. Focusing on our feelings often just deepens the unhealthy, excessive introspection, exacerbating the problem. I think many of us are already introspective enough, without needing to be pressured into turning further inward, exacerbating the underlying problem. All of these things are why action, problem solving, productivity and risk taking are part of the same pattern to deal with stress. And so I think that in the instances where it is actually coping, the problem is not the action orientation. The problem is an issue of what specific action is being chosen. If the anxiety is about something within my power to resolve, but I'm avoiding that problem and turning to risky behavior, that's def a problem. Oops didn't mean to write an essay. My bad lol
Your perception of men not admitting fault and weakness is wrong. This is skewed by the lense of female fantasy. Men do not admit weakness only when we are escalated. Instead of fight or flight i propose with men it’s fight, flight, war and surrender. In war the highest level of escalation men do not admit error. This means that you are one of the aggressors. It’s not because we don’t admit we see value in the admission you have to understand women skew the lense by their response to male truthfulness. If I meet a woman and I am truthful having no significant personal error she will stop talking to me because it’s unsexy. In all phases of male female relationships women unconsciously punish male truthfulness. We only obfuscate error in war. Surrender is when we are hopeless we now give all our power away and act feminine. Most of the male life is in fight or flight that is where the error is.
@@Turtleface869 I wasn't talking about any of that in my comment, I'm not following what this has to do with what I said. I didn't say anything about men admitting fault, or telling the truth or anything like that. I was speaking about how to deal with anxiety. Did you mean to leave this response on someone else's comment?
@@darkrebel123 sorry it was about the video itself. Women are wrong my experience is men conceal weakness only on a warpath but the idealized male to women is a male on a warpath. This is only a temporary state in most men. The only men that are always on a warpath are Machiavellian. Women skew their understanding of men because they only care if your personality arrouses them. You can say it’s not so but every woman who has ever been thoughtful to me has also concealed their desire and motives. They only understand the part of a man that they want to copulate with. When you are truthful with women, which is strength not weakness they perceive this as weakness because they won’t say unsexy and in this state you get ignored. It’s biased.
@@Turtleface869 Oh ok, I see. I think that the other side of this is that men also misunderstand women too. In addition to arousal, women are often looking for safety as well. And this is rarely overtly communicated. Most men don't understand how pervasive this focus on safety is for many women, and men don't understand how big a part it plays in attraction as well. Women have their own ways of assessing the strength of men, shit testing men, and things like that, which are uncomfortable and often annoying to men. So I beleive that the focus on stregth and pro-activity from women is connected to a feeling of safety, not just arousal. Although safety and arousal are closely connected for them. I think that it's helpful when men can stop expecting women to think and behave like men, and when women can stop expecting men to think and behave like women. I say this because it sounds to me like you are most likely expecting women to behave the way you do. In my experience, women respect truth from men, but often men don't know how to communicate truth in a way that also meets the woman where she's at while still being truthful. All too often men are dismissive of a womans' feelings because the feelings don't align with objective truth, and the man gets so stuck on the obsession with objective truth that he is unable to guide the woman to a mutual understanding. Often as a man, you need to let a woman talk things out, you need to let her circle around the actual issue, and guide her toward the truth at the center of all that circling. You can't just skip straight to tho end-goal of what you think the truth/solution is, because often the first thing they say is not the thing that's at the core of the issue, and so you have to let them work their way to what the actual issue is. And when we are too quick to jump to "the truth" it bypasses this cirical process, making them feel invalidated, and also preventing them and you from even figuring out what the actual problem is that needs to be solved. My whole point is this: I as a man would like it if women were able to better understand me, and meet me half way. But in order to meet her half way, I also have to understand who she is, and I have to make adjustments of my own approaches and communication to actually meet her where she's at also. Brutal honesty is not a strength. Honesty communicated with kindness is a strength. Truth is not a universal good, or universal strength. Truth is absolutely a strength when it is used correctly, and with awareness of the pragmatic effects it will have. I don't know you personally, but it's entirely possible that the reason being truthful gets you poor results with women, is not because of the honesty, but rather because the truth is being communicated in a way that invalidates her feelings and experience. It's essentially taking her out of the equation. It's your way or the highway. True skill is learning to communicate the truth in a way where the truth can actually be recieved, which inludes the perspective of the other person. This may not be you, this is me jumping to conclusions based on 2 paragraphs, but it's something I've seen happen a lot.
