It's Hard To Be Goth Now
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2022
- Check out the band @MaleTears - Featured in this video is the song Model Citizen. You won't be disappointed, they're epic.
Kevin Macleod - Super Circus
"Goth doesn't hold the patent on dark themes." @aytakk
"Goth doesn't hold the patent on dark themes."
As a metalhead, can confirm \m/
As a Goth in the Dallas area, the Metalheads, Punks, and Goths all intermingle. They always make their way to our clubs, lol. We love you guys!
Yesss
Metal & Goth are opposites that look the most alike out of most subcultures lmao. Rivitheads too.
That awkward moment where you like both Goth music and Metal so you're kinda just walking that line doing whatever and knowing about both.
@@ferrykeizer4911 Thus, gothic metal for us. Early Tristania, early Theatre of Tragedy, The Sins of Thy Beloved, Virgin Black, Lacuna Coil, kinda Draconian, kinda Cradle of Filth (with Dani's lyrics especially)
I don’t always dress “goth” due to depression and lack of money. But I’m goth. Because I love the music and subculture.
Too much stereotype thought or easy hate, fuck....
Dress goth due to depression
@@Shayne_Mushinexactly
@@Shayne_Mushinwhat they mean ya bozo is when you are down in the slumps you don't feel like dressing or being your usual self it's much harder to do when you are in depression mode
Shh
People only care about labels now, I had this girl that made fun of me a few years back for being goth, with the rise of popularity for the style nowadays, that same girl is in it now for just the style, labeling herself goth with little to no music or info about the culture
I love these types of chit chat vids angela !! i’ve been following you for years ever since I was a young babybat, I love learning about the subculture and older scene through you !!
Maybe if you can get band pins or patches and wear them, that might work wonders as a conversation piece
Back in the day, wearing such things helped to identify you, and wo to the person who wore them but didn't listen to them
It always stings a little more when it's the same bastards who gave you hell all of a sudden latching onto something you love and turning into a trend.
I ran into a girl the other day who used to bully me when we were in high school because I was alternative, and she’s now adopted that style for herself. She’s much nicer now and has grown since then but it still hurts a little.
People bullied me for dying my hair and wearing black clothes, dark leathers and laces, but now they're doing the things I did 10 years ago and labelling themselves as goth. It's disgusting. No goth bands involved!
I agree 100%! She's really intelligent and has a lot of great stuff to say! And she knows the subculture like a zombie knows a graveyard.
I remember getting my ass kicked for being a part of the subculture. Now anyone wearing a black t shirt is considered goth. Also missed the hell outta you queen
My friends and I would get shit thrown at us while they screamed at us “It’s not Halloween!” I’m glad the baby bats don’t have to experience that.
@@lividsunshine8968 I hear these stories ( I was born in 98), and all I can do is carry respect for goths from the older generations. I'm sorry you had to experience that.
That's even more funny when you live in Russia, where basically each 2nd or 3rd at least guy is dressed all black, because that's basically our national color for the wrong reasons, plus we kinda consider it formal.
@@sinenomine8739 why is black popular in Russia? That's super interesting.
@@ania99993 It's hard to trace it precisely. Maybe executioners of tzar Иван Грозный, which were called Опричнина, made it seem powerful enough. Black can undoubtely mean death vibes for us, but at the same time my nation usually consider it formal and serious. Lot's of gangs during 90's wore leather coats, so i think that some people can find it subconsciously alluring, because lots of cops in our police state are ofc corrupt, so people can be rather negative to them. Maybe it's a secret of a strange, twisted even, russian soul, which is unsurprising too if you consider how striking doom & gloom can be in our culture (especially in classic literature from Достоевский, Анна Ахматова, Цветаева), also Pathologic is our game, plus many people find apocalypsis in Stalker quite romantic even. Grey'ish brutalism archetecture, lots of abandoned places, constant sense of dread - it's mundane for every russian province. Yet, some people can even enjoy it.
I really just can’t get over how gorgeous she is. She’s like reverse aging.
She’s stunning ❤️
Gotta be a vampire or somethin'. 'Cause HOT DAYUM!!
She is gorgeous but I hate when it's "I can't believe you are 43." 43 isn't ancient. It's OK to age. We all age. She doesn't look gorgeous for 43. She looks gorgeous regardless. This isn't towards you op just a pet peeve of mine.
@@earthbruja5268 I agree... that's my pet peeve too. Some people think 30 is already ancient...
She’s so beautiful!
I'm currently 17 years old, not even an adult. I really appreciate how easy it is to be goth today in the 2020s, but whenever I hear stories like this I really wish I were here earlier. I have yet to find a single goth my age that is actually there for mainly the music and not mainly the label. I'm in this Facebook groups with mostly eldergoths who were all friends back in the day, and seeing them sharing and being passionate about the music, talking about all their good memories from the goth club years ago... I really envy that.
I understand completely. Recently turned eighteen. Took me like three years of being goth to actually find others my age. (disregarding the total assholes). Now that I can go to the goth club, I still kinda feel out of the loop. Not because I don't feel "goth enough", but because most of the music played is just the classics, and a lot of the crowd is 30+. Everyone is super welcoming regardless, but I'll never be able to relate to their big nostalgia party. It used to make me wish I'd been there with them in their heyday. But now I think it makes me want to recruit others. Like...maybe, in 4-7 years, when all the e-girls and e-boys grow up, we can bring them to clubs and events to show them the real music. Show them the crowd. I honestly just wanna bring more young people into the scene. They're the only way goth can stay alive.
My offspring is 17, and she constantly complains that she was born in the wrong generation.
@@JariDawnchild Yup. And quite frankly, the first wave of Gen Z isn't bad. It's just the younger Gen Z kids...the ones who never knew growing up without smartphones and playing card games for fun. They grew up with the world at their fingertips. Not only that, but the internet isn't what it used to be 12-14 years ago. It's a hellscape built to destroy any semblance of self-esteem and privacy. There's an ungodly amount of pressure put on these kids to look adult, sexy, and perfect. And then there's the ones whose lives are ruled by Twitter...THE most toxic place on the web right now (I'd almost go as far as to say it's worse than old 4chan....which is really saying something). It's just not a good environment for the developing mind.
I know that I've dealt with a couple self-esteem issues fueled by social media. And I was introduced to that world gradually. I grew up with a stark divide between the internet and real life. I couldn't imagine being brought up completely immersed in the world of social media.
@@cherylnightshade8518 I grew up with that divide as well, and I've done my best to teach it to my daughter. The internet should have an age limit and come with warning labels.
You will get those wonderful experiences too. The clubs still happen (maybe delayed with covid but it won't last forever) and there are plenty of new goths your age to meet along the way.
It is so strange being in the last generation that had both one foot in the pre-internet world and now one in post-internet. Having experienced both working so hard to hunt for those obscure bands' albums back then (so many good memories from road trips with friends between '92-'96 to hit record stores in bigger cities in northern California and the absolute hand-trembling TRIUMPH felt when you finally found a record that you'd been hunting for months/years), and now having wikipedia where there is so much readily accessible information and bandcamp where there are so many great goth bands from all over the world in a matter of a few clicks is ...just so insane to sit and really think about. My now husband was a DJ in our home town back then and he has a story of all the DJs around town at that time passing around one copy of a certain record to each other because there literally was only one copy of it in the entire area and then the absolute euphoria he felt when he found a copy of his very own while he was a foreign exchange student in Germany. He later worked at one of the local record stores in our home town for a number of years and was well-known around town as the guy you went to when you were trying to find any sort of obscure album because more likely than not he could special order it for you. I would never have met him and not spent the last 27 years together had it not been for that record store, me looking through the Cure section one day to see if there were any albums I didn't already have, and him coming up to me to ask if I'd heard of The Glove. It's a shame the younger generations don't get to have many, if any, of those kinds of formative, sometimes life-changing experiences.
I fall into this group as well.
Same. I didn't meet my husband that way, but the two people I consider my closest friends were because of an obscure (at least when I started going) goth night. Music was often an icebreaker. I miss the feel of those days. The same goth night is still going, but the last few times I went, it just felt hollow.
I find it a sad shame that these kids nowadays will never have that type of experience
I felt that hard. Such different times, & happened so fast.
Totally! I recently explained to a younger person about having read about all these bands in magazines for over 3 years before ever hearing one song.
Once , due to weather, we got a radio station from a major city skip over to us. I was so excited to Finally hear the Smiths music for the first time!!! Watching my dad put down his BLT sandwich while listening to Meat is murder - classic ! Still makes me laugh.
I actually got into an argument with this kid on Facebook not long ago about Lil Peep. I commented that Lil Peep wasn’t goth and that goth’s parent genre is postpunk and not mumble rap. He got upset and told me that goth has “evolved beyond the music” and that “goth is an interpretation”.
I’ve been in the subculture for over 13 years and it’s just insane to me how now suddenly they want the label 🙄
GOD THIS
THIS. I actually got into a fight (not about lil peep , about something completely not related to music) a few months ago with a girl who calls herself an “internet goth Barbie” and she practically worships lil peep. I also can’t stand how gen z thinks that people like MGK are “punk” . Literally the new “punk” music these days are just from artists who couldn’t make it in the rap world so they switched genre and brought their Xanax addiction with it.
It is quite strange and amusing how qe used to be HARDCORE made fun of for being "goth" and now suddenly everyone wants to be it without having any clue about the lifestyle behind it.
