Still my favorite means of making a heavy character has to be "Let's have him hit people with instruments." "Okay, which instrument? Like a tuba or-" "All of them." "How would he-" "Put a whole band under his coat!"
"Also squeeze in a little Dio there" "Wait, what?" "Give him a trumpet command that stops time" "But Tuba-" "Make him punch people really fast while yelling "TUBA" repeatedly"
Love the detail with the weight description they have. The game says Big Band is 5000 lbs but his real body is only 95 lbs. The iron lung he’s in and all those instruments makes the ground shake as he moves.
I know this video is 4 years old at this point, but now, we have another character that stands aside Bob as an actually good "Fat" type character, and that's Goldlewis Dickinson.
the actual model for his animations was a really slim guy who did tricking/ninjitsu. but it somehow works. they somehow decided to make him fat so its still awesome. I prefer slim bob tho he just looks tons cooler
Some fat characters can be gluttonous and still have great design if you actually give them a personality aside from it, even becoming iconic like King Dedede or Heavy Weapons Guy.
Shady Fungus but he’s also a sort of anti villain who has a love hate relationship with Kirby and is mostly just determined to make the most powerful kingdom he can. His personality isn’t just “HUR HUR I AM FAT AND EAT TOO MUCH” he’s simplistic but he does at least have something.
Is Heavy Weapons Guy considered a slob? I mean don't get me wrong, i know he loves his sandvich, but i always thought his size was implied to be mostly muscle mass.
@@TomboTime yea, I always thought it was his muscle mass too, considering the guy literally jogs around with a minigun that weighs hundreds of kilograms. He isn't even the typical dumb fat slob stereotype, the guy has a PHD in Russian literature or something.
Heavy Weapons Guy isn't so much fat as he is literally "Weighty". He is "Fat" the same way a Sumo Wrestler or those world champion professional lifters are "fat"; they aren't actually packing fat, their bulk is deliberate controlled amassment of muscle and weight in areas to anchor them down and to literally make their body like a boulder; impossible to move, impossible to stop. Heavy Weapons Guy literally wields, you know, Heavy Weapons. Some people would be strong enough to lift the gun itself, but to jog around with it? The sheer amount of weight would have you struggling to even walk. Naturally, if you make YOURSELF heavier to compensate, the gun doesn't have as much influence over how well you can move. HWG is even characterized as the game's classical strong-man in many of his taunts and other animations, all selling this idea that Large =/= Fat. Scout of course refers to him as a "fat guy", but the Scout is ignorant about a lot of things so it's in character for him to make false assumptions. Whenever Heavy eats, it's typically either the Sandvich or Banana. Bananas are great for you, and Sandwiches pretty much have everything you want in your diet slapped on them. Hell, he even says "SANDVICH MAKE ME STROOOONG!"
We finally got this totally right with Goldlewis in Strive, who I think is the first fat character in a video game I've seen that has no references to his weight or food, just that he's strong
He does have a thing for hamburgers, but it's more a "haha American" joke than a "haha fat guy" joke. But yeah, Goldlewis is the best. Dude's built like actual strong people instead of a bodybuilder.
he has exactly two, in one scene at or near the end of the 4 hour story mode. another character chastizes him for eating too much fast food. And one victory line where he gets a pizza prank call and says "it's meal time anyway" (which I think fits his american cowboy deal more than the fat character thing) that is literally it, and I love it it's not a defining character trait, just a believable mild habit that the character has. All of his fight dialogue is focused on him enthusiasm for UMA's (which I understand as effectively cryptids) or his role as the secretary of defense. He's allowed to have a character, and it's a great one
I am surprised no one has mentioned Wario. Wario is a slob, but him being fat does not define his charecter. He has demonstrated business savy and electronic skills.. Like Bob, Wario works out to maintain his big and muscular frame. This leads him to believe he is the most handsome and charismatic guy around.
@@majorghoul9017 Don't forget that he tries to run away with the profits made off of the backs of these entrepreneurial folks, again without a second thought
Wario is extremely selfish though. Pretty much everything he does it for money. Yes he exercises, works out, and despite being kinda porky is pretty agile and can duke it with the rest of them, and he's also pretty crafty and smart. But he also has little heroic traits to differentiate too far from usual "fat" characters. Plus some games do show up being a bit unsightly from time-to-time, not just in Smash.
Bo Rai Cho is an interesting case because he is both. In the story he is portrayed as the best martial arts instructor in all the realms, he tought Liu Kang the moves that allowed him to defeat Shang Tsung, trained Li Mei, and led the Edenian army to victory against a much bigger force. I was exited to see him return because, silly me, I expected them to drop the vomit and disgusting side of him, just as they did with many of the bad stuff of MK's 3D era, but no, instead they decided to double down on it. It's such a shame.
In Rufus' defense, he apparently went on a pilgrimage to various temples to actually learn what's fact & what's fiction. Likewise, he allegedly trained by, among other things, carrying a pair of motorbikes on his back while jogging. It's not all just "imitate while lazing on a couch," from what I heard.
One thing you ignored about Rufus is that his skill is 100% legit. He didn't just watch Kung Fu movies he actually took Kung Fu classes and studied under various masters in China. Even Fei Long acknowledges Rufus is a legit Kung Fu Master.
As a fat person myself, I hate the stigma. I've always been fast, strong, and has always been athletic (even though I don't look it). I love sports, running in sand, and lifting weights. I have a love hate relationship with working out (except weight training or yoga) and have a bad relationship with food (my on and off eating disorders). I'm good at all I do, better than so many of the people I'm around. It just sucks that people only see me as fat even with all my hard earned muscle.
How can you be athletic and love sports if you are fat? If you exercise and live a healthy lifestyle like you claim you wouldn’t be fat, you’d be a healthy weight.
@@bab3419 This is patently untrue and ignores so many things like genetic conditions or a huge variety of other factors. I was very active as a child but got fat anyways because I have a genetic condition that created fatty tissue. Different types of exercise also target different things, and not every fat person is inherently unhealthy. That is false. You're looking at things too narrow mindedly without really considering if you actually know what you're talking about, as well as putting down someone who by all accounts does not need your opinion.
I actually love Rufus' design. The way he wears that long braid makes him look like a cartoon bomb. That "short fuse" both underlines his unpredictability, (which is his most prominent gameplay strength) and his tendency to "go off" at a moment's notice (his most prominent character trait). Along with the ill-fitting Bruce Lee jumpsuit you mentioned, his look says everything there is to say about him in a manner that's both original and subtle. Just because a character's an asshole doesn't mean they're a bad character.
I think his point that is that while it is a well designed character, it does nothing to break a stereotype that's very harmful, and tbh, well designed characters that help prop up stereotypes are more harmful than badly designed ones, so him having that aesthetic actually causes more issues than not.
But there is people that is fat and have a chip on their shoulder because of it. Not every character should defy stereotypes, some can play with them and give them depth and a reason. There is truth behind some stereotypes, I think a complex character can be based off of one if it goes beyond the basic traits and first impression.
I don't exactly get what stereotype Rufus portrays, even after watching the video. Like... is it that he's a jerk? Is that a fat person stereotype? If you actually listen to and read his dialogue he's incredibly satisfied with his body, he has an attractive(although ditzy) girlfriend, and he believes he should be the best and actually put effort into becoming the best, even if it was the incredibly wrong way of doing it. If the stereotype is that he's ugly, again HE thinks he looks amazing. I thought he looked ugly too at first, but he grew on me. None of his moves or personality traits are about his looks at all, he just... looks that way, and he's proud of how he looks. He doesn't do anything like eat on the battlefield. In fact you never see him eating at all except for in his SSFIV artwork Furthermore, nobody in the cast laughed at him, as far as I'm aware. Some people were against his personality, but nobody shamed him for his weight or anything. I think the closest was Fei Long's win quote where he just said "You're huge, man! Huge!" Honestly, Rufus would take it as a compliment towards his popularity anyway.... I can't really think of another vain, arrogant, but competent and light on his feet fat guy. Honestly they could just button up one of his buttons on his jumpsuit so he was less... revealing... and there wouldn't be any issues with him. Not every character has to be beautiful to be good. ... oh yeah, his girlfriend was named Candy. So, he's a fat guy who loves Candy... okay Capcom.
As a big dude I personally like Rufus a little bit more. Going with Joe's comment I want to add that I personally I like that he's a jerk, I like that he's a slob, I like that he makes crappy jokes. I don't associate all fat people like this. I associate it with Rufus. Bob is cool and all but he is honeslty he is a pretty bland person. Breaking stereotypes is cool and all but what use is that when you have the personality of a slice of white bread. I mean what other character is going to spin around hit you in the face and then proudly say "I'm sexy." Don't get me wrong I like the video, but this is a different view that should be voiced as well. Gameplay wise both of these characters are great. Personality wise, Rufus is more memorable than Bob.
but what makes Rufus great is that he doesnt give a damn and went his own way. Rufus is not trying to defy the stereotype, he is purposely diving straight in, and making it glorious. Think of the life rufus has, he goes wherever he pleases, gets to fight to his heart's content, actually went to china to complement his observations and has a hot girlfriend who adores him. Isnt that enough compensation for being a "weird" fat guy?
Honestly I hope he comes back and has a sort of "redemption arc", kind of like Dan Habaki, who started out as a completely pathetic person personality wise to becoming unironically one of the best characters in the canon
That Capcom manager's reply is literally the mindset of the bad guys of the X-Men lmao, that all that matters about them is their powers and nothing else
This video is fairly well produced, but I didn't particularly love the format or arguments. You spent very little of the video actually discussing the design of fat characters like the title implies. Instead, you talk almost entirely about two characters who _don't_ properly fit the archetype this video is supposedly about, and even then, most of what you have to say there is morality based rather than game design discussion.
Eh, when a character type is saturated with so much boring sameyness, it kinda makes the outliers the only ones worth talking about. I do agree that going into more of the actual physical designs would've been nice. But I would add that to the video, rather than having it replace anything. The morality thing is a thing, but it does bleed into design too, since audience association with certain design elements has an effect. Why IS Rufus's snail trail disgusting? Objectively it's just an off-yellow triangle, not even convincingly hairlike. But the association with him almost being like hanging his cock out of the undone zipper is what gives it that effect - it suggests something there's a morality connection to. So in the same way with the excessive and relentless stereotyping, while it's not the same thing, it's related. Also it's quite interesting to have a comparison where one subversion attempt succeeds dramatically while another subversion attempt fails dramatically. So I can understand why that was the focus. If you were to do a video on fat character design in fighting games, would you not focus on that comparison? Maybe not to as high a percentage as this video, but I feel it unrealistic to think you wouldn't. It's a bit of an intrigue gimme, in a sea of otherwise mostly utter drab. Having said that, there are things to talk about in the more stereotypical examples though. As someone very obese myself (and athletic too), while I don't love his slovenly eating, I do love Birdie's walk cycles. That severe back pain posture is too real. In this way I think he even has a leg-up over the generally-excellent Bob - sure you can be graceful and speedy whilst fat but you do FEEL it and it does still show in how you move around. Before the lockdown I would throw myself around a wrestling ring doing rolls and dropkicks and such... but they're necessarily modified. They can't be the same rolls or jumps a thinner person does. Simple body dimensions don't allow it. I think I would design a fat fighting game character with all that in mind. Then again, I think I would design a lot more of a grounded fighting game in general than most, as that's just simply my personal preference, and as a bonus it's also not something that's really done yet (outside of the hard moveset limits and actual people in MMA) so it'd fill a nice niche. Something brutal and fantastical, but in a more connected way to the real world. A midpoint. For a fat character, my thought is... there's a reason they're fat. There's a reason they're a fighter. Whatever those reasons are have to coexist, and to use maybe an unfortunate choice of words, one can't be allowed to eat the other. With Rufus, I feel like that's what fell down a hole - his reasons why he's fat completely devoured his reason why he's a fighter, and his fighting skill is left more out-of-nowhere magical-seeming than a bloody fireball. With Bob, they kept that balanced. Sorry for rambling on, obviously only read all of that if you feel like doing so.
