The likelihood that this problem exists once they have this actually in place is much lower. But I'm going to assume they'll have ways to figure out if it was a bug or not.
The idea is that this will only come once stability is present. If CIG can never get the game stable, then this will never come bc 1.0 will never come.
@@Hav0k it's just that ships have been randomly exploding for no reason for the last 10 years. It seems like a threat to talk about consequences of losing your ship when it's probably CIG's fault you lost it. We already suffer a LOT of consequences due to CIG's incompetence. I don't say "incompetence" lightly, but most of these bugs are many years old. I've only been to jail legitimately once, all the other times were due to bugs. Which of us has not been scanned by dumb cops while trying to land in 3rd person and then fined more than the last mission paid? Who has not lost hours when missions were cancelled due to sever restarts? Always the consequences, and now they threaten us with more consequences as if they're improving the game somehow.
@@leslieviljoen Yeah but they would prob only implement this in when the game is fully ready for release to begin with. ur comment literally just sounds like an excuse to shit on roberts more which yeah all of us do but this doesn't even make sense in this context. He already said that this feature would prob only be implemented when the game is ready, doing before this is stupid and cig knows that.
Intended mechanics are going to obviously backfire, on paper the intent is there. The reality is that players will find an exploit to abuse the system. So the actual system that goes live just needs to replace the whole ship with minimal setback. As this is a limitation of video game design. Actual mechanics do not become what devs intend. A too extreme system could make it possible to brick your account, ergo a soft or hard lock of being unable to progress. It matters how lethal the PU is going to be, an extremely chaotic and lethal PU, think of Star Citizen PU being like space Rust. It actually does the opposite of what the mechanic is trying to do, rather than making loss matter, it just makes the high-end gear artificially nerfed and there is no point risking the big or expensive stuff outside specific Clan or Grouped events. Whereby, you're just going to find the most small/medium cost-effective ship to grind infinite in game currency as the primary money making loop. Turning the game into a boring, repetitive, optimised grind fest. This also serves no purpose as, why farm in the first place, as running big expensive ships or gear is just making you a target. It defeats the purpose of farming and progression in the first place. TLDR: Game is never going to actually be real so, it doesn't matter anyway.
*I fundamentally Dis-agree with all of this.* This is exponentially growing into something that does not qualify as a game. But instead a convoluted, over complicated, increasing time consuming, head ache enforcing reality, more complicated and time consuming than reality itself. The central purpose of a game has been scientifically proven to be a system enforcing and strengthening intelligence and reaction response and decision making. But to achieve that, and still being a game, it demands "rules" on the game to be a game, that the system, the tools, the objective, and more importantly, the emersion, Must contain a small level of unrealistic Convenience to keep you in a mental position of working your brain for the right reasons. With out that rule, its not a game, and without that rule, it has no longevity. As soon as it is officially released, people will start realising and perceiving the long run of this exponentially endlessly increasing convoluted complicated mess. Without any level of convenience, you will create a systemic Class system against the players, were a targeted massive class of players are guaranteed to be oppressed by the system. The more convoluted the system, the more it targets and alienates types of players by their own real life tier. Those who don't have time to spend 12hrs-18hr a day, every day, on the game, will become excluded. And that, is the majority. They just don't know it yet, because it hasn't been released. Emersion has no limits, emersion can be more inviting than reality, but emersion can replace reality, and this is becoming a reality with zero convenience. Unless you are retired, or on state benefits with all the time in the world to play around the clock, this system is becoming more complicated and convoluted, it takes forever to achieve setting up anything for a single session before you even start playing. ...This so-called game is now becoming more complicated than reality, and Reality is not a game. Yet when people realise it is more complicated and oppressive than reality ...that is when the dream dies. In reality, I only have One insurance on my car, I don't have any multitude multiple insurances for each individual component of my car. That is stupid. If they institute taxation in this game, I am out of it, for good. A game is to escape the oppressive reality your already living in, not double it.
I think you're overcomplicating insurance in the game. It's been said time and time again that players will be able to pay for an entire months of insurance in a couple hours of gameplay time. Additionally, small ships will be readily available and easily replaced. This approach has been in the plans of the game since it's inception. There will undoubtedly be plenty of gameification to make it more focused on delivering a good experience that is indicative of a game. But this final goal has always been the plan. And it definitely won't be something everyone will be happy with.
@@Hav0k Its not just insurance, its every aspect of the game. Travel, inventories, meaningless weather patterns that everyone will ignore and forget after a weeks play, the list is endless. What is absolutely necessary is being left to the side lines for all this. I am amazed they haven't yet instituted in-game taxes where all ingame player characters have to pay taxes on everything they earn. I am willing to bet ...that will come!
@LineaDeus The thing that we're missing is that at the end of the day it is a game still in development. All of this will likely change and be balanced to be present, but significantly tedious than it is now. The reason all of this is more frequent is so the elements are tested so they can see what works and what doesn't work. Change is the only constant.
@@LineaDeus I think the biggest and absolute game changer in everything would be to achieve 100% success rate in spawning in your own ship, both when you're logging out from ship bed and when you got disconnected, plus ensuring game stability and balance to the point that we won't blew up because of "server things", or tiny ship kamikazeing a capital. Once all of those are in place at least I expect most players will not be doing the gown shame run, aka respawning with the gown, buying and gearing ourselves up, wait for insurance cooldown, etc etc. We would be sleeping and waking up in places where we choose, and flying ships that we very rarely claim insurance on. I think the major point of frustration for most players right now is because CIG is implementing changes that basically slows down progression tremendously, while the server is still extremely unstable which inevitably kicks us out of server or ship blowing up due to no fault of our own, and then forcing us to do those tedious tasks again.
@@Hav0k If I may Havok. Some people only play 1 or 2 hours at a time. In short, a average game's daily cost. It takes just that time to load a ship with cargo and fly somewhere. You have to sacrifice realism to gameify stuff. Otherwise, where are the hanger pit crews? By rights, repairing that Cooler should also include you taking parts out, buying fluid in another star system, screwing and unscrewing bolts, and more. But no sane person wants to do that. Just as no one in Star citizen enjoys playing as someone else's gunner.
If they want to do this right then there should be a mechanism to go after the offending player (in player vs player) suing them for the loss incurred through either their malice or negligence.
I mean I don't think gear fear will be a real thing once crafting is in the game. Just means that it will hurt when you lose it. Doesn't mean that it will be extremely difficult to get back. And once all of the systems are in place; it could possibly work well. If they did a tarkov style insurance system, this would work well too.
@@Hav0k a fight in a normal dayz server is way more intense than a deathmatch dayz server where you get all your stuff. I would wager most people enjoy the former more
You want realism but when you go into a store for 15 minutes you don't come back to your car blown up. At the moment day after day I leave my ship and come back to it being blown up.. wtf really? My ship in 8 years has never lasted more that 6 hours.
Been flying the same ship for the past week without losing it as well. This is good, as it will force players to be slightly more careful instead of flying around recklessly abandoning their vessels just to get a cheeky pirate kill on a innocent low tier hauler, or a simple low level bounty hunter. As the risk must be worth some high rewards otherwise it's not worth it. This will heavily reduce, not eliminate, griefing, ramming, and other nefarious activities where a death is certain, for no reward except for troll satisfaction, which will be highly outweighed by the punishment. Once functionality is in place (station turrets, armistice zone, and proper protection services) PVP will finally be a high risk, high rewards venture, instead of the chaos it is currently, significantly reducing random acts of violence throughout the verse. This will be incredible for the game, not just in terms of realism, but even in non pirate situations, we will be more keen to choose the right tool for the job, which will then give each ship more inherent value and increase the variance in a good pilots choices and to then use proper discretion in each individual scenario. This will also make it extremely valuable to have multiple ships, and a variety of skillsets to fall back on when one inevitably dies. This will all come into play and work functionally when we have all core systems in place, and server stability, when we get to the beta optimization and full release phase of SC 1.0. Exciting stuff, and we are just scratching the surface
@@Chris-u8s7c Keep in mind. The world we live in today is a lot more safe and settled than previous times in history. Space exploration is more akin to the wild west. Leave your horse outside the saloon and you may be shot inside and have your horse stolen.
Not sure if anyone else is feeling the same way, but lately it feels like SC takes more effort than my actual job lol. I can literally finish a 6-month work project and get a bonus faster than earning decent aUEC in the PU now. In the past 12 months I have lost around 60 mil in ships due to bugs/patches/updates ( ships that were stored properly - according to CIG ) and getting that fleet back? Will now take hundreds of hours longer on top of the hundreds it already took. (I also know its "still in alpha") Don't get me wrong, I love hopping in an awesome ship, cruising around and exploring all the amazing planets. But spending 1 to 2 hours just prepping to fly, only to have your ship explode leaving the hangar? Super deflating. The immersion is cool , but everything's getting so tedious that it's pushing away casual players who just want to do some chill space trucking and flying. It's wild - one of my favorite game feels like it's actively trying to make me stop playing it. The universe is incredible, but the fun is getting buried under all these time-sinks.
T1 insurance is confirmed (with warranty) to provide not just a chassis, but a ship with a complete stock loadout, all t1 though. Without warranty is supposed to be the credit value of a factory fresh vessel from a standard npc vendor.
Can't wait to spend a week of play sessions going through the game play loop for getting my ship back after I forget the landing gear is still up and smash into the side of a hangar at 600 m/s 😂😂
A big issue I see with all this insurance stuff, is that people like having a roster of ships. Most people I know have at least 8 ships. To insure all of them, would be hell. So now they are limiting people's love of haivng every ship they like, unless they have some way of having tons of money.
I generally like the idea of meaningful consequences from your actions, but given the path that lays behind us, I have real trouble believing CIG can implement those mechanics in the foreseeable future without causing huge player frustration. CIG never once was able to present us with a state of the game that would have allowed for such harsh failure driven consequences. Until now almost all failures are caused by the code/computing power and not by the player's actions. They would have to adopt an inverted policy for making the game, since everthing would have to be bullet proof for release and could no longer be rushed. Such change is a hard thing to do for a big corporation.
I honestly have confidence they can pull it off and will. A lot of what they talked about in the most recent ISC gives me a lot more confidence that they're thinking about good, intelligent solutions. They'll get there. It will just take time.
its alpha, fixing every bug at this stage would only be nullified with the next build. Sure they could do it, but it would severly slow down development and implementation of future systems into the PU. There is no recipt to create the Star Citizen, where they know exactly what to do, and plan for such. If this is unappealing, then avoid early access games.
@@Paisa231 I think you did not get my intention. I was not bashing CIG and the Alpha status. I am just saying they cannot implement all these harsher consequences because their game is not stable and will not be for a long time.
One thing that might come from this is the Space Tow Truck game loop. A badly damaged but highly valuable ship might be worth towing to a safe zone rather than just backspacing. The SRV might finally have it's place in the verse and there could even be a rep system for SRV operators within one of the Guilds.