I wouldn't trash Lil peep's music for his talent just because little kids like to top him over other artist legends..
if i hadnt been on social media like instagram, i wouldnt believe that this happened. but no, ive been on instagram and seen so many comments from people who think exactly like this. the whole "goth is beyond the music" or "goth is an interpretation" or "in my opinion goth is more about the fashion" and i genuinely was in disbelief that people ACTUALLY thought like that. like, what?? thats like saying "in my opinion being a metalhead is more about the fashion" gahhh
Angela, as someone who lives in a very blighted and divided part of the nation right now (meaning going to a goth club is impossible) you are like my cool goth older sister I never had. I really appreciate your content
That warms my heart to hear. I'm happy to be your big sister! I hope that a goth night comes to your area soon.
Hang in there!!
Hang in like a bat…
Be yourself!!
@@williesnyder2899 Angela healed the earliest scars of my brush with goth elitism
Honestly, I just really want to make friends with someone that likes the same music that I do, but it's so difficult because of the people that dress goth for the 'look' and 'aesthetic'. I get so excited when I see someone who dresses goth, only to be disappointed when I find out that they don't care about the music and know nothing of the subculture's history. Now everyone wants to be 'goth' because it's popular, so that makes trying to find genuine goths really difficult. Thankyou for the video, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way!
Those are called posers, and you do not want posers as friends.
I've honestly had better luck with people who don't dress the part. I've met people that look goth but don't know a thing about it and unwilling to learn, and then I've met people who dress more alternative but not like to a major extent and they know and listen to all the same bands I do.
That actually makes me feel sad... I don't dress Goth or claim to be one but I can't stop listening to Goth Music.
@@Warlock-6127 That's how the cool people I've met are. They love the music but unless you asked them you wouldn't know
@Trinity M Ofcourse, I'm not saying that they can't at all, but, personally, it's just a little disappointing to find that some people don't actually listen to the music, especially being someone that absolutely loves music.
And then they are convinced that goth and emo can be used interchangeably. It’s so sad.
Ha see! You're sad. Emo!
Jk. It is sad.
I'm really glad you posted that quote. "goth doesn't hold the patent to dark themes." I feel like a lot of times when people talk about the "posers" they go on about how they hate how they dress the part but don't listen to the music. Goth isn't a look right? It's a music subculture. Someone dressing in dark clothes and not listening to the music doesn't make them a poser. Someone calling themselves goth without listening to the music makes them a poser. Anyways cant wait for the updated skin care routine. My skin needs help.
What would you call the people that don't listen to the music, but have the style though? I'm not arguing your point, I agree. I guess I'm more so asking do you mean they're just alt, scene, or emo and not goth?
More of an aesthetic and not necessarily considered goth? I'm bad at wording things I'm sorry
I would also like to know this as well :>
@@deannasoulpunk that’s generally what the label alternative is associated with
@@deannasoulpunk darkly inclined
🥰
"Goth doesn't hold the patent on dark themes."
YES, thank you ! I've always had a strong interest in dark themes, literature, harmonies in music, clothing... but I don't feel a specific thing for goth music. I can enjoy it on occasion, but it's not part of my usual playlists. I'm not a goth ! Just dark-liking, gothic-inspired if you want. And I don't see why this would be a problem, why people absolutely want to claim a label for themselves, label that they DO NOT FIT. Just like the dark stuff and chill, peeps.
I don't see why goth should be contained to just music, though. Goth literature and art has been around for far longer than the music, yet people seem to think that only goth music counts, lol.
@@Meg_88 I see what you mean, but "goth" is actually the subculture that developed around the music, hence the focus on the music ! The literature is gothic, not goth. Goth esthetics and themes are very strongly inspired from gothic things, but they're not the same thing.
@@EmelieWaldkenI get that, and I see your point. It's just annoying to me that when I was a teen (in the early 2000s), listening to Mephisto Walz etc, I wasn't goth enough and didn't "deserve it" (literal words I was told when I was 15!) for not looking the part. Not only could I not afford it, but my mom never allowed me to "dress satanic." And I suppose that always stuck with me. If listening to the music didn't make me "goth enough" then why have a label tied to music to begin with, ya know? I suppose I developed this "fuck you, I am whatever I want to be" attitude from that experience.
And as you said, goth "borrowed" a lot from other subcultures, especially the occult (which I'm deeply immersed in, ironically, lol, sorry mom), so for me, containing it to just music, even when pioneers of said music themselves have either stated that the term was either a joke or a label they didn't like/want, is rather silly, especially nowadays when there are so many different types of goths.
It's like saying "yeah, I'm gonna borrow from dark gloomy art and literature, and also borrow your aesthetic and imagery/symbols... But you're not part of MY subculture because you don't listen to these bands, sorry" lol.
So, I do understand. I just don't fully agree. I suppose now I'm just too old to care, lol.
Honestly, if I could be young again today, I don't think I would take the trade. Getting into goth in the 90s was such an intense period of discovery, self expression and so many memories of goth rituals with my friends that cannot be replaced by IG followers and spooky box hauls. Thank you for the reminder, Angela 🖤
It was so amazing
As a teenager of today, I'm jealous! Take me back to that time please! Goth seemed like it was so much more intense and like serious yet incredibly fun, now it's just kinda being watered down to an internet trend.
@@skeletalremains8555 it was intense! ❤️
@@skeletalremains8555 yeah except then it was okay to express morbid thoughts without being called out for it on social media. What I drew and wrote about then people would get their panties in a twist about today calling it “glorifying suicide”. There’s a lot about living in those days that people want to forget and I can’t help but wonder if they really understood how alienating it was.
I feel sad that being a goth holds less meaning, even if I’m rarely persecuted for it. Ngl as much as i love the Internet, Metal Gear Solid 2 was right about the Internet
Ok.......heres a long one. The biggest problem I can observe in person right now, as mentioned already in some other comments here, is that goth is seen as a fashion statement. Not even going to call out the whole sexual kink thing. Really just a fashion statement. And that apparently one is an asshole not worth spending time with at the goth club if you make it firm and clear that the goth music is what makes anyone a goth at all. Period.
One of my coworkers is someone who I was really excited to meet at first. I'd been working at this company for years and finally another goth to share cool stuff with and plan to go to events with. And introduce to my few other goth friends. We talked everyday about fashion and makeup stuff, and finally it hit one day when we started talking music. She was aware of The Cure, Sisters of Mercy, Siouxsie, etc. But didn't know any of their music. Didn't know the 90s bands. Didn't know about any of the newer bands that our local scene had gone apeshit over in recent shows we all gathered at (Twin Tribes, Actors, Diavol Strain, Wingtips, Curse Mackey, etc.). She even had the nerve to say she preferred a certain DJ in town over the others, but couldn't tell you why genre-wise or because of which bands popped up more in their mix. It was all bullshit and all she cares about is the fashion.
She'll take selfies with shirts of bands like MCR or Bring Me The Horizon and hashtag it with goth girl. I never made the accusation that she wasn't goth or called her out for not liking the music, but oddly enough she just began to only hang out with the other normie coworkers. She always had time to drink with them at hipster joints or some bougie place, but was never seen at the goth club again. From her recent pics you can see what she cares about. She just wants to be the only one in the group that's "hot" because she's decked out in e-girl crap whole everyone else is in baggie jeans and hoodie stuff. That's it. She just wanted to be the only hot goth girl in every photo. I don't care if I'm invisible in a goth setting and no one wants to capture me in a photoshoot.
It's not that these idiots are twisting themselves into knots trying to be goths and confused on the real meaning of the term and subculture (although there are certainly plenty like this), but rather in my experience there's far more people (not just women, and ftr I'm non-binary and in the local LGBTQ community there are plenty of goth posers as well who have all had to find their way out of the local goth scene as well) who are just trying to be the center of attention and want to be seen as the most attractive in any setting. And they decided to use goth fashion to do it. As someone who was a 14-year-old goth already a couple years into discovering the subculture by the time 2000 hit, and seeing my older teen and college aged friends with bruised and cut faces back then, it pisses me off that what used to get one nearly beaten to death back then is now a way to spice up a lame Instagram profile. And they think it's their place to reject me and exclude me from friendship, when they were the ones being shameful to begin with. Btw, the whole time I was actually friendly to this poser, never told them what they had to listen to, kept recommending clothing shops, kept inviting them, etc. It was their own fairness that just caught up with them. I just wish all of the posers online and irl would find a similar reason to just stop fucking pretending as well and get out of our scene. It's just as small as if always was and we don't need numbers inflated with their idiocy just to make photoshoots look cooler.
mad respect i agree 100 percent
Can't count how many times I've had to explain the difference between goth and gothic. That cathedral: gothic. Me: goth. Lil peep: neither.
It's a lot to explain but I think as annoying as it gets it's kind of up to us sound like a broken record and repeat ourselves. Goth kids today really do have access to great information and it's important that we help them use it properly because of all of the saturation it can be difficult for them to navigate so as long as they have the correct path they're on to a winner! Even though it might get annoying for us to repeat the same thing over and over, but there are worse things in life right?
I'm a gen z goth and glad I've grown up with the Internet, but it's annoying to see how fast misinfo is spread, bc then you get my peers trying to talk to me like I'm a walking fetish bc of the "I want a goth bf/gf" memes, and think it's not about the music at all and just looking slightly edgy? And that's the state of goth that's trending so everyone wants to hop on that. If it's just being used to describe smth then whatever bc labels aren't meant to be that deep. But these people make it deep when they shove into a label that happens not to fit them, so they force it to fit them by pushing out those who already use it. And if you remind them it's about music, "oh you're a gatekeeper and oldhead and not letting people enjoy things, goth has evolved beyond music akshully bc I personally don't like it."
Buzzwords like gatekeeper are also trending but without much meaning tbh. But ofc if anything trends it has to get diluted in order to trend. Whether it's a word, a clothing style or a mental illness. Brain cells aren't trending though who wants those 🤪
Oh holy crap who came up with that descriptor anyways?! "Edgy" sounds shallow and...limp... Then again, I'm a 37yo who grew up with the music, the literature, the exploring, the tight-knit community complete with kind elders and the actual DIY outfits because there was nowhere to buy the shit...
