You’re absolutely right. Quite alot has changed in the market and to Oris’s range, which has shrunk; eg Artix, Chronoris, have disappeared, other ranges have been reduced or totally stagnated eg Artelier. What remains, whilst very nice, somehow doesn’t have the ‘ooooo’ factor, or the finessed price point it once had. The rise of some excellent, more dynamic, microbrands (eg CW, Farer, Formex, Monta, etc.) has also sucked bandwidth away from Oris, and the volume of, and choice from, competitors has not been this voluminous for five or six decades. Oris is being squeezed from above (more brand hype) and from below (better value and designs). Having said that, if what I hear is correct and sales for many big brands are properly tanking, the hype bubble is deflating rapidly. That is both an opportunity and a threat to Oris. What’s happening to *its* sales atm? 🤔 Being part of a big group is no gaurantee of success; consider Blancpain, Breguet, Baume & Mercier, even JLC is not doing that well. Big groups seemingly focus R&D and marketing resources on the brands that already have the highest profiles. For me Oris needs to regain its surprise-and-delight. But then again, we are the watch community and only a very small part of the market. Perhaps its conservative approach is necessary for survival.
Microbrands have definitely been disruptive to the industry. I never buy 'name' brands - the microbrand space has so many cooler, original, innovative, and better value watches.
Your "squeezing" analogy is spot-on and you sum it up better than I ever could. For a brand like Oris to offer "more for less", maybe looking over a brand like Tudor's or CW's shoulder to see how they run their models could also help. Man, they have potential here, more potential than the already perceived "luxury" brands who are charging ludicrous prices for pieces. Oris could rekindle that mid-tier spirit now with their in-house cals on display and more dynamic designs (maybe returning to their old roots) Excellently said here man 🥃
Its funny how just a few years ago, all the reviewers were saying things like "Its a lot of money for just a sellita movement" or "its a shame that Oris dont have their own movement". Now when they do, people still complain.
Their sellita movement is standard grade which is bad for that price of 2k for the Aquis model and the back glass is not sapphire and again for 2k is not acceptable. Even the in house movement is flawed and I have read reports that the movement stopped working or it needed to be replaced which again is not doing good for the brand itself. Sinn has a top grade sellita and the watches with an open caseback the glass is sapphire not mineral like the oris These little thing matter, al least for me.. why buy an Aquis with a standard grade sellita and a mineral glass back when you can buy a Sinn 104 with a top grade movement and a sapphire back glass
@@michaelm7557 you'll enjoy watches way more once you stop focussing so much on specifications. the design, ergonomics etc all matter just as much, if not more. these are pieces of jewellery after all.
People not buying it criticized the sellita movement back then, today people who bought Oris criticize that they changed it. You are talking about 2 different groups. They could have increased their old audience, if they would have changed the bracelet. The polished part outside is just not smart
You nailed this topic IMO. They lost their audience with the more expensive in-house calibers. What I love about the brand is their history and original watch designs which were accessible due to integrating mass produced (yet dependable) movements. Now, if you don't buy their in-house movement, its like you're buying a subpar offering. One loses the feeling of getting quality for money.
As real watch guys, we need to support brands like Oris. They do things their way and they may have jumped on trends. Having said that, they have plenty of legendary collections and most of their watches are brilliantly put together. I love my smaller 65 and can’t imagine a watch better than this in the mid $1000 range. Have you picked up a Longines lately? Why do they feel like tarted up Hammies???! I’d rather have an under-the-radar classic over some marketing exercise of a social media degenerative capitalistic expression. Tudor has done a solid job of leveraging its roots and parent. Oris just needs to leverage its history of unique and understated rebellion. Oris will never pander to celebrity and that is fine by me. They might consider movie placement like they once did so well. Anyhow… long live the independent!
We watch enthusiasts are a fickle bunch-we wanted in-house movements then complain about the much higher msrp! I think many watch brands trying to go upmarket these days are in for a lot of trouble 😎! Best regards
Excellent critique and glad you have said all this. I love Oris and the brand is the focus of my collection, but they have really lost their way in the last years. The focus on in-house movements and expensive summer watches has undone a good part of their usp.
This video made me fall down the rabbit hole looking at Pointer Dates (with the pencil hands) They are so darn gorgeous... if they could keep pushing these pieces (with adjusted priced) and upped their advertising, I'm sure there would be a shift. But as for the novelties year after year, it's such a pity. Thanks for this Phil! 🥃
I really appreciate your critique of Oris. You mentioned their move to creating in house movements which in turn means higher prices as a possible reason for diminished interest. I wholeheartedly agree and it’s not just in the initial purchase price but also the subsequent servicing costs and time delays. My profession requires extensive travel and with high quality third party movements, there’s just no downside for me in taking advantage of the reduced costs of servicing and the increased availability of watchmaking services that are thoroughly competent to accommodate. The turn around times are an additional advantage. These are significant factors I consider when thinking about a purchase. Your presentation is phenomenal as always and it’s always extra special when you cover watch brands that for whatever reason don’t get the attention they deserve! Very well done!🥃
Tudor. Oris used to be the best value proposition for its price point, but a combination of Oris raising its prices to justify an in-house movement (and a 5-day automatic at that, a contradiction IMHO) and Tudor increasing their value proposition without a significant price increase, has hurt Oris' perceived value.
Summed it up perfectly. Another name that came to my attention, Christopher Ward. All of these brands are refreshing their styles every other year, improving their movements (some even adding more artelier touches like Aventurine dials) and not charging an arm and a leg for them 🥃
TUDOR? lol Tudor has not been hurt at all lol. They are still dominant and you clearly didn't see they came out of watch and wonders the winner and with some outstanding new watches. Good Lord lol.
Tudor has one model what are you on about. People are bored with tudor is becoming a chav watch. I wont wear mine is becoming a watch worm by people i dont want associated with.
I like this topic. As an Oris fan, I'm happy to tell you why I stopped buying Oris watches. It is their strategy of having 38 hour basic movements, or 120 hours expensive movements which puts them near Tudor (or Breitling, on a discount) pricing. I wish Oris had: -kept the iconic red rotor design on their movement and -went for a price-sensitive movement upgrade approach, perhaps having 48 hours of power or so but still offering competitive pricing. There are so many Oris models where I find myself saying "almost", simply because the price feels too steep.
Very well said Steve, there’s a big divide between the two regions. Imagine then “offering more for less” and giving all the perks of the latest cals with reasonable prices 🥃
I love my Oris Aquis. I bought the Sellita version two years ago before the recent price hikes. It's such a good looking piece and it almost never leaves my wrist. I've swum in the ocean with it several times, I love putting it through its paces, and it can keep up just fine. That being said, at the moment, there aren't many other Oris models that really tempt me. I hope they will come out with something interesting in the future, maybe something new within their ProPilot range.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with it man and agree, I get the same kind of kick with my Tudor FXD. There’s nothing quite like a diver that you can throw around and put through it’s paces 😉 It’s just so odd seeing how the Oris brand has become disconnected on this platform 🥃
I think you’re spot on about price being the biggest factor. Once they push into the $4-5k range, the value is no longer there. They are competing with Tudor and Omega at that point. I prefer them to stay in the $1-2k range.
I just bought my first Oris a few days ago here in Kuwait and I'm impressed. The Oris Aquis Upcycle for $1,060 usd. Thinking about going back to get a Big Crown Pointer Date red face for $1,100.
Years ago Oris was hotly discussed on RUclips - we couldn't get enough of them. From excellent price points, interesting designs and general appeal to the new-timer or experienced enthusiast. What has changed? Or what hasn't changed (more to the point) 🥃
Two things have changed. First, Oris pricing has increased which possibly removed a large share of their audience- think of a pyramid, low price = big base, higher price = smaller base. Second, Oris isn’t a click bait title and most (other) RUclipsrs focus content on likely views. Tudor remains click bait by association to big brother.
Could it be the letters are doomed? What I mean is, you could just as well made the same video about Fortis. Privately owned, pioneer in watch engineering for space. Best watches quality wise. No copies of well-known watches but watches that stand on their own. Why don’t we hear more of them on RUclips? Exactly, because the masses see a watch as a status piece. Brand snobs are plenty. Yes Oris and Fortis prices are too high, and those brands are paying a price for that. It’s sad because “(F)Or(t)is” both deserve much better. Perfect video as always!
There's a stark divide between audiences here, right? I've been digging into Sinn lately and was inches away from pulling the trigger on the U50 "S L" - that negative dial is just exceptional... reading into the specs it gets even better. But then would a review of that piece get views on this platform? 1/500 Limited Edition? Doubtful. It almost boils down to folks needing to be told what is good and when it is said enough times that it becomes "fact", everyone wins ;) These "mid-tier" incredible brands (looking at Nivada Grenchen - I've got to own a Chronomaster) or Vulcain... there are just too many to mention, deserve better. Thank you Cedar for always sharing your insights 🥃
@@ID-Guy The Sin U50 "S L" is a killer piece: 11.2 mm thick for 500 m WR. I have a Sinn EZM 13.1. A 500 meter WR chronograph (yes, the pushers can be used underwater, I know of no other brand that achieved this feat). Now the task: try to find a RUclips review of the watch. Crazy isn't it.
Wow...talk about timing...I was just talking Oris watches tonight with a friend of mine on the phone about an hour ago, we are seeing some very decent discounts at a local retailer. I think brands like Tudor took a huge chunk out of Oris's pocket in recent years Excellent video brother 🥃
Timing is everything, right? ;) Oris make such gems... just this video alone had me fall down the rabbit hole looking into Pointer Dates (pencil hands) They are phenomenal... I'd have that Holstein Grey / Ghost dial in a heartbeat! But man, so many other names have taken up the creative slack in recent years, Tudor definitely one. I'd say even more relevant? Christopher Ward. All these brands are turning over new designs and keeping themselves fresh. Really interesting topic, no? Hope you're having a stellar weekend m'boy and thanks as always! 🥃
Oris is being squeezed from both sides. On the upscale side, Tudor is tough competition, even though that 400 movement is pretty spectacular after the worked through the kinks. On the downscale side, micros are challenging the value proposition of the SW200-powered pieces. Yes, Oris will hold their value better than many micros, but how does Oris compare to Christopher Ward or others from a a specs for price proposition? Oris is a brand for people in the know, but people in the know are aware of how their value proposition has changed over the years…
So true, I just watched Teddy's tour last night. It changed my view of Oris forever. I really liked the rep from the company. His passion for the brand made a huge impact on me.
Dear Mr IDGuy, hello mate. I’m glad you brought this up, Oris is a Brand that I admire. Must be hard for an independent though, to get a feed with all the sharks swimming around in the same pool. This watch space is filled with lots of sharp teeth. Coffee is key my friend. Life in a cup ☕️ Love your sincerity and honesty behind your videos. ❤
Oris makes excellent watches, some have 5 day power reserve, that most people never heard about unless they went to an AD that stocked it. Omega & Tudor seem to dominate the $2-5,000 price category. Oris needs to find a celebrity, place its watches in a TV show/movie, or sponsor a sports event to call attention to their watches. Or...get the ID Guy to do an exclusive video and visit its factory to show how the watches are made!
