Should You Ever FOLD POCKET KINGS Preflop??
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- Опубликовано: 13 апр 2023
- Today we're going to put you to the test. Here are five situations where a poker player decided to fold POCKET KINGS preflop. These come in various stakes and situations, and it's up to you to decide whether it was the right play.
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Have you ever folded pocket kings preflop? Be honest.
Should be Illegal
YES...
Only in tournaments. And every time I did it, the guy showed me the aces. Never have done it in a cash game.
Once against a grandpa, I was right🤣
No lol
Little did Doug know, he'd be folding KK pre just 7 days later at the Lodge lol
Good to see you back on the RUclips grind. Keep it up 👍
Your fold against Helmuth was the best fold I've ever seen
Thirsty
Helmuth only had 12 combos of QT… and we all know Helmuth to be an aggressive-whale-bluffer.. so yeah, amazing fold.
@@supersmoo7377 12, doug blocks a Ten
@@viewerck yeah, i fixed it, thanks.. was up late in the middle of the night, multi-tasking while I watched this.
Love this format!! Thanks Doug!!
I've never folded KK preflop in a cash game. I've had people fold it to me 3 times that I know of, and it was a bad fold all 3 times.
I don’t think I’ve ever folded kings pre. Def have got away from queens and Jacks preflop tho. I Actually folded jacks preflop once to two all ins. They had AA vs KK, it was gross
@@mepmep27 nice man
If I remember correctly, in the Upswing Lab, Fried Mulders has a pre-flop module in which he recommends folding KK pre in the following situations just 100 BBs deep. UTG open, MP 3bet, KK 4bet (from any position), UTG jam, MP jam. That MP jam is so strong staring into an uncapped 4 bet range and an uncapped 5bet shove range, that KK is not doing very well. MP's range (theoretically) is only AA and KK and blocking KK, makes this a fold. This is also true if instead of UTG and MP, it's MP and CO.
Also, in deep stack, KK is a fold to a 6bet (or even a 5bet sometimes).
All this is theory and most situations are unique.
90% of the time, when someone folds KK pre, it's cause they don't have another bullet to reload with.
Other 10% they know their opponent
I've seen old guys fold aces on ten high flop. Scared money shouldn't be playing poker tbh. But some people are just there for fun
Where's Ryuske? 🤔
90% of the time I lose with kings
And I play them aggressively.
Lmao this is not true
Love the content rapid fire Doug! Keep it coming 🔥
Great content Doug, can u do the math for folding vs calling for all 5 videos and see if it's a positive play or negative play?
One thing I will say about hand 2 is by putting ourselves in that spot we can almost for sure take AK and suited aces out of our opponents range if they are capable. When they jam overtop they should realize they have very low bluffing equity with only about a 2x raise
When the straddle is ridiculous, you have to be incredibly suspicious about folding kings.. Definitely a weakness exposed in scenarios
"And you determine if you fold."
Me, in every scenario: "LOL KK, LETS GO"
If you need practice folding KK, just play PLO for about a week.
That is so true...
6 combinations of aces, 2 combinations of AKs, 6 combinations of AKo, if I'm not mistaken. Calling a shove over the top with kings is thus largely going to come down to the opponent you're playing against:
* Would they make this move with AKo? That puts enough combinations in there that they're more likely to not have aces than do, so you call.
* Would they only do it with AKs or aces? Probably a fold then, as you block two of the AKs, meaning it's more likely they have aces.
* If they'd do it with any other hand, you have to call.
So pretty much, the only time you're folding is if you think they'd only do it with AKs or AA. As for a random player you've never played with before? I think it's more likely than not they'd be willing to do it with AKo/QQ or worse (from the POV of a player with AKo, they block an ace and king making it less likely you have AA or KK, and even if you have QQ - or worse, KK - they at least have the ace out), so yeah, there's a reason this is almost always a call even if there's the rare occasion that you're coolered.
He showed both cards
Fantastic review of these hands.