Sorry for whining all over your comment. :)
That's OK, thanks for sharing your experience. Because of a combo of hiding stuff from strict parents and not knowing any goths IRL let alone elder goths I don't really have experiences like that. Plus the saturation and misuse of the word makes it slower to find people online. Sorry I saw this late btw.
P.S. edgy is kind of a derogatory word to describe something dark. A neutral term would be alt, short for alternative i guess
𝚆𝚘𝚠
I feel you, I'm a Gen Z Goth and it's so confusing. Someone who looks goth doesn't know about the music, but a normie is an expert in the scene here lol
Oh you should look up Rezz’s fanbase (edm) they’re all calling themselves goths just cause she’s coming out with an industrial inspired album. Baffling indeed but muggles ya know? 🤷🏻♂️
It’s so hard to be goth now. It really is. I don’t even know where the goths are hiding out anymore. With no clubs to go to; there’s nowhere for us to meet anymore.
My goth, I miss goth nights.
honestly theres a big goth club in my state and a scene so im glad about it even if i cant go
Theres a website that was made for goths in my state to find out about events and clubs but its been inactive since covid started. :(
There's lots of goth clubs! The scene is reviving more than it has in a decade, at least here in the the US. It's super encouraging.
Trust me as a 40 year old former goth (well I say former goth in the sense that I don't have long black hair anymore, dress in black or look what one would perceive to be goth) you're not missing out on much. You're likely to come across as many shitty selfish nasty people in Goth clubs like you would anywhere else. I realized then that people in general were just unpalatable, not just the so called "normies".
same in Germany c:@@fruitandveggies24
I was in a weird situation where I was raised with goth music but I looked like a normie until I was 14 and started expressing myself like I wanted to. I found your channel around that time and I've called you my goth mom even though I'm a total stranger because you helped me become the woman I am now at 21 almost 22. You taught me goth etiquette and I relate to you with having had a rough upbringing myself. Just know that there are genuine goths in my generation and not just e-girls. Thank you Angela. 🖤🥺
Me too, I'm about to turn 23 and very much goth. Sans the attire currently, but that was due to losing a ton of weight in a short amount of time and being broke. My lovely best friend, who is in her 50s and has a love of neons gained weight around the same time so we ending up switching wardrobes and we both look very interesting at the moment.
Some young goths' music knowledge puts older people who have been in the goth scene for 20+ years to shame. Age does not imply goth music knowledge at all.
I also was in the same boat. I dressed like a normie until around 20ish, but I always was in love with the music. I didn’t really have any friends that were into it though, so I mainly stuck to enjoying what they did (which I still do!). It wasn’t till about 24 I started finally expressing myself the way I wanted, and it was also thanks to Angela’s channel as well. I’m just really glad I’m not alone in that kind of situation. 🖤
@@noblenova9324 This is why I don't like dress codes at goth events. A lot of fans of the music (eg - post punks, indie fans and some hipsters) don't look the part at all.
I've noticed this strange pattern developing for years now. I've been alternative for two decades, living in the same city through out. In the 2000s, in my experience, freaks were drawn to each other like magnets. We formed friendships by our taste in music (many of us met at concerts), entertainment, our odd senses of humor, what we knew about that the mainstream ignored.
Then in the 2010s, I noticed this shift taking place: people got quieter, they kept to themselves or only chatted with the group of people they came to events with. Of course this still happened before the 2010s, shyness is timeless. But the number of gregarious folks dropped, usually the most talkative people at alternative events now are either cool elders (glad they are still around!) or the perpetually drunk or high. It's gotten lonelier, the last time I made some real friends at an event was 2013. I don't use social media, so my opportunities at making friends and connections has dwindled significantly. It sucks.
There is this group of dj's who put on goth events in my city, very cool people and I am grateful for what they do. But I've been going to these events for some time and while I have had polite conversation, I have yet to make a lasting connection with anyone.
Perhaps it's just in my head, but I feel people are more on guard at these events now. There are the obvious tourists to be weary of, the ones who come dressed in slutty, Spirit Halloween type get ups, spend all night taking selfies, and the horny normies who come out to see specifically them. But with the exception of a few extraverted goths who talk to any one, everyone else is just huddled in their own little groups, eyeing passers-by suspiciously.
I inevitably end up doing this too, clinging to my partner as we chat by ourselves in a corner, dancing by myself/casually watching others dance, smiling politely at people but never saying much of anything. It's starting to feel like, outside of going out to see live music, maybe I should just stay at home and put on my own goth nights since I don't feel any true camaraderie among others anymore.
I don't know if this is a real sign of times changing or if it's mostly amplified in my head. Either way, it sucks ass and I wish I had more like-minded, freak scene friends to hang with.
id be your friend :D
@@yumi21195 you're sweet 🙂
I think people really need to be educated about Goth and where it came from, and how it's important for them to not believe in stereotypes like in movies. I had to explain what a Goth was to my Mom, and now she understands.
Exactly! Having that knowledge opens the door to understanding and appreciating it.
As an elder Gen X goth that grew up in the 80s in the middle of nowhere Indiana, I had no way of finding anything about goth. Hell, I didn’t even hear the term there. I always said I was alternative. But, listened to whatever goth and dark wave music I could. Which wasn’t a lot. I totally get you in the statement about you would have loved the internet then. My only way of hearing new music was on mtv and 120 minutes. Which they played in the middle of the night on Sundays!
highly relate!
Similar roots for me. Grew up on military bases and found music through KazAa and limewire.
I did the same thing! 120 minutes…only place to see Alien Sex Fiend.
We are living in the Society of Spectacle. We are defined by how we appear, not what we actually do. Social media and the internet is definitely a big part of that. What's really sad is that there is so much good information out there, but nobody wants to look for it. They just want to have it all given to them.
this is why gate keeping is a good thing. this is happening to punk now as well. punk kids now hold up establishment ideals and attack anybody with anti establishment ideals.
I agree a hundred percent!
I used to be a mod for a huge punk community on Facebook and I would have to kick out right wing nazi idiots all the time. I left because it just became too much for me to handle, because the other mods just didn't give a shit. It was a mess.
Wait, wasn't the punk movement an anti establishment movement? How is trying to hold up the establishment punk?
Agreed!
I do not agree.
Who is entitled to play the gate-keeper?
What are they supposed to do when they spot a poseur?
What about when a gate-keeper disagrees with an elder goth?
What about gate-keepers abusing their authority to keep inside those they/the event sponsor likes and out those they don't like regardless of their goth pedigree?
Goth was always, among other things, about rejection of power and the ability of someone to interfere with someone else's life.
No gatekeepers, please. They are so institutional, so establishment, so foreign to the goth nature!
What I don't understand is what's so appealing for people who don't like Goth music to call themselves Goth. Liking the black lipstick and the studs and such is fine, but other cultures made use of that too.
Shit, Aaliyah wore a lot of black, chains and leather and she was a very respected R&B icon. You don't have to call yourself Goth to use that stuff so what I just fail to understand is the importance of making Goth a fashion thing and /having/ to call yourself Goth when you can simply just be you and like these things. Do your own thing ya know? No shame in that.
The supposed offense people take to the suggestion that you have to like Goth music to be Goth also makes no sense to me because it's a million times more permissive than all these new ''requirements'' people seem to push on new members. I need a third hand to count every time I saw a conflict over how ''true Goths'' wear this or that or ''true Goths'' read this or that
It's ironically very much akin to gatekeeping for this brand that seems to complain about gatekeeping, in my opinion a lot more than just suggesting certain bands and songs to immerse yourself into Goth culture. Hell I've been told I'm not a Goth for dressing too masculine when I thought that dressing however you like was the whole point /as long/ as you like Goth music. I don't care so much whether I am or not and I'll explain why in a second. My point stands.
It seems very ironic to claim gatekeeping when such commercialization seems to try and limit members into what brands and styles to wear to ''be a Goth''. All these little irrelevant do's and don'ts stacking up but somehow it's music (The thing that made the culture) where it becomes gatekeeping? It personally pushed me away a bit overtime because I simply cannot relate.
Having grown up a labour-class kid and a Metalhead it was pretty obvious that being a Metalhead simply meant you have to like Metal . We'd all shake our heads if you tried to make Metal nothing more than a fashion thing. Why's that supposedly different with Goth, another music subculture? Just makes no sense to me how the term ''Goth'' outgrew what made it. Is it really ''evolving'' if you dismiss the core of something?
I love a lot of Goth music, as much as I do Metal. Especially 90s stuff like Switch Blade Symphony, Corpus Delicti and Lycia. Otherwise Fields of the Nephilim and the Sisters of Mercy etc are right up there for me. It kinda grew onto me overtime much like my other passions did.
As I'm walking a line between two cultures I suppose the matter of ''are you Goth or not'' doesn't mean so much to me anymore as much as having the knowledge to properly represent whatever I'm talking about does.
I still love what I love, nothing changed. But this new commercial strain of ''Goth'' just alienates me. Like it became some kind of popularity contest that I don't want to be a part of.
What's considered ''Goth'' now ain't what I am so there's that.
I was afraid this would happen back around 2008 when I encountered an article in a teen magazine talking about how UgLyYy goth fashion is but how it CAN be pretty, and then proceeded to show a bunch of photos like 14:30 . They want to take our fashion/music/etc. and claim it as their own, but only after watering it down.
