607 BCE and 1914: Why these dates matter to Jehovah's Witnesses (2021 reboot)
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2021
- Since their earliest beginnings, Jehovah's Witnesses have pointed to 1914 as a year of prophetic significance; the culmination of a 2,520 period of "gentile times" beginning in 607 BCE. But do their teachings stand up to scrutiny?
Useful information on Watchtower's 607 BCE chronology...
www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/60...
Essay on VAT 4956 by Ste Richardsson... xjwfriends.com/2018/02/18/ast...
Essays of Carl Olof Jonsson in response to Watchtower's 2011 magazine articles...
www.jwfacts.com/pdf/carl-olof...
www.jwfacts.com/pdf/carl-olof...
#607bce #lastdays
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People think this isn't important, but this simple fact woke me up. I was so floored that the organisation had lied over and over and disfellowshipped anyone who dared try and prove the dates were wrong, it caused the house of cards effect!
I know, Right ? The very fact that they would disfellowship a scholar who merely questioned and pointed out inconsistencies in their doctrine and math shows that there is something very very WRONG about the Org’s leadership! !
Non ce qualcosa di sbagliato e tutto sbagliato perché questi curano la società Watchtower propaga falsamente tutte le dottrine e la storia della Watchtower Americana ci insegna che ha fatto e sta ancora facendo affari con BABILONIA LA GRANDE, ha CAVALCATO la bestia SELVAGGIA di RIVELAZIONE, basta leggere la svegliatevi del 8SETTEMBRE del 1991 per capire che nel 1992 si è associata a l'ONU tramite L'ONG ,fino al 2001 ,appena il giornale INGLESE IL GUARDIANO pubblica la notizia due giorni dopo la Watchtower si è dissociata da L'ONU, che coincidenza strana.
@@ShoNuffSoulBro1They are straight up acting as the bad slave and antichrist at once. Changing thinks in the scripture under the disguise of repairing stuff that was never there is sickening.
This is one of the reasons why they don't want people going to college. A world religion course or world history would tear their doctrine apart.
@@scholarscholar6124 do you acknowledge higher education is firmly discouraged by the ‘Governing Body’ of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
@@scholarscholar6124 So do you agree with them that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 BCE instead of 586/587? If you don't, then what does that say about how academically sound their theology and biblical chronology is, when their entire eschatology is based on an erroneous date?
@@scholarscholar6124 Ok I get it. I looked at your Twitter and Linkedin profiles and it appears you are a Jehovah's Witness. It might be good to disclose that as you're laying out your credentials, so no one will be misled into believing you're an actual Bible scholar who agrees with JW Biblical chronology. Instead they will be aware that you are a Semi Retired- Trade Contractor who in your youth, earned a Master of Arts in Religious studies, something you likely would not have even considered pursuing had you been a baptized JW at the time. Be honest now. Has the Governing Body anointed you as its new top 607 apologist after they kicked out Rolf Furuli for going Apostate?
@@scholarscholar6124 Sir, I too have an academic university background in the Sciences of Religion, Psychology and Philosophy of Religion. I was a member and a Watchtower apologetic for nearly 20 years.
I have two questions for you, if you don’t mind to elaborate just a little.
1. Have you read the book: ‘The Gentile Times Reconsidered’ by Carl Olof Jonsson? 2. Is your study in Bible chronology based on your own and Watchtower’s research, or do you have other outside academic sources from accredited scholars to substantiate your views?
It’s religion in a nutshell
Lloyd, when it comes to research and telling a compelling story.....you are the master! Brilliant, well done 👍😊
Thanks Chris! I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
This was just perfect.
Great, Useful information!
I totally agree. Lloyd does wonders and am addicted to watching how he exposes this delusional cult run by crazy old men who knows nothing about the real world and real history. Keep up the good work Lloyd.
I went to a Christian college where two Bible classes (one for each Testament) was required. The question on what year Jerusalem fell appeared on perhaps 3-4 exams, with of course 586/587 BCE being the correct answer. I thought it was rather interesting, so I decided to ask the professor why the same question kept popping up. He vaguely said, "there is a false school of thought on that. I won't get into it, I just like to drill it home." Lol
Interesting. Who was the Professor, and what is the name of the college please?