15:22 "The poket Jacks!!!" Doug enjoying getting us on the wrong foot again!
how about asking the big question: should you ever fold AA preflop?
not in a cash game
in satellites near the bubble ...yes
@@Gos1234567 Just adding: If you're qualified. If not, shove!
In satellites... yeah.
And I have done that.
7:06 is literally the honest commentary I'm here to watch!
Done it once deep in a MTT in a fourway all in.
"And here is...a different venue"😂😂
And leaving HCL off the shoutout list at the end. True troll god
I love my boy Doug but I'll throw some shade just for fun :
"Here is a sample of 5 hands, selected for their variety and entertainment value. Therefore, you should base your strategy around this. More on strategy and game theory in my masterclass course. Sincerely, Doug"
The only ones I got right were player based which I guess speaks to this being a read-based decision, fold vs tilly, call bill klein
Hope to visit The Lodge some day!
I think that if you have a lot of information on your opponent and can place their hand on Aces, well more power to you. but I'm usually going broke or at least seeing a flop with Kings.
The supreme leader is back and better than ever. Thank you as always Doug!
Kim Jong Un ?
Trick to see if someone is playing with 100% of themselves: Folding Pocket Kings Pre.
Wdym playing 100% of themselves
@@djmmz2648 not being sponsored by other people’s money to play in big games
@@pog3166 thanks man
@@djmmz2648 no problem. You’d be surprised how many players on hustler casino are sponsored by rich ppl who think they’ll win them money
The first example is knowing the Player. Solid fold.
keep it up bro!!
Johnnie's reason for folding from his vlog#1... "when an Asain Hollywoods and shoves pre it's ALWAYS aces...."
The hand where multiple straddles are happening (9:17 ish) I wish I knew more about the game and how it was playing. Are these mandatory straddles? Are the players used to these stakes? Saying 140bb effective vs. 1400bb effective is very different. Sure, you could argue technically you're 140bb in this specific hand, but it's a little more in-depth than that, especially when it comes to live poker.
After looking over it again, I dont think this 25, 50, 100 straddle is a normal thing considering the average stack of everyone else is 4.5k, so unless there's something I know about this guy jamming, I'm probably folding KK here too.
Jackie's fold was the only one I'd probably fold as well. For all the others, if you got it, you got it.
At 5:16 villain does the smirk with with the outstretched lips, one of the big tells of strength covered in Zachary Elwood's "Reading Poker Tells". Opponent feigns disappointment before betting.
so funny cause earlier for the first time ever i folded kings preflop cause i was AFK in the bathroom, i came back to see the end of the hand play out and someone had basically hit trip 5's on the flop then turned quad 5's all in vs two others
the person with quad 5's had 52o preflop
so happy i was afk for that lol
That's happened to me with AA twice...come back from the toilet, or from the break slightly late, and hand auto folded, i think Inwould of won them hands too iirc. 😢😂
If you had been there and raised, 52o wouldn't be in the pot. Could've just been a preflop raise and take.
A lot depends on the player type. Some OMC's will never 4/5 bet preflop with anything other than K's or A's.
Omc??
@@connortoogood6601Old Man Coffee ... The old dudes who are the tightest nits ever
some OMC's wont even 3 bet without AA/KK
Next, can you do a video of the reverse? Tournament, final table, I had AA, 2nd/9 in stack size. Action to my right goes all-in with JJ @ ~25k, I go all-in over the top for ~100k total, and there's stack #1 sitting on KK. I know what he has. I want to show him my aces... I all but directly tell him, what my hand is... he knew. he KNEW! but called anyway and flopped the K for a set. I got 9th. 8th paid. Still mad.
Why didn’t you and JJ split 8th?
100k bb stack seems rather deepstack for a tourney ft. 😂
Eubank Jr is a pro boxer, and he's also friends with Ryuske.... Ryuske mentioned it on one of the lives. Im sure Eubank knows where he is lol
Doug is it almost not worth it anymore five betting all in with aces anymore? Flatting them seems to be the more profitable play. Of course it’s situation dependent but when extremely deep it’s almost worth flatting the four bet with the aces. Thoughts ?
once, to old man greg at isle of capri biloxi circa 2006. 8 handed, he had about 400 bbs, i covered. folds to him on the button. he opens, i 3bet sb, bb fold. he 4bet, i 5 bet, he jams, i fold. he didn't show.