I got into goth in the mid-late 00s. I feel like it was a nice balance between the 90s and today. In the 00s, it was easy to find goth bands and info online, but it wasn't nearly as overwhelming and oversaturated as it seems now. And folks online seemed to talk and actually listen to each other more in the 00s than they do now. (Now it just feels like yelling into a void lol) Anyway, I recently found your channel, and I'm really enjoying your videos! 🖤
Right? I miss the 00s internet, it seems like it was way easier to connect with people those days. Especially before the social media. We had forums and messengers like icq, and communicating was fun, sharing knowledge and music and our thoughts about anything was fun. Now the social media platforms are a hellscape full of narcissists and people so ready to lash out and be dicks to each other. The profit motive of the platforms tricking people into certain behaviors really ruined it all.
I'm 19 and one of my hobbies is searching out old goth and alternative web rings and browsing people's sites using the way back machine, it's really refreshing compared to the current saturation of the internet. It must've been really cool to live through it and actually get to see websites as they were intended rather than full of broken links and images that no longer exist to be viewed
I still go out to goth clubs. The conversations and things I learned from other goths at goth clubs were incredibly formative.
I generally disagree with gate keeping, I think it prevents people from finding their true identity within a scene/subculture, but some things do need to be protected- such as calling out people who don the label of goth, punk, whatever when they don’t listen to the music or follow the ideology. goth has been majorly lost to consumerism and it’s very saddening. i get frustrated seeing all my fellow gen z’ers buy “goth clothes” from fast fashion sites such as shein, it’s all about looking the part, fitting in with everyone else, not about your own identity and self expression.
It's about the music, period.
I got unbelievably lucky in 82-83 because my 7th grade English teacher went on maternity leave to be replaced by a new substitute who spent the last few years earning her master's degree as a foreign exchange student, in London.
As she introduced herself she told us "I am a Goth", even writing it on the chalkboard (yes she was dressed on black with makeup and accessories but the dress was a long frumpy one that covered her from the neck down as she needed to dress appropriately, that and she had to wear orthopedic shoes instead of her pikes) She challenged us saying that her music was not our music, until I, having been up all night whenever I could watched music videos and, I knew and loved her music. So I was fascinated and first chance I got turning in a paper repeated Sister of Mercy and Bauhaus lyrics to her. She looked like she had swallowed a frog, but after school asked me to carry a heavy bag for her to her car and off we went. She had mix tapes from the Bat cave a friend had made for her.
Such was getting Goth music for me when I was 13.
(Edit: for the sake of accuracy...
No I don't remember exactly whose or what lyrics I repeated to her.
Sisters of Mercy formed in 1980, but actual records released to the public came about much latter. Lealith DID however have recordings and did tell me that she went to see them at gigs. It's still possible that they played a live song of theirs in those music video shows for to me to repeat to her but more likely it wasn't. Please forgive me, it was over 39 years ago after all and hard to keep tiny details straight during that time especially when there where traumatic events that happened)
Holy mother effing... I'm kind of jealous lol.
@@JariDawnchild It was definitely one of those chance encounters to be certain. Lealith wouldn't have left London except that she couldn't get another extension to continue her stay as an exchange student. But as strange as it may seem, she felt just as lucky to have ran into me as I did her. With staying in London no longer possible her hopes were to make a small Goth community, and in 82-83 she didn't exactly have many prospects but I was a start. She believed as I still do that to change the world for the better one must first try and change the culture. Hence the need for counter culture.
It wasn't to last however and she wasn't with us long enough
You heard the term 'goth' that early in the US? In the SF East Bay it wasn't used until ten years later.
@@megmcguigan3857 I never heard it again until much latter either. Had Ms. Sandra Wayne not written it on the board I probably wouldn't have remembered that she ever used the term.
The music stopped coming a couple years latter.
In fact for a long time I thought Witching Hour was a band from the early eighties I had missed and was just then hearing.
Aah! Very similar to myself, I had a teaching assistant help me with a subject I was struggling in, he was amazingly cool and fair. Had long hair, listened to industrial goth and metal, at the time I was getting into some mainstream punk and asked what he listened to... The next day he gave me a box full of his old cassette tapes! I'm talking Nine inch nails, The birthday party, sisters of mercy, Cathedral... My world got so much bigger that day, and darker
Cheers for the shoutout in the description!
New people who experience goth only online don't get how different it is experiencing it in person through clubs and gatherings. The policing happens far less and if people are judging you they usually do it silently. Supporting your local goth scene is enough, no one cares if you are goth or not and you will be exposed to goth music through it. People don't tend to stick around very long if they hate the music.
Many people are fans of what they think goth is as opposed to just experiencing the goth subculture as it really is.
Being the only goth around my area (I live in a city of 100,000 people), It's impossible for me to find other goths. I tried social media to make goth friends, but those groups are all about models who wear next to nothing and guys drooling and simping for that. And now that I still am dating, it is almost impossible to find someone who is worth it because guys just want my body and that notch in their belt as opposed to getting to know me. Nobody that I've been talking to knows anything about goth music, knows what our subculture is about so they tell me that I'm not goth because of X,Y, or Z based on their ignorance of what mainstream society tells them. I feel lost, but I will NEVER compromise who I am to please a potential friend or lover
Eww. These people sound gross.
Lol same! Nobody ever talks about the rarity of goths in small towns. Other than the occasional teenager, I’m the only goth in my town. But seriously, as long as you have friends who don’t care that you’re goth it doesn’t really matter. None of my best friends are goth, only acquaintances.
I'd love to be your friend!
Watching this right now and realizing you really tell a story like a long islander, I love it💜
Ha! I do? Is that because I over-elaborate and dilly dally?
The detail in which it must be known why you are invested/ excited/ or pissed off about the subject just reminds me so much of myself, my friends, or acquaintances getting in that groove. Although you do a phenomenal job not using curse words the way people use “like” as fillers in your sentences 🖤
@@angelabenedict I’m in New York City and my family have a house in Long Island I guess we are neighbors ♥️
Even before I listened to goth regularly, I had an idea of what it was and was very confused at people who were claiming “goth rap” was a thing. It’s practically a nonsense word lol. In my experience, when I began listening to Siouxsie, SoM, the Cure, Rosetta Stone, Switchblade Symphony, etc it was like something clicked and I was just obsessed with listening to the music. It wasn’t about the label, because I didn’t care about the term. Granted, I love dressing dark but never would have considered myself a goth before I found my love for the music. What I don’t understand is people who are so concerned about the label. They are mad at us for saying they use it incorrectly, but why are they so intent on using it? Especially if they know it doesn’t apply to them (although probably many haven’t even heard a goth song). I have never understood “poser” logic. Why would u want to pretend to be something that you can be? If you want to be goth so bad, then pick up an album and fall in love with the sound. And if you hate it, then why do you want the title so badly? It’s confusing lol.
Oh dear...this is the first time I've come across term "goth rap"... Would calling it a word salad be incorrect or rude?
@@JariDawnchild It would be accurate. Rap will never be Goth, lol.
@@JariDawnchild you would be completely correct! It’s a word salad, complete nonsense lol.
As an 18 year old who has been into goth for about 5 year years now, I honestly wish I could've started out in a time where it was harder to get involved. Sure it's great that I can get easy access to everything I want/need, but that honestly takes some of the fun out of it. I take somewhat of a more old school approach to things and I can safely say nothing compares to FINALLY getting that CD you ordered a month ago or finding that perfect item in the thrift store. I think you tend to cherish those things alot more. I don't have memories of listening to music on spotify, but I do have very fond memories of getting the mail and bolting to my room to tear open that package I've been waiting for, struggling to get that fucking plastic off, and finally getting it open and popping it into my CD player and listening to the album front to back while going through the liner notes just taking in the art that accompanies the album I'm listening to. My generation is very privileged having the internet and not really having to deal with being one of the freaks, but I feel as if alot of us take it for granted and lose some experiences and miss out on stuff. Record stores are for the most part obsolete, alternative clothing stores are few and far between, clubs and concerts aren't happening as much for obvious reasons, and there's no longer that group/tribe feeling. Even in bigger cities I haven't seen a group of goths, punks, metalheads etc. just hanging and having fun. Everything is online now so why go out? I feel like now that alternative subcultures are more centered around the internet they have become less genuine?(I don't know, that's the best way I can put into words how I feel) Like you no longer really have that physical aspect of the subculture anymore unfortunately and it definitely changes alot of stuff. Goth is by no means dead, but very different from the picture I've been painted of the earlier days of goth. The days when you had to put in real work, time, and effort to be goth, now it's "let me wear a black shirt, slap on some black lipstick, and listen to some dark music. Wow, look how goth I am! Gonna get so many likes on instagram and tiktok." and you're good to go. It can be really frustrating when 13/14 year olds think they know everything about goth and when you try to respectfully correct them they get mouthy calling you an asshole, you're mean, you're a gatekeeper etc.
i don't find it hard to be goth, but it can be lonely. 🙁
I've been thinking about this in a much broader sense - the internet really didn't work like we expected it to. There's SO much oversaturation in literally any category you could imagine, and it's made us lose our sense of what is true. When you find any information, it takes 10x the effort just to verify its legitimacy. Most of the time I just don't have enough time in my day to figure out that kind of thing and I've had plenty of conversations where we just agree to take something with a grain of salt, with a "hey idk, that's just what I heard" sort of note attached. It's really sad.
This does happen in other subcultures/genres as well. When Skrillex came out with Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites, people completely appropriated the "dubstep" label. There was an entire history of a totally different genre already called dubstep, which evolved out of UK garage and, namely, Jamaican dub music, which had evolved out of reggae. Suddenly this post-hardcore kid starts making gritty electro-house and bam, the US calls it dubstep, for some reason.
(Because it goes wobble wobble, I guess. It's the equivalent of hearing any music with horns in it and calling it ska.)