After reading your title, but before watching the video, I asked myself... “what is my biggest complaint against Oris?” And it was the price of their in house calibers. It leaves me with the impression of, “here is a $2000 watch. Here is essentially the same watch with our in house movement for $4000.” And its not that I don’t have watches in or above that price range. Its not that the movements are not beautiful with great features. But there are so many more options at that price point that not only have great movements, but what I would consider a level or two higher in overall finish. On a tangent, I do think it is amazing that they got 10 days of power reserve on a single barrel. I’d love to disassemble one. The barrel is huge and goes over the center of the movement. So I am really curious on how they handled the center wheel and center seconds. 🤔
Summed it up exactly Austin, it all seemed to change when "in-house" was mentioned. We all groaned and knew what was coming... double the price of a standard piece for nothing too spectacular. For the brand to go back to "offering more for less" would be such a bonus in their favour. Well said as always brother 🥃
@@user-mj4ye7cw8n You are missing the point. The in house movements are fine. Its the overall package that is lacking. Its essentially the same watches they’ve been selling for a $2000+ premium for the movement. It pits them against Tudor, Nomos, entry level Omega, entry level Grand Seiko, etc. It is a much tougher sell.
My first "good watch" was an Oris Big Crown pointer date. It was a gift to myself to cebrate my graduation. I sold it to purchase a mint 145.022 (1969) Speedy shortly afterwards. So I've always had a soft spot for Oris, and now keep a T2 diver in my collection. I purchased the diver in St. Maarten on vacation. I convinced my wife it was for our son....it was the first time he had gone swimming in the ocean (I will give it to him.....eventually 😄). Oris was an amazing value for money brand. Since their transition to in-house calibers, I have purchased Hamilton and Longines and haven't strongly considered Oris. I hope that changes in the future because I do agree they are fantastic watches. For reference...I believe the pointer date cost $900 Canadian in 1998, and the T2 diver around $1300 several years later....amazing value.
Amazing experience and thank you for sharing this Barry!… for a mint 145 from ‘69? That’s what dreams are made of… Oris makes brilliant pieces and it’s a shame they lack that exposure or flair that could push people to look at them more 🥃
I've been an Oris superfan for years. Their sellita watches were amazing value for money and my Aquis GMT was and still is my most special watch (for sentimental reasons). But, ill hold my hands up: I was in the market for a £3-4000 watch for my 40th birthday this year. I could have bought a calibre 400 Oris, but why would I when I could have a Tudor for similar money, so naturally got the Blackbay 58. And that's the problem for Oris. They can't ever compete with the prestige of the likes of Tudor. I hope they get it right though, because they are without a doubt, still my favourite watch brand.
Great video brother, I totally agree. I think Oris wanted to push on more fronts than they should have, raised their prices while the brand is not ready yet for the up price competition. Have a great Weekend!
It feels like it happened right at that moment when Tudor was pushing in-house calibers for the first time after switching from ETAs. Almost like when the North Flag arrived on the scene, so Oris began with their new caliber. They've had to work so hard balancing all of this at once (maybe neglecting advertising and refreshing design) in favour of keeping their in-house pieces relevant. Always a pleasure hearing from you Abdul! And I hope the season is starting to look a bit better where you are 😉
@@ID-Guy Thank God its not raining or snowing today so that is good 😂 Yeah, exactly wrong timing and the pressure from Tudor, I wouldn't buy an Oris I house if I could have a Tudor in house for the same price. Have a great one bro 👍🏽
the truth of the matter is. When higher-class watches were unavailable, oris was a valid option. Now with prices normalizing, interest shifts to the more popular brands and their models.
Oris. They aren't a 'destination' - they seem to be a brand that most enthusiasts move through on their way to more 'prestigious' brands, and that ain't gonna work when the prices of the majority of their releases start nudging up to those brands. I was on an aggregate sales site before watching this and there were 3 'Kermits' posted within the last few days .... all at substantially less than retail and I'm not sure they'll sell quickly. Funnily enough, it seems like the only Oris watches that seem to hold value are the ones with vintage styling - and that's a good indication of what the community wants from the brand. It's also what's been largely absent release wise. Interesting upload IDGuy (as per). Thanks and enjoy the weekend. Edit - spelling
Another brilliant analysis. Older styles hold value and interest? Makes so much sense now that I think about it. Personally, I'd have that Holstein Grey/Ghost dial Pointer date in a heartbeat. Their current range with the pencil hands are gorgeous (and pricey) For the brand to look at this and consider focusing more on "heritage" related stuff could be the way to go! That terrible grammatical title error (sans ?) is purely to play into YT's favour... don't worry, I hate it too 😆
Spot on...as always. I've been a fan of Oris for quite some time. I started with the Carlos Coste LE, a 2,000m titanium diver. A 47 mm case that wears so much smaller than it really is. Then, I purchased the original Depth Guage and then the Depth Guage Chrono. Both fantastic designs and, for the price, executed very well. It's been a long time since their selection has had anything that I would want to get. I hope that changes in the future...we need companies like Oris.
Does seem that way, right? Tudor has taken up the slack in this arena (with far less polarising / more appealing designs) Side note: Didn't you have an Aquis Depth Gauge back in the day? 😉
Longines too I think. I used to think of them in the same league but Longines now seems streets ahead. But Oris does not have a great catalogue of heritage models to draw from.
Tudor gets alot of hype from the community, to a great extent based on its association with older brother Rolex. Without such a link would it get the attention it currently does? 🤔 And if what I hear about QC issues is more widely true, combined with the huge numbers of used Tudors for sale on Chrono24 and elsewhere is anything to go by, Tudor’s ‘success’ may be more illusory and dependent on very deep parental pockets than we might like to think.
In my eyes Tudor is just homage brand and nothing else,after almost 100 years they still just replicate Rolex historic watches,they still don’t have their design language!
My first automatic was an ORIS Big Crown Date with ETA2824 purchased in London for the princely sum of GBP550. Bought it 20+ years ago, and had it serviced recently. Adjusted for inflation, the equivalent cost today is GBP1,006 (according to the Bank of England inflation calculator). Still a beautiful sunburst dark blue dial and the bracelet is lovely.
They make stellar pieces, must admit, I’ve been down the pointer date rabbit hole since making this video… love their 5 Day model with pencil hands. There’s so much potential for them to expand and bring in more exposure 🔥
I’m not sure what to say… I took delivery of my first Oris today, and I am beyond pleased with my new watch. I agree that perhaps their profile has diminished over the past few years, however they have been, and remained on my radar since the Williams affiliation back in the early 00’s. I was unable to find the exact iteration of the ProPilot I was seeking locally, so I opted to purchase mine from an AD over 5000 kilometres away. I had reservations about making a “blind” purchase as the models available locally did not live up to the photos I’d seen, however my new watch is exactly as I’d hoped. Oris has taken to advertise in sporting arenas all over North America, so perhaps their profile might grow here. It’d be a shame to have this wonderful watchmaker lose its footing. I am a fan of many of their offerings.
I've heard that the Aquis is their best-seller, and that seems reasonable. In light of that, I guess it makes sense for them to make only minor changes. The upgraded Aquis is the result of many (admittedly) small design decisions which should be interesting for those who look and think about those things, and I'm surprised you didn't discuss them.
My silver face Artelier is my favorite watch; it is my primary dress watch. I'm more protective of it now since my mother's passing. Oris isn't "disrupting the watch industry."
I've had 3 Aquis including a 400 in blue on the bracelet but now have a basic black on the strap and love the simplicity of it. I also have a white face rectangular, a big crown date on a canvas strap and an older BC3. I love that so few people know the brand, their independence and the quality you get without spending a lot of money. But I agree I couldn't justify spending on the higher end models.
It does seem like a lot of their energy has been spent on working around their own movements (more focus on that and less on many of the other areas) well said 🥃
Oris used to have such funky designs in the 90s/early 2000s aswell. Stuff like a divewatch with a regulator complication for example. Wish they did more interesting stuff
Their 90’s pieces were so cool and it’s true. Almost as if they’re asking whether the risk is worth the reward (valid question) - still, how cool would it be to see them return to basics? 🔥
To your point, marketing (classic and social media) is arguably the most important thing in the watch space. Unfortunately, Oris can't afford to compete in that way. I still love my Oris Miles Tonneau...
In my opinion, Oris has many things in their favour, like being an independent watch brand or having a long history. Oris has also some distinctive features like the pointer date in some watches, the possibility of a10 year warranty on their movements or their their servicing recommendation of every 10 years.... Having said all this, I think that Oris should focus on innovation on any level (movements, designs, eventually complications etc) in order to offer innovative good value for money. Being independent, and having much less marketing expenses that the big brands, Oris should have much more freedom to achieve that. Great video👍
I watched this video three months ago and just rewatched it. I almost never do that, but the critique is that good. I recently went to my AD where I had bought my Oris two years ago, and he's stopped carrying them. I looked online, and now it seems like they're only offered by online stores in my country. No bricks and mortar place has them. That speaks volumes about where Oris is heading. Someone should send this video to Oris with the hope that they get their heads out of their a before it's too late.
The big crown pointer date, but with the modern design and small seconds. Is one of my fave watches ever, its a bit too pricy for an oris imo to get anytime soon. But i wish they focused on that line more.
My favourite as of now too… I’ve tumbled down their rabbit hole since making this video. Imagine that Grey/Ghost dial was available to all of us?? Prefect template for a modern-vintage inspired piece 🔥
@ID-Guy i actually prefer the current baby blue, because i already have a grey dial in my collection. But if i didn't they grey would be my fave too. but it was $4k+ and now they just raised the prices. I wish they has as many colors of that one as they do the classic pointer date.
I appreciate what Oris are doing and think in house and incremental changes to well loved ranges is good. I just don’t gel with their designs. They offer something different and I appreciate that.
They've always battled with that "through-line" design that marries all of their pieces together - but man, a model like their Pointer Date (I've fallen down a rabbit hole recently) Sublime 🔥 Oris could do so much with their pieces, offering more for less. Well said 🥃
@ID-Guy thanks for this video about Oris. A brand I really like, owning a few of their watches. They are like the Swiss Seiko? Too many variations, maybe consumers are paralysed by too many options/variations? I gravitate to older Oris, there seems to be more effort put into the details on the dial back then rather than just printed dials.
I’ve got a vintage Oris big crown pointer & only 3 months ago bought a Oris big crown pilot! Fantastic watches! I’m still looking to get an Oris 65!😎👍🏼
I think they started to play the up-market game as many others (*cough* Seiko), and their cheaper models got more expensive than the competition, whilst their top offering became priced closer to the likes of Tudor. I think they will be just fine, as it seem like a deliberate strategy and they will still bounce back once they'll find their place. It will just be harder for them to appeal to the shallower pockets, but they are after a different market share now; sad but true.