I love Bob! He’s an amazing character. The type i would love to be friends with in real life. I also wish there was more fat female characters who are not are just there to be a scarecrow for male characters (like “ewwww look it’s fat woman so ugly run awaaaay”). And not just “thin waist + enormous hips” combo. Someone fat and confident and likeable. We need more of that!
Big ups for Dulia-Chai from FFXIV: Shadowbringers. The circumstances surrounding her size aren't terribly dignified, representing a portrayal of decadent high society existing in immediate proximity to poverty and starvation, but it has little bearing on her actual personality, being a genuinely loving and honest character amid a sea of ignorant and unempathetic aristocrats. Ask anyone who's played through if they would die for her and the answer will universally be yes.
not a fighting game, but wild guns reloaded actually has a pretty cool fat woman character with lightning gauntlets and weird stun shit, and she genuinely might be the most fun character in the game and has a cool design.
All the reasons you list why Rufus “doesn’t work” is exactly the reason why I liked him back in SFIV. I think he’s fun and goofy, and I like his character design. I think Capcom could’ve developed his character in later games too, but they sadly kept him as a one note joke character. They could’ve given him a character arc similar to Po from Kung Fu Panda, where he’s brash, clumsy, and dumb in the beggining, but overtime he becomes humbled, and maybe learns some real kung fu. I think that would’ve helped in making him a more likeable character to other people like you.
Rufus works because what he does matches his personality. Sometimes a person is a self-absorbed hothead that happens to eat too much. He cares more about trying to be cool, but he does not understand that cool is generally a side-effect of being highly successful.
I’ve always loved Bob, he immediately stood out as a fat character, even without knowing his full backstory it seemed he knew his differences to the other fighters and was all for it. Hands down my favorite fat guy next to Peter Griffin.
There is now a line of Tekken players outside your door waiting to beat the shit out of you for saying that. Most Tekken players hate Bob for how overpowered he was in 6.
He was great but fair in Tag2 and completely fair and well balanced in T7, we forgave him. Cheap or not, he still has some of the best animations in the Tekken universe!
In all honesty I think you accidentally made a case about how Rufus is the best fat character comic relief trope instead of being a trainwreck of a design. Like, think about it: Bo Rai Cho: Supposedly wicked powerful. Teacher of Liu Kang and Kung Lao. Holds a regular fighting stance. Farts and pukes in action... Earthquake: Supposed to be a ninja, but it's the most easily recognizable character in the ENTIRE DAMN CAST. Extremely arrogant and unironically believes to be a great ninja. Has butt slams... Raiden: Stereotypical henchmen. Since he's fat he has a poison breath. Birdie: Used to be strong, turned to fat, changed focus to food/based abilities. Rufus though, he doesn't have any pig-ish move. He's delusional, but most comic relief characters are regardeless of body type. His stance already conveys amauterism and his every animation reinforces the idea. He's not fat to make fun of fat people or to reinforce any stereotype, he's fat to further emphasize that he's a poser. Rufus might be an annoying character, but he's probably one of the most creative uses of a fat character design.
I think what makes Gold Dick better than these two is that sure, he's another fat American character who is kinda associated with food (but not really) but unlike Bob and Rufus he isn't defined by the "fat/fast" joke. Sometimes that design can feel like a workaround for not actually dealing with the design challenges of making a heavyweight character. Goldlewis has impeded mobility but makes up for it with his oppressive pressure and guard crush with his coffin, which is the main centerpiece for his character. He also uses a drone and heavy weaponry, fitting with his job title. I also think designing an American character around a cryptid/area 51 is very clever due to how prevalent it is in US culture, as well as being really funny
I think Bob was made to be a cool character, but Rufus is meant just to be a Goofy one that makes us laugh and look down on him, but the fact that he can back up all the bragging he does, unlike Dan, just make him a lot more interesting because of the shock value. He is a unconventional fighter and I love those types of characters. Not everyone needs to look "cool", beign unique is so much more important for me. I hope we see more of Rufus somewhere in the future (and hopefully throw away some of the shotos).
Rufus definitely didn't work for everyone, but I agree that there was definitely something there that would be worth salvaging and maybe refining for future use. The concept of a self trained fighter certainly isn't a bad one, I'd say a lot of fighting game fans, especially ones that practice the arts, were inspired by films or games and probably tried to emulate what they saw. Taking that to the extreme seems like a fine idea to me.
I mean Rufus is meant as a contrast to Ken, and is more an stereotypical American character: - Obnoxious - Dim-witted - Boorish - Arrogant - Obese Yet while you mention the win quotes and show cutscenes, those reveal that: - He's rich - His girlfriend is hot - He lives a good life in general - The other characters compliment his fighting style So he seems to be made to contrast with the other more positive American characters like Ken (Who is not coincidentally his rival) and Guile. Also the Dark Souls example, Siegmward, Siegmeyer, and Smough are not fat, they just wear thick armor.
I don't really feel that Rufus is a bad character. I feel that Bob is supposed to be cool and respectable while Rufus isn't. I think you assume that Rufus is supposed to be serious.
Hold Guard Rufus is not meant to be a stereotypical FAT character, his obesity is incidental. He’s a stereotypical AMERICAN: Blonde, fat, oversexualized, reckless, rude, informed by movies, bombastic, red-faced, volatile and ignorant. He’s a caricature of how most other populations view Americans.
I think the primary difference between these two is that, for the Tekken universe, Bob is a straight archetype with a twist and Rufus is a joke character. And I'm pretty sure the oldest design stereotype in the fighting game book is the Japanese karate guy whose entire life is about finding a strong opponent to improve his karate.
Why not both? They are fat with context. But not defined by how they look. Roadhog is dope, quiet, cool and aggressive with a lil hidden soft side in the odd taunt. Varied charecteristics, a flawed protagonist if you will, just like how junk rat is rude and irritating but confident, forgiving and not afraid to make fun of himself. I like this I think visuals should compliment charecter and not the other way around (this is challenging for games what with hit boxes so you kind of have to do it backwards)
@@flamaniax5728 When I'm designing characters for modding it's usually a back and forth process. I start with some base mechanical idea, let that inform the character design, let that inform specific attacks, feed that back to further refining the character, etc.
Bob's design and back story made me excitedly want to play him, and he quickly became one of my most favored characters in Tekken even though he was so new.
Roadhog is perfect blend of stereotypes about fat characters, even having a pig on his belly and doing the whole biker thing to boot.. he is aggressive and depraved (criminal).. but he’s silent and holds an air of respectability, denotes traits of understanding and compassion as well as the deepest patience for junkrat buffoonery lol .. he’s shown to be way more clever then his appearance at first conveys.. its a nuance that makes him feel more real even with the fantastical elements he embodies and that trait oozes out of the entire cast and world.. overwatch has incredible character and world building.. a masterclass of simple yet deep game design
Hell, he made a drug that's able to get rid of radiation poisoning just by inhaling the stuff. He's a freaking genius who fought in a war, and he's earned his badassery. Plus, you can see both his professionalism and his own personal flair when he takes down foes. I'd honestly love it if Roadhog got into a fighting game as a guest character (especially if he were to go up against Bob or another large character).
I somehow neglected to include footage of Roadhog in this video, even though I had some thoughts about him in regard to this topic. Overall I think Roadhog is a cool character compared to other fat characters; he's still big and slow, but his design cleverly conveys that he's the only tank character in the game that doesn't have armor or shields, hence having his big belly exposed all the time. More than that, there's a more prevalent theming to his design and function that enforces that he's not just big, he's scary. The heavy breathing under the gas mask, his extremely menacing scrap shotgun, and just the fact that his game function is to hook players means that just looking at Hog immediately informs a player that they should keep away from him. And yes he could have easily been a hulked out muscle man instead, but as you said his physical condition is reflective of his life circumstances; he's fat because he is in constant need of an extremely toxic gas that sustains him, a condition that reflects his origins in the harsh, nuclear Mad Max wasteland of Overwatch's future Australia. Beyond that, Blizzard has even gone out of their way to express a sort of 'cuteness' about Roadhog; not only are round, bulbous shapes naturally appealing and friendly-looking, but he has a few poses like his Tuckered Out sitting pose or his victory pose where he's huddling onto a bundle of stolen firecrackers adds charm to an otherwise monstrous character. -A.B.I.
One of my favorite fat characters and one of my favorite characters in the Witcher is Sigismund Dijkstra. People usually think he's a big lumber dumb oaf but he's actually one of the smartest guys around, and witty to boot. Using his appearance in his character still without referencing food every twenty seconds.
RAZZA I like Po a lot. He's like Rufus (Kung-Fu fan who imitated his idols before receiving proper training) but less intentionally obnoxius and more comical
It feels good to see Bob in the spotlight every now and then. I remember picking him up and learning his moveset in arcades and on handhelds all those years ago, and eventually thanks to him I learned about Sammo Hung.
"hey let make a fat character that it's actually graceful and fast" "So you mean hits hard and hits fast?" "Yes" "Wonderful design!" More info in Bob made Tekken 6 a joke
Saw a clip about a parkour runner getting extremely sick and gained weight in the process. After recovery, he went back into parkour and doing flips while having a big beer belly. Incredible movements and speed.
Thing is, rufus is a joke, but unlike dan hibiki, he is fun to play as! I actually took the time to master him and ended up being really good at using him.
Lily Leviton What point? The whole video is just talking about their backstory, personality, and fighting style. He never makes any point why Rufus fails at challenging the far stereotype or bob wins. Also to play Devils advocate, Rufus is a better fat character than Bob. Bob relies on being fat to make his character engaging while It never mattered if Rufus was fat, he still would be a bombastic buffoon who watched Naruto for his fighting style.
That was the entire video... Fat people are often seen as messy, lazy, incompetent jerks. Rufus is the perfect incarnation of this stereotype while Bob is the opposite. A good point, but not the topic at hand.
Lily Leviton Look at the intro to the video, a fat stereotype is a slow powerhouse who's character revolves around food. Rufus doesn't fit this criteria, his character isn't guy eats food and uses his weight to win, he watched a lot of kung-fu movies and sparked a drive to fight inside of him. Him being fat is supplementary, its only their to show that he would train by watching kung-fu movies so much he gained weight. He talks about Rufus' attire as if it wasn't perfectly fitting for him as a character, someone who idealizes kung-fu movies. The only reason why Sugar punch says Rufus is a bad fat stereotype is because Rufus' character doesn't idolize being fat, he has character flaws and rotten quirks. He completely ignores Rufus being part of a biker gang, something pretty notorious for housing bad characters. It feels like he is just butthurt that a fat character is portray in a negative light, even if it unjust.
That's not a fat stereotype. That's just the way fat characters are used in video games. Rufus isn't just a rotten character. He has all the harmful stereotypes that are associated with fat people.
Bobs motto is 'Speed and Weight!' For a reason. Also when people tried to say they wanted to play the skinny bob one of tekkens designers said 'why? Fat bob is cooler!' However i just cant figure out how the flying hell Rufus can confuse Ryu Dan Posion and Cammey for Ken.
Actually, rufus is the only gat stereotype function character I like, as he's honestly hilarious. Sure he has a bit of gross traits, bit they aren't his focus most the time. More so his focus is that he's great at fighting, able to perfect moves by merely watching them, but his moves chosen to copy are usually meant for style rather than practicality, but despite this he puts them to use, using his body as a means to use moves that otherwise would not be as effective, like is spin move more than likely uses his gut as a means to increase the momentum. And in spire of what seems like laziness, he clearly works put more than you'd think, as he pushed a motorcycle with his girlfriend it many MANY miles through the desert and came put walking fine, only needing a brief drench of water when he finally made it to the gas station. He just doesn't show his muscle like the freak of nature Honda does... abs don't work like that... He's also lost in his own little world, as anyone who is blonde or wears a karate gi he mistakes for his rival, and is stuck thinking he's the protagonist of his own movie world, as he thinks DeeJay wants to be his apprentice. This is hilarious as he seems to go on a rant about how great he is or even just how his day went or how ninjas look. His girlfriend also committed dine and dash, but because he learned from movies that a woman in distress must be innocent and in need of protecting, he beats up the wrong people, and Candy becomes his girl, because he looked cool doing it, and as a result, she constantly feeds into his delusions of the world. All of this aligns into a bizarrely hilarious concoction that other fat archetypes only WISH they could be, and makes the world of streetfighter a more interesting place... Now if only they'd give him a better outfit...
