Ngl Dean being into anime was the biggest "Waitwhat" moment... Then I remembered that it's only recently that anime became a "weird" thing. He probably saw Akira as a kid. He woulda been 12 when it came out.
@@lyntonflemingAnime has always been a weird hobby in the west. Hell, I’d argue that it’s NOW becoming less of a weird one, as American cartoons and entertainment is going to trash and people are taking the leap from comics and comic book movies to manga and anime. Hell, even hentai is becoming more normal because society is starting to normalize porn addictions more and more.
Eve in my personal opinion had so much potential. I felt like they really ruined what they could have done with her. It's sad because, she could have made monsters interesting again.
@@fireorb2 Eve is more interesting than The Leviathan, it crazy how they just scrap her so fast after killing two of somewhat important character or at least they should be. They really waste Rufus and Samuel
I think Gadreel was handled really well for the only season he appeared in. This is how you write good characters with a beginning and actual ending that sums them up.
I felt bad for Gadreel, he was just an Angel who really didn't mean to cause all the damage he did when he let Lucifer into the Garden I wish he could've gotten a better ending, but at least he went out a hero
Gadreel was awesome, and he was never evil. I don't like how much Sam and Dean hated him. When Dean prayed for help, who showed up? He did, and he didn't do it for some selfish reason, he genuinely wanted to help, and do his duty as an angel. He just had a bad habit of trusting the wrong people, and being somewhat easily manipulated. He went out a hero though, for sure, and he was the most honorable angel in the entire show, by far💁🏻♀️
@@Jackyll-x3o They didn't hate him because of who Gadreel was They were furious because of what he did to Kevin and how much he helped in ruining the universe Gadreel unknowingly helped in corrupting humanity, making God leave, and then everything with Metatron But after he helped them, and then died to help save the world That showed Gadreel was no longer the Angel he once was, but the Angel he was always meant to be
@@Jackyll-x3oHe DID do it for a selfish reason as he was trying to earn the respect of the angels and Heaven again. He didn’t want to be the outcast in prison any longer. He is definitely ONE of the most honorable angels in the show, but there are a couple that still outdo him, especially if we’re allowing for mistakes to be forgiven.
I personally would put Azazel at number 1. Putting aside what he set in motion, he was just so....foreboding and sinister. The second he showed up on screen, you would immediately tense up.
True- Azazel is my 3rd place, the second he showed up I got CHILLS, he was SO DAMN SCARY. All of his lines were so cool, his plans made one of the best plots on the series. I just loved him as a villain.
Though I would probably put season 5 Lucifer at number 1, Azazel benefits from being a consistently written character through all his run at less whacky seasons of supernatural.
Yes. While there's a lot of work here it's weird the OP thinks that putting him at 5 seems HIGH. Like, nah, he and Lucifer and pretty much a top 2 in either order. There's no show without the yellow eyes.
Abaddon was my personal favorite big bad, each episode she was on she just beat the crap out of everyone, she does what she wants and doesn't give a crap about it. Also, her t-shirt saying "the devil made me do it", always cracks me up. 😂
I'm so glad Crowley made it so high on the list, he's definitely one of my top favorites. And I know you said a lot of people didn't like Metatron, but I really loved his character as well. He REALLY shook up the story.
@@silencedmaxim5889 So true The actor and the character were both so good He was so good, and so easy to hate, it was amazing Plus, his ending was certainly honourable Dying a hero
she kinda tried to escape that fate tho. At least for some time. Remember she tried to make a deal with Sam cause she found out that she needs to die for apocalypse to happen
@@Archiver_Studio Yeah, that's one thing that always tripped me up. There was a sweet spot where Sam had the power to psychically pop demons and the 5th seal wasn't yet broken where Sam 100% COULD have killed her and nothing bad would have happened. But she managed to make it look like a bad idea until there were no more good ideas and killing her was actually the worst idea.
The whole “no king, what do we do?!?” thing made sense in the short term But the leviathans logical definitely would’ve had their ducks in a row by in a season or two
This they were shown to be smarter than most average humans and they take in a persons memory's and knowledge when they turn into them it's really where they just didn't do anything
Meditron might not have been the best villain, but the conversation he has with Chuck over the nature of God, humanity, and story telling is one of the best in the whole series.
I feel like Supernatural needed to do what G.O.W did exploring God's from various culture. It's like after the apocalypse Sam & Dean forgot about them to solely focus on Demon's or Leviathan...if they had them get the Mark of Cain in order to combat the "other" God's that'd be insane.
its sad that the storyline for the first 5 seasons was so well written and well done, that after they averted the apocalypse, i feel the show really struggled especially stumbling around season 10-15, tho i do and always will love the show and the characters.
@@ronibopshop not really, at first they were not sure how it would go, but they had a few direction planned, one of them was to finish the story with Dean killing Demon Sam, but they end up taking another approache, one were they would end it all with a tragic ending at the end of season 5, but the show needed to continu, so they adapted the final to let room for future event.
The story being concise and driven in the first 5 season was definitely a plus, but I find it fun how for the first 5 or so seasons after that it seemed like every enemy that came next made some sense.