I have a Big Crown and I love Oris …. Really enjoyed your video Oris should rethink their passion for the art of creating watches and invite people to give out testimonies from different models
I was listening to the head guy at Oris talk at Watches & Wonders a year ago. There was so much silly talk about Kermit, Muppets, Oceans....I got bored and annoyed and turned it off. What about watches!!?? One more thing: can you please, SOMEWHERE, state the accuracy of the movement?? I buy a COSC watch for $1,500 from Formex and I am happy. I wanted to like Oris....but it didn't happen. Now I don't even think about them anymore.
Going down the novelty route has lots of issues - staying power being something that always takes a hit. I don't think we understand their marketing strategy enough (or who they're targeting) And as for accuracy, honestly I've never even looked into their new calibers but I'd imagine they're COSC rated. Formex is another name that deserves a shoutout 😉
@@ID-Guy this is tony-in-utah, by the way. Regarding accuracy, if they are COSC then they should say that. They don't. am wierd - I need a watch to STATE, in writing, what the accuracy is. For example, I was in Japan recently and visited the flagship store of Grand Seiko (so much fun!), and found a REALLY cool Credor with a mechanical movement. I had to look for it, but the accuracy stated -10 to +15, which is at the outside limit of what I would accept. It actually runs about +2 per day. Also, good job on the video today, as always.
@@MikoTheTomCat Good to know! Thanks. But information that is still very difficult to find. There is a reason Rolex makes crystal clear "-2/+2" - because people do indeed care about accuracy. I had to google Oris accuracy and some site stated "-3/+5", and if that is indeed the case Oris should put it next to things like Power Reserve and service intervals, and make the accuracy spec crystal clear and easy to see.
Interest commentary ID Guy! The brand that lured me into watches back in 2000 has to be my first purchase ever, a simple Movado museum black dial with a single silver dot at the top. Since then it’s been Breitling, Omega, Seiko, Tudor, and now I’m on waitlist for a Rolex left hand drive GMT or submariner w green bezel. Oris on the other hand has never had the IT factor which made me desire it enough to buy one in the collection. However I wouldn’t argue against its quality nor robustness. Cheers to another week my friend 🎉
Interesting how many of their pieces lack that IT factor, right? Love the Movado museum… some very tasty pieces you’ve picked up over the years Mr Long 😉 Thank you as always sir and enjoy the remainder of your weekend! 🥃
Oris is my favorite brand, but lately they haven’t done much that grabs my attention. I remember when the Cal.400 came out and had all those issues and instead of facing it head on they stated it was “part of the charm” of the movement itself. Matter of fact I’m wearing my BCPD right now that I got for a MASSIVE discount at the AD. I’m optimistic about the future of Oris as I feel they’re going to do something that will make the brand catch some wind in its sails, but as of right now, it’s kind of bleak. Not to mention their price increase for not much more watch.
I love Oris and used to own a fantastic Divers GMT worldtimer (odd concept that I loved: I regret I sold it to finance another project), a great-designed Flight-timer Day-date and black-pvd F1 Williams chronograph. All great original designs that were far away from mainstream trends! All very effective tool watches! Now, I think that you are right. Their decline is due to this exhausting "race for the trends" in which they are competed "upward" by Tudor (for the dive watches) and "downward" by Christopher Ward (for eg the last Twelve X which is 2000 euros less expensive than the Oris skeletonized pro-pilot).
I mean, I live a stone's throw away from the US Oris Service Center and from my interactions with the owner and those working the front the impression I get is that the brand is thriving. They recently had to move into a new (larger) space after being in the same space for over 30 years to accommodate the demand. The comments section would have you believe that the brand is dying. I think Oris is less about sensationalizim and show and more about making sound/incremental decisions when it comes to their portfolio. They still offer plenty of LE for those who are looking for something different/unique but the core of the timepiece is still there. I have four Oris watches in my collection and plan to add more in the future. I appreciate the breakdown and your thoughts tho. I don't see them changing drastically tho. Which is what I like. :-)
I do think they are still doing some cool things. I picked up one of the limited edition 3D printed carbon fiber case Coulson ProPilot watches with the gorgeous gradient red/orange dial. And I think the caliber 400 is awesome. And it seems like they are integrating on models like the Aquis similar to Rolex.
I own 7 luxury watches and, while Oris is in the least expensive third of the collection, it is the only brand that appears more than once. Indeed, they’re the only brand for which I have a list of pieces I’d like to collect in the years ahead. Anecdotal evidence from a watch tragic ✌️the business’s financials will tell the ultimate truth of the story.
I long liked Oris, but didn’t buy one until the caliber 400 in an Aquis. I wanted the better movement and was willing to pay more. I also got a 400 Pointer Date, found it with a huge discount. They are nice watches for the price.
They're such great watches... just prepping this video made me go down the rabbit hole looking into their Big Crowns (with their new calibers) I love those models with the pencil hands. Clean, simple (I'd have that Holstein edition with the ghost grey dial in a heartbeat) Alas! Oris deserves better 🥃
I think one miss on their part has been not to distinguish their in house movement watches from those with eta/sellita ones. If they understood value to be their calling card, surely they’d understand the role projection of status plays in watch buying. I also have to say the eccentricities of their in house calibers (which is not exclusive to Oris) also plays a part. All said I still want them to do well, one of the few large scale affordable independents. Cheers
It's that little "5 Days" indicator on their dials.. but who would know that if they weren't into watches? You're right, distinguishing marks are everything (especially when prices double) Well said here as always Fahad. The brand has so much to work with. Man, it would be cool to see them have a resurgence - offering more for less 🥃
When I consider my own 12 year watch journey : Over time, I moved from Rolex, Omega, Breitling to Formex, Traska and Baltic, skipping Oris in the middle. It’s a shame as the big crowd Wings of Hope is one of my favorite timepieces and their boutiques and staff are really nice.
It feels like we're in the age of the Micro-brands, partially due to the inaccessibility of Rolex and the constant price increases of Omega. Brands like Christopher Ward, Zero West, Erebus (bought one) and others seem to command the attention that brands like ORIS used to. I have an ORIS Aquis and I love it. I also think ORIS doesn't have the deep pockets for both R&D and Marketing given they're independent.
I got back into Swiss watches thanks really to the Oris TT diver! 44mm, 300m, stainless with those polished outer links, the RED Rotor! I felt like a millionaire wearing that. It had style and value. I’ve long sold it and never owned another Oris, but it laid the foundation for my love of this “hobby”!
I love oris, and their older watches are amazing. I also love the cotton candy colors . Though the watch i want of theirs just seems too expensive by about $1k, and its not high enough on my to buy list to get anytime soon.
I think around the 4 minute mark hit the nail on the head for me personally. I picked up the aquis, 65 and pointer second hand and loved all three. None of them have in house. I cherished them and still own them but I can't bring myself to spend that money on new models vs putting that toward names up market. I'd love some other color schemes of the aquis and yet... Too redundant in the collection.
Strange how it goes, right? It's hard to justify spending double for what is essentially the same watch. Thanks for sharing this Kyle, I think we all share the same sentiments 🥃
All very good and valid points IDGuy. I don't blame Oris for giving us 'different' dials that few if any asked for but if you miss the trend then you miss the boat to a possible quick fortune. I do like what Oris is doing for good causes including the upcycle. The in house designed cal 400 watches are a fair chunk of cash more but at least Oris are giving us the choice in a lot of cases to choose the call 400 or a 3rd party based Swiss movement. Oris are a small independent brand that has the ability to move quickly compared to the 'group' brands that have to go through the corporate budget approval malarkey against other 'brands' within the same group for the money. Better marketing could certainly help out a lot as you mention. As for the updated Aquis line? I'll pass on upgrading mine. The changes are a subtle improvement and that's OK, Oris are not going to pi$$ of existing owners but could attract new ones. Anyway I'm waffling now so I'll leave it at that. Many thanks for sharing.
Yes, you're spot on. With the in-house movements and different positioning they priced themselves out of their market. And in their new market, there is fierce competition from brands with much bigger bang. And dare I say, also better design. There's nothing wrong with Oris, but both their designs and their brand are a bit meh.
A watch that is technically as prestigious as Rolex in fact it’s technically more prestigious because they made their own movements. One of the few independent brands at reasonable price level.
How cool was it? I think deep down, the one thing that become the biggest detractor (and it's so minor) was the AR coating on the crystal. One of my pet peeves is owning a black watch (or any colour) and all I see is blue when I least expect it 😆 Absolutely nothing to fault about the OG 65 besides the AR (and I couldn't afford to keep it at the time with new pieces coming in) Alas...
Pedantically, is there a question mark missing (MvDR)? Always enjoyed the appearance of the Oris 65 but for the price, but other brands compete with it strongly on movement, bracelet, more (?), so ...& I really want to support independent brands.
Personally, I think they have innovated quite a lot in the past 5 years- especially for a true small brand. The new caliber is a fantastic value proposition. In my opinion, they owed us a more comprehensive Aquis refresh and I wish we saw that at WaW. I'd also like to see a fresh take on the standard ProPilot, as this line feels pretty stale and sub-premium compared to the Propilot X, Aquis, Divers, and Big Crown.
Still have my Aquis and would love to add a diver 65. I think the Sellita variants are good value. I hadn't really noticed no one talking about them on RUclips but most of the channels ride the hype train watches anyway.
Oris paid the price of chasing trends instead of sticking to a style. I was a big fan of their Oris TT divers with its bold chunky polished bracelet links, the bracelet gave me an impression of absolute strength and unreserved quality (maybe because they weren't stingy on the amount of metal put in), when they came out with the Aquis range, that style remained, and confident that this is their design language, I bought one and enjoyed it for years, every time I look at it, I feel STRONG! Then post 2017 they changed the bracelet to thinner versions for sissies who complained about the thickness, in the name of elegance and more wearability. I felt betrayed. Its like our vision no longer align. I feel like an employee with a new boss who had taken over and I am not happy with his style. I found nothing I like to buy, so I bought other brands. I realized they had threw away the style that attracted me. When the colorful dials were released for the Aquis, I though oh man, thats a suicide blow. Eventually I sold away the chunky Aquis I loved and went Seiko with Strapcode Hexad for more chunky thick bracelet fun.
I own a Big Crown Pointer Date from 2002 and an Aquis bought when the model was relatively new. Recently whenever UK retailers advertise online sales you'll find Oris well represented. Their Pro Pilot X seems permanently heavily discounted by many ADs to £2500. That is good value but Oris' RRP is close to £4K and this one I'm sure they had high hopes for.