I think this could end up working out for the better in multiple ways, starting with trading. A traders worst nightmare is pirates, but in my own experience fighting pirates, playing with other pirates and trying to teach them, most are absolute trash at combat. With the added risk and their lack of ability their may be less of them to worry about, however it may be just the best of the best. Further, if you have an escort (hopefully they make trading worth it so you can hire one), pirates will have a much harder time taking that cargo. My group of 3 ran escort for one trader who took the risk and hired us, and we took on 8 pirates and won. I do like the insurance changes but it's gonna become a situation where you really only bring out the more expensive ships if you absolutely need to. It'll also make it so people can't just kill themselves and leave their ships on pads anymore as they teleport back to a station to repeat their trade run. As a pirate, I try not to destroy the ship if I can help it and would prefer no casualties so it'll make people more agreeable, at least I'd hope 😅
This is just going to make it so many players start playint, get their ship destroyed by an accident or a glitch or players. They see they cant get the ship back and they never play again.
The mechanics and system are pretty cool. Hopefully they stick to giving a transferable warranty for beating SQ42, with Citizenship. (Would you like to know more?) Also, I need everyone in the Polaris hangar at 0400. We're going to do a full layout of all the ship's components.
Actually, I'm looking forward to this. It adds another layer of immersion and enables the player to actually care for his or her stuff. But I also understand the implications here too. If you had to put dozens of hours into a string of missions to earn a certain unique ship and you upgrade the heck out of it until it's a tier 5 beast, loss of that ship is unbearable. Even without gamebreaking bugs and server crashes, even in the most secure systems, there's always a risk you'll end losing that ship. And no warranty will bring it back. I actually would love a "Level 4" insurance which covers upgrades and unique stuff as well, but they should not be time based, but one-time only (or multiple times, if you want to invest that money in one go). Level 4 insurances need to be quite expensive depending on worth of ship, items and upgrades for ship + items. If it's an unique ship, it'll cost more since it's far more difficult to replace. So if you got your very own Millenium Falcon, you'll make sure you fork over the buck as there is only one of its kind and should you ram it into a planet's crust at high speed, you want that ship back. After all, it's the Millenium Falcon. Also I like the idea you actually can recover your very own lost ship. That means you need to be able to repair a ship back from "soft death" to "space worthy" or tow it back to a nearby wharf for reconstruction. So if you actually care for your ships, you may actually WANT to spend some hours repairing your ship by hand to limp back to a hangar for thorough repairs. Sure, why not? Especially cool should you bring friends to repair your Polaris, Carrack or Starrunner. Not only is this more content for multi gameplay, it's also immersive too. Or imagine the big cleanup after a massive org vs org space battle. If you guys are civilized, a truce will ensure your repair & recovery teams can collect whatever ships are left for repairs, each org dealing with their own wrecks. Why not? Again: it's immersive to actually care for any consequences of your actions. It also helps to connect more and more gameplay loops to a complete experience. As I said, I'm looking forward for this. Same for Death of a Spaceman, artificial limbs and heritage / legacy. I hope we also get a "memorial wall" for all characters we've created and lost, including their life achievements. Hey, should we ever able to run for Senatorship, I want to see that too in one of my legacy characters ... Do I need to tell you I love "intense" if that means "immersion"?
There's a lot of implications that go into a system like this for sure. But I agree, I love the intense nature of it that you could lose a ship if you don't exercise good judgment.
@@Hav0k then why even play the game? you lose all your stuff and you lose your character and start again. just sit in your hanger being safe. its stupid
My understanding you only get a ship back if you have insurance at any level AND warranty. If you only have insurance (at any level) you only get the credits!
at around 11:00 when you are talking about the ships from the stores, they already have something worked out on that, i am refering to citizencon. Also why do most people assume you can buy warranties? you can insure, but as far as i have seen and listened to citizencon, warranties are earned, why else would you introduce a transferable warranty? Also warranty comes in 3 tiers, tier 1 you get the ship back how you bought it, tier 2 you get the ship back with the custom components and finally tier 3 you get your ship back with all the decorative stuff and all else that isn't cargo that you attached to it. For example fishtank, chair, bobbleheads, etc
Oh I have so many feelings but I'm being mindful that things may change as more things are implemented so maybe my hauler wont get shot down as much or I can rebuild it decently quick with my craft/trade/haul focus
Oh for sure. There's a lot more that goes into it of course. Like hover mechanics, armor, and balance passes. At some point I don't even think accidently hitting your wing on something will rip it off in the future. But we'll have to see what other features affect all this.
I love your ideas, as one who is looking forward to specialize in crafting and getting special blueprints. I need the insurance system to not devalue my specialization 😊
I work in commercial insurance and it's hilarious to see the real world concepts and issues I deal with in my day job like actual cash value (tier 1/baseline insurance in SC), replacement cost value (warranty in SC), and endorsements to cover customizations and upgrades (insurance tiers 2 & 3). I have to wonder if your loss ratio is going to be a factor in how much your insurance premiums cost. If you keep losing your ships or lose larger ships without much of a gap in-between losses, you would expect that your premiums are going to go up because you're a bigger risk to insure.
Lol I'm gonna be honest... I wouldn't be against it as long as there's a cap for how high those premiums get. But that might be too realistic for some who would appreciate a more gameified approach
I think the problem with your idea of always replacing the higher tier items with a uec reward, is that no one would want higher tier ships. Make it slower to get the ship back, sure. But make YOU have to work to get that ship back up to the previous tier every time? nah. We have to balance investment and consequence, with >fun
good ideas, although just a slight admenment to tier 2 warrent towards components: we know already that unique components (found on rare NPC ships for example) aren't covered by this, but going with the example of taking out a ship with all tier 5 components and you get destroyed still. For arguement sake, what if for tier 2, you do get those components back, but, important part, those formally max crafted parts are now only tier 1 or store bought versions of those parts. Won't change a huge amount of your idea, but still allows them to meet the letter of the warrently of getting those customized components back, but at the same time, only having them at tier 1 means you will have to seek out crafters to get your ship reupgraded back to its peek performance.
I gotcha. Yeah I wasn't sure if they were saying that unique, non-stock, components would be covered or not. There's still a little bit of vagueness with it when it comes to components. But since tier 3 components are the highest (and ships go up to 5) I'd say if they receive replacement components with that, it should definitely be tier 1.
@@Hav0k indeed, but to my knowledge of what has been said, unique components you find on rare NPC ships (presumably ones with unique buffs to them) won't be recoverable with the planned system. Fair, got the tier limit mixed up a little, but yeah, that way, for example, your flying a smaller ship, but with max components (for example, you have a tier 3 atlas QT drive), the ship is destroyed and you reclaim it with tier 2 warrenty on it. The ship is brought back with the Atlas drive, but it is at tier 1, basically like the manufactore gave you the base model they had without any personal tuning you had to it. Which feeds into your idea where you then take it to a crafter who specializes in ship componnents and either pay them to make a new one or find some arrangement to aid in creating a new tier 3 atlas QT drive for your ship. if anything, the only thing I'm not sure about is how the decoration is defined, in regards to ship paints you have bought. Example: I own both Carrack BIS paints. If I lost my carrack and had to reclaim it, but it had the BIS paint equipped to it, if I didn't have tier 3 warrenty on it, would I loose the paint, even though its tied to my account? is there a way to basically recraft the paint? basically, if you don't get the paint back, but its tied to your account, you have the blueprint for that paint, you take that to a ship customize and, as long as you have the credits, materials and time, you can get the ship repainted in a paint you own, as long as you have the blueprint and the paint is tied to your account
@@PsychicSoldierPro that would make sense then for that level of component replacement. And i appreciate that if that is their intention. As far as paints are concerned, from what they've stated is if you have a subscriber or paid item from the store like decorations or possibly even paint, you'll get a blueprint for it when crafting is in the game so you can craft the replacement. But they also intend to bring in the unique item recovery, which i bet paint will be included. It would have to be tbh. So, i think that we'll be fine in that regard.
@@Hav0k indeed since this is, as far as I know, what they said was their intention, regarding those unique components. Of course, they can change things in future, but for now, as far as I know, that was the current plans for unique components to be unable to be claimed ^^ that would make sense. Of course, it will be nice for CIG to clarify, but as long as you can A. recover it with the unique item recovery system or B. have the blueprint and can either pay with in game credits or recraft the paint and get the ship resprayed with the paint. Either works for me, but we will see :)
@PsychicSoldierPro Agreed. But based on what i heard from SCL last week on the unique item recovery and subscriber items giving blueprints, I'm betting paint would be 100% included since they're paid items.
I want used ship lots to be in the game as well. Have ships with super low end components for cheaper than New Deal, for example. Also, have them be a location to bring salvaged/derelict ships to be registered under your name (after a fee and time period) or sell directly to the lot. This would give tug ships another gameplay role in the game.
This was something i was talking about with my Org and how it not going to be as easy as just hiting the reclam everytime somethign go worng. They need to add a heavyer time to a reclam for ships that are blowen up on top of the fee for insurance. if it just dead in space we need to have a ship maker so we can use a SRV to tow it back to a station for repairs. Small/Mid ship are one thing, but i feel like as they get bigger the hit need to be heavyer...If you cantafford it DONT take it out solo, it need to be a Org/group thing..so if it go down the team can come together and help pay for the fee if it get blown up fully. This will keep solo/small group to smaller ship making it easyer on them if something go worng. But there need to be consequence for useing bigger and better ship.. not just a 30min timer and 15k fee for a booboo -_- This will also help with insurance fraud. if you have to pay lets say 70% of the ship price tag to reclam it then you make MUCH less for selling the RCM. and yes they did comf that comps and weapons will be replaced with Lv2/3 Insurances that you buy in game. Crafted one we dont know if they count yet.. but im sure they do.
Yeah I agree. And I guess I missed the confirmation that they'd replace components and weapons with those tiers. Hopefully when crafting is introduced they give them tier 1 replacements so people are having to upgrade them once again as I described.
The main problem I see as you pointed out in the video is that when higher tier insurance replaces high tier components it could hurt the players who craft those components and I agree unless it's a payout for the components you should only get a tier 1 ship back.
Agreed! That's why I'd like to see crafted and unique earned components not be part of the replacement process with insurance. I think it would take the emphasis off crafting and earning powerful rewards.
you didn't mention bounty hunting spoofed ships. You would need to scan them closely, then report the data(for a reward). this in turn would lead to a bounty contract to retrieve the vehicle. Also, respawning in mobile beds is too arcady. But a simple solution, Dead reviving requires a body, a technician, and a substantial amount of meds. No body, back to home location, no tech, off to nearest hospital/tech, no meds, same or get meds. I would also increase crime stat of destroying someone's body, as being dead is a mild inconvenience, while no body is a serious handicap.
You'll never have to worry about paying for insurance other than paying for the difference if you want a higher tier insurance. Pretty much nothing changes from the original plan.
The sad part of all the beautiful thoughts and dreams is that most likely they will never become a reality in this decade or maybe the next. But listening to this gives you hopes of a nice game, maybe one day.
