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Every time I see you upload one of your videos, I give a like before I even watch it. It's always a pleasure to watch your reviews. And the pictures of gunpowder give me life.
Thanks for a short but sweet video :) I've been looking into this lens since watching your RD1 video. How does the 35mm focal length with the crop factor suit the RD1 frame lines, did you get a reasonably accurate idea of what will be in shot?
Just wanted to give a shout-out to a fellow R-D 1 owner/user! This lens looks like a good choice as a "normal" for the R-D 1... if you're a Sonnar fan, which I am...
Do you know if the 35mm f2 for Fuji-X Mount at $179 US (vs $288 for M Mount) is the same lens Internally? Difference being non-coupled for rangefinder and closer minimum focus distance.
Interesting video Mattias (as usual). Would like to know if the 50mm f1,1 is sharper than the 35mm f2. I am interested particularly at f2 and f2,8. Many thanks.
Grymma videos du gör, Mattias! Har du funderat på att göra några på svenska, eller finns det ingen publik tror du? Älskar sättet du filmar på och grymma foton. Du håller till i Stockholm, ser jag. Kör mest analogt Leica M4 själv.
Thank you so much for your thoughts! I'm now contemplating an M8! This 7artisans might be the 1st lens step. 1.Do you think that the Voigtländer Nokton 35mm f1.4 classic represents a logical step further from this 7artisans? 2. The image quality is much better in the Voightleander at 550€ (new)? 3. Where can i find this 7artisan here in Europe to avoid customs charges? 4. bonus question: what should i look when buying second hand M8, any kind of known issues with shutter, sensor, focus system etc????
Fernando Salema Casimiro The 35mm f1.4 is nice but might focus shift. If a 7artisans does its an easy fix at home. I recommend the 7artisans 50mm as a first lens for the M8. You can buy them in Europe on ebay.
Remember that a 50mm on a Leica M8 and the 1,33 crop sensor will record an image with a field of view as a 66,5mm on FF. So on my Leica M8 my 50mm lenses become more short tele / portrait lenses for me. I prefer a 28mm og 35mm on a Leica M8. The framelines are also nicer for these two focal lengths. Just remeber to multiply by 1,33 to understand what the sensor will see... :-)
There are literally hours of video and kilometers of written reviews covering those questions, my friend. The Nokton 35mm F1.4 is nice on the M8 because the sensor croppes out most of the severe barrell distoriton and vignetting of the lens. It cannot salvage the nervous bokeh, though. I would personally get a multicoated one (MC). And all sorts of things can (and will eventually) go wrong with an M8: the shutter on the M8 (not M8.2) is prone to problems, the screen will get coffee stain eventually, and all M8s are vulnerable in their connection of the screen to the tech inside the camera - which Leica can not fix anymore if it fails. If you buy one that has never been serviced, chances are that it will need service and rangefinder adjustment in Leica, Germany, too. Buy as good an M8 or M8.2 that you can find, and enjoy it while it lasts. Or find an M9 with the sensor already changed. More expensive, but full frame and more likely to last longer... :-)
Great review as usual! Did you use the same close up adapter on the 7artisan 50mm f1.1 on the xt20 as well? Mind share me the link for it so I can grab one as well.
Hmmm, lenses are awesome. All of them. That's why I have more then I have ever used. I have only shot stills with my Sony RX100 and that is a fixed lens. For video I have had some fun adapting the old glass I have to my Blackmagic Pocket; but I have yet to shoot narratives. On the one hand I am glad about not having to worry about upgrading lenses or putting money towards new gear. So I can focus on shooting and learning the art. On the other hand I would love to try all kinds of lenses and experiment... Stills with long exposure offer are more versatile then video. I am dreaming and planning a darkroom right now to at least shoot a roll of film with all the cameras and lenses I got so far. And also fit the darkroom with drying racks, larger tanks or trays for plates and sheetfilm. And all the alternative processes to print your negatives.
I use a Voigtlander 35mm Color Skopar M-mount on my Fuji X and I LOVE having a close-focus adapter. Add an LTM-M and you got M39 screwmount covered too.
how does this lens performs against sun bright, for lens flaring in Leica M or maybe fuji x, cause im using both. does this lens has rounded lens flare? I'm using canon 35mm f1.8 LTM for 35mm in my m240, should i get this little lenses??? actually for 7artisans 50mm f1.1 i had, its performs great for leica shooter, also mirrorless like fujifilm X cameras, also the crazy bokeh comes from that lens.
