The Powerful New Ideas Linking Autism, Trauma, and Consent
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- There are two powerful new movements sweeping through mainstream culture that are going to have a massive impact on the way society views autism. It all has to do with a culture of consent and trauma-informed care. But what does that mean for us? Taking ideas around consent and trauma seriously could benefit everyone because if an adjustment is good for autistic people, it’s probably good for everyone else, too. In this video, we break down the powerful concepts of the Culture of Consent and Trauma-Informed Care, explain why saying no and creating safe environments to avoid triggers are essential, and show how adopting these adjustments can benefit everyone.
🎞️Timestamps:
0:30 Introduction
2:36 The social pressure to ignore how you feel
3:06 What is consent?
4:30 The Culture of Consent can change interactions
4:45 How did the global pandemic affect this?
5:20 Asking vs Assuming
8:38 Trauma-informed care
8:34 What is Trauma-Informed Care?
10:37 The Body Keeps the Score Book
11:25 The Overlap Between Trauma-Informed Care and the Culture of Consent
13:15 Two Questions to think about
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Loved working in Japan. No hugging, no kissing, no hand-shaking. Everyone bows. Its also contagious. After a while, you do it without thinking.
Quite high amount of sexual harassment in Japan though
@@SkuuOC-name sounds male, so yeah they are probably not to aware of that.
The confusing societal rules over touch and consent are sadly why autistic people are at higher risk of sexual abuse.
Remembering how my autistic brain struggled to understand the difference between being told I must give Grandma “a kiss goodbye” and coercion from other adults who clearly spotted me as an “easy mark” sends a shiver down my spine. 😔
We must do better for each successive generation of all children.
Same. I never wanted to kiss grandma either... why did I have to. Why couldn't I just give her a hug. It was sensory overload... the old lady moth ball smell, the scratchy whiskers, the feeling like I was in a vice grip and being smothered....
It was much easier for much older 2nd cousins to force me into improper touching by my cousins... and even at that young age (4-8yo) I somehow knew that if I told my mom, grandparents etc I would somehow be blamed, wouldn't get the justice I needed (even tho I didn't have the words for it) and feared being blamed for causing a rift in the family....
I was in my late 30s when I had my kids...
And was smacked in the face by all my cptsd relating to not being protected by family came roaring up.
Becoming a mom made me realize, and gave me the courage, to aknowledge that I was severely let down and scapgoated by those who were tasked with protecting me.
@@april6620 Your grandma ...my aunties, I empathize. However you would not have been born without your Grandma's contribution,so a kiss is the least she deserved...it's called respect.🤨
@@reedbender1179 nope. That is abuse and it takes away your child's sense of bodily autonomy.
Just because someone chose not to use protection doesn't mean I owe them anything. That's what abusive parents tell their ckids as a method of controlling snd manipulating them.
Rapists abuse this type of requires hugs and kisses behavior, they sneakily push the boundaries as they groom the child into thinking that it's normal.
This should not be seen as an autistic brain quirk; being told you must kiss someone is coercion no matter who they are and should not be considered acceptable just because it was not sexual.
@@DarkSaber-1111 I completely agree with you. Expecting/demanding a child to comply physically with any authoritative figure is opening a door for potential future traumatic experiences. Not only does it leave a child feeling uncomfortable, but it may also make them feel as if they have no emotional support, enforcing the idea they won't be protected or have anyone safe to go to if something bad happens to them. There are many potential situations this may apply to, potentially leading to childhood/complex PTSD.
I remember a vacation where the camping ground was beginning to fill up and my anxiety reared its head. So I asked my partner if they'd be very disappointed if we had to cut the vacation short because of my anxiety. They said: 'No, it's alright with me if you want to to leave sooner.' And just like that my anxiety dropped so much that we didn't have to cut the vacation at all.
Having a conflict free way out is so so so important!
I can understand that. If my head starts worrying it can help a lot is someone with explains everything is under control and I'm free anyway. This is very important for me at work.
often situations that are fun are situations I was headset against. I almost never feel like going out. A little conflict doesn't kill us. We rob our own lives of life when we don't allow ourselves to step outside of comfort levels.
this makes a sentence pop up in my head that has been there ever since I was a teenager. I never quite knew where it came from. metaphoricly: lock the door and I will climb out of the window, but leave the door ajar and I will propably not even think about leaving. I only now fully understand what it means.
We need an "ejection seat". I have a feeling that the confidence provided to pilots, by the knowledge that they can quickly eject, is likely to make them less likely to need it, as they can keep calm and solve the problem. This is also true for autistics, even if our "ejection seat" is slightly different.
I miss the six foot distance of COVID times. I’ve never felt more comfortable around other people.
It wasn’t great for my persistent fear response...something REAL that you can’t see coming, but could kill you! -but yeah, for the first time in my life, physical boundary rules matched my predisposition. And with masks, nobody could see expressions well, so thinking about what expression I should have was off my plate too.
Same. Until everyone started insisting on sticking a needle in me
@@reedbender1179 To most of the world Covid is real. Especially when you know people who died from it.
I'm not gonna lie I used that 6 foot rule to snap on some people to gtfo when they cramped me
Agree
Great topic!!!
As a child I HATED being touched! I was undiagnosed, so it seemed strange to everyone when I hated being hugged or touched. To this day, my mom often guilts me for “her own daughter not hugging her,” when she knows EXACTLY why I don’t. Before I was diagnosed, I would literally tell her that it felt like acid to my skin to hug people.
In the sixth grade all the girls had to do scoliosis checks which involved changing into a TINY halter top that literally only covered our chests (that we all had to share, mind you) just so they could run their finger up our spine. The whole situation made me INCREDIBLY uncomfortable. They were so mad at me that I wouldn’t change into an extremely revealing top (when I was a chubby Tom-boy at that) and let them touch me. They made me out to be SO SILLY that I wouldn’t just get changed and let them touch me like all the other girls. I kept saying, “why can’t you just lift my shirt?” And they couldn’t give me and answer, but they also wouldn’t let it slide. After days of me REFUSING to get the scoliosis check, they called me mom who immediately agreed with me. She finally just ended up making me a hospital gown that I could put on so I they could just open the back slightly and do the check. When they were done with the two second process, the nurse literally said “wasn’t so hard, was it?” And I snobbily and sarcastically responded the same thing back the her. I felt so violated and no one could understand that.
I LOVE 6th grade you so much - she is the coolest EVER and I would definitely want to be friends with her for being such a badass in the best possible way. That situation seems horrific.
Not to be presumptuous but that 6th grade thing seems incredibly suspicious. Why just the girls? Boys get scoliosis too. And why that specific clothing? Why the insistence on it without a willingness to give a reason? It all just seems... Fishy. Maybe that's normal where you're from or something but I have not heard of this and find its implementation deeply concerning
@Rayne Gallaher my country does that too and the boys just take their shirts off. for my country we didn't have to change into something else tho, if you were wearing a hooked bra you could unhook that but if you're wearing a sports bra you'd have to take the whole thing off. though they'd place a curved ruler thing on your back and not need to touch you with their hands
Your response to the nurse was 1000% appropriate. I did not have your particular experience, but what I was aware of, growing up, was that the view of many adults (not my parents, but others) that NOTHING an adult might insist a child should do could possibly be considered an unreasonable violation of the child’s personal autonomy, yet ANY objection a child might have to any instruction was a massive violation of that adult’s inalienable human rights. As I think about it, growing up PDA in an authoritarian-to-children culture is probably my main traumatic element in a childhood that was not that hard in many ways. Not having people accept it when you tell them “no” does not only become trauma upon reaching the age of 18, aka the “age of consent.”
Which is a curious thing now that I think about it. At least in the US, “age of consent” means that an adult cannot
insist that a child consented to engaging in a sexual act. The usual rationale is that a child is not yet mature enough to understand what they are agreeing to. That’s one possible reason. Another would be that children are taught that saying no to an adult is not an option. I would guess that, while that rationale is ignored, it is a far bigger factor. But to acknowledge that, a society has to recognize that children are capable of being rational actors, and are entitled to establish some boundaries. Which should not be a radical idea, but...many radical ideas are in fact blatantly true, but unpopular with authority figures.
@@raynegallaher7661 I'm a retired School Nurse. Boys and girls are separated during these scoliosis checks. It wouldn't be unusual for either gender to not even realize the same thing was going on with the other gender.
I am horrified about how you were treated during your scoliosis check. Have some compassion, folks! Wow!
As a trauma survivor who is also on the spectrum, this made me want to cry because so few social spaces in my life are set up like this. I isolate a lot because and need a lot of time to recover from unsafe spaces. Thank you for making me feel less broken for doing so.
Hope this work becomes more widespread.
"I need a lot of time to recover from unsafe spaces"
Wow, that's me. I never put it into words like that, you just opened my eyes.
I feel same. Thank you for the words.