This is all I ever want for SC to implement, once this is in I would play this 24/7 xD There needs to be some serious money sinks in this game to provide the much needed perception of value.
And to add to that, today there is no "WOW" factor to any ship, if someone in the future takes out for example a polaris that should be like "OMG there is a polaris" type shit which would happen if the ship has a connected risk to it.
This wouldn't be the first time that CIG has made a bad design choice just like forcing so call Master Mode that is terrible to use and even worse to fight using. Allowing for actual salvage would be more worth while where you can salvage a ship, repair it, register it, then allow for selling of the ship with in game currency. Changing of the insurance system is a bad idea with the glitches that require you to explode your ship in order to fix. Or you could allocate a system like in eve where destroyed ships purchased with in game currency are gone forever but with the base implementation you would have the ability to salvage ships and construct and sell ships for yourself creating a real world interactive system and addition to game mechanics and opportunity for alot more. This would require a limited amount of ships to be in the game purchased with in game currency and add real value.
@Hav0k CIG tends to implement things without actually fixing the problem. Just like Master Mode is the perfect example. ARMOR was said to be implemented for the use of MM because the reduction of all survivability is so drastic that you really have no way to get out of that situation. Salvage has yet to be very useful because they failed to implement total salvaging instead of just the shell, Mining nodules don't work 90% of the time and you run into massive clusters that are totally unuseable, NPC missions you can't complete because they get stuck in a closed elevator as just a small list of implementations that they put zero thought into how it would work and more into only a concept. Or maybe without talking into thought how bad some ships programming is that you can't even use the ship or you can't leave or use without exploding the ship. So now they are going to punish you for there error because you have no choice but to destroy the ship just to use. Now you have to pay more to purchase a higher priced insurance and risk losing everything that you upgraded because they can't polish anything and fix things before the next problem is thrown in the mix. You are punished for there mistakes because of a concept.
You also got to think that PYRO will be one big junkyard a salvages dream with PVP game there. I dont agree that tier 2 gear and higher should be insured that is lost forever that is why you build them for. For any Org would be silly to sell their tier 5 ships or items to the others to me it would be like USA giving Iran Stealth fighters. Selling tier 3 is fair enough.
My biggest fear, owning a Hull E, is going about delivering a huge costly load and one random player decides right there to become a pirate and blows me up to great financial losses to me but great ''pirate credz'' to him. I hope that players representing only 10% of entities in game means help might be closer than we think, if AI is reliable.
They've thrown around the idea of having temporary insurance for cargo when completing cargo missions or when transporting cargo. But we'll have to wait and see
Im that single player thats big on graphics tech and space games thats been following star citizen for a long time, popping in every now and again, and still dont know how to do anything other than fly a ship. As someone who usually uses mods to increase inventory limits, all this stuff seems super intimidating. Having wear and tear on things is also super annoying in games
sooooooo whats the point of spending 750 USD thats possible to have to pay in game for it again? Even if its just half the in game price, thats fuckin absurd
that 750 is so you NEVER have to BUY the ship in game you have it forever. the Insurance is for IN GAME stuff like Ship loadout Lv2 and add ons you have in the ship like gun/gear/tools/food/ammo/other shit for Lv3, Lv1 is what you pay IN GAME if you got the SHIP IN GAME, if you used Real Moneyfor the ship you have Lv1 forever
you spend the money for the development of the game. If your ship has a liftimeinsurance you dont have to pay anything in game. Only if you (for example 6 month) insurance ran out, you have to pay ingame. BUT maybe I got it wrong. english is not my first language.
@@throdwobblermangrove6200 you still have to pay for higher lv of insurance, it just Lv1 and warranty are free with a ship you buy off the shop with RL money.
@@LuluGamingDK yes. Imagine you would get full lvl3 warranty four your pledged ships. People would call it "pay to win" because you can bring your ship into a fight, claim it, go back into fight, claim it.... Also: I dont know how CIG will make money in future. Maybe you have to pay real money for your warranties. (big maybe, just a guess) A lvl1 insurance for a big ship will be worth a lot.
Okay let's say I'm going to go back and retrieve my ship. How am I supposed to know what I need to get that ship operational. What are the logistics of making the trip or several trips to get the ship operational to be able to fly it back.
They make it sound like the loss of all your gear, cargo and your ship and the 40 minutes of prep / get there to collect whatever is left is nothing. I don't see it that way. Then again I don't have all day to play.
This is just my opinion. I would rather have the tiered insurance they're proposing now. The game is already going to be complicated enough. Your idea is good but I would be too afraid to support any org operations or combat missions knowing if I lose my ship I have to start over from scratch. I would never use any of my larger ships and I wouldn't ever want to upgrade them knowing everything I did just went down the drain. I have time but not that kind of time. Real life comes first and I can see a lot of people losing interest dealing with the same problems you face IRL. I was 28 when this game officially started development. I will probably be 50 when it finally launches. I want to enjoy playing the game while I can. Not be stuck constantly grinding components for a single ship.
Understandable. You and I are close in age so I can understand your perspective. I think that you'd benefit more from orgs than you might think though. For example in my organization, I know for a fact that if a player lost a tier 5 ship on an org op as the result of the operation itself and not entirely the fault of the pilot, we'd likely ensure that once the player received the replacement ship, we'd upgrade it back to its former status. I doubt it would entirely be on the player themselves unless the loss was completely their fault.
@ True, if my org is willing and capable of facilitating that mechanic then I say “full send”! Though further issues arise with the need for some serious accounting in terms of ship component manifests and the uphill battle of people being truthful about what components they had on their ships without datalogs highlighting such things. (Emergent gameplay: Org accounting office) *god I hope this doesn’t turn into Eve Online.* Thank you for your reply! I enjoy hearing what people come up with for this game 😋
Im proly never going to do anything but fly to org base and just build and never fly if this insurance system is as bad as it looks the moment i lose something i end up never wanting to play again
Imagine having high risk high reward data running missions to report updates of criminal records to other systems, that when you accept it, the flagged users are notified of your location and could try to stop you from reporting to the other systems.
I don't think the game is ready for costly insurance for a few reasons. Right now, you have to claim almost constantly. You may lose your ship due to a bug when landing, an unknown violation, a player, an accident, being at a different station, or having the game randomly forget its yours after you got disconnected. I'm totally fine with the time penalty that's currently impose with losing a ship. I'm not keen on adding additional costs on top of it, because making money in this game is already a challenge. I can understand the need for a long term money sink in the game, because over time players will accumulate all of the ships without one, which would be bad for the business model of selling players ships with real money. Having to pay premiums on your in game insurance on each ship would definitely limit people from getting everything forever.
Insurance is nice but only if released after the game is finished. If released before it could be the death shot for Srar Citizen... Also would say every insurance should give back at least the stock ( basic ) ship. Otherwise new players could be in trouble because mostly the first fly is also the first death. With a bit of cash the have to run back and buy a new one if the insurance money is high enough to not end up without ship.
this well bring the SRV good for going to fetch your old ship to salvage the components out or even repair the ship to full health if its not in bits lol as for taking your best ship in to Pyro that's the point isn't it? My new salvage job . Bring back players XX ship form here ! deliver it to 1. his hanger . 2 your hanger . 3 sell it to Brio breakers lol
Absolutely. This would drive other players to want to fill repair roles or towing roles and I think it will be great. Especially when the new service beacons and player missions are implemented.
Been flying the same ship for the past week without losing it as well. This is good, as it will force players to be slightly more careful instead of flying around recklessly abandoning their vessels just to get a cheeky pirate kill on a innocent low tier hauler, or a simple low level bounty hunter. As the risk must be worth some high rewards otherwise it's not worth it. This will heavily reduce, not eliminate, griefing, ramming, and other nefarious activities where a death is certain, for no reward except for troll satisfaction, which will be highly outweighed by the punishment. Once functionality is in place (station turrets, armistice zone, and proper protection services) PVP will finally be a high risk, high rewards venture, instead of the chaos it is currently, significantly reducing random acts of violence throughout the verse. This will be incredible for the game, not just in terms of realism, but even in non pirate situations, we will be more keen to choose the right tool for the job, which will then give each ship more inherent value and increase the variance in a good pilots choices and to then use proper discretion in each individual scenario. This will also make it extremely valuable to have multiple ships, and a variety of skillsets to fall back on when one inevitably dies. This will all come into play and work functionally when we have all core systems in place, and server stability, when we get to the beta optimization and full release phase of SC 1.0. Exciting stuff, and we are just scratching the surface
@blasterml I swap servers if I get into one with too much desync, you can also check the server status when you get in by typing r_displayinfo 1 in commands. I stick with servers that have 6 or higher server fps, and don't have trouble with clipping.
I have feelings. And my feeling are telling me that within stories are beloved characters. Some of those characters are not only sentient beings, they are also animals, machines and vehicles. Imagine every time Han Solo walked back to the Milleniam Falcon it was blown to smithereens.. we need to rethink what a ship is and how it should be treated.
Yes, ships right now are constantly getting blown up. In the future, this will likely happen less. Tbh, the number of times I've lost my ship in the last 4 years by another player destroying the ship has probably been a total of 2 times. All other times have been bugs or simple mistakes on my part. Things will get better.
Ah once again, CIG is changing their BS after the player base has invested hundreds of millions in this games development. The only fair option is to apply this insurance tier system on all future sales all previously purchased ships would be fully covered. In all honesty the game is becoming too complex, many features that were promised have not been coded into the game. MedBeds on ships don't function, it takes almost a full hour to get my Carrack outfitted since I can't spawn it with the Ground Vehicle and a craft in the hangar plus storage containers. I know CIG thinks its immersive to have to run around to several locations to outfit your ship but it's really it just tedious. Everyone does not have multiple hours to devote to playing SC some of us work long shifts 12-14 hour days and our break from that treadmill is getting online and playing a game for a short time.
Nothing was changed at all actually. This has always been their plan and there's literally no change. They were always intending that ships gave you tier 1 insurance by default for what ever duration. Meaning you only pay the difference in UEC to have higher coverage. For example if I have LTI, I have tier 1 insurance forever and just pay the difference in UEC in game to have the tier 3 coverage. This has always been their plan since the inception of the game.
I struggle with the Decorations part... It needs to be that you get the component value back, as well as any cargo in the insurance. Though this would need to be taken out per run when you leave the hangar. Like temporary insurance for the run. The decorations is something you spent time setting up, and getting your ship back set up how you left it is going to be key. I think the key is going to be, you get items back that fulfil the criteria of "Insurable" Tier 1 components and decorations, you just get back. Anything crafted by players is not manufacturer's standard, so is exempt. Components that have been upgraded have their own warranty void, so aren't insurable either.
