I own a 2022 MX-5, it's the GT trim in Australia which is the next level up. I agree with all the statements, but having an open top really makes up for the engine size the some of the practicality. If you need more space, (yawn) more storage (yawn) then the BRZ makes sense, but if you still like seat-of-the-pants old school driving, flicking through gears and corners with wind in the hair, and a smile on your face, the Mazda just has to win.
@@MrVeritas1026 i daily an older mx5 nb and its perfectly practical for most jobs even got 4 rims with tyres in the car once and can fit shopping just fine truly a great little car fitting things in the car the skys the limit
i’ve driven both, the gr86 feels more like a sports car and it corners better than a miata. The miata is setup to be more of a GT car with softer suspension and more body roll, although that does make it more “fun”.
@@BN99239 lmfao no, a 200 dollar piece of metal will not solve the fact that one is a convertible. Meaning is has less chassis rigidity compared to a coupe. But you would need to be a high level driver to know the difference. To each their own.
@@armandocardona6975 lol no you don't need to be a "high level" driver. I've driven it back to back after getting antisway bars on mine and it's almost eliminated body roll. If I put switch to lowering springs I'm sure that would even be better. If anything just the sway bars alone are already better than a stock BRZ. If you haven't done it to compare, don't assume.
I have a Club with the Bilstein shocks and aftermarket stiffer swaybars front and back, lowering springs and 215 PS4Ss and the cornering is stupidly good. Chassis flex is a non issue, there is none at any cornering speed that I'm willing to push it to.
It’s a compromised Miata yet it’s faster in a straight line than the Miata and is faster on the track. Makes sense. Reality is that the Miata is overpriced and underpowered
@@ak740_ Yes, the GR86 acceleration and lap times are better on paper. But in the real world nobody races them and needs the last tenths of a second. Miata is more fun and feels faster inside.
The Miata is what you want to drive on a back road with the top down. Opening the windows in the BRZ isn’t the same. I had so many great days driving around with the top down, it’s not all about performance (although the Miata is no slouch).
@@jennatyler8144Search Toyota 86 or GR86, it's the same car as Subaru BRZ. This is essentially a Toyota built car with a Subaru boxer engine, u can search for the interview from the director of GR86 in Japan and how they made sure the subaru parts they used are improved up to Toyota standards, especially the engine. I prefer the miata as well but I can't deny 86's quality.
What some great cars. Love this rwd, manual sports car comparison. Great job on this Scott! I prefer the more oversteer handling of the GR86 over the BRZ. Miata is the perfect road car if you can fit in it. I prefer the sound of the Miata engine and its more rev happy nature. I would go Miata here over the BRZ
Here in the Uk, the MX5 is also available with the delightful 1.5 L engine. Less powerful than the 2 L, but when you consider the car weighs so little, it suits the whole ethos of lightweight open topped sports cars. Its supposed to have a 7500rpm Redline, but the engine revs so freely and sweetly, you could forget its got a limiter on it at all. When i purchased my Sep 2001 Sports Venture Edition, i didn't even consider the 2 L engine, what's the point. Im not after outright performance. A true British sports car, from the 1970s and early 80s, always had a small capacity, naturally aspirated engine. The likes of the MG Midget, and Triumph Spitfire, spring to mind. Small capacity, underpowered engines, connected to a car that weighs so little. A recipe for ultimate driving thrills. The 1500cc engine is a delight, its all you really need in a car that weighs as little as the current MX5 If your after more power, then maybe the MD is not the car for you.
Totally agree these two are both lighter comparing to lots of other sport cars, I don’t understand why modern sport cars get so much weight like 911, M2, they got more power more fast but just too over weight probably too complicated while BRZ/Miata more purely and affordable to us. Own BRZ purely because of it is more practical it can easily fit two kids in while Miata you can only fit one😅
Peter, you're info is behind the times. I own a 2022 nd, the 2l had a revision in 2019, it now has the same free-revving nature as the 1.5l, and that 1.5l isn't available anymore anyway!
@@Dr.IanPlect The 1.5 engine is certainly still for sale here in the Uk. Its better on fuel, cheaper to insure, and offers just enough power for the best drive of your life. I recon only a Lotus Elise could offer a better driving experience
@@peterlewis3540 Yes, just after posting that comment I went to the UK website (I'm British living in the UK!) and the 1.5l was back up. For a while some trim levels only showed the 2l so I thought the 1.5 was phased out. Fuel - a few mpg difference, not much Insurance - the MX-5 is among the least expensive cars to insure in the country, again the difference would be small. My insurance is £300; 40's, full ncd, no points or endorsements Power - I completely get the 'driving pleasure first, performance second' ethos. Yet the 2l delivers that _and_ has that great punch the 1.5l lacks. And as I stated already, in 2019 Mazda reworked the 2l making it more powerful, higher and freer revving; it's just as characterful as the 1.5l. Dynamics - Remember I'm talking the 2l sport tech with Bilstein dampers, this spec name has changed. Too firmly damped, too soft spring rates. The former needs softer, the latter firmer to improve the setup overall. Nonetheless it's still good - Steering is electric and as is typical, it lacks the finer details of feedback that a good hyd. setup offers. Response is good but not great, no doubt the Bridgestone Potenzas on mine play a role here, not the best tyre, but it's OEM. Ratio is too slow, too much rotation required to negotiate tight bends. - Gearbox; SUPERB in regard to shift action, slick, precise, mechanical - Have you heard of KPC? Kinematic Posture Control, standard on my car. It brakes the outside rear wheel slightly on tight turns to reduce roll. You notice it nipping away and tightening the line. ----------- Overall a good, but not brilliant handling car.
The gr86/brz has dreadful throttle response and some rev hang (worse in the brz) This is a deal breaker for me. The ND throttle calibration is way more natural and linear and has instant response. The ND also shifts better.