@@Turtleface869 All too often, men tend to overvalue what they think is truth, rationality, and objectivity, when often their rationale is none of these things in the first place, only the appearance of these things. Men confuse rationalization with rationality, truth, and objectivey. On the other hand, women tend to overvalue their feelings, thinking that their feelings represent reality and truth of the situation, and often that is also false/misguided. So the best way that men and women can connect deeply, is to be more open, pay more attention to the perspectives of others, and to be a little less attached to our own respective approaches to things. Be a little less attached to our excessively specific expectations of each other, and learn to enjoy connection, in whatever flavour it may present itself. We don't have to give up who we are, or abandon our own truth, but rather we need to give others the same grace that we desire others to give us. That's where so much of the antagonism between men and women comes from, a lack of ability to see outside of ourselves.
Never never never show weakness to a woman. She will inevitably use it against you or leave you. And she should leave you if you are weak. Keep it to yourself until you can talk to a trusted buddy.
Every single time I’ve opened up about my anxieties I’ve been either made fun of or rejected completely or both by other men or by women. I have very much learned to not speak about these things and so I’m now considered friendly and safe and that sort of things. Oh well. Guess I’ll suffer and let women open up about their insecurities and anxieties and try to provide help and compassion.
Men withdraw and stay silent because early on, they found that anything they said to their partner came back to them from her mother's cousin Rita, usually with a judgement attached. And from Rita's mouthy friend Flo. And Flo's hairdresser. Also, any worries that men admit are used against them by their partners in every argument. Three or four experiences of this, and no self-respecting man will share anything ever again. If women want men to be better, women need to do better. Sort out your loyalties. Keep confidences. Control your anger. Be on your man's side.
First off, thanks for the videos-they’re a hell of a lot more interesting than the usual mind-numbing scroll. But I have to say, the shift in your recent ones? Bolder move, and it’s working. The lower voice, the pauses, the way you let certain words linger-it’s all... well, let’s just say, captivating. If I’m reading too much into it, feel free to ignore me-or remove this. But if you don’t, I guess I was onto something.
How about if you were deceived, tortured and misled instead of honestly treated and cared for? Especially when you are the one who is trying your best and ASKING for help.
@@vidargartz1797 We get weak focusing our effort and energy into getting help and getting understood instead of healing on our own. Therapy its bullshit for male brains. Females thrive on sympathy. We dont. We just need respect. Women want great listeners. Men want peace and quiet. We dont need understanding just support. Most brains on the end if the male spectrum are alexithymic, those dont need any talking.
One other reason why we don't talk about it is because we're given the message from an early age that nobody cares. If nobody cares, then why bother talking about it then?
I've found that men generally have more compassion towards one another when they allow themselves to share their vulnerabilities.
I'd encourage us to find safe spaces to do so, I think other men do care if they can relate to the problems being shared.
@L6FT oh well, if you open up to other men often, they will be sympathetic. Women, on the other hand. Ooof... If you wanted to know how worthless you were for crying at your dad's funeral there's nobody who will make you feel it like your wife. The women in our lives are absolutely the most vicious people we have. Nobody can make you feel as bad as a woman who supposedly loves you. That's the truth.
@@darrenskjoelsvold root cause, we were never taught how to choose a good woman.
@D.M.S. well hopefully we had a good archetype in the women in our lives. But I see your point.
Not just given the message, but much more importantly, given the experience.
It's a double bind. Women want men who are in touch with and can handle their emotions, however are repelled by emotional men or feeling responsible for his emotions.
So men almost have to play a superficial role towards women keeping their emotions to themselves to maintain a strong frame. Girls just wanna have fun.
For the man it's important to note it's not about pleasing the woman, but being integrated and true to himself. The heavy burdens in a mans heart are better shared with other men, than his woman it seems.