@Peoe500 Yeah, but the Winchester's really stepped up their creature design with the Loup-Garou. Personally if they do green-lit a spin-off. Maybe they should add the monsters that never got shown like the black dogs, chupacabra, and maybe change a few monster designs. 🤷♂️
I'm of the theory that Chuck's plan was actually to give up his powers and let someone else take the reins. When we consider that Supernatural is a very self-aware show, especially in Chuck's case, his heel turn and the widely hated ending all actually make sense as part of his true plan. I'd like to bring up these points as evidence: He hands a gun that can actually damage him to the Winchesters and demands they kill Jack, who they see as part of the family. Considering the history of the Winchesters when it comes to making those kinds of decisions, he can't have actually expected it to work. He had to know they'd turn on him, they do it every time to protect their own. When we first meet Chuck, he is literally self-inserting himself into the story. That was the first hint of his true nature, but it also confirms that he's fully aware of what Sam and Dean are doing. They manage to find a way to hide from him later, but who's to say that actually worked. Chuck has had many opportunities to simply get rid of them (especially after combining with Amara), so it's highly likely that he just let them think they were hiding because the story he was writing demanded it. Speaking of Amara, Chuck goes out of his way to combine with her to regain his power, but this has another effect and was likely the real reason he did this: It removes her as a player. Without Amara, nobody is powerful enough to threaten the world he created, other than Jack, who is a much kinder person than Amara and has lived without his powers (something Amara has not ever done, she lacks the same level of humility and would not hesitate to use them if she desired). The boys needed the help of Fortuna to stand a chance against him because he literally removed their plot armor. But luck can only get you so far, and there's absolutely nothing to state the Chuck couldn't just wipe that from them either, Fortuna is a pagan deity, she's significantly less powerful than him. The only reason that trick would've ever worked is because Chuck allowed it to. Speaking of luck, after the boys lose their plot armor, they're basically just regular humans fighting monsters. They get humbled real hard by a single vamp and have to be saved by Garth (who is a werewolf at this point and he *still* had to resort to C4 explosives). After fighting with plot armor for so long, it's natural that the boys would be rusty. This ties in perfectly well with how the show ended: Something went wrong during a hunt and somebody died. The show makes very frequent statements that the life of a Hunter is not one that comes with a retirement plan. That Sam even lived as long as he did proved that he was the exception, not the rule. In other words, the show ended exactly as it should have. Finally, Chuck alluded to the fact that he would be the final villain. He states that he is the "monster at the end of the book". When he visits Becky to get her input on how the story ends, he says it will just be a gravestone (a SINGLE gravestone, NOT two!) that says "Winchester". She gets furious with him, saying that people will hate it, and that's exactly what happened: the fans hated the ending and only a single Winchester died. In other words, everything that happened when Chuck was the villain was all part of his plan, including his defeat. Because remember, Chuck was a writer. And every writer knows, it's the characters that drive the story. Chuck had finally settled on his final draft. It was time to step away from the typewriter.
Great theory I was thinking the same thing not only that as more evidence they state in the show of course he lied it’s what writers do so it would fit in if he was faking being made to finish the story how he wanted it. It wouldn’t make for a good story if Sam and dean knew chuck was losing on purpose
For your first part of the comment, chuck was too proud and arrogant to give up his powers. Compared to god in the Lucifer series, to his character I would agree.
@@TheHIMLegacy Well, that's precisely the part he played, he had to make it convincing if he was going to be the villain. It wouldn't do to have the final season just be Chuck going "Hey guys, I'm done with your story, it's all you now." Besides, his return in season where Amara is the big bad shows that he's just tired of being God. There's even a line about how he just gives himself the ability to play the guitar and admires how humans actually develop the skill.
Man, maybe, just maybe, you'll see this comment. Don't stop making videos. I pretty much grew up with Supernatural, and it's amazing to see someone who knows the story so deeply and provides answers to unanswered questions. The information is really well put together. I watched almost all of your videos in two days because I liked them so much. Truly, hats off to you.
I think Azazel is so impactful because everything with him feels so far-reaching and PERSONAL. He's been part of the Winchester's story since before Sam and Dean were born, a threat to them since the beginning. John and the boys didn't even know demons were real for certain, so he's got an air of mystery to him in the beginning. His actions directly kick off so much of the show's plotlines, he orphans the boys by killing both of their parents, he kills Jess which drags Sam back into hunting, and he does it all while evading their gaze. Azazel is the reason Sam and Dean are so driven to hunt, he's the initial motivation for them and one of the two demons directly responsible for Lucifer's rise from Hell. His influence is felt for multiple seasons, and the boys feel haunted by his watchful yellow eyes.
right he deserved a higher spot honestly. if nothing else he wasn't completely wasted like Eve(allthough she certainly had way more potential i don't think unused potential alone should keep her higher) and definetly better than the Leviathans.
Apocalypse Mike pissed me off specifically with the Dean plot but when you realize Amara, Lucifer, Michael etc a few others, how they were all doing these things mainly because of their dad, it’s actually sad and kinda relatable. Sometimes we tend to lose ourselves due to friends and family 😕
I never once heard throughout Supernatural that Lilith was considered the most powerful demon, that title seemed to belong to Cain. From what I remember, her only purpose was to break Lucifer out of his cage. If she was so powerful, she would have done a lot more.
I'm one of those people that didn't like the shift in Chuck's characterization. I think if Amara had been slightly more evil and been the final big bad for the entire series it would've worked out much better. I also agree with your take on Eve and I would've loved to see more of her on the show. They could've invented some completely new monsters and propelled the show in a wildly different direction for a couple of seasons with no concrete resolution, but perhaps pushing her back into purgatory.
That's the one thing that kept getting me the whole show. How you can want free will but want someone to save you. Humankind is responsible for every bad thing in this world. They even show it from the start of Cain and Able to now. We can't want free will and wait for the superhero to swoop in. Another thing is a lot of the horrors these dudes face or man made. This was a good show. I think the writers felt conflicted on a lot of this stuff.
God Castiel was crazy thing and had so much crazy lines and the things he did were insane. Was hype and for Cass of all ppl to be doing these things and knowing his reasonings make sense. God complex and going insane with power, where his vessel breaking down
Good point know she actually wasn’t I actually just realized this after reading your comment 😂 she was definitely scary as you could straight up never trust her at least her son you could at times but her nah 😂 you never knew what she was going to do and she was a witch so he powers could grow throughout the entirety of the show well until her death anyways
If Lucifer was only kept as the main antagonist of Season 5 I would've ranked him the best Big Bad of the series, but constantly bringing him back diminished his menace. The end fight in Season 13 between Michael/Dean and Lucifer, something Team Free Will did everything in their power to avoid in Season 5, really showed just how weak Lucifer ended up being. His battle with Michael was supposed to level cities and probably kill half the planet, but all the Season 13 fight did was break a few windows once Lucifer died. And then he randomly pops back up to make fun of Michael in the last season, gets killed after 5 minutes, and the floor isn't even singed upon his death. Overall I would say Azazel was the best Supernatural villain, given that he basically WON in achieving all his goals, even though he didn't live to see his final goal, releasing Lucifer, completed. Azazel was crafty, and the fact that he was used sparingly kept his menace intact. Lucifer may have been the man behind the monster, but Azazel was by far the most personal out of all the Big Bads. My rankings would be (from best to worst) 1. Azazel 2. Lucifer (Season 5 only) 3. Amara (I call her "Leviathan perfected" because she basically repeats the first part of the Leviathan story but keeps her menace through the entire season.) 4. Michael 2.0 5. Crowley (Season 8) 6. Lilith 7. Chuck 8. Mark of Cain 9. Leviathan (They started off TERRIFYING but got too boring when they went corporate and went out way too easily.) 10. Metatron 11. British Men of Letters 12. Raphael Best Secondary antagonists: 1. Zachariah - He wasn't the Big Bad of Season 4 or 5, but he was one hell of a memorable villain. The scene where Dean discovers that Zack had no intention of stopping Lilith from releasing Lucifer because he was so confident that Michael would triumph was one of the most chilling twists in the series, especially when Zack handwaved the prospect of billions of people dying in the confrontation as merely "breaking a few eggs to make an omelette." 2. Meg 1.0 3. Rowena 4. Eve 5. Abaddon 6. Michael 1.0 7. Asmodeus (I don't consider him a Big Bad, just a Disc One Final Boss who acted as a placeholder to the true villain of the season, Michael 2.0) 8. The Steins 9. Lucifer (Post Season 11)
Lilith was more or just as successful than Azazel, and she didnt screw up with the Colt like he did. Azazel dying wasnt the plan, he was suppossed to be with Lucifer all the way.