+Christian Leonardi I haven't noticed much flares at all. I liked my Canon 35 LTM a lot. It has a nice character. The 7artisans is "cleaner" if that makes sense.
Mattias Burling what do you mean about 'cleaner' ? Well, for 35mm f1.8 ltm i think mine is not a good copy, because when its facing harsh light, its create like a fog or something in the center. I just realized when i shooting yesterday. Does your lens had the same issue?
Very interesting review! I liked your images with the A7 + 50mm 1.1 best. The 35mm is a 50mm 2.8 on the Fuji, a bit slow. How are the sunstars on both of these lenses?
It’s a bit of a specialty lens on a 35mm format camera-more consistent across the frame with smaller sensors-but I’ve been very impressed with how good it is at close range. 3m and closer. That’s how I’ve been mostly using it.
Hey Mattias, Can I ask an off topic question. Out of all the cameras you have used so far, which one has the best colors straight out of the camera? Please don't say Leica bc I can't afford one with those prices. Thanks
I don’t know if a Sigmas are just a lot cheaper where you are or what, but I I’ve been looking for a DP for a while and the absolute cheapest I’ve found was just under 200$. P.S. I loved your video on them, just going to keep looking for a better deal
Hey Mattias , I've been looking for a budget lens for my Sony A6000 , and something got my attention the 7artisans 55mm f1.4 , could you tell me if it a decent manual lens or I should just save and get something else?
I have it . Very good center sharpness but not great for landscape with the A7iii looking at 100% size image. This 35mm 7Art seems having the same optical formula as the Zeiss M C Biogon T* 35mm f2.8. Compare!
Mattias, can you confirm for me is this lens apsc or for full frame? I can't find info anywhere it's very .confusing. I have a Sony A7, and would like a simple full frame manual lens for it that's native FE mount. All the manufacturers say E mount and that's it. Just to confuse everyone. I know you can use apsc lenses, but I don't see the point in buying a full frame camera to then have it crop in and become an apsc camera.
Hasan Ali its not rangefinder coupled so little to no interest for me. Not a Sonnar lens either. There are plenty of affordable, native 35mm for most systems. But I will review a cheap manual lens for Fuji soon.
Can you review the panasonic gf2? They only cost 90 dollars on ebay, and they have a 12 mega pixel sensor and can shoot 1080p video. You've been recently reviewing expensive gears. So please give the budget oriented audiences a recommendation. Love your videos❤
Better of buying a GM1. They cost just as little. I use mine all the time. This video for example was shot on it (most of my videos are). I have two cheap and one "cheap" camera reviews coming up soon. Will be another lens as well as some other stuff in between. Unfortunately a camera review takes a minimum of one month to make so I have to be quite selective.
Thank you so much for replying to my comment, though I'm gonna stick to a gf2. Since in China You can buy them for less than 50 dollars: 2.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2007.1000337.0.0.397826dbXYAdJl&id=569846680207&from=list&similarUrl= And on ebay, the GM1 costs around 250 dollars.
Ben Sutton they are sitting on classifieds for ever. They where $100 brand new just before going of the market here. Same thing happens with all Panasonics here.
With a focal reducer adapter like the Zhongi it brings it back to 35mm full frame equivalent and gives it an extra stop of light which is like a 1.4 then...and then consider that wonderful Nikon glass...
Nice video, but personally I think that you shouldn't distract viewers with images from the 50 mm. It's kind of misleading somehow. But still, great job over here.
Mattias Burling I won't be lying if I said I went back and saw ending of atleast 10 videos just to hear you say " until next time, ghodhbaaye " haha. Keep up the enthusiasm man. Also love your videos and big fan.
My experience: Any other glas than Leica glas on a M-Body doesn´t make sense. The results you get, you can take any other camera. You don´t get the look, you get with Leica lenses. The images look flat.
Thats not at all true in my experience. BTW, what other digital range finders besides the R-D1 even exists? To my knowledge there aren't any... would gladly be proven wrong.