Love the eariler Pointer with pencil hands. That should be a mainstay (and advertised heavily) it's such a clean design! And the ProPilot X had all the making of a great pieces in their eyes, right? Ti case, In-house caliber, great all-round design, but I think even in a video I made about it 2 years back, the dials had no depth to them. Another collection of theirs they could revamp (but maybe the ship has already sailed) Well said as always sir! 🥃
I own four ORIS timepieces, the Pro Diver GMT, the Pro Diver Dive Control Limited Edition, The Aquis GMT Blue Dial, The Big Crown Pro Pilot GMT. I was introduced to this brand around Christmas of 2022, two weeks earlier I had bought a Tag Heuer Aquaracer GMT Pepsi Calibri 7. I do like Oris for their Price point, and Quality. I've worn my Pro Diver GMT to work, it's a very durable watch and keeps excellent time, the Lume is brilliant and at a glance can read the time. I wouldn't mind getting a Omega or a rolex though
So well said, and it’s a shame because everything you said was true. I love this brand. An Aquis was indeed my first “good watch”. I’m all for the Cal 400 and I may eventually get another Aquis 400 at some point second hand. But one other thing : they’ve been leaning so heavily into 43.5mm watches. Most of the interesting LEs they do are in gargantuan sizes. I feel they’ve lost their way a bit.
Seeing that 2021 Holstein Pointer Date (think it was 2021 - with the Grey/Ghost dial) Why did they never make this watch a regular production model? They have so, so much potential to make killings with these ranges. And I'm also seeing how the 43mm size is becoming their primary. It's odd, right? Noticed that was in all the marketing material with this years Aquis 🥃
They would have to push and offer something you want. The marketing department is definitely slacking here. Its literally disappeared now and not in your face and talked about. Only new myself to watches and bought two Turdor already. Was at one point considering Oris, but now not so much. Still a great watch and has everything you need, but you do need that push to wanting one. Personally, I feel you have hit the nail on the head on this 👍
I think Oris tried their big marketing splash a few years ago with the e ProPilot X Cal 115. I absolutely bought one, pre-owned though, because I couldn't justify paying $7+k for an Oris. And that's the rub. They probably needed to build slower and inch up like Longines, with a series of bangers to build equity and mindshare before going large with a high horology piece. Moreover, they have a disjointed design language. Are they looking forward, with the ProPilot, or backward with the Big Crown? They just need to streamline, I think, and they'll be fine.
I love oris. In fact it was and still is the first watch in my collection. Best thing about it is their independence. Not many brands are. That actually became my collecting strategy. I believe all my watches are from independent brands. As someone else said in comments "oris is for people in the know". I don't think there are flippers of oris watches. Once mainstream will stop buying watches as investment oris will shine again.
A really interesting take. I like the brand. But, as you say, I think they’ve made a mistake on focusing on novelty watches (Kermit) and fashionable colours (cotton candy). They also suffer, as an independent brand, of not having the marketing budget of the big conglomerates. And then they raised prices too much on their calibre 400 releases. And yet they make some great watches . I’m currently looking closely at the big crown pointer date calibre 403 (pencil hands, dark blue dial) as my next watch. At the Oris boutiques it sells for $aus6000. That feels too much. But I’ve noticed ADs are now offering a 25% discount on the entire range. So $aus4500 seems reasonable….
Exactly the same as you! BC Pointer with those pencils… I’ve fallen down a rabbit hole! Imagine that Grey/Ghost dial was a main model and not a limited edition? Frankly, if I was pursuing Oris at the moment (never say never) I’d be picking up a Pointer Date like you described, love their take on the newer variant 🔥
Oris has bad service centers. I bought a 65 numeral, party because of RUclips reviews in 2016 I think. Great watch. Fast forward 2023. I sent the watch for a service in one of their service centers. Everything went downhill. The watch came back filled with dust specs, on the dial, under the crystal, on the hands .. everywhere. So I sent it back. It came back better, but the black lacquered finish got damaged around the hands set probably because of the removal tool. At that point I'm like **** it, I'm gonna live with it. Then, first time in water : condensation under the crystal, the crown was not water tight. Sent back to Oris .. it came back but again with dust everywhere. At this point I gave up. It's been sitting in a drawer for a year now. I'm done with Oris, forever. I've moved on to Omega and I can say with confidence that Oris is a waste of money. Just get that Omega .. don't waste your time with Oris.
Wise words. Go high end Omega and get good service, or go low end even a San Martin watch and enjoy it and if something happens to it - no big deal. It seems with Oris - you get the worst of both worlds.
Interestingly, my Oris ProPilot X Caliber 115 attracts far more attention than most of my other, more expensive watches. It boasts an impressive 14-day power reserve and is extremely legible. However, I've never seen anyone else wearing this watch, and despite this model and the absolutely impressive Caliber 400 watches, Oris is still often referred to as an entry-level brand. I am also considering the new Oris with a laser dial, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. It looks like something that would normally generate a lot of hype. The design is a statement in itself, mature, and distinctly unique.
I’m fine with what Oris is. IRT the Aquis, they’ve gotten to the fine refinement stage. It’s a great line. Yet still solid DNA to the original TT diver line.
I have two Oris, Aquis GMT and Propilot X, I love them both and they're easily the equal of some more expensive watches I have. The Cal 400 is really great. I don't know why they're losing veiws, the watches are terrific. Rolf Studer could do with being more visible, hes so passionate about the brand that it raises your interest.
Was so close to pulling the trigger on an Aquis. It is stunning and I've tried it on a lot of times. But now I've moved towards Helm. It's less than a quarter of the money and far more versatile. Plus ISO rating helps. I think great microbrands have really taken away Oris market share. Christopher Ward is better value. The Aquis is still amazing as a luxury piece. If i was in another tax bracket i would buy the whole Oris range! Lol
Not just an Oris problem I think - leaving aside the perennials like Rolex, Omega, and stepping over the MoonSwatch lunacy, the Swiss watch sector seems to be in a real funk right now. Almost like they burned the ideas candle out through the covid spending boom and are left with pretty much nothing new to bring to market. With the global economic drop off, I think it's now going to be a survival game for the next 4 to 5 years - I think many are either saving for a genuine big ticket thing like Rolex (now you can actually buy them again), or content to muck about in the cheap seats with G-Shocks, Microbrands, AliExpress stuff, and so on. The $2000-$5000 bracket now seems to be a no man's land where they're either not really much better than the entry level, or so expensive you may as well keep saving until you're into Omega/Rolex/etc.
I love Oris, their Simplicity with their Aquis, The Cherry was my favourite and regularly sought after but they quickly raised their prices, and even with dealers sales they are still overpriced IMO. With In-house it was introduced and respected. However their price increases completely diminished any positive reviews
As a baseball and particularly Atlanta Braves fan, I have the Hank Aaron Limited and I love it - beautifully made with terrific attention to detail and a very wearable size. However, nothing else in their catalog really appeals to me
Loved the underrated 2005 Chronoris, and agree…It seems they’ve lost their way for many of the reasons discussed here. But…Who remembers The Sopranos episode in which two are presented and included in (Sir) Ben Kingsley’s awards show ‘goodie bag?’ If one had only made its way to Tony’s wrist, the Day Date might’ve had some rotational competition 🤔 😂
Don’t forget that we now exist in a VERY crowded space that Oris once dominated, the micro brand/independents. At a recent watch show, there were dozens of new brands that have filled into the $500-$2000 space, where Oris once existed. Now they have gone up market with some real pedigree and house names, and that’s really tough to play in. Be the big fish in a small pond or a little fish in an ocean?
I love my Aquis, I’m wearing it now and it’s pretty much meant my Tag and my Christopher Wards don’t get much wrist time. In fact my wife picked an Aquis for her birthday as someone who isn’t a watch enthusiast instead of Tissot and Longines at the lower end but also ahead of TAG and Tudor at the higher end.
My purchase of oris aquis was in 2020 and I never thought I would make a regrettable choice with aqua green , so far no plans for upgrade, maybe change the bracelet to a rubber strap
They've got very expensive with the Calibre 400 movement, though it's meant to be good. I like their watches, but at the price point they are at, there are simply too many other options that I like more and look better, with maybe more brand cache.
Great piece as always - showed some real bangers from before I was this deep in the watch rabbit hole. Agree with the majority: they went up in weight class which is already full of heavy hitters, coupled with the up and comers beneath them. The eco stuff and silly Kermit offering doesn’t win them any respect from hardcore watch enthusiasts.
Still plenty to like in Oris' range. Each new release is strong. Their quality of construction is high and they release novelties that do get people talking. I think the issue is the YT platform, where content creators just bang on about Tudor or Rolex. YT has become spectacularly narrow, dominated by an 'aspirational newb' herd mindset, with very little to say. You throw a resurgent Tissot, Longines and TAG (who were all asleep 5/6 years ago) into the mix and Oris is just plain squeezed. But they're still out there, making great watches...
Oris is a weird spot. Their product is excellent, they have VERY stiff competition at the price point that they are at. They just don’t have the hype, but the product is excellent and has a lot of value.
You’re absolutely right. Quite alot has changed in the market and to Oris’s range, which has shrunk; eg Artix, Chronoris, have disappeared, other ranges have been reduced or totally stagnated eg Artelier. What remains, whilst very nice, somehow doesn’t have the ‘ooooo’ factor, or the finessed price point it once had.
The rise of some excellent, more dynamic, microbrands (eg CW, Farer, Formex, Monta, etc.) has also sucked bandwidth away from Oris, and the volume of, and choice from, competitors has not been this voluminous for five or six decades. Oris is being squeezed from above (more brand hype) and from below (better value and designs). Having said that, if what I hear is correct and sales for many big brands are properly tanking, the hype bubble is deflating rapidly. That is both an opportunity and a threat to Oris. What’s happening to *its* sales atm? 🤔
Being part of a big group is no gaurantee of success; consider Blancpain, Breguet, Baume & Mercier, even JLC is not doing that well. Big groups seemingly focus R&D and marketing resources on the brands that already have the highest profiles.
For me Oris needs to regain its surprise-and-delight. But then again, we are the watch community and only a very small part of the market. Perhaps its conservative approach is necessary for survival.
Microbrands have definitely been disruptive to the industry. I never buy 'name' brands - the microbrand space has so many cooler, original, innovative, and better value watches.
Your "squeezing" analogy is spot-on and you sum it up better than I ever could. For a brand like Oris to offer "more for less", maybe looking over a brand like Tudor's or CW's shoulder to see how they run their models could also help. Man, they have potential here, more potential than the already perceived "luxury" brands who are charging ludicrous prices for pieces. Oris could rekindle that mid-tier spirit now with their in-house cals on display and more dynamic designs (maybe returning to their old roots) Excellently said here man 🥃
@ozicryptoG Which one are you saving up for?
@@evanssm1LOL
Oris should release an alarm watch using their own new caliber 400 movements (but not the integrated bracelet) 👊🏾
Its funny how just a few years ago, all the reviewers were saying things like "Its a lot of money for just a sellita movement" or "its a shame that Oris dont have their own movement". Now when they do, people still complain.