I've never felt the kind of care he's described... it made me feel simultaneously safe and also robed of an entire life of never being treated with care from medical providers to family/friends. I never feel safe opting out of anything without consequences.
Question : Why should society change for a minority ?
I have a somewhat humorous story related to consent. A female coworker was walking around the building on her last day saying goodbye. We were work friends, but not social friends. The two of us chatted for a polite amount of time, then she leaned in for a hug. I reflexively backed away, then immediately felt embarrassed by my reaction. She took it well and said "You're not a hugger." I didn't know that about myself.
Edit to say that this happened almost 20 years before my autism/ADHD diagnosis. I had no idea back then.
My parents need to take a page out of her book lmao
Phew I'm glad that worked out, I got some anxiety for a second.
I had something similar happen to me. When I met a female online friend in my teens for the first time, she went for a hug and I immediately backed away. Or so the story goes, because I can't remember a thing since I had a blackout. She told me the story afterwards and I was shocked about my behavior.
I am English. Non autistic. I dont recall anything other than a peck on the cheek within the family and never even that among friends. I grew up in the 1950s into 1960s. We, didnt hug. It was a cultural thing. My very best and very good UK friend and I have never even shaken hands that I can recall but shared lots of (often hilarious) intimate secrets.
I do recall a fellow student nurse though commenting on the fact that we didnt normally hug on meeting before nursing but, and I think she was right, because nursing is such a physically tactile job we, within the group, did hug on birthdays and other special occasions.
I now live in Spain which is a much more touchy culture and think nothing of giving a good friend a hug and even acquaintances a peck on both cheeks on meeting. Normally this also involves a hand lightly on the other's arm. I would normally shake a male aquaintance by the hand though.
I dont know if US culture is more similar to the uk.
Similar story: my small company had a number of people who were prone to hugging. It came up partly because we were in different parts of the country, and would only see each other on joint business trips. I coped, but yes, in retrospect it would have been easier if I'd been given a choice most of the time, even if I said yes.
A co-worker who I was friends with (and who shared some of my neurological challenges, though I think not autism) did ask, on parting ways in the airport. She said "I know you're not a hugger, but can I hug you goodbye?" (Even though I'd never refused, I guess she could tell.) I appreciated her asking, and agreed. On another occasion, I was dropping off another co-worker at the airport, and when we got out of the car, there was this awkward pause where I waited to see if she wanted to hug. She probably felt the same awkwardness, and neither of us made any move. I sort of smiled inwardly, and thought, "okay, she doesn't want to, fine by me!" -- and we said goodbye and parted ways.
It may have played differently to her, because she was female and half my age. She may have assumed that I wanted to hug. I agree that this would have been inappropriate for me to initiate...I was also the senior employee, though not a supervisor. But the awkward pause probably only lasted about a second, and I was my usual 6-10 feet away. Surprisingly, I didn't feel my usual RSD post-social discomfort, because whatever my reasons, I had correctly respected her boundaries. I've always been proud of my ability to treat women as friends, co-workers, etc. without feeling the need to flirt or make advances, long before I realized I was hard wired to be that way.
"If you are under duress, your yes doesn't count".. 🙏 Thank you for focusing on this.. It feels like a mine-field..
There was a case last decade in Europe of a men who got away from R***** a minor after claiming to be too thirsty to control himself
As a woman (who is also autistic), it's even more relevant, especially around men.
so... the experimental medicine mandates were actually forcing people. They fired people all over and people accepted a world where consent isn't respected. Many died of myocarditis and other side effects because our society doesn't give a crap about consent.
This needs to be on a t-shirt, so we can spread the idea faster!
Are you japanese?
This is major. I learnt form the youngest age to systematicaly ignore my (autistic) feelings to please normal humans needs around me. How then was i supposed to develop a sense of self and a sane peronality... But i'm working on it now, rebuilding from the ground up, and yes today's consent culture help a great deal. For instance, co-wrokers tend to respect me more when i pass on social activities.
The societal pressures to become a neurotypical are huge. I feel that the most when it comes to people talking about far travels all the time. I can't talk about it, because I can't handle travelling far away. All the uncertainties give me a lot of stress.
Allthough, while I agree on te topic of the video, I think it's not wrong perse to sometimes doing something that feels uncomfortable but makes other people happy. Like attending a meeting after work. But there must be a balance, it can't be justified the autist always has to experience the discomfort to always make the neurotypicals happy.
Every person goed through developmental fases. Figuring out who you are, setting boundries goes for all people
I love this! When I was in first grade, my teacher complained about me not hugging well enough and assigned hugging practice, which was traumatic for an unknowingly autistic girl. I'm happy changes are happening for children.
Omg. I wish I could go back and have a little talk to that woman about that. Grrr. Sorry this happened to you❤
@Scott's Precious Little Account touch can be quite painful for some of us on the spectrum, so yeah a child being submitted to painful situations without consent can be really distressing
@@scotta4564A bot dropping lines? I’m curious - what would be the purpose of a bot posting something that on topic and specific on a channel in which it’s not out of context?
Jesus, even apart from the fact that you were later found to be autistic, the idea that someone could be "bad at hugging" is ... something else.
Assault as practice. Awful
I LOVE consent culture. Its so good for everyone. But it's so nice to have "no" normalised. Friends who say "hey can we do this, it's cool if not". Makes so much of a difference. I hate having to read between the lines and worrying about the impact of saying no. Am I going to upset someone? Am I going to be declining this thing indefinitely? It's so nice to have things much clearer. And also to feel like if someone doesn't focus on consent, if they don't ask, it's okay that it makes me feel uncomfortable and I'm not just "being silly"
Yes! I hope this gets normalized fast!
Yes, we have to remember the people who find it hard to say no. Remind them that it's their call and they're not a reject either way. Learn to take no for an answer.
We don't forget the needs of those who aren't afraid to speak their mind, do we? They make sure of that. 😂
it kills romance. I can't imagine asking a girl if you can kiss her. That's so anti romantic. That kind of consent culture is built to make life less awkward but it also makes it less fulfilling. It kills spontaneity. the first kiss can be something that is kind of magical. both people don't know if it's right yet or they leap right into it. Both have something to say about he person's personality. Consent culture is a type of conformity that makes it harder to see the poetry in life. Inserted people tell you how you are supposed to see them?
@@MicahMicahel you evidently don't know how non-verbal consent works, and that's pretty darned important. What is "magical" for you can be disgusting or disturbing for the other person.
You can't read minds, so until you learn about non-verbal consent, you darn well better ask. If you tried that move on me I'd kill your romance quicker than you've ever seen, no matter how much of a poet you think you are.
@@MicahMicahel Let's say you kiss a girl but she didn't want to be kissed. How is that romantic?
My life as an autistic person would have been so much better if I had grown up in this kind of culture of consent. Thank you for talking about this!
I really like the move towards increasing autonomy and consent, I'd like to see it continue. Children at school are coerced in many ways to participate in things they don't want to and I dislike adults forcing them to under the assumption they'll enjoy it once they start, sometimes they don't and it really damages trust and safety.
I have noticed that medical staff are doing a lot more asking before touching and I like it even though I'm usually comfortable with touch because it creates an environment of explicit respect of boundaries and patient experience.
authoritarianschoolingcouk
Wish it was around in the 80s when I was growing up. I have ASD and ADHD
I agree with doctors needing people’s consent even if it’s a heart checkup or anything else that can happen in medical routine. My doctor doesn’t ask for consent and it makes me super uncomfortable :(
Growing up in an Indo family (Indonesian-European) I was horrified as a kid for having to give éveryone at a birthday party 3 kisses on the cheek. There were só many aunties & uncles that would pinch your cheeks and say “do you know who I am?!”. It was overwhelming and caused so much anxiety, but my parents scolded me and laughed that I was ‘overreacting’. Glad I’m grown now 🙏🏼
At this point I'm pretty sure I'm autistic. However, it's been ruled out by psychologists who dismissed my symptoms as either not real, not severe enough, or caused by a bilingual upbringing.
The first time I encountered a culture of consent was with my current colleagues. Not just with autistic symptoms, but also with celiac. Suddenly, no one cares if I drink beer or wine, if I talk all night, or sit out a conversation or two, if I show the appropriate emotion, or if I just let out what comes. It wasn't about me shielding them from my "issues", it was about making sure I don't sacrifice my health for their convenience
I find actions speak much louder than words, and by the time we tell children they're allowed to say "No", we've already shown them a thousand times not to.