Maybe I was misunderstood. I think, the look is independent if its a real rangefinder or any other APS-C camera. Rangefinderstyle you have the Fujis.... But not to get me wrong, I just ordered last week a Mitakon 35mm f0.95 for my Fuji. I´m really looking forward, how this lens is delivering. My experience with e.g. a Voigtlaender on a M10 is, that it doesn´t give you the same results than a Leica lenses. On the other hand, you can use Leica glas on a A7 and it works by 85-90% like on a M10.
Matthias Falkenberg But Fuji and Sony don't make rangefinders. So the whole thing is moot... Btw, real Leica lenses on Fuji is an awful waste since the X mount needs software correction.
I don´t shoot my Leica glas on Fuji. On my Fuji I shoot different older glas like Helios, Jupiter, Mir, .... So, just to understand. A X-Pro1 or two is not a rangefinder?
Find used cameras at MPB and support the channel by using the affiliate links:
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Every time I see you upload one of your videos, I give a like before I even watch it. It's always a pleasure to watch your reviews. And the pictures of gunpowder give me life.
the quality of this lens suprises me over and over!
thanks for sharing this with us!
really enjoyed watching this!
Couldn't agree more. Ich do have both, the 50 and the 35. Excellent choice for M shooters and mirrorless fans.
Great short to-the-point review of a lens that I also own and enjoy!
Thanks for a short but sweet video :) I've been looking into this lens since watching your RD1 video. How does the 35mm focal length with the crop factor suit the RD1 frame lines, did you get a reasonably accurate idea of what will be in shot?
Jon Day The RD1 has an excellent viewfinder so its no issue. Crop factor doesn't affect frame lines and the magnification is just right for 35mm imo.
I have been shooting the canon 35mm f/2 LTM for a while with a close focus helicoid. Completely serviceable and compact.
のぢGrey I had the f1.8 version. Nice lens as well.
Just wanted to give a shout-out to a fellow R-D 1 owner/user! This lens looks like a good choice as a "normal" for the R-D 1... if you're a Sonnar fan, which I am...
Do you know if the 35mm f2 for Fuji-X Mount at $179 US (vs $288 for M Mount) is the same lens Internally? Difference being non-coupled for rangefinder and closer minimum focus distance.
I know I'm supposed to focus on the lens but that dog is mad cute
Interesting video Mattias (as usual). Would like to know if the 50mm f1,1 is sharper than the 35mm f2. I am interested particularly at f2 and f2,8. Many thanks.
Yes, the 50mm is noticably sharper.
Grymma videos du gör, Mattias!
Har du funderat på att göra några på svenska, eller finns det ingen publik tror du?
Älskar sättet du filmar på och grymma foton. Du håller till i Stockholm, ser jag.
Kör mest analogt Leica M4 själv.
I hope your upcoming video is a review of the 7artisans 25 1.8. I've been so curious about that lens.
Nicholas Erwin Its not. But its a close guess.
Thank you so much for your thoughts! I'm now contemplating an M8! This 7artisans might be the 1st lens step.
1.Do you think that the Voigtländer Nokton 35mm f1.4 classic represents a logical step further from this 7artisans?
2. The image quality is much better in the Voightleander at 550€ (new)?
3. Where can i find this 7artisan here in Europe to avoid customs charges?
4. bonus question: what should i look when buying second hand M8, any kind of known issues with shutter, sensor, focus system etc????
Fernando Salema Casimiro The 35mm f1.4 is nice but might focus shift. If a 7artisans does its an easy fix at home.
I recommend the 7artisans 50mm as a first lens for the M8.
You can buy them in Europe on ebay.
Thank you for your time to make these great thoughtful and beautiful videos and replying to our questions!
Remember that a 50mm on a Leica M8 and the 1,33 crop sensor will record an image with a field of view as a 66,5mm on FF. So on my Leica M8 my 50mm lenses become more short tele / portrait lenses for me. I prefer a 28mm og 35mm on a Leica M8. The framelines are also nicer for these two focal lengths. Just remeber to multiply by 1,33 to understand what the sensor will see... :-)
There are literally hours of video and kilometers of written reviews covering those questions, my friend. The Nokton 35mm F1.4 is nice on the M8 because the sensor croppes out most of the severe barrell distoriton and vignetting of the lens. It cannot salvage the nervous bokeh, though. I would personally get a multicoated one (MC). And all sorts of things can (and will eventually) go wrong with an M8: the shutter on the M8 (not M8.2) is prone to problems, the screen will get coffee stain eventually, and all M8s are vulnerable in their connection of the screen to the tech inside the camera - which Leica can not fix anymore if it fails. If you buy one that has never been serviced, chances are that it will need service and rangefinder adjustment in Leica, Germany, too. Buy as good an M8 or M8.2 that you can find, and enjoy it while it lasts. Or find an M9 with the sensor already changed. More expensive, but full frame and more likely to last longer... :-)
If I didn’t already have the great Voigtlander 35 f1.2, I’d probably be interested in this lens.