Bravo professor!
🙏
BC586 is correct year
“New light” straight from Lloyd’s bunker! That’s what I like😜
Thank you Lloyd.
I just got disassociated. It's painful to be perceived as crazy and evil in the minds of my former friends in the org. Even my sister told me to leave the house and better for me to just commit suicide. She shouted at me and told me that I am an "apostate" with disgust on her face.
Videos like this make me feel better that I am not wrong and I made the right decision.
Thank you so much Lloyd!
You are certainty strong and should stay strong. Disassociated in 2012 for doctrinal reasons and have never regretted.
On the upside, you now get to enjoy being perceived as substantially LESS crazy and evil by the vast majority of humanity...
Wow what an awful response from your sister. Its hard to start thinking differently from years of indoctrination. You can only have sympathy for the ones still blinded, and make a brand new honest life for yourself. I could no longer live a lie and I know the pain that decision makes. You are not alone my friend 🙏
My sister was like yours, bitter, and with a hateful look in her eyes she yelled at me, "You ARE an apostate, and we WILL shun you!"
@@juliajoy16 thank you, your words helped a lot
When they discovered that there was no “Zero” year and 606 was their starting year it SHOULD have made the 2,520 end in 1915. But since 1914 had coincidentally birthed WW1 there was no way to allow the time shift to happen in that direction. A change from 606 to 607 had to be made. This alone should show a current Jw they were “cooking the books” to make the belief seem it had a solid foundation.
1914 - 2520 = 606, Right ? (no Zero year) Why do they insist on 607 then? The math still wouldn’t line up, Right ? ?
@@ShoNuffSoulBro1 I believe pre finding out there was no zero year they claimed it as being 606bce. Then when they discovered there shouldn’t be a zero year they moved the date to 607 BCE to make up for that shifting of years.
Technically the realization of no zero year would have made their ending date change and it should have been moved from 1914 to 1915. But no one said there would be math today so I could be wrong.
The remake of the video that changed my life. This is the first Lloyd video I ever saw, and was I ever relieved to know my feelings as a PIMO were justified.
As a PIMO, since December 2020 I saw the original 607 video and it completely shattered everything. Since then I have been binging Lloyd's content and my mindset just keeps being justified.
@@kammy6340 it was Jan 2020 that I saw the 2015 original video on 607 bce. I knew that it wasn't "the Truth" already before then, but I had no idea so many people felt the same way until that time.
@@motorway2roswell So true. Tbh...the way the organization talks it makes it look like no one ever doubts the veracity of "the truth." I felt so alone having the doubts I have. Felt so bad too cause I felt like I was disappointing God but then I pushed past the fear and looked at "apostate" material and I saw I wasn't the only one.
So glad that you too have escaped the fear and mind control of WT. Keep researching. Try jwfacts.com
@@ready2danceagain it's great to be in such fine company!
You literally made me cry. Thank you for all the effort and work you put into your videos and allowing everyone a safe place to deprogram.
I love the idea of updating these kind of videos. I admire your work schedule.
The Watchtower recently said that they "no longer promote types and anti-types unless the scriptures themselves say there is a greater fulfillment". This effectively destroys their own prophetic understanding of Daniel 4 as there was no greater fulfillment mentioned.
@@djiboutidjango3196 I am surprised Lloyd didn't mention this. However, his video was incredibly concise and clear. It should be sent to every JW.
@@circusserpent9466 as a kid in the early 70s I remember heated debates after the book study about this topic. What a waste of time
👉What a research❗❗❗👏👏👏 congratz from Brazil 🇧🇷
I remember the November 2011 article. Was on my way out when I saw it and my argument was that archeologists had no reason to claim it was 587BCE other than that's what the evidence points to, while JWs had a huge agenda with 607BCE. The elder's response was "so you trust the archaeologists?"
We only trust them when it supports “our” views 😂
Dude, you're a champ. I was birthed into this cult. Took me 16 years or so to figure it out. I still suffer every day from the programming. All I can suggest is to listen to the comedy of Bill Hicks.
