The reason this was so dangerous is because it reinforced the pilot's belief that he can always just cancel IFR and duck under the weather and make things work. If you have an instrument rating, you need to maintain proficiency to fly IFR and that means understanding how to fly an approach. Let me know what you think in the comments below and then be sure to also watch the video about the Dad that was taking his family on vacation and crashed 👉 ruclips.net/video/yMpLo1zFGWc/видео.html
No iPad means he doesn't have the approach plate. Maybe he was trying to shoot the approach with the iPad but that would stupid. Idk man... it sounds to me like he wasn't current.
@pilot-debrief I can't imagine canceling an instrument approach with RNAV, VOR, and especially ILS available in the weather. I'd rather go into the hold and pull the plate up on my phone than whatever decision he made.
1900 ft broken is about as easy an instrument approach as you can get. This guy managed to turn it into an emergency. The fact that he was using his iPad as a primary flight instrument for shooting the approach is shocking. Kudos to the controller for an excellent job
@superbmediacontentcreator given the comments about his next two legs having similar troubled approaches, I wonder if his iPad was ever working on this trip
@@carlosa7807 True, except that the field elevation is over 500 ft and it’s a mountainous area. The approach plate shows a minimum safe altitude of 4100 ft within 25 miles of the airport. He was very lucky to live through this.
@@dougg64674,100 ft MSL in a 25 mile radius area takes the very highest terrain or obstacle and adds 2,000 ft in a mountainous terrain area. Realistically, that highest point could be miles and miles away from the area you’re operating in. 2,000 ft is a pretty big margin. This guy was still a moron nonetheless.
Just a wild musing here…. I wonder if it was just a Six-Pack… and he had Google Maps on his phone after his iPad died… pilot mentioned he could not find the Nav Point on his GPS … SOOOO MUCH wrong in that aircraft
THIS PILOT IS JUST LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO FLY ANOTHER DAY. HE NEEDS TO STAY PROFICIENT AND KEEP OUT OF DANGER. WHEW! THAT WAS A CLOSE ONE. THOSE HIGH MOUNTIAN PEAKS CAN QUICKLY RISE UP AND SMITE YOU
@@TheCatLady65You must be one of those clowns that thinks the world should step aside while you do whatever the hell you'd like. No matter who it puts in danger. Effing fool
My guess is that he was, but he remained professional in spite of that and did everything he needed to do to ensure a positive outcome. Hats off to him.
@@grundged I guarantee once the pilot landed the other airport called this tower back and said "hey remember the guy you warned us about?..... Well he landed here, but on the WRONG side of the flippin runway!"
oh... He was PISSED I think he is the kind of guy whos anger is very quiet... but I think there was some real rage in those final few communications. and yes, he did an awesome job despite being basically hampered all the way...
I commend the controller trying to help this pilot who was so confused, I really hope the pilot didn't fly again until he got some proper training. Thank you Hoover I really appreciate how you respect all involved in your debriefs.
Yeah, Kudos to the controller, I was expecting a Gunnery Sergeant Hartman impression: [raising his voice] What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? Didn't Mommy and Daddy show you enough attention when you were a child?. I bet some controllers internal monologues dealing with certain pilots would make decent video.😄
@@R.Sole88109 Yes, thanks for the laughs. 👍👍 In reality, one of the most desirable traits of any authority figure is how they act under stress, or even extreme stress. Can they handle it.
This is crazy. That’s my plane. I just bought it April of this year. I know exactly who that is, Jerry Pipes. He also did not pay for the Garmin subscription for the very capable GNS 430W. After this flight in December he flew to another location and clipped the top of trees with the left wingtip. He had it repaired repaired and put it up for sale in late March. We closed on in April. You will see Apple Valley in May is me doing training in the Mooney with my instructor. It blows my mind he kept flying even after this crazy flight in Oct. two months later he was in accident.
I was gonna go looking for pics from the sales ad to see if it had an onboard GPS.....thanks for saving me the trouble! Did this guy not even know that he could hit the "direct to" button and find that IAF in the database? Or select the Martinsburg Airport, then hit the "Proc" button, select and load the approach? It's not like the approach is so new it won't be in the database. How do you pass an instrument checkride without being able to do this?
Can concur, I flew it in April and after putting in a current GPS database everything worked great including the autopilot being coupled to the Garmin 430. Aircraft even had 4 USB power sockets on board for charging. Can’t fathom how the previous owner could get so behind the plane.
I looked him up in the Airmen database. He's the only Jerry Pipes in the database and he's out of Louisiana. This pilot does not have an instrument rating. His medical expired 3/2024. He probably had no idea how to load and follow an approach in the 430W or King LOC/ILS indicators in his aircraft The aircraft back in 2012 had an STEC 50 AP as well so it should have been no problem getting into MRB. I fly a TR182 out of LKU with a 430W and STEC 60-2 with flight director. I was based at HEF near IAD for 20 years with a 172, 182RG then a TR182. MRB is an easy airport in IFR conditions but I couldn't believe that this pilot appeared to be flying IFR solely dependent upon an Ipad and with no knowledge of the capabilities of his aircraft. MRB is 565 MSL just west over the Blue Ridge foothills in the Shenandoah Valley--pretty low terrain where he was navigating, like 2100-2300 MSL but he just got lucky. Potomac Approach controllers are excellent but you need to tell them what you want....if I were approach control knowing the ceilings at MRB and the pilot's situation I would have suggested declaring an emergency for him, vectored him to intercept the 080 approach course, then told him to establish a vertical descent rate in an attempt to get him below the clouds in order to give him a contact approach clearance (not knowing then that he was not instrument rated). There is plenty of room in that area to perform this but I'm just armchair quarterbacking.
Right! lol....I mean by his logic what does that mean (IPAD is now dead). Is the plan to crash after that happens? Sure sounded like he had NO backup plan.
Dose anyone know the instrument load out on this aircraft, I bet it’s one of the old lat/long 1st gen GPS units and the CDI don’t work correctly. The only way that his argument about the iPad and cross referencing reff point would even be close to logical.
Likewise but only in a car. Concussions & more have given me certain limits but thankfully I still have great night vision at 67 and some minor racing in my past. Beware the nose-picking texting Range Rover owner!
I was involved with early development of a class II EFB (handheld device showing moving maps, IFR plates, etc) and at the time, the FAA did not allow us to show our ownship on the moving map, because they believed pilots would become too dependent on a non-certified device for primary navigation. This incident is exactly what they were trying to avoid.
I'm not a pilot but I have watched a few videos and noted iPads being used for approach plates and GPS location and wondered to myself if that was legal (since it's just consumer electronics) and or how many people have an over reliance on it for positioning. Sounds like it's a real issue then, at least for some.
Here’s the flip side of that coin… an ipad with an external GPS device utilizing WAAS (such as a Garmin GDL52) is more accurate than an ILS by a significant amount. Yet the only reason pilots aren’t allowed to use this method, is because it’s not certified and permanently mounted in the aircraft. But the operational capability of foreflight and a GDL52 is literally higher than an ILS and definitely higher than a VOR.
@@VictoryAviationyou should also get AHRS as a backup with that. The mini sentry ADSB offers it with claimed 1m accuracy. There is a cascading set of problems in the plane if reliance on an iPad is the last resort. Failure of a TSO installed GPS, vacuum pump failure, VOR failure, power failure, getting yourself into a problem with low fuel with poor planning, etc. Now if all that happens or I just happen to be gliding in to an airport deadstick in IFR, then in navigating with the iPad 😂
@@volvo09iPad is fine for redundancy or an aid, but shouldn’t be the primary tool, which is how it sounds like this pilot was using it. You should know they airplane and know how everything on it works, otherwise you end up in this situation where the iPad dies and you’re in trouble because you don’t know how to fly the plane without it. He said he was using the iPad to confirm his GPS, but it sounds like he didn’t know how to use the GPS and was just using the iPads GPS. Plates on an iPad is fine but you should absolutely have paper copies as well. Consumer electronics aren’t made for a lot of this stuff and shouldn’t be trusted to this extent.