100%.
When the relationship is more fully developed the couple develop an identity as an Us. This is where the well being of the other becomes the well being of ourselves. Now you really have something. It's now, 'you guys vs. the world', time.
This. Women SAY that want open and emotional men - but who they pick, who they stay with and who they leave says the opposite. Maybe find a private online group.
They don’t want men who are able to discuss emotions. Most women want a man who keeps it to himself. Their words mean nothing. Watch thier actions. Go read some red pill stuff. Female therapists are mostly dangerous for men.
Cannot disagree
It's not necessarily social conditioning that keeps us from talking about it like in therapy; it's also the fact that we don't really get the same hormone rush when we talk about our problems that women do. Men talk about their problems when they want a solution, because solving the problem alleviates things for us. A lot of guys avoid therapy because therapists offer empathy, not action.
I conditioned myself to touch myself everytime I watch Oleysas videos
I don't agree fully with you last sentence. may be that some therapists offer just empathy but most don't. They usually help you gain insights into your beliefs, identify patterns from your family or past experiences bla bla... Therapy also helps you develop strategies and plans for action but actions is all yours (not always physical action)
hardest part is action. hardest part is moving away from habits or thought processes that you’ve had for 10, 20, 30 years. These patterns become embedded in how you see the world. They become almost automatic. Changing them means first becoming aware of how they work, which is uncomfortable. It’s difficult because these patterns might have been formed as a way to protect yourself or adapt to your environment, and letting go of them can feel like losing part of your identity or sense of safety. people be like I know what I'm doing is hurting me but I cannot stop and they keep doing what brought them trouble in the first place
Hiding weakness and displaying strength isn't a cultural conditioning, it's a survival instinct. You said it yourself, animals do the same thing when they feel weak, and they don't always have a culture around them like we do. It's not cultural, it's natural.
As a man, it's less about seeing ourselves as weak and more about being treated other than depressed.
Society as a whole has been conditioned to treat as a actual stereotype instead of individualizing each person as a distinct personality.
Basically, let people know how you need to be treated in peace as apposed to letting them guess, as well as hearing what someone shares about themself and not wanting to put your own personal experience in place of theirs.
You can cause more damage that way.
Exactly,
everything and everyone wants to tell you what you should do, what you have and insert theirself or agenda in your buisness, this goes especially if you are a man.
These people do not care about you, why listen to someone who dont care about you?
They re a man, you will find your own way. They dont need manipulative bastards that hate them telling them what to do or what condition they have with their 9999 labels.
Following divorce and financial difficulties I displayed some extreme risk taking behaviour which was totally out of character. I only realised why I did it years later.
I can definitely relate to overworking as a way to compensate for my anxiety. When both my parents were dying of cancer, I threw myself into my work. Would often go 14 to 16 hours every day. Eventually, I got sick with bronchitis. And when they passed, it was like this great weight had been removed from my life.
99.9% of when I attempt to communicate to my caregivers, they default to gaslighting. THANK YOU
U also missed drinking and watching sport. Drinking is a way to escape and watching sport is competitive and makes u feel powerful, similar to anger
Masturbation and sex as well even.
We should all be more understanding ☺️
Thanks
I think I have a good add-on to what you're saying. Some level of anxiety is a healthy part of life, specifically if it is anxiety in response to specific situations. Pervasive, generalized anxiety is where it becomes a real problem. Anxiety motivates us toward action. Action to resolve the source of the anxiety. Action is much more useful than talking, generally. It often actually does resolve the source of the anxiety. I would be cautious to call the action/productivity approach a cope. It definitely can be a cope sometimes.
When the anxiety is generalized, or the anxiety is coming from something that we can't change, then action and productivity still do legitimately reduce the anxiety, even if it's now functioning as an adaptation rather than a problem solving tool. I suppose this would be coping, but it can be highly functional coping.