I personally would have like to see more interactions between the different monsters, Demons and Angels, for example how about original Death giving Lucifer a bad time over that spell he used to controll him, would have been fun.
One of my favorite parts that illustrates just how terrifying Death is comes in his first appearance. For nearly five whole seasons we have been beaten over the head with how powerful Lucifer is, and how outmatched humanity is. Then you hear Death refer to him as "a bratty child throwing a temper tantrum" matter-of-factly.
The top 4 are IMPECABLE. I would only change the Azazel and God placements, personally speaking. While God is, you know, God and I 100% agree on your reasons as why he is such a great book end villain, Azazel is ESSENTIAL. I truly don't think Supernatural would kept going without the mystery and strength of Azazel. The only reason I wouldn't place his as 3rd is because while Azazel is personal case for the boys, Castiel is a personal case for the audience as well.
Really interesting video, good job. I might have re-arranged a couple myself but that's just personal preference. I feel like they wasted Eve as well (who ironically should have been called Lilith, but they'd already used that name 😂), and the Chuck and Metatron stories just annoyed me.
Dean is my favorite character, but it is so closely tied to Crowley. I don’t know why but even as a villain whether he was just a demon or the big bad or when he was on their side or when they were turning him into a human, when him and Dean became besties oh my God I loved him in every moment. Like they’re so closely tied that it’s more like Dean only wins by .5 points lol
This was an Incredible Masterpiece for The Main Antagonist’s of Supernatural. My Ranking of The Main Antagonist’s of Supernatural 1: Lucifer 2: Crowley 3: Azazel 4: Apocalypse World Michael 5: Ruby 6: The Darkness 7: Meg 8: Lilith 9: Menatron 10: God 11: The Mark of Cain 12: Dick Roman 13: Raphael 14 Duma 15: British Men of Letters
I personally thought that the British Men of Letters were the least interesting parts of season 12. Not to say that there wasn’t some things that were cool and interesting but I found the most entertaining episodes of season 12 had little or nothing to do with the British Men of Letters.
The fact that we all hate Metatron so much owes great credit to the actor playing him. Curtis Armstrong obviously did a fantastic job playing him 😂 But Abaddon is hands down my favorite villain, she also has a satisfying end. Honorable mention to the little girl who plays Lillith.
idk if you read the book for 'the Magicians' but Marina is a show only character and she is hands-down probably the best "villain" scyfi has made. she's the only reason i watch that show.
Another comment just to add some points and thoughts based on what was in the video: I felt you ranked Metatron fairly, I actually quite liked him. It was an effective betrayal and at some points he seemed unstoppable with the tablet and his ability to get angels on his side. I didn’t mind how they dealt with him, also didn’t mind him being annoying and arrogant as I assumed this was just his direction as a villain, and even his “forced to the good side arc” was.. solid. I’m a bit biased to the Leviathans as season 7 was one of my favorites post 5, they legitimately put off the vibe of being unstoppable forces, it was fun seeing Dean, Sam, and Bobby have to find a way to even harm these guys, plus Dick killed Bobby, which gives you extra hatred and stakes, I’d rank them a bit higher but I can’t hate or disagree with the ranking especially due to the reasoning of the plan and ending. I also liked a lot about Lilith, despite her strength, she had to work in a covert manner, it was fun seeing her break seals and the boys try and fail to stop them, she felt inevitable. Supernatural content is surprisingly not widely available enough imo so I’m glad to have found the channel!
I did actually like metatron as a villain. It's difficult to say why exactly because it seems like everything that made him bad in other peoples' eyes is what made him good in mine. I can't remember the season fully, but I'm strangely fond of it.
I think the Mark actually did play off of Dean's personality quite well personally. I mean the show literally shows how it changes him and has him fighting against it and himself to claw back some semblance of his humanity.
I actually love the fact that God ends up being the big bad. It was a nice twist. I found Chuck to be pretty funny. It seemed rushed at the end though. The wrap up of the show I mean.
Iv always took it as when he casted away his sister he put his evil in her and stole her good. When she came back etc the good went back into her and evil back into him.
Lucifer may be the ultimate villain in terms of power scale and danger but Azazel was the one that had the most impact in the show. His actions shaped Sam and Dean into the hunters we know and love, their conflict with him was personal. He forced Mary into a deal, killed their parents and Sam's girlfriend and he cursed Sam with his blood, not to mention that he probably had a hand in Dean's deal at the end of season 2.
The leviathans looked like walking versions of the creatures in the Langoliers. I also thought their punishment of consuming each other was sort of a head scratcher.
Please do a video on Supernatural Lucifer Vs Lucifer from Lucifer 😂 not just in a fight but also in terms of character. Who do you think is the better Lucifer??????
I do get Chuck as a villain and it's a twist on it. I do think the apathetic distant god had more depth and interesting in the early seasons. Chuck is an interesting take on God, being like bored and trying to get creation right. Chuck being God is weird but it does give a recognizable face and it gives that author spin on the creator. Gave some cool lines and connections or comparisons
Honestly, almost EVERYONE, can agree that Lucifer was the best villain the writers could come up with, yes, he was some narcisistic baby, but that doesn't let him be less of a villain
The best villains have some kind of personality disorder. Lucifer himself mentions he probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder in a hallucination that Sam has, but it actually makes sense lol
Agreed. Aside from maybe Sam and Dean, Crowley is THE best character in the show, period. Mark Sheppard is *_flawless_* in his performance. Absolutely legendary character all around.