@@gladysbarbour1472, your opinion means very little. Embrace free speech.
Bill Hicks and George Carlin are comedians that make me laugh AND think.
@Bottlegate it looks like Gladys Barbour didn’t like the way the conversation went so she deleted her comments so she can pretend it never happened.
It’s the same technique the GB try to use to hide and downplay their failures. Fortunately the internet means they can’t wipe then reauthor their history anymore.
@Bottlegate Just curious, do you now attend any place of worship?
@Bottlegate Hopefully you study the Bible as it is the word of God Almighty.
average J-Dubs can't even explain it. I remember when we would study this type of stuff and half the hall was either listening with eyes glazed over or asleep.
🙋🏻♀️ present!! it’s me, I was glazed over and asleep.
@@WendiRenay hahaha I was right there with ya
Yup right here. Never got it. Now i know why...
Exactly lol
As long as there was an explanation in black and white for them to reference and read verbatim to a non-witness should the subject ever come up (god forbid) they didn't pay attention 😂
@@WendiRenay : Mmm, glazed . . . 😴 🍩 💤
The new book ‘enjoy life’ says nothing about the “generation will not pass away”
Sure, it doesn’t, time is one of their enemy and they have to change the narrative!
Wow!!! Thanks for the intel😍
@@Rupunzelsawake Thank for that observation. Just to be in the same page the Study Bible (2019) when it comes to the footnote for ‘Appointed times’ on Luke 21:24 only states that “a fixed period of time,one having a beginning and an end”. No mention of 607 as a starting date and 1914 as a end date!!. And when it comes to the word ‘Generation’ there is no footnote at all!
@@Rupunzelsawake Appendix B 9 mentions the years 607 and 1914 in a historical context while explaining the Statue of Daniel 2.
In my opinion the last day doctrine won’t go away soon; simple math: no 607=no 1914=no 1919=no faithful and discreet slave=no Governing Body.
What will pass away is the ‘Generation’ doctrine. Don’t be surprise when the new light says that the generation only applied to the first century.
@@Rupunzelsawake Your reasoning about the ‘gen’ makes sense! One answer to your question why the GB changed their views on the ‘gen’ could be that they realized that Jesus used the generation as a measure of length, hence the GB came out with the new light of the ‘overlapping generation’.
Will they return to the old explanation?...just wait what happens in the near future!
I am not easy to convince & impress. I have to admit I am extremely impressed by your video.
I wasn't ready for it to end
CHECKMATE!! BRILLIANT WORK, LLOYD EVANS!!!
I can remember being no older than 10 years old and either being on punishment or not allowed to watch TV or getting slapped for not knowing this mess!! Smh! 🤦🏾♀️
I needed this so badly thank you for the wonderful explanation of these dates!
Lloyd, no amount of thank you will be sufficient. What a true eye opening video. I knew recently that 607 was incorrect, but the way you've presented the compelling evidence against it, I know fully understand. How I wish my family would wake up and watch this. I'm going to share a link on FB publicly, and only hope that one of them watches it.
Thank you for your time and effort in waking us all up 🙏
Using religion to interpret history is like using magic to fix your car.
I love the edit and the music. Tibor is doing a great job!
This was great. Thank you for this. It's incredible that Watchtower for decades put down Catholics and others for their blind faith in believing the Trinity and now expect their followers to use blind faith in accepting the 1914 teaching.
Thank you Lloyd, that was the best explanation of 607 BCE chronology. keep up the good work.
Awesome! If I ever get a chance, I will show this to my dad.
Just the video we need as they’re all currently being taught the lie of 607 in their book study. Truly, food at the proper time.
What is the current book study?
@@leetay9132 the “Pure Worship” book
@@milesverde2439 Wow. Still? I read that a couple of years ago as far as I recall. If they spend 2 years studying that, they're going to see the plot holes.
Meat in due season?
Amazing video Lloyd. I'm so tempted to send on to my JW family. Thank you for all your hard work!
So add twenty years to 1914 gives us 1934. NEW LIGHT! The Great Depression was the return of Christ but in 1914 he did a drive by and picked the Bible Students.