Hoover, you’re incredibly valuable to us who are trying to understand why these pilots get into trouble in what seems to be a typical flight. Arrogance, overconfidence appear to be contributing factors in so many. Thank you for your channel.
His IFR "hack" was his iPad. He would steer the plane so the blue dot on the iPad hits the waypoints. Easier than entering all those characters into his nav equipment. Genius.
After all of that mess with a dead iPad and complete confusion about the operation of the onboard nav equipment, even a quasi-proficient IFR pilot would've accepted a tried and true precision ILS approach. Personally, I'd take an ILS over an RNAV approach any old day. Something is seriously amiss here and I hope the FAA figures it out before this guy starts recklessly divebombing holes in the deck again. That endangers more than just him! PS Kudos to the controller. If patience is a virtue, that controller should be canonized.
The controller knew the guy was struggling and tried to help him the best he could. The pilot thought he knew how to fly IFR but really did not! The pilot should have declared an emergency earlier on.
I agree with you except on the ILS part. I do prefer the RNAV, it guides you by grabbing you by the hand, provided you have a modern good GPS avionics installed.
@@davisandotube ILS wont do anything different than the RNAV here - they will point him at the glideslope and localizer and the needles will do the exact same thing that his ipad or an onboard GPS would have done. It would be legal, safe and probably working regardless of his ipad battery, so why not just take the ILS? So strange.
These debriefs are fantastic in keeping us safe, I have learnt so much from your breakdowns of what went wrong and how to avoid dangerous scenarios. Thank you Hoover for your content and service
The fact that he didn’t accept vectors onto an ILS is “wow.” That’s as simple as it gets, all you need to do is tune a frequency. It’s like his brain had one path it needed to follow and he couldn’t even consider anything else.
I am not a pilot, but when much younger did get to fly being shown a lot about the aircraft. This was before most craft had GPS and I have to say that VOR seemed pretty easy. Dial a frequency and follow the needle until you’re on top of it.
Sounds possibly like what they call “Plan Continuation Bias”, aka get-there-itis. The podcast Cautionary Tales did a great episode on this, (actually where I learned the term), if you’re interested the episode is called “Danger- Rocks Ahead!” Only in that case the Captain was a very experienced sailor, (unlike the pilot in this video 😬).
Possibly because he didn't have an Instrument Rating. He was determined to cancel IFR to find a hole in the clouds. An ILS would have been so much easier.
Controller had the patience of a saint which he really shouldn't have needed to have. Sheesh. Give that dude a raise, genuinely, or at the very least pilot should be sending a thank you (hopefully not pissed at the controller for the extta training he definitely needs).
As they said, if the controller lost his temper or declared an emergency on behalf of the pilot, he would just further stress him out. In a situation like that all that really matters is getting the aircraft safely on the ground. It’s like dealing with a kid who is holding a loaded firearm, you don’t yell and berate, you just focus on getting everyone safely out of a bad situation, then you can get angry later
I used to know a retired air traffic control guy. He described his job as 'playing video games with people's lives'. Videos like this give me newfound respect for him and all others who work in that field
Nice. A lot to learn from and no one died this time. The controller was just fantastic. The type you need when in trouble. prioritising to get you 'safely' on the ground. One can deal with the pilot's errors later.
how is this not a licence revoked ? lied to the tower and tried to do an illegal approach all while messing around and causing issues for the controllers and other aircraft before he decided to just go below the clouds himself and then land the wrong way ? how is that just a more training situation.
@AnythingForSouls There could be several possible reasons the FAA was kinder to the pilot than expected. #1 He may have shown true remorse and expressed an understanding of how much trouble he caused. Maybe he caught the Arbiter of his case on a good day. Contrition and humility are increasingly rare in these times, which makes them a bit more effective when expressed. It could also be simply that the outcome after he took control and completed the flight visually (even if breaking rules unsafely) was not worse.
@@transparentaluminum True - he might have also lost his primary IFR navigation system in the aircraft, and was relying on the ipad. We don't know the whole story.
@@dermicknah, 5 minutes into the video the controller asks if the pilot and plane are IFR capable and and pilot says "that is all correct". The correct response would be "no, my main avionics failed, and my backup iPad is at 8% battery".
@@PsRohrbaugh True - he should have confessed that he had an issue. Also, what he said was probably technically correct - the aircraft seems to have been equipped for IFR in the 1970s - I found this on a website, no idea how accurate it is: Avionics/Radios Dual 170B's King Audio Panel with Marker Beacon King Transponder King ADF Dme Dual VOR with Glide Slope So the aircraft is IFR capable. The pilot probably had an IFR rating, but was not current or not able to do so with the equipment in his aircraft. Stuck on top is not a comfortable place to be for a VFR pilot or even an IFR pilot who's not current or is not flying with the same equipment he trained on. I've been there, and thanks to videos like this, I 'fessed up to ATC, and they helped me find a hole and get down safely and legally. Thankfully I had plenty of fuel, and there were holes out there, so I didn't need to declare. These stories are great for non-pilots because they are kind of entertaining, but for pilots, they are invaluable because we can hopefully learn something that can save our lives.
That pilot is truly lucky to be alive. He definitely needs A LOT of remedial training with a CFII before he is allowed to go IFR again. It was great meeting you and talking to you at OSH!! Keep up the great work.
Good job Hoover. Nice to see this one didn't create tombstones but you have to wonder how much real instrument training and flying this pilot had. Sounds like the FAA went light on him.
This is now my Sunday morning dose of reality with no unnecessary drama or gore. What is it when people need to see more tragedy as opposed to common sense? I once made it through an F4 tornado, the roads were clogged with tragedy seeking sightseers. Just pathetic.
@@pamelaremel7477 I'm 67 so I think I've seen it all and have mid range PTSD. "Is this where that guy was shot?" Look! A backyard shed on fire! Just really stupid human behavior.
As a CFII I would never even dream of allowing an instrument student to proceed to a practical exam if they had this kind of attitude. I’ve terminated with at least one student because they simply couldn’t let go of the idea that “all I need to do is follow the magenta line, why are you making this so hard?” It’s infuriating. These people had families that I’m sure would be entrusting them with their lives, and I just wanted no part of that.
My CFII is like that too. He's refused to continue with students that adopt a similar attitude because he didn't want the blood of the family on his hands. I respect that.
I’m thinking this might have been the new owner flying his new plane that he wasn’t familiar with (and the registration wasn’t updated until later as it takes the FAA a long time to update these records).
Any landing you walk away from.... At least he had enough fuel to mess around until he could get on the ground. But doing that in the hills is risky stuff.
He was probably getting low on fuel - this flight ended up being about 4 hours - quite a long flight, and depending on how well he leaned, he could have been running very low on fuel, adding to the stress.
Ok, I apologise for my comment to all the pilots who watch Hoover for debriefs …. But Hoover, I think you are fantastic. Your channel is informative, educational and I’m sure will help many up and coming (and seasoned) pilots. No politics, no sponsorship ads overselling in the middle of streams, no being cruel, no unnecessary drama… just factual and with empathy: Bravo ❤
Not new. iPads have been in the cockpits for many years. But, the FAA and the NTSB should have banned them long time ago for the sake of proficiency and safety.
@@TheOsfaniaI experience similar dangerous results when engaging in amateur anesthesiology or inter cranial scalpel exploration! I fly airplanes for a living and have empathy for those who find themselves in situations such as this. As Clint Eastwood once said “a man should know his limitations.” That quote comes in below my favorite Clint zinger; young man seeking a bounty on Clint’s character throws open the saloon doors, ready to shoot. When it’s clear Eastwood could smoke him from a seated position, the kid says “mister, I’m just trying’ to make a livin’, to which Clint ultimately says “dyin’ ain’t much of a livin’ son!” Truer words have never been spoken. The subject pilot has a high level of cognitive dissonance bouncing around inside his skull. Too bad he took his floaties off before jumping in the deep end 😳
Controller was Grace Under Fire so to speak. Hopefully this man gets some training or stays out of the air. He's several times lucky that he made it down safely! Another excellent vid. Hoover, thanks!
Well they mandated he get some training before returning to the air, so hopefully he doesn't go to some rubber stamp academy and actually learns how to use his instruments before he turns himself and his plane into scrap.