One of my favorite scenes or moments in Supernatural is nearing the end when Lucifer is feigning as the good guy mistakenly seen as the bad guy, but he finally shows his true colours and becomes the evil incarnate he always has been. I started losing interest in the show at this moment until that shift. I helps put the show on a higher pedestal than it otherwise might have gotten if it went more in the direction I saw it could have went at that time. It's near the end of the show when the otherworld Raphael battles Lucifer.
I think what lead to the shift in lucifers personality and persona was what you say here but I also figured that when we see him during season 7 appearing in Sam’s head/messed up reality he is that more jokey just ruining peoples day kind of character , I I always figured people liking that version of him during that time may of also lead to them making him that version of the character permanently when he made a return . I like both versions either way. This was a cool list, mostly agree tbh, I may shift one or 2 here or there but for the most part it’s cool, I also think there’s some other characters that would’ve been cool on here but I understand your reasons for not including them 👍
I agree that lucifer is the best villain in supernatural. I wish both michaels had a bigger role in the series. One was killed by god and the other by jack but they themselves didn’t do much
The Leviathans always seemed like a Doctor Who villain to me more than a Supernatural villain. Like their plan is very similar to the Master's plan at the end of David Tenant's season with Martha Jones.
The men of letters and the leviathans might be my least favorite enemies across the series. I'm a bit of a purist. What got me into the show was a pair of brothers traveling the continent fighting all manners of weird and mystical creatures born of folklore and stories across many cultures, showing a depth and complexity of the culture and land of north America. The arrival of angels was the first time my interest in the series wavered heavily, because it's exactly the opposite of a lot of the monsters and folklore in the prior supernatural seasons - its unified, well known and most of all - used and overused in media to death. So aside from an exception or two, we had no more norse/egyptian/incan/etc gods or curses, no Indian spirits, just the bible, biblical creatures and bible stories. It was only by the strength of the characters and a somewhat interesting take on the biblical material that it kept my attention. But the men of letter and leviathans were the moments where I was checking out completely and just waiting for the story to move on so I could see who they would square up against next. Coz like... seriously. In a show born of a DIY ghost hunting duo taken to an american horror extreme, you'll put your heroes up against... corporate capitalism? Wow... awesome... what else you got? Oh, the people who study and defeat the mystical fighting against people who study and use the mystical? How original... Didn't exactly help when then it was just... back to more cookie cutter biblical material >_>
I have an interesting theory about chucks villain arc. When the darkness/ amara is released and connects with Dean she eventually becomes more empathetic and eventually becomes a good being. Then makes things unbalanced and chuck becomes the more “bad” half of the two.
When you brought up Asmodeus, my brain made me think of the Asmodeus Vivzie made. Now I kind of want to see how Sam and Dean would interact with characters from Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel
Except for Eve, I thought War was the most underutilized villain on the show. Given what he embodies (war, conflict, mass violence, etc.), War could have been a more significant threat during the War in Heaven (both in primordial times and during the Angel Civil War).
I love how you described how Amara was swayed as "talk no jutsu".
"It's called anime and its an art form" - Dean Winchester.
👏 👏👏
~_~
Nicely said
Ngl Dean being into anime was the biggest "Waitwhat" moment...
Then I remembered that it's only recently that anime became a "weird" thing.
He probably saw Akira as a kid. He woulda been 12 when it came out.
@@lyntonflemingAnime has always been a weird hobby in the west. Hell, I’d argue that it’s NOW becoming less of a weird one, as American cartoons and entertainment is going to trash and people are taking the leap from comics and comic book movies to manga and anime. Hell, even hentai is becoming more normal because society is starting to normalize porn addictions more and more.
the fact a mark on deans skin was a better villain than raph and the men of letters is crazy 😭
Its really about impact and not scale
You care more about a guy you know suffering than a world literally ending
My cheeks itch so bad , so bad
You mean the British Men of Letters?
I mean the British man of letters were ass
the whole men of letters arc was boring anyway
Eve in my personal opinion had so much potential. I felt like they really ruined what they could have done with her. It's sad because, she could have made monsters interesting again.
She could have but I'd wager the writers wouldn't have done much knew with the monsters we were already familiar with (sadly 😢)
#MMIA
#MakeMonstersInterestingAgain
Joking lmao
@@Apoc_Bone_Daddy All in good humor. XD
@@fireorb2 Eve is more interesting than The Leviathan, it crazy how they just scrap her so fast after killing two of somewhat important character or at least they should be. They really waste Rufus and Samuel
Yeah, Eve should have been an extreme threat, much more so than Azazel was.
I think Gadreel was handled really well for the only season he appeared in. This is how you write good characters with a beginning and actual ending that sums them up.
I felt bad for Gadreel, he was just an Angel who really didn't mean to cause all the damage he did when he let Lucifer into the Garden
I wish he could've gotten a better ending, but at least he went out a hero
Gadreel was awesome, and he was never evil. I don't like how much Sam and Dean hated him.
When Dean prayed for help, who showed up? He did, and he didn't do it for some selfish reason, he genuinely wanted to help, and do his duty as an angel. He just had a bad habit of trusting the wrong people, and being somewhat easily manipulated. He went out a hero though, for sure, and he was the most honorable angel in the entire show, by far💁🏻♀️
If Gadreel didn't answer Dean's prayer, Dean and Sam would've both been dead that same day.
@@Jackyll-x3o They didn't hate him because of who Gadreel was
They were furious because of what he did to Kevin and how much he helped in ruining the universe
Gadreel unknowingly helped in corrupting humanity, making God leave, and then everything with Metatron
But after he helped them, and then died to help save the world
That showed Gadreel was no longer the Angel he once was, but the Angel he was always meant to be
@@Jackyll-x3oHe DID do it for a selfish reason as he was trying to earn the respect of the angels and Heaven again. He didn’t want to be the outcast in prison any longer. He is definitely ONE of the most honorable angels in the show, but there are a couple that still outdo him, especially if we’re allowing for mistakes to be forgiven.
I personally would put Azazel at number 1. Putting aside what he set in motion, he was just so....foreboding and sinister. The second he showed up on screen, you would immediately tense up.
True- Azazel is my 3rd place, the second he showed up I got CHILLS, he was SO DAMN SCARY.
All of his lines were so cool, his plans made one of the best plots on the series. I just loved him as a villain.
