CLUELESS pilot causes multiple RUNWAY INCURSIONS..gets humiliated!
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- #atc
#aviation
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Who hired Joe Pesci to be a ground controller?
😂
😂
Where you goin you motherfucker you !?!?
"One dog goes one way da udder one goes the udder way the guy in the middle says HEY wadddya want from me"!?
A double incursion and no number?
Not sure if the animation is accurate, but as depicted, there was actually a 3rd as he entered again before cleared
Yeah, I was about to comment on that, too. I assume that the animation of that was in error because the controller would have really blown her top if that really happened.
Problems on both sides with this. This is Norwood Municipal Airport in Norwood Massachusetts. I've flown in and out of there myself. It is not a difficult airport at all to navigate. While the controller doesn't say 'hold short runway 10' in his initial taxi instructions, the standard procedure would be to taxi to the runway and hold at the hold short line. I never cross a runway unless I get specific instructions to do so.
The second incursion is where there's some shared responsibility. The controller tells the pilot to turn around and hold short of runway 10. The pilot reads back the turn around instruction, but doesn't repeat the hold short instruction. The controller should have corrected him at this point, but didn't.
It's more than just standard procedure. A clearance to taxi to a runway doesn't give clearance to enter onto that runway. Ever.
There is no shared responsibility here. The pilot is 100% at fault and the controller used correct phraseology. He was right in believing that his clear and stern instructions would be followed.
Yes, the pilot didn't read back the hold short part the second time, but we can't get into setting a precedent that pilots only read back the parts of the clearance that they want to follow, do whatever they want, and put it back on the controller to restate every instruction.
@@mtnairpilot As to your first point, that was a poor choice of words on my part. A taxiway clearance is certainly never a runway clearance. I guess I'll chalk that one up to insufficient caffeine...
As to your second point, it's not a question of restating. The controller told the pilot specifically to 'hold-short', and the pilot did not read that back. Instructions like that require a read back, and the pilot's failure to do so should have indicated to the controller that the pilot either didn't hear, didn't understand, or didn't intend to comply with that instruction. The pilot was certainly at-fault for the second runway incursion, but the controller should have insisted he read back that hold-short instruction. Failure to read back controller instructions can get you in as much trouble as not following the instructions themselves.
@@kmoore02809sorry man, but technically, just like the first time, he didn’t have to tell him that he had to hold short. It was a taxi instruction to a runway for take off. The only time a hold short instruction is given, is when you are going to cross a runway. Now, he didn’t say “hold short”, because he wanted to reiterate the rule, not because it was an instruction.
How do these clueless pilots even have access to the cockpit is really shocking.
DEI
I have no idea what level that pilot is but I'm going to assume they are a beginner... It's unclear if the controller gave them a number to dial after but I think the controller is actually using a fairly reasonable tone. The controller is demonstrating that the pilot screwed up through their voice but is also explaining how they screwed up. If it is indeed a inexperienced pilot, even at a small airport like this, things can get confusing. Pilots and controllers both make mistakes and in this case the mistake was clearly on the pilot. My guess is they got flustered after their first mistake and it compounded the situation, leading to more errors. It's unfortunate but it could have been a lot worse. Sometimes we learn the hard way. Every pilot is going to make a mistake at some point (even far more experienced pilots do). So while non-pilots may look at an incident and shake their heads, fellow pilots tend to have more empathy because we have all been there. We have all done something stupid before. Admittedly this pilot repeated the failure which adds to the gravity of the situation but even so, it's not beyond comprehension, a pilot making a mistake and getting shaken by it and thus making more mistakes. The important thing is that the pilot learns from this. As a pilot, we are always still students. A pilot's license is a license to learn.
@@bertengineerlook at you, you learned another 3 letter acronym. Were you not hired for a job once?
Same way 15 years old drive a daddy truck…PPL in America is not WOW. Everyone can have it in two three weeks
Launching this guy up under Boston Bravo? Sheesh, I wouldn't want that on my call.
Obviously the pilot is totally confused, but the controller is just adding to the confusion level bt dressing him down. A firm, but calm, appraoch to the situation would have been the way to go. Best wishes to both of them.
He must be a new pilot or someone who hasn't flown in a long time. He needs a refresher course for sure.
Who in the hell is giving these people their pilots license.