Throttle response in modern cars (generally) is so shit, that I prefer my old 97' Opel Astra F for spirited driving, to most newer cars i drive (and Astra F objectively said is a dog shit car for driving, which is not a great testament for new cars). Of course it does not compare to NB mx-5 I also have. This engine response makes this car feel so much faster then it really is.
They make plug in throttle adjusters. It always a top mod for any & every car. Maybe super cars don’t need it but even my Alfa needed a bit of adjustment to throttle response. My 22 BRZ doesn’t rev hang might b older generation
The toyota 86 will not give you a huge smile but the mazda will.Theses cars are night and day difference.The mazdas comparison would be the new gr 86 massive difference to the gt86
If I park a Miata in front of my office people will just think I’m having a mid-life crisis. If I park a BRZ in front of my office people will think I’m having a mental breakdown and am regressing back to being a child.
I’m 6 foot as well and my head is about an inch off from the roof with it up. I have longer legs than torso though. For taller drivers the 2019+ ND2 with the tilting/telescopic wheel is a game changer
Personally, the BRZ felt much more like a sports car to drive and more powerful feeling. The Mazda has a great build quality though, but it feels 'TINY' to sit in and also less 'masculine' if that's of any care. I couldn't get enough leg room and it felt claustrophobic. Both good cars to be honest, but to me they weren't directly comparable in this way. For example, the Mazda has nothing behind you, it's 2 seats only, whereas the cabin in the BRZ/GR86 makes it feel like you're in a car, not just a cockpit (even if the seats are tiny). Overall, the Mazda feels more 'premium'.. but the BRZ was a better drive (and I can fit in it).
I owned the GR86 and sold it to buy a Miata. The GR86 feels more like a serious car and was a bit more confidence inspiring around corners. It is more practical especially with back seats. But the Miata is more fun to drive. It has a playful personality to how it drives and puts a smile on my face more often than the GR86. Miata has a more premium interior, better manual, and much better gas mileage. Issue is the car is small. If you’re above like 6’2”, probably going to default to the twins.
Don't worry too much about the handling or cornering or whatever other people are saying. You really can just get anti-sway bars for $200 and it would feel more planted around corners than a stock 86 without sacrificing ride quality. If you want more hardcore, then get springs, which would sacrifice ride comfort but if you need it, you need it.
@@BN99239 For 2023 Mazda added Kinematic Posture Control. which applies subtle braking to the inside rear wheel through fast turns. It makes the steering feel more linear, reduces any body roll, and contributes to the general stability. Mazda has addressed this problem on the 23 model. As you said models older than this can simply ad anti- sway bars for $200 bucks.
@@emirramos990 Yeah I know what KPC is. Mazda has this habit of renaming existing technology. This is simply brake torque vectoring that's been around for decades. I have a 2021 ND2 with antisway bars and when I drove the 2023 with KPC, it's definitely got more body roll than my setup. I don't have springs or coilovers or anything, just literally $200 antisway bars. Aside from this, KPC is disabled when traction control is disabled, which is a dumb implementation in my book since everyone disables traction control on a track, rendering KPC completely useless in the environment that it's needed most. So pretty much KPC is only useful for casual drives on public roads, and it will wear your brake pads faster and probably unevenly as well because it just has to. That's what it physically does over a long period of time.
MX-5 all day long if you want to drive hard. Drove one recently and it’s excellent. BRZ if you need something more practical and don’t intend to drive it hard. Reliability is a legit concern for the old and new BRZ. I know. I spun a bearing in the prior gen cruising in 6th gear at around 85 mph after some spirited street driving. Not what I expect from a Japanese sports car. Out of warranty and cost me over 11k. New engines are reportedly even less reliable. Get an extended warranty and avoid hard driving and the track if you can’t afford a new engine. Or just get the MX-5. Or save for something more purpose built with back seats if you need practicality. You’ve been warned.
I have owned my BRZ, same as tested WR Blue, S, manual, since October. Absolutely love it. Hardtop, more room, especially as a 2 seater and easily better looking than the ragtop or hardtop Mazda IMO. I read tests saying how noisy they were but to be honest, I don't find this to be the case. As for the missing safety gear? No problem, the manual has more than enough without being a "Nanny" car, thanks.
it’s great to have a “pick”at the end of the video, but I think the grand take-away here is : we are awfully fortunate to have these cars available right now !! For how much longer ? who knows . You all : please get out there and buy these cars!
The BRZ is not available in Europe, but the GR86 which is pretty much the same vehicle is available here. However, the GR86 is sadly not available in all European countries; for example, it’s not sold in Romania. The MX-5 is available in more European countries, and that includes Romania.
Interesting how in the test you claim the miata has better engine and is nicer to drive, and then at the end give props to Subaru for it's driving capabilities xD. Nah, it's the MX-5 for me.
Well one is actually a convertible/targa so not really the same comparison here since that is a major feature that the MX-5 have that the 86 cannot no matter what. Also, that flat 4 is a dinosaur and gets like 20mpg or something stupid whereas the Mazda gets like 38mpg.
@@BN99239 "Mazda says the average age for recent buyers of its MX-5 convertible is 54. Four out of five owners are male, and three-quarters of them are married, with about one in three aged 60 and over and retired" I can't find data for all owners, but at least for new owners it is. Another thing I don't have data on, but have major hunch on, is that they're all crazy too and get ultra defensive on the internet.
@@Jez4prez1 It's tough to find accurate statistics on something like this because like you've said, I can't imagine Mazda having data on the used car market and a lot of younger owners do buy them used. Maybe 1 in 10 are over 50 years old when ever I see one on the road. Either way, I fail to see how someone's age has anything to say about a car, since a lot of people over 50 also own super cars and hyper cars.