Autistic/Neurodiverse folks are mostly “ask culture” in my experience. This means asking about doing things like hugging, but also asking about things like what restaurant you want to go to. There is a significant population of the US, especially in the Southern states, that is strongly “guess culture.” People who are Guess culture expect you to read subtext, and don’t want to have to ask about where to eat or whether to hug. Asking *incurs a debt* in some or even many cases in that culture. The askee is not really *allowed* to say no to a request unless it’s egregiously not ok. This has been a *huge* problem between me - ADHD person raised in Northeastern US, where I am expected to be direct and I HATE “passive aggressive” behavior - and my probably autism-spectrum partner who was raised in the South. His “rules” state that he can NEVER ask for anything for himself, and that he can’t say no except in extreme circumstances. So even saying “can I give you a hug” doesn’t actually elicit consent from him, because he can’t say no. It’s quite crazy making for me, since he’s constantly “reading into” my responses for subtext that just isn’t there. I’m direct, often painfully so,” and I just say what I mean! Sometimes I’ll say yes or ok to things I’m only meh about, but if I really mean no, I’m likely to just say no.
For him, I need to be careful how I phrase questions. I’ll often say something like “I’d like to do x, but I’m open to suggestions” rather than either “can we do x” or even “do you want to do x.” “Can we” comes across as a request and his rules interpret that as a demand (can’t say no). And “do you want to” comes across as me asking him to state a “selfish” or “direct” preference, which he won’t do either.
So in general, I advise phrasing such as “are you a hugger?” Or “do you hug?” Rather than either “can I have a hug?” or “do you want a hug.” Both of those allow for a no or “not really” response that has less baggage in my experience.
And yes, hugging with someone who is an enthusiastic yes is GREAT!
This is a really important point. Many very direct people just do not understand how they come off to those who are not and vice versa. Your description of your husband matches my mother 100 percent. Thank you for articulating that. She is also a southerner and from an older generation. Getting a direct statement from her is like pulling teeth. I never understood why until your explanation. I think a lot of research in the U.S. is done by people who tend to be more direct so some of their suggestions may not work on people from other cultures.
autistic person raised in the south and it’s so hard ;-; because with NTs you’re also expected to know if them answering “yes” is under duress or not and then react accordingly. it’s the worst
and then i also am incapable of giving a direct response because i’ve been trained to never be rude and the entire thought process is draining. thanks for the phrases tho i will be stealing :)
I appreciate your clear examples for helping people access their own voice in a compassionate, non-judgemental way. Explaining how framing the question is perceived and finding a way to improve communication is beautiful. Thank you!
Yes this is such an important topic! When I was a minor I was forced to go to therapy against my will and when I would tell my therapist that I didn't want to talk about something, she would just say, "that's not an answer" and continue to pressure me to answer. Totally ignoring the fact I was attempting to deny consent. I was also forced to take Prozac against my will. When I refused consent and refused to take it at home, I was forced to go to the clinic to get injections, despite the fact that the psychiatrist promised me that I wouldn't have to do anything I didn't want to at the beginning.
From these experiences, I learned that people are entitled to do anything they want with me and that my consent is not necessary or important, which carried over into my romantic relationships in a very bad way. As an autistic woman I was already very vulnerable to abuse, and this made it much worse. I was not able to say no to a lot of bad things that happened to me in relationships, and I didn't even understand that I had a right to try to say no.
I did try to date another autistic person once, but it didn't go far, and I think a big part of the reason was that neither of us knew how to talk about what we were uncomfortable with. For example I had learned tactics to become comfortable with group settings, but he wasn't comfortable with it, but instead of telling me he wasn't comfortable with it, he would just not respond if I asked him to come to such an event. I am much better at masking than him but I struggled too because none of the scripts or personalities I had created to get along with neurotypical people worked very well with him and I wasn't sure what to do. I feel like if we had been better at communicating what we need, things could have been a lot different.
I had a similar experience, and some of it I relate to Georgie Stone's address to the National Press Club this week. Georgie Stone had to be able to convince a judge that she was mature enough to take puberty blockers. When I was 12, I had to go to the doctor, and my mother said that she would try her best not to get me an appointment to see a doctor she knew I didn't like. She also said that I wouldn't be going during school time. To break that down a little, I was in my first year of high school, and I say, in the last semester of Year 12, if you're striving to go to university, you should aim not to miss a day if you can avoid it. In the first semester of Year Eight, you can be a little more flexible. We had an appointment to see a doctor who I thought was okay, but she was running a little behind schedule. The receptionist asked my MOTHER if she wanted to change the appointment from her to see the doctor she KNEW I didn't like because he would be faster. My mother said yes, and I had a meltdown! I felt betrayed and I had trouble trusting my mother again. I asked my mother, after the appointment, why she did it, and she said that we could have been still waiting to see the doctor I thought was okay. She wanted to get my brother's hair cut and the next day was a public holiday and I thought, "Okay, her own inflexible thinking was to blame. She could have said, "Okay, it's a hop, skip and a jump from the barber's shop to my father's work, and the barber knew my father and that my father was his son. So, my mother could have driven down to the shop with my brother, given him the money to pay the barber and she could have, either, a) asked the barber if my brother could wait there and she'd come back and collect him (the appointment was at 4pm, and the barber's shop closed at 5:30pm) OR, b) told my brother to go down to my father's work after he'd had his hair cut and my mother could have collected him from there. As it was, two months later, I had to go to the dentist, and the dentist was about five doors down from the barber's shop, and the dentist wanted to talk to my mother (I'd gone to see the dentist by myself) and the dentist's nurse went out into the waiting room and my mother wasn't there, and she returned and asked if there was someone else waiting in the car, and I said, "No, she's probably gone to see my brother, who's down getting his hair cut." So the dentist had to wait for my mother to return to talk to her! I felt as though I didn't matter in my mother's eyes. As she tried to do it to me, several more times, and succeeded on two occasions, I knew I couldn't trust her (I couldn't trust the doctor, either). Yet my mother was vehemently against me changing doctors when I was legally old enough. I wanted to change for two reasons. One, I wasn't happy, and two, I didn't trust the doctor not to say to my parents, "Oh, by the way, Peter was in the other day."
I have a bad reaction to antipsychotic meds. My doctor said he understood and prescribed me sleep meds, that are anti psychotics and result in bad side effects. After I told him, he insisted that they weren't antipsychotics because he prescribed them for sleep. I guess he thinks being a doctor is magical.
Dang I didn't know that kind of stuff happened in regular therapy. I only experienced it in conversion therapy (minus the injections, they didn't do that). I'm so sorry that happened to you, and that it had that effect on you.
I was 27 when it happened to me (am 28 now), and what it's done for me is make me angry and distrustful of therapists in general (because these f*cks were actual licensed therapists), but I was aware enough to know that these 'therapists' were in the wrong, and that my consent should have mattered. It was still traumatizing as heck. I can't imagine going through that as a minor. That's just sick.
I had similer problems with mental health and dermatoligy "treatment" as a kid.If docters don't listen to the paitent it does more harm then good I don't understand why they don't know this
@Ryn Yes, I really hate how people assume that therapy is automatically safe and has no risks. The therapy I went to as an adult was not so traumatic but ineffective and I think I can comfortably say that I never want to go again.
I'm not LGBT but I feel like what I experienced was a type of conversion therapy. Conversion from an autistic weirdo to normal person. And whether I wanted that conversion or would be happier with it was completely irrelevant.
I grew up with expectations and no consent, and now I'm terrible at self advocacy.
Me too. I'm getting better slowly
Same
Being diagnosed later in life it's a really odd experience to be told by people around me that my discomfort is enough of a reason not to do something (or do it in an accomodated way), even when it comes to bigger societal expectations like having a full time job etc. I kept asking people where the line was of how to know when I should just put up with discomfort because it couldn't be helped, but they keep insisting there isn't such a line and my discomfort is always valid. It's a good thing obviously but it's a lot to process when looking at the severe discomfort I grew up with. Like I'm on disability benefits and not working right now, but I know I was definitely struggling at least as much if not more as a child in public education, and I'm not sure how productive it is to think about what that could have meant and what my life would have been like if the adults in my life were aware of how I was feeling.
You sound like my son, dx at age 19. Kudos to you for becoming aware of how you feel. Lets hope this movement really takes hold! It will help all of us.
I absolutely love how the public is becoming more aware of mental health. It's basically the only thing giving me hope right now.
I can recommend the book "complex PTSD from surviving to thriving" by Pete Walker. There is a big overlap between autism and complex PTSD and this book has lots of ideas for managing and understanding our stress response. It has been life changing for me. Thanks Paul and keep up the good work!
I think anybody on the spectrum should be expected to also have CPTSD, because of our issues with personal autonomy vs what other people consider working boundaries. Just the whole concept of "something's wrong with you, you should be okay with this," in any situation, touch or not, is enough, imo.
@@MelissaThompson432I completely agree with you
@@theatrerimbaud3672 💙
Yes,that is an amazing book!
Thank you for the recommendation❤
Both consent and feeling safe are so important (and respectful). It would be lovely if this could become more common in society.
I have an autistic adult son. Plus non autistic adult kids. This has always been rules like this for all of my kids. This is normal for us. ❤️🕯️
Thats really great. Sometimes i see somone make their kid submit to sonething and it kinda digs my stomach. Like oknits uncle joe now but in future it could be uncle creepy.