That's actually a good spot to be folding in tbf (assuming they aren't a maniac). 😅
@@DaftFader yeah nah he was an omc. i heard later he told someone else he had t8 tho, so you never know.. 🤷♂
@@toomanymikes3857 At that depth it's stack off threshold tho... And against a 400+bb deep 6bet jam aces is a fair stack off threshold against most players imo.
He probably just said 10/8 to make it look like he wasn't so transparent when someone asked him "so you had aces right?" Or something like this lol.
Unless you played agressive (compared to the table) and he thought he was being bullied in pots and had enough. 😅
In some parallel universe there is an alternate Doug Polk with a 10 second video consisting only of Doug yelling, "DON'T FOLD POCKET KINGS PRE"
Doug, when do we analyze the pre flop fold of AA with Fishman in The Big Game so we can say 1 for 1 of correctly folding aces pre to flopped quads? 😂😂 We need more people to start folding them pre-flop to balance out their ranges or something. 😏
The problem with folding KK is there’s a non zero spaz factor from your opponents. You never know when they might just be tilting, or think that you’re overbluffing and decide to take a stand to shut you down. For that reason he said we must always get it in
But sometimes you do know. If an old lady with a vpip of I played my last hand in February 4 bet shoves, it's AA.
"You never know" speak for yourself. Some of us know.
Suppose a 99.9999% chance of AA and a .0001% chance of 72o. Run that through Equilab and check the equity.
This is exactly why Doug said you need to play in light games and short stack games if you are going to NEVER fold kings. you can’t risk blowing your bank roll at any given time without the nuts pre flop
Unless it’s against nitty Jennifer Tilly who 4-bets UTG vs UTG+1 all-in for 200+ BB’s.
So...some times raise ..some times call... & some times fold . ?? great video as always Doug thx GGDonk 😂
Thank you for another video!
2:31 Justin 'I don't do handshakes people' Schwartz
In hand #1 Tilly bet 23k into 2.1k, meaning you only need to call with like 10% of your three-betting range to be unexploitable. Even from a GTO perspective only calling Aces there should be fine, right?
Man, I've gotten everyone wrong that I didn't remember lmfaoo
If you get them after going to piss in a home game, it’s a prank, and a fold can be really stylish.
Course on Back-4 betting Jacks coming soon to Upswing
It's probably the hardest question in Poker tbh. I've never folded KK pre-flop but I would depending how much the other player raised me.
The hollywooding from Ken in the second one 😂
Rick Salomon vs John Morgan in super high roller bowl cash game; folded KK correctly v AA pre flop.
I once folded KK versus a preflop min-raise from Phillip Hellmuth.
my record for folding QQ preflop is awful.
like 1/6 times correct
fold when they have JJ or AK
call all in when they roll over AA or KK
The only time I'd ever fold KK pre would be in a satellite near the payout period. Outside of that, if they have AA, GG
Easily could do with a 2nd large stack in the bubble or final table for ICM.
As the 2nd one was finishing I was saying to myself "yeah these are all before the A5s jams became fashionable"...
You must always go all-in pre with KK? Of course not!
But in some of these hands people could just call (when it is not an all-in situation). Especially in that hand where guys were insanely deep. It's an absolutely correct play.
Every hand I'm like call call call lol😅😂
This was a really fun video
I folded AK off to a 5bet all in preflop with Someone else already all-in for less when I was in position being on the Botton. I would of Chopped with AK off against the all-in for less had J10 suited. The Guy that had me covered was very tight and didn't 3 bet until then for the first 3 hrs he was there. I'm on the fence if it was a bad Fold.
never play off a stack that is so big you fold kings pre and also just never fold kings pre.
Douglas
Wow
You must be feeling great!!!!