My 2023 BRZ gets 32 mpg driving back and forth two hours to a seasonal place in the summer. Mostly two lane rural highways, I can get on it in places and there's a lot of small towns to slow down for but enough 62 mph sweet spot driving to get good mileage. The horizontally opposed Boxer engine with low center of gravity and minimal vibration is at least as high tech as an inline four. I seriously considered an RF Miata but for me there's like three days a year I might want the top off. Not being able to carry a long gun is a deal breaker too. The practicality of 2+2 seating with a fold down back seat and slight performance advantages made the BRZ a better car for me even just as a summer car.
Having made the choice to buy an MX5, the BRZ wasn’t really considered as I wanted top down motoring. And finding out that the manuals lacked the EyeSight technology was a shock. So surely the BRZ can’t be a better car lacking some fundamental safety features? (Subaru may fix this soon).
You think Ferrari and lambo owners choose those cars for more space? Really? If ya need more space get an SUV. Sports cars are ,mainly for weekend fun .
All this video says is buy the new GR 86, and not MX-5 Marketing it is. But if we have reward the manufacturer with our precious dollar? How do we choose? Several month before I had make that decision. And here is my conclusion. Pick the MX-5 Suspension quality --- MX-5 wins Check out the article -> Autoblog's Mazda MX-5 Miata Suspension Deep Dive Meanwhile a lot of stamped steel under the GR86/BRZ ... Savage Geese came to same conclusion as well in his video. Engine refinement -> MX-5 MX-5 ND2's engine refinement, will let you google that yourself. In brief, ND2 has short Ultra-light” pistons, lighter connecting rods, and a new high-lift crankshaft, dual mass flywheels. Revs beautifully. Toyota didn't want to invest time to improve their 2.0L, so just threw in 2.4. IMO lazy attempt. The last 2.0L has flat curve issues, which could have improved, and refined. Design --> MX-5 MX-5 RF in targa top, isn't that classy? In soft top form, you can cruise under the star light .... GR-86 is a coupe. The execution is good. In terms of sophistication and class, the MX-5 should be win, right? Toyota won't give you a convertible, unless you go up to Lexus LC money. Where is the Toyota MR3? MR2 was great. GR 86 styling nice but not great. Chassis - MX-5 again The MX-5 exists in a version called 990s Meaning curb weights 990kg. Don't take that lightly. Toyota needs to try harder to trim the fat from the chassis. Remember Lotus 7, now Catham 7 Throw it around the mountain, and you will realize what a light chassis at under 500 kg can do? Body paint ---> MX-5 Why? Toyota saved the good paint for their Lexus Marque. MX-5 has some truely amazing paint. The soul red alone has more depth and mica in it. Toyota can do some amazing paint but didn't provide. Dash/Dials Speedo ---> MX-5 Why? Is digital dash good? Think Leica and classic analog. Personally I think a needle and dial is easy to read. And you can see the rate of change with the needle. Not so with digital, digits jumping .... Plus digital don't last. Ask first gen Prius owners. Anyway enough said.
The complaints about the torque curve are because you haven't spent enough time in the car to 'tune' the ECU. Whenever i change the battery on my 86, the ECU gets reset and I get left with a Corolla driving experience for the next hundred kms
A BRZ should have a downsize 1.6 with turbo from Levorg and pistol steering wheel with artificial-horizon electronic instrument display from Vortex; the next MX5 will come with a pop-up lamps from Vision Study and a supercharged 2.0 SkyactivX.
Not sure really - the power in the BRZ feels excellent. It could be more of course, but it definetely doesn't 'need' it stock (as long as you get the manual).
Progam a steller AI to rearrange the MX5 to be powered by the BRZ boxer engine! Can you even imagine how WONDERFUL that could be? A 225hp boxer powered Miata? Weighing 2300 llbs A Porsche killer! Notice I said "rearrange" because it would take a serious redesign from the ground up no doubt...but you know how AIs can merge things? Toss out the I4 2 liter and have the AI squeeze into the design the boxer engine ....Hey while we are it? Have the AI give the 2.4 liter boxer engine any of the Mazda tech that might improve anything? Like the Skyactive? One thing I love about my ND is the option to run any of thr three grades of fuel idk if the BRZ knows that trick?
If you ask me the MX5 is a lot more seriously engineered car it just looks and feels like a ground up design by engineers that loved their work and had enough free reign to make their goal as opposed to the twins (brx/86) which just use "normal" production car engineering explaing the WEIGHT difference I think...I think of the MX5 more as a scaled down budget REAL purpose built sports car...on the other hand DAMN there have been times I sure would have LOVED to have the back seat the twins have ....not for human passengers but for my faithful dog who is just too big for Miata pasenger seat AND for other cargo in general which the Miata seriously fails at hauling....but it would not be worth giving up all the rest of MX5 goodness!
I placed an order for a Miata Club with the Recaro BBS and Brembo package a few weeks back (in the US) - cannot wait to get it! For me the GR86 is good if you only are only able to have one car but if you are lucky enough to have a practical car for daily work then for me i had to have the Miata for 100% pleasure drives!
Seems a bit silly to compare 2 inexpensive manual rear wheel drive enthusiast cars, and then give the nod based on storage and space. I guess a Ford Expedition would top both of these.
Won't happen, Mazda a firm on all of their cars that touchscreen while moving is distracting. Once you learn the dial after living with the car for a few weeks it becomes second nature and faster imo.
Good luck in finding a BRZ or GR86.i went 2 a local dearller & was told they had' nt had one in over 1 yr. said they could order one, but could not promise any better results. Of course really was not the determining factor.