I think it can also make autistic people weaker. People often need to be able to be pushed into things. We have to push ourselves. SO many autistic people will never find love because our psychiatrists teach autistic people to be unable to live with others.
@@Padraigp I think this is just selfishness. When I was a kid I had to kiss all these old ladies. It wasn't something I ever wanted to do but it would be rude not to. They lived for such things. Autistic people are being taught to be people that will never be able to have loving relationships because they will be too particular. It's okay in life to do things you don't want to do. To teach people such a thing isn't a favour to them.
@@MicahMicahel nobody is teaching austistic people to never Kiss old ladies. What the actual fuck are you talking about? Lol! You have better relationships because you were forced to Kiss old ladies? Did you even listen to yourself before you said that out loud?
this is awesome! i was a quadruplet and the only one with autism, my family thought i was evil and purposely being difficult in a malicious way. thanks for being understanding of ur autistic son:)
I started to realise, I'm an autist, Asperger, when I was close to 60, explaining myself, why I was always so different, so weird. Always top of the class, IQ 149, HSP, highly functioning anxiety, I took much of the knowledge about my condition from the internet. My spiritual path startet 25 years ago and there also I was top notch and took 1 1/2 years where others took 3 to 5. Socially, I've always been the outcast, people not suspecting, much less believing that I am an autist. It is a very lonely life where I live. Many of the people who accepted me as I am have died over time. It is nice to be reminded by your videos about the differnces between people. Thank you!
The fact that you cited your IQ
is in itself very autistic . Autistics seem to take pride about things like this . They like this recgnition .There's so much more than IQ though .
well... my metaphor for that is to be wandering above boreal zone, ridge of montains. there are villages fown there, at times one visits for errands, there are socializing events, dance, bbq whatever - but one doesn't (get to) truly belong. and the air up is cleaner anyways.
"Universal design for learning"
"Allowing for processing time"
"Giving people information in advance"
- I love this x
"Allowing people to access information in a variety of ways"
"give people a no-questions-asked opt-out option"
That was the other tip that stuck with me.
@@semolinasemolina8327 Thanks for putting up some tips from the video to read for those who are visual learners. I was about to post a comment requesting a list of key takeaways from this video. Is that all?
@Cozmeaux Nimbus from the top of my head - it was something like "what helps people with neurodiversity, actually just helps everyone" - so if we incorporate these takeaways into our social impact design in our projects, or advocate for them in our organisations and experiences, then we are helping our selves and each other. And that's really important. X ❤️- I made it sound like Mr. Brady
Funny story, I was introduced to trauma informed yoga in 2014. I've been hyper fixated on the neurobiology of trauma since. I didn't realize I was Autistic until last year 😅
I've not heard of trauma informed yoga before. I think there's likely a rabbit hole I'm about to disappear down. 🤓
Ahhh same! Yay for new nervous system and trauma rabbit holes!
@A Rich -a new nervous system?? Where can I get one???
...oh, you meant s new nervous system rabbit hole! Those are good too, but for a minute there I was hoping... :)
Hold it there a moment - kids not wanting to go to school...
I remember all of my schooldays from infant to leaving and I hated going to school. I was always in the top class and always came came in the top few in exams but I hated going there, so I missed a lot of schooling. I had few friends and was frequently ridiculed and bullied. I was good at my studies but hopeless at the social part of it all. As I grew older (in school), my differences became more apparent. By the time I left school, I was thought of and treated as a weirdo. This is going back to the 1960's/70's when there was no knowledge of autism in the South Wales coal mining valley that I grew up in - it was a very macho, tough community. We were not permitted to aim above our station; if we did we were thought of as being aloof and not belonging in the community. So, I left as soon as I could. The story goes on but I won't expand upon it here...
Similar to my experience in primary school in NSW in the 60s and 70s. Teachers who would mock and ridicule in front of the class, allowed to physically punish infractions, add in an indifferent alcoholic father, and a physically abusive mother.. 🙄
Left wing romanticising of those coal mining communities is proved lies delusion fantasism and not listening.
@Scott's Precious Little Account I have just turned 61 but I can still vividly remember my grandmother taking me to meet the headteacher before I started school as an infant. She said I would have to wait until the next holiday to start and I cried on my grandmother's lap because I was eager to start there and then. When the day came to start, another boy, Anthony Fitton, started the same day. At first, I loved school but as time went by and my eagerness to learn more and more set me aside from the other kids who had less interest in learning - befitting of the community I grew up in. I had a very busy mind and a capacity to learn fast; my peers did only what they had to in order to get by. I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just saying it's different to the norm (in my case). This separation increased as the years went by and I ended up with a lot of great exam results (even though my eagerness to go to school had by then almost vanished) but I had few friends. I had become a bit of a loner because I felt that wherever I went, I didn't fit in. What was expected to be a successful career life became what it is now - being on the scrap heap. By the way, I only found out I am autistic a few weeks ago - it was confirmed by my GP earlier this week and I have now been referred to someone else but the wait could be a couple of years. If only society had better awareness when I was a kid, my life would have been more along the lines of the manuscript I had in my head, instead of what it is - a tale of failure! Nevertheless, I can at least now see the light and try to turn things around.
I spent most of my schooling 1990s/2000s in months long shutdowns I remember next to nothing but I still have nightmares about it. I fled screaming as soon as I was legaly able and it was the first time in my life I'd ever felt safe.
Every day: Trauma.
I stayed away.
The problem was seen as staying away.
This will be great for a lot of people who are suffering with learned helplessness
Yes!!! That breakthrough comes for me when I realize that I do have options. 🎉
Yeah. I struggle with it a lot.
I especially like the short part about a child not wanting to go to school, and redirecting the focus away from the child not wanting to the reason, why the child does not want to. That is a really good question, and it can be applied to many different parts of our everyday social interactions. That can even be applied to people being offended by others wanting to opt out of something simple as a hug or handshake. Why does it bother some poeple that I don't want to hug them?
That was a good video. It was very well structured, and there is so much going on besides the consent culture idea itself. I liked it very much. Thanks.
It only works if the parents care about the child in the first place
I think clear direct and honest communication between people is important. Especially about things that make them.uncomfortable. I was bullied in school so I started skipping school and one day my father caught me instead of forcing me to go back to school he listened to why I didn't want to go back. This made a huge difference for me. My father is also on the spectrum so perhaps he had more insight into the issue than others. I would like to believe that the culture of consent will catch on. I don't know if right now I really believe it will. Simply because.of the constant experience of being expected to give hugs or look into people's eyes and the very negative reactions I had when I refused to do so. I do believe people understanding and caring about consent would improve things though.
Yeh I gotta agree with you.
I think these ideas will get hijacked and used for some other agenda like always.
Might stick a little in the places where it likely would have existed anyway and they might be better able to defend that position because of it?
I was bullied all through primary and secondary school and in the workforce
I've been noticing a lot more focus on explicit consent in fanfiction, too. Fanfiction is a great place to explore the whole range of consent issues -- in good relationships, in bad relationships, in mixed relationships, outside of relationships, the whole mess of human interaction. And because fics let you see what each person was actually thinking, it's easier to have a clear idea of what was really going on... as opposed to in real life, where you at most know the internal assessment of one participant -- yourself -- and can't tell whether a person whose surface appearance is X is actually anything like X on the inside (e.g. a person can gaslight you by pretending to be nice or oblivious when they're really trying to push your buttons or bypass your boundaries in little ways that increase over time).
A few years ago, I wrote a giant one-shot (like 10,000 words) on just two guys negotiating their relationship and navigating a serious disconnect in their respective ideas of consent. It was prompted by a fic I'd read where the characters seemed to not grasp the difference between Consent and Desire -- they had the idea that if you didn't *want* to do something, you hadn't *consented* to it, and I wrote my fic to explain the difference. Because we consent to things we don't want, all the time -- and there are also things we *do* want that we don't in fact consent to, and our desire alone is not enough to establish consent. There might be any number of reasons that you choose not to do something you really want to do.
I do think that some people overlook nonverbal consent, though. Most of what we communicate is done nonverbally, and Neurodivergent people do have a handicap in navigating this means of communication (either understanding it or conveying it or both), but that doesn't mean it's pointless or unimportant. For most people, "are you okay with a hug?" is conveyed through the body gestures and expression -- open arms, a smile, maybe some raised eyebrows or a head-tilt or the like -- and most people understand this well enough to either move in (if they want or can accept a hug) or nonverbally refuse. And Neurotypical people should get some schooling in what it looks like when a Neurodivergent person doesn't pick up on the message.
But getting people to accept "no" as an answer, without any fireworks, without any resentment or future drama... that's an uphill battle, but I'm glad we're fighting it. That needs to be basic.
I would also draw a line between consenting and non-contesting/yielding. If a family member wants to hug me, I don't desire it and don't consent because I am not creating the choice to hug, I put up with it for their sake by yielding to something I would never have initiated. That's not a positive agreement to hug, that's two negatives I'm choosing between. If someone starts talking and annoying me, I haven't consented to the distracting convo, but I will keep myself from telling them to shut up. Very different from actively choosing to engage in a convo, since I'm not engaged when I let them ramble on without listening to them.