As much I like your ideas and the way we all hope ship losses will be as we want people to respect loss and I would say 1 Million of us think that way, The other 4 Million will cry over it without a doubt as they want their ship back straight away. I would like to add one to it is that they is only certain amount of stock availiable in the system. Such as for a Capital ship there may only be 4 Idris ships in which can be replaced a Month as it is a Captal ship and quite a large ship. Polaris I would say 20 a month as it is a strike weapon. If you people remember the old game WWII online you only so many troops and amount of certain types of troops before you had to resupply other wise you lost the battle it should be the same here. Hornets being a military ship Maybe 60 a month and so on. Ships people pay real money for I would say for a small ship should be straight away and for a large ship maybe a week so that people hurt for the loss of that ship. Still think 4 Million would cry over it.
I honestly think there is less people than we might think that will truly be affected that much by it. There's tons of popular games where you lose much more and can't even get items back at all that people play a lot: Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Tarkov, etc. If they do it right I think it'll be fine. Players will undoubtedly have many ships to choose from when the game is out because they'll naturally want to try other ships. Either way, we'll see what it looks like when they bring it into 1.0.
you make a few good points but if you get targeted by a group and get greiffed then what, hows that work with insurance. yep might be low count but if it was you how would you take it. see thats just part of it, and if the server has an issue, you still have to go through the waiting game. i think they should just put all this aside till they really and i mean really think this through. this has to much reall money ridding on that. LTI is going to be what is another question how dose that fit in, and if its not tier 3 then a large goup of people with rebel so lets stop trying to fix something that shouldn't be talking about till this game gets to beta and get the dev's foucing on the hardware and software back end of the game, the 1k ppl per seed is still low for a player count, instead of beta stuff. we all still in alpha so lets get the kinks worked out first. but you do have some good idea's but i can see all the down sides do to there to many loop holes for what is already going on. so deal with that in beta.
That's why I think their ideas with warranties will help. But also, it might also put more benefit on running with a group of people so you don't easily get griefed. But being griefed in MMOs has always been an issue. It's sadly not something that will go away unless CIG addresses the core of that issue which is kind of a community related issue. But if you've looked into it, static server meshing is the first step that will progressively add more players as their server configuration get updated. They talked about potentially having 2-5k players with static. Dynamic server meshing could potentially one day have entire regions separated as timezones. But we'll see
well if they want to do realism, they should also assign claim adjuster and can approve or deny your claim. imagine being realistic and have your ship lost with insurance and insurance company denies half of the claim and you have to fork out more money out of pocket. Oh boy how real why we want all that in a game?
I disagree entirely. This would only work if they change the flight model again. The current flight model just leaves every pilot too vulnerable in combat, as the arcade shooter style leaves you without the ability to dodge or express any high level of skill in amy situation beyond a 1v1, and even then it's not great. It wouldn't track to introduce that arcade mechanic and the increased risk of death, and then also want that hyper realistic punishing element alongside it.
Just wanna say good luck to SC players with their precious ships when CIG implements more and more realistic insurances with little to no improvement in the current state of the game...
ideas are solid but there's one big problem: game stability. the most dangerous part of the game is the game itself. i wouldnt want to see any of these harsh penalties added to the game until after they manage to make the game stable.
CIG needs to offer a non-hardcore PvE option (and solo/private servers, of course). MANY of us do not want to be playing Second-Life: Space Edition. The way the game is going right now is tailored for basement-dwellers with no lives.
This is going to a wild ride as CIG patches the bugs and tries to balance the non consensual pvp mechanics that result in ship loss. Has an mmo ever done this successfully without alienating some of the player base? Let alone in star citizen which they said on stage is trying to appeal to everyone.
To my knowledge, no other company has done an insurance mechanic other than Tarkov and Tarkov copycats. Honestly I don't see insurance as being too overly complex, but it will definitely hurt to lose ships. Tarkov does this similarly as well with weapons and gear. There's a real tangible sense of loss and worry if you die. I think it could work and be successful if they are sure to balance it.
13:03 a little misspelling there. Thanks for covering it and then some. really nice to see your opinion. I do hope in the future, the next tiers of insurance/warranty are actually cheap. sure you can get some LTI but like I said before, fully decked out ships+ weapons stored aren't cheap in game. It would make you more careful but its already tedious as is with the waiting.
Big derp moment on my part lol. 😅 CIG has mentioned that usually you'd be able to pay for a month of insurance fees after a couple hours of play time. Which isn't too bad. But there needs to be real cost to the loss of a ship.
As far as I've checked, 3 tiers of insurance. Warranty is a straight replacement ship and that's it. Here's a quick down and dirty visual guide. www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1gjdenl/insurance_warranty_on_star_citizen/?rdt=37184
insurance tier 1 is already there... I dont think they will make EXTREMELY expensive insurances for ships man.. And maybe if it is it will be maybe 100-150k per month.. No point on speculating this now..
@Hav0k The video does not. The video says you get your ship and components/decorations back at the higher levels of insurance. That is only the case with ships with warranties, which generally, means real life purchased ships.
@BetterThanLifeProd @ 02:45 "If you purchase a ship through the pledge store with real-world money, or if you’ve earned and applied a transferable warranty in-game your ship will always remain on your account even if it's destroyed without insurance. It's recoverable, but there's a catch..." It most certainly does.
It isn't and has never been about getting shot down. Its invisible asteroids/doors or me falling out of my ship at qt or it just mf explodes in my hanger because one green bottle under the landing gear.
I like this game, but I want to log in and shoot stuff for an hour or two. If I have to pay for insurance to not lose everything to yet another ridiculous bug, i'm out.
You should. I support those who want to play whatever game they want. Even if you want to play more than one game. It's great to have options and living in a world where there's tons of them.
At first I really hated the new system. I paid real dollars for my ship therfore gimme ship. But after diving into these new changes I think I'm really going to be able to enjoy the game more. More game loops, "pirates" will really need to think twice about griefing, and having the ability to go recover my own ship when I snack a rock because I wasn't paying attention sounds like fun.
I think that things won't be as painful in the future once we're actually at that 1.0 stage. But I'd say that accidently hitting something shouldn't damage your ship as much as it does now. Hopefully they address that.
Of course not. This is much further down the road that we're talking. But it is a test environment that would benefit from them testing it before it's actually released however.
The problem is that there is such a thing as too immersive. The problem with this is at what point does this stop being a game and start becoming a damn virtual life generator? Like I get home after a long day, and I want to sit down and enjoy a video game. Not do goddamn chores and stress about shit like insurance. I already do that in real life
they better fucking fix the servers first, because they should not even think about having losing ships being a major detriment, if the servers are the reason, you lose the ship
I dont think I agree with this. I think you should pay for a bit but nobody is going to have the time nor people to constantly gain millions and millions by yourself. Thats way too much. I would think maybe around 40-100k would be fine but still you lose something thats way more than what its worth every single time. You wouldnt want to work like a dog in a game when you work like hell to pay for a ship you love. I think every ship should have a insurance function. Have a way to not need to slave to play. I think it should be timer based so you cant spam your ship and instead if you dont have the money to make it faster you simply join a crew so it enables people with multicrews to actually crew them. Then you dont need to worry too hard to worry your shit is just gone.
I feel like real money purchased ships should have lvl 1 everything it's real money I'd hate to have a money wipe have a bug then boop I'm miles away from flying my capital ship, I don't like it. Sure it's great until you mess with the stuff I paid for
no one has mentioned what you are meant to do when its a cig error that kills your ship : is there arbitration
The likelihood that this problem exists once they have this actually in place is much lower. But I'm going to assume they'll have ways to figure out if it was a bug or not.
The idea is that this will only come once stability is present. If CIG can never get the game stable, then this will never come bc 1.0 will never come.
@@Fuar11 Facts, game is just a mess, but I love it anyway
@@Hav0k it's just that ships have been randomly exploding for no reason for the last 10 years. It seems like a threat to talk about consequences of losing your ship when it's probably CIG's fault you lost it. We already suffer a LOT of consequences due to CIG's incompetence. I don't say "incompetence" lightly, but most of these bugs are many years old. I've only been to jail legitimately once, all the other times were due to bugs. Which of us has not been scanned by dumb cops while trying to land in 3rd person and then fined more than the last mission paid? Who has not lost hours when missions were cancelled due to sever restarts? Always the consequences, and now they threaten us with more consequences as if they're improving the game somehow.
@@leslieviljoen Yeah but they would prob only implement this in when the game is fully ready for release to begin with. ur comment literally just sounds like an excuse to shit on roberts more which yeah all of us do but this doesn't even make sense in this context. He already said that this feature would prob only be implemented when the game is ready, doing before this is stupid and cig knows that.
Intended mechanics are going to obviously backfire, on paper the intent is there. The reality is that players will find an exploit to abuse the system. So the actual system that goes live just needs to replace the whole ship with minimal setback. As this is a limitation of video game design.
Actual mechanics do not become what devs intend. A too extreme system could make it possible to brick your account, ergo a soft or hard lock of being unable to progress. It matters how lethal the PU is going to be, an extremely chaotic and lethal PU, think of Star Citizen PU being like space Rust. It actually does the opposite of what the mechanic is trying to do, rather than making loss matter, it just makes the high-end gear artificially nerfed and there is no point risking the big or expensive stuff outside specific Clan or Grouped events. Whereby, you're just going to find the most small/medium cost-effective ship to grind infinite in game currency as the primary money making loop. Turning the game into a boring, repetitive, optimised grind fest. This also serves no purpose as, why farm in the first place, as running big expensive ships or gear is just making you a target. It defeats the purpose of farming and progression in the first place.
TLDR: Game is never going to actually be real so, it doesn't matter anyway.
Excellent comment! I 100% agree with you. This guy's is a gas lighter for sure!
*I fundamentally Dis-agree with all of this.* This is exponentially growing into something that does not qualify as a game. But instead a convoluted, over complicated, increasing time consuming, head ache enforcing reality, more complicated and time consuming than reality itself. The central purpose of a game has been scientifically proven to be a system enforcing and strengthening intelligence and reaction response and decision making. But to achieve that, and still being a game, it demands "rules" on the game to be a game, that the system, the tools, the objective, and more importantly, the emersion, Must contain a small level of unrealistic Convenience to keep you in a mental position of working your brain for the right reasons. With out that rule, its not a game, and without that rule, it has no longevity. As soon as it is officially released, people will start realising and perceiving the long run of this exponentially endlessly increasing convoluted complicated mess.
Without any level of convenience, you will create a systemic Class system against the players, were a targeted massive class of players are guaranteed to be oppressed by the system. The more convoluted the system, the more it targets and alienates types of players by their own real life tier. Those who don't have time to spend 12hrs-18hr a day, every day, on the game, will become excluded. And that, is the majority. They just don't know it yet, because it hasn't been released. Emersion has no limits, emersion can be more inviting than reality, but emersion can replace reality, and this is becoming a reality with zero convenience. Unless you are retired, or on state benefits with all the time in the world to play around the clock, this system is becoming more complicated and convoluted, it takes forever to achieve setting up anything for a single session before you even start playing. ...This so-called game is now becoming more complicated than reality, and Reality is not a game. Yet when people realise it is more complicated and oppressive than reality ...that is when the dream dies.