Thank you so much Lloyd. This has always been a difficult topic for me to explain.
The average JW Iv’e asked the question to just goes ah um I’ll have to get back to you on that, and thats the last I ever hear. They simply don’t know much about their belief system at all.
Fantastic video Lloyd , your videos keep getting better and it’s so amazing to watch the progression ! Great job to the editor as well !
I remember the first thing i read about this... on the website All Along the Watchtower by Jan Haugland. Will never forget the part where he mentioned that there was no year 0. I faxed my jw dad the whole thing, it was like 44 pages lol. I remember we used to play table tennis in the basement when i was a kid, once the score was 19-14. He asked me what happened in 1914? I said world war 1... he said it was the establishment of the kingdom. Many years later he admitted to me he never really believed that. Dad died a few weeks ago, still watching jw meetings on zoom, but he had bad dementia and i really don't know how he really felt about JWism. Mom still believes but firmly thinks jehovah will make everything right no matter what, she called me the day i got disfellowshipped to tell me nothing would change. What a strange existence it is having been in this cult. Btw the excuse about 606.. "Provodentially" my butt lol.
Carl Olof... wow another blast from the past
La tua mamma e veramente una donna meravigliosa ,da imitare come esempio del vero amore di Geova .DA L'ITALIA SALUTI E BUONA VITA A TUTTI SECONDO I VOSTRI DESIDERI.
Imagine if we could talk to Welland, Russell and Barbour today. What amazing things they'd have to say.
Imagine THEIR amazement when they learnt that the world still goes on with no divine interventions. Their entire basic belief system was flawed. There was no big apocalyptic event fast coming up.
@@Cenindo very very true
Great production Lloyd. Your videos get better and better. This is the topic that originally began my process of waking up and your prior video and the resources on jwfacts were of great help. Thank you for all the great work you do.
Absolutely fascinating. I knew all these dates but had never put it all together before.
Great knowledge, studying of publications and a way of explaining it.
Fantastic revamp Lloyd! So well produced and brilliantly explained
Who ever edited this video: Great job!
607 was ultimately why I left when I was 19. I phoned Ray Franz after reading Crisis of Conscience who kindly answered all my questions and stated he still had hope the JWs would change. My JW boyfriend stayed in, married a JW, and committed suicide not long after. The theology and concepts of women’s
roles were so sticky they stayed with me while I ended up in a domestic violence Christian marriage, and until just recently I realized I didn’t need to suffer to please Yahweh. But my pain helps me empathize with other victims of this and other bullies, lies and liars in the world
You've been through a lot. I hope you're doing great now
Well done! Thank you Lloyd and extend gratitude to your team at the Lloyd Evans channel.
Thanks for the updated video, Lloyd, it is nice to hear Mark as well.
Mark definitely gets a "G" for his bible reading. 😂
Excellent presentation and information!
Thank you so much for your time in putting it together... thanks 🙏🏻 😊
Fantastic video Lloyd. I read The Gentile Times Reconsidered and The Sign of the Last Days -When? After CoC.
They changed my life!
Your summary of the research in the first work is an admirable piece of teaching. You are a gifted communicator and an academic without a degree. Maybe you should change this- you are already there in any case.😀
Thank you. This was perfect!
This was soooo helpful Lloyd. Never understood the date even when I was in but this is extremely well done. Thank you.
Daammn..I don't even know what to say to you Lloyd....this is brilliant 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
Well done Lloyd...another great video! Thanks for all you do !
Excellent, in full nerd mode now. 👌
“He came, and the evidence satisfied me”… I think think he was talking about the revelation climax book before it was a thing…
There is much THAT’S WHAT SHE SAID in this comment, I can’t handle it.
@@WendiRenay 🤣
🤣🤣
Very thorough and well done, you hit all the major points! You can good down a major rabbit hole on this topic!
Thanks as always for the excellent content and format. Your work for our ex-JW community is greatly appreciated. Your channel has been cathartic for me personally. Thank you!
Great video and editing, excellent conclusion with a positive message for those who have just had the rug ripped out from underneath them. Keep up the great work!