Dude he threatened to rape Mary AS SAMUEL CAMPBEKLhe was chilling
Though I would probably put season 5 Lucifer at number 1, Azazel benefits from being a consistently written character through all his run at less whacky seasons of supernatural.
Yes. While there's a lot of work here it's weird the OP thinks that putting him at 5 seems HIGH. Like, nah, he and Lucifer and pretty much a top 2 in either order. There's no show without the yellow eyes.
@@redhood444 When the hell did he threaten THAT?!
I honestly stopped watching supernatural before it ended, but these videos make me wanna finish the show. Thanks for resparking a love.
Do it at your own risk tho
What about the shadow/empty
The Lucifer vs Crowley feud was the best part of the later seasons.
Abaddon was my personal favorite big bad, each episode she was on she just beat the crap out of everyone, she does what she wants and doesn't give a crap about it. Also, her t-shirt saying "the devil made me do it", always cracks me up. 😂
Some would call that ironic
Considering, is she technically wrong?
@Archiver_Studio Wrong about what?
@@funkyreapercat5280 *Satan making her do these things*
I mean _she was technically corrupted by Cain who was made that way by Lucifer so-_
I'm so glad Crowley made it so high on the list, he's definitely one of my top favorites.
And I know you said a lot of people didn't like Metatron, but I really loved his character as well. He REALLY shook up the story.
You know a bad character is well made when you hate him so much.
@@silencedmaxim5889 So true
The actor and the character were both so good
He was so good, and so easy to hate, it was amazing
Plus, his ending was certainly honourable
Dying a hero
Lilith was also the only big bad that succeeded. Her goal was to get Sam to kill her at that spot and free lucifer. She succeeded.
she kinda tried to escape that fate tho. At least for some time. Remember she tried to make a deal with Sam cause she found out that she needs to die for apocalypse to happen
@boranmetin5099 I think it's implied that that was all part of the plan. Basically her egging Sam on by letting him know she's killable.
@@ZIsHere1234 And to possibly get a loophole
Postponing her demise so she could finish her plan
They were risking her death prematurely after all
@@Archiver_Studio Yeah, that's one thing that always tripped me up.
There was a sweet spot where Sam had the power to psychically pop demons and the 5th seal wasn't yet broken where Sam 100% COULD have killed her and nothing bad would have happened.
But she managed to make it look like a bad idea until there were no more good ideas and killing her was actually the worst idea.
What they did with Eve angered me so much. It's a perfect example of wasted villain potential
Well at least we got God castiel so it doesn't bother me much
Azazel is my personal favourite. Hes creepy, mysterious, powerful and his impact is felt long after his death.
The whole “no king, what do we do?!?” thing made sense in the short term
But the leviathans logical definitely would’ve had their ducks in a row by in a season or two
This they were shown to be smarter than most average humans and they take in a persons memory's and knowledge when they turn into them it's really where they just didn't do anything
I just found this randomly like 2 hours ago and he drops while I’m watching 😭😭 solid work though keep it up dude
Meditron might not have been the best villain, but the conversation he has with Chuck over the nature of God, humanity, and story telling is one of the best in the whole series.
I feel like Supernatural needed to do what G.O.W did exploring God's from various culture. It's like after the apocalypse Sam & Dean forgot about them to solely focus on Demon's or Leviathan...if they had them get the Mark of Cain in order to combat the "other" God's that'd be insane.
its sad that the storyline for the first 5 seasons was so well written and well done, that after they averted the apocalypse, i feel the show really struggled especially stumbling around season 10-15, tho i do and always will love the show and the characters.
Initially the writers planned on 5 seasons but due to the popularity of the show, more seasons kept being added
@@ronibopshop not really, at first they were not sure how it would go, but they had a few direction planned, one of them was to finish the story with Dean killing Demon Sam, but they end up taking another approache, one were they would end it all with a tragic ending at the end of season 5, but the show needed to continu, so they adapted the final to let room for future event.
I'm having trouble getting through the leviathan storyline
@@mackieturner7853 hang on, skip the filler episode, season 8 is really worth it
The story being concise and driven in the first 5 season was definitely a plus, but I find it fun how for the first 5 or so seasons after that it seemed like every enemy that came next made some sense.
The talk-no-Jutsu had me cracking up!
I was more disappointed with Eve than the Levi's. I was expecting some Alien Queen stuff. Like some giant lovecrafian monster like Echidna.
@Peoe500 Yeah, but the Winchester's really stepped up their creature design with the Loup-Garou. Personally if they do green-lit a spin-off. Maybe they should add the monsters that never got shown like the black dogs, chupacabra, and maybe change a few monster designs. 🤷♂️
I'm of the theory that Chuck's plan was actually to give up his powers and let someone else take the reins.
When we consider that Supernatural is a very self-aware show, especially in Chuck's case, his heel turn and the widely hated ending all actually make sense as part of his true plan.
I'd like to bring up these points as evidence:
He hands a gun that can actually damage him to the Winchesters and demands they kill Jack, who they see as part of the family. Considering the history of the Winchesters when it comes to making those kinds of decisions, he can't have actually expected it to work. He had to know they'd turn on him, they do it every time to protect their own.
When we first meet Chuck, he is literally self-inserting himself into the story. That was the first hint of his true nature, but it also confirms that he's fully aware of what Sam and Dean are doing. They manage to find a way to hide from him later, but who's to say that actually worked. Chuck has had many opportunities to simply get rid of them (especially after combining with Amara), so it's highly likely that he just let them think they were hiding because the story he was writing demanded it.
Speaking of Amara, Chuck goes out of his way to combine with her to regain his power, but this has another effect and was likely the real reason he did this: It removes her as a player. Without Amara, nobody is powerful enough to threaten the world he created, other than Jack, who is a much kinder person than Amara and has lived without his powers (something Amara has not ever done, she lacks the same level of humility and would not hesitate to use them if she desired).
The boys needed the help of Fortuna to stand a chance against him because he literally removed their plot armor. But luck can only get you so far, and there's absolutely nothing to state the Chuck couldn't just wipe that from them either, Fortuna is a pagan deity, she's significantly less powerful than him. The only reason that trick would've ever worked is because Chuck allowed it to.
Speaking of luck, after the boys lose their plot armor, they're basically just regular humans fighting monsters. They get humbled real hard by a single vamp and have to be saved by Garth (who is a werewolf at this point and he *still* had to resort to C4 explosives). After fighting with plot armor for so long, it's natural that the boys would be rusty. This ties in perfectly well with how the show ended: Something went wrong during a hunt and somebody died.