A huge part of the goth predicament is that our social groupings are very visual-based. It makes sense; it's the first thing you can observe about someone that'll hint that you might get along with them. But the unfortunate result is that the fashion becomes disconnected from the subculture. People who aren't curious about it just look at the aesthetic and say, "yep that's goth," (in favor or not) and the public's understanding of the label never goes beyond that aesthetic. So for a lot of newcomers, especially kids, the music wasn't even something they had conceived of before first looking into the aesthetic and learning about what inspired it.
But with the current state of the internet, you really have to bend over backwards to find that information. And, since being "alternative" isn't quite as taboo, the desire to do so is disappearing.
My impression as someone born in 1997, right on the line between millennial and gen-z, is that a lot of these kids just have so many different niche aesthetics that most don't really identify with just one. There's just so MUCH. It makes a lot more sense, especially in the world of social media, to change up your style frequently, get into a new genre just to check it out, and combine aesthetics. It's become normal to just visit a metaverse, and then move on to another - I mean, there are so many out there, why not explore? And kids today won't get harassed nearly as much for that. I think the attitude has changed from "It's not a phase!!" to "of course it's a phase, of course I'm going to try other things too."
I think this normalizes the casual assignment of labels. Aesthetics are fluid, and new participants aren't as concerned with the history of the aesthetic as they are with what they can DO with it. It's about riding a trend and being a part of its evolution. So, instead of a babybat diving in and going, "Oh! There's a whole music scene attached to this!??" and then dissecting it and mapping out the line of influence over the years, they're more inclined to just say, "whoever calls themselves goth decide what goth is."
To be honest, I like the ATTITUDE. I appreciate the desire to be inclusive and be open to evolution. But it's a huge oversight to claim evolution is happening when none of the influences line up, when it doesn't represent the established subculture, and when that massive simplification begins to erase/bury said subculture. Spooky E-Girls can have their vibe, and I bet in another climate plenty of goths would love and support it. JUST PICK A DIFFERENT NAME FOR A DIFFERENT THING.
I love this take on it
Non. 😠
You made some excellent points, especially when the internet made everything part of the mainstream. Frank Zappa said: ”The mainstream comes to you, but you have to go to the underground.” Also, the internet allows big businesses and the state to co-opt alternative culture more easily. Subculture and what makes it special has been killed off by the internet, because it makes it too easy to appropriate the look but the values and ideologies are ignored, or stripped away. It’s down to consumerism, because it’s turned subculture into just another consumer product that can be worn then discarded.
The fitting room ticketmaster is the most amazing thing I have ever heard. Just imagine pushing through a random fitting room door and instead of a changing area there's just an entire goth club back there but it only does that if a goth opens the door :>
like goth narnia or something lol
You described my exact feelings when I heard about switchblade symphony back in the mid 90s. Was like a damned quest finding cds
My favorite band!
Don’t forget y’all that when something is a trend it means that eventually it’s going to fade away and all that will remain are the core people who liked it in the first place. It happened with rollerblading, parkour, and now it’s starting to happen with rollerskating. For some thing like goth it’s going to take a few years just like with the previously mentioned things but it will eventually go out of style and the people who only cared about labels will stop
I was born in '92 and technically qualify as a Millennial, but even with the saturation of the garbage that misrepresents us back when I started getting into goth, I can say with confidence that I busted my ass to research things as thoroughly as possible, because I was truly passionate about it and I try to do my best to avoid spreading the wrong information about it. It's such a tragedy that instead of wanting to understand what goth is, people opt for bastardizing its name by judging its value based on labels (be it physical or not) and associating things that were never meant to be there in the first place... and then systematically shit on everyone who knows better and just calls us elitist, gatekeepers, "old heads" that are unwilling to evolve, etc.
It's stupid how people are so desperate to lie, contradict, and rely on blatant hypocrisy.
Boy, there was apparently some serious privilege to being a city goth. I was a small town goth, and there was me and my one friends and that was *it*. The internet was the *only* place to look, and I agree, it was bad.
Things are way better for small town goths now.
Nah, there still is, I’m one of like 4 goths (one of whom doesn’t like me) in my college that is located in a town that’s kinda known for having nothing to do and it sucks…. I have a lot of friends in general but just not many goth friends…There’s a small scene with a club or two in the surrounding cities tho
Driving out of town to a decent record store to browse import catalogs and then order a $30 CD and wait months to hear it for the first time was MAGIC because the day you got it was like goth Christmas. Remember the World Serpent catalog? Heaven
Yes! That out of town music excursion. Generation Records was a little over an hour away but it was worth it. That anticipation that would build waiting for that CD and then when you finally get it, carefully handling the insert and reading it cover to cover while listening. I miss that.
@@angelabenedict I wish younger people could experience it.
@@1015SaturdayNight I've reminisced with siblings and friends often enough that my daughter hungers for that kind of experience, though she'd never have the patience for it.
@@angelabenedict World Serpent were based in Deptford, South London. Not far from me.
Middle Pillar.
hey! gen-z here. i started getting into the ‘alt’ scene about 3 years ago as one of the bunny-hat-wearing, mother mother listeners claiming i was goth or emo. now im 14, going on 15, and my style is pretty ‘goth’ now , but i never really felt like a real goth and i didnt really understand why. neither of my parents were and/or are goth or are a part of any subculture so i thought thats why i felt like a poser. then i considered that maybe it because i was young, but then i realised i wasnt really listening to the music, because i didnt know that goth was a MUSIC subculture. i think thats partly because i found out about goth from tiktok (home of the lil peep e-girls), plus all the ‘goth girls’ in my high school, as nice as they may be, really just listen to doja cat and wear eyeliner. now that ive explored the music, which ive found i really enjoy, and now i really feel as if im a ‘baby bat’ (but i do still listen to mitski. shes my exception
@Creepy Girl thissss
Yea same here i am 24 and i dressed "normal" until 18 but listened the good ol goth music a lot earlier than that, and i've been ONCE in a goth night club, once in my life!! All i see is these e girls and others and since my town is kinda small, i gotta go to the capital city to have a goth night and just when i discovered them, the Plague hit.. The worst is that these e girls still mock my trad goth looks and be like "hihihi weird looking person hihi" even tho they pretend to be goth as well.. I can't! Only good thing is that now there's a lot of gothy stuff at trift stores since the e girls keep abandoning their "goth phase" quite fast
That's the most annoying part! My style is more romantic/victorian goth. So many times those e- girls who are dressed "goth" tell me I look like a weirdo. 😑
“Goth doesn’t hold the patent on dark themes”
I very confidently claim myself as a metalhead. I notice so many people associating the way I dress with goth, and come up to me in public making comments about. I usually shrug it off and/or correct them, but it is kind of frustrating in a way seeing how many people strictly assume goth by the way you dress. I wear a lot of band T’s and ripped jeans by default, but when I put an outfit together you’ll find me wearing black vintage clothing, or black “Victorian” style (like you briefly pointed out Victorians being a sort of misconception of goth). I think it’s absolutely beautiful and it makes me feel whole and happy. That is what matters to me.
Although it’s not my misconception of Goth (at least I don’t think) I can’t help but feel at some sort of fault when people get me mixed up. It also makes me question my place. But at the end of the day, I am me, and I like what I like.
Anyways, I really enjoyed this video! Thank you for sharing this, I think it’s really important for people to know.
I remember when I first got into the goth subculture when I was 19. I bought myself a pair of Mad Fish boots, a now discontinued vegan friendly and cheaper alternative to New Rock Boots due to how much money I had. I bought a leather trenchcoat from eBay, which I manage to keep in good condition for 8 years. In fact most of my clothes and music came from eBay and music stores, due to the fact that my hometown didn't have many alternative fashion shops. It never occurred to me at the time that I could try my hand thrift shopping. I went to the library to find books about the goth subculture to learn all I could about all of it's aspects. My parents were convinced that goth was all about devil worship, and that as a black guy and a Christian (yes, they also believed that black goths didn't exist, despite the fact that I know several black goths and Christian goths), I shouldn't give the subculture the time of day and made me return said books I borrowed from the library early and would even get other relatives involved in the shaming and guilt tripping. It died down after I graduated from university, though I did get the odd snide remark from time to time and my dad would throw a strop whenever I went to a concert. I also remember the dreaded 80s and 90s talkshows, where goths and punks would be dragged on national television to be subject to shaming, ridicule and even unwanted makeovers, the worst being Jenny Jones and now, all of a sudden, goth is being turned into a sexual kink and a mainstream trend. Not promoting creativity, just treating it like the so called in and hip thing and only on their terms.
There used to be a decent record/music store, but it sadly went out of business. I'm still adding music to my playlist, I still discover some goth music. I sadly live in a rough situation, but it hasn't stopped me from being my spooky self. And I'm always learning new things of the culture that I love so much.
When I lived in Pennsylvania in the middle of nowhere goth was super rare and I felt like a rockstar. Every cd or record or clothing piece acquired was like hitting the lottery and I became super good at sewing my own clothing, but when I moved to Seattle Washington all of a sudden it exploded and now it's everywhere I look and the ppl who've newly picked it up are so clueless about music and movies. I've completely lost my identity in this process and am still trying to get it back.
Social media is simultaneously the best and worst thing to happen to alternative subcultures.
I tried to unite the goths in my high-school. Was quite difficult as the elitists tried to gate keep the baby bats. Only to all be singled out and out numbered and picked on. Was dumb. So just did my own thing.
In the town I grew up, they had a record store called Hot Poop. They had a great selection and I found some really obscure stuff there, but like... why the name?
I'm dying 🤣🤣🤣
The record stores where I grew up was called Hot Wax, which makes sense, but Hot Poop?!?!
😅😆😂🤣
I have no idea why.
But if they had alternative music then props to them, Hot Wax MIGHT have had something likeSex Pistols if you were lucky but that's all. So better Hot Poop than one with a better name but not what you actually listen to.
I wish there were stores where I live called things like Hot Poop lol.