I recently started a group for ADHD/autistic moms in my area, and I was trying to decide on what kind of environment to facilitate. I've been thinking a lot about how to explain bodily autonomy to my son, as I want to raise him with the understanding that he can say "no" to any touch, unless it's something that absolutely needs to be done for health or safety. I've applied to grad school in the hopes of specializing in communication disorders and autism, and I would want my future clients to feel exactly as you described in this video. I now have a solid concept to anchor the ideas that have been floating around in my head: The Culture of Consent.
You once described yourself as a "pattern thinker" and said that you needed to understand how a piece of information fits into a concept to remember it (I hope I'm paraphrasing that right). I'm the exact same way, so when I say thank you for sharing this concept, I really mean it. Every new concept I learn helps me to understand the world better, and to me, that's an incredible gift.
Concent is truly a personal issue in so many situations....from childhood to old age.
I wish this was a motto and a value that everyone grew up with. ❤
The concept of consent is an interesting one when it comes to senior care, especially when dementia is involved
@@nobody8328 that's fair.. but the attempt should be made whenever possible....and when it isn't the person who has to decide should do their best to try to honor the other person and what is actually best for them within their own...um....personality I guess is close enough.
Many of my interactions with online friends or irl friends around my age group are very much part of "consent culture." I used to hug my little sister all the time, but I've recognized that she really didn't like it and now I make sure she's comfy with hugs before I give one. Another sister of mine (sister by choice) always reassures me that there's no pressure to call her if I don't want to and we've made each other feel comfy enough to know the other will stop with something if it's too much and we don't have to be ashamed for our boundaries. It's amazing. I had so many boundaries broken as a child, especially boundaries people should've recognized as autistic traits. Consent culture is so important and I love it so much.
Although it ties greatly in with consent culture, the best moment I experienced with trauma-informed care is my first time with my boyfriend. The moment I was hesitant to keep going, he stopped and that was it. Nothing else, just cuddles. That's the moment I first thought "I'd marry this man." Again, it ties in a lot with consent, but for me it's more about how *safe* I feel around him.
this is off the topic of the video, but I really enjoy how you sometimes look at the ceiling to talk. My classmates in highschool used to point out how I'd do it every time I talked in class, and eventually I got self conscious and made myself stop. It's been such a long time I kinda forgot I ever did it! I just realized how comfortable it is to see someone else do the same thing, even in a video :) hope I'm not making you self conscious by pointing it out, just wanted to say thanks for reminding me of an old habit that I'm totally gonna start doing again. great channel
OMG I've been wanting to say the same thing 😅 thankyou.
@@heathermalone Wait, so I'm not broken for staring up at the ceiling to talk or sing?
@@SarafinaSummers No, not at all
I love this video 💜
I grew up learning that I have to put myself in very uncomfortable situations because that is what is expected of me and I just have to override my feelings. That has put me in very bad and dangerous situations and screwed up so much of my life. As an adult I’m constantly working on reprogramming myself to listen to my feelings and put myself first, but it can stil be very difficult in this society where so much is just expected.
Thank you for your story. From where I'm sitting, it seems whoever taught you these things had misunderstood quite a few things.
There's a concept called "Exposure therapy". If done correctly, it can be very useful, but if done incorrectly, it can be exceedingly harmful. Seems you got the harmful version.
EDIT: I'm not a Healthcare Professional, merely someone with ASD who has had positive experience with this type of therapy, so discretion is advised.
The correct version requires careful planning and "listening to your own body's danger signals" (for lack of a better expression). Say for instance, that you're afraid of spiders.
Find a spot where you can safely observe a relatively small, confirmed harmless every-day spider, from a good distance.
Sit/stand and observe the spider for a short while. If you feel crippling anxiety, you're overdoing it. Cancel the experiment, recover for a few days, try again from further away and perhaps for an even shorter time.
If you do not experience too much anxiety (ideally, it should, at most only be mildly unpleasant - very mildly so), the experiment can be considered successful.
Upon successful completion, the experiment should be tried again the following day, only take a single step closer than you were the day before. Repeat until you can stand within arm's length of the spider without discomfort.
This is exposure therapy in a nutshell. Careful and gradual exposure to the object that causes distress.
It is paramount, however, that the principle of "baby steps" be very carefully observed (hence the above "listening to your body's signals). If the exposure "experiment" causes too much distress, it will cause the anxiety to get worse, rather than getting better. If people push the sufferer without respecting the sufferer's own boundaries, they've messed up, and instead crippled the sufferer further.
Also, the experiment should only be conducted, when the sufferer is mentally prepared to make the effort. It should NEVER be done, if the sufferer is overburdened with crippling stress or general exhaustion. It needs to be approach from a calm, and safe position, otherwise it will fail.
At 55 I'm currently still working my way through the last batch of garbage that got on top of me.
Done this so many times now and it's getting harder.
I know the pathways clear better but the abuse has scared the patterns in so deep now that I'm just not healing from it very well as I do get clear.
@@Typanoid O I can relate to that one. What I thought was 'social anxiety' actually was not that. I wanted to be left alone most of the time, because my brain went in overload.
I remember my elementary school days. I HATED going to school. I was bullied, harassed, even assaulted (one blonde kid pushed me around) and no one did a damn thing. Not the teachers. Not my parents. Not the other kids. No one.
I tried refusing to attend, but my parents told me I had to go. It was the law. I tried hiding out on the periphery, but the teachers forced me back onto the playground. My only escape was when that blonde bastard set his Karen of a mother on us and I had to transfer out of there.
I also hated the classes. If you tried to predict my future performance from those you would conclude that I would be "mentally disabled" but that was because I didn't understand the purpose of the classes. I was being told to jump through hoops but not why. I later found the joy in learning, but certainly not from my teachers.
Truly understand this, you're not alone
Yes, we do have a right to say no - and no, we do not have to put up with people violating our space. I can see that now but I will watch the video a few times over to fully digest the content.
I love this!!!! I have been reflecting on what a horrible experience it has been forcing our adopted 17 year old son through public school in Northern California. I wish we’d handled it differently in hindsight. I listened to authority figures that I believe now, were just wrong.
You outlined the implications of these ideas so clearly, Paul. Before the cultural movements began, I heard them from a Shaman who was my counsellor for a while. She was the only person I ever heard voice them. When 'flying monkey' gossip was about to bring me down, her advice helped me through with my selfhood intact. "No exceptions as to who, where or why, you have the right to say no if you're uncomfortable." 👍
as a citizen of the united states, i feel like the culture around me is a massive part of the problem. literally everyday feels like a battle. it is constant confrontation, argumentation, competition, and dominion over others and they way that they feel/act/behave. it is hard for me to imagine a cultural experience where people not only understand but embrace a culture of consent and concern for trauma free environments--rather, it feels like most people in a position of power thrive on having a "consent free zone."
“enthusiastic consent”
Have you spoken on the balance between respecting someone’s comfort level and “pushing” (but not pushing) them to reach their “best”?
Example: I used to struggle greatly with driving a car. Over time, situations arose that forced me to push my boundaries and while it was very stressful initially, it led to me being much more comfortable on the road and in my capabilities. So gauging what is discomfort that can be improved versus genuine hard boundary. I’m terrible at explaining, home it makes sense.
I think it's a very important point that, knowing you are fully of a right to opt out when you feel you can't handle things does make it easier to initiate that 'pushing of boundaries', because it ultimately feels safer, knowing that if you do get in over your head more than you can handle, you can back off and it's perfectly okay. There is a massive difference between pushing yourself into discomfort willingly to try and reach a goal, versus *being forced* to tackle those stressful situations with no safety net, no option.
So many things I have major, catastrophic aversions to come from that 'sink or swim' kind of social pressure, where you are simply expected to just jump in and do it, no matter what.
Discovered I am autistic 1,5 years ago.
All kinds of diagnoses beforehand, due to childhoodtrauma's.
Paul's video's help me a great deal in accepting my autism, my flaws (in the eyes of others) and to be proud of my hidden qualities.
Looking forward to this post!
I have mixed feelings about consent... because as you pointed out when we're little we are asked to do things that make us uncomfortable all of the time, and that became my way of masking. If given the choice, I would say no to so many things. I'd happily live like a hermit. But actually... not so happily. Because If I'm asked for consent I will just push people away when what I really want is someone that cares about me so much they want to express that. If I have to approve every interaction it makes me feel bad because I interpret asking for anything and then getting it as an obligation. It doesn't feel honest for me because of how much I've had to suppress my own discomfort that I interpret that as being disingenuous. So I kinda hate consent because I don't want to have to approve or deny something I just want someone to give things to me freely not out of concern but because they honestly care. And I know this is a kinda dangerous mindset but my self esteem is so low that I don't feel like I deserve anything unless it's freely given. I have so many mixed up feelings that I don't know if I'll ever be happy with the concept of consent because I have so much trauma involved in *wanting* anything and people telling me I have "rights" and then saying that no actually I don't in practice. How can you "fix" that kind of trauma? How can I trust anyone I ask for help unless I know that they are getting something personal out of it? So much of my life has been masking how I feel that I can't even tell which part is me, which part is what people have said is me and which part is the mask. There is just too much jumbled in my head to be happy with anything.