Wow I just watched the original video the other day. It is so reassuring to see more concrete information and to learn about another Ray Franz lol
This was incredibly well done, Lloyd! Thank you!
I've read Jonsson's book, but I really appreciate all the time and effort that went into this excellent video. Thanks Lloyd!
Interesting cause the special pioneer i discussed in great detail 607,when the arguments dried up he told me "but why does it matter if it is 1914 or 1919 or 1925?". My jaw dropped. Thanks Lloyd for this video, I was wondering if I am crazy or I remember wrong the importance of 607&1914. Great job as usual Lloyd!
Mark O’Donnell has a great Bible reading voice. Well done both of you guys
I'm not a JW and never was, I just found this channel by accident and stayed out of curiosity.
I rarely ever comment on youtube, but this is one of your best videos! Highly informative, very educational, presented in an entertaining way, I just wanted to say: Well done, Lloyd! Thank you! You put a lot of effort into this and it was totally worth it.
Thanks so much Robert!
Your tone is absolutely hilarious as it has a splash of sarcasm and it puts a smile on me lol
What an excellent overview of a hotly debated topic. Thank you for the hard earnest efforts in making this simple and clear for all Lloyd. 😊
Really enjoyed the content and presentation of this video, and would be happy to see more like it in the future.
Brilliantly done Lloyd and team 😀
I think this has been my most favorite video ever! So much hard work was put into this plus, I loved the positive message at the end. Wow this was amazing, and I have watched every video Lloyd has posted.
Thanks Lloyd I had over 40 years of this indoctrination. Your simple and hard hitting video is simply brilliant!!
Well done, Barry. I'm sure that it was not easy for you.
Awesome. I specially enjoyed the conclusion this time. Ending on a very positive note. Good work!
The opening is hilarious to me. Awesome video! Thank you for doing this work for us :D
I doubt one in a hundred JW's could adequately explain how they arrive at 1914 today let alone the history of the subject. They just go on what they are told. The days of having to "explain" and "prove" the doctrine to their bible studies as basics of "the truth" are long gone.
Watchtower is a dumbed down version of itself now. Presentation over substance.
This is the best you ever did Lloyd. Perfect. Love the pictures of clay tablets etc. Love it. Well done.
Thank you so much for this compelling and masterful production. I can only imagine the time and effort required to create this excellent video. Thank you so much for everything you do and I intend to begin monthly support for your efforts. Best Wishes!
Thanks so much Christopher! I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you Lloyd for your effort . Well done.
This is one of the best vid I've watched from you. Explanation was on point. You took ur time and I've learnt a lot. Kuods.
Great job. And I like the John Redwood cameo doing voice over work.
Hi there sister how are you doing ❤️
Great job, Lloyd. Bravo!
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank you Lloyd.
I really appreciate your choice on how to end this video.
Interesting video; very informative. Thank you Lloyd 🙂
Job well done Lloyd smh I’m so glad you did a recent video despite you breaking this subject down in the past ever so wonderfully. Thank you for your time
A wrecking ball of a video. Fantastic work mate!👍
2021 reboot makes sense they are forever changing with the "new light" .
Love the professionalism bud.
This is fantastic. Thank you for putting it in a way we can all understand. If there is just one video I would share with someone, it would be this one. Totally debunks the whole teachings of JW's
Excellent work Loyd... I so enjoyed this. Trying to figure out how to approach my POMI daughter with this critical info. Thank you
Missed the ending yesterday so now wanna say....WOW, BUDDY💪💪❤❤
I did these calculations myself last week. Very tough work especially with how different the calendars were back then but I managed to arrive at the accurate years and even debunk WT 2011 articles
I can't wait for this update
Edit: Now that I've watched the video I must say I was not disappointed at all. Thank you for your thorough debunking of this 607 BCE/1914 CE claim Lloyd!
These were key dates for my faith that Armageddon was coming soon. Your previous video, and digging into the dates via peer reviewed data showed 607 BCE as wrong. All my faith and it’s bedrock was gone in a flash.
Lloyd, BRAVO…this is the best explanation I have ever heard about JW’s 607 and 1914. If any JW out there doesn’t get it with this one.. something is definitely wrong. They have no answers every time I bring this up.