The show makes very frequent statements that the life of a Hunter is not one that comes with a retirement plan. That Sam even lived as long as he did proved that he was the exception, not the rule. In other words, the show ended exactly as it should have.
Finally, Chuck alluded to the fact that he would be the final villain. He states that he is the "monster at the end of the book". When he visits Becky to get her input on how the story ends, he says it will just be a gravestone (a SINGLE gravestone, NOT two!) that says "Winchester". She gets furious with him, saying that people will hate it, and that's exactly what happened: the fans hated the ending and only a single Winchester died.
In other words, everything that happened when Chuck was the villain was all part of his plan, including his defeat. Because remember, Chuck was a writer. And every writer knows, it's the characters that drive the story.
Chuck had finally settled on his final draft. It was time to step away from the typewriter.
Great theory I was thinking the same thing not only that as more evidence they state in the show of course he lied it’s what writers do so it would fit in if he was faking being made to finish the story how he wanted it. It wouldn’t make for a good story if Sam and dean knew chuck was losing on purpose
This needs more likes
For your first part of the comment, chuck was too proud and arrogant to give up his powers. Compared to god in the Lucifer series, to his character I would agree.
@@TheHIMLegacy Well, that's precisely the part he played, he had to make it convincing if he was going to be the villain.
It wouldn't do to have the final season just be Chuck going "Hey guys, I'm done with your story, it's all you now."
Besides, his return in season where Amara is the big bad shows that he's just tired of being God. There's even a line about how he just gives himself the ability to play the guitar and admires how humans actually develop the skill.
@@LAZERAK47V2 Bro is supernatural's writer in disguise
Man, maybe, just maybe, you'll see this comment. Don't stop making videos. I pretty much grew up with Supernatural, and it's amazing to see someone who knows the story so deeply and provides answers to unanswered questions. The information is really well put together. I watched almost all of your videos in two days because I liked them so much. Truly, hats off to you.
I think Azazel is so impactful because everything with him feels so far-reaching and PERSONAL. He's been part of the Winchester's story since before Sam and Dean were born, a threat to them since the beginning. John and the boys didn't even know demons were real for certain, so he's got an air of mystery to him in the beginning. His actions directly kick off so much of the show's plotlines, he orphans the boys by killing both of their parents, he kills Jess which drags Sam back into hunting, and he does it all while evading their gaze. Azazel is the reason Sam and Dean are so driven to hunt, he's the initial motivation for them and one of the two demons directly responsible for Lucifer's rise from Hell. His influence is felt for multiple seasons, and the boys feel haunted by his watchful yellow eyes.
Oh 42 minutes your videos are getting longer and longer... I love it.
good vid, brought back some things I completely forgot were in the show
Please keep doing these longer form video's, i really like them!
“After all, how could mere mortals ever dream ti fight god?”
RPG fans laughing in the distance
Metatron is the Deloris Umbridge of the Supernatural world for me. I love to hate him!
right he deserved a higher spot honestly. if nothing else he wasn't completely wasted like Eve(allthough she certainly had way more potential i don't think unused potential alone should keep her higher) and definetly better than the Leviathans.
Apocalypse Mike pissed me off specifically with the Dean plot but when you realize Amara, Lucifer, Michael etc a few others, how they were all doing these things mainly because of their dad, it’s actually sad and kinda relatable.
Sometimes we tend to lose ourselves due to friends and family 😕
Generally I agree to your list, but I don't see why Jack going evil doesn't qualify while Castiel going evil does.
I never once heard throughout Supernatural that Lilith was considered the most powerful demon, that title seemed to belong to Cain. From what I remember, her only purpose was to break Lucifer out of his cage. If she was so powerful, she would have done a lot more.
“Yellow eye demon” was the best
I think Dean going demon every now and then would of been awesome. A guy already so dangerous being a ticking time bomb
I'm one of those people that didn't like the shift in Chuck's characterization. I think if Amara had been slightly more evil and been the final big bad for the entire series it would've worked out much better. I also agree with your take on Eve and I would've loved to see more of her on the show. They could've invented some completely new monsters and propelled the show in a wildly different direction for a couple of seasons with no concrete resolution, but perhaps pushing her back into purgatory.
But did he really change? The god of the old testament bible is a bit of a jealous psycho
1:51 on god im rewatching the show, im half way through season 12 , i dont even remember him and i just watched the season last week
Cool video second best depiction of Lucifer in my opinion
Eve was way underused and underrated.
That's the one thing that kept getting me the whole show. How you can want free will but want someone to save you. Humankind is responsible for every bad thing in this world. They even show it from the start of Cain and Able to now. We can't want free will and wait for the superhero to swoop in. Another thing is a lot of the horrors these dudes face or man made. This was a good show. I think the writers felt conflicted on a lot of this stuff.
God Castiel was crazy thing and had so much crazy lines and the things he did were insane. Was hype and for Cass of all ppl to be doing these things and knowing his reasonings make sense. God complex and going insane with power, where his vessel breaking down
Brilliant video, but did I miss you mention Rowena? She was amazing.
Good point know she actually wasn’t I actually just realized this after reading your comment 😂 she was definitely scary as you could straight up never trust her at least her son you could at times but her nah 😂 you never knew what she was going to do and she was a witch so he powers could grow throughout the entirety of the show well until her death anyways
Anything from seasons 5-15 being higher than Azazel is a crime 😂
Freaking Meg is better than the rest of supernatural villain except for Lucifer, Azazel, and probably the og Michael.
Could ask for a better birthday present the video from one of my favorite content creators
"The problem with an inanimate object as the villain is that they have no personality or interaction with the heroes"
The One Ring: "Amateurs."
If Lucifer was only kept as the main antagonist of Season 5 I would've ranked him the best Big Bad of the series, but constantly bringing him back diminished his menace. The end fight in Season 13 between Michael/Dean and Lucifer, something Team Free Will did everything in their power to avoid in Season 5, really showed just how weak Lucifer ended up being. His battle with Michael was supposed to level cities and probably kill half the planet, but all the Season 13 fight did was break a few windows once Lucifer died. And then he randomly pops back up to make fun of Michael in the last season, gets killed after 5 minutes, and the floor isn't even singed upon his death. Overall I would say Azazel was the best Supernatural villain, given that he basically WON in achieving all his goals, even though he didn't live to see his final goal, releasing Lucifer, completed. Azazel was crafty, and the fact that he was used sparingly kept his menace intact. Lucifer may have been the man behind the monster, but Azazel was by far the most personal out of all the Big Bads.