@@superkid2815 He probably won't, but the dude's still right. Rufus isn't really the bad fat character stereotype that Sugarpunch desperately wants them to be.
Another aspect od his moves that I feel works is that he was trained by legit kung fu masters, so they likely helped him to use a form of Kung Fu that plays to his major strength, that being momentum. You see a lot of his moves place an emphasis on movement.
First video of yours I've watched, and the arguments are pretty poorly made, it kind of implies that any fat character who isn't perfect is "fuelling the stereotype", I'll watch more because the video quality is really good, but I have to dislike this one.
I think he's saying that the overwhelming majority of the portrayal of overweight people is negative, akin to maybe how some women feel about their common over-sexualization in games. On top of this, Rufus is not really a great character, he's just like a 'Dan' character. No real person is just a walking punchline. Think of like Chris Farley in Beverly Hills Ninja, but as a deadly martial artist somehow.
MKG176 the reason being overweight is usually portrayed as negative is because being overweight isn’t exactly a good thing and is not a lifestyle that should be shown in a positive light.
@MegA I want you to go look up an old pro boxer nick-named "Butterbean." Then, look up an ex-Yokozuna, Hakuho Futahaguro. Finally, look up an ex-strongman named Zydrunas Savickas. The point is, you look at any of these guys and you are the type of person to call them "overweight" or "undesirable," but once you actually look up their accomplishments tell me why they needed to be thin exactly?
I think there is an unnoticed difference between bad personality and bad chararcter design. Why metanarrative of this video is: "it is ok to be fat if you have good personality or you just cool and stuff"? Also both of this characters do not represent "fat character architype" or function or whatever. They're both acrobatic and fast. I know, there are some baloon like characters in fighting games but they more a mockery of fat people. So their more like "fat but weightless stereotype" which is not exactly just "fat stereotype". Well I'm rambling. Anyway. Not a best video on the channel.
Agree with this, not every fat character should do justice to fat people like they're perfect. Rufus might be an idiot, but there ARE idiots in the world. And there are fat idiots too. The fact that there is a level of character development for him makes him more than just a stereotype for me.
Yeah, it's a well edited video visually, but the point presented in the narration, is very lacking of self awareness. The point is that Rufus is worse because he's weird and dumb, like any realistic person? Just fodder for the "analytical video" phase of youtube that's thankfully dying out
Perhaps it is not so much that Rufus alone is idiotic and fat, but because as far as fat characters go who don't get associated with either food/grossness/laziness/something similar, there aren't many. Let's face it. Everyone has problems, but being fat is just a problem that people can see the easiest, compared to say an addiction to smoking or a mental disorder. Because people can see it with ease, they can call it out easier and ignore any good attributes a larger set person would have. You don't even need to have an addiction to food to get fat. Our modern lifestyles and such can easily get someone on the heavier end if they aren't careful enough, or their parents made poor lifestyle choices for them as a kid, and so on. Having fat and stupid characters like Rufus won't be such a problem in the future by comparison if say, we get more larger set characters who's existence isn't just revolved around them being fat and having a bunch of negative traits. We just need more of a balance, is all.
So basically, Bob is the exact _wrong_ way to make a fat character, because his form clashes entirely with his function. It would be like if Cammy were a ponderously sluggish grappler type.
Repeat with me: IT'S A VIDEOGAME, some characters throw fireballs from his hands, so don't be stupid about realism when you're talking about fighting games or fiction in general.
I actually relate to Bob a lot. I struggled with heavier people than me even when I have better technique and speed, I didn't use it, I was stubborn and wanted to stand my ground but got put in my place really easily. Thank god I know how to listen to advice nowadays
Too bad this video was made before Goldlewis Dickinson was made, he's probably the best fat character in a fighting game since he's not seen as a joke character.
In terms of their visual designs, I agree 100% with everything brought out in this video. BUT, I respectfully disagree with the thesis that Bob > Rufus, on a narrative level. According to you, Bob is fat because, when he was a slim fighter, larger ones would best him, so his solution wasn't to bulk up muscle, but to... become obese? At least Rufus' story of being a biker who likes martial arts movies who then one day decides to train and become a martial artist is, in that context alone, inspirational. Speaking as a fat person myself, I am telling you, definitively, that none of us would have made the conscious choice to be obese for ANY reason. So Bob, as a concept, offends me. "I got fat to be a better fighter" What? No.
Bob actually didn't do that at first, he tried bulking up, but he lost his flexibility. And he became slower. He began stress eating because he couldn't find a solution. Wen he saw he was getting fat, he quickly trained to loose weight, but in doing so he found he had better balance and he had mass behind his strikes now. I myself am quite fat. I'm 140kgs Even with my size I can do a full split and I can now do Splits on 2 chairs. I owe that to Aikido excercises. Bob is an exaggeration yes. But wats important her is that bob became who he is through his own efforts. Hes not gonna encourage anyone to be like him because he's focused on himself. I always thought he was cool because he's the best version of himself. And that's inspiring. Rufus thinks hes at the pinical and he deserves respect because he says so. Which is actually rather damaging for him and others around him. It's not his fat that makes Rufus bad. Hes bad because hes a entitled selfish idiot. And I like both characters. But bob is better.
walter conley how does it could that offend you? Makes zero sense that you should be offended by someone who chooses to become obese not caring for what people have to say about his body. Unlike others that get fat, don’t do anything about it but get mad when someone brings it up (Rufus)
I think that's actually physically impossible? Fat grows over muscle, so it's impossible that there would be any abs shaping on *top* of the fat. -A.B.I.
...To be honest I'm not sure what they're going for there. Like, this thing looks so much like abs body fat...? Since it can't be muscle and it has to be fat, why on earth does it look the way it does? o_O
There is such a thing as fat that develops beneath the muscle, at least in the abdomen. It's common from certain kinds of diet, among other factors, and can (or so I've heard) actually be more of a health risk than fat that develops over the muscles of the abdomen. I'm not sure you can ever really have a significant enough impact on the distribution of fat above and below the muscle to have visible abs over a bulging gut, though. All examples I've seen of a rounded, yet ripped, abdomen have been due to an excess of muscle mass focused on the abdomen.
Actually I never assumed E. Honda was obese, I assumed he was built like an ultimate strong man. Meaning that he emphasized function over appearance. You know since only bodybuilders are generally the only ones concerned about body fat percentages since it can cause point deductions in competitions.
Actually on top of that may I add that sumo wrestlers in general ARE the anti-thesis of the stereotypical "lazy fat person?" After watching sumo wrestling matches I have learned that in order to win a match you have to be pretty darn smart, strong, and super flexible! Yeah, sure, they are hefty guys, the added weight helps in pushing people around. But actually HANDLE people that big? Yeah, you got to pretty strong yourself.
character with no flaws: well designed character character with flaws: poorly designed character. sorry dude but thats not how this works...also doing the opposite of whatever stereotype there is about your character is a much bigger stereotype than the fat lazy character.
I personally hate Bob and most of the characters that came from Tekken 6 but you’re absolutely right about this topic. Tekken did something unique with the fat character trope while Rufus just made it worse.
This video made me want to play Bob. I actively avoided him when I first booted up Tekken 7 because I thought he was going to be a Rufus sort of character. Really interested in him now that I know he isn't.
Rufus is one of the most polished "newer" SF characters to date. He is a silly character, but it isn't because of his weight, it is because of his personality. Yeah, visually he is a fat guy in spandex, but he is more than that. He is loud, obnoxious, and overlooks details. He is determined to be the best fighter, even creating a rivalry with Ken, and often mistaking others for him. He is Zangief's tag team partner, both believing they are perfect models for fighting. He is the king of bikers in America. He has an attractive girlfriend who loves him. He also has funny/interesting relationships with many other characters, such as believing Dhalsim is an alien or how Dee Jay and him should team up to make great music. A lot of other SF characters, especially the joke characters, are just there to be there. Sure his motive to be a great fighter isn't anything unique to the franchise, but there are characters like Honda or El Fuerte, who are just one dimensional with only one thing to talk about all the time. Rufus has input on nearly everyone in SF, all which are unique for the character he is talking to, instead of asking literally everyone what they like to eat, the way Fuerte does. You know who Bob is? A good fighter who is there to tell the world he is a fat guy. One dimensional. Boring. Rufus doesn't need to tell the world how fat he is, Rufus is there to show everyone how he is the best fighter. His personality and weight have nothing to do with each other, but the combination makes him that more of an interesting character for the SF franchise. Even on the rare occasion when Rufus' weight is brought up, it is for comedic purposes and isn't the only focus. His special moves even have names not related to weight, such as Snake Strike and Galactic Tornado. Fat characters don't need to only talk about how fat they are. Rufus>Bob always. Also you went to great length showcasing Bob's movements, but only gave Rufus a single clip showing his moves when talking about it. Just saying. If we're talking moves, the two of them are both fast fat guys. I don't know how one is considered worse than the other in this situation. Bob had personal trainers and money to back up his moves, Rufus just watched TV, who is the real better fighter?
Bob was given literally everything to be able to do what he does. And underneath the fat, it's Rufus has quite a bit of muscle as shown by how he trained (by running whilst hauling a motorbike over each shoulder, and considering their size I'd say he's carrying about 300-400 kilos there depending on the CC of the ending). Rufus has the joke, yeah, but he's not JUST a joke, and that's what makes him a good character. He's a good fighter, with a good relationship outside of the ring and is just proud to be who he is. Sure, that pride sometimes extends into arrogance, but that often happens
I actually like E. Honda...and could care less about Bob, and hate Rufus. Honda is a fun loving, yet honorable character. Plus, he actually plays like a large character- and he's never presented as "fat' like Rufus or SFV Birdie, but rather just big- and plays as such.
A lot of people think that being muscular and fat are polar opposties, when that isn't always the case. Besides Sumos, a lot of weightlifters have a lot of weight to go with their muscles. Maui from Moana is a really good example of what this body type is, and in a good amount of cases it's actualy nore realistic. I'd love to see more good fat charatcers in not just fighting games, but in media as a whole. What if we went further and had a fat female charatcer? There's a lot of unexplored potential here
Hey, you mentioned you’re a GG fan, so I’d like your opinion on Goldlewis, seeing that he’s also a fat character. He does fall under the category of being a fat guy who’s a leader, but I personally love how strong willed the dude is, even willing to put himself on the front lines for his country. Sure, he can be a bit oblivious at times, but overall, I think he’s a well designed character, in terms of gameplay and personality.
