Killing John so abruptly and unsurmoniously in the first couple of minutes is an unforgivable act. Yes they still stopped judgement day but then this new threat arises so it still makes the victory in T2 feel empty.
You know a movie is bad when you're lead actress and icon Linda Hamilton in an interview said the movie was just ok upon watching it for the first time.
Terminator Dark Fate is rubbish. John Connor is killed & all males are killed & replaced by 3 women. Woke & Identity politics strong instead of sticking to legacy of T2 & style of filmmaking fans loved. James Cameron, or a similar great Director (Eg with T2 film crew) please redo Terminator 3 without the politics and make Edward Furlong a lead role (Include Arnie & Lynda also) and please keep they style like T2 > Atmosperic, Robots with gravitas, the T2 theme music playing throughout. Oh what we hope for 🙏👍
I bought the ticket, got me a coke and some popcorn, sat down after I undressed my leather jacket, had a big smile on my face after the first shots of Linda Hamilton’s mental Hospital tapes, was pleasently surprised how good the De-aging process had become after all and Boom! Three shots in my heart and I watched another favorite Franchise die right in front of my eyes. I stood up, visibly shaken, got my jacket, excused myself from my sitting neighbor and left the theatre.
I left too. I love salvation & T1 & T2 & T3 to a degree, so killing John killed the franchise. It would be smarter to continue of salvation. Just my opinion.
First of all I respect your opinion, I don't want to crap on anyone's opinion that did enjoy the movie. Dark Fate feels like an "What if" story, it doesn't feel canon imo. Us as fans can choose what's canon, I feel. In my mind, T1 - Genisys is canon for me. (I know they're not supposed to be). How I look at it is this: • T2 did change the timeline • T3 Judgement Day caused consequence (T-800 did tell John he would kill him, which happened in Genisys) • T4 was the beginning of the future war • T5, with postponing Judgement it altered the timeline, the result is that John lost, he gets turned into a Terminator. Sarah timeline also gets changed. I know there's plot holes, but it works for me. I don't need a reset with killing off teenager John and having someone new take over that role with a similar story. The movie was well directed, it had some good characters but I just didn't care for the story.
Didn’t Arnie say he could detect “ripples” through the time line. I believe this is the case regardless of whether they originated from Skynet or Legion.
I think you're right. I'm gonna have to rewatch to confirm, but I feel like there was a conversation in which Terminators were revealed to have some kind of temporal awareness, that told him when these other terminators were going to come through.
It's still bullshit. Because when "sarah" showed up on the bridge, the rev 9 hadn't just come through. He had been around for a while and it made no sense whatsoever for her to know they were all on that bridge in that exactmoment. That's what we call shitty, inept, incompetent writing. Like the whole goddamn rest of this sorry ass excuse for a movie. Fuck this movie! And fuck Tim Miller!
What bogles my mind is the thought process that runs through these screen writers minds? "Hey what the people need is a retcon of Terminator because the sequels were trash." "Yeah I agree" "Alright for the first five minutes of the film we should kill John Connor". " So what's the point of Retconning it in the first place?" "Because the savior of humanity needs to be a woman." 😂😂
@@meltyboys946 I'm not hating on women. I'm hating on stupid screenwriters who can't write good scripts. Don't you have some feminist parade to attend or something?
Why are we comparing one move to the next. And I've thought about it, I completely understand how someone could make that argument but only IF THIS MOVIE CAME OUT RIGHT AFTER T2. ITS BEEN LIKE 20 years and we have so many shitty John Conner sequels that it was time to do something different. And this doesn't discredit what happened in T2 because it was about ending Judgment day, which they did. That was the end of Johns storyline.
@@sonsolar I am comparing them because it is a similar element of having a main character killed of at the beginning in the sequel. People hate Alien 3 for it, and Cody put it last on his list for this reason alone, and constantly brings it up as a negative , but here its suddenly okay? I have listened to his reasoning, but still if its okay here it shouldnt be such a big issue for Alien 3.
@Nathaniel Gates The deaths May be disrispectful to some people but they are in no way forgotten in the movie. Ripley having to deal with Newts death and asking for the autopsy, because of her fear of the Alien threat is no easy choice for her and is not an easy scene. Also they have a funeral scene for them, which is contrasted with the birth of the new Alien, plus added with Dillons speech is a very effective sequence. I highly doubt they written the deaths in the movie just to piss of the fans (and even though you say Johns death had a reason fans are pissed anyway 😂) Obviously Alien 3 is a story of studio meddling for the ages but still Newt would have had to been recast definetly since the actress would have aged by then, so that would have looked quite weird, looking different after cryosleeping. I believe David Fincher made the best he could out of a bad situation. He made the bleakest, Darkest entry in the series which it should be since this has started off as a horror franchise yet people are always pissed we dont get the happy family ending. Ripley having the strength to overcome the deaths, on a hostile planet , with no weapons, no one to trust and a New type of Xeno to face, and in the end choosing to sacrifice herself to save humanity from this creature and the greed of humans which would surely bring extinction on Earth Now that is a powerful character with a powerful closing arc to HER story. Ressurection is the abomination, that has no reason to exist only to shit all over the end of a PERFECT TRILOGY.
@@Inuprince You're still incorrect. They aren't the same thing. It's an issue in Alien 3 because it legitimately was a waste. They died off screen do to a malfunction of some sort so emotionally it does feel as if they were disrespectful to thoes characters. It legitimately was a senseless death, you also wanted to see what happened in the story after they escaped. It Dark Fate, John is killed by a Terminator, which was a possibility from the very first film. His life was always in danger (by movie rules it was unlikely that he would die) but him possiby getting killed at some point was literally tied to the fabric of the stories we were watching unfold. If this movie had came out two years after T2 they could have killed him and went in this direction, simply because it would have completed Sarah's arc and to a certain extent ,destiny /fate. If you think about it, at the begging of the Terminaotr she's going to raise the leader of the resistance,she stops the need for there to be a resistance in her time line but the future still unfolds in a similar way but at the end of Dark Fate she's grooming/rasing the leader of the resistance.
@Michael Anderson I'm not wrong. It's not nearly the same as how they did Newt and Hicks, which is what we are talking about in this specific thread. The franchise is about killer cyborgs, John was killed on screen by a killer cyborg. Newt was killed by a blown fuse off screen.
I respect your opinion but I can't get passed John Connors death. Even if this wasn't skynet he would have still been a asset to the new resistance. This pisses all over T2.
I disagree and I have yet to see the foreign box office, have you? The last 2 bombed domestically as well but were carried by foreign box office. they may still make another.
Also i would love to know how, just stating something on line doesn't make it a fact. They stopped sky net the stopped the original judgement day they were successful he was a hero they did save countless lives. Even if they only delayed a robot machine takeover it was not their actions but humanities that brought the second one. they succeeded in their mission. All the lives between the original judgement day and the second nowe are lived because of their actions. i don't get how some can not grap this. What did you want them to do? They couldn't recast people would be pissed they couldn't have fat sweaty bloated Ed Furlong play the whole film. The film makers weren't the ones that shit on John Connors legacy it was Furlong by becoming a fuck up and destroying his hollywood career.
@@glyn420 variety as reported this morning that it's on course to make 180-200m globally it cost to make 185-200m plus 80-100m for marketing so to break even it needs to make 450m which it won't come close to making so no sequel
I actually thought the opening scene of John being killed was a dream Sarah was having.. and was waiting for her to wake up like ok already stop playing with us
No it's not the same. The studio decided to Kill Hicks and Newt due to budget. In that movie it served absolutely no purpose. John's death in Dark Fate help progress the story in a new direction after the other sequels ran the character through the mud.
@@coreyhernandez231 Ah, so arbitrarilly killing a kid in the first 5 minutes was progress eh? Is your idea of renovating a house is changing the wall paper too? Dark Fate gender swapped... that is it... and they did so in a pretty shitty fashion by gunning down John as a kid. Not only that, but it shits all over T1 and T2, making those classics not matter. There is no difference, because John's death was just as pointless. Dark Fate didn't progress, they just changed the names and went in the same ole same ole.
@@jessemoore7081 I expanded and progressed the story for Sarah Connor's character. Since Terminator 1 and 2 it's been about her protecting John, this movie tapped into the reality of her failing to save him and what that meant for her as a mother and a human being. The opening was brilliant as the tone was now set as a dark and somber film and not like the cartoonish sequels before. If you hated the movie solely because John was killed and that shitted over your nostalgia then idk what to say.
@@coreyhernandez231 Funny you mention nostalgia considering while Dark Fate was "progressing" as you say, they still managed to hang on to Sarah Connor and a T-800... certainly couldn't be due to nostalgia at all, nah. I also wouldn't call gender swaps, and name changes "progress". Dark Fate is still old formula with some new window dressing.
I'm definitely glad this movie bombed at the box office which means there will be no more bullshit sequels. James Cameron and Tim Miller are definitely on something. This was just as bad as Hicks and Newt dying in Alien 3. That's a very legit comparison.
why did Skynet send one? Same reason. AI Took over in the future because HUMANKIND didnt learn and the same "Dark Fate" happens regardless until they stop the whole AI again. I mean it leaves plot holes but this series always had plot holes... I think most of the haters are just looking for things to hate..
They didn't even try to destroy or postpone Legion in this film. I presume any future sequels will be Terminator Salvation like with Sarah and Dani preparing for the inevitable.
John Connor is Skynet’s ultimate villain so it’s really poetic to me that the last line of the final remains of Skynet says “For John”. That almost made me tear up. Sarah’s reaction said it all. She was saying goodbye to Skynet for good.
Wish I Could Agree With You Cody. But, In My Opinion. When Young John Connor Was Shot In The Heart. So Was Every *True* Terminator Fan! And The Franchise Itself. May Be Living On Barrowed Time As Well. Time Will Tell :(
It didn’t fail you guys just don’t like seeing movies about strong female characters even though terminator has always been about strong female characters
Nothing at all wrong with strong female characters in movies. My mom is a strong female character. haha! But they shouldn't have to kill a 10 year old iconic male character. Just to have one.That sucks.
@@meltyboys946 I have no problem with strong female characters! I love Sarah Connor in T2, but are we supposed to believe a five foot tall 100 pound female is the new leader of the resistance? If it were a 5 foot 100 pound male I'd be equally thinking WTF.
I didnt mind Grace but come on. John Connor's resistance was far less technically advanced then Dani's resistance but yet John was able to capture a T-800 then reprogram it to protect himself. But Dani just sends back a human Hybrid junkie that cant walk or stay conscious after one fight.
I just want to say that my favorite movie of all time is Terminator 2. Its the first movie I ever watched in theaters. I am a 90's kid and I related to Edward Furlong's John Connor character so much growing up. He was the heart and soul of that movie. As for Dark fate, to just kill that character that I and many other people loved out of nowhere in the beginning for really no reason was a disservice to die hard T2 fans.