Must have something to do with your nickname.
Everyone wants to use the hashtag but no one wants to suffer for their art and music🖤☠️💀🎸⚰️🎸🦇
On the point about the muddling of the different subgenes, I honestly believe that knowing or at least having an understanding of them is more helpful than some people may realize. Because the truth of the matter is that Goth did have subgenres. It all started with Goth rock which shortly gave birth to Deathrock (which started in the US) and then gave birth to Darkwave which was goth rock but with added emphasis on the synth soundscape from the keyboard in addition with the guitar to create a dance-like style, and then Ethereal Wave which did the same as Darkwave but instead of making dancey-type of music, it went for soothing and atmospheric instead. And then finally Coldwave which was really just first-wave goth rock being made in Western Europe The point is it was a family that was expanding in household with Goth being the heart of it. Pretty much like Metal and how it gave birth to other subgenres of it's kind. And learning all this helped make Goth music much more digestible. It's true that people around my age or younger weren't lucky enough to get the social treatment but we used the resources we could to try and learn thanks to the archive sites of music that people around your generation and older created with certain websites. There was some misinformation but if you had perserverance and a keen ear, you could really learn enough to get by.
I still flashback to the days when I first consciously heard Goth music, specifically the first wave stuff with Bauhaus, Virgin Prunes, Sex Gang Children, etc and how hard it was to get into (with the exception of Siouxsie and The Cure) because it was so different compared to the music I was listening to at the time which was alternative rock and grunge from the 90s. I remember almost throwing in towel on Goth music until I decided to give it one more chance and give 90s Goth music a try and as soon as I heard songs like Nosferatu's "Alone", Rosetta Stone's "Adrenaline", Love Like Blood's "Everlasting Dream", Gitane Demone's "A Heavenly Melancholy", and Miranda Sex Garden's "Peep Show", I was very surprised at how much I was enjoying this kind of sound and then when I got around to more Darkwave stuff like Clan of Xymox, The Frozen Autumn, Lycia, and She Past Away, It was then that I knew that Goth music was right up my alley.
And so I take all this and try to give back by trying to make videos that helped newcomers ease into the scene. I understand that some people may not like that approach with me cutting to specifics but I was just making the kinda videos I wish were around when I was first getting into the scene back in 2009. My motto is that people may not like what I say but they will come out learning something and that's all that really matters to me.
I will say that it does indeed suck that the social aspect of the scene has dwindled over the decade as clubs shut down and we have a new breed of people who are trying to captalize on the phrase "Goth" when they have no genuine interest in the scene and only further perpetuate nasty stereotypes lik the "Goth thot" onlyfans/BDSM thing or misinformation about the music like Lil Peep/"Soundcloud Rap" stuff (though to be fair, this happened even back in the late 90s with the Nu Metal craze and then Symphonic Metal craze), and so on. It's unfortunate for sure but the best one can do is just try to explain why the stereotypes aren't true and why this non-goth music isn't goth.
very true. I got into goth music through type o negative, because I have a love for Stoner doom metal.
At first I didn’t like joy division, siouxsie, sisters or other bands. Let alone other artists with a more unique sound.
But after a slow evolution through type o, I found myself loving them. Especially since I’m also into EDM. Can of xymox, and other current wave artists like boy harsher, hante, and minuite machine was a direct pipeline into 80’s wave artists.
It took a long time but now I’m genuinely here for the sound. And frankly newer artists with that gothic sound are very exciting to keep up with! I have a whole playlist of modern gothic artists that I have on repeat. Granted some of it is inspired by coldwave & post-punk and not actually goth, but most of the artists are genuinely goth. The sound has evolved so much and I’m here for ALL of it
Absolutely reeling that TicketMaster used to be a physical booth you had to go to
And they were always hidden somewhere random. Like Narnia!
People just want the label, but they don’t want to do the research, or actually put in the time to put together an actual goth music playlist. Anyways, I missed you Angela 🖤
It's true, they love the label but want nothing to do with the actual subculture.
I have no idea what it is with normies adopting that word.
@@ironwolfosiris it's embarassing.
@@angelabenedict I’m gonna put my two cents in as a young goth (23) and say why I don’t interact with the subculture. In all my life experience the people have been extremely toxic and from what I’ve heard this isn’t uncommon with scene and music cultures. And I went goth AFTER high school so no I’m not talking about prissy teenagers lol.
For me, I learned about goth from a stranger on the internet (who I’m now good friends with, one of my few positive interactions in the subculture). She taught me the roots of it, and I did my own proper research as well into the original bands, literature, etc. I chose to dig into it more because I enjoyed it, not for a label. I was an adult at that point so really gathering labels was the least of my concerns. I didn’t even know goth was a thing outside of TV shows because I live in a small town and that sort of thing just doesn’t exist here, except the occasional edgy teenager (which is still rare).
So what do I mean about the subculture being toxic then? Well I did go to some goth clubs a couple hours from home and it had its moments. It’s very cool hearing actual goth music on loud speakers and knowing you’re not the only one who enjoys it. But it was also full of other people trying to out-goth each other. You bought your outfit because you can’t sew? Yikes, I’m inching my chair away from you. You DON’T LIKE this one band?!? Doesn’t matter you like tons of other goth music, you’re not goth enough for my liking anymore. I’ve noticed in your videos sometimes you wear bright blue nail polish. Imagine somebody having the AUDACITY to come up to you and question if you’re actually goth because you’re not wearing black nail polish instead. That’s what nearly all my interactions with other goths have been like. It is so full of elitism and self entitlement to the point where I’ve been embarrassed to say I’m goth because of how some people act.
My “favourite” interaction I had with someone was when we were showing each other our playlist and I only have one massive playlist which has every song, meaning every genre I listen to in it (I’m one of the minority who actually likes all my music in just one list rather than sorting it). I had a single Skrillex song in it and she said “Skrillex? Seriously?” in the most derisive manner and handed my phone back to me while my insecure self tried to justify it. Because in her eyes, liking music that WASN’T goth just wasn’t possible while still holding my goth card. Now that I have actual self esteem, I’d say “Yeah it’s right next to all my disney songs if you’d like to make fun of those too!” But because I listened to more than one genre of music I was no longer worthy.
And the worst part is that because so many young people have such shitty attitudes, ALL young people get roped into the category of “not caring about the roots” and “only wanting the label.” Just look at the comment section of this video. So even the young goths that try won’t get accepted by the elders because we’re all just posers or not trying hard enough for their satisfaction. There is simply no winning.
So no, I don’t interact with the subculture outside of following my favourite bands, authors, and RUclipsrs. I wouldn’t even usually leave a comment like this tbh I swear. I’m sure this probably sounds like a massive attack on you and I promise that’s not the intention. I just wanted to share my point of view and reasoning for why some people may choose to be less engaged than the elders would like. And personally, I see no harm in it as long as you’re educated in the origins and keep up to date on goth goings ons. It’s kind of like how a witch doesn’t need a coven to be a witch, but people will look at them better if they’re part of a coven right? You don’t like to admit it, but it’s true. That’s my two cents and of course just my experience, so RUclips please keep the death threats to a minimum.
@@malevolentsnow9867 valid opinion
We love you, Angela! The goth scene is sacred ! 🦇💕
It really is.
I know its tough for zoomers who are still teens to get this as they tend to see the world primarily as how it is represented through social media, but as a (nearly!) OG Goth (second wave late eighties baby bat) I can say the Goth scene now, and the Goth music that is being put out now is better than it has been in years. If being part of the Goth/alternative scene is important to you then as soon as you are old enough go to college in a big city that still has a Goth/Darkwave/ alternative scene, its what most of us had to do back then too! You will find clubs, people, gigs, festivals and because you are young it will be YOUR time, you will meet YOUR clan or tribe or group and have these same times, don't think it is something that just ended in the nineties! But you have to always keep in mind, social media is a dishonest mirror, it is not the real world! YOUR Goth scene is waiting for you and if your town doesnt have one then do what we ALL had to do in the nineties or naughties, you MOVE to a city that you can truly call home and where your heart is!
Na, I'm soooo glad we didn't have the access to the internet back then that everyone has now. I wholeheartedly believe that's what truly killed the REAL Goth culture...and pretty much any other atl sub genre that was so beloved in the 80's & 90's. The internet has made it about nothing but vapid materialistic narcissism with no real understanding of what "goth" even means anymore.
As frustrating as it was sometimes, I loved the hunt of finding a new band, hangout, clothes, etc. That's what made it so damn rewarding in the end. Not to mention, when you DID find that gem, you were able to fully immerse yourself and enjoy it with every part of your being instead of thinking you have to take a picture or record everything just to post it online for the validation of a bunch of meaningless strangers just to forget about it 5 seconds later. Back then you didn't want the world to know everything, you wanted to keep things "underground" and almost to yourself and I loved the hell out of that.
Nothing will ever be the same. This goes with everything in general. Things are way too easy now so people don't want to work for anything anymore...income, relationships, friendships, etc. It's funny, we live in a time where every piece of information is literally at our fingertips, and yet I feel this is the dumbest society has been in my almost 40 yr lifetime...
I tried to email acquaintances because it’s more intimate than social media, but I barely get responses. I used to like to write real letters back in the 90s and 00s. I feel now meeting new people means “liking” what social media group they run, not one on one. It’s happened even with friends I had pre-Covid.