Great review as usual! Did you use the same close up adapter on the 7artisan 50mm f1.1 on the xt20 as well? Mind share me the link for it so I can grab one as well.
alpha512 yes, I use for minolta, m42 etc as well with a second adapter. They can be found on ebay.
Mattias Burling Thanks, will check it out!
Hmmm, lenses are awesome. All of them. That's why I have more then I have ever used.
I have only shot stills with my Sony RX100 and that is a fixed lens.
For video I have had some fun adapting the old glass I have to my Blackmagic Pocket; but I have yet to shoot narratives.
On the one hand I am glad about not having to worry about upgrading lenses or putting money towards new gear. So I can focus on shooting and learning the art.
On the other hand I would love to try all kinds of lenses and experiment... Stills with long exposure offer are more versatile then video.
I am dreaming and planning a darkroom right now to at least shoot a roll of film with all the cameras and lenses I got so far. And also fit the darkroom with drying racks, larger tanks or trays for plates and sheetfilm.
And all the alternative processes to print your negatives.
Hey any opinions on the low light performance of this lens? The 1.1 might be a bit much. Looking to use this on a Leica M4 thank you!
Don't you have a lens today you can set to f2 and compare?
amazing videos Mattias!! can you make a video about leica t and the 7 artisans 1.1? xD
Love that dog
I use a Voigtlander 35mm Color Skopar M-mount on my Fuji X and I LOVE having a close-focus adapter. Add an LTM-M and you got M39 screwmount covered too.
Micaiah von Walter if you have some M42 lens buy an M42-LM adapter too.
You can ad Minolta as well as many others to the close focus adapter.
I do! Including the little Industar-22 which only focuses about a 2'
This vídeo was too short, I demand another!
Enjoy your reviews. Any chance of a Film camera update for 2019 2020. Looking into Folding camera
I picked up the Sony E mount version of this lens, fantastic lens for the money. Nice video.
how does this lens performs against sun bright, for lens flaring in Leica M or maybe fuji x, cause im using both.
does this lens has rounded lens flare?
I'm using canon 35mm f1.8 LTM for 35mm in my m240, should i get this little lenses??? actually for 7artisans 50mm f1.1 i had, its performs great for leica shooter, also mirrorless like fujifilm X cameras, also the crazy bokeh comes from that lens.
+Christian Leonardi I haven't noticed much flares at all. I liked my Canon 35 LTM a lot. It has a nice character. The 7artisans is "cleaner" if that makes sense.
Mattias Burling what do you mean about 'cleaner' ? Well, for 35mm f1.8 ltm i think mine is not a good copy, because when its facing harsh light, its create like a fog or something in the center. I just realized when i shooting yesterday. Does your lens had the same issue?
Christian Leonardi No, thats one way its cleaner.
Good stuff! Got a link for that close focus adapter you were using? :)
anaglog77 I buy my Kipon stuff on eBay.
Very interesting review!
I liked your images with the A7 + 50mm 1.1 best.
The 35mm is a 50mm 2.8 on the Fuji, a bit slow.
How are the sunstars on both of these lenses?
Its still f2 on the Fuji.
It’s a bit of a specialty lens on a 35mm format camera-more consistent across the frame with smaller sensors-but I’ve been very impressed with how good it is at close range. 3m and closer. That’s how I’ve been mostly using it.
Lovely Camera!
Hey Mattias, Can I ask an off topic question. Out of all the cameras you have used so far, which one has the best colors straight out of the camera? Please don't say Leica bc I can't afford one with those prices. Thanks
Chi Auyeung Leica, Sigma and the Nikon DF.