i feel like this video is pretty skin-deep in terms of exploring the design philosophy of fat characters. a big pointer here is that both of these characters were created by japanese designers. there is a long-standing cultural notion of fatness meaning great strength in their history; starting with sumo wrestlers, who are looked up to a great deal. characters in asian cinema continued this trend, with actors such as sammo hung, who displayed great stuntmanship besides his physicality and was astonishingly fit for his body type. a wave of imposing fat characters came to japan with the exploding popularity of pro wrestling, and perhaps the most famous and notorious villain of the genre in asia, abdullah the butcher. if you ever see a fat guy in overalls, baggy pants and pointy shoes in japanese media, its a reference to him (for example, mr. heart of hokuto no ken is pretty much abdullah with different proportions). wrestlers like big van vader continued the trend. sumo wrestlers also become tangled in this world in a strange mix, with examples such as the former yokozuna akebono taro starting a career in puroresu after retiring from sumo. there have been many popular fat celebrities in the public's eye, as there are today. the japanese concept of the "Real" also works as such that eating great amounts of food is seen as manly feat. this is relevant in terms of fat female characters/people sometimes being perceived as less feminine, along with the "fat=strength" notion. it is debatable if the huge surge of western influence in japan after ww2 had an effect on the perception of fat stereotypes in japanese culture, but americans certainly see a larger share of overweight people, and japan loves creating their stereotypes. for example, a generic american cop in japanese media seems to often be a pig-neck fatso chowing down on donuts. for japanese people, being overweight is REALLY a deviation from the norm; an estimated 3-6% of japanese people are overweight (by the standards of a modern western bmi chart), compared to the 30-35% of american people. there is, of course, negative association with fatness in japan, as there is in most cultures. the famous saying over there goes "the nail that sticks out will be hammered down"; the honor culture creates an environment where most people feel you are responsible for your own actions and decisions, which includes being overweight or not losing weight. comments about being obese, in terms of positivity, negativity or astonishment come up often with relevant persons. fat jokes are more common too. with both good and bad sides, it is not very taboo to openly speak of somebody's obesity. so right away, the fatness of a character in japanese media often communicates their physical strength (more in fantasy material; morbidly obese and large-built doctor kosaku tokita from the film paprika is unusually portrayed as physically quite weak, although morally and intellectually much above average). you can see where this goes, and what the japanese designers thought when they made bob and rufus. interestingly, both of these characters are american. even more tellingly of japanese values, both of them have blonde hair, blue eyes and facial hair, traits that are seen as stereotypically american. perhaps the idea is that the characters are meant to be seen as american first, morbidly obese second. i have no way to know, though. as many posters have pointed out, rufus is a much less negative character than was insisted in the video. i have a hard time thinking of instances where his fatness is brought into a negative light; sure he acts like a hotheaded jerk, but it is not written to be inherent to his obese character. he is, in fact, written to be very proud of his body and appearance with great stamina and a hot chick. the only other options whether rufus' obesity should be looked at negatively are 1. the designers are trolling and you are obviously meant to laugh at him, or 2. of course he is worthy of ridicule, he is fat. for option number 1, there is really nothing in terms of writing or story that suggests that rufus is to be despised because of his obesity more than his awful nature. he is shown eating, but not insane amounts, and he does make food puns and jokes. then again, so does el fuerte. number 2 is all on the audience to choose. the complaint that "fat characters are shown as gluttonous" is weak. it is the same as a sickly thin character shown refusing food: one of a handful of mental quirks/choices that alters the way you appear physically. there is literally no other way to get fat other than eating more calories than you burn, unless you have a disease. after that it's an issue whether its relevant to the character design that rufus gets fat very easily because he has hypothyroidism. last couple of notes: rufus and bob are both fantasy characters, who do impossible feats. in this case, their impossible feats are being morbidly obese and agile world-class martial artists. they exist within the same unrealistic fantasy as 50-year old dictators who fly around with psychic energy and underdressed body-ideal pro wrestler women who dominate you in public. there's an argument that a character being fat should not matter at all. i wonder if this is meant in terms of both negative and positive aspects; if bob being fat does not matter, he cannot be proud of his body. holy shit i wrote a lot about video game fat guys!!!
Funnily enough Bob falls under the E Honda problem while Rufus is more complex a character than most people realise. Bob's entire schtick is speed and weight and there is little else about Bob otherwise Rufus went to China to learn Kung Fu, he biked his way to various kung fu masters to sort out the movie magic from the practical moves. Rufus is a legend amongst bikers, has a girlfriend, and is one of only 2 characters in street fighter who recognize E Honda is undermining his own goal of promoting sumo by street fighting. There is more to Rufus than meets the eye, and you not seeing that kinda shows that you, too, have fallen under the trap of obese sterotypes despite warning your audience against it.
Other who also recognizes Honda's bad effect is Dan Hibiki who has more "realistic" build as well. Self-taught, not a prodigy and always broke and still soldiers on.
they are just a good and a bad american stereotype, I don't think rufus is that bad, but I clearly see that the guy from tekken has a lot of charisma and it's a badass. Good video and analysis.
i completely agree with the closing statement: while it's ok to have stereotypical fat, and even fat+disgusting characters, they should never be the only kind of fat character that we have; they should be a relatively small minority
I remember meeting this capoeira master from Brazil that was literally nicknamed "mountain" for his size. You can imagine my surprise and awe when I witnessed this guy literally defying gravity in a fight. I rarely play Tekken or fighting games in general but I remember Bob as a nice breath of fresh air.
I don’t care about the differences of these characters. Just because Rufus is “ugly” and “repulsive” doesn’t make him a bad character. A character is everything that they envelop whether you like it or not.
Is it necessarily a bad thing that Honda's personality reflects who he is at his core? Sumo is his entire life, it makes perfect sense that he's so passionate about it.
In what way is Rufus exactly a fat stereotypical character other than him happening to being fat? There is nothing disgusting or whatever you said here. Rufus is a "I am an idiot"-character who happens to be fat. That's literally it.
Der Maskierte Muchacho Umm... there are actually quite a lot of things that Rufus is that make him a bad character. Firstly, his colour scheme is meant to convey a disgusting image as his costume is covered in a grimy yellow tone which clashes with his skin. Not to mention that his hair colour also further conveys this concept. Secondly, his story is that he became a professional fighter by watching Kung Fu movies? If you’re going to tell me that isn’t lazy writing I don’t know what is. Thirdly, Rufus isn’t just an “I’m an idiot” character otherwise he’d be well received. His personality is over exaggerated to the point where nobody cares anymore, and that’s what makes Bob better. Bob overall is a character you’d get along with in real life because he makes sense. A character is supposed to have a relatable personality otherwise the entire image falls apart. The main thing I’m trying to say is, the people who like Rufus are the people who liked playing as him rather than his design or backstory. He’s only a favourite fighter to fans and will never truly be understood for his character because it’s so sloppy and easily ignored if you’re only playing for the fights. Edit: I also meant to say that Rufus isn’t a heavyweight at all because his attacks feel like every other standard hit, while Bob hits with power.
@@tremendousnachocandy1088 Oh, so anyone with yellow clothes and blonde hair is "grimy" and "disgusting"? Looks like the only person pushing negative stereotypes is you. He became a professional fighter after being INSPIRED by kung-fu movies and traveling to china to train with the best. If you think that's a flimsy motivation, check out MMA fighter Israel "iforgothislastname" - literally inspired by anime to pickup fighting, and he recently beat the GOAT Anderson Silva. Being an idiot character doesn't mean you will be well received, that's entirely subjective and you're implying the only reason he ISN'T well received is because he's a fat idiot character - yeah that's fucking stupid, you know that too right? I imagine you were supposed to phrase that better. Either way,you can hate or love rufus as much as you like, but the fact remains that he is an idiot character - whether you find that annoying or not is up to you.
Josh O I wasn’t here to be overly aggressive, I was only saying that all this stuff combined makes Rufus so unappealing. You really could have written your own comment better.
Rufus' personality is just an accurate representation of the average american. Especially those that didnt go to school and therefore survived up to adulthood due to never being a target for school shooters
@Gojira Sentai Well... Now she's a bit broken and considered cheap espwcially online. Her hop kick crushes both highs and lows. The perfect panic move.
You hype up bob like hes more than Rufus or sfv birdie, but at the end of the day they're identical. Bob's only trait is that he is fat but also fast, at least birdie and rufus have actual personalities. Bob has never gotten even a smidgeon of character development, he is a one note joke character.
I always loved playing Rufus. he was my main for so many years playing SF4 and SFxT. So many years and I kinda miss him in the recent capcom game ^^'...
I absolutely love this video. Bob is one of my favorite Tekken characters because of the fact that he became fat willingly and didn't sacrifice his speed. That whole concept is dope to me. Not to mention that he has a really cool and dynamic fighting style. He's my main in Tekken 7. Thank you for making this video.
I think Pudge from Dota works very well as a fat character. His back story as a butcher who descended into cannibalism ties neatly into his abilities and audiovisual design (he literally looks like a Flesh Heap, which is the name of his passive skill). Depending on the team you're on, he can come off either as a terrifying figure straight out of a slasher flick or a goofy fatso (ruclips.net/video/2wk-R_9cK60/видео.html goes into this a bit more, and offers more insight into Dota). It helps as well that Dota 2's sound design and voice acting are some of the best in gaming. It's also worth noting that despite his revolting looks Pudge is by far Dota's most popular character.
As much as I like most of this video I don’t think Rufus is a bad character, I always thought of him as a weird joke character and his obnoxiously long dialogue made him funny in a strange way
Still my favorite means of making a heavy character has to be
"Let's have him hit people with instruments."
"Okay, which instrument? Like a tuba or-"
"All of them."
"How would he-"
"Put a whole band under his coat!"
"Also squeeze in a little Dio there"
"Wait, what?"
"Give him a trumpet command that stops time"
"But Tuba-"
"Make him punch people really fast while yelling "TUBA" repeatedly"
Big band? 😂😂😂
And make his body an augmented iron lung!
You done funked
*up*
*_NOW!_*
Love the detail with the weight description they have. The game says Big Band is 5000 lbs but his real body is only 95 lbs. The iron lung he’s in and all those instruments makes the ground shake as he moves.
I know this video is 4 years old at this point, but now, we have another character that stands aside Bob as an actually good "Fat" type character, and that's Goldlewis Dickinson.
Came to make that comment. I guess he's also pretty strong since there's that one behemoth typhoon where he swings the coffin but his belly do jiggle.
@@MaestroAlvis He's beeg but he has the strength to back it up and i love it.
Such a good character design i've never even labelled him as a fat character
@@ashtar3876 Yeah, it's almost as if it's never brought up.
69 likes, make a wish!
I don't love Bob aesthetically, but you can't hate a character that is so confident and proud about his physique.
Ikr?
He at least has good reason and control in combat for that and with that weight. I can like him very easily.
Good point. I love how fast and deliberate his moves are. It really flips your expectation on its head.
SPEED AND WEIGHT
the actual model for his animations was a really slim guy who did tricking/ninjitsu. but it somehow works. they somehow decided to make him fat so its still awesome. I prefer slim bob tho he just looks tons cooler
Some fat characters can be gluttonous and still have great design if you actually give them a personality aside from it, even becoming iconic like King Dedede or Heavy Weapons Guy.
But KD is kind of a slob... Kind of...
Shady Fungus but he’s also a sort of anti villain who has a love hate relationship with Kirby and is mostly just determined to make the most powerful kingdom he can. His personality isn’t just “HUR HUR I AM FAT AND EAT TOO MUCH” he’s simplistic but he does at least have something.
Is Heavy Weapons Guy considered a slob?
I mean don't get me wrong, i know he loves his sandvich, but i always thought his size was implied to be mostly muscle mass.
@@TomboTime yea, I always thought it was his muscle mass too, considering the guy literally jogs around with a minigun that weighs hundreds of kilograms. He isn't even the typical dumb fat slob stereotype, the guy has a PHD in Russian literature or something.
Heavy Weapons Guy isn't so much fat as he is literally "Weighty".
He is "Fat" the same way a Sumo Wrestler or those world champion professional lifters are "fat"; they aren't actually packing fat, their bulk is deliberate controlled amassment of muscle and weight in areas to anchor them down and to literally make their body like a boulder; impossible to move, impossible to stop.
Heavy Weapons Guy literally wields, you know, Heavy Weapons. Some people would be strong enough to lift the gun itself, but to jog around with it? The sheer amount of weight would have you struggling to even walk. Naturally, if you make YOURSELF heavier to compensate, the gun doesn't have as much influence over how well you can move. HWG is even characterized as the game's classical strong-man in many of his taunts and other animations, all selling this idea that Large =/= Fat.
Scout of course refers to him as a "fat guy", but the Scout is ignorant about a lot of things so it's in character for him to make false assumptions.
Whenever Heavy eats, it's typically either the Sandvich or Banana. Bananas are great for you, and Sandwiches pretty much have everything you want in your diet slapped on them. Hell, he even says "SANDVICH MAKE ME STROOOONG!"
We finally got this totally right with Goldlewis in Strive, who I think is the first fat character in a video game I've seen that has no references to his weight or food, just that he's strong
He does have a thing for hamburgers, but it's more a "haha American" joke than a "haha fat guy" joke. But yeah, Goldlewis is the best. Dude's built like actual strong people instead of a bodybuilder.
Too bad Strive sucks.
@@FA-nd9uk Quiet, the adults are talking.
Its also bc his brother is the burger sheriff @Twisted_Logic
he has exactly two, in one scene at or near the end of the 4 hour story mode. another character chastizes him for eating too much fast food. And one victory line where he gets a pizza prank call and says "it's meal time anyway" (which I think fits his american cowboy deal more than the fat character thing) that is literally it, and I love it
it's not a defining character trait, just a believable mild habit that the character has. All of his fight dialogue is focused on him enthusiasm for UMA's (which I understand as effectively cryptids) or his role as the secretary of defense. He's allowed to have a character, and it's a great one
I am surprised no one has mentioned Wario. Wario is a slob, but him being fat does not define his charecter. He has demonstrated business savy and electronic skills.. Like Bob, Wario works out to maintain his big and muscular frame. This leads him to believe he is the most handsome and charismatic guy around.