I did a check ride with a student yesterday for an initial type in a C525. When he started the ILS, he is looking at his iPad mounted on his yoke. The plane has dual 750’s and Dual G600’s 9Beautiful panel for a CJ1). Both 750’s had chart option enabled and current charts. The controller asked him to let them know when he got to the FAF (we were in and out of a light broken layer) To my amazement, the student never entered the procedure on the 750’s, never put in the ILS frequency in either of NAV1 or 2, and he was flying the effing ILS approach off his iPad. He obviously failed at that point. Where do pilots get that they can fly IFR off an iPad??? It’s a great tool for situational awareness, but I was flabbergasted that a commercial, multi, instrument pilot would do that ( He was an older gentleman)
It's on the written test about 15 different ways. Some people are just too dumb to keep alive in airplanes without a lot of luck. I wish you could unsat a candidate "with prejudice" like they do in court. That guy should not be allowed to take the checkride again.
Hmm, the aging brain is not so good at working under pressure. He might be OK in a car, but it doesn't sound like he should be navigating anywhere that the wheels are not touching bitumen.
"...I'm gonna get in trouble if things don't work out...", i.e., you DIE. This pilot obviously didn't have the approach loaded into his GPS, and the iPad excuse is weak. I have Foreflight on my iPad which is on the panel, and I also have a copy on my iPhone as a backup. I have the ability to charge both in flight at the same time. This guy is EXTREMELY lucky not to have died during this "approach". Nice job with the video.
@superbmediacontentcreator It's worse than that. We just bought a new microwave. I can see how voice command would be handy if you're disabled but why are we paying for Bluetooth? Who puts a frozen meal in a microwave & needs to defrost it 10 minutes before they get home? I collect old maps, jokingly call them paper GPS. No one ever laughs.
This guy is lucky to be alive. I agree with you Hoover - it's a really good idea to have some printed info with you and not just rely on a single piece of electronics that can fail in a number of ways. That I-Pad is a great backup if the battery is charged just in case you had an electrical failure that takes out your panel mounted GPS, same as having a hand held along, just in case, but it's a last resort. Not a flight instrument.
I've been retired for a while but it seems like many struggle with these GPS approaches. In my day an ILS, VOR,, and even the occasional NDB got us in every time. Great video.
Will never forget the day (elsewhere) I took an IFR handoff, and the previous controller giving a heads-up he wasn't holding vectors well. Pilot sounded uncomfortable immediately. Suffice it to say we started looking for better weather quickly for them. No injuries
Hoover, I'm not a pilot nor have I flown in a commercial bird for at least 30 years but I really like watching your videos and listening to your explanations of what was done right and what was done wrong and your knowledge and experience is exemplary. I appreciate your military service as well. Thank-You
Its like that crazy driver on the road we all encounter, just flying through traffic with little to no understanding of the danger. Some people should not fly!
I think FAA should have investigated whoever signed the pilot off for IFR. As a software developer the iPad (or any general purpose computing device) should NEVER be approved as more than an aid.
Wouldn’t help. Didn’t have up to date subscription to data for his equipment. I guess he couldn’t afford to fly IFR. Are there any “poor” IFR pilots flying their own/rented planes?
Nice to have a video where the family didn't perish because of the pilots incredibly severe problem of incompetency. Thanks Hoover! Great video. I enjoy them.
Hoover, I really like how you keep to the facts. You keep the emotional aspect out of the breakdown each time. It’s very easy to enter the rabbit hole of “pilot stupidity” when discussing an incident/accident. Another great job…video…for us.
Wow. That is crazy and the flight controllers did an amazing job. This reminds me of the old Q&A… Question: What do you call the doctor who graduated last in his class? Answer: Doctor. In other words, just because someone gets a license, it doesn’t always mean that they know what they’re doing. Thanks for all you do @pilot-debrief.
I’m seeing that more and more. We have actually hired “professionals” that absolutely can’t fly without an iPad and certainly can’t fly without a moving map. It’s disgusting.
As a pilot who uses an iPad somewhat regularly, it’s mostly a convenience tool. Sure, I could go home and print out every approach plate I need. But that would be literally dozens of pieces of paper I’d have to reprint every month when they’re out of date.
@@sectorcodecjust getting into IFR and I’m a a lower time pilot, but the iPad is more like you said. It’s an EFB (electronic flight bag) rather than messing around with big maps that run out of date, supplements for airports and needing different runway print outs for every place, you press around on foreflight or garmin and it brings up the information you need with no fumbling or wasted time. You don’t fly off the map, you look at it for pilotage and dead wrecking help and the charts you may need when you’re landing or taxiing. Nothing too complicated there. How does one fly based on an iPad. Insane.
Excellent video! Kudos to the air traffic controller who was very professional. The pilot is very lucky in this case and luck is not something you want to rely on.
mannn I kept expecing to see the video go south to him crashing but was pleasantly surprised to see he made it. Hopefully it was a wakeup call for him. Controller did an outstanding job for sure. Another great video hoover!
I guess each of us have our own preference in how the story is told. I do like the intro information about the end outcome because it causes me to sharply focus on the details of the story that lead to the safe landing, safe but narrow escape landing, or a terrible tragedy. I find I concentrate on each detail as the story unfolds trying to determine step by step what could have gone wrong or what was the saving grace.
I really appreciate your debriefs ,brings back memories of days as a ATC operator, and limited pilot, and 1000 plus jump Yahoo, I'd fly with you any day any where....
Man that was painful to listen to. Kudos to the controller for keeping his cool and not canceling his IFR. By not doing so, he definitely let the pilot know of the seriousness of this attempt. Glad this had a positive ending and the pilot was had to take remedial IFR training, but this could’ve been really bad had there been terrain in the area or more traffic. 🙏🏼
The insurance company is not the appropriate entity to regulate via insurance rates. The local FSDO is the correct entity. The reason is, when action is taken by the FSDO, there is a legal process - and the pilot has rights. As such, the pilot has the right to be represented by counsel to, basically, provide the pilot’s side of the story. And while insurance companies can set premiums based upon actuarial facts, were they to make a decision to raise rates based upon no actual incident or accident, would be to step into the regulatory role that they aren’t - nor want to be - tasked with filling.
Sam Kinison should have taken over this one. "VFR means VISUAL!" Can you see the runway? How are you going to approach something you can't see? Ahh! Ahhhh!"
I like watching these types of videos as entertainment. ... I'm not a pilot but even this one had me scratching my head! He's lucky he got on the ground safely. Good one Hoover.
Thank for posting. I'm not a pilot but even I have the small sense to do my road based navigating with a GPS "AND" a paper map in the planning stage. It's amazing how often, the technology lets you down. Paper notes however, always work, even without a power supply! 😁😁. I don't want to come across as being severe on the pilot here, but there is just no way he should have been flying that aircraft, in bad weather with clearly no proper preparation.
Maybe sometimes it doesn't seem that way, but ATC is your friend. Controller in this clip deserves multiple prizes: patience, understanding, and competence.
The Controller could tell the Pilot had trouble because of the route he took trying to find the initial approach fix. The controller could have attempted to vector the Pilot straight in on the approach which he ultimately did. MRB is pretty wide open. Nothing easier than an airport with a tower and primary radar. Good point .. if he had asked for help and leveled with the controller from the beginning, they would have spoon fed him the data necessary to get down.
Like you, ex military pilot, now CFII. Very common to have pilots show up for an IPC and they can’t use the IFR navigator installed in the aircraft. This is particularly a problem for pilots who got their certificate before GPS approaches became so prevalent. This pilot sure gives every indication he was using his iPad as his sole navigation device. Oh, no an iPad is not an approved navigation device.
@@sarahalbers5555 Didn’t need one. The GPS will give you all the course data. Depending on the system, it will also give you each step down altitude. Older systems might not have the step down altitudes, but just ask. an LPV get vectors onto final, follow the course and glide path. Again ask for DA. Weather was not that bad. If I recall, he would have broken out at 1000 fr or more above ground. Don’t know who was flying, but couldn’t possibly have an instrument certificate. Declare an emergency if needed.