I’ve been or am in most of the places you’re describing. For multiple reasons, some of it PDA, I can’t cope with feeling like I have to approve or deny everything either. I can’t really explain it, but there is some version of this that focuses on the person asking consent just being in a good space and being focused on wanting me to be happy, as if, say, a hug was a gift, but they wanted to make sure they were getting me something that would make me genuinely happy. It’s very different than if it feels like someone is saying they want to do something but is worrying that they’ll upset me. That’s asking consent, but it doesn’t feel good because it feels like they are assuming that I will react badly, and thus superseding my own ability to control my situation...I feel I have been presentenced to being difficult, and the situation is out of my control. Somehow there is a way of asking for consent that doesn’t presuppose my answer, and is okay with whatever it is, and that version feels safe. My problem is that this is totally dependent on someone else’s behavior, which has all kinds of problems. But it’s also true that putting it completely on me -I just need to be okay with it whether it’s okay or not -also doesn’t work. I can’t say how to find a balance because it’s still eluding me.
I’m sending you warm thoughts, and I hope you are able to get closer to where you want to be. I have made some progress, so I guess these things can improve. I also want to thank you for sharing your feelings, because it is helping me think things about myself through more.
Tanice, I'm so sorry that the struggle continues.
I can't believe how you've articulated with such rich complexity that which I've not managed to work through -( I'm in my fifties with decades of counseling re ASC & multiple traumatic childhood & adult experiences) but has undoubtedly existed between me and others & seems to live in every difficult interaction to relationship.
I'm very grateful to have read your comment.
🕉️
maybe you could blanket consent to physical affection with someone and if you don't feel like it at the time, let them know somehow?
edit: this is not limited to physical touch, it could also apply to a social situation like for example, someone texting you that they are coming to your house to hang out. you dont have to say yes, but you can still say no
i get that! i have a similar problem (natural instinct of a hermit). usually someone pushing the question makes it worse for me, and presupposing my answer makes me feel trapped. what’s helped me a lot is being able to tell people “i’m not sure” or “tentative yes” because like the youtuber said, having an easy way out makes you often not need the out to begin with. so if i’m not sure, or i’d like to hang out but don’t have the energy, i say that (obviously it only works because my friends are usually cool, or tell me if i have to make a decision)
that way, i can say yes to things without feeling trapped or pressured. only works with some events but enough events to have a social life, at least for me
Love the “opt out, no questions asked” idea. So many past traumas could have been avoided if this was in place at the time.
This is good. Have worked as something like an assistant for several years in Disaster relief AND with mental health professionals in "regular" situations. I am glad to hear two things about Culture of Consent [consent being an operative word]. What we have striven to learn, apply, and teach for years has been what we call a Culture of Honor. First goal to honor the other person in all situations. As you said, the physical contact issue is just one area of application. It is very encouraging to 1] hear it in our context, and 2] hear that it is becoming much more common! And Trauma Informed Care... is one of our primary foci around disaster care! It has helped me more than anything. Im going to share this video with some pros in the work. I have been talking with an associate connected with US Government Disaster Work about "special needs" care in disasters including Autism as any special needs group is likely to experience the traumas more deeply. After working multiple disasters... this is really a good perspective, especially since you approached the two issues scientifically!
@@bones642 So sorry you went through that, but YAY for that nurse honoring you!
Thank you so much for this video! I will be sharing it with many people, I'm sure. I feel like I'm constantly saying, no matter the topic, "consent is key." Consent is much more than, as you said, the sexual context we learn in high school/college. It is bodily autonomy, plain and simple.
Thanks for this. My kids are teaching me about consent culture because I grew up in the grin and bear it culture. As a 54 year old, I have to consciously put aside the assumption that we should adjust our behavior to conform to social norms even if it makes us uncomfortable. My kids are part of the generation that are redefining the norm to an opt in versus an opt out (with social consequences) culture. I love that they challenge me to question the cultural social expectations that I received from my parents.
I can hear my mothers voice in my head saying “they just need to learn to behave the way everyone else does.” It’s nice to also have my daughters voice challenging that assumption that people have to change themselves to conform rather than change the culture to respect difference.
Hands up if hearing about this triggers all the memories of when you were treated like garbage because you were a child and/or neurodiverse.
(unfortunate side effect, I am completely in support of this change)
Im glad people ask to give hugs for the most part now. I have also been trying to advocate for myself more now by saying no if I don't want to.
I've also been trying to get people to understand that "we need to talk" only causes anxiety and I need at least a summary of what about inorder for me to regulate myself until we have time to talk. I don't think people realize what a negative association this has for some people.
Similar to the "we need to talk" people. I've been calling sending a text that's just "hey" emotional blackmail. It sucks you into a presumed conversation and you have no idea how much the other person expects you to commit to.
After talking to people who are "hey" senders. I realize they're often the type that has massive gaps on what consent is and they have abandonment issues.
It's so much easier, to say "hey, found a silly joke for you."
Or "hey, I'm how much time do you have to talk about that project were working on."
I have ADHD, autism and CPTSD. I am a hugger and I do it impulsively without thinking. This is really important for me, I need to reassess my behaviour. Thank you for sharing and also thank you to everyone in the comments for sharing their experience. I will be more considerate in future
well... I'm alike, ASS + CPTSD-wise, and passionate marathon tango dancer. The embraces are part of this, functionally so, that's fine with me, but I never kiss (which I find gross from the somewhere mentioned family induced transgressions to bear in childhood). and rel.ships last intense 8..15 min.s at a time. it's also fine.
I don't like giving people hugs unless they are close family. But I have offered hugs to friends going through emotional turmoil.
I’m a non hugger, and I have to admit that losing the physical contact was the one upside to COVID for me. Imagining that I could reject the idea that “I need to learn to hug better” with a clear conscience is indeed radical. That my hugging issues stem from dysautonomia and issues with emotional reciprocity, rather than sensory problems, makes it especially thorny. It’s not so much that I’m happy to be this way, as that it is how I’m wired, and I’d like not to made to feel it’s a moral failing.
The second part, what I am going to call “Consent Informed Care,” would be excellent but man do we have a long ways to go. It might have made my PDA mother’s life less hellish, because she might have felt safe enough to get care for some awful ailments. I very much appreciate the idea of approaching it from the standpoint of calming the central nervous system, because that was her issue, and one of mine - but mention hypervigilance and persistent fear response, and many professionals immediately dismiss neurology and heritable predisposition, and head straight for individual experience, nurture not nature.
I met George W Bush in 2006 and just straight up refused to shake his hand. He was _very_ offended.
A friend of mine took a photo at that exact moment and the look on George’s face is priceless. 😂
😂👏👏👏👏 you rock
I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want to see that photo. Reminds me of a local politician who literally chased my mother and us kids across a parking lot to speak with her (there was a critical by-election happening that could change the Province). We got to our car, got in all safe, and he STILL rapped on the window and waited until she rolled down the window to talk to her. It was AUDACIOUS.
Oh my gosh I loved that you said consent was the piece of paper! When I was 18 i had a really nice guy figure out that i was having sex without enjoying it, and he was like, “um, if I say ‘consent’ what does that mean to you?” I said something like, “you mean a permission slip in school?” But that was totally what it meant when we were kids!! Love this video so much, thank you for all that you do.
Would be such a relief to feel understood that it is a physiological reaction, as you say, for someone to really get it, but as you also say seems they often only really get it when have experienced it. I often try to explain it's physiological, on behalf of others too, but a niggle in me feels I ought to be more in charge of my physiology - I had acupuncture 10years ago which stopped the panic attacks I was having, I can still feel the emotional triggers but the whole cascade &' losing control' of body etc, shaking, crying, doesn't happen, I remember being like a wild thing in the job centre years ago I got triggered, was hiding under a table, wanted to leave the place, just get away somewhere quiet, away from the lights, and people, noise, the vibe, they wouldn't let me, I ended up feeling 'out of myself' could hear myself in the distance making weird noises like a distressed animal, no words, it was horrible. And the more they tried to 'catch' me to calm me the worse it got. Don't recall how it ended, just that I did get outside by myself, which is the quickest way to calm me, tho a supportive person with me would be lovely but very rare. Toilet cubicles were my safe place /respite. Lots of people online nowadays teach ways to re-regulate nervous system, vegus nerve exercises, breathing (often feels very difficult/cause me cry) Irene Lyon, Anna Runkle, Sarah Jackson, Peter Levine Somatic Experiencing.. So it feels like somehow my responsibility. And the unhelpful NT response many times to tentative explanations is to call it 'excuses' or to include themselves & minimise/dismiss my experience by saying 'yes, we're all on the spectrum a bit' or about DSPD (circadian rhythm Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder, only about 1%population worldwide tho may be higher, gets mixed up with insomnia, classed as an invisible disability, very little success in treating with meds, but neuroplasticity, nutrition, Dr Daniel Amen brain work&healing, avoiding blue light, qi gong etc etc feels to me there must be way/s to reset, tho it's been intractable in my life, tho cptsd and late diagnosed AS, adhd, etc, chronic health situ big puzzle.. & resigned now to comments like 'just go to bed earlier' & 'we all find mornings difficult'. A little kind real-interest and acknowledgment goes a looooong way.