If Skynet was defeated how did Skynet send back multiple Terminators back in time kill John it wouldn't exist. Killing John Connor was a huge fucking mistake, ruins T2 ending, nowadays in films you got to have female protagonists saving mankind because men are all incompetent imbeciles apparently. I'm all for strong female roles but you had 3 in this film when it may been better just having Sarah who's mortal, it would've added more drama knowing she can be killed & made protecting Dani more intense. As for the young girl who plays Dani the future leader of humanity i thought she was a awful actress & didn't buy her as future leader, I'd included John teaming up with Sarah in protecting the new protagonist Daniella "Dani" Ramos, John knows he helped stopped Judgement Day but still unsure about mankinds fate, maybe had sleeper cell Terminators activated at a certain time to take John out as a contingency plan that Skynet did as a final defiant act would've worked better, been cool having Arnie battling several versions of himself. Good action scenes though & Linda Hamilton was bad ass as Sarah but killing John & that Carl nonsense about raising a family bloody daft & retcons Kyle Reeces speech to Sarah in the original movie about not feeling pity, remorse or fear, "I do drapes"....ffs. Oh & why didn't anyone give chase when John was killed? were the cops on a donut break, man walks on beach with shotgun & nobody reports it.
The part about Skynet sending another T-800 to kill John actually makes sense. Skynet sent ONE terminator to kill Sarah... it failed. So if Skynet is a smart AI, then it would've sent more than just one. I like to think that Skynet did send T-1000 AND the T-800 because it had learned that John sent a reprogrammed T-800 of his own to protect his past self. I believe that (to keep the plot as logical as possible) the T-800 was supposed to stay idle in the background and only engage if T-1000 failed, which it did. And since every T-800 look like Arnold, it would've have been easier for it to get close to John and catch him off guard because of his connection to the guardian terminator in T2. That's my opinion anyways
After all the terminator movies following the first two, I still find that the first 2 are the only ones that I want to rewatch does anyone else feel the same?
Time travel: He said WHENEVER anyone is sent through time it creates a Rift.He didn't have the coordinates because of skynet but by the nature of the rift that time travel causes. That said, theoretically the coordinates would have been for where either Grace or the Rev 9 came back, not the bridge....so that still doesn't explain how she got there. And the rules you stated aren't correct, if they ended Judgement day, then there was never a resistance which means there was never a need for John to send Kyle back. Soooooo, yeah.
This film was a hot steaming pile of dog shit. It in no way honors the previous two film. An absolute insult with the direction they took Arnold's character. Watch terminator 1 again and pay attention to what Kyle Reese explains to Sarah "Listen. Understand. That Terminator is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it doesn't feel pity of remorse or fear...and it absolutely will not stop.Ever. Until you are dead." They shit on the original idea. They also did everything all the previous film did. Nothing new. Just another cash grab
@Marko Dabrowski Completely agree with you man. Terminator: Dark Fate insulted me as a Fan of The Terminator (1984) and Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991) Fan just like Genisys did it before.
The more time I process what I saw in Dark Fate, the more angry I am as a Terminator fan. This movie had a 200 million dollar budget. This movie could have been great. You finally get Linda Hamilton back to play Sarah Connor, you have James Cameron being more involved with the project, Aronld is back. I thought Edward Furlong was going to be apart of this movie but that's for another time. But you could not cook up a better story than this. It's one thing to have a bad terminator story (I've heard there was like 6 different writers) but is other thing to taint the greatness of the story of T1 and especially T2. I guess I'm just saying that there was so much potential to make this flim not mediocre, or good, but amazing to satisfy hardcore Terminator fans who have been craving a true sequel to T2 since the early 90's.
Also Cody on I side note you and I agree on one thing. No matter how unpopular it is I feel you can make a Terminator film without John Connor. He wasn't in the first one and that was great. I just couldn't get behind the decision to kill him if they are going to continue the same story. Legion is still Skynet.
I feel like theres alot of powerful things wrapped up in the change of fate that many people are missing...but that's the beauty of movies. We all get something different.
Just to put it perspective, where I am coming from. What if in Star Wars: The Force Awakens the story was that Han Solo and Leia were killed in the first 10 minutes in the movie and were given no reason why and just went on with the new characters with a completely different story. Its just a slap in the face to fans who grew up with these iconic characters for decades. Yes, to me Edward Furlong's John Connor in T2 is one of the most iconic characters in movie history.
@Mike Cranston Can I join. Terminator 2 is my favorite movie of all time. I am a 90's kid. Its it's the first movie I saw in theaters. T2 was my childhood.
Perhaps the energy displacement that is transmitted when a Terminator travels through time is the same type of energy displacement that a rev9 gives off when it travels through time. Perhaps that energy displacements are the same that's why a Terminator built by Skynet would be capable of determining the location of the energy source.
1. How I understood (I could be wrong) the T-800 can sense ripples in the time stream...since the rev-9 wasn't in the mass wave he wouldn't know about it until after he arrived..hence Sarah being late 2. I took it as Dani talking about humanity in general not just grace...but I could be wrong. Keep up the awesome work
Yeah Cody, wishful thinking but judging the way things are going there ain't going to be sequels. Killing John Conner off makes the plot of the first 2 films redundant. Essentially it seems all they have done is rehash the best bits of T1 & T2. Also it's just telling the same story but replacing the Male saviour with a female saviour. If you want to check out the real arguments against this movie I suggest you head over to The Dave Cullen Show & Mr H Reviews (who even spent time on the set) as they go in depth as to why Cameron has trashed this franchise.
So John dying makes him saving humanity in 2 unless that doesn't make sense especially considering Sarah has all ways been the real main character anyway
The problem I have with Terminator Salvation is that John Connor didn't seem like a leader of the resistance. He seemed like one of the commanders in the resistance Army. But he did not seem like the leader of the resistance because there were other commanders on top of him.
You're right about John Connor being botched multiple times and it was time to move on from his ass. But it was still a risky move to have him killed off so quickly so shortly after T2 like they did..... Why piss off half the fanbase? Don't they want this to succeed and make more sequels and money? There had to be a better way to move on from John Connor.
So if a Terminator could raise a family then why did he have to die in Terminator 2? John Connor was crying over and over again because he did not want to kill the Terminator and if the Turner survive he could have protected John Connor and then the father figure that John need it. Now all of that is really for nothing. This movie has ruined the whole franchise.
Nice review, Cody! I agree with you about your fate idea. This film definitely takes a familiar, yet interesting approach to the story and provides a nice progression from the earlier films in the franchise.
Your thoughts on this movie and the choices they made are pretty similar to mine - I really enjoyed Dark Fate. Sure it had some negatives (Rev-9's jumping around, some of the CGI, the drapery business etc.) but they were niggles and didn't affect my overall enjoyment of the film. Ultimately it will come down to whether individuals are annoyed by the John Connor death - personally I thought it was a bold choice and it doesn't change my enjoyment of T2, which I watched again last night. In a film series with time travel and deadly machines, it was refreshing to see one of the Terminators complete the mission set by Skynet - even if it was too late to make the intended difference. It may have bombed and some people may not like it, but that won't change the facts for me that it has been made and I really liked it.
This is honestly the best spoiler review I’ve seen of this movie. You’re absolutely right about about a lot of points. I think people are going into this movie already having the idea of not liking it but I really enjoyed it and at this point I’m OK with them shaking up the series with something different, we’ve seen the John Connor story played out so many times. Also I’m someone who hates the whole force narrative of strong women without earning that title but I really didn’t feel that in this. Mackenzie Davis genuinely came across as strong and a badass.
Michael I completely do not follow your statement? How was this following the coattails any more than ANY sequel in a franchise does? Not sure what you are referring to. I mean Salvaation kind of does the films different and it was a flop.
Michael Anderson by that ignorant logic all the World War Two soldiers were discrediting all the World War One soldiers. Time passes. What an ignorant position to hold that the same person always needs to be the savior of humanity. John Connor and Sarah saved humanity they did their part. Their place as heroes is solidified. They stopped skynet they stopped judgement day Saying anything else is false. I truly don’t think you saw this film either that or you didn’t comprehend it because what you are saying isn’t right.
Michael Anderson what freaking real war was I supposed to reference that wouldn’t offend your fragile ego come on.i lives with a ww2 bet for 32 years I assure you he’d have no problem with my comment.
Michael Anderson asshat just stating some stupidity on the net doesn’t make it so. Just go have fun trashing shit I’d rather enjoy stuff but if being miserable gets your sad ass off have fun being a little bitch.
Why couldn’t John have just went on living his life off screen though? What purpose did killing John serve besides trying to shoehorn in a new savior (who, let’s be honest, people will forget her name in a couple weeks or months) by destroying the old one? You could have still had John alive in the timeline regardless of new girl being the savior cause Legion had nothing to do with him.
I love seeing people try to find every reason to hate it. The tired argument of "wah stop inserting female characters into my media" is getting old. Terminator has ALWAYS had a STRONG female lead in Linda Hamilton. She went from "Final Girl" to Badass throughout her story as Sarah Connor. How can you even like this movie series if you don't like strong female leads? Sarah Connor? Catherine Bruster? The TX even to a degree? What about Blair in Salvation? See the thing people keep going on about has always been there. They're just mad to see a Female get cyber enhancements and beat the dog shit out of a male terminator because it upsets the fedora balance of the neckbeardverse.
Yes, the Terminator franchise has always had strong women, but the previous films all had at least one human male as a protagonist as well. In Dark Fate, John Connor is killed at the outset, and from that point forward there are no genuinely male heroes in the film. I don't count the T-800 as a male, since it's a machine. Also, while Linda Hamilton's portrayal of Sarah Connor has always been excellent, the actress who played Dani was nowhere near as convincing in her performance, lacking both in physicality and screen presence.
I can see why people are upset about John, that name practically goes hand in hand with the franchise and they had the balls to ice him in the first few minutes. Let’s be honest Terminator from the beginning has always been a bit of a paradox where John and Skynet are doomed to battle each other over and over. But one of the themes I see come up in these films is the relationship between man and machine so killing John fits for me, tho I will say it was arguably unnecessary. Having Dani as the new man and Legion as the new machine makes sense because it keeps the core theme, continues the cycle and loosens the franchise up to explore new “fates”. My biggest complaint is about how they handled Sarah. Without getting too deep into it, Dani finally asks the question as to why she’s been targeted and Sarah’s response felt not only out of character but a bit forced, like she was set up to say that just to be proved wrong later. What made Sarah such a great character to me in the first 2 films was how she embodied maternal instinct, like the most badass version of it, and represented mankind’s tenacity to survive. But here it feels like what they did with Laurie Strode in Halloween 2018, where she’s still a survivor but driven by darker motivations because of her trauma. I guess I’m just upset to see good characters become pessimistic. Why can’t Hollywood give beloved characters a happy ending and let them keep it
@Rogue Wolf. Why can't Hollywood give beloved characters a happy ending. You mean like John Connor? They couldn't even wait till he was an adult and had a life. Kill him off as a little boy with a point blank shotgun shot to the chest. What a joke. T2 one of the best films ever made. Hasta La Vista John
strugen ikr, I kinda wish they let John and Sarah have somewhat of a normal life after T2 and then brought them in later as backup or something. It almost feels like Johns death was written for the sole purpose of explaining why she’s still hunting Terminators
I interpreted the ending as Dani resolving to change the future and prevent Legion. (You know, just like Sarah did before with Skynet.) That makes it a perfect ending to the whole mythos, implying a repeating cycle of apparent predestination that gets broken by free will. Humanity’s destruction is always hanging over us, and we must keep making the choice to stop it. Another great element of the movie was how Carl’s whole character arc combined pieces from all of Arnold’s previous iterations. He began as the cold and relentless killer, then became the protector, and had to reconcile that entire lifetime’s journey.