My rankings would be (from best to worst)
1. Azazel
2. Lucifer (Season 5 only)
3. Amara (I call her "Leviathan perfected" because she basically repeats the first part of the Leviathan story but keeps her menace through the entire season.)
4. Michael 2.0
5. Crowley (Season 8)
6. Lilith
7. Chuck
8. Mark of Cain
9. Leviathan (They started off TERRIFYING but got too boring when they went corporate and went out way too easily.)
10. Metatron
11. British Men of Letters
12. Raphael
Best Secondary antagonists:
1. Zachariah - He wasn't the Big Bad of Season 4 or 5, but he was one hell of a memorable villain. The scene where Dean discovers that Zack had no intention of stopping Lilith from releasing Lucifer because he was so confident that Michael would triumph was one of the most chilling twists in the series, especially when Zack handwaved the prospect of billions of people dying in the confrontation as merely "breaking a few eggs to make an omelette."
2. Meg 1.0
3. Rowena
4. Eve
5. Abaddon
6. Michael 1.0
7. Asmodeus (I don't consider him a Big Bad, just a Disc One Final Boss who acted as a placeholder to the true villain of the season, Michael 2.0)
8. The Steins
9. Lucifer (Post Season 11)
Lilith was more or just as successful than Azazel, and she didnt screw up with the Colt like he did.
Azazel dying wasnt the plan, he was suppossed to be with Lucifer all the way.
I gotta say, you did a great job arguing why the top 5 villains were really great for the show
I personally would have like to see more interactions between the different monsters, Demons and Angels, for example how about original Death giving Lucifer a bad time over that spell he used to controll him, would have been fun.
One of my favorite parts that illustrates just how terrifying Death is comes in his first appearance. For nearly five whole seasons we have been beaten over the head with how powerful Lucifer is, and how outmatched humanity is. Then you hear Death refer to him as "a bratty child throwing a temper tantrum" matter-of-factly.
You should do a video with all of sam and deans deaths and rank them.
Bro, there's only one big bad...
"OH SPIKE, you're the big bad!"
Best crossover comment !!
The top 4 are IMPECABLE.
I would only change the Azazel and God placements, personally speaking.
While God is, you know, God and I 100% agree on your reasons as why he is such a great book end villain, Azazel is ESSENTIAL. I truly don't think Supernatural would kept going without the mystery and strength of Azazel.
The only reason I wouldn't place his as 3rd is because while Azazel is personal case for the boys, Castiel is a personal case for the audience as well.
The hot mic shtick will NEVER get old lol
Could you do a dive into the theories that were coming out as the seasons released like an icebergs video
Really interesting video, good job. I might have re-arranged a couple myself but that's just personal preference. I feel like they wasted Eve as well (who ironically should have been called Lilith, but they'd already used that name 😂), and the Chuck and Metatron stories just annoyed me.
"Oh, Sammy...you know I hate shots."
"I hate demons."😂
Dean is my favorite character, but it is so closely tied to Crowley. I don’t know why but even as a villain whether he was just a demon or the big bad or when he was on their side or when they were turning him into a human, when him and Dean became besties oh my God I loved him in every moment. Like they’re so closely tied that it’s more like Dean only wins by .5 points lol
Off subject but the episode changing channels was the best lol
This was an Incredible Masterpiece for The Main Antagonist’s of Supernatural.
My Ranking of The Main Antagonist’s of Supernatural
1: Lucifer
2: Crowley
3: Azazel
4: Apocalypse World Michael
5: Ruby
6: The Darkness
7: Meg
8: Lilith
9: Menatron
10: God
11: The Mark of Cain
12: Dick Roman
13: Raphael
14 Duma
15: British Men of Letters
All the monsters of this show look like humans 😂
I didn't mean to see a 40 minute video, yet here i am...
I personally thought that the British Men of Letters were the least interesting parts of season 12. Not to say that there wasn’t some things that were cool and interesting but I found the most entertaining episodes of season 12 had little or nothing to do with the British Men of Letters.
any chance you make a video on Lilith ?
Lucifer was by far the best, but that's mainly bc the actor portraying him nailed it. When he finally arrived it was awesome!
The fact that we all hate Metatron so much owes great credit to the actor playing him. Curtis Armstrong obviously did a fantastic job playing him 😂 But Abaddon is hands down my favorite villain, she also has a satisfying end. Honorable mention to the little girl who plays Lillith.
"Super Saiyan slap fight" 😂😂😂
Nick Lucifer is my favorite character in the entire show.
I wish other tv shows/movies would keep the villain character as long as the ones in super natural
idk if you read the book for 'the Magicians' but Marina is a show only character and she is hands-down probably the best "villain" scyfi has made. she's the only reason i watch that show.
Another comment just to add some points and thoughts based on what was in the video: I felt you ranked Metatron fairly, I actually quite liked him. It was an effective betrayal and at some points he seemed unstoppable with the tablet and his ability to get angels on his side. I didn’t mind how they dealt with him, also didn’t mind him being annoying and arrogant as I assumed this was just his direction as a villain, and even his “forced to the good side arc” was.. solid. I’m a bit biased to the Leviathans as season 7 was one of my favorites post 5, they legitimately put off the vibe of being unstoppable forces, it was fun seeing Dean, Sam, and Bobby have to find a way to even harm these guys, plus Dick killed Bobby, which gives you extra hatred and stakes, I’d rank them a bit higher but I can’t hate or disagree with the ranking especially due to the reasoning of the plan and ending. I also liked a lot about Lilith, despite her strength, she had to work in a covert manner, it was fun seeing her break seals and the boys try and fail to stop them, she felt inevitable. Supernatural content is surprisingly not widely available enough imo so I’m glad to have found the channel!
Would love to see a video on Luci’s cage and how crowley’s team remade the vessel nick
Fuck, thank God you spent time breaking down what a big bad is on a 40 minute video
You should find a video idea about Bobby's character, or maybe the people that help shape Sam and Deans character morals!!!
I did actually like metatron as a villain. It's difficult to say why exactly because it seems like everything that made him bad in other peoples' eyes is what made him good in mine. I can't remember the season fully, but I'm strangely fond of it.