Angela is always saying what we’re all thinking. Each video is just amazing! 🖤🪦
It's already insane to me how much things changed in the last 10-15 years. I grew up with my dads good old hard rock music in a rural area in Europe. Me and all my alternative living friends got so much hate for being different. I found my love for goth and metal music and aesthetic when I was 11/12. Now I am nearly 25. But where I lived there was just no goth scene. But all of the alternative people who were teenager or in the early 20s at that time just sticked together and were a big family. So I grew up without the 'goth etiquette' because all people around me were punks or metalheads. Yes, back then people had the internet, but normally there was one computer for the whole family. So as a teen, I was lucky if I had two ours in the internet in a whole week. I still learned about bands. I felt like I never fit into the goth scene, because when I was a baby bat I never was able to go to the clubs. If you're whole budget is used up when going to the city, you just can't go to the clubs. So I spent my time again with the punks and metalheads, because they just chilled with some beers in the park and you were welcome to join. I still love literature, the music, the clothing and the feeling. But your channel is the only goth place I feel not alienated.
(Edit: typo)
Yay new video, this should be good🖤⚰️
It irritates me when people dress goth because it’s an ✌🏻Aesthetic✌🏻 without knowing the history behind it
Like it was said, goth doesn't hold the patent to dark themes. People can dress in black without the goth label.
Big Love to Trad Goths still out here keeping it real
Clubs were/are always where it's at. We need to socialized, get OUT of the house, meet people, meet partners, learn about your music and party! Make memories to last a lifetime!! Independent record stores were a great source of information, POSTERS, and T-SHIRTS.
Okay, but I feel like a lot of people fail to realize some people like myself are nuerodivergent and sometimes we face social anxiety so just having others “Go and get out” is just gonna make the social anxiety worsen and make them isolate themselves more.
Don’t get me wrong, as ideal that sounds, some people probably still struggle with social anxiety so the internet is one thing they have comfort to interactions with.
Also, small town goths exist so just saying this to a small town goth isn’t actually going to help. Especially when the town is so small and conservative af and they get super closed minded with music preferences.
Now I do wanna experience goth clubs but we need to build a bit of a comfort zone of online interactions before trying to do meet ups.
Idk sometimes it just comes off that way to me since socializing can be hard for some Nuerodivergent people like me. And the covid doesn’t really help much.
@@XxMoonlightxWishesxX get over yourself.
My teen years were the mid 2000s MySpace era, and I relate so much to this! I miss the treasure hunts for CDs and clothing, saving like hell to afford all that and gig tickets and hiding on trains to avoid paying for the fare because I had nothing left. Every Wednesday I would not eat lunch at school so I could buy Kerrang or Metalhammer.
I still get the excitement and butterflies everytime I hear a new band or song and obsessively listen, granted its easier to do that nowadays!
There are pros and cons to both eras, personally I prefer the 2000s... A time of meeting new people in person and at gigs as a way to discover new music, events and even style inspiration with an added dash of the Internet 🦇
You're a Metalhead, not a Goth....
@@nightchild4468 They never said they were a Goth, they were just relating the video to their own experiences as they were/are also in the alternative scene. They're just in another part of it if that makes sense. The nightlife, collecting CDS, etc, can be a collective and nostalgic experience amongst alternative and darkly inclined teenagers regardless of what they identify as or what subculture they're a part of
@@nightchild4468 hahahahahaha... Is that based on the only two music magazines available to buy at the time from my local small town shop?!
Goths can read about the music industry too, that particular nugget was how I related to getting hangry over spending my money on other stuff to absorb as much as possible in the alt world.
Goths are not tunnel visioned, other genres bleed into and can be appreciated in ones life.
I 'label' myself, not you. You don't know shit :) It is that kind of gate-keeping assuming attitude that can discourage baby bats from joining in the conversation. As @darkgraver said, this video can relate to a whole host of subcultures, not just Goth.
Yess, I love Model Citizen in the background 💘
I was listening to The Cure in the 90's, I'm nearly 36 and found The Cure from the art work on album covers in my dad's collection. I didn't see The Cure live till 2007 and found Type o negative in my teens. I can't wear anything witchy without someone thinking I'm trying to dress like Stevie Nicks.
Bah, wear it anyways if you want to. I'm 37 and too old to care what people think of me.
Then again, I wore a shaved head for several years as a self-esteem experiment...
@@JariDawnchild Yeah definitely, 37 isn't old but I agree we shouldn't care.
That is awesome, I've thought about shaving my head a lot of times, did you find that it made you more confident?
@@jaynesixx2185 I'm not sure if it was a confidence boost or if it lessened my anxiety issues. It was after my daughter was born and holing myself up until I was mentally ready to go out in public with a bald head wasn't an option lol.
@@JariDawnchild It seemed to help both, congratulations on the birth of your daughter and you will be a strong role model.
The lockdowns didn't help my anixety, but once it was over really helped me to go out again in public but I still have panic attacks sometimes.
@@jaynesixx2185 Tyvm, though she's 17 now with a strong bullshitometer, so I at least taught her how to survive the internet lol.
I hear you with the lockdowns being rough. When it lifted here, I figured out precisely how rusty my hard-won social skills had gotten. I've found that, for me, "lubricating my anxiety" as it were (exchanging pleasantries with doctors, quick conversations with store employees at the registers, swapping smartassed comments and a chuckle with fellow customers in passing, etc over the course of daily life) , makes it easier for me to operate halfway-decent when I go out with the intent to socialize. It's still uncomfortable, but more manageable.
When I look back at mt teen years in the 80s I am amazed at all the music from all over the world we would listen to and how we where able to do so. I remember if you got a import of any band how cool you were and how many tapes you would make for your friends. I spent my year book money on Japanese music magazines for bands I liked. Some kids today don't know the dedication it was to love the music you are into.
I was also a teen in the 80's and it was difficult to find out info about bands. I remember buying Star Hits, or was it Smash Hits, because they would actually cover alternative bands. I actually found out about Joy Division by somebody letting me borrow a tape the first week I transferred to another high school in 1987. What really sucked back then was that there were people who wouldn't share music and thought they were better than everybody else for it. There was soooo much of that. I was very lucky, a local radio station would play general 'modern rock' music and I learned about Gene Loves Jezebel and a host of other bands from tuning into that. I also cold bought a ton of goth and punk music back then. That's how I first listened to Samhain and 7 Seconds, they were cold buys. It was actually kind of fun doing that because it was kind of a gamble, but when you found bands that you really, really liked it was a huge reward.
yeah its sad, all of my goth friends are online and i only have 3, i go to hs next year thats so supposed to be huge so hopefully i meet some real goths, having a goth friend group is my biggest dream :)
Good luck young one. 🖤
100% agree. as someone from a super small and conservative town, my only source to goth was the internet. ive moved from that town to somewhere marginally larger, but there's still -2 goth community existing here. it's really frustrating. i just want to lie down in the grass at night and talk about spooky music with some people
gen z goth here!! i've always loved the subculture but have been pretty hesitant to label myself as 'goth,' mainly due to gatekeeping being pretty common among goths nowdays from what i've seen and the overall sense of not feeling 'goth enough.' i'm still really young (a underclassman in high school), and a majority of my peers have labeled me as emo. i know they have no way of knowing my music tastes nor the differences between emo and goth, but it's still super tiring.
while i do love having all of this super easy access to obscure bands and diy ideas that would have been harder to find without the internet -- i do feel like i'm cheating? in a way? i feel like i'm cheating at goth sometimes, especially when compared to the average elder goth's experiences in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.
but at least i know that elder goths didn't have the experience of their picture being taken without their consent during class, and then passed around on social media for the viewing -- and mocking -- pleasure of people they don't even know :/
I feel in a large way that becoming involved in “GOTHS ONLY POSERS KICK ROCKS” online communities becomes a massive fart-huffing circle. It’s so detached from the heart of it in a lot of ways and truthfully? You can’t go to a goth club or festival and not encounter other alternative people. Regardless of anything, the term has been a beacon for people who find themselves on the same wavelength. It is actually pointless to live by the label the way a lot of these gate-keepy people suggest because they each have their own interpretation of it and trying to live by that only fosters inauthenticity and it becomes sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. A no-true-Scotsman fallacy in action. The people who are so concerned, so fucking pressed with this approach of “you can’t use the term without my permission” and it’s then commodified.
So follow your heart. Find what speaks to you regardless of if it passes the test according to the gospel of XxBlo0di_TearzxX . That’s the only way to stay true to the heart of the subculture and you’ll find your footing regardless. If you genuinely like the stuff, it’s not hard to discern from the commercial fluff.
I just wanna say I could listen to you talk about literally anything, you have a fabulous voice.
This took me back to 2004 when my 10 yr old self got onto the family computer and started searching ask jeeves for info about goth music and subculture because I would obsess over the cyber goths anytime I was lucky enough to go to the mall and pass a hot topic back when it was scary and considered obscure to normies. I feel like I had way better luck then than I do now, dial up included. Resources were limited but things were clear and concise. Its mind boggling how things changed so vastly over the recent generations. Everything at my fingertips yet I can't find a decent makeup, hair, or look book tutorial to save my life. All the things that once impacted and shaped me are like phantoms today, did they even exist? Its fascinating to look back at and to see how ease and excess sometimes makes it more difficult.
Nailed it on the button, I get a kick out of when people would just think I am just a punk rocker for having a black denim vest with a Christian Death "Only Theatre Of Pain" back patch yet do not realize that I am in the goth/deathrocker realm as well, sure is a surprise to me how the world has still not figured out that factor how goth/deathrock and the dark punk/post punk factors are what it is that makes the goth/deathrock subculture.
Their razor sharp tongues invite to relax
As they slip the skin of your eyelids back
Invasive spectators get into the act
With roses and candles
Silver knives and spoons
I literally made that my either xanga or live journal entry back in the day holy shit. Oh but I’ve been told 3 times now in the comments I’m
Not goth.