Exactly! Well said mate 👍
Their sellita movement is standard grade which is bad for that price of 2k for the Aquis model and the back glass is not sapphire and again for 2k is not acceptable.
Even the in house movement is flawed and I have read reports that the movement stopped working or it needed to be replaced which again is not doing good for the brand itself.
Sinn has a top grade sellita and the watches with an open caseback the glass is sapphire not mineral like the oris
These little thing matter, al least for me.. why buy an Aquis with a standard grade sellita and a mineral glass back when you can buy a Sinn 104 with a top grade movement and a sapphire back glass
@@michaelm7557 Because the Sinn is ugly for starters...
@@michaelm7557 you'll enjoy watches way more once you stop focussing so much on specifications. the design, ergonomics etc all matter just as much, if not more. these are pieces of jewellery after all.
People not buying it criticized the sellita movement back then, today people who bought Oris criticize that they changed it. You are talking about 2 different groups.
They could have increased their old audience, if they would have changed the bracelet. The polished part outside is just not smart
You nailed this topic IMO. They lost their audience with the more expensive in-house calibers. What I love about the brand is their history and original watch designs which were accessible due to integrating mass produced (yet dependable) movements. Now, if you don't buy their in-house movement, its like you're buying a subpar offering. One loses the feeling of getting quality for money.
As real watch guys, we need to support brands like Oris. They do things their way and they may have jumped on trends. Having said that, they have plenty of legendary collections and most of their watches are brilliantly put together. I love my smaller 65 and can’t imagine a watch better than this in the mid $1000 range. Have you picked up a Longines lately? Why do they feel like tarted up Hammies???! I’d rather have an under-the-radar classic over some marketing exercise of a social media degenerative capitalistic expression. Tudor has done a solid job of leveraging its roots and parent. Oris just needs to leverage its history of unique and understated rebellion. Oris will never pander to celebrity and that is fine by me. They might consider movie placement like they once did so well. Anyhow… long live the independent!
We watch enthusiasts are a fickle bunch-we wanted in-house movements then complain about the much higher msrp! I think many watch brands trying to go upmarket these days are in for a lot of trouble 😎! Best regards
Excellent critique and glad you have said all this. I love Oris and the brand is the focus of my collection, but they have really lost their way in the last years. The focus on in-house movements and expensive summer watches has undone a good part of their usp.
This video made me fall down the rabbit hole looking at Pointer Dates (with the pencil hands) They are so darn gorgeous... if they could keep pushing these pieces (with adjusted priced) and upped their advertising, I'm sure there would be a shift. But as for the novelties year after year, it's such a pity. Thanks for this Phil! 🥃
I really appreciate your critique of Oris. You mentioned their move to creating in house movements which in turn means higher prices as a possible reason for diminished interest. I wholeheartedly agree and it’s not just in the initial purchase price but also the subsequent servicing costs and time delays. My profession requires extensive travel and with high quality third party movements, there’s just no downside for me in taking advantage of the reduced costs of servicing and the increased availability of watchmaking services that are thoroughly competent to accommodate. The turn around times are an additional advantage. These are significant factors I consider when thinking about a purchase.
Your presentation is phenomenal as always and it’s always extra special when you cover watch brands that for whatever reason don’t get the attention they deserve! Very well done!🥃
Tudor. Oris used to be the best value proposition for its price point, but a combination of Oris raising its prices to justify an in-house movement (and a 5-day automatic at that, a contradiction IMHO) and Tudor increasing their value proposition without a significant price increase, has hurt Oris' perceived value.
Summed it up perfectly. Another name that came to my attention, Christopher Ward. All of these brands are refreshing their styles every other year, improving their movements (some even adding more artelier touches like Aventurine dials) and not charging an arm and a leg for them 🥃
TUDOR? lol Tudor has not been hurt at all lol. They are still dominant and you clearly didn't see they came out of watch and wonders the winner and with some outstanding new watches. Good Lord lol.
Tudor has one model what are you on about. People are bored with tudor is becoming a chav watch. I wont wear mine is becoming a watch worm by people i dont want associated with.
Oris has character, Tudor is as boring as Corn Flakes
@@paulhopkins1905 Bronze Tudors are cool
I like this topic. As an Oris fan, I'm happy to tell you why I stopped buying Oris watches. It is their strategy of having 38 hour basic movements, or 120 hours expensive movements which puts them near Tudor (or Breitling, on a discount) pricing. I wish Oris had: -kept the iconic red rotor design on their movement and -went for a price-sensitive movement upgrade approach, perhaps having 48 hours of power or so but still offering competitive pricing. There are so many Oris models where I find myself saying "almost", simply because the price feels too steep.
Very well said Steve, there’s a big divide between the two regions. Imagine then “offering more for less” and giving all the perks of the latest cals with reasonable prices 🥃
@@ID-Guy oris flew too close to the sun, so-to-speak, with the 120 hour in-house calibre.
Bingo!
I love my Oris Aquis. I bought the Sellita version two years ago before the recent price hikes. It's such a good looking piece and it almost never leaves my wrist. I've swum in the ocean with it several times, I love putting it through its paces, and it can keep up just fine. That being said, at the moment, there aren't many other Oris models that really tempt me. I hope they will come out with something interesting in the future, maybe something new within their ProPilot range.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with it man and agree, I get the same kind of kick with my Tudor FXD. There’s nothing quite like a diver that you can throw around and put through it’s paces 😉 It’s just so odd seeing how the Oris brand has become disconnected on this platform 🥃
I think you’re spot on about price being the biggest factor. Once they push into the $4-5k range, the value is no longer there. They are competing with Tudor and Omega at that point. I prefer them to stay in the $1-2k range.
I just bought my first Oris a few days ago here in Kuwait and I'm impressed. The Oris Aquis Upcycle for $1,060 usd. Thinking about going back to get a Big Crown Pointer Date red face for $1,100.
Years ago Oris was hotly discussed on RUclips - we couldn't get enough of them.
From excellent price points, interesting designs and general appeal to the new-timer or experienced enthusiast.
What has changed? Or what hasn't changed (more to the point) 🥃
Two things have changed. First, Oris pricing has increased which possibly removed a large share of their audience- think of a pyramid, low price = big base, higher price = smaller base. Second, Oris isn’t a click bait title and most (other) RUclipsrs focus content on likely views. Tudor remains click bait by association to big brother.
Could it be the letters are doomed? What I mean is, you could just as well made the same video about Fortis.
Privately owned, pioneer in watch engineering for space. Best watches quality wise. No copies of well-known watches but watches that stand on their own.
Why don’t we hear more of them on RUclips?
Exactly, because the masses see a watch as a status piece. Brand snobs are plenty. Yes Oris and Fortis prices are too high, and those brands are paying a price for that.
It’s sad because “(F)Or(t)is” both deserve much better.
Perfect video as always!
There's a stark divide between audiences here, right? I've been digging into Sinn lately and was inches away from pulling the trigger on the U50 "S L" - that negative dial is just exceptional... reading into the specs it gets even better. But then would a review of that piece get views on this platform? 1/500 Limited Edition? Doubtful. It almost boils down to folks needing to be told what is good and when it is said enough times that it becomes "fact", everyone wins ;) These "mid-tier" incredible brands (looking at Nivada Grenchen - I've got to own a Chronomaster) or Vulcain... there are just too many to mention, deserve better. Thank you Cedar for always sharing your insights 🥃
@@ID-Guy The Sin U50 "S L" is a killer piece: 11.2 mm thick for 500 m WR. I have a Sinn EZM 13.1. A 500 meter WR chronograph (yes, the pushers can be used underwater, I know of no other brand that achieved this feat). Now the task: try to find a RUclips review of the watch. Crazy isn't it.
@@cedarcanoe I have just checked them. Subjectively I consider them both very ugly.
@@MrTekeshi no prob, I can live with your opinion 🙏
@@cedarcanoe of course of course, we are buying watches for ourselves right? ;)
Wow...talk about timing...I was just talking Oris watches tonight with a friend of mine on the phone about an hour ago, we are seeing some very decent discounts at a local retailer.
I think brands like Tudor took a huge chunk out of Oris's pocket in recent years
Excellent video brother 🥃
Timing is everything, right? ;) Oris make such gems... just this video alone had me fall down the rabbit hole looking into Pointer Dates (pencil hands) They are phenomenal... I'd have that Holstein Grey / Ghost dial in a heartbeat! But man, so many other names have taken up the creative slack in recent years, Tudor definitely one. I'd say even more relevant? Christopher Ward. All these brands are turning over new designs and keeping themselves fresh. Really interesting topic, no? Hope you're having a stellar weekend m'boy and thanks as always! 🥃
@@ID-Guy absolutely 🥃🥃
Oris is being squeezed from both sides. On the upscale side, Tudor is tough competition, even though that 400 movement is pretty spectacular after the worked through the kinks.
On the downscale side, micros are challenging the value proposition of the SW200-powered pieces. Yes, Oris will hold their value better than many micros, but how does Oris compare to Christopher Ward or others from a a specs for price proposition? Oris is a brand for people in the know, but people in the know are aware of how their value proposition has changed over the years…
This brand earned my respect forever, especially since the wholesome Teddy's manufacture-tour
So true, I just watched Teddy's tour last night. It changed my view of Oris forever. I really liked the rep from the company. His passion for the brand made a huge impact on me.
Dear Mr IDGuy, hello mate.
I’m glad you brought this up, Oris is a Brand that I admire.
Must be hard for an independent though, to get a feed with all the sharks swimming around in the same pool.
This watch space is filled with lots of sharp teeth.
Coffee is key my friend.
Life in a cup ☕️
Love your sincerity and honesty behind your videos. ❤
I talk about and wear Oris all the time...
Oris makes excellent watches, some have 5 day power reserve, that most people never heard about unless they went to an AD that stocked it. Omega & Tudor seem to dominate the $2-5,000 price category. Oris needs to find a celebrity, place its watches in a TV show/movie, or sponsor a sports event to call attention to their watches. Or...get the ID Guy to do an exclusive video and visit its factory to show how the watches are made!
After reading your title, but before watching the video, I asked myself... “what is my biggest complaint against Oris?” And it was the price of their in house calibers. It leaves me with the impression of, “here is a $2000 watch. Here is essentially the same watch with our in house movement for $4000.” And its not that I don’t have watches in or above that price range. Its not that the movements are not beautiful with great features. But there are so many more options at that price point that not only have great movements, but what I would consider a level or two higher in overall finish.