And he funds a lot of people wanting to try new things in the world of tech and entertainment without a second thought
Agreed, unless it's the Smash one who is very much a Rufus.
@@majorghoul9017 Don't forget that he tries to run away with the profits made off of the backs of these entrepreneurial folks, again without a second thought
Wario is extremely selfish though. Pretty much everything he does it for money. Yes he exercises, works out, and despite being kinda porky is pretty agile and can duke it with the rest of them, and he's also pretty crafty and smart. But he also has little heroic traits to differentiate too far from usual "fat" characters. Plus some games do show up being a bit unsightly from time-to-time, not just in Smash.
Tbf Wario is meant to be a piece of shit, but unlike Rufus, manages to pull off his joke whilst being funny and even sometimes badass
Bo Rai Cho is an interesting case because he is both. In the story he is portrayed as the best martial arts instructor in all the realms, he tought Liu Kang the moves that allowed him to defeat Shang Tsung, trained Li Mei, and led the Edenian army to victory against a much bigger force. I was exited to see him return because, silly me, I expected them to drop the vomit and disgusting side of him, just as they did with many of the bad stuff of MK's 3D era, but no, instead they decided to double down on it. It's such a shame.
Finally somebody giving my boy Bob the recognition he deserves. Definitely the most underrated character to come out of T6
he was op in T6
Underrated? Man he was the most op and most used in that game ☠️
@@aileenamador3747 underrated mean good i think
@@techdream8587 dude that's the think he was past good he was god tier the joke was made that Bob has the best hellsweep
In Rufus' defense, he apparently went on a pilgrimage to various temples to actually learn what's fact & what's fiction. Likewise, he allegedly trained by, among other things, carrying a pair of motorbikes on his back while jogging. It's not all just "imitate while lazing on a couch," from what I heard.
One thing you ignored about Rufus is that his skill is 100% legit. He didn't just watch Kung Fu movies he actually took Kung Fu classes and studied under various masters in China. Even Fei Long acknowledges Rufus is a legit Kung Fu Master.
I guess you can say that about him but he just doesn't portrait that at all, he's rude and loud and it shown eating or screaming most of the time
Of course it's acknowleged.
But should *we* acknowledge it?
His ego certainly doesn't deserve our respect.
@@Berd-Wasted. Dude has legit skills that allow him to cross fists with peoeple likee Ken, Ryu and the members of Shadaloo, his ego isn't unwarranted.
Because of this video, I have a newfound respect and admiration for Bob.
Same here
I actually got bored with 7 and now I’m picking up Bob tomorrow to see if I can breathe new life into this old ass game.
@@Jetanium did you?
@@RigbyIsTheMan I got to red ranks with Bob.
Same, got to *Overlord(@@Jetanium
As a fat person myself, I hate the stigma. I've always been fast, strong, and has always been athletic (even though I don't look it). I love sports, running in sand, and lifting weights. I have a love hate relationship with working out (except weight training or yoga) and have a bad relationship with food (my on and off eating disorders). I'm good at all I do, better than so many of the people I'm around. It just sucks that people only see me as fat even with all my hard earned muscle.
How can you be athletic and love sports if you are fat? If you exercise and live a healthy lifestyle like you claim you wouldn’t be fat, you’d be a healthy weight.
@@bab3419 you missed the point ☠️☠️☠️
@@bab3419 yeah because you only think fat people are fat because they're lazy ☠️☠️☠️
@@bab3419 This is patently untrue and ignores so many things like genetic conditions or a huge variety of other factors. I was very active as a child but got fat anyways because I have a genetic condition that created fatty tissue. Different types of exercise also target different things, and not every fat person is inherently unhealthy. That is false. You're looking at things too narrow mindedly without really considering if you actually know what you're talking about, as well as putting down someone who by all accounts does not need your opinion.
I actually love Rufus' design. The way he wears that long braid makes him look like a cartoon bomb. That "short fuse" both underlines his unpredictability, (which is his most prominent gameplay strength) and his tendency to "go off" at a moment's notice (his most prominent character trait). Along with the ill-fitting Bruce Lee jumpsuit you mentioned, his look says everything there is to say about him in a manner that's both original and subtle. Just because a character's an asshole doesn't mean they're a bad character.
Joe Curry-Stodder ^
I think his point that is that while it is a well designed character, it does nothing to break a stereotype that's very harmful, and tbh, well designed characters that help prop up stereotypes are more harmful than badly designed ones, so him having that aesthetic actually causes more issues than not.
But there is people that is fat and have a chip on their shoulder because of it. Not every character should defy stereotypes, some can play with them and give them depth and a reason. There is truth behind some stereotypes, I think a complex character can be based off of one if it goes beyond the basic traits and first impression.
I don't exactly get what stereotype Rufus portrays, even after watching the video. Like... is it that he's a jerk? Is that a fat person stereotype? If you actually listen to and read his dialogue he's incredibly satisfied with his body, he has an attractive(although ditzy) girlfriend, and he believes he should be the best and actually put effort into becoming the best, even if it was the incredibly wrong way of doing it. If the stereotype is that he's ugly, again HE thinks he looks amazing. I thought he looked ugly too at first, but he grew on me. None of his moves or personality traits are about his looks at all, he just... looks that way, and he's proud of how he looks. He doesn't do anything like eat on the battlefield. In fact you never see him eating at all except for in his SSFIV artwork
Furthermore, nobody in the cast laughed at him, as far as I'm aware. Some people were against his personality, but nobody shamed him for his weight or anything. I think the closest was Fei Long's win quote where he just said "You're huge, man! Huge!" Honestly, Rufus would take it as a compliment towards his popularity anyway....
I can't really think of another vain, arrogant, but competent and light on his feet fat guy. Honestly they could just button up one of his buttons on his jumpsuit so he was less... revealing... and there wouldn't be any issues with him. Not every character has to be beautiful to be good.
... oh yeah, his girlfriend was named Candy. So, he's a fat guy who loves Candy... okay Capcom.
As a big dude I personally like Rufus a little bit more. Going with Joe's comment I want to add that I personally I like that he's a jerk, I like that he's a slob, I like that he makes crappy jokes. I don't associate all fat people like this. I associate it with Rufus. Bob is cool and all but he is honeslty he is a pretty bland person. Breaking stereotypes is cool and all but what use is that when you have the personality of a slice of white bread. I mean what other character is going to spin around hit you in the face and then proudly say "I'm sexy." Don't get me wrong I like the video, but this is a different view that should be voiced as well. Gameplay wise both of these characters are great. Personality wise, Rufus is more memorable than Bob.
8:40 "Approximately 2% of my body weight is actually fat. Allow me to show you what 350 pounds of muscle is capable of."
Kingpin can fuck anyone up
I love that line
Kingpin, from Spider-Man, right?
Kingpin is this. And doesn't look any fatter than some of the worlds to heavy weight lifters.
Kingpin deserves his title
but what makes Rufus great is that he doesnt give a damn and went his own way. Rufus is not trying to defy the stereotype, he is purposely diving straight in, and making it glorious.
Think of the life rufus has, he goes wherever he pleases, gets to fight to his heart's content, actually went to china to complement his observations and has a hot girlfriend who adores him. Isnt that enough compensation for being a "weird" fat guy?
Honestly I hope he comes back and has a sort of "redemption arc", kind of like Dan Habaki, who started out as a completely pathetic person personality wise to becoming unironically one of the best characters in the canon
That Capcom manager's reply is literally the mindset of the bad guys of the X-Men lmao, that all that matters about them is their powers and nothing else
This video is fairly well produced, but I didn't particularly love the format or arguments. You spent very little of the video actually discussing the design of fat characters like the title implies. Instead, you talk almost entirely about two characters who _don't_ properly fit the archetype this video is supposedly about, and even then, most of what you have to say there is morality based rather than game design discussion.
Eh, when a character type is saturated with so much boring sameyness, it kinda makes the outliers the only ones worth talking about. I do agree that going into more of the actual physical designs would've been nice. But I would add that to the video, rather than having it replace anything. The morality thing is a thing, but it does bleed into design too, since audience association with certain design elements has an effect. Why IS Rufus's snail trail disgusting? Objectively it's just an off-yellow triangle, not even convincingly hairlike. But the association with him almost being like hanging his cock out of the undone zipper is what gives it that effect - it suggests something there's a morality connection to. So in the same way with the excessive and relentless stereotyping, while it's not the same thing, it's related. Also it's quite interesting to have a comparison where one subversion attempt succeeds dramatically while another subversion attempt fails dramatically. So I can understand why that was the focus. If you were to do a video on fat character design in fighting games, would you not focus on that comparison? Maybe not to as high a percentage as this video, but I feel it unrealistic to think you wouldn't. It's a bit of an intrigue gimme, in a sea of otherwise mostly utter drab.
Having said that, there are things to talk about in the more stereotypical examples though. As someone very obese myself (and athletic too), while I don't love his slovenly eating, I do love Birdie's walk cycles. That severe back pain posture is too real. In this way I think he even has a leg-up over the generally-excellent Bob - sure you can be graceful and speedy whilst fat but you do FEEL it and it does still show in how you move around. Before the lockdown I would throw myself around a wrestling ring doing rolls and dropkicks and such... but they're necessarily modified. They can't be the same rolls or jumps a thinner person does. Simple body dimensions don't allow it.
I think I would design a fat fighting game character with all that in mind. Then again, I think I would design a lot more of a grounded fighting game in general than most, as that's just simply my personal preference, and as a bonus it's also not something that's really done yet (outside of the hard moveset limits and actual people in MMA) so it'd fill a nice niche. Something brutal and fantastical, but in a more connected way to the real world. A midpoint. For a fat character, my thought is... there's a reason they're fat. There's a reason they're a fighter. Whatever those reasons are have to coexist, and to use maybe an unfortunate choice of words, one can't be allowed to eat the other. With Rufus, I feel like that's what fell down a hole - his reasons why he's fat completely devoured his reason why he's a fighter, and his fighting skill is left more out-of-nowhere magical-seeming than a bloody fireball. With Bob, they kept that balanced.
Sorry for rambling on, obviously only read all of that if you feel like doing so.
I love your videos
@@Torthrodhel Interesting, thank you for sharing your experiences.
I love Bob! He’s an amazing character. The type i would love to be friends with in real life.
I also wish there was more fat female characters who are not are just there to be a scarecrow for male characters (like “ewwww look it’s fat woman so ugly run awaaaay”). And not just “thin waist + enormous hips” combo.
Someone fat and confident and likeable. We need more of that!
Yessss 100% agree with that
Big ups for Dulia-Chai from FFXIV: Shadowbringers. The circumstances surrounding her size aren't terribly dignified, representing a portrayal of decadent high society existing in immediate proximity to poverty and starvation, but it has little bearing on her actual personality, being a genuinely loving and honest character amid a sea of ignorant and unempathetic aristocrats. Ask anyone who's played through if they would die for her and the answer will universally be yes.
Entirely agreed
not a fighting game, but wild guns reloaded actually has a pretty cool fat woman character with lightning gauntlets and weird stun shit, and she genuinely might be the most fun character in the game and has a cool design.
@@xanious3759 oooo!! Thanks!! She looks cool!!
All the reasons you list why Rufus “doesn’t work” is exactly the reason why I liked him back in SFIV. I think he’s fun and goofy, and I like his character design.
I think Capcom could’ve developed his character in later games too, but they sadly kept him as a one note joke character.
They could’ve given him a character arc similar to Po from Kung Fu Panda, where he’s brash, clumsy, and dumb in the beggining, but overtime he becomes humbled, and maybe learns some real kung fu. I think that would’ve helped in making him a more likeable character to other people like you.
Rufus works because what he does matches his personality. Sometimes a person is a self-absorbed hothead that happens to eat too much. He cares more about trying to be cool, but he does not understand that cool is generally a side-effect of being highly successful.