I loooove love videos like this!! My mom was kind of a goth, 100% in the music, literature and movie sense and I was raised with pretty much any music that can remotely and closely be associated w the scene. Plus the movies I was obsessed with like Blade and matrix and really any and all horror movies helped me find even more music and inspiration
Thankyou for this video, another great topic touched on.definatly stuff that needed to be said. 🖤🖤🖤
Yep, I remember getting club passes at trash and vaudeville for the Bank. As far as records I got me cd's at Generation Records, there were so many music shops in the village it was a goldmine 👍
When you described a modern goth finding music I couldn't help but laugh at how true that was. I mean really the only work you have to do nowadays is typing.
As a 30 year old goth, I kinda feel like this is just a different flavor of the same shit I've always had to deal with. Today, everyone thinks Soundcloud rappers are goth, and in my day everyone thought nu metal and emo were goth. Today, everyone wants a big tiddy goth gf and in my day everyone wanted a Suicide Girl. It can be annoying, but I've learned to accept not everyone is working with the same definition of the word "goth" that I am. Of course, I live in a small conservative Southern town and when the only person who doesn't think you're a devil worshiper or a potential mass murderer thinks the epitome of goth is Slipknot or Lil Peep, sometimes its better to just agree to disagree. At the end of the day, other people not knowing what goth is has never impeded my ability to enjoy goth music, so I've learned to pick my battles when it comes to these things.
As someone who loves goth music, though, sometimes I do wish more people even knew what it actually was. Still, I usually find its better to befriend these people and introduce them to the music that I love than to just dismiss those people outright. Sometimes people are just never going to get into goth music no matter what you do, but I love those moments when I can get people to fall in love with a goth song who never even would have heard anything like it otherwise.
We knew that "nu metal" and "emo" weren't really Goth.
Thank you, Angela. Due to your very informative video, now i became invested in learning about what goth trully is
I'm so glad! I wish you lots of info and fun on your journey!
Such an interesting perspective in terms of access, which actually got me reminiscing about my early Goth daze (mid 1980’s). In so many ways, I feel as if my friends and I had it a bit easier than current Goths - you could get a fake ID at any check cashing store in under 10 mn for a couple of bucks, then roll to a Goth club in SF without question. If we were all in the same place, we were ONE, and the bonding began (at 3am post hrs of dancing, over breakfast and clove cigs lol). We all exchanged badly dubbed tapes of unknown bands, spent hours browsing records and purchasing based on cover art at around $5 a pop (for imports no less!), and the hunt was exiting! We had a “can on a string” sort of info line with Goths in other cities and states; bands and their friends traveled back and forth for gigs or clubbing and you made even more friends. Oh and those lengthy drives or public transpo trips to parties far far away!… I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention how easy it was to find beautiful vintage 1920-1940’s velvet dresses and coats purchased for pennies back then, which could easily be found in vintage stores because absolutely no one wanted them… With all of my rambling, I guess what comes up for me here is the need for human connection, and how the internet contributes to isolation and misinformation, although in theory/on paper such access should be a key to open numerous doors. Ya can’t google your way into an experience - esp if the “knowledge” being presented is completely amiss, and/or harmful.
when i was a babybat 5ish years ago, i religiously watched your videos for information about the subculture. And i am really grateful for that.
That warms my heart to hear. Thank you so much!
Good Night Angela,
thank you for bringing this stuff up like you do.
I was living in the Bay Area & Sacramento in the 2000. Still was able to visit some decent goth clubs back then.
However being immersed into the scene since the early nineties in Berlin it appeared to me as a sad fun fact that Americans played more German goth bands than the local dj's in German clubs.
Now being back in Berlin, there are just a very view of those legendary clubs left. Still one in particular is still alive since 1992 and tonight I will appear there as every Monday.
It is like in the nineties being among likeminded souls who feel like misfits in the "ordinary world". Every now and then some "ordinary people" rush into that club and are wondering what kind of cult is going on with those black phenomenons swaying upon the dance floor. Some of those "tourists" are open some of them are repelled ... since all the sudden they feel like misfits.
It warmed my heart when you mentioned Corpus Delicti ☺️ they were actually the first band I picked out when I started listening to the Cathedral13 radio 🖤 but I started getting into goth in fall 2019 so I instantly found them on RUclips.
I was born in 1995 though so I thankfully grew up when social media wasn’t that toxic yet and know my mindful way around it. I don’t even have tiktok or instagram and instantly searched for informative websites that are actually by people in the scene, joined a discord server and listened to interviews (and found your lovely channel!) but I regularly have to explain to my 15-year-old sister how to get around the internet without getting your head completely fucked. *sigh*
A good way to fight against misinformation whenever I see a friend or someone on Facebook or Instagram who remotely wants to learn about the Goth and Alternative subcultures I share them some playlists I made on Spotify, some RUclipsrs, or make them a new playlist on RUclips with all subgenres and styles I can, share the links, and give them some explanation about everything I know about it, next I show them as much pictures on the different fashion styles and explain them the variants. Yeah, it's a hard work but I love the music and the fashion so I do it for love.
It's worth the effort. I do the exact same thing.
lol at *"BULLSHIZZ QUIZZES"* !
yeah I'm not surprised that there is some magazine out there that goes bananas whenever a celebrity wears anything that's goth like. just because someone wears anything that's goth inspired doesn't mean that they are a goth. they just happened to like certain aspects of the goth fashion and make up and decided to incorporate it into their style or look ... or they're maybe just getting payed to look that way - either one or the other. it's unfortunate that you have to sift through all the crap to get the information that you need on the things that spark your interest. welcome to the internet folks.
You make goth feel accessible. Thank you for having an approachable vibe.
Hi Angela! once again you stay keeping the goth scene alive. If I ever want to get info, as a baby bat, I go to you. You speak the truth, you're real about what you need to say and I'm so thankful for it. Currently, I'm dealing with this issue. I can't find anyone that actually is passionate about the music as I am, nowadays everyone just cares about looking cool on the surface but know nothing about the scene. And it leaves me feeling bitter because I get called "emo" or that it's all a phase but then I think about the few things I have at hand and one of them is your channel. All the videos I've seen, all the info and stories you tell, help me so much. I've been a huge fan for a while too so thank you and I love u🖤
As a 35 year old Goth, I can assure you that it is not a phase.
Yeah, the kids have NOOOOOO idea. Hell, most adults who lived this don't remember the concepts of "waiting for things in the mail" that don't ship in 2 days...
And...given the saturation, are subcultures over? That's a whole other video I suppose...
I still live those days. Just for fun, I order random CD's and vinyl records from new Goth bands on Bandcamp- without listening to the music first. I ordered Lycea- and was blown away. This is my way of supporting the scene.
As someone that likes to consider myself a baby bat due to my obsession with the music, art, fashion, and overall culture, it can be annoying when people think I’m in a “phase” or whatever. I’m 26 though so I frankly don’t give a damn anymore, and feel I’ve had a lot more time compared to a 15 yr old baby bat to essentially navigate and grow into what I love, and don’t love. After I finally met elder goths a few yrs back, I realized I was listening to the same music and loving the same stuff as them basically my entire life. It was refreshing to not feel a sense of gatekeeping like I did when I was in 7th grade, when I attempted to get to know baby bats my own age. They thought I was trying to “copy” them, but really I just wanted to find things that appealed to me. Of course I still have times where I want to listen/watch something not exactly “goth” at all, but when I was younger I felt I’d never be welcome because of those alternative interests. Thanks to how welcoming the community currently has felt to me, I started finally dressing how I always wanted to, being more open about what I enjoy, and feeling the confidence I never truly felt before. 🖤
As a 35 year old Goth who has been in the subculture for 20 years, I can assure you that it is not a phase.
same
I’m 51.
Yes! This! Thank you for saying this!
And the journey you described to find a decent record store for a goth cd in the 90s.... I felt that in my bones.
This is it, the video I've been looking for. I didn't understand why I love goth music and themes, but feel uneasy and put off trying to look up information about it. Thank you SO much for this clarity
The fact that information on Goth is so accessible these days yet fewer people than ever seem to know what Goth is never ceases to amaze me!
It has gotten to the point where I rarely even claim the Goth tag unless I'm aware that whoever I'm around really knows what Goth is.
Thank you for creating this video.
Angela I'm not gonna lie, I only know what goth is because you showed up on my fyp one day 😭 and you're definitely right, it's weirdly hard to find anything pertaining to goth even though it should be so easy. The only bands I've found have been through you or tiktok, which is sad because I've been interested in goth since 2020. The sad thing about the internet is that misinformation can be spread super easily, which I assume is why people think that e-girls with a darker aesthetic and Lil peep are goth/emo, I've even heard emos get called goth 😭 I feel like most subcultures have been reduced to just an aesthetic nowadays, since in 2020 being "alt" was so popular, but where are all of those people now? It was just for clout
This message is soo underrated. Great points you highlighted and explanation
It's never hard to watch you and your videos.
Thank you for keeping it real and letting the younger know what it was like.
I really miss going into record stores and discovering new music playing overhead or on random mixtapes given out as purchase gifts
I totally agree that it is hard to join anything alternative these days, too many people just want to follow a trend without knowing the history. I grew up as an alternative in a time, place that had only a handful of people who were alternative and it was hard to find information. I was labeled as going to hell, told to stop wearing all that black shit, and was given a very hard time. Though I am grateful for technology today, because I'm actually being corrected on things that I totally got wrong as a teenager in the early 2000s. I'm so thankful to the elder goths that I have come across on RUclips. You are amazing! Thank you so much for your wisdom!
Social media has made all the things I loved growing up into a joke, like Black Metal, hunting through the Ezine's ...etc it was work to find something that was special to you.
I mail ordered so many CD's, getting that ultra rare print with the artwork and sitting down that night after school to give it a listen, happy times. Also sneaking into dive bars to see shows
Love this and you're so right. And I felt glee and pain when remembering ordering albums through the mail. 🖤