I personally think that both anxiety and depression are often caused by an excessive self-focus. Excessive introspection. Excessive inward-looking focus. And because of this, the most effective way to aleviate both anxiety and depression are to find ways to turn outward, engaging with life around us. This is essentially what action does. It pulls our mind outside of ourself to focus on life instead of staring inward at ourselves. At least that has been my experience. Focusing on the feelings, talking about the feelings will not solve the underlying problem, which is why I take issue with a lot of the current narrative about how men need to talk about our feelings. Focusing on our feelings often just deepens the unhealthy, excessive introspection, exacerbating the problem. I think many of us are already introspective enough, without needing to be pressured into turning further inward, exacerbating the underlying problem.
All of these things are why action, problem solving, productivity and risk taking are part of the same pattern to deal with stress. And so I think that in the instances where it is actually coping, the problem is not the action orientation. The problem is an issue of what specific action is being chosen. If the anxiety is about something within my power to resolve, but I'm avoiding that problem and turning to risky behavior, that's def a problem.
Oops didn't mean to write an essay. My bad lol
Your perception of men not admitting fault and weakness is wrong. This is skewed by the lense of female fantasy. Men do not admit weakness only when we are escalated. Instead of fight or flight i propose with men it’s fight, flight, war and surrender. In war the highest level of escalation men do not admit error. This means that you are one of the aggressors. It’s not because we don’t admit we see value in the admission you have to understand women skew the lense by their response to male truthfulness. If I meet a woman and I am truthful having no significant personal error she will stop talking to me because it’s unsexy. In all phases of male female relationships women unconsciously punish male truthfulness. We only obfuscate error in war. Surrender is when we are hopeless we now give all our power away and act feminine. Most of the male life is in fight or flight that is where the error is.
@@Turtleface869 I wasn't talking about any of that in my comment, I'm not following what this has to do with what I said. I didn't say anything about men admitting fault, or telling the truth or anything like that. I was speaking about how to deal with anxiety. Did you mean to leave this response on someone else's comment?
@@darkrebel123 sorry it was about the video itself. Women are wrong my experience is men conceal weakness only on a warpath but the idealized male to women is a male on a warpath. This is only a temporary state in most men. The only men that are always on a warpath are Machiavellian. Women skew their understanding of men because they only care if your personality arrouses them. You can say it’s not so but every woman who has ever been thoughtful to me has also concealed their desire and motives. They only understand the part of a man that they want to copulate with. When you are truthful with women, which is strength not weakness they perceive this as weakness because they won’t say unsexy and in this state you get ignored. It’s biased.
@@Turtleface869 Oh ok, I see. I think that the other side of this is that men also misunderstand women too. In addition to arousal, women are often looking for safety as well. And this is rarely overtly communicated. Most men don't understand how pervasive this focus on safety is for many women, and men don't understand how big a part it plays in attraction as well. Women have their own ways of assessing the strength of men, shit testing men, and things like that, which are uncomfortable and often annoying to men. So I beleive that the focus on stregth and pro-activity from women is connected to a feeling of safety, not just arousal. Although safety and arousal are closely connected for them.
I think that it's helpful when men can stop expecting women to think and behave like men, and when women can stop expecting men to think and behave like women.
I say this because it sounds to me like you are most likely expecting women to behave the way you do.
In my experience, women respect truth from men, but often men don't know how to communicate truth in a way that also meets the woman where she's at while still being truthful. All too often men are dismissive of a womans' feelings because the feelings don't align with objective truth, and the man gets so stuck on the obsession with objective truth that he is unable to guide the woman to a mutual understanding. Often as a man, you need to let a woman talk things out, you need to let her circle around the actual issue, and guide her toward the truth at the center of all that circling. You can't just skip straight to tho end-goal of what you think the truth/solution is, because often the first thing they say is not the thing that's at the core of the issue, and so you have to let them work their way to what the actual issue is. And when we are too quick to jump to "the truth" it bypasses this cirical process, making them feel invalidated, and also preventing them and you from even figuring out what the actual problem is that needs to be solved.
My whole point is this: I as a man would like it if women were able to better understand me, and meet me half way. But in order to meet her half way, I also have to understand who she is, and I have to make adjustments of my own approaches and communication to actually meet her where she's at also.