I plan to finally indulge myself & buy one of these in 2024 - just haven't decided which yet. For the MX-5/Miata I prefer the RF version over the "Rag Top" version though. I love my 2022 Mazda CX-30 (my first automatic in 40+ years of driving), but I do miss driving a manual.
@@garrettstupperware3754 I'm leaning towards a 2024+ model-year Mazda MX-5 RF, which will be updated/refreshed/improved versus the outgoing 2023 version. I need to go test drive both though & see how comfortable my 6ft2in height body fits into each of them. 😄
@@dystopia-usa In reality on the MX5 there are big significant differences between the ND3 and ND2 besides of the multimedia system, in my opinion. I have been in the same debate but the RF is way more expensive than the BRZ here in Canada. Both engines seems to be good but BRZ seems to be also way thirstier
Comparing the 2 is a little odd, but understandable. Both fall under the same category, so I see why you would. This being said, they aim at different demographs. The Subi is still trying to hit up the late 20's-30's while the Miata is aiming at late 30's-60's. Yes, demograph is way more vast. Before anyone starts crucifying me about how they're 19 or 20 and own a Miata, you're probably the 1%-.5% that actually care about driving. Remember, they have to cater to their markets. Stats show the vast majority of Miata owners are in their golden years and retired. You only have to look at the local Miata club to confirm my statement. :-) The Subi on the other hand are driven by "hooligans". The up and coming Fathers or "go-getters" that "need" a sports car to make them feel better or show off. So it's no surprise that this review falls in the hands of the Subi. Now, if it was actually done proper and you do take the platforms to the extreme they were designed for, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us "drivers" will pick the Miata. By simply changing out the shocks/springs and rollbars of the Miata, you'll get a vastly better handling vehicle than the Subi. The Subi you can't do too much more to it since it's already topping off at its limits. Why? Because their suspension architecture is different. Can't compare a Macpherson strut layout to a Double Wishbone suspension. There are limits. So yes, for the common person, this comparsion will go towards the Subi. For the rest of us 1%-.5%, the Miata is the one you want. :-)
" I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us "drivers" will pick the Miata." Miata fans are literally the most arrogant people ever. You are not the determiner of what a "driving enthusiast" wants just because you like Miatas lol. The Gr86 is already a better track car and can easily be modded to continue being superior on track. The miata is superior at "auto cross", and then having convertible option. They are actually quite different cars, and people will buy them for different reasons.
im 30, and i was cross-shopping between the 2. I ended up with the 86, as its superior leg room and ergonomics was the dealer breaker. Both are fun RWD manual sportcars, but 86/brz is more useful as a daily. Mx5 was far too small and cramped for me.
The Targa Top MX-5 should be a more comparable to the BRZ than the Soft-top. But the base Targa Top would set you back at almost $50K. The BRZ is a much better value if you want a Coupe. Otherwise, the Soft-top MX-5 is the one if you just want a convertible.
Mx5 all day every day, even when I got a million € to spend,
I own a 2022 MX-5, it's the GT trim in Australia which is the next level up. I agree with all the statements, but having an open top really makes up for the engine size the some of the practicality. If you need more space, (yawn) more storage (yawn) then the BRZ makes sense, but if you still like seat-of-the-pants old school driving, flicking through gears and corners with wind in the hair, and a smile on your face, the Mazda just has to win.
I have the 2022 Mazda MX-5 RF GT Miata, and I agree with you. However, I believe Miata owners might want to have an everyday car also.
@@MrVeritas1026 i daily an older mx5 nb and its perfectly practical for most jobs even got 4 rims with tyres in the car once and can fit shopping just fine truly a great little car fitting things in the car the skys the limit
i’ve driven both, the gr86 feels more like a sports car and it corners better than a miata. The miata is setup to be more of a GT car with softer suspension and more body roll, although that does make it more “fun”.
$200 aftermarket anti-sway bars and it's just as good. If you track, you might want some springs but that's about it.
@@BN99239 lmfao no, a 200 dollar piece of metal will not solve the fact that one is a convertible. Meaning is has less chassis rigidity compared to a coupe. But you would need to be a high level driver to know the difference. To each their own.
@@armandocardona6975 lol no you don't need to be a "high level" driver. I've driven it back to back after getting antisway bars on mine and it's almost eliminated body roll. If I put switch to lowering springs I'm sure that would even be better. If anything just the sway bars alone are already better than a stock BRZ. If you haven't done it to compare, don't assume.
I have a Club with the Bilstein shocks and aftermarket stiffer swaybars front and back, lowering springs and 215 PS4Ss and the cornering is stupidly good. Chassis flex is a non issue, there is none at any cornering speed that I'm willing to push it to.
@@62Sketch yup, exactly
Obvioulsy the miata, the gr86 is a comprimised version of the miata, its if u need the extra space but want a miata
It’s a compromised Miata yet it’s faster in a straight line than the Miata and is faster on the track. Makes sense. Reality is that the Miata is overpriced and underpowered
@@ak740_ Yes, the GR86 acceleration and lap times are better on paper. But in the real world nobody races them and needs the last tenths of a second. Miata is more fun and feels faster inside.
Oh you're talking about the MX5 as that's what we call it in Australia 😜😜
@@Querlenkerbuchse what are you talking about lmfao track days are filled with gr86s
Not sure what you mean there. The Mazda feels more premium, but the BRZ/GR86 was definitely better to drive for me (and I can actually fit in it).
The Miata is what you want to drive on a back road with the top down. Opening the windows in the BRZ isn’t the same. I had so many great days driving around with the top down, it’s not all about performance (although the Miata is no slouch).
Yeah, until you want to carry more than a Mars Bar as luggage of you’re more than 5 foot tall. I looked at both and bought the BRZ.
And age old question. Still has no simple clear cut answer....
My opinion: Convertible or slight luxury? Miata. The rest (power, technology, practicality, etc): BRZ
Miata is always the answer.