"and by working tirelessly I mean hiring someone and paying them to do it for me." Love the deadpan humor Doug😂
He’s got amazing staff
Very nice change of pace from your other videos, it's much more entertaining and enjoyable to watch. Your other videos are getting a bit cringe Doug, but I still watch all of them 😅
Fwiw the all-in in my hand was for $16K. The stack sizes were wrong.
Pretty sure Jacky's fold is correct in theory. Tight position multiway battle, you sometimes can just play with AA. Some preflop sims even fold KK at 100bb (200nl rake) facing multiway action, so at 800bb deep it's not out of the questions.
he should just be calling
@@tehblogger exploitatively, maybe. In theory, don't think solver would ever cold call here with a strong uncapped range behind.
Interesting how solved ranges would look like
Of the 8 times I did it none of them seemed near as wild as Polks 2nd nut str8 against Hellmuth, that was a freak show.
About 25 years ago Card Player magazine had a long article regarding folding AA Pre-Flop. This was pre-Moneymaker so it wasn’t too exciting.
FUN FACT: KK vs AK off -an Ace hits the flop or turn card 99.76% of the time 😎🤓😉😉😉😉
Sketchy things going on with the hustler lineups. There a group of mischievous characters. Which is why if you wanna play live streams ! Come on down to the lodge guys 😅 I'm currently not in TX but love visiting there and recommend it ;)
On my last day in vegas recently I had KK 3 times in 30 mins. I got felted 3 times, twice against AA. On the third hand I just knew but still made the all in call pre for comedy value and the distant hope I’d be wrong.
1. Nope, wouldn't throw away before flop.
2. Yes.
3. Nope, i'd play.
4. Nope, i'd play.
5. Yes, fold.
When playing in smaller games, 1/3$-5/10$ KK pre flop facing a 4 bet out of nearly any position is an automatic 5-bet shove. If you’re 9 ways it’s 4.32% likely that an opponent has AA, even less likely shorter handed. If they have AA and you get stacked that’s just life, there are so many hands you get to fold and take the pot or beat that 4 bet pre. It’s obviously different when playing high stakes, just wanted to put it out there for the homies grinding (doesn’t apply to the super NITs)
Doug’s content is always top notch, but this episode is just extra 🔥
Do you want to Marry him 💍?
"Extra" - that term makes me itchy.
love you bro and the content has been slappin lately, but my goodness this one was so boring lol. I keep checking back for the Berkey Airball heads up match updates?
make a vid on the hustler live magnus carlsen stream, thanks doug
“Bonus fold” I’m officially dead 💀💀
What about Sam Barnharts pocket kings fold pre at WSOP?
Yep. 1 time. Final table of a nightly local tournament. 4 handed. UTG player is table short. I played with him every week for years. He opens to 2 BB. Im +1 and raise KK to 6.5. Folds to UTG who goes all in for about 13 BB. I go to fold and one player tells the dealer to hold my cards and calls the floor over. He tells the floor he suspects collusion. He knows the THREE of us road together and I'm dumping chips to my friend the short so we can knock him out and chop. Well we all did ride together. So the floor looks at my cards (discretely) and says "well?" . At this point UTG says WTF did you folds kings? And he tables his AA face up. A crowd had gathered by that point. A nice roar went up and the floor asked the other player if he had any more questions. Naturally, 10 minutes later the 4th was gone and we three chopped. When you know you know.
You missed out on the epilogue from that PokerGo hand. They ran the board out anyway and there was a K and a T on it. So, folding Kings that time was wrong too.
The only one I said I’d have folded was Jacky v Bill v Garrett. So deep and cold calling a 5 bet doesn’t seem very appealing. Not to mention it was a UTG open.
Before I even watch- Love the concept!
Yes, month and a half ago. Long story short. 850 in stack playing, 1/3. Utg make it 14, goofy cutoff limps. Button 3 bet to 50, I 4 bet to 150, goofy limper shoves for 900. Button snap calls off 300+.I tank like 3 minutes and fold. They both had AA. Insane. KK since then has been a battle. 2 weeks later same table I Have KK 3x pre 3 bettor IP 3 bets to 30 I call. Flop set. I check raise flop from 30 to 100. Turn comes A I lead 100 he shoves and when you know and call anyway for last 300 he turned set lol. More would follow but you get it.