Brutal honesty is not a strength. Honesty communicated with kindness is a strength. Truth is not a universal good, or universal strength. Truth is absolutely a strength when it is used correctly, and with awareness of the pragmatic effects it will have.
I don't know you personally, but it's entirely possible that the reason being truthful gets you poor results with women, is not because of the honesty, but rather because the truth is being communicated in a way that invalidates her feelings and experience. It's essentially taking her out of the equation. It's your way or the highway. True skill is learning to communicate the truth in a way where the truth can actually be recieved, which inludes the perspective of the other person. This may not be you, this is me jumping to conclusions based on 2 paragraphs, but it's something I've seen happen a lot.
@@Turtleface869 All too often, men tend to overvalue what they think is truth, rationality, and objectivity, when often their rationale is none of these things in the first place, only the appearance of these things. Men confuse rationalization with rationality, truth, and objectivey. On the other hand, women tend to overvalue their feelings, thinking that their feelings represent reality and truth of the situation, and often that is also false/misguided. So the best way that men and women can connect deeply, is to be more open, pay more attention to the perspectives of others, and to be a little less attached to our own respective approaches to things. Be a little less attached to our excessively specific expectations of each other, and learn to enjoy connection, in whatever flavour it may present itself. We don't have to give up who we are, or abandon our own truth, but rather we need to give others the same grace that we desire others to give us. That's where so much of the antagonism between men and women comes from, a lack of ability to see outside of ourselves.
Never never never show weakness to a woman. She will inevitably use it against you or leave you. And she should leave you if you are weak. Keep it to yourself until you can talk to a trusted buddy.
Every single time I’ve opened up about my anxieties I’ve been either made fun of or rejected completely or both by other men or by women. I have very much learned to not speak about these things and so I’m now considered friendly and safe and that sort of things. Oh well. Guess I’ll suffer and let women open up about their insecurities and anxieties and try to provide help and compassion.
Men withdraw and stay silent because early on, they found that anything they said to their partner came back to them from her mother's cousin Rita, usually with a judgement attached. And from Rita's mouthy friend Flo. And Flo's hairdresser. Also, any worries that men admit are used against them by their partners in every argument. Three or four experiences of this, and no self-respecting man will share anything ever again.
If women want men to be better, women need to do better. Sort out your loyalties. Keep confidences. Control your anger. Be on your man's side.
I mainly withdraw to focus on a solution to the anxiety; being with anyone is too much of a distraction.
First off, thanks for the videos-they’re a hell of a lot more interesting than the usual mind-numbing scroll. But I have to say, the shift in your recent ones? Bolder move, and it’s working. The lower voice, the pauses, the way you let certain words linger-it’s all... well, let’s just say, captivating.
If I’m reading too much into it, feel free to ignore me-or remove this. But if you don’t, I guess I was onto something.
what a weird comment
This is amazing 😍
Absolute quality info.. 💯
Thanks 🙏
Thank you.
Somatic exercises meditation TRE
Thank you
"man up!" Works 90% of the time
How about if you were deceived, tortured and misled instead of honestly treated and cared for? Especially when you are the one who is trying your best and ASKING for help.
I'm overly studying at the age of 40 instead of over working
I do all these in a single day.
Thank you, i am having these problems how can i solve it from the root?
Pretty 😍
That's me going mental on the motorbike heh 😂
❤❤That me❤❤❤
Maybe it's NOT cultural. Maybe it's natural that men need to heal on their own.
Nope, that's a proven unhealthy coping mechanism for everyone, including men.
@@vidargartz1797 We get weak focusing our effort and energy into getting help and getting understood instead of healing on our own.
Therapy its bullshit for male brains.
Females thrive on sympathy. We dont.
We just need respect.
Women want great listeners.
Men want peace and quiet.
We dont need understanding just support. Most brains on the end if the male spectrum are alexithymic, those dont need any talking.
I think social support from the right people is also good for men
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
It’s True tho.
💪💪🇺🇲
YES...! 🙂👍👍 -70SomethingGuy