A Leica is cheaper than the €1200 DF but Sigmas surface for as little as €50 on a good day. Mine was $28.
Mattias Burling you are talking about the Leica T, right?
I don’t know if a Sigmas are just a lot cheaper where you are or what, but I I’ve been looking for a DP for a while and the absolute cheapest I’ve found was just under 200$.
P.S. I loved your video on them, just going to keep looking for a better deal
Chi Auyeung No the M8. But the T has nice colors as well. All Leicas do.
Mazin Nasir I look on eBay.
Hey Mattias , I've been looking for a budget lens for my Sony A6000 , and something got my attention the 7artisans 55mm f1.4 , could you tell me if it a decent manual lens or I should just save and get something else?
Inteleptu a Minolta 50mm f1.7 Rokkor + adapter is $25 and absolutely awesome.
Mattias Burling Thank you so much for responding to my question I'll see what I can find in term of Minolta in my area (they are quite a rarity here)
Inteleptu ebay.
Mattias Burling i'm not from the states neither the UK so shipping fees are gonna be a problem.
Mattias Burling anyways i still apreciate the time and sugestion thank you!
I have an M2... im considering this. Would you recommend it? even though its film?
There is no difference in my mind if I use a lens for film or digital.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter I was just worried about any adjustments or rather how calibrated it was out of the factory to be ready to shoot.
Did you drop that thing ? The metal mount seems like a big chunk is chipped off hahaha. Anyway love this "quick review" format. More please :-)
NL0Gwenster Nope, didn't drop it and there is no metal missing.
It's not broken it's the leica M bayonet..
Should mention the Kippon adapter is $100+(USD). Excellent adapter, well worth its price and function.
There is a budget one that ships from Hong Kong on ebay for $26 USD shipped. I've been impressed with it.
I have it . Very good center sharpness but not great for landscape with the A7iii looking at 100% size image. This 35mm 7Art seems having the same optical formula as the Zeiss M C Biogon T* 35mm f2.8. Compare!
Carpe Diem Its a classic Sonnar. I agree that it has a lot of character. Not for peepers. The 50mm is sharper.
Carpe Diem it's because the a7 have a thick sensor that caused field curvature on rangefinder lenses
Im a new camera shutter, i want to get a leica T with this len. Can you give me some options?
You can adapt almost any lens to the T.
can someone explain, is the leica M mount lens a different lens design to the fuji and sony one??
Yes, it has a rangefinder coupling.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter is that the only difference (other than the physical appearance as well)?
This or a vintage 35mm lens?
For a rangefinder?
@@gearreallydoesntmatter for adapting on a sony A7iii. Don't have much money for a lens. And above that I want a manual lens.
If its not for a rangefinder this lens doesnt make much sense.
Have you tried the e mount version though?
No, don't see a point to it.
Mattias, can you confirm for me is this lens apsc or for full frame? I can't find info anywhere it's very .confusing. I have a Sony A7, and would like a simple full frame manual lens for it that's native FE mount. All the manufacturers say E mount and that's it. Just to confuse everyone. I know you can use apsc lenses, but I don't see the point in buying a full frame camera to then have it crop in and become an apsc camera.
It's full frame. But not native FE.
Mattias Burling thank you. So it doesn't crop, and I won't need an adapter.
Vet du vart dom säljs i sverige?
Rikard Landberg inte på rak arm. Men jag är rätt säker på att det blir billigare att köpa direkt från tillverkaren på ebay.
Mattias Burling Tack!
What is the meaning of sonar ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeiss_Sonnar
Jag äger denna specifika gluggen idag, köpte den av en som sa att han köpt den av dig. Vart ett spontan köp på plats 😂
Se där!
@@gearreallydoesntmatter kändes kul att plocka upp den, testade ju den nyare varianten från deras Wen seire gillade den väldigt mycket.
pls review the 7artisans 35mm f1.2, this one is for crop sensor but it looks better from what I've seen
Hasan Ali its not rangefinder coupled so little to no interest for me. Not a Sonnar lens either. There are plenty of affordable, native 35mm for most systems.
But I will review a cheap manual lens for Fuji soon.
Can you review the panasonic gf2? They only cost 90 dollars on ebay, and they have a 12 mega pixel sensor and can shoot 1080p video. You've been recently reviewing expensive gears. So please give the budget oriented audiences a recommendation. Love your videos❤
Better of buying a GM1. They cost just as little. I use mine all the time. This video for example was shot on it (most of my videos are).