In reality, I only have One insurance on my car, I don't have any multitude multiple insurances for each individual component of my car. That is stupid. If they institute taxation in this game, I am out of it, for good. A game is to escape the oppressive reality your already living in, not double it.
I think you're overcomplicating insurance in the game. It's been said time and time again that players will be able to pay for an entire months of insurance in a couple hours of gameplay time.
Additionally, small ships will be readily available and easily replaced. This approach has been in the plans of the game since it's inception. There will undoubtedly be plenty of gameification to make it more focused on delivering a good experience that is indicative of a game.
But this final goal has always been the plan. And it definitely won't be something everyone will be happy with.
@@Hav0k Its not just insurance, its every aspect of the game. Travel, inventories, meaningless weather patterns that everyone will ignore and forget after a weeks play, the list is endless. What is absolutely necessary is being left to the side lines for all this. I am amazed they haven't yet instituted in-game taxes where all ingame player characters have to pay taxes on everything they earn. I am willing to bet ...that will come!
@LineaDeus The thing that we're missing is that at the end of the day it is a game still in development. All of this will likely change and be balanced to be present, but significantly tedious than it is now.
The reason all of this is more frequent is so the elements are tested so they can see what works and what doesn't work.
Change is the only constant.
@@LineaDeus I think the biggest and absolute game changer in everything would be to achieve 100% success rate in spawning in your own ship, both when you're logging out from ship bed and when you got disconnected, plus ensuring game stability and balance to the point that we won't blew up because of "server things", or tiny ship kamikazeing a capital. Once all of those are in place at least I expect most players will not be doing the gown shame run, aka respawning with the gown, buying and gearing ourselves up, wait for insurance cooldown, etc etc. We would be sleeping and waking up in places where we choose, and flying ships that we very rarely claim insurance on.
I think the major point of frustration for most players right now is because CIG is implementing changes that basically slows down progression tremendously, while the server is still extremely unstable which inevitably kicks us out of server or ship blowing up due to no fault of our own, and then forcing us to do those tedious tasks again.
@@Hav0k If I may Havok. Some people only play 1 or 2 hours at a time. In short, a average game's daily cost. It takes just that time to load a ship with cargo and fly somewhere. You have to sacrifice realism to gameify stuff. Otherwise, where are the hanger pit crews? By rights, repairing that Cooler should also include you taking parts out, buying fluid in another star system, screwing and unscrewing bolts, and more. But no sane person wants to do that. Just as no one in Star citizen enjoys playing as someone else's gunner.
If they want to do this right then there should be a mechanism to go after the offending player (in player vs player) suing them for the loss incurred through either their malice or negligence.
Gear fear would continue to be a huge thing. They would just end up living in your hanger. I think it would be too much.
I mean I don't think gear fear will be a real thing once crafting is in the game. Just means that it will hurt when you lose it. Doesn't mean that it will be extremely difficult to get back. And once all of the systems are in place; it could possibly work well.
If they did a tarkov style insurance system, this would work well too.
Gear fear is good tho???
@TKanal3 i don't disagree. It does serve a purpose. You worked hard for the good gear you have.
@@Hav0k a fight in a normal dayz server is way more intense than a deathmatch dayz server where you get all your stuff. I would wager most people enjoy the former more
@@TKanal3 I'd definitely agree with that. There's tangible loss that could happen if you lose a fight. It's super rewarding tbh
You want realism but when you go into a store for 15 minutes you don't come back to your car blown up. At the moment day after day I leave my ship and come back to it being blown up.. wtf really? My ship in 8 years has never lasted more that 6 hours.
I haven't lost mine in over a week.
Been flying the same ship for the past week without losing it as well. This is good, as it will force players to be slightly more careful instead of flying around recklessly abandoning their vessels just to get a cheeky pirate kill on a innocent low tier hauler, or a simple low level bounty hunter. As the risk must be worth some high rewards otherwise it's not worth it.
This will heavily reduce, not eliminate, griefing, ramming, and other nefarious activities where a death is certain, for no reward except for troll satisfaction, which will be highly outweighed by the punishment.
Once functionality is in place (station turrets, armistice zone, and proper protection services) PVP will finally be a high risk, high rewards venture, instead of the chaos it is currently, significantly reducing random acts of violence throughout the verse.
This will be incredible for the game, not just in terms of realism, but even in non pirate situations, we will be more keen to choose the right tool for the job, which will then give each ship more inherent value and increase the variance in a good pilots choices and to then use proper discretion in each individual scenario.
This will also make it extremely valuable to have multiple ships, and a variety of skillsets to fall back on when one inevitably dies.
This will all come into play and work functionally when we have all core systems in place, and server stability, when we get to the beta optimization and full release phase of SC 1.0.
Exciting stuff, and we are just scratching the surface
@@Chris-u8s7c Keep in mind. The world we live in today is a lot more safe and settled than previous times in history. Space exploration is more akin to the wild west. Leave your horse outside the saloon and you may be shot inside and have your horse stolen.
@@Arcwolfman "this will heavily reduce griefing, not increase it" from which ocean do you gather these pearls of wisdom ?
Not sure if anyone else is feeling the same way, but lately it feels like SC takes more effort than my actual job lol. I can literally finish a 6-month work project and get a bonus faster than earning decent aUEC in the PU now. In the past 12 months I have lost around 60 mil in ships due to bugs/patches/updates ( ships that were stored properly - according to CIG ) and getting that fleet back? Will now take hundreds of hours longer on top of the hundreds it already took. (I also know its "still in alpha")
Don't get me wrong, I love hopping in an awesome ship, cruising around and exploring all the amazing planets. But spending 1 to 2 hours just prepping to fly, only to have your ship explode leaving the hangar? Super deflating.
The immersion is cool , but everything's getting so tedious that it's pushing away casual players who just want to do some chill space trucking and flying.
It's wild - one of my favorite game feels like it's actively trying to make me stop playing it. The universe is incredible, but the fun is getting buried under all these time-sinks.
T1 insurance is confirmed (with warranty) to provide not just a chassis, but a ship with a complete stock loadout, all t1 though.
Without warranty is supposed to be the credit value of a factory fresh vessel from a standard npc vendor.
I may not have clarified that, but yeah that's how I understood it as well.
Can't wait to spend a week of play sessions going through the game play loop for getting my ship back after I forget the landing gear is still up and smash into the side of a hangar at 600 m/s 😂😂
Lol don't crash! Stay safe!
A big issue I see with all this insurance stuff, is that people like having a roster of ships. Most people I know have at least 8 ships.
To insure all of them, would be hell.
So now they are limiting people's love of haivng every ship they like, unless they have some way of having tons of money.
I generally like the idea of meaningful consequences from your actions, but given the path that lays behind us, I have real trouble believing CIG can implement those mechanics in the foreseeable future without causing huge player frustration. CIG never once was able to present us with a state of the game that would have allowed for such harsh failure driven consequences. Until now almost all failures are caused by the code/computing power and not by the player's actions. They would have to adopt an inverted policy for making the game, since everthing would have to be bullet proof for release and could no longer be rushed. Such change is a hard thing to do for a big corporation.
I honestly have confidence they can pull it off and will. A lot of what they talked about in the most recent ISC gives me a lot more confidence that they're thinking about good, intelligent solutions. They'll get there. It will just take time.
@@Hav0k I wish them success as well. Soon we shall see if Meshing can indeed solve lots of their current issues.
its alpha, fixing every bug at this stage would only be nullified with the next build. Sure they could do it, but it would severly slow down development and implementation of future systems into the PU. There is no recipt to create the Star Citizen, where they know exactly what to do, and plan for such. If this is unappealing, then avoid early access games.
@@Paisa231 I think you did not get my intention. I was not bashing CIG and the Alpha status. I am just saying they cannot implement all these harsher consequences because their game is not stable and will not be for a long time.
One thing that might come from this is the Space Tow Truck game loop. A badly damaged but highly valuable ship might be worth towing to a safe zone rather than just backspacing. The SRV might finally have it's place in the verse and there could even be a rep system for SRV operators within one of the Guilds.
Absolutely! And i think that would really drive recovery gameplay to be a real thing.
@@BobWobbles and who will risk their SRV to go to a dangerous zone to do the towing¿?
@@CmdrSoup Plenty if the money and/or rep is right. Unless you're risk averse and want to keep it parked in the hangar.
hanger eats my ship i pay for it "ALL THIS INSURANCE STUFF CAN ONL Y WORK IF THE GAME IS SEAMLESS
I mean, of course. That's the intention.
Literally! I fall through the map so often. Lol
Game is alpha, this feature wont be in for a long time
@@subgenius5150 yep. I mentioned that as well.
@@Hav0k ya there is just so many people not understanding this concept
I think this could end up working out for the better in multiple ways, starting with trading.
A traders worst nightmare is pirates, but in my own experience fighting pirates, playing with other pirates and trying to teach them, most are absolute trash at combat. With the added risk and their lack of ability their may be less of them to worry about, however it may be just the best of the best.
Further, if you have an escort (hopefully they make trading worth it so you can hire one), pirates will have a much harder time taking that cargo. My group of 3 ran escort for one trader who took the risk and hired us, and we took on 8 pirates and won. I do like the insurance changes but it's gonna become a situation where you really only bring out the more expensive ships if you absolutely need to. It'll also make it so people can't just kill themselves and leave their ships on pads anymore as they teleport back to a station to repeat their trade run. As a pirate, I try not to destroy the ship if I can help it and would prefer no casualties so it'll make people more agreeable, at least I'd hope 😅
I completely agree. I think it'd honestly create more depth
This is just going to make it so many players start playint, get their ship destroyed by an accident or a glitch or players. They see they cant get the ship back and they never play again.
That's assuming that when this is introduced the bugs and glitches aren't fixed.
@@Hav0k this is cig we’re talking about. Bugs and glitches are a feature
@@Phantom-dm9fz i don't expect bugs and glitches to be a constant issue in 1.0 as they are now.
@ only time will tell with this. There is a lot of promises cig has set forth and their goal posts have been completely moved back or removed
Your first ship (any ship that is part of your account) will have insurance already and a indefinite warranty, so you would't loose the ship.
The mechanics and system are pretty cool. Hopefully they stick to giving a transferable warranty for beating SQ42, with Citizenship. (Would you like to know more?)
Also, I need everyone in the Polaris hangar at 0400. We're going to do a full layout of all the ship's components.
I agree that they should hopefully do that for SQ42.
And, stop you're giving me flashbacks 😭
@Hav0k lol
Actually, I'm looking forward to this. It adds another layer of immersion and enables the player to actually care for his or her stuff.
But I also understand the implications here too. If you had to put dozens of hours into a string of missions to earn a certain unique ship and you upgrade the heck out of it until it's a tier 5 beast, loss of that ship is unbearable. Even without gamebreaking bugs and server crashes, even in the most secure systems, there's always a risk you'll end losing that ship. And no warranty will bring it back.