Fair question, i guess
I live near a small airport. Doing circuits seems to be a "thing" for the flight school. So how exactly are these people supposed to get real flying experience? It's like reading the beginning and end of a book. At least fly to a different airport!
@@JoeSmith-ig3pr Because flying in the middle of the air, after you've got that down, doesn't improve skills.
The area where you need the most practice is when you get to the edges, especially at the bottom.
@@peterstickney7608Of course.
@@peterstickney7608 Yeah okay but if you're always at the same airport you don't get to learn that sometimes airport configurations aren't what they seem to you (as someone used to just one airport)...
Pilot did some mistakes , and controller is not helping either , 😖✈️
I've heard that controller before, he doesn't seem to be any help. Pilot obviously doesn't understand whats up but a "controlled controller" could get him on track
The second time, the pilot did not repeat the hold short instruction, only the "contact tower when ready". Ground should have caught that and made him repeat it. Having said that, the pilot is way over his head. Needs a lot more training.
Another pilot who shouldn’t be a pilot.
I learned to fly at Norwood and runway 10 isn’t marked very well and I can see how you would accidentally cross it without noticing… but lining up is something else.
The numbers are almost 1000 feet from where 5AF is at. No idea time of day or condition of markings.
Not a pilot, but don't you just know the runways by looking at your compass? Runway 10 goes east.
The 5AF pilot is a menace. I don't care if it's a language barrier or inexperience, but he shouldn't be allowed to pilot an aircraft without further training and an examination.
Having heard many of these same incidents, I think it's safe to say that if you can't read and speak English fluently and clearly, you should not be allowed to fly an airplane in the US. A line has to be drawn for the safety of everyone. I can't believe the guy didn't have to call the number.
Thats actually already a requirement, but its super vague
To cross an active runway without clearance is a fundamental safety violation, not necessarily linked to proficiency in English. Distractions or lack of preparation could be contributing factors, but blaming language skills particularly for this scenario seems misplaced in this context.
@@Flight_Follower Maybe, maybe not. The instructions he repeated back, were NOT the instructions he was given at least once. Also, reading airport signage may be a challenge if english is a second language of limited proficiency. In the written tests, the color and design of airport signage tells you if it's a taxiway or a runway. And written questions can be passed by simply matching a "03" and the appropriate coloration with an answer of "03" without having an actual understanding.
@@Flight_Follower but knowing English fluently does allow you to give the controller seemingly competent reply while potentially screwing up everything else yet still being able to make highbrow comments here on how those filthy foreigners shouldn't be flying...
If you can not taxi down the single taxiway without crossing active runway twice, you should really think VERY hard if you want to take off
My question is, why was the first plan on this video, it should have been 4 min shorter.
It seems to me that the controller was not clear in his instructions and is super aggressive.
They said "Hold short runway 10, switch to tower when ready." They were clear, just a little aggressive, also that mic with the gain turned up doesn't help.
What was unclear?
He Said "hold short" what's unclear about that? 😮
Surprised he let him take off, rather than return to base for some instruction.
the plane is owned by PLANE NONSENSE INC, which seems very accurate.
American has such a ridiculous radio telecommunications skill. So unprofessional
The controler on the ground has this "New York tang" to his voice which is very argumentative sounding like he's screaming every word ! I would have trouble even speaking to this individual ! What is he doing in this job ? YUTS ! HE NEEDS VOICE COACHING TO BE ABLE TO RETAIN THIS POSITION !
Almost every GA pilot here makes poor radio calls using non standard phraseology.
Could not agree more.
Alfa foxtrot... That is one Big Bravo Foxtrot
Imagine if the nearby citizens on the ground knew how often severely incompetent pilots regularly, and incompetently, fly airplanes right over their homes. A Cessna 172, 1 ton of aluminum and gasoline, with zero brains at the controls just overhead.
Kellyem33 has a valid point. The ATC didn’t issue a holdshort rwy10 to any of the 3 airplanes. Granted, if I’m approaching a rwy and I was not given a holdshort; I will contact ATC and verify. The best analogy I can relate to, a gun, ALWAYS treat it as if it’s loaded ‘til you verify it.
doesn't matter, you still need (tower) clearance to go on the runway. Even though it sounds like the same person.
A taxi to a runway clearance has a built-in hold short requirement. You’re not authorized onto the runway you are given a taxi clearance to.