The longer the video the better 😊 I mean don't be a college kid and just use filler words lol but I like the longer videos
I bet from his time and interactions with the mark is how Lucider learned/was inspired to create demons.
I think the Mark actually did play off of Dean's personality quite well personally. I mean the show literally shows how it changes him and has him fighting against it and himself to claw back some semblance of his humanity.
I actually love the fact that God ends up being the big bad. It was a nice twist. I found Chuck to be pretty funny. It seemed rushed at the end though. The wrap up of the show I mean.
Iv always took it as when he casted away his sister he put his evil in her and stole her good. When she came back etc the good went back into her and evil back into him.
Im cryin laughing at work thinking that supernatural legit pulled off an Omen when Lucifer possessed the pres 😂😂
Lucifer may be the ultimate villain in terms of power scale and danger but Azazel was the one that had the most impact in the show. His actions shaped Sam and Dean into the hunters we know and love, their conflict with him was personal. He forced Mary into a deal, killed their parents and Sam's girlfriend and he cursed Sam with his blood, not to mention that he probably had a hand in Dean's deal at the end of season 2.
Nice video and ofc i respect Your opinion but my top 2 is amara and top 1 is god coz he is the real villan throught the whole 15 seasons..
The leviathans looked like walking versions of the creatures in the Langoliers. I also thought their punishment of consuming each other was sort of a head scratcher.
Please do a video on Supernatural Lucifer Vs Lucifer from Lucifer 😂 not just in a fight but also in terms of character. Who do you think is the better Lucifer??????
I do get Chuck as a villain and it's a twist on it. I do think the apathetic distant god had more depth and interesting in the early seasons. Chuck is an interesting take on God, being like bored and trying to get creation right. Chuck being God is weird but it does give a recognizable face and it gives that author spin on the creator. Gave some cool lines and connections or comparisons
i also like how it fix some issue with season 5 final
Honestly, almost EVERYONE, can agree that Lucifer was the best villain the writers could come up with, yes, he was some narcisistic baby, but that doesn't let him be less of a villain
The best villains have some kind of personality disorder. Lucifer himself mentions he probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder in a hallucination that Sam has, but it actually makes sense lol
Or someone who's fed up. Just because a character is pissed off doesn't mean their a baby or a child.
Nah, hell nah. No way Crowley isn't number 1. I refuse.
I mean realistically, Crowley is more like Vegeta. More like chaotic neutral in my opinion haha
Agreed.
Aside from maybe Sam and Dean, Crowley is THE best character in the show, period.
Mark Sheppard is *_flawless_* in his performance.
Absolutely legendary character all around.
I put Bobby above Sam@@F1rstWorldNomaD
One of my favorite scenes or moments in Supernatural is nearing the end when Lucifer is feigning as the good guy mistakenly seen as the bad guy, but he finally shows his true colours and becomes the evil incarnate he always has been. I started losing interest in the show at this moment until that shift. I helps put the show on a higher pedestal than it otherwise might have gotten if it went more in the direction I saw it could have went at that time. It's near the end of the show when the otherworld Raphael battles Lucifer.
Honestly. If you wanted to start making videos on the stargate universe, I'd be your loyal viewer. I love SG1.
I think what lead to the shift in lucifers personality and persona was what you say here but I also figured that when we see him during season 7 appearing in Sam’s head/messed up reality he is that more jokey just ruining peoples day kind of character , I I always figured people liking that version of him during that time may of also lead to them making him that version of the character permanently when he made a return . I like both versions either way. This was a cool list, mostly agree tbh, I may shift one or 2 here or there but for the most part it’s cool, I also think there’s some other characters that would’ve been cool on here but I understand your reasons for not including them 👍
"But here's The Thing..." ugh that was a bad pun.
I agree that lucifer is the best villain in supernatural. I wish both michaels had a bigger role in the series. One was killed by god and the other by jack but they themselves didn’t do much
Considering that Amara was the antagonist the previous season, the British men of letters just weren't intimidating
Mary didn't die because she interrupted the demon, she died because that's how it was with all the mothers
17:35 I'm pretty sure that's also the idea of at least a couple of JRPG villains
The leviathans were possibly in my top 5 favorite villains maybe even top 3 and there season was one of my favorites
The Leviathans always seemed like a Doctor Who villain to me more than a Supernatural villain.
Like their plan is very similar to the Master's plan at the end of David Tenant's season with Martha Jones.
The men of letters and the leviathans might be my least favorite enemies across the series. I'm a bit of a purist. What got me into the show was a pair of brothers traveling the continent fighting all manners of weird and mystical creatures born of folklore and stories across many cultures, showing a depth and complexity of the culture and land of north America.
The arrival of angels was the first time my interest in the series wavered heavily, because it's exactly the opposite of a lot of the monsters and folklore in the prior supernatural seasons - its unified, well known and most of all - used and overused in media to death. So aside from an exception or two, we had no more norse/egyptian/incan/etc gods or curses, no Indian spirits, just the bible, biblical creatures and bible stories. It was only by the strength of the characters and a somewhat interesting take on the biblical material that it kept my attention.
But the men of letter and leviathans were the moments where I was checking out completely and just waiting for the story to move on so I could see who they would square up against next. Coz like... seriously. In a show born of a DIY ghost hunting duo taken to an american horror extreme, you'll put your heroes up against... corporate capitalism? Wow... awesome... what else you got? Oh, the people who study and defeat the mystical fighting against people who study and use the mystical? How original...
Didn't exactly help when then it was just... back to more cookie cutter biblical material >_>
I still think God should have been Baby all along. Riding with the boys taking care of them, rather than the way they went with chuck.
I have an interesting theory about chucks villain arc. When the darkness/ amara is released and connects with Dean she eventually becomes more empathetic and eventually becomes a good being. Then makes things unbalanced and chuck becomes the more “bad” half of the two.
The big g being the big bad is actually well established in gnostic lore.
When you brought up Asmodeus, my brain made me think of the Asmodeus Vivzie made. Now I kind of want to see how Sam and Dean would interact with characters from Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel
so a question i would love to know your opinion on is the limits of the first blade like could it kill a leviathan is there anything immune to it ?
Except for Eve, I thought War was the most underutilized villain on the show. Given what he embodies (war, conflict, mass violence, etc.), War could have been a more significant threat during the War in Heaven (both in primordial times and during the Angel Civil War).
I was quite fond of the Leviathans. One antagonist (which the wiki counts as a big bad) I felt fell flat was Rowena