They claim that they could answer any biblical question using the Bible with anyone. But once someone ask the right question.. and they don’t know how to answer. The solution is to avoid the knowledgeable individual. Guys, Lloyd just did the research for you and it couldn’t be any more clear that this. Oh and he used your alter Bible. Wake up.
Good job, as always, Lloyd! I was wondering about this date I particular the other day as I was reading Tyndale Publications on various bible books (specifically, Jeremiah). PS: Did you count any time for this presentation?
'Generally embarrassing himself' had me chortling and choking on a dumpling in bed. Please do a video on the rest of Daniel 4 on the 70 weeks or whatever bc Witnesses use this to say that the prophecy had a 2nd fulfillment
Fantastic video, the original video of this was the first 'apostate' video I allowed myself to watch, and this updated version has a great look and feel to it, and still the same great content, no new light haha
Great! Another one bites the dust!
Excellent summary. Thank you.
So much earnest human speculation has gone into Bible passages - especially those that reek of symbolism - that one wonders how“Holy Spirit” could ever be called upon in claims of guiding interpretation.
Chuck Russell was a master magpie, picking up a bit here and a bit there, putting them together in some weird mash and then claiming he and his group have been blessed with true light. Here we are in 2021 and all I can say to these fixated borrowers of failed prophecies is, “Balderdash!”
BTW Lloyd: a superbly presented backgrounder video with some eye-catching graphics and concise evidence-based reasoning. You are at they top of your game! Brilliant.
I really appreciate you Lloyd! Thanks so much! Just out of curiosity are you gonna release a video like this on the cry of peace and security? That triggers friends of mine and myself the most... Any info on that helps alot. Thanks friend :)
One of the best tablets that crushes Watchtower chronology is the BM 38462 tablet also known as LBAT 1420. Located in the British Museum. It contains a set of 29 years of annual eclipses from Nebuchadnezzar's reign from year 1 to year 29. It has the month and each year of his reign when each eclipse occurred. So this unique 29 year eclipse set cannot be budged by a year, much less the 20 years Watchtower tries to move it by. Astronomers were able to pinpoint the exact year of Nebuchadnezzar's 1st year all the way to his 29th year. The tablet has recorded the eclipse from 588 that Watchtower says happened in Neb's 37 year. The tablet recorded that eclipse occurring in Neb' s 17th year! Which proves that his 19 year was 586!
PERFECT presentation.
Concise, accurate, dutifully researched and methodically laid out.
Far better than the ‘we are (unquantifiable & falsifiable) god’s voice so you must take what we tell you’ despite numerous inaccuracies based on a shady past jw historical pseudoscience.
This is excellent information Lloyd. I have tried to get my wife and kids to understand this and why the wrong date of 607 BCE being wrong. They act like it's no big deal. Oh well, maybe one day they will. Thanks again man.
Thanks Lloyd for this reboot. Well done!
But for JW your very good points at 1:48 should be emphasize more or repeted at the end of the video!
The huge impact this false numbers have, because there are wrong, this must be emphasize more!!!
Lloyd, you are correct as always. Don`t stop your work.
Thank you Lloyd...also really like Mark O' narration, well done.
I always think that's Tony Morris for some reason
Thank you. This video is concise and truly exciting for me personally. Firstly, I had little interest in babylon's time keeping due to their "astrological" ties strongly implicated by Watchtower publications, but now I'm interested in their astronomical understanding. Second, the background music reminds me of Age of Empires games by Microsoft lol. All in all, I really appreciate the research and info you provide here. Thank you, "you are a scholar and a gentleman"
Thank you Lloyd even though am not a jehova witness you presentation are way better than the way witnesses have trying to explain or tell me to look it up on JW.borg... Thank you for all the work y'all doing.
👋 👋 Howzit Lloyd.
I wasn't aware the depth of deceit of re-legions. I'm grateful to have abandoned all re-legion, it's awful on our psyche.
Thank you, this was informative, and make me dig my heels in deeper, against re-legion.
Great video, the original definitely helped me wake up a few years ago