I’ve never cringed harder than when I heard “the iPad tells me where the intersection is to let me know when I’m there”. This man should not be flying IFR.
Thanks for your work, Hoover. I started watching because I was considering learning to fly. I am an artist and writer and very left brained. You have made me realise I'm definitely not the kind of human who should. ❤
I force all my primary students, and even my instrument students for a good chunk of the training course, to turn off “Ownship” on their iPad. Yes, by all means learn how to use it for weather, briefings, maps, airport data, and so on. But until I’m convinced that they’ve got the proper respect for situational awareness and navigation, they’re not allowed to use it for that kind of crutch.
The iPad dying is the exact reason why my school always has updated paper copies of chart supps, sectionals (both vfr and ifr), and terps in the plane because there is always someone who forgets to charge their iPad before doing a XC solo whether it be private or commercial. Also for the commercial students if the iPad die and we are about to fly into IMC, always request an RNAV approach as our GPS will literally tell us the altitude restrictions with the points to fly towards (making the workload so much easier) and we never let our comm students fly XC solo without first making them shoot approaches in both the sim and aircraft they will be flying for the solo to check ride standards and making them IFR current.
Hey Hoover, love all your videos. I do flight sim both civilian and military. My heart gets going in a sim and crazy how fast things get out of control. To be a pilot you must be in complete control and focus. Watching your videos actsully helps me be better sim pilot. Koodos to all avaition personal. Ground crew, tower pilots etc.
Martinsburg has a great restaurant on the field. I have a backup tablet.... and my phone has my iFlyEFB system in it too. If you are going to fly IFR.... you need multiple backups !!!! Sounds like his plane really didn't have a gps in it because even the old systems should have the waypoints. he would have been better doing the ILS26. Every old plane can pick up the ILS frequencies. (or VOR) He's lucky he didn't hurt himself. FYI... we just had an incident (outside of KJST) where someone cashed in IMC who wasn't IFR, but had been doing it illegally for a very long time. One point you missed..... KMRB is in the 60 mile ring of the DC SFRA. If he dropped the IFR clearance.... he would have needed his SFRA training also. (To fly VFR into it) THe outer ring isn't as strict as the inner ring, and the FRZ, but it still has special rules. (mostly a speed restriction)
@superbmediacontentcreator Backups are so important in everyday life. Just this year someone wandered off in Death Valley, no extra water & no cell phone meant a slow & painful death. I read stories of hunters and hikers going way out there, one lighter, an extra tee shirt, no sat. phone & if they did have one would not have an extra battery.
@superbmediacontentcreator This site doesn't like links so just look up Marten Hartwell in Wikipedia. I was in high school in northern Canada when this happened, nightly news for 30 straight days. The short story is a medivac flight; 2 patients, a nurse, an inept & unprepared pilot with 20 below weather. For some reason the beacon wasn't turned on until day 30 and rumors of cannibalism were confirmed at the inquiry. The city I lived in then had a hospital attached to the university with a top of the line trauma center and naturally a helipad. Property values around the university were high & a petition was started to limit the "awful racket" the helicopters made. The sheer stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me, that could be you in that helicopter one day. Have a good day, I'm out doing house stuff.
@superbmediacontentcreator - Could you reference the rule for carrying a backup EFB for Part 91 flights? I think that rule is for Part 121 only. Frankly, I carry two iPads, an iPhone, an old laminated paper sectional, and print outs of a few of my favorite approaches. I mainly carry the paper charts to stay current in using them. It’s not uncommon for my primary iPad to overheat. I’ve never had to resort to using my iPhone.
not in the SFRA, in the 60nm speed restriction but not the SFRA thats only 30nm radius, I used to be based at KMRB for a few years its a wonderful airport
That route is almost like a straight in approach to runway 08! Wow! Just watching his altitude fluctuations indicate he is not a seasoned instrument pilot.😢 Glad the survived. Kudos to the controller.
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The reason this was so dangerous is because it reinforced the pilot's belief that he can always just cancel IFR and duck under the weather and make things work. If you have an instrument rating, you need to maintain proficiency to fly IFR and that means understanding how to fly an approach. Let me know what you think in the comments below and then be sure to also watch the video about the Dad that was taking his family on vacation and crashed 👉 ruclips.net/video/yMpLo1zFGWc/видео.html
I think this pilot was so reckless he should have been grounded. It angers me that the FAA allowed him back with a slap on the wrist.
No iPad means he doesn't have the approach plate. Maybe he was trying to shoot the approach with the iPad but that would stupid. Idk man... it sounds to me like he wasn't current.
@pilot-debrief I can't imagine canceling an instrument approach with RNAV, VOR, and especially ILS available in the weather.
I'd rather go into the hold and pull the plate up on my phone than whatever decision he made.
Makes me wonder how many times he'd gotten-away with this.
He got lucky this time. But he's flying on borrowed time. You'll be doing another debrief on this pilot in the future with a different outcome, sadly.
1900 ft broken is about as easy an instrument approach as you can get. This guy managed to turn it into an emergency. The fact that he was using his iPad as a primary flight instrument for shooting the approach is shocking. Kudos to the controller for an excellent job
@superbmediacontentcreator given the comments about his next two legs having similar troubled approaches, I wonder if his iPad was ever working on this trip
@@carlosa7807 True, except that the field elevation is over 500 ft and it’s a mountainous area. The approach plate shows a minimum safe altitude of 4100 ft within 25 miles of the airport. He was very lucky to live through this.
@@dougg64674,100 ft MSL in a 25 mile radius area takes the very highest terrain or obstacle and adds 2,000 ft in a mountainous terrain area. Realistically, that highest point could be miles and miles away from the area you’re operating in. 2,000 ft is a pretty big margin.
This guy was still a moron nonetheless.
@superbmediacontentcreator I 'hear you' 'loud and clear'
Just a wild musing here…. I wonder if it was just a Six-Pack… and he had Google Maps on his phone after his iPad died… pilot mentioned he could not find the Nav Point on his GPS … SOOOO MUCH wrong in that aircraft
That pilot had absolutely no business being in that airplane
Idk, how do you learn?
@@TheCatLady65 You learn by being able to admit when you don't know something, which this goober didn't do.
THIS PILOT IS JUST LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO FLY ANOTHER DAY. HE NEEDS TO STAY PROFICIENT AND KEEP OUT OF DANGER. WHEW! THAT WAS A CLOSE ONE. THOSE HIGH MOUNTIAN PEAKS CAN QUICKLY RISE UP AND SMITE YOU
@@TheCatLady65 with an instructor.
@@TheCatLady65You must be one of those clowns that thinks the world should step aside while you do whatever the hell you'd like. No matter who it puts in danger. Effing fool
That controller deserves an award. I would have been so pissed. 😅
My guess is that he was, but he remained professional in spite of that and did everything he needed to do to ensure a positive outcome. Hats off to him.
@@grundged I guarantee once the pilot landed the other airport called this tower back and said "hey remember the guy you warned us about?..... Well he landed here, but on the WRONG side of the flippin runway!"
He did an amazing job !
@@sister_bertrille911 That's exactly what the original comment meant.
oh... He was PISSED
I think he is the kind of guy whos anger is very quiet... but I think there was some real rage in those final few communications.
and yes, he did an awesome job despite being basically hampered all the way...
I commend the controller trying to help this pilot who was so confused, I really hope the pilot didn't fly again until he got some proper training. Thank you Hoover I really appreciate how you respect all involved in your debriefs.
Yeah, Kudos to the controller, I was expecting a Gunnery Sergeant Hartman impression: [raising his voice] What is your major malfunction, numbnuts?
Didn't Mommy and Daddy show you enough attention when you were a child?.
I bet some controllers internal monologues dealing with certain pilots would make decent video.😄
Thanks for the laughs. I can just imagine. 😁
@@R.Sole88109 Yes, thanks for the laughs. 👍👍
In reality, one of the most desirable traits of any authority figure is how they act under stress, or even extreme stress. Can they handle it.
Well I really hope that joker NEVER flies again!!!
Seems like a VFR pilot who didn’t know how to use his equipment. He’s lucky to be alive.