@Shawn ZX the purest part of what these cars are about= fun.
=Mx5.
Mazda wins
Not even close, a covertible wins everytime along with Japanese made quality.
Which one isn’t Japanese?
I'd never choose a Subaru over Mazda or Toyota. The MX-5 is by far the best roadster available on earth for the money.
@@jennatyler8144Search Toyota 86 or GR86, it's the same car as Subaru BRZ. This is essentially a Toyota built car with a Subaru boxer engine, u can search for the interview from the director of GR86 in Japan and how they made sure the subaru parts they used are improved up to Toyota standards, especially the engine. I prefer the miata as well but I can't deny 86's quality.
What some great cars. Love this rwd, manual sports car comparison. Great job on this Scott! I prefer the more oversteer handling of the GR86 over the BRZ. Miata is the perfect road car if you can fit in it. I prefer the sound of the Miata engine and its more rev happy nature. I would go Miata here over the BRZ
Here in the Uk, the MX5 is also available with the delightful 1.5 L engine.
Less powerful than the 2 L, but when you consider the car weighs so little, it suits the whole ethos of lightweight open topped sports cars.
Its supposed to have a 7500rpm Redline, but the engine revs so freely and sweetly, you could forget its got a limiter on it at all.
When i purchased my Sep 2001 Sports Venture Edition, i didn't even consider the 2 L engine, what's the point. Im not after outright performance.
A true British sports car, from the 1970s and early 80s, always had a small capacity, naturally aspirated engine.
The likes of the MG Midget, and Triumph Spitfire, spring to mind.
Small capacity, underpowered engines, connected to a car that weighs so little. A recipe for ultimate driving thrills.
The 1500cc engine is a delight, its all you really need in a car that weighs as little as the current MX5
If your after more power, then maybe the MD is not the car for you.
Totally agree but the new 2 liter engine also manage 7500 rpms and you can struggle the rears tyres on corners making it more fun.
Totally agree these two are both lighter comparing to lots of other sport cars, I don’t understand why modern sport cars get so much weight like 911, M2, they got more power more fast but just too over weight probably too complicated while BRZ/Miata more purely and affordable to us. Own BRZ purely because of it is more practical it can easily fit two kids in while Miata you can only fit one😅
Peter, you're info is behind the times. I own a 2022 nd, the 2l had a revision in 2019, it now has the same free-revving nature as the 1.5l, and that 1.5l isn't available anymore anyway!
@@Dr.IanPlect The 1.5 engine is certainly still for sale here in the Uk.
Its better on fuel, cheaper to insure, and offers just enough power for the best drive of your life.
I recon only a Lotus Elise could offer a better driving experience
@@peterlewis3540 Yes, just after posting that comment I went to the UK website (I'm British living in the UK!) and the 1.5l was back up. For a while some trim levels only showed the 2l so I thought the 1.5 was phased out.
Fuel
- a few mpg difference, not much
Insurance
- the MX-5 is among the least expensive cars to insure in the country, again the difference would be small. My insurance is £300; 40's, full ncd, no points or endorsements
Power
- I completely get the 'driving pleasure first, performance second' ethos. Yet the 2l delivers that _and_ has that great punch the 1.5l lacks. And as I stated already, in 2019 Mazda reworked the 2l making it more powerful, higher and freer revving; it's just as characterful as the 1.5l.
Dynamics
- Remember I'm talking the 2l sport tech with Bilstein dampers, this spec name has changed. Too firmly damped, too soft spring rates. The former needs softer, the latter firmer to improve the setup overall. Nonetheless it's still good
- Steering is electric and as is typical, it lacks the finer details of feedback that a good hyd. setup offers. Response is good but not great, no doubt the Bridgestone Potenzas on mine play a role here, not the best tyre, but it's OEM. Ratio is too slow, too much rotation required to negotiate tight bends.
- Gearbox; SUPERB in regard to shift action, slick, precise, mechanical
- Have you heard of KPC? Kinematic Posture Control, standard on my car. It brakes the outside rear wheel slightly on tight turns to reduce roll. You notice it nipping away and tightening the line.
-----------
Overall a good, but not brilliant handling car.
For me Mazda wins (just for it's manual shifter)
Was considering a 22/23 Brz or 86 then found out about the RTV issues that can lead to engine failure
The gr86/brz has dreadful throttle response and some rev hang (worse in the brz) This is a deal breaker for me. The ND throttle calibration is way more natural and linear and has instant response. The ND also shifts better.
Throttle response in modern cars (generally) is so shit, that I prefer my old 97' Opel Astra F for spirited driving, to most newer cars i drive (and Astra F objectively said is a dog shit car for driving, which is not a great testament for new cars). Of course it does not compare to NB mx-5 I also have. This engine response makes this car feel so much faster then it really is.
They make plug in throttle adjusters. It always a top mod for any & every car. Maybe super cars don’t need it but even my Alfa needed a bit of adjustment to throttle response.
My 22 BRZ doesn’t rev hang might b older generation
@@TrojanRabbit521 On rev hang, it really depends on which car you came from. Your BRZ may have less rev hang than many cars but it's still there.
Get your foot dyno tuned
The ND also has double wishbone front rather than struts and gets 34 to 37 MPG in mixed driving.
Hats off to your DP. That opening shot looked fantastic. It was like watching a film set!
The toyota 86 will not give you a huge smile but the mazda will.Theses cars are night and day difference.The mazdas comparison would be the new gr 86 massive difference to the gt86
If I park a Miata in front of my office people will just think I’m having a mid-life crisis. If I park a BRZ in front of my office people will think I’m having a mental breakdown and am regressing back to being a child.
Get both
@@張雲程the right answer🗿
@@張雲程exactly
If you’re buying a car based on what other people think of you, that’s a shame. Buy a car because you like it. Be an individual.