On a tangent, I do think it is amazing that they got 10 days of power reserve on a single barrel. I’d love to disassemble one. The barrel is huge and goes over the center of the movement. So I am really curious on how they handled the center wheel and center seconds. 🤔
Summed it up exactly Austin, it all seemed to change when "in-house" was mentioned. We all groaned and knew what was coming... double the price of a standard piece for nothing too spectacular. For the brand to go back to "offering more for less" would be such a bonus in their favour. Well said as always brother 🥃
@@user-mj4ye7cw8n You are missing the point. The in house movements are fine. Its the overall package that is lacking. Its essentially the same watches they’ve been selling for a $2000+ premium for the movement. It pits them against Tudor, Nomos, entry level Omega, entry level Grand Seiko, etc. It is a much tougher sell.
My first "good watch" was an Oris Big Crown pointer date. It was a gift to myself to cebrate my graduation. I sold it to purchase a mint 145.022 (1969) Speedy shortly afterwards. So I've always had a soft spot for Oris, and now keep a T2 diver in my collection. I purchased the diver in St. Maarten on vacation. I convinced my wife it was for our son....it was the first time he had gone swimming in the ocean (I will give it to him.....eventually 😄). Oris was an amazing value for money brand. Since their transition to in-house calibers, I have purchased Hamilton and Longines and haven't strongly considered Oris. I hope that changes in the future because I do agree they are fantastic watches. For reference...I believe the pointer date cost $900 Canadian in 1998, and the T2 diver around $1300 several years later....amazing value.
Amazing experience and thank you for sharing this Barry!… for a mint 145 from ‘69? That’s what dreams are made of… Oris makes brilliant pieces and it’s a shame they lack that exposure or flair that could push people to look at them more 🥃
I've been an Oris superfan for years. Their sellita watches were amazing value for money and my Aquis GMT was and still is my most special watch (for sentimental reasons). But, ill hold my hands up:
I was in the market for a £3-4000 watch for my 40th birthday this year. I could have bought a calibre 400 Oris, but why would I when I could have a Tudor for similar money, so naturally got the Blackbay 58.
And that's the problem for Oris. They can't ever compete with the prestige of the likes of Tudor.
I hope they get it right though, because they are without a doubt, still my favourite watch brand.
Great video brother, I totally agree. I think Oris wanted to push on more fronts than they should have, raised their prices while the brand is not ready yet for the up price competition. Have a great Weekend!
It feels like it happened right at that moment when Tudor was pushing in-house calibers for the first time after switching from ETAs. Almost like when the North Flag arrived on the scene, so Oris began with their new caliber. They've had to work so hard balancing all of this at once (maybe neglecting advertising and refreshing design) in favour of keeping their in-house pieces relevant. Always a pleasure hearing from you Abdul! And I hope the season is starting to look a bit better where you are 😉
@@ID-Guy Thank God its not raining or snowing today so that is good 😂
Yeah, exactly wrong timing and the pressure from Tudor, I wouldn't buy an Oris I house if I could have a Tudor in house for the same price. Have a great one bro 👍🏽
I almost got their recent Big Crown Caliber 400. Until I noticed it had 19mm lug width. What a downer.
the truth of the matter is. When higher-class watches were unavailable, oris was a valid option. Now with prices normalizing, interest shifts to the more popular brands and their models.
Very well said Ossory 🥃
Oris. They aren't a 'destination' - they seem to be a brand that most enthusiasts move through on their way to more 'prestigious' brands, and that ain't gonna work when the prices of the majority of their releases start nudging up to those brands.
I was on an aggregate sales site before watching this and there were 3 'Kermits' posted within the last few days .... all at substantially less than retail and I'm not sure they'll sell quickly. Funnily enough, it seems like the only Oris watches that seem to hold value are the ones with vintage styling - and that's a good indication of what the community wants from the brand. It's also what's been largely absent release wise.
Interesting upload IDGuy (as per). Thanks and enjoy the weekend.
Edit - spelling
Another brilliant analysis. Older styles hold value and interest? Makes so much sense now that I think about it. Personally, I'd have that Holstein Grey/Ghost dial Pointer date in a heartbeat. Their current range with the pencil hands are gorgeous (and pricey) For the brand to look at this and consider focusing more on "heritage" related stuff could be the way to go! That terrible grammatical title error (sans ?) is purely to play into YT's favour... don't worry, I hate it too 😆
Spot on...as always. I've been a fan of Oris for quite some time. I started with the Carlos Coste LE, a 2,000m titanium diver. A 47 mm case that wears so much smaller than it really is. Then, I purchased the original Depth Guage and then the Depth Guage Chrono. Both fantastic designs and, for the price, executed very well. It's been a long time since their selection has had anything that I would want to get. I hope that changes in the future...we need companies like Oris.
Excellent critique. This is one of the mid tier brands Tudor has taken out ….. more to follow?
Does seem that way, right? Tudor has taken up the slack in this arena (with far less polarising / more appealing designs) Side note: Didn't you have an Aquis Depth Gauge back in the day? 😉
💯
Longines too I think. I used to think of them in the same league but Longines now seems streets ahead. But Oris does not have a great catalogue of heritage models to draw from.
Tudor gets alot of hype from the community, to a great extent based on its association with older brother Rolex. Without such a link would it get the attention it currently does? 🤔 And if what I hear about QC issues is more widely true, combined with the huge numbers of used Tudors for sale on Chrono24 and elsewhere is anything to go by, Tudor’s ‘success’ may be more illusory and dependent on very deep parental pockets than we might like to think.
In my eyes Tudor is just homage brand and nothing else,after almost 100 years they still just replicate Rolex historic watches,they still don’t have their design language!
My first automatic was an ORIS Big Crown Date with ETA2824 purchased in London for the princely sum of GBP550. Bought it 20+ years ago, and had it serviced recently. Adjusted for inflation, the equivalent cost today is GBP1,006 (according to the Bank of England inflation calculator).
Still a beautiful sunburst dark blue dial and the bracelet is lovely.
They make stellar pieces, must admit, I’ve been down the pointer date rabbit hole since making this video… love their 5 Day model with pencil hands. There’s so much potential for them to expand and bring in more exposure 🔥
I’m not sure what to say… I took delivery of my first Oris today, and I am beyond pleased with my new watch.
I agree that perhaps their profile has diminished over the past few years, however they have been, and remained on my radar since the Williams affiliation back in the early 00’s.
I was unable to find the exact iteration of the ProPilot I was seeking locally, so I opted to purchase mine from an AD over 5000 kilometres away.
I had reservations about making a “blind” purchase as the models available locally did not live up to the photos I’d seen, however my new watch is exactly as I’d hoped.
Oris has taken to advertise in sporting arenas all over North America, so perhaps their profile might grow here.
It’d be a shame to have this wonderful watchmaker lose its footing. I am a fan of many of their offerings.
I've heard that the Aquis is their best-seller, and that seems reasonable. In light of that, I guess it makes sense for them to make only minor changes. The upgraded Aquis is the result of many (admittedly) small design decisions which should be interesting for those who look and think about those things, and I'm surprised you didn't discuss them.
My silver face Artelier is my favorite watch; it is my primary dress watch. I'm more protective of it now since my mother's passing.
Oris isn't "disrupting the watch industry."
I've had 3 Aquis including a 400 in blue on the bracelet but now have a basic black on the strap and love the simplicity of it. I also have a white face rectangular, a big crown date on a canvas strap and an older BC3. I love that so few people know the brand, their independence and the quality you get without spending a lot of money. But I agree I couldn't justify spending on the higher end models.
Feels like they are having a creative pause, after working hard on their own Kaliber.
It does seem like a lot of their energy has been spent on working around their own movements (more focus on that and less on many of the other areas) well said 🥃
Oris used to have such funky designs in the 90s/early 2000s aswell. Stuff like a divewatch with a regulator complication for example. Wish they did more interesting stuff
Their 90’s pieces were so cool and it’s true. Almost as if they’re asking whether the risk is worth the reward (valid question) - still, how cool would it be to see them return to basics? 🔥
To your point, marketing (classic and social media) is arguably the most important thing in the watch space. Unfortunately, Oris can't afford to compete in that way. I still love my Oris Miles Tonneau...
In my opinion, Oris has many things in their favour, like being an independent watch brand or having a long history. Oris has also some distinctive features like the pointer date in some watches, the possibility of a10 year warranty on their movements or their their servicing recommendation of every 10 years....
Having said all this, I think that Oris should focus on innovation on any level (movements, designs, eventually complications etc) in order to offer innovative good value for money. Being independent, and having much less marketing expenses that the big brands, Oris should have much more freedom to achieve that.
Great video👍
I watched this video three months ago and just rewatched it. I almost never do that, but the critique is that good. I recently went to my AD where I had bought my Oris two years ago, and he's stopped carrying them. I looked online, and now it seems like they're only offered by online stores in my country. No bricks and mortar place has them. That speaks volumes about where Oris is heading. Someone should send this video to Oris with the hope that they get their heads out of their a before it's too late.
I adore Oris watches. Their slacking reputation makes them even more enticing to me.
Always best to chase the watches that don’t receive the attention, my favourite part of this game too 😉🥃
Exactly! Well said
The big crown pointer date, but with the modern design and small seconds. Is one of my fave watches ever, its a bit too pricy for an oris imo to get anytime soon. But i wish they focused on that line more.
My favourite as of now too… I’ve tumbled down their rabbit hole since making this video. Imagine that Grey/Ghost dial was available to all of us?? Prefect template for a modern-vintage inspired piece 🔥
@ID-Guy i actually prefer the current baby blue, because i already have a grey dial in my collection. But if i didn't they grey would be my fave too. but it was $4k+ and now they just raised the prices. I wish they has as many colors of that one as they do the classic pointer date.
I appreciate what Oris are doing and think in house and incremental changes to well loved ranges is good. I just don’t gel with their designs. They offer something different and I appreciate that.
They've always battled with that "through-line" design that marries all of their pieces together - but man, a model like their Pointer Date (I've fallen down a rabbit hole recently) Sublime 🔥 Oris could do so much with their pieces, offering more for less. Well said 🥃
@ID-Guy thanks for this video about Oris. A brand I really like, owning a few of their watches. They are like the Swiss Seiko? Too many variations, maybe consumers are paralysed by too many options/variations? I gravitate to older Oris, there seems to be more effort put into the details on the dial back then rather than just printed dials.
I’ve got a vintage Oris big crown pointer & only 3 months ago bought a Oris big crown pilot! Fantastic watches! I’m still looking to get an Oris 65!😎👍🏼
I think they started to play the up-market game as many others (*cough* Seiko), and their cheaper models got more expensive than the competition, whilst their top offering became priced closer to the likes of Tudor. I think they will be just fine, as it seem like a deliberate strategy and they will still bounce back once they'll find their place. It will just be harder for them to appeal to the shallower pockets, but they are after a different market share now; sad but true.
I have a Big Crown and I love Oris ….
Really enjoyed your video
Oris should rethink their passion for the art of creating watches and invite people to give out testimonies from different models
I was listening to the head guy at Oris talk at Watches & Wonders a year ago. There was so much silly talk about Kermit, Muppets, Oceans....I got bored and annoyed and turned it off. What about watches!!?? One more thing: can you please, SOMEWHERE, state the accuracy of the movement?? I buy a COSC watch for $1,500 from Formex and I am happy. I wanted to like Oris....but it didn't happen. Now I don't even think about them anymore.