This is crazy. That’s my plane. I just bought it April of this year. I know exactly who that is, Jerry Pipes. He also did not pay for the Garmin subscription for the very capable GNS 430W. After this flight in December he flew to another location and clipped the top of trees with the left wingtip. He had it repaired repaired and put it up for sale in late March. We closed on in April. You will see Apple Valley in May is me doing training in the Mooney with my instructor. It blows my mind he kept flying even after this crazy flight in Oct. two months later he was in accident.
Well, at least sounds like it's in better hands now. He put that plane through a lot
I was gonna go looking for pics from the sales ad to see if it had an onboard GPS.....thanks for saving me the trouble! Did this guy not even know that he could hit the "direct to" button and find that IAF in the database? Or select the Martinsburg Airport, then hit the "Proc" button, select and load the approach? It's not like the approach is so new it won't be in the database. How do you pass an instrument checkride without being able to do this?
Can concur, I flew it in April and after putting in a current GPS database everything worked great including the autopilot being coupled to the Garmin 430. Aircraft even had 4 USB power sockets on board for charging. Can’t fathom how the previous owner could get so behind the plane.
WHAAAAAAT!!!!! That's a sick story. What are the odds you finding out this, this way. Sick, really sick!
I looked him up in the Airmen database. He's the only Jerry Pipes in the database and he's out of Louisiana. This pilot does not have an instrument rating. His medical expired 3/2024. He probably had no idea how to load and follow an approach in the 430W or King LOC/ILS indicators in his aircraft The aircraft back in 2012 had an STEC 50 AP as well so it should have been no problem getting into MRB. I fly a TR182 out of LKU with a 430W and STEC 60-2 with flight director. I was based at HEF near IAD for 20 years with a 172, 182RG then a TR182. MRB is an easy airport in IFR conditions but I couldn't believe that this pilot appeared to be flying IFR solely dependent upon an Ipad and with no knowledge of the capabilities of his aircraft. MRB is 565 MSL just west over the Blue Ridge foothills in the Shenandoah Valley--pretty low terrain where he was navigating, like 2100-2300 MSL but he just got lucky.
Potomac Approach controllers are excellent but you need to tell them what you want....if I were approach control knowing the ceilings at MRB and the pilot's situation I would have suggested declaring an emergency for him, vectored him to intercept the 080 approach course, then told him to establish a vertical descent rate in an attempt to get him below the clouds in order to give him a contact approach clearance (not knowing then that he was not instrument rated). There is plenty of room in that area to perform this but I'm just armchair quarterbacking.
"My ipad died." "Great, that would have been fantastic to know 30 minutes ago."
That's the point at which I figured the guy was going to crash
Right! lol....I mean by his logic what does that mean (IPAD is now dead). Is the plan to crash after that happens? Sure sounded like he had NO backup plan.
And also who cares if it happened because it's not supposed to be a primary instrument/tool lol
Dose anyone know the instrument load out on this aircraft, I bet it’s one of the old lat/long 1st gen GPS units and the CDI don’t work correctly. The only way that his argument about the iPad and cross referencing reff point would even be close to logical.
@@alexlindsey6446 He had no primary plan.
I only fly for fun on nice sunny days . So far I have flown 45 years without any problems. I know my limits
Likewise but only in a car. Concussions & more have given me certain limits but thankfully I still have great night vision at 67 and some minor racing in my past. Beware the nose-picking texting Range Rover owner!
"A man's gotta know his limits." Thanks for keeping it sane and safe out there.
@@My_Fair_Lady That what simulators are for imo. Boring is safe.
@@My_Fair_LadyJeb? Is that you? The Kerbal profile pic goes so well with your reply 😂
Incompetent and unsafe. Referring only to the pilot of said Mooney 83V. A man has gotta know his limitations.
This pilot should be grounded for life.
The ATC deserves praise, for his patience! 👊🏽
I'm guessing the family was praying their hearts out... so lucky to have survived this "learning experience".
“Pilot”
@@imgroot9957 Yes. If the lumberjack does not cut the wood how can this guy "Pile It"?
I was involved with early development of a class II EFB (handheld device showing moving maps, IFR plates, etc) and at the time, the FAA did not allow us to show our ownship on the moving map, because they believed pilots would become too dependent on a non-certified device for primary navigation. This incident is exactly what they were trying to avoid.
I'm not a pilot but I have watched a few videos and noted iPads being used for approach plates and GPS location and wondered to myself if that was legal (since it's just consumer electronics) and or how many people have an over reliance on it for positioning.
Sounds like it's a real issue then, at least for some.
Here’s the flip side of that coin… an ipad with an external GPS device utilizing WAAS (such as a Garmin GDL52) is more accurate than an ILS by a significant amount. Yet the only reason pilots aren’t allowed to use this method, is because it’s not certified and permanently mounted in the aircraft. But the operational capability of foreflight and a GDL52 is literally higher than an ILS and definitely higher than a VOR.
@@VictoryAviationyou should also get AHRS as a backup with that. The mini sentry ADSB offers it with claimed 1m accuracy. There is a cascading set of problems in the plane if reliance on an iPad is the last resort. Failure of a TSO installed GPS, vacuum pump failure, VOR failure, power failure, getting yourself into a problem with low fuel with poor planning, etc. Now if all that happens or I just happen to be gliding in to an airport deadstick in IFR, then in navigating with the iPad 😂
@@volvo09iPad is fine for redundancy or an aid, but shouldn’t be the primary tool, which is how it sounds like this pilot was using it. You should know they airplane and know how everything on it works, otherwise you end up in this situation where the iPad dies and you’re in trouble because you don’t know how to fly the plane without it. He said he was using the iPad to confirm his GPS, but it sounds like he didn’t know how to use the GPS and was just using the iPads GPS.
Plates on an iPad is fine but you should absolutely have paper copies as well.
Consumer electronics aren’t made for a lot of this stuff and shouldn’t be trusted to this extent.
You can't punish the majority of people and letting them without the technology because the minority won't use it properly!!!
Hoover, you’re incredibly valuable to us who are trying to understand why these pilots get into trouble in what seems to be a typical flight. Arrogance, overconfidence appear to be contributing factors in so many. Thank you for your channel.
This incident displays the professionalism of Air Traffic Controllers. My hat's off to them!!
Which is rare.
He was so invested and polite!
Great that you’re covering near miss situations. Just as instructive as the tragedies. He’s lucky to be alive.
He did miss tho. It was a near hit!
His IFR "hack" was his iPad. He would steer the plane so the blue dot on the iPad hits the waypoints. Easier than entering all those characters into his nav equipment. Genius.
After all of that mess with a dead iPad and complete confusion about the operation of the onboard nav equipment, even a quasi-proficient IFR pilot would've accepted a tried and true precision ILS approach. Personally, I'd take an ILS over an RNAV approach any old day. Something is seriously amiss here and I hope the FAA figures it out before this guy starts recklessly divebombing holes in the deck again. That endangers more than just him!
PS Kudos to the controller. If patience is a virtue, that controller should be canonized.
The controller knew the guy was struggling and tried to help him the best he could. The pilot thought he knew how to fly IFR but really did not! The pilot should have declared an emergency earlier on.
Im with you, RNAVs can be more of a pain then its worth, give me and ILS any day of the week. Simple radio change on NAV1 and you're headed down.
@@KaylieRayne Absolutely!
I agree with you except on the ILS part. I do prefer the RNAV, it guides you by grabbing you by the hand, provided you have a modern good GPS avionics installed.
@@davisandotube ILS wont do anything different than the RNAV here - they will point him at the glideslope and localizer and the needles will do the exact same thing that his ipad or an onboard GPS would have done. It would be legal, safe and probably working regardless of his ipad battery, so why not just take the ILS? So strange.
These debriefs are fantastic in keeping us safe, I have learnt so much from your breakdowns of what went wrong and how to avoid dangerous scenarios. Thank you Hoover for your content and service
The fact that he didn’t accept vectors onto an ILS is “wow.” That’s as simple as it gets, all you need to do is tune a frequency. It’s like his brain had one path it needed to follow and he couldn’t even consider anything else.