Cody, Carl was not using data he got from skynet. He was actually measuring incoming temporal waves or something like that from the current year. He knew something was going through time. He didn't necessarily know what or from when/where
I personally believe they could have kept the John Connor opening death scene but changed the storyline for the rest of the film. I believe John Connor should have died in the opening, and the rest of the movie should have been about Dani Ramos and Mackenzie working with Sarah Connor to travel back in time to change the timeline to prevent John Connor’s death or at least reverse it and revive him. At the end, they should have had adult Edward Furlong appear as a revived adult John Connor in a cameo to show that the fate was changed. The movie should have kept its working title of Terminator Phoenix. Phoenix would have fit with the “rebirth” of John Connor.
I can compare another flim that did this. Now, let me say that Terminator Dark Fate is a way better flim than this, but in Halloween 5, when Rachel gets killed off early after her being an amazing character in H4 was also just a middle finger to harcore Halloween 4 fans.
Ok well as someone who literally idolizes the first two films and watches them continuously I dont see it that way at all. You see it however you choose to.
The reason Skynet probably only sent one Terminator is because Skynet that one Terminator was efficient to complete the mission. The probability of one Terminator executing John Connor was probably really high and high enough for Skynet to have a high probability of success sending one Terminator to the Past.
I'm glad you enjoyed this film, Cody. It really is hard to talk about this movie without the spoilers. So, I'm just gonna respond to your facebook comment here. To a certain extent, I understand your point about John Conner. However, the fact that they destroyed Cyberdyne in T2 was only one mission of that film. The other mission was keeping John Conner alive. Yes, the victory for Cyberdyne is still in tact but the victory of John being saved is not. Listen, it's not so much that he died, it's how he died. John Conner, the character built up as the savior of the franchise since the first movie, dies for absolutely nothing. This feels like Alien 3 all over again. They pulled a Newt. Never forget Newt, my friend. They spent the previous movie having us care about this character's survival and what their future would be outside of this nightmare, only to turn around and kill them off before the opening credits. It's such a letdown. If you're going to kill a character like this, you have to justify it, and to kill him off only to turn around and recycle a ton of crap that we've already seen in this franchise is pretty insulting. If he had been in a good chunk of the film and then died for Dani, I would have been 100% ok with that. They could have had him struggling to find purpose in life after the events of T2. He's no longer the most important member of the human race, so he has no idea what to do with his life. You could have had him, along with Sarah, helping to protect Dani and then sacrificing himself for Dani. It would have been impactful having the previous savior of mankind die for the new savior of mankind. It not only gives this character who was built up from the start a heroic death, it not only has him passing the torch, but, when you think about it, it also makes him the savior once again. It would have been a simple and poetic death and I don't think many people would have had a problem with it. But, I'm sorry, what they did instead was a spit in the face to me and a, fo a lack of a better word, "Legion" of other fans. On top of that, there really is nothing in this film we haven't seen before. It's funny how James Cameron claims to hate every Terminator film after T2, and yet everything in this movie is recycled from all 5 previous entries. I would have liked something more original, in the vein of salvation. However, the plot is just a retread and just doesn't bring new things to the series. New characters are here but they are doing the same thing that the characters in the previous movies did. It's such a waste to me. It feels less like a progression of the storyline, and more like a hard standstill.
Code Man, you & Sean Chandler are THE best film critics on RUclips by a landslide! I loved this dual review even though I haven't yet seen the movie (I already heard about the big twist before watching this). I'm going to watch it this Friday as a double feature with Doctor Sleep. Even knowing all about the storyline in Dark Fate, your kick-ass, killer kool review still piqued my interest in the film! First of all, you both have way more fans than haters so don't allow someone like Jeremy Johns and his ultra-manic review get to you! I understand his point about John Conner but he can't convey his message without shrieking like a banshee who just smoked a shitload of crack! In the horror genre alone, we have lost favorite characters who survived the previous film in the opening scene of a sequel (Laurie in Halloween: Resurrection, Alice in Friday The 13th: Part 2, and Kristen, Kincaid & Joey in A Nightmare On Elm Street: Dream Master to name a few). I kind of figured that bringing Edward Furlong back as John would be in cameo mode only since the trailers and the film's buzz omitted his supposedly comeback role completely! The recasts (Nick Stahl, Christian Bale & Jason Clarke) didn't help matters either, plus Furlong has seen better days: peaking as a younger actor post-T2 in films like American History X & Little Odessa. He's not an A-List actor or bonafide younger leading man anymore (and I'm not hating on him whatsoever; I actually wish his transition from child/teen roles to adult characters wouldn't have been waylaid by his real-life traumas). The John Conner roster of recasts are problematic enough, and bringing back Furlong as one of this film's stars would have been a major mistake (much like Halloween Kills is desperately attempting to recapture its heyday with a cast of has-beens, nobodies, generic newbies and elderly performers who have all seen better days). I can totally see Dark Fate working as the 3rd entry in a Terminator trilogy alongside the original and T2 without John's once-mighty presence! We all lose characters whom we love in both film & television. Take the hit and go along for the ride with or without him! It's the end of his world, not ours! Fuck the naysayers! ***extends middle finger*** (Same comment posted on Sean's channel).
"Legion"? How original. That name was used for AI before (an AI protagonist in Command and Conquer 3 Kane's Wrath and a geth from Mass Effect 2 and 3).
Joseph V. I’m with you in the original timeline he is not his father another unknown is and when Reese is sent back he then takes that persons place in the timeline what is referred to as predestination paradox John Conner was going to be conceived with or without Kyle Reese to set the events of T1 in motion.
Great video! I give you all the credit in the world for being able to make your points without needing two cuts in the middle of every sentence. One question about the movie (spoiler obviously): When they were on the helicopter, they told Dani she was the future leader (not her child). But when they did the flashforward (flashback?) to when she met Grace, and Dani was much younger. Shouldn't Dani have been older when she met Grace, not younger?
The most compelling aspect of this film is that, like what T3 (which was retconned) said about Judgment Day being inevitable, apparently, the "Savior" is inevitable as well AND... apparently Sarah has to mold that savior. The major issue is that this movie did! not! at! all! express any of this in a good way. It mostly served as a rehash of T1 and nothing about T2 other than liquid metal. That film expanded on T1 with a whole separate subplot involving destroying Skynet. All they did in this film was run like the first film but without any of the heart suspense and character development...
Carl was sent after t-1000. He caught sarah and john offguard and acomplished his mission and eventually became carl to give himself a purpose. All the other terminators who came after carl were killed by sarah as soon as they appeared
Didn’t realize how attached I was to T2 until I saw young John murdered in the opening title like a hoe. I verbally shouted no at the screen and left the theater, lol. Gonna try to finish it next time.
I feel the writers were trying to say that being the mother of the savior isnt good enough by Sarah Connors cynical attitude of " your not important, just your womb" Since when is motherhood a bad thing.
I think if I could had fixed this film? I would had put John Conner had some kind of emotional attachment with Dani. (Perhaps his Daughter.) At the end instead of "Carl", John sacrificed himself to protect Dani in a very heroic ending. I think if they went in this approach? People would had been more open to this new movie and not been so pissed off within the first 5 mins. It was a very stupid move. People got so pissed off. They may would even given it a chance if killing off John happened had at the end of film. Oh as for "Carl" Jeremy Jahns did a very hilarious take of this. I found it funny anyways.. lol ruclips.net/video/mVdm5BM1nI0/видео.html It was true in a sense of what he was making fun of. But with T2, It was stated as you saying that "Uncle Bob" would had been the same way as Carl. If he had lived longer. "Uncle Bob" was reprogrammed tho. There is that argument yeah. But who knows. Carl reprogrammed himself? lol
The scene where they have Mackenzie Davis firing a DP-12 was dumb. That gun was way too big for her frame, plus no one bothered to tell her that you're supposed to unfold the sights (see also Linda Hamilton, like most actors, not unfolding the foregrip on the Serbu Super Shorty).
Just saw it last night and I think your point about how would the T-800 know the new “Legion” timeline coordinates is a great one. Maybe (in this universe) time travel itself leaves those ripple effects as Arnold started to explain. So perhaps he could sense/interpret those ripples in some way. The T-800 must become part of the resistance in that Legion timeline, given that they had the coordinates of his compound outside Laredo, given that he was prepared for civilization’s eventual collapse into barbarism, then he would have survived and might be a major player in the resistance.
All thoughts on everything aside, what exactly made the "De aging" process look rough on Arnie, compared to Linda? You must have been seeing something that I couldn't, cause I re watched it numerous times and couldn't figure out what differentiated the two...? 🤷♀️
I enjoyed it though it did have issues. Didn’t mind a new direction with killing off JC in that awesome de-aged scene. T-1000 still can’t be topped though.
Mike Cranston This movie flopping has done that already 😄. They did all they can with John Connor including, ridiculously, making him a Terminator. The actress playing the replacement savior was totally unconvincing though. That “stand and fight” scene had me rolling. Liked Grace and Sarah though.
I think the scene with Dani fighting off the Rev 9 before using the power core did make a bit of sense, if a bit overdone. If she'd just let it get close without doing anything to distract it, it probably would have been able to resist just like it did even with all the distraction. At least that all got them to where Arnie could wake up and easily help.
I watched a spoiler video from a RUclips channel that I like name Jeremy Jahn and he wasn't happy with the John Connor death and I'm mixed about it. While I understand why they did it because of shock value and they want to go into a different direction but on the other hand it will piss some of the fans off by how they just shoved him to the waste side so I can understand their frustration. For me I don't think I needed another movie in the series because it was dead after T2 and I get that it's Hollywood and they will do whatever they want but still.
I’m glad you liked it but I’m completely on the opposite end of your review and I agree with you a lot lol. I felt if they’re going to go in this direction they should have made legion way into the future after John and Sarah have passed on and brought something new. This is basically just a remake of the original with female Kyle to protect the new mother of the future. It wasn’t anything new to me. I think it would have worked better if they got Edward furlong, Linda Hamilton, Arnold, and Robert back and all them team up to protect the new leader of the resistance against legion and have legion be way more advanced than skynet was, bring in new weapons and terminators that are even more advanced than the T800 and T1000 combined. That would have made a lot of money and been more respectful to all the fans. It’s just like you say in hellraiser 2 when the doctor walks in and wipes the floor with pinhead. You just don’t do that lol
Great review! I agree with about the fist 10 mins. In facf our thoughts are very similar in my review. I think Sarah found Dani and Grace because Arnold said it was the chronal displacement. It made time waves even before the event. I think that's the way Arnold tried to describe it.
I thought the EMP was a good idea to take the Terminator out. That or anything electromagnetic. Obviously this Terminator does not die on explosions. Having some sort of magnet or electromagnetic pulse would end up frying its electronic systems.
I think with Dani saying that to Sarah at the end kind of does make sense. I was confused at first though. But I think she means by be "ready" is that she can mobe quicker and get one step ahead of the enemy so hopefully there will be no need to send Grace back. Maybe, Idk. Thats the way I look at it anyway.