I actually would love a "Level 4" insurance which covers upgrades and unique stuff as well, but they should not be time based, but one-time only (or multiple times, if you want to invest that money in one go). Level 4 insurances need to be quite expensive depending on worth of ship, items and upgrades for ship + items. If it's an unique ship, it'll cost more since it's far more difficult to replace. So if you got your very own Millenium Falcon, you'll make sure you fork over the buck as there is only one of its kind and should you ram it into a planet's crust at high speed, you want that ship back. After all, it's the Millenium Falcon.
Also I like the idea you actually can recover your very own lost ship. That means you need to be able to repair a ship back from "soft death" to "space worthy" or tow it back to a nearby wharf for reconstruction. So if you actually care for your ships, you may actually WANT to spend some hours repairing your ship by hand to limp back to a hangar for thorough repairs. Sure, why not? Especially cool should you bring friends to repair your Polaris, Carrack or Starrunner. Not only is this more content for multi gameplay, it's also immersive too.
Or imagine the big cleanup after a massive org vs org space battle. If you guys are civilized, a truce will ensure your repair & recovery teams can collect whatever ships are left for repairs, each org dealing with their own wrecks. Why not? Again: it's immersive to actually care for any consequences of your actions. It also helps to connect more and more gameplay loops to a complete experience.
As I said, I'm looking forward for this. Same for Death of a Spaceman, artificial limbs and heritage / legacy. I hope we also get a "memorial wall" for all characters we've created and lost, including their life achievements. Hey, should we ever able to run for Senatorship, I want to see that too in one of my legacy characters ...
Do I need to tell you I love "intense" if that means "immersion"?
There's a lot of implications that go into a system like this for sure. But I agree, I love the intense nature of it that you could lose a ship if you don't exercise good judgment.
@@Hav0k then why even play the game? you lose all your stuff and you lose your character and start again. just sit in your hanger being safe. its stupid
@@tiamatthedragon6758 because then there's reasons to grind and play instead of just earning everything and then never leaving your hangar after that
My understanding you only get a ship back if you have insurance at any level AND warranty. If you only have insurance (at any level) you only get the credits!
Correct. The warranty replaces the ship. The insurance pays out the value of the lost ship.
at around 11:00 when you are talking about the ships from the stores, they already have something worked out on that, i am refering to citizencon. Also why do most people assume you can buy warranties? you can insure, but as far as i have seen and listened to citizencon, warranties are earned, why else would you introduce a transferable warranty? Also warranty comes in 3 tiers, tier 1 you get the ship back how you bought it, tier 2 you get the ship back with the custom components and finally tier 3 you get your ship back with all the decorative stuff and all else that isn't cargo that you attached to it. For example fishtank, chair, bobbleheads, etc
Oh I have so many feelings but I'm being mindful that things may change as more things are implemented so maybe my hauler wont get shot down as much or I can rebuild it decently quick with my craft/trade/haul focus
Oh for sure. There's a lot more that goes into it of course. Like hover mechanics, armor, and balance passes. At some point I don't even think accidently hitting your wing on something will rip it off in the future. But we'll have to see what other features affect all this.
I love your ideas, as one who is looking forward to specialize in crafting and getting special blueprints. I need the insurance system to not devalue my specialization 😊
I completely agree. I definitely don't want insurance to devalue it either
I work in commercial insurance and it's hilarious to see the real world concepts and issues I deal with in my day job like actual cash value (tier 1/baseline insurance in SC), replacement cost value (warranty in SC), and endorsements to cover customizations and upgrades (insurance tiers 2 & 3). I have to wonder if your loss ratio is going to be a factor in how much your insurance premiums cost. If you keep losing your ships or lose larger ships without much of a gap in-between losses, you would expect that your premiums are going to go up because you're a bigger risk to insure.
Please do not give them anymore ideas😂😂
Lol I'm gonna be honest... I wouldn't be against it as long as there's a cap for how high those premiums get.
But that might be too realistic for some who would appreciate a more gameified approach
I think the problem with your idea of always replacing the higher tier items with a uec reward, is that no one would want higher tier ships.
Make it slower to get the ship back, sure.
But make YOU have to work to get that ship back up to the previous tier every time? nah.
We have to balance investment and consequence, with >fun
good ideas, although just a slight admenment to tier 2 warrent towards components: we know already that unique components (found on rare NPC ships for example) aren't covered by this, but going with the example of taking out a ship with all tier 5 components and you get destroyed still. For arguement sake, what if for tier 2, you do get those components back, but, important part, those formally max crafted parts are now only tier 1 or store bought versions of those parts. Won't change a huge amount of your idea, but still allows them to meet the letter of the warrently of getting those customized components back, but at the same time, only having them at tier 1 means you will have to seek out crafters to get your ship reupgraded back to its peek performance.
I gotcha. Yeah I wasn't sure if they were saying that unique, non-stock, components would be covered or not. There's still a little bit of vagueness with it when it comes to components.
But since tier 3 components are the highest (and ships go up to 5) I'd say if they receive replacement components with that, it should definitely be tier 1.
@@Hav0k indeed, but to my knowledge of what has been said, unique components you find on rare NPC ships (presumably ones with unique buffs to them) won't be recoverable with the planned system.
Fair, got the tier limit mixed up a little, but yeah, that way, for example, your flying a smaller ship, but with max components (for example, you have a tier 3 atlas QT drive), the ship is destroyed and you reclaim it with tier 2 warrenty on it. The ship is brought back with the Atlas drive, but it is at tier 1, basically like the manufactore gave you the base model they had without any personal tuning you had to it. Which feeds into your idea where you then take it to a crafter who specializes in ship componnents and either pay them to make a new one or find some arrangement to aid in creating a new tier 3 atlas QT drive for your ship.
if anything, the only thing I'm not sure about is how the decoration is defined, in regards to ship paints you have bought. Example: I own both Carrack BIS paints. If I lost my carrack and had to reclaim it, but it had the BIS paint equipped to it, if I didn't have tier 3 warrenty on it, would I loose the paint, even though its tied to my account? is there a way to basically recraft the paint? basically, if you don't get the paint back, but its tied to your account, you have the blueprint for that paint, you take that to a ship customize and, as long as you have the credits, materials and time, you can get the ship repainted in a paint you own, as long as you have the blueprint and the paint is tied to your account
@@PsychicSoldierPro that would make sense then for that level of component replacement. And i appreciate that if that is their intention.
As far as paints are concerned, from what they've stated is if you have a subscriber or paid item from the store like decorations or possibly even paint, you'll get a blueprint for it when crafting is in the game so you can craft the replacement. But they also intend to bring in the unique item recovery, which i bet paint will be included. It would have to be tbh.
So, i think that we'll be fine in that regard.
@@Hav0k indeed since this is, as far as I know, what they said was their intention, regarding those unique components. Of course, they can change things in future, but for now, as far as I know, that was the current plans for unique components to be unable to be claimed ^^
that would make sense. Of course, it will be nice for CIG to clarify, but as long as you can A. recover it with the unique item recovery system or B. have the blueprint and can either pay with in game credits or recraft the paint and get the ship resprayed with the paint. Either works for me, but we will see :)
@PsychicSoldierPro Agreed. But based on what i heard from SCL last week on the unique item recovery and subscriber items giving blueprints, I'm betting paint would be 100% included since they're paid items.
don't care , have lti or 10y on everything. ain't no way i m wasting time on farming uec to claim a ship
I want used ship lots to be in the game as well. Have ships with super low end components for cheaper than New Deal, for example.
Also, have them be a location to bring salvaged/derelict ships to be registered under your name (after a fee and time period) or sell directly to the lot.
This would give tug ships another gameplay role in the game.
Absolutely agree. That would be pretty cool.
This was something i was talking about with my Org and how it not going to be as easy as just hiting the reclam everytime somethign go worng. They need to add a heavyer time to a reclam for ships that are blowen up on top of the fee for insurance. if it just dead in space we need to have a ship maker so we can use a SRV to tow it back to a station for repairs. Small/Mid ship are one thing, but i feel like as they get bigger the hit need to be heavyer...If you cantafford it DONT take it out solo, it need to be a Org/group thing..so if it go down the team can come together and help pay for the fee if it get blown up fully. This will keep solo/small group to smaller ship making it easyer on them if something go worng. But there need to be consequence for useing bigger and better ship.. not just a 30min timer and 15k fee for a booboo -_- This will also help with insurance fraud. if you have to pay lets say 70% of the ship price tag to reclam it then you make MUCH less for selling the RCM.
and yes they did comf that comps and weapons will be replaced with Lv2/3 Insurances that you buy in game. Crafted one we dont know if they count yet.. but im sure they do.
Yeah I agree. And I guess I missed the confirmation that they'd replace components and weapons with those tiers. Hopefully when crafting is introduced they give them tier 1 replacements so people are having to upgrade them once again as I described.
The main problem I see as you pointed out in the video is that when higher tier insurance replaces high tier components it could hurt the players who craft those components and I agree unless it's a payout for the components you should only get a tier 1 ship back.
Agreed! That's why I'd like to see crafted and unique earned components not be part of the replacement process with insurance. I think it would take the emphasis off crafting and earning powerful rewards.
you didn't mention bounty hunting spoofed ships. You would need to scan them closely, then report the data(for a reward). this in turn would lead to a bounty contract to retrieve the vehicle.
Also, respawning in mobile beds is too arcady. But a simple solution, Dead reviving requires a body, a technician, and a substantial amount of meds. No body, back to home location, no tech, off to nearest hospital/tech, no meds, same or get meds.
I would also increase crime stat of destroying someone's body, as being dead is a mild inconvenience, while no body is a serious handicap.
So how is this supposed to work for those of us who have ships with lifetime insurance?
You'll never have to worry about paying for insurance other than paying for the difference if you want a higher tier insurance.
Pretty much nothing changes from the original plan.
Nice ideas, but after 13 years we don't even have ship armor never mind craftable components.
You're right. Hopefully they happen sooner rather than later.
The sad part of all the beautiful thoughts and dreams is that most likely they will never become a reality in this decade or maybe the next.
But listening to this gives you hopes of a nice game, maybe one day.
This is all I ever want for SC to implement, once this is in I would play this 24/7 xD There needs to be some serious money sinks in this game to provide the much needed perception of value.
And to add to that, today there is no "WOW" factor to any ship, if someone in the future takes out for example a polaris that should be like "OMG there is a polaris" type shit which would happen if the ship has a connected risk to it.
Completely agree!
They really need to fix the server issues. Imagine losing a whole ship because of a bug or server error-that would be incredibly frustrating
This wouldn't be the first time that CIG has made a bad design choice just like forcing so call Master Mode that is terrible to use and even worse to fight using. Allowing for actual salvage would be more worth while where you can salvage a ship, repair it, register it, then allow for selling of the ship with in game currency. Changing of the insurance system is a bad idea with the glitches that require you to explode your ship in order to fix. Or you could allocate a system like in eve where destroyed ships purchased with in game currency are gone forever but with the base implementation you would have the ability to salvage ships and construct and sell ships for yourself creating a real world interactive system and addition to game mechanics and opportunity for alot more. This would require a limited amount of ships to be in the game purchased with in game currency and add real value.