Panic can cause tunnel vision!
I am not a pilot, but when much younger did get to fly being shown a lot about the aircraft. This was before most craft had GPS and I have to say that VOR seemed pretty easy. Dial a frequency and follow the needle until you’re on top of it.
Sounds possibly like what they call “Plan Continuation Bias”, aka get-there-itis. The podcast Cautionary Tales did a great episode on this, (actually where I learned the term), if you’re interested the episode is called “Danger- Rocks Ahead!” Only in that case the Captain was a very experienced sailor, (unlike the pilot in this video 😬).
Possibly because he didn't have an Instrument Rating. He was determined to cancel IFR to find a hole in the clouds. An ILS would have been so much easier.
Probably didn't have the equipment the controller was lead to believe he had
Confusion of any sort in the cockpit can be catastrophic. I am glad he was able to get down safely.
Controller had the patience of a saint which he really shouldn't have needed to have. Sheesh. Give that dude a raise, genuinely, or at the very least pilot should be sending a thank you (hopefully not pissed at the controller for the extta training he definitely needs).
As they said, if the controller lost his temper or declared an emergency on behalf of the pilot, he would just further stress him out. In a situation like that all that really matters is getting the aircraft safely on the ground. It’s like dealing with a kid who is holding a loaded firearm, you don’t yell and berate, you just focus on getting everyone safely out of a bad situation, then you can get angry later
That pilot is nothing but a liability.
I feel for the controller. I was stressed listening to him trying to help the pilot. I’m glad he landed safely.
I used to know a retired air traffic control guy. He described his job as 'playing video games with people's lives'. Videos like this give me newfound respect for him and all others who work in that field
Nice. A lot to learn from and no one died this time. The controller was just fantastic. The type you need when in trouble. prioritising to get you 'safely' on the ground. One can deal with the pilot's errors later.
how is this not a licence revoked ? lied to the tower and tried to do an illegal approach all while messing around and causing issues for the controllers and other aircraft before he decided to just go below the clouds himself and then land the wrong way ? how is that just a more training situation.
I agree. This azzhole jeopardized the other dozen planes in the air waiting to land. Should have pulled his license. Period
@AnythingForSouls There could be several possible reasons the FAA was kinder to the pilot than expected. #1 He may have shown true remorse and expressed an understanding of how much trouble he caused. Maybe he caught the Arbiter of his case on a good day. Contrition and humility are increasingly rare in these times, which makes them a bit more effective when expressed. It could also be simply that the outcome after he took control and completed the flight visually (even if breaking rules unsafely) was not worse.
@@transparentaluminum True - he might have also lost his primary IFR navigation system in the aircraft, and was relying on the ipad. We don't know the whole story.
@@dermicknah, 5 minutes into the video the controller asks if the pilot and plane are IFR capable and and pilot says "that is all correct". The correct response would be "no, my main avionics failed, and my backup iPad is at 8% battery".
@@PsRohrbaugh True - he should have confessed that he had an issue. Also, what he said was probably technically correct - the aircraft seems to have been equipped for IFR in the 1970s - I found this on a website, no idea how accurate it is:
Avionics/Radios
Dual 170B's King Audio Panel with Marker Beacon King Transponder King ADF Dme Dual VOR with Glide Slope
So the aircraft is IFR capable.
The pilot probably had an IFR rating, but was not current or not able to do so with the equipment in his aircraft.
Stuck on top is not a comfortable place to be for a VFR pilot or even an IFR pilot who's not current or is not flying with the same equipment he trained on. I've been there, and thanks to videos like this, I 'fessed up to ATC, and they helped me find a hole and get down safely and legally. Thankfully I had plenty of fuel, and there were holes out there, so I didn't need to declare.
These stories are great for non-pilots because they are kind of entertaining, but for pilots, they are invaluable because we can hopefully learn something that can save our lives.
That pilot is truly lucky to be alive. He definitely needs A LOT of remedial training with a CFII before he is allowed to go IFR again. It was great meeting you and talking to you at OSH!! Keep up the great work.
Glad this didnt end in a crash. The pilot was a literal weapon and has no business putting himself and others in danger in this way ever again.
Good job Hoover. Nice to see this one didn't create tombstones but you have to wonder how much real instrument training and flying this pilot had. Sounds like the FAA went light on him.
Once again, I am gobsmacked by this story. It's as though the pilot was making it up as he went along, and badly at that. Unbelievable!
Just wanted to say thanks for stopping by Oshkksh. My son was thrilled to meet you and talk about flying. Hope you enjoyed your time here.
You always comment so beautifully and respectfully.
Thank you.
Always my 1st ‘go to’ when it’s aviation related.
Bless you Hoover x
Thanks!
This is now my Sunday morning dose of reality with no unnecessary drama or gore. What is it when people need to see more tragedy as opposed to common sense? I once made it through an F4 tornado, the roads were clogged with tragedy seeking sightseers. Just pathetic.
@@dicksonfranssen Same thing after a fire.
@@pamelaremel7477 I'm 67 so I think I've seen it all and have mid range PTSD. "Is this where that guy was shot?" Look! A backyard shed on fire! Just really stupid human behavior.
Well said! Thank you very much!
As a CFII I would never even dream of allowing an instrument student to proceed to a practical exam if they had this kind of attitude. I’ve terminated with at least one student because they simply couldn’t let go of the idea that “all I need to do is follow the magenta line, why are you making this so hard?” It’s infuriating. These people had families that I’m sure would be entrusting them with their lives, and I just wanted no part of that.
My CFII is like that too. He's refused to continue with students that adopt a similar attitude because he didn't want the blood of the family on his hands. I respect that.
At least he sold the plane a month after that. Hopefully he had some sense scared into him.
I’m thinking this might have been the new owner flying his new plane that he wasn’t familiar with (and the registration wasn’t updated until later as it takes the FAA a long time to update these records).
I agree, it seems like this scared the living bajesus out of him and he sold the plane, and maybe won't fly again. Hard to say.
He probably sold it to buy a Cirrus 😆😆😆. Sorry, just trying to put a little humor to a horrible situation
yeah selling that plane was a benefit to everybody
@@mfkpI think you're right on
Any landing you walk away from....
At least he had enough fuel to mess around until he could get on the ground. But doing that in the hills is risky stuff.
He was probably getting low on fuel - this flight ended up being about 4 hours - quite a long flight, and depending on how well he leaned, he could have been running very low on fuel, adding to the stress.
Ok, I apologise for my comment to all the pilots who watch Hoover for debriefs …. But Hoover, I think you are fantastic. Your channel is informative, educational and I’m sure will help many up and coming (and seasoned) pilots. No politics, no sponsorship ads overselling in the middle of streams, no being cruel, no unnecessary drama… just factual and with empathy: Bravo ❤
It is very clear that the pilot used the Ipad solely for navigation and had no idea how to fly any of the approaches.
iPad - The new doctor killer.
Takes care of architects, engineers, dentists, lawyers, too.
@@TheOsfaniaNot architects, too poor. Probably same for engineers.
Not new. iPads have been in the cockpits for many years. But, the FAA and the NTSB should have banned them long time ago for the sake of proficiency and safety.
ewwww, IF he was in a V-tail, 100 percent, would have augured in
@@TheOsfaniaI experience similar dangerous results when engaging in amateur anesthesiology or inter cranial scalpel exploration! I fly airplanes for a living and have empathy for those who find themselves in situations such as this.
As Clint Eastwood once said “a man should know his limitations.” That quote comes in below my favorite Clint zinger; young man seeking a bounty on Clint’s character throws open the saloon doors, ready to shoot. When it’s clear Eastwood could smoke him from a seated position, the kid says “mister, I’m just trying’ to make a livin’, to which Clint ultimately says “dyin’ ain’t much of a livin’ son!” Truer words have never been spoken.
The subject pilot has a high level of cognitive dissonance bouncing around inside his skull. Too bad he took his floaties off before jumping in the deep end 😳
Controller was Grace Under Fire so to speak. Hopefully this man gets some training or stays out of the air. He's several times lucky that he made it down safely! Another excellent vid. Hoover, thanks!