"Just go to bed earlier" - The amount of times I've tried to explain to people that going to bed earlier just means I have longer to toss and turn, and be unable to switch my mind off...makes you want to throw things at them, doesn't it?! 😡😂
Yessssss, physiology! It’s so hard to get people to understand that a huge part of it can be the central nervous system. If I can turn my CNS down, I have a fighting chance at letting my cortex call the shots. When I can’t, my fight or flight literally suppresses my PFC. it can do that to anyone sometimes, but some of us have dysautonomic physiologies, and for us it is much worse. I know what you mean about sounding like an animal when it hit like that. Been there on multiple occasions, felt like a trapped animal, and it is truly horrible.
I fully agree with all of this. I once had a neighbor who opened up to me and told me about her social issues. So I suggested we made a deal that if I was at her place and out of nothing it got too much for her or not the right thing, she'd let me know, in clear words, and I'd leave, no questions asked, no grudge, no nothing. Also, she was the one suggesting dates, times and activities to do things together, and I could opt in or out, no matter what. It was priceless to be on a mutual agreement to be open with one another on that end. That worked great for the entire time we were neighbors.
I agree completely. I've always remembered 2 interactions I had in college (20 years ago, now!) that blew my mind at the time. I had a one-on-one meeting with a professor, and then a separate one with their TA, and both were deeply unsettling because they felt so *safe.*
I've attributed that feeling to different things over the years, but I think a huge part of it was that both of them were people who thoroughly and uncompromisingly believed in people's rights to chart their own course in all ways - big and small. It was such an unexpected gift to find that kind of acceptance in academia, and it made me realize how bereft I was of it elsewhere.
It would be decades util I got diagnosed with autism and cPTSD, and realizing more of *why* I need that kind of safety. But I'm so glad that I got that clear glimpse of it 'in the wild' so early, since it made me realize that it was possible to have it outside of close friendships.
More than half a century ago, my father tried to convince my two grannies not to hug and kiss me so often, because he knew I didn't like it then. Actually, to teach them something that would be now called the Culture of Consent. He didn't succeed in the least. :)
Now I am living in a space where these ideas do exist, but I must say it's not a big space in terms of the number of people belonging to it (and it really feels like a bubble or an enclave within the broader society).
I don’t think I’m on the spectrum or if by chance am it was never accessed or diagnosed, but I’ve never felt more seen and reassured by a video in my life
Another comment after reading comments. I deplore the Covid shut down and its devastating effects on children and small businesses, which I've seen first-hand. On the other side, though, the shut down was the first time I've ever felt safe in my life. There was no social pressure at all, I didn't have to socialize and didn't except some phone conversations that I could choose or not. It was largely because of this I came to understand that I'm autistic. After that shutdown phase ended, when I took a short trip where I went in to to the grocery store I became vividly aware of the rising anxiety in going into that environment and encountering people. (I'd been doing grocery pickup and ordering online)
This sharp contrast confirmed that I am greatly overstimulated by social environments and I've been gradually figuring out how to manage this. One thing I've cut out a lot is being around people who behave in toxic ways toward me. Other people who are well-meaning but don't get it are different. I may be anxious around them, but will try to figure out how to make it work better for me. One thing is to notice whether I feel they have expectations that I don't consent to. If so, how can I change that so I don't act on what I think are expectations. (Which may or may not be the case, but I assume that due to my social conditioning).
I'm 33 years recently diagnosed with Autism and ADHD.
Saying "no" have aways been a torture to me, that feeling of discomfort along with "having to do it because it's normal" aways gave me loads of anxiety.
That's a lot of childhood trauma in the mix too, not being able to say no to adults it's plain wrong.
As a mother of 2 Autistic people aged 51 & almost 55. I found your video very helpful. My kids grew up in 1960s & 70s their School days were an almighty ordeal, as they are also both dyslexic, which was not recognised by the Education system of the day. I myself thought it was something to do with shyness or something they were "going through". My daughter was diagnosed at 43 yrs old and my son is still not officially diagnosed. However as I get older I feel hopefully for the future of them, and other Autistic people. The thing is they both have incredible strengths, and amazing level of intelligence, and also compassion. They are both really good with, and enjoy the company of animals. I now am able to see their Autism as a bonus rather than a problem. Thank you.
As someone who is working hard to overcome my trouble setting boundaries and saying no when I want to. To think my daughter won't live in this world. It's such a beautiful thought.
I spend more than half my waking hours recovering from unsafe spaces/situations. I'm only now (@60yo) learning "NO" and dealing with the fall out of "refused nos" or "yes under duress" as a child, teen, young adult and adult. I am accessing both counselling and support workers to aid in this. Thank you Paul, for raising this and continuing the discussion.
I'm actually doing a presentation at a conference next month on this topic! Please do keep talking about consent culture and autistic communities. Consent culture is so important to having better lives. I'm reminded of something written by Sparrow Jones. We're taught compliance and not to even define our own desires. There's a reason why that UK study in 2021 of autistic women has such astronomically high levels of sexual violence. I just want autistic people to thrive and live happier, fuller lives on their own terms.
Your work has helped me a lot. My whole life, I felt out of place and kept being told I am wrong for being the way I am, being forced to "be normal". And while realizing I have autism isn't the solution to the problems in social interactions and such, it has helped me come to terms with how I behave and to stop blaming myself for being different. I hope that, in time, more people learn to treat people with autism better. As a content creator, I face backlash frequently because I misread social cues or say/do things that I think are okay and helpful but turn out to rub people in the wrong way.
This is awesome and I have ONLY experienced it in a theraputic setting. However, I would LOVE to see it become universally accepted! Thank you SO much for sharing!
I move in several spaces like this and really feel the difference you are talking about. I think as the world continues to be harsh toward the growth of consent culture, we need to keep making spaces that prioritize caring for people and meeting their needs in the moment.
I really enjoyed this and have also been reading The Body Keeps the Score, and The Myth Of Normal, which are both helpful for understanding trauma held in the body (including 'smalll t' trauma). I've seen somewhat divergent tendencies with the idea of consent post-pandemic. (Some) people do seem more physically cautious, but with noise people seem to be even more thoughtless and careless of others - I'm talking people watching chaotic Tik Tok or RUclips videos on full volume with no headphones on public transport! It just seems people still think they are in their own living room. Yes I can put on headphones - no these are not always enough. But I still feel that the polite social norm should be that if you are the one making the anti-social noise, the onus should be on that person to minimise their level of disruption to others!
Sometimes, it's because other people can't afford headphones. If you can afford it - bringing a pair to share is a solution a friend of mine used.
I’ve seen this in Rogers Center, the stadium the Toronto Blue Jays play in. I was dragged along to a game by family a few days ago, and discovered while trying to put up with the overstimulation that there’s a no-questions-asked sensory room to get away from all the noise and people. It was my first time enjoying a baseball game.
This is such a good topic. I was never taught consent... I was severely abused and often by ppl in authority positions. I now know I was taken advantage of bc I didn't understand consent or boundaries. I've really driven it home with my kids! I wish I had known...
OMG. I'm 55 and am just learning this. Thankyou AFTI.
I had undiagnosed ptsd/ocd until the age of 50. My masking is on a quantum level after 47 years of hypervigilance.
Love this. I’m 51 and ‘quantum level masking’ is EXACTLY right!! It’s an amazing talent that benefits others and leaves me feeling exhausted! I’ll isolate for a bit after social engagements just to find the mask eagerly waiting on my counter for reapplication.
This video is so powerful. I'm an AuDHD female person, and I had school refusal (due to bullying, sexual harassment, etc.) yet I was labeled the problem...nobody actually bothered asking me why I didn't wanna go. Even though it got to a level where I was sent to a mental hospital program for a month and was screaming and crying at the top of my lungs whenever my mum drove me to school. I've also had issues with boundaries both with family in general (stuff like hugs, opening doors, knocking, moving my stuff, etc.) and with men in the creepy way. (Don't think I need to explain this one more.)
A culture of consent would be so nice. I would probably feel a lot safer walking around outside.
I also would LOVE trauma-informed care. It's so hard to find doctors for a traumatized neurodivergent female person with chronic illness issues.