In T1 Skynet only had the opportunity to send 1 Terminator back through time- the T-101 and the Resistance... just 1 volunteer in Kyle Reese... before they blew up the time displacement equipment... which Reese tells Silberman during his interrogation... "The terminator had already gone through, they sent me to intercept and then they blew the whole thing...." In T2, maybe Skynet could of sent another Terminator outside of the T-1000... but maybe they felt they didn't need to... as the T-1000 was that much more advanced.... But now in Dark Fate... I guess they did send more than just the T-1000 back right? ...as in another T-101 as a backup.... but... then why create a terminator, Rev9, that is essentially two in one when they suddenly have the ability to send multiple terminators back....???
I don't know. As someone who thought Dark Fate was decent I still think it could have at least balanced out John's Death with some kind of meaning or retribution. I mean just me but I personally would have LOVED it if they said Grace was John's Daughter. That would have made me like her even more.
In T2 they reset Arnolds CPU because it was on read only. That's why he started learning more and acting a bit more human. So why is he acting like that here in this movie? And how would he have information on other terminators sent back in time, that's information he shouldn't have !! Oh!!! skynet making mistakes 😏
At end of the day T3 and T6 are the same movie; both render stopping apocalypse in T2 pointless, John as a savior/character is pointless, new savior introduced (Kate is co-savior that kicks John’s ass back into shape), same T800 that kills John helps the crew at the end of the movie. They are only differentiated by Hamilton being back and a new spin on the antagonist terminator.
I think what Dani meant is that she would prevent legion from ever becoming IE John and Sarah preventing Skynet from being created. My biggest plot hole or question I have is the ending sets up that Sarah Connor goes on and continues to train Dani and takes on a mother type role. If this is the case it’s makes no sense that Dani of the future at no point tells Grace about Sarah if Grace and Dani are also adopted family. In short Grace should know who Sarah is through future Dani if Sarah trained that Dani.
I know a lot of people hated how they killed John Conner. I had no problem with it because I found Edward Furlong annoying in T2 so I didn’t mind seeing him get blown away lol
I was entertained by your 1st question on Sean's channel and I was obliged to answer again once I seen it asked again. Let me first say I'm critical of movies and video game stories. It needs to make logical sense. I dont remember Carl's exact words because it made sense to me at the time of 1st watch (I've seen it 2xs) but these terminators popping up are not coming from skynet data.. they are events that can be quantized by the anomaly itself.. whatever that may entail be it the disturbance in the the laws of physics or whatever the case may be.. he can quantify it. Legion is not skynet but there is no reason for me to believe their technology is vastly different.. especially being a computer that takes the most logical evolution from one point to another which is a straight line.. and especially looking at the basic structure and design of what a terminator looks like in both timelines.. and even if they were very different technology as far as coding goes.. the laws of physics in our world are still the same.. that rip in time is still quantifiable for arnold. The question for me is did he also give her Grace's coordinates? it's on a freeway.. sara hunts terminators.. she knows where grace went and where rev 9 went and there has been some time since they both landed to her arrival. Grace gives her more time to get to mexico if shes not already there. I'm gonna assume per T 2 shes very familiar with Mexico. She followed the carnage.. granted that was fast but if shes camping on the freeway listening to 911 calls she can run up on them quickly. They had already fucked shit up a good 10.. 15 mins before she shows up from her work to the freeway.. if shes been doing this for years and shes badass at hunting terminators off the grid I'll give it a pass. Somebody has to be calling 911 or whatever they call in mexico for policia.. OR.. follow the smoke and fire..BUUT.. as arnold says.. she didnt really keep her phone in the potato bag.. & she wasnt on the phone cupcaking with Joe Schmoe.. my guess is she was looking for radio chatter
Um...🙋🏼♂️If sky net sent multiple terminators, shouldn’t the resistance have sent multiple counterparts? They knew the same date for the first two terminators, so why not the rest?
I hated the direction this movie went. Sarah went from hero of the world, that taught John everything he knew, to a vessel that carried John 9 months.. Sarah: “they want you for your womb” 🙄
I feel like the best explanation for multiple Terminators would be several were sent in 1991, but the existence of any T800 keeps Skynet in play. The T800s processor existing in 1991 means the future aka Judgment Day is still alive. The processor keeps the loop open. If ONE of the T800s real identity is discovered by anyone other than Sarah, John, Myles Dyson's wife or son, and the T800 gets incapacitated, the future is still on.
I feel like people nowadays really forget what made John Conner so special, to begin with. It wasn't that he grew up to be a powerful leader, it was that he was a kid with a good heart. Carl killing John allows for a different narrative than that of Uncle Bob from T2, but while allowing the story to retain similar themes and ideas that made T2 so good.
I think arnolds secondary purpose should have been, if it failed to allow judgement day to happen, to restart skynet. Still, send sarah connor coordinates but have it to where its all a trap. The only person who comes back in time is grace, and it will turn out that arnold created the new terminator, the rev 9, with the help of the newly revamped skynet.
I enjoyed it , the action scenes were good.mackenzie davies was terrific.not a patch on the first two of course but not the disaster like salvation and genysis. 3/5
I felt the same about the final showdown between Dani and the Rev 9. I'm like okay, he had her in a chokehold. You're telling me he couldn't just crush her throat in 2 seconds? A small issue, but definitely one that I also noticed.
I loved the movie and had a great time going back to the franchise, with that said I do feel like this movie didn't do T2 justice as a sequel, and the over all theme of Terminator is your future isn't set, fate is what you make it, but this movie sets up that John wasn't important to the rise of the machines, AI still becomes aware. No matter what, it's a dark fate that you can't change. Otherwise everything else was cool.
I really hate everyone's negative reviews of this movie, cuz most of the reviewers seem like they can't get off John Connor's dick and in turn a lot of people are just listening to them without watching the movie and forming their own opinions. You're right, they've done so much with John Connor that it'd be pointless rehashing his plotline again. And if they brought him back I guarantee all these reviewers who are shitting on this movie would shit on the movie for relying on nostalgia too much. JC's death was fucked up, but it's not as bad as everyone's making it seem imo.
I don't have a problem with Sarah Connor showing up because she's received text messages but how did she know that they were on the bridge because when they appeared they weren't appearing on the bridge. There must be some back story or some other side story that we didn't see that when she got the coordinates she went to the location and she tracked the rev9 or Grace somehow and then ended up catching up with them on the bridge.
You make a lot of valid points and it's good that you back them with reason instead of just bashing the movie. I didn't hate the movie but it was underwhelming in some respects. Why does arnie even exist if skynet was wiped out? Wouldn't he disappear? His existence makes no sense in the film unless I missed something. I liked the idea of Grace and how she's enhanced but she crashes way too hard. And I did NOT like Gabriel Luna as the enemy. He's not nearly as menacing or intimidating as the villain needs to be. And the CGI is questionable in a lot of parts. DEAR HOLLYWOOD. STOP THINKING IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO USE SHIT TONS OF CGI. It's necessary someone's yes, but practical effects on T2 still look better. The terminators in future war in T2 look way better than those ones on the beach in dark fate. Just sayin...
I totally agree John has always been nothing but motivation what’s the best way to set up a really powerful ark for his mother rip that motivation away from her in an instant
Im still pissed that they did john connor dirty like that its like killing off desmond miles on some bullshit only to be replaced by some random as called layla hassan
@@CodyLeachYT still a great movie, we agree that salvation was a good film as well, we don't know when your next fan video is due but my husband wanted to know if you received his letter and gifts
This movie was absolutely needed to clean up the trash that came before it. There is a line that Sarah Connor says in T2 at the end when the battle is over when they toss the chip and arm into the molten pit, she says "it's over." Which means that THEIR part in armageddon was over. John had Fulfilled his destiny. Now a new threat looms. Also John Connor as a lead character has failed each time he was the focal point in a film, besides T2. This movie actually made Terminator interesting again.
Listen to 9:45 and explain to me How Skynet is no more and Judgement day never happened if John never grew up to send Kyle back to create himself? The events of T2 never happened because John didnt exist. So, not only is Skynet around, they won.
Killing John so abruptly and unsurmoniously in the first couple of minutes is an unforgivable act. Yes they still stopped judgement day but then this new threat arises so it still makes the victory in T2 feel empty.
That was my point, they really stopped nothing, which makes killing John feel even worse.
You know a movie is bad when you're lead actress and icon Linda Hamilton in an interview said the movie was just ok upon watching it for the first time.
It pisses me off that it never justified killing John Conner
Terminator Dark Fate is rubbish. John Connor is killed & all males are killed & replaced by 3 women. Woke & Identity politics strong instead of sticking to legacy of T2 & style of filmmaking fans loved. James Cameron, or a similar great Director (Eg with T2 film crew) please redo Terminator 3 without the politics and make Edward Furlong a lead role (Include Arnie & Lynda also) and please keep they style like T2 > Atmosperic, Robots with gravitas, the T2 theme music playing throughout. Oh what we hope for 🙏👍
They pulled an Alien 3
I bought the ticket, got me a coke and some popcorn, sat down after I undressed my leather jacket, had a big smile on my face after the first shots of Linda Hamilton’s mental Hospital tapes, was pleasently surprised how good the De-aging process had become after all and Boom! Three shots in my heart and I watched another favorite Franchise die right in front of my eyes.
I stood up, visibly shaken, got my jacket, excused myself from my sitting neighbor and left the theatre.
I was going to, but my parents were their.
I left too. I love salvation & T1 & T2 & T3 to a degree, so killing John killed the franchise. It would be smarter to continue of salvation. Just my opinion.
I feel you brother. Fuck this movie! (From the bottom of my heart)
First of all I respect your opinion, I don't want to crap on anyone's opinion that did enjoy the movie. Dark Fate feels like an "What if" story, it doesn't feel canon imo. Us as fans can choose what's canon, I feel. In my mind, T1 - Genisys is canon for me. (I know they're not supposed to be). How I look at it is this:
• T2 did change the timeline
• T3 Judgement Day caused consequence
(T-800 did tell John he would kill him, which happened in Genisys)
• T4 was the beginning of the future war
• T5, with postponing Judgement it altered the timeline, the result is that John lost, he gets turned into a Terminator. Sarah timeline also gets changed. I know there's plot holes, but it works for me. I don't need a reset with killing off teenager John and having someone new take over that role with a similar story. The movie was well directed, it had some good characters but I just didn't care for the story.
Didn’t Arnie say he could detect “ripples” through the time line. I believe this is the case regardless of whether they originated from Skynet or Legion.
I think you're right. I'm gonna have to rewatch to confirm, but I feel like there was a conversation in which Terminators were revealed to have some kind of temporal awareness, that told him when these other terminators were going to come through.
It's still bullshit. Because when "sarah" showed up on the bridge, the rev 9 hadn't just come through. He had been around for a while and it made no sense whatsoever for her to know they were all on that bridge in that exactmoment. That's what we call shitty, inept, incompetent writing. Like the whole goddamn rest of this sorry ass excuse for a movie. Fuck this movie! And fuck Tim Miller!
What bogles my mind is the thought process that runs through these screen writers minds?