Well they mandated he get some training before returning to the air, so hopefully he doesn't go to some rubber stamp academy and actually learns how to use his instruments before he turns himself and his plane into scrap.
Who is Grace?
That is the most patient and understanding controller I've ever heard. Good job on his part!
I did a check ride with a student yesterday for an initial type in a C525. When he started the ILS, he is looking at his iPad mounted on his yoke. The plane has dual 750’s and Dual G600’s 9Beautiful panel for a CJ1). Both 750’s had chart option enabled and current charts. The controller asked him to let them know when he got to the FAF (we were in and out of a light broken layer) To my amazement, the student never entered the procedure on the 750’s, never put in the ILS frequency in either of NAV1 or 2, and he was flying the effing ILS approach off his iPad. He obviously failed at that point. Where do pilots get that they can fly IFR off an iPad??? It’s a great tool for situational awareness, but I was flabbergasted that a commercial, multi, instrument pilot would do that ( He was an older gentleman)
It comes from instructors allowing it. I’m getting my CFI ticket soon. I’m not gonna allow iPads in the cockpit.
It's on the written test about 15 different ways. Some people are just too dumb to keep alive in airplanes without a lot of luck. I wish you could unsat a candidate "with prejudice" like they do in court. That guy should not be allowed to take the checkride again.
@@mowtivatedmechanic1172I don't really see how that's solving the problem. Pilots need to be proficient with EFBs. They're not going anywhere.
Hmm, the aging brain is not so good at working under pressure. He might be OK in a car, but it doesn't sound like he should be navigating anywhere that the wheels are not touching bitumen.
CFII fail
"...I'm gonna get in trouble if things don't work out...", i.e., you DIE. This pilot obviously didn't have the approach loaded into his GPS, and the iPad excuse is weak. I have Foreflight on my iPad which is on the panel, and I also have a copy on my iPhone as a backup. I have the ability to charge both in flight at the same time. This guy is EXTREMELY lucky not to have died during this "approach". Nice job with the video.
Kudos to that controller. Kept his cool with a pilot who was making things as difficult as possible.
I always find your content fascinating and educational, thank you!
Looks like another iPad dependent pilot. This is becoming is a very dangerous trend.
Is it just me, or are too many pilots obscuring their view with high mounted ipads reducing their "see & avoid" ability as well as safely taxiing?
Agreed. This is a quote from my first comment. *"AI is killing our creativity, self reliance & common sense"* You can include iPads in there.
That's why its important we teach students how to work things out, confidently, the old fashioned way with maps and charts
@@randynielsen1413 and to be able to navigate on 'old style' conventional navaids before migrating to newer technology.
@superbmediacontentcreator It's worse than that. We just bought a new microwave. I can see how voice command would be handy if you're disabled but why are we paying for Bluetooth? Who puts a frozen meal in a microwave & needs to defrost it 10 minutes before they get home? I collect old maps, jokingly call them paper GPS. No one ever laughs.
Wow. This is crazy. I'm glad this guy survived at least. Also glad to hear that he apparently sold his airplane.
This guy is lucky to be alive. I agree with you Hoover - it's a really good idea to have some printed info with you and not just rely on a single piece of electronics that can fail in a number of ways. That I-Pad is a great backup if the battery is charged just in case you had an electrical failure that takes out your panel mounted GPS, same as having a hand held along, just in case, but it's a last resort. Not a flight instrument.
I've been retired for a while but it seems like many struggle with these GPS approaches. In my day an ILS, VOR,, and even the occasional NDB got us in every time. Great video.
Will never forget the day (elsewhere) I took an IFR handoff, and the previous controller giving a heads-up he wasn't holding vectors well. Pilot sounded uncomfortable immediately.
Suffice it to say we started looking for better weather quickly for them. No injuries
Hoover, I'm not a pilot nor have I flown in a commercial bird for at least 30 years but I really like watching your videos and listening to your explanations of what was done right and what was done wrong and your knowledge and experience is exemplary. I appreciate your military service as well. Thank-You
Its like that crazy driver on the road we all encounter, just flying through traffic with little to no understanding of the danger.
Some people should not fly!
That's the point.
@@foreverpinkf.7603 yep!
Thanks for playing and def glad you can understand!
Pilot Debrief is a fascinating big picture look into a part of aviation that non-pilots rarely see. Great presentation!
I think FAA should have investigated whoever signed the pilot off for IFR. As a software developer the iPad (or any general purpose computing device) should NEVER be approved as more than an aid.
Wouldn’t help. Didn’t have up to date subscription to data for his equipment. I guess he couldn’t afford to fly IFR. Are there any “poor” IFR pilots flying their own/rented planes?
Hoover, when you speak, I listen! And I am a retired airline pilot with 30,000 hours. I really trust what you say.
An unprepared and untrained pilot. The controller was a saint !
Nice to have a video where the family didn't perish because of the pilots incredibly severe problem of incompetency.
Thanks Hoover! Great video. I enjoy them.
I really appreciate the Pilot Debriefs and they have solidified in my mind that I do not have the where with all to be a pilot.
You explained the situation so well, Hoover.
What a wonderful controller, he did an amazing job in this situation
Hoover, I really like how you keep to the facts. You keep the emotional aspect out of the breakdown each time.
It’s very easy to enter the rabbit hole of “pilot stupidity” when discussing an incident/accident.
Another great job…video…for us.
Wow. That is crazy and the flight controllers did an amazing job. This reminds me of the old Q&A… Question: What do you call the doctor who graduated last in his class? Answer: Doctor. In other words, just because someone gets a license, it doesn’t always mean that they know what they’re doing. Thanks for all you do @pilot-debrief.
That controller did everything and more than what was required, a hero in the truest sense
I’m seeing that more and more. We have actually hired “professionals” that absolutely can’t fly without an iPad and certainly can’t fly without a moving map.
It’s disgusting.
You actually see this more and more?? Really??
@@sludge8506 I don't doubt they do. The entire world is falling to gross incompetence.
As a pilot who uses an iPad somewhat regularly, it’s mostly a convenience tool. Sure, I could go home and print out every approach plate I need. But that would be literally dozens of pieces of paper I’d have to reprint every month when they’re out of date.
@@sectorcodecjust getting into IFR and I’m a a lower time pilot, but the iPad is more like you said.
It’s an EFB (electronic flight bag) rather than messing around with big maps that run out of date, supplements for airports and needing different runway print outs for every place, you press around on foreflight or garmin and it brings up the information you need with no fumbling or wasted time. You don’t fly off the map, you look at it for pilotage and dead wrecking help and the charts you may need when you’re landing or taxiing. Nothing too complicated there.
How does one fly based on an iPad. Insane.
@@sectorcodec poor excuse. Just print out the main plates your planning to use and a couple more, cut them out to size and put it in your pocket.
Excellent video! Kudos to the air traffic controller who was very professional. The pilot is very lucky in this case and luck is not something you want to rely on.
You do a fantastic job and service…keep doing what you’re doing!
mannn I kept expecing to see the video go south to him crashing but was pleasantly surprised to see he made it. Hopefully it was a wakeup call for him. Controller did an outstanding job for sure. Another great video hoover!
That controller deserves recognition.
It’s a good day when we get a new pilot debrief episode!
The pilot should be grounded. He lied and risked the safety of many people.
Your briefs are very educational, many thanks for posting them
I guess each of us have our own preference in how the story is told. I do like the intro information about the end outcome because it causes me to sharply focus on the details of the story that lead to the safe landing, safe but narrow escape landing, or a terrible tragedy. I find I concentrate on each detail as the story unfolds trying to determine step by step what could have gone wrong or what was the saving grace.
I really appreciate your debriefs ,brings back memories of days as a ATC operator, and limited pilot, and 1000 plus jump Yahoo, I'd fly with you any day any where....
Thanks Hoover ❤✈
Anytime!
Another excellent video,Hoover...thank you@@pilot-debrief
@pilot-debrief are those 2 models on thefire placer behind you kits that you made yourself or premade desk top models?