Going down the novelty route has lots of issues - staying power being something that always takes a hit. I don't think we understand their marketing strategy enough (or who they're targeting) And as for accuracy, honestly I've never even looked into their new calibers but I'd imagine they're COSC rated. Formex is another name that deserves a shoutout 😉
@@ID-Guy this is tony-in-utah, by the way. Regarding accuracy, if they are COSC then they should say that. They don't. am wierd - I need a watch to STATE, in writing, what the accuracy is. For example, I was in Japan recently and visited the flagship store of Grand Seiko (so much fun!), and found a REALLY cool Credor with a mechanical movement. I had to look for it, but the accuracy stated -10 to +15, which is at the outside limit of what I would accept. It actually runs about +2 per day. Also, good job on the video today, as always.
Formex is a great brand. Glad you chose that one as a point of comparison, I really like what Formex is doing. More people should give them a chance.
They do state the accuracy now on their website with the new updated Oris Aquis date .
@@MikoTheTomCat Good to know! Thanks. But information that is still very difficult to find. There is a reason Rolex makes crystal clear "-2/+2" - because people do indeed care about accuracy. I had to google Oris accuracy and some site stated "-3/+5", and if that is indeed the case Oris should put it next to things like Power Reserve and service intervals, and make the accuracy spec crystal clear and easy to see.
Interest commentary ID Guy! The brand that lured me into watches back in 2000 has to be my first purchase ever, a simple Movado museum black dial with a single silver dot at the top. Since then it’s been Breitling, Omega, Seiko, Tudor, and now I’m on waitlist for a Rolex left hand drive GMT or submariner w green bezel. Oris on the other hand has never had the IT factor which made me desire it enough to buy one in the collection. However I wouldn’t argue against its quality nor robustness. Cheers to another week my friend 🎉
Interesting how many of their pieces lack that IT factor, right? Love the Movado museum… some very tasty pieces you’ve picked up over the years Mr Long 😉 Thank you as always sir and enjoy the remainder of your weekend! 🥃
Oris is my favorite brand, but lately they haven’t done much that grabs my attention. I remember when the Cal.400 came out and had all those issues and instead of facing it head on they stated it was “part of the charm” of the movement itself. Matter of fact I’m wearing my BCPD right now that I got for a MASSIVE discount at the AD. I’m optimistic about the future of Oris as I feel they’re going to do something that will make the brand catch some wind in its sails, but as of right now, it’s kind of bleak. Not to mention their price increase for not much more watch.
If you had to put percentages on the word "massive", what would it be? (asking for a friend... )
@@alexandreblanchet8856 50% off brand new in the AD
@@alexandreblanchet8856 I replied earlier but I don’t think it went through. I got it for 50% off brand new at the AD
I thought I was listening to a young Anthony Hopkins for a second. Great voice
I love Oris and used to own a fantastic Divers GMT worldtimer (odd concept that I loved: I regret I sold it to finance another project), a great-designed Flight-timer Day-date and black-pvd F1 Williams chronograph. All great original designs that were far away from mainstream trends! All very effective tool watches!
Now, I think that you are right. Their decline is due to this exhausting "race for the trends" in which they are competed "upward" by Tudor (for the dive watches) and "downward" by Christopher Ward (for eg the last Twelve X which is 2000 euros less expensive than the Oris skeletonized pro-pilot).
I mean, I live a stone's throw away from the US Oris Service Center and from my interactions with the owner and those working the front the impression I get is that the brand is thriving. They recently had to move into a new (larger) space after being in the same space for over 30 years to accommodate the demand. The comments section would have you believe that the brand is dying. I think Oris is less about sensationalizim and show and more about making sound/incremental decisions when it comes to their portfolio. They still offer plenty of LE for those who are looking for something different/unique but the core of the timepiece is still there. I have four Oris watches in my collection and plan to add more in the future. I appreciate the breakdown and your thoughts tho. I don't see them changing drastically tho. Which is what I like. :-)
I do think they are still doing some cool things. I picked up one of the limited edition 3D printed carbon fiber case Coulson ProPilot watches with the gorgeous gradient red/orange dial. And I think the caliber 400 is awesome. And it seems like they are integrating on models like the Aquis similar to Rolex.
I own 7 luxury watches and, while Oris is in the least expensive third of the collection, it is the only brand that appears more than once. Indeed, they’re the only brand for which I have a list of pieces I’d like to collect in the years ahead. Anecdotal evidence from a watch tragic ✌️the business’s financials will tell the ultimate truth of the story.
I love Oris. You make some good points here.
I long liked Oris, but didn’t buy one until the caliber 400 in an Aquis. I wanted the better movement and was willing to pay more. I also got a 400 Pointer Date, found it with a huge discount. They are nice watches for the price.
As a confirmed long-time Oris fanboy - I have three ATM - I reluctantly have to concur with much of what you said.😏
They're such great watches... just prepping this video made me go down the rabbit hole looking into their Big Crowns (with their new calibers) I love those models with the pencil hands. Clean, simple (I'd have that Holstein edition with the ghost grey dial in a heartbeat) Alas! Oris deserves better 🥃
Agree entirely. Divers 65 range is visually appealing. Personally, just don't like the Aquis range - but this must be a big seller for them.
I like the late 90s, early 2000s BC3 pilot range. I picked up a 7511 chrono almost complete for $350 USD. Amazing watch!
Oris jumped the shark with their in-house movements. It was like when your drinking pall marries and moves to a 3-bed semi in Chingford.
The hour hand. I mean you cannot un-see it, can you!? 😂
Oh man… you’ve just reminded me…
I think one miss on their part has been not to distinguish their in house movement watches from those with eta/sellita ones. If they understood value to be their calling card, surely they’d understand the role projection of status plays in watch buying.
I also have to say the eccentricities of their in house calibers (which is not exclusive to Oris) also plays a part.
All said I still want them to do well, one of the few large scale affordable independents. Cheers
It's that little "5 Days" indicator on their dials.. but who would know that if they weren't into watches? You're right, distinguishing marks are everything (especially when prices double) Well said here as always Fahad. The brand has so much to work with. Man, it would be cool to see them have a resurgence - offering more for less 🥃
@@ID-Guy I have a feeling they can turn it around pretty quickly, and I’m for sure looking forward to that
When I consider my own 12 year watch journey : Over time, I moved from Rolex, Omega, Breitling to Formex, Traska and Baltic, skipping Oris in the middle.
It’s a shame as the big crowd Wings of Hope is one of my favorite timepieces and their boutiques and staff are really nice.
It feels like we're in the age of the Micro-brands, partially due to the inaccessibility of Rolex and the constant price increases of Omega. Brands like Christopher Ward, Zero West, Erebus (bought one) and others seem to command the attention that brands like ORIS used to. I have an ORIS Aquis and I love it. I also think ORIS doesn't have the deep pockets for both R&D and Marketing given they're independent.
Excellently said Steve. There’s a lot more to be found (for less) from many other names 🥃
I got back into Swiss watches thanks really to the Oris TT diver! 44mm, 300m, stainless with those polished outer links, the RED Rotor! I felt like a millionaire wearing that. It had style and value. I’ve long sold it and never owned another Oris, but it laid the foundation for my love of this “hobby”!
I love oris, and their older watches are amazing. I also love the cotton candy colors . Though the watch i want of theirs just seems too expensive by about $1k, and its not high enough on my to buy list to get anytime soon.
Their Aquis and pointer date are such good watches
But as you said - did the cal400 make these not the value buy they once were
They are such great pieces! But it’s surreal that the step towards in-house turned off many of us (price seems to be the No.1 factor always) 🥃
I think around the 4 minute mark hit the nail on the head for me personally.
I picked up the aquis, 65 and pointer second hand and loved all three. None of them have in house.
I cherished them and still own them but I can't bring myself to spend that money on new models vs putting that toward names up market.
I'd love some other color schemes of the aquis and yet... Too redundant in the collection.
Strange how it goes, right? It's hard to justify spending double for what is essentially the same watch. Thanks for sharing this Kyle, I think we all share the same sentiments 🥃
All very good and valid points IDGuy. I don't blame Oris for giving us 'different' dials that few if any asked for but if you miss the trend then you miss the boat to a possible quick fortune. I do like what Oris is doing for good causes including the upcycle. The in house designed cal 400 watches are a fair chunk of cash more but at least Oris are giving us the choice in a lot of cases to choose the call 400 or a 3rd party based Swiss movement. Oris are a small independent brand that has the ability to move quickly compared to the 'group' brands that have to go through the corporate budget approval malarkey against other 'brands' within the same group for the money. Better marketing could certainly help out a lot as you mention. As for the updated Aquis line? I'll pass on upgrading mine. The changes are a subtle improvement and that's OK, Oris are not going to pi$$ of existing owners but could attract new ones. Anyway I'm waffling now so I'll leave it at that. Many thanks for sharing.
Yes, you're spot on. With the in-house movements and different positioning they priced themselves out of their market. And in their new market, there is fierce competition from brands with much bigger bang. And dare I say, also better design. There's nothing wrong with Oris, but both their designs and their brand are a bit meh.
A watch that is technically as prestigious as Rolex in fact it’s technically more prestigious because they made their own movements. One of the few independent brands at reasonable price level.
Miss my old Oriis 65, perfectly balanced with the 12,3,6,9 and well integrated date wheel at 6 and glossy black dial.
How cool was it? I think deep down, the one thing that become the biggest detractor (and it's so minor) was the AR coating on the crystal. One of my pet peeves is owning a black watch (or any colour) and all I see is blue when I least expect it 😆 Absolutely nothing to fault about the OG 65 besides the AR (and I couldn't afford to keep it at the time with new pieces coming in) Alas...
@@ID-Guy Probably the biggest detractor for me was in my mind. If it is a diver why is it only 100m? It is stupid since I will never dive.
Pedantically, is there a question mark missing (MvDR)?
Always enjoyed the appearance of the Oris 65 but for the price, but other brands compete with it strongly on movement, bracelet, more (?), so ...& I really want to support independent brands.
There is a question mark missing 😆 Don’t worry, it kills me too (appealing to YT’s algorithm)
Personally, I think they have innovated quite a lot in the past 5 years- especially for a true small brand. The new caliber is a fantastic value proposition. In my opinion, they owed us a more comprehensive Aquis refresh and I wish we saw that at WaW. I'd also like to see a fresh take on the standard ProPilot, as this line feels pretty stale and sub-premium compared to the Propilot X, Aquis, Divers, and Big Crown.
Still have my Aquis and would love to add a diver 65. I think the Sellita variants are good value. I hadn't really noticed no one talking about them on RUclips but most of the channels ride the hype train watches anyway.