"Hey what the people need is a retcon of Terminator because the sequels were trash."
"Yeah I agree"
"Alright for the first five minutes of the film we should kill John Connor".
" So what's the point of Retconning it in the first place?"
"Because the savior of humanity needs to be a woman."
😂😂
If that's how you see it...
we get it, you hate women, YAAWWWWNNN.
Cody doesnt care and neither do Terminator fans who aren't part of the incel demographic.
@@meltyboys946 I really hope this is a sarcastic comment.
Battle Rifle I’m dead serious. Cry about hating women somewhere else where people will give a damn lmao.
@@meltyboys946 I'm not hating on women. I'm hating on stupid screenwriters who can't write good scripts.
Don't you have some feminist parade to attend or something?
So by this logic... can you give Alien 3 a pass now for the deaths of Hicks and Newt please?
Why are we comparing one move to the next. And I've thought about it, I completely understand how someone could make that argument but only IF THIS MOVIE CAME OUT RIGHT AFTER T2. ITS BEEN LIKE 20 years and we have so many shitty John Conner sequels that it was time to do something different. And this doesn't discredit what happened in T2 because it was about ending Judgment day, which they did. That was the end of Johns storyline.
@@sonsolar I am comparing them because it is a similar element of having a main character killed of at the beginning in the sequel. People hate Alien 3 for it, and Cody put it last on his list for this reason alone, and constantly brings it up as a negative , but here its suddenly okay? I have listened to his reasoning, but still if its okay here it shouldnt be such a big issue for Alien 3.
@Nathaniel Gates The deaths May be disrispectful to some people but they are in no way forgotten in the movie. Ripley having to deal with Newts death and asking for the autopsy, because of her fear of the Alien threat is no easy choice for her and is not an easy scene. Also they have a funeral scene for them, which is contrasted with the birth of the new Alien, plus added with Dillons speech is a very effective sequence.
I highly doubt they written the deaths in the movie just to piss of the fans (and even though you say Johns death had a reason fans are pissed anyway 😂) Obviously Alien 3 is a story of studio meddling for the ages but still Newt would have had to been recast definetly since the actress would have aged by then, so that would have looked quite weird, looking different after cryosleeping.
I believe David Fincher made the best he could out of a bad situation. He made the bleakest, Darkest entry in the series which it should be since this has started off as a horror franchise yet people are always pissed we dont get the happy family ending.
Ripley having the strength to overcome the deaths, on a hostile planet , with no weapons, no one to trust and a New type of Xeno to face, and in the end
choosing to sacrifice herself to save humanity from this creature and the greed of humans which would surely bring extinction on Earth
Now that is a powerful character with a powerful closing arc to HER story.
Ressurection is the abomination, that has no reason to exist only to shit all over the end of a PERFECT TRILOGY.
@@Inuprince You're still incorrect. They aren't the same thing. It's an issue in Alien 3 because it legitimately was a waste. They died off screen do to a malfunction of some sort so emotionally it does feel as if they were disrespectful to thoes characters. It legitimately was a senseless death, you also wanted to see what happened in the story after they escaped. It Dark Fate, John is killed by a Terminator, which was a possibility from the very first film. His life was always in danger (by movie rules it was unlikely that he would die) but him possiby getting killed at some point was literally tied to the fabric of the stories we were watching unfold.
If this movie had came out two years after T2 they could have killed him and went in this direction, simply because it would have completed Sarah's arc and to a certain extent ,destiny /fate. If you think about it, at the begging of the Terminaotr she's going to raise the leader of the resistance,she stops the need for there to be a resistance in her time line but the future still unfolds in a similar way but at the end of Dark Fate she's grooming/rasing the leader of the resistance.
@Michael Anderson I'm not wrong. It's not nearly the same as how they did Newt and Hicks, which is what we are talking about in this specific thread. The franchise is about killer cyborgs, John was killed on screen by a killer cyborg. Newt was killed by a blown fuse off screen.
I respect your opinion but I can't get passed John Connors death. Even if this wasn't skynet he would have still been a asset to the new resistance. This pisses all over T2.
Para Dox WELL PUT!!!!!
This doesn’t piss all over t2 You can think that though
Agree with some of his reviews but his reasons for defending this disaster is way off you don't touch a classic like T2
i think his point and mine as well is it didn't.
@@glyn420 😂😂😂 of course it did but its bombed at the office anyway so there will be no sequels to do anymore damage
I disagree and I have yet to see the foreign box office, have you? The last 2 bombed domestically as well but were carried by foreign box office. they may still make another.
Also i would love to know how, just stating something on line doesn't make it a fact. They stopped sky net the stopped the original judgement day they were successful he was a hero they did save countless lives. Even if they only delayed a robot machine takeover it was not their actions but humanities that brought the second one. they succeeded in their mission. All the lives between the original judgement day and the second nowe are lived because of their actions. i don't get how some can not grap this. What did you want them to do? They couldn't recast people would be pissed they couldn't have fat sweaty bloated Ed Furlong play the whole film. The film makers weren't the ones that shit on John Connors legacy it was Furlong by becoming a fuck up and destroying his hollywood career.
@@glyn420 variety as reported this morning that it's on course to make 180-200m globally
it cost to make 185-200m plus 80-100m for marketing
so to break even it needs to make 450m which it won't come close to making so no sequel
By killing off John Connor, it pretty much makes the first two movies pointless. Gonna disagree with you on this one. Didn't like it at all.
Agreed
I actually thought the opening scene of John being killed was a dream Sarah was having.. and was waiting for her to wake up like ok already stop playing with us
Is the killing of John Conner in the same vein of killing Hicks and Newt in Alien 3? Since James Cameron decried that decision for so many years
Pretty much. And apparently killing John was James Cameron's idea, so yeah...
No it's not the same. The studio decided to Kill Hicks and Newt due to budget. In that movie it served absolutely no purpose. John's death in Dark Fate help progress the story in a new direction after the other sequels ran the character through the mud.
@@coreyhernandez231 Ah, so arbitrarilly killing a kid in the first 5 minutes was progress eh? Is your idea of renovating a house is changing the wall paper too?
Dark Fate gender swapped... that is it... and they did so in a pretty shitty fashion by gunning down John as a kid. Not only that, but it shits all over T1 and T2, making those classics not matter.
There is no difference, because John's death was just as pointless. Dark Fate didn't progress, they just changed the names and went in the same ole same ole.
@@jessemoore7081 I expanded and progressed the story for Sarah Connor's character. Since Terminator 1 and 2 it's been about her protecting John, this movie tapped into the reality of her failing to save him and what that meant for her as a mother and a human being. The opening was brilliant as the tone was now set as a dark and somber film and not like the cartoonish sequels before.
If you hated the movie solely because John was killed and that shitted over your nostalgia then idk what to say.
@@coreyhernandez231 Funny you mention nostalgia considering while Dark Fate was "progressing" as you say, they still managed to hang on to Sarah Connor and a T-800... certainly couldn't be due to nostalgia at all, nah. I also wouldn't call gender swaps, and name changes "progress". Dark Fate is still old formula with some new window dressing.
Killing John Connor destroyed any chance this movie had and I am glad this bombed at the box office!
I'm definitely glad this movie bombed at the box office which means there will be no more bullshit sequels. James Cameron and Tim Miller are definitely on something. This was just as bad as Hicks and Newt dying in Alien 3. That's a very legit comparison.
@@Terminatorfan-2016 Yup
$120 million at the box office... DARK FATE SUCKS! 🤬🖕🏻#WokeAndBroke
Why did Legion send one?
Dani better die in the first five minutes of Dark Fate 2
Cody's opinion about the movie's logical consistency is wrong for this one.
why did Skynet send one? Same reason. AI Took over in the future because HUMANKIND didnt learn and the same "Dark Fate" happens regardless until they stop the whole AI again. I mean it leaves plot holes but this series always had plot holes... I think most of the haters are just looking for things to hate..
They didn't even try to destroy or postpone Legion in this film. I presume any future sequels will be Terminator Salvation like with Sarah and Dani preparing for the inevitable.
@Melty Boys calling people haters because they don't like something you like. How original
@@Strugen. Aww I didn't even notice they said hater. How many Melty Boys are there?
John Connor is Skynet’s ultimate villain so it’s really poetic to me that the last line of the final remains of Skynet says “For John”. That almost made me tear up. Sarah’s reaction said it all. She was saying goodbye to Skynet for good.
Go Kings
It brought a tear to my eye seeing Carl say "For John" before being destroyed as he was pretty much the last of his kind.
Wish I Could Agree With You Cody. But, In My Opinion. When Young John Connor Was Shot In The Heart. So Was Every *True* Terminator Fan! And The Franchise Itself. May Be Living On Barrowed Time As Well. Time Will Tell :(
You don't just kill fuckin john Connor! Are you kidding me!! What a joke.
It didn’t fail you guys just don’t like seeing movies about strong female characters even though terminator has always been about strong female characters
Nothing at all wrong with strong female characters in movies. My mom is a strong female character. haha! But they shouldn't have to kill a 10 year old iconic male character. Just to have one.That sucks.
@@meltyboys946 I have no problem with strong female characters! I love Sarah Connor in T2, but are we supposed to believe a five foot tall 100 pound female is the new leader of the resistance? If it were a 5 foot 100 pound male I'd be equally thinking WTF.
I didnt mind Grace but come on. John Connor's resistance was far less technically advanced then Dani's resistance but yet John was able to capture a T-800 then reprogram it to protect himself. But Dani just sends back a human Hybrid junkie that cant walk or stay conscious after one fight.
I just want to say that my favorite movie of all time is Terminator 2. Its the first movie I ever watched in theaters.
I am a 90's kid and I related to Edward Furlong's John Connor character so much growing up.
He was the heart and soul of that movie.
As for Dark fate, to just kill that character that I and many other people loved out of nowhere in the beginning for really no reason was a disservice to die hard T2 fans.
If Skynet was defeated how did Skynet send back multiple Terminators back in time kill John it wouldn't exist.
Killing John Connor was a huge fucking mistake, ruins T2 ending, nowadays in films you got to have female protagonists saving mankind because men are all incompetent imbeciles apparently.
I'm all for strong female roles but you had 3 in this film when it may been better just having Sarah who's mortal, it would've added more drama knowing she can be killed & made protecting Dani more intense.
As for the young girl who plays Dani the future leader of humanity i thought she was a awful actress & didn't buy her as future leader, I'd included John teaming up with Sarah in protecting the new protagonist Daniella "Dani" Ramos, John knows he helped stopped Judgement Day but still unsure about mankinds fate, maybe had sleeper cell Terminators activated at a certain time to take John out as a contingency plan that Skynet did as a final defiant act would've worked better, been cool having Arnie battling several versions of himself.
Good action scenes though & Linda Hamilton was bad ass as Sarah but killing John & that Carl nonsense about raising a family bloody daft & retcons Kyle Reeces speech to Sarah in the original movie about not feeling pity, remorse or fear, "I do drapes"....ffs.
Oh & why didn't anyone give chase when John was killed? were the cops on a donut break, man walks on beach with shotgun & nobody reports it.
The part about Skynet sending another T-800 to kill John actually makes sense. Skynet sent ONE terminator to kill Sarah... it failed. So if Skynet is a smart AI, then it would've sent more than just one.