Man that was painful to listen to. Kudos to the controller for keeping his cool and not canceling his IFR. By not doing so, he definitely let the pilot know of the seriousness of this attempt. Glad this had a positive ending and the pilot was had to take remedial IFR training, but this could’ve been really bad had there been terrain in the area or more traffic. 🙏🏼
Am I alone in questioning whether this guy actually held an instrument rating?
I’ve learned a lot about flying watching these Debriefs. Mainly that everything relies on a trustworthy pilot and a serious checklist.
I hope the company insuring this pilot’s plane heard about this incident and made appropriate adjustments to his premiums.
If you would have paid attention to the video, you would know the aircraft sold one month after the incident.
@@james1795 Lighten up, Francis.
The insurance company is not the appropriate entity to regulate via insurance rates. The local FSDO is the correct entity. The reason is, when action is taken by the FSDO, there is a legal process - and the pilot has rights. As such, the pilot has the right to be represented by counsel to, basically, provide the pilot’s side of the story. And while insurance companies can set premiums based upon actuarial facts, were they to make a decision to raise rates based upon no actual incident or accident, would be to step into the regulatory role that they aren’t - nor want to be - tasked with filling.
You could simply try having a clue next time
@@JustMe-fo4ev You and @arctain1 don’t get invited to a lot of parties, do you? At least not twice.
Sam Kinison should have taken over this one. "VFR means VISUAL!" Can you see the runway? How are you going to approach something you can't see? Ahh! Ahhhh!"
The pilot likely had inadequate equipment and lied about it. Was planning to get vectors out of the clouds and land VFR.
I like watching these types of videos as entertainment. ... I'm not a pilot but even this one had me scratching my head! He's lucky he got on the ground safely.
Good one Hoover.
Thank for posting. I'm not a pilot but even I have the small sense to do my road based navigating with a GPS "AND" a paper map in the planning stage. It's amazing how often, the technology lets you down. Paper notes however, always work, even without a power supply! 😁😁. I don't want to come across as being severe on the pilot here, but there is just no way he should have been flying that aircraft, in bad weather with clearly no proper preparation.
Maybe sometimes it doesn't seem that way, but ATC is your friend. Controller in this clip deserves multiple prizes: patience, understanding, and competence.
The Controller could tell the Pilot had trouble because of the route he took trying to find the initial approach fix.
The controller could have attempted to vector the Pilot straight in on the approach which he ultimately did.
MRB is pretty wide open.
Nothing easier than an airport with a tower and primary radar.
Good point .. if he had asked for help and leveled with the controller from the beginning, they would have spoon fed him the data necessary to get down.
Great controller. Thanks for doing these kinds of situations, and not just tragedies.
Like you, ex military pilot, now CFII. Very common to have pilots show up for an IPC and they can’t use the IFR navigator installed in the aircraft. This is particularly a problem for pilots who got their certificate before GPS approaches became so prevalent. This pilot sure gives every indication he was using his iPad as his sole navigation device. Oh, no an iPad is not an approved navigation device.
He didn't even have an approach plate😮
@@sarahalbers5555 Didn’t need one. The GPS will give you all the course data. Depending on the system, it will also give you each step down altitude. Older systems might not have the step down altitudes, but just ask. an LPV get vectors onto final, follow the course and glide path. Again ask for DA. Weather was not that bad. If I recall, he would have broken out at 1000 fr or more above ground. Don’t know who was flying, but couldn’t possibly have an instrument certificate. Declare an emergency if needed.
Videos like this are invaluable to learn from. Keep debriefing and helping the rest of us stay safe. Thanks!
If I had ever performed like that in the cockpit during training, my instructor would've thrown my ass out mid flight
Most patient ATC ever
Sunday morning gift dropped ❤🎉. Downloaded the pilot debriefing guide you made as well.
Wow. I was expecting a grim outcome. Thankfully, he made it, and hopefully, this was an eye-opener for him.
I’ve never cringed harder than when I heard “the iPad tells me where the intersection is to let me know when I’m there”. This man should not be flying IFR.
Thanks for your work, Hoover. I started watching because I was considering learning to fly. I am an artist and writer and very left brained. You have made me realise I'm definitely not the kind of human who should. ❤
I'm not a pilot but this is all so interesting
You contacted the approach controller for this story? That's pretty impressive. Good research.
I force all my primary students, and even my instrument students for a good chunk of the training course, to turn off “Ownship” on their iPad. Yes, by all means learn how to use it for weather, briefings, maps, airport data, and so on. But until I’m convinced that they’ve got the proper respect for situational awareness and navigation, they’re not allowed to use it for that kind of crutch.
I like this idea 🎉
Right on Hoover. Great report. I always learn many items from your posts.
The iPad dying is the exact reason why my school always has updated paper copies of chart supps, sectionals (both vfr and ifr), and terps in the plane because there is always someone who forgets to charge their iPad before doing a XC solo whether it be private or commercial. Also for the commercial students if the iPad die and we are about to fly into IMC, always request an RNAV approach as our GPS will literally tell us the altitude restrictions with the points to fly towards (making the workload so much easier) and we never let our comm students fly XC solo without first making them shoot approaches in both the sim and aircraft they will be flying for the solo to check ride standards and making them IFR current.
Don’t forget it gets hot too! Mine crapped out on my solo XC. Thankfully I knew I had to maintain a westerly heading.
Hey Hoover, love all your videos. I do flight sim both civilian and military. My heart gets going in a sim and crazy how fast things get out of control. To be a pilot you must be in complete control and focus. Watching your videos actsully helps me be better sim pilot. Koodos to all avaition personal. Ground crew, tower pilots etc.
Martinsburg has a great restaurant on the field. I have a backup tablet.... and my phone has my iFlyEFB system in it too. If you are going to fly IFR.... you need multiple backups !!!! Sounds like his plane really didn't have a gps in it because even the old systems should have the waypoints. he would have been better doing the ILS26. Every old plane can pick up the ILS frequencies. (or VOR) He's lucky he didn't hurt himself. FYI... we just had an incident (outside of KJST) where someone cashed in IMC who wasn't IFR, but had been doing it illegally for a very long time. One point you missed..... KMRB is in the 60 mile ring of the DC SFRA. If he dropped the IFR clearance.... he would have needed his SFRA training also. (To fly VFR into it) THe outer ring isn't as strict as the inner ring, and the FRZ, but it still has special rules. (mostly a speed restriction)
@superbmediacontentcreator Backups are so important in everyday life. Just this year someone wandered off in Death Valley, no extra water & no cell phone meant a slow & painful death. I read stories of hunters and hikers going way out there, one lighter, an extra tee shirt, no sat. phone & if they did have one would not have an extra battery.
@superbmediacontentcreator This site doesn't like links so just look up Marten Hartwell in Wikipedia. I was in high school in northern Canada when this happened, nightly news for 30 straight days. The short story is a medivac flight; 2 patients, a nurse, an inept & unprepared pilot with 20 below weather. For some reason the beacon wasn't turned on until day 30 and rumors of cannibalism were confirmed at the inquiry. The city I lived in then had a hospital attached to the university with a top of the line trauma center and naturally a helipad. Property values around the university were high & a petition was started to limit the "awful racket" the helicopters made. The sheer stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me, that could be you in that helicopter one day. Have a good day, I'm out doing house stuff.
@superbmediacontentcreator - Could you reference the rule for carrying a backup EFB for Part 91 flights? I think that rule is for Part 121 only. Frankly, I carry two iPads, an iPhone, an old laminated paper sectional, and print outs of a few of my favorite approaches. I mainly carry the paper charts to stay current in using them. It’s not uncommon for my primary iPad to overheat. I’ve never had to resort to using my iPhone.
not in the SFRA, in the 60nm speed restriction but not the SFRA thats only 30nm radius, I used to be based at KMRB for a few years its a wonderful airport
That route is almost like a straight in approach to runway 08! Wow! Just watching his altitude fluctuations indicate he is not a seasoned instrument pilot.😢 Glad the survived. Kudos to the controller.
I think the hidden story here is if youve messup real bad, come clean, ask for help and keep living.
Your uploads are always so interesting and your analysis is always so clear and direct. This one, though short, was riveting!!