@@cptndave1 If you think most people don’t consider image when buying a car then you know nothing about marketing.
If you're tall, the MX-5 might not even be an option.
I'm 6-foot and my head touches the roof.
damn, really instrested in getting the car but being 6'1.5" I guess that may be an issue lmao
I’m 6 foot as well and my head is about an inch off from the roof with it up. I have longer legs than torso though. For taller drivers the 2019+ ND2 with the tilting/telescopic wheel is a game changer
What roof?
Wow, what perfect timing to have this video come up while I'm trying to decide between these two
Personally, the BRZ felt much more like a sports car to drive and more powerful feeling. The Mazda has a great build quality though, but it feels 'TINY' to sit in and also less 'masculine' if that's of any care. I couldn't get enough leg room and it felt claustrophobic. Both good cars to be honest, but to me they weren't directly comparable in this way. For example, the Mazda has nothing behind you, it's 2 seats only, whereas the cabin in the BRZ/GR86 makes it feel like you're in a car, not just a cockpit (even if the seats are tiny). Overall, the Mazda feels more 'premium'.. but the BRZ was a better drive (and I can fit in it).
I owned the GR86 and sold it to buy a Miata. The GR86 feels more like a serious car and was a bit more confidence inspiring around corners. It is more practical especially with back seats. But the Miata is more fun to drive. It has a playful personality to how it drives and puts a smile on my face more often than the GR86. Miata has a more premium interior, better manual, and much better gas mileage. Issue is the car is small. If you’re above like 6’2”, probably going to default to the twins.
Don't worry too much about the handling or cornering or whatever other people are saying. You really can just get anti-sway bars for $200 and it would feel more planted around corners than a stock 86 without sacrificing ride quality. If you want more hardcore, then get springs, which would sacrifice ride comfort but if you need it, you need it.
@@BN99239 For 2023 Mazda added Kinematic Posture Control. which applies subtle braking to the inside rear wheel through fast turns. It makes the steering feel more linear, reduces any body roll, and contributes to the general stability. Mazda has addressed this problem on the 23 model. As you said models older than this can simply ad anti-
sway bars for $200 bucks.
@@emirramos990 Yeah I know what KPC is. Mazda has this habit of renaming existing technology. This is simply brake torque vectoring that's been around for decades. I have a 2021 ND2 with antisway bars and when I drove the 2023 with KPC, it's definitely got more body roll than my setup. I don't have springs or coilovers or anything, just literally $200 antisway bars. Aside from this, KPC is disabled when traction control is disabled, which is a dumb implementation in my book since everyone disables traction control on a track, rendering KPC completely useless in the environment that it's needed most.
So pretty much KPC is only useful for casual drives on public roads, and it will wear your brake pads faster and probably unevenly as well because it just has to. That's what it physically does over a long period of time.
MX-5 all day long if you want to drive hard. Drove one recently and it’s excellent. BRZ if you need something more practical and don’t intend to drive it hard. Reliability is a legit concern for the old and new BRZ. I know. I spun a bearing in the prior gen cruising in 6th gear at around 85 mph after some spirited street driving. Not what I expect from a Japanese sports car. Out of warranty and cost me over 11k. New engines are reportedly even less reliable. Get an extended warranty and avoid hard driving and the track if you can’t afford a new engine. Or just get the MX-5. Or save for something more purpose built with back seats if you need practicality. You’ve been warned.
The Subaru couldn't hold a candle to the MX-5's superb exterior design, reliability, and fuel economy.
I have owned my BRZ, same as tested WR Blue, S, manual,
since October.
Absolutely love it.
Hardtop, more room, especially as a 2 seater and easily
better looking than the ragtop or hardtop Mazda IMO.
I read tests saying how noisy they were but to be
honest, I don't find this to be the case.
As for the missing safety gear?
No problem, the manual has more than enough without being a "Nanny" car, thanks.
Part of the noise is the frameless windows … try a bit of finesse of the door rubbers and bend the glass in a bit.
@@J_S209
That is not the problem, it's mainly road noise,
but as I said, does not bother me.
Great little car and good looking to boot.
it’s great to have a “pick”at the end of the video, but I think the grand take-away here is : we are awfully fortunate to have these cars available right now !!
For how much longer ? who knows .
You all : please get out there and buy these cars!
BRZ looks much more solid, design wise.
BRZ looks really good, would interesting in a drop top
The BRZ is not available in Europe, but the GR86 which is pretty much the same vehicle is available here. However, the GR86 is sadly not available in all European countries; for example, it’s not sold in Romania.
The MX-5 is available in more European countries, and that includes Romania.
Bine ca nu stau in România și am putut lua un BRZ 😁
Well here in Germany, the GR86 is very limited and all units are already sold. Thanks to EU and there emission laws, cars like this will disappear....
@@michaeltuchte8575 Here in the UK, all units were sold out in just 90 minutes.
Interesting how in the test you claim the miata has better engine and is nicer to drive, and then at the end give props to Subaru for it's driving capabilities xD.
Nah, it's the MX-5 for me.
Well one is actually a convertible/targa so not really the same comparison here since that is a major feature that the MX-5 have that the 86 cannot no matter what. Also, that flat 4 is a dinosaur and gets like 20mpg or something stupid whereas the Mazda gets like 38mpg.
Miata is driven by dinosaurs tho
@@Jez4prez1 that's not even a true statement.
@@BN99239 "Mazda says the average age for recent buyers of its MX-5 convertible is 54. Four out of five owners are male, and three-quarters of them are married, with about one in three aged 60 and over and retired"
I can't find data for all owners, but at least for new owners it is.
Another thing I don't have data on, but have major hunch on, is that they're all crazy too and get ultra defensive on the internet.