I like to think that Skynet did send T-1000 AND the T-800 because it had learned that John sent a reprogrammed T-800 of his own to protect his past self. I believe that (to keep the plot as logical as possible) the T-800 was supposed to stay idle in the background and only engage if T-1000 failed, which it did. And since every T-800 look like Arnold, it would've have been easier for it to get close to John and catch him off guard because of his connection to the guardian terminator in T2. That's my opinion anyways
After all the terminator movies following the first two, I still find that the first 2 are the only ones that I want to rewatch does anyone else feel the same?
Time travel: He said WHENEVER anyone is sent through time it creates a Rift.He didn't have the coordinates because of skynet but by the nature of the rift that time travel causes. That said, theoretically the coordinates would have been for where either Grace or the Rev 9 came back, not the bridge....so that still doesn't explain how she got there. And the rules you stated aren't correct, if they ended Judgement day, then there was never a resistance which means there was never a need for John to send Kyle back. Soooooo, yeah.
this was what i was going to say.
This is the only time that I completely disagree with you. This movie was a giant middle finger to every person who liked this franchise.
I dont see it that way but 🤷♂️
There won't be a sequel to this movie. The franchise has finally been Terminated
Only if
Doomguy Demon Killer collider.com/what-future-terminator-sequels-will-explore/
I’m sorry you personally didn’t like a movie but there will in fact be sequels and people will enjoy them even if you fucking don’t
It needs a reboot. Only because the timeline is so fucked up.
This film was a hot steaming pile of dog shit. It in no way honors the previous two film. An absolute insult with the direction they took Arnold's character. Watch terminator 1 again and pay attention to what Kyle Reese explains to Sarah "Listen. Understand. That Terminator is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it doesn't feel pity of remorse or fear...and it absolutely will not stop.Ever. Until you are dead."
They shit on the original idea. They also did everything all the previous film did. Nothing new. Just another cash grab
Agreed. It's pointless. Nothing original, they just rehashed ideas from all the films. Yes, they even used some of Genisys ideas. Very unoriginal.
@Marko Dabrowski Completely agree with you man. Terminator: Dark Fate insulted me as a Fan of The Terminator (1984) and Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991) Fan just like Genisys did it before.
The more time I process what I saw in Dark Fate, the more angry I am as a Terminator fan. This movie had a 200 million dollar budget.
This movie could have been great. You finally get Linda Hamilton back to play Sarah Connor, you have James Cameron being more involved with the project, Aronld is back. I thought Edward Furlong was going to be apart of this movie but that's for another time.
But you could not cook up a better story than this. It's one thing to have a bad terminator story (I've heard there was like 6 different writers) but is other thing to taint the greatness of the story of T1 and especially T2.
I guess I'm just saying that there was so much potential to make this flim not mediocre, or good, but amazing to satisfy hardcore Terminator fans who have been craving a true sequel to T2 since the early 90's.
Also Cody on I side note you and I agree on one thing. No matter how unpopular it is I feel you can make a Terminator film without John Connor. He wasn't in the first one and that was great. I just couldn't get behind the decision to kill him if they are going to continue the same story. Legion is still Skynet.
I feel like theres alot of powerful things wrapped up in the change of fate that many people are missing...but that's the beauty of movies. We all get something different.
@@CodyLeachYT True That
Respect your opinion but the film did a alien 3 and killed John Conner basically for no reason. Glad it’s bombing at the box office.
Not the same as Alien 3 at all
Just to put it perspective, where I am coming from.
What if in Star Wars: The Force Awakens the story was that Han Solo and Leia were killed in the first 10 minutes in the movie and were given no reason why and just went on with the new characters with a completely different story.
Its just a slap in the face to fans who grew up with these iconic characters for decades.
Yes, to me Edward Furlong's John Connor in T2 is one of the most iconic characters in movie history.
Mike what are you watching multiple comment sections waiting to chime in?
@Mike Cranston Can I join. Terminator 2 is my favorite movie of all time. I am a 90's kid.
Its it's the first movie I saw in theaters.
T2 was my childhood.
Perhaps the energy displacement that is transmitted when a Terminator travels through time is the same type of energy displacement that a rev9 gives off when it travels through time. Perhaps that energy displacements are the same that's why a Terminator built by Skynet would be capable of determining the location of the energy source.
1. How I understood (I could be wrong) the T-800 can sense ripples in the time stream...since the rev-9 wasn't in the mass wave he wouldn't know about it until after he arrived..hence Sarah being late
2. I took it as Dani talking about humanity in general not just grace...but I could be wrong.
Keep up the awesome work
That may be it like I said I may answer my question on repeat viewing.
Yeah Cody, wishful thinking but judging the way things are going there ain't going to be sequels. Killing John Conner off makes the plot of the first 2 films redundant. Essentially it seems all they have done is rehash the best bits of T1 & T2. Also it's just telling the same story but replacing the Male saviour with a female saviour. If you want to check out the real arguments against this movie I suggest you head over to The Dave Cullen Show & Mr H Reviews (who even spent time on the set) as they go in depth as to why Cameron has trashed this franchise.
Nailed it 100%
So John dying makes him saving humanity in 2 unless that doesn't make sense especially considering Sarah has all ways been the real main character anyway
@@boomstickcritique902 you should reword what you just wrote because it makes no sense
@@JohnDoe-fi9yh I know now why you why cry
@@boomstickcritique902 you're an idiot
The problem I have with Terminator Salvation is that John Connor didn't seem like a leader of the resistance. He seemed like one of the commanders in the resistance Army. But he did not seem like the leader of the resistance because there were other commanders on top of him.
You're right about John Connor being botched multiple times and it was time to move on from his ass. But it was still a risky move to have him killed off so quickly so shortly after T2 like they did..... Why piss off half the fanbase? Don't they want this to succeed and make more sequels and money? There had to be a better way to move on from John Connor.
So if a Terminator could raise a family then why did he have to die in Terminator 2? John Connor was crying over and over again because he did not want to kill the Terminator and if the Turner survive he could have protected John Connor and then the father figure that John need it. Now all of that is really for nothing. This movie has ruined the whole franchise.
Nice review, Cody! I agree with you about your fate idea. This film definitely takes a familiar, yet interesting approach to the story and provides a nice progression from the earlier films in the franchise.
Your thoughts on this movie and the choices they made are pretty similar to mine - I really enjoyed Dark Fate. Sure it had some negatives (Rev-9's jumping around, some of the CGI, the drapery business etc.) but they were niggles and didn't affect my overall enjoyment of the film. Ultimately it will come down to whether individuals are annoyed by the John Connor death - personally I thought it was a bold choice and it doesn't change my enjoyment of T2, which I watched again last night. In a film series with time travel and deadly machines, it was refreshing to see one of the Terminators complete the mission set by Skynet - even if it was too late to make the intended difference. It may have bombed and some people may not like it, but that won't change the facts for me that it has been made and I really liked it.
This is honestly the best spoiler review I’ve seen of this movie. You’re absolutely right about about a lot of points. I think people are going into this movie already having the idea of not liking it but I really enjoyed it and at this point I’m OK with them shaking up the series with something different, we’ve seen the John Connor story played out so many times.
Also I’m someone who hates the whole force narrative of strong women without earning that title but I really didn’t feel that in this. Mackenzie Davis genuinely came across as strong and a badass.
i agree
Michael I completely do not follow your statement? How was this following the coattails any more than ANY sequel in a franchise does? Not sure what you are referring to. I mean Salvaation kind of does the films different and it was a flop.
Michael Anderson by that ignorant logic all the World War Two soldiers were discrediting all the World War One soldiers. Time passes. What an ignorant position to hold that the same person always needs to be the savior of humanity. John Connor and Sarah saved humanity they did their part. Their place as heroes is solidified. They stopped skynet they stopped judgement day Saying anything else is false. I truly don’t think you saw this film either that or you didn’t comprehend it because what you are saying isn’t right.
Michael Anderson what freaking real war was I supposed to reference that wouldn’t offend your fragile ego come on.i lives with a ww2 bet for 32 years I assure you he’d have no problem with my comment.
Michael Anderson asshat just stating some stupidity on the net doesn’t make it so. Just go have fun trashing shit I’d rather enjoy stuff but if being miserable gets your sad ass off have fun being a little bitch.
Why couldn’t John have just went on living his life off screen though? What purpose did killing John serve besides trying to shoehorn in a new savior (who, let’s be honest, people will forget her name in a couple weeks or months) by destroying the old one? You could have still had John alive in the timeline regardless of new girl being the savior cause Legion had nothing to do with him.
VoiceOfMovies man I said the same thing
to find a way to force sarah connor in the movie to help advertise it more. duh.
I love seeing people try to find every reason to hate it. The tired argument of "wah stop inserting female characters into my media" is getting old. Terminator has ALWAYS had a STRONG female lead in Linda Hamilton. She went from "Final Girl" to Badass throughout her story as Sarah Connor.
How can you even like this movie series if you don't like strong female leads? Sarah Connor? Catherine Bruster? The TX even to a degree? What about Blair in Salvation? See the thing people keep going on about has always been there. They're just mad to see a Female get cyber enhancements and beat the dog shit out of a male terminator because it upsets the fedora balance of the neckbeardverse.
Its cause it's over done you white knight.
@@atlsooner85 WOMEN BAD
normal folks: "that was a cool movie"
Incels like yall: "FUCC WAMIN"
Yes, the Terminator franchise has always had strong women, but the previous films all had at least one human male as a protagonist as well. In Dark Fate, John Connor is killed at the outset, and from that point forward there are no genuinely male heroes in the film. I don't count the T-800 as a male, since it's a machine. Also, while Linda Hamilton's portrayal of Sarah Connor has always been excellent, the actress who played Dani was nowhere near as convincing in her performance, lacking both in physicality and screen presence.
I can see why people are upset about John, that name practically goes hand in hand with the franchise and they had the balls to ice him in the first few minutes. Let’s be honest Terminator from the beginning has always been a bit of a paradox where John and Skynet are doomed to battle each other over and over. But one of the themes I see come up in these films is the relationship between man and machine so killing John fits for me, tho I will say it was arguably unnecessary. Having Dani as the new man and Legion as the new machine makes sense because it keeps the core theme, continues the cycle and loosens the franchise up to explore new “fates”.
My biggest complaint is about how they handled Sarah. Without getting too deep into it, Dani finally asks the question as to why she’s been targeted and Sarah’s response felt not only out of character but a bit forced, like she was set up to say that just to be proved wrong later. What made Sarah such a great character to me in the first 2 films was how she embodied maternal instinct, like the most badass version of it, and represented mankind’s tenacity to survive. But here it feels like what they did with Laurie Strode in Halloween 2018, where she’s still a survivor but driven by darker motivations because of her trauma. I guess I’m just upset to see good characters become pessimistic. Why can’t Hollywood give beloved characters a happy ending and let them keep it
Yeah your essay is bull shit.