I'm not an expert but I thought it was a rule to not cross another runway or even enter the runway you are expecting to take off on without permission. That fact that he crossed it and kept going tells me he was not situationally aware on where he was... And the runways are SIGNED and a different color than the taxi way... Maybe he got distracted in the cockpit and didn't realize he crossed it...
@@secondrule I actually think he saw the runway right in front of him when he taxied out and assumed it was that runway and his confirmation bias blinded him to all the facts otherwise. He only had to follow the guy in front of him. A taxi to clearance authorizes a pilot to cross all runways and taxiways enroute, except for the runway assigned, unless given a specific hold short
Taxi to a runway for take off never includes a hold short instruction. Hold short instructions are only given if you expect to cross a runway.
So, taxi to runway 10 will not have it. If taxiing to 16 and have to cross 10, the instruction would be: taxi to runway 16 via taxiway Yankee and Alpha, hold short runway 10.
Great project Mr Barry!
I know the pilot is at fault but yelling at him does not help. Norwood is not so busy that the tower person could have told him not to move until he gets the other aircraft out. He then could have mitigated the situation with some calm instructions and it would have also given the pilot time to regroup. Tower should have immediately recognized there was a language issue. The tower person is not a rookie. I am local and he has been working that tower for years.
In New York, that isn't "yelling" that's communicating the severity of the situation. 😅
@@cobblerwillorange I know, I fly into KFRG and KHPN. 😊
Sometimes you need to have the introspectively to know that today just isn’t your day to fly!
These are the same clowns who wouldn’t be talking or squawking at uncontrolled fields whom I was in several near mid-air collisions with back in my corporate jet days.
Every time I hear that Indian accent on the frequency, I immediately go into red alert mode and cringe.
Legitimate question, why didn't the tower controller just have him take the southern departure and then fly east instead of doing a full one eighty getting back on runway ten
Yeah, with winds 190 @ 10, I was a little curious why they are using runway 10 and not 17? Maybe 17 was closed for some reason?
The relevant part begins at 4:20
Hmm. Maybe that was the pilots issue?? IYKYK
WOW!
5AF is clearly not proficient in airport operations. He should get a BFR before entering controlled airspace. The controller's screeching tenor helped nobody.
You might be surprised how your voice sounds in a stressful situation. I can almost guarantee you don't sound like you think you sound.
How do people like this get a pilots license. Should be revoked for this stunt.
Maybe reviewed
Except he doesn't have a pilot license. He's a student pilot doing his first solo. It's stated in the video
@@Flight_Follower So many incorrect subtitles. Yeah the STUDENT PILOT** is in the wrong but work on your subtitles if you're going to criticize.
He didn’t get a phone number to call?
Apparently…he didn’t…
He should have. I can only imagine that, since the controller was working all the positions combined, maybe they did not want to deal with it. Also possible he got it later, since the tape ended prior to the frequency change.
Why wasn't he given a pilot deviation? Runway incursion twice!
The snowbird ATC'ers are pretty lax!!!
Shit ATC. Controller didn't even correct him back when he didn't say hold short rwy 10.. It was as though the controller wanted him to make mistakes and take off his steam on this guy
"Can I get a progressive taxi?" WOW!
lol, i would have asked "you want progressive taxi to the runway youre already on?"
OK kids, it's really simple. When you see a RED sign with a number a dash and another number (like 17-35), that's a runway crossing. We stop. OK? We stop, and ask daddy for permission. The taxiway you're on will be a black background with a yellow square and a yellow letter on the left side of the same RED sign. So many 300 MHz Celerons with no ATC cache in this world. Let's not even talk about the hold-short lines on the ground...
I just looked up N445AF and it's registered to a company called "Plane Nonsense Inc".
Em, I wonder where else this pilot gets yelled at.
can someone tell me why runway 10 was in use when the wind was 190@10? thats a 90 degree crosswind. runway 17 makes more sense.
Listen to the recording, Winds were 09010. The transcript is incorrect.
Next time, write it out on an airport diagram or get a progressive taxi.
Let me guess… He was on his way to Oshkosh
Once he made the mistake and was sitting on 10 the controller should've cleared him but gave him a phone number to call.
And I cannot believe that controller is a man. "He" sounds like my Aunt Edna from Brooklyn.
Haha 😅😅
let not make fun of someone’s voice
No possible pilot deviation...nice controller
Indeed
It's always the pilots with the foreign accent.