He didnt even mention that rufus has some nice traits like his relationship between him and his girlfriend which imo is kinda cute.
MrMickio1 that’s not very important because it’s not a big part of his character overall
I hope we see more fat characters whose entire personality isn't just slob behavior. Being fat doesn't make you stupid, lazy, or weak.
Idk I just like to eat a lot I legit like running and moving. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ (I don't consider my self fat but by other people's standards I suppose I am)
I’ve always loved Bob, he immediately stood out as a fat character, even without knowing his full backstory it seemed he knew his differences to the other fighters and was all for it. Hands down my favorite fat guy next to Peter Griffin.
You've convinced me Bob is the best fat character
There is now a line of Tekken players outside your door waiting to beat the shit out of you for saying that. Most Tekken players hate Bob for how overpowered he was in 6.
He was great but fair in Tag2 and completely fair and well balanced in T7, we forgave him. Cheap or not, he still has some of the best animations in the Tekken universe!
what about heavy from TF2 ?
Antigoni Tsarbopoulou TF2 is not a fighting game scrub.
He is kind of weak and rare to see in Tekken 7
In all honesty I think you accidentally made a case about how Rufus is the best fat character comic relief trope instead of being a trainwreck of a design. Like, think about it:
Bo Rai Cho: Supposedly wicked powerful. Teacher of Liu Kang and Kung Lao. Holds a regular fighting stance. Farts and pukes in action...
Earthquake: Supposed to be a ninja, but it's the most easily recognizable character in the ENTIRE DAMN CAST. Extremely arrogant and unironically believes to be a great ninja. Has butt slams...
Raiden: Stereotypical henchmen. Since he's fat he has a poison breath.
Birdie: Used to be strong, turned to fat, changed focus to food/based abilities.
Rufus though, he doesn't have any pig-ish move. He's delusional, but most comic relief characters are regardeless of body type. His stance already conveys amauterism and his every animation reinforces the idea. He's not fat to make fun of fat people or to reinforce any stereotype, he's fat to further emphasize that he's a poser. Rufus might be an annoying character, but he's probably one of the most creative uses of a fat character design.
4 years later, Guilty Gear has joined in and given us another cool fat character not defined by his weight in Goldlewis Dickinson.
I think what makes Gold Dick better than these two is that sure, he's another fat American character who is kinda associated with food (but not really) but unlike Bob and Rufus he isn't defined by the "fat/fast" joke. Sometimes that design can feel like a workaround for not actually dealing with the design challenges of making a heavyweight character. Goldlewis has impeded mobility but makes up for it with his oppressive pressure and guard crush with his coffin, which is the main centerpiece for his character. He also uses a drone and heavy weaponry, fitting with his job title.
I also think designing an American character around a cryptid/area 51 is very clever due to how prevalent it is in US culture, as well as being really funny
As *Sakamoto* said: "There are even heroes even among the overwight".
Dont you mean THICC characters 😩😩😩💦
Flash thicc 😊
Flash what are you doing here
Extra thICC
Your really dumb
Kingpin: I'll have you know that my body is less then 2% body fat.
I think Bob was made to be a cool character, but Rufus is meant just to be a Goofy one that makes us laugh and look down on him, but the fact that he can back up all the bragging he does, unlike Dan, just make him a lot more interesting because of the shock value. He is a unconventional fighter and I love those types of characters. Not everyone needs to look "cool", beign unique is so much more important for me. I hope we see more of Rufus somewhere in the future (and hopefully throw away some of the shotos).
Exactly.
Rufus definitely didn't work for everyone, but I agree that there was definitely something there that would be worth salvaging and maybe refining for future use. The concept of a self trained fighter certainly isn't a bad one, I'd say a lot of fighting game fans, especially ones that practice the arts, were inspired by films or games and probably tried to emulate what they saw. Taking that to the extreme seems like a fine idea to me.
Oof.
5 years later and not a single sign of him as D.L.C
I mean Rufus is meant as a contrast to Ken, and is more an stereotypical American character:
- Obnoxious
- Dim-witted
- Boorish
- Arrogant
- Obese
Yet while you mention the win quotes and show cutscenes, those reveal that:
- He's rich
- His girlfriend is hot
- He lives a good life in general
- The other characters compliment his fighting style
So he seems to be made to contrast with the other more positive American characters like Ken (Who is not coincidentally his rival) and Guile. Also the Dark Souls example, Siegmward, Siegmeyer, and Smough are not fat, they just wear thick armor.
I don't really feel that Rufus is a bad character. I feel that Bob is supposed to be cool and respectable while Rufus isn't. I think you assume that Rufus is supposed to be serious.
Archbishop Mactasty yup
Well the problem isn't Rufus being a bad character it's the fact that he's the epitomy of a stereotypical fat character so he uses him as an example
Hold Guard true
I don't think *anyone* thinks Rufus is serious
Hold Guard Rufus is not meant to be a stereotypical FAT character, his obesity is incidental. He’s a stereotypical AMERICAN: Blonde, fat, oversexualized, reckless, rude, informed by movies, bombastic, red-faced, volatile and ignorant. He’s a caricature of how most other populations view Americans.
I think the primary difference between these two is that, for the Tekken universe, Bob is a straight archetype with a twist and Rufus is a joke character. And I'm pretty sure the oldest design stereotype in the fighting game book is the Japanese karate guy whose entire life is about finding a strong opponent to improve his karate.
Why not both? They are fat with context. But not defined by how they look. Roadhog is dope, quiet, cool and aggressive with a lil hidden soft side in the odd taunt. Varied charecteristics, a flawed protagonist if you will, just like how junk rat is rude and irritating but confident, forgiving and not afraid to make fun of himself. I like this I think visuals should compliment charecter and not the other way around (this is challenging for games what with hit boxes so you kind of have to do it backwards)
So, create hitboxes, then make a character design around the hitboxes, and then add character (i.e. Personality).
@@flamaniax5728 When I'm designing characters for modding it's usually a back and forth process. I start with some base mechanical idea, let that inform the character design, let that inform specific attacks, feed that back to further refining the character, etc.
Bob's design and back story made me excitedly want to play him, and he quickly became one of my most favored characters in Tekken even though he was so new.
Roadhog is perfect blend of stereotypes about fat characters, even having a pig on his belly and doing the whole biker thing to boot.. he is aggressive and depraved (criminal)..
but he’s silent and holds an air of respectability, denotes traits of understanding and compassion as well as the deepest patience for junkrat buffoonery lol .. he’s shown to be way more clever then his appearance at first conveys.. its a nuance that makes him feel more real even with the fantastical elements he embodies and that trait oozes out of the entire cast and world.. overwatch has incredible character and world building.. a masterclass of simple yet deep game design
Hell, he made a drug that's able to get rid of radiation poisoning just by inhaling the stuff. He's a freaking genius who fought in a war, and he's earned his badassery.
Plus, you can see both his professionalism and his own personal flair when he takes down foes.
I'd honestly love it if Roadhog got into a fighting game as a guest character (especially if he were to go up against Bob or another large character).
I think roadhog is badass,he isnt just fatalny,he is really strong,besides,he is fat beacause of radiation
I somehow neglected to include footage of Roadhog in this video, even though I had some thoughts about him in regard to this topic. Overall I think Roadhog is a cool character compared to other fat characters; he's still big and slow, but his design cleverly conveys that he's the only tank character in the game that doesn't have armor or shields, hence having his big belly exposed all the time. More than that, there's a more prevalent theming to his design and function that enforces that he's not just big, he's scary. The heavy breathing under the gas mask, his extremely menacing scrap shotgun, and just the fact that his game function is to hook players means that just looking at Hog immediately informs a player that they should keep away from him. And yes he could have easily been a hulked out muscle man instead, but as you said his physical condition is reflective of his life circumstances; he's fat because he is in constant need of an extremely toxic gas that sustains him, a condition that reflects his origins in the harsh, nuclear Mad Max wasteland of Overwatch's future Australia. Beyond that, Blizzard has even gone out of their way to express a sort of 'cuteness' about Roadhog; not only are round, bulbous shapes naturally appealing and friendly-looking, but he has a few poses like his Tuckered Out sitting pose or his victory pose where he's huddling onto a bundle of stolen firecrackers adds charm to an otherwise monstrous character. -A.B.I.
SugarPunch Design Works wow honor for you for writing replay this long
SugarPunch Design Works
The cuteness comment is even more relevant with one of his more recent emotes in with he pull and squishes a Pachimari plushy.
roadhog is more pudge than heavy
Overwatch was inspired by TF2 the way a Grilled Cheese is inspired by Cheese. You take something good and make it great.
One of my favorite fat characters and one of my favorite characters in the Witcher is Sigismund Dijkstra. People usually think he's a big lumber dumb oaf but he's actually one of the smartest guys around, and witty to boot. Using his appearance in his character still without referencing food every twenty seconds.
So po from kung fu panda?
Shrek?
RAZZA I like Po a lot. He's like Rufus (Kung-Fu fan who imitated his idols before receiving proper training) but less intentionally obnoxius and more comical
It feels good to see Bob in the spotlight every now and then. I remember picking him up and learning his moveset in arcades and on handhelds all those years ago, and eventually thanks to him I learned about Sammo Hung.
"hey let make a fat character that it's actually graceful and fast"
"So you mean hits hard and hits fast?"
"Yes"
"Wonderful design!"
More info in Bob made Tekken 6 a joke
"and let's give him literally everything a Tekken character could ever want"
@@lancergt1000 and gimp the rest cause why not
Thanks to you @SugarPunch, Bob Richards is one of my mains in Tekken now.😎👊🏾🔥
Saw a clip about a parkour runner getting extremely sick and gained weight in the process. After recovery, he went back into parkour and doing flips while having a big beer belly. Incredible movements and speed.
Thing is, rufus is a joke, but unlike dan hibiki, he is fun to play as! I actually took the time to master him and ended up being really good at using him.
Character is a jerk/shows unfavorable traits=/=A trash fire that should have never been made.
Missing the point much?
Lily Leviton What point? The whole video is just talking about their backstory, personality, and fighting style. He never makes any point why Rufus fails at challenging the far stereotype or bob wins.
Also to play Devils advocate, Rufus is a better fat character than Bob. Bob relies on being fat to make his character engaging while It never mattered if Rufus was fat, he still would be a bombastic buffoon who watched Naruto for his fighting style.
That was the entire video... Fat people are often seen as messy, lazy, incompetent jerks. Rufus is the perfect incarnation of this stereotype while Bob is the opposite.
A good point, but not the topic at hand.
Lily Leviton Look at the intro to the video, a fat stereotype is a slow powerhouse who's character revolves around food. Rufus doesn't fit this criteria, his character isn't guy eats food and uses his weight to win, he watched a lot of kung-fu movies and sparked a drive to fight inside of him. Him being fat is supplementary, its only their to show that he would train by watching kung-fu movies so much he gained weight. He talks about Rufus' attire as if it wasn't perfectly fitting for him as a character, someone who idealizes kung-fu movies. The only reason why Sugar punch says Rufus is a bad fat stereotype is because Rufus' character doesn't idolize being fat, he has character flaws and rotten quirks. He completely ignores Rufus being part of a biker gang, something pretty notorious for housing bad characters. It feels like he is just butthurt that a fat character is portray in a negative light, even if it unjust.
That's not a fat stereotype. That's just the way fat characters are used in video games.
Rufus isn't just a rotten character. He has all the harmful stereotypes that are associated with fat people.
Bobs motto is 'Speed and Weight!' For a reason. Also when people tried to say they wanted to play the skinny bob one of tekkens designers said 'why? Fat bob is cooler!'
However i just cant figure out how the flying hell Rufus can confuse Ryu Dan Posion and Cammey for Ken.
Actually, rufus is the only gat stereotype function character I like, as he's honestly hilarious.
Sure he has a bit of gross traits, bit they aren't his focus most the time.
More so his focus is that he's great at fighting, able to perfect moves by merely watching them, but his moves chosen to copy are usually meant for style rather than practicality, but despite this he puts them to use, using his body as a means to use moves that otherwise would not be as effective, like is spin move more than likely uses his gut as a means to increase the momentum. And in spire of what seems like laziness, he clearly works put more than you'd think, as he pushed a motorcycle with his girlfriend it many MANY miles through the desert and came put walking fine, only needing a brief drench of water when he finally made it to the gas station. He just doesn't show his muscle like the freak of nature Honda does... abs don't work like that...