@@Jez4prez1 It's tough to find accurate statistics on something like this because like you've said, I can't imagine Mazda having data on the used car market and a lot of younger owners do buy them used. Maybe 1 in 10 are over 50 years old when ever I see one on the road.
Either way, I fail to see how someone's age has anything to say about a car, since a lot of people over 50 also own super cars and hyper cars.
My 2023 BRZ gets 32 mpg driving back and forth two hours to a seasonal place in the summer. Mostly two lane rural highways, I can get on it in places and there's a lot of small towns to slow down for but enough 62 mph sweet spot driving to get good mileage. The horizontally opposed Boxer engine with low center of gravity and minimal vibration is at least as high tech as an inline four.
I seriously considered an RF Miata but for me there's like three days a year I might want the top off. Not being able to carry a long gun is a deal breaker too. The practicality of 2+2 seating with a fold down back seat and slight performance advantages made the BRZ a better car for me even just as a summer car.
I own a 2022 BRZ as my only car. I think I would have bought the MX-5 instead if it were a second car.
Having made the choice to buy an MX5, the BRZ wasn’t really considered as I wanted top down motoring.
And finding out that the manuals lacked the EyeSight technology was a shock.
So surely the BRZ can’t be a better car lacking some fundamental safety features? (Subaru may fix this soon).
You think Ferrari and lambo owners choose those cars for more space? Really? If ya need more space get an SUV. Sports cars are ,mainly for weekend fun .
yes habibi. Are you Mandaean?
@@joebiden6163 ...No, I am a spirit animal.
All this video says is buy the new GR 86, and not MX-5
Marketing it is.
But if we have reward the manufacturer with our precious dollar?
How do we choose?
Several month before I had make that decision.
And here is my conclusion.
Pick the MX-5
Suspension quality --- MX-5 wins
Check out the article -> Autoblog's Mazda MX-5 Miata Suspension Deep Dive
Meanwhile a lot of stamped steel under the GR86/BRZ ...
Savage Geese came to same conclusion as well in his video.
Engine refinement -> MX-5
MX-5 ND2's engine refinement, will let you google that yourself.
In brief, ND2 has short Ultra-light” pistons, lighter connecting rods, and a new high-lift crankshaft, dual mass flywheels.
Revs beautifully. Toyota didn't want to invest time to improve their 2.0L, so just threw in 2.4. IMO lazy attempt.
The last 2.0L has flat curve issues, which could have improved, and refined.
Design --> MX-5
MX-5 RF in targa top, isn't that classy?
In soft top form, you can cruise under the star light ....
GR-86 is a coupe. The execution is good.
In terms of sophistication and class, the MX-5 should be win, right?
Toyota won't give you a convertible, unless you go up to Lexus LC money.
Where is the Toyota MR3? MR2 was great. GR 86 styling nice but not great.
Chassis - MX-5 again
The MX-5 exists in a version called 990s
Meaning curb weights 990kg.
Don't take that lightly.
Toyota needs to try harder to trim the fat from the chassis.
Remember Lotus 7, now Catham 7
Throw it around the mountain, and you will realize what a light chassis at under 500 kg can do?
Body paint ---> MX-5
Why?
Toyota saved the good paint for their Lexus Marque.
MX-5 has some truely amazing paint.
The soul red alone has more depth and mica in it.
Toyota can do some amazing paint but didn't provide.
Dash/Dials Speedo ---> MX-5
Why?
Is digital dash good? Think Leica and classic analog.
Personally I think a needle and dial is easy to read.
And you can see the rate of change with the needle.
Not so with digital, digits jumping ....
Plus digital don't last. Ask first gen Prius owners.
Anyway enough said.
As far as looks go, MX5 wins by a long long way!
The original 86 looks far more aggressive. The GR 86 has been softened.
Ones a roadster the other is not. No comparison. Not the same league. Review each car based on its own merits.
The complaints about the torque curve are because you haven't spent enough time in the car to 'tune' the ECU. Whenever i change the battery on my 86, the ECU gets reset and I get left with a Corolla driving experience for the next hundred kms
A BRZ should have a downsize 1.6 with turbo from Levorg and pistol steering wheel with artificial-horizon electronic instrument display from Vortex; the next MX5 will come with a pop-up lamps from Vision Study and a supercharged 2.0 SkyactivX.
Not sure really - the power in the BRZ feels excellent. It could be more of course, but it definetely doesn't 'need' it stock (as long as you get the manual).
Progam a steller AI to rearrange the MX5 to be powered by the BRZ boxer engine! Can you even imagine how WONDERFUL that could be? A 225hp boxer powered Miata? Weighing 2300 llbs A Porsche killer! Notice I said "rearrange" because it would take a serious redesign from the ground up no doubt...but you know how AIs can merge things? Toss out the I4 2 liter and have the AI squeeze into the design the boxer engine ....Hey while we are it? Have the AI give the 2.4 liter boxer engine any of the Mazda tech that might improve anything? Like the Skyactive? One thing I love about my ND is the option to run any of thr three grades of fuel idk if the BRZ knows that trick?
If you ask me the MX5 is a lot more seriously engineered car it just looks and feels like a ground up design by engineers that loved their work and had enough free reign to make their goal as opposed to the twins (brx/86) which just use "normal" production car engineering explaing the WEIGHT difference I think...I think of the MX5 more as a scaled down budget REAL purpose built sports car...on the other hand DAMN there have been times I sure would have LOVED to have the back seat the twins have ....not for human passengers but for my faithful dog who is just too big for Miata pasenger seat AND for other cargo in general which the Miata seriously fails at hauling....but it would not be worth giving up all the rest of MX5 goodness!