Oh my gosh, the no questions asked opt out would absolutely change my life! I'm a member of an organization and I have literally contemplated quitting even though I love it. I feel like unless I'm "legitimately" sick (meaning it's not just allergies or just an icky feeling that I'm not sure about), that I'm not able to opt out. We meet often and I would love to just be able to say, no thank you, not today. Then the days that I do go, I will feel much happier because I'm actively choosing to be a part of it. I think I would choose to go more often then I would choose not to, but having that option knowing that I wouldn't have consequences to deal with would be amazing.
Maybe it would be good to ask for a conversation about this, you may not be the only one feeling this way.
In grade 6, I refused to go to school one day & my dad grounded me. I said "ok fine, but I'm not going to school". He was old school, but still had the presence of mind to realize something was wrong. He yhlooked into it, and uncovered a bunch of harassment and abuse at the school, including against me. I switched schools.
My brother and I have that unlimited understanding of consent between us. We got there while finalizing our dad's estate. Things started rocky, but when we got consent figured out was it ever a relief! We can talk about anything now and there's no judgement and no pressure!
As a kid, the worst part was that it was always assumed by adults that if you don't cooperate, you're just "being bad" or purposefully trying to be difficult. I was just gaslit in the end, into thinking all these awful things about myself when in reality I WANTED to excel and do what was expected and just be loved in general. I would never have chosen to make adults angry, what kid would? And at 30, having just found out that I'm autistic, it's still so automatic to not even consider what I want in favor for whatever whim the people around me might have.
I had some sales jobs where sometimes I’d shake the persons hand, and sometimes not. But I still made good sales. I would gauge the situation. But it would become a problem when managers would make us grab the customer for the handshake, maybe before it was natural, that it would get in the way. I was more uncomfortable with it being fake, than the handshake itself.
Yeah, I have encountered consent more and I think it's really lovely to see things change this way. I do my best to include it as much as possible now asking things like: "Hey, are you okay if I vent to you?" or "Can I give you constructive criticism?" I see it really helps people feel safe, due to which they are able to listen better and receive what I am saing better too! I really like these developments, as it allows us to be more considerate and kind towards each other
I finally found a therapist who really creates the environment you described and it's amazing! I highly recommend finding someone who is trauma informed!
Thank you for these words! As an autistic grandma with 2 grandsons (5 yo/2 yo) who don't want to hug, but really want to give a high5 which I also love and prefer, I now have the words to explain to others what consent really means! I will give attention to this in my own environment!
It should be applied everywhere! I had been in situations where I got forced to endure something to please people.
I'm a huggy person, and also have a friend who isn't comfortable with physical contact. I respect that, so instead of offering them hugs I give _myself_ a hug and tell them "I'm psychically sending you hug vibes right now!"
I used to do a post-apoc LARP that had a 'opt-out any time, no questions asked, no consequences to your character' system in place, and it was so very nice to have for those that needed it, including myself when one of my rare triggers happened to surface.
Found you and your platform about a year ago...6 yr after diagnosed... hadn't looked at it and it answers much yet the societal expectations are the problems. I am 62 and single since 30, loner .... mother and sister still want to fix me...I am grateful to finally know... finding it extremely difficult to interact . Period. Love and Light. This opens a window to possibility ❤️
Lovely Paul. Great stuff. C-PTSD and PTSD here. I too find the difference between lack of consent and trauma informed practices stark. Startling.
It's cool. Trauma informed stuff. Without knowing that phrase "Trauma Informed Care" it's why I've billed my workshop facilitation and public speaking style as "Intimate Sharing". Not only the words, and the tones (like compassionate, honest, interested, vulnerable" but the physical environment.
Like setting up the workshop space, signs with symbols, providing snacks, time to say hello and catch up, actively trying to create safety and certainty, checking and and following up in various ways, acknowleging concerns and barriers etc
A lot to manage and it takes a couple of others in a team, but gosh, the safe-space and flow that results is breathtaking.
I love this idea. I know I'm always on high alert when leaving a social situation, especially around other women because it's always in my head: "they're not going to be expecting hugs are they? I hate freaking hugging but they always expect it!"
I felt this video down to my bones.
I've been in situations where choices are sprung on me with no warning and I can't freely say no -- I might be technically able to, but in reality there are heavy, heavy repercussions. (These are choices that should be completely optional, like "shall we rearrange your living room", noting that I live alone.)
I'm always punished. There might be shows of anger and resentment that feel frightening. There's etiquette pressure ("I made so much effort and you're ungrateful"). There's time pressure ("this has to be done _right now_ because there won't be another opportunity for a long time"). There's insistence that I justify my no. There's SO MUCH trying to talk my no into a yes. When all else fails, there may even be tears and "how can you be so ungrateful"/"why are you so mistrustful"/"you hate me". "No" is punished, always, and withholding "yes" is the only way I can have any control of a situation I desperately don't want.
I KNEW this felt (re)traumatising and I always felt that the issue centred on consent. This video has confirmed that I'm NOT just unreasonable, ungrateful and paranoid. It IS a trauma reaction. Oh my gods I feel seen for once.
What it sounds like you're saying is, if the environment is made healthy for humans in general, then people with autism cease to struggle like they do in "normal" environments. Damn, I swear I've made that exact point before. Good to know I'm not the only one with development issues who perceives this.
I swear it's the neurotypicals that have a developmental issue in this regard, not you.
Really enjoyed this, I have learnt a lot. My 15 year old daughter, couldn’t stay in school any longer, her mental health was rock bottom, it’s been 3 weeks not in school and she’s much better being away from an environment where she couldn’t function. I feel bad because I sometimes say ‘ give nan/uncle etc a hug when we go in’ and you can see she’s struggling, people expect it, I’m agreeing with all you said. I’m educating myself and have learnt so much following many ASD people.
i would like to see this in more work spaces
I have been on the recovery journey of discovering what being neuro diverse is to me and how I can exist in this world, for the last five or six years. Understanding the process and price of diagnosis, that is not an option available to me at the moment. That has brought me to the peer support community which has been life-changing for me. Understanding trauma informed care or trauma informed approach and consent are not just buzz words but are cultures actively being co-created and developed within this community. It is a community like all others with all of the diversity that that implies, but outside of it, I can find it very jarring being around people who do not at least try to treat others in a way that is not trauma aware. It seems cruel, although I know that it is not often meant that way, it is always nice to be back with people who understand.
2:38 - I was raised like this and I was always told I was 'quiet' or 'shy' about these things. I find physical contact with other people, even family, to feel.... weird. And wrong. I will maybe tolerate it with family if it's some I have not seen for a while and everyone is saying their goodbyes, but I don't actively seek it.
I think that has lead to how I feel as an adult today. In my mid 30's, I've never kissed anyone, I've not had sex. Ever. And some part of me is there perfectly happy about that decision. I think it's down to the fact that as an adult, I can mostly handle social interactions without physical contact. Handshakes are weird but I can handle that when it's required. When I was a kid I didn't have much of a choice and I think that it's left some kind of subconcious response that I can't get rid of.
I also think as I was bullied a lot, despite the fact that I 'get along well' and have always been 'a good team player', I've always got a nagging feeling that people are just pretending to be nice to my face and when I make physical contact, it just feels bad.
Yet, I go around hugging and cuddling animals like no tomorrow. Especially with horses. I guess it's because I don't have negative associations or know the animal is plotting against me. lol
Definitely agree. Another angle on these topics that comes to mind has to do with the tension between societal pressure to conform/mask for the comfort of others and the need to acknowledge one's own needs and comfort. Aquiescing to that pressure feels like a million tiny compromises of consent every day - saying yes to stuff that is uncomfortable, overstimulating, or otherwise difficult to manage, because of the expectations of the world around us, that don't have an easy opt-out. That violation of consent is itself a little traumatic and taken altogether over the span of someone's life it just becomes doubly important to be aware of both the start and end of that process (consent and trauma). I have met autistic people (maybe including myself, tho not diagnosed or anything) that really struggle with having a healthy concept of consent and autonomy, and I strongly suspect that social pressure to conform to neurotypical standards is a slow erosion of consent that can do a lot of damage to autistic people over the long term. All the more reason to keep having neurodiversity conversations as well as talking about consent and trauma in general.
I have sub to your channel to learn about my children and grandchildren but now I watch for me. I am blessed to have my children and grandchildren and a couple of very good friends and a boss who get it and have entered my autistic world.
This is how I try/want to treat everyone, but I've always felt like the odd one out for giving a no-questions-asked opt-out to my loved ones. I was right after all! Yay!
my definition of consent started with school trip forms too!
I have just become aware of my autism through talking with my diagnosed grandson. At 70 years old, it appears I am very high masking lol. I have listened to many videos on the subject now, enough to know in the first few minutes if the facilitator is trauma-informed. If so as with this broadcast, I feel as if I am with my own tribe. Thank you❤