He's also lost in his own little world, as anyone who is blonde or wears a karate gi he mistakes for his rival, and is stuck thinking he's the protagonist of his own movie world, as he thinks DeeJay wants to be his apprentice. This is hilarious as he seems to go on a rant about how great he is or even just how his day went or how ninjas look.
His girlfriend also committed dine and dash, but because he learned from movies that a woman in distress must be innocent and in need of protecting, he beats up the wrong people, and Candy becomes his girl, because he looked cool doing it, and as a result, she constantly feeds into his delusions of the world.
All of this aligns into a bizarrely hilarious concoction that other fat archetypes only WISH they could be, and makes the world of streetfighter a more interesting place...
Now if only they'd give him a better outfit...
Not like he's gonna read a comment on a 4 year old video...
@@superkid2815 He probably won't, but the dude's still right. Rufus isn't really the bad fat character stereotype that Sugarpunch desperately wants them to be.
Another aspect od his moves that I feel works is that he was trained by legit kung fu masters, so they likely helped him to use a form of Kung Fu that plays to his major strength, that being momentum. You see a lot of his moves place an emphasis on movement.
@@hysterical5408I don't like Rufus having a weird delusion honestly.
Hard to respect when a trait like thay pops up.
We need more chubby gals as well as guys, just saying. We can't just have plus-sized dudes, we need plus-sized girls as well.
First video of yours I've watched, and the arguments are pretty poorly made, it kind of implies that any fat character who isn't perfect is "fuelling the stereotype", I'll watch more because the video quality is really good, but I have to dislike this one.
The Eternal Vanguard also it could be fat people are like that cause they make poor decisions.
Hopefully you've watched more vids on the channel. This one is not up to the standard of other stuff A.B.I. puts out.
I think he's saying that the overwhelming majority of the portrayal of overweight people is negative, akin to maybe how some women feel about their common over-sexualization in games. On top of this, Rufus is not really a great character, he's just like a 'Dan' character. No real person is just a walking punchline. Think of like Chris Farley in Beverly Hills Ninja, but as a deadly martial artist somehow.
MKG176 the reason being overweight is usually portrayed as negative is because being overweight isn’t exactly a good thing and is not a lifestyle that should be shown in a positive light.
@MegA I want you to go look up an old pro boxer nick-named "Butterbean." Then, look up an ex-Yokozuna, Hakuho Futahaguro. Finally, look up an ex-strongman named Zydrunas Savickas.
The point is, you look at any of these guys and you are the type of person to call them "overweight" or "undesirable," but once you actually look up their accomplishments tell me why they needed to be thin exactly?
The Kingpin from marvel is actually like 85% muscle.
He is a big boy
I think there is an unnoticed difference between bad personality and bad chararcter design.
Why metanarrative of this video is: "it is ok to be fat if you have good personality or you just cool and stuff"?
Also both of this characters do not represent "fat character architype" or function or whatever. They're both acrobatic and fast. I know, there are some baloon like characters in fighting games but they more a mockery of fat people. So their more like "fat but weightless stereotype" which is not exactly just "fat stereotype".
Well I'm rambling.
Anyway. Not a best video on the channel.
also van
It’s because the creator feels personally attacked every time he sees Rufus lmaoooo
Agree with this, not every fat character should do justice to fat people like they're perfect. Rufus might be an idiot, but there ARE idiots in the world. And there are fat idiots too. The fact that there is a level of character development for him makes him more than just a stereotype for me.
Yeah, it's a well edited video visually, but the point presented in the narration, is very lacking of self awareness. The point is that Rufus is worse because he's weird and dumb, like any realistic person? Just fodder for the "analytical video" phase of youtube that's thankfully dying out
Perhaps it is not so much that Rufus alone is idiotic and fat, but because as far as fat characters go who don't get associated with either food/grossness/laziness/something similar, there aren't many.
Let's face it. Everyone has problems, but being fat is just a problem that people can see the easiest, compared to say an addiction to smoking or a mental disorder. Because people can see it with ease, they can call it out easier and ignore any good attributes a larger set person would have. You don't even need to have an addiction to food to get fat. Our modern lifestyles and such can easily get someone on the heavier end if they aren't careful enough, or their parents made poor lifestyle choices for them as a kid, and so on.
Having fat and stupid characters like Rufus won't be such a problem in the future by comparison if say, we get more larger set characters who's existence isn't just revolved around them being fat and having a bunch of negative traits. We just need more of a balance, is all.
Just because it's realistic doesn't make it enjoyable. Fat people should be positively represented as wanting to prove themselves
So basically, Bob is the exact _wrong_ way to make a fat character, because his form clashes entirely with his function. It would be like if Cammy were a ponderously sluggish grappler type.
Hanako from KOF is a sluggish grappler even if she's a petite school girl.
Well, there's Hinako from KOF. She's short, petite, but she's a sumo wrestler, and sluggish, even though she's smol
That is why Hinako hasn't been in very few games. Shes just a sumo wrestler but isnt imposing in any way.
@Tim Ogul I present you Shermie from KoF
Repeat with me: IT'S A VIDEOGAME, some characters throw fireballs from his hands, so don't be stupid about realism when you're talking about fighting games or fiction in general.
I actually relate to Bob a lot. I struggled with heavier people than me even when I have better technique and speed, I didn't use it, I was stubborn and wanted to stand my ground but got put in my place really easily. Thank god I know how to listen to advice nowadays
Too bad this video was made before Goldlewis Dickinson was made, he's probably the best fat character in a fighting game since he's not seen as a joke character.
he is FAR from a joke too! he is top tier
@@velvetdraws3452 I meant he isn't just a comic relief character like many other fat dudes such as Rufus or Ganryu
In terms of their visual designs, I agree 100% with everything brought out in this video.
BUT, I respectfully disagree with the thesis that Bob > Rufus, on a narrative level.
According to you, Bob is fat because, when he was a slim fighter, larger ones would best him, so his solution wasn't to bulk up muscle, but to... become obese? At least Rufus' story of being a biker who likes martial arts movies who then one day decides to train and become a martial artist is, in that context alone, inspirational.
Speaking as a fat person myself, I am telling you, definitively, that none of us would have made the conscious choice to be obese for ANY reason. So Bob, as a concept, offends me.
"I got fat to be a better fighter"
What?
No.
Bob actually didn't do that at first, he tried bulking up, but he lost his flexibility. And he became slower.
He began stress eating because he couldn't find a solution. Wen he saw he was getting fat, he quickly trained to loose weight, but in doing so he found he had better balance and he had mass behind his strikes now.
I myself am quite fat. I'm 140kgs
Even with my size I can do a full split and I can now do Splits on 2 chairs. I owe that to Aikido excercises.
Bob is an exaggeration yes. But wats important her is that bob became who he is through his own efforts. Hes not gonna encourage anyone to be like him because he's focused on himself.
I always thought he was cool because he's the best version of himself. And that's inspiring.
Rufus thinks hes at the pinical and he deserves respect because he says so.
Which is actually rather damaging for him and others around him.
It's not his fat that makes Rufus bad.
Hes bad because hes a entitled selfish idiot.
And I like both characters.
But bob is better.
walter conley how does it could that offend you? Makes zero sense that you should be offended by someone who chooses to become obese not caring for what people have to say about his body. Unlike others that get fat, don’t do anything about it but get mad when someone brings it up (Rufus)
Gold Lewis snaps that stereotype in half and is just flat out cool as fuck.
Actually, is E-Honda even fat? Judging by the artwork you've shown he's got pretty large fat-abs...
I think that's actually physically impossible? Fat grows over muscle, so it's impossible that there would be any abs shaping on *top* of the fat. -A.B.I.
...To be honest I'm not sure what they're going for there. Like, this thing looks so much like abs body fat...? Since it can't be muscle and it has to be fat, why on earth does it look the way it does? o_O
There is such a thing as fat that develops beneath the muscle, at least in the abdomen. It's common from certain kinds of diet, among other factors, and can (or so I've heard) actually be more of a health risk than fat that develops over the muscles of the abdomen. I'm not sure you can ever really have a significant enough impact on the distribution of fat above and below the muscle to have visible abs over a bulging gut, though. All examples I've seen of a rounded, yet ripped, abdomen have been due to an excess of muscle mass focused on the abdomen.
Actually I never assumed E. Honda was obese, I assumed he was built like an ultimate strong man. Meaning that he emphasized function over appearance. You know since only bodybuilders are generally the only ones concerned about body fat percentages since it can cause point deductions in competitions.
Actually on top of that may I add that sumo wrestlers in general ARE the anti-thesis of the stereotypical "lazy fat person?" After watching sumo wrestling matches I have learned that in order to win a match you have to be pretty darn smart, strong, and super flexible! Yeah, sure, they are hefty guys, the added weight helps in pushing people around. But actually HANDLE people that big? Yeah, you got to pretty strong yourself.
character with no flaws: well designed character
character with flaws: poorly designed character.
sorry dude but thats not how this works...also doing the opposite of whatever stereotype there is about your character is a much bigger stereotype than the fat lazy character.
its not a "much bigger stereotype" lol thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard someone say
I personally hate Bob and most of the characters that came from Tekken 6 but you’re absolutely right about this topic. Tekken did something unique with the fat character trope while Rufus just made it worse.
This video made me want to play Bob. I actively avoided him when I first booted up Tekken 7 because I thought he was going to be a Rufus sort of character. Really interested in him now that I know he isn't.
he's fun to play
Rufus is one of the most polished "newer" SF characters to date. He is a silly character, but it isn't because of his weight, it is because of his personality. Yeah, visually he is a fat guy in spandex, but he is more than that. He is loud, obnoxious, and overlooks details. He is determined to be the best fighter, even creating a rivalry with Ken, and often mistaking others for him. He is Zangief's tag team partner, both believing they are perfect models for fighting. He is the king of bikers in America. He has an attractive girlfriend who loves him. He also has funny/interesting relationships with many other characters, such as believing Dhalsim is an alien or how Dee Jay and him should team up to make great music.
A lot of other SF characters, especially the joke characters, are just there to be there. Sure his motive to be a great fighter isn't anything unique to the franchise, but there are characters like Honda or El Fuerte, who are just one dimensional with only one thing to talk about all the time. Rufus has input on nearly everyone in SF, all which are unique for the character he is talking to, instead of asking literally everyone what they like to eat, the way Fuerte does.
You know who Bob is? A good fighter who is there to tell the world he is a fat guy. One dimensional. Boring. Rufus doesn't need to tell the world how fat he is, Rufus is there to show everyone how he is the best fighter. His personality and weight have nothing to do with each other, but the combination makes him that more of an interesting character for the SF franchise. Even on the rare occasion when Rufus' weight is brought up, it is for comedic purposes and isn't the only focus. His special moves even have names not related to weight, such as Snake Strike and Galactic Tornado.
Fat characters don't need to only talk about how fat they are.
Rufus>Bob always.
Also you went to great length showcasing Bob's movements, but only gave Rufus a single clip showing his moves when talking about it. Just saying. If we're talking moves, the two of them are both fast fat guys. I don't know how one is considered worse than the other in this situation. Bob had personal trainers and money to back up his moves, Rufus just watched TV, who is the real better fighter?
Bob was given literally everything to be able to do what he does.
And underneath the fat, it's Rufus has quite a bit of muscle as shown by how he trained (by running whilst hauling a motorbike over each shoulder, and considering their size I'd say he's carrying about 300-400 kilos there depending on the CC of the ending).
Rufus has the joke, yeah, but he's not JUST a joke, and that's what makes him a good character. He's a good fighter, with a good relationship outside of the ring and is just proud to be who he is. Sure, that pride sometimes extends into arrogance, but that often happens
I actually like E. Honda...and could care less about Bob, and hate Rufus.
Honda is a fun loving, yet honorable character.
Plus, he actually plays like a large character- and he's never presented as "fat' like Rufus or SFV Birdie, but rather just big- and plays as such.
He has multiple moves that involve jumping ass-first in his opponent.
Honestly I just watch this video occasionally just for that Bob montage, It's really well done!