Thank you Doug, it's easier to fold it now
Once I busted out and reload. Immediately got pocket KK and went all in and lose it all again to pocket AA 😮
On the 2nd hand, Ken did the obvious fake concern sigh all in move. Thats almost always AA and a live reg like Vibes definitely picked up on it.
I could see myself folding Kings pre, but only if my opponent was all loose goosey, eating a sandwich.
See, what you need to understand is that everything your opponent does at the poker table conveys information.
thats a fact, jack
really nice reference. never been done and certainly not overused
he should call this polker hands
Someone limp reraised me 8x over my already large raise. I almost folded there but I tank called. J83r board and they open jam 2x pot. I snap fold KK face up and they showed AA. So close to making the greatest fold pre. I just didn’t think this person was capable of making bluffs like that.
I’ve folded QQ and JJ multiple times to single reraises and have been right every time.
Yes.
Once vs the biggest nit of all time and would never 4 bet jam without aces. I was right he showed
Another time I was 4 tabling and had KK at 3 tables at once I got all in on 2 of them and was up against aces. The third one once he 4 bet jammed I folded figured the RNG was stuck like it always is online. He showed air 😢
The ones who had it went all-in. Small raises with kings are traps so you always have to call if 4 bet no jam.
I got someone to fold QQ when I was bluffing with 27 in a cash game once lol but I don't suggest doing that. It was pre flop they folded too. No flop.
I wisht I watch this video yesterday 😂😂 I had to fold 😂
I’m never folding Kings preflop! Even if I’m all but sure that they have Aces! They have to show me! Besides, even if they do have the Aces, there’s still 5 cards to see 👀
This Just made me think about the KK Vs KK vs AA on hustler. Imagine just one of them did fold like damn
I was playing 1/3 in NO and had AK vs AK vs AA with 4 of a kind on the board lmao
Doug I have BREAAAAAKING NEWS !
Pepe is my old backer for the sketchy ass home game scene in LA where they rake 125 cap 10% every hand. Also Pepe owes tons of money and Ryan F just let's these people on the streams whils simultaneously stopping grinders like me and many others.
2/5 I suck. Honestly I could never fold kings unless in a tournament and ICM would be the reasoning. Having said that I would also have to be up against someone that had me covered. I know that makes for an easy bluff by my opponents but that’s me.
3rd hand is more then 140BB effective no? Says game is 5/5/10. This is player dependent, but 12k to win 15k right? Lets have a look at range calc 57% against AA,kk,Qq, aks, ak, math says its a fold this time. Maybe i should have ran math vs tilly too. Looking like 1, 3 folds. 2nd hand must call from back pf r. Damn even wirh jj in there its still a fold. The power of allin pf. Def need to be looking to get lil wilder wirh suited Ax pf in full ring games.
Doug has amazing videos and great analysis (when not being snark , and sarcastic). Couldn't people say the same thing about your fold of the second nuts vs Hellmuth. That will forever be considered brilliant and world class. However if he doesn't have exactly the nuts it would have been meme city featuring that lay down. Granted people that understand GTO and solvers get the range dynamics, polarized sizing by Hellmuth, and absolutely horrible speech play -feigning weakness- with the blocker stuff. That said that was a play by you that was either going to be iconic or awful depending on the result. Just saying. keep up the good work
I figure it'll be aces sometimes but it's way more frequent that it's not aces when they shove preflop. Gotta know your opponent.
I would have folded 2nd hand only, and would have lost it all the 1st hand and made a lot of money hands 3-5
I also remember a school teacher folding kings once, he was a "loose cannon". But he was up tremendously and just wanted to stay that way
No, best fold I've done is AQ pre-flop in position against an aggro player. He flashed AK, called me a name, and I got some applause.