I placed an order for a Miata Club with the Recaro BBS and Brembo package a few weeks back (in the US) - cannot wait to get it! For me the GR86 is good if you only are only able to have one car but if you are lucky enough to have a practical car for daily work then for me i had to have the Miata for 100% pleasure drives!
Seems a bit silly to compare 2 inexpensive manual rear wheel drive enthusiast cars, and then give the nod based on storage and space. I guess a Ford Expedition would top both of these.
Once Mazda release the new Miata I’d be leaning to Mazda again (hope they do fully touchscreen)
Won't happen, Mazda a firm on all of their cars that touchscreen while moving is distracting. Once you learn the dial after living with the car for a few weeks it becomes second nature and faster imo.
I hope Mazda do not release the new MX5 with touchscreen for all functions. The physical controls are less distractive.
Good luck in finding a BRZ or GR86.i went 2 a local dearller &
was told they had' nt had one in
over 1 yr. said they could order one,
but could not promise any better
results. Of course really was not the determining factor.
Toyota needs to put that new 3 cylinder turbo 300hp engine in the gr86. Not that would be a hot ticket
I plan to finally indulge myself & buy one of these in 2024 - just haven't decided which yet. For the MX-5/Miata I prefer the RF version over the "Rag Top" version though. I love my 2022 Mazda CX-30 (my first automatic in 40+ years of driving), but I do miss driving a manual.
Same. I still can't decide which one.
@@garrettstupperware3754 I'm leaning towards a 2024+ model-year Mazda MX-5 RF, which will be updated/refreshed/improved versus the outgoing 2023 version. I need to go test drive both though & see how comfortable my 6ft2in height body fits into each of them. 😄
@@dystopia-usa In reality on the MX5 there are big significant differences between the ND3 and ND2 besides of the multimedia system, in my opinion. I have been in the same debate but the RF is way more expensive than the BRZ here in Canada. Both engines seems to be good but BRZ seems to be also way thirstier
@@dystopia-usa The same Thing! And What you decided?
@@СергейАльбертович-ж9г I'm leaning towards a Mazda MX-5/Miata RF 6-MT later this year or early 2025.
BRZ is just a bore-looking car, my friend.
You buy a mx5 because you want a two seat convertible. The Subaru is just another tin top. I can’t see the point of these comparisons
86/brz is far better as a daily. im over 6ft, and could barely fit in the miata. That was enough of a deal breaker for me to get the 86
Comparing the 2 is a little odd, but understandable. Both fall under the same category, so I see why you would. This being said, they aim at different demographs. The Subi is still trying to hit up the late 20's-30's while the Miata is aiming at late 30's-60's. Yes, demograph is way more vast. Before anyone starts crucifying me about how they're 19 or 20 and own a Miata, you're probably the 1%-.5% that actually care about driving. Remember, they have to cater to their markets. Stats show the vast majority of Miata owners are in their golden years and retired. You only have to look at the local Miata club to confirm my statement. :-)
The Subi on the other hand are driven by "hooligans". The up and coming Fathers or "go-getters" that "need" a sports car to make them feel better or show off. So it's no surprise that this review falls in the hands of the Subi.
Now, if it was actually done proper and you do take the platforms to the extreme they were designed for, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us "drivers" will pick the Miata. By simply changing out the shocks/springs and rollbars of the Miata, you'll get a vastly better handling vehicle than the Subi. The Subi you can't do too much more to it since it's already topping off at its limits. Why? Because their suspension architecture is different. Can't compare a Macpherson strut layout to a Double Wishbone suspension. There are limits.
So yes, for the common person, this comparsion will go towards the Subi. For the rest of us 1%-.5%, the Miata is the one you want. :-)
" I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us "drivers" will pick the Miata."
Miata fans are literally the most arrogant people ever. You are not the determiner of what a "driving enthusiast" wants just because you like Miatas lol. The Gr86 is already a better track car and can easily be modded to continue being superior on track. The miata is superior at "auto cross", and then having convertible option. They are actually quite different cars, and people will buy them for different reasons.
im 30, and i was cross-shopping between the 2. I ended up with the 86, as its superior leg room and ergonomics was the dealer breaker. Both are fun RWD manual sportcars, but 86/brz is more useful as a daily. Mx5 was far too small and cramped for me.
@@Jez4prez1the MX-5 is lighter and it's a great track car too
Miata by knockout.
Dial is definitely less distracting
Quality video, thank you! (:
I can't understand a word you're saying
is it his aussie accent, or his lisp? use captions
They’re both too slow.
You can still tune them and beat most expensive sports cars with them, however they're not about numbers. Anyway they're not slow at all lol
Great video thank you for not being the "sit on the fence depends what you like" video. I like hearing what others definitively think! Suscribed.
The Targa Top MX-5 should be a more comparable to the BRZ than the Soft-top.
But the base Targa Top would set you back at almost $50K.
The BRZ is a much better value if you want a Coupe.
Otherwise, the Soft-top MX-5 is the one if you just want a convertible.
They don't make a targa top Miata. They make a retractable hard top, and it's nowhere near $50K
38k for the top trim hard top. @@62Sketch
I would ta take the Subaru as you can't go past a Japanese, rear wheel drive, 4 cylinder coupe.
…you’re making a joke I hope
@@zapzap562 Are you saying that 4 cylinder rear wheel drive Japanese cars do not have a great history? I hope 'YOU'RE' making a joke.
@@MKu64 I think Surtile Cryx is referring to the fact that the MX-5 is also a Japanese, rwd, 4 cylinder car.
@@BN99239 Yep - Possible
That's right.
One is a coupe the other a roadster or ragtop.
Give me a coupe any day.
tough to enjoy the content with his on screen presence or lack of
Tough crowd
He does a. Good job, what are you talking about?
let the cars do the talking.
Me, an intellectual: S2000