Oris paid the price of chasing trends instead of sticking to a style. I was a big fan of their Oris TT divers with its bold chunky polished bracelet links, the bracelet gave me an impression of absolute strength and unreserved quality (maybe because they weren't stingy on the amount of metal put in), when they came out with the Aquis range, that style remained, and confident that this is their design language, I bought one and enjoyed it for years, every time I look at it, I feel STRONG! Then post 2017 they changed the bracelet to thinner versions for sissies who complained about the thickness, in the name of elegance and more wearability. I felt betrayed. Its like our vision no longer align. I feel like an employee with a new boss who had taken over and I am not happy with his style. I found nothing I like to buy, so I bought other brands. I realized they had threw away the style that attracted me. When the colorful dials were released for the Aquis, I though oh man, thats a suicide blow. Eventually I sold away the chunky Aquis I loved and went Seiko with Strapcode Hexad for more chunky thick bracelet fun.
I’m a huge fan of Oris, good solid value and very reliable as long as you stay away from their in-house caliber 400 movement. 😊
I own a Big Crown Pointer Date from 2002 and an Aquis bought when the model was relatively new. Recently whenever UK retailers advertise online sales you'll find Oris well represented. Their Pro Pilot X seems permanently heavily discounted by many ADs to £2500. That is good value but Oris' RRP is close to £4K and this one I'm sure they had high hopes for.
Love the eariler Pointer with pencil hands. That should be a mainstay (and advertised heavily) it's such a clean design! And the ProPilot X had all the making of a great pieces in their eyes, right? Ti case, In-house caliber, great all-round design, but I think even in a video I made about it 2 years back, the dials had no depth to them. Another collection of theirs they could revamp (but maybe the ship has already sailed) Well said as always sir! 🥃
I own four ORIS timepieces, the Pro Diver GMT, the Pro Diver Dive Control Limited Edition, The Aquis GMT Blue Dial, The Big Crown Pro Pilot GMT.
I was introduced to this brand around Christmas of 2022, two weeks earlier I had bought a Tag Heuer Aquaracer GMT Pepsi Calibri 7.
I do like Oris for their Price point, and Quality. I've worn my Pro Diver GMT to work, it's a very durable watch and keeps excellent time, the Lume is brilliant and at a glance can read the time.
I wouldn't mind getting a Omega or a rolex though
So well said, and it’s a shame because everything you said was true. I love this brand. An Aquis was indeed my first “good watch”. I’m all for the Cal 400 and I may eventually get another Aquis 400 at some point second hand. But one other thing : they’ve been leaning so heavily into 43.5mm watches. Most of the interesting LEs they do are in gargantuan sizes. I feel they’ve lost their way a bit.
Seeing that 2021 Holstein Pointer Date (think it was 2021 - with the Grey/Ghost dial) Why did they never make this watch a regular production model? They have so, so much potential to make killings with these ranges. And I'm also seeing how the 43mm size is becoming their primary. It's odd, right? Noticed that was in all the marketing material with this years Aquis 🥃
They would have to push and offer something you want. The marketing department is definitely slacking here. Its literally disappeared now and not in your face and talked about. Only new myself to watches and bought two Turdor already. Was at one point considering Oris, but now not so much. Still a great watch and has everything you need, but you do need that push to wanting one. Personally, I feel you have hit the nail on the head on this 👍
I think Oris tried their big marketing splash a few years ago with the e ProPilot X Cal 115. I absolutely bought one, pre-owned though, because I couldn't justify paying $7+k for an Oris. And that's the rub. They probably needed to build slower and inch up like Longines, with a series of bangers to build equity and mindshare before going large with a high horology piece. Moreover, they have a disjointed design language. Are they looking forward, with the ProPilot, or backward with the Big Crown? They just need to streamline, I think, and they'll be fine.
I love oris. In fact it was and still is the first watch in my collection. Best thing about it is their independence. Not many brands are. That actually became my collecting strategy. I believe all my watches are from independent brands. As someone else said in comments "oris is for people in the know". I don't think there are flippers of oris watches. Once mainstream will stop buying watches as investment oris will shine again.
A really interesting take. I like the brand. But, as you say, I think they’ve made a mistake on focusing on novelty watches (Kermit) and fashionable colours (cotton candy). They also suffer, as an independent brand, of not having the marketing budget of the big conglomerates. And then they raised prices too much on their calibre 400 releases. And yet they make some great watches . I’m currently looking closely at the big crown pointer date calibre 403 (pencil hands, dark blue dial) as my next watch. At the Oris boutiques it sells for $aus6000. That feels too much. But I’ve noticed ADs are now offering a 25% discount on the entire range. So $aus4500 seems reasonable….
Exactly the same as you! BC Pointer with those pencils… I’ve fallen down a rabbit hole! Imagine that Grey/Ghost dial was a main model and not a limited edition? Frankly, if I was pursuing Oris at the moment (never say never) I’d be picking up a Pointer Date like you described, love their take on the newer variant 🔥
Oris is advertised in Yankee stadium. Was just there last night and it’s still there.
I’d like to see an Oris Don Mattingly. That’s a watch I’d buy
Oris has bad service centers. I bought a 65 numeral, party because of RUclips reviews in 2016 I think. Great watch. Fast forward 2023. I sent the watch for a service in one of their service centers. Everything went downhill. The watch came back filled with dust specs, on the dial, under the crystal, on the hands .. everywhere. So I sent it back. It came back better, but the black lacquered finish got damaged around the hands set probably because of the removal tool. At that point I'm like **** it, I'm gonna live with it. Then, first time in water : condensation under the crystal, the crown was not water tight. Sent back to Oris .. it came back but again with dust everywhere. At this point I gave up. It's been sitting in a drawer for a year now. I'm done with Oris, forever. I've moved on to Omega and I can say with confidence that Oris is a waste of money. Just get that Omega .. don't waste your time with Oris.
Wise words. Go high end Omega and get good service, or go low end even a San Martin watch and enjoy it and if something happens to it - no big deal. It seems with Oris - you get the worst of both worlds.
Wow. Guess I’ll stay away from Oris.
Interestingly, my Oris ProPilot X Caliber 115 attracts far more attention than most of my other, more expensive watches. It boasts an impressive 14-day power reserve and is extremely legible. However, I've never seen anyone else wearing this watch, and despite this model and the absolutely impressive Caliber 400 watches, Oris is still often referred to as an entry-level brand.
I am also considering the new Oris with a laser dial, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. It looks like something that would normally generate a lot of hype. The design is a statement in itself, mature, and distinctly unique.
I would love to see them go full brushed finish on the bracelet for the Aquis
I’m fine with what Oris is. IRT the Aquis, they’ve gotten to the fine refinement stage. It’s a great line. Yet still solid DNA to the original TT diver line.
I have two Oris, Aquis GMT and Propilot X, I love them both and they're easily the equal of some more expensive watches I have. The Cal 400 is really great. I don't know why they're losing veiws, the watches are terrific. Rolf Studer could do with being more visible, hes so passionate about the brand that it raises your interest.
Was so close to pulling the trigger on an Aquis. It is stunning and I've tried it on a lot of times. But now I've moved towards Helm. It's less than a quarter of the money and far more versatile. Plus ISO rating helps.
I think great microbrands have really taken away Oris market share. Christopher Ward is better value. The Aquis is still amazing as a luxury piece. If i was in another tax bracket i would buy the whole Oris range! Lol
You can get an aquis for under 2k
@user-df2mn5bx2q still very expensive for the average person
Not just an Oris problem I think - leaving aside the perennials like Rolex, Omega, and stepping over the MoonSwatch lunacy, the Swiss watch sector seems to be in a real funk right now. Almost like they burned the ideas candle out through the covid spending boom and are left with pretty much nothing new to bring to market.
With the global economic drop off, I think it's now going to be a survival game for the next 4 to 5 years - I think many are either saving for a genuine big ticket thing like Rolex (now you can actually buy them again), or content to muck about in the cheap seats with G-Shocks, Microbrands, AliExpress stuff, and so on. The $2000-$5000 bracket now seems to be a no man's land where they're either not really much better than the entry level, or so expensive you may as well keep saving until you're into Omega/Rolex/etc.
I love Oris, their Simplicity with their Aquis, The Cherry was my favourite and regularly sought after but they quickly raised their prices, and even with dealers sales they are still overpriced IMO. With In-house it was introduced and respected. However their price increases completely diminished any positive reviews
As a baseball and particularly Atlanta Braves fan, I have the Hank Aaron Limited and I love it - beautifully made with terrific attention to detail and a very wearable size. However, nothing else in their catalog really appeals to me
Loved the underrated 2005 Chronoris, and agree…It seems they’ve lost their way for many of the reasons discussed here. But…Who remembers The Sopranos episode in which two are presented and included in (Sir) Ben Kingsley’s awards show ‘goodie bag?’ If one had only made its way to Tony’s wrist, the Day Date might’ve had some rotational competition 🤔 😂
Don’t forget that we now exist in a VERY crowded space that Oris once dominated, the micro brand/independents. At a recent watch show, there were dozens of new brands that have filled into the $500-$2000 space, where Oris once existed. Now they have gone up market with some real pedigree and house names, and that’s really tough to play in. Be the big fish in a small pond or a little fish in an ocean?
I love my Aquis, I’m wearing it now and it’s pretty much meant my Tag and my Christopher Wards don’t get much wrist time. In fact my wife picked an Aquis for her birthday as someone who isn’t a watch enthusiast instead of Tissot and Longines at the lower end but also ahead of TAG and Tudor at the higher end.
My purchase of oris aquis was in 2020 and I never thought I would make a regrettable choice with aqua green , so far no plans for upgrade, maybe change the bracelet to a rubber strap
They've got very expensive with the Calibre 400 movement, though it's meant to be good. I like their watches, but at the price point they are at, there are simply too many other options that I like more and look better, with maybe more brand cache.
Except trying to set the things accurately
Great piece as always - showed some real bangers from before I was this deep in the watch rabbit hole. Agree with the majority: they went up in weight class which is already full of heavy hitters, coupled with the up and comers beneath them. The eco stuff and silly Kermit offering doesn’t win them any respect from hardcore watch enthusiasts.
Still plenty to like in Oris' range. Each new release is strong. Their quality of construction is high and they release novelties that do get people talking. I think the issue is the YT platform, where content creators just bang on about Tudor or Rolex. YT has become spectacularly narrow, dominated by an 'aspirational newb' herd mindset, with very little to say. You throw a resurgent Tissot, Longines and TAG (who were all asleep 5/6 years ago) into the mix and Oris is just plain squeezed. But they're still out there, making great watches...
Well said James 🥃
Oris is a weird spot. Their product is excellent, they have VERY stiff competition at the price point that they are at.
They just don’t have the hype, but the product is excellent and has a lot of value.
How odd is it, right? Being “squeezed” by so many names on all sides of the spectrum 🥃