@Rogue Wolf. Why can't Hollywood give beloved characters a happy ending. You mean like John Connor? They couldn't even wait till he was an adult and had a life. Kill him off as a little boy with a point blank shotgun shot to the chest. What a joke. T2 one of the best films ever made. Hasta La Vista John
strugen ikr, I kinda wish they let John and Sarah have somewhat of a normal life after T2 and then brought them in later as backup or something. It almost feels like Johns death was written for the sole purpose of explaining why she’s still hunting Terminators
I interpreted the ending as Dani resolving to change the future and prevent Legion. (You know, just like Sarah did before with Skynet.) That makes it a perfect ending to the whole mythos, implying a repeating cycle of apparent predestination that gets broken by free will. Humanity’s destruction is always hanging over us, and we must keep making the choice to stop it.
Another great element of the movie was how Carl’s whole character arc combined pieces from all of Arnold’s previous iterations. He began as the cold and relentless killer, then became the protector, and had to reconcile that entire lifetime’s journey.
Cody, Carl was not using data he got from skynet. He was actually measuring incoming temporal waves or something like that from the current year. He knew something was going through time. He didn't necessarily know what or from when/where
I personally believe they could have kept the John Connor opening death scene but changed the storyline for the rest of the film. I believe John Connor should have died in the opening, and the rest of the movie should have been about Dani Ramos and Mackenzie working with Sarah Connor to travel back in time to change the timeline to prevent John Connor’s death or at least reverse it and revive him. At the end, they should have had adult Edward Furlong appear as a revived adult John Connor in a cameo to show that the fate was changed. The movie should have kept its working title of Terminator Phoenix. Phoenix would have fit with the “rebirth” of John Connor.
Thankgod this movie flopped so they can fix things.
Actually if it flops you can kiss Terminator goodbye. They wont "fix" anything.
@@CodyLeachYT I hope they stop making terminator movies. I haven't enjoyed one since T2.
Jon Fro-Mez well not really because I heard they’re going to make more sequels
@@CodyLeachYT Good. As a big Fan of T1 and T2 I don't want anymore Terminator Sequels.
Horrormaster13 well they’re probably going to make more and they don’t care if you don’t like it
I can compare another flim that did this.
Now, let me say that Terminator Dark Fate is a way better flim than this, but in Halloween 5, when Rachel gets killed off early after her being an amazing character in H4 was also just a middle finger to harcore Halloween 4 fans.
Cant believe theres now a terminator sequel that damages the best one in the franchise. 😥 (sad times)
It doesnt damage it at all
@@CodyLeachYT Yes it did.
Ok well as someone who literally idolizes the first two films and watches them continuously I dont see it that way at all. You see it however you choose to.
Rock Universe Gaming it doesn’t people are just over reacting including you
Sorry but it did damage it. That's why it's a box office bomb.
The reason Skynet probably only sent one Terminator is because Skynet that one Terminator was efficient to complete the mission. The probability of one Terminator executing John Connor was probably really high and high enough for Skynet to have a high probability of success sending one Terminator to the Past.
I'm glad you enjoyed this film, Cody. It really is hard to talk about this movie without the spoilers. So, I'm just gonna respond to your facebook comment here. To a certain extent, I understand your point about John Conner. However, the fact that they destroyed Cyberdyne in T2 was only one mission of that film. The other mission was keeping John Conner alive. Yes, the victory for Cyberdyne is still in tact but the victory of John being saved is not. Listen, it's not so much that he died, it's how he died. John Conner, the character built up as the savior of the franchise since the first movie, dies for absolutely nothing. This feels like Alien 3 all over again. They pulled a Newt. Never forget Newt, my friend. They spent the previous movie having us care about this character's survival and what their future would be outside of this nightmare, only to turn around and kill them off before the opening credits. It's such a letdown. If you're going to kill a character like this, you have to justify it, and to kill him off only to turn around and recycle a ton of crap that we've already seen in this franchise is pretty insulting. If he had been in a good chunk of the film and then died for Dani, I would have been 100% ok with that. They could have had him struggling to find purpose in life after the events of T2. He's no longer the most important member of the human race, so he has no idea what to do with his life. You could have had him, along with Sarah, helping to protect Dani and then sacrificing himself for Dani. It would have been impactful having the previous savior of mankind die for the new savior of mankind. It not only gives this character who was built up from the start a heroic death, it not only has him passing the torch, but, when you think about it, it also makes him the savior once again. It would have been a simple and poetic death and I don't think many people would have had a problem with it. But, I'm sorry, what they did instead was a spit in the face to me and a, fo a lack of a better word, "Legion" of other fans. On top of that, there really is nothing in this film we haven't seen before. It's funny how James Cameron claims to hate every Terminator film after T2, and yet everything in this movie is recycled from all 5 previous entries. I would have liked something more original, in the vein of salvation. However, the plot is just a retread and just doesn't bring new things to the series. New characters are here but they are doing the same thing that the characters in the previous movies did. It's such a waste to me. It feels less like a progression of the storyline, and more like a hard standstill.
Couldn't have said it better.
Code Man, you & Sean Chandler are THE best film critics on RUclips by a landslide! I loved this dual review even though I haven't yet seen the movie (I already heard about the big twist before watching this). I'm going to watch it this Friday as a double feature with Doctor Sleep. Even knowing all about the storyline in Dark Fate, your kick-ass, killer kool review still piqued my interest in the film! First of all, you both have way more fans than haters so don't allow someone like Jeremy Johns and his ultra-manic review get to you! I understand his point about John Conner but he can't convey his message without shrieking like a banshee who just smoked a shitload of crack! In the horror genre alone, we have lost favorite characters who survived the previous film in the opening scene of a sequel (Laurie in Halloween: Resurrection, Alice in Friday The 13th: Part 2, and Kristen, Kincaid & Joey in A Nightmare On Elm Street: Dream Master to name a few). I kind of figured that bringing Edward Furlong back as John would be in cameo mode only since the trailers and the film's buzz omitted his supposedly comeback role completely! The recasts (Nick Stahl, Christian Bale & Jason Clarke) didn't help matters either, plus Furlong has seen better days: peaking as a younger actor post-T2 in films like American History X & Little Odessa. He's not an A-List actor or bonafide younger leading man anymore (and I'm not hating on him whatsoever; I actually wish his transition from child/teen roles to adult characters wouldn't have been waylaid by his real-life traumas). The John Conner roster of recasts are problematic enough, and bringing back Furlong as one of this film's stars would have been a major mistake (much like Halloween Kills is desperately attempting to recapture its heyday with a cast of has-beens, nobodies, generic newbies and elderly performers who have all seen better days). I can totally see Dark Fate working as the 3rd entry in a Terminator trilogy alongside the original and T2 without John's once-mighty presence! We all lose characters whom we love in both film & television. Take the hit and go along for the ride with or without him! It's the end of his world, not ours! Fuck the naysayers! ***extends middle finger*** (Same comment posted on Sean's channel).
Thanks man
"Legion"? How original. That name was used for AI before (an AI protagonist in Command and Conquer 3 Kane's Wrath and a geth from Mass Effect 2 and 3).
It was in the Bible. Lot of demons possed one man. "We are Legion, we are many". Now it just basicially means any kind of hive mind entitiy.
I dont think Kyle reese was John's original dad. How would John exist in the first place to send Kyle back in time?
Time loop man. Kyle reese was always there and will always be sent back.
Joseph V. I’m with you in the original timeline he is not his father another unknown is and when Reese is sent back he then takes that persons place in the timeline what is referred to as predestination paradox John Conner was going to be conceived with or without Kyle Reese to set the events of T1 in motion.
Great video! I give you all the credit in the world for being able to make your points without needing two cuts in the middle of every sentence.
One question about the movie (spoiler obviously):
When they were on the helicopter, they told Dani she was the future leader (not her child). But when they did the flashforward (flashback?) to when she met Grace, and Dani was much younger. Shouldn't Dani have been older when she met Grace, not younger?
I loved it. It's a worthy sequel to the first two. I know the opinions are divided but I loved it regardless.
The most compelling aspect of this film is that, like what T3 (which was retconned) said about Judgment Day being inevitable, apparently, the "Savior" is inevitable as well AND... apparently Sarah has to mold that savior.
The major issue is that this movie did! not! at! all! express any of this in a good way. It mostly served as a rehash of T1 and nothing about T2 other than liquid metal. That film expanded on T1 with a whole separate subplot involving destroying Skynet. All they did in this film was run like the first film but without any of the heart suspense and character development...
Wouldn't all those Terminators learn that John was dead and all turn into a bunch of Carl's?
Yes. Multiple " We've been waiting for you"
Carl was sent after t-1000. He caught sarah and john offguard and acomplished his mission and eventually became carl to give himself a purpose. All the other terminators who came after carl were killed by sarah as soon as they appeared
@@SP69462 I saw the movie.
Didn’t realize how attached I was to T2 until I saw young John murdered in the opening title like a hoe. I verbally shouted no at the screen and left the theater, lol. Gonna try to finish it next time.
Sarah wasn’t there when Legion’s terminator first came through. He had already killed multiple people by the time she showed up.
I feel the writers were trying to say that being the mother of the savior isnt good enough by Sarah Connors cynical attitude of " your not important, just your womb" Since when is motherhood a bad thing.
I think if I could had fixed this film? I would had put John Conner had some kind of emotional attachment with Dani. (Perhaps his Daughter.) At the end instead of "Carl", John sacrificed himself to protect Dani in a very heroic ending.
I think if they went in this approach? People would had been more open to this new movie and not been so pissed off within the first 5 mins. It was a very stupid move. People got so pissed off. They may would even given it a chance if killing off John happened had at the end of film.
Oh as for "Carl" Jeremy Jahns did a very hilarious take of this. I found it funny anyways.. lol
ruclips.net/video/mVdm5BM1nI0/видео.html
It was true in a sense of what he was making fun of. But with T2, It was stated as you saying that "Uncle Bob" would had been the same way as Carl. If he had lived longer. "Uncle Bob" was reprogrammed tho. There is that argument yeah. But who knows. Carl reprogrammed himself? lol
The scene where they have Mackenzie Davis firing a DP-12 was dumb. That gun was way too big for her frame, plus no one bothered to tell her that you're supposed to unfold the sights (see also Linda Hamilton, like most actors, not unfolding the foregrip on the Serbu Super Shorty).
Where did you get the cover of the main theme? It sounds badass
It's a metal version by Ethan Casner
Just saw it last night and I think your point about how would the T-800 know the new “Legion” timeline coordinates is a great one. Maybe (in this universe) time travel itself leaves those ripple effects as Arnold started to explain. So perhaps he could sense/interpret those ripples in some way. The T-800 must become part of the resistance in that Legion timeline, given that they had the coordinates of his compound outside Laredo, given that he was prepared for civilization’s eventual collapse into barbarism, then he would have survived and might be a major player in the resistance.
All thoughts on everything aside, what exactly made the "De aging" process look rough on Arnie, compared to Linda? You must have been seeing something that I couldn't, cause I re watched it numerous times and couldn't figure out what differentiated the two...? 🤷♀️
I enjoyed it though it did have issues. Didn’t mind a new direction with killing off JC in that awesome de-aged scene. T-1000 still can’t be topped though.
Mike Cranston This movie flopping has done that already 😄. They did all they can with John Connor including, ridiculously, making him a Terminator. The actress playing the replacement savior was totally unconvincing though. That “stand and fight” scene had me rolling. Liked Grace and Sarah though.