I disagree that it would be a bad idea to implement it early before it goes to 1.0 so the problems can be ironed out before it causes chaos in 1.0.
@Hav0k CIG tends to implement things without actually fixing the problem. Just like Master Mode is the perfect example. ARMOR was said to be implemented for the use of MM because the reduction of all survivability is so drastic that you really have no way to get out of that situation. Salvage has yet to be very useful because they failed to implement total salvaging instead of just the shell, Mining nodules don't work 90% of the time and you run into massive clusters that are totally unuseable, NPC missions you can't complete because they get stuck in a closed elevator as just a small list of implementations that they put zero thought into how it would work and more into only a concept. Or maybe without talking into thought how bad some ships programming is that you can't even use the ship or you can't leave or use without exploding the ship. So now they are going to punish you for there error because you have no choice but to destroy the ship just to use. Now you have to pay more to purchase a higher priced insurance and risk losing everything that you upgraded because they can't polish anything and fix things before the next problem is thrown in the mix. You are punished for there mistakes because of a concept.
You also got to think that PYRO will be one big junkyard a salvages dream with PVP game there. I dont agree that tier 2 gear and higher should be insured that is lost forever that is why you build them for. For any Org would be silly to sell their tier 5 ships or items to the others to me it would be like USA giving Iran Stealth fighters. Selling tier 3 is fair enough.
That's what I'm saying. I don't want them to be covered either. We should have to earn it or craft the item again.
My biggest fear, owning a Hull E, is going about delivering a huge costly load and one random player decides right there to become a pirate and blows me up to great financial losses to me but great ''pirate credz'' to him. I hope that players representing only 10% of entities in game means help might be closer than we think, if AI is reliable.
They've thrown around the idea of having temporary insurance for cargo when completing cargo missions or when transporting cargo. But we'll have to wait and see
Im that single player thats big on graphics tech and space games thats been following star citizen for a long time, popping in every now and again, and still dont know how to do anything other than fly a ship.
As someone who usually uses mods to increase inventory limits, all this stuff seems super intimidating. Having wear and tear on things is also super annoying in games
sooooooo whats the point of spending 750 USD thats possible to have to pay in game for it again? Even if its just half the in game price, thats fuckin absurd
that 750 is so you NEVER have to BUY the ship in game you have it forever. the Insurance is for IN GAME stuff like Ship loadout Lv2 and add ons you have in the ship like gun/gear/tools/food/ammo/other shit for Lv3, Lv1 is what you pay IN GAME if you got the SHIP IN GAME, if you used Real Moneyfor the ship you have Lv1 forever
He said that if you bought a ship using real world money you could get it back without insurance
you spend the money for the development of the game. If your ship has a liftimeinsurance you dont have to pay anything in game. Only if you (for example 6 month) insurance ran out, you have to pay ingame.
BUT
maybe I got it wrong. english is not my first language.
@@throdwobblermangrove6200 you still have to pay for higher lv of insurance, it just Lv1 and warranty are free with a ship you buy off the shop with RL money.
@@LuluGamingDK yes. Imagine you would get full lvl3 warranty four your pledged ships. People would call it "pay to win" because you can bring your ship into a fight, claim it, go back into fight, claim it....
Also: I dont know how CIG will make money in future. Maybe you have to pay real money for your warranties. (big maybe, just a guess)
A lvl1 insurance for a big ship will be worth a lot.
So tier 1 insurance is the worst, but tier 1 med bed is the best ? confusing 😅
I mean if we want to nitpick, yes 😅. But I get what you mean.
But what about the ships with LTI? What tier of insurance/warranty will cover?
Okay let's say I'm going to go back and retrieve my ship. How am I supposed to know what I need to get that ship operational. What are the logistics of making the trip or several trips to get the ship operational to be able to fly it back.
CIG where dreams come true!!
They make it sound like the loss of all your gear, cargo and your ship and the 40 minutes of prep / get there to collect whatever is left is nothing. I don't see it that way. Then again I don't have all day to play.
Just because you have an insurance policy doesnt mean you wont have premiums to pay...
Oh I'm betting there will be lol
This is just my opinion. I would rather have the tiered insurance they're proposing now. The game is already going to be complicated enough. Your idea is good but I would be too afraid to support any org operations or combat missions knowing if I lose my ship I have to start over from scratch. I would never use any of my larger ships and I wouldn't ever want to upgrade them knowing everything I did just went down the drain. I have time but not that kind of time. Real life comes first and I can see a lot of people losing interest dealing with the same problems you face IRL. I was 28 when this game officially started development. I will probably be 50 when it finally launches. I want to enjoy playing the game while I can. Not be stuck constantly grinding components for a single ship.
Understandable. You and I are close in age so I can understand your perspective.
I think that you'd benefit more from orgs than you might think though. For example in my organization, I know for a fact that if a player lost a tier 5 ship on an org op as the result of the operation itself and not entirely the fault of the pilot, we'd likely ensure that once the player received the replacement ship, we'd upgrade it back to its former status.
I doubt it would entirely be on the player themselves unless the loss was completely their fault.
@ True, if my org is willing and capable of facilitating that mechanic then I say “full send”!
Though further issues arise with the need for some serious accounting in terms of ship component manifests and the uphill battle of people being truthful about what components they had on their ships without datalogs highlighting such things. (Emergent gameplay: Org accounting office) *god I hope this doesn’t turn into Eve Online.*
Thank you for your reply! I enjoy hearing what people come up with for this game 😋
@dannystratyys4002 lol that would make for a pretty interesting position in an org. 😅😆
Im proly never going to do anything but fly to org base and just build and never fly if this insurance system is as bad as it looks the moment i lose something i end up never wanting to play again
Imagine having high risk high reward data running missions to report updates of criminal records to other systems, that when you accept it, the flagged users are notified of your location and could try to stop you from reporting to the other systems.
This would also be pretty amazing and make data running important. It would be a pretty amazing system
Top tier insurance is basically the only way to go as long as you're still constantly at risk of loosing your ship due to the one or other bug :D
I don't think the game is ready for costly insurance for a few reasons. Right now, you have to claim almost constantly. You may lose your ship due to a bug when landing, an unknown violation, a player, an accident, being at a different station, or having the game randomly forget its yours after you got disconnected. I'm totally fine with the time penalty that's currently impose with losing a ship. I'm not keen on adding additional costs on top of it, because making money in this game is already a challenge.
I can understand the need for a long term money sink in the game, because over time players will accumulate all of the ships without one, which would be bad for the business model of selling players ships with real money. Having to pay premiums on your in game insurance on each ship would definitely limit people from getting everything forever.
This is a 1.0 plan when the game is stable and mostly free of game breaking bugs. Not something happening now.
Insurance is nice but only if released after the game is finished. If released before it could be the death shot for Srar Citizen...
Also would say every insurance should give back at least the stock ( basic ) ship. Otherwise new players could be in trouble because mostly the first fly is also the first death. With a bit of cash the have to run back and buy a new one if the insurance money is high enough to not end up without ship.
Seems you have cart before the horse on this one. How many years to 1.0 when Insurance mechanics and clocks start?
As long as the game does not kill me or force me out my ship, this is more or less the same as eve online.. and im happy with that.
this well bring the SRV good for going to fetch your old ship to salvage the components out or even repair the ship to full health if its not in bits lol
as for taking your best ship in to Pyro that's the point isn't it?
My new salvage job . Bring back players XX ship form here ! deliver it to 1. his hanger . 2 your hanger . 3 sell it to Brio breakers lol
Absolutely. This would drive other players to want to fill repair roles or towing roles and I think it will be great. Especially when the new service beacons and player missions are implemented.
Been flying the same ship for the past week without losing it as well. This is good, as it will force players to be slightly more careful instead of flying around recklessly abandoning their vessels just to get a cheeky pirate kill on a innocent low tier hauler, or a simple low level bounty hunter. As the risk must be worth some high rewards otherwise it's not worth it.
This will heavily reduce, not eliminate, griefing, ramming, and other nefarious activities where a death is certain, for no reward except for troll satisfaction, which will be highly outweighed by the punishment.
Once functionality is in place (station turrets, armistice zone, and proper protection services) PVP will finally be a high risk, high rewards venture, instead of the chaos it is currently, significantly reducing random acts of violence throughout the verse.
This will be incredible for the game, not just in terms of realism, but even in non pirate situations, we will be more keen to choose the right tool for the job, which will then give each ship more inherent value and increase the variance in a good pilots choices and to then use proper discretion in each individual scenario.
This will also make it extremely valuable to have multiple ships, and a variety of skillsets to fall back on when one inevitably dies.
This will all come into play and work functionally when we have all core systems in place, and server stability, when we get to the beta optimization and full release phase of SC 1.0.
Exciting stuff, and we are just scratching the surface
LOL Just play the Save Stanton contract on a laggy server. The npc lagged in to my ship to times in row. :D
@blasterml I swap servers if I get into one with too much desync, you can also check the server status when you get in by typing r_displayinfo 1 in commands. I stick with servers that have 6 or higher server fps, and don't have trouble with clipping.
I have feelings. And my feeling are telling me that within stories are beloved characters. Some of those characters are not only sentient beings, they are also animals, machines and vehicles. Imagine every time Han Solo walked back to the Milleniam Falcon it was blown to smithereens.. we need to rethink what a ship is and how it should be treated.
Yes, ships right now are constantly getting blown up. In the future, this will likely happen less. Tbh, the number of times I've lost my ship in the last 4 years by another player destroying the ship has probably been a total of 2 times.
All other times have been bugs or simple mistakes on my part.
Things will get better.
@Hav0k I have lost my ship to players only around 6 times. Mostly it's CIG with thier Teabagger NPCs.
Ah once again, CIG is changing their BS after the player base has invested hundreds of millions in this games development. The only fair option is to apply this insurance tier system on all future sales all previously purchased ships would be fully covered. In all honesty the game is becoming too complex, many features that were promised have not been coded into the game. MedBeds on ships don't function, it takes almost a full hour to get my Carrack outfitted since I can't spawn it with the Ground Vehicle and a craft in the hangar plus storage containers. I know CIG thinks its immersive to have to run around to several locations to outfit your ship but it's really it just tedious. Everyone does not have multiple hours to devote to playing SC some of us work long shifts 12-14 hour days and our break from that treadmill is getting online and playing a game for a short time.
Nothing was changed at all actually. This has always been their plan and there's literally no change. They were always intending that ships gave you tier 1 insurance by default for what ever duration. Meaning you only pay the difference in UEC to have higher coverage.
For example if I have LTI, I have tier 1 insurance forever and just pay the difference in UEC in game to have the tier 3 coverage. This has always been their plan since the inception of the game.
I struggle with the Decorations part... It needs to be that you get the component value back, as well as any cargo in the insurance. Though this would need to be taken out per run when you leave the hangar.