I have two cheap and one "cheap" camera reviews coming up soon.
Will be another lens as well as some other stuff in between. Unfortunately a camera review takes a minimum of one month to make so I have to be quite selective.
Thank you so much for replying to my comment, though I'm gonna stick to a gf2. Since in China You can buy them for less than 50 dollars: 2.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2007.1000337.0.0.397826dbXYAdJl&id=569846680207&from=list&similarUrl= And on ebay, the GM1 costs around 250 dollars.
I'm a big sandwich same here with the gm1.
Mattias Burling big sandwich or no big sandwich a gm1 for 50whatever sounds unbelievable
Ben Sutton they are sitting on classifieds for ever. They where $100 brand new just before going of the market here. Same thing happens with all Panasonics here.
Love you videos
Can you do comparison between 7artisans 35 /2 and 35/1.2. it will be fun😋
Ravk Sorry, the f1,2 isnt rangefinder coupled so little to no interest for me.
The result of focusing with rangefinder is terrible, with the screen LCD is ok.Can you describe how you adjust it.Thanks
Nab Jom With an LCD you wont get accurate focus with a wide aperture. A rangefinder gets you exact focus. That's why they are so popular.
Has anyone had luck using these lenses on a Canon 6D/5D (using an adapter)?
You can't. If you want to adapt to Canon you should look at m42 and C/Y lenses.
Just 100 euro at AliExpress!!
I thought this lens was for apsc?
I don't think there are any Leica M lenses for APS-C.
It may be okay..but for my Fuji I would rather have my Nikon 35.mm F2 A1 lens with a Zhongyi Focal Reducer adapter anyday.
Jack McKechnie Dont think its rangefinder coupled.
That is true...But on a Fuji it works great...
Im sure it does, but it can never replace the 7artisans..
With a focal reducer adapter like the Zhongi it brings it back to 35mm full frame equivalent and gives it an extra stop of light which is like a 1.4 then...and then consider that wonderful Nikon glass...
Jack McKechnie All great stuff. Still not rangefinder coupled = of no worth in the context of this review.
Nice video, but personally I think that you shouldn't distract viewers with images from the 50 mm. It's kind of misleading somehow. But still, great job over here.
No they where clearly titled.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter Yeah I know, but it kinda feels weird when you see a very nice picture with amzing bokeh and oh it's not the 35 lol.
@@NinKHNightBringer one has to read and listen :)
No no no. You have changed the way you say " Goodbye " . It's lacking at enthusiasm . Earlier you used to say " Ghodhbaaye " . Please stick to that.
Chaitanya Kore I've always done it differently. Its not something I can direct.
Mattias Burling I won't be lying if I said I went back and saw ending of atleast 10 videos just to hear you say " until next time, ghodhbaaye " haha. Keep up the enthusiasm man. Also love your videos and big fan.
just get the SUMMICRON 40mm f2 ;D
Jan Eiberger no thanks.
My experience: Any other glas than Leica glas on a M-Body doesn´t make sense. The results you get, you can take any other camera. You don´t get the look, you get with Leica lenses. The images look flat.
Thats not at all true in my experience. BTW, what other digital range finders besides the R-D1 even exists? To my knowledge there aren't any... would gladly be proven wrong.
Maybe I was misunderstood. I think, the look is independent if its a real rangefinder or any other APS-C camera. Rangefinderstyle you have the Fujis.... But not to get me wrong, I just ordered last week a Mitakon 35mm f0.95 for my Fuji. I´m really looking forward, how this lens is delivering. My experience with e.g. a Voigtlaender on a M10 is, that it doesn´t give you the same results than a Leica lenses. On the other hand, you can use Leica glas on a A7 and it works by 85-90% like on a M10.
Matthias Falkenberg But Fuji and Sony don't make rangefinders. So the whole thing is moot...
Btw, real Leica lenses on Fuji is an awful waste since the X mount needs software correction.
I don´t shoot my Leica glas on Fuji. On my Fuji I shoot different older glas like Helios, Jupiter, Mir, .... So, just to understand. A X-Pro1 or two is not a rangefinder?
Matthias Falkenberg no they are not.