Good point.. they should have shown that..
I think the scene with Dani fighting off the Rev 9 before using the power core did make a bit of sense, if a bit overdone. If she'd just let it get close without doing anything to distract it, it probably would have been able to resist just like it did even with all the distraction. At least that all got them to where Arnie could wake up and easily help.
I watched a spoiler video from a RUclips channel that I like name Jeremy Jahn and he wasn't happy with the John Connor death and I'm mixed about it. While I understand why they did it because of shock value and they want to go into a different direction but on the other hand it will piss some of the fans off by how they just shoved him to the waste side so I can understand their frustration. For me I don't think I needed another movie in the series because it was dead after T2 and I get that it's Hollywood and they will do whatever they want but still.
Sean Chandler brought me here
I’m glad you liked it but I’m completely on the opposite end of your review and I agree with you a lot lol. I felt if they’re going to go in this direction they should have made legion way into the future after John and Sarah have passed on and brought something new. This is basically just a remake of the original with female Kyle to protect the new mother of the future. It wasn’t anything new to me. I think it would have worked better if they got Edward furlong, Linda Hamilton, Arnold, and Robert back and all them team up to protect the new leader of the resistance against legion and have legion be way more advanced than skynet was, bring in new weapons and terminators that are even more advanced than the T800 and T1000 combined. That would have made a lot of money and been more respectful to all the fans. It’s just like you say in hellraiser 2 when the doctor walks in and wipes the floor with pinhead. You just don’t do that lol
Carl puts the jacket on and then almost the glasses... epic
Great review! I agree with about the fist 10 mins. In facf our thoughts are very similar in my review.
I think Sarah found Dani and Grace because Arnold said it was the chronal displacement. It made time waves even before the event. I think that's the way Arnold tried to describe it.
I thought the EMP was a good idea to take the Terminator out. That or anything electromagnetic. Obviously this Terminator does not die on explosions. Having some sort of magnet or electromagnetic pulse would end up frying its electronic systems.
I think with Dani saying that to Sarah at the end kind of does make sense. I was confused at first though. But I think she means by be "ready" is that she can mobe quicker and get one step ahead of the enemy so hopefully there will be no need to send Grace back. Maybe, Idk. Thats the way I look at it anyway.
In T1 Skynet only had the opportunity to send 1 Terminator back through time- the T-101
and the Resistance... just 1 volunteer in Kyle Reese... before they blew up the
time displacement equipment... which Reese tells Silberman during his
interrogation...
"The terminator had already gone through, they sent
me to intercept and then they blew the whole thing...."
In T2, maybe Skynet could of sent another Terminator outside of the T-1000...
but maybe they felt they didn't need to... as the T-1000 was that much more advanced....
But now in Dark Fate... I guess they did send more than just the T-1000 back
right? ...as in another T-101 as a backup....
but... then why create a terminator, Rev9, that is essentially two in one when
they suddenly have the ability to send multiple terminators back....???
I don't know. As someone who thought Dark Fate was decent I still think it could have at least balanced out John's Death with some kind of meaning or retribution. I mean just me but I personally would have LOVED it if they said Grace was John's Daughter. That would have made me like her even more.
In T2 they reset Arnolds CPU because it was on read only. That's why he started learning more and acting a bit more human.
So why is he acting like that here in this movie?
And how would he have information on other terminators sent back in time, that's information he shouldn't have !! Oh!!! skynet making mistakes 😏
The chip removal is a deleted scene in T2. It’s not canon.
At end of the day T3 and T6 are the same movie; both render stopping apocalypse in T2 pointless, John as a savior/character is pointless, new savior introduced (Kate is co-savior that kicks John’s ass back into shape), same T800 that kills John helps the crew at the end of the movie. They are only differentiated by Hamilton being back and a new spin on the antagonist terminator.
This guy has godly charisma he seriously got my to change my mind about the john conner death.
I think what Dani meant is that she would prevent legion from ever becoming IE John and Sarah preventing Skynet from being created. My biggest plot hole or question I have is the ending sets up that Sarah Connor goes on and continues to train Dani and takes on a mother type role. If this is the case it’s makes no sense that Dani of the future at no point tells Grace about Sarah if Grace and Dani are also adopted family. In short Grace should know who Sarah is through future Dani if Sarah trained that Dani.
I know a lot of people hated how they killed John Conner. I had no problem with it because I found Edward Furlong annoying in T2 so I didn’t mind seeing him get blown away lol
I was entertained by your 1st question on Sean's channel and I was obliged to answer again once I seen it asked again. Let me first say I'm critical of movies and video game stories. It needs to make logical sense. I dont remember Carl's exact words because it made sense to me at the time of 1st watch (I've seen it 2xs) but these terminators popping up are not coming from skynet data.. they are events that can be quantized by the anomaly itself.. whatever that may entail be it the disturbance in the the laws of physics or whatever the case may be.. he can quantify it. Legion is not skynet but there is no reason for me to believe their technology is vastly different.. especially being a computer that takes the most logical evolution from one point to another which is a straight line.. and especially looking at the basic structure and design of what a terminator looks like in both timelines.. and even if they were very different technology as far as coding goes.. the laws of physics in our world are still the same.. that rip in time is still quantifiable for arnold. The question for me is did he also give her Grace's coordinates? it's on a freeway.. sara hunts terminators.. she knows where grace went and where rev 9 went and there has been some time since they both landed to her arrival. Grace gives her more time to get to mexico if shes not already there. I'm gonna assume per T 2 shes very familiar with Mexico. She followed the carnage.. granted that was fast but if shes camping on the freeway listening to 911 calls she can run up on them quickly. They had already fucked shit up a good 10.. 15 mins before she shows up from her work to the freeway.. if shes been doing this for years and shes badass at hunting terminators off the grid I'll give it a pass. Somebody has to be calling 911 or whatever they call in mexico for policia.. OR.. follow the smoke and fire..BUUT.. as arnold says.. she didnt really keep her phone in the potato bag.. & she wasnt on the phone cupcaking with Joe Schmoe.. my guess is she was looking for radio chatter
Um...🙋🏼♂️If sky net sent multiple terminators, shouldn’t the resistance have sent multiple counterparts?
They knew the same date for the first two terminators, so why not the rest?
I hated the direction this movie went. Sarah went from hero of the world, that taught John everything he knew, to a vessel that carried John 9 months.. Sarah: “they want you for your womb” 🙄
I feel like the best explanation for multiple Terminators would be several were sent in 1991, but the existence of any T800 keeps Skynet in play. The T800s processor existing in 1991 means the future aka Judgment Day is still alive. The processor keeps the loop open. If ONE of the T800s real identity is discovered by anyone other than Sarah, John, Myles Dyson's wife or son, and the T800 gets incapacitated, the future is still on.
I feel like people nowadays really forget what made John Conner so special, to begin with. It wasn't that he grew up to be a powerful leader, it was that he was a kid with a good heart. Carl killing John allows for a different narrative than that of Uncle Bob from T2, but while allowing the story to retain similar themes and ideas that made T2 so good.
I think arnolds secondary purpose should have been, if it failed to allow judgement day to happen, to restart skynet. Still, send sarah connor coordinates but have it to where its all a trap. The only person who comes back in time is grace, and it will turn out that arnold created the new terminator, the rev 9, with the help of the newly revamped skynet.
I enjoyed it , the action scenes were good.mackenzie davies was terrific.not a patch on the first two of course but not the disaster like salvation and genysis.
3/5
I felt the same about the final showdown between Dani and the Rev 9. I'm like okay, he had her in a chokehold. You're telling me he couldn't just crush her throat in 2 seconds? A small issue, but definitely one that I also noticed.
Yep that was action nonsense for a cool moment.
I loved the movie and had a great time going back to the franchise, with that said I do feel like this movie didn't do T2 justice as a sequel, and the over all theme of Terminator is your future isn't set, fate is what you make it, but this movie sets up that John wasn't important to the rise of the machines, AI still becomes aware. No matter what, it's a dark fate that you can't change. Otherwise everything else was cool.
I really hate everyone's negative reviews of this movie, cuz most of the reviewers seem like they can't get off John Connor's dick and in turn a lot of people are just listening to them without watching the movie and forming their own opinions. You're right, they've done so much with John Connor that it'd be pointless rehashing his plotline again. And if they brought him back I guarantee all these reviewers who are shitting on this movie would shit on the movie for relying on nostalgia too much.
JC's death was fucked up, but it's not as bad as everyone's making it seem imo.
Wow by killing him it made T1 & T2 worthless but your fine with it 😕
No it didnt. Not at all
@@CodyLeachYT 99% of people disagree
@@ktoogood11 And they’re incorrect.
@@Ratchet299 No, they don't.
Ya know I have to say that for a long time I hated the way they ended John Connor, but if I'm being honest you've changed my mind on it.
I don't have a problem with Sarah Connor showing up because she's received text messages but how did she know that they were on the bridge because when they appeared they weren't appearing on the bridge. There must be some back story or some other side story that we didn't see that when she got the coordinates she went to the location and she tracked the rev9 or Grace somehow and then ended up catching up with them on the bridge.
You make a lot of valid points and it's good that you back them with reason instead of just bashing the movie. I didn't hate the movie but it was underwhelming in some respects. Why does arnie even exist if skynet was wiped out? Wouldn't he disappear? His existence makes no sense in the film unless I missed something. I liked the idea of Grace and how she's enhanced but she crashes way too hard. And I did NOT like Gabriel Luna as the enemy. He's not nearly as menacing or intimidating as the villain needs to be. And the CGI is questionable in a lot of parts. DEAR HOLLYWOOD. STOP THINKING IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO USE SHIT TONS OF CGI. It's necessary someone's yes, but practical effects on T2 still look better. The terminators in future war in T2 look way better than those ones on the beach in dark fate. Just sayin...
Just saw it. Loved it. Great review as always my man...
Killing off John Conor was one of the biggest reasons I loved this story. It's time we be done with this character and storyline
Couldnt agree more
I totally agree John has always been nothing but motivation what’s the best way to set up a really powerful ark for his mother rip that motivation away from her in an instant
Great review by the way! Subscribed 👍
Im still pissed that they did john connor dirty like that its like killing off desmond miles on some bullshit only to be replaced by some random as called layla hassan
Danny would also have to find Kyle and send him back or John still wouldn't be born
Not quite but once you get into time Paradox stuff we'll all get a headache lol
@@CodyLeachYT still a great movie, we agree that salvation was a good film as well, we don't know when your next fan video is due but my husband wanted to know if you received his letter and gifts
This movie was absolutely needed to clean up the trash that came before it. There is a line that Sarah Connor says in T2 at the end when the battle is over when they toss the chip and arm into the molten pit, she says "it's over." Which means that THEIR part in armageddon was over. John had Fulfilled his destiny. Now a new threat looms.
Also John Connor as a lead character has failed each time he was the focal point in a film, besides T2. This movie actually made Terminator interesting again.
No it didn't... not in the slightest. Real fans would understand that
Listen to 9:45 and explain to me How Skynet is no more and Judgement day never happened if John never grew up to send Kyle back to create himself? The events of T2 never happened because John didnt exist. So, not only is Skynet around, they won.