“Always”?
@@Flight_Follower "Always."
@@niteowlificationno it’s not.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Yes it is and you're covering for murderous pilots.
The pilot clearly breached protocol, but the ground controller is the worst ever, talks to fast, hard to understand, and very aggressive which does not help anybody or any situation. The controller really needs to consider employment options in another field other than aviation.
Controller did fine. And definitely didn’t talk fast.
No pilot deviation?
I am surprised OPS wasn't called to have this pilot checked out. One gaffe I can see, but this was a sequence of gaffes - beyond a faux pas.
shlomo the controllah
I remember this airport from another video when a Cirrus pilot was getting the wrong departure instructions and kept taxiing the wrong way.
I heard the clearance charlie and alpha;
Okk
@@Flight_Follower Alpha is past rwy 10. It was the controller who created the issue. He also did not issue a hold short instruction. And wow, what an unprofessional jerk atc. Still, takes two to tango and the pilot should not have proceeded on R10 and should have noticed the previous flight used R10, and what the ATIS said. Language barrier was also a factor.
@@kellyem33 The clearance limit on the taxi instruction is Runway 10. Although taxiway Alpha reaches to Alpha 1 at runway 17, the controller stating Runway 10 Taxi Via Charlie, Alpha" implies that you are to hold short of the runway, because of the clearance limit. A "hold short" instruction is also not relevant to this specific clearance unless the taxi route required a runway crossing to reach the hold short line. No matter what, you must need a clearance to cross runway hold short bars, and are also required to read back the instruction, as noted in most ATIS'. Language barrier also seems to be a non issue here the pilot and controller communicate mostly fine besides the pilots nonstandard phraseology at time. To line up on an active runway like that without a deliberate clearance takes a lot of skill.
@@Grannyok3 alpha is at the far end of the taxiway, beyond R10. Alpha does not mean hold short, ever.
@@kellyem33 I’d invite you to reread my comment or review the airport diagram. Your response doesn’t contextually make sense with what I said
The absolute failure of the FAA is amazing but unfortunately not surprising. The fact this is a daily occurrence in the US is due to the FAA failing to maintain standards for the certification of pilots and the issuance of certificates and ratings to people who clearly do not meet minimum standards. For many years I witnessed a steady decline in the professionalism of many pilots and their lack of ability to maintain basic standards. The DPE or DPE’s who issued this pilot a certificate or rating should be ashamed of themselves. And the POI supervising the DPE should be equally embarrassed.
Not sure why the controller just didn't let him take off on 17 as the wind was favoring that runway anyway.
Good question! I Don’t think the atc handled the situation that well
Don't know, maybe A/C on another frequency was in that area.
If you listen carefully to the ATC audio, the controller states "Wind 090 @ 10." Not 190 which the subtitles suggests.
again here we go with language barrier.
I don’t think language barrier was the issue here…
@@Flight_Follower it just seems with ALL the vids where a person doesnt speak english as first language and old people they dont want to/cant follow instructions.
If you have an accent they should call the usaf if you deviate more than .0001 degrees.
Yet another ESL failure.
I've seen native English speakers do equally boneheaded maneuvers
I don't know who handled this worse, the pilot or the controller. The female, with that irritating voice, bashes the pilot of Alpha Foxtrot for crossing the runway without permission. No lady, had you been scanning your movement areas, this would not have happened. And then to tell him to vacate the runway after taxiing into position was just stupid. Yes, he may have been a little disoriented but once he confirmed he was aligned with runway 10, she should have just got him the hell out of there. And why the hell was runway 10 being used to begin with. Wind was out of the south at ten knots and runway 17 wasn't the active? Yes, chasing the wind when considering runway assignments suck and perhaps the wind was variable that day but damn, come on!
Couldn’t agree more with you
Just one issue
The ATC is actually a male who kinda sounds like a female
@@Flight_Follower Oh, my God! Really?
Yup..listen carefully
@@Flight_Follower Listening to the audio again. With all the hollering, I guess I just assumed the controller was female. :)
Ikr.. even i got nervous 😆
Phone number to call?
No speak-a da English
one of the reasons I no longer fly after 20 years of airtime. Way to many incompetent "pilots" out there now...things have declined steadily year after year. For me it was always about flying for fun, my personal safety is more important.
Diversities make aviation dangerous. That airport was thoroughly enriched