I'm glad you showed the Kingpin at the end doesn't matter what version of him Ive seen but Ive learned you don't fuck with Kingpin
A lot of people think that being muscular and fat are polar opposties, when that isn't always the case. Besides Sumos, a lot of weightlifters have a lot of weight to go with their muscles. Maui from Moana is a really good example of what this body type is, and in a good amount of cases it's actualy nore realistic. I'd love to see more good fat charatcers in not just fighting games, but in media as a whole. What if we went further and had a fat female charatcer? There's a lot of unexplored potential here
Hey, you mentioned you’re a GG fan, so I’d like your opinion on Goldlewis, seeing that he’s also a fat character. He does fall under the category of being a fat guy who’s a leader, but I personally love how strong willed the dude is, even willing to put himself on the front lines for his country. Sure, he can be a bit oblivious at times, but overall, I think he’s a well designed character, in terms of gameplay and personality.
i feel like this video is pretty skin-deep in terms of exploring the design philosophy of fat characters.
a big pointer here is that both of these characters were created by japanese designers.
there is a long-standing cultural notion of fatness meaning great strength in their history; starting with sumo wrestlers, who are looked up to a great deal. characters in asian cinema continued this trend, with actors such as sammo hung, who displayed great stuntmanship besides his physicality and was astonishingly fit for his body type.
a wave of imposing fat characters came to japan with the exploding popularity of pro wrestling, and perhaps the most famous and notorious villain of the genre in asia, abdullah the butcher. if you ever see a fat guy in overalls, baggy pants and pointy shoes in japanese media, its a reference to him (for example, mr. heart of hokuto no ken is pretty much abdullah with different proportions). wrestlers like big van vader continued the trend. sumo wrestlers also become tangled in this world in a strange mix, with examples such as the former yokozuna akebono taro starting a career in puroresu after retiring from sumo. there have been many popular fat celebrities in the public's eye, as there are today. the japanese concept of the "Real" also works as such that eating great amounts of food is seen as manly feat. this is relevant in terms of fat female characters/people sometimes being perceived as less feminine, along with the "fat=strength" notion.
it is debatable if the huge surge of western influence in japan after ww2 had an effect on the perception of fat stereotypes in japanese culture, but americans certainly see a larger share of overweight people, and japan loves creating their stereotypes. for example, a generic american cop in japanese media seems to often be a pig-neck fatso chowing down on donuts.
for japanese people, being overweight is REALLY a deviation from the norm; an estimated 3-6% of japanese people are overweight (by the standards of a modern western bmi chart), compared to the 30-35% of american people.
there is, of course, negative association with fatness in japan, as there is in most cultures. the famous saying over there goes "the nail that sticks out will be hammered down"; the honor culture creates an environment where most people feel you are responsible for your own actions and decisions, which includes being overweight or not losing weight. comments about being obese, in terms of positivity, negativity or astonishment come up often with relevant persons. fat jokes are more common too. with both good and bad sides, it is not very taboo to openly speak of somebody's obesity.
so right away, the fatness of a character in japanese media often communicates their physical strength (more in fantasy material; morbidly obese and large-built doctor kosaku tokita from the film paprika is unusually portrayed as physically quite weak, although morally and intellectually much above average). you can see where this goes, and what the japanese designers thought when they made bob and rufus.
interestingly, both of these characters are american. even more tellingly of japanese values, both of them have blonde hair, blue eyes and facial hair, traits that are seen as stereotypically american. perhaps the idea is that the characters are meant to be seen as american first, morbidly obese second. i have no way to know, though.
as many posters have pointed out, rufus is a much less negative character than was insisted in the video. i have a hard time thinking of instances where his fatness is brought into a negative light; sure he acts like a hotheaded jerk, but it is not written to be inherent to his obese character. he is, in fact, written to be very proud of his body and appearance with great stamina and a hot chick.
the only other options whether rufus' obesity should be looked at negatively are 1. the designers are trolling and you are obviously meant to laugh at him, or 2. of course he is worthy of ridicule, he is fat. for option number 1, there is really nothing in terms of writing or story that suggests that rufus is to be despised because of his obesity more than his awful nature. he is shown eating, but not insane amounts, and he does make food puns and jokes. then again, so does el fuerte. number 2 is all on the audience to choose.
the complaint that "fat characters are shown as gluttonous" is weak. it is the same as a sickly thin character shown refusing food: one of a handful of mental quirks/choices that alters the way you appear physically. there is literally no other way to get fat other than eating more calories than you burn, unless you have a disease. after that it's an issue whether its relevant to the character design that rufus gets fat very easily because he has hypothyroidism.
last couple of notes: rufus and bob are both fantasy characters, who do impossible feats. in this case, their impossible feats are being morbidly obese and agile world-class martial artists. they exist within the same unrealistic fantasy as 50-year old dictators who fly around with psychic energy and underdressed body-ideal pro wrestler women who dominate you in public.
there's an argument that a character being fat should not matter at all. i wonder if this is meant in terms of both negative and positive aspects; if bob being fat does not matter, he cannot be proud of his body.
holy shit i wrote a lot about video game fat guys!!!
Funnily enough Bob falls under the E Honda problem while Rufus is more complex a character than most people realise.
Bob's entire schtick is speed and weight and there is little else about Bob otherwise
Rufus went to China to learn Kung Fu, he biked his way to various kung fu masters to sort out the movie magic from the practical moves.
Rufus is a legend amongst bikers, has a girlfriend, and is one of only 2 characters in street fighter who recognize E Honda is undermining his own goal of promoting sumo by street fighting.
There is more to Rufus than meets the eye, and you not seeing that kinda shows that you, too, have fallen under the trap of obese sterotypes despite warning your audience against it.
Other who also recognizes Honda's bad effect is Dan Hibiki who has more "realistic" build as well. Self-taught, not a prodigy and always broke and still soldiers on.
Tekken's Bob: "Sammo Hung" potrayal.
if only the video was more recent so Goldlewis could be included.
Goldlewis Dickinson is a great new addition
Smash is just sitting in the corner droppin a mic because K. Rool is just the coolest of em all and he’s the only fat guy we got.
Makes me want to hear his thoughts on Goldlewis Dickinson.
they are just a good and a bad american stereotype, I don't think rufus is that bad, but I clearly see that the guy from tekken has a lot of charisma and it's a badass.
Good video and analysis.
Bob is a joke character, but it’s not a mean joke.
This.
Great production and topics bro 😎
i completely agree with the closing statement: while it's ok to have stereotypical fat, and even fat+disgusting characters, they should never be the only kind of fat character that we have; they should be a relatively small minority
I remember meeting this capoeira master from Brazil that was literally nicknamed "mountain" for his size. You can imagine my surprise and awe when I witnessed this guy literally defying gravity in a fight. I rarely play Tekken or fighting games in general but I remember Bob as a nice breath of fresh air.
and now we have the best fat character - goldlewis dickinson
I don’t care about the differences of these characters. Just because Rufus is “ugly” and “repulsive” doesn’t make him a bad character. A character is everything that they envelop whether you like it or not.
Tbh, everytime I look at Rufus, I always wish Capcom kept the King Cobra design.
Is it necessarily a bad thing that Honda's personality reflects who he is at his core? Sumo is his entire life, it makes perfect sense that he's so passionate about it.
And now we have roughly a IRL example of Bob in the form of Keith Lee
In what way is Rufus exactly a fat stereotypical character other than him happening to being fat?
There is nothing disgusting or whatever you said here.
Rufus is a "I am an idiot"-character who happens to be fat. That's literally it.
Der Maskierte Muchacho Umm... there are actually quite a lot of things that Rufus is that make him a bad character.
Firstly, his colour scheme is meant to convey a disgusting image as his costume is covered in a grimy yellow tone which clashes with his skin. Not to mention that his hair colour also further conveys this concept.
Secondly, his story is that he became a professional fighter by watching Kung Fu movies? If you’re going to tell me that isn’t lazy writing I don’t know what is.
Thirdly, Rufus isn’t just an “I’m an idiot” character otherwise he’d be well received. His personality is over exaggerated to the point where nobody cares anymore, and that’s what makes Bob better.
Bob overall is a character you’d get along with in real life because he makes sense. A character is supposed to have a relatable personality otherwise the entire image falls apart.
The main thing I’m trying to say is, the people who like Rufus are the people who liked playing as him rather than his design or backstory. He’s only a favourite fighter to fans and will never truly be understood for his character because it’s so sloppy and easily ignored if you’re only playing for the fights.
Edit: I also meant to say that Rufus isn’t a heavyweight at all because his attacks feel like every other standard hit, while Bob hits with power.
@@tremendousnachocandy1088 Oh, so anyone with yellow clothes and blonde hair is "grimy" and "disgusting"? Looks like the only person pushing negative stereotypes is you.
He became a professional fighter after being INSPIRED by kung-fu movies and traveling to china to train with the best. If you think that's a flimsy motivation, check out MMA fighter Israel "iforgothislastname" - literally inspired by anime to pickup fighting, and he recently beat the GOAT Anderson Silva.
Being an idiot character doesn't mean you will be well received, that's entirely subjective and you're implying the only reason he ISN'T well received is because he's a fat idiot character - yeah that's fucking stupid, you know that too right? I imagine you were supposed to phrase that better.
Either way,you can hate or love rufus as much as you like, but the fact remains that he is an idiot character - whether you find that annoying or not is up to you.
Josh O I wasn’t here to be overly aggressive, I was only saying that all this stuff combined makes Rufus so unappealing. You really could have written your own comment better.
Rufus trained with masters in China to refine his Kung Fu, at least according to his win quotes.
I watch all you’re design shops and out of all of them, I think this is your best. Keep it up
Rufus' personality is just an accurate representation of the average american. Especially those that didnt go to school and therefore survived up to adulthood due to never being a target for school shooters
I'm a guy who hates Bob, but damm that video is making me think twice about that ...
Eh this video doesn't really make a good argument. All it says is Bob is good because he's different.
still ruined tekken 6 top 8s, fuck him
@Gojira Sentai Well... Now she's a bit broken and considered cheap espwcially online.
Her hop kick crushes both highs and lows. The perfect panic move.
You hype up bob like hes more than Rufus or sfv birdie, but at the end of the day they're identical. Bob's only trait is that he is fat but also fast, at least birdie and rufus have actual personalities. Bob has never gotten even a smidgeon of character development, he is a one note joke character.
I always loved playing Rufus. he was my main for so many years playing SF4 and SFxT. So many years and I kinda miss him in the recent capcom game ^^'...
If I start punching at the edge of the screen. The fat chacter will lose health. Because the fat chacter's hitbox will register it!
I absolutely love this video. Bob is one of my favorite Tekken characters because of the fact that he became fat willingly and didn't sacrifice his speed. That whole concept is dope to me. Not to mention that he has a really cool and dynamic fighting style. He's my main in Tekken 7. Thank you for making this video.
Brandon Jackson
Same bro! Fucking love bob!
Seeing this again after having referenced it in my Tekken 7 stream. Great work, looking forward to future uploads ^^
"Bob would never make it to the tournament"😿
"At their worst fat characters create a harmful association between obesity and piggishness" 😂
bob is a very fun character to play as XD I love how deceptively fast he is!
I think Pudge from Dota works very well as a fat character. His back story as a butcher who descended into cannibalism ties neatly into his abilities and audiovisual design (he literally looks like a Flesh Heap, which is the name of his passive skill). Depending on the team you're on, he can come off either as a terrifying figure straight out of a slasher flick or a goofy fatso (ruclips.net/video/2wk-R_9cK60/видео.html goes into this a bit more, and offers more insight into Dota). It helps as well that Dota 2's sound design and voice acting are some of the best in gaming. It's also worth noting that despite his revolting looks Pudge is by far Dota's most popular character.
If only this was made in 2021. Then we could talk about the glory of GOLDDICK LEWISON
The way I see it, even if you don't like Bob he's so charismatic and present you gotta respect him. But you can't even try to respect Rufus
As much as I like most of this video I don’t think Rufus is a bad character, I always thought of him as a weird joke character and his obnoxiously long dialogue made him funny in a strange way
damn bob is one of my favorite fighter character ever. brilliant analyzation. just found your channel and im eager to stay. great content :3