Like temporary insurance for the run.
The decorations is something you spent time setting up, and getting your ship back set up how you left it is going to be key.
I think the key is going to be, you get items back that fulfil the criteria of "Insurable"
Tier 1 components and decorations, you just get back. Anything crafted by players is not manufacturer's standard, so is exempt. Components that have been upgraded have their own warranty void, so aren't insurable either.
As much I like your ideas and the way we all hope ship losses will be as we want people to respect loss and I would say 1 Million of us think that way, The other 4 Million will cry over it without a doubt as they want their ship back straight away. I would like to add one to it is that they is only certain amount of stock availiable in the system. Such as for a Capital ship there may only be 4 Idris ships in which can be replaced a Month as it is a Captal ship and quite a large ship. Polaris I would say 20 a month as it is a strike weapon. If you people remember the old game WWII online you only so many troops and amount of certain types of troops before you had to resupply other wise you lost the battle it should be the same here. Hornets being a military ship Maybe 60 a month and so on. Ships people pay real money for I would say for a small ship should be straight away and for a large ship maybe a week so that people hurt for the loss of that ship. Still think 4 Million would cry over it.
I honestly think there is less people than we might think that will truly be affected that much by it. There's tons of popular games where you lose much more and can't even get items back at all that people play a lot: Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Tarkov, etc.
If they do it right I think it'll be fine. Players will undoubtedly have many ships to choose from when the game is out because they'll naturally want to try other ships. Either way, we'll see what it looks like when they bring it into 1.0.
Much appreciated!
My pleasure!
you make a few good points but if you get targeted by a group and get greiffed then what, hows that work with insurance. yep might be low count but if it was you how would you take it. see thats just part of it, and if the server has an issue, you still have to go through the waiting game. i think they should just put all this aside till they really and i mean really think this through. this has to much reall money ridding on that. LTI is going to be what is another question how dose that fit in, and if its not tier 3 then a large goup of people with rebel so lets stop trying to fix something that shouldn't be talking about till this game gets to beta and get the dev's foucing on the hardware and software back end of the game, the 1k ppl per seed is still low for a player count, instead of beta stuff. we all still in alpha so lets get the kinks worked out first. but you do have some good idea's but i can see all the down sides do to there to many loop holes for what is already going on. so deal with that in beta.
That's why I think their ideas with warranties will help. But also, it might also put more benefit on running with a group of people so you don't easily get griefed.
But being griefed in MMOs has always been an issue. It's sadly not something that will go away unless CIG addresses the core of that issue which is kind of a community related issue.
But if you've looked into it, static server meshing is the first step that will progressively add more players as their server configuration get updated. They talked about potentially having 2-5k players with static. Dynamic server meshing could potentially one day have entire regions separated as timezones.
But we'll see
I really hope they don’t go down this road, it’ll just make the game not fun to play as everyone will be too scared to lose things
They cant even get close to these ideas untill they nix the jank from the game. And there are mountains of jank and server issues.
This is true. They'll need to fix the issues. Which of course is the intentions and goals for 1.0
It would be really STUPID to change insurance. It would just oiss off players.
Nothings changing. It's still the original plan that will be implemented later.
Did they say anything about being able to open shops in cities like NB or A18?
No. I imagine shops will be specific to your ship (such as a BMM) or your base.
well if they want to do realism, they should also assign claim adjuster and can approve or deny your claim. imagine being realistic and have your ship lost with insurance and insurance company denies half of the claim and you have to fork out more money out of pocket. Oh boy how real why we want all that in a game?
I like how you reference to other youtubers lik salty mike and I think, its a good idea.
They had some really good ideas. Credit where credit is due.
All well and good but until they make it so there's no more hard crashes (yeah good luck) then this will continue to be a contentious issue.
True. But i think they're going to have to allow people to hit objects somewhat but not completely destroy your ship
I can see where this is all going. Pay real money for consequences within the virtual world. A never ending revenue source for CIG....
I like the suggestions.
Glad you liked the video & suggestions!
I disagree entirely. This would only work if they change the flight model again. The current flight model just leaves every pilot too vulnerable in combat, as the arcade shooter style leaves you without the ability to dodge or express any high level of skill in amy situation beyond a 1v1, and even then it's not great.
It wouldn't track to introduce that arcade mechanic and the increased risk of death, and then also want that hyper realistic punishing element alongside it.
SC needs a solid player reputation system and FLAWLESS game function, otherwise the entire insurance system will be a nightmare.
Just wanna say good luck to SC players with their precious ships when CIG implements more and more realistic insurances with little to no improvement in the current state of the game...
ideas are solid but there's one big problem: game stability. the most dangerous part of the game is the game itself. i wouldnt want to see any of these harsh penalties added to the game until after they manage to make the game stable.
This all hinges on 1.0 when the game is more stable. They likely won't add it until that point
CIG needs to offer a non-hardcore PvE option (and solo/private servers, of course).
MANY of us do not want to be playing Second-Life: Space Edition.
The way the game is going right now is tailored for basement-dwellers with no lives.
This is going to a wild ride as CIG patches the bugs and tries to balance the non consensual pvp mechanics that result in ship loss. Has an mmo ever done this successfully without alienating some of the player base? Let alone in star citizen which they said on stage is trying to appeal to everyone.
To my knowledge, no other company has done an insurance mechanic other than Tarkov and Tarkov copycats.
Honestly I don't see insurance as being too overly complex, but it will definitely hurt to lose ships. Tarkov does this similarly as well with weapons and gear. There's a real tangible sense of loss and worry if you die.
I think it could work and be successful if they are sure to balance it.
13:03 a little misspelling there.
Thanks for covering it and then some. really nice to see your opinion.
I do hope in the future, the next tiers of insurance/warranty are actually cheap. sure you can get some LTI but like I said before, fully decked out ships+ weapons stored aren't cheap in game. It would make you more careful but its already tedious as is with the waiting.
Big derp moment on my part lol. 😅
CIG has mentioned that usually you'd be able to pay for a month of insurance fees after a couple hours of play time. Which isn't too bad. But there needs to be real cost to the loss of a ship.
its 3 tiers of warranty
As far as I've checked, 3 tiers of insurance. Warranty is a straight replacement ship and that's it.
Here's a quick down and dirty visual guide.
www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1gjdenl/insurance_warranty_on_star_citizen/?rdt=37184
insurance tier 1 is already there...
I dont think they will make EXTREMELY expensive insurances for ships man..
And maybe if it is it will be maybe 100-150k per month..
No point on speculating this now..
All insurance, without warranty, pays cash for your ship, it doesn't give you a ship back.
Except if you pay real world money you get a warranty by default. So you always get your ship back
@Hav0k Only for ships you paid for with real money. If you bought the ship in game, there is no warranty (except in rare circumstances).
@@BetterThanLifeProd that's what I said 😃
@Hav0k The video does not. The video says you get your ship and components/decorations back at the higher levels of insurance. That is only the case with ships with warranties, which generally, means real life purchased ships.
@BetterThanLifeProd @ 02:45
"If you purchase a ship through the pledge store with real-world money, or if you’ve earned and applied a transferable warranty in-game your ship will always remain on your account even if it's destroyed without insurance. It's recoverable, but there's a catch..."
It most certainly does.
Is LTI going to be tier 1 insurance?
Supposedly some people are saying Jared confirmed it's Tier 3
@Hav0k nice 😁
If I want a "real life" experience, I don't need to play a game. When CIG makes this unfun, people won't play it. Plain and simple.
It isn't and has never been about getting shot down. Its invisible asteroids/doors or me falling out of my ship at qt or it just mf explodes in my hanger because one green bottle under the landing gear.
I like this game, but I want to log in and shoot stuff for an hour or two. If I have to pay for insurance to not lose everything to yet another ridiculous bug, i'm out.
I don’t know about this. I think there are limits. Too much of theses might make people pass
I don't think it'll really hurt as badly as others might think
How are they going to convert LTIs?
They're not changing anything in regards to LTI's. They'll remain so that no back who has LTI will have to pay the basic Tier 1 insurance in game.
@@Hav0k So LTIs will equate to Tier 1?
Correct. If you want additional protection for components and what not you you'll have to pay extra for it in game
Massive claim tomes only to loose your ship to a bug or a2 bomber/speedy kamakazi randomly makes no sense.
While it is sound in theory, in practice it is not going to work. SC is not RL, in RL your car doesn't randomly glitch out and explode daily.
I may as well play Spacebourne 2......
You should. I support those who want to play whatever game they want. Even if you want to play more than one game. It's great to have options and living in a world where there's tons of them.
i hope 1.0 is before 2028, optimistic i know..
I'm a bit more optimistic than you are 😆 😅
But I'd be okay with 2028 as well
At first I really hated the new system. I paid real dollars for my ship therfore gimme ship. But after diving into these new changes I think I'm really going to be able to enjoy the game more. More game loops, "pirates" will really need to think twice about griefing, and having the ability to go recover my own ship when I snack a rock because I wasn't paying attention sounds like fun.
I think that things won't be as painful in the future once we're actually at that 1.0 stage. But I'd say that accidently hitting something shouldn't damage your ship as much as it does now. Hopefully they address that.
This sounds great until lag causes you to fly into a building....
CIG employ him now!
They should def not add any kind of insurance mechanic until the game is polished and "finished" 99.99% of my ship losses are from glitches lol
Of course not. This is much further down the road that we're talking. But it is a test environment that would benefit from them testing it before it's actually released however.
How did you get the music?
Which part? I used quite a bit of different pieces 😄
@@Hav0k The first one, the UEE Hymn
It was just a basic audio filter to remove the sound effects. You can find it on youtube as well
The problem is that there is such a thing as too immersive. The problem with this is at what point does this stop being a game and start becoming a damn virtual life generator?
Like I get home after a long day, and I want to sit down and enjoy a video game. Not do goddamn chores and stress about shit like insurance. I already do that in real life
they better fucking fix the servers first, because they should not even think about having losing ships being a major detriment, if the servers are the reason, you lose the ship
This will kill this game. Just leave it the way it is.
As cool as all of this sounds how about they fix their servers and hangars that eat ships before they even think about rolling this out.
I dont think I agree with this. I think you should pay for a bit but nobody is going to have the time nor people to constantly gain millions and millions by yourself. Thats way too much. I would think maybe around 40-100k would be fine but still you lose something thats way more than what its worth every single time. You wouldnt want to work like a dog in a game when you work like hell to pay for a ship you love. I think every ship should have a insurance function. Have a way to not need to slave to play. I think it should be timer based so you cant spam your ship and instead if you dont have the money to make it faster you simply join a crew so it enables people with multicrews to actually crew them. Then you dont need to worry too hard to worry your shit is just gone.
I feel like real money purchased ships should have lvl 1 everything it's real money I'd hate to have a money wipe have a bug then boop I'm miles away from flying my capital ship, I don't like it. Sure it's great